We have an active shooter, we have an acre, shoots go ahead of
me quier with a mass casualty. Welcome to Active Shooter, a podcast that
covers the wys, the hows, and the aftermath of active shooter and mass
casualty events. I have an active shooter in the building. A teching call
says they are big attacks. We got shots fliers four fifteen asl Brouge ninety
one. So I'd like, oh, I'm at a fire, active shooter
or it's of an active shooter, active shooter, active shooter of mash casualty
incidents. Thank you for listening. You are listening to Active Shooter, a
podcast that may contain adult themes, explicit language, and graphic depictions of violence.
Portions of this show may be traumatic for those under eighteen. Listener discretion
is advised, at least on the surface. Some sense of normalcy may return
to Salt Lake City's Trolley Square Mall Wednesday. It will reopen for the first
time since a teenager went on a deadly shooting rampage Monday night. But for
police in the community, some big questions remain. What drove a young man
to take this position? What can we do as a community to ensure that
it doesn't happen again. Well, youse, say, eighteen year old went
to the mall just before seven pm, dressed in a trench coat and armed
with a shotgun and thirty eight caliber pistol. He shot and killed five people
and critically wounded four others before being killed by police. It's been seventeen years
since the shooting at the Trolley Square Mall in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Only fifteen years old, the youngest shooting victim, never got the chance to
experience that many years in this world. One of the shooting survivors has since
passed away, likely due to complications from the lifelong injuries he sustained in the
shooting. The aftermath, even so many years later, shows us just a
glimpse of the struggles that shooting victims and their families. Shooting survivors and their
families, and even witnesses grapple with days, months, years, and even
decades later. Injuries can last for a lifetime and impact everyday life, and
memories can linger in the depths of the minds coming out to torture those survivors
every time they hear about the next mass shooting. Today's case is dedicated to
the lives and memories of the four injured survivors Carolyn Tuft, aj Walker,
Sean Muns, and Stacy Hansen, and the five shooting victims Jeffrey Walker,
Vanessa Quinn, Kirsten Hinckley, Brad Frantz, and Theresa Ellis. Active Shooter
the podcast is a High five Holly production, and I'm your host j T.
If you've listened to our prior episodes, you know that the Active Shooter
podcast team has taken THEE No Notoriety pledge and we will not be sharing the
real name to the shooters that we cover. We will be giving the shooters
a pseudonym and refer to them by that name throughout the episode. This will
help in clearing up any confusion in the story while remaining true to our pledge
in not naming the shooter by their actual name. We will refer to today's
shooter as Xander. Monday, February twelfth, two thousand and seven, was
a typical day in Salt Lake City, Utah. It was a mild,
late winter evening with occasional stretches of cloud cover For eighteen year old Xander.
However, the day was anything but normal. Today was his last day alive.
He intended to and in fact did, shoot and murder five people while
injuring another four people before exchanging gunfire with police, who ultimately shot and killed
Xander. It was approximately six forty five pm when Xander rolled into the parking
structure at the Trolley Square Mall in Salt Lake City. He parked his Burgundy
Mazda six two six and exited the car carrying a backpack that was loaded with
ammunition, a twelve gage Mosburg Maverick eighty eight security six shot pump action shotgun
and a Smith and Wesson Model thirty six thirty eight caliber revolver. He walked
with purpose while simultaneously retrieving the shotgun from the backpack. When he caught sight
of Jeffrey and A J. Walker, a father and son who were walking
towards their own parked vehicle. Xander's shot and hit them both. Jeffrey Walker
immediately fell to the ground dead in an instant. AJ was shot twice,
once in the head and once in the ankle, but he still managed to
run back into the corridor with the staircases leading to the lower level of the
structure. While AJ ran for his life. Xander approached Jeffrey and again began
shooting the already dead man. Fifty three year old Jeffrey Walker was born on
December twenty second, nineteen fifty four, in San Bernardino, California. Much
of his childhood was spent in the Northern California region. Jeffrey met his soulmate,
Vicki, and the couple was married on June twenty ninth, nineteen eighty
four, and together they began their family that consisted of two sons and two
daughters. Jeffrey was a proud active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter day Saints and was well known for his giving nature and was described as
someone who often places the needs of others above his own. He was incredibly
family oriented, preferring to spend all of his free time with family and loved
ones. Jeffrey is survived by his beloved Vicki and their four children and three
grandchildren. Minutes after the initial gunshots, the Salt Lake City Police Department's dispatch
center got the first call reporting an active shooter at the Trolley Square Mall's parking
structure. Law enforcement units were dispatched immediately, Xander proceeded to the west entrance
of the parking structure and walked out into the open, where each individual who
happened to be in the vicinity suddenly became extremely vulnerable to an attack they could
never prepare for. Indeed, the next person that came into contact was Xander.
Thirty four year old Shawn Munns had just parted ways with his wife and
kids. The family was out for a birthday dinner. You can imagine how
such a joyous occasion was juxtaposed against the horror and tragedy that was set to
follow. Sean was about thirty yards away from Xander when he was shot twice
in the back. The jolt from the bullets caused Sean to fall. He
managed to get up and run into the now defunct Hard Rock Cafe, where
he alerted others to the active shooter. Seawn also called his wife and hollered
for her to turn around and drive away from the mall. Sewn survived his
injuries, but the effects of those injuries will be felt for a lifetime.
He had seventy five to one hundred metal pellets lodged in his body, which
can cause lead poisoning, so Schenre was required to take specific medication several times
per day for removing lead. Xander quickly walked up to the mall's entrance when
a teenage girl was walking towards him, her inside the mall and him outside.
The girl heard a disturbance outside of the mall and was going to check
things out when she suddenly saw a man lower a shot gun and shoot twice
at the doors. She stood before the glass in front of her exploded,
yet miraculously she was not hit. She ran into a store near by,
where she was able to hide. Meanwhile, Xander entered the mall and headed
towards the west stairs. A security guard spied Xander at the same time that
Xander spotted him. He raised the weapon and shot several times at the guard,
but he missed. Bullet struck the ceiling, causing to breed a fall
from above and likely made the scene appear as chaotic and confusing as it surely
felt. Xander continued through the mall when he noticed Vanessa Quinn running in the
opposite direction. Using the thirty eight handgun. Xander shot at Vanessa and struck
her in the chest. She fell to the ground, and just like with
Jeffrey. Xander walked up to the young woman and shot her in the back
of the head execution style, except he had already killed her. This was
just overkill, and it was. It is disturbing and an utterly terrifying display
of pure evil. Twenty nine year old Vanessa Quinn was born on February eighth,
nineteen seventy eight. She met her husband Rich in Cincinnati, Ohio,
in nineteen ninety nine, and they were inseparable from that day until her death.
An athlete and adventure seeker, Vanessa and Rich took a leap and moved
to Utah after she landed a job with overstock dot Com. The couple loved
animal and took in strays often, and Vanessa even considered the animals her children.
She is survived by Rich and the animals they shared at the time.
After killing Vanessa, Xander entered a card store called Cabin Fever. Several people
were hiding inside of the store when Xander initially walked past the store, but
he backtracked and entered, though the reason why can never be known. Inside
of Cabin Fever, fifty three year old Stacy Hansen was crouched down near a
window. When Xander caught his eye. Stacey said to Zander quote, we
all have families we love and just want to go home, to which Xander
replied for the other man to shut up, before lowering the gun and shooting
Stacy in the stomach and arm. The window that Stacy was under shattered from
the bullets, raining pieces of glass down on Stacy, who fell face first
into the glass. Stacy was severely injured, and though he survived the injuries,
his recovery was anything but swift. While he remained an incredible and positive
force throughout, Stacy was forced to undergo numerous surgeries and was wheelchair bound for
the remainder of his life. Sadly, he passed away on November fifth,
twenty twenty three. Elsewhere in the store, forty four year old Caroline Tuft
was hiding by a display towards the front entrance, and her daughter Kirsten was
nearby. Xander approached Carolyn and shot her, striking her left side and arm.
She was injured, but she was alive. The same could not be
said for Kirsten, who was shot in the torso and killed. She was
fifteen years old and taken from this world too. Soon. Kirsten was born
on June ninth, nineteen ninety one, in Salt Lake City to parents Carolyne
Tuft and Stephen Hinckley. An intelligent sophomore at Brighton High School, she planned
to attend Bartletter College in England after graduation. A true friend to all,
she was known as extremely loyal and was someone you could spill all of your
secrets to. The kind hearted friend. Sister and daughter will be fiercely missed,
and the loss and pain her mother still suffers fro him is immeasurable.
Twenty four year old Brad France and twenty nine year old Teresa Ellis were patronizing
cabin Fever when the gunman entered. They were a newer couple, but they
loved each other and they died together. Brad was born on June twe twenty
second, nineteen eighty two, to June Carmel Steglik and Daniel ted Frantz.
He graduated from Highland High School in two thousand before going on to work for
Eagle pre Cast Company. Before his death, Brad was promoted to erection lead
man, which was his greatest professional triumph. His daughter and Theresa were his
most treasured personal relationships. Teresa was born on January twenty sixth, nineteen seventy
eight, in Jamestown, New York. She was raised as sort of a
theater kid, acting in school plays and singing. She played trumpet and piano
in high school, but she had a wide variety of interests, including traveling
and scrap booking. The young lovers were out for an early Valentine's dinner on
an average day that ended most tragically. There was another customer who was left
unharmed hiding near a clothing wreck, and they must have nearly passed out from
relief when Xander suddenly exited the store. Carolin Tuft was able to crawl to
her daughter, Kirsten went out of nowhere. Xander burst back into the store
and shot Kirsten once more in the head before he just as abruptly exited.
When Xander walked out of cap'n Fever the second time, an off duty Ogden
police officer named Ken Hammond was walking across the second floor of the mall with
his wife. The couple had just finished dinner at Rodizio Grill. Officer Hammond
saw the shooter exiting cap'n Fever with a shotgun, and without hesitation, he
drew his off duty weapon instructed his wife to go back into the restaurant and
call nine one one. He then approached Xander, calling out that he was
an off duty police officer. Xander fired at Officer Hammond before heading towards the
center hallway. Watching this all unfold from inside of a store called Harouns,
Barrett Dodds became aware of the active shooter. He ordered a customer to lock
the door before he left the store and walked towards the hallway on the second
level. Xander saw Barrett and fired the shotgun at him and a couple of
employees from a nearby restaurant. Xander walked purposefully back towards one of the earlier
shooting victims, Stacy Hansen, and shot him again in the back. Barrett
Dodds then heroically started yelling to Xander, quote shoot at me, Shoot at
me. Xander began walking towards pottery Barn Kids. As this was happening,
Officer Hammond peered down the main level and saw Salt Lake City Police Sergeant Andrew
Oblod enter the mall, so he called out to the sergeant that he was
an off duty Ogden police officer Sergeant Andrew Oblod arrived at the mall, and
the first thing he noted were the petrified shoppers racing out of the mall screaming
that there was a man with a shotgun. When he entered the mall,
Sergeant Oblod heard Officer Hammond and saw him above on the second level. He
motioned for Hammond to come down to the first level, which he did.
Together, the two officers heard shotgun blasts. Officer Hammond took cover behind a
pillar near the Pottery Barn Kid's Store, which he peered into he could see
a portion of Xander's body and part of a shotgun. He leaned around the
pillar and fired at Xander, who immediately fired back. Hammond once again leaned
around the pillar and fired off two more rounds. Sergeant Oblod ordered Xander to
drop his weapon. Xander simply replied, in a sullen voice, quote,
ook you, before firing at the officers again. The moment Xander stepped into
the sergeant's line of sight, he fired twice. Unbeknownst to Xander, several
Salt Lake City Police officers, including Detective Dustin Marshall, Detective Brett Olsen and
Sergeant Josh Schlarman had approached from behind, fronted him, and after additional gunfire
was exchanged, the threat was finally stopped. The shooter was killed. Salt
Lake City p Deep Crime Scene Unit, along with the Utah Department of Public
Safety Crime Lab arrived shortly after to process the scene. Twenty nine shellcasings and
nineteen nine millimeter shell casings were located, along with live shotgun shells, bullet
fragments, and several shotgun wads. This included shots fired from police and shooter.
Xander's car was searched and his license, an SLC library card, and
a receipt for the shotgun bullets were found. Additionally, Xander's house, which
he lived in with his parents, was searched. When law enforcement arrived,
they were tasked with giving a death notification that was served with a request to
search the residents and most especially Xander's room. Xander's parents were visibly upset and
didn't appear to have any clue what their son had done. The news was
breaking all over TV, which was playing inside of their living room. The
couple just never dreamed it was their boy who could be responsible for so much
devastation. They seemingly cooperated fully with police, providing all information they knew or
thought might help. Xander lived in the basement of his home. The basement
was made up of two rooms and a utility room. Inside of his bedroom
was his bed, which you'd expect. It was what sat on the bed
that was noticeable. There was an empty shotgun case that was partly concealed by
a pile of clothing. In the closet was a metal lock box that sat
unlocked and empty. On the nightstand sat Xander's resident Alien identification card, social
Security card, a gun cleaning kit, a check book, a Muslim prayer
book, and a receipt showing the purchase of a Mosburg shotgun. The only
thing the police didn't seem to find was an answer or reason for why this
horrific shooting took place. There was no manifesto, no note, nothing.
Xander was born on October sixth, nineteen eighty eight, in Cerska, which
is a town in the Vilsenica municipality of Herzegovina and Bosnia. His family immigrated
to the United States in nineteen ninety eight. When he was nine. Xander
became a permanent resident receiving a green card in two thousand and five. He
lived with his three sisters and parents, and he was something of a loner,
preferring to avoid small talk, which meant that he usually only spoke when
asked a direct question. Police spoke with all sorts of witnesses, family members,
co workers, and teachers, but there was still very little known about
Xander and more importantly, why he committed the shooting. There was a loose
connection to the Trolley Square Mall, insomuch as Xander lived near the mall at
one point and frequented the mall as a youngster. Xander's boss indicated that he
was basically a model employee. He arrived to work on time, completed assignments,
and didn't cause problems or get into quarrels with others. Though Xander was
very quiet at first, over time he opened up a bit more. The
boss said that Xander seemed anxious and spoke with a hand near his mouth as
a sort of nervous gesture. Sometimes he became very introuted and then would become
anxious, then back to being friendly again. At work, Xander was never
one to initiate conversation. He would participate when spoken to, but he never
talked first, and he almost always ate alone in his car at lunch.
These all seemed more like works rather than red flags that would raise suspicions.
One family member said that she rarely saw Xander when she visited. Although he
was never rude, he acknowledged her presence and even brought her something to drink.
However, he would immediately retreat back to his room with barely more than
a few, if any words. The same family member indicated that she could
not recall if she had ever seen or heard of any friends that Xander had.
One witness that police interviewed stated that Xander once got into a fight at
the mall. It was over a video game, and it's not clear whether
it was a physical or verbal fight, but such an encounter seemed highly out
of the norm for Xander. He started an online relationship with a female from
Bosnia who was living in the US for about nine years. The relationship,
which began on January twenty eighth, two thousand and seven, was with a
woman that we will refer to as Jennifer. Jennifer lived in Amarillo, Texas,
and when she spoke with police, she guessed that Xander called her about
eighty five times, while she called him about thirty two times. For context,
this was over a two week period that was the length of the relationship.
Jennifer told police that sometimes she and Xander talked in Bosnian, although they
usually spoke in English. The pair communicated by phone since Xander told her that
he didn't have a computer. They mainly spoke about her, but Xander did
tell her that he planned to visit her in Amarillo on March twenty eighth,
two thousand and seven. He was going to stay with her, but she
wasn't aware of him ever actually purchasing a plane ticket. Though they knew each
other's names, Jennifer never looked Xander up and didn't even know what he even
looked like until the shooting happened and photos of him were plastered on the news.
Interestingly, Jennifer claims that Xander only spoke highly of his sisters and family
and never had a bad attitude or got angry. He seemed very kind and
not at all political. They didn't discuss politics, and Xander told Jennifer he
really loved living in the un United States, and she believed him because she
had no reason not to She told police that they spoke for about three hours
on the phone the night before the shooting. There was nothing out of the
ordinary about the conversation until the very end, when they were ending the call.
Xander told Jennifer, quote, tomorrow will be the happiest day of my
life. He also said that it could only happen once. Confused, Jennifer
asked him to explain, but he refused to say. He just told her
that once she knew certain things about him, she would never forgive him and
wouldn't want to know him anymore. Especially perplexed, Jennifer implored Xander for more
of an explanation, but he again refused to say more. There were several
other witnesses interviewed, including two specific witnesses who each claimed to have visited Xander
at home weeks before the shooting and they'd all gotten high smoking marijuana. One
of the witnesses said Xander listened to white supremacist music. Another witness claimed that
Xander was smoking methan opium and that he quote hated gay people. In the
FBI's eventual report, it was noted that Xander made statements in two thousand and
one or two thousand two about shooting white people like quote serbs. Despite these
few witness statements, subsequent toxicology reports indicated no presence of controlled substances in Xander's
system and no concerning activity was discovered online. There were no journals and no
evidence of radicalization. Xander's body was transported to Telovic in eastern Bosnia for burial.
Shooting victim Carolyn Tuft is left to suffer from taxing headaches and frequent bouts
of nausea. She had led poisoning as a result of the three hundred shotgun
pellets that are still lodged inside of her body. This is nothing compared to
the debilitating pain of losing her daughter in l such a violent manner. Five
officers, including Sergeant Andrew Oblod, Sergeant Joshua Sharman, Detective Brett Olsen,
Detective Dustin Marshall, and Officer Kenneth Hammond, were each recognized for their courageousness
on February sixteenth at the Utah State Capitol, a mere forty eight hours post
shooting, The mall reopened its doors to the public. However, each individual
store within the mall was permitted to reopen at their own discretion. A memorial
flowers and cards was erected near the mall's fountain. We all have the unique
ability to help prevent such a catastrophic event from happening if we keep our eyes
and ears open and never hesitate to report when something or someone just doesn't seem
right. With the delicate balance of mental health reform, education, active shooter
training, and common sense gun laws, we may one day realize the dream,
the dream that there will be no more active shootings. We pray that
love will prevail over hate. Too many have died, we should say to
ourselves, not one more. In the meantime, we urge our listeners to
stay aware of your surroundings and keep in touch with your loved ones. If
you see something, say something, you never know how many lives you'll be
saving. Thank you for listening to today's episode of Active Shooter the podcast.
Remember, if you see something, say something, there's no telling how many
lives you may be saving. A big thank you to Darren Curtis, who
composed some of the songs on our show. You can find him online at
www dot Darren Curtis music dot com. Make sure to check us out on
social media. You can find us on Facebook at Active Shooter the Podcast,
and on Twitter at podcast Active Thank you, and be safe.