And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is that triangle. You
know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the wranglescham Pars incident. It
doesn't involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over
our heads. It's so classic Glie Sorcier, really stunning into Cleary. He
turned over to my father and held his hand, and he looked in his
eyes and said, we're not alone. Welcome to podcast UFO for our live
show. We're live every Wednesday at eight pm Eastern Standard Time on podcastufo dot
com. During the show, feel free to participate live in our chat room,
and don't forget to like us on our very active Facebook page. Hello,
and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis, your hosts, and
we're live from a mountaintop in Maine. We have an interesting guest for you
this evening, Jeff Willis. He's not a relative. His last name has
an Ees and we're going to be talking about UFOs over Phoenix. Before our
guest, however, we have Alejandro Rojas coming up with the news in just
a minute. And I want to thank all the listeners who support the show.
If you can't support the show. We still appreciate you. And if
you want to listen to the entire show for free, all you have to
do is come to podcastufo dot com every Wednesday evening at eight to ten pm
Eastern Standard time, or and that's the same as New York City, or
you can go to PSN Radio at the same time. And we're also as
a podcast over at the Dark Matter Digital Network every Thursday at ten to midnight
Eastern Standard time. How you doing, ALAJARANDU? I am doing well.
How are you good? I've heard you've had some scorching heat out that way.
Yeah, you notice I haven't been mentioning the weather because I can't brag
about the weather anymore. Most of the year, I can brag and be
like, oh, hey, what's weather. There's no uh bummer, it's
perfect out here. Yeah. But no, it was perfect weather up until
a few days ago. And I think that Mother Nature or whoever is in
charge of the heat meter out there in the universe, like just switched it
on hardcore a couple of days ago, and we went from you know,
low nineties, which maybe hot in some areas, but it's not bad here.
It's like perfect up to one ten boom and we're now in the summer.
We're in the hotness, and it's it's like the difference is is there's
like no reprieve. You can't go anywhere but inside to the ac because you
walk into the shade and you know, it's just less hot, but it's
still one hundred and plus so it's still very hot. You're just out of
the sun, so you're going to survive for a few more minutes. But
and then a breeze is no reprieve at all. When that's what a shocking
thing when I moved out here and experienced it. When there's a breeze,
you're thinking, oh, this is going to be nice a breeze, and
most places a breeze cools you down. No, a breeze is just like
a hair dryer. Yeah, how to your furnace being blown on your face
out here? Yeah, so it is. Yep, we're into the summer
heat now, so we're living that that life and inside looking out our windows
that they're still looks pretty. But yeah, you don't want to be out
there for too long. Yeah, you know, it's it's it makes you
wonder what they did, you know, fifty years ago in that area,
you know, when there was nowhere conditioning. Yeah. Well, you know,
I've been down to Tucson and the area what is at the OK Corral,
right, yea. And they wore a lot of clothes back then,
the big jackets, the wool and I've been out there for like the anniversary
of the shootout and everything and where they do the reenactment. And I don't
know how those actors wear it. Yeah, so you've been out there,
let alone those people back then with no AC. I don't know how they
did it and that he'd I mean, it's amazing to me. Or you
know, there are lots of Native American tribes in this area. Oh yeah,
how they did it? You know? I think that they did stay
inside most and moved around mostly at night. But dad little earth huts out
here that they would build and your I think of that often. How the
heck did people survive before AC? Yeah, it must have been just getting
used to you know. I mean, they're just a way of life,
more or less like the Native Americans stuff like that. Well, I think
we're here to talk about UFOs. Oh okay, yeah, ok, yeah,
I can talk about that too. Okay, and is there anything going
on? No, yeah, there, Actually we do have some interesting stories.
So a couple of things here. First of all, you know one
of the videos, and it's a pretty video. I guess that's one of
the reasons I like talking about it. But there's a little bit of controversy.
Not everybody agrees about this video. But this isn't an Ohio video that
was taken recently. And you know, if you read the description, these
people sound very intelligent and their report is very well written, whereas many times
they're not. But this was May twenty seventh in the town of Rudolph,
and this couple at about nine thirty pm saw an object in the sky.
The wife said that her husband looked over his shoulder and said, what the
hell is that? And they said they saw directly over them what appeared to
be something very large, but they described it like this. They described it
as a bright, pulsating white light that changed to a faint, glowing red
light and then back to white, and that this light was inside of a
translucent square. So uh. The move On investigator, who was Donovan Lee,
did some investigation and closed it as an unknown although he described this as
the color being white but glowing to a reddish hue, and he said it
was it was like it was a burning flame. Well, a burning flame
inside of a translucent square to me sounds exactly like. Yeah, it sounds
like a Chinese lantern, but he felt that it wasn't. He felt it
was being it was moving too slow to be a kite or a balloon,
and that too fast to be a plane. He said, it was not
moving in the direction of the wind, but wind can change at different elevation.
So, uh, this person, the investigator and others feel pretty confidently
that it's not a Chinese lantern. And I think you said you watched the
video too, and you felt that it was too hard to tell. But
the description very much sounds like one. But it's a great I think it's
a neat video. I mean it's it's well done and the aesthetics of the
video are nice. Yeah. Now, did anyone come up with the theory
that it could be a red nosed reindeer? No, Rudolph, it's not
the season for that. But the town is Rudolph. Well, so sorry
I had to go there. I don't know much about the town of Rudolph,
Ohio. But I don't believe that the name has any you know,
history related to the red nosed Reindeer. In fact, I know people get
upset that we can be so skeptical on the show, but I am one
of those people who is very skeptical that Rudolph's Red Nose Reindeer exit said at
all. Well, there's no hard evidence. No, I think that's total
mythology. I just don't think that he is real. Yeah, well,
you know, I'm gonna get a lot of hate mail about this. Yeah
you are. I don't believe in Santa Claus. Never we did either.
How about that? Wow Ooo, there's dropped a bomb. Yeah. So
there's another video though that or photos that are a little more interesting. These
are from Grass Grass Valley, California, around the same time, also late
May, and this was also later in the day although you can tell it
there is daylight out. The person said it was seven thirty pm. This
was May twenty eighth, so just a couple of days after the other video.
And they said they saw this object in the sky, so they took
some pictures of it. Actually, this person, also, you know,
is very well written. They seem very intelligent. This person told their roommate,
Hey, look at that thing in the sky. And it was a
roommate who went and grabbed a camera and took some pictures. And they took
these pictures and they blew them up, and they just couldn't tell what they
were, you know. They they talked about how in three of the pictures
they got fuzzy objects, and I feel that those are probably due to the
camera being very out of focus. However, two of the pictures are very
in focus, but the object in each of the images is completely different.
One of them, yeah, is an oblong, kind of a taller kind
of thing, almost like a lipstick bottle flying in the air or something like
that. And then the other one, I don't even know how to describe
this, some kind of lampshade. So they fell a description. Yeah,
I just came up with that one. And finally I came up with a
description kind of a lampshade like the ones with the little balls hanging from the
bottom light a little poofy kind of fabric like pomp palm little things, and
so, but yeah, they feel that this object changed shapes while it was
flying along in the sky. There so some interesting photos. Yeah, you
know, that's that is really really strange, but also not like something we
haven't heard before, you know, right, not unprecedented. Yep. I'm
saying that they totally shift. I don't want to say shape shift, but
they do change like a formation and feed in and out and all that stuff,
you know. Yeah, So they said that the light, the intensity
of the light, you know, increased, and they felt it was reflecting
light, so the reflectivity increased and decreased. So I guess that would be
the possibility of balloons tumbling in the sky and then back, you know.
I think an amazing video, a great video which we know was balloons actually
was one posted by one of Jimei Mussan's guys. So this is what happened.
This is how it happened with me. I might have told you this
story, I don't know, has to do with Ruben eerie Arte, who's
a move on investigator in California who also does work in Mexico. But they
went out with himI and their crew and they in Mexico City and they were
way far away, and they launched a set of balloons and they were going
to videotape them from this rooftop. Well, one of the guys sees the
balloons, he's like, oh my gosh. He starts filming it, and
then they told him those aren't that's not a UFO. Those are balloons.
We launched those so we can film them to see what they look like,
so we can match them up against some of the other videos. This is
where a TV show do you have like the pet squirrel or something. No,
I'm hearing like little feet. Oh sorry, I it might be the
table here. It could yeah, okay. So this guy posted the video
as a shape changing UFO, even though they had told him it was a
balloon, and so it went viral, of course. And the video,
I mean, really looks like a solid object changing shape. It's pretty weird.
It's really the video is great. It was really weird. So I
saw the video and because it was in Mexico, I immediately got a hold
of Reuben and I said, hey, have you seen this yet? And
he laughed. He called me and he said, oh my gosh. He's
like, I can't believe that they posted this. He's like, these are
the balloons we launched when we were in Mexico City. And he knows that,
why is he posting this? So and to Hime's defense, it wasn't
Hime who posted it. It was one of the guys that works with him.
But yeah, so Llun's can look kind of weird, although I'm not
sure that's what this is, because this does appear to be one solid object,
doesn't appear to be multiple, But I don't know, weird, Doug
Duck, Well, I think it's time to call it a night. Feed
your squirrel and we'll okay, yeah, talk to you next week, my
invisible squirrel in here. Yeah, all right, all right, yep,
you have a great week and we will talk to you later. All right,
thanks a lot. So a little bit about our guest tonight. Jeff
Willis has been researching UFOs and related phenomena for over twenty five years. His
initial interests in aliens didn't start with a simple UFO sighting. He's been having
sightings of UFOs and other odd experiences since nineteen seventy five. In nineteen eighty
seven, at the age of seventeen, he moved to Phoenix from Seattle with
his family. Skywashing became his full time activity after getting his video camera in
nineteen ninety five. He's been able to get over two hundred and fifty hours
solid UFO video. Jeff Willis was one of the co creators of the UFO
Trip. It became the History Channels UFO Hunter's TV show. His footage has
been unfeatured in many programs, including History Channels, Ancient Aliens, Disney's Race
to Which Mountain, and Dana Akroyd Unplugged on UFOs and many more. All
right, so hanging for the quick music break, We'll be right back with
Jeff Willis. Jeff will Let's tell a ya, Hey, how you doing.
That's a great music intro. I thought I was stuck inside of a
pink Floyd you or something that's by Kerrie Lloyd Whitehouse. He's a fan of
the show. He's in Ireland, produces movies for music for movies and uh,
and he did a bunch of music for us. So yeah, that
was great. Yeah. Thanks. Hey, well, welcome to the show.
First of all, and we are not related, by the way,
or for some reason, your relatives decided to put an E in your last
name, right? Yeah? Where'd they go wrong? Right? Well?
Yeah, I know every time someone asked me, you know, what's your
name? You know? And I tell him and there they try to,
you know, they have to write it down for some reason, they always
spell it with an I S instead of a yeah, it happens. Yeah.
So first of all, you are in Phoenix, and I believe I
saw you a couple of years ago out there at the conference at the UFO
Congress. But how did you, uh first get involved in the UFO topic?
To begin with? What was your fast fascination? Well, that happened
from some experiences that I had and when I was about five years old in
nineteen seventy five, will you know, start way at the very beginning,
I guess, And what happened was is I was lying in bed about where
to go to sleep, and I was the lights were turned off and the
door was cracked open just a hair And as I was lying there, about
maybe five minutes later, after I was lying there, all of a sudden
I felt something grab my hand, And all of a sudden something was holding
my hand. Now it felt like a regular person's hand as far as I
remember. And I wasn't immediately scared or startled because I thought maybe for I
just you know, when you're a kid, you know, and when you're
an adult, you try to explain it away at first to try to come
up with an explanation what is this. So the first thought I had was
my mom come in the room when I had my eyes closed and was holding
my hand for some reason, like lying there with me. And then right
after that immediate thought, I saw her walk by the door on the outside
of the door on the other side in the other room, walking around.
And so once I saw that, that's when I got scared, and I
gathered enough courage to as fast as I could, reach over and turn on
the lamp that was on the right hand side of the bed, and so
I did that as soon as I did, and the light flood of the
room, the pressure released off my hand and there was nothing there at all,
absolutely nothing. So at the very young age of like five or six
years old, I realized that there was something else besides the physical realm that
we're all hereing. You know, obviously, there was something there. Something
was holding my hand, and they're not there when the lights turned on,
So this is some thing that is interfering into our world that we can't see
obviously. So I was brought into it that, you know, with questions
at a very young age, and how that progressed was when I went to
kindergarten, they decided to take the group. The very first day of kindergarten,
they took a group of us to the the elementary school library, which
was a couple of rooms down the hall, and they were, you know,
showing us all these books and you know, now you're in this elementary
school. You can come here and check out books any day of the week
and take them home. And they were like, okay, so why a
don't you guys all spread out and grab some books so you can we can
check them out. And you know, you got to remember this was grade
kindergarten through sixth grade, I believe, and so they had older kids,
you know, sixth grader books and you know, bigger words and stuff like
that. So I found I was looking through the entire library out of the
kindergartener and I come across a section of books that I just grabbed off the
shelves. I was like, I got to know about this, I mean,
because of the incident that happened before. I came to the counter and
I had a book called Ufo Photographs and it had the different saucer shapes that
people have saw and another book was that I was trying to check out at
the time was a man was called Beyond Earth Man's Contact with UFOs, and
it had some abduction cases in there. I think one of the first,
one of the very first abduction cases was in the book was the Travis Walton
case. That came later, but also was featured in that book was a
Betty and Barney Hill case, which came, you know, ten or twelve
years prior to the Travis Walton thing. And so I also had a big
Foot book I was trying to check out. And so when I brought these
books to the thing, they looked at me and they're like, you can't
read these You're barely learning to read and these are like six great books.
What are you trying to do? Why are you interested in this stuff?
And why are you trying to read this? And basically I I just told
her I wanted I wanted these books, you know, I want to check
these books out. So I brought them home and my my parents were puzzled
too. They were like, why do you want to know what this is?
And I that was one of the first times I was able to ask
the question I was. I was like, well, well, what is
I want to know what a UFO is, and I want to know what's
inside of a UFO, and you know, please answer that question. And
my mom was like, well, I don't know, and maybe a robot,
I guess, And that didn't really satisfy me. So I was like,
and I want to know what was in my room, you know,
you know, if you know, not too long ago, a few months
ago, that was trying that was holding my hand, and I asked her
that. The next morning, I asked her what that was when when the
incident happened as well, and she didn't have an answer for me. She
said that was probably a guardian angel or that was her, That's what she
said. So that didn't really satisfy me either. So I was asking again
later and I had these books and I was trying to figure all this stuff
out, so that that kind of a long answer to your question. But
that's basically how it started. Well that's probably a record for someone starting that
young. Looking at UFO books, I've never heard anyone that young. That's
amazing. Well, what was weird is is later on in life, when
the book I think it was like, you know, some of the very
first material to touch on some of the abduction cases and some of the commonalities
among them was that book called Missing Time by Bud Hopkins, which came out
around nineteen eighty and I bought the book and I looked at it and read
it, and I was amazed to see that there was a lot of people
in that book that claimed do we have abduction experiences? Where they all were
saying the same thing that was start out when they were like five or six
years old, and it was like a common thread among a lot of them.
And I remember reading some of Whitley Strieber's books later too, that he
said that he believed that his started around when he was like five or six
years old. And so I was thinking, is this a common thread where
the people that are being contact or being contacted at that young of an age
and my part of this group of people? And you know, all these
questions led me to basically buy almost every single UFO book on the subject I
can find or ever get my hands on. And so I have this huge
library of UFO books and I've read probably like ninety percent of them. And
you know, my library hasn't gotten much bigger since nineteen ninety five. When
I got my first video camera to try to videotape these things because all out
of all these books that I read and all of the UFO cases that I
ever read about, it never really told me the truth. Are they here?
You know? Can I see it for myself. We're never going to
believe a book or someone's story unless we see it ourself, right, So
that was my next mission was to videotape them, get them on tape to
prove it to myself. I mean, there, I already knew because of
the contacts from you know, the different incidences that I had, that there
was something that was trying to contact me or you know, I've been physically
touched by them, so to speak, and I know that there was something
there. So you know, whether it was a ghost, an alien,
whatever it was, you know, I want to know. So it just
basically drove me to the UFO subject because later on, when I was about
seven years old, I saw a UFO which was like a triangle shaped UFO
over the apartment complex that I lived at when I was seven, and this
was in broad daylight, and there was three of them and I remember they
were small, they weren't like what you you know, hear these reports of
these huge triangles. These were like smaller triangles. There was three of them,
and instead of a flying point like the point would fly in that direction.
First, it was flying with the V like shape back. It looked
like a backwards flying you know what you would think would be flying this way,
you know, with the point in the front, It wouldn't. It
wasn't flying that way. It's pointing flying with the V in the front.
And so that's what startled me. At first I thought I was an airplane.
And then when the three of them got closer, I was like,
that's not an airplane. That's from that book that I had, and that's
one of those UFOs. And so I, you know, it was trying
to relate the the experience in the bedroom with the UFOs that I saw,
to try to put those together along with the books of telling people that you
know in the book explaining that people have been contacted by these UFOs and the
beans close encounters of the third kind. I'd already learned that phrase by the
time I was seven, which is the description of a UFO in close proximity
to a person within like fifty yards or something like that. And you know,
and they where they see beans outside the craft, which you know,
so I was always familiar with the lingo and all this stuff at this young
age. And also I saw what I can only describe as as a low
UFO over some houses when I was ten years old. And this ufo looked
like a wat like you know, the old New York City water towers.
They looked like kind of cone shaped and around with like a round oval like
you know, like oval or round shaped like a UFO on the bottom,
but with a slight cone on the top. And this was just kind of
wobbling over a house. I come up on it over a hill with my
bike and saw it hovering over house, rocking back and forth, and I
watched it in amazement for like what seemed like a while, but it was
only like probably like two minutes, and then it just started taking off over
some trees nearby, Like it started flying in a direction where it went over
a green belt where there were some trees, and I lost it because you
know, the trees eventually will cut you know, you can't see it.
So I went down this trail looking for it, and this is when I
had my first missing time experience is after I went down that trail looking for
this thing, I don't remember anything until like about seven thirty. This happened
about maybe three in the afternoon, and I don't remember anything until probably like
seven at the next night. I remember I was getting dark and I couldn't
find my bike. Like all of a sudden, I was on a trail
and I couldn't find my bike and it was dark, and then I finally
found it and I started writing home. And when I got home, my
parents, I remember, were mad because I should have been home a long
time ago and I couldn't remember. I didn't really you know, look at
it. You know, before missing time was in the UFO books and all
that stuff, you didn't really hear about it other than the Barney and Betty
hillcase and maybe the traps Walten case. But I wasn't really as much familiar
with those cases to really know what missing time was. And I didn't really
feel like, you know, I knew that there was some time past and
it was darker, and I found my back beat. When you're a kid,
you you don't really think about it that too much. I did a
little bit, But then later on, after I learned it was part of
the UFA phenomenon. That's when I really started focus on that was did I
have missing time? And it was so finally, it was so finally cut
into you know, the regular time that you barely you know, you barely
miss it. You know, maybe maybe it was only maybe an hour and
a half or maybe two hours, you know, I don't know, but
I apparently I was late getting home and my parents weren't too happy about it.
Yeah, A lot of people talk about it being a retrospective that they
look back and it takes a little bit of looking back to realize that there
was actually missing time. That's what That's what I hear a lot on the
those cases. So do you think the incident you had in the bedroom is
what started your fascination with why you walked through the library and wrap those books,
or do you think you would have anyway it was? I think it
was, But it's hard to tell if I would have anyways because later on
down the road I had a couple more bedroom experiences in the future, but
I was never able to actually see the face of what it was until just
even like most recently I think about I would say it was like about twenty
and twelve or twenty and thirteen, I was finally able to look see the
glimpse of the face of what this thing was. And I don't know if
it was the same thing that had come into the bedroom previous times, because
I can count them on one hand. I probably had like five bedroom experiences
that I can remember that I can know that I was like conscious when it
happened, type of thing, you know, where I can, you know,
relate to it. Now, who's to say that when they're when you're
at your most deepest sleep in the middle of the night, that they don't
come and do something. You know, I don't. I don't know if
that happened, but I do remember the times that did happen and what happened.
So what I saw before twenty twelve or twenty thirteen was always a dark
figure where you can't see what it is for a split second before you like
go into a missing time experience and then wake up and nothing's there, or
wake up in the morning and then slightly remember, oh, right before I
went to sleep, I remember seeing like some beans standing at the foot of
the bed. One time I saw two of them standing at the foot of
the bed, but they don't. But to fast forward to the twenty twelve
twenty thirteen incident, was in the middle of the day, like twelve in
the afternoon. I was feeling kind of tired, so I laid down for
like a short nap, and all of a sudden, I felt like what
you know when you're lying on your stomach, like if like I what you
would feel if like like a person put both of their hands on your back
and start pushing and start pushing you onto the bed, like pushing with force
where you can feel somebody pushing down on your back. And I like that
kind of like woke me up out of the sleep. But I was like
paralyzed. I couldn't move at all, and I can feel this pressure pushing
me down further into the bed. And I was like, well, I
can't move, I can feel somebody pushing on my back. I don't know
what this is, uh, And then I I thought that for just a
second, and then all of a sudden, I related it back to all
these other experiences, and then I thought to myself, Okay, I know
exactly what this is. And so I was able to break free of the
paralysis and get my eyes wide open during the same second that I felt being
pushing on my back and I was able to flip around on my back to
see the face of this thing for the first time. It looked like exactly
what they always describe in these books it was, but to see it,
you could see the texture. It was like a like gray. The skin
was gray like they always say the skin though, and the face you can
see was like the texture was like moisture. It had like moisture. The
skin was like moist like maybe a frog, like the texture of a frog.
And you can see like veins under the skin, like like black or
like you know, gray like type of like you know, a compression of
what were like some type of like vein. I don't know if they were
veins or not, but there was like a pattern of something under the skin
of like a tight skin over like veins that are popping out. And it
had the gray that it had. The eyes were like just one black pupil
and they weren't like oversized like a lot of they described it was. It
was like bigger than normal, but it wasn't like huge like how they describe
it. And the thing is is I only saw it for like less than
even a second. It only let I was only able to see it for
like one second, and as soon as I blinked and opened my eyes back
up, as quick as a blink, it was gone. And so it
was over my bed. When I rolled over my back, I saw it
right its face right there, and then I didn't see the rest of its
body, it just maybe the shoulders of it. And then within one blink
it was gone. And so you know, that was the only time I've
ever seen what they look like. And I don't know if those that was
the same thing that you know has been coming around all these years. And
I don't even know if you can relate these bedroom beings or these whatever they
are. I don't even know if you can relate them to aerial phenomenon because
a lot of times when people see this aspect of the UFO experience or the
abduction experience, so to speak, when they have the bedroom visitation of an
alien, most of those experience, no one ever sees UFO with those experiences,
you know. I mean, there's other experiences where you see the UFO
with the bean, like the Betting and Barney Hill case or the trous Walton
case. Those are two of you know, when I look at the UFO
abduction phenomenon, I put them in those two different categories. There's the cases
where you see the UFO with the bean, and then there's the cases where
they never see the UFO, where they only see the bean in the room.
Or then there's a little of both when you see the bean and you're
being levitated out of a bean into a UFO. There's those that category as
well, and that way you finally see both, but it starts off in
the room and then you're levitated into a UFO and then you see the UFO
after you see the bean. So there's a couple of different categories there that
I like to look at when it comes to the actual entities or et or
whatever you want to call it. Now, we have a regression therapist in
the chat room, so she probably would want me to ask this question,
have you ever thought of having regression hypnotherapy? Well, yeah, back in
like nineteen ninety two, I believe it was nineteen ninety two, I seen
on some UFO documentaries I think like Sightings, a couple of different TV shows
of maybe yeah, it was Sightings, And I also saw her on I
believe, like Rala Rivera or whatever was the famous hypnotherapist Yvonne Smith from California.
So around the early nineties, I saw her talking about this sort of
stuff and I was like thinking, Wow, you know, she's hypnotizing these
people, just like Bud Hopkins. She's friends with Bud Hopkins. She obviously
knows what she's doing. So I contacted her about it, and then she
referred me to a therapist in the Phoenix area that works with regression with abducties
and stuff. And I never went further than that with contacting another person about
it and going under hypnosis because I bought this book by in like it was
like a ninety three maybe a year later after I, you know, started
looking into this hypnosis thing. I bought a book by It was Edith.
I can't I can't really recall an it. I can't remember right off hand,
but it was a book about self hypnosis. They like they taught you
how to do it yourself, like to hypnotize yourself and look for memories.
And so I did it. I did it, and I tried to recall
one incident and I started to see in my mind, in my subconscious mind
started to show me memories about it that I couldn't remember before I started the
hypnosis process. And right when I started getting the information that I couldn't remember
consciously, I quit doing it because I started getting scared and I didn't want
to. I didn't want to continue down that path. You know. It
was like, wait a minute, you know, why can't I remember this
before I go into hypnosis? I'm and so that part of it kind of
freaked me out and I pretty much stopped. So I didn't. I didn't
pursue it with anybody else or try any more self hypnosis or anything like that.
So I mean I would I'm open to it now maybe now, but
at the time I wasn't. I'm not sure if I if something like that
happened to me, if I'd really want to explore it. I know this
has come up on the show before, but I asked I asked Travis Walton
the same question basically, and he said he did it once and he'll never
do it again. He doesn't want to know anymore, you know, basically,
so right, And that was my experience with it, because once your
brain is starting to show you memories that you couldn't remember, until you got
into this trans state, you might not want to continue down that road.
I mean once you open the door. Now once you know, if I
if I was to go under hypnosis and look at a different experience and it
started turning out the same way, then I might want to just stop the
session too, you know. But it's I don't know, it's weird.
It's weird for your subconscious, it's the same thing, and you know it's
used in the court of law. You know, it's you know, you
you know, some people do something bad and a car speeds down the street
and you're the only one there to stand on the sidewalk. So they take
you and the police do a interview with you about it, and then they
come to the clusion that maybe he might remember the license plate under hypnosis.
So you go under hypnosis, and all of a sudden, you can remember
that license plate just like you were standing there staring right at it. I
mean that kind of kind of freaks you out. After that, you know,
you're like, Wow, your subconscious is taken in a heck of a
lot more than you are really aware of, and this can be accessed.
Yeah, I've said that, you know, you kind of put everything in
little file boxes, you know, little moments and things like that which can
be accessed, which is I don't know if it can be accessed through hypnotherapy,
but it's still that your your brain really does capture a lot of things.
Now, I see that you moved to Phoenix in nineteen ninety five,
and the first thing I think I moved in nineteen eighty seven. Oh yeah,
nineteen ninety five. I got my video camera. Ah okay, I
was going to ask you if you're there for nineteen ninety seven, March thirteenth,
you know what I'm talking about. But when you moved there, did
you right away get into what was going on in that area? When we
moved here in nineteen eighty seven, it was a weird transition because what happened
was is I I was into UFOs until about a year before that. I
was into UFOs until I was about sixteen years old, and I was,
you know, I had, you know, about all the experiences and all
that, and all the books and stuff like that. I read them and
I was really into the subject. And for some reason, when I turned
sixteen, I was basically, you know, been in high school maybe a
year or so and so I was kind of like in the threshold of going
through high school and stuff like that. And then when I turned seventeen,
my parents decided that we're gonna leave Seattle and move them to Phoenix, and
so I started a new high school when we moved out here in eighty seven,
and finished high school in eighty eight. And then I, you know,
so this is probably about the third year that I was kind of not
pursuing or being interested in the UFO stuff. And then in about nineteen I
think it was about nineteen ninety was when I got back into it because I
had an experience here in Phoenix and another bedroom one and I it related me
back to the Seattle experiences and all that, and I thought to myself,
you know, they followed me here, like how did they know? You
know, and like all this stuff was flooding my brain, you know,
it was all coming back. And so then in nineteen ninety I was going
through a book you know, a bookstore, and I saw the Communion book
on the shelf and I never read it before, and I'd never even seen
it before. It didn't know anything about it, and it had already been
out like about maybe you know, four years or something like that by you
know in nineteen ninety. When I, you know, bought it, I
guess I apparently had already been out for like five or six years. I
don't know, but I bought it and went home and I and I when
I saw the cover, of course, I saw that, I was like,
yeah, I need to get this. This is this, there's this
is connected to me somehow. And I read it and it related me back
to when I was a kid some of the experiences he had. It brought
me back into it kind of basically, it did. It really did bring
me back into it. So then that's when I followed up and buying the
the Bud Hopkins book Missing Time, and then I bought uh Intruders, bought
Hopkins Intruders, and then I started buying a bunch of UFO objuction literature,
like a Secret Life from David Jacobs and a couple more Willie Streeber books Transformation
and stuff, just trying to get the feel because now I was starting to
connect and trying, and I was connecting myself with some of these other people
that had the experience from a young age. And I bought the Ed Walters
book golf BER's floor to Sightings. Now this is what kind of turned me
into the skywatcher. Here is I saw a sightings television show, Broadcast Sightings.
Remember that old show Sightings. Oh yeah, of course. Now they
had a Sightings episode and this was about in nineteen ninety three, I believe,
nineteen ninety three, nineteen ninety four, and it was about a guy
that can video tip at UFO anytime of the day, don't it doesn't matter.
He can go outside in his backyard, set it the video camera.
Boom, he gets the UFO on video. Doesn't matter what time of day.
As long as it's day, there's daylight outside, he's able to get
it on video. And so I was like, this is what I've been
waiting my whole life to do, to get it on video. I saw
the UFOs before, and now it's you know, I've read all these books.
I have a huge UFO library, you know, and now it's time
to get the evidence. I want to know how to do this. And
so basically this guy was John bro Wilke. Okay, and you probably have
heard of him. He's in UFO literature, John bro Wilkey. He was
able to videotape this UFO anytime of the day. So Sightings you know who
he is. Yeah, so he set up his video camera. Sightings set
up their television broadcast video you know cameras, film cameras, and they were
able to get UFOs on tape right alongside the right alongside this guy on his
cameras as well. And so this was proven right there, you know that
this guy can do it. And uh so he had a technique and the
technique was described and how is how what he did was is he took the
side of his house and he blocked the sun out out so you can't see
the sun, and then the glowing remainder of the sun. You know.
He he took his camera and he zoomed into this part of the sky where
you can see like way up there, and you can see like bugs shooting
by. You can see like cotton balls cruising across the sky. But then
way way up there passed all the cotton balls, passed all the bugs.
You would see an object come in to frame, stop, slowly, start
to move and then shoot away real fast. And he would get like a
bunch of these and in different they would come in different speeds different altitudes,
and they would do different things. Some of them were cigar shapes, some
of them were around, some of them were hockey puck looking, some of
them were cylinders. You know, any category of the UFO. If you
look at UFOs, they're described in a million different shapes. He got every
million shape you can think of, and so and so that was it.
I went out and bought my video camera and I set it up and I
tried to do the same thing. And I did a little bit of research
as well, which I saw on some of the other siding shows about these
nineteen ninety solar eclips in Mexico City, where at the top in the height
of the eclipse, when the entire disc of the sun was blocked that people
started videotaping UFOs all over the place. And I thought, it's the same
concept. You block the sun out. You can see these things way way
up there. It happens in the eclipse. It happens when you block it
away with your house. Same concepts. So I did it. I got
video of a UFO and I contacted moufon. This was back in nineteen ninety
seven when I was able to get a bunch of UFOs on video. And
then in nineteen ninety seven, I had I got this one double dome looking
UFO, like what I describe as a cigar shape with two domes on top
instead of one, and so I thought, this video is really interesting.
And it was a daylight video as well, and it streaks across the camera
really really fast. So I called Channel ten Fox News and they looked at
the video and they're like, oh, yeah, we got to run this.
So they showed the video. But before they showed the video, I
thought, well, if they're going to do it on Fox ten tonight then
and I've already had mof on over there a week before that. And they
took the video and took a siding report for me and took a copy of
the video. So I figure, well, I'm I had this list of
ufologists in this book that came out that was published back then, and I
I were familiar with Linda Moulton House reports on Dreamland with Art Bell on Sunday,
so I saw I had her number in that book, and I figured,
I'm just gonna call her and tell her that tonight. You know,
if you you know, want the broadcast, I'll send it to you.
But tonight on Fox, We're gonna have a low. They're going to have
a local news story about some footage I shot, and so I thought I'd
just call her and tell her and if she wants the tape, I'll send
it to her. Instead, she did a whole she did a whole audio
interview with me about the footage and about what was going to show later on
Fox. And she took the interview and late and later that night she went
on art Bell at eight o'clock and broadcast the interview with me and her on
Dreamland an hour before or two hours before the actual newscast. So she kind
of scooped Fox ten and Phoenix by putting it on Dreamland with So I was
like, Wow, this is cool. I'm on art Bell, but I'm
on via interview with Lindham on House. I'm not actually live on the Art
Bell show. I'm live or I'm not even live. I'm on an interview,
a pre recorded interview with Linda on Dreamland. So I thought that was
kind of cool to get on art Bell via an interview with Linda, you
know, on an audio tape. That was kind of a cool way to
break through into the thing with radio so you know, I was starting to
do radio shows after that, but that was the first time I ever was
introduced to being on a UFO radio show. So later on that night they
put the video on ten and they showed it, and people earlier in the
night they heard it on art Bell and they heard me on with Linda.
And so the next day I got mailed from all over the world, like
like within the next week. I not the next day, but within a
couple of days, I was getting letters from everywhere, like a like a
New Zealand and all sorts of places. And then everybody in Phoenix that saw
it on the Fox, the Double Dome video, they were calling me and
contrying to contact me. So I went and spoke for the Art Belt chat
club that year, and it just snowballed after that, and that's how I
really started getting into the video of this, you know, and just capturing
more video and more video and more video. And then what was kind of
unique was that I decided not to do this Sun technique thing anymore because people
that were doing it at the time, what with you know, not only
not just me, but during like pre nineteen ninety eight, like I would
say, between nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety eight, there was the only
people that were videotaping UFOs and the only people that were doing the sun technique
as well were you know, we can count them on just you know,
maybe you know, one hand. Even it was like me, it was
Tim Edwards, jose Escamillius, Tom King, and John bro and that was
it. Five. There's maybe a couple more. There was a couple other
skywatchers that I knew at the time that were just starting to get into it.
Oh yeah, and you had Thomson Borne from from Golf Breeze, Florida,
and a couple of the Golf Briese people, you know, because that
flap went on for like five or six years, and there were you know,
there's a lot of skywatchers that came out of it, like Bruce Morrison
and Ed Walters and a few other famous ones, but there wasn't very many
of us back in you know, like ninety three to ninety eight that were
taping UFOs. You can count them on, you know, two hands basically.
And so there were there the Daylight citing people like me and jose As
Kamilius and Tim Edwards and Tom King and John Bro, the people that did
a lot of the solar technique. We were getting attacked by all these debunkers
that were saying, oh, those are just cotton balls or insects, and
and John Bro and us we would always say, you know, you can
tell the difference between the cotton and the insects the UFOs. You know,
you can tell the difference. But you know, they don't want to ever
listen to it. They attacked his rods footage stuff he you know, you
know, saying all the rods are just insects and all that stuff like that.
So I got kind of fed up with it. So around i'd say
around nineteen ninety around nineteen ninety eight, I decided to change my tactics on
videotap and UFOs. I decided that I'm not going to do any solar footage
anymore. I'm not going to film UFOs using the solar technique, or I'm
not gonna and I'm not gonna film anymore rods or any of that stuff anymore
if I'm using that technique. And so I changed my technique, which was
to turn my back on the sun, to film everything away from the sun
totally back against the sun. And I was still able to get the rod
cylinder UFOs, the hockey puck UFOs that you dis shape UFOs. I was
still able to get all the same stuff, but the footage got better.
Turning your back on the sun and videotaping them this way I started my footage
started to improve, and I was starting to get better footage, like you
know, more structured videos, like where you can see structure and stuff like
that, where before it was just like a fuzzy ball or whatever. Now
you can see like the actual roundness or the structure or the oval shape of
the video. And so there was an improvement in video. Basically, h
can you explain before we move on exactly how you were doing the solar blockout?
Okay? What you do is is you okay, you know when you're
out out in your patio in the backyard, you have like that overhang above
you. You can do it like that. You can take your position of
your camera and block the entire sun out until you just get the corona,
the corona of the sun, the shine like basically the bright part of it,
not the center part. You want to completely block the sun out till
you just get that glow. You know that glow overhang, You know of
it, and you want to either do that behind your house, like depending
on what position the sun is is during the day, like at high noon,
the ideal position would be like the overhang of a patio to where you
get that bright part of the sun. And and if it's later in the
day, like three o'clock to five o'clock, you'd want to use the side
of your house where you can see like the you know, the like the
left part of the sun coming out, not the disc part, of course,
but just the glow of it. And during like the early hours of
the day, a good thing would be like a fence to block out that
part, the disk part, and get the shiny part so you can film
at the top of the corona part. Now. Also another thing is is
you always want to use UV protective sunglasses when you do it. You never
want to point the lens of your camera directly at the sun, like you
never want to have the year at the disk of the sun exposing into the
camera lens. Okay, so what you want to do is you want to
completely block the sun before you even set your camera up, and so when
you do get the the the bright part of the sun coming out of the
area that's blocked off, like the shiny part. You'll want to zoom in
with your camera into that krona part and not even completely in the krona a
little bit to the left or the right of it, depending on you know,
where you're at, just a way of like you know, you're just
on the outer edges of the shiny part, you know, zoom into that
and you'll start seeing. What you'll see first off is you're going to see
like bugs, cotton stuff way up there, and stuff that you can be
confused thinking that that's a UFO, but watch and look because if they it
may very well be UFO. But but look at the difference. Make sure
that you see bugs, and make sure that you see spiderwebs, make sure
that you see cotton. Make sure that you can identify all the known stuff.
And then that way, when you see the stuff that's higher up there,
then you'll see the real thing and you'll get it on video and you'll
be able to roll it back on your computer or your TV and say,
look, you know all this stuff is this identified stuff, identifiable stuff,
But look at this. No one can tell me that this is this other
stuff because it's obviously not. And then you'll be able to you know,
videotape a UFO. And like I said, I you know, eventually I
got away from that way to do it, but that's always a great way
to start. And that's what I was getting at before. If you want
to start out, videotape and that's a great way to start. And then
once you can identify everything like that, once you turn your back on the
sun and look up at the sky, you'll know exactly what you're looking for.
You'll and you'll know exactly what to look for, and when you see
it, you'll know what you're looking at. And also another thing is is
you use your the sky as like a canvas like a painter would use.
And that's how we recognize the UFO is if like in Arizona, we always
have a perfectly blue sky with no clouds. Ever, and when you do
see clouds, they're really high or they're blanketing in the entire sky because it's
going to rain. So most of the time we have nothing. It's just
a big blue sky and you focus your eyes in on this big blue canvas
and then just kind of just let your eyes just look at it, and
then after about five minutes, your eyes are adjusted into it, so that
any thing that disturbs the canvas, like an airplane or a balloon or UFO
or anything up there, is gonna disturb that and you're gonna see it right
away. It's gonna you know, your eyes will will catch it because it's
it's messing up your perfect blue canvas, you know, so your eyes will
be able to adjust and say, hey, there's something and then and grab
your camera. Now, this is how I do it. I I always
have binoculars like a arrow. I'm gonna ask you that. Yeah, And
this is and the reason for this is is because number one, I got
like ten by fifty binoculars. They're not that they don't cost that much and
they're pretty powerful. They're not the you know, most powerful or anything.
But you don't need that. You just need what's affordable. And I would
say ten by fifties don't go any lower than that. But uh, it's
a good, you know, good binocular, good power. And what I
do is if I see something that I want to see what it is,
I'll look through the binoculars first and if I can just if I can see,
oh that's a plane. That's how I got to off forget it,
you know. But if I look through the binoculars and I see, okay,
that's something that I can't explain, then that's when I turn the camera
on. That way, you're not sitting there with your camera on wasting your
battery. So then when the UFO shows up and you press record, oh
the battery is dead, you know. So what you want to do is
use your binoculars until you see a UFO and then once you do, turn
your camera on and zoom into it and start recording it. And I also
have lenses that I use that are different power, like a five fifth.
I have a what they call a five X lens made by made by Kut.
It's called a Cut five X, and it puts like fifty power on
your video camera. So there is there a lot of time in the field
that's just plane boring, just like looking around. And I mean you have
to have a lot of patience for what you're doing. Oh yeah, yeah,
I mean, well, the thing is about daylight video of UFOs is
like, you know, it's gonna happen, you know, if you sit
there for like two or three hours, you know you're bound to see something.
I mean there's been times where we've watched for like three or four hours
and don't see anything, not even a balloon or anything like that, and
so we just you know, chalk it up nothing that day. So try
it again. And so what you want to generally try to do is put
in hours. And that's how I've always looked at it, is you try
to put in maybe like twenty hours a week, and then you're bound to
catch something. Now in the summertime, like how it is in Phoenix,
Like like for the last couple of days, we've hit like one sixteen.
Like Saturday it was like one hundred and sixteen. We've had like one fifteen,
one thirteen. It's been in the one twelve through one sixteen the last
week. And so forget forget UFOs during the day. I mean, that's
not gonna happen. And so I turned to nighttime skywatching during this time of
year. And if you look at all my footage, I mean, if
you go to my website's Ufosorphoenix dot com, you can download the video there
on a video page, or there's a button on there where you can just
simply go to my YouTube channel and then check all my YouTube videos and then
look at my catalog of footage, and you'll see that I have some pretty
great nighttime footage too, And so you know, nighttime footage it's few and
far between, though. I tell you I've been able to videotape some really
good smoking gun nighttime videos, but I probably only have maybe like five of
them, because you know, you just don't. I mean, people say,
oh, wow, you were able to even see UFO more than once,
you know, that like freaks people out. Or now you're you're even
able to videotape at UFO more than that more than once. That freaks people
out, and and it's because they're not educated about it like UFOs. Like
I said UFOs before, it's a high altitude phenomenon that occurs every day over
every single major city of the United States. All you have to just look
for them. It's the same at night too as well, so you know,
it's it's one of those things you go on to like the UFO Reporting
Center, like for instance, Peter Davenport UFO Reporting Center, and you can
go by state by state index and see every single siding and you'll realize that
that the data is just incredible, like like they go, you know,
there's hundreds of sidings every month, you know, in every state, so
it's and it goes back years and years and years every year, you know,
you can go back twenty years or whatever. So it's nothing that you
know, people should be like, if you're a UFO hunter or you're someone
that's interested in this stuff, you're gonna see a bunch of them, you
know, if it's what you do. But if people don't know much about
it, you know, they don't have the research or knowledge about it,
it kind of freaks them out that someone's able to see like a UFO over
and over again because they think it's a once in a lifetime experience or you
know, even a videotape one or just to see one, you know,
and that's not it's not like that, do you think though? You have
your experience in Phoenix, So what makes you think that they're over other cities
as well? Like they are there. Well, that's kind of going back
to the John bro thing. When I got into the videotaping stuff in two
thousand and five, I started quickly becoming friends with all the skywatchers that were
shooting video. When they found out I shot the same type of UFO footage
that they shot, they all wanted to be my friend and know who I
was. So in nineteen ninety five I met people like tim ed Words that
had shot a cylinder footage in Solida, Colorado, for instance, and he
shot daylight cylinder footage and you're probably familiar with that video. And I also
met during that same year Jose Escamelius, which lived in New Mexico at the
time. And so now already I have a friend in Colorado that's shooting cylinders
and I shot some daylight cylinders too, so he's shooting the same stuff I
am shooting, but he lives in Colorado. And then during the same timeframe,
I met Jose Toscameilius that lived in New Mexico and he was shooting what
they called the Midway I don't know if you're familiar with this, but back
in nineteen ninety five, Jose Escamilius was being was famous for the Midway New
Mexico UFO sightings, and he was using the solar technique to videotape little hockey
puck shaped daylight UFOs in Midway, New Mexico and then a little bit later,
a couple maybe a year later, he started becoming famous doing the Rod
things. So this was even before he was famous with rods. He was
shooting a famous UFO flap that he made famous himself by shooting footage in Midway,
New Mexico, the Midway UFO Flap, and he was getting famous off
that before even he got famous with the rod footage. And so the guy
that used to like film outside out of his skylight sometimes I'm not really too
sure on that, but this, you know who jose As Kamilias is obviously
the rods, right, yeah, yeah, before the before he got famous
with rods, he was famous for the daylight footage that he was shooting in
Midway, New Mexico. And it was called the Midway Sidings. And this
was like i'd say, like ninety two through ninety four somewhere in there,
you know, and so maybe ninety five, you know, say it was
in there. It was before he was got into the rod thing. But
so he lived in New Mexico and then of course John bro at the time
he lived in northern in southern California, and so they were all four of
them were all shooting the same stuff at the time that I was shooting here
in Phoenix. So that's what you know. I concluded this is this is
happening in every day in every city across the country. I mean, I
mean, these these four other guys prove it pretty much to me. Now,
if we had one one of these guys in every state, they would
all be reporting the same or video videotape and the same stuff. Now,
have you had some footage that you really examined closely and you could figure out
it was something you know, prosaic, like say helicopter at a distance or
something like that. Oh yeah, all the time. I have, like
I probably have like a stack of like two hundred VHS tapes because back when
you and through the nineties, when you're shooting on eight milimeter, we would
transfer all of our foot straight to a to a VHS tape. That way,
if our eight millimeter tape got eaten or damaged or something, we would
have a copy of it on a VC VHS tape. So we just back
then, we just instead of just copying the one siding onto the onto the
tape, we just tape the We just put dump the entire eight milimeter onto
the VHS because you can put like extended play and it would take like five
or six hours of tape. So we would throw it all on VHS tapes
and then go over it and decide. Well, most of the time you
can tell in camera when your video when you like I said, that's why
I always got into the the binoculars before I even press record, because when
early when you start early on, you start to realize that you're starting to
videotape a lot of crap so to speak. That I were used that word
because it ends up being a helicopter or a ball of cotton or a balloon
or something like that until you zoom in and get you know, your pressure
record, and you're trying to capture this thing. And then when you get
in on it on zoom, oh, that's just a ball of cotton or
a balloon or a helicopter, a high altitude satellite or something like that.
And so we you know, we had a lot of that stuff that we
examine just to make sure but also to get away from it all together.
That's when I started, you know, I got the binoculars. That way
we don't have to waste videotape, waste recorded tape and have to record over
something, and you know, you know, everything costs money, you know,
even back then, a you know, a high eight tape still costs
five bucks or whatever, you know, and if you're have to record over
it, you know that that doesn't look good because the quality, I mean,
I don't know if it's going to hold the same quality if it's been
This tape's been recorded over three times, you know, because the first two
times we recorded balloons by accident, you know. So now you mentioned earlier
that these are high altitude. A lot of them are high altitude. And
one of the things you hear is that a lot of people are saying about
the triangle crafts that no one sees them at high altitude. And I just
wondered, had you ever seen anything triangular high altitude? Yeah, yeah,
a matter of fact, I have. And you're right, there is a
lot of low active, low altitude activity with UFOs and triangles, but generally
these things like to you know, they like to stay a little bit away
from us, like they're a little higher up. And like the day,
I've got some daylight triangle footage in the nineties from different people, and I
videotaped one too, but generally they're different, like depending on Like I said,
you know that's weird about UFOs is like someone shoots a triangle and then
another purse shoots a triangle, and then you look at both videos and they're
different, Like the objects are different, like the crafts are different. Very
rarely do you have this person videotape the exact same thing in this video where
you can compare both videos and say, wow, that looks like the exact
same thing. I mean, most of the time you're going to get two
objects that are very similar, but you wouldn't say that they were the exact
same thing. But every now and then that happens, but not too often.
And that's that's the funny thing about the daylight triangles. As I was
thinking, is because I remember there were some footage I looked at by a
guy Tom King back in the early nineties that shot a triangular footage. But
it looked like, you know, it was high altitude, but the way
that it looked, it looked like each tip of the triangle was like a
round ball, but they were connected together like by something like an hour or
rim. So the triangle shape was there, but on each end of the
triangle was like a round ball. You had these three round balls in a
triangular formation. But when you zoom in on the footage, you can see
the outline, you know, beyond the ball of the actual shape of the
triangle. And then I compared it to a video that was shot the same
year by this guy profit Yahweh. I don't know if you've heard of this
guy before, profit Yahweh. He's been around for twenty years shooting UFO video
come out of Vegas. I did an investigation on him back in nineteen ninety
six. It drove out to Vegas to see if this guy was for real
or not. That's a totally different story. But he shot this triangular footage,
but it didn't look anything like the Tom King footage. This this triangular,
this triangle footage was boomerang shaped, and it would look like a bunch
of like white balls, like too, like you would see two white sticks
put together like a v. But when he zoomed in, it looked like
a little tiny like white balls, like they could be balloons tuck together in
a triangle like shape. But it wasn't that because they weren't like flipping like
balloons or tumbling. They were like rigid stuck and it was traveling at like
novos first across the sky, and that was, you know, some pretty
intriguing video. Like you know, a lot of these guys, to tell
you the truth, a lot of these skywatchers out there, and I'm one
of them, so I can tell you this. I'm not. You know,
it's amazing to me because they will put out some junk footage sometimes,
stuff that they know it's not UFOs, And then they'll put out some stuff
that they've shot that is UFOs and it's not like they're trying to be hoaxers
or it's not like they're trying to you know, put one over on anybody.
I think that they honestly sometimes don't know whether this is a balloon or
a UFO or an orb and they like they're fifty to fifty on it,
so they're just like, let's just put it out there. You know who
cares, you know, and that might not be the right approach sometimes,
and you know, the people that do it more often than they put out
a real piece of footage. Eventually they're labeled into a group of people that
and you know all about that. But there's groups on Facebook now that are
like these sky Anomaly groups where they're posting like balloons and they think that now
this is the weirdest thing. And you know, they think that the UFO
is like a mimic, it's like becoming a ball like it's doing the shape
of a balloon to try to trick you. And they're filming what they're filming
is not a balloon at all, even though it's got a big string and
even though it's got a picture of Spider Man on the balloon. They think
it's a call. They call it a balloon mini make and they and they
call it sky yeah, sky anomaly, uh, variables and all this other
words, nice words that they try to come up with to try to convince
you that it's not just a regular balloon. I don't. I don't believe
in any of that stuff. I got. I got VHS tapes full of
balloons that I've zoomed in on to see if it was UFO, and then
I never would put it out there as a UFO, you know, So
I don't. So you got large groups of these people out there that are
doing this is totally discrediting the entire video movement of uphology unless you videotape of
perfect sauce or shaped object or what everybody you know knows of as a flying
sauc or UFO shape and look. You know, if it doesn't have that
perfect UFO shape and look and it's got like an orb look or a balloon
look, then it's going to be labeled as a balloon or a piece of
sky garbage because of all these people that are posting all this junk. So
yeah, yeah, no, I got it. And uh there is a
lot of things out there to muddy the water as well as uh CGI and
you know, hoaxes, a real hoaxes. We're on Live with Jeff Willis
if anyone wants to call in. That's six O three nine six seven four
O three to zero. Speaking of hoaxes, there was one that went viral
recently. I think it was called Team ten or something like that. Yeah,
Secure Team Team ten. Yeah, yeah, these guys can. You
know, it's funny because you know, being in the UFOs for so long.
You know, when I was a little kid, when I was like,
like I said, when I was like seven years old, or I
got that book off the shelf, and one of the some of the pictures
in that book when I was like in kindergarten in this and in the second
grade, a couple of those different books that I had checked out from the
library, they had those perfect beautiful pictures of flying saucers by Billy Meyer.
Now, when you're looking at that as a six or seven year old kid,
you know, you're gonna believe that those pictures. Of course, they
were in the book, and they were claimed to be real. And of
course that whole case and those pictures when they came out at the time that
whole case was being brought forward in print by the investigators that brought us the
case, which were Lee Elders and Wendell Stevens, and of course the people
the person that was backing up the video to be real was none other than
Jim Delatoso. Now, all these guys are great UFO researchers, and they're
great video analysis and stuff. But we're talking nineteen seventy five, nineteen seventy
six, nineteen seventy seven. You know, I mean maybe they had the
wool pull over their eyes, you know, because because because now every time
almost i'd say almost eighty percent of the time that one of those type of
style, that grade of a picture or a video comes out, you know,
it's only a few days later where it's where everybody's like crying hoax on
it, you know, like the Secure Team ten where they keep on putting
out these perfect UFO images that everybody wants to believe, but no one can
prove if it's real or fake because they're never going to give you the original
tape of course, so right there, you're never going to know if it's
real. And they always claim, oh, we got this footage from this
person, and now we got that person on the line, or here's that
person the conversation, so you don't know if this is the guy's brother or
the guy across the street, or you don't know if they're giving a script
to read or any of this stuff. I mean. And then they never
come on to do an interview with a regular show or on television. They
never come out to defend the video or whatever. So you know, it's
like Secure Team and those other guys third face and there's a fac you know.
And so it's really bad because what if someone videotapes a real UFO on
their video camera and they go online because they don't know who to report it,
and they go on YouTube and they see this Secure Team ten or this
third Phase of the Moon guys, and they believe it and there they call
them or email and they say, oh, I got something that's real.
You got to see this, and they give it to these guys. And
now these guys are putting it out there as part of their fold of junk.
And this one just, man, this one just happens to be real,
and of course they're not going to pass that up. They're gonna throw
it in with the mix of all the other stuff that they're either producing or
faking or getting from the public that's either real or fake. And so that's
another thing. Somebody could be faking them out too, and they don't know.
They're they just put anything out there that looks good. If it doesn't
look good, they're not going to put it out there. But if it
looks good, they're going to use it or put it out there. So
that's the thing with those type of YouTube channels too. They don't put out
the maybes, you know, They put out what is considered the real thing,
you know, and even if it's CGI or whatever, you know,
we don't know until we have the real tape. Yeah, I mean,
you know, another thing is that, you know, the lack of witnesses
are real witnesses something like that one recently that went so viral. Uh,
you know, they would it was so obvious in the sky for so long
that I'm sure there would be multiple witnesses and you've heard of nothing, you
know, right, And that was just to be an ohio, I believe
or something like that, right, And that was the one with the cloud.
Was that with the cloud, it was kind of in the okay.
Yeah. Now, now there's a thing about that. Now you see a
lot of most people never look up. Okay, so when when you have
a sighting where there's only like one or two people, that's not too uncommon
because of that, just that fact that people just don't look up in the
sky there when they're walking down the street or they're usually looking down, you
know, and so they don't look up. And then and if you are
lucky enough to actually videotape something, you know, the way that that thing
was like in the cloud or whatever, these things are never trying to like
broadcast they're here. Yeah, And that the way that that thing was was
like just kind of like hanging in the cloud, like hoping that no one
can see it, you know, type of a thing. So it didn't
really if it is real, it looks like it was trying to camouflage itself.
So, uh, there's a there's someone in the uh one of the
there's two different chat rooms here. One is on Skype and the other one
is on the web our website. But someone wrote that because they were in
pursuit of the truth, asking the right questions to secure Team ten, they
banned them right away from the YouTube channel. Something else. Well, well,
you know they're going to do that because there's there's a lot of UFO
websites out there that flat out call them hoaxers and have their videos on their
site and say this, this is why these guys are fakers. As a
matter of fact, there's a website out there called ufotheater dot com that's dedicated
to exposing hoaxes. And this blew me away because back in two thousand and
six, I was contacted by a guy that ran a website called UFO Theater
dot com. It's the same website, but as a totally different owner.
Because back then, the guy that owned the site, pulled a hoax.
He pulled a hoax on me. And what he did was is he was
like, yeah, you're you know, you know, I'm going to come
out to Phoenix and I want to do a SkyWatch with you because you know,
you know, you're known for this stuff and famous for this stuff or
whatever. And so I was like, sure, you know, And so
I was kind of became friends with his website, and I had a banner
to his website, he had a banner to mine. And then the guy
comes out here hes he lived in Texas by the way, so he was
saying, yeah, I'm planning a trip to Arizona to go skywatching with you,
and so we became friends and so on, and then when he came
out to Phoenix, we did a short little SkyWatch. I dropped him off
of his hotel room with his girlfriend. And then the next day he called
me and he goes, oh, you'll never believe what happened when you dropped
me off at my hotel. I got the most incredible UFO footage in the
world. And so I said, oh, really, we'll bring it over
to my house. I got to see this, and so the guy's name
was Brian Bascent, and he come. He came to my house in the
morning and brought the video. I put it into my computer and washed it,
and it was the most amazing footage. There was this light that showed
up over the mountain and then all of a sudden, or first it comes
down from the sky and stops and then glows, and then another light comes
down from the from the top, and then it kind of docks with that
light, and then another light comes down and docks with it another until it
till like six lights full form this flower looking thing, and then it like
goes out, totally goes out, and I and I'm thinking in my head,
like the first thing I thought in my mind was this is this isn't
the most incredible footage I've ever seen, And this looks real. This looks
like a real video. And so right away he had me going Plus I
apparently, you know, i'd been friends with him for a few months after
knowing the guy and trusting him because because his site had UFO videos all over
and I trusted the guy, you know, and so uh, my second
thoughts were, wait a minute, how does this guy come into town and
two days get the most incredible UFO footage in the state of Arizona. I
didn't. I was like, this can't be. There's something wrong with this.
I mean, I want to believe it. I want to trust the
guy. But at the same time, my you know, my, my
brain's saying this isn't this is there's something wrong with his picture here. And
so I knew what to do. Okay, we have Jim Delatoso in Phoenix,
Arizona, and the Arizona news channels. They have him in their in
their back pocket. They can use him whenever they want. So I told
him, you know what you need to do, Brian, you need to
take this tape. You need to go directly to Channel three, and you
need to put this on TV. And so I totally set him up.
I had him go down there with the tape. I knew they were going
to pull Jim out of the woodwork, and they did. The first they
did the broadcast on his amazing footage with the guy and did an interview with
him, and then they sent him packing. And then they called in Jim
to do a second follow up on the story to analyze the footage, and
Jim blew it apart and found out it was designed by a computer program.
And they called the guy in for the interview, the second interview, to
come together with Jim so Jim can confront him on the video being fake and
all this stuff. And the guy never showed up. So they totally,
yeah, they totally took it apart as a hoax, and they and Jim
showed why it was a hoax on this computer and how it was generated,
how the lights were generated and stuff like by a computer program and all this.
And so by this time it was blowing up on Coast to Coast a
m and on Jeff Wren's show, and the footage was already blown up because
of the first broadcast on the news as well as being on his website.
And then like later the second part comes out to it being a hoax,
and then it really blew up. It went crazy. And so then he
now he's mad at me because he knows I set him up to get you
know, for us to find out what's going on here, and we found
out it was a hoax. So like a couple of weeks, about a
week later, he finally admits it. He does an expos on a site
where he admits the whole thing as a hoax and why he did it.
And then after that the website goes offline, it totally disappears. And then
a couple months later, you know, as checking the domain name, all
of a sudden the domain has parked and now it's owned by somebody else.
And then now we look at like ten years later, all of a sudden,
ten years later, the website comes back online, as you know,
it comes back online UFO theater dot com. And now this website's dedicated to
exposing hoaxes and they have a list of people that are hoaxing the Secure Team
ten h third Phase of the Moon. And this this guy that is running
the site. Now I'd like, when it first popped up, I was
really blown away. I was like, are you kidding me? Is this
guy back? And now he's going to dedicate his uphology to exposing hoaxes after
he was the hoaxer. And it turned out that that wasn't the case.
It was turned out that this guy bought that domain knowing about the He knew
about the shady paths of the domain, and he was going to try to
make it good by by making this domain dedicated to just exposing hoaxes, and
so you know, I had a little chat with him and I was completely
blown away. And that's when I learned that, Yeah, for third Phase
of the Moon and Secure Team ten, and there's a couple other ones on
there that they claim our hoax and all these videos, you know, And
that's the sad part. It's like, what if some of these videos aren't
hoped because people see them on YouTube and send their real video to them.
Yeah, you know, that's that's so true. Now. What was his
statement of why he hoped that video before his website went down? Well,
his his his whole thing on his ex his EXO was that he posted about
why he did it was because he wanted to prove that Jeffrens his website,
will post anything on UFOs without even knowing if it's real or not. So
his his whole thing was to attempt to try to discredit the Wren's website and
the Jeff Frowns show. That was his immediate goal. His other goal was
also to prove that when you buy UFO DVDs online that it could be all
fake and that you just wasted your money. And that was kind of a
shot at me because a lot of us that we're doing UFOs. At the
time, we were trying to come out with videotapes DVDs to sell with our
real footage on it. So basically it was his way of trying to shoot
everybody's real footage down by saying, oh, you don't know what you're buying
now. Now you can't trust my footage, how can you trust anybody else's.
So now when you spend twenty bucks on a DVD, you may be
getting completely fake footage, you know. And so it seems like ever since
that case that our sales did go down too. And I don't want to
try to I don't want to give him credit for dropping DVD sales on UFOs
across the internet, on everybody's website, but it's almost like it's that happened
almost because his site got like worldwide national attention on rens and on coast to
coast a m at the time, and then all of a sudden it was
proved to be a fax, you know, and so you know, people
are wory about buying DVDs after that point. It seems like, yeah,
yeah, there's a question up on the message board, do you connect early
childhood experiences and your ability to have these sightings. Well, at first I
did, and now I mean in a way I do and I don't,
because I think that if you've never had a UFO signing, or if you've
never had a UFO like abduction or alien experience or whatever, if you've never
had either one of those, I believe that you can still go out in
your backyard during the middle of the day and see these things up there if
you put the time in to look for them. Okay, and further in
that question, do you have any other paranormal or high high strangeness experiences?
Oh, yeah, one time I will. I'll just you know. The
one that pops to the mind the most was I would say this was back
in like twenty twelve. I think, yeah, twenty thirteen. I was.
It was about maybe like five in the afternoon and preseason football had just
started. So I was watching like the very first preseason football game of the
year, and I remember it's like Dallas. It's someone I can't really remember
who, but I remember Dallas, and so I was lying there watching it,
and for some reason I don't. It's weird because like when you're watching
a game or watching something on TV that you're interested in, and then all
of a sudden falls like go into like a half sleep state. Doesn't really
make sense to me, like why would I let myself drift off like that?
And so that was kind of weird. So like all of a sudden,
I'm in this half sleep half awake state, and all the next thing
I know, I'm completely paralyzed. I'm into that paralysis again and I can't
move at all, and I am able to force my eyelids open. That's
the only thing I can. The only muscle on my body is that I
can move is my eyelids, so I'm able to open them. And everything's
fuzzy now because I'm in this state and I can't break out of it.
But I'm thinking in my head, well, I'm paralyzed and I can't break
out of this, but I can. I just managed to open my eyelids
and I can see. So I see the TV still on and the fuzzy
pictures on and you can't really make out the game because I'm in this state,
and all of a sudden, I see this what I the only way
I can describe it is like a U shaped like a woman's purse that is
like U shaped, you know what I'm saying, like a U shaped purse,
a handbag. It looked like it was leather, like a like a
leather texture, and it had like octopus tentacles all over it, all over
it. It was then they were flipping everywhere. It had like i'd say,
like twenty octopus like tentacles maybe you know, twelve inches long, each
one of them, flipping all over the place like crazy. And it was
all attached to this U shaped thing. And this thing was hovering about I'd
say, this thing was literally hovering four feet from me, on to the
left of the side of the bed, and it was hovering right over a
case of all of my DVDs, all of my UFO footage that's been dumped
onto DVD storage and I have, like I have this this crate full of
DVDs in spools, you know, stacks of them in there. And this
thing was hovering right over that area. And I saw it like hovering over
it for probably it seemed like maybe three or four minutes, and then it
disappeared. And as soon as it disappeared, I was able to break free
of the prolysis and like blink my eyes a little bit and rub them and
look again and see did I just see what I thought I saw? And
feel how I just thought I felt, you know, right like that,
you know, paralyzed. And then it was like it. You know,
when these things come into your presence or whatever they are, they have the
ability to turn you off or shut you off. And it's and that is
described in all the UFO literature, in all the abduction stuff as well.
So it's not just a sleep what the medical community would call just a sleep
proalyss this where you've hallucinated this. This is not the case, you know,
sleep proalysis. That's a completely different thing. That's when you're in the
awake and a sleep state and you apparently you can't move or whatever, but
you're not gonna see these things. You're not going to be able to open
up your eyelids and see forms and figures and these things doing these weird things.
That's, you know, your brain doesn't work like that. You know,
I'm sorry, but it's not going to make up fake stuff just because
you're in a sleep. You're half in a sleep and half awake, and
it's you know what and what does what does Scientists and experts know about what
sleep prolysis is anyways, right, you know what I'm saying, right right.
One of the things that came to mind is when you're talking about the
different objects that you see, how about orange gorbes? You hear about that
a lot. Oh yeah, yeah. A matter of fact, we had
a case of flap. We had what they call a UFO flap here between
the year two thousand and the year two thousand and three, where we had
this red or orange orb that was showing up in the same time, same
area, and it was like videotaped by ten or twelve different people over a
three month period. And sometimes when it would show up, but there would
be two of them, like side by side, like not close enough to
where you would think that it was one object with two lights on the side,
but far enough away, like maybe half a mile in between the middle
of each of these two things, and they would travel together at a slow
speed. Now a lot of them. You know. The people thought,
oh, these are just Chinese lanterns, or it's a road flare tied to
a milear or something like that. But it wasn't that because when we zoom
in on high power, there was no smoke. There was no flickering like
candle or flare type of flickering. It was like a solid glow, like
an orb like you're saying, like an orange or like a glow, you
know. And so this went on for like, you know, on and
off, like there was a good time period there for about a one the
like the first summer it happened, this thing would show up maybe twice a
week. It was pretty it was pretty punctual on its I mean it was
pretty consistent. But then after that summer it dropped off, and then the
next two years it would show up sporadically, like maybe once every three weeks
or something like that. So, yeah, Now when you're doing this SkyWatch,
do you always do it alone or sometimes do you have someone with you?
Well? I normally do it alone, unless we do a group outing
or if I have some people that want to come by and to you know,
do a SkyWatch with me. What about night vision? Do you ever
get into that? I know you said you filmed at night and it was
kind of boring, but do you ever get into night vision as well?
Well? Yeah, I got it. I've gotten into night vision, but
I don't have the equipment. Basically, I have. I have a sony
camera that has a night shot on it, which is totally which is totally
different, but it does illuminate, you know, it's pretty good for video,
you know, camera quality right right of all the footage that you've taken,
or I should say, everything that you've seen, is there something that
stands out as the most remarkable. Well, yeah, there's a couple of
them. There's a couple of night pieces of footage. There's this one piece
of footage on my side that's labeled for twenty two thousand and six, and
that's when it was shot, you know, And so what happens with this
piece of footage was really weird. It starts out as like two lights,
two orbs at night, and they're just two like white orbs, like in
the distance. They don't look very far. It looks like within about a
mile away. And then you see these two orbs for about thirty seconds,
and then all of a sudden, one just kind of dims out where there's
only like one, and then that one gets kind of closer and closer and
closer, and then all of a sudden you'll see like it shooting orbs out
of it, like like one at a time, and they're going and it's
not shooting them down, it's shooting them up out of the top of it.
And so these four or five lights that come out of it. It
turns into like a triangular shape. And then the top of where the trianglar
is turns red like flashes like it doesn't like flash red. It kind of
just gets like really bright red and then kind of dims down. And then
after seeing this for about a minute more, the whole thing just completely shuts
off. And so, yeah, it was that's a doozy, that one.
And then there was another one that a piece of footage that I've shot
that's on a ton of different ve on a ton of different television programs.
Then I'm on and they always love to use it, and it's this one
was it was I think it was the May twelfth, two thousand and five,
I believe it is. Yeah, And what happens here is it's like
a twilight shot and you've probably seen it. It was like a like almost
sunset and you'll see like all of a sudden, we're doing an interview.
Okay, this is the funny thing. We were We met with the guy
that had been seeing some UFO UFOs in the area, and he actually shot
his own video of some UFO footage that you know, he's been having sightings
over and over for the last couple of months. And so we meet him
at the mountain where he, you know, sees a lot of his footage,
and we're doing an interview and all of a sudden it shows up.
And the funny thing about it is is I already had the camera rolling because
we were taping him talking on his interview. So like we had him on
one camera, we're shooting him on two different cameras because as we were,
you know, we wanted to get the different camera angles. And so I
at the moment that he's on the one camera and I have the other camera,
I don't have that one camera on him because the other camera was covering
him. I have it just over to the side just a little bit,
and so it's not he's not in the view. And all of a sudden,
right in the middle of the screen of my camera that's already on record,
that's where when the ULFO shows up, right there right it just blinks
on right in the middle of my my camera frame. And and as I'm
looking I see it right away, and so like right off the bat,
you hear me, I say, I got a serious the lights. I
got it, I got it, And so I zoom in on it,
and it's four lights. And what's weird, What what was bizarre is that
the light on the far right disappears, and then a new light appears on
the far left of the original three that were on the left hand s.
So this thing appears to be skipping across the sky. And now the new
light that's on the right that took its place disappears, and then a new
light shows up on the left. And this happens like three or four times
on each light. So it's like skipping across the sky in like a weird
like ricochet skipping pattern deal. And it was really weird. And there was
a like a small, like thin cloud above these UFOs, and so we
would be able to tell if it was a flare of me and dropped from
an airplane, because there was no planes above them dropping anything. And so
all of a sudden, these lights disappear, and then like two seconds later
you'll see a light show up on the far left, maybe like a mile
away from the original sequence, within like one second, So it's almost like
it hyper jumped, like after it disappeared, hyper jumped over here and it
shows up. So I got that all on one frame, and you're probably,
you know, are all on one catch, and I'm sure you're familiar
with that piece of footage that I don't know if you've seen it, but
I think so, yeah, yeah, it's it's a matter of fact,
Okay. So after I shout the shoot the footage, I sent it to
Art Bell immediately that same that very next day or the same night, even
I don't know. I think it was the next day or whatever. It
may have been that same night, but I believe it was the next day.
I sent it emailed it to him, and Art called me right after
he got it, and I wasn't home, or I was home, but
I was in the other room, so I didn't hear the phone ring.
So the answer machine got it, and so I knew someone called, so
I was. I went out there and I pressed playing. I hear Art
on the on the voicemail. He's saying, Saint Jeff, uh, this
is Art Bell calling you. Are you there? And then he's then he
says are you there? And then he says hello, Jeff hangs up and
I was like, oh gosh, and so uh that voice? Yeah?
Yeah. So I call him back and he's like, you ready to go
on the air with this, and I was like, yeah, of course,
and so it's cool. So after that, you know, show featured
that piece of footage, I got calls from Sci Fi Channel they wanted to
put me on Factor Factor Fake. So I was on the very first episode,
season one, episode one of Factor Faked, where yeah, so that's
where that yeah, And so that's one of the shows where you probably saw
that piece of footage. And what they even did was in that first season
of Factor Faked, they actually incorporated my piece of footage into the beginning sequence
of the opening of the show, like you'll see a bunch of different footage
and then you'll see mine there and you'll hear my voice, and so that
was kind of cool. And so what they did was is they tried to
fake the footage to see if they can duplicate it, and it didn't work,
and so so then they tried another experiment where they try to fake it
and it didn't work. And so their third attempt was to have a nighttime
investigation and during that nighttime investigation. They had a UFO siding in the same
place where I had mine, so I kind of backed up my story.
And then on top of that, they took my voice, which I didn't
know they were going to do. They took an audio clip of my voice
when I was describing what I saw and my siding, and they took my
voice and they put it in a test which the Sheriff's department uses, which
is a voice test. It's a stress test analysis, and this will prove
whether you're a person's voice is telling the truth or their line or whatever.
And I passed on Flying Cols that my story was real, and so they
showed that at the end of the clip of the Factor Fix too. They
said, not only did we not war, we not able to duplicate what
he shot, but we had our own siding that night during our night investigation,
and on top of that, our analysis on his story comes out conclusive
that he told the truth. I remember that whole episode, Yeah, I've
watched them all. Yeah. And so they also used the footage that same
clip. They used it on the opening of that movie Race to Witch Mountain
with the Rock and at the beginning of that movie raced which mountain. They
have a bunch of UFO clips at the very beginning of the movie, and
they sandwiched that one in with about five or six of other ones that I
had shot, So they basically licensed maybe five or six shots from me to
go into the opening sequence, sandwiched in with about fifty other clips that other
people shot. And that same clip was also used on another show that I
was on called it was called it was on. It was a sci fi
show and it featured the son of Gilligan from Gilligan's Island, the Sun of
Him. His name's Patrick Denver. And this show, this show was called
X Testers. I don't know if you're it only it was like four episodes
they they recorded. I think they did like eight episodes, but they like
they released the first four shows, and I guess it didn't get enough watches,
so the rest of the episodes were shelved or whatever. And this ran
on Discovery Channel, and so it was on that show, and then it
was also on Ancient Aliens showed a clip of it and a few other shows.
I think best evidence caught on tape the Bob Kveat special that it was
on that show as well and so yeah, it's been on a ton of
different show. Yeah. Shane has a couple of questions on the message board
for you. Do you ever capture things that you would consider might be military
technology? Yeah, yeah, all the time. A lot of the ones.
Well, see that's the thing is a lot of times when you videotape,
what you think is like, you know, those hockey puck shaped UFOs
or the round orb ones, the daylight ones, like a lot of the
metallic, a lot of the metallic high altitude stuff that falls into that category,
like hockey puck shape or orb shaped that's up there. A lot of
that could fall into that category as some type of a military probe or a
military vehicle, secret project or something, because you know, when it's that
high up, you can't really tell how big it is, and the alls
you really have is like an estimation of like you think to yourself, like,
you know, if I parked in a parking lot and I walked a
couple like five hundred feet away from my car and look at it, it's
gonna be tiny. It's gonna be you can like take your two fingers and
like kind of put it in between them and kind of measure it that way,
and you have to do the same thing with something way way high up
in the sky, you know, like a like a seven forty seven or
a plane. It's going to look tiny up there, but when you're standing
right next to it at the airport's huge. So you've got to kind of
figure out the you know, dimensions of these things. And it could be
hard when they're so high, but that's how you rule out that it can't
be a balloon or a you know, a cotton ball or something high up
there, because if it's that high, you're not going to be able to
see a tiny you know, something that small. You know, it's going
to be like a little pin dot up there compared to these other things that
are bigger. So this thing has to be the size of a suburban or
three cars put together or something like that. You know, So anything in
that range that's bigger that you would conceive if when you're looking at it,
is this thing is bigger than a balloon, you know, anything like that
could be. You know, it's fair game for military you know, secret
projects or extraterrestrial UFO. You know, you really don't know, I mean
us the thing lands and people get out and this you know, our aliens
get out or whatever. That's the only way you're gonna ever know. Now.
Shane also asked if you ever considered streaming your skywatching. I wonder if
you could do that, but it seems like that there's so much downtime that
you can't. Well, we did, we have done it, and we
did do it, but you know, and you're right, it's it is.
There is a little a lot of time downtime. But that during the
point that we were doing it, it was during that flap that that you
know, the UFO was you know, coming like two or three times a
week, so we knew between seven thirty at nine o'clock, this thing's going
to show up three days out of the week. You know, this thing
was very consistent. So that's when we were doing our lives casts. And
you know, as soon as the flap stopped, we stopped doing the sky
watches because it's like you said, it's just you know, just it'd be
just like staring in looking at you know, for hours at nothing until finally
something showed up. So in place of that doing live skywatchers. Now we'll
do the live skywatchers again if we run into another flap where the thing's coming
back over and over and over. We'll try to get it live. But
see what we've done instead of that is, if you go to Ufosorphoenix dot
com, my website, you'll see SkyWatch cameras that are live that are there.
And these are these are cameras that are set up around Phoenix that are
broadcasting live. And I've just put the direct links on my website. So
if you click at the camera, box will open up and you'll get to
see a live video of four or five different cams around Phoenix. And so
they're they're they're connected with other websites, but we put them on our website
so you don't have to go to the other website to open them. You
just click the camera. It opens right on our website like it's our own
cameras all over they all over the valley, you know. And so and
you know, that's what we've done for live skywatching cameras that we is We've
put some some mountain cameras up there from Phoenix, different Phoenix live sources.
Uh huh. I see. Now, have you ever thought about using any
other type of equipment along in concert with the video in other words, some
type of detection or anything like that. Well, yeah, I mean,
you know, I've thought about it a lot, but you know, you
know, we don't really you know, we don't even have the money really
to get night vision, you know, really, so we're running on uh,
you know, a shoe string budget. And like on our website,
we have you know, we have a donate button there for people that want
to help us, you know, to donate money to help us keep our
our footage on the line. Our website's going, and all of our you
know, hosting paid for, and like I was telling you before, we
had our movie streams up there live that people can like watch them. But
we did get enough for that, enough watches to keep it on, you
know, to keep it hosted. But instead we have our DVDs on there
where if you buy a DVD, they're you know, they're they're like twenty
bucks. If you buy one, you'll get the DVD and it only costs
you know, probably like you know, three dollars to ship it, and
then it cost me probably another five bucks to make it. So whatever profit
I have leftover goes to hosting, or goes to new equipment, or to
you know, I have a cam. I have a high eight camera that
still takes high eight tapes. You know, I have the old one,
and then I have a brand new camera that is a hard drive camera,
so it captures everything on the camera's memory like a computer, and then you
can dump it on your computer later. So I have the best of the
new stuff and I have the best of the old stuff. But you know,
I, you know, I'd love to get some night vision telescopes,
you know, and night vision cameras and night vision stuff. And you know,
you know, if I had a bunch of money, I would be
able to dump more money into it. And you know, they have these
UFO detective detectors and stuff like, they have all sorts of strange stuff on
the internet. Now, yeah, there's actually some some people really looking deeply
into doing that. We had to talk last week about that. Someone posted
on the Skype message board that if you watch eBay you can pick up some
night vision as low as two hundred dollars if you keep your eye on eBay.
Someone else on the other message board wants to know, is this a
full time thing you do or do you actually have a job where you work?
And then you do this like as a passion hobby type thing. Yeah,
I do it. You know, I have a job I have to
keep. You know, I have like a like a part time job,
you know, it pays some of the bills and stuff. And then I
I do this. You know, I would say this is kind of like
a part time job in itself. You know, I could make it full
time. You know, I could spend more time, uh, you know,
uploading more videos, making the website you know better. You know,
I could spend like eight hours a day on the websites alone, you know,
at making them better and putting more stuff on there and managing them and
stuff like that. But I just don't have the time. So I have
have to, you know, dedicate you know, a couple hours a week
doing the websites and a few hours a week doing sky watching and then a
few hours you know, you have Facebook feeds where you have to upload stuff
too, and all this other stuff. So it becomes a full time job,
you know, right right, Yeah, And we talked earlier before the
show, just for a couple of minutes, and this is not the type
of field you want to get into if you want to make a lot of
money, right, And that's why I'm saying that. I mean, if
everybody listening, like like you were saying, like UFO people don't like to
spend money on on UFO stuff, you know, or they don't like to
spend a lot of money, so you know, and I know that,
and I you know, if you love UFOs and you want to keep seeing
us, put them on our website, and you want to do something to
help the field out, you know, I'd say, everybody listening, you
know, I mean, if you can just at least like just donate like
a dollar to us, like you know, I mean, that would if
and people don't look at it, Oh you know, if I donate a
dollar, it's not going to do anything. Yeah, But like if two
or three hundred people just donated a dollar, we would have the money to
reactivate our movie streams and put them back up. We would be able to
pay for all of our hosting. We would be able to go buy a
night vision camera. Because see, at the at the end of the month,
all of them, my money is going to have to go to paying
my rent and keeping the electricity on and paying the water bilon stuff like that.
After that, we don't have money for UFOs. So you know,
if you can donate a buck, then we might have money at the end
of the month. Well, we'd at least have money to reactivate our movie
streams and put them out there. Because right now all of the video footage
of UFOs on my website. You can download it or you can see it
on YouTube. But we actually had our we have like five DVD movies that
we sell for twenty bucks each, and we actually had all of those movies
on our website where you can watch them for only a dollar. You didn't
have to spend twenty bucks to get the DVD. You can just go on
there and watch it for a dollar. But we didn't have enough people doing
it and to host all those movies that cost forty bucks a month, and
we weren't even getting forty people to watch them to pay for it, you
know. And so you know, we could just get one person to donate
the forty bucks and then we would reactivate them for everybody else, you know.
So there's a lot of different ways that could work. But if everybody
would just you know, you know, like you said, can put you
know, just a buck you know at their favorite you know, their favorite
people and UFOs and you know, everybody's got a donation button on their website,
you know, so you know, everybody can help everybody, y,
you know, just we only have a couple of minutes left, just two
minutes left or so. But I one of the things that comes to mind.
We were talking earlier about Billy Meyer and people like Billy Meyer Third Phase
of the Moon Secure Team ten all that they're in it for the money obviously,
and you can't force UFOs. In other words, they it's a fleeting
thing. It's nothing you can captivate to make money on, and I think
people just get frustrated with it and decide that they're going to hoax who try
to make money. There's a girl named Shila Aliens can't Sheila Alan I think
her name is, and she she was on my show and she confronted.
She was verbally confronting and interviewing. I can't remember the name of the two
brothers on Third Phase of the Moon. Yeah, yeah, I'm familiar with
her. I've been on a show. I've been on a couple of shows
with Sheila as well. Okay, well she you know, basically, I
think she told me that they were making several thousand dollars a month by those
with those fake videos. So ye, and I saw the interview where she
confronted those two brothers cousins or whatever their name or third phase of the mood.
And what they do, how they make the money is you know where
they got that fake UFO video on there, and then they put those adcent
banner ads on there from you from YouTube, you know, and then after
like a million people watch it, you know that, you know, that
ad pops up a million times and that puts adsent money into the account.
And we use absents on our videos too, but our videos are real,
you know, and we're just trying to make to recoup the money that's that
we lose on hosting every month to try to recoup it. And you know,
it's funny because you know, I got to tell you we're out of
time. I hate to tell you, oh so real quick, throw your
your website out there, if you would. Yeah, it's ufosover Phoenix dot
com. And we got ufosover Phoenix dot net and we have another website called
UFO Footage dot Net. All right, Jeff, thanks so much, absolutely
great, it's been great, and thanks so hopefully get me on again sometime.
I'll be happy to come on. All right, excellent, thanks a
lot, Okay everyone, so thank you for listening, and we'll be on
next week. And I don't have the guests secured, so I'm not going
to announce who it is, but we'll see you here next week. And
I want to thank everyone that helps out with the show. Thank you over
at PSN Radio as well, and we'll see you next week. Keep your
rise to the sky.