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The Chilly Effect is sponsored by Wallstreet
Window dot Com and listeners like you yeah,

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and now in our media, y
o'lly twenty eighth day of December twenty

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twenty three, allegedly according to that
thing called the calendar, and this is

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the o'celly effect. So it is
Thursday Thursday, and that means usually speaking,

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I have either Mike Swanson or Larry
Hancock with me. And last week

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we had Larry on a Wednesday,
which was unusual, but we had to

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reschedule. This week we got Mike
Swanson, the man behind Wall Street Window

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dot Com, the author of the
War State as well as Why the Vietnam

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War, which is kind of funny
because I was looking at some historical films

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actually and noticed that Lyndon Johnson was
making this statement. I was wondering if

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this is where you got the title
from, because Johnson was, you know,

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doing his thing defending the war at
one point, going why Vietnam,

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Why Vietnam? And I'm thinking to
myself, I might recut pieces of that

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into a commercial for you. I
might do that just to get people aware

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of that book. Plus, it
is the first in a series of what

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might be three books, right Mike
about the Vietnam War. Is that right?

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Yeah, I'm getting ready to start
working on the next book, and

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I'm starting to conceive what it's going
to really be about or how to organize

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it. And basically I'm gonna the
last book, Why the Vietnam War Book,

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And I think what you're mentioning.
I didn't get the title from that,

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but there was a propaganda movie that
the government put out. I think

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it's called Why Vietnam or something like
that, and it features Johnson saying that

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over and over again. Yeah,
that's exactly it. Well, what it

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is is I got to it's a
National Archives set and and somebody sold it

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to me really cheap months ago.
Uh okay, and it's like six or

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seven DVDs, But it has many
of these propaganda films, some of them

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showing the Green Berets working with the
villagers here, the the among people here

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are the you know what I'm saying, like, and they're talking about the

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original thing where they were going in
there and they were training these guys to

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resist the Viet Cong et cetera.
Right, And they were doing these propaganda

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films where there's like, you know, a good government announcer going, and

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these people are here to make sure
that they can defend themselves against the terrorism.

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Yes, here's a timent. I
found it on YouTube. And so,

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yeah, I didn't get the title
from the book from from this.

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I'll tell you how I got that
in a second. But I saw this

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movie a long time ago. I've
been interested in Vietnam since the war,

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since I was a teenager, you
know, probably watched this when I was

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twenty years old or something. But
this was a documentary put out, you

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know, by the military, and
it basically features LBJ throughout it and asking

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that question over and over again,
and basically they're the movie is making the

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argument that this is just a replay
of Hitler all over again, and you

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got to stop them. And then
Ho Chi Minh is like Hitler. Basically

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is like Hitler, and these people
are terrorists. That's the other part of

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it. Yeah, yeah, which
looks like wow. No, And I

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look in our age group, Mike, let's be honest about something. In

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our age group, as teenagers,
as young kids, a lot of us

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were actually fascinated by the war.
Oh yeah, you know the movies about

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the war. Uh. There was
actually a comic book made right, which

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was called Yeah I was getting I
bought it, not getting it by buying

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the stores. But you know what
I'm talking about. The Vietnam was name

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of the comic book. It was
just But what I'm saying is that Vietnam

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was just one of those things that
was still being discussed even into the eighties

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and everything in our generation because as
I've said many times, it was still

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kind of affecting us. Well really, really, I would guess that,

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you know once, I mean,
it seems I mean, I can't remember

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what things were like when I was
one years old, but you know,

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I think the country, let's say, at some point probably before the war

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ended, probably seventy one seventy two, probably as Watergate was breaking right afterwards,

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kind of wanted to move on from
the war and just forget about it,

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and did that for a couple of
years, and then a bunch of

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Hollywood movies came out, which is
what we were consuming, and in the

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Platoon movie kind of may have been
the peak of all these Vietnam movies and

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talk oh yeah, yeah, three
year, you know, maybe two or

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three years following it. But there
was an attempt to but there was an

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attempt to reframe the entire thing,
Like Platoon was Oliver Stone movie. But

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I mean there were the Chuck Norris
movies Missing and Action, and then there

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was Rambo, which the first one
was called First Blood. You know,

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those movies caught fire popularity wise because
there was this mentality of like, let's

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see if we can rehabilitate the public's
ideas about the war. Right. And

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like I said, I think our
generation was kind of generally fascinated with it

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because there we were, you know, again initially affected by the war itself

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because our fathers, our grandfathers,
our uncles, whatever, went to the

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war. And then on top of
it, Hollywood was pumping out a whole

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bunch of things look at it differently. You know, they're actually going to

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go back, like Chuck Norris is
going and rescuing you know, prisoners,

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right, And we had gone through
that time period in the late seventies and

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early eighties when there were people talking
about, you know, there's still prisoners

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of war in Vietnam, they might
still be alive. Indeed, a guy

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named Ross Perot was involved in some
of those search efforts. Right. I

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mean, there's a whole thing going
on here from the end of the seventies

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into the beginning of the nineties,
where you know, again where Ross Paro

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ends up running for president. I'm
just saying bringing this my feeling perception is

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that when we were teenagers and Vietnam
was a big deal in all these movies

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and a lot of people our age
interested in it, I think that was

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the peak of the interest in our
lifetime. After Vietnam, Mu's say,

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in war and in America being at
war. So the reason I say that

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is, you know, nine to
eleven happens, and I don't think there's

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all these nine eleven movies are a
lot of real interest in it like there

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was in Vietnam. No, it's
not. I mean, it's continuous wars

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and we just take it for granted. And now there's a war in Israel,

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you know, right, it's just
like no, no, no,

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no, it's not the same kind
of event. And that's the thing is

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that, you know, again,
when we were reaching adulthood, what were

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we confronted with the first desert storm
deal and all that which was over really

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quickly, blink your eyes and it's
done. And the idea, right there

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is the relief that came with oh
my god, at least we're not getting

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into another Vietnam. Yeah, that's
right. And just because the lead up

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to that war, I mean people
can't. Yeah, sorry, go go

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ahead. I got a dog bark
and I got to let out of the

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room, So go ahead. Well, the lead up to the First Gulf

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War, you know, the six
months before it started, there was a

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lot of worry that it would be
like Vietnam in some ways, and it

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wasn't. And then when the second
war came, you know, if you

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out of that, a lot of
people would call you a trader. While

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people were actually doubting the first one
before it started, but the second one

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after nine to eleven, you know, if you were to even doubt that

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you were, you know, killed. Donahue doubted it. He was taking

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off the air. And then it
did turn out to be that in Afghanistan

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did turn out to be quagmires,
just like Vietnam was in regards to trying

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to accomplish any meaningful objective. But
this I'm looking up this why Vietnam thing,

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this propaganda movie, and you just
if you just look at it,

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it looks it's crude. You know, not many people like Lennon Johnson at

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all nowadays. You know, so
hearing Lynn and Johnson say this why Vietnam

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over and over again, is it
seems kind of silly. But it was

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produced in nineteen sixty five, of
what I'm reading right here as we're speaking,

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And my understanding was that it was
shown in boot camps to soldiers,

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and I'm looking. I found it
on YouTube and someone made a comment in

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the YouTube section that says, we
were made to watch this lie in army

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medic training at Fort sam Houston in
nineteen seventy. The instructors will not accept

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any questions. Many of us just
laughed and smirked as it rolled. Now

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that's guy's talking about nineteen seventy.
By then, you know a lot of

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people did not believe in the war, even when they're you know, drafted

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and going over there. Different than
it was in nineteen sixty five. Well,

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right, I mean because that came
out. Yeah, so back in

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sixty five. See, a couple
of things got to be you got to

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put it in context. Right,
is sixty four you have the you know,

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post Kennedy assassination trauma, and now
you know Johnson has risen to the

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presidency and he's taken over and he's
the commander in chief and we all got

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to get behind him. Now,
you could parallel that with you know,

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the whole get behind Bush right where
you where you have to be if you're

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a true American, you got to
get behind President Bush. Like you said,

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Donahue was punished. Other people were
punished for Oh I should say,

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you know that what's his name?
O'Reilly's on Fox anymore? Bill O'Reilly.

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He was labeling anyone who doubted the
war going into the Second Iraq were a

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trader on its show, right,
you know, anyone who doubted in Bill

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O'Reilly's world was a trader. Well, and that's the thing, and that's

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where he started that whole patriots and
pinheads thing, right, And so you

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were a pinhead if you were anti
American in any way, but you were

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a patriot if you were pro American. And that's the thing is that divining

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line really got stark during the look
we were attacked, right, so you

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know in the in the war on
terror, this is the deal that you're

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either with us or you're with the
terrorist, as Bush said, and that's

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all there was to it. Even
Bill Maher i think No, sure,

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I mean most of the ones on
TV were like that. I mean comedians

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were getting I think people forgot that
comedians were getting protested and run out of

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comedy clubs if they made jokes about
it, if they you know, picked

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on Bush. There was a cartoon
as a matter of fact, run by

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a Comedy Central called Little Bush,
I think. And Little Bush was,

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you know, making fun of the
President and his cabinet. It was like

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as if they were all like big
headed Peanuts character toddlers, and they were

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all goofballs, but you know,
politically the same as they were in their

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adult lives, you know, running
around being raised by you know, George

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H. W. Bush and Barbara
Course right. And you know, they

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took that off the air. They
took away anything that was a criticism of

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Bush, off of just about everything, because you couldn't criticize the president.

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You couldn't say something that criticized America. You couldn't question the motives at all,

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because we were at war with terrorism
itself. And that's the odd thing.

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Like I say, another parallel with
this Vietnam thing is that I heard

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through these propaganda films and as that
guy said in nineteen seventy there were probably

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still showing them, but they were
producing tons of these things mainly to show

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to the guys that were, you
know, going to boot camp and stuff

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like that. Get them ready,
get them interested in the job, get

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them psyched and set up to go
win what was it called Hearts and minds

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right where they were supposed to go
there and be the you know, the

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tactical trainers and all this stuff.
And then they start escalating to bring it

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in more troops, and you know, by nineteen seventy you have protests fully

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erupted, you have the problem the
pushback in sixty eight, you know where

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Bobby Kennedy literally is using that as
the wedge to pretty much run LBJ right

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out of the presidential race. I
mean, it's an important pivotal thing.

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But what's fascinating is we don't have
a difference after, you know, like

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in other words, the War on
Terror was motivated by something that actually happened

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to us. This was a theoretical
thing where it was like if we don't

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stop the communists, if we don't
stop the communists terror. Yeah, you

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know, in fact, thinking about
the the thing that this show, you

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know, we did a long thing
a couple of years ago, came out

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twenty seventeen time because by about that
ken Burns series, which is really endless,

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and I always suggest people don't watch
the ken Burns thing and watch this.

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Yeah, thirty minutes, watch this
why Vietnaming fun on YouTube? Watch

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this. Watched the Robert McNamara thing, The Fog of War Warrior, and

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then watch Hearts of Mind Hearts and
Minds, which was made in nineteen seventy

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four. It's anti war film.
Just watch those three things and they're all,

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you know, worthwhile, you know, the latter two of either one

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Academy awards, both of them,
or lots of awards. Well, ken

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Burns is awful, awful, absolutely
awful. This will ed. The only

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thing it was good about ken Burns
is that, you know, in rare

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Form they did show the Vietnamese side
of it a bit. That's the only

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thing good about the ken Burns film
outside of that. No, if you

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go with those three suggestions that you
just said, you would get a much

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clearer picture in different time periods of
exactly how it was being handled, how

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it was being sold to the public, how the public was reacting to it,

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stage by stage right, because you
have the initial rah rah, look,

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we need to fight the communist stop
the dominoes from falling, you know,

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propaganda to begin with. Then you
have you know McNamara and his reflections

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on it, and then you have
the anti war sentimentality, which seems I

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mean, look again, you and
I were small children at the tail end

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of that, you know, not
even really cognizant of the whole world around

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us. Yet it seems to me
as though the majority of the American public

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turned against and then it finally ended, right, Gerald Ford finally pulled this

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out, even though Nixon kept promising
it from sixty eight on. Okay,

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so all these things go on,
and it was a political wedge. But

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again it's not comparable to what happened
with the War on Terror because in a

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literal sense, we had more of
a obvious motivation. You know, it

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wasn't theoretical, It wasn't just about
battling communists. It wasn't well, we're

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just going to go battle the Islamo
fascists over there so they don't spread this

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was no, we were attacked,
So it was a different motivation. And

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in all honesty, another thing that
changes it is you don't have the same

207
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body count, Like I mean,
we're in Afghanistan longer, but I mean

208
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the losses are I'm not saying they're
not significant. Every loss is significant.

209
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But what I am saying is that
if you lose you know, seven thousand,

210
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eight thousand people over the course of
two decades, it is not comparable

211
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to one decade and sixty thousand.
You know what I'm saying, It's just

212
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not comparable. And even if you
go back and you get realistic about it,

213
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and you say, look, we
had special forces and stuff over there

214
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from the end of World War Two, which we did, still you don't

215
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have the same type of body count. If you stretch it out, it's

216
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not the same kind of body count. It's not the same kind of impact

217
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numerically, and nobody's being drafted,
right, So this is a volunteer army

218
00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:30.000
with a lower body count. And
some people would say, see, it's

219
00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:34.720
not as big of a deal,
but again, it's us involved in an

220
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endless war. That what did we
actually accomplish at the end of the day,

221
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And I would dare say we accomplished
less in Afghanistan than we did in

222
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Vietnam because at least Vietnam had been
changed Afghanistan. The Taliban just waited around

223
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to come back into office. I
mean, what you know, anyway,

224
00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:57.919
and then people could talk about the
disastrous you know, withdrawals, and neither

225
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one of them was pretty got to
give it that, you know, no

226
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matter how you look at it.
But anyway, I didn't want to delve

227
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into this too much. I just
wanted to mention though that I caught I

228
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probably have seen that propaganda film before, but since I'm familiar with the title

229
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of your book, I was like, I wonder if that's actually where he

230
00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:18.359
got it from. So you said
you were going to tell us where you

231
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:21.799
actually got the title of the book
from, So why don't you tell us

232
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that, and then we'll move on
to your presentation in Dallas and some other

233
00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:33.000
news on that. Well, I
didn't have a title for the book when

234
00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:38.039
I started writing it, and I
got to a point where I didn't feel

235
00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:45.880
confident. I was worried it was
getting too long. Like my initial plan

236
00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:51.240
was to write it starts nineteen forty
five and it's about Vietnam, and I

237
00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:53.680
was going to write it up to
nineteen sixty three when Kennedy gets killed.

238
00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:59.559
But I got up to the point
where he puts the advisors in, and

239
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I didn't feel confident that I could. I was worried that, you know,

240
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I'm doing all these clotes and meeting
after meeting after meeting, that it

241
00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:15.319
would get to a point where it
might bore people. And I just stopped

242
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writing. And then and I didn't
have a title. And then I was

243
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:29.440
out somewhere and I overheard, like
I was at a buffet type restaurant,

244
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and I overheard an older man talking
to a young a young young person,

245
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and the older man had served in
Vietnam, and the young guy asked him,

246
00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:45.559
why did the war happen? And
that's where I got that, Oh

247
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that why did the war happen?
Though that, I'll just frame the book

248
00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:53.880
around that. It's a good title, you know. Are you to take

249
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this entirely chronologically through the different volumes, because that means that if you're taking

250
00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:03.240
it up to sixty two or so, then that means you almost have to

251
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begin with the assassination and a few
things previous to the assassination in the next

252
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volume. So I mean you're gonna
open with the Kennedy assassination basically in the

253
00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:17.319
next book. Oh, what doesn't
happen to sixty three? Yeah, but

254
00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:19.440
I mean you're gonna open in sixty
two if you're gonna continue on, and

255
00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:22.599
then it won't be too long before
we get to the assassination. Well,

256
00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:32.000
I'm I'm I'm thinking about the book
will really be almost about the assassination.

257
00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:36.559
Really, but I'm gonna write,
I'm thinking about writing about Vietnam, Cuba

258
00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:41.799
and the arms uh dick your arms
race. So that means you're gonna write

259
00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:47.279
about Cuba, the missile crisis in
Vietnam, Vietnam. I mean you're gonna

260
00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:49.400
You're gonna also include Laos and the
uh you know, No, No,

261
00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:53.079
I pretty much did Laos in the
in the in this book. Okay,

262
00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:57.440
well what about what about what about
Germany and the beginning of the Probably I'm

263
00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:00.200
not going to get too much into
it. We might need to mention it

264
00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:03.839
though, I mean, yeah,
yeah, I mean I already wrote about

265
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:06.920
it though in the first book.
Oh yeah, yeah, okay, No,

266
00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:07.960
I was just thinking, you know, the beginning of the Brandon of

267
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:12.400
the wall around the Brandenburg get and
all that is a point of context though,

268
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:15.759
so you know, as you go
along chronologically, I guess, yeah,

269
00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:19.640
you could just write it all about
the assassination and then probably about the

270
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:25.920
transition and policy that occurs there,
because that's I mean, that's a huge

271
00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:30.200
issue. Is so I mean that
that's that's probably what you'll focus on.

272
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Is by the time we end that
book will probably be into the Johnson administration

273
00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:37.599
and how things changed, right something
like that. I mean, is that

274
00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:44.519
if that's what the third book would
be about, is when Johnson comes in,

275
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That's what I'm thinking. Oh,
okay, okay, right, look,

276
00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:48.920
I'm not telling you how to write
it. I'm just asking yeah,

277
00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:53.119
no, but okay, well,
you know that I'm looking forward to it,

278
00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:56.640
and I definitely want to see where
you go with it because I know

279
00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:02.720
that this is a obviously a particular
personal interest to you, the Kennedy assassination

280
00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:07.480
in and of itself, you know, and to me it's very very interesting,

281
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and the change in policy is extremely
notable because I feel as though if

282
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the assassination doesn't occur, we don't
have the next decade to talk about in

283
00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:22.400
Vietnam, because you know, obviously
National Security Action Memorandum two sixty three and

284
00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:26.160
so on, plus other things that
have now been revealed that look to me

285
00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:30.240
more and more like, there's no
doubt we would not have been engaged in

286
00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:33.839
Vietnam all the way up to nineteen
seventy six. You know. So there

287
00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:38.400
you go, it's going to have
to be discussed at length. Well let

288
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:45.279
me, I wish I could quote
this to you exactly. But so there's

289
00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:49.480
this. This is a little sounds
like a tangent. But there's a bad

290
00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:56.960
Star Trek episode the original series called
a Simon Earth and some do you remember

291
00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:00.000
that episode? Yes? I do, Okay, Well, so the episode's

292
00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:07.400
about it. I've watched it today, rewatched it, I guess because I

293
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saw someone mention it in a couple
of quotes from us. Well, I

294
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got to watch that, and it's
the episode I've watched the least. Because

295
00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:19.519
of that, I've like I dislike
it the most because what it was Star

296
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Trek was three seasons. This was
the last episode in the second season,

297
00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:30.920
and Gene Roddenberry, the producer,
was doubtful that Star Trek was going to

298
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:37.240
have a third season, so he
made this last episode as a backdoor pilot

299
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:41.480
for a potential other show, which
never aired. Yeah, that's a We

300
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:45.960
introduced a character named Gary seven.
Yeah, and the next TV show was

301
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:49.880
going to spin off a Star Trek
sort of where there's this guy who is

302
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:56.319
like a secret agent of sorts on
Earth around you know, what would have

303
00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:00.599
been modern times there in the mid
sixties, and was the guy that they

304
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:06.039
encountered during a sign and Earth.
There's also a woman on there. I

305
00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:08.400
can't remember who it was, but
I think she's a pretty significant cast member,

306
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:14.359
like like it's her first Terry Garr, That's who it was, Sterry

307
00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:18.119
Garr's first appearance for like TV and
everything. It's like her introduction into a

308
00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:22.200
career, which is crazy, and
she doesn't even she doesn't even want to

309
00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:26.279
mention it when they ask her about
it in interviews and stuff. She pretty

310
00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:32.079
much wants to skip over her appearance
in garyn in the Gary seven Star Trek

311
00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:34.680
episode, you know, Assignment Earth, because I think she feels as though

312
00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:37.960
she was just put on there to
wear a mini skirt and look good.

313
00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:44.519
But it is it is an interesting, interesting Star Trek. You know,

314
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:48.279
Star Trek went to Earth quite a
few times, probably for budgetary reasons in

315
00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:52.440
the sixties. Okay, I don't
know people realize this, but that's the

316
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:56.359
truth of it is that they could, you know, they wouldn't have to

317
00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:00.519
build brand new sets or anything.
They might be able to use my day

318
00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:04.359
things in modern day sets and people
dressed in modern day clothing in the sixties

319
00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:08.720
a lot easier, you know,
or at least in the twentieth century.

320
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:14.799
Like at one point they go to
a very earthlike planet that's in a different

321
00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:19.200
episode where it's all run by Nazis
now because one of the guys who went

322
00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:25.200
there decided that it was a good
way to organize things. And they end

323
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:30.000
up on another very earthlike planet one
time where it's run by gangsters. It's

324
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.880
called that one's called a piece of
the Action. I remember that one because

325
00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:37.920
it's kind of comical where they're trying
to be like, you know, I

326
00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:44.400
don't know, like nineteen thirties like
al Capone era gangsters, like right,

327
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:49.200
like Chicago type al Capone gangsters from
the thirties and from the movies in the

328
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:53.680
forties and stuff like that. But
please continue on about as sign on Earth

329
00:24:53.720 --> 00:25:00.720
that you rewatched again today, Well, I'll just going off of a tangents.

330
00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:06.400
But the reason it's related though is
that the I mean, it's a

331
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:11.319
terrible episode, but the enterprise goes
and it goes back in time in nineteen

332
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:18.480
sixty eight to observe and what ends
up happening is the characters that we know

333
00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:23.799
on Star Trek, do you know
this staying around basically, and these new

334
00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:30.000
characters, this Gary seven and this
the girl that you talked about, are

335
00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:33.319
doing all the action in the show
and there you know it's it's it's just

336
00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:41.680
a bad episode. But the story
is that this Gary seven guy is going

337
00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:51.720
to Earth two because there's going to
be a new nuclear platform that the United

338
00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:57.880
States is launching into space and if
it accomplished that mission, it's going to

339
00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:04.000
escalate the arms race and become dangerous. It's gonna be an orbital nuclear warhead

340
00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:11.599
platform, right, And he goes
there to sabotage it. And in the

341
00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:17.720
first segment of the show, a
Spock makes the comment that you know,

342
00:26:17.799 --> 00:26:22.799
once the Enterprise arrives at this period
of time in nineteen sixty eight and the

343
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:30.559
episode airs and this is important on
the twenty eighth, twenty ninth to March

344
00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:37.200
nineteen sixty eight is the air date, and Spock makes the content, this

345
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:41.599
is the quote I'm want to dig
up for you. There will be an

346
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:48.279
important assassination today and equally dangerous government
cop in Asia, and this could be

347
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:55.480
highly critical the launching an orbital nuclear
platform in the United States countering a simil

348
00:26:55.559 --> 00:27:00.680
launch by other powers. Well,
in seven days of the airing of this

349
00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:07.839
episode, Martin Luther King is assassinated. So the thing about it is,

350
00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:15.960
you know, the nineteen sixties,
Obviously they didn't know King was going to

351
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:19.920
be killed when they made this episode
in an RFK after that, but nuclear

352
00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:26.240
war and the assassinations and a government
coup in Asia was part of a Star

353
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:33.319
Trek episode. And the irony to
me of of that sentence there will be

354
00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:38.680
an a port assassination day inequally dangerous
government coop in Asia. Well, what

355
00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:45.079
no one talks about is that the
day after Kenny was killed, there was

356
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:53.000
a coup in Asia in North Vietnam
and Ho Chi Minh was essentially sidelined,

357
00:27:53.559 --> 00:27:59.960
turned into a puppet, and General
Giapp was pretty much stripped of his power

358
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:06.839
at the time too. So new
leadership took over the day after the Kenny

359
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:15.079
assassination, and that leadership the way
they the reason they took over was they

360
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:21.640
said that Hoe she Men, that
that propaganda movie that you spoke about earlier

361
00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:26.920
was saying was Hitler. That new
leadership took over, led by Le Dwan,

362
00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:33.720
who's a figure in that Ken Vern's
documentary. We didn't know about him

363
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:38.039
back then, apparently in the sixties, but he took over on the basis

364
00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:45.279
that the United States was about to
escalate and we need them. They needed

365
00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:52.720
to escalate first, and Ho Chi
Minh and Gyip had been resistant to escalating

366
00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:59.960
in South Vietnam for ten years,
and so they were sidelined. They made

367
00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:04.720
immediate declaration in the park, pull
up beer there to escalate, and they

368
00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:14.440
ordered sending down the first regiment of
uh NVA regular troops. So, you

369
00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:22.480
know that's a historical fact. When
Americans, it's just human nature. You

370
00:29:22.519 --> 00:29:26.519
know, we think of all the
events in Vietnam in Vietnam as being driven

371
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:36.319
by the decisions in Washington. But
before Johnson escalates, they made they made

372
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:41.079
this, or may put it this
way, if you think NSM the after

373
00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:47.200
two sixty three was a two seven
seven two is the one two seven three

374
00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:51.799
if you think that two seven three
is a turning point in Vietnam. So

375
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:56.400
it's happening at the same exact time
as the decision in North Vietnam. So

376
00:29:56.519 --> 00:30:03.000
both sides are escalating the day after
Kene's killed. Now, the thing about

377
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:08.839
the North Vietnamese ac Corn de Yah, they believed that Kenny was going to

378
00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:14.240
withdraw. So, uh, you
know, I haven't seen it written out

379
00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:21.119
anywhere like this, but my belief
from this, this sequence of events and

380
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:26.359
gap statement that made repeatedly that they
believe that Kenny was going to withdraw from

381
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:33.920
Vietnam. My interpretation of this these
sequence events is that they interpret assassination as

382
00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:40.240
in the end of the Watrawal program
or an escalation on our part, so

383
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:45.440
that that helped us coup to happen. That's that's what I That's what I

384
00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:49.839
believe in. It's not in writing
anywhere, but that's what I'm inferring from

385
00:30:49.960 --> 00:30:57.680
the sequence event. Now that said, the presentation I gave and I'm was

386
00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:03.039
really you know, the book I
wrote. That's the only presentation I've given

387
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:08.359
about it. Because when I write
these things, I don't I want.

388
00:31:10.359 --> 00:31:17.720
My hope is that the facts will
just speak for themselves and the interpretations I

389
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:23.519
may have. People will read the
facts and just come to them or understand

390
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:30.880
them. I feel real hesitant to
just spit out a bunch of interpretations that

391
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:36.480
are new. Will you rather lay
out the facts and let the reader come

392
00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:40.359
to the conclusion themselves. I understand
that, and that's a great thing about

393
00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:45.359
your style. It's not aggressive.
What's really interesting here to me is that

394
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:49.440
there is a lot that went on
here regarding Vietnam where there's a whole lot

395
00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:55.119
of misconception. It is not just
driven by Washington's actions. You're exactly right.

396
00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:59.359
But what it is driven by,
however, is a lot of the

397
00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:06.079
propagation. Like look, our militaries
and our intelligence agencies take actions quite often

398
00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:10.519
sometimes based on things that are exaggerated, amped up. You know, the

399
00:32:10.599 --> 00:32:15.440
missile gap in and of itself problem, It wasn't a real gap, you

400
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:20.799
know that. Why did we participate? Why did we do mk ultra Mike,

401
00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:24.079
Well, it was because the justification
was what the Soviets are already doing

402
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:28.359
it, see, you know,
and then we've come to find out they

403
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:31.480
actually weren't just yet doing the kind
of stuff that we wound up doing.

404
00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:37.039
It's very weird you see actions being
taken like Okay, ho Chi men believes

405
00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:43.279
in Kennedy's withdrawal. These guys turn
around and knock him out of there because

406
00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:47.240
he's not being aggressive enough because they
don't believe per second that Kennedy's going to

407
00:32:47.319 --> 00:32:52.559
withdraw because of some of the public
statements he's making. You see what I'm

408
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:58.119
saying, Propaganda and communication, you
know, politically, the stuff that's above

409
00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:01.000
board, the stuff that's under the
table, all of these things are relevant

410
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:06.200
and they can have effects whether we
know it or not. See, the

411
00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:09.119
thing is, nobody would have tried
to take out Ho Chi Minh or the

412
00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:13.799
generals that were running things if they
thought that Kennedy was getting ready to withdraw.

413
00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:17.640
If that was made absolutely clear,
and that's all there was to it,

414
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:21.680
there'd be no reason to try and
take Ho Chiman out. It meant

415
00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:24.359
he was winning. You know what
I'm saying. Like a bunch of things

416
00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:30.440
would not have happened if you know, like the crazy thing that people bring

417
00:33:30.519 --> 00:33:34.960
up about, you know, Reagan
with Star Wars, right, some people

418
00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:38.880
would say that Reagan basically bankrupted the
Soviets by them trying to participate in an

419
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:44.559
arms race because of Star Wars.
Because of the escalation of the arms race,

420
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:47.440
it broke them financially, and this
led them to be vulnerable. Now

421
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:51.960
I'm not saying I absolutely agree with
that, but what I am saying is

422
00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:57.519
that it is a strategy to outlast
your opponent with some propaganda, with the

423
00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:00.920
idea that they need to step up
and compete with some whether it is a

424
00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:04.279
real threat or an imagined one.
I mean, I even think back to

425
00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:07.440
that thing in World War Two when
those people had those inflatable tanks that people

426
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:10.679
were openly put out. You know, like if you just imagine there's an

427
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:14.320
army there and you could present it
to people, Look, there's gonna be

428
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:16.760
a huge army that's going to roll
through here. What do you do?

429
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:22.559
You create reactions? Real world reactions
might occur from the propaganda, from disinformation,

430
00:34:23.239 --> 00:34:28.519
from some of these psychological warfare operations, et cetera. It is not

431
00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:34.760
always a cut and dry thing.
So again with the Vietnam situation, Indeed,

432
00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:38.039
if it had been clearly signaled that
Kennedy was going to back out and

433
00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:42.599
there was no contradiction, because you
know what I'm saying, I mean,

434
00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:46.000
there was only days before the assassination, he's making statements that make it sound

435
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:50.280
like I'm not pulling out of there
in any way, shape or form.

436
00:34:50.360 --> 00:34:55.039
And meanwhile he's having these guys right
reports that basically justify him pulling out right,

437
00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:59.800
I mean, but nobody saw that
in public. So what do you

438
00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:02.960
have the reaction of the North Vietnamese
people where they're saying, look, our

439
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:07.320
guys are not being aggressive enough,
unless I'm misreading this, because they don't

440
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:09.679
think that the United States is going
to step out. As a matter of

441
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:14.159
fact, they figured that it's going
to escalate. And there are a bunch

442
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:17.880
of missed opportunities here and a bunch
of misleading that goes on where you know,

443
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:22.159
either we're faining to the peace process
or we're feigning to escalate the war,

444
00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:29.000
which create real world reactions. And
this happens in every conflict when you're

445
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:31.800
playing this game. This is why
it's so important in the nuance of this

446
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:36.039
communication, the stuff that's above boards, the stuff that's you know, the

447
00:35:36.119 --> 00:35:45.079
back channels. Every channel of communication
has its purpose in this activity, you

448
00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:49.960
know, in the conflicts that occur
between nations. And this is one of

449
00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:52.639
the more interesting aspects of it.
So and that Gary seven thing, I'll

450
00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:57.519
tell you it just just to point
to how ridiculous it was. Though I

451
00:35:57.880 --> 00:36:00.440
remember there was a cat in the
episode. Since you just watched it,

452
00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:05.119
Mike, let me ask you something, because I have not watched this episode,

453
00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:07.559
probably in ten fifteen years, but
I do remember that the cat had

454
00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:12.360
like a special collar on. Was
the cat the boss of Gary seven or

455
00:36:12.519 --> 00:36:16.079
was he like another agent? Was
the cat another agent? I can't remember

456
00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:20.400
what the deal was with the cat
in the Star Trek thing, which was

457
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:23.840
wholly ridiculous and silly, meant to
be a Cold War and this is the

458
00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:27.519
excuse that they would make about it, by the way, is that it

459
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:32.920
was a commentary on the Cold War
and how dangerous decisions and escalations and arms

460
00:36:34.039 --> 00:36:38.239
races could lead to bigger problems later
on. And indeed those things are true.

461
00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:43.920
Sometimes they lead to solutions, and
sometimes they lead to other situations that

462
00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:46.719
are going to require more solutions.
Depending on what it is you're doing and

463
00:36:46.840 --> 00:36:50.880
what it is you signal as opposed
to what it is you're doing is also

464
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:55.039
important. Meanwhile, Yeah, it
is pretty weird that the assassination of King

465
00:36:55.119 --> 00:37:00.840
occurs a couple of days after this
thing airs, which, by the way,

466
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:02.679
I've read in a couple of different
places that Martin Luther King Junior was

467
00:37:02.719 --> 00:37:07.119
actually a Star Trek fan. You
know, he might have watched it quite

468
00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:10.760
a few times, not just because
he liked Michelle Nichols, although Michelle Nichols

469
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:14.719
tells the story about meeting I'm sure
you've heard that before, right, Oh

470
00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:17.239
yeah, yeah. So anyway,
look, all I'm saying is that there

471
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:22.760
is a lot to be explored and
examined here, and I look forward to

472
00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:25.000
you doing it. So what else, what else could we glean from all

473
00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:28.280
of this? In your mind?
And what else do you want to say

474
00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:30.079
about the presentation in Dallas? Before
I run you out of time here?

475
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:37.679
He asked me something about the cat. Oh yeah, the cat. I

476
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:40.480
was what was the deal with that
cat? Was the cat like the boss

477
00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:46.000
agent or was? It's never explained. I mean I just watched this today

478
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:51.920
and the cat. It's just so
the guy walks round to this cat and

479
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:54.559
several times the cat well, you
know, he asked to deal with some

480
00:37:54.719 --> 00:38:00.400
guards, and the cat will distract
the guards so he can disabled the cards

481
00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:02.960
and does things. The cat does
stuff like that. It's like a super

482
00:38:04.039 --> 00:38:08.880
intelligent cat, and Huger intelligent.
And then and at the end, at

483
00:38:08.920 --> 00:38:14.719
the very end of the show,
almost you know, towards the end,

484
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:20.559
there's one brief scene where the cat
is sitting on a sofa and it turns

485
00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:25.039
into a woman, and one per
the girl that you talked about, uh,

486
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:30.360
sees it and gets mad and then
asks Gary seven, who is that?

487
00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:36.119
And then they look back and the
it's turned back into a cat,

488
00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:39.599
but there's no explanation for what's going
on, and he just says, that's

489
00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:44.880
my cat. Yes, I mean, it's just uh, who knows,

490
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:47.519
who knows? It's just kind of
hokey. I wonder if it inspired remember,

491
00:38:49.079 --> 00:38:51.639
like in the maybe it was the
seventies or eighties, I can't remember

492
00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:53.559
what year it was that there was
suddenly a movie called The Cat from Outer

493
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:59.280
Space. Yeah, I remember that. I wonder if that inspired it.

494
00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:01.760
If guy had it might have.
So there's a good reason why I can't

495
00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:05.480
remember what the deal was with that
damn cat, right, because there was

496
00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:07.719
something weird. It had a special
collar and it was super intelligent. It

497
00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:13.480
was like part of the team of
special agents in a weird way. Okay,

498
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:15.159
No, I just wanted to see
you because but it's not explained.

499
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:19.360
It's not really explained, right,
I haven't watched it in like fifteen years,

500
00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:22.440
so yeah, well, I'm telling
you it's the episode I probably have

501
00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:28.079
watched the very least, you know, I don't know that that Nazi episode

502
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:30.039
is pretty weird, you know too. But like I said, a bunch

503
00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:32.960
of times they went to Earth,
right, Yeah, there was another time

504
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:37.800
where they ended up capturing an astronaut. I think, yeah, that's right,

505
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:40.280
that's right, you know, And
that's like an astronaut in like nineteen

506
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:44.519
sixty. I mean, this is
before the moonshot and everything. You know,

507
00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:46.599
remember that's sixty Yeah, yeah,
it is. Yeah, And so

508
00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:50.639
I mean they suddenly have, you
know, one of these test pilots they

509
00:39:50.679 --> 00:39:53.519
grab up somehow, and then they
decide they have to return him to Earth

510
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:58.639
because not not for him, but
because his child is going to be part

511
00:39:58.679 --> 00:40:01.400
of the first space station that goes
out or something like that. Right,

512
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:06.679
It's all kinds of weird stuff goes
on with Star Trek. But a lot

513
00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:10.559
of times they went to an Earth
or an Earth like planet simply basically they

514
00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:14.719
wrote episodes like that to cut down
on the budget. I mean, that's

515
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:19.039
the truth of it, because Desilu
didn't want to invest as much money as

516
00:40:19.159 --> 00:40:22.519
But I didn't really realize till today
because I went to I read some miracles

517
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:28.519
about this episode, right, that
this really was deliberately. The phrase is

518
00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:32.679
backdoor pilot. And they made it
the last episode of the second season thinking

519
00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:37.800
that Star Trek wouldn't be renewed,
right, So I didn't I didn't really

520
00:40:38.679 --> 00:40:42.599
really, you know, realize that
part of it. Yeah, well,

521
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:45.000
they had moved it and it's time
slot. They put it in a bad

522
00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:49.159
time slot for its demographic, you
know, and all kinds of weird things

523
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:51.360
happened, and they thought it was
gonna Yeah, this was supposed to be

524
00:40:51.519 --> 00:40:54.199
like, oh now we got another
TV show. It spins right off of

525
00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:59.599
Star Trek. Yeah, that's what
it was. I knew that for many

526
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:02.760
years. You just found that out
though, huh, Well I didn't.

527
00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:07.519
I didn't really think about that.
I knew it was a pilot, but

528
00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:10.679
I did. I didn't really realize, Oh, I didn't know. It

529
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:16.079
was Gene Roddenberry kind of whole idea
to make this other show, and it

530
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:20.360
was. That's why it was the
last episode of the second season. I

531
00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:22.719
didn't know that part well, you
know. And long before they did Star

532
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:25.800
Trek the Next Generation, they tried
to reboot they were gonna call it Star

533
00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:30.280
Trek Phase two, which was a
whole other thing that they were trying to

534
00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:35.079
pull together in the seventies, and
they because of the success of the Star

535
00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:38.559
Wars movies, they ended up making
Star Trek the motion picture instead and borrowed

536
00:41:38.599 --> 00:41:43.079
a bunch of elements out of Phase
two. They canceled that TV show to

537
00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:45.760
create the movies because they were just
going to take it into the movie universe

538
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:50.880
basically of Star Trek, and then
in the eighties they then they you know,

539
00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:54.880
came up with the next generation.
But yeah, it's an interesting,

540
00:41:55.039 --> 00:42:00.960
interesting piece of media history. Star
Trek is all together. But there's tons

541
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:05.679
of commentary throughout Star Trek about the
Cold War. Uh, some people would

542
00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:09.679
say about Vietnam directly clearly they they
had, you know, a commentary about

543
00:42:09.719 --> 00:42:15.119
World War Two via the Nazi theme
in that one episode, which you know,

544
00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:19.920
I always find that remarkable because there's
something where if you search online you

545
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:23.159
can find you know, Leonard nimoy
in a in an s S uniform,

546
00:42:23.199 --> 00:42:28.039
I think, and uh, you
know, and they actually got a McCoy

547
00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:30.920
in a uh, in a Nazi
doctor uniform, like he's a Nazi doctor

548
00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:36.199
officer, you know. Yeah,
and it's just it's just pretty wild.

549
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:40.400
I think at one point they say
something like uh, oh no, no,

550
00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:44.360
no, then there's that other one, uh previous to that where where

551
00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:46.559
what is it the woman that ends
up getting run over by the car.

552
00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:51.719
She becomes part of the peace movement
if they save her life, which screws

553
00:42:51.800 --> 00:42:54.480
things up. You know, there's
a whole bunch of things where like you

554
00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:57.880
know, piece, it's like the
right idea but at the wrong time.

555
00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:00.440
Remember, it prevents World War two, but then it leads to you know,

556
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:06.960
nuclear annihilation or whatever, so they
kind of have to let her die,

557
00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:09.199
even though you know Kirk is again
falling in love with some woman in

558
00:43:09.280 --> 00:43:15.320
the past or whatever. All kinds
of weird stuff happens during Star Trek,

559
00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:20.119
but they send them to Earth generally
just to save money. But the commentaries

560
00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:23.360
are there, you know, the
anti war and anti Vietnam and anti Cold

561
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:29.119
War commentaries are intact throughout the early
part of the TV show for sure.

562
00:43:30.159 --> 00:43:32.840
Anyhow, back to the you know, the presentation though that you did,

563
00:43:34.920 --> 00:43:37.800
because I still have not watched the
whole thing, and I was there for

564
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:39.400
part of it, but you know, I was getting run around doing other

565
00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:44.960
things. Other people came up to
you though, and I mean, what

566
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:49.039
was the thing that stood out to
them that you know, that was most

567
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:52.840
remarkable that you presented there because usually
you don't do stuff like this, and

568
00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:55.079
it is relevant. It did have
to do. I know, you had

569
00:43:55.119 --> 00:44:00.800
both the War State and why the
Vietnam and you know war in your hand

570
00:44:00.519 --> 00:44:04.519
at the time, and you were
going to get to uh, quoting out

571
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:06.960
of the book, but I think
you ran out of time because your hour

572
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:10.559
just sort of flew by. But
what do you think it was? The

573
00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:15.760
was the key highlight there that people
like most most wanted to talk to you

574
00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:22.000
about afterwards? Uh, I'm I'm
not. I don't I'm not really sure

575
00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:32.079
if there's one specific thing. But
what I was doing was making the argument

576
00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:40.480
that well, I put it to
you this way when I when I wrote

577
00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:47.400
it, I started to see some
things differently, interpreted things differently than I

578
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:52.840
had before, came to a different
understanding and put that in the book and

579
00:44:55.480 --> 00:45:00.639
and explain that in the in the
talk. So for example, the Cuban

580
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:08.480
missile crisis. You know, the
first book I wrote, in the War

581
00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:15.039
State, I showed there's a memo
and I've talked about this at the presentation

582
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:25.679
that they knew the Joint Che's of
Staff Kennedy they knew that there's mobile missile

583
00:45:25.719 --> 00:45:35.559
launchers in Cuba on trucks that could
fire short range nuclear missiles like a twelve

584
00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:39.320
mile range, not the intercontinental ones
that can reach DC or New York,

585
00:45:39.800 --> 00:45:44.920
but the short range ones on a
truck. And Kenny had a meeting about

586
00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:52.920
it. It's on tape where they
the YouTube people are photo CIA photo people,

587
00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:54.960
you know, they got easels of
the stuff. They show them to

588
00:45:55.079 --> 00:46:00.079
him and he talks to John mcconne
about it, and they based in the

589
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:04.039
Cone basically tells them the CIA director
that they, you know, that they

590
00:46:04.519 --> 00:46:08.000
can't assure destroying all these things in
air strike because there are their trucks.

591
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:15.840
They can hide them in the woods. And when Canny resolves the crisis with

592
00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:20.960
khruse Chef, they joint chiefs of
staff. They still want to invade Cuba,

593
00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:28.159
and Kenny gets McNamara to ask them
how many casualties would there be in

594
00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:37.400
an evasion and they say in the
memo that something like twenty thousand people if

595
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:42.760
there's if we have an evasion force
the size of Normandy, uh, but

596
00:46:43.159 --> 00:46:50.519
more if the Cubans or Soviets use
one of these short range nuclear missiles.

597
00:46:50.519 --> 00:46:53.519
And they there's evidence of at least
one of them on on the island.

598
00:46:54.239 --> 00:46:58.480
And you know, I show this
memo and to me, you know,

599
00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:01.960
this is a shot frocking memo when
I first saw it. And know one

600
00:47:02.119 --> 00:47:08.360
is you know that disputed this or
even made a big deal about it.

601
00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:14.079
Well, here's a question about that
though, because you know, in only

602
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:19.480
the past decade or so, did
we learn that there were local commanders that

603
00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:24.199
could have utilized those things in a
in in the battlefield, that they could

604
00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:30.000
have actually launched those those you know, the battlefield nukes, right, and

605
00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:34.639
that was something that was supposed to
be a New Revolution revelation. Did they

606
00:47:34.760 --> 00:47:37.360
know it at the time is my
question. I mean, if they knew

607
00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:39.719
that maybe there were some of these
mobile short range things and things that could

608
00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:45.159
be used like right there, uh, in order to prevent the invasion,

609
00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:49.440
did they know that the uh,
that the local commanders had the ability to

610
00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:52.360
launch them or not? I don't
think they did. But have you found

611
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:55.159
evidence to the contract? Oh no, I don't. I don't think they

612
00:47:55.239 --> 00:48:00.159
knew that. Just the fact that
they existed, though, is still news.

613
00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:06.880
Yeah, it's new because that's not
what we were That's not the story

614
00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:10.880
that we've been told for a long
time. Is that the major corct that

615
00:48:12.039 --> 00:48:15.440
the story that Robert McNamar tells that
fog of war thing? For example,

616
00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:20.159
Well, did he know that's the
did he was he in on that memo?

617
00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:22.920
Did he know about it? Was? Oh? Well yeah, I

618
00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:28.800
mean he wrote the question to get
the memo and yeah this this was talked

619
00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:32.400
about. Okay, I mean,
and he knew all about it. But

620
00:48:34.360 --> 00:48:39.320
what But the problem is, you
know, I we don't know when he

621
00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:49.079
does that that fog of war thing? Is he covered? Is he deliberately

622
00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:57.239
uh forgetting this information? Uh?
In order to create this narrative that but

623
00:48:57.440 --> 00:49:01.079
he says, we didn't know how
close you were to nuclear war and it

624
00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:07.840
was just luck that it didn't happen. And in that once he found out

625
00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:15.719
this information years later, he was
shocked. Well, I'm saying he knew

626
00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:23.280
that and but but that doesn't mean
he could have remembered things wrong and is

627
00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:27.320
not lying when he does. And
here's the other thing is that if that

628
00:49:27.440 --> 00:49:30.400
remained classified, right, I mean, is it possible that he was still

629
00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:35.239
just protecting classified information at that point
when he did that movie? Because that's

630
00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:37.320
a good that's a good point you
know, because that's still early on and

631
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:40.440
maybe that s that's a good point, you know, only on a need

632
00:49:40.519 --> 00:49:45.639
to know basis, even back then, because that might have made the narrative

633
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:50.599
a whole lot different, right,
because you have the heroic narrative of Kennedy

634
00:49:50.719 --> 00:49:53.679
prevented. We had missiles pointed at
us at the public, right, they

635
00:49:53.679 --> 00:49:57.440
could have easily hit Florida, they
could have easily hit the East Coast.

636
00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:01.519
They could have easily all that,
and it would kind of disturb the narrative

637
00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:05.360
if it's like, no, we
also knew they had battlefield nukes ready.

638
00:50:05.960 --> 00:50:08.960
You know, maybe that was just
not supposed to be shared with the public

639
00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:13.119
at all. Maybe that was still
highly classified at the time. I don't

640
00:50:13.159 --> 00:50:16.880
know. I'm just speculating about the
possibilities here. I'm not saying that McNamara

641
00:50:16.920 --> 00:50:22.320
wouldn't allied. I'm not saying the
government wouldn't allied. But what I am

642
00:50:22.440 --> 00:50:25.719
saying is that there are certain times
where they might be withholding information for different

643
00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:30.679
reasons. And you know, people
have always said that that's almost like a

644
00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:32.559
confession that he gives in the fog
of war and all this other stuff.

645
00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:37.559
But I don't see it that way
I see it as and much like I

646
00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:40.679
saw him in It was either two
thousand or two thousand and one at NYU

647
00:50:40.800 --> 00:50:45.760
he did a presentation, and even
then, when he was talking about this

648
00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:49.519
kind of stuff, I gotta say
that I feel as though he always had

649
00:50:50.320 --> 00:50:53.559
very strict control about the information he
was willing to share and not willing to

650
00:50:53.639 --> 00:51:00.639
share, and wanted to make sure
that he always drew the right narrative out

651
00:51:00.679 --> 00:51:04.599
of every circumstance that involved him,
for sure. But also I think he

652
00:51:04.719 --> 00:51:09.760
was protective of the Kennedy administration,
the Kennedy mystique as well. And that's

653
00:51:09.800 --> 00:51:14.840
the impression I got from seeing the
guy in person. You know, I

654
00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:17.039
don't know what your thoughts are on
McNamara, but I mean people have had

655
00:51:17.480 --> 00:51:21.719
various thoughts about him, because,
after all, he is essentially one of

656
00:51:21.719 --> 00:51:24.559
the architects of the Vietnam War.
But then again, was he a reluctant

657
00:51:24.679 --> 00:51:30.280
architect? Was he, you know, a fully willing accomplice. Is he

658
00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:32.400
somebody who, you know, in
all in all honesty, was out there,

659
00:51:32.519 --> 00:51:35.960
you know, trying to do what
he thought was absolutely the right thing

660
00:51:36.119 --> 00:51:38.679
or not? Or was he just
being pulled along by other interests? I

661
00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:44.079
leave that to somebody else's judgment.
I don't know, but but there's something

662
00:51:44.119 --> 00:51:46.039
to be said about that. And
McNamara is definitely a key player obviously,

663
00:51:46.119 --> 00:51:52.599
I mean Secretary of Defense. But
anyway, what let's tie a bow on

664
00:51:52.719 --> 00:51:54.719
this so I can get you out
of here on time. And you know,

665
00:51:54.800 --> 00:51:58.320
I do urge you guys to go
ahead and read the first of all

666
00:51:58.440 --> 00:52:01.480
that this volume that Mike's talking about, why the Vietnam War but also the

667
00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:06.840
war state. And I'm looking forward
to volume two, which Mike has told

668
00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:09.360
us tonight. You know, we'll
start before the assassination, would probably be

669
00:52:09.639 --> 00:52:15.239
a lot about the assassination of John
F. Kennedy and uh and and how

670
00:52:15.320 --> 00:52:19.920
that proceeds and what that what is
happening during that time period, which will

671
00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:23.800
be most interesting given what we discussed
tonight, And god knows what else you'll

672
00:52:23.960 --> 00:52:30.920
unearth in the course of researching and
assembling that book, right Mike, Well,

673
00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:35.440
I mean that share some of the
information as we do these do these

674
00:52:35.480 --> 00:52:43.079
shows. But yeah, I've got
I've got a book for future shows sitting

675
00:52:43.159 --> 00:52:45.000
right here in front of me.
It's called Strategic Air Warfare, all right.

676
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:52.239
In his interviews with General le maay
nice and in it he's there's a

677
00:52:52.280 --> 00:52:58.880
whole section on the Cuban missile crisis, and he's got a whole different narrative

678
00:52:59.320 --> 00:53:05.679
than the macnamara narrative or any one
that you've heard before. I bet you

679
00:53:05.800 --> 00:53:10.320
la Masson differently. I mean,
here's you know, and it's it's worth

680
00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:15.800
breaking down. I got you in
there. Does he discuss the fire bombing

681
00:53:15.880 --> 00:53:19.679
of Dresden and uh and u Berlin? I guess, and then the fire

682
00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:22.280
bombings that they did in Japan?
Does he discussed all that? Well?

683
00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:24.199
Yeah, Well, here's an interesting
thing, he says, So, I

684
00:53:24.280 --> 00:53:28.400
mean, this is covering. It's
a group of it's a group of general

685
00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:30.280
Air Force generals, is like three
of them, and he's one of them.

686
00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:36.280
Interviews done in the like in the
early eighties, and uh he talks

687
00:53:36.280 --> 00:53:40.719
about the Korean War and bit and
says, let me get let me tell

688
00:53:40.719 --> 00:53:51.000
you this. It's just something else
that they wanted to do strategic bombing in

689
00:53:51.159 --> 00:53:59.199
Korea like they did in Japan,
and they weren't allowed to because the strategic

690
00:53:59.360 --> 00:54:07.920
targets were all in China, and
instead they're forced to just do uh uh,

691
00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:15.719
what's the word for it? Uh, interdiction bombing, dude, which

692
00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:21.920
is what why the bombing Vietnam was
bombing the Ho Chi Minh trail, bombing

693
00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:27.880
the forces as they come into South
Vietnam. That's what he says. We

694
00:54:28.039 --> 00:54:32.599
were his strategic air command, the
Air Force was forced to do in Korea,

695
00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:37.960
where when he wanted to bomb the
strategic targets that were in in China.

696
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:45.039
Uh. But uh, he says, this is something Uh, we

697
00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:47.519
went and fought. This is what
he says. We went over there and

698
00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:53.320
fought the war and eventually burned down
every town in North Korea, someway or

699
00:54:53.320 --> 00:54:58.519
another, and some in South Korea
too. We ever burned, We burned

700
00:54:58.559 --> 00:55:04.760
down Pussan and acts. But we've
burned it down anyway. The Marines started

701
00:55:04.760 --> 00:55:08.159
a battle down there with no enemy
in sight. Over a period of three

702
00:55:08.239 --> 00:55:14.599
years or so, we killed off
what twenty percent of the population of Korea

703
00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:22.199
as direct casuals of war over a
period of three years. That seemed to

704
00:55:22.239 --> 00:55:24.960
be acceptable to everybody. But to
kill a few people at the start right

705
00:55:25.039 --> 00:55:30.039
away the way I wanted to with
my strategic bombing, No, we can't

706
00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:34.760
seem to stomach that. Yeah.
See, that's the thing about him is

707
00:55:34.840 --> 00:55:37.880
that he argues that, look,
if I murdered a few people right away,

708
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:39.440
it'll be a lot cleaner than what
we're going to have to do if

709
00:55:39.480 --> 00:55:44.119
we stick around. And here's the
thing, numerically, he might not be

710
00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:47.199
wrong, even though some of those
things, I mean, it was savage,

711
00:55:47.239 --> 00:55:51.119
what was done to Dresden, it
was savage. What was done in

712
00:55:51.280 --> 00:55:57.480
Japan absolutely brutal, you know,
lighting the air on fire basically over a

713
00:55:57.599 --> 00:56:01.159
major city. But did it,
in the end actually do a lot more

714
00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:06.039
good than even using the new you
know, the atomic weapons? Probably?

715
00:56:06.559 --> 00:56:09.039
You know, is it strategically more
sound? Even though it is difficult to

716
00:56:09.079 --> 00:56:14.239
stomach what it is they were talking
about doing. I don't know. You

717
00:56:14.320 --> 00:56:17.719
know, again, I'm not the
the grand strategist that that he was supposed

718
00:56:17.719 --> 00:56:22.039
to be. So it's an interesting
thing to break down and take a look

719
00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:24.960
at and historically examine. So I
guess we'll get to that in future show.

720
00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:29.280
Can we give you one little more
tidbitch? Sure? So, because

721
00:56:29.320 --> 00:56:31.599
it's it's I mean, there's so
much in here. Uh, it's worth

722
00:56:31.840 --> 00:56:37.199
going through a lot of it.
But so he says when they're bombing Japan

723
00:56:38.679 --> 00:56:44.639
that one of his generals calculated that
they were just going to wipe out the

724
00:56:44.679 --> 00:56:51.480
whole country and Japan was going to
surrender. That they before the tomic bomb

725
00:56:51.559 --> 00:56:58.039
was dropped, they they were calckling
that their own bombing was going to collapse

726
00:56:58.199 --> 00:57:05.599
the entire country and it probably wouldn't
be necessary to invade him. And he

727
00:57:05.760 --> 00:57:10.639
says that he went to Washington.
I'm not sure what the date is here,

728
00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:16.280
June nineteen, nineteen forty five.
Here he is to tell him this,

729
00:57:17.679 --> 00:57:21.880
and he says, we briefed the
Joint chiefs of Staff. We did

730
00:57:21.960 --> 00:57:25.599
not get a very good reception.
As a matter of fact, General Marshall

731
00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:30.800
slept through the briefing. I can't
blame him. He was probably wore down

732
00:57:30.039 --> 00:57:37.119
to a rug. Decision was made
to invade here I was coming and saying

733
00:57:37.199 --> 00:57:40.760
the war could be ending to without
invasion. We didn't make much of an

734
00:57:42.559 --> 00:57:46.440
imprint. So we went back to
the Marianas and kept bombing, right,

735
00:57:47.960 --> 00:57:51.480
you know, But there you go. Look, and this is the way

736
00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:54.599
things function. Sometimes is impossible.
If they were already locked in and had

737
00:57:54.639 --> 00:58:00.840
a decision made his alternative, you
know, fear about how to win,

738
00:58:00.360 --> 00:58:04.320
maybe nobody nobody was going to listen
to it because they had already had that

739
00:58:04.440 --> 00:58:07.880
debate, you know that was already
over. Is just bad timing on his

740
00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:10.440
part. Yeah, but there's something
to be said about all that. And

741
00:58:10.840 --> 00:58:15.920
you know, again, LeMay is
an interesting character and I would say that,

742
00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:20.119
you know, as much as he
could easily be brought up on war

743
00:58:20.239 --> 00:58:23.599
crimes over and over again, he
may have also been one of the better

744
00:58:23.679 --> 00:58:28.199
strategists that we had when it came
to air campaigns. So I mean,

745
00:58:29.239 --> 00:58:31.519
little column Ay, little column B
war is an ugly thing, isn't it.

746
00:58:32.280 --> 00:58:36.559
But anyway, we'll get into that
in future episodes. And I want

747
00:58:36.599 --> 00:58:37.800
people to go, oh, we
didn't even talk about you know, what's

748
00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:42.840
going on with Wall Street Window dot
Com and what you're doing over there,

749
00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:46.440
but you sent out an email recently
over the Christmas holiday to kind of give

750
00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:50.400
people heads up. Why don't you
tell them about that? And then we'll

751
00:58:50.679 --> 00:58:52.440
close this one out. But I
urge you guys to go to Wall Street,

752
00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:57.320
Window dot Com check out Why the
Vietnam War and also The War Stayed

753
00:58:57.360 --> 00:59:00.679
Both books do I recommend, authored
by Mike's Whnson. But Mike just tell

754
00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:04.159
them on your way out the door
what it is you're doing with Wall Street

755
00:59:04.199 --> 00:59:07.199
Window and what it is, Uh, you're you're going to be doing in

756
00:59:07.239 --> 00:59:10.239
the very near future with with maybe
some other websites and things. Well,

757
00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:14.880
with the Wall Street just make real
simple. I'm making it like a weekly

758
00:59:15.440 --> 00:59:20.719
newsletter instead of putting out every single
day and people can get it. It's

759
00:59:20.800 --> 00:59:23.880
just I'm making it a little better
organized to the emails that you get,

760
00:59:24.039 --> 00:59:30.199
so a little you know, it's
cleaner looking and uh, it'll probably go

761
00:59:30.280 --> 00:59:32.480
out every Sunday Sunday. Yeah,
it does look better. It's a weekly

762
00:59:32.639 --> 00:59:37.159
it's gonna be a weekly email.
You were doing it every weekday. Uh.

763
00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:39.360
But also you're gonna you're gonna continue
on with the local news thing,

764
00:59:39.440 --> 00:59:43.599
but that's going to be in a
split off website, right yeah. Yeah,

765
00:59:43.599 --> 00:59:46.079
I'm making another website for that,
So there's gonna be a separate website

766
00:59:46.119 --> 00:59:49.719
for the local news thing. But
you're going to continue on with Wall Street

767
00:59:49.760 --> 00:59:52.679
Window. It's just going to be
uh, you know, your your weekly

768
00:59:52.840 --> 00:59:55.880
news thing as opposed to the the
you know, every weekday and stuff like

769
00:59:55.960 --> 00:59:59.599
that. Plus you're still going to
publish articles, write your own, maybe

770
00:59:59.599 --> 01:00:02.199
publish couple other people's as well,
right, Yeah, yeah, all right,

771
01:00:02.440 --> 01:00:07.320
absolutely so. Like I said again, I highly recommend all those things.

772
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:09.519
Wallstreet, Window dot com, the
book The War State, that read

773
01:00:09.559 --> 01:00:14.360
book you see in the sidebar on
my website with Ike on the front cover

774
01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:20.320
given his Military Industrial Complex farewell speech, and of course Why the Vietnam War,

775
01:00:21.440 --> 01:00:23.960
the first book in a series of
three that Mike plans, and he's

776
01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:28.519
working on book number two right around
now, and we're gonna hear about it

777
01:00:28.559 --> 01:00:35.599
as it happens on the Ocelly Effect
coming up in the future. Wallstreet Street,

778
01:00:35.639 --> 01:00:47.000
Window dot Silver, the stock market, Wallstream, window dot dot Perhaps

779
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:52.119
you're invested deeply, perhaps you're not
in deep enough. Maybe you're thinking about

780
01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:57.760
getting started Wall Street, Windows dot
com, doo dot com. Michael Swanson,

781
01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:01.519
the brilliant author of the War State, understood these trends professionally for many

782
01:01:01.639 --> 01:01:07.400
years, and now he gives you
the benefit of his knowledge. Rollino dot

783
01:01:07.480 --> 01:01:14.679
dot go there, now go there, now go there, now go ahead.

784
01:01:14.719 --> 01:01:17.280
Call it the truth about the day
of Ay assassination. Right, well,

785
01:01:17.320 --> 01:01:21.760
what do you want to know?
Daddy Baker's wild claim Oswald girlfriends he

786
01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:24.480
knew Ruby and Barry answer weapons.
Really, I imagine I could claim I

787
01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:29.840
have four wheels. It doesn't make
me a wagon, but okayal building and

788
01:01:30.079 --> 01:01:32.519
trying to present the murder of John
Kennedy Come on now has a real effort

789
01:01:32.559 --> 01:01:37.880
on the day of pay assassination claim. Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith

790
01:01:38.119 --> 01:01:43.039
Baker in her own words. You'll
get the results for a digital copy of

791
01:01:43.159 --> 01:01:46.760
a book where Walt Brown utilizes her
own words and the known evidence in the

792
01:01:46.840 --> 01:01:52.960
case to get at well a different
perspective. Let's say you can get Judith

793
01:01:52.039 --> 01:01:57.719
Barry Baker in her own words from
the author himself signed if you request it

794
01:01:57.880 --> 01:02:02.639
by contacting doctor Brown at k I
as jfk at aol dot com. It's

795
01:02:02.679 --> 01:02:08.679
a fun book and it actually dissects
the many, many fantastic claims Judithbary Baker

796
01:02:08.840 --> 01:02:15.960
in her own words thormation. So
it's just me dropping in one more time

797
01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:20.480
to remind you that through the end
of January you're gonna have time to sign

798
01:02:20.599 --> 01:02:24.239
up at O'Kelly dot com. If
you sign up at the ten dollars level

799
01:02:24.559 --> 01:02:30.880
or higher on Patreon Oroelli dot com, you can get in on getting the

800
01:02:30.960 --> 01:02:34.679
first decade of the O'Kelly effect.
And that's all the stuff that I produced

801
01:02:34.719 --> 01:02:37.840
through the website. That's all of
the ocell Effects shows that have been preserved

802
01:02:37.880 --> 01:02:42.440
in my little personal archive, and
you'll be able to get that in a

803
01:02:42.599 --> 01:02:47.039
monthly email if you're signed up and
you remember at o'elly dot com. Now,

804
01:02:47.119 --> 01:02:51.039
if you have a membership from before
and you're at that six' ninety

805
01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:53.239
nine level, I will honor that, but you're gonna have to send me

806
01:02:53.280 --> 01:02:58.320
a message to tell me you want
to be included with the email list,

807
01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:01.920
and you're gonna get a ZIP folder
with the MP three's in it. Starting

808
01:03:01.960 --> 01:03:07.559
from the very very first o'celly Effect
podcast and going on through all the shows

809
01:03:07.639 --> 01:03:13.199
I produced, Aaron Franza's shows,
Uncle the Podcast, the Jack Blood Show,

810
01:03:14.360 --> 01:03:19.079
Bob Wilson Show, you know,
the Donald Jeffrey Show, Geez,

811
01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:22.960
Chris Graves right, that guy too, right, all these different shows that

812
01:03:23.039 --> 01:03:25.840
I have produced, some of them
for a short period of time, some

813
01:03:25.960 --> 01:03:31.719
of them for longer. Jeffrey Matt
Show, Porkin's Policy Radio, which was

814
01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:37.039
produced on o'celly dot com for a
while, The Sunday Sloper, which might

815
01:03:37.159 --> 01:03:40.639
come back soon, although it only
had a few episodes last year as a

816
01:03:40.719 --> 01:03:45.239
test run. Will also include a
couple of short attention span DJ theaters,

817
01:03:45.239 --> 01:03:50.760
even though we're not supposed to in
with the archive, email and all that

818
01:03:50.920 --> 01:03:54.360
bonus material. Hell in high Water, all that stuff will be involved in

819
01:03:54.679 --> 01:04:00.880
the first ten years of the O'Kelly
Effect podcast archive. And if you're signed

820
01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:05.880
up at ten bucks or more,
okay, or you're one of those grandfathered

821
01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:11.760
members at six ninety nine and you're
signed up on the website again, you'll

822
01:04:11.800 --> 01:04:15.840
have to send me a message tell
me you want to be included for the

823
01:04:15.280 --> 01:04:19.039
decade of the Ocelli Effect, which
is going to go out and zip folders

824
01:04:19.079 --> 01:04:23.000
and it's going to take me the
whole year to email it to you in

825
01:04:23.119 --> 01:04:28.159
twelve parts. Okay. It's a
lot of material. It's something like five

826
01:04:28.280 --> 01:04:33.639
thousand podcasts, five thousand audio files
at least, So we'll send them out

827
01:04:33.679 --> 01:04:39.199
there and divide them up as best
we can over the twelve month period.

828
01:04:39.719 --> 01:04:42.800
All right. So all that having
been said, I want to thank Mike

829
01:04:42.880 --> 01:04:45.920
Swanson once again for appearing with us
tonight and tomorrow night. We should be

830
01:04:46.039 --> 01:04:50.039
back to live on the Friday night
call in show. I have the Pat

831
01:04:50.119 --> 01:04:56.400
Spear interview to put out from Tuesday
and Hell and high Water will be in

832
01:04:56.440 --> 01:04:59.800
the members section coming up. A
few other things are going out there.

833
01:05:00.239 --> 01:05:02.119
You guys enjoyed t Snyder and if
you checked out the video version, you

834
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:05.639
got the puppy can, so uh, there's that instead of staring at my

835
01:05:05.719 --> 01:05:10.440
stupid face during the discussion. If
you looked at the video on Rumble or

836
01:05:10.639 --> 01:05:14.800
Rockvin, there's been some shorts and
who knows, there might even be a

837
01:05:14.960 --> 01:05:18.800
mild presence on YouTube once again in
a sneaky sort of way for the Ocelly

838
01:05:18.840 --> 01:05:23.639
Effect, because I'm not allowed to
have an ocell Effect channel on YouTube anymore,

839
01:05:24.320 --> 01:05:27.280
but you know, there might be
a way to get a few things

840
01:05:27.360 --> 01:05:30.400
up there. So we're doing that
and we're doing as much as we can

841
01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:33.039
at o'celli dot com. And if
you support us, we'll support your right

842
01:05:33.159 --> 01:05:40.440
to get new and interesting entertainment,
information and education as best we can revelation

843
01:05:40.639 --> 01:05:46.119
through conversation o'ceelly dot com, dot
com, Radio net. Uncle. I'll

844
01:05:46.159 --> 01:05:51.159
bet you remember the time when Benjamin
Fulford said that the Asian Secret Society was

845
01:05:51.239 --> 01:05:56.280
going to dispatch ninja's to take out
the Illuminati, to change the entire world

846
01:05:56.360 --> 01:06:00.880
for the better. That it never's
gonna happen, haven't did it? Never

847
01:06:00.960 --> 01:06:04.280
did didn't. Yeah, because there's
a lot of false promises, fools,

848
01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:09.719
I don't zum. We better not
say, be polite, but there are

849
01:06:09.800 --> 01:06:13.880
no false promises at the Olli dot
com radio network. That's exactly it not.

850
01:06:14.559 --> 01:06:19.599
It's the truth, the point,
white tune, the point. And

851
01:06:19.760 --> 01:06:28.519
this is what I look straight to
the Pointilli dot com this and now oh

852
01:06:28.719 --> 01:06:33.159
Chili dot com revelation through conversation to
use express my caller school. Who's there

853
01:06:33.159 --> 01:06:35.239
anyone else who happens to get on
the air of Jelly dot com if you

854
01:06:35.360 --> 01:06:41.280
not necessarily repleviews dot com or chill
And we are not responsible for any stupidity

855
01:06:41.320 --> 01:06:42.320
which might ensue. Thank you.