1 00:00:15,519 --> 00:00:20,679 What is bracklacin fellow Thermonuclear A efforts, I had Dana Valley coming at you 2 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:26,199 once more, and as always with my certified fantabulous Thermonuclear AF co host, 3 00:00:26,559 --> 00:00:31,199 mister Grant Hughes, we are on. I'm now sensing we're reaching the end 4 00:00:31,239 --> 00:00:34,759 of our positional ranking series. We're on to the top ten Power Forwards. 5 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,719 Yes, we know how some people feel about positions. We found this to 6 00:00:37,759 --> 00:00:41,640 be fun in the wake of the trade deadline coming and some nice evergreen stuff, 7 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,039 and it was it made me hate myself while I was going through it, 8 00:00:44,079 --> 00:00:47,759 and Power Forwards for me, I hated myself the most, just because 9 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:53,320 dealing with positional classifications on top of a deep field became a bear. Grant, 10 00:00:53,719 --> 00:00:57,359 how are you doing? I'm doing great. I'm I am excited to 11 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,200 uncover the so of your bad feelings and anxiety for this position. And I 12 00:01:03,239 --> 00:01:07,040 am again excited to see how we differ because I have already used up several 13 00:01:07,079 --> 00:01:11,319 guys at different positions that probably belong here, and so we have the potential 14 00:01:11,359 --> 00:01:15,400 for some good discussion. I think at this position. I think so it's 15 00:01:15,439 --> 00:01:19,599 weird because we both I'm guessing you have the same top two. So do 16 00:01:19,599 --> 00:01:23,560 you want to give me who are your top two? Yeah, Yiannis is 17 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,359 one with a bullet I feel, you know, there's no we don't need 18 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:32,120 to even really discuss that. And KD is my number two. I hope 19 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,879 that's your number two because you haven't. You didn't use Kde at small forward, 20 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,159 and it's hard for me to imagine him being lower than two here. 21 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:44,000 So yeah, I will say I had you had Kawhi as a small forward. 22 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,840 I did not why I had Kauhi as a power forward, and I 23 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:53,640 didn't know what to do quite frankly, when it came to ranking like KD 24 00:01:55,319 --> 00:01:59,239 and Kawhi. KDE's been more available this year. There's just there is no 25 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:05,200 comparison for him on the offensive end, and so I leaned KD as well. 26 00:02:05,239 --> 00:02:07,599 So we have the same top two. But would you have put if 27 00:02:07,639 --> 00:02:10,719 you were ranking them positionally in the same bucket, which you did not? 28 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:15,919 Go check out the small forward rankings if you want Grant's thoughts on Kawhi, 29 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:20,159 Leonard, would you have put Kawhi? Just because I don't know how much 30 00:02:20,159 --> 00:02:22,479 of it is recency bias for me, but I'm just looking at the minutes 31 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,319 played and what KD does on offense in general, and it's it's I feel 32 00:02:25,319 --> 00:02:28,680 like it kind of has to be him at number two. You know, 33 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,960 I forgot that you hadn't used Kawhi yet, and I made it seem too 34 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:37,000 simple that Giannis and KD were one two. I think there's there's for sure 35 00:02:37,039 --> 00:02:40,479 a case for Kawhi to be here at number two over Durant, But I 36 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,800 think I still would have put Durant at number two, just like it could 37 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:49,400 be a little better, because I'm still, yeah, not entirely here from 38 00:02:49,439 --> 00:02:53,199 three is just hard to look away from on like pretty good volume and just 39 00:02:53,319 --> 00:02:55,680 you know, I don't know that's a tier, right, I think I 40 00:02:55,719 --> 00:02:59,960 think you stopped the tier after Kawhi, and maybe Giannis belongs by him, 41 00:03:00,319 --> 00:03:04,039 But Kawhi would have been no lower than three for me had I put him 42 00:03:04,039 --> 00:03:05,719 here, and it would have been a tough call. I think, so 43 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,199 yeah, I made it too simple. I think if Kawhi were here, 44 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,000 I would have had to agonize a little bit over who's two and who's three. 45 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,159 I am with you, though Yannis at number one was just I know 46 00:03:14,199 --> 00:03:19,120 there's been some offensive weirdness and Buddy like the free throw shooting and like could 47 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,080 be a little bit annoying. Still is over seventy percent for his career, 48 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,000 though not something I necessarily would have guessed. Uh, but like he's just 49 00:03:25,159 --> 00:03:30,120 even I know the Bucks aren't good defensively, he is still great defensively. 50 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,599 So Yiannis was easy? Was the KD Kawhi stuff? Who did you end 51 00:03:32,719 --> 00:03:36,120 up? So you don't have Kawi in this bucket? Yeah? Did you 52 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,919 have it three? So I had Lebron at number three? Oh I don't, 53 00:03:39,199 --> 00:03:43,520 I mean like there? And I think maybe, well, I'd be 54 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,560 curious if you even think, well, you've still got a bunch of other 55 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,120 guys that I don't have here. So because you've got a certain Boston Celtic 56 00:03:50,199 --> 00:03:52,960 that you haven't listed yet that I think, well, then, honestly, 57 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:58,960 why don't we have that discussion I have that certain Boston Celtic behind Lebron number. 58 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,560 Lebron was number four for me, And it's funny. I think a 59 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,479 lot of people would be like, well, why wasn't he a point guard 60 00:04:04,639 --> 00:04:08,919 or why wasn't he a small forward? And it's defensively now he's just more 61 00:04:08,919 --> 00:04:12,039 of a four. And with Davis playing so much five in general, like 62 00:04:12,039 --> 00:04:15,479 there wasn't no matter how you slice it. Quite frankly, it was just 63 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,040 tough to make Lebron. In other years, I think you could have very 64 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:24,839 very easily, or at least doably made Lebron a three. I don't know 65 00:04:24,879 --> 00:04:30,120 that that's like an option this season. Yeah, I think I don't know 66 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,199 what I would have done if I had had Tatum still here to choose from. 67 00:04:32,399 --> 00:04:34,839 So I did have him over Tatum. And the thing is for me 68 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:40,680 is just Lebron's the better passer. Yeah, and he is just like, 69 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:46,160 yeah, the there's like a Wax and Waney feeling to when he's shooting his 70 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:47,800 jumpers, but like he can still get to the rim at will, which 71 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:53,360 is something that Jason Tatum just can't do. Yeah, And so I just 72 00:04:53,399 --> 00:04:56,199 I mean, I look at the numbers. It's like he's averaging basically twenty 73 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,120 five eight as sis and he is shooting almost forty percent from three. So 74 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:01,360 it's like, you look at him, this isn't last year when he was 75 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,160 shooting thirty two percent from three. He's hitting his off the dribble threes. 76 00:05:05,399 --> 00:05:10,879 So I'm just there's a case for Tatum over Lebron because Tatum does shoulder a 77 00:05:10,879 --> 00:05:15,720 heavier defensive workload, but like just the passing and the scoring or so close 78 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,560 to how would you have put Tatum over Lebron? I guess if you were 79 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,079 ranking them. So it's like the KD versus Quid discussion we're having it with 80 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,959 Lebron and Tatum. Yeah, I guess I would just say, I'm glad 81 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,639 I don't have to make that decision because it will be That's why do you 82 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,279 understand now why this was the hardest one for me? I I almost I 83 00:05:30,319 --> 00:05:32,720 did. I don't know if I did this consciously, but I did divvy 84 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,920 up the positions in the way that made it like so I had fewer of 85 00:05:35,959 --> 00:05:40,879 these kind of like I'm pulling my hair out, you know, close calls 86 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,560 between good players. By the way, I was prepared to do what you 87 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,120 did, and people who've listened and watch know how we feel about the players 88 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,920 on the same team being the same position. I was either going to move 89 00:05:48,959 --> 00:05:51,720 Jail into the two or have him and Tatum both be threes. I was 90 00:05:51,759 --> 00:05:54,879 convinced, but I was just digging into it, and I was like, 91 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,000 he's kind of like a four. Yeah, on defense, And so it's 92 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,839 like when they're functionally just the blurred lines between while he's a point forward, 93 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,000 should that make them a three? I don't care about that as much. 94 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:09,279 So I just I did not think I went into this the rankings, and 95 00:06:09,319 --> 00:06:12,040 I thought I was gonna have him with small forwards. Yeah, I mean 96 00:06:12,079 --> 00:06:15,399 Tatum starts and closes at the four most of the time for his team. 97 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,040 So it's just like, I just think it's more for me. It's more 98 00:06:17,079 --> 00:06:20,959 a case of like, you know, what's the Like, yeah, that's 99 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:25,839 true, but like does he have Well maybe the problem is like there is 100 00:06:25,959 --> 00:06:29,759 really no such thing as like the traditional power forward skill set anymore because the 101 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,399 game has changed so much, so you can kind of just say there's you 102 00:06:32,399 --> 00:06:38,160 know, we could have just totally like gone crazy with this and been like 103 00:06:38,519 --> 00:06:42,360 lead ball handlers, wings bigs, you know, and just ranked that that 104 00:06:42,399 --> 00:06:45,600 would have only been three podcasts though instead of five. We would have had 105 00:06:45,639 --> 00:06:47,439 to do like twenty five players at each position. Though, all right, 106 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,240 so no qualms with what you did there my number four and we moved down 107 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:56,959 a tier. I think here is Laurie Markinen. I will just so I'm 108 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,519 just gonna interrupt and say, so I have him as you have your number 109 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,360 four, I am of my number six, like he's the next player for 110 00:07:02,399 --> 00:07:05,519 both of us. Yeah, so yeah, basically because I don't have a 111 00:07:05,519 --> 00:07:11,639 couple guys here. That's we're actually so far we're we're in lockstep. Except 112 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,519 yeah, that's why I introduction it, all right, So we are in 113 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,120 lockstep, not with positional classifications, but how we ranked them for the most 114 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,079 part. Right, So I'll and you know, I don't know what to 115 00:07:20,079 --> 00:07:23,959 say about him. I think the knock on him is probably that like he's 116 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,839 not a number one on a great team, but he's about as good a 117 00:07:26,879 --> 00:07:30,800 player as you can have offensively that is not quite that level just because of 118 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,680 the self creation is not the same as someone like Tatum Kowhile. It's just 119 00:07:34,759 --> 00:07:38,399 it's just a little different. But he's just an ace shooter on the move. 120 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,120 And he's got i mean size wise, like he is a power you 121 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,279 know, traditional power forward size, and he's playing there more this year, 122 00:07:46,399 --> 00:07:48,879 like in that true spot. And I mean he's had stints in his career 123 00:07:48,879 --> 00:07:51,319 where he's played some five, and he's had stints where he's played some three. 124 00:07:51,439 --> 00:07:55,600 So like, you know, I think that's that's a feather in his 125 00:07:55,639 --> 00:07:59,639 cap is there's there's versatility here that you maybe don't get from some of the 126 00:07:59,639 --> 00:08:03,160 guys for they're down the list. The next guy for me is Siakam at 127 00:08:03,199 --> 00:08:07,279 five, and I think you could justify as flip flopping him and market in 128 00:08:07,399 --> 00:08:11,600 just kind of depending on what you value. But then after that, I'll 129 00:08:11,639 --> 00:08:15,120 stop there and give the floor back to you. But after five, it's 130 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,199 like, I don't I'm not in love with any of the rest of my 131 00:08:18,199 --> 00:08:20,959 my top ten or the order necessarily, but I do feel strong about the 132 00:08:20,959 --> 00:08:24,839 top five. I'm in love with so many in my top ten, maybe 133 00:08:24,879 --> 00:08:26,600 just not the order because guys will ask. So Siakam was my next guy 134 00:08:26,639 --> 00:08:30,879 too. That puts him at seven, which again, when you have Kauhi 135 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,120 and Tatum on this list, it sounds so low, but yeah, look 136 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:35,679 at who's in front of him. Now, this is where it gets interesting. 137 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,240 Is so the case I think we have like kind of the the one 138 00:08:41,279 --> 00:08:43,000 through five might be its own tier, or it's Giannis is in his own 139 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,840 tier, and then you have Katie and Kawhi, or maybe it's Yannis, 140 00:08:46,919 --> 00:08:50,519 Katy, Kwhi whatever. Once you move from five to six, there's like 141 00:08:50,639 --> 00:08:54,840 a fundamental shift. Yeah, it feels like having Lowry over Siakam and some 142 00:08:54,879 --> 00:08:58,799 of the players to come is something I labored over. But I made this 143 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,440 comparison. It was spurred by bad question. I can't remember which user asked 144 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,519 about it, but they were talking about people were comparing Lowry to a seven 145 00:09:05,519 --> 00:09:07,960 foot Clay Thompson, and I was like, he honestly reminds me of more 146 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,879 so of the Golden State Warriors or Kevin Durant. And that is the level 147 00:09:11,879 --> 00:09:16,960 of efficiency and like play finishing that we're seeing now. Kevin Durant was better 148 00:09:18,039 --> 00:09:20,320 because he is a better self starter. But the fact that Lowry can come 149 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,960 in, can play the three or the four holds up defensively. This is 150 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,279 not I'm not making a case for him over Durant. I'm saying, why 151 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:30,600 do you have someone who's more of a self creator below him when we all 152 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:35,480 value the frum scratch creation we're dealing with. Scalability is important. Scalability on 153 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,519 Bonker's efficiency, historic efficiency. When you look at his twos and threes, 154 00:09:41,399 --> 00:09:46,639 it matters, and it makes building out a team around him. That's Lowry. 155 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:50,039 Marketing is the reason why the Utah Jazz have so access to so many 156 00:09:50,039 --> 00:09:54,720 different directions. That's a moment and that matters to me as does like he'll 157 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,080 give you a little bit of rebounding if he's gonna need to play the four 158 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:03,000 more or when he does play. And he's not a sieve on the defense. 159 00:10:03,039 --> 00:10:03,879 No, he's not like a good rim protector, but he has the 160 00:10:03,919 --> 00:10:07,440 size and sort of knows how to use it and he's not super slow. 161 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,679 So that's why I had him over Siakam. And also I'm well, yeah, 162 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,320 we'll Sayvix, I think you're gonna get to that name after Siaka or 163 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,039 maybe you won't, but that was the we're gonna deal with guys who are 164 00:10:18,039 --> 00:10:22,279 coming that are still these better self starters than Larry market In. But Larry 165 00:10:22,279 --> 00:10:28,120 Marketing in his role is a megastar. And because his role exists, and 166 00:10:28,159 --> 00:10:31,639 sometimes you could say, you know, KCP is an example superstar in his 167 00:10:31,759 --> 00:10:37,240 role, but that doesn't make him a superstar. Larry Marketin's role unlocks so 168 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,679 many team building options that that's why I have him as high. And I 169 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,919 think you could even simplify it and just say, like if we're just talking 170 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:48,240 about Siakam versus market In, Siakam is probably the more well rounded player, 171 00:10:48,399 --> 00:10:52,759 like just because of the defense he brings in the facilitation and stuff. But 172 00:10:52,799 --> 00:10:56,159 Marketen has the premium skill, which is just like lights out shooter that every 173 00:10:56,159 --> 00:11:00,279 defense is terrified of whether he's got it at a standstill or on the move. 174 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:01,840 So it's like it, you know, it's kind of just depends what 175 00:11:01,879 --> 00:11:05,639 you're what you're after. And like I, I would have no problem if 176 00:11:05,759 --> 00:11:11,240 if you had flipped those two guys. Let's see, this is where it 177 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:15,559 gets. So so I went Julius Randall six. Oh okay, and I 178 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:20,279 feel like that's hypocritical because we have docked guys for injuries and it sounds like 179 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,600 even though this shoulder injury is not as severe as it otherwise as it maybe 180 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,039 could have been, it's still a long time and it kind of cuts against 181 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:28,679 our hole, like, well, you got him for the rest of the 182 00:11:28,759 --> 00:11:33,679 year in the playoffs. I'm an admitted, like I don't. Randall is 183 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,679 not like my player type, even the best version of him not my favorite, 184 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,279 but like at some point here before those are honestly, those might be 185 00:11:41,799 --> 00:11:43,679 the toughest players, even more than a pure two. Yeah, it might 186 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,240 be the toughest players to build around. They might be better than pure twos 187 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,480 because they're going to have more size. Yeah, but I yeah, so 188 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,840 positionally very easy for me, but just skill wise, you know, I 189 00:11:52,919 --> 00:11:56,120 just don't love his game. But twenty four, nine and five on like 190 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,679 good enough efficiency and he plays a major role for a really good team. 191 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,360 Like, I'm not gonna overthink this too much. I think I think I 192 00:12:03,399 --> 00:12:07,320 feel okay with him there. But you could talk like the guys I have 193 00:12:07,399 --> 00:12:11,399 at seven and nine, seven and eight, I think there's a strong case 194 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,440 for moving up. And I will say, so, I'll get to I 195 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,799 have Julius rand on my list, So I'll go through my list of until 196 00:12:16,799 --> 00:12:20,440 we get to Julius Randall and spoiler alert, there's a couple of names here. 197 00:12:20,519 --> 00:12:24,720 My first guy, I have Zion at eight. I didn't know what 198 00:12:24,879 --> 00:12:28,519 to do with him because at any given point of like whatever, Zion just 199 00:12:28,639 --> 00:12:33,360 might be the like long number. I mean, like even the names I 200 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,840 have in front of him, but like on any given night, you might 201 00:12:35,039 --> 00:12:39,159 just be ready to declare Zion better than Lebron and Tatum. Yeah, I 202 00:12:39,279 --> 00:12:45,440 just the defensive limitations that he still has. And then there's just been more 203 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:50,519 of these offensive pits and peaks really just worry me. And then there's not 204 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,720 so much this year, but there's the injury concerns, and then just athletically, 205 00:12:56,039 --> 00:12:58,960 he still has real pop. But and since we're talking about justice, 206 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:01,200 I don't think you can hold that too much against him. Where yeah, 207 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,159 if you're worried two to three years down the line, but there are just 208 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,120 some nights even now where he doesn't look like the capslock dominant version of Zion. 209 00:13:09,159 --> 00:13:13,440 It's not just because the Pelicans are deeper or better. And then I 210 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:18,759 have at number nine Scotty Barnes, who you had as the three which I 211 00:13:18,919 --> 00:13:22,919 was I railed against under the new context of the Raptors. But for most 212 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,200 of this season I think that you had a stronger case there. I just 213 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:31,399 he's improved so much, and I think the argument against him right now might 214 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,759 be, well, he has not looked completely at home in the new dynamic 215 00:13:33,799 --> 00:13:39,840 in Toronto, But you just traded two of your three best players in Ogiannobi 216 00:13:39,879 --> 00:13:43,360 and Siakam for players in RJ. Barrett Emanuel Quickly who you now want to 217 00:13:43,399 --> 00:13:48,000 be two of your three best players essentially, So there's gonna be some ecosystem 218 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,440 adjustments that need to take place. But Scotty is a playmaker. This year 219 00:13:50,519 --> 00:13:54,679 is better. His interior passing has been incredible. The shooting is real, 220 00:13:54,919 --> 00:13:56,519 even when it's come down a bit as a standstill shooter. The pull up 221 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:00,240 jumper, we've already seen it kind of fade. You can run stuff through 222 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,919 him in the post. And then defensively they have him guarding more like size 223 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:09,120 guys and he's just been a monster. He's already blocked more jumpers outside of 224 00:14:09,159 --> 00:14:13,080 the restricted area this season than all of last year. And like he's just 225 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,600 he's blocked. I think he leads the league and block three pointers as well, 226 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,720 where he's right there. This is just someone who's wearing so many different 227 00:14:18,759 --> 00:14:24,480 hats and actually excelling. It's not purely experimental, and I value that a 228 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,200 ton. And then that's when I have Julius Randall coming in at number ten. 229 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,360 I didn't know there was the injury that factored in. There's you know 230 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,919 the fact that he takes these off the dribble jumpers and even the off the 231 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,799 dribble threes, but then they're shaky percentages on them. He can be This 232 00:14:39,919 --> 00:14:41,240 is a weird thing to say and I'm curious what you think about this. 233 00:14:41,559 --> 00:14:46,000 He's super important to what the Knicks do defensively because you look at the scope 234 00:14:46,039 --> 00:14:50,600 of his assignments, there are very few players on defense. We're more frustrating 235 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,759 than Julius Randall because there are just nights where he clearly doesn't give a flying 236 00:14:52,799 --> 00:14:56,320 fuck. Yeah, and it's so frustrating. So that coupled with the injury 237 00:14:56,519 --> 00:15:00,399 and then some of the you know, is he taking enough three is he 238 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,519 hitting them at a high enough clip? The fact that that question still exists 239 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,480 even though he answers it a lot of the time in the affirmative, That's 240 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,240 why I have him here again. I'm open if you need to have a 241 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,440 discussion like does he belong above z Eyeon or Scotty At this point, it's 242 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,799 it's possible. But you know, the big thing for me is just only 243 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,440 five three point attempts per game and you're under thirty two percent. That's you 244 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,960 know, I get that you're really good and you're he's an All Star. 245 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:26,240 Don't have an issue with it. There will be an injury replacement for him. 246 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,320 But so this was again the names that will get to what I left 247 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,759 off. I'll let you take us there. Power Forward was fucking hard, 248 00:15:33,799 --> 00:15:37,440 man. Yeah, it was hard for me for a different reason, just 249 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,399 because this next chunk is, you know, there's knocks against all these guys. 250 00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:46,080 I actually, so I'll just stick with my list and then if it 251 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,960 looks bad. And I was gonna shuffle around like seven, eight and nine, 252 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,120 but whatever I have, I have Karl Anthony Towns at seven. That's 253 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,519 like gonna bump a lot of people positionally because he's so clearly a center. 254 00:15:56,559 --> 00:16:02,879 But he's played power Forward each of the last two years predominantly. So he's 255 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,840 kind of a marketing case where the premium shooting is just the premium skill that 256 00:16:06,919 --> 00:16:10,159 I really value. And like he you know, defensively, I don't know 257 00:16:10,159 --> 00:16:12,240 that you rely on him. They don't really have to. He's part of 258 00:16:12,279 --> 00:16:15,919 a really great defense and he's you know, i'd say he's been probably break 259 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,440 even, maybe a little better than that defensively this year. But just like 260 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:25,080 that level of shooting from that position with that volume is you know, I 261 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,919 mean, he belongs there. I think at seven. For me, I 262 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:33,919 do have Zion at eight. So I'm like, I had a semi important 263 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:38,279 message. I was answering who was your number seven seven is Karl Anthony Towns 264 00:16:38,519 --> 00:16:44,440 and eight is Zion so a Karl Anthony Towns. Yeah, I mean that's 265 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,039 that's interesting. I wouldn't. Yeah, I guess I'm not like really pumping 266 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,440 him up. I having him at eight at his position, so Towns, 267 00:16:51,879 --> 00:16:55,720 yeah, town seven, Zion eight. I have Paula Mancaro at nine. 268 00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:00,559 I think, like the scoring efficiency is still just something that it's hard to 269 00:17:00,879 --> 00:17:03,680 scoring inefficiency, to be more exact, is something I have a hard time 270 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,519 looking past. But it's a tough role. He's really young, and like 271 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:12,079 there are just nights where you watch him play and you say, like we're 272 00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:17,079 not that far away from teams just like we can't do anything with this guy 273 00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:21,359 like on like matchup wise, like he's too strong, he's too able to 274 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,319 get where he wants like that. You know, he's he's not there yet. 275 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,279 I think he's getting closer. But I'm fine with him, you know, 276 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,119 just at the tail end of the top ten. So kat Zion, 277 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,400 Paolo, and then I just I didn't love any of my other options for 278 00:17:37,519 --> 00:17:41,240 ten, and so here's you can you'll just laugh, I guess, but 279 00:17:41,319 --> 00:17:45,279 I have Draymond Green at ten. Look so so, I mean you have 280 00:17:45,319 --> 00:17:51,119 to look at consider who else was on my list, So like my toughest 281 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:55,000 cuts were, So my eleven was Jalen Williams, JDub, Then I had 282 00:17:55,079 --> 00:17:56,960 Karl Anthony Towns. Then I had Palo Bank Carol. The efficiency stuff just 283 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,880 worries me with Paalo and part of it is on the magic. But like 284 00:18:02,559 --> 00:18:06,480 it's a big deal, I might he was. I think you can make 285 00:18:06,559 --> 00:18:07,720 like I just when I look at the names I have in front of him, 286 00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:11,880 like what is the case for Palo Bank, Caro over Randall or Scottie 287 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,240 Barnes or even Zion at this point is kind of where I lands. Like 288 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,559 that's why he's off. I had Dre though was after that as my toughest 289 00:18:18,559 --> 00:18:22,039 cut. So I don't think that this is given who your names are, 290 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,359 Like you already used Jail and J Dubb for instance, I don't think that's 291 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,240 egregious. Then you already used you also used Kawhi and Jadata as well. 292 00:18:30,279 --> 00:18:36,240 Yeah, so all right, good, So I want to get to part 293 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,359 of the like you know, the Draymond case is just defense and facilitation from 294 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,680 that position that you just really rarely get site the line up data with Andrew 295 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,559 Wiggins and comingo like he's the reason that he fixed it. Dan, it's 296 00:18:45,559 --> 00:18:48,319 not a problem anymore. The worst, the worst two man combos now the 297 00:18:48,319 --> 00:18:51,920 best. It's it's all Draymond. He just solved the problem. He just 298 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:53,319 had to. You put him out there with somebody and he figures out how 299 00:18:53,319 --> 00:18:59,319 to make them work. Names I didn't include that, I I probably I 300 00:18:59,319 --> 00:19:03,799 don't know that there's case for the top three for me. Aaron Gordon just 301 00:19:03,079 --> 00:19:07,880 like that's another role playing guy though that this season buddy. Beyond that, 302 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,559 Yeah, the shooting is if he but again, I'm not gonna forget the 303 00:19:11,599 --> 00:19:15,599 playoff runs and and just the theory of what he brings defensively and as a 304 00:19:15,599 --> 00:19:18,640 playmaker. At the four. Jeremy Grant had him as a four. He 305 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,480 didn't quite make it. Tobias Harris, I had him as a four, 306 00:19:21,599 --> 00:19:23,839 didn't quite make it. I'm not sure if there's any other like egregious. 307 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:29,920 Did you say not egregious? But I also considered on my long list, 308 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,440 Cam Johnson, Kyle Kuzma. I think that was that's those guys were threes 309 00:19:34,599 --> 00:19:37,319 more threes for me. But yeah, Cam, Cam would definitely have gotten 310 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,480 some consideration. I just want to make sure I'm really not forgetting. Yeah. 311 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,079 Oh, Jalen Johnson was also tough. Yeah, he just did there 312 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,599 was he missed some time already And it's like, does he do enough, 313 00:19:48,319 --> 00:19:52,599 like offensively that's not solely complimentary, and is he good enough to like he's 314 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,079 a very he's gonna get paid and I think he's a fantastic player. But 315 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,599 like that was someone who I also had on my list, Like we wouldn't 316 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,640 have thought of these guys, but like Boya and Bogdanovich, Kelvin Johnson, 317 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,079 both those guys are diminished from I think where they're where they would have been 318 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,519 viewed last year. Not a lot. Jabari Smith junior on the rise but 319 00:20:11,599 --> 00:20:15,200 not there yet. Tari Easton is basically a four too. That would have 320 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,359 been an interesting one. Yeah, I mean if you look at EPM Easton, 321 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,400 Easton's not quite top ten, but he's like not that far from Zion 322 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:26,920 and Pallo in terms of so future Utah Jasmine Tars, Jonathan Kaminga. I 323 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,720 mean, obviously this version of Kaminga man is it? How sad is it? 324 00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:36,000 Where would Wiggins have ranked on this list after the title and I didn't 325 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,079 consider him for three or four at all. If if we had done small 326 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,200 forward rankings after the title, Wiggins would have been like top eight, I 327 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,559 think right, Like you couldn't put him anywhere else. He looked like one 328 00:20:47,559 --> 00:20:49,920 of the best wing defenders in the league and he was getting me scoring in 329 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,680 the teams, Like that's just that's that's Michel Bridges esque. Like he would 330 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,359 have been up there in that range. I think, why these new mac 331 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,559 effects? Did you just see the balloons rise up? And I thought you 332 00:21:00,559 --> 00:21:06,119 had were having a party in there during our podcast with Carter Rodriguez, I 333 00:21:06,279 --> 00:21:10,240 like, I moved my hands and fireworks started going off. It was the 334 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,960 most bizarre thing. Are you magical? Do you have? Like? Is 335 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,480 that it? I so, what's interesting? And I think we should talk 336 00:21:17,519 --> 00:21:18,640 about this because we haven't put the centers one out yet. By the way, 337 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,759 I didn't even consider and I don't know if I would have Miles Bridges 338 00:21:23,599 --> 00:21:29,640 this like I didn't know I have him and Mobley as a five because the 339 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,720 staggering and I don't know that he would have on your list. He probably 340 00:21:33,759 --> 00:21:36,039 has a case above Dre. I don't know if he has a case above 341 00:21:36,039 --> 00:21:37,640 anybody else on my list. He's not cracking it even if he was a 342 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,720 power forward. But like him and Jared Allen are staggered enough. That was 343 00:21:41,759 --> 00:21:45,640 the team because I separated Cat and go Bear clearly like that was the team. 344 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,400 I was looking at how many minutes they play separately, And of course 345 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,400 Mobley has missed a ton of time this year he's back. Now, that 346 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:52,680 was a team. I was like, noo, these dudes are both centers. 347 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,319 Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's right. It does 348 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,279 feel a little incongruous if we're gonna if I I'm allowed to use Cat here, 349 00:22:00,599 --> 00:22:03,519 and like I would only consider Mobi a five, I did think of 350 00:22:03,519 --> 00:22:07,720 Mobley as a five. I will say I was a little bit more consistent 351 00:22:07,759 --> 00:22:11,799 with this than you were then because I have Mobley and Jared Allen are my 352 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,799 only exception. You had Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum were both both threes. 353 00:22:15,839 --> 00:22:18,960 Paul George and Kawhi are both point guards or whatever. Like what, I'm 354 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,079 all over the place, Dan, Just do it, do what you feel. 355 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:22,640 That was my approach to this exercise. What with your heart? I 356 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,319 respect it. Yeah, I went with my heart. I just this guy 357 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:27,920 feels like a three to me, So I'm gonna go with it. Can 358 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,920 you do you want to recap your top ten power forwards? Yeah? My 359 00:22:32,039 --> 00:22:36,079 number one power forward is Yiannis. We agree there. Number two is KD 360 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,759 number three. I have Lebron number four, Lowry Markinen number five, Pascal 361 00:22:40,799 --> 00:22:45,720 Siakam, Julius Randall six, Kat at seven, Zion at eight, Paalo 362 00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:49,680 Bancaro at nine, and Raymond Green at ten. So I have Giannis at 363 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:55,039 one, I have KD at two, Kawhi at three, Lebron at four, 364 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,240 Tatum at five, Lowry Marketing at six, Pascal Siakam at sian, 365 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,480 Zion, Williamson at eight, Scotty Marnes at nine, Julius Randall at ten. 366 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:08,039 So Man two notes on this, think about how much the game has 367 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:14,680 changed or how old we're all getting the fact that like KD and Lebron like 368 00:23:14,799 --> 00:23:17,319 just weren't even considerations for me three, it is like, no, these 369 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:18,559 guys are just fours now, yeah, like that's just where we're at. 370 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,519 And then Zion being eight, and then it doesn't feel too high. But 371 00:23:23,559 --> 00:23:26,359 it's like I'm looking at the names in front of him for mine and I'm 372 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,519 like, Okay, are you really mad. You can't be at my top 373 00:23:29,559 --> 00:23:30,480 five if you're mad, Zion's not in it. I don't know what to 374 00:23:30,519 --> 00:23:33,920 tell you. But like Lowry and Siakam, like, I guess that's the 375 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,039 debate. So it's like, Zion at eight feels so low, and then 376 00:23:37,039 --> 00:23:40,240 I'm looking at yours and I'm like, maybe it really isn't. Like he's 377 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,400 not going to crack your top three, that's for sure, And so it's 378 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,759 like Zion eight feels low and then it doesn't. At the same time that 379 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,160 weird, Well, like the best version. It's interesting, like you can't 380 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,880 talk about the best version of Randall or Cat or Siakam in the same way 381 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,759 you can talk about the best version of Zion, which we which I think 382 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,519 if you got peaked Zion whatever that means, or if we ever it again, 383 00:24:00,759 --> 00:24:03,240 he probably is like, you know, right there with Lebron or even 384 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,640 you know, somewhere there. But like, and that's just not true for 385 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,759 those other guys, but I'm not I guess what. I guess him being 386 00:24:10,799 --> 00:24:12,880 at eight for both of us is kind of an admission that we're not we 387 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:18,880 don't think we're getting the twenty seven a game on sixty five percent true shooting 388 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,599 version of Zion again, which is kind of blasphemous because while there are guys 389 00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:25,839 I would love for New Orleans to have instead of what their roster looks like 390 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,160 right now, I'm so unbelievably high on the Pelicans still, but like, 391 00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:32,000 I don't for me, it's more of an emission that I don't know what 392 00:24:32,039 --> 00:24:36,200 to think of Zion now or later. At this point, I'm pretty anchored. 393 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,680 I mean, this is not a good quality, but I'm pretty anchored 394 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:44,000 on like the idea that we've seen the best of Zion already. I think 395 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,680 he and he's not that so part of that is last year he was an 396 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:52,559 MVP candidate before he got injured, So like that's not too ludicrous to say, 397 00:24:52,559 --> 00:24:56,640 but it's very sad to think because Zion Williamson is twenty three years old, 398 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,359 right, yeah, So do you want to take this out of here? 399 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,119 On the uh, Paolo, you just didn't the inefficiency was the issue 400 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,440 for for not having Ben Caro in the top ten. Just so, what 401 00:25:06,519 --> 00:25:11,799 is the name on my list that he bumped? It's I guess if you 402 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,519 like, are you just gonna say I think and we haven't really touched upon 403 00:25:15,519 --> 00:25:18,039 this they're gonna be. People say, well, you should reward winning, 404 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,759 and you know what, Magic haven't been winning lately. They have like a 405 00:25:21,759 --> 00:25:27,519 bottom three offense over the past, like since December fifteenth basically, So there's 406 00:25:27,759 --> 00:25:32,920 if you want to say him instead of I think the only ones where they're 407 00:25:33,079 --> 00:25:37,839 I would listen would be Scottie Randall and maybe Zion. But like my top 408 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,839 seven, it's just sort of like, I don't know, I wish it 409 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:48,480 was him, look him and not even having Cat like because I already spoiled 410 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,079 it. I don't have Cat listed with my centers not having Cat top ten, 411 00:25:51,519 --> 00:25:52,880 I know, I thought Rudy Gobert should have been all start like. 412 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,319 That's also kind of wild, that's true. Well, yours is just so 413 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,440 much harder because you had to fit Kawhi and Tatum. I had a lot 414 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,119 more like. It didn't get any easier. It's not like it made centers 415 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,640 easier for me, And it made the field of small forwards so shallow that 416 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,799 then it made small forwards more comple I should have went with you and done 417 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:14,759 what was better for my heart and my chest. That's a good spot to 418 00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:18,279 go. That's power forwards, folks. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. 419 00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:19,960 If you watch, let us know what you think, what you agree 420 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,000 with, what you disagree with. Follow us on our socials, rate reviews, 421 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,799 subscribe, thumbs up, Tell your friends, Tell your enemies you know 422 00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:32,319 the drill. At this point links to our discord and merch art and YouTube 423 00:26:32,319 --> 00:26:36,039 and podcasts. Close, as always with a shout out to Frank Milakina and 424 00:26:36,079 --> 00:26:37,400 an apology to Jared Allen