WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.160 --> 00:00:06.960 How's it hagging? Internet? Welcome back to Desks and Dork's your favorite game 2 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:12.720 designing creation podcast. As always, it's shaped molded carefully, bit by bit 3 00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:19.160 by you who we love. We bring you the best in indie tabletop gaming. 4 00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:24.320 I am the best. DM Graham gains to Kyle's Dork. He's a 5 00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:30.440 dark Hi, Kyle, It's it's going great. If I sound froggy in 6 00:00:30.440 --> 00:00:34.079 the throat, it's because I have just gotten back from Origins. Um. 7 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:37.719 Yes, Origins game favorite, which I love. It's actually we you and 8 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:40.719 I didn't talk about this before the show. It's my favorite con Um. 9 00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:44.640 I love Origins like ever ever, like big and small and everything in between. 10 00:00:44.840 --> 00:00:48.679 UM. The only other con there are two cons I think that rival 11 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:52.719 it for me. UM, and that is unpubbed in Hunts of Maryland. 12 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:57.159 Because I am a sucker for raw creativity. I'm absolutely love the fact there's 13 00:00:57.159 --> 00:01:00.640 like two thousand people throughout a whole weekend now, all at once that that 14 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:06.159 meet up and just test un published board games. I think is great. 15 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:07.680 So it's just cool to see a bunch of designers there and firing on all 16 00:01:07.719 --> 00:01:12.879 cylinders and trying new stuff and then safe or saving Against Fear, which holds 17 00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:15.640 a special place in my heart because I know the director. I know Jack 18 00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:19.519 Berry can Stock is a good guy. It's where you and I got to 19 00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:22.200 spend a lot of time together for the first time after our panel. It's 20 00:01:22.239 --> 00:01:26.599 where it was Desks and Dork's first ever con. It was great. I 21 00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:29.319 got to hang out. Jeremy and Isaac, good friends of mine who was 22 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:32.319 there for it, was there both of their first gaming conventions, and I 23 00:01:32.359 --> 00:01:34.000 got to be there with them for it with my company. It was cool. 24 00:01:34.040 --> 00:01:38.920 It was just cool. So Saving Against Fear holds a special place in 25 00:01:38.920 --> 00:01:41.480 my heart as well. So, yeah, Jack's Jack's a good guy. 26 00:01:41.640 --> 00:01:46.640 He's he's doing good things. Whanna shout out to Bahana group. Yeah, 27 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:52.040 they're bringing people who care about the similar things that we do, which is 28 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:57.120 intentionality in games, caring about the people, the health of the room that 29 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:02.000 you're in at being there. And so all of a sudden you have this 30 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:07.840 intersection of therapists using games already using the same kind of philosophy that I want 31 00:02:07.879 --> 00:02:12.639 to bring to all my games anyways. So yeah, and it really is 32 00:02:12.639 --> 00:02:15.840 like it It was just incredible show. But if I sound a little froggy, 33 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:19.360 in the throat. Um, I'm running on like maybe like fourteen twelve 34 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:23.719 hours of sleep between all four days origins of the Great Time. It's a 35 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:28.560 really relaxed show. But I always you sound super relaxed. Yeah, I 36 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:34.159 mean I sound well because we'd karaoke the last night, which was absolutely amazing. 37 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:37.439 U. So yeah, I was just saying, Okay, I was 38 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:39.840 gonna ask you about origins, but instead I'm just gonna be asking you. 39 00:02:39.879 --> 00:02:45.400 What did you sing at Carrio? I did a duet to the other Side 40 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:49.120 from Greatest Showman, which I almost accorded and sent to you. Actually, 41 00:02:51.639 --> 00:02:57.240 uh, with my good friend Matt from at Restoration Games. Shout out to 42 00:02:57.280 --> 00:03:00.599 Matt Teitelbaum, awesome guy who works for Restoration Games. He's also he was 43 00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:05.560 one of the designers on Shadow of War, the mortar game that came out 44 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:07.400 Forever Ago, which has the Nemesis system, which I love. So shout 45 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:10.960 out to Matt. I did that duet with him, and then I went 46 00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:16.240 on a side quest and some very inebriated woman came up to me in the 47 00:03:16.280 --> 00:03:20.159 middle of the carriage. He said, hey, you say really pretty, 48 00:03:20.599 --> 00:03:23.520 Um, some dude is singing my husband's favorite song. Will you go up 49 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:27.960 and sing it with him? Because it's my husband's birthday and if this dude 50 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:31.240 butchers this song, it will make my husband sad. And so I sang 51 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:36.319 Creedi high stakes, Yeah, high stakes. I sang with arms wide open 52 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:40.039 by Creed with some metal head dude that I'd never met before. What you 53 00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:45.319 sang? You sang Creed and a song from the Greatest Showman. Yes, 54 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:50.159 yeah, it was a weird night. You're right, Origins Origins popping off 55 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:54.360 party. I could not have imagined. It was definitely not what I imagined 56 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:58.360 either, But but yeah, no, I am doing excellent. It's good 57 00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:01.280 to be home, going to be back. Also, shout out to the 58 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:06.199 Pride Gamers Group of Columbus. We did an event for them. We did 59 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:12.000 desks and doorg. We ran two back to back fully booked events of Becoming 60 00:04:12.039 --> 00:04:14.919 Banana Bread and sold out of all of our copies of Becoming Banana Bread while 61 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:16.720 we were there. So that's awesome. Shout out to Andrew Heiner, or 62 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:19.319 shout out to all the members of the of the pride Gamers Group. You 63 00:04:19.319 --> 00:04:21.600 guys are awesome. Thank you for putting on a great show and for doing 64 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:29.639 great work. So cause I love and a cause I believe in like all 65 00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:32.600 my favorite people basically like run that group. So it's awesome. But any 66 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:36.079 case, Graham, tell the good people at home what our plan is today, 67 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:40.920 because we're gonna keep the episode light because to someone who is dying slowly, 68 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:46.600 Yeah, Kyle, you like to give it. You're all making sure 69 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:50.439 that the Creed karaoke gives the high quality that it deserves. And so as 70 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:55.120 we are sliding into home, I want to make sure that you know, 71 00:04:55.399 --> 00:04:58.879 we just have like a fun one for you, for me, for everybody 72 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:02.279 else. And so this is something that I did in my spare time not 73 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:09.240 too long ago. Probably my favorite console is the PS two, but I 74 00:05:09.319 --> 00:05:15.439 have many fond memories of kind of the PS three C for three sixty era, 75 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:19.120 because that's when everyone I knew owned them. People were at a certain 76 00:05:19.160 --> 00:05:25.000 age in which they had disposable income. So I've played a lot of games 77 00:05:25.079 --> 00:05:32.040 for that generation. I am what you might call a compulsive curator, and 78 00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:42.480 I see your lovely board games behind you, and and so in my spare 79 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:46.600 time, what I did is I took one hundred, one hundred and twenty 80 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:51.199 seven games from the PS three three sixty era, and I ranked them sequentially 81 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:56.959 based on how good I thought they were. Um. On the internet, 82 00:05:57.000 --> 00:06:00.560 it's not unpopular to do top one hundred board game lists. UM. And 83 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:06.040 so having one hundred and twenty seven video games from this era just it kind 84 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:10.720 makes me laugh. So what's going to happen here? I have it in 85 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:13.759 front of me. I had a pretty simple system of I start with two 86 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:15.439 at a side, which one I like better? Then I place them there, 87 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:19.120 and then one slides in? Do I like one better or the other? 88 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:23.480 Yes? No, it slides down to up, over and over and 89 00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:27.040 over again, until I had one hundred and twenty seven different games that I 90 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:30.319 had played. So they are completely ranked in order. Okay, we're gonna 91 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:35.680 do. Uh. You can call out numbers, you can ask me about 92 00:06:35.720 --> 00:06:44.240 specific games. UM, it's kind of like a deconstructed tier list. Let's 93 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:49.600 see one hundred twenty seven games. So s abcd F that's six. So 94 00:06:49.959 --> 00:06:53.839 okay, easy math, you love doing math. One hundred and twenty six 95 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:59.439 divided by seven divided by six. That is a number. Yeah, more 96 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:01.759 than four? Money one and change. Okay, So I was right, 97 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:05.040 it was more than four. You're right. I knew you had that in 98 00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:10.600 you so about every twenty one or so, I guess because that's how TI 99 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:13.800 relates. Always, it's always completely even. I mean technically speaking, right, 100 00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:15.800 there was more than one hundred and twenty seven games that came out for 101 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:18.839 PS three, Right, these are the ones that I remember enough to feel 102 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:21.839 like I could rank them. Right, so I played them enough. By 103 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:26.680 being on your list, they're probably better than not. Maybe maybe they're not 104 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:29.360 all s, but they're probably pretty good, I would imagine. No, 105 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:31.439 I don't know. I mean, okay, maybe more. I may be 106 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:34.360 more cynical than you. Okay, off the top of my head, I 107 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:39.319 know what number one and I know what one twenty seven is. Um. 108 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:46.120 I would also like to point out, Graham, if you're done letting us 109 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:47.720 know the methodology of this episode. I want to make sure that you're done 110 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:51.079 with that first before I say this. Yeah, you and I I think 111 00:07:51.720 --> 00:07:57.399 get along because we're constant curators. Like, everything on this shelf is stuff 112 00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:00.680 that I know that my board game group will play if they look. If 113 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:03.879 you look behind me, that's what it is, um. And like stuff 114 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:05.720 is usually ranked, So stuff on the top is stuff that our group likes 115 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:09.000 better. And then as you move down it gets not worse, but just 116 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:13.399 stuff that our group likes. Last. Um, so you and I obviously 117 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:16.759 have very strong opinions about pretty much everything game related. We have the same 118 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:20.759 favorite console. It is PS two. Yeah, I didn't know that about 119 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:22.839 you. I did not know of you were PS. But I'm like, 120 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:26.279 if someone's like, what is the greatest game console of all time other than 121 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:28.879 PC, because that's its own entity, I feel like, right, um, 122 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:33.759 it's it's PS two, hands down. I think it's I think it 123 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:37.120 very, very easily. An argument can be made for the Supernintendo U. 124 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:43.200 There are enough games there that are stone cold ten out of tens. Yeah, 125 00:08:43.399 --> 00:08:46.159 even the most cynical person would call them ten out of tens. So, 126 00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:50.360 um, I it might come down to age. Um, I'm a 127 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:52.759 little older than you. Somebody a little older than me, like say my 128 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:56.279 brother's age, might be like, you're crazy. Um. There's, for 129 00:08:56.279 --> 00:09:00.679 for example, the Final Fantasy six seven Divide. I feel like one who's 130 00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:05.039 roughly late eighties early nineties will love seven, and then anybody who was born 131 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:09.000 a little earlier than me is like, no, you're crazy F six. 132 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:13.399 But I've played a F six many times and it never scratched the itch because 133 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:16.840 there's just too many characters. There's sixteen characters, and none of them really 134 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:20.399 have personalities. Two or three have personalities. And if you're cast of sixteen 135 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:22.240 characters, that's for me, that's not good enough. So yeah, I 136 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:28.039 agree. But so here's my methodology. I have a random number generator from 137 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:31.120 one to one twenty seven, and I'm gonna hit it a couple of times 138 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:35.960 and I'm gonna hear. So we're gonna start off hot with number one seventeen, 139 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:43.000 one seventeen. My one hundred seventeenth best game video game of the PS 140 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:52.679 three three sixty era is Resident Evil six. Oh perhaps you remember four because 141 00:09:52.879 --> 00:09:56.080 four everyone loves because it was incredible. Then it is incredible. Now, 142 00:09:56.240 --> 00:10:03.679 like the first half is what about Oh yeah, well do you remember how 143 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:07.759 well? Do you remember? For pretty well? I played it as a 144 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:11.679 senior in college. Actually that was my first time playing it. So so 145 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:16.519 the opening is great, obviously, the building wonderful. You you transfer into 146 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:22.960 that like tight, uh defend the house, uh kind of to end the 147 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:26.919 first chapter, and then you get off into the castle and then you fight 148 00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:35.799 a a Italian little person and then all of a sudden, uh, you're 149 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:39.039 like you, there's a giant robot one that chases you, and then you 150 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:43.080 lose the thread completely and you go to a World War two island, uh, 151 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:48.639 and you have a really disappointing boss fight against somebody who punches you. 152 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:56.159 I like that one. I I think that about halfway to the castle it 153 00:10:56.279 --> 00:11:01.159 starts to get really muddy. And perhaps that's what Resident Evil is is that 154 00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:07.320 it's campy and stupid and really effective, you know, and that's why people 155 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:11.159 like it. Um. For me, a defining feature of a game that 156 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:15.080 I love is unified tone from beginning to end. So so I define a 157 00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:16.840 lot of things in that way. If it's campy, it's camras from beginning 158 00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:20.799 to end. If it's you know, if it sticks the landing, I 159 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:24.919 do get kind of stiff on on on a bad ending or a or an 160 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:28.840 awkward ending, but that but I'm not even talking about far right now. 161 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:33.279 Then you had five, which was significantly not as good, but it had 162 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:37.600 co op, so you have I have fond memories of playing five with a 163 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:45.960 friend and being like, Golly, Africa, that's a that's a probably not 164 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:48.960 a great setting and it wasn't. No, and lower than that is six 165 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:56.440 and six was like the full evolution of its action bits and it became fully 166 00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:00.519 stupid and there were like different mini campaigns. Did you ever play? I 167 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:03.639 don't see. So five was the one who took plays in Africa and I 168 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:07.840 wrecked you when you said, co Op. That's the memory that I have 169 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:11.480 of five is playing that with a friend, my friend Adam down in Maryland, 170 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:18.799 and like going to his house and playing that there. I have no 171 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:22.559 memories of Resident Evil six none, because it's very bad. Yeah. I 172 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:26.679 looked at the camp nonsense and I was like this and it's and it's not 173 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:30.399 even like here's my thing. I don't necessarily need to think. I need 174 00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:35.720 like consistency in tone. I love when something is earnest about what it likes, 175 00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:39.000 right, And it didn't even feel like it was earnest camp nonsense, 176 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:43.759 Like it just felt like a like let's cash in on like what is popular. 177 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:48.399 Um well, it was in four they kind of realized that they need 178 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:50.519 they were this. It was this this middle ground between action and horror, 179 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:56.279 and now they've kind of tried to reclaim that with village and other things like 180 00:12:56.320 --> 00:13:01.960 in the modern sense. And six was very bad and a very bad action 181 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:07.919 game. Yeah, and you fought zombies and there were multiple campaigns. Um, 182 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:13.320 there's very little, uh that is good about it. And uh since 183 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:18.919 in the in the recent years, I've seen on YouTube some uh some breakdown 184 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:24.320 videos being like, oh there's a there's a resurgence of Resideval six being seen 185 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:28.799 as a as a misunderstood classic and going back in and oh no, actually 186 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:31.200 it is still pretty bad. So yeah, there's there's there's not much to 187 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:37.159 mind there. It looked awful, genuinely, like like terrible in terms of 188 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:41.600 us and are thinking about designers. I think the Resideval series is a really 189 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:48.399 good, uh thought experiment into thinking about how things change and how things adapt 190 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:52.840 and kind of circling back on itself and trying to reinvent and then realizing you 191 00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:56.519 can't do it, so that in of itself, I think it's a it's 192 00:13:56.519 --> 00:14:01.240 a worthy discussion to have. I know this is warrants an episode all of 193 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:03.799 its own, truthfully, but I think one of the things that made Resident 194 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:09.799 Evil four as successful as it was was it was them trying to push the 195 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:13.440 envelope of what it was possible to achieve at the time, UM and coming 196 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:18.960 up with a classic in the in the Yeah, did you play the earlier 197 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:26.039 Resident Evils. I played Resident Evil two MS on my friend's console, and 198 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:28.039 I remember liking it. I am not a big horror game guy, and 199 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:33.480 I don't know if it's I don't think it's the scary part um that that 200 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:37.120 loses me. I think it's the a lot of games tend to like horror 201 00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:41.200 games tend to get their horror out of like you have a scarcity of items, 202 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:45.799 um and which I actually like that part of the system. But at 203 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:48.759 the time when I played resid Eval too, the controls were the scariest part. 204 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:52.559 And I don't mean controlling the character in this scary place was scary. 205 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:56.440 I mean it was so janky. I felt like I wanted to vomit at 206 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:00.360 the time. Um yeah, yeah. So here's the thing. I'm glad 207 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:05.440 that you brought that up, because four is deceptively exactly the same in terms 208 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:11.960 of controls. It has tank controls, it's identical to two. And it 209 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:16.080 was in that fixed camera if you imagine four and then a lot of survival 210 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:18.799 Horrors of its era, who would walk from room to room, and it 211 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:22.399 was these fixed camera angles in like the top corner, like a like a 212 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:26.120 security camera and that at some point in the middle of production they switched it 213 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:31.320 to that over the shoulder thing, but the control stayed exactly the same, 214 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:35.240 so that no, no, no, you're making a face. I think 215 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:41.120 it's just fascinating because people love the controls of four because it's slow and weird 216 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:45.519 and you're going for these headshots. But it was the camera the point of 217 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:48.399 view that changed. So the game itself as it existed didn't change at all, 218 00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:54.159 which is crazy. And that remixing of where the camera was was everything. 219 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:58.360 That's that's that's your design anecdote to take from. It's such a one 220 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:03.320 little piece, moving it up and down to completely revolutionize whatever you're looking at. 221 00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:06.519 And it was the smallest change. And see I love that because like 222 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:10.600 necessity is the mother of invention every time, and like the more things change, 223 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:11.440 the more than stay the same. I just think about it like, 224 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:15.240 yeah, let's just change it and winds up inadvertently making class. All right. 225 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:22.279 I want to hear more rankings, though, till le tier for number 226 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:27.480 twenty, very far off your list, Number twenty on the list, Thanks 227 00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:32.480 Google, by the way, I love you, all right. So this 228 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:38.000 includes the kind of the version name mainstream indie scene. There was a lot 229 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:44.639 of games that showed up on Xbox Live and PlayStation Store that all of a 230 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:52.039 sudden, these tiny um companies that were more mostly online or on Steam or 231 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:56.200 whatever, all of a sudden, these counts console only gamers were getting it. 232 00:16:56.519 --> 00:17:00.200 So my number twenty is hell Divers. Have you ever played hell Divers? 233 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.039 The name is really familiar. Let me google it because I feel like 234 00:17:03.079 --> 00:17:06.640 I have. I want to make sure that it's the it's the one that 235 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:11.359 I know it is. So it is multiplayer co op top down stick shooter, 236 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:18.960 and it's straight up Starship Troopers. I played Hell Divers this year for 237 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:22.079 the first time ever. I played Hell Divers two, right, because that's 238 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:26.279 the one for the most recent console. Am I correct? Is there is 239 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:29.640 it out? I don't think it's out Hell Divers two twenty twenty three. 240 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:33.119 Am I wrong? I know it was the last one, So the no 241 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:34.759 I have put Hell Divers it wasn't the second one because I was like, 242 00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:37.799 I feel like, I don't think it's I don't think it's out yet because 243 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:42.400 I adore Hell Divers. Okay, Hell Divers is wonderful and it's funny and 244 00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:51.079 weird and difficult and slapstick and just the full level of cheese taking in the 245 00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:53.359 Starship Trooper things. I love the movie Starship Troopers. Yeah, there's a 246 00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:56.839 lot of weird discussion about how nobody understood it was that tire, which is 247 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:02.720 bizarre to me because it's it could not be more obvious than it is. 248 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:06.880 Um there's like fake commercials in the middle of it, which is like propaganda, 249 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:11.359 and so Hell Divers takes that point of view that like we're defending Super 250 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:15.440 Earth, except all you're doing is going to like different factions and wiping them 251 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:19.799 out. And it is just full of fascinating, beautiful design decisions. You 252 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:25.200 call in your weapons or your items, but in order to do it, 253 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:29.839 you have these very complicated sequence of numbers do you have to input, so 254 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:33.400 you have to look away from the screen and focus on it, and then 255 00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:38.359 ultimately you're you'll die. It's intentionally difficult and fiddly in such a great way. 256 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:42.880 I think about board games that I love that like you're struggling with like 257 00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:48.240 a dexterity part of it, and when that's intentional, like I'm I'm over 258 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:52.119 the Moon. I've talked about Galaxy Truckers being one of my favorite games because 259 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:55.720 of the number of limitations it puts on you. If you use one hand 260 00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:57.920 and it's it's uh in real time. You pick up the pieces, you 261 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:00.920 flip them over when you're on your board, and you look at them, 262 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:03.599 and only then do you get to add them or put them down. Hell 263 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.880 Divers is a similar thing, and it's coop and it's hilarious and it's wonderful. 264 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:11.359 And Hell Divers I see. And I didn't know you love Starship Troopers 265 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:15.119 because I I there's a lot of like old sci fi stuff or like like 266 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:18.519 like Marquis sci fi stuff that I came too much later, Um, I 267 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:22.799 think to the party than a lot of people do. Like I didn't watch 268 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:25.559 Starship Troopers till I was like in grad school, so I was in my 269 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:29.799 twenties when I watched our Ship Shopers and probably a good time to watch a 270 00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:33.039 thing because it was because I was like, oh my god, this is 271 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:36.279 so tongue in cheek. By the way I checked, it was not Hell 272 00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:38.000 Divers. I played it with Isaac. It was a bad parody, but 273 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:41.039 not in a bad parody Hell the It was a bad version like as Hell 274 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:45.119 divers asked what it was not, because I'm like, there was no propaganda 275 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:48.880 of fake or otherwise in the one that we played, which was making me 276 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:51.960 sad, like death spank or something. I don't know. It was not 277 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:53.240 like it was very good. To be honest, it was a good I 278 00:19:53.319 --> 00:20:00.359 mean, I like a good twin stick shooter. But but the thing to 279 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:03.920 make note, I just think anything Starship Troopers related is pretty cool because I 280 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:10.160 love a takedown of fascism. It's funny, it's clear, it's interesting, 281 00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:15.000 you have just enough little RPG numbers to scratch your brain. It's arcadey uh, 282 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:19.759 it's it's an easy twenty this era, and it's on PC, which 283 00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:22.599 means we can play it together right now. Might have to do that. 284 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:26.720 The only PC game to have that's similar to that is Gauntlet. Um, 285 00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:30.319 because I love Gauntlet. I've I've always loved Gauntlet, the PS two Gauntlet 286 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:33.880 I played for hundreds and hundreds of hours The Dark Legacy. Did you ever 287 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:38.079 played Dark Legacy? I have played Graham, I have played every Gauntlet that 288 00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:42.440 exists. I have like a Gauntlet Legacy I have played. I put the 289 00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:48.200 arcade of Gauntlet Legacy. I put the arcade of Gauntlet one, the original 290 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:51.440 Gaunlet, which obviously is an arcade game, the remaster on PC, and 291 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:53.839 my favorite, which is Gauntlet one on PlayStation one, which I got to 292 00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:59.599 max level in um as Warrior, and I got the nine nine nine plus 293 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.759 charged underhammer that you get at the end um for getting to that level. 294 00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:11.359 So I love Gauntlet. Um Gauntlet is very meditative. Hell Divers is not. 295 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:18.440 Hell Divers is hilarious because it's full on player versus player, like a 296 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:22.000 friendly fire, and when you when you call in weapons, they come in 297 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:27.839 these giant capsules. It's very easy to accidentally kill your friends. Um uh. 298 00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:33.000 It's wonderful and stressful in the best way. And it has an arc 299 00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:36.279 At the end of every level. You have to run to the area where 300 00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:38.640 you call in your evac and then everybody gets swarmed and you have to do 301 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:45.839 like a seven Samurai final countdown. It's wonderful. Every time Hell Divers totally 302 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:48.640 rocks. All right, good, I well, then I need to play 303 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:51.759 it. You had me at Fake Propaganda. Oh my god. Yeah. 304 00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:55.200 I love a game that leans into the lore of the world. Um So 305 00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:57.559 it's one of the reasons I love BioShock Infinite so much was like some of 306 00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:03.880 the like not propaganda, but like the like the cultural piece, like the 307 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:06.960 posters that then it was propaganda, right, like they did propaganda for for 308 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:11.920 that government. Yeah, it was very broadside of the barn. Racism is 309 00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:15.440 bad. Yeah. I remember the opening where there's like the person being tortured 310 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:19.359 and then you like destroy a CoP's face. Uh so subtle Yeah, you 311 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:25.279 know, listen, I love subtlety. Maybe not strong suit, but I 312 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:29.880 did love I did. I did love that BioShock. That all right? 313 00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:33.559 Is it is possible the first BioShock is up much much, much higher on 314 00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:37.480 this list than Bioshockit. Yeah, I mean that's fair. I think I 315 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:41.039 think I am in the minority by saying that I loved BioShock in Infinite more 316 00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:45.720 than Bioshockolman, So wow, I thought you were gonna say that you were 317 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:48.559 the martyred by liking BioShock and fit it, and I would have agreed with 318 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:51.359 that. I mean, that's probably true. I don't know. There were 319 00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:52.799 a lot of people that loved BioShock, and when it came out, I 320 00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:57.480 think it has since had less of a reputation. It's razzle dazzle. I 321 00:22:57.480 --> 00:23:00.720 think I think. I mean this is applicable to board games. The game 322 00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:04.599 comes out, it becomes the new hotness. Everybody is shaken up, and 323 00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:08.200 then it's like it's like the Scythe thing. Everyone loved Sythe that came out, 324 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:11.279 and then they played it too much and they realized, oh, it's 325 00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:15.559 it's okay. I so so not to dev it because I have I have 326 00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:19.079 your next No, there's no no deviation, is what is the game? 327 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:22.960 Because I like I like the huge thing. We haven't talked about video games 328 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:26.799 on this podcast ever. Right, this is the first time we're doing video 329 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:29.759 games top five. We'll do a top five video games of all time. 330 00:23:29.799 --> 00:23:32.640 I'm ready. I got my half, my three, Um, I got 331 00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:37.039 two, I have one two more and it's gonna be hard. Um, 332 00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:41.119 but what was I gonna say? I came again Scythe much like Starship Troopers. 333 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:45.640 I came late to the party, and I still own a copy of 334 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:48.640 Scythe. I still enjoy it. I still it's not the best game that 335 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:52.160 I've ever played, but it really does scratch to get an interesting itch that 336 00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:56.599 I didn't think I needed. So I don't know. UM, as long 337 00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:00.799 as you're not rusty it because rusty, it's dumb, my a listery and 338 00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:04.960 hot take about psythe is just that the best thing about it is the art 339 00:24:06.279 --> 00:24:11.000 it is, I don't and everything else is not nearly as good or is 340 00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:14.799 arresting or is interesting. I don't even think that's a hot take. I 341 00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:19.519 think I'm being facetious. Yea, that's because the art's really good. But 342 00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:25.319 it also speaks to why it captured the attention of the internet. They posted 343 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:27.519 that first picture, the internet exploded, everyone bought it, they played the 344 00:24:27.559 --> 00:24:32.559 heck out of it, and then you know, it's star has faded a 345 00:24:32.599 --> 00:24:36.079 little bit. Yeah. Well, I think that's partially true of a lot 346 00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:40.480 of things that people like. I think we I don't know. Maybe it's 347 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:45.480 the after being the board industry for a while, It's like people want things 348 00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:48.240 to fail. Like I was shocked at the number of people that they're like, 349 00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:51.000 let's go gloom Haven's not number one, And I was like, you 350 00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:52.599 were some of the like something like you were the same ones that loved it 351 00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:57.359 like two years ago, three years ago. Um, I don't know how 352 00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:03.000 your feelings on gloom Haven. I think I think bloom Haven is is very 353 00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:06.960 good, but I don't love it and Idor is one of my favorite games 354 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:07.920 of all the time. But yeah, I give I give it like a 355 00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:12.440 like an eight out of ten, Um, sir, I think that's fair. 356 00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:18.160 I think it's very good. Um. But there's so much about it 357 00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:23.559 that I find obnoxious. But the car of itself is great, you know. 358 00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:26.359 I just don't think it has to come in a box, uh the 359 00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:30.839 size of a case and a half of beer. Um. I think what 360 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:38.400 is it? Lions Main? What's the uh the other campaign play game of 361 00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:44.160 um? Oh, Jaws the Line. I think Jaws of the Line is 362 00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:47.799 the best form of gloom Haven interesting. And I have not played Jaws Line. 363 00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:52.079 Speaking of the games that I may or may not have played, Number 364 00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:55.799 fifty seven, All right, number fifty seven, we're right here in the 365 00:25:55.880 --> 00:26:02.839 middle. Number of fifty seven is far cry too. Oh nice. Farcry 366 00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:07.720 is in the Interesting series because the first game nobody remembers playing, and then 367 00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:11.400 two really changed things up in a weird way, and it has it has 368 00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:17.079 a cult following. Ye, so a lot of um your kind of initial 369 00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:23.480 uh nuzzlock run people kind of latched on too far Cry too because like like 370 00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:27.720 Residival five, it's set in Africa, but it's not cartoony like in the 371 00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:33.160 opening act you get malaria. UM. It's really really really gritty. UM. 372 00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:40.880 It had the first like wild fire mechanics I ever remember seeing. UM. 373 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:47.400 And it's also this kind of like the Beatles Revolver album feeling, because 374 00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:51.279 it's right before everything kind of exploded, right in this metaphor, Uh, 375 00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:55.640 Farcry three is Sergeant Peppers, where all of a sudden everyone was on the 376 00:26:55.680 --> 00:27:02.920 map, and now every single Farcry game is identical to or three. So 377 00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:06.440 fark right two is really fascinating. I am not one of the people who 378 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:10.079 loves it. I've since gone back. I've modded the heck out of it. 379 00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:14.640 I've done some of that like weird Nuzzlock run stuff where basically it's it's 380 00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:18.559 perma death. You have a self inflicted perma death. And I think that's 381 00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:23.279 interesting in kind of a conceptual sense, that there's all these games that have 382 00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:29.880 really captured the imagination of subcultures because of how people play with it. And 383 00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:36.240 I think that's a really fascinating lesson to take home as designers and also as 384 00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:42.279 like fans and players of things. When a game becomes beyond the scope of 385 00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:48.119 what the original intent was, how a game can be molded in any possible 386 00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:52.519 way. Fark Right two is a bizarre and fascinating game, and it's right 387 00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:56.720 there on the cost between nobody cares and perhaps we've gone too far. Yeah, 388 00:27:56.799 --> 00:28:03.079 yeah, maybe so I have not played Farcry too. My experience of 389 00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:07.240 the far Car franchise. The metaphor you made about Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club 390 00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:11.960 is very apt, I think, because I started in far Cry three and 391 00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:17.759 I played Farkry three to absolute death. Me too. I love it. 392 00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:21.279 It's one of my again makes my at least my top twenty games of all 393 00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:23.559 time. I love Farkry three. I sunk way too much time. I 394 00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:27.359 got all the achievements, and at some point I literally just did a web 395 00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:32.880 series my friends in college called The Adventures of far Cry Man, which because 396 00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:37.920 we were just so enamored with it, and it was just us with wingsuits 397 00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:41.799 just to ambush the random pirate bases. So so you recorded this, we'll 398 00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:44.799 put this in the show notes below. Right, I wish I don't know 399 00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:48.920 what any of the man the adventures are far Crime Man and the role the 400 00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:52.119 rule was if you were playing farcry Man. You had the wingsuit and the 401 00:28:52.119 --> 00:28:57.720 Magnum revolver and nothing, which was great. But I think one of the 402 00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:00.720 things I love about game is like Far Cry Too, because Far Cry Too 403 00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:06.480 popped up on my radar a while ago. Is it goes back to what 404 00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:10.200 you're saying about unity in tone. Right in the first thirteen seconds of this 405 00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:14.240 game, you get malaria, you know the like. And I've watched full 406 00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:17.279 playthroughs of this game, by the way, because it fascinates me so much. 407 00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:18.640 So never i've never played it, I still have a lot of familiarity 408 00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:22.279 with this subject. So spoilers for Far Cry Too, I guess if anyone 409 00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:26.319 wants those. But like the quote unquote good ending, is you basically offing 410 00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:30.559 yourself by blowing up like a bridge or like a convoy line to stop these 411 00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:33.440 people from doing bad stuff? Am I am I wrong? Yeah, it's 412 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:37.319 gritty, it's dark. Yeah, it's grounded in a way that video games 413 00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:41.680 of this era were not aren't really, no, because there were two kinds 414 00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:47.400 of games. There were your kind of Far Cry three spitops the line which 415 00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:49.640 was we're going to be a commentary on the gray brown, Gray Brown, 416 00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:53.240 and then there was just normal gray brown, gray brown, and so it 417 00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:57.160 was like over the top and big and gears of war and whatever, and 418 00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:03.880 Far Cry two was early enough in the cycle that it was just straight gritty. 419 00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:07.200 Yeah, there was. It was, And it's a it's a commentary 420 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:11.519 upon itself because of the decisions that were made, like it's kind of an 421 00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:14.839 oddity. And what's interesting is and again, I think this goes back to 422 00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:18.720 earnestness. I think people just have to own it, like it's gritty without 423 00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:22.720 being like eye rolling lee gritty, at least when I have watched it and 424 00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.000 enjoyed it, like it felt like it inhabited that without being too much. 425 00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:30.559 If that makes sense, I agree. I I have a pretty low tolerance 426 00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:36.799 for Grim Dark because it feels very much like a little kid waving their arms 427 00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:41.799 and jumping up and down. If if it reminds me of forty K you've 428 00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:47.920 already lost. But farkright too, feels like it was just like trying to 429 00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:49.599 tell the story, you know, and that it didn't go over the edge. 430 00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:53.000 Is it fun to play? I don't know. It's kind of a 431 00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:57.759 pan the ass, But then that's interesting again, it's just like pre h 432 00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:04.480 follow the marker on your map stuff. You know, it didn't spoonfeed it 433 00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:07.240 to you. You had to navigate through the jungle. It was really it 434 00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:11.759 was really hard. So making it really, really really hard when people are 435 00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:15.000 like, nope, perma death, self inflicted perma death is fascinating, you 436 00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:18.400 know, Like there's tons of these people who've who've said it's their favorite game 437 00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:22.240 of all time, like yeah, popping. Because of these experiences in the 438 00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:26.920 subculture, it's a game that continues to be something interesting to look back on, 439 00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:30.039 at least for me and to watch, which is why I've watched so 440 00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:33.279 many playthroughs of it, because I'm like, what a weird experiment they have 441 00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:37.200 done. It's cool, all right, your next one game number eighty five, 442 00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:41.519 all right, so something that's gonna be worse than that. Yes, 443 00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:49.519 fascinating. Okay, my number eighty five is speaking of co op multiplayer beat 444 00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:56.640 him up. It's Castle Crashers. Castle Crashers exploded when it came out, 445 00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:00.680 and the fact that you've not reacted at all makes me you haven't played it. 446 00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:02.240 I have. Actually I own a copy of Castle Crushers. Um. 447 00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:06.920 I am a member. Every con I went to, people are dressed to 448 00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:10.240 members the nights. Um. Every time I went to buddy's houses, they 449 00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:14.880 were all playing it. Uh. This was an era um, and it's 450 00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:19.160 one that I didn't really love. Um. It has weird bathroom humor in 451 00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:22.400 it that I don't really drive with. Yeah, I love side scrolling beat 452 00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:27.079 him up, but it also like wasn't quite enough there. Um. I'm 453 00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:30.440 looking at this list here, and I'm looking at the like the seventy five 454 00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:34.599 to eighty five range that I have in front of me, And these are 455 00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:38.079 games that I had a good enough time with and I will never play again. 456 00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:43.640 And that's why I didn't react, Because I have played Castle Crashes. 457 00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:45.839 I think I like three hours on it on Steam something like that. Woh 458 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:49.640 okay, well, yes you can't play it on Steam. It's like at 459 00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:53.200 your buddy's house and Doritos. Everyone's there. You're playing until way too late 460 00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:57.759 because you don't care about the first class you have in the morning. It's 461 00:32:57.799 --> 00:33:01.799 it's a It's a quintessential college game with like ear buddies. Yeah, I 462 00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:06.359 just I liked it. It was fine, and I played a couple of 463 00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:08.559 times as a friends online. I think it would have had a better experience 464 00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:15.359 if I had done what you were describing truthfully, but it was fine. 465 00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:19.759 I remember being like, this is a confident beat him up with new Grounds 466 00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:23.559 level humor, like early new Grounds level humor. A lot of this stuff 467 00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:27.319 is it's a time and place, and I think a lot of it you 468 00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:31.119 it gets missed, you know, And this was a game that like really 469 00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:36.200 hit the zye Geis when it came out, it was massively popular, and 470 00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:39.680 personally, I find myself outside a lot of these events, a lot of 471 00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:46.240 these zye geis oftentimes by choice. When things kind of explode into pop culture, 472 00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:52.359 I immediately become very suspicious of it. I never watched Lost because it 473 00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:54.920 was like a fanatical thing and people lose in their minds, and I was 474 00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:58.480 just immediately suspicious. People were like, no, no, no, no, 475 00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:00.200 it's the best thing in the world, and I'm like, let's let's 476 00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:04.440 let's cool our jets, right, And then I don't know, and then 477 00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:07.880 people turned on it the same thing with like a Game of Thrones, like 478 00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:12.760 everyone it was. It was destination television, and then the last couple of 479 00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:17.079 seasons where they weren't the books anymore, and then subculture revolted. You know, 480 00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:22.000 people, people are so dickle especially when they feel like they've been lied 481 00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:25.679 to by the thing that they've poured their heart and sold as a lifelong Game 482 00:34:25.719 --> 00:34:30.480 of Thrones fan. I will say it is the lack of fickleness there. 483 00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:35.519 It is that that season eight was every principle of good writing that you have 484 00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:39.039 ever espoused, Graham. They betrayed all of it all at once. Seven 485 00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:43.360 wasn't very good, and I liked it very good. I Seven felt like 486 00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:45.000 set up. I think people didn't like seven because it felt like set up. 487 00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:47.639 I think that was the wind up and we were like, oh man, 488 00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:53.039 it's gonna be great, and then um, we'll see see that. 489 00:34:53.039 --> 00:35:00.079 That wind up immediately makes me suspicious because I've seen jj Abrahms really give talks 490 00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:05.639 about his mystery box, where he he carries a freaking box on stage with 491 00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:07.400 a question mark on it, and he's like, this is how I write 492 00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:12.000 mysteries, like it's the coolest thing in the world. And instead I'm screaming 493 00:35:12.039 --> 00:35:14.679 at him, right, like, that's not how you write a mystery. 494 00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:17.920 That's how you disappoint, right, That's how you write people's hearts. Right. 495 00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:23.119 It is the most casey at the bat experience. But the problem is 496 00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:31.000 I love. But that is an intentional like anti climax. But all these 497 00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:36.360 are unintentional anti climaxes. Oh yeah, but but but I think how how 498 00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:42.079 the fans of the Mudville nine felt is how I felt watching Game of Thrown 499 00:35:42.119 --> 00:35:45.800 season eight. Um, we're gonna bounce really hard though into this next part 500 00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:52.840 of the list. Okay, eighteen eighteen eighty five to eighteen. That's a 501 00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:58.599 huge jump. So we're gonna talk about something that is slightly better than Hill 502 00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:05.239 divers O. This is the best game of its kind. It started revolution 503 00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:10.960 all of a sudden, people of different inclinations were suddenly playing a different type 504 00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:15.280 of video game because it hit the mainstream. But it was designed like something 505 00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:22.519 was indie again, coming from something that was wildly popular, a television property 506 00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:28.760 that came down into a quiet, individual kind of design that was deeply narrative, 507 00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:31.280 also kind of lied to you about what it was about. That is 508 00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:38.239 the Walking Dead, the Walking the Telltale one. Yeah, eighteen, number 509 00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:45.360 eighteen, incredible game, and every other Tolltale game that came after was a 510 00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:50.280 pale, a pale, pale shadow of it. And this one was great. 511 00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:53.599 Despite the fact that again, these tropes that became more and more transparency 512 00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:58.079 that went on. This person will remember that, No they won't. That's 513 00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:00.320 a lie. The game's literally lying to you. This is a great tie 514 00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:05.039 in with jj abrams where they're promising things that don't pay off. Boom. 515 00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:07.800 That's the Walking Dead tall Tale game. But the game is incredible. It's 516 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:13.400 perfectly paced, It's got an incredible ending. I give a lot of props 517 00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:17.280 to great openings and great endings and pacing. Yeah, I can. I 518 00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:22.519 can forgive a lot of stuff if all of those things are are in place. 519 00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:30.480 And the Walking Dead tall Tale game was incredible. Um, it came 520 00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:34.000 at a time in which people have gotten tired of like quick time events. 521 00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:36.599 They were like, this is this is uh, this is a grift. 522 00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:40.920 Um. But also it was on consoles, so people were playing narrative games, 523 00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:44.800 and so all of a sudden, people who love point click games were 524 00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:46.280 there. But then people are like, oh wait, this is slow pace 525 00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:50.400 and all I do is walk around. But it gripped to people in such 526 00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:59.239 a way and and and spurred on a whole line of deeply mediocre fash Yeah. 527 00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:01.559 But I think everything you've said about it is is true. I think 528 00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:07.239 it is perfectly paced at the ending slaps. I think the beginning slaps at 529 00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:09.440 the pace. I think the pace is its strongest weapon. I feel like 530 00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:15.079 just goes goes, goes, goes goes. Yeah, this like five chapter 531 00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:21.119 thing which kind of became popular again also in the indie sphere where you maybe 532 00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:24.079 you don't have the money to make make a full game. Um, I 533 00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:28.800 for dang, I'm blanking on the name. Did you play the narrative game 534 00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:34.800 where where you're a teenage girl who can go back in time? Uh, 535 00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:38.760 life is strange? No, no, And I did not that it was 536 00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:45.440 okay. It looked that looked okay. I wanted I wanted to like it, 537 00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:52.960 and it uh didn't stick to landing, but it was, but it 538 00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:58.599 came from a similar kind of uh indie world. The five chapters deeply narrative. 539 00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:00.599 You're a person walking around this kind of like new generation of point and 540 00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:04.920 click. I love point and click games. I always have. There were 541 00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:07.599 some of the first games that I played when I was way too little and 542 00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:13.280 didn't understand them. I have deep memories of being traumatized by playing King's Quest 543 00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:16.360 different kings Quest games at an early age, and being horribly murdered by something 544 00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:22.480 and then like screaming because I was five years old. Yeah, so I 545 00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:24.360 have a soft spot in this, and I think The Walking Dead. I 546 00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:29.599 read the comic and didn't love it, and then the TV show came out 547 00:39:29.719 --> 00:39:34.639 and everyone loved it, and then I honestly think this form is probably the 548 00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:37.079 best thing to come out of the whole franchise, because now we're like three 549 00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:42.239 spinoffs deep or whatever, and honestly, I don't know anybody that watches them 550 00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:46.679 anymore. Like, yeah, and a partridge in the peatree three spinoffs and 551 00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:54.360 I liked the first season. I think of The Walking Dead and then completely 552 00:39:54.519 --> 00:40:00.000 gave up on it. But I love the game. The game is great. 553 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:01.599 The game is. The game is sick, all right, So grip, 554 00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:06.400 I have one more random one. And then I want to hear, 555 00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:08.719 well, I'll tell you what we can do this everyone, there are no 556 00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:10.800 I know, I know. I'm just letting you know that I have one 557 00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:14.920 more random one. So we're going to continue. Move up your list. 558 00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:20.119 It is number fourteen. Awesome, Okay. I'm excited to talk about fourteen 559 00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:27.519 because it ties into basically a series that has spread pretty evenly across this whole 560 00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:32.360 thing and into the present day. A mainstream series that I'm a slight apologist 561 00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:37.800 for and a thing that it's very easy for me to find people who've played 562 00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:40.960 this series and you can talk about it, and I'm always a little embarrassed 563 00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:45.480 by how much I like it. But number fourteen is Assassin's Creed two. 564 00:40:47.079 --> 00:40:55.360 Assassin's Creed two is so good. Assassin's Creed two is an apology for everything 565 00:40:55.400 --> 00:40:59.679 that people didn't like about Assassin's Creed one, and let's talk about it, 566 00:40:59.719 --> 00:41:07.760 because I like Assassin's Creed is not good about it talking about terrible past and 567 00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:15.400 talk about jank mechanics, um, but being like a Muslim assassin in the 568 00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:22.119 Crusades and the freedom it felt so next Gene when it came truly I and 569 00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:30.320 I am a lover of the Prince of Persia games, which is a direct 570 00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:36.400 design uh jump from that, as well as a Thief one and two um 571 00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:39.760 on the PC. So my all time favorite games and Prince of Persia led 572 00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:45.000 directly into what has become basically all of Assassin's Creed. And I liked Assassin's 573 00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:49.159 Creed one, but they're like, wasn't much diversity and your character is kind 574 00:41:49.159 --> 00:41:52.480 of boring and you had an American accent for some reason, and the story 575 00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:57.280 was kind of bad um and every time you were in the modern day it 576 00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:02.440 was awful and it took you forever to it going. And then whoever was 577 00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:07.199 in charge sat down in a table and we're like, okay, we've we 578 00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:12.159 have this golden goose. How do we apologize to every single person on the 579 00:42:12.159 --> 00:42:15.440 planet Earth who've played this game? And they made Assassin's Creed too, which 580 00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:21.599 beginning to end is incredible. Every every place you go is amazing. The 581 00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:24.039 quality of light and venice, the fact that the boss fight is spoilers. 582 00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:30.280 You punched the both in the face competedly. Yeah, and then and then 583 00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:35.960 the framing device actually worked. Yeah, most of it doesn't, and many 584 00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:38.360 games down the line in the series are all kind of stupid and nobody really 585 00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:44.000 cares about a modern day and then be the ultimate framing device of like gods 586 00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:49.880 and interdimensional stuff. But Assassins Creed two did it exceptionally well, and it 587 00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:52.000 was a long time before I felt like a game was ever as good at 588 00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:57.880 it again. Also the best protagonist out of the Assassins Creed series. I'm 589 00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:01.880 gonna I will I'll say I like Assassin's creed honesty a lot okay, good, 590 00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:06.320 A lot of people do because it's kind of a build your own but 591 00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:08.760 because they like obviously they have a voice in a part of that story. 592 00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:13.800 But very it's by very BioWare at this point, they've become they've gone full 593 00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:19.079 on BioWare. But um so god, I respect the heck out of whoever 594 00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:22.239 was like, we're gonna make this character, and it's gonna be this character 595 00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:27.440 and you're gonna play as him. There I hesitate. I don't know if 596 00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:34.840 there is a cooler video game character than I love et Ceo. Ceo is 597 00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:37.760 the man. Oh my god, that whole game was so good, dude, 598 00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:42.119 I I again again. The Pacers, So I talked about the final 599 00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:45.960 boss fight where you bunch Rodrigo Borgia like repeated any of the face yes, 600 00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:52.119 but um you you don't even like talk about the fact that you're an assassin. 601 00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:54.360 Like many other games like Black Flag with people love right, they're like 602 00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:58.760 you get to pirate, like okay, whatever, like it's lost its way 603 00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:01.559 or it's something different. Who cares try to embrace it. They're desperately just 604 00:44:01.559 --> 00:44:06.639 trying to make money, so whatever, and people had fun being pirates, 605 00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:13.840 but the idea that you were a person and that you completely embodied them and 606 00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:16.639 then went through an emotional journey with him, right and at the end you 607 00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:21.039 were like, you felt like you had become this assassin. They really did 608 00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:24.119 deliver on their own lore, which and most all video games of a triple 609 00:44:24.159 --> 00:44:30.760 A nature are really have a trouble with delivering lore in a way that like 610 00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:36.800 they're it's self important, and Assassin's Creed is not immune to that. But 611 00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:43.199 the emotional journey of Assassin's Creed too broadly, out out out classed the kind 612 00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:45.800 of game that it was. But that's why that's why I think SEO is 613 00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:49.920 my favorite, because it felt like it was the one that they owned the 614 00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:52.159 most. They were like, this is it. They knew exactly what kind 615 00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:57.119 of story they were trying to tell it at CEO, even down to Assassin's 616 00:44:57.119 --> 00:45:00.039 Creed Brotherhood, which I actually really enjoyed, Bro, there's fabulous. Yeah, 617 00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:04.159 I just don't like it as much because again, the emotional arc. 618 00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:08.199 Maybe mechanically it might be better, but I just love You're a kid jumping 619 00:45:08.199 --> 00:45:13.440 out of windows, to punching the Pope, to all the assassins coming through 620 00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:15.280 and being like here we are. But it was to watch him be like 621 00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:21.000 become go from the swaggering devil, make care, I have no responsibilities, 622 00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:23.800 young men, badass assassin that he was, which is again the great as 623 00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:27.519 such a great power fantasy to him being this kind of like, oh, 624 00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:30.280 I have to be a father figure now to this group of assassins. And 625 00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:35.320 that was a cool arc too, So you know, tell me a fellow 626 00:45:35.320 --> 00:45:37.599 apologist, it's what I'm saying. I think. I think Assassin's Creek two 627 00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:44.320 is dope. I think that the overwhelming majority of the games are either bad 628 00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:51.199 or fine. Yeah, and I um, I was out for a while. 629 00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:53.719 Um. And the problem is that every once in a while, when 630 00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:57.719 I think they've brought me back in, I'll then play a game and they 631 00:45:57.719 --> 00:46:01.679 pulled me right back out. So stuff. The recent ones have not been 632 00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:08.679 Oh god, I despised. I despised. What is it? Ragnarot? 633 00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:13.719 No, Bahalla bhalla. I just blushed, filalla. It's so hard. 634 00:46:14.360 --> 00:46:22.239 Yeah, it's not. It's not great. Did not look particularly enjoyable, 635 00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:22.760 which if I didn't play it, I was like, you know what, 636 00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:25.760 I'm good. I think I've I've had my moment with Assassin's Creed. The 637 00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:29.760 problem is that they brought me in so hard of Odyssey. I was like, 638 00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:31.400 okay, you've brought me back in. Okay, I'll play it, 639 00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:37.360 And then it brought me back out again. Odyssey is incredible. Yeah. 640 00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:39.639 I haven't played Odyssey either. I'm not a I don't know. Maybe maybe 641 00:46:39.639 --> 00:46:44.480 I missed the open world enjoyment of Assassin's Creed. Maybe I'll come back to 642 00:46:44.519 --> 00:46:47.119 it at some point. But speaking of come back to it, we have 643 00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:52.760 two left. What is number one twenty seven on your list? It's another 644 00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:58.559 Assassin's Creed game. Can you guess which one the three? Yep? Yeah 645 00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:07.320 said three? Yeah, um yeah. I'll try and wrap this up fast 646 00:47:07.360 --> 00:47:09.559 because it's so funny that you jumped right to the end there. Um, 647 00:47:10.639 --> 00:47:15.880 like two is fabulous. I love Brotherhood. It wasn't as emotional, but 648 00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:20.079 mechanically maybe more contained because you only are in one city or just in Rome. 649 00:47:20.679 --> 00:47:23.880 Um. And then uh was what was the last one of the trilogy? 650 00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:30.400 It was fine? So one one one I thought was actually good if 651 00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:34.480 flawed. I thought, well, actually I think one is great if flawed. 652 00:47:35.199 --> 00:47:37.880 Um, and two is perfect. And then that was the last one 653 00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:39.039 of the trilogy, original trilogy that I thought, no, no, no, 654 00:47:39.159 --> 00:47:43.320 no, So there's there's an Eteo trilogy. Oh it's you and then 655 00:47:43.360 --> 00:47:47.159 Brotherhood and then We'll be Gone or whatever. That one it was, it 656 00:47:47.239 --> 00:47:51.519 was it was fine, Uh, it was it was we need to end 657 00:47:51.519 --> 00:47:53.599 his story and it felt like they kind of just sneezed it out or whatever. 658 00:47:53.960 --> 00:47:59.840 Yeah, and then three it is this like big big Swanson, You 659 00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:01.840 like, oh, we're gonna change, We're gonna go radically in the future, 660 00:48:01.880 --> 00:48:04.760 We're gonna have a new continent. Were gonna do all these things. 661 00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:12.599 Um and uh. I hated basically every single aspect. Yeah, and they 662 00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:15.039 decided the ships were good. They ripped, ripped that part portion out, 663 00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:20.679 moved aside and said we're just gonna do straight up pirates. But like every 664 00:48:20.679 --> 00:48:24.880 aspect of three made me so Yeah, it's bad to the point where like 665 00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:30.039 playing Black Flag, which is great, if you would go to a city 666 00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:31.840 that reminded me a little bit of Boston or Philadelphia, like I would get 667 00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:37.079 weird flashbacks and be like, no, this is this is awful. Yeah, 668 00:48:37.159 --> 00:48:39.840 yeah, I'm with you. Pacing was wonky, the controls felt bad, 669 00:48:40.360 --> 00:48:44.320 you were awful. Um, I was super excited to have a native 670 00:48:44.320 --> 00:48:47.320 American protagonist. And the way that they wrote Connor was and he was awful, 671 00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:52.159 unbelievably boring. Yeah, yeah, obnoxious truthfully, Like I remember being 672 00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:57.360 like, this guy's insufferable to be around, Like ALTI Erin got away with 673 00:48:57.400 --> 00:49:00.719 some of the stuff that he did because he there was so which mystery to 674 00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:04.760 him. I thought, right, he was aloof, yes, aloof in 675 00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:09.960 a really obnoxious way, like he was Eric warnings to quote to quote a 676 00:49:10.039 --> 00:49:14.119 great phrase that I learned from a good friend. Um. But he got 677 00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:17.360 away with it because no one had ever swan dived into a cathedral full of 678 00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:22.960 heavily armed templars, killed them all and then left right like and Connor was 679 00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:23.960 like, I get killed by a tree branch. I'm like, God, 680 00:49:24.440 --> 00:49:28.800 come on, man, that the number of times you would jump off the 681 00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:32.039 thing, how bad it was. And it was like the worst sins of 682 00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:36.679 the series that that came out to roost immediately. It was the like Cam 683 00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:38.840 and two. You were like, okay, Leonard da Vinci, all right, 684 00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:43.559 I guess I buy it, And they didn't really overdo it. But 685 00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:50.079 then running around with the Patriots and like slowly pannied past Ben Franklin while Connor's 686 00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:52.400 like mumbling. And then I get in a really boring action scene and I 687 00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:57.360 jump off the wrong roof and I keep killing myself like I was miserable. 688 00:49:57.400 --> 00:50:00.599 I was miserable beginning to end. And I said, no, I didn't 689 00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:07.840 play an Assassin's Creed until Origins. Basically, I'm sorry as well. No, 690 00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:09.760 Origins is great? Are you kidding me? Was it the French Revolution 691 00:50:09.800 --> 00:50:15.239 one that's Unity? I have not played Unity. Which one was awarded for 692 00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:20.480 Origins is the Egypt one, which they completely reworked it. They took maybe 693 00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:23.719 two years off. It's an ancient Egypt, and it feels like a totally 694 00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:27.519 new game. It was the first one to introduce RPG mechanics. Okay, 695 00:50:27.599 --> 00:50:30.920 okay, it's It's just it's really good because it doesn't feel like an Assassin's 696 00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:35.079 Screed game. And that didn't bother me. It feels like a fabulous action 697 00:50:35.159 --> 00:50:39.039 game in a great setting in in ancient Egypt. Like again, it capture 698 00:50:39.079 --> 00:50:43.639 that magic of you've been transported into a place you can never possibly see. 699 00:50:43.639 --> 00:50:46.599 I love ancient Egypt, so I mean you gotta play Origins. I gotta 700 00:50:46.599 --> 00:50:51.000 play, all right? Um? And then our last one for today. 701 00:50:51.800 --> 00:50:55.360 Number two on your list, you curved me and number two on your list 702 00:50:55.719 --> 00:50:58.719 because I want, I want to do a second part of this. I 703 00:50:58.719 --> 00:51:01.599 think this was super fun, cool, so and I want I want people 704 00:51:01.639 --> 00:51:05.119 to come back for part two. And so we're gonna save it number one 705 00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:07.000 for part two. Yeah, I'm gonna clickbat them. I don't care a 706 00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:13.360 click batim. We got them all right, Number two, Number two is 707 00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:17.400 a game that essentially is a spiritual successor or remake of what many people consider 708 00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:22.760 to be the best video game ever made. And it builted up from the 709 00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:27.239 ground up. It took an entire section of kind of mainstream gamers and then 710 00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:30.360 the strategy gamers who kind of hit in their corner and played things, and 711 00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:37.880 it added a completely several layers of strategy which you're still being inerted on and 712 00:51:37.960 --> 00:51:43.079 changed and changed. It's very Cyclopean in nature what this game specifically did. 713 00:51:43.719 --> 00:51:50.280 And it is a game that is dry but feels so engaging that I feel 714 00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:54.880 like the story is very player driven. The idea that you can get attached 715 00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:59.480 to these boring little people because you get to name them and change their hair 716 00:51:59.480 --> 00:52:02.760 colors and get on and when they die, because permath was a big deal. 717 00:52:04.280 --> 00:52:10.519 You get so sad a game that did not hesitate to be way too 718 00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:15.679 hard to beat had you just said to start over in the mainstream. That's 719 00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:23.440 x COM Enemy Unknown my number two of this era. Incredible game, Incredible 720 00:52:23.480 --> 00:52:29.400 game. And then after a while there were games that always had that could. 721 00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:36.239 It continued to populate the design scape in a very very very positive way 722 00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:40.320 because all these people played x Com and Xcom is fascinating because it's so much 723 00:52:40.360 --> 00:52:44.639 like a board game, because they tried to make it like a board game. 724 00:52:44.679 --> 00:52:47.039 It came out at the same time in which the board revolution was taken 725 00:52:47.119 --> 00:52:51.280 off, and all of a sudden, these designer games were everywhere, and 726 00:52:52.360 --> 00:52:57.719 Enemy Unknown is weirdly dry and specific. You know, in a game in 727 00:52:57.800 --> 00:53:02.199 an era where you have these bombastic things, things like like Uncharted and Gears 728 00:53:02.199 --> 00:53:07.480 of War and you know, Grant Theft out of four where things are getting 729 00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:10.440 bigger and bigger, all of a sudden you had this like gritty little throwback 730 00:53:10.559 --> 00:53:15.199 game where you move people across and you try and make perfect shots, and 731 00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:19.639 like nobody has any personalities, but you cry when your little soldiers die. 732 00:53:19.840 --> 00:53:25.360 Yeah, it's so good good. Really it's really freaky good. Like I'm 733 00:53:25.400 --> 00:53:31.360 sitting in silence because I loved xcom. God, it's so good and like 734 00:53:31.559 --> 00:53:35.920 we all got attached. In college, a friend of ours did a playthrough 735 00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:42.320 of x com um and called his team Wolf Squad and named every member on 736 00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:45.440 the team after us. That's mistake, and like, I was like the 737 00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:51.000 leader I was, I was, I was appointed squad leader. Say I 738 00:53:51.039 --> 00:53:52.239 was a squad leader of our group. Like I was the leader of our 739 00:53:52.280 --> 00:53:55.559 group. I was one of rand activities and organized stuff. And so he 740 00:53:55.639 --> 00:53:58.400 was like, oh, yeah, I made your squad leader. And he's 741 00:53:58.400 --> 00:54:00.519 like, yeah, we're Wolf Squad. We got cool stuff. And then 742 00:54:00.559 --> 00:54:04.079 we all died horribly and then he deleted the same He's like I couldn't keep 743 00:54:04.119 --> 00:54:07.920 doing It was like that memory of like him coming like into the dining hall 744 00:54:08.239 --> 00:54:13.000 heartbroken and being like, do what's wrong? We thought of it was like 745 00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:15.920 really really really wrong. He goes Wolf Squad, died all the Wolf Squad 746 00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:21.639 just in a single mission. Ah. Yeah, No, I I was 747 00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:23.800 not saying anything for that because I think everything you have said is dead on 748 00:54:23.800 --> 00:54:28.159 the money. I think x COM's incredible and it's incredible it's so good. 749 00:54:28.280 --> 00:54:34.199 It defined this generation. It brought things together, these disparate pieces, and 750 00:54:34.480 --> 00:54:38.280 it continued to change the way design was done to this day. You know, 751 00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:43.960 anytime a game comes out and the headline is x Com Light, people 752 00:54:44.119 --> 00:54:47.639 come running and and it's also a way to get people's attention because people loved 753 00:54:47.679 --> 00:54:52.079 it, so so many games have come out with similar ideas. So the 754 00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:55.599 whole kind of rain of the shadow run returns games, so much of that 755 00:54:55.760 --> 00:55:01.599 is pulled straight out of a comm Dead West is that what it's called. 756 00:55:02.079 --> 00:55:07.679 Weird West. Weird West. Weird West was more recent Play West. I 757 00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:09.840 liked Weird West a lot. Weird West is an immersive SAM. Immersive sims 758 00:55:09.880 --> 00:55:16.519 are amongst my favorite kinds of games. But the the cover full cover, 759 00:55:16.599 --> 00:55:22.760 half cover squad movement thing, like it's so nineties and it worked, and 760 00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:29.639 it worked better than it had any right to be. Recently, the head 761 00:55:29.679 --> 00:55:32.519 designer made that Marvel game, which was fine, and then he left. 762 00:55:34.599 --> 00:55:36.960 I played it when he was free to play for the first three or four 763 00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:39.360 hours, and it was kind of a mess. But I like the combat 764 00:55:39.719 --> 00:55:45.360 because it felt like a fresh take on on Xcom. But anything that continues 765 00:55:45.400 --> 00:55:50.480 to kind of try to redo this thing. I mean, x CON changed 766 00:55:50.599 --> 00:55:53.320 game design and the industry for the better, and we're still reaping the rewards. 767 00:55:53.559 --> 00:55:57.800 And shout out to the fire Access for putting out that, because I 768 00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:00.119 don't think anyone was willing to try that risk at that time other than those 769 00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:05.840 guys. Yeah, yeah, awesome. Well, if you are all interested, 770 00:56:05.880 --> 00:56:07.199 those of you who are listening to a part two of this episode, 771 00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:10.840 it will be coming hopefully soon. Actually, maybe we'll do this next week, 772 00:56:10.880 --> 00:56:14.320 Graham, we'll finish this, we'll cap this thing off, because I 773 00:56:14.320 --> 00:56:16.800 have enjoyed a lot of This has been really fun for me to revisit games 774 00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:20.079 that I had forgotten, that I enjoyed in series that I forgot that I 775 00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:23.239 had played and played religiously for like a very long time. Look, I 776 00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:27.719 have probably one hundred and forty hours long into Farcry three something like that, 777 00:56:27.760 --> 00:56:31.239 and I had forgotten about Farkry three. This is what happens when you grow 778 00:56:31.320 --> 00:56:37.679 up and you get boring and start doing taxes. You've been warned, children, 779 00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:40.800 But I guess if you're still listening, tune in hopefully soon for our 780 00:56:40.840 --> 00:56:44.840 next episode. But don't leave yet, because I have a weird question. 781 00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:50.360 Grant weird question. Before you ask your question, remember you can get After 782 00:56:50.360 --> 00:56:54.199 the Rain at desks and dorics dot com. Please buy it for you, 783 00:56:54.199 --> 00:56:59.239 your family, your friends, and all the people I have here. I 784 00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:02.440 think it's a quote from the New York Times that said it's the single greatest 785 00:57:02.519 --> 00:57:08.800 thing any human has ever made, and it makes the sixteen Chapel look like 786 00:57:09.039 --> 00:57:14.360 garbage rotting in the sun. It does. You should be very proud. 787 00:57:14.800 --> 00:57:16.519 That's why we didn't do expansions for it. Pope asked me too personally, 788 00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:23.360 so he's going to sunch that old guy in the Faith, Rodrigo Borgia. 789 00:57:23.960 --> 00:57:28.239 Oh my gosh, yes, thank you Graham for that. Yes absolutely, 790 00:57:28.280 --> 00:57:32.079 please, you know, please buy a copy After the Rain. Um Becoming 791 00:57:32.079 --> 00:57:35.920 banana Bread is gonna be available on destin doorks dot org very soon. A 792 00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:38.679 fear of Thing's gonna be available on deskin doorks that org very soon. UM 793 00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:43.159 go follow Graham gants on all the socials as he could. Dude, should 794 00:57:43.199 --> 00:57:47.400 do that. Um And hopefully when Under the Autumn strangely comes out, I 795 00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:52.719 get my Copiason it's coming in spooky season October. You will all be able 796 00:57:52.760 --> 00:57:55.599 to get some copies as well, because it'll be worth playing. Having having 797 00:57:55.840 --> 00:58:00.519 not only bought it but tested it as well, I enjoyed the enjoyed the 798 00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:04.320 actual crap out of that. So, Um, Graham, you're right for 799 00:58:04.360 --> 00:58:07.320 your weird question always, what is the best part of the McDonald's playplace? 800 00:58:13.280 --> 00:58:21.360 I mean what every I was gonna say the sliding puzzle, but yours was 801 00:58:21.400 --> 00:58:28.880 way more profound. Um, the memory, the memory of it. I 802 00:58:28.880 --> 00:58:32.159 don't know if that's it, that's the answer, it's it's it's the you 803 00:58:32.199 --> 00:58:38.079 can't ever return home again thing, like when you are too young and like 804 00:58:38.360 --> 00:58:43.000 lacking in the critical thought, and it's this wonderful thing in place like you 805 00:58:43.079 --> 00:58:45.199 go to McDonald's. I didn't eat a live fast food growing up. It's 806 00:58:45.280 --> 00:58:47.960 very very rare we got to do such a thing. And if you went 807 00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:52.239 to McDonald's and there was a play place, oh, it was an event. 808 00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:54.639 All of TV land was true. It was an event. You had 809 00:58:54.719 --> 00:58:59.280 not been lied to. This. This is before the time in which like 810 00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:04.000 I in childcare and I took kids to places like this and from the top 811 00:59:04.119 --> 00:59:07.440 row I would see little's start to pee and then the whole thing like leaking 812 00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:12.400 down right, These four things that have yet to breach my mind, and 813 00:59:13.159 --> 00:59:17.239 the countless then conversations that I have with people sitting around in cafes or bars 814 00:59:17.280 --> 00:59:21.599 and were like a better play places and somebody being like they were so disgusting. 815 00:59:21.679 --> 00:59:23.760 Imagine going around with that thing, and then you have it to consider 816 00:59:23.800 --> 00:59:29.000 as an adult, You're like, you're probably right. Yeah at the time. 817 00:59:29.480 --> 00:59:34.960 Oh, gas, memory, absolute gas, the memory. That's the 818 00:59:34.960 --> 00:59:43.039 best names. I chose the sliding puzzle because I liked and I think on 819 00:59:43.119 --> 00:59:45.000 that point, I think that's a great place for us to end the episode. 820 00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:49.039 You can joined us next week to figure out maybe what is Graham's number 821 00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:52.440 one game, which would be very excited. It's the whole raison. I 822 00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:54.079 bought a PS three. I'll leave you with that. I bought a PS 823 00:59:54.159 --> 00:59:59.760 three to play this game and it is still my number one game of this 824 01:00:00.039 --> 01:00:01.679 iteration. Oh I love that hint. But until next time, I am 825 01:00:01.760 --> 01:00:06.639 Kyle out for desks and dorks. I've been Graham Ganz, You've been awesome. 826 01:00:06.800 --> 01:00:10.159 Zippity zap zao, stay bogging, my friends. Goodbye, everybody,