WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:06.440 You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand KFI AM six forty. You 2 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:09.640 have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. 3 00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:12.599 If you're new to my show, I have a PhD in clinical psychology. 4 00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:16.280 I'm a psychology professor, but I am obsessed with the science of love. 5 00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:19.199 Producer Kayla, Do you know why I'm talking so fast? Because you're so 6 00:00:19.239 --> 00:00:23.000 excited because now you're engaged. No, because I said a double latte late 7 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:25.440 at night. Oh my goodness, you're going to be all night. I 8 00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:29.839 know. It is like my cocaine, caffeine, caffeine, this lid. 9 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:33.280 I know. But my Julio took me for a really long hike today and 10 00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:35.880 I was feeling really sleepy, so I said, you have to stop at 11 00:00:35.880 --> 00:00:41.039 the Starbucks. Please get me up. Okay, So, if you missed, 12 00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:45.039 uh, the cliffhanger that really wasn't a cliffhanger last week on my show. 13 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:50.280 Yes, I did a brave, crazy, wild thing, a gender 14 00:00:50.359 --> 00:00:56.600 non conforming thing, and I proposed to my boyfriend Julio, live on the 15 00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:00.679 air. He swears he did not know at all. Well, if you've 16 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:03.880 not seen the video, Kayla's going to post it on the KFI website. 17 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:07.480 So you just go to kfiam six forty dot com, start searching doctor Wendy 18 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:10.879 Walsh and she's going to post it's on my YouTube right now. Uh Kaylos, 19 00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:14.640 you can grab it from there the link, and thank you Tony Sorrentino, 20 00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:15.959 who edited for me. He was here with the three camera shoot. 21 00:01:17.159 --> 00:01:21.879 I said to Julio later, you didn't suspect that there were four other people 22 00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:26.280 in the studio and a three camera shoot and lights and he goes, no, 23 00:01:26.439 --> 00:01:29.640 I just thought that's what you usually do because you're making your TikTok videos 24 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:33.920 and so touch so and I and so. There is this dramatic pause. 25 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:37.799 You should check it out where I my heart goes into my throat and I'm 26 00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:42.000 losing it because he doesn't respond at first, and then he laughs, which 27 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:46.200 makes it worse. But he explained to me later because I explained to him 28 00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:48.920 this other story, you know, the ruse of why I was really getting 29 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:52.159 him on the show. This story was going to take five or six minutes, 30 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:53.599 and I said, radio is a tight time, honey, we should 31 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:59.319 rehearse it. So we rehearsed our pre segment you know, like our red 32 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:04.359 herring say beforehand, and we rehearsed it like three times, and so he 33 00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:07.159 said. The reason why he paused is his brain said, wait, we 34 00:02:07.199 --> 00:02:10.800 didn't rehearse this question. Oh what's the answer? What answer does she want 35 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:14.599 me to go? Oh? Oh, it's actually the question. So there 36 00:02:14.680 --> 00:02:17.039 was this dramatic pause where I lost my mind. But anyway, Julio and 37 00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:20.960 I are now engaged. And let me tell you I've always said this, 38 00:02:21.639 --> 00:02:30.840 the world organizes itself socially around couplehood, and relationships are a bridge between tribes, 39 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:36.280 and there is a ripple effect that kind of goes everywhere when people make 40 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:38.199 this big kind of commitment to themselves. We are planning a wedding for next 41 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:43.680 summer, so you know, we had to tell his family. I posted 42 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:47.719 it all over social media. We immediately get like dinner invitations from other couples, 43 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:51.919 right, because now we're admitted fully into the couple world. We've been 44 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:53.800 together three and a half years, we lived together, but now it's sort 45 00:02:53.840 --> 00:03:00.000 of legitimate in some social way. Right. But then I always say, 46 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:06.840 the unconscious knows all. He gets a ping from an ex girl who used 47 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:09.199 to have the hots for him. I get a ping from an old playboy 48 00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:13.080 boyfriend, and you know what I do. I do not answer that text. 49 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:15.960 I call right away and go, hey, guess what. I just 50 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:19.639 got a gaged last night. I did, and he I started rambling away 51 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:22.599 about it, what happened or whatever, and he's, well, I gotta 52 00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:25.080 I gotta go, because you know, I was just texting you, letting 53 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:28.280 you know I'm gonna be in town next week. I didn't know about this, 54 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:32.120 so I'm gonna call you right back. Okay, that was three days 55 00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:36.039 ago. He didn't call me back. Okay, he didn't call me back. 56 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:39.719 So anyway, I do want to say what I did was a gender 57 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:46.280 non conforming thing by proposing to my boyfriend. It is not for everyone to 58 00:03:46.360 --> 00:03:50.360 do. This is not a message to women out there to run out and 59 00:03:50.360 --> 00:03:53.719 propose to your boyfriend. Let's think about what a proposal represented in history. 60 00:03:54.319 --> 00:04:00.080 It was always the women making the decision, still has been, and and 61 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:04.759 men courted a woman to try to get her hand in marriage. Right, 62 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:10.960 he was winning the prize. Now something's flipped because we have an oversupply of 63 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:14.080 successful women in the mating marketplace and women don't like to date down So as 64 00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:19.040 a result, they're scrambling for the small population of commitment oriented men. So 65 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:25.279 women feel like they're the ones doing the chasing and trying to quote unquote get 66 00:04:25.399 --> 00:04:28.439 the proposal. I mean those who want a long term commitment. Not everybody 67 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:32.399 does. Okay, just gonna say that. So the way you do it, 68 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:38.079 though, is you have to behave like a prize, not somebody who 69 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:42.319 is needy and wants to be married. In our case, if you watch 70 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:46.959 the whole segment, it was part of my Worthy of Love special. Julio 71 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:53.279 has a dark past and some people might think he is not worthy of love. 72 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:58.680 So in our case, my gender non conforming proposal was to say to 73 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:03.120 him, you are are worthy of love and I would love to stand by 74 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:06.680 you for the rest of our lives. So, by the way, it's 75 00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:10.519 really easy. We were looking at like, what kind of what do you 76 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:13.120 call wedding vows we're gonna do? Because you know people write their own they 77 00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:15.120 say all this stuff, right, eh, I said, no, let's 78 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:18.480 do this traditional. We're talking about sickness, health till deathtress part you know 79 00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:21.639 that kind of thing, wealth, not whatever, poor, wherever it goes. 80 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:26.079 Because I said, we're at that stage of our life where it's actually 81 00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:30.240 going to be till death dress part. I mean, listen, even the 82 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:32.800 most monogamous of humans, because of our very long life expectations, may have 83 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:35.839 two or three long stints of monogamy in their life. So it seems really 84 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:40.439 funny to me when I do go to a wedding and a twenty five year 85 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:43.560 old says, until death drew us apart. I'm like, no, that's 86 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:46.879 not going to happen. Okay, I know that, but that's natural and 87 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:50.079 it's normal, and it's okay, this is your starter husband, lady. 88 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:55.240 Okay. Anyway, in our case, we're at that age, we're facing 89 00:05:55.279 --> 00:06:00.040 death's door. I have such a dark sense of you, and Julio tells 90 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:03.199 me all the time that I do. But I do love Doug Kreamer. 91 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:08.199 It's so much fun. Listen. A relationship is an exchange of care, 92 00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:12.600 and marriage has different meanings to different people at different stages of their lives. 93 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:15.040 You may choose not to get married, by the way, I had a 94 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:18.839 big white Catholic wedding for my mother in like nineteen eighty one or eighty two. 95 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:21.439 I don't even remember. By the way, Kaitly, you know what 96 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:26.240 I realized today, what you know what my wedding anniversary is. When I 97 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:29.079 was like twenty one years old, that big white Catholic wedding for my mother. 98 00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:32.319 Please don't tell me it's December third, it's today. Oh I thought 99 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:36.279 it was an in proposable hilarious but it was close enough anyway, it was. 100 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:42.279 It's today, happy universary. I remember his name. It's forty years 101 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:46.879 I know. I didn't take his name, and that was in the early 102 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:49.079 eighties, so clearly I was like, not, yeah, it wasn't gonna 103 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:53.920 happen anyway. As we get older. So in our early when we're young, 104 00:06:54.199 --> 00:06:59.920 we need marriage because of those vulnerable years of pregnancy, nursing, nurse 105 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:03.560 raising small children. That's a time when you really need a strong, secure 106 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:09.319 base. You also need it as you get older because you're exchanging real physical 107 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:13.199 care. I go to his doctor's appointments with him, He goes drinking with 108 00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:15.920 me, he drives me home. We need to physically care for each other. 109 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:18.759 He doesn't drink at all, which is great. I have a designated 110 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:23.839 driver for the rest of my life. Anyway. I love my Julio. 111 00:07:23.879 --> 00:07:26.560 It's very excited being engaged, and it's fun being a little bridezilla for a 112 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:30.959 minute and organizing a wedding, and thank you for all of you who have 113 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:34.879 been supporting us. Okay, I do want to say so there's another speaking 114 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:39.800 on the There's the getting together side and there's the breaking up side. Right, 115 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:44.839 So, if you've been following the news at all this week, at 116 00:07:44.839 --> 00:07:48.199 the iHeart jingle Ball red carpet, we saw not a love triangle, we 117 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:53.639 saw love square, a love square. You know a love square is you 118 00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:59.160 know. Amy Roebuck and TJ. Holmes were actually very looking virus smitten at 119 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:03.560 the Iheartball, because they did they came to La first and then they went 120 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:05.199 to New York. They're really in front of those cameras, right. This 121 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:11.120 is the couple who co hosted which morning show is ABC Good Morning America, 122 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:13.399 Good Morning? And did they like get fired and then come back or something? 123 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:16.759 They did get fired. And I will say my friend, my co 124 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:18.360 hosts of my podcast, Patty Ish Kayla, was at the jingle Ball because 125 00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:20.319 she works for kids, and she said that she did see them on the 126 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:24.240 red carpet. His hand did not leave her. But oh the lovey doveness 127 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:31.399 was real, but like not even waste Okay, so here's the thing. 128 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:35.919 Now. The latest news is that their exes, which are Andrew Shue and 129 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:41.080 his ex is Merrily Fiberg. I think she's an immigration attorney. So she's 130 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:45.559 a smartass attorney. He's an actor with a bunch of awards behind him. 131 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:52.320 They're now dating. Can you imagine? So think of it this way. 132 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:56.240 This couple goes and has an affair their workplace, you know, work my 133 00:08:56.320 --> 00:09:01.879 work wife, my work husband turned into work bedroom. Whatever they get together, 134 00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:05.440 their exes have to call each other to go. Can you believe this? 135 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:13.840 And in their grieving actually fall in love. So now, I mean 136 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:16.320 the big question. I was on Inside Edition this week and they asked me 137 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:18.639 what about the children. I'm like, well, you know, I think 138 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:20.840 is actually better than a stranger. Divorce and bring a stranger in. They 139 00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:24.159 kind of know. They go to each household and they know the parents pretty 140 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:28.080 well. All of the I don't know. Anyway, when we come back, 141 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:33.639 I want to introduce you to a couple where that very same thing happened 142 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:37.679 to them. They found out that their spouses were having an affair, so 143 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:39.240 they called each other up. I'm going to find out how this came about. 144 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:43.000 They met each other and they ended up falling in love and getting married. 145 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:46.240 Wonder how common this is. You are listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls 146 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:52.320 Show on KFI AM six forty one live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're 147 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:58.759 listening to KFI AM six forty on demand I Am six forty. You have 148 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:01.879 Doctor Wendy Walls with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Wall Show. We're 149 00:10:01.879 --> 00:10:07.039 talking about the big news of Good Morning America. Co hosts who were married 150 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:11.600 to other people, fell in love at work, had an affair, got 151 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:18.000 exposed by the tabloids. Now we're learning that their exes are actually dating and 152 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:22.000 have been dating for the last few months. My guests are Carolyn David from 153 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:28.399 Montreal, Canada. Their website is the Sexylifestyle dot Com. Carolyn David, 154 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:31.559 Welcome to the show. Hey, Doctor Wendy, so nice to be chatting 155 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:35.440 with you again. Thank you for staying up so late for me. So 156 00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:39.799 I want to know about your love story. How did you guys get together? 157 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:43.639 Well, we kind of have a fun story very similar to the tabloid 158 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:50.000 story where our exes fell in love with each other. We were neighbors and 159 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:54.039 friends and the whole families. Both our family skied together at Jpeak and they 160 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:58.240 just got to know each other a little bit better, and right in front 161 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:01.639 of our eyes, they all also fell in love with each other. And 162 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:07.679 we had a big crisis and we went through two divorces together, and that's 163 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:09.799 how we got together. We became a couple, and now we're married. 164 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:16.440 Also, So let's talk about the trauma of this in front of your eyes. 165 00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:22.559 These two friendship couples who noticed first that the other two were making goo 166 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:26.039 goo eyes at each other. That was pretty obvious. We both saw what 167 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:30.559 was happening. They were taking the dogs for a walk and it was just 168 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:33.039 there in front of us. And so what did you do, Like, 169 00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:37.679 did you confront them on a ski trip or how did that all come down? 170 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:41.759 You know what we learned over the years that we were not very good 171 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:46.840 communicators back then, and that very well could be the basis of our relationships, 172 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:50.000 you know, breaking up. We did not have great conversations at the 173 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:54.519 time when it was happening, but even our friends and our family noticed that 174 00:11:54.600 --> 00:12:00.519 something was going on between them, and it was not so easy to them. 175 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:03.120 I don't know why. Yeah, and Carol, what was it about 176 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:07.759 David, that helped you fall in love with him? And when did it 177 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:11.799 happen like immediately afterwards at the same time, No, it was a very 178 00:12:11.799 --> 00:12:16.039 slow process for me. David was there, we were helping each other through 179 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:20.799 the divorces, so we definitely were friends and at that time we were friends 180 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:24.559 with benefits, but it took a little bit longer for me to fall in 181 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:28.200 love. But I remember the day, and maybe it was about a year 182 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:31.960 later after we've been together, but I do remember the day when I looked 183 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:33.919 at him in the morning in bed, he was still sleeping, and I 184 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:37.840 said, oh my god, I love this guy. And I told him 185 00:12:37.879 --> 00:12:41.039 at the time that this is like real love, like my heart was just 186 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:46.559 I don't know, expanding with the Grinch's heart. I really felt it that 187 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:50.320 one specific day. It was very amazing. So we need to stop and 188 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:52.759 go backwards. Let's just rewind that tape a little bit. So you're both 189 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:58.080 married to other people. They start having an affair and you decide you're going 190 00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:01.919 to be friends with benefit or were you guys all friends with benefits when you 191 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:07.320 were foursome? No, then all clarified. So after those guys told us 192 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:11.200 they were leaving us. David and I got dumped on the same day, 193 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:15.240 so maybe I missed it was a bad day. That was a bad day 194 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:18.639 for you. That was a bad day. And even though David and I 195 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:20.799 were friends already, as I told you, our couples were friends together, 196 00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:26.519 we spent a lot more time after that dumped day where we were consoling each 197 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:30.080 other's Hey, what are we going to do? And how are we going 198 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:35.200 to handle this? And the crisis management we did together, it all helped 199 00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:39.720 us. And it also helped that we were having great friends would benefit sense. 200 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:45.519 So you started sleeping together, how soon after you learned that your spouses 201 00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:50.320 were doing it that same day, the same day. So you got together 202 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:56.360 and in your moment of crisis, yes, reached out to each other for 203 00:13:56.480 --> 00:14:01.679 love and support and a little neuro hormones and we call it a little bit 204 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:05.840 of monkey sex that happened that night. Wow. And so how long have 205 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:09.799 you been together? Now? Eighteen years? Actually coming up as in our 206 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:15.600 anniversary was December twenty one. Wow. Well congratulations. Now, I should 207 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:22.879 say, in full honesty, you started your love relationship through a sexual relationship 208 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:26.159 and learned that the two of you really enjoy sex, and that you really 209 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:31.360 enjoy sex, even with other people, and so you have started a community. 210 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:35.200 You have a podcast, I understand with more than a million listeners a 211 00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:39.159 community of people in the swinging lifestyle. Is that correct? Correct? Absolutely? 212 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:43.200 We fell into the swinging lifestyle about two years into our relationship, so 213 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:48.679 we already had a very strong bond, and also we realized that our previous 214 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:54.840 relationships probably failed because we were in sexless relationships, which I think by definition 215 00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:58.480 of having sex less than ten times per year, but I had even less 216 00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:03.080 than that, So our bonds actually were starting to break, and it wasn't 217 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:09.120 not a surprise that we fell in love with other people. Was not a 218 00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:13.039 big surprise to us because our relationships were on the brink. Yeah, I 219 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:16.840 do want to say to listeners that human beings have the widest range of sexual 220 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:22.399 behavior of any primate species. And although sexless mayriorgs, I've never heard that 221 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:24.600 definition of less than ten times a year. Sexless to me means no sex. 222 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:30.559 But basically, some people have sex every day, some people have sex 223 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:33.679 once every three months, and if you're happy, that's all that matters, 224 00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:39.159 right, So frequency isn't necessarily an indicator of whether a relationship is healthy according 225 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:45.080 to science. But it sounds like your relationships definitely were a mismatch for you 226 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:50.679 guys, I would say so, and once we learned that are actually we 227 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:54.080 realize after getting together, like I told you, with that little monkey sex, 228 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:58.120 we realized that we missed it and that we kind of bowed to each 229 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:00.759 other that if this is going to be and good relationship, even as a 230 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:04.240 friend and the friends with benefits, that we want us to be good. 231 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:07.759 We had decided at the very early on that we wanted to have good sex 232 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:11.799 together and be very communicative because we were not on exes. Yeah, at 233 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:15.759 the end of the day, doesn't it all fall down to communication. Thank 234 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:18.919 you so much for joining me Carol and David. If you want to find 235 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:23.679 out more about them and their lifestyle, it is called the sexylifestyle dot Com. 236 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:26.879 Thanks for joining me on the Doctor Wendy Wall Show. When we come 237 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:33.559 back, I don't know if if these people's not the ones I just talked 238 00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:38.879 to, are the celebrities The celebrities exes justified their cheating with a certain psychological 239 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:47.039 trick. But according to science, those who commit adultery always rationalize their bad 240 00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:51.600 behavior. When we come back, let's talk about how they rationalize things. 241 00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:55.440 You're listening to the Doctor Wendywell Show on KFI AM six forty, were live 242 00:16:55.639 --> 00:17:03.519 everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to KFI ams on DEMANDKFI AM six 243 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:06.559 forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy 244 00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:08.720 Walsh Show. Somebody on Instagram just asks me, is this the same desk 245 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:11.799 that handle sits in? Yeah, it is you. I am in his 246 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.920 chair. Is this his share too, Kayla? Yep. In the morning, 247 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:18.279 he's in this chair. In the evening, I'm in this chair. 248 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:22.039 If you'd like to come into the studio live, you can come onto my 249 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:26.039 Instagram. The handle is at doctor Wendy Walsh For those who are watching an 250 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:30.160 Instagram though, if you want to download the iHeartRadio app. In the next 251 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:32.359 segment, I'll be taking your calls and if you want to be able to 252 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:34.440 hear the caller, you're both sides of the conversation, then you're going to 253 00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:40.880 need to listen on the iHeartRadio app. All right, what is adultery? 254 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:47.319 Does it need much of an explanation? Adultery is when a married person voluntarily 255 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:52.599 engages in a sexual relationship with somebody outside their monogamous marriage. It can be 256 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:56.519 called an extra marital affair. Now, I would also say that emotional cheating 257 00:17:56.759 --> 00:18:02.519 is a form of adultery, right, because nowadays people can have a work 258 00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:06.359 husband, workwife, they can have somebody online that they're disclosing lots of personal 259 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:11.240 things too. They're developing an intimacy, and that emotional intimacy is a slippery 260 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:17.119 sloop towards physical intimacy. But you know, nobody starts cheating by saying, 261 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:21.519 you know what, I'm a bad person and I'm gonna do a bad thing 262 00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:26.039 and I'm gonna hurt my spouse. Nobody thinks that way. In fact, 263 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:34.559 they have various psychological techniques to rationalize their well negative behavior. Here are some 264 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:37.160 of the things that people who cheat think, or some of all. They 265 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:42.799 may think, I deserve this. Some people rationalize that if they're not getting 266 00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:48.799 all of their needs met in their relationship, that therefore they deserve to get 267 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:52.880 any need met outside of the relationship. Hmmm. It's almost a kind of 268 00:18:53.079 --> 00:19:00.519 retribution this affair, right. That is not true because nobody is responded your 269 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:03.559 happiness. You know who's responsible for your happiness? You you're responsible for your 270 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:06.640 happiness, and you don't do it by having an affair. You're going to 271 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:10.640 be really unhappy afterwards when you get discovered. All right, Sometimes people are 272 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:12.559 rationalize I love it when I hear this light all the time. I don't 273 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:15.680 know, it just happened. I didn't do it on purposes, it just 274 00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:21.160 happened. No, No, affairs don't just happen. They involve many many 275 00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:25.720 steps, phone calls, techs, meeting in private places, having all kinds 276 00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:29.480 of chances to say no before your clothes are completely off. They are all 277 00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:33.440 kinds of steps. They don't just happen, like somehow your behavior is designed 278 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:37.920 by the cosmos and cube it up there and somebody manipulates you. No. 279 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:42.599 No, no, this is your behavior and your responsibility. Oh I love 280 00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:45.799 this one. Sometimes people will say, well, I didn't really have an 281 00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:51.039 affair. I just hooked up with an X, so it's not really a 282 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:56.119 new person. It's somebody had sex with before anyway, Like as if there's 283 00:19:56.279 --> 00:20:00.559 less value in the adultery if it's somebody whose body you're already familiar with. 284 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:07.240 I don't think your spouse would agree with you on that one. Then there 285 00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:10.440 are people who rationalize by basically saying, well, my spouse doesn't really care 286 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:12.920 about me, and they probably wouldn't even care if I cheat it. Yeah, 287 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:17.279 they make up these stories in their head that their spouse wouldn't even care. 288 00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:22.839 Oh and then there's the missed opportunity one the people who feel like this 289 00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:27.759 opportunity to cheat will never present itself ever again in my life. I mean, 290 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:33.240 I'm in Vegas on a business trip and I'm talking to a supermodel in 291 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:37.759 a bar. This is like winning the lottery. I have to buy the 292 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:40.440 ticket. There's no other time this could ever have. You know what, 293 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:45.640 You are going to be presented with opportunities to cheat every single day of your 294 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:51.759 life, or I love this one. You know, I'm just not monogamous. 295 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:53.759 I've just got to live with the fact that I'm not a monogamous person. 296 00:20:56.799 --> 00:20:59.960 Sorry, there's no such thing. You know what, if you're shopping. 297 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.880 Let's say you're out shopping and you see something that you really want to 298 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:07.119 buy, some very expensive sneakers, and you don't have the money to buy 299 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:10.920 those sneakers, do you steal them? No, you stop yourself because you're 300 00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:12.759 a moral person, right, you don't shoplift. Well, the same thing 301 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:18.799 with cheating. You're not a non monogamous person. Anybody can be. It's 302 00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:23.200 about controlling your behavior. So there's other research to show what kind of thoughts 303 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:29.519 keep people from cheating, because not everybody is unfaithful to their partners, and 304 00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:33.160 so these researchers try to identify the reasons why people don't cheat, and they 305 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:37.240 interviewed hundreds and hundreds of people. This research study was called the Reasons that 306 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:42.200 Prevent People from Cheating on their partners and Evolutionary account of the propensity not to 307 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:45.599 cheat. And here's what you need to hold in your head if you want 308 00:21:45.640 --> 00:21:51.680 to keep yourself from cheating. I love my spouse. Think about the benefits 309 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:56.599 of your relationship. Number two, I'd feels so bad if I did this. 310 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:02.119 Yeah, allow yourself to feel guilty. Guilty controls your behavior. Number 311 00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:07.920 three. If I cheat, my spouse might cheat too. What would it 312 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:12.279 feel like to be done to me? Number four? You know my spouse 313 00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:17.079 hasn't really done anything bad to me. I wasn't provoked in any way. 314 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:22.960 Number five consequences. Oh my gosh, my spouse would leave me and I 315 00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:26.680 wouldn't be able to see my kids. This would be terrible. Number six 316 00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:30.920 Oh, I'd feel so embarrassed. I would look like a jerk. Yeah, 317 00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:34.039 shame, social shame, or how about this one. I just don't 318 00:22:34.039 --> 00:22:37.519 want any drama in my life. I don't like drama. I don't want 319 00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:41.200 drama. That's a very good way to think, because it's drama when you 320 00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:44.960 get caught having an affair. And how about I'm going to look like a 321 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.240 really bad person and I'm going to lose friends. Yeah, hold those thoughts. 322 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:52.000 When we come back, I am going to take your calls. The 323 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:56.680 phone number is one eight hundred five two zero one KFI. That's one eight 324 00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:00.279 hundred five two zero one five three. Give me a call if you've got 325 00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:04.000 a relationship question. I'm happy to weigh in. You are listening to the 326 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:08.519 Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the 327 00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:15.960 iHeartRadio app. You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand KFI AM six 328 00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:18.920 forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy 329 00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:22.480 Walls Show. This is the time of the show where I am taking your 330 00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:26.279 calls. A reminder, I am not a therapist. I'm a psychology professor. 331 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:30.440 But I've written three books on relationships. My dissertation was on attachment theory, 332 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:34.240 and I am obsessed with the science of love. I've also had a 333 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:37.200 whole lot of life experience and I got some wisdom for you. Okay, 334 00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:41.000 if you'd like to call in, the number is one eight hundred five two 335 00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:45.400 zero one KFI. That's one eight hundred five two zero one five three four 336 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:49.039 okay, Producer Kayla, who do we have? First? We have Bruce 337 00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:52.839 with a question. We have Bruce. Hi, Bruce, It's doctor Wendy. 338 00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:57.559 Hi. Well, it's a pleasure. I've been a long time tad. 339 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:08.400 So I was living with the girls who murdered almost a year and she 340 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:12.119 she broke up with me because she said that her dad didn't like me. 341 00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:18.559 I'm a great guy. I you know, I did everything for her. 342 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:22.279 I have torn so I have like a lot of time on my hands. 343 00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:26.039 And so she broke up with me because her dad. She says she her 344 00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:30.559 dad didn't like me. And it's been for years and all of a sudden 345 00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:36.240 she hits me. Then she's like, my dad's dying from cancer, and 346 00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:38.240 I may see you want to see you? Can we hang out? And 347 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:42.519 this is like two days, she's like, can we can I see you 348 00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:45.119 later? Can we hang out? So? How do you feel about this? 349 00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:48.519 So? So just a summary. So you live with a girl for 350 00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:52.400 a year, she broke up with you because she said her dad didn't like 351 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:56.680 you. Now it's two years later, dad is dying of cancer and she's 352 00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:02.359 reaching out to you. How do you feel about that? Honestly, I 353 00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:04.759 have knowed. I mean, I love I love this dul I noticed in 354 00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:07.519 high school. I'm thirty five years old. I know is high school. 355 00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:11.160 Oh, I think she was like crush and you really think the only reason 356 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:17.960 she moved she moved out from you is because of her dad. Well that's 357 00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:21.200 what you're told me. You know, she was she had booken with her 358 00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:26.759 boyfriend. And I had just woken with a my girlfriend for like eight years, 359 00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:30.119 and we just kind of like into something. We started living together. 360 00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:34.079 We're living together for likeabolic ten you know what I mean? So do you 361 00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:37.759 want to give it a chance? Do you want to give her another a 362 00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:41.119 second chance? What do you think? I mean? I don't I don't 363 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:44.480 know, Okay, I mean, here's what I think. Okay, And 364 00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:47.799 I do want to say this real quickly because I'm also alive on TikTok and 365 00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:49.960 my TikTokers are saying, I can't hear the guest I know, download the 366 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:53.000 iHeartRadio app and you can listen to both sides of the conversation, all right, 367 00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:56.079 So that's why I try to summarize and repeat what they're saying. So 368 00:25:56.079 --> 00:26:00.400 she's reached out to you. You've known her since high school. You guys 369 00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:03.240 are thirty five years old. Now this is make or break time about whether 370 00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:07.119 you're going to have a family or not, and a family together. She's 371 00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:11.799 in a time of grieving because her and fear because her dad is has cancer 372 00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:15.920 and it may be terminal, and she's reaching out to somebody who she can 373 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:22.440 trust. Here's my advice to you, Bruce, get with her, like 374 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:26.599 stay with her, but be very aware that she could do it to you 375 00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:30.599 again. She may be using you as a secure base or secure force during 376 00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:33.200 this time. Or maybe she's saying, I made a big mistake. It 377 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:37.519 was only my dad who did this, and you are the love of my 378 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:41.759 life. I in my if it were me dating her, I would give 379 00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:47.200 her a second chance because this loss that she's potentially experiencing with her dad, 380 00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:52.759 maybe this motivating moment for her to finally come true. Now if you're in 381 00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:56.559 another relationship? Are you in another relationship? I love No? Okay, 382 00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:00.920 good because I don't want you breaking up with anybody for her, So I 383 00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:03.680 would say, give her a chance. Bruce. This sounds like a love 384 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:06.319 story that's meant to happen. You've known each other since high school. I 385 00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:08.160 think you should go for it. Thank you for calling. That's a good 386 00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:12.640 one. Okay, Producer, Kayla. Who do we have next? Hello? 387 00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:17.039 She was Virginia. Oh, Virginia, Hi, Virginia, It's doctor 388 00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:21.759 Wendy. Hi. Hi, how are you? What's your question? Much? 389 00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:27.200 Hi? I'm sixty one, I'm white, and I'm went out on 390 00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:32.440 a date with someone back in twenty twenty one, and he's black, and 391 00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:37.359 he was forty six and I was fifty nine. And he convinced me to 392 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:40.319 go out, and I went out and I was smitten with him, like 393 00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:45.200 I never gave it anyone so much younger. And we had this like love 394 00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:48.920 affair, and we did a lot of fun things together. We cooked, 395 00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:57.440 we talked, he talked about social issues like racism things, and then there 396 00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:04.400 were some red flags and I ended up finding out on December twenty December in 397 00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:08.799 twenty one that he was in a relationship for like eight years with someone and 398 00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:12.759 it was devastating. So I called him out on it. And wait, 399 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:17.079 so let me understand. You found out that he was in a relationship for 400 00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:21.640 eight years with someone while he was seeing you. Yeah, oh okay, 401 00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:23.720 so you called him out on it, and what did he do? And 402 00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:30.680 then it was? It was it was awful. So then I didn't talk 403 00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:33.960 to him for like a year, and then he set me flap like a 404 00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:41.720 message and flowers back in twenty twenty three this year in March in February, 405 00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:45.920 and he's like, I love you, blah blah blah, like I think 406 00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:48.960 about you all the time. And my son played basketball at Syracuse. He 407 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:53.200 said, he's watching the games he thinks of me. Yeah, went on, 408 00:28:55.240 --> 00:28:57.920 went on a couple, went on like four or five deps, and 409 00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:06.480 then it's just gone downhill, like we've went out and he's kind of nasty. 410 00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:08.759 But I don't know why that. I did you have sex with him 411 00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:14.000 in these four or five dates when he tried to rekindle. No, we 412 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:17.799 didn't have sex until like the fifth or sixth state. Okay, so hey 413 00:29:17.799 --> 00:29:18.680 got what he wanted. That's why I went downhill. Okay, you need 414 00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:22.640 to stop right there. This is a cheater. This is a man who 415 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:26.759 will say or do anything in order to get back with you. And the 416 00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:32.720 easiest way to pretend to get a short term relationship is or the the easiest 417 00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:36.319 way to obtain a short term relationship is to pretend to want a long term 418 00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:40.480 relationship. Stop it with the flowers. I don't care that anybody can order 419 00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:42.519 flowers. Stop it with him, like, oh, I'm watching your son's 420 00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:45.559 basketball game now, Oh I'm really thinking about you. You need to dump 421 00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:48.400 him, and you need to find a man who's not going to cheat on 422 00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:51.920 you, because if he cheated on her, he will cheat on you. 423 00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:56.039 I'm so sorry to deliver that terrible bad news, Virginia, but I have 424 00:29:56.119 --> 00:29:59.440 heard these stories over and over in my life. And if you're saying it's 425 00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:03.440 going down here, yeah, it's going downhill because he got what he wanted 426 00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:06.640 this time around, and he'll he'll start to come around again when he wants 427 00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:10.200 it another time, and he'll do the big displays of roses and stuff. 428 00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:12.279 Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. I'm sorry, Virginia. 429 00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:15.440 You got to cut him off. Okay, when we come back, I'm 430 00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.319 going to continue to take your calls. The numbers one eight hundred five two 431 00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:22.279 zero, one, five three four. You are listening to the Doctor Wendy 432 00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:26.720 Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. Were live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app 433 00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:29.559 KFI AM six forty on demand