WEBVTT 1 00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:36.840 Welcome back to the Path went Chile for part two of our series about the 2 00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:42.679 Blount family bombing this episode, we've had some technical difficulties and we were unable 3 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:46.479 to have Ashley joined us. But don't worry, she's just fine and she'll 4 00:00:46.520 --> 00:00:50.119 be joining us for our next series. Robin, do you want to catch 5 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:53.520 everyone up on what we talked about in our previous episode. Well, this 6 00:00:53.560 --> 00:00:58.399 case took place in Thanksgiving Day on in nineteen eighty five in Tarrant County, 7 00:00:58.439 --> 00:01:02.560 Texas, and involved a man named Joe Blount who was living in a trailer 8 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:06.319 park with his wife Susan and their two children, Angela and Robert. They 9 00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:10.239 had just moved to the area about a month ago and they had Thanksgiving dinner 10 00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:14.159 together and were joined by Joe's brother along with his nephew, Michael Columbus. 11 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:17.879 And then after Joe's brother left, Joe, the kids, and Michael all 12 00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:22.560 decided to leave the trailer in order to go to a convenience store to buy 13 00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:25.760 some stuff, and when they got back, they discovered a briefcase on the 14 00:01:25.799 --> 00:01:29.560 front porch and when they opened up the briefcase, it went off wound up 15 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:32.719 injuring Susan and Robert, but Joe, Angela, and Michael wound up being 16 00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:36.400 killed by the blast, and of course the whole crime left everyone baffled because 17 00:01:36.439 --> 00:01:38.719 the Blounts did not have any criminal history, did not have any known enemies, 18 00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:42.519 and they were fairly new to the area. So they even looked at 19 00:01:42.519 --> 00:01:46.480 the possibility that it could have been a case of mistaken identity and that someone 20 00:01:46.519 --> 00:01:49.400 may have left the briefcase on the doorstep of the wrong trailer at the park 21 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:55.000 because there were some other people there who were involved in criminal activity like drugs. 22 00:01:55.719 --> 00:01:59.799 One possible suspect was a fifteen year old named Mikey Huff who had gone 23 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:04.079 to school with Angela, and there were a lot of rumors circulating that he 24 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:07.520 may have set off the bomb because he had made advances towards Angela and she 25 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:12.319 turned him down, But they never found any evidence to implicate him, and 26 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:15.319 the case would remained cold until the late nineteen nineties, when a suspect named 27 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:21.039 Michael roy Tony was charged with the crime because he had apparently made a confession 28 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:24.199 to it while he was incarcerated in prison, There was no real physical evidence 29 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:28.680 against Tony. All they really had on him was some testimony from his ex 30 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:31.520 wife and his former best friend, saying that they had gone to the trailer 31 00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:37.159 park and dropped off the briefcase containing the bomb. But it turned out that 32 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:39.599 they had withheld evidence at the trial and a lot of the witnesses who testified 33 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:44.439 against Tony were unreliable, So in two thousand and nine, his conviction was 34 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:47.759 finally overturned and he was released from prison. But an ironic turn of events, 35 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:52.240 it turned out that he would be killed in a car accident only one 36 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:57.039 month after he was released, so the case the investigation has been at a 37 00:02:57.039 --> 00:03:00.719 dead halt since then, and there's still some question about who was actually responsible 38 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:06.319 for the bombing. Anyway, cold cases involving wrongful convictions are always extra heartbreaking 39 00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:09.080 because not only does an innocent person serve time in prison for a crime they 40 00:03:09.080 --> 00:03:14.000 did not commit, but the experience also puts the victims family members through the 41 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:16.759 emotional ringer. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to think you have 42 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:21.400 found closure injustice for your loved one, but then find out that the wrong 43 00:03:21.479 --> 00:03:23.360 person was convicted for the crime. So now you're going to have to go 44 00:03:23.479 --> 00:03:28.120 right back to square one. I'm sure it must have been especially difficult for 45 00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:30.960 Susan and Robert Blount because they were actually present when the bomb that killed their 46 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:35.759 family went off, and Robert is lucky to have survived. However, while 47 00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:38.479 no one deserves to be convicted of a crime they did not commit, particularly 48 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:43.680 it involves them being sent to death row, what makes this story unique is 49 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:46.759 that, well, Michael roy Tony really has no one to blame but himself 50 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:52.199 for winding up in that position. There are many wrongful conviction cases which came 51 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:55.000 about because of a false story from a jail house informant, but this is 52 00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:59.439 the only one I can think of where the accused flat out told the informant 53 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:01.439 to implicate hate them in the crime. I mean, yes, it is 54 00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:06.599 ultimately the responsibility of the investigators to perform due diligence and weed out false confessions 55 00:04:06.639 --> 00:04:10.960 like this, But if Tony had not done this, he probably never even 56 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:14.560 would have popped up on the radar as a suspect. Like we mentioned in 57 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:17.040 our previous episode, he seemed to be under the mistaken impression that he was 58 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:20.680 in jail on the night of the bombing and would have had an airtight alibi 59 00:04:20.759 --> 00:04:25.639 to eliminate him as a suspect, but I think he underestimated the feelings of 60 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:30.240 desperation from the investigators to finally solve this thing. They had spent the past 61 00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:33.399 decade chasing down a number of different leads and potential suspects, which never panned 62 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:38.360 out, so once they got word that a suspect had allegedly confessed to the 63 00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:42.519 crime, they totally ran with it. I'm definitely not saying that Michael roy 64 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:46.439 Tony was a good guy, as he had an extensive criminal history and was 65 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:50.639 accused of being abusive to multiple spouses, but it's totally inexcusable that the state 66 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:56.240 fabricated and withheld evidence, especially since it could have led to an innocent man 67 00:04:56.319 --> 00:05:00.360 being executed. I think it speaks volumes that the prosecut wouldn't even put Charles 68 00:05:00.360 --> 00:05:05.120 Ferris, the informant who originally implicated Tony, on the stand during his trial. 69 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:11.040 And I find it particularly egregious that they found this other jailhouse snitch, 70 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:15.120 Finness Blanketship, and got him to testify about a bogus confession during Tony's sensing 71 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:20.519 phase after he was already found guilty. They probably figured that if Blankenship shared 72 00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:25.040 this story during the trial, the defense would have torn him apart, but 73 00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:29.839 they hoped his additional last minute testimony might sway the jury into sensing Tony to 74 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:34.319 death, because if he's executed, he ceases to be anyone's problem. What 75 00:05:34.439 --> 00:05:40.519 really strikes me here is just how little evidence they have, Like it's such 76 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:45.199 a tenuous connection, like he may or may not have confessed, and there's 77 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:51.560 these jailhouse informants. We have no hard evidence to connect him, but yet 78 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:58.040 they seem to be so overzealous that they need to put that square peg in 79 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:01.399 that round hole and get it. Can fiction because it looks bad not to 80 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:06.160 I mean, there were so many others more promising. Who is the neighbor 81 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:12.600 that was like the jeweler, the gun seller, the meth cooker. There 82 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:14.920 were a whole bunch of them. There was a Tim Tortala who was a 83 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:17.439 jeweler, and that was also the gun runner and the drug dealer, and 84 00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:23.680 the other guy named Darren Irvin who was also manufacturing meth in his trailer at 85 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:28.240 that time. Yeah, and wasn't there somebody else who was also selling guns? 86 00:06:28.279 --> 00:06:31.279 And it's like how many guns are being sold in this very small area. 87 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:35.879 It just seems like there was a lot of sketchy individuals, but yet 88 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:41.800 you don't have any concrete evidence here. And when we're talking about death row, 89 00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:46.240 you'd really think that there would be some kind of fail safe here where 90 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:51.519 it's like you have to have a greater burden of proof because you're literally playing 91 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:57.759 with somebody's life. So it's shocking how tenuous this evidence is. And we 92 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:00.319 ranted about this in our last episode about this last jail house snitch, Finn 93 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:05.120 his Blanketship. He was in jail for indecency towards a child, and he 94 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:10.160 got released, he got an early he got a plea deal in exchange for 95 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:14.000 giving this false testimony against Tony. So it's kind of like you're letting like 96 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:16.560 a child abuser out onto the streets just so that you can put an innocent 97 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:20.639 man on a death row and hopefully execute him before anyone finds out you got 98 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:26.279 the wrong guy. And nobody's going to look at that situation and be like, 99 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:29.600 oh, yeah, that was totally worth it, Like this guy did 100 00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:33.879 these horrible things to children, and we're just going to forgive that because he's 101 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:40.519 going to testify at this trial something that's clearly seems to be fabricated or bogus 102 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:43.560 and then we're just going to go ahead with that. Like, the lack 103 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:48.040 of ethics and accountability on the part of the prosecutor on the investigators here is 104 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:55.360 really shocking. The big issue with the prosecution's case is that there was literally 105 00:07:55.480 --> 00:08:01.839 no other evidence against Tony besides the testimony of Kim Tony Nium and Chris Meeks, 106 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:07.079 who both proved to be very unreliable eyewitnesses. I'm not sure if either 107 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:11.839 of them was intentionally lying, as they may have legitimately believed the stories they 108 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:16.759 shared at one point, but one of them had a history of memory loss 109 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:20.399 due to exposure from toxic chemicals during the Gulf War, and the others seemed 110 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:26.720 to be a functional alcoholic, so they both had to be fed information and 111 00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:31.799 have their statements altered and manipulated and ordered a craptic coherent narrative which implicated Tony. 112 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:37.240 But even so, there was still a ton of holes in their stories, 113 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:41.679 such as the fact that they described Tony as having a truck, rifle, 114 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:45.159 and toolbox, which he would not have even owned at the time the 115 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:50.879 bombing took place. There's also never been anything to suggest that Tony even knew 116 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:56.200 the Blount family, and the potential motive which has been presented is the implication 117 00:08:56.600 --> 00:09:01.000 that Tony was hired to kill someone else but mistakenly the bomb at the wrong 118 00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:05.000 location. Well, I don't believe Tony was a model citizen. I do 119 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:09.000 have to feel some sympathy for the fact that he was killed in a truck 120 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:15.200 crash only one month after he was released from jail. We've seen a few 121 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:20.440 sources speculate online that perhaps Tony was murdered as retribution by people who still believed 122 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:24.320 he was guilty of the bombing. But I've seen nothing to indicate that this 123 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:30.240 was anything more than an accident. Since this wasn't a case that hinged on 124 00:09:30.279 --> 00:09:35.240 anything conclusive like DNA evidence, I guess you can't say that Tony was one 125 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:41.279 hundred percent exonerated, as his conviction was overturned because of prosecutorial misconduct, and 126 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:46.879 the state still technically had the option to bring him to trial again if new 127 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:52.759 evidence surfaced. I know that when Tony's conviction was overturned, Susan Blount still 128 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:56.639 publicly expressed her belief that he was guilty, so perhaps she feels a justice 129 00:09:56.720 --> 00:10:03.679 was ultimately served when Tony was killed the truck crash. Indeed, Tony's untimely 130 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:09.960 death does give the authorities a convenient excuse not to perform any further investigation into 131 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:15.159 this case. But the problem is that this only ensures that the real perpetrator 132 00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:20.399 continues to get away with it. Anyway, given the complete lack of evidence 133 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:24.879 against him, I think we can safely rule out Michael Ray Tony as being 134 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:30.399 the guilty party. But if it wasn't him, who was responsible for this 135 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:35.200 crime and what could their motive have been? Yeah, it really doesn't surprise 136 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:39.639 me that Susan Blatt would still believe that Tony was guilty even after his conviction 137 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:43.600 was overturned. I do see in this a lot in wrongful conviction cases where 138 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:46.879 even if the evidence is overwhelming that they didn't do it, I mean, 139 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:52.279 even if they're exonerated by DNA, the victims family still refuses to change their 140 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:56.200 original feeling and still believe that murderer got out of prison. And I guess 141 00:10:56.519 --> 00:11:00.799 this would be Susan's comfort zone because she can still can herself, well, 142 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:03.600 he got out of prison, he was killed in a truck crash only one 143 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:05.759 month later, so I don't have anything to worry about I don't have to 144 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:09.799 worry about the real killer still being out there, and that is pretty sad 145 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:15.960 because we talked about how victims, families, and wrongful conviction cases really get 146 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:20.120 re victimized when these convictions are overturned, and it can often take a lot 147 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:22.600 for them to finally convince themselves that I've been lied to all these years by 148 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.120 the authorities. They got the wrong person, and I didn't get justice from 149 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:31.679 my loved one. And it also occupies such a huge space in the minds 150 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:37.519 and the hearts of those individuals because I guess it depends upon the family, 151 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:39.720 but a lot of people may feel hate in their heart for that person, 152 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:45.559 and then all of a sudden, you have that hate and you don't have 153 00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:50.240 anywhere to place it. Whereas you had a boogeyman before you had somebody who 154 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:54.720 you could blame, but now it's a big question mark. And I think 155 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:58.759 that is really difficult to accept for family members, especially when it's this really 156 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:03.360 attracted timeline. Years and years and years have gone by, and maybe you 157 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:07.080 come to a place of acceptance and it just drudges up all of those emotions 158 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:11.320 again. Oh yeah, Like this was twenty four years after the bombing took 159 00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:16.559 place when Tony was released and killed, so Susan and Robert had to live 160 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:20.200 for over a decade of the case being unsolved, and then they finally catch 161 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:22.879 someone who they're convinced as the guy, and then another ten years after that, 162 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:26.759 lo and behold, they're like, well, they violated to civil rights. 163 00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:28.440 Now they've got to overturn his conviction and set them free. And it's 164 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:33.039 just a terrible way to live your life, having to go through that trauma. 165 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:37.360 And it's even more complex, or made more complex by the fact that 166 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:43.919 they aren't just victims families. They were present during the bombing, and I 167 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:48.000 think that adds a whole other layer because there's often survivor's guilt. Right when 168 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:52.120 people are left behind or they survive, you can often ask the questions of 169 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:56.679 why was it them and why not me? That can be particularly difficult to 170 00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:01.360 deal with for certain individuals. Yeah, I mean to talk about that right 171 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:03.360 now, some of the trauma that Susan and Robert had to feel, because 172 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:07.840 it definitely wasn't easy for them to move on after surviving such a horrible experience. 173 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:13.480 So the thing that really sticks out about this crime is the unusual manner 174 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:16.799 in which it was carried out. A briefcase rigged with a bomb as the 175 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:20.440 type of weapon you would expect to find in a terrorist attack against a high 176 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:24.600 profile target, But why would someone decide to use it to murder a working 177 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:28.360 class family living in a trailer park in Texas. In addition, the Blounts 178 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:33.600 had only moved to Texas from Washington State four months earlier and had been living 179 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:37.559 in the Hilltop Mobile home Park for just over two months. What kind of 180 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:41.519 enemies could this family have made during their short time there. Yes, it 181 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:45.080 sounds like there was a lot of drug activity taking place in that area of 182 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:48.120 Texas during this time period, but no one ever found any evidence to suggest 183 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:52.879 that the Blounts were involved in that. But since it sounds like some of 184 00:13:52.919 --> 00:13:56.120 their neighbors were flat out selling methamphetamine from their trailers, the idea of the 185 00:13:56.159 --> 00:14:01.159 bomb being left on the wrong doorstep and the Blounts being the victims of mistaken 186 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:05.320 identity is not that implausible. It's interesting how most of the family just happened 187 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:09.200 to be out at a convenience store when the briefcase was dropped off. Susan 188 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:13.320 has always claimed that she heard a knock on the front door while everyone else 189 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:16.759 was away, but didn't see anyone when she looked at the window, which 190 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:20.440 is why she decided to go back to bed. However, if Susan had 191 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:24.240 opened the door, found the briefcase, and opened it before her family returned, 192 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:28.519 she would have been the only casualty. This means that if Joe or 193 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.720 any of the other victims were the intended target, the perpetrator got very lucky 194 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:37.759 that the briefcase remained on the doorstep until they got back. Given the circumstances, 195 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:41.759 you can see why investigators would have looked at Susan as a possible suspect, 196 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:45.720 but she didn't seem to have any discernible motive for this crime. And 197 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:48.200 I also have a hard time believing that she would elect to stay inside the 198 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:52.279 bedroom when the bomb went off, because there would still be a risk of 199 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:56.000 getting killed in the blast or being unable to escape the trailer when it caught 200 00:14:56.000 --> 00:15:00.559 on fire. The incident clearly had a traumatic effect on Susan and Robert, 201 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:03.440 who not only had permanent scars on his body from surviving the blast, but 202 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:09.080 was plagued by nightmares following his release from the hospital. In fact, Shortly 203 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:13.519 before Christmas that year, there was an incident where Susan and Robert discovered a 204 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:18.320 box resting outside the front door of their new apartment. This frightened them so 205 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:20.799 much that they decided to call the police, but it turned out the box 206 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:24.240 contained nothing more than fudge, which had been sent to them from their church. 207 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:31.639 Ah, that's so sad. Something is so innocuous as fudge, something 208 00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:37.759 that's supposed to be this benevolent and kind gift can really just set you off 209 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:41.200 and can really trigger you. Just the idea of like a box being there 210 00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:46.799 and the unknown and the fear of what could be inside that box. And 211 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:52.000 I can see why initially they would think maybe Susan could be a suspect, 212 00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:54.919 but what would be her motive? And I remember when I was really young 213 00:15:56.159 --> 00:16:02.600 and seeing the case of like Tupac Tupac murder and thinking or like believing, 214 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:04.559 you know, when I was a teenager, that oh, yeah, Sugar 215 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:07.600 Knight must have been involved. And then you know, as I'd become an 216 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:11.120 adult and think about it, it's like, why would he put himself in 217 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:15.799 the line of fire? This is a very large individual who got very lucky 218 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:19.200 that he didn't get hit with bullets and it would be the same thing for 219 00:16:19.240 --> 00:16:23.799 Susan. Why would she then go into a bedroom. Would she actually be 220 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:30.440 so familiarized with how this bomb would behave Is she like a bomb expert that 221 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:33.639 she knows that somehow she'd be able to survive if she was in this room. 222 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:37.399 I think you would be taking a great risk your own personal safety that 223 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:41.679 it just doesn't even make any sense, oh exactly. And you talk about 224 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:45.440 her being a bomb expert, How would someone like Susan, who was just 225 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:48.240 kind of a working class housewide even know how to build a briefcase bomb to 226 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:52.639 begin with. And of course she really didn't have any motive because they had 227 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:56.759 just moved there a few months ago, Joe had a new job that he 228 00:16:56.840 --> 00:16:59.919 was planning to start the following week, and while there was a small ensure 229 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:03.000 policy on them, it was barely enough to cover the cost of their burials, 230 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:07.480 so she didn't gain anything from this. And you have to feel bad 231 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:10.640 for the church though, like they probably thought they were doing something good leaving 232 00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:14.480 this box in front of their apartment with the fudge, but it's like, 233 00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:18.440 well, with doing this only a month after they've survived a bombing where someone 234 00:17:18.519 --> 00:17:21.319 left a box on the front porch. You can understand why that would be 235 00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:25.400 terrible timing and how such an innocuous thing would be traumatic for them, since, 236 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:27.559 as far as they know, the real killers still out there and was 237 00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:33.440 possibly looking to target them because they survived well. There's no indication that he 238 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:37.680 was ever considered to be a suspect. I've always wanted to hear more about 239 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:42.599 Joe Blount's brother Ray. By all accounts, Susan did not like Ray at 240 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:48.119 all, who was willing to allow him to attend Thanksgiving dinner because he was 241 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:52.440 attempting to reconnect with his estranged son, Michael Columbus. I don't know all 242 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:57.039 that much about Ray and Michael's relationship, but what adds an extra element of 243 00:17:57.079 --> 00:18:03.039 tragedy to this story Michael actually called his mother after dinner to share how happy 244 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:07.480 he was that things were going well with his father, only for Michael to 245 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:12.480 wind up being killed within hours. It's not entirely clear to me why Ray 246 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:17.119 had to leave the trailer at five PM, and I'm sure it might have 247 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:21.319 looked convenient that he happened to be away before the bomb went off, But 248 00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:25.920 I'm guessing that investigators verified his whereabouts and determined that he could not have been 249 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:30.880 responsible for what happened. But I can only imagine how Ray must have felt 250 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:33.839 losing his son and knowing that he likely would have been killed too if he'd 251 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:37.319 stayed there for a couple more hours. Oh yeah, a lot. Much 252 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:41.079 like Susan and Robert. Ray is just another victim in this whole scenario because 253 00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:45.200 he was trying to reconcile with his son because they had not barely spoken to 254 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:48.759 each other in years, because Ray did not get along with Michael's mother, 255 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:53.440 And here they're finally getting together for Thanksgiving and bonding well together. And Ray's 256 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:57.480 probably feeling good about himself because he leaves to go do whatever he's doing and 257 00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:02.160 thinking, yes, this went very well. I'm finally forming a relationship with 258 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:04.160 my son. And then he just gets killed in a bombing like a couple 259 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:07.640 hours later, in a very unexpected way. It's not like a random car 260 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:14.079 accident. He was deliberately killed because someone left a briefcase bomb on his brother's 261 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:17.759 trailer's doorstep. And of course, the only reason Michael was there in the 262 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:21.200 first place was because he wanted to have Thanksgiving dinner with his father, so 263 00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:26.359 I'm sure Raif must have felt a bunch of survivor's guilt as well. Oh, 264 00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:30.160 there's just something that really pulls on my heartstrings about Michael Columbus. Like, 265 00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:34.480 here's this poor kid that's dad is out of the picture, Michael Columbus, 266 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:41.160 who's obviously really excited that things are going well with his dad, and 267 00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:45.920 here he is. He shows up. He's really trying to be that dad 268 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:49.680 that he hasn't been, and he brings Michael over to his brother and his 269 00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:53.000 wife's house to hang out with the kids, get to know the cousins, 270 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:57.680 and then just happens to leave for that little bit. Well, Michael wants 271 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:02.519 to stay and hang out with his cousin and the fact that he even calls 272 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:07.559 his mother and says that he's having a good time, just to know, 273 00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:11.759 like for his poor mother to hear that and to like have it warm her 274 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:17.119 heart, and then to know that her son died shortly thereafter in a bombing. 275 00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:19.559 Like I just have such a hard time wrapping my head around that element 276 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:23.480 to the story. Oh yeah, Like Michael is definitely the ultimate example of 277 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:27.119 being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and it's possible that's all 278 00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:30.480 the other members of the Blount family were in the wrong place at the wrong 279 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:34.559 time if it was a mistaken identity bombing, but you feel particularly tragic for 280 00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:40.319 Michael anyway. It sounds like we have at least two other individuals living in 281 00:20:40.359 --> 00:20:44.160 the Hilltop Mobile home park at that time who were involved in criminal activity, 282 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:48.640 Darren Urban and Tim Tortella. Well, it doesn't sound like there was much 283 00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:52.559 to suggest that either of them might have been the perpetrator. It's certainly possible 284 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:56.640 they were the intended targets, given that they were both involved in dealing met 285 00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:00.039 out of their trailers. I'm sure some of you might be having breaking a 286 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:04.000 flashbacks, especially since there's a major scene in that show where Walter White disposes 287 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:08.400 of one of his rivals with a homemade bomb. There isn't that much information 288 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:12.079 out there about Urban, but he was absent from the trailer park that day 289 00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:17.480 after getting into a fight with his wife. Apparently, when Urban stormed out 290 00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:19.440 of there, he grabbed a couple of pistols and a box of bullets, 291 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:23.079 which caused him to spill a bunch of them onto the ground. So by 292 00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:26.799 the time police arrived there were bullets lying all over the front yard, and 293 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:30.599 since the trailer had been ransacked during the fight between the Urbans, the scene 294 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:37.079 instantly aroused suspicion, but Urvin claimed that his drug dealing operation was pretty small 295 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:41.279 and that he only had one contact in Arkansas whom he did business with. 296 00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:45.400 Since Urvan didn't owe any money to this person at that time, he never 297 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:48.680 believed anyone would have had a motive to kill him. This does paint quite 298 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:52.839 the picture, doesn't it. This guy was just all these bullets around. 299 00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:59.000 I really liked Tortella. I mean, Irvin sounds pretty decent too, because 300 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:03.279 it just seems like there's a lot of criminality within this trailer park, and 301 00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:07.400 so you don't always have everybody who's on the up and up. But it 302 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:11.480 just it's quite the picture you've painted. And also the breaking bad one is 303 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:15.200 that when he does that, he throws I can't remember what chemical it is 304 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:19.039 at Tucco. I know this is the one with Gus Spring where he attaches 305 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:25.920 the bomb to hextra spector clamonk his wheels the bellet will go off the chicken 306 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:32.160 guy. Yeah. While Irvin's trailer was six spaces down from the Blount residents, 307 00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:37.319 Tim Tortella lived directly behind them, so the idea of someone mistaking the 308 00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:42.799 Blount's trailer for Tortella's is a bit more plausible, and since Tortella also apparently 309 00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:48.400 sold automatic weapons to drug dealers, you can see why he might be a 310 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:53.119 more compelling target. It's interesting to read the original newspaper articles about this case, 311 00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:59.920 since Tortella is actually interviewed mentioning that he was inside his mobile home watching 312 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:04.039 television with his brother when the explosion caused the whole thing to shake. When 313 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:08.440 Tortella and his brother ran to the scene, they also helped tend to Robert 314 00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:12.680 before the paramedics arrived, and even tried to enter the trailer to rescue the 315 00:23:12.680 --> 00:23:17.319 rest of the family, but the smoke and flames were just too high. 316 00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:22.400 Well, Irvin had expressed his skepticism over the bomb being intended for him, 317 00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:27.160 Tortella actually thinks that possibility might be true, and is even expressed remorse about 318 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:33.200 it. Around the time of Tony's trial, Tortella wrote in a letter quote 319 00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:37.240 for fourteen years, I felt that it was my fault that those three people 320 00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:41.759 died. There is a possibility that if I wasn't doing what I was doing 321 00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:45.319 back then, they would still be alive. End quote. In addition, 322 00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:49.440 it's also been reported that Tortella was carrying on an affair with a married woman 323 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:55.240 at that time, opening up the possibility that the motive for the bombing was 324 00:23:55.319 --> 00:24:00.279 personal and had nothing to do with his criminal activities. Well, Georgella genuinely 325 00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:04.599 believed he was the real target. I'd like to think he provided the authorities 326 00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:08.799 with the names of any promising suspects who might have had a motive to harm 327 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:14.319 him. Otherwise, it sounds like the investigation into the angle hit a dead 328 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:18.200 end. Well, it's good to know that Tortella does have some sort of 329 00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:22.119 redemption story and that he felt legitimately bad that the Blounts were killed, and 330 00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:25.480 that it may have been because of his criminal activities, because we talked on 331 00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:27.720 the last episode that he was pretty much a jack of all trades because he 332 00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:32.119 worked as a jeweler by day and then by night he was dealing meth out 333 00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:34.839 of his trailer and also selling arms to drug dealers. So this is a 334 00:24:34.839 --> 00:24:40.400 guy who got around and seems like a plausible person who have been the real 335 00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:45.519 target for this bombing, But they just didn't find any evidence. And I'm 336 00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:48.720 hoping that Tortella did turn his life around after this, and that by the 337 00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:52.319 time he wrote that letter at Tony's trial, that maybe he was out of 338 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:56.720 being involved in criminal activity. But now that we know that Tony was likely 339 00:24:56.759 --> 00:25:00.720 not the real perpetrator, I do have to wonder if the angle what's Hortella 340 00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:03.759 was explored again and people are thinking, oh, maybe the bomb was intended 341 00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:08.640 for him after all. He's really got to wonder if he's having this redemption 342 00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:15.119 arc because he's looking back and he's feeling that remorse and he's saying the things 343 00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:18.880 that I was into back then, which would lead one to believe that he's 344 00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:22.880 made some kind of changes in his life. And you've got a wonder if 345 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:29.160 the Blount family bombing was a catalyst for change in his life, because I 346 00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:34.480 can't think of anything else it would be more impactful then thinking that your actions 347 00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:41.400 could have led to I guess the indirect killing because it was meant for you 348 00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:47.839 of these three individuals, and the traumatizing of so many other people like Susan, 349 00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:52.240 Robert, and Ray who were all there that day and survived at Ray 350 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:55.440 had left. But you've got a lot of survivors with a lot of trauma, 351 00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:59.599 and then three people who were deceased. So the fact that he is 352 00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:03.799 able to take stock and look at his life and say, hey, maybe 353 00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:07.839 it was because of me, and he's carrying that guilt at least, that 354 00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:14.400 shows us that he has the ability to feel that empathy and sympathy for the 355 00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:18.240 family members. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, because he was personally there 356 00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:19.920 and he had to help Robert when he was injured, so I think it 357 00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:23.519 maybe caused him to face the reality of what he was doing. So I 358 00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:27.200 think he probably did suspect that maybe the bomb was intended for him, but 359 00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:32.200 he just didn't know who it was. Like maybe he felt that my criminal 360 00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:34.720 activities have pissed off someone, but he just didn't have the names of any 361 00:26:34.759 --> 00:26:38.640 specific suspects to give to the authorities. But I do think that angle is 362 00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:42.759 worth revisiting all these years later, that maybe he did piss off someone and 363 00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:45.640 that's why the briefcase wound up there, but they just left it at the 364 00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:51.839 wrong trailer. And he doesn't really sound like a bad guy aside from selling, 365 00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:55.079 you know, automatic weapons to drug dealers and you know, dealing meth 366 00:26:55.160 --> 00:27:00.480 anthetamine and all that part. But the fact that he wanted to run into 367 00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:03.440 a burning building to try to rescue people. I think that tells you that 368 00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:07.240 there's more than just you know, one side. There's a bit of a 369 00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:12.480 dichotomy to him to Tortella, because yeah, on one hand, he's this 370 00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:15.799 criminal, but on the other hand, he's willing to risk life and limb 371 00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:21.240 to help these family members. And at least he doesn't spilled bullets all over 372 00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:26.519 his front yard. Yeah, he's not like Irvin. So now we're going 373 00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:30.559 to talk about a couple of other potential suspects, including Douglas Raymond Brown, 374 00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:34.440 who was arrested for attempting to sell a briefcase bomb to an undercover ATF agent 375 00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:38.880 only four months after this crime. Brown lived in Azel, which is only 376 00:27:38.920 --> 00:27:42.519 a couple of miles away from the trailer park. And given how unique these 377 00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:47.240 types of explosive devices are, why are the odds that two of them would 378 00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:49.880 show up within months of each other in the same area of Texas and not 379 00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:55.240 be connected in some way. During my original research, it was tough to 380 00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:57.920 get a read on how the authorities viewed Brown, as none of the sources 381 00:27:57.960 --> 00:28:02.640 I could find confirmed that he was officially ruled out as a suspect, but 382 00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:06.720 he apparently did pass a polygraph, and it seems like the authorities leaned towards 383 00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:10.680 the whole thing being an astonishing coincidence. As far as I can tell, 384 00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:15.039 no real connection was ever found between Brown and the Blount family, so I'm 385 00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:18.400 not sure what motive you would have had to murder them, But I do 386 00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:22.480 find it interesting that the undercover ATF agent Brown dealt with only asked for an 387 00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:27.079 explosive device, but never specifically requested that it be delivered in the form of 388 00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:33.519 a briefcase bomb. This suggests that Brown had already manufactured devices like that before, 389 00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:37.200 so you have to wonder if he might have unknowingly provided one to the 390 00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:40.799 person who did commit the murders. Of course, I'd like to think that 391 00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:45.279 investigators already looked into this angle and came up empty. But really, how 392 00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:49.799 many briefcase bombs were floating around in Tarrett County during that time period. I 393 00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:55.160 mean, we have multiple people in this trailer park selling automatic weapons, so 394 00:28:56.240 --> 00:29:00.920 I would like to suspend disbelief here and think potentially there's more than one. 395 00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:06.720 It sounds completely implausible like there has to be only one person that would be 396 00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:11.359 specializing in briefcase bombs in this area. Don't you think? That's what I'm 397 00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:15.559 thinking. So it does make me surprise that, even if Brown was not 398 00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:18.759 responsible for the bombing, that he didn't provide the briefcase bomb to the person 399 00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:22.400 who really did this. So I'm just surprised he wouldn't tell the authorities. 400 00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:26.880 Oh yeah, four months earlier someone came in here and asked for a briefcase 401 00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:30.640 bomb. That person is probably who killed the Blounts, So it is just 402 00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:33.920 kind of astonishing. Maybe they did press him on this and he just couldn't 403 00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:37.559 recall anything, or he just refused to talk. But even if he is 404 00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:41.440 not the perpetrator, I have to think that Brown is linked to this somehow. 405 00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:45.240 It sounds like it. And when they are putting so much time and 406 00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:53.359 energy into railroading Tony, it seems like maybe they didn't explore all avenues or 407 00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:59.720 angles with the veracity that they should have, and they may have just let 408 00:29:59.799 --> 00:30:04.960 the fall by the wayside because they wanted so badly to make that square peg 409 00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:08.359 fit in that round hole. They wanted him to be guilty, and they 410 00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:11.640 wanted him to go on death row for this. So I think sometimes when 411 00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:17.240 you want something so badly you get tunnel vision, and I think clearly that's 412 00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:21.720 what happened with investigators here, which is kind of weird because Tony did not 413 00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:25.279 even pop up on the radar as a suspect until the late nineteen nineties, 414 00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:29.279 so they had over a decade to explore all these different angles with like Brown 415 00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:32.599 and Tortala and urban. So it makes me think that they just hit a 416 00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:36.960 dead end and just decided to railroad Tony because they were just so desperate to 417 00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:41.599 solve this thing, because none of the other leads went anywhere. That is 418 00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:45.680 a bizarre thing that they had a whole decade. You would think that like 419 00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:52.720 that fervor behind needing to railroad, somebody usually presents itself early on, right, 420 00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:57.480 because there's like political pressure or outside pressure from like constituents. People are 421 00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:02.839 going to get voted in you to be district attorney or mayor or whomever, 422 00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:06.960 and when people are expecting a result, you need to give them a result. 423 00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:10.759 But this is ten years later, so I wouldn't think that the public 424 00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:15.240 pressure would be nearly as great as it would have been years prior, don't 425 00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:19.000 you think I think so. I think they just got over zealous because they 426 00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:22.480 heard Tony had confessed to the crime in prison, and of course it turned 427 00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:26.039 out to be a false confession, but I think they had this mindset, 428 00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:27.680 Well, he said he did it, and we're going to make sure that 429 00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:33.359 the sticks, even if this confession wasn't exactly true. Well, because back 430 00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:37.480 then everybody believed that you don't confess to a crime that you didn't commit. 431 00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:41.440 We've now learned that lots of people confess to crimes that they didn't commit exactly. 432 00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:48.599 So it seems like the most promising suspect in the investigation was Mikey Huff, 433 00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:52.119 and his alleged motive for the crime was getting revenge on Angela for spurning 434 00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:56.119 his advances. It does sound like Mike he was a pretty troubled kid, 435 00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:01.640 and there is some circumstantial evidence to suggest he could have been responsible for this, 436 00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:07.160 such is the fact that two mouse traps matching the traps that were used 437 00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:10.759 to rig the bomb supposedly went missing from his home. But we're talking about 438 00:32:10.759 --> 00:32:16.480 a fifteen year old, and while people that young are capable of inflicting horrible 439 00:32:16.519 --> 00:32:22.440 acts of violence, assembling together a bomb which goes off when you open a 440 00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:27.559 briefcase, does sound pretty sophisticated. I mean, these days, a fifteen 441 00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:30.920 year old could probably figure out how to construct a device like that after doing 442 00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:35.759 enough research on the Internet. But this was back in nineteen eighty five. 443 00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:39.160 Your eyes are probably going to roll when you hear this. But when one 444 00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:44.759 of Michael roy Tony's defense attorneys attempted to point the finger at Mikey as an 445 00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:51.559 alternate suspect at his trial, he flat outstated that Mikey worshiped Satan. Indeed, 446 00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:55.240 Mikey did apparently brag about being a Satan worshipper during his teen years, 447 00:32:55.839 --> 00:33:00.359 which is one of the reasons many people were afraid of him. But I'm 448 00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:04.000 not going to take that as evidence that he was responsible for the bombing. 449 00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:07.640 I'm sure all of you know that the nineteen eighties was the height of Satanic 450 00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:12.640 panic, so I have to wonder if this made people think Mikey was more 451 00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:16.839 capable of evil than he really was. Satanic panic, and ironically, this 452 00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:21.359 time it was being used by the good guys Tony's defense team, But I 453 00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:24.079 think it was just an act of desperation to point the finger at him. 454 00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:29.039 But I've covered a lot of cases from Texas from the nineteen eighties and nineteen 455 00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:32.000 nineties, and it seems in virtually all of them, satanic panic comes up 456 00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:36.200 at some point, I mean, on the trail went cold. I recently 457 00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:38.759 covered the Austin yoger shop murders, which took place in nineteen ninety one, 458 00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:43.279 and at one point they went after a woman who they thought was a saintan 459 00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:45.680 worshiper, even though that lead turned out to be a dead end. So 460 00:33:46.039 --> 00:33:49.720 yeah, I mean, I can understand why they would point at Mikey as 461 00:33:49.759 --> 00:33:52.480 an alternate suspect, but the Satan stuff is just for red herring. It 462 00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:58.960 always is. It's so crazy just to think that, like all of these 463 00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:05.240 people got pated of crimes based on this idea of these satanic cult murdering people. 464 00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:09.880 And it was just like this shared panic and delusion all you sweetly across 465 00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:15.280 North America, particularly the US. But it is so crazy, all these 466 00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:20.480 experts popping up that there's all these cult murders, and then it just eventually 467 00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:24.199 it ramps down and people realize like, oh WHOA, Like we got a 468 00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:29.280 little crazy here, Like this was a bit much. People were accused of 469 00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:36.280 murder and convicted of murder based on these ridiculous experts and these ridiculous ideas that 470 00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:42.360 there's all these Satanic cults committing like child murderers and molestations and things along those 471 00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:45.320 lines. I remember in one of the West Memphis three documentaries, they actually 472 00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:50.840 played footage of a literal instruction video that they sent out to law enforcement during 473 00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:53.760 the nineteen eighties and nineties about how to deal with Satanic cults, where they 474 00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:59.320 had the so called expert on screen giving like instructions on how to handle them 475 00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:01.760 if it ever comes up. And I remember Damie Nichols brings up the valid 476 00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:07.400 point, has there ever been a documented case of a Satanic cult being responsible 477 00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:10.280 for a murder while performing a Satanic ritual? And no, there isn't. 478 00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:14.880 It's just like all that stuff is all rumors and hearsay, and it actually 479 00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:20.039 did lead to innocent people being convicted. I actually remember that because I watched 480 00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:23.039 the documentaries. I can't remember how many years ago, maybe like five years 481 00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:28.400 ago or something, and that stuck with me because it was just like, 482 00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:32.239 really, we're basing this on so little evidence, and this is something that 483 00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:38.480 is meant to instruct law enforcements, so they're all being indoctrinated by this idea 484 00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:44.119 that there's all of these cults out here murdering people for Satan and it just 485 00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:49.960 was never happening. It is so mind blowing. There were witnesses who testified 486 00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:53.039 at Tony's trial that they had heard Mikey openly brag about the bombing, but 487 00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:57.920 his explanation was that he did so much as brag, but rather made no 488 00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:00.360 attempt to quell the gossip, as he got off on the idea that it 489 00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:06.440 was helping him develop a reputation. During his testimony, Mikey admitted that he 490 00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:10.079 was once arrested for burglary and sentenced to a juvenile corrections facility by the Texas 491 00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:15.039 Youth Commission, and this only caused the rumors to escalate because people mistakenly assumed 492 00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:20.239 he had been arrested for the bombing. While I don't know many specific details 493 00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:23.000 about Mikey Huff's criminal history, I am willing to believe that a lot of 494 00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:27.800 the stuff which made people believe he was the guilty party may have simply been 495 00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:31.280 the result of him acting like an edgy teenager. When the ATF Task Force 496 00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:36.039 reopened the case in the mid nineteen nineties, they also offered a twenty five 497 00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:39.119 thousand dollars reward for information, which brought in a lot of tips from people 498 00:36:39.159 --> 00:36:44.079 who advised them to take a second look at Mikey huff. But how many 499 00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:47.239 of these tips were based on nothing more than hearsay and rumors. It doesn't 500 00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:52.360 sound like the investigations slacked off when it came to exploring Mikey as a possible 501 00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:55.000 suspect, and the even attempt to present a case to a grand jury. 502 00:36:55.360 --> 00:37:00.159 But in the end there was just not enough evidence to implicate him. I'm 503 00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:04.400 not saying I completely one rule out Mikey as a suspect, but could a 504 00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:07.039 fifteen year old have been capable of getting away with something like this for so 505 00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:13.159 long? I don't like Mikey half as a suspect. I mean, I 506 00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:15.239 can't rule him out one hundred percent either. We don't know who did this. 507 00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:19.679 I just think the probability is low. I don't think he would have 508 00:37:19.719 --> 00:37:22.639 been able to get away with it for so long, Nor do I think 509 00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:27.679 that he demonstrated any type of genius, which I also think you would need. 510 00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:30.760 Like he's not Ted Kazinski here, you know what I mean? In 511 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:35.000 its nineteen eighty five, So he doesn't have access to the internet unless somebody 512 00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:38.119 has taught him how to make this bomb. And I'm sorry Angelus burned his 513 00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:44.480 advances so he decided to bomb her home. It just sounds a little odd. 514 00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:47.239 I'm sure, like I said in part one, that he's been rejected 515 00:37:47.239 --> 00:37:52.320 by multiple other women, so or young women. So the idea that like, 516 00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:57.679 she rejects him, so he's going to commit multiple murders in a way 517 00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:00.000 that takes a lot of forethought, right, It's not just like, oh, 518 00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:05.159 he grabs a gun and he shoots her, because it's impulsive and driven 519 00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:08.639 by emotions. But this is really methodical and it doesn't speak to a fifteen 520 00:38:08.679 --> 00:38:13.079 year old for me personally, yeah, exactly. Like if this had been 521 00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:15.400 like a mass shooting or something like that, or they were attacked in a 522 00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:19.760 home invasion, then yes, I could think that a fifteen year old could 523 00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:22.679 have been capable of that. But to build a briefcase bomb with the limited 524 00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:27.079 information out there, I don't think someone that young would have been able to 525 00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:29.760 do it, And if they did, I'm not sure it would have been 526 00:38:29.800 --> 00:38:35.280 carried out so successfully. And all this stuff about about Angela rejecting his advances, 527 00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:37.360 I'm not even sure if that's one hundred percent true or if it might 528 00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:42.719 just be like rumors and hearsay that's circulated throughout the area after the bombing took 529 00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:45.039 place. I mean, I don't even know if Mikey and Angela even met 530 00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:49.440 each other or knew each other, So he really did have a motive for 531 00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:53.239 a crime of this extent. The thing with Mikey is that while the theory 532 00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:59.239 about him planting the bomb as revenge against Angela does seem a bit over the 533 00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:02.320 top, as we mentioned, it is the only real motive which has ever 534 00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:08.119 been presented for why someone would deliberately target the Blount family. Most of the 535 00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:14.239 other theories seemed to be based on them being the unfortunate victims of mistaken identity, 536 00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:17.559 which would make the crime a lot more difficult to solve. We've done 537 00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:22.679 a couple other podcast episodes on unsolved murders where it's been theorized that a botch 538 00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:29.280 contract hit took place and the perpetrator killed the wrong person, but those victims 539 00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:35.119 were targeted individually, Whereas this particular crime may have involved leaving a bomb on 540 00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:37.920 the doorstep of the wrong residence in a trailer park, which is a much 541 00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:43.079 easier mistake to make. Hell, since the Blounts had only lived there for 542 00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:47.440 two months, perhaps the intended target was a previous occupant of the trailer located 543 00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:52.119 on not number eight. Though I'm sure the authorities probably looked into this angle. 544 00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:57.639 I know that investigators delved into the backgrounds of the other residents of the 545 00:39:57.679 --> 00:40:01.039 trailer park and came up with a couple of promising candidates who may have been 546 00:40:01.119 --> 00:40:07.159 the real target. But here's one more alternate theory. What if the bomb 547 00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:12.119 was not only left at the wrong trailer, but the wrong trailer park. 548 00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:16.159 I don't know how many other trailer parks were located in that particular section of 549 00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:21.679 Texas at that time, But if the real target was not actually a resident 550 00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:25.559 of the Hilltop Mobile Home Park, perhaps that's why the authorities have been unable 551 00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:30.880 to put two and two together. This is actually the theory I think I 552 00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.159 leaned the most towards that not only did they go to the wrong trailer, 553 00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:37.320 but they went to the wrong trailer park. Do you remember the Minnesota we 554 00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:40.400 did a while back about the murder of Matt Flores. Yes, yes, 555 00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:44.760 As you recall, like he was the guy who started a new job at 556 00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:49.360 a software company in engineering company in Silicon Valley and was shot in the back 557 00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:52.119 of the head as he was getting out of his car in the parking lot 558 00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:54.679 in broad daylight. And they were never able to find any other people who 559 00:40:54.679 --> 00:40:58.679 worked at that building who seemed like they could have been mistaken for Matt. 560 00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:02.239 But because Silicon Alley has so many similar looking buildings in the same area, 561 00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:07.079 I've always speculated that perhaps the killer went to the wrong building and the wrong 562 00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:10.599 parking lot, and that's why they shot Matt and why the authorities have never 563 00:41:10.599 --> 00:41:14.760 been able to put the pieces of the puzzle together. And I think that 564 00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:19.000 is a possibility in this case that they spent all this time investigating all the 565 00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:22.880 other residents in the Hilltop Mobile home Park and never found anyone who could have 566 00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:28.280 been the real target. But if the perpetrator went to the wrong trailer park 567 00:41:28.280 --> 00:41:30.280 to begin with, that might be why they've never been able to figure it 568 00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:35.840 out. That totally makes sense to me. I mean, I could be 569 00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:40.719 like, fifty fifty it was meant for Tortella and fifty percent it was a 570 00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:45.199 wrong entire trailer park where there is a motive for what happened. But they 571 00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:50.159 just got the wrong person and they've never been able to tie who it was 572 00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:53.960 meant for. Therefore, they can't uncover the motive and figure out who was 573 00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:58.519 the one that planted the bomb. That would make sense too, because then 574 00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:04.119 you're looking at all these directions and you're just not finding anything. Yeah, 575 00:42:04.119 --> 00:42:07.719 it's not like they would have the resources to check like every single trailer park 576 00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:09.960 in that area of Texas during that time period. So for all we know, 577 00:42:10.599 --> 00:42:14.320 it just slipped through their fingers and they just went to the wrong park. 578 00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:17.880 However, it's also possible that some people have a pretty good idea who 579 00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:22.719 did this bombing, but there's just not enough evidence to implicate them. While 580 00:42:22.760 --> 00:42:27.079 he was still incarcerated on death row, Michael roy Tony wrote a statement which 581 00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:30.920 was published in a magazine called Justice Denied, and it contained this very interesting 582 00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:36.800 passage quote. Since the trial, my family and I have received numerous phone 583 00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:40.000 calls and letters from people saying that they know I'm innocent because they know who 584 00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:44.280 did the bombing and why it was done. I believe the fact that no 585 00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:46.559 one could ever determine the motive is the reason they couldn't solve the crime. 586 00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:52.000 I've been in contact with these people who wrote and called my family. They 587 00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:53.639 have told me what the motive was, who did it, and why the 588 00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:58.559 motive was never determined. Yes, I have learned who the real murderers are, 589 00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:01.760 but they will remain free to more murders unless the investigation is reopened. 590 00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:06.159 No one will listen to me because the case has been closed. End. 591 00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:09.280 Tony then went on to mention that the people who committed the crime live in 592 00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:14.360 the Fort Worth area, and I find it interesting how he specifically used the 593 00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:17.559 word people to imply there was more than one person involved. Now, as 594 00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:22.719 far as I can tell, Tony never publicly revealed the identities of these people 595 00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:25.559 who were supposedly implicated in the bombing. If he had not been killed in 596 00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:30.719 the truck crash only one month after his release, perhaps Tony might have been 597 00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:35.000 able to spread more awareness about the real perpetrators. But I think his death 598 00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:38.239 gave the authorities a convenient out because they could just keep saying that Tony was 599 00:43:38.280 --> 00:43:44.440 the right man all along and have no obligation to reopen the investigation. And 600 00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:47.559 that's a real shame because there are three deceased victims out there who have still 601 00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:52.760 never received justice. However, if a number of people really did contact Tony 602 00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:58.239 in his family about the identities of the real killers. Then this implies there 603 00:43:58.239 --> 00:44:01.000 are still quite a few individuals who know the truth and could break the case 604 00:44:01.039 --> 00:44:06.199 why open. So if you happen to have any information about the Blount family 605 00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:10.880 bombing, please contact the appropriate authorities. Jewels any final thoughts on this case. 606 00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:17.480 My heart goes out to Susan Ray and Robert, who are the survivors 607 00:44:17.519 --> 00:44:23.280 here, and they clearly lost so much, and also Michael Columbus's mother because 608 00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:30.559 they lost everything, and it truly breaks my heart. I don't like Mikey 609 00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:35.119 Huff for a suspect. I think it's far too methodical and sophisticated for a 610 00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:38.400 fifteen year old in nineteen eighty five. I think there's a possibility that it 611 00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:43.119 could have been intended for Irvin, but I think it's less likely than it 612 00:44:43.159 --> 00:44:49.639 would have been intended for Tortella. I like that Tortella was somebody was right 613 00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:53.440 there trying to get in and help everybody, risking life and limb. He 614 00:44:53.519 --> 00:44:59.719 later expressed remorse, saying that the things that I was doing may have contributed 615 00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:00.960 to the and you know, I think about it all the time. He 616 00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:07.360 sounds like he did have a redemption arc, and it sounds like he spent 617 00:45:07.400 --> 00:45:10.039 a great deal of time thinking about it. There's just and I mean, 618 00:45:10.119 --> 00:45:13.400 maybe it had nothing to do with him, And if it didn't, then 619 00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:16.679 he spent a lot of time feeling this guilt over something that had absolutely easier 620 00:45:16.719 --> 00:45:20.920 to do with him. And that would be a scenario like Robin brought up 621 00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:24.920 that I think is completely plausible that it could have been intended for another trailer 622 00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:30.039 park. If it's intended for another trailer park and they didn't investigate that, 623 00:45:30.119 --> 00:45:32.639 then they're never going to be able to make the connection, uncover who did 624 00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:37.880 this, or find out what the motive was. But I truly believe that 625 00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:43.840 this was a mistaken identity on some part, right like whether it was the 626 00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:46.960 wrong unit, the wrong people, the wrong trailer park. I don't believe 627 00:45:47.039 --> 00:45:52.480 that the bomb was intended for the Blounts. Yeah, I totally agree, 628 00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:55.119 And I have never seen another case like that. Offhand, I cannot think 629 00:45:55.159 --> 00:46:00.440 of any many other cold cases involving a briefcase bomb used as a method for 630 00:46:00.519 --> 00:46:05.280 a murder. And that's what makes it so unusual, is that you'd expect 631 00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:08.079 to see something like this and a spy thriller or a terrorist attack, and 632 00:46:08.119 --> 00:46:12.800 you would not expect like a working class family like the Blounts, who have 633 00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:16.239 never committed any crimes, have no known enemies to have like a briefcase found 634 00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:21.719 on their trailer park doorstep on Thanksgiving. And yeah, there are a lot 635 00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:24.239 of victims in this story because we three people lost their lives, and we 636 00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:29.920 had Ray and his ex wife lost, Michael and Susan and Robert wound up 637 00:46:29.920 --> 00:46:34.119 surviving the blast with injuries and having to deal with the loss of Joe and 638 00:46:34.280 --> 00:46:37.400 Angela, and they had to go through the ordeal of thinking that they had 639 00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:40.440 finally achieved justice and seen the perpetrator go to prison, only for him to 640 00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:45.000 be released about a decade later, and the case wind up going right back 641 00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:49.280 to square one. So, as far as you know, I do believe 642 00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:52.880 that Michael roy Tony was completely innocent here. He definitely was not an angel. 643 00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:57.639 He got himself into this situation and he had a troubled history. But 644 00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:00.039 you do not deserve to go to prison for a time you did not commit, 645 00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:05.280 particularly if it means you could be executed for it. And it is 646 00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:07.880 a tragedy that he died in a truck accident only a month after he was 647 00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:12.639 released from prison, and I think if he had been still around and working 648 00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:16.559 to clear his name and spreading awareness about the case and also trying to find 649 00:47:16.559 --> 00:47:21.679 out who the real perpetrators are, I think the investigation might still be ongoing, 650 00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:23.360 and for all we know, maybe they would have found out the truth 651 00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:28.880 about what happened. And I really would like to find out more information from 652 00:47:28.920 --> 00:47:34.000 Tony about who these people are that he was supposedly told were the real killers, 653 00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:37.280 and what their motive could have been. But whoever it was, I 654 00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:40.000 do believe it was a mistaken identity and that they either left the briefcase at 655 00:47:40.039 --> 00:47:45.239 the wrong trailer or the wrong trailer park altogether. And unfortunately, three innocent 656 00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:50.639 people had to lose their lives and two families had to suffer a lot of 657 00:47:50.679 --> 00:47:54.280 trauma and have their lives ruined forever. And because Michael roy Tony is dead, 658 00:47:54.280 --> 00:47:59.199 the authorities don't have a lot of motivation to reopen the investigation because they 659 00:47:59.199 --> 00:48:01.239 could just keep paying the crime on a dead guy, which is a real 660 00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:06.400 shame because this is an horrific crime where justice has been delayed, and I 661 00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:08.559 do hope one of these days we actually get to find out the full truth 662 00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:13.440 about what actually happened. Robin, do you want to tell us a little 663 00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:16.360 bit about the Trail Went Cold Patreon? Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has 664 00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:21.960 been around for three years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like 665 00:48:22.039 --> 00:48:25.760 early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers and sign thank you 666 00:48:25.840 --> 00:48:30.280 cards to anyone who signs up with us on Patreon. If you join our 667 00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:35.960 five dollar tier Tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in which I 668 00:48:36.039 --> 00:48:39.079 talk about cases which are not featured on the Trail Went Cold's original feeds, 669 00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:44.159 so they're exclusive to Patreon, and if you join our highest tier tier three, 670 00:48:44.280 --> 00:48:47.199 the ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer is a audio 671 00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:52.320 commentary track over classic episodes of Unsaw Mysteries, where you can download an audio 672 00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:58.840 file and then boot up the original Unsaw Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or YouTube 673 00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:01.719 and play it with my audio commentary playing in the background, where I just 674 00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:07.719 provide trivia and factoids about the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, 675 00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:12.199 the very first episode that I did a commentary track over was the episode featuring 676 00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:15.800 this case. So if you want to download a commentary track in which I 677 00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:20.599 make more smartass remarks about Jewel Kaylor than be sure to join Tier three. 678 00:49:20.679 --> 00:49:22.360 So I want to let you know a little bit about the Jewels and Ashley 679 00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:27.840 Patreons. So there's early ad free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've 680 00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:30.079 got our Path Went Chili minis, which are always over an hour, so 681 00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:34.320 they're not very many, but they're just too short to turn into a series 682 00:49:34.599 --> 00:49:37.760 and we're really enjoying doing those, so we hope you'll check out those. 683 00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:40.440 Patreons will link them in the show notes. So I want to thank you 684 00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:44.840 all for listening, and any chance you have to share us on social media 685 00:49:44.920 --> 00:49:47.239 with a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciate it. You can 686 00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:51.800 email us at The Path Went Chili at gmail dot com. You can reach 687 00:49:51.880 --> 00:49:54.320 us on Twitter at the Pathwin. So until next time, be sure to 688 00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:59.840 bundle up because cold Trails and Chili pass call for warm clothing. Music by 689 00:50:00.039 --> 00:50:01.559 Hall Riched from the podcasts Cold Collars Comedy