What is krack Alakin fellow thermonuclear a efforts. I am DAPA Valley coming at
you as always with my certified fan casuist co host mister Grant Hughes. We
are onto our final division off season outlook, which hopefully did not get blown
up before we published it. It is the Central Division. Before we get
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to our stores in the podcast on YouTube description you can see Grant rocking if
you're watching the He's Sorry Mitchell Robinson shirt. Yes, we're recording home at
homes. We don't just wear the same clothes over and over again. Speak
yourself. He's got a cup, I've got a sweatshirt, Go buy it.
It's it's so it's so spectacular, it's so thermonuclear af Grant, how
the heck are you? I'm doing really well. I'm glad you specified that
we don't just wear the same clothes every day. That's that's helpful because otherwise
people might not know. Can I ask also if we discussed what and maybe
we have what the process is for getting startup sort being fantabulous. Is there
is there a panel so you have to go before like a triumvirts like you
have to do feats of strength. You're actually under review because holding on to
your point coin eighty two tickets rather than selling them. Well, I think
it's good to have checks because you don't want to just like you don't want
to have tenure in your certification. You need to like consistently prove that you
warrant that certification. So I am I welcome that, and I wonder if
I should probably put myself in review sauce I'm the only one who basically says
certified fantabulous and coined it that someone you're in need to review me at some
point because I can't just be some time the origin point of it. That
doesn't mean that I can just stay. Yeah, we need someone to watch
the watchers on this one. Where does the lip ring? What does the
lip ring do? Because our YouTube commenters and TikTok or seem very offended by
it. There he some variation of but he has a lip ring? Or
why would I get b ball opinions from with a whippring is right up there
with you don't watch Team Max games now for us, and you know what,
that's kind of a point of pride yea for me. Well, it's
worse than that because it's like, well, I mean, he has a
lip ring, so clearly he can't analyze drop coverage like that's the connection being
made as opposed to he didn't watch the game, so we can't analyze drop
coverage. That at least like makes sense. It's wrong because you do watch
them. But yeah, that's that's a that's we've been there's there's is that
an invention of a new logical fallacy? It kind of feels close to that.
I have no idea. But my favorite one recently because it happened just
yesterday. So that's why my favorite one is someone said, why would someone
with any sports knowledge listen to a dude with a lip piercing You all might
attract some goofball, So I said, why are you? So I decided
to respond, I said, why are you so offended by it? And
they said, I'm not offended. It's just a side of a man that's
lost. I'm helping you not burn for all eternity. Oh wow, what
a hard pivot. That's exciting. I didn't know that's where it was going.
I didn't respond. It was because honestly impressed. I was like,
if you feel that strongly about it, Like, yeah, I don't feel
that strongly about anything. I envy this guy, Like that's a that's impressed.
Wow, So you're damned, I guess, sorry to hear it.
You know who's not damned? The first team in the Central Division that you're
going to take us through. How's that per segue? Well, they kind
of are. But so this is the Chicago Bulls, assuming we have the
alphabet right. Oh yeah, wow, I was in my head. Was
cool. You didn't have it right? You have the alphabet wrong? Yeah,
it was me last time. Now to you, ye Alham. It's
so hard. It's so hard, and you learn it early and then you
use it all the time and you forget. But I'm gonna start with Chicago
because cch comes before cl and all the other letter combinations in here. I
guess that's so great. This is all organic. These alphabet mistakes are so
real everyone that actually it's a little concern name. It's a little concerning I
can't listen to you. The guy doesn't know the alphabet because he has a
lippering. That's the problem. Yeah, that's what. And and also because
I have a lippering, I forgot to mention for anyone who hasn't listened to
these before, I will be setting an alarm in the background to keep things
moving. So dot, don't be alarmed when you're the alarm. How's that
best lippering humor? Right there? Do not endorse key free agents for the
Chicago Bulls. Nikola Vukovich. I would assume move is restricted. Kobe White
also restricted. UH. Derrick Jones junior does say Colby Kobe White. If
you put it, jeez you and you're spelling Derrick Jones junior. Andre Drummond
has a player option. Patrick Beverly is also a free agent. Patrick Williams
interesting extension candidate, pretty hard to hard to evaluate UH rookie year and subsequent
seasons, but eligible for an extension. Nonetheless, the Bulls cap situation is
basically that they should have the full mid level exception to spend. They don't
have any trade exceptions, so h we do need to have a macro discussion
about this team's overall direction. But probably first we should hit their needs.
Assuming they don't do a you know, a overhaul blow up, what a
tear down, whatever you want to call it, which, uh, spoiler
alert, I will just endorse, but what what what do you say in
the view rating drops video? Assuming assuming they don't trade zach Lavine, Demarduroz
and blah blah blah. So I've had a lot of bulls. Fans said
that they need a real point guard, and I disagree. I think if
you had more shooting on this team, it would offset whatever inclination you have
to get up like you have Demorro Rosen, you have zach Lavine, you
have like Alex Cruzoe. I would assume movie you won't have Lonzo ball.
That's really unfortunately he's expected to miss all of next season. I really hope
that we get to see him play basketball again, because that absolutely sucks.
I would prioritize shooting, and can you upgrade the front line rotating like there's
also a team that could use some more true wings. It could use an
upgrade at center from the Kolavuchevitch, but I don't really know. They might
he might have them in the bird rights trap just because who are you going
to sign with the mid level exception that's better than the koalavouch Witch who had
a solid year for them. It's over. The path is to continue trying
to contend in the Eastern Conference. I think their biggest moves will happen via
trade, if they happen at all. But I think you have to resign
Vouch and that it's can we acquire, Like I really like Max Struce for
this team, or maybe even a Josh Richardson, just like a wing type
who can shoot. Max Drews is a better fit in terms of volume with
just like off ball motion of the difficulty on his three pointers. That's the
route. If they're gonna go to continue to try and win around this core
route, I think they need to prioritize shooting, probably more in addition to
I guess talent retention. Yeah, I guess I think that's right. But
yeah, just the idea that like, really, you know, de Rosen
and Levin are both better on the ball, certainly derosen than off so I
think the theory of the team. You know, when Lonzo was healthy,
it made perfect sense. He's a connector like Alex Caruso is not a you
know, gonna skick and roll point guard either. It's just you got you
have your your offensive you know, maybe the term is like offensive initiators as
opposed to point guard. Do you sort of have that and then certainly you
have that if you bring White back or just soon we're both seems unlikely,
but yeah, so I want to do the macro question here real quick before
our timer dings at us. Do you bring Vouchovitch back? If so,
for how much do you entertain trading levine? Like what are your what are
your tear down or tear down adjacent thoughts? Because my position is kind of
for a while been like this team is you know, not Wizards level,
but they're just kind of chasing mediocrity. They gave up all these picks in
the Orlando trade, which finally that that thing's complete. Now all those picks
have conveyed and just you know, the longer we get the further we get
away from it, the worse it looks. So my my inclination would be
to make some wholesale changes and start over. Do you subscribe to that like
in total in part where what are your thoughts macro on the Bulls. I
wouldn't subscribe to it in total, I think, and I also believe,
and I think a lot of Bulls fans are on that train, like it
seems from just like what I've seen them say that they're all in if this
organization would actually rebuild, and unless there's a deal out there, which is
really tough to build, because you do owe that twenty twenty five pick to
San Antonio that it's top ten protected, but it leaks out a little bit,
so it makes pulling off your own big trade really difficult. Unless someone's
ridiculously high on Patrick Williams and that Blazer's pick that is protected through twenty twenty
eight coming to you, I think you get a lot. I don't know
what you get for Demarduroz and going to the fun a year of his deal.
That's really tough. And I think you get a good amount for Zach
Lavine, though I think people have overblown the state of his contract. Even
in this new CBA climate, you're not gonna get like this Bradley Beal esque
return in part he doesn't never no trade clause. He's also a player that
I think would be more open to more. It's not he doesn't have the
connection to the organization that Damian Lillard does. To Portland, we're gonna say,
well, we're gonna send you where you want to go. They would
work with the player, I'm sure, but you could send him to more
destinations and I think get I don't think you're gonna get a Donovan Mitchell Rudy
Gobert type Paul but again also takes his one team. You might get the
equivalent of three four first round picks or prospects, and that's a good launching
point for your rebuild. I think you could get a first round pick for
Alex Caruso. What is interesting is as part of any tear, I think
could you get at least a first round pick for Demarta Rozen. I don't
need to, He's been on real for them the past two years. But
like, are the bank on knowing his age, his specific it and like
you, if you're the Bulls that you want to win, or if you're
another team and you want that version of damartar Ocean, you're just banking on
bonkers shot making in high leverage situations where you're almost waiting for him to fall
off. Yeah, he's a very specific fit that you have to have the
right type of players around I think to make sense. But as like an
expiring that you could just come for you, I'm struggling to think of the
team that, like a really good team that needs offense, because chances are
you're not going to become a really good team if you just don't have,
you know, a bunch of ways to score. But yeah, later give
up their pick and like take him into cap space or maybe you work it.
They could do the Bob but Beasley thing for Damarta Rosen. Yeah,
I don't hate it because well they're a perfect example of it. Their defense
was great and then they struggled to score all season and in the playoffs even
after they remade the roster. So yeah, that's that's a fit in the
LA thing if you want to factor that into I think he's absolutely worth a
first. It just it's going to take he's worth a first to the right
team. I don't but the quote unquote right team is probably limited to like
eight or ten teen have a team, let me hear. I don't know
if anyone's talked about you could build it. It would probably take two contracts,
one of which you know right off the bat, and then you have
to figure it out for there, Boston needs another ball handler. The theory
is he he prevents those bogged down possessions where the ball swings around and they
generate nothing. Basically, But if you're this side of the Christos Porzingk,
he's a trade out thing. Yeah, but yeah, how much, I
mean, how much you give if it's brogged in plus salary plus den okay,
the asset. What does Chicago want for it? That's interesting. I
would not have thought of Boston. But I mean, look, the problem
with the Porzingis trade is it did not address the team's problem. Also,
Derozen's a pretty good passer too, like Pas. It's not just he's gonna
get you the sixteen footer, it's he's gonna get into his space and then
find somebody. Maybe yeah, I think he does. The Porzingis trade did
not address that deficiency in Boston's offense. I think a DeRozan move would.
That's just like I had never thought of that. I don't know how to
wrap my head around that one yet. But that's that's pretty interesting. That's
that's why that's why you get paid the big bucks. I think I don't
yet. The big Bucks. Sorry, I don't think the Bulls would they
saddle themselves with the health risk of Okay, we're already paying Lonzo and out
Rodin's playing, but like the Clippers refuse that trade. That's just a team
Like I think there are teams out there that would give you a first for
So my point was what gets interesting is if you're tearing it down, are
you keeping and moving Patrick Williams? So extension eligibility? Yeah, follow up
question, what's he what's the number for him? Because that that informs whether
you're keeping it just some of the So let's oh man, we're already through
the Bulls real quick? Is Patrick Williams he's been disappointing? Is that fair
to say? As you know, a number four pick like he hasn't?
I just someone feels buried in the offensive pecking order though, So I just
don't know. If he's been and there was the injuries at the start,
I would say he has failed to meet expectation. Yes, is a fair
way to put it. And yet, career forty one point four sent three
point shooter, not a ton of volume, but two point six attempts per
game. He's played one hundred and seventy games, Like, that's not nothing
can defend. Is is like a big forward that like somewhere in there,
and he's going into his age twenty two season. So I think if I'm
rebuilding, I probably keep him around, assuming that I can do it for
you know, nothing more than like solid starter money. I think, so
DeAndre Hunters contract like four for ninety that feels really scary. But the CAP's
going up, I mean probably not that high, but that's not insane anything.
Oh, what's the number on Vootch? You're like, because Gona,
this team is gonna try and compete if you're keeping voots, Like, what's
the number where it's I don't know who's giving it to him? Which is
the other thing that's funny, Like who's giving Vootch on the market at the
mid level? Honestly, I'm just oh, no, I was gonna say
a mid level. I don't want to pay more than the mid level for
him, like and I on his numbers and whatever. He's a very skilled
player, but it's just that's that's where we are with that player type.
For me, I think if you could do like two years thirty would be
ideal because then it's sort of a contract that you could move. Yeah,
but like the whole idea of moving him is it's just like there's no demand
for that player. There's a salary matching tool to because a Lonzo ball is
not going to be that for you anymore. It's like a fifteen million dollars
salary anchor is pretty pretty valuable. Yeah, maybe you throw a team option
on a year three to make it feel like he could win. The Bush
gets a three year sixty million dollars. I like that. Yeah, we
gotta get to Cleveland though, right was this year? Was this the team
you're thinking of? Or are we farther off of the alphabet? No?
No, this is the team I was thinking all right? Uh, free
agents of note here Caris Lavert, Danny Green, Robin Lopez, Hellnetto,
and Dylan Windler. Isaaca Coro is eligible for an extension. They should have
the full MLI and they have a trade exception of three point nine million for
Baji. Uh. Like, you can't talk about the calves without they need
a three and D wing, right, Like, that's that's where we have
to start, And how are they getting that in a market with basically none
of them? Yeah? I don't know. I mean, I don't expect
you to answer that question like it's I think the options would be like and
you're kind of like loosely into like Harrison Barnes who slipped on defense, but
I think he could play the three on this team. Will he get will
he go for the mid level? Josh Richardson's a good name. I feel
like Max Drews is gonna get more than the mid level, but he would
be good. He leads more three than d but he'll try. Those are
names that you could consider. But I think, and this is why we're
worried about this podcast being ruined before it goes up, is that Brian Windhorse
was alluding to some pretty inflammatory things involving the calves while he was on ESPN
Tuesday. I don't know what those are. My guests would be, you're
not trading Garland, you're not trading Mitchell, you're not trading Mobli and so
it's okay Jared Allen for who Yeah, And it's not Ogna Nobi because I'm
assuming the Raptors are just gonna resign Peardle and you're not getting Peartle and Annobi
for Alan plus salary. I wouldn't think anyway, h oh, j is
Jared out? No, I oh, Jannoby's more valuable than than Jared when
you're looking at playoffs, and said, yeah, but it's Jared Allen for
who he's been linked to the Pelicans. I don't like, are you what
are you getting? Like unless they're giving you Herb Jones, who's not really
three he that connected on his Pelicans says I told me, well, look
what he shot from three from sit It's like, yeah, it was on
two attempts a game like that's not you're getting into the same Isaaco Coro shot
really well from three for most of last year and then that tapered off.
So it's it's jet. You very rarely see the big for wing trades,
although we just saw one with basically smart for Perzingius, like who really wants
Jared Allen and is then giving you what you need? And then also I
would say, I know it was a problem with him. The other thing
this team kind of needed now was a I don't want to say a backup
big, but like someone who's gonna rebound and has guys. Yeah, I
just figured out the trade. It's probably illegal sign and trade Dante DiVincenzo and
Kavan Looney for Jared Allen and the Warriors just get Jared Allen and I just
you know that's terrible. No, uh yeah, no, I think is
well before we talk about targets scenario where you feel comfortable with Acorro for example,
and Lavert coming back and just hoping that one or the other figures out
how to slot into that that you know, starter role, like we've done
enough, right, we know enough. I think if you want to bring
them back with the intention of it, okay, we're gonna move them in
the middle of the sea, like okay, fine, but this is not
the theory of this team now. Is just Lavert's never gonna be that.
He played better defensively than I thought he would, and o'caro shot the ball
really well for most of last year, but we saw what's gonna happen in
the playoffs with him. It's they need that player on this team, and
it doesn't have to be super high end, but they need that player right
now. I don't Isaacaccorre the closest they come. I don't view him as
that player. Yeah, like Tory Craig doesn't move the needle, although he'd
probably be an upgrade. He moves the needle, which is maybe the end.
But who's more likely to stay on the floor is a three and D
guy in the playoffs carous Leavert, Tory Craig or Isaaca Coral. The answer
is Tory Craig. And it's not like Caros Laver is the better score ball
handler, but that's not what this team needs. Yeah, what do you
think about de Vincenzo? Even though I mentioned him jokingly because the mid level
might get him, he'd been enough shooter. Well it was last year,
but it's never been before, so that's the probably small then too. He
and yeah, he's really more of a one two defender than a three defender.
But I mean, like just looking down the list, yeah, I
don't it's not long until you get to Josh Richardson, whom you mentioned,
and it's like that's just not I'm not inspired by that. Trying to think
who else, Yeah, we've kind of gone through a lot of these.
You know what you could potentially work? Would it be? I don't know
it, Like, I don't know what when Brook wouldn't even do this?
Dory I Phinny Smith and Nick Claxton for Jared Allen. I think Claxton might
be close to as good as Allen. Yeah, Like, I mean I
don't think so. I don't think Brooklyn's saying yes to that, but yeah,
okay, Alex Caruso and Patrick Williams for Jared Allen. Ooh, that's
exciting. I would do that for the Calves. I think I would too,
which makes me think that Chicago probably wouldn't. Yeah. Hm, no,
I don't know. Do you have anything else on the Calves? I
mean, dude, this is again like you said something crazy. They're not
flipping Jared Allen for Tim Hardaway Junior, right, no way, making sure.
I'm just trying, like, who's the team that's coming in be like,
hey, we're giving a bunch of stuff for Jared Allen. Right,
I don't think Jared Allen's on a bad contract. I'm just saying I think
he's really good. We look, we apologize to Jared Allen at the end
of every single on these podcasts, right, But I just I don't know,
and he has to be the guy that went. We could agree on
that, right, wind Horses, that's the guy you're deleting. It's just
process of elimination, unless it's like unless it's a total little bombshell and it's
like, well, Donovan Mitchell has decided he really would like to get to
the NIXT now, you know, like that that doesn't seem like it's in
the cards. Yeah, it'll be fascinating to see. Fascinating to see how
irrelevant all of our analysis on this team. I will say, I'm not
worried about the Calves. I think people really blew out of proportion. There's
still their core, their base of their team is still so young. While
I do think they need three D players, like you know, the Dean
Wade stuff, Like you can't just have Dean Wade and Isaca Corn would expect
that to be. But they're they're so good. They're so good. I
think the expected outcome for a team giving huge minutes to guys as young as
Garland and MOBILEI was what happened like that. It would have been more of
a surprise if the Calves had gone on a deep run with guys that young
in major roles. Speaking of young, this team is even younger and they
are next alphabetically as well. The Detroit Pistons uh key free agents here Alec
Burks has a team option. Did he pick that up yet? I don't
know. I have not seen any news. Yeah, unsure Hamadudiallo, Roddy
McGruder, Corey Joseph extension eligible, Isaiah Stewart and James Wise and two of
their center log jam members. The Pistons do have about thirty million are almost
thirty million in cap space. Interesting to see if they become a salary dump
ground kind of seems unlikely based on how they've operated in the past see Boya
Magdanovich see their interest in Jeremy Grant again, which would be just a wild,
full circle thing. So no notable trade exceptions. This is a young
team that needs kind of everything up and down the roster. It's kind of
these same theory as you know, you don't draft for fit if you're high
in the lottery, I think free agency. If they do choose to spend,
you could kind of do it anywhere, so long as you're not doing
anything that you know minimizes say like Kate Cunningham's You know, I don't know
what you'd possibly do to put something in the way of Kate Cunningham or makes
you know you don't want to take Jade and Ivy's reps away things like that.
But what do you see as their needs? What do you who do
you like as as potential options for them. I think they need like wings
and shooting. It would be nice if they could get them in the same
player, but they've been linked heavily and I'm not as against it. I
think when you look at how many big types are on the struster, with
Isaiah Stewart and James Wiseman, Marvin Bagley and Jalen Durhan, does paying Cam
Johnson make a ton of sense. He's played for Monty Williams before. He's
exactly what He's one of the best off motion scores in the league, has
a little bit of a floor game that you can attack with. I still
view him as more of a pure four than someone if you're gonna want to
play at the three, and then even things could get dicey defensively. If
he's your four and Boyan Madonovitch is your three, then you're also probably playing
with so much size because Jayleen Duran will be your five, Kay Cunningham will
be on the court, and then you have Jay and Ivy. I love
that lineup. I'm not gonna lie. I love that, But then it's
like, okay, well, where does a star Thompson fit into this.
I'm just of the mind not that I don't care about the fit. You
don't have a big I like Jayleen Duran, there's not a big on this
roster that if you think someone is a great long term fit or that they're
going to elevate the performance of Thompson, Ivy and Cunningham. There's not big
on this roster. I've he was untouchable or that you should plan around,
and so if you want to go you view him as gettable or even if
you're just gonna blow up the price tag for Brooklyn, Yeah, you go
give Cam Johnson a four year, one hundred and twenty million dollars off or
sheet if you need, if you feel a client to do so, where
do you land on that for them? Oh I am in the business of
giving Cam Johnson. Well, then for you know that you think Cam Johnson's
worth sixty million dollars a year, we've that. But for this team specifically,
I love I don't have any problem with the fit. I think you
just hope that one of those fives like Stewart, I think is certainly the
most known commodity, but I would argue he probably has the lowest ceiling,
although Wiseman's running out of time to prove that true. I have no problem
with Johnson just as a straight four alongside any of those guys. And if
you move one of one of them down the line, fine, if you
just hang on to all of them and assume one will be hurt and another
one, you know, just flops and you develop the third. Like there's
again hiring money Williams and paying a bazillion dollars and some of the other things
like keeping and extending by bogne of and you know, not trading Alec Burks
at the deadline last year. Like all these things suggest that the Pistons are
looking to win or at least win more. But I just look at the
roster and it's like Cunningham's played a year. Ivy, you know, growing
pains all over the place last year. Thompson, I think, is probably
going to be even rawer than I will be more raw than Ivy, like
you've got all It's honestly, this is a team I I view, if
I were running it, I'm taking on bad money in that into that cap
space with picks attached. I'm just kind of throwing all these young guys out
there and kind of seeing what it looks like. So yeah, I mean
that makes for bad pod because we're you know, I'm not going to look
at a bunch of free agents and trade options. But I kind of just
like the idea of looking at this for what it is, which is a
rebuild that is like not far along because you don't really know that much about
anybody that you have. That's not how Pistons are treating it. I think
they're very much looking to start winning more, kind of like Houston, do
you. I was gonna say that the contract they gave Monty made me think
that they're not operating on this accelerated timeline. I think the contract it would
have been more noise with the Thompson pick if they were more worried about I
think a lot of Pistons fans when I got were worried that they might not
have taken the remaining Thompson brother if he was on the board. Well,
I mean he was gonna be on the board because it would be viewed as
too long term of a play. Well, why then are they keeping veterans
through the deadline and things like that. It's just I think you think,
I mean, I think it's I think it's looking at it from the perspective
of how can we make the lives easier for the development. They're already trying
to play with two bigs at least we think maybe Cam Johnson gets them away
from that, which, hey, there's value in that. But having shooting
just in the form of Alec person by a Bogdanovich, you could if you're
saying they should take the long term around like I would still be targeting.
I don't care if I have to overpay them, bring me shooting just to
open up the floor for all these guys who need it now, Kade Jay
and Ivy or Sir Thompson's way his jump shot. I trust it more than
on men's. I don't know where you're landing on that, But watching them,
maybe I'm neither Russe have gotten into it too much. I don't mean
no, I no, no, I think that's I think that's right.
But but that's to say I don't trust either of them much at all so
far. So by that logic, then it's Cam Johnson for sure. That
makes a ton of sense in terms of free agency. I mean, then
then you're but as as far as like guys you could spend a significant amount
on, there aren't a ton of like as you say like that, Yeah,
I mean, but then other than the playoffs, he's like not always
the most reliable three point shooter. Well he shot under thirty two percent in
the playoffs this year through Yeah, okay, so full stop, he's not
reliable. I mean he's taking like nine per thirty six minutes and he's coming
around like him and Bowyan open up the floor. I think I'm with you
in the sense that can you check two boxes where it's okay? If the
Mavericks we're looking to get off Tim Hardaway Junior, do we get compensated and
get a shooter that way type like I would if i'm them, I'm not.
I would make clear I'm not going after They've been linked to Jeremy Grant,
Chris Middleton. I'm not going after those guys because I don't think they
provide enough three point volume. It is the cap relief they would provide the
heat for taking on Duncan Robinson enough to just get Duncan Robinson, Like I
don't know what the scenario is where they're talking about waving and stretching Kyle Lowry
to keep. So if you're talking about movement shooters and guys that are going
to open up the offense and draw attention away, I mean just give you
know, give the draft compensation or whatever. Like maybe you get a pick
with Don. I don't think Duncan. I think Duncan Robinson rehabed his value
enough to where it's like the Heat aren't paying to get off that contract.
But if you know, they also don't want to give him that much money
with their cap situation, so like just take him on, you know,
swing a deal for him because it's three years. Where it's like if you
could just pay Tim Harnaway Junior or Max Strus for two years, it just
feels a lot more palatable. Maybe there are Berton's destination. So we basically
both led on. We're okay with them throwing all the money at Cam Johnson,
but anyone else is just like sort of a no go. And then
another player Toronto's gonna be looking at cut money. Gary Trent Junior wouldn't be
awful here. You have a lot of you have like enough size with our
sure Thompson and Kate Cunningham to where. I don't know if you want to
play Gary Trent Junior j and Ivy with both of them, but you could
certainly like he could fit into the rotation, especially off the bench. Yeah,
I don't I like that. Fine, he's also like only seventeen years
old or something. Gary Junior is like the king of being super young.
Well, the other I mean, if we're gonna talk Cam Johnson, I
feel like the next gradation down is, you know, not quite as good
at any of it is PJ. Washington. If you're gonna throw an off
her sheet out there like he's he's not. Grant Williams feel that he provides
more reliable shooting. And Williams makes sense too. Yeah, that's you always
have to start with Cam and then you bumped down to the other the other
couple, guys, do you have any trade You mentioned Gary Trent because he's
obviously not opting out, But do you know do you know who would be
spicy trade target for them or you're not gonna answer, I'm gonna Barry Marketing
would be great on the team. He can't play small forward. Dawn were
already already discussed you'll play the four. That's true, I always I did,
just say none of their bigs are good enough to move someone off a
position. And when you're talking about shooters that maybe you could trade for,
I already mentioned Tim Hardaway, Junior, Gary Trent or even you know.
I don't think India you have to give up stuff for him, but Buddy
Healed, maybe the Nets are looking to get off Joe Harris. The other
name I thought of is just I don't Land already cut money, but like
what's going on with DeAndre Hunter and doesn't give you enough shooting to really think
about it? So you didn't want to pay some deeg Bay do you want
to pay you know, DeAndre Hunter on his contract? But there are I
think there are teams that will be looking to move contracts that would provide Detroit
with shootings where I think they're straddling the lines that we're saying both of them
should where you might be more nuclear rebuild than I am at this point.
But yeah, no, I think that's fair. We move on now to
the Indiana Pacers. George Hill and O Shaper set a free agents. Terris
Halibert already Jesus happened so fast, eligible for his U as much as you
want to pay him under the CBA, I would pay him all the money.
Aaroni Smith also eligible for an extension. So this is another cap space
team. There's a handful of them here, about thirty two million in space.
They don't have any notable trade exceptions. So another team, although I
think we both probably agree they're a little further along, or they have a
better sense of what kind of team they're going to be rebuild wise, then
say Detroit or I'm trying to think who else we mentioned the theoretically blown up
Chicago Bulls or somebody They have a better idea of who they are than the
Chicago Bulls do. Let's be honest, Yeah, which is to say Haliburton
runs the show. We have some guards and small wings that we like,
and Miles Turner is our space or at the five like not a bad you
know, starting point, even if the ages are kind of out of whack
a little bit. So is this a team then that should be spending this
money or is this another team that I'm just gonna listen to you talk and
then say I'd rather take on a bad contract. I think they should spend
it, because especially now like they're Utah, mem theoretically could have been vying
for a lot of the same free agents. I don't think they will be
anymore, and you're not. There are free agents like you look at a
Grant Williams or PJ. Washington that like kind of fit their timeline, and
so it's not you're not accelerating too much. I will say one of my
favorite targets for them now though, and I'm not sure if them drafting Jarress
Walker impacts this for you at all. I like the idea of someone who,
rather than playing the four and then being able to slide up to the
five, you have them make a play the three or on the four,
And so I meanly think like, I don't know if they are Kyle Ko's
my team, but Harrison Barnes even if you don't want to break the bank
or I think my favorite target for them now is officially Jeremy Grant, because
if the Blazers aren't going to pay him or they don't want to give him
like that amount of money, he can play the three or the four works
alongside in a jaris Walker, Miles Turner front court. Maybe a little bit
older than you want, but look, there's a chance, like they were
pretty competent when they had their entire stable of personnel available last year, and
like you said, they have a better theory of how they can play,
specifically on offense, and it definitely maybe not as much on defense, but
like Detroit is kind of searching. It was definitely searching for itself all year
defensively last season. And so I don't think they need to look at this
urgently that we have to spend this money. They could be a cap dumping
team, but they also feel like so year by year in the sense where
they don't know if they're going to continue rebuilding or not, that they might
be less inclined to take on a multi year deal then like if it's Tobias
Harris and they're giving up, you know, Daniel Tyster to buy like something
stupid, like that's not even work, like TJ McConnell and Daniel Tyster,
Tobias Harris. Yeah, they might do something like that because Tobias Harris comes
off the books. But I don't know if they're going to be as open
to the multi year salary dumps as other teams, which makes me think yeah,
maybe they could come into play for some of these free agents that would
actually be a good fit, but maybe they don't quote unquote fit the traditional
rebuilding timeline, just because I don't think the Pacers are operating on such a
timeline. Yeah, I think I agree, shockingly because I always just vouch
for use your cap space for other things. And it's it's partly it's partly
because of what you've said, but it's it's just like the Steam needs a
four, and even like normally when you start talking about, well, what
about taking on Tobias Harris, Like Tobias actually would fit, like he would
make good sense positionally on this team, like a little on the small side,
I guess for a four. But it's I think that's fine, right,
Yeah, No, it's do especially nowadays, like it's it's fine.
So so, but you know that's that wouldn't be my first choice. I
think you you isolate which of the restricted fours you think you could get.
You start with its just like we talked about, you start with Cam Johnson
and move down the ladder and see you know which it makes sense or to
waste your waste, but to devote your cap space being held up on an
offer sheet. I think that's a way to go. Grant makes a lot
of sense, you know, I think I don't know how serious I was
or am about it, but like Draymond Green is you know, someone that
we've talked about at that spot, because Turner just affords you is a way
for you to afford having Green as a non shooter out there. I think,
you know, there aren't a lot of fives that you know, make
that fit as clean as Turner, so you could you could do all kinds
of stuff with like I think Dylan Brooks, even like you know, he's
too small be a full time for But again, it turn Turners like the
skeleton key. It's you know, at least in theory where yeah, you
got shooting at the five, so you can stomach having a non shooter at
the three or the four or whatever. And you know, I think getting
a guy that can defend, a guy that's physical, a guy that you
know shooting, isn't a total must to fit into the four. I think
that's the way you go with the cap space and if if that guy can
shoot, awesome, even better. But but I think the Pacers weirdly have
some flexibility with that spot. I guess what would also be a good barometer
for where they're at, And they could also go like lower end I mentioned
Harrison Barnes if they wanted to be, they could be natistible team. I
wouldn't hate that. Again, you can handle the non shooting, you know,
you can deal with it. Actually, we're day Chris Middleton here.
Either would be that's that's Chris Middleton. What's the matter with you? That
one's like, now, we're really not messing around with us, like we're
gonna spend because I mean, what's it gonna take to get Chris Middleton?
You're a way over thirty right per year and you probably you have to clear
more money. But maybe maybe his market isn't what it is, but he
did opt out, so it would leave me believe that there's something going on
Milwaukee there. Yeah, but I think it would be a good rometer for
how much faith they have in this core of what they're actually looking to do.
Which trade targets are they going to be linked to and they'll be continuously
linked to Ogianna Nobi and are they willing to give up stuff for Ogana Nobi's
the perfect fit. Yeah, But he is per ficked. I talk about
how he's overrated for most teams. Indiana is not here. Yeah, I
just don't know what you're not giving up Benedick Mathin for him. I don't
think they would give up Jarress Walker for him. I'm not a Jarres Walker
fan, but like the number would end up being the number eight pick,
like with four years left on his rookiet like no, I'm like, I'm
not. I don't know that I'm doing that for o Giana Nobe, Like
you have your own picks, you have some of like you don't have any
other teams as future picks anymore after this draft. So I just don't know
what the packages that they be. Will they have the cat flexibility to be
like, hey, we don't need to give you anything like tangible, But
I don't know, like Christaarte is not going to move the needle for Toronto
in those times, I know, And that was the best trade repols I
would get from patient shows Like do you think like Duarte and the Celtics pick,
we would get og And it's like no, I don't, like,
I don't think if that would do it? You wouldn't trade Matherin for for
O G would I trade, I mean, ODI would have to guarantee he's
coming back, Yeah, like he's gonna sign an extension or resign a free
agency. I probably need Like you know, I don't like, you're not
gonna get Grady Dick and Og for Benn Nick Matherin, but like they would
need to be I need to get something else out of that. You like
you and you need to be ready to compete now, and I just don't
I might be. Here's my take, I'm probably gonna give up Jared's Walker
for OG before I'm giving up Oh Maroo for don't well, I don't know
how I feel about Walker yet, but I like I think I would,
you know, you'd have to get You could just throw Tyson there and you
get there with the money mather and Tyson some kind of pick. I think
i'd probably, Hey, we'll take Ogs Walker, Like I don't know.
I mean, your point is right, though, like you're not just trading
for OG, you're trading for OG. And then also the right or I
mean obligation maybe is a better word of paying him on his next deal,
which you know, who knows what the market's going to be. But but
I that's that's that's ultimately they hang up with him. Is It's kind of
like one Siakam at least came out and said, I guess like, I'm
not resigning if you trade me OG maybe that way too. It's just more
of an implied than an explicit threat. Can we take a moment before we
just list off some like lower end wing type targets for them and appreciate that
we're entering an off season devoid so far if Myles turn or trade rumors kind
of nice, right, kind of nice? And now John Collins officially like
Miles Turner kind of passed the towards to John Collins, and then John Collins
has passed towards two game would be there. It's gotta be dame because Brett
brat Beale's off the books too, Like we really have lost several of our
have to talk about this guy again. Trade trade candidates. I mean,
I think Towns is probably gonna climb the Who's next up? Yeah, that's
what we should do. I'll say that that's good content, and that's a
whole pod. Who's next on the we have to talk about them every three
days? Trade candidates, I will say, just quickly, like, this
could be a Derek Jones junior team. Do they take a look at Jay
Crowder if you're looking for I don't want to say lower end, but like
not as glitzy trade targets Jay Shawn Tate don that. I'm just gonna throw
herb Jones in here if we want to, if we want to reboot the
Miles Turner trade rumors, will just pencilin herb Jones Larry Marketing if they were
like, hey, we'll give you stuff like you want to talk about Benn
Nick matherin you know, Larry Marketing. I don't know how Jared Walker get
impacts that, but that you could play those two together with Miles Turner.
So I feel like the Jazz and all their fans are wondering why you keep
trying to trade marketing and they're not happy about this. Elton Johnson would be
someone I kicked the tires onto, like what do the Spurs want to do
with him? But yeah, those are some other names to consider. Do
you want to take us through there's next team in the alphabet, yes,
well in the last team in this division, so this makes it easy.
This is the Milwaukee Bucks. It's funny if you're like Charlotte Hornets, Brook
Lopez and Chris Middleton and Joe Ingles and Jay Crowder and Jevon Carter are all
free agents. The first two of those matter the most U in a big
way. Lopez and Middleton. Jannas is extension eligible. I'm not sure what's
going to happen there, wouldn't don't don't expect an extension. I think he
was just he needs longer than two years. Like he's just like there's no
reason for him to sign it. It's just like it's like that argument of
like what's the point if he like tore every neeligam and he had tomorrow He's
getting the max like the second he comes back out. So there's like that
out there. It's I'm complimenting him. He's that good that it wouldn't matter.
He's still gonna get yep, you know what I mean. So this
is a second Apron team. We have not had one of those in this
division. I don't think as I scroll up, so extremely limited in their
options. Those limitations will only intensify as we go forward, and all of
these ridiculous salary matching and buy out and draft pick and this, that and
the other mid level evaporating exceptions come into play down the line. And that's
all relevant because if you bring Lopez and Milton back at market rate salaries or
even slightly below that, you're still just your second apron get comfortable Bucks.
So they have minimums to offer. That is going to limit our options for
suggesting free agency acquisitions. But that's where they are. So what does this
team need? And again just for a refresher, because it feels like it
happened. You know ten years ago, bounced in the first round by an
eighth seed, had some real like concerning offensive decline from Jannis at Someone's adding
defensive too, like the shooting just isn't there. The free throw thing persisted.
All the bad Bucks things where the offense stalls and they don't have enough
they can't create enough good shots happened. So also this team won a title
like not long ago with this same honest one was dealing with the back injury
to yes, right, that's that's fair. Have to mention that. But
so there is some consternation. I think that maybe like the window for this
team is is open, not as wide as it might have seemed like certainly
when they wanted. It seemed like Yannest was just going to stomp the whole
league forever. Maybe that'll still happen, but that's all to say there.
This team has real needs and really does not have a lot of avenues to
pursue those or to pursue solutions. So if you're what's your where are you
starting? Like what we gotta we gotta find someone to do this for us
next year as the Bucks just half court like outlets and I'm talking and by
outlet I mean spacing and can make a decision with the ball in their hands
on the floor. Yeah, I think that's probably the biggest thing. And
you're not going to get a nuclear solution or a seismic solusion to that.
I know we've seen some like Drew Holiday hypotheticals floating around, but my expectations
would be, Look, you start this off season where Brook Lopez and Chris
Midlton, I don't know what team is out there that's gonna pay you.
You go into Chris Middleton's free agency eyes wide open. If he's opting out,
it's like he's gonna get thirty five million or whatever is they'll pay him.
Is there a number where you're like, well, we're not gonna pay
thirty five year old Brook Lopez. I mean that's the crazy thing is for
Middleton and Lopez, I think there are numbers and the problem or there should
be numbers, but I don't think the Bucks are in a position to say
we can't go that high. And those those guys have massive leverage, not
just not from the outside but internally where it's like you can't like it's not
just like well, Middleton's aging and you know long term, it's it's like,
no, no, you need him next year and like basically everything after
that doesn't matter. And he knows that. So if he wants to drive
a hard bargain and Lopez too, I think Lopez has like a broader market
just because he won't cost as much and I think it's just easier to fit
him. He also might have more leverage as I think this is not a
knock against Jonathan and the Kubo, but you need that floor spacing big who
doesn't compromise your defense alongside and while you have Bobby Portis who comes pretty close
to meeting that it's just broke up, is just finished run upper. Yeah,
I mean, him and Portis are have one similarity, which is that
they're tall and can shoot. Everything else is different and in favor of Lope.
Like so all that's all to say, like it kind of almost depends
on like how big of an asshole does Lopez and not that you should it's
not that's the wrong way to put it, Like how hard a bargain do
you want to drive? Because your value to this team is like off the
charts and it doesn't even matter if there's another suitor out there. You can
just be ridiculous in your demands and like do they want to do that?
You know? Do they want to make it hard on Milwaukee? So I
don't know what the number is, like if it's just in a vacuum.
I don't like the idea of giving either of these guys more than maybe Middleton
like two plus one Lopez two plus one on that's as long as I'd want
to go. Lopez, I could you could talk me into twenty million a
year. I think he's probably worth that. I don't know if the Bucks
are willing to pay that. And Middleton even thirty thirties, probably my ceiling
starting at thirty and you have your normal raises. But that's like, that's
a lot, Like I can't what was his player option for wasn't his player
offs like forty? It was forty, But you're theoretically gonna get you know,
to two points something x that over three years if you're him, I
mean, maybe you feel different about Middleton. I just think at his age
and like his game should age well like and but I just think he's at
a position where typically you're demanding shutdown defense or like you know, primary you
know, defensive option guy, and he's not really that anymore. So it's
the Bucks are in a tough spot, Like I don't I don't envy.
I mean, you have Jannis and you probably will contend, but like,
financially this gets rough very quickly. Yeah, and like you're operating on we
can make additives in free agency via the minimum if you're keeping Middleton and Lopez,
which by the way, I expect him to do, and I don't
what else are they supposed to do. They're still gonna be really good right
now. And look, I don't know that I have there's a number I'm
not paying Middleton the match, But unless they're really worried about his knee issues.
As you said, his game should age well and he's just so important.
But I'm looking at free agent wise, Utah wants an hobby would be
a great fit here. Someone who can knock down to three. You don't
really want to putting the ball on the floor too much, that we can
do that a little bit. I have Javonte Green. Is he a good
enough shooter, but he gives you a lot defensively, And look part of
what goes into this when you're looking at kind of you know, I have
o' Shabbersett as well, t J. Warren as a flyer. What's happening
with Jay Crowder? He's leaving. It sounds like because he was like,
I don't know why they traded for me. I guess they can come over
the top with an offer. But it doesn't sound like he didn't play a
ton in the playoffs. He did hit threes while he was there during the
regular season, So like that kind of matters to this. But it's harder
to fill. It's easier to find shooting with the minimum probably than it is
for that kind of secondary creation. I have Shake Milton. This would be
a good Shake Milton destination. That's like it. Like when you're talking about
their minimums, I don't know who else in the point guard market, Like
Dennis Shrewder too expensive and I don't again, I don't think he provides enough
spacing, Like Dennis Smith Junior is probably going for more than the minimum,
and will he shoot it well enough? Corey Joseph, Reggie Jackson, Jordan
McLaughlin, Derek Rose, like, these are just names that are wildly uninspiring
and you're not gonna get into trade. Jones business I owed to soon move,
not even a good enough shoot. You're not getting him for the minimum.
Anything they make, any substantiums they make, they make via trade,
and like their best package is basically, well, we can start step laddering.
Maybe I'm sure they would move. Bobby Portis in the right deal.
The Lopez's age might make that tough, but you step out of your way
with salary, Marjehan bow Champ and one first round pick, and I just
don't know. I'm not saying you have to give up all of that for
the guys that I listed, but some trade targets that's bring to mind.
I still think Polyanovogdanovich might make this team a favorite to come out of the
that would be I don't know if that's spicy, but if you inquire boy
and Madanovitch, I'm picking. I don't care what Boston just did. We
have to wait to see what Miami does. I'd pick Milwaukee to come out.
I might Pickwake and come out of these anyway. So that's my that's
my guy for them stuff. I think he is just perfect for what they
need. Also, Royce O'Neill, Dorian Fitty Smith, Alec Burks. What
does it take? And I'm only listing him. I know he said he
wants to retire there, but they have sixteen players under contract right now.
Ken Rich Williams were great, Yeah, that might be. I'm a Buddy
Healed would be his number and Boyan's numbers a little bit difficult to get to.
But like when you start using content and Grayson Allen like, you're kind
of you're kind of there. I don't know if anyone else springs to mind,
but you are at the point where some people might say, well,
I'm not giving up a twenty twenty nine first round pick for boy or Buddy
Healed. Uh, you protect it, But yes you are. Yeah,
I think you are why are you not. I had a couple others that
jumped out of me, like I think, I mean, do you take
a shot at Danny Green? Like do you want to just see if if
you know, he can be here West Matthews where he thought he was totally
washed and then maybe had a little bit left Damian Lee, I mean,
the Suns are gonna want to bring him back. We're just talking minimum guys,
right, Like, I don't think it's getting you Homadu Diallo. Maybe
you see if like does Will Barton have anything left? Does Terrence Ross have
anything left? Like We're really just trying to find guys that can You need
to see if you're gonna go, if you're gonna go like the Danny Green
Terrence Ross stuff, it's like, okay, guys who are proven they can
be off ball, shoot like have Adu Diallo if you get afford just to
know, Yeah, I'm I'm with you. If it's tough, let's see,
has it got anything else on the bucks? You want to wrap this?
No, why don't you take us out of here? All right?
Thanks everybody for listening. As Dan mentioned at the top, and as you
should just have like burned into your brain By now. Follow us on all
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I think that's going to cover it. So, as always, we close
with a shout out to the one and only Frank Milakina an apology to Jared Allen