WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.199 --> 00:00:03.799 We have an active shooter, we have an acre, shoots go ahead of 2 00:00:03.799 --> 00:00:11.279 me quier with a mass casualty. Welcome to Active Shooter, a podcast that 3 00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:16.480 covers the wys, the hows, and the aftermath of active shooter and mass 4 00:00:16.519 --> 00:00:25.600 casualty events. I have an active shooter in the building. A teching call 5 00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:33.200 says they are big attacks. We got shots fliers four fifteen asl Brouge ninety 6 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:49.799 one. So I'd like, oh, I'm at a fire, active shooter 7 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:54.200 or it's of an active shooter, active shooter, active shooter of mash casualty 8 00:00:54.240 --> 00:01:02.640 incidents. Thank you for listening. You are listening to Active Shooter, a 9 00:01:02.679 --> 00:01:07.719 podcast that may contain adult themes, explicit language, and graphic depictions of violence. 10 00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:12.079 Portions of this show may be traumatic for those under eighteen. Listener discretion 11 00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:18.840 is advised, at least on the surface. Some sense of normalcy may return 12 00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:22.879 to Salt Lake City's Trolley Square Mall Wednesday. It will reopen for the first 13 00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:26.879 time since a teenager went on a deadly shooting rampage Monday night. But for 14 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:30.159 police in the community, some big questions remain. What drove a young man 15 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:34.959 to take this position? What can we do as a community to ensure that 16 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:38.599 it doesn't happen again. Well, youse, say, eighteen year old went 17 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:42.200 to the mall just before seven pm, dressed in a trench coat and armed 18 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:47.319 with a shotgun and thirty eight caliber pistol. He shot and killed five people 19 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:53.239 and critically wounded four others before being killed by police. It's been seventeen years 20 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:59.040 since the shooting at the Trolley Square Mall in Salt Lake City, Utah. 21 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:02.079 Only fifteen years old, the youngest shooting victim, never got the chance to 22 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:08.639 experience that many years in this world. One of the shooting survivors has since 23 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:14.800 passed away, likely due to complications from the lifelong injuries he sustained in the 24 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:21.360 shooting. The aftermath, even so many years later, shows us just a 25 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:28.000 glimpse of the struggles that shooting victims and their families. Shooting survivors and their 26 00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:34.520 families, and even witnesses grapple with days, months, years, and even 27 00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:40.520 decades later. Injuries can last for a lifetime and impact everyday life, and 28 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:46.479 memories can linger in the depths of the minds coming out to torture those survivors 29 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:53.840 every time they hear about the next mass shooting. Today's case is dedicated to 30 00:02:53.879 --> 00:03:00.199 the lives and memories of the four injured survivors Carolyn Tuft, aj Walker, 31 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:07.919 Sean Muns, and Stacy Hansen, and the five shooting victims Jeffrey Walker, 32 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:19.400 Vanessa Quinn, Kirsten Hinckley, Brad Frantz, and Theresa Ellis. Active Shooter 33 00:03:19.479 --> 00:03:23.159 the podcast is a High five Holly production, and I'm your host j T. 34 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:30.240 If you've listened to our prior episodes, you know that the Active Shooter 35 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:36.479 podcast team has taken THEE No Notoriety pledge and we will not be sharing the 36 00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:40.080 real name to the shooters that we cover. We will be giving the shooters 37 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:45.840 a pseudonym and refer to them by that name throughout the episode. This will 38 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:50.479 help in clearing up any confusion in the story while remaining true to our pledge 39 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:55.759 in not naming the shooter by their actual name. We will refer to today's 40 00:03:55.759 --> 00:04:14.159 shooter as Xander. Monday, February twelfth, two thousand and seven, was 41 00:04:14.199 --> 00:04:16.720 a typical day in Salt Lake City, Utah. It was a mild, 42 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:23.920 late winter evening with occasional stretches of cloud cover For eighteen year old Xander. 43 00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:29.639 However, the day was anything but normal. Today was his last day alive. 44 00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:35.279 He intended to and in fact did, shoot and murder five people while 45 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:42.720 injuring another four people before exchanging gunfire with police, who ultimately shot and killed 46 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:47.399 Xander. It was approximately six forty five pm when Xander rolled into the parking 47 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:51.720 structure at the Trolley Square Mall in Salt Lake City. He parked his Burgundy 48 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:57.199 Mazda six two six and exited the car carrying a backpack that was loaded with 49 00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:02.600 ammunition, a twelve gage Mosburg Maverick eighty eight security six shot pump action shotgun 50 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:09.480 and a Smith and Wesson Model thirty six thirty eight caliber revolver. He walked 51 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:14.800 with purpose while simultaneously retrieving the shotgun from the backpack. When he caught sight 52 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:17.360 of Jeffrey and A J. Walker, a father and son who were walking 53 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:25.600 towards their own parked vehicle. Xander's shot and hit them both. Jeffrey Walker 54 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:30.720 immediately fell to the ground dead in an instant. AJ was shot twice, 55 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:34.399 once in the head and once in the ankle, but he still managed to 56 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:39.959 run back into the corridor with the staircases leading to the lower level of the 57 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:46.120 structure. While AJ ran for his life. Xander approached Jeffrey and again began 58 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:50.360 shooting the already dead man. Fifty three year old Jeffrey Walker was born on 59 00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:56.839 December twenty second, nineteen fifty four, in San Bernardino, California. Much 60 00:05:56.839 --> 00:06:00.839 of his childhood was spent in the Northern California region. Jeffrey met his soulmate, 61 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:04.920 Vicki, and the couple was married on June twenty ninth, nineteen eighty 62 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:11.399 four, and together they began their family that consisted of two sons and two 63 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:15.480 daughters. Jeffrey was a proud active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of 64 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:20.240 Latter day Saints and was well known for his giving nature and was described as 65 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:26.720 someone who often places the needs of others above his own. He was incredibly 66 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:30.000 family oriented, preferring to spend all of his free time with family and loved 67 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:36.319 ones. Jeffrey is survived by his beloved Vicki and their four children and three 68 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:44.120 grandchildren. Minutes after the initial gunshots, the Salt Lake City Police Department's dispatch 69 00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:47.319 center got the first call reporting an active shooter at the Trolley Square Mall's parking 70 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:55.279 structure. Law enforcement units were dispatched immediately, Xander proceeded to the west entrance 71 00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:59.399 of the parking structure and walked out into the open, where each individual who 72 00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:04.120 happened to be in the vicinity suddenly became extremely vulnerable to an attack they could 73 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:09.560 never prepare for. Indeed, the next person that came into contact was Xander. 74 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:13.959 Thirty four year old Shawn Munns had just parted ways with his wife and 75 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:17.639 kids. The family was out for a birthday dinner. You can imagine how 76 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:24.000 such a joyous occasion was juxtaposed against the horror and tragedy that was set to 77 00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:29.319 follow. Sean was about thirty yards away from Xander when he was shot twice 78 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:32.879 in the back. The jolt from the bullets caused Sean to fall. He 79 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:38.040 managed to get up and run into the now defunct Hard Rock Cafe, where 80 00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:43.680 he alerted others to the active shooter. Seawn also called his wife and hollered 81 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:47.480 for her to turn around and drive away from the mall. Sewn survived his 82 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:53.800 injuries, but the effects of those injuries will be felt for a lifetime. 83 00:07:54.800 --> 00:08:00.600 He had seventy five to one hundred metal pellets lodged in his body, which 84 00:08:00.600 --> 00:08:05.839 can cause lead poisoning, so Schenre was required to take specific medication several times 85 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:13.079 per day for removing lead. Xander quickly walked up to the mall's entrance when 86 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:18.839 a teenage girl was walking towards him, her inside the mall and him outside. 87 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:22.839 The girl heard a disturbance outside of the mall and was going to check 88 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:28.360 things out when she suddenly saw a man lower a shot gun and shoot twice 89 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:31.279 at the doors. She stood before the glass in front of her exploded, 90 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:35.879 yet miraculously she was not hit. She ran into a store near by, 91 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:41.519 where she was able to hide. Meanwhile, Xander entered the mall and headed 92 00:08:41.559 --> 00:08:45.960 towards the west stairs. A security guard spied Xander at the same time that 93 00:08:46.039 --> 00:08:50.840 Xander spotted him. He raised the weapon and shot several times at the guard, 94 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:54.279 but he missed. Bullet struck the ceiling, causing to breed a fall 95 00:08:54.320 --> 00:09:01.320 from above and likely made the scene appear as chaotic and confusing as it surely 96 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:05.600 felt. Xander continued through the mall when he noticed Vanessa Quinn running in the 97 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:11.120 opposite direction. Using the thirty eight handgun. Xander shot at Vanessa and struck 98 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:16.440 her in the chest. She fell to the ground, and just like with 99 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:20.960 Jeffrey. Xander walked up to the young woman and shot her in the back 100 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:28.240 of the head execution style, except he had already killed her. This was 101 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:35.360 just overkill, and it was. It is disturbing and an utterly terrifying display 102 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:39.919 of pure evil. Twenty nine year old Vanessa Quinn was born on February eighth, 103 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:45.240 nineteen seventy eight. She met her husband Rich in Cincinnati, Ohio, 104 00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:50.000 in nineteen ninety nine, and they were inseparable from that day until her death. 105 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:54.799 An athlete and adventure seeker, Vanessa and Rich took a leap and moved 106 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:58.639 to Utah after she landed a job with overstock dot Com. The couple loved 107 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:03.399 animal and took in strays often, and Vanessa even considered the animals her children. 108 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:07.799 She is survived by Rich and the animals they shared at the time. 109 00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:18.080 After killing Vanessa, Xander entered a card store called Cabin Fever. Several people 110 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:22.080 were hiding inside of the store when Xander initially walked past the store, but 111 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:41.960 he backtracked and entered, though the reason why can never be known. Inside 112 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:46.240 of Cabin Fever, fifty three year old Stacy Hansen was crouched down near a 113 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:50.639 window. When Xander caught his eye. Stacey said to Zander quote, we 114 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:56.440 all have families we love and just want to go home, to which Xander 115 00:10:56.480 --> 00:11:01.080 replied for the other man to shut up, before lowering the gun and shooting 116 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:07.000 Stacy in the stomach and arm. The window that Stacy was under shattered from 117 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:11.039 the bullets, raining pieces of glass down on Stacy, who fell face first 118 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:16.559 into the glass. Stacy was severely injured, and though he survived the injuries, 119 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:22.600 his recovery was anything but swift. While he remained an incredible and positive 120 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:28.600 force throughout, Stacy was forced to undergo numerous surgeries and was wheelchair bound for 121 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:33.279 the remainder of his life. Sadly, he passed away on November fifth, 122 00:11:33.559 --> 00:11:39.480 twenty twenty three. Elsewhere in the store, forty four year old Caroline Tuft 123 00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:45.480 was hiding by a display towards the front entrance, and her daughter Kirsten was 124 00:11:45.559 --> 00:11:50.759 nearby. Xander approached Carolyn and shot her, striking her left side and arm. 125 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:56.039 She was injured, but she was alive. The same could not be 126 00:11:56.080 --> 00:12:01.519 said for Kirsten, who was shot in the torso and killed. She was 127 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:09.080 fifteen years old and taken from this world too. Soon. Kirsten was born 128 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:13.600 on June ninth, nineteen ninety one, in Salt Lake City to parents Carolyne 129 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:18.480 Tuft and Stephen Hinckley. An intelligent sophomore at Brighton High School, she planned 130 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:24.679 to attend Bartletter College in England after graduation. A true friend to all, 131 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:28.559 she was known as extremely loyal and was someone you could spill all of your 132 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:35.759 secrets to. The kind hearted friend. Sister and daughter will be fiercely missed, 133 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:41.440 and the loss and pain her mother still suffers fro him is immeasurable. 134 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:48.039 Twenty four year old Brad France and twenty nine year old Teresa Ellis were patronizing 135 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:54.240 cabin Fever when the gunman entered. They were a newer couple, but they 136 00:12:54.279 --> 00:13:00.240 loved each other and they died together. Brad was born on June twe twenty 137 00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:05.639 second, nineteen eighty two, to June Carmel Steglik and Daniel ted Frantz. 138 00:13:05.480 --> 00:13:11.320 He graduated from Highland High School in two thousand before going on to work for 139 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:18.000 Eagle pre Cast Company. Before his death, Brad was promoted to erection lead 140 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:24.200 man, which was his greatest professional triumph. His daughter and Theresa were his 141 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:31.080 most treasured personal relationships. Teresa was born on January twenty sixth, nineteen seventy 142 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:35.279 eight, in Jamestown, New York. She was raised as sort of a 143 00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:39.600 theater kid, acting in school plays and singing. She played trumpet and piano 144 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:43.919 in high school, but she had a wide variety of interests, including traveling 145 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:50.759 and scrap booking. The young lovers were out for an early Valentine's dinner on 146 00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:58.360 an average day that ended most tragically. There was another customer who was left 147 00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:01.639 unharmed hiding near a clothing wreck, and they must have nearly passed out from 148 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:07.840 relief when Xander suddenly exited the store. Carolin Tuft was able to crawl to 149 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:11.360 her daughter, Kirsten went out of nowhere. Xander burst back into the store 150 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:18.000 and shot Kirsten once more in the head before he just as abruptly exited. 151 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:22.639 When Xander walked out of cap'n Fever the second time, an off duty Ogden 152 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:28.320 police officer named Ken Hammond was walking across the second floor of the mall with 153 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:33.720 his wife. The couple had just finished dinner at Rodizio Grill. Officer Hammond 154 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:39.240 saw the shooter exiting cap'n Fever with a shotgun, and without hesitation, he 155 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:43.639 drew his off duty weapon instructed his wife to go back into the restaurant and 156 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:46.320 call nine one one. He then approached Xander, calling out that he was 157 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:52.080 an off duty police officer. Xander fired at Officer Hammond before heading towards the 158 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:58.000 center hallway. Watching this all unfold from inside of a store called Harouns, 159 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:03.159 Barrett Dodds became aware of the active shooter. He ordered a customer to lock 160 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:07.600 the door before he left the store and walked towards the hallway on the second 161 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:11.879 level. Xander saw Barrett and fired the shotgun at him and a couple of 162 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:18.279 employees from a nearby restaurant. Xander walked purposefully back towards one of the earlier 163 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:24.679 shooting victims, Stacy Hansen, and shot him again in the back. Barrett 164 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:31.320 Dodds then heroically started yelling to Xander, quote shoot at me, Shoot at 165 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:39.200 me. Xander began walking towards pottery Barn Kids. As this was happening, 166 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:43.440 Officer Hammond peered down the main level and saw Salt Lake City Police Sergeant Andrew 167 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:48.440 Oblod enter the mall, so he called out to the sergeant that he was 168 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:54.200 an off duty Ogden police officer Sergeant Andrew Oblod arrived at the mall, and 169 00:15:54.240 --> 00:16:00.120 the first thing he noted were the petrified shoppers racing out of the mall screaming 170 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:03.519 that there was a man with a shotgun. When he entered the mall, 171 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:07.360 Sergeant Oblod heard Officer Hammond and saw him above on the second level. He 172 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:11.639 motioned for Hammond to come down to the first level, which he did. 173 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:15.879 Together, the two officers heard shotgun blasts. Officer Hammond took cover behind a 174 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:21.200 pillar near the Pottery Barn Kid's Store, which he peered into he could see 175 00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:25.320 a portion of Xander's body and part of a shotgun. He leaned around the 176 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:29.759 pillar and fired at Xander, who immediately fired back. Hammond once again leaned 177 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:33.960 around the pillar and fired off two more rounds. Sergeant Oblod ordered Xander to 178 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:38.159 drop his weapon. Xander simply replied, in a sullen voice, quote, 179 00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:45.720 ook you, before firing at the officers again. The moment Xander stepped into 180 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:49.399 the sergeant's line of sight, he fired twice. Unbeknownst to Xander, several 181 00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:55.919 Salt Lake City Police officers, including Detective Dustin Marshall, Detective Brett Olsen and 182 00:16:56.039 --> 00:17:02.480 Sergeant Josh Schlarman had approached from behind, fronted him, and after additional gunfire 183 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:11.640 was exchanged, the threat was finally stopped. The shooter was killed. Salt 184 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:15.720 Lake City p Deep Crime Scene Unit, along with the Utah Department of Public 185 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:22.000 Safety Crime Lab arrived shortly after to process the scene. Twenty nine shellcasings and 186 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:26.599 nineteen nine millimeter shell casings were located, along with live shotgun shells, bullet 187 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:33.440 fragments, and several shotgun wads. This included shots fired from police and shooter. 188 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:38.200 Xander's car was searched and his license, an SLC library card, and 189 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:44.240 a receipt for the shotgun bullets were found. Additionally, Xander's house, which 190 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:48.319 he lived in with his parents, was searched. When law enforcement arrived, 191 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:52.960 they were tasked with giving a death notification that was served with a request to 192 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:59.759 search the residents and most especially Xander's room. Xander's parents were visibly upset and 193 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:03.240 didn't appear to have any clue what their son had done. The news was 194 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:07.279 breaking all over TV, which was playing inside of their living room. The 195 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:11.880 couple just never dreamed it was their boy who could be responsible for so much 196 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:19.079 devastation. They seemingly cooperated fully with police, providing all information they knew or 197 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:25.400 thought might help. Xander lived in the basement of his home. The basement 198 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:29.319 was made up of two rooms and a utility room. Inside of his bedroom 199 00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:33.519 was his bed, which you'd expect. It was what sat on the bed 200 00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:37.599 that was noticeable. There was an empty shotgun case that was partly concealed by 201 00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:41.400 a pile of clothing. In the closet was a metal lock box that sat 202 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:47.680 unlocked and empty. On the nightstand sat Xander's resident Alien identification card, social 203 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:52.119 Security card, a gun cleaning kit, a check book, a Muslim prayer 204 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:56.720 book, and a receipt showing the purchase of a Mosburg shotgun. The only 205 00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:02.160 thing the police didn't seem to find was an answer or reason for why this 206 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:08.279 horrific shooting took place. There was no manifesto, no note, nothing. 207 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:29.400 Xander was born on October sixth, nineteen eighty eight, in Cerska, which 208 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:34.799 is a town in the Vilsenica municipality of Herzegovina and Bosnia. His family immigrated 209 00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:40.119 to the United States in nineteen ninety eight. When he was nine. Xander 210 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:45.240 became a permanent resident receiving a green card in two thousand and five. He 211 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:48.839 lived with his three sisters and parents, and he was something of a loner, 212 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:52.960 preferring to avoid small talk, which meant that he usually only spoke when 213 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:57.559 asked a direct question. Police spoke with all sorts of witnesses, family members, 214 00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:02.440 co workers, and teachers, but there was still very little known about 215 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:08.920 Xander and more importantly, why he committed the shooting. There was a loose 216 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:14.640 connection to the Trolley Square Mall, insomuch as Xander lived near the mall at 217 00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:19.359 one point and frequented the mall as a youngster. Xander's boss indicated that he 218 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:25.720 was basically a model employee. He arrived to work on time, completed assignments, 219 00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:29.839 and didn't cause problems or get into quarrels with others. Though Xander was 220 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.880 very quiet at first, over time he opened up a bit more. The 221 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:38.200 boss said that Xander seemed anxious and spoke with a hand near his mouth as 222 00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:44.920 a sort of nervous gesture. Sometimes he became very introuted and then would become 223 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:48.400 anxious, then back to being friendly again. At work, Xander was never 224 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:53.079 one to initiate conversation. He would participate when spoken to, but he never 225 00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:56.960 talked first, and he almost always ate alone in his car at lunch. 226 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:02.920 These all seemed more like works rather than red flags that would raise suspicions. 227 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.039 One family member said that she rarely saw Xander when she visited. Although he 228 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:11.119 was never rude, he acknowledged her presence and even brought her something to drink. 229 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:15.440 However, he would immediately retreat back to his room with barely more than 230 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:21.079 a few, if any words. The same family member indicated that she could 231 00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:26.440 not recall if she had ever seen or heard of any friends that Xander had. 232 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:30.480 One witness that police interviewed stated that Xander once got into a fight at 233 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:33.920 the mall. It was over a video game, and it's not clear whether 234 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:38.319 it was a physical or verbal fight, but such an encounter seemed highly out 235 00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:44.039 of the norm for Xander. He started an online relationship with a female from 236 00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:48.440 Bosnia who was living in the US for about nine years. The relationship, 237 00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:51.920 which began on January twenty eighth, two thousand and seven, was with a 238 00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:56.640 woman that we will refer to as Jennifer. Jennifer lived in Amarillo, Texas, 239 00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:00.319 and when she spoke with police, she guessed that Xander called her about 240 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.359 eighty five times, while she called him about thirty two times. For context, 241 00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:08.240 this was over a two week period that was the length of the relationship. 242 00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:14.519 Jennifer told police that sometimes she and Xander talked in Bosnian, although they 243 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:18.079 usually spoke in English. The pair communicated by phone since Xander told her that 244 00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:22.119 he didn't have a computer. They mainly spoke about her, but Xander did 245 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:26.599 tell her that he planned to visit her in Amarillo on March twenty eighth, 246 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.599 two thousand and seven. He was going to stay with her, but she 247 00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:33.680 wasn't aware of him ever actually purchasing a plane ticket. Though they knew each 248 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:38.119 other's names, Jennifer never looked Xander up and didn't even know what he even 249 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:42.720 looked like until the shooting happened and photos of him were plastered on the news. 250 00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:48.920 Interestingly, Jennifer claims that Xander only spoke highly of his sisters and family 251 00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:52.559 and never had a bad attitude or got angry. He seemed very kind and 252 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:57.480 not at all political. They didn't discuss politics, and Xander told Jennifer he 253 00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:03.039 really loved living in the un United States, and she believed him because she 254 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:07.400 had no reason not to She told police that they spoke for about three hours 255 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:10.680 on the phone the night before the shooting. There was nothing out of the 256 00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:15.359 ordinary about the conversation until the very end, when they were ending the call. 257 00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:22.440 Xander told Jennifer, quote, tomorrow will be the happiest day of my 258 00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:27.880 life. He also said that it could only happen once. Confused, Jennifer 259 00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:33.279 asked him to explain, but he refused to say. He just told her 260 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:37.640 that once she knew certain things about him, she would never forgive him and 261 00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:44.559 wouldn't want to know him anymore. Especially perplexed, Jennifer implored Xander for more 262 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:49.839 of an explanation, but he again refused to say more. There were several 263 00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:55.359 other witnesses interviewed, including two specific witnesses who each claimed to have visited Xander 264 00:23:55.400 --> 00:24:00.920 at home weeks before the shooting and they'd all gotten high smoking marijuana. One 265 00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:04.279 of the witnesses said Xander listened to white supremacist music. Another witness claimed that 266 00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:10.200 Xander was smoking methan opium and that he quote hated gay people. In the 267 00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:14.720 FBI's eventual report, it was noted that Xander made statements in two thousand and 268 00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:21.079 one or two thousand two about shooting white people like quote serbs. Despite these 269 00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:26.920 few witness statements, subsequent toxicology reports indicated no presence of controlled substances in Xander's 270 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:33.119 system and no concerning activity was discovered online. There were no journals and no 271 00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:40.599 evidence of radicalization. Xander's body was transported to Telovic in eastern Bosnia for burial. 272 00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:47.319 Shooting victim Carolyn Tuft is left to suffer from taxing headaches and frequent bouts 273 00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:52.880 of nausea. She had led poisoning as a result of the three hundred shotgun 274 00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:56.519 pellets that are still lodged inside of her body. This is nothing compared to 275 00:24:56.519 --> 00:25:02.400 the debilitating pain of losing her daughter in l such a violent manner. Five 276 00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:07.759 officers, including Sergeant Andrew Oblod, Sergeant Joshua Sharman, Detective Brett Olsen, 277 00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:12.680 Detective Dustin Marshall, and Officer Kenneth Hammond, were each recognized for their courageousness 278 00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:18.519 on February sixteenth at the Utah State Capitol, a mere forty eight hours post 279 00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:25.519 shooting, The mall reopened its doors to the public. However, each individual 280 00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:30.240 store within the mall was permitted to reopen at their own discretion. A memorial 281 00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:37.559 flowers and cards was erected near the mall's fountain. We all have the unique 282 00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:42.119 ability to help prevent such a catastrophic event from happening if we keep our eyes 283 00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:49.240 and ears open and never hesitate to report when something or someone just doesn't seem 284 00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:55.319 right. With the delicate balance of mental health reform, education, active shooter 285 00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:59.720 training, and common sense gun laws, we may one day realize the dream, 286 00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:04.000 the dream that there will be no more active shootings. We pray that 287 00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:11.440 love will prevail over hate. Too many have died, we should say to 288 00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:18.000 ourselves, not one more. In the meantime, we urge our listeners to 289 00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:22.400 stay aware of your surroundings and keep in touch with your loved ones. If 290 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:27.920 you see something, say something, you never know how many lives you'll be 291 00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:40.079 saving. Thank you for listening to today's episode of Active Shooter the podcast. 292 00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:45.319 Remember, if you see something, say something, there's no telling how many 293 00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:49.720 lives you may be saving. A big thank you to Darren Curtis, who 294 00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:55.359 composed some of the songs on our show. You can find him online at 295 00:26:55.480 --> 00:27:00.880 www dot Darren Curtis music dot com. Make sure to check us out on 296 00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:07.000 social media. You can find us on Facebook at Active Shooter the Podcast, 297 00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:14.839 and on Twitter at podcast Active Thank you, and be safe.