WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:04.240 All that authenticity starts to get on my nerves after a week, but for 2 00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:09.800 a period of time he's great. Ask not what your country can do for 3 00:00:09.919 --> 00:00:16.280 you, ask what you can do for your country. Mister Garbahaw, tear 4 00:00:16.559 --> 00:00:21.800 down this wall. It's the Ricochet Podcast. I am Rob Long in New 5 00:00:21.879 --> 00:00:25.839 York. I'm joined today by Peter Robinson and Palo Alto. James Lilas is 6 00:00:25.879 --> 00:00:29.359 off this week, and our guest today Andrew Clayton. Drew Clayven will be 7 00:00:29.399 --> 00:00:33.719 joining us in a minute. Let's get this podcast started. Once you get 8 00:00:33.799 --> 00:00:38.520 here, I'll know the uh workers on the key bridge and then stop the 9 00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:43.479 holy take thirteen, this beast, the whole bridge just found out. Start 10 00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:48.679 started. Whoever everybody, the whole bridge just collapsed. Well this question is 11 00:00:48.679 --> 00:00:53.679 directed. That's correct. Give you no hot traffic stop. I can't get 12 00:00:53.759 --> 00:00:58.920 to the other side whether the bridge is down. Welcome to the Rickchet Podcast. 13 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:04.120 This is number six hundred and eighty five. We have missed spent our 14 00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:08.480 lives. We're gonna do a thousand of these, aren't we before? Oh 15 00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:11.959 yes we will. I don't know. I am Rob Long, a co 16 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:17.239 founder of Ricochet and joined me as always as my co founder, Peter Robinson 17 00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:19.120 and Palo Alto. Peter, how are you? I'm well, Rob, 18 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:25.079 all the better for hearing your cheerful voice. Cheerful. Oh okay, I 19 00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:27.599 got to amend that it's a mondy. I know, I know if if, 20 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:32.519 if the news is the missiles will strike in twelve minutes, I'm going 21 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:36.760 to give you a call. I have never heard you sound less than cheerful, 22 00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:41.239 even when you're saying things. Yeah, I'll take out to bad people 23 00:01:41.239 --> 00:01:45.079 too, I'll say. And we are usually joined by James Lilas James lys 24 00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:48.239 Nott Availble. Today he is off doing something very interesting, I'm sure, 25 00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:53.599 and he will be back next week. And uh this today we have a 26 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:57.920 guest, Andrew Claven. Drew claved to us, who's an old friend of 27 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:00.719 mine, a friend of ours, and he's gonna join us a little bit. 28 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:05.000 But before we get to Drew, can we just say we should say 29 00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:10.120 something about the death yesterday at eighty two years old of Joe Lieberman. Joe 30 00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:16.960 Lieberman was a cenator from Connecticut and a former vice presidential candidate. He was 31 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:23.639 eighty two years old. And I cannot think of another Democrat or am I 32 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:30.199 being unkind who represented the kind of Joe Lieberman ish. He was the Lasian, 33 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:34.919 the last kind of moderate dem would be considered a kind of a liberal 34 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:39.400 republican modern Democrat, new Deal, almost Harry Truman Democrat. He believed in 35 00:02:39.479 --> 00:02:46.280 a big government and a very healthy welfare state to help the less well off. 36 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:51.199 Our critique of that is now well our. The conservative critique of that 37 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:53.159 is of course very well known at this stage, that you build a big 38 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:58.639 welfare state and actually hurts those. Nevertheless, those are his intentions, and 39 00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:04.439 what sets him apart is that he from today's Democrats is that Joe Lieberman was 40 00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:10.759 unwoke. He wanted strong national defenses. He wished that wherever the United States, 41 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:15.000 for it, faced adversaries in the world, that the United States would 42 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:21.719 prevail and the adversaries would lose. And he was pro Israel and also a 43 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:27.199 personally religious man, an observant Jew who refused to work on the Sabbath, 44 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:30.479 refused to attend Senate sessions, which are sometimes called over the weekend, and 45 00:03:31.240 --> 00:03:35.439 simply said, I have my religion that comes first. So he would and 46 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:38.520 I didn't, I say the last time I saw him, as though I 47 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:42.000 saw him every Weekend. I saw him half a dozen times in my life. 48 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:45.719 But he came to the National Review. Oh gosh, Rob, what 49 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:46.840 would it have been? It was ages ago now, but something like the 50 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:51.479 sixtieth anniversary dinner of National Review. Yeah, that's right, the kitos forever 51 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:53.800 ago. Joe Lieberman was not a conservative. He would never have voted the 52 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:57.439 way National Review wanted him to vote. But he was making a point, 53 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:02.400 and that point was we listen to each other. So he was an admirable 54 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:06.719 man, an altogether admirable man with whom I would have disagreed and he would 55 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:11.680 have sat there and listened to the disagreement. Yeah, he would have contended 56 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:15.160 with you in in a way that was he was. He was a friend 57 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:23.600 I think to debate. He was a friend to civility. But that didn't 58 00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:26.560 mean he was an milk toast. And uh, last time I saw him, 59 00:04:26.600 --> 00:04:30.879 this is a long time ago, was at the commentary magazine Roast, 60 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:33.519 and they was to jumping ours this thing. It's really kind of a brilliant 61 00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:38.480 money making scheme where you you find somebody famous, you roast. It's like 62 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:41.560 a regular Comedy Central rose to the old D Martin Roast and then people pay 63 00:04:41.560 --> 00:04:45.120 a lot of money for tables to sit there and watch this this famous, 64 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:48.480 well known person get roasted, and it's often uh soft, you know. 65 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:53.079 There's some people come in and there was like, you know that is that 66 00:04:53.439 --> 00:04:56.720 is the the equivalent of a when you're being interviewed for a job and somebody 67 00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:59.279 says, what are your what are your biggest weaknesses? And you say, 68 00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:00.240 oh, I just I care too much. You know, a lot of 69 00:05:00.279 --> 00:05:03.839 it is like that bad stuff, but some of it is great and has 70 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:12.800 teeth and it's hilarious. And the best one I saw was Megan McCain, 71 00:05:13.399 --> 00:05:17.839 John McCain's daughter, Megan mcain right, Megan yes, Yes, and John 72 00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:23.240 McCain and and Jolie were very very close friends, very very good friends, 73 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:26.839 and so she knew him for Uncle Joe, she knewhim forever, hers, 74 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:33.600 her whole life. And she gave the most vicious, hilarious roast. And 75 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:38.800 he was kind of doing that thing. The last time I was supposed to 76 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:45.920 be laughed that hard was Reagan at this second inaugural, the TV special banquet, 77 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:48.920 and Don Rickles is just going after him, remember, and you just 78 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:55.759 would cut up to Reagan and Nancy and Reagan was like eyes were like crying. 79 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:58.720 He was crying, laughing so hard. And then of course Nancy was 80 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:02.319 not laughing at all. She was not enjoying it. But he was live 81 00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:04.800 very hard. And she had this great joke. She said, the great 82 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:11.319 thing Joe Liban was he always put his country above his party. Always we 83 00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:14.439 just never knew what party it was. We always knew what country it was. 84 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:19.319 Israel killed uh, and he was he was. I mean, he 85 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:24.720 seemed like the he seemed like a real gentleman. And it's a you know, 86 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:28.120 tempting to say things like, well, that's that no more of those 87 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:30.319 guys around, but I suspect that there are probably some people who are there 88 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:35.560 have to be okay. And meanwhile, events in York Town of Baltimore, 89 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:41.879 Baltimore, so that's a I guess it's uh, I forget it's a Singapore 90 00:06:42.399 --> 00:06:48.079 prater, Sringapore Singapore flagship. I think ship the Dolly. The Dolly hit 91 00:06:48.279 --> 00:06:55.000 the bridge supports of the Francis Scott Key Bridge and took it down. I 92 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:57.839 mean, first of all, it's kind of amazing because you see these things 93 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:01.360 floating and you think, you just forget, that's an enormous amount of mass 94 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:06.199 traveling at a speed, and it discusses in the water doesn't mean it's not 95 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:10.560 going to knock something down. And you just forget how big these things are. 96 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:14.680 These things are enormous, these container ships. And then the one thing 97 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:17.680 that struck me over and over again was that there's just an instant need for 98 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:25.959 people who don't know anything about it on social media to uh describe their specific 99 00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:33.399 experts. Yeah, iowahawk, David berg I think's burg Bergie Burge said that 100 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:36.240 he said a propos nothing today. I thought I would just kick off this 101 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:41.800 new Twitter trend by mentioning three things I don't know anything about. One, 102 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:47.560 you know, Finnish epic poetry. Two intricacies of South Asian cuisine. Three 103 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:54.120 container shipping. Who's next? But the only thing I know about container ships 104 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:58.680 that I know a bunch, But I mean that is relative relevant here is 105 00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:01.480 that if it was dirty fuel, which some people think it was, that 106 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:05.120 fuel had to probably came from the Baltimore Harbor, right the bunker in the 107 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:09.800 harbor? Or is that the newest thinking? That basically the power went off, 108 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:16.959 the boatstalled, and that it that it's important people remember that the person 109 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:22.480 guiding the these container ships in and out of the harbor of every harbor around 110 00:08:22.519 --> 00:08:28.439 the world. It's a pilot, a local it is always a local pilot. 111 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:31.360 It is never the master of the ship. And this has been true 112 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:33.679 for I mean maybe a century. This has been true for a long long 113 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:37.399 time. And then the other thing that's about it is how amazing it is 114 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:43.039 that they get these pilots on the ship. Depending on how fancy the the 115 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:48.039 the harbor is. On the way in, they sometimes send out a tug 116 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:52.720 right or a speedboat with a pilot on it. They also in big sports 117 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:56.080 like Shanghai and I think I think sometimes Long Beach, which is I think 118 00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:58.559 the biggest part in the world, second bigestport in world, they chopper the 119 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:01.720 guy in that I just kind of dangles down and just jumps on on the 120 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:05.080 deck. Yeah. Really, it's a pretty amazing thing. And then I 121 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:07.519 saw it. I saw it a bunch of times. And then the master 122 00:09:07.679 --> 00:09:13.440 who's in charge of this giant thing, stands back and the pilot just takes 123 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:18.200 over. So that was what was happening there. And then the second thing, 124 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:20.279 the most interesting thing for me, because as you know, I'm kind 125 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:31.080 of junkie about this stuff, is the economic ripple effects huge one ship, 126 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:35.480 one bridge, one bridge, and just the fact that I think we tend 127 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:39.240 to think of ourselves as like, well, it's all about software, it's 128 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:43.360 all about these sort of bits going through the pipes. And the twentieth century 129 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:46.879 we think was brought to us by computers, and I just don't think that's 130 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:50.399 true. I think the modern world's brought to us by container shipping. It 131 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:54.919 is the most remarkable thing I think the past one hundred years. Maybe AI 132 00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:58.360 will exceed it at some point, but right now it's still container shipping. 133 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:03.480 And started because a guy who ran a trucking company in the southeastern part of 134 00:10:03.559 --> 00:10:09.519 United States, I think is his name is mac McLaren was upset that his 135 00:10:09.799 --> 00:10:13.279 trucks would go to the Savannah or the Wilmington or any of these ports, 136 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:16.320 and it take them three days to unload a truck and load it on the 137 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:18.960 boat, or to load the truck back up with stuff from the boat. 138 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:22.240 Remember there's a cargo nets of cargo nets, a giant net. Yes, 139 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:24.960 yes, yes, yes, And he thought it's got to be an easier 140 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:30.440 way. Why don't we just take the back of the truck off the truck 141 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:33.559 and put it in the boat, and then why don't we make it the 142 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:39.000 size of the thing that goes on rolling stock for trains. Why don't we 143 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:45.279 make it all the same thing? And it seems so obvious now, so 144 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:52.120 obvious, But the time and the point you make at how recent this development 145 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:58.720 is in historical terms. You and I know gym Mattis. Jim Mattis is 146 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:01.879 former Secretary Defense, former four star in the Marine Corps, a colleague of 147 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:07.519 mine at the Hoover Institution. When Jim Mattis was if I recall this correctly, 148 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:16.879 sixteen or seventeen years old, he somehow became interested in Eric Hoffer. 149 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:20.159 Do you remember that name. I know, the name Eric Hoffer was the 150 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:26.519 kind of the common man's philosopher. Eric Coffer was a working man in San 151 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:31.519 Francisco, and his job was something that no longer exists and these days even 152 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:37.879 sounds quaint. He was a Steve Adore. Steve Adore. And if you 153 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:41.799 look at the movie again, it's not that long ago. This was a 154 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:45.679 post war movie. It's a great movie. There's a good argument that was 155 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:52.480 Marlon Brando's best performance on the Waterfront. All of those men were Steve Adores. 156 00:11:52.840 --> 00:12:00.759 They handled. These were human beings who carried objects onto ships locally into 157 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:05.440 those cargo nets exactly. I'm the reason I'm mentioning Jim Mattis is that Jim 158 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:09.200 Mattis is not an ancient person. He's retired, but he's not some sort 159 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:16.559 of century old relic. And Jim hitchhiked from his home in Oregon down to 160 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:22.960 San Francisco, no appointment, no nothing, showed up on the docks in 161 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:30.519 San Francisco and started asking guys around for Eric Hoffer. And it took about 162 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:33.559 twenty minutes before the Oh, Eric's right out there, and he saw Eric 163 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:37.879 Coffer sitting on a pier eating a sandwich. It was his lunch break. 164 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:43.000 And Eric Coffer had big arms and big hands because he was a workingman. 165 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:48.080 His classic book is the true believer. In any event, I'm just trying 166 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:52.799 to point this out that this was all recent. It is within living memory 167 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:58.639 that global trade became possible on something like the scale we have today because of 168 00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:01.360 the innovation of cargo shipping. Here's what you tell me, what you say, 169 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:07.480 I'm kind of struck. The very first impulse, at least as reflected 170 00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:11.399 on Twitter, was somebody must have been drunk. They were doing drugs. 171 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:13.039 The pilot didn't know what he was doing. The captain must have been something. 172 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:18.879 Actually, as far as I can tell, the human beings behaved promptly 173 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:24.639 and quickly. As soon as the engine failed, there was an emergency message 174 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:28.399 to the poort authority. It took them something like thirty seconds to block traffic 175 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:33.519 on both ends of that bridge. So I believe the men who whom we 176 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.200 now presumed dead were maintenance workers of some kind. Can you imagine what would 177 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:41.000 have happened. I mean, we know what it's like to drive down the 178 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:45.240 I ninety five corridor. So this is one of those instances where it does 179 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:48.960 seem to have been mechanical failure. The human beings performed as they should have. 180 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:52.159 Remarkable, as far as I can tell, Am I mistaken? No? 181 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:56.480 I think you're absolutely right. I think that actually happens up and down 182 00:13:56.559 --> 00:14:00.320 the chain of container shipping. In general. It's the most important thing in 183 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:03.799 the world, and everybody's a professional and they kind of know that it's the 184 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:07.799 most important thing in the world, so they're kind of professional and they're professional 185 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:11.279 in the when you come steaming into Shanghai or Tianshan, which is the Hong 186 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:15.759 Kong or Bossan, South Korea, as I've done, or Long Beach or 187 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:20.320 Seattle or Oakland. They kind of like they they considering how much gets passed 188 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:26.480 by, passed along the shipping lanes, and that everything we look at, 189 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:31.720 even it's, you know, insanely trivial, is often delivered to us by 190 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:37.360 a container. It kind of works. I mean, I actually feel like 191 00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:41.200 that happens more often than not. That the normal people doing important jobs. 192 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:46.320 You think to yourself, why aren't they in charge? Because the people in 193 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:50.480 charge tend to be horrible. Although I suspect that I expect that they think 194 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:54.320 I do. By the way, another famous stevid or Is was a Senator 195 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:58.639 Patrick Moyne. He was a steved or worked on the docks and said he 196 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:03.799 just you could just up in the hell's kitchen, I guess in the Irish 197 00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:05.960 part of the old Irish part of town in New York. You could just 198 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:11.159 walk a few blocks to the Hudson River docks. Yes, and he could 199 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:13.559 to show up and they would just give you a job. But it took 200 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:16.559 a long time. And so the other story here for if you're a free 201 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:22.840 market conservative is that unions fought I mean, I completely understandably fought container shipping 202 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:26.000 tooth and nail because they knew that once should make it easier. You don't 203 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:31.840 need stevedores. And so now guys they sit on top of cranes and they 204 00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:37.399 move these giant I mean, now it's an amazing ballet. I sat on 205 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:43.960 the top deck of the of the Hand in Miami, in the Bussan Port, 206 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:48.879 and I sat on a folding chair on the deck, smoking a cigar 207 00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:54.559 and watching just under, just above me, hundreds of containers being removed from 208 00:15:54.559 --> 00:16:00.039 the ship, rearranged and put back and reloaded onto the ship. It by 209 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:04.600 five guys and five cranes, and it was like a crazy ballet. Rob. 210 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:10.759 I want you to know. I want you to know that everybody who 211 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:15.000 knows you expect that when there is hard physical labor to be done, so 212 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:21.600 you're sitting at a lawn chair smoking a cigar. That is so true. 213 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:26.559 Speaking of true, we have one of the great writers, great writer and 214 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:30.519 also great novels. So I'm separating these two things. Great political, great 215 00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:36.480 popular crime and mystery novels. Andrew Claven, our friend Drew, but also 216 00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:42.639 a thoughtful, smart and delightfully humorous and fun political and cultural commentator. He's 217 00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:47.360 the host of The Andrew Claven Show. He's been I think that's a daily 218 00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:49.840 wire, has been social daily wire for bazillion years. I'm trying to be 219 00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:52.960 nice to him, so because I could. I'm going to stop the minute 220 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:57.480 he gets here and just say, you gotta if you if you're looking for 221 00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:00.799 a great read, cup, but a bunch of great true crime, Empire 222 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.480 of Lies, the House of Love, the House of Love and Death, 223 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:08.559 along with his memoir The Great Good Thing and the Truth and Beauty. Uh 224 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:15.599 he is. Ah. He is a truly truly renaissance writer and a wonderful 225 00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:18.680 guy and a great friend of course that you and I can't stand the son 226 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:22.200 of them. Yeah, you guys told you. And uh, and so 227 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:26.440 he's here, and so we're gonna gon attempt to be nice and respectful. 228 00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:30.200 Drew Happy Mandy Thursday. Do you celebrate that? I don't know. I 229 00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:37.400 do a weird sect you're in that we know we stuck? Is he really 230 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:42.200 though? I don't know. No, I'm an actual Christian. That's so 231 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:45.960 you do the whole God thing, you guys. Yeah, yeah, we 232 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:48.440 were past that, the Pascapelian faith. I understand. Yeah, I was 233 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:52.480 there. Okay, so look, let's just I don't want to talk about 234 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:56.519 this, right, but let's just do it so we can do it. 235 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:03.200 You're associated with Daily Wire. You've been there for a long time, uh, 236 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:07.039 Benjapiro, Jermy Boring, good friends of ours, good friends of Ricochet. 237 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:11.359 You had a you had a I don't know, a contributor to somebody. 238 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:15.799 I don't I can't quite understand the structure that Candace owens. In my 239 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.160 opinion, this happened too late. But okay, you got rid of her, 240 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:25.000 and then all hell broke loose because you said something because she some You're 241 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:26.279 gonna have to sorry, you just have to. You've got to back it 242 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:32.640 up and explain Candace and what she did and why she Just give us a 243 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:37.720 paragraph you got from Okay, and let me let me just say, first 244 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:38.839 of all, I've been with the Daily Wire. At the beginning. It 245 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:42.279 was me and Jeremy and Ben. That's how it started. You know, 246 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:47.440 you know, given the cast of characters, it is just astonishing that that 247 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:49.400 thing has succeeded. That we're not all on the street or in jail. 248 00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:52.759 I know, it's amazing. I don't know what I don't know what went 249 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:57.599 wrong. We were trying our best, but you know Candace. I spotted 250 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:03.279 Candas instantaneously when she was on YouTube back in the day and she had a 251 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:06.559 small following and she was kind of doing a Blexit thing, you know, 252 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:08.759 black should get out of the Democrat Party. And I thought that I have 253 00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:12.480 an eye for broad sort of a decade ago. Yeah, yeah, okay, 254 00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:17.279 yeah, And I have an eye for you know, broadcast down because 255 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:18.799 I grew up my father was a big radio guy, and I've always been 256 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.480 able to spot it from a mile away. That's why I never talked to 257 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:26.599 you guys. And I saw her, I invited her on my show. 258 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:30.799 She walked out. I literally walked down the hall to Jeremy's offices before he 259 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:33.880 had the Throne room, you know with the guys with the spears and everything. 260 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:37.920 I walked out to Jeremy's office and I said, if you want to 261 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:41.000 hire a woman, I just met her. She's fantastic. He wouldn't do 262 00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:45.079 it, you know, it wasn't time, and so he when he finally 263 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:47.880 went back to her, she had become this massive, massive success and cost 264 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:49.680 him a bundle. And I laughed at him. I've never seen a broadcaster 265 00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:56.799 quite that talented or as charismatic and some of the stuff. And I don't 266 00:19:56.839 --> 00:19:59.720 want to make this about her because I wish her well and I always got 267 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:02.039 a lot with her. I didn't know her very well. I'd see her 268 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:03.839 in hair and makeup and stuff, and I, you know, we'd say 269 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:06.160 hello, and we were always very friendly, always had some you know, 270 00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:11.160 funny chats, never had a problem, and I now today wish her well. 271 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:14.359 However, the integrity of what the Daily Wire is saying really matters to 272 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:18.480 me. And we have lots of different different opinions. We have people, 273 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:21.519 you know, like Michael Knowles and should obviously be in prison, and then 274 00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:23.880 we have Ben Shapiro who's fantastic, and you know, it's like really really 275 00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:30.519 a wide spectrum of people. And she would say things like about, I 276 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:33.200 don't know, you know, nine to eleven's kind of hinting that there was 277 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:37.680 nine to eleven was an inside job, or the moon landing was a fake 278 00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:40.200 and all this stuff. And you know, to me whatever, you know 279 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:44.079 that her audience loved it. She's a talented person. Everybody chooses how they 280 00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:48.559 use their own talent. Then it started to get I thought a little dark 281 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:52.519 you know. I mean, she started to say things about the Jews, 282 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:55.599 and she kept coming back to the Jews. And you know, there was 283 00:20:55.640 --> 00:20:59.000 a time when Kanye said I'm going to go Defcon three or whatever you said 284 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:02.799 on Jews, and she backed him up. And now she was her friend, 285 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:04.079 and I thought, all right, she's showing some loyalty in all this. 286 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:08.119 But then it got to be some stuff that you know, she got 287 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:15.119 an argument with Ben Shapiro and online and she said he was all about the 288 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:18.680 money. He can't serve God and money. And then she used this phrase 289 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:22.960 Christ is King, which has become and I believe that, I believe that 290 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:26.319 Christ is King, but it's also become a catch phrase of guys like Nick 291 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:30.839 Fuentes who are open Jew haters and basically feel this is white man's country. 292 00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:33.799 Flentes has said, this is a white man's country and the Jews are an 293 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:37.960 alien race here, the hat us and all this stuff, and so that 294 00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:41.759 phrase, you know, and I'm getting this stuff from good people Christians saying 295 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:45.720 how could Christ the King possibly be? You know, an even phrase? 296 00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:48.720 And you know, Jesus said, you may call me lord lord, but 297 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:52.359 if you don't, you know, you don't serve my father in heaven, 298 00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:55.079 then I don't care whether you folk, Floyd, I won't know you. 299 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:59.160 And so any phrase, of course can be used in a wicked way, 300 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:03.960 and anybody hail victory, Hail victory sick kile right, exactly exactly. So 301 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:11.440 it became uncomfortable for certainly for me, because I want to defend people and 302 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:15.000 I'm never going to attack my colleagues, and I never attacked her. And 303 00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:19.200 finally they parted ways on the basis of the fact that this was hurting the 304 00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:22.519 brand. I think, you know, I was getting to the point and 305 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:25.880 Jeremy talked to everybody and told him why he was doing it, and I 306 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:27.440 said on the air that I was proud of him. I thought he had 307 00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:30.799 you know, obviously, these are very complicated things, their contracts and all 308 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.640 kinds of laws that you have to fulfill. But I thought he did the 309 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:38.319 right thing, and I thought he restored the integrity of what the Daily Wire 310 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:42.200 stands for, because it's not a question of free speech. She's absolutely free 311 00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:47.160 to go and say whatever she wants, but the Daily Wire stands for something 312 00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:49.160 and that's not it. Just like if as I made the comparison on the 313 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:52.440 air where I said, if I suddenly thought, hey, abortion's great, 314 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:56.000 you know, I would have to leave, you know, or keep my 315 00:22:56.039 --> 00:22:57.279 mouth shut. I couldn't go in there because we don't believe that. We 316 00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:03.079 think it's a bad thing, you know. So Drew, may I quote 317 00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:07.000 someone who is a friend of all three of us, the late Christopher Hitchins. 318 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:17.480 Here's the quotation. Anti Semitism. So seldom a good sign. That's 319 00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:21.880 great, it was the best. I repeatedly called it the devil's flagpole. 320 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:23.720 It's like it knows no side, it knows no team, it knows no 321 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:26.559 party. Wherever it shows up, you know that you're dealing with. So 322 00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:33.720 could I just ask you're you're I just do not. I live on the 323 00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:37.240 edge of the Stanford campus and I work in the middle of it Stanford. 324 00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:47.240 These kids are brilliant, and some of by the way, I will stipulate 325 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:52.079 that it is a small proportion of the kids. It's very it's but it's 326 00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:57.559 loud, and it's visible, and it is anti Semitic, and so I 327 00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:03.559 do not understand I of my generation. I can tell you two stories. 328 00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:08.240 My mother's one of my mother's best friends brought her mother, who was an 329 00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:11.960 old lady to our house when I was a little kid, and my mother 330 00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:14.039 said, come over here, I want you to meet her. And I 331 00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:15.799 met her, and then my mother said, take a look at this. 332 00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:21.599 And the old lady showed me numbers on her arm, and my mother said, 333 00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:23.480 I'll explain this later, but I want you to see it. So 334 00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:27.119 that was the kind of thing that was the sort of mindset in the in 335 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:33.200 gentile middle class America when I was growing up. There was something horrible that 336 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:38.559 had happened singular in all of human history. And if we understood one thing, 337 00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:45.039 we understood that doesn't happen again, and somehow it's gone. I don't. 338 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:49.160 I just really it takes. Maybe I'm a fool, maybe I'm naive, 339 00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:53.000 but I'm shocked. What do you make of it? Well, in 340 00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:56.079 some of my earliest writing, I think in my first novel, when I 341 00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:03.000 was like in my twenties, I called our general holiday Jews because this shock 342 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:06.519 of evil, this thing that brought down as far as i'm destroyed Europe. 343 00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:11.720 These wars were the end of the great European culture. Had caused enough shame 344 00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:15.839 in people of goodwill that they started to restrain themselves. You know, they 345 00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:19.000 started to say, well, maybe the anti sentimentism thing isn't as much fun 346 00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:22.079 as we thought it was going to be. And I always knew it would 347 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:26.359 pass. And the reason I truly believe this, the reason I believe it 348 00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:33.200 is pass is because through Jesus Christ, the central ethos of the Jews has 349 00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:38.079 spread through all Christendom, right, I mean, what do they believe to 350 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:44.240 be good to the poor? To you know, act humbly and act justly 351 00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:48.160 and walk humbly with your God and love mercy. Those are things. You 352 00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:52.240 know. Jesus didn't just make that stuff up. He wrote it, and 353 00:25:52.279 --> 00:25:55.680 they passed on to the Jews, and then he inherited it from the Jews 354 00:25:55.759 --> 00:26:00.319 in physical forms, and so as that's I think a lot of times the 355 00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:04.359 people who hate the Jews hate that about themselves. You look at Wagner trying 356 00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:10.680 to establish, you know, a German pagan mythology, trying to go back 357 00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:15.400 before and I think that that's why it keeps coming up, because it keeps 358 00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:19.079 making us take stock of the rights of women, the rights of the poor, 359 00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:22.279 the rights of the humbles, the weakest among us. And who needs 360 00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:25.680 that, you know? I mean, it gets in the way of all 361 00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:30.119 the fun victory and punching people out and conquering places. And I think that 362 00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:37.079 that just spreads spread, and it's not a coincidence that Europe destroyed itself in 363 00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:41.720 this absolute the explosion of jew hatred. I mean, I think that that 364 00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:45.039 was the end of their civilization and at the end of what was then called 365 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:51.599 Christendom because of that reaction to it. And I do not think, you 366 00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:56.440 know, even the idea that the Jews kill Christ, which I still hear 367 00:26:56.519 --> 00:27:02.279 people of goodwill using the Jews represent everybody in the New Testament, you know, 368 00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:04.480 and we sing that him, you know, I I it was who 369 00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:07.640 denied the eye crucify that we sing that to him. That's right, that 370 00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:14.160 is that is what that means. And even that I think is rejecting the 371 00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:18.599 entire gift that we were given through Christ in the name of the Jews. 372 00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:19.440 So they put it on the Jew so nobody has to say, oh, 373 00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:23.240 I don't like Jesus. But really that's I think that's the Jews they're attacking. 374 00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:26.559 You know. It reminds me, reminds me of a wonderful story about 375 00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:30.559 John Wayne. On his deathbed, one of his Jewish friends dropped in and 376 00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:33.200 was teasing him and said, well, we all know you don't like Jews, 377 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:36.440 because Wayne didn't care, and they got his friends that I know you 378 00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:38.319 don't like Jews, and Wayne said, the only Jew I don't want to 379 00:27:38.359 --> 00:27:44.240 meet is the one up there. I think. I think that that's who 380 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:47.880 they're really rejecting, and that's why it will never go away until it all 381 00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:51.880 goes Overay, you know, that's kind of had. I do agree with 382 00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:56.119 you, especially today's Mandy Thursday, Tomorrow is good Friday. So that we 383 00:27:56.119 --> 00:28:00.240 hear the story again. And the more you hear the story, we're times 384 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:02.400 you get the story, the more different parts you play in it, I 385 00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:07.160 think in your head, Like for me, you know, the I did 386 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:11.000 once one year on Palm Sunday. We read it and sort of do we 387 00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:12.720 did the passion of the church I go to, and so we read it 388 00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:17.400 out loud and so people read the parts. And the part I really wanted 389 00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:19.799 was Pilot because it's the best part, you know, it's the best part 390 00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:22.359 of it. And I got Pilot, And so for a long time I've 391 00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:25.160 just thought of, you know, well, that's what I'm that's what I 392 00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:26.960 would be, That's who I would be. I'd be the guy just trying 393 00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:30.599 to figure out a way out of this problem who doesn't really care. But 394 00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:34.759 it's hard not to get chills down your spine when you realize Palm Sunday, 395 00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:38.880 the cloaks on the path and the palms and the we're hey, welcome, 396 00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:44.559 welcome, welcome, and then a few days later crucifying the same people, 397 00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:51.279 And it's hard not to think that's us, right, that's everybody. It's 398 00:28:51.319 --> 00:28:53.759 everybody, religious, religious people, the political people, the people people, 399 00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:57.680 it's everybody, you know, and it's everybody. And there's one or two 400 00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:02.839 guys, I mean, even Peter his like do your stuff? Yeah, 401 00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:06.000 yeah, they flay, they're gone, they're's just history. I was in 402 00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:08.039 Jerusalem last year. You go to this this beautiful church, uh uh, 403 00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:15.079 the commemorate it built on the spot where Saint Peter denied Christ three times. 404 00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:18.880 Be kind of weird, if you know, if you somehow Peter comes back 405 00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:22.240 and he says, you know, I did a lot of other stuff. 406 00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:26.279 This is the one like I did some stuff that church right here, like 407 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:30.440 my worst moment. But in a way that's kind of you know, that's 408 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.119 sort of the story of our faith. Okay, But so before we get 409 00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:36.079 to faith, because I know I want to talk about you know, it's 410 00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:40.200 Holy Week. Do you guys celebrate Holy Week? I don't know what you're 411 00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:44.000 weird doing. No, I'm in I am an Anglican Catholic. I've never 412 00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:48.640 sled. My theology is actually Catholic. But I'm not beholden to the Vatican. 413 00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:51.200 So oh, there you go, okay, and into behead my wife, 414 00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:56.480 which is all. And I'm sure if you are married to you wouldn't 415 00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:00.319 want you to church. Will say, uh uh, just to go back 416 00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:03.440 to Polish for a minute. Do you think it's the larger I mean the 417 00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:07.440 is the is what happened Daily Wire, the Cannas, Daily War. Think 418 00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:11.119 is that a fractal of the conservative movement? A little bit like there are 419 00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:15.839 now there are? Do we need? I mean William F. Buckley famously 420 00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:18.039 you know, I don't know, the word purage is not correct, but 421 00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:29.079 he identified and refocused the conservative movement in the fifties and sixties away from kind 422 00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:37.000 of you know, John Bercheriy stuff and towards you know, free market, 423 00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:48.680 uh freedom, national security, yeah, anti socialism essentially. Do we need 424 00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:51.640 to do we need to do that? I think we're going to have to 425 00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:56.559 deal with a segment of conservatism. It's kind of the Patrick Denin crowd who 426 00:30:56.599 --> 00:31:00.519 feels that this liberal business, liberal in the good sense of the word, 427 00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:06.319 has been a failure. And right now I totally understand that. It's good 428 00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:08.960 Friday. It's this is the moment when everything looks bleakest. And it does 429 00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:14.240 look bleak to me. I mean it's we have lost our way. We're 430 00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:19.680 you know, boarding like nine hundred and sixty thousand babies a year. The 431 00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:25.720 Democrat Party is giving a standing ovation to abortion. The State of the Union, 432 00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:27.759 where you know, I laugh because it's corruption makes me laugh, but 433 00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:30.759 like that's a you know, that's a bad sign for America. And when 434 00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:34.480 you talk about you know, we're butchering children in the name of the name 435 00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:40.599 of changing their sex, which is impossible. And we remember John Adams saying 436 00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:42.519 this is a constitution for moral and religious people, and I think, like, 437 00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:45.000 oh, you know, that's that's not a good thing. And so 438 00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:49.039 I understand why a lot of these young kids, and it's especially Generation Z, 439 00:31:49.279 --> 00:31:53.839 because twenty twenty came along. They looked out their windows, they saw 440 00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:57.839 people looting stores and burning buildings, and they turned on the TV, and 441 00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:00.279 people were saying, well, it's mostly peace, it's mostly these are mostly 442 00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:04.519 peaceful. And they were told that they had to stay in their homes and 443 00:32:04.599 --> 00:32:07.680 let their grandmother die alone. But it was okay to go to a riot 444 00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:10.759 because you know, and I've talked to them. I've talked to these twenty 445 00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:15.000 four to twenty five year old kids. That's their political moment in the same 446 00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:19.079 way for me, like maybe the assassination of Kennedy or you know, the 447 00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:22.880 Nixon was my political moment. That is their political moment. And so they 448 00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:25.519 think these people hate me. These these people don't like me. They don't 449 00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:32.039 like the constitution parenthesis add to that to put in another dimension on exactly the 450 00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:36.200 same point that you're making. I'm conscious of it because I work at a 451 00:32:36.279 --> 00:32:40.640 university. The kids are smarter. The kids now know and we all knew 452 00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:47.720 very quickly that people in their twenties and younger were at essentially zero risk of 453 00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:53.839 COVID, right, and all these universities charged the families full tuition and shut 454 00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:59.720 down. And these kids know they were being lied to worse than that, 455 00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:05.519 they were being robbed. Their parents were being robbed. That's right, all 456 00:33:05.599 --> 00:33:08.440 right, No, none of those people has been punished. None of them 457 00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:12.119 has left lost their reputation, one of them has lost their office. Nothing. 458 00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:15.880 So none of them has so much as apologized as apologize exactly. So 459 00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:19.720 this is this is the moment that they're in and there's thinking, you know, 460 00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:22.519 maybe what we need They call it red Caesar. We need a red 461 00:33:22.599 --> 00:33:29.519 Caesar to come and take over this republic business and re establish this sort of 462 00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:34.920 chain of command from God to the king to the people, and that'll that's 463 00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:37.559 going to bring it back. And they've forgotten the concerns of the founders, 464 00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:40.480 which is that you give people power they think, you know, and you 465 00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:45.759 have to divide the power and set it off against each other. They've forgotten 466 00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:49.960 that they're not They're not. I'm making them a little simplistic. They actually 467 00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:53.559 do have a sort of politics. It's a little more complicated than that. 468 00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:57.200 They want to sort of country, this run like a corporation. But they 469 00:33:57.200 --> 00:34:00.759 want to get rid of this liberalism stuff and this republic stuff. And I 470 00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:07.759 understand that, but that's it's a despair as a self fulfilling prophecy. And 471 00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:10.960 I think if we decide that it's over, it'll be over where I think 472 00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:14.840 there's a fight to be had, and I think it's a fight, you 473 00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:16.599 know, worth worth having. We may lose, that's the way fights are, 474 00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:22.599 right, There's no guarantee that we can get back to our our constitutional 475 00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:27.480 rights. But I think it's still worth having that fight. And yeah, 476 00:34:27.880 --> 00:34:30.079 I I buy that, right. But I also I mean, I'm I 477 00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:32.920 believe despair is a sin. I don't despair. Good Friday. Still we 478 00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:36.000 still know what happens at the end. I mean, last night was the 479 00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:38.840 celebration of Tenebray. I don't know, you're a weird cult, but we 480 00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:43.159 do tennibray in mine, uh, which is kind of line of ray. 481 00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:47.000 Yeah, it's right, that's right, capsule version of the Holy Week call 482 00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:50.320 kind of a in wine. It's super dark at the end, but it's 483 00:34:50.360 --> 00:34:53.519 kind of light at the end because one candles still live. All the great 484 00:34:53.559 --> 00:35:00.119 movements were maybe not great, but like big movements in American history, you 485 00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:07.599 know that only have been a few, right, Abolition, temperance, civil 486 00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:13.280 rights. The's all been essentially religious movements. They started in church. They 487 00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:19.000 started as religious movements, and they were not political movements until much later, 488 00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:22.719 to some success. If you're trying to ban alcohol in this country, which 489 00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:30.239 they did always surprises me, and to some moderate lack of success, depending 490 00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:36.519 on how inevitable you think the Civil War was. But they started from the 491 00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:39.960 idea of persuasion. You go from town to town, you stand on the 492 00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:43.800 back of a pickup truck or a back of something, and you talk to 493 00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:49.239 people and you persuade them. My problem with the contemporary conservative movement that you're 494 00:35:49.239 --> 00:35:52.320 describing is that it seems to be seems to think that we live in some 495 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:54.440 kind of parliamentary system where all you need to do is win by one vote 496 00:35:54.519 --> 00:35:58.760 and you get everything you want, and it's, I mean nice. You 497 00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:00.840 can fantasize about it, cast about it all you want, but that is 498 00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:05.559 not the system we have. And it seems to me that the one smart 499 00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:08.480 thing, not one, but many smart things, among the many smart things 500 00:36:08.519 --> 00:36:15.360 the left has done and done relentlessly since the sixties is never stopped talking and 501 00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:20.800 persuading to the American people. And it's only recently that it's gotten mean and 502 00:36:21.079 --> 00:36:23.079 vicious, and you know it's it's it's kind of revealing its clause. But 503 00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:29.119 mostly the country has moved left relentless, slower or faster, depending on who 504 00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:34.880 the president was what the cultural tides were. Why can't we do that? 505 00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:44.039 Yeah? Why is it always rage and anger? And I mean the buzz 506 00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:47.360 is divisive and still it's divisive, but I mean the division is a very 507 00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:53.199 bad way to convince people. The best example of this is abortion, which 508 00:36:53.239 --> 00:36:58.239 is now more popular than it was when they overturned Roe v. Wade because 509 00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:00.880 these guys are like, you know, you these poor politicians have no guts, 510 00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:04.320 they have no spine, and the people want them to get out and 511 00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.800 say we must ban abortion. Well, you know, Abraham Lincoln said, 512 00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:13.039 public sentiment. You know, you cannot do anything until you have public sentiments. 513 00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:16.599 So convincing people comes before passing laws. And I think that we don't 514 00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:21.719 do it. We want everything on Everything on the right is a crisis. 515 00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:24.400 Everything has to be dealt with right away. We cannot possibly wait. The 516 00:37:24.519 --> 00:37:30.719 left has this spidery patient where they just wait and wait and wait and just 517 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:34.000 push it. And remember Barack Obama saying, oh, you know, marriage 518 00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:37.039 is between a man and a woman. He didn't believe that he was flying. 519 00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:40.280 You know. Then the minute he wins in the Supreme Court, he 520 00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:45.800 lights up the White House with with rainbow lights to tell fifty percent of the 521 00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:50.239 country screw you. This isn't your house, it's my house. That's and 522 00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.639 so you know, he played his he played the long game, and we 523 00:37:53.719 --> 00:38:00.559 never do that. And it is profitable for people who go on the air, 524 00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:06.239 who just talk, to play into that anger and to play into that 525 00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:08.119 urgency's profitable. Yes, it gets the numbers. Yes, yes, that's 526 00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:13.239 what I mean. I've noticed sometimes when I'm talking to conservative donors or conservative 527 00:38:13.239 --> 00:38:15.880 you know, supporters, you'll mention some projects this or that and the other, 528 00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:19.400 and they'll say, hey, that sounds great, you know, be 529 00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:22.840 great. If you get like back in the day when he was on Fox, 530 00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:23.880 Tucker, Well, Tucker, do you think Tucker would cover this? 531 00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:30.440 Or Laura? I'm always like, that's who cares people watching Tucker and Laura 532 00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:34.239 already agree, yeah, that's not who we're going after. And if you 533 00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:37.320 ask, you know, like what, I still find it amazing people say 534 00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:39.639 that, well, you look how popular some of those shows are. You're 535 00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:43.760 telling me the country is not conservative, But well, the country's got three 536 00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:46.079 hundred ffty million people in it, and a whole bunch of them vote now, 537 00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:51.760 and you got to win by more than one vote. If you want 538 00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:52.639 to do anything. I mean, you don't have to win by more than 539 00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:55.639 one vote to actually take office. You could do that, but you're not 540 00:38:55.679 --> 00:39:00.519 going to be able to do nothing. Yeah, there's also this illusion that's 541 00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:05.039 you know, I've been getting attacked on social media. Kansas came after me 542 00:39:05.079 --> 00:39:07.440 and all our followers, and they're calling me names and all this stuff. 543 00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:09.679 They keep saying things like he's over, he's done, And I think, 544 00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:14.519 like, you don't understand, you're not in the real world. This little 545 00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:16.480 place, seven of you talking to each other, and it sounds like a 546 00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:21.199 movement, but it's not, you know, And it's it's that that illusion 547 00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:24.480 is magnified by a press that falls into it. But look at look at 548 00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:27.760 what they do. I to apologize you. I was doing the tweeted. 549 00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:37.039 I know that I do that every week. Yeah, and I appreciate the 550 00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:39.719 postcards as well. I think that's old fashion. But the effect, yeah, 551 00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:44.519 like, I know you, I know you're o G. But but 552 00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:46.440 I mean I think that this is you know, when you look at the 553 00:39:47.199 --> 00:39:50.400 at the left right now, they are afraid. I mean, when you 554 00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:57.599 see the NBC has to fire this rhino, it's kind of mild mannered you 555 00:39:57.639 --> 00:40:01.719 know, d N for former are Republican Party chairman chairwoman. They got a 556 00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:06.239 fire while having Jen Pasaki on their team. You know, that's like, 557 00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:10.039 we can't possibly have a Republican The biggest example is Elon Musk. I mean, 558 00:40:10.039 --> 00:40:13.639 Elon Musk is everybody's hero. He's got an electric car, he's going 559 00:40:13.639 --> 00:40:15.559 to solve the climate crisis, is going to go to Mars. Then he 560 00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:21.239 buys Twitter and lets people like me talk and stop standing. You know, 561 00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:24.679 I gain fifty thousand followers, like in a day after Elon Musk took over, 562 00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:29.960 maybe two days, you know, and suddenly he's being investigated by every 563 00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:34.119 agency in the government. You know, he's there. The attempts to silence 564 00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:38.440 us are insane. And instead of understanding, oh wait, we're actually kind 565 00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:42.679 of on the cusp of winning, which I think is what's happening. Let's 566 00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:45.639 let's play our cards right, Let's do the right thing. Let's convince people, 567 00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:49.280 let us, you know, show people good. We constantly blow it. 568 00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:52.760 There's so much anger. You know. One of the things I sincerely 569 00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:54.960 believe is I sincerely believe we're at the end of something, namely me and 570 00:40:55.000 --> 00:41:01.079 my generation. We've come to the end this, and two things have failed. 571 00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:04.920 One this failed is the Great Society. The Great Society has been an 572 00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:07.800 utter, complete, total failure. It has been bad for black people, 573 00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:09.199 it's been bad for the country, it's been bad for the Constitution. It's 574 00:41:09.199 --> 00:41:12.719 just a complete, utter failure. So now what you have. And they 575 00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:15.199 kept it in line by calling people racist when they opposed it. So now 576 00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:19.400 what you have is they're the racist. They're saying, oh, we'll hire 577 00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:22.039 you because you're black. You know you want to be a surgeon. You 578 00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:23.480 don't know anything about medicine. That's okay, you're black. Well, you 579 00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:27.199 know you can do surgery, you can fly a plane. We don't care 580 00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:30.840 because they're trying to prop up this dead thing. The other thing that has 581 00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:37.280 failed is kind of anti Roosevelt conservatisms, the idea that we're somehow going to 582 00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:40.320 completely be the first, you know, democratic nation on earth to get rid 583 00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:45.679 of our welfare state instead of reforming it and cutting it back. And so 584 00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:50.079 you have Donald Trump, who sounds makes all the noises of a conservative but 585 00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:54.280 isn't conservative at all. He is, I mean, Ben Shapiro keeps saying 586 00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:58.639 he's the most moderate candidate running, which is absolutely true. He's got a 587 00:41:58.639 --> 00:42:00.199 little left the center. He's just you know, but he's got all the 588 00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:04.119 gestures. So it's this empty suit and they love it. I mean, 589 00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:07.000 look what the way they follow him, you know. And I'm not a 590 00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:08.360 hater of Trump. I don't like hate the guy. I thought he did 591 00:42:08.360 --> 00:42:13.480 a pretty good job for three years actually, but I do find him kind 592 00:42:13.480 --> 00:42:15.800 of awful in a lot of ways, and he's a bore and all this 593 00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:19.239 stuff. But they just love him because he sounds, he's got that, 594 00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:22.519 he's talking, he speaks their their anger. I sympathize with their anger. 595 00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:27.880 I know why they're angry. They've been insulted for fifty sixty years. But 596 00:42:28.199 --> 00:42:30.960 still those two things have failed. And it really is time for the right 597 00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:36.360 to start thinking what do we want? What do we want? All this 598 00:42:36.440 --> 00:42:39.599 time we've been talking about freedom. Every possible right wing thing is the liberty 599 00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:43.119 this, and the liberty that, and the egle that and the all American 600 00:42:43.119 --> 00:42:45.960 this is liberty, liberty, American eagle and all those things. And now 601 00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:52.519 they're saying, and we want a king, So I know, excuse me 602 00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:57.719 for a little bit, just for years, right, yeah, clean, 603 00:42:58.920 --> 00:43:04.519 two weeks to stop the right. That's basically what it is exactly. Okay, 604 00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:09.679 So you believe that it's good Friday culturally, politically, and that Easter 605 00:43:10.039 --> 00:43:15.639 Easter Sunday's coming. Yeah. Is that fair? Yes, not just politically 606 00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:20.199 and culturally. I believe it. That's the truth. I believe that. 607 00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:24.159 I believe that this amazing thing happened and it has changed everything. Yeah, 608 00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:30.360 and the evidence is on my side. It's true. A good friend of 609 00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:36.760 mine who converted from he was sort of very secular jew and he converted to 610 00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:42.239 Catholicism and I asked him, I said, why on earth did you do 611 00:43:42.280 --> 00:43:45.679 that? And he looked at me and he said, well, I think 612 00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:50.559 it might be true. For one thing. I think it's really kind of 613 00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:52.360 answer. I don't know. I think it might be true. So I 614 00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:57.199 would not I would not have converted if I didn't think that. I truly 615 00:43:57.199 --> 00:44:00.599 would not have. You know. I mean, obviously these late the layers 616 00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:04.480 of meaning all pan out, so you can get you know, it's okay 617 00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:07.239 for a while to go into one layer of meaning that's beyond the facts and 618 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:12.480 is just explaining other things to you. But ultimately, if it didn't happen, 619 00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:15.440 as Paul says, if it didn't happen, then we're fools to believe 620 00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:20.000 it. But but it kind of clearly, did you know. I mean, 621 00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:22.039 it's kind of I keep saying. Somebody somebody said, why do you 622 00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:24.800 believe this? And I said, well, there's more evidence than for the 623 00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:29.679 assassination of Julius Caesar. I mean, the evidence for you know, it's 624 00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:34.159 not like they made it up. Yes, exactly, And and I think 625 00:44:34.199 --> 00:44:39.159 that it really is interesting the war that I know this sounds like Fox News, 626 00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:44.199 but it's just true that Jesus ed, don't worry. You do not 627 00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:52.559 sound like news anymore. You used to just relax on that one somebody on 628 00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:58.400 the wars from Damascus and fell off. No, I mean the edited Jesus 629 00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:04.960 out of everything. You know, there's a the book Reviews that I read 630 00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:07.280 a biography of Dostoevsky, and it's like when Dusty, if he's talked of 631 00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:09.840 Christ, he was really talking to the Russian people. I don't think so. 632 00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:14.679 I think that's what I've read all his books. You know, that's 633 00:45:14.679 --> 00:45:16.000 what he was talking about. And they and you know, if you watch 634 00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:21.360 like the Johnny Cash biography, there's seven seconds where he goes into a church. 635 00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:24.000 That was the meaning of Cash's life, the last third of his life, 636 00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:27.800 you know, that was and they do it in every film except the 637 00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:31.199 Christian films, which are you know, kind of dopey because everything is happy 638 00:45:31.239 --> 00:45:35.960 and great, which is another thing that the Bible doesn't teach us at all. 639 00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:42.239 But the people the power that this has, that the people who want 640 00:45:42.280 --> 00:45:46.360 power have to silence it is evidence in its favor, you know. And 641 00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:51.280 and it really is remarkable. And I think that people in America have been 642 00:45:51.400 --> 00:45:53.239 spoiled. You know, you have to go back and remember, like, 643 00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:58.719 yeah, the first people who believed in this were like used as human torches 644 00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:01.599 through to lions. Yeah, and like you know, so we get thrown 645 00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:05.079 off of Twitter, you know, or something like that, and it's like, 646 00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:07.480 oh my god, there's a war on Christianity. Like it's going to 647 00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:10.400 get a lot worse. You know. That is that is one of the 648 00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:15.199 weird experience of reading the Book of Acts or anything like that. I say 649 00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:17.039 that sat yeah whatever, I have that say you like google it? Oh 650 00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:23.800 plade, Yeah good, that sounds that sounds un And I understand what they 651 00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:27.400 all later. They all want to go to the desert just to get away 652 00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:32.440 from these people. Uh so you converted. I just I just want to 653 00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:36.760 follow. So you convert, you went all the way to Anglicanism, why 654 00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:37.800 not just keep going? I mean, I know I'm want to speak to 655 00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:42.719 Peter here. You just one more step. I'm just still waiting. Who 656 00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:45.639 moved? Like people who moved, you know, they would go, they'd 657 00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:47.280 move from the East coast or Chicago, l A. And they would stop 658 00:46:47.320 --> 00:46:52.159 and like, but you could see why there was something like them bees right 659 00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:55.039 there? Keep going, just keep what you walk on it right, it's 660 00:46:55.079 --> 00:47:00.320 been almost exactly twenty years was baptized, almost exactly twenty years ago. You 661 00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:02.719 were married, you you got married before your conversion. Oh, I've been 662 00:47:02.719 --> 00:47:07.800 married for fifty years. I mean, so what effect. I've only met 663 00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:12.320 your wife twice, I think, and she's a lovely person. NIC's like 664 00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:15.280 the nice well she would have to be right, she's the nicest person on 665 00:47:15.320 --> 00:47:21.000 earth. Yeah, Christian rob is handling the interrogation here, But at some 666 00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:22.360 point I'd like to know the effect on your wife or what she made of 667 00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:25.760 all this. That is a major change to announce in the family. You 668 00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:30.320 know, three weeks after I was baptized, she turned to me and she 669 00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:35.000 said, you know, you've changed completely and I who had You know, 670 00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:37.079 you don't you know, you don't notice one. It's you, you know, 671 00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:37.719 like, I said, what do you mean? She said? She 672 00:47:37.960 --> 00:47:42.320 said, it's like you're serene. You're like a totally different person. She 673 00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:45.320 said it to me again about three months ago, because it is true. 674 00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:47.760 I've gone through, and you know, you get it gets deeper and deep. 675 00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:51.079 You know this great C. S. Lewis line where you invite the 676 00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:53.039 guy in to do some carpentry and he tears down the house and builds it 677 00:47:53.079 --> 00:47:55.639 back up again, and you know, it has been That has been my 678 00:47:55.719 --> 00:48:00.760 experience. The most exciting part of it is the it's an infinite distance. 679 00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:05.840 You're constantly moving towards the center, toward the light, which is just a 680 00:48:05.960 --> 00:48:07.440 joy. You know, like I should be I'm one hundred and twenty two 681 00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:13.159 years old. I should be, you know, kind of solidifying your affairs. 682 00:48:14.840 --> 00:48:16.800 But instead, you know, you keep moving towards this light and it's 683 00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:22.800 very beautiful. And yeah, I'm like nothing like what I was twenty years 684 00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:25.199 ago. And I don't think it's age. I think it's God and it's 685 00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:30.559 an a It's been an amazing experience and h and just a it's just a 686 00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:32.800 joy, which is kind of like this week. Every now and again, 687 00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:36.480 I had a great week and a lot of wonderful things were happening, you 688 00:48:36.519 --> 00:48:38.079 know, just professionally and personally and all this stuff. And then every now 689 00:48:38.119 --> 00:48:40.719 and again I go on X and they're just be like I hete Drew. 690 00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:46.159 Yeah, my goodness. Yeah, like the mom is not far from your 691 00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:52.679 door. So I did this. I do a little commentary issue in the 692 00:48:52.760 --> 00:48:54.480 public radio in LA called Martini Shot. Now I do it. Oh, 693 00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:59.440 Michael, Yes, you opened with the story about a certain unnamed friend who 694 00:48:59.480 --> 00:49:01.039 I believe was me and your life. Yeah, you were the unnamed friend. 695 00:49:01.079 --> 00:49:05.079 I just I did one recently. I told a story but a friend 696 00:49:05.079 --> 00:49:07.000 of mine had an MBA and he said, but it doesn't you know, 697 00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:10.039 you show himus spreadsheet. He just know, he says. My NBA did 698 00:49:10.039 --> 00:49:15.800 not take. But I talked about a little bit about the scariest word in 699 00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:22.440 Hollywood, which was I think last week before, which is Jesus. It's 700 00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:28.719 just a scary word. And I don't think it's necessarily because people are anti. 701 00:49:28.840 --> 00:49:32.079 Really, I don't really think they have a belief that structure that keeps 702 00:49:32.119 --> 00:49:37.000 them from making money like that they the guy's doing the Chosen or the Sound 703 00:49:37.039 --> 00:49:42.599 of Freedom or the one of them movie mal Cabrini. I don't think that's 704 00:49:42.719 --> 00:49:44.760 what it is. I just think it's there, like this is this is 705 00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:51.960 dangerous. We don't think about it. Everybody's so touchy kind I just avoid 706 00:49:51.960 --> 00:49:54.239 it. Could I trot out of theory for you, two old friends of 707 00:49:54.280 --> 00:50:00.320 mine that has just been it's half formed. I haven't and I haven't said 708 00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:02.679 it out loud to any So this is the first time. But since nobody 709 00:50:02.679 --> 00:50:06.920 listens to this podcast anyway, it's just the three of us. It's like 710 00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:09.559 a safe space exactly. It's a very safe space. Okay. So it 711 00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:16.639 begins with a story years ago when Milton Friedman died. Bill mcgern got in 712 00:50:16.679 --> 00:50:22.079 touch and said his friend Jimmy Lai was coming from Hong Kong to San Francisco 713 00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:25.480 to pay his respects to Rose Friedman. He'll be in San you meet him, 714 00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:30.599 all right, So I, Jimmy Lai and I sat down for breakfast. 715 00:50:30.679 --> 00:50:32.760 Jimmy Lai, who is now in prison, we sat down. We 716 00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:37.119 had a three hour breakfast. It was one of those breakfasts that ended at 717 00:50:37.159 --> 00:50:43.519 lunchtime and he. I was full of questions about China, and this one 718 00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:46.840 I remember in particular. The fallen Gong was in the news followon Gong, 719 00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:52.400 a kind of crazy small sect, and I said, why do the Chinese 720 00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:57.199 authorities care about the falloon Gong? It's best I can tell. It's it's 721 00:50:57.320 --> 00:51:00.519 tiny and it's great. And Jimmy Lai explained, oh no, no, 722 00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:07.960 here, this is what you need to understand. Maoze Doun eliminated Confucianism, 723 00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:15.880 and then Deng Xiaoping eliminated Maoism, and now you have a country of over 724 00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:22.519 one billion people who believe in nothing but material gain, and they know that's 725 00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:30.039 not all there is. Any system of belief could take off in China, 726 00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:35.199 and that's why they're even worried about the fell and Gong. All right, 727 00:51:36.039 --> 00:51:40.119 I now have come to the conclusion. It's not a conclusion, it's tentative. 728 00:51:40.280 --> 00:51:45.239 It may be crazy, and the two of you may say so that 729 00:51:45.400 --> 00:51:51.320 something like that is true in this country. When I first came to the 730 00:51:51.320 --> 00:51:54.000 Hoover Institution, Milton Friedman was still very much with us, and oddly enough, 731 00:51:54.039 --> 00:51:58.519 his office was just down the hall from Lin I stopped. We chatted 732 00:51:58.519 --> 00:52:01.800 from time to time, and he explained to me that he went into economics 733 00:52:01.800 --> 00:52:07.199 because he grew up during the Great Depression, and the overwhelming question of the 734 00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:12.199 day was how do we organize our society to meet our material needs? People 735 00:52:12.280 --> 00:52:15.239 needed jobs and they couldn't find them. There were people who had trouble feeding 736 00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:19.719 their family. Of course, he decided the answer was free markets. But 737 00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:23.159 that was the question of the time when we were kids and in college. 738 00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:29.480 I remember long bull sessions in the dorm. The Cold War actually did matter 739 00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:34.960 to us, Vietnam, Matt. So how do we establish peace? How 740 00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:43.159 do we win in this death grip struggle with communism? Kids today have grown 741 00:52:43.239 --> 00:52:47.599 up in a period of immense prosperity. That's not their question, and a 742 00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:53.000 period of relative peace, that's not their question. Their question is what does 743 00:52:53.039 --> 00:53:00.760 it all mean? And the left understands that, I think instinct. That's 744 00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:04.679 why Jesus is so scary. I because totally agree with this. I totally 745 00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:07.679 agree. Is that right? Yes, the left totally gets it. That's 746 00:53:07.159 --> 00:53:12.400 they speak morally. They address issues from a moral standpoint. We have had 747 00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:19.199 this stupid thing about you know. They transformed Reaganism into pure capitalism, you 748 00:53:19.239 --> 00:53:23.280 know, and neighbor, and it was never that. And and capitalism prostitution 749 00:53:23.400 --> 00:53:29.679 is capitalism selling fentanyls. Capitalism obviously, it rests on top of a set 750 00:53:29.960 --> 00:53:35.599 of values. And people are terribly lost. We have this. I wrote 751 00:53:35.599 --> 00:53:37.679 about this. I have a sub stack with my son Spencer called The New 752 00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:42.400 Jerusalem where we discussed faith. That's all we talk about. He's actually one 753 00:53:42.440 --> 00:53:45.440 of the best exegutes I know, he's a brilliant guy. And I was 754 00:53:45.480 --> 00:53:49.920 saying, you know, there's this I can't even remember the word for it. 755 00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:57.840 It's this wonderful word that I just discovered called ultra crepidarianism, which is 756 00:53:58.280 --> 00:54:01.719 people, which is people who think that because they're an expert in one thing, 757 00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:06.599 they're an expert in another. And we have these years now of scientists 758 00:54:06.760 --> 00:54:08.920 saying, well, there is no God, any think like, what do 759 00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:12.599 you know about you know, Hey, you're an astrophysicist. I respect that, 760 00:54:12.679 --> 00:54:15.800 but you don't know anything about this. You know, and you read 761 00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:17.679 them, you read if you sit and read Richard Dawkins, a guy actually 762 00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:21.639 like in respect us in terms of what he's trying to do with science, 763 00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:24.199 you didn't know anything about theology, doesn't he doesn't know what he's talking about, 764 00:54:24.239 --> 00:54:28.519 you know. And and Stephen Pinker is another one. Stephen Pinker has 765 00:54:28.599 --> 00:54:30.639 this long thing in one of his dope His books are ridiculous, but he 766 00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:35.400 has where he talks about the ghost in the machine. There's no ghost in 767 00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:37.199 the machine. I thought nobody's believed. That's sin State cart like, that's 768 00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:42.159 right, that's right, And they didn't believe it before tanke Art, you 769 00:54:39.719 --> 00:54:46.840 know. And so you know that we've had this long idea that the cool 770 00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:53.039 kids, the smart kids don't believe, and throughout history the opposite has been 771 00:54:53.079 --> 00:54:59.480 the case, the dopes didn't believe. And I believe that remains true today. 772 00:54:59.559 --> 00:55:02.960 And I've been saying for a long time, probably a decade. I've 773 00:55:02.960 --> 00:55:07.599 been saying that there is going to be a rebirth, and it's going to 774 00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:10.719 come from the top, because what we need are some of the people who 775 00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:15.599 look around at the at their intellectual accomplishments and say, you know what, 776 00:55:15.800 --> 00:55:21.760 none of this holds up if we don't start with faith. You know, 777 00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:24.760 I remember reading this has to come from the top, Yes, the intellectual 778 00:55:24.800 --> 00:55:30.199 top let us definitely. Yeah, no, I mean, but but you 779 00:55:30.239 --> 00:55:34.000 know, I think that's really true. We used to have this thing called 780 00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:37.639 the Great Conversation, which was the you know, Aristotle talking to Plato, 781 00:55:37.719 --> 00:55:40.800 talking to Shakespeare talking to aquinas you know, like across time and people. 782 00:55:40.800 --> 00:55:45.760 And I remember reading a book by a guy from Yale whose name escapes me, 783 00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:49.199 but he said, you know, this isn't essentially a secular enterprise, 784 00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:53.840 because once you have a religion, then a conversation stops. And I thought, 785 00:55:53.840 --> 00:56:01.880 that's the very that would be Yale. It sounds and recently, and 786 00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:06.159 I have to track this down. I believe he actually recanted and said, 787 00:56:06.159 --> 00:56:07.320 no, that's not right, because I thought, like, what, you 788 00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:10.760 know, you make your mind up when you see that the earth is not 789 00:56:10.920 --> 00:56:15.280 flat, then you can't believe the earth is plat anymore. But there's still 790 00:56:15.360 --> 00:56:17.719 millions of things to discover, and many of the great questions remain open. 791 00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:22.079 And you know, one of the things that is that I find very distressing 792 00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:28.159 about the Christian community, or at least a segment of it, is it's 793 00:56:28.239 --> 00:56:32.679 certainties about certain things. You know, the Bible is words words when you 794 00:56:32.719 --> 00:56:38.280 read them, or reading is an interpretive action. There are things to discuss, 795 00:56:38.960 --> 00:56:44.119 things to have arguments about. I believe that God has fractured the Church 796 00:56:44.239 --> 00:56:46.639 to make us understand that a lot of these things that seem in conflict will 797 00:56:46.679 --> 00:56:52.840 actually ultimately come together and be united. And yet I have these people. 798 00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:57.840 I mean, when I was talking about this situation as Daily Wire last week, 799 00:56:58.039 --> 00:57:01.000 I was talking about my belief that I'm going to talk about again tomorrow 800 00:57:01.039 --> 00:57:07.400 on my show that we don't know really who God is going to welcome into 801 00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:09.119 the kingdom. And sometimes the people that he welcomes into the kingdom. In 802 00:57:09.199 --> 00:57:13.960 the Bible things he says are people who didn't know that they were serving it. 803 00:57:14.440 --> 00:57:15.360 You know. He says, you fed, you fed me, and 804 00:57:15.400 --> 00:57:20.480 you gave me drink, and they say, huh, we didn't We didn't 805 00:57:20.559 --> 00:57:24.440 know we were doing that, you know. And and and always by the 806 00:57:24.440 --> 00:57:28.320 way, yes, yes, And all week long there's been this fury. 807 00:57:28.480 --> 00:57:30.639 No, you must say christis king, you must say Jesus Lord. And 808 00:57:31.000 --> 00:57:34.920 he says, in the Bible, many who call me lord lord are not 809 00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:38.000 going to be And also he also says, you don't have to make a 810 00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:42.440 big deal about it. Yeah, yeah, that that too, you know. 811 00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:45.599 And you know, he said the one that always gets me is he 812 00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:49.280 says, Samaritans, you worship what you do not know and then people say, 813 00:57:49.760 --> 00:57:52.960 what should we be, Like, We'll be like the Samaritan because it's 814 00:57:52.960 --> 00:57:55.119 the funny stuff in there. Yeah, there's some funny stuff in there, 815 00:57:55.199 --> 00:57:59.960 right, and this only the two of you, only the two of you. 816 00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:04.559 Come on, there's something comic material here. There's some great material in 817 00:58:04.599 --> 00:58:07.559 there, some great bial got a crack up. He's like, well, 818 00:58:07.880 --> 00:58:14.920 there's that great moment where U when he when he cures blind man spitting and 819 00:58:15.079 --> 00:58:17.599 mud and he gets in trouble like the you know, the local you know, 820 00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:22.960 bureaucratic rabbit says, how dare you cure somebody's blindness on the Sabbath? 821 00:58:22.039 --> 00:58:25.320 That was his right, Like you think you're gonna cure blindness? Yeah, 822 00:58:25.360 --> 00:58:28.760 I don't know. We could break we can bend the rule today. But 823 00:58:28.840 --> 00:58:31.960 it's just this is pretty funny stuf. Right, Even Palm Sunday's got this 824 00:58:32.039 --> 00:58:37.320 great moment. It's incredible scene. Right, He's coming in and on a 825 00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:42.239 donkey and people are putting other cloaks in their palm fronds, and we celebrate 826 00:58:42.280 --> 00:58:45.840 it, you know, two thousand plus years later incredible and marches into the 827 00:58:45.880 --> 00:58:50.480 city and they takes a look around the temple and says, well, it's 828 00:58:50.480 --> 00:58:53.960 getting late and they go home. They leave. You can't read that and 829 00:58:54.079 --> 00:58:57.800 not do what Wait a minute, Like that was a major drum roll, 830 00:58:57.840 --> 00:59:00.599 because yeah, they're still here, Okay, let's go home late. I 831 00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:02.639 think because the hour was late. I think like, like, what took 832 00:59:02.719 --> 00:59:08.079 us a little longer to get here? It's pretty funny. Hey, So 833 00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:13.039 I so, I uh, I want to a book to somebody who said, 834 00:59:13.079 --> 00:59:15.360 like, well, you know, here's why I believe that this is 835 00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:20.639 true because a lot of it doesn't make any sense, and if we were 836 00:59:20.639 --> 00:59:25.000 making it up, we would totally agree to stand off the edges, right, 837 00:59:25.039 --> 00:59:28.079 I mean a story, you make up a story, it's like it's 838 00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:30.840 got to be integrated. So the second thing i'd ask you, Drew, 839 00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:36.000 because I know we're both you know, writers in the in the entertainment business. 840 00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:42.760 When you're not writing ex. Podcast, Yeah, when you're not writing 841 00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:49.880 explicitly about face, how is it? How does it fit? M hm? 842 00:59:50.400 --> 00:59:52.559 You know when I when I realized that I had become a Christian, 843 00:59:52.599 --> 00:59:55.760 which was an absolute shock to me. It was actually like a sort of 844 00:59:55.760 --> 01:00:00.199 a bolt, you know, one of my great fears. Took me five 845 01:00:00.199 --> 01:00:02.599 months to admit that it was true. I mean, I knew it because 846 01:00:02.599 --> 01:00:06.079 it came into my head like bang, and then I thought, you know, 847 01:00:06.639 --> 01:00:13.599 I must have misheard. I must Yeah. So one of my greatest 848 01:00:13.599 --> 01:00:19.079 fears was that I was going to become one of these circular yellow smile smiley 849 01:00:19.119 --> 01:00:22.079 faces like some of these Christians that I know who, and instead of writing 850 01:00:22.119 --> 01:00:25.320 about hookers and gangsters, which is my milieu, you know, instead of 851 01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:29.360 writing about tough guys mystery stories, I was going to end up writing about 852 01:00:29.360 --> 01:00:31.280 like a little girl who lost her bunny. But Jesus brought it back again 853 01:00:31.320 --> 01:00:35.719 and everything's great, you know. And one of the things that is really 854 01:00:35.760 --> 01:00:38.800 interesting is that, in a lot of ways, as I've grown more joyful 855 01:00:38.960 --> 01:00:44.119 within and I that's not happy, it's just vital and daffing gusto and all 856 01:00:44.119 --> 01:00:47.239 that stuff. As I've grown more joyful within, my perspective has grown darker. 857 01:00:47.559 --> 01:00:52.840 I now see, you know what they meant when they were talking about 858 01:00:52.039 --> 01:00:54.400 the fall of man. You know, I look around and I think, 859 01:00:54.480 --> 01:00:58.440 oh, yeah, you know, like you're talking about being shocked by the 860 01:00:58.480 --> 01:01:01.880 anti Semitism now. And then you know, I just wrote this little piece 861 01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:05.199 about gone with the Wind for our sub stack, and I said, you 862 01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:09.079 know, it really is awful. The way they depict the slaves is happy 863 01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:13.400 and well treated, and you know, the Leslie Howard one says, oh, 864 01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:17.400 we treated them great, you know. But but even with that awfulness, 865 01:01:17.800 --> 01:01:21.360 it gives you the feeling of what it was like to lose your civilization. 866 01:01:21.719 --> 01:01:23.800 Because it's awful that we're killing a million babies a year. But we 867 01:01:23.800 --> 01:01:27.320 don't sit around and think, oh, yeah, take our civilization. If 868 01:01:27.320 --> 01:01:29.679 they took it away, we miss it. We miss America. There's many 869 01:01:29.719 --> 01:01:34.400 beautiful things about it. And so suddenly the evil that we all do and 870 01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:37.119 that we all live with, and that we're all kind of shrug off in 871 01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:40.119 some ways even though it bothers us. Somehow, I have found that it 872 01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:45.199 rises up and you sort of see the sulfur of smoke coming out. But 873 01:01:45.239 --> 01:01:49.280 at the same time, you know that everything is somehow all right. You 874 01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:52.920 know, it's you feel yourself moving into Flannery O'Connor territory. You know, 875 01:01:53.280 --> 01:02:01.039 I understand why you say that. I find that I find that my view 876 01:02:01.039 --> 01:02:05.800 of the in some way you're more straightforward, I think, is that right? 877 01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:07.559 Yeah? Yeah, I mean, and she's dealing with a different Milia 878 01:02:07.639 --> 01:02:10.920 I'm kind of dealing with this. I love this kind of stories I write, 879 01:02:10.960 --> 01:02:15.639 and I'm writing now this series, which I've never done before, never 880 01:02:15.679 --> 01:02:17.480 happened before, because I never found a character that I wanted to continue for 881 01:02:17.559 --> 01:02:21.880 more than a couple of books. And I'm writing this series about a guy 882 01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:24.320 and he's not a believer, and he's walking through the world slowly realizing that 883 01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:28.599 everything he does believe in is dust. That nothing, Matt you know, 884 01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:32.000 that that he thought mattered matters. And that's kind of the way that is 885 01:02:32.039 --> 01:02:36.960 working. But the one thing that it did is it freed me from this 886 01:02:37.159 --> 01:02:44.679 constant circular question of how can you know anything? Because ultimately they're things that 887 01:02:44.719 --> 01:02:46.920 you actually know. You know. There was a moment when I wrote the 888 01:02:46.960 --> 01:02:50.559 novel you mentioned the novel True Crime. There's a moment I think it's on 889 01:02:50.599 --> 01:02:53.519 the front first page where he says, you know, the Chinese philosopher says, 890 01:02:53.880 --> 01:02:57.199 how do you know? He's talking about guy in death Row, and 891 01:02:57.239 --> 01:03:00.920 he says, the Chinese philosopher says, how do you know your or whether 892 01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:05.000 you're a man dreaming you're a butterfly, or you're a butterfly dreaming you're a 893 01:03:05.039 --> 01:03:08.039 man, and the narrator says, he you know, you know, yeah, 894 01:03:09.320 --> 01:03:14.679 you actually now and that ended postmodernism for me. That that moment is 895 01:03:15.039 --> 01:03:19.039 the moment when postmodernism died for me, you know. And I think that 896 01:03:19.039 --> 01:03:21.679 that has just made me. If I may say so, I think my 897 01:03:21.719 --> 01:03:22.960 work has gone. I am, like I said, I'm one hundred. 898 01:03:22.960 --> 01:03:27.239 I think I'm one hundred and fifty seven. I may understand it before between 899 01:03:27.239 --> 01:03:29.639 the best work of my life. There's no question in my mind that I'm 900 01:03:29.639 --> 01:03:32.079 writing the best stuff of my life. I just finished a new nonfiction book, 901 01:03:32.119 --> 01:03:35.760 the first draft, last twenty five pages of that. I just thought, 902 01:03:35.800 --> 01:03:37.719 you know what, you might want to just shovel off right now. 903 01:03:38.519 --> 01:03:43.440 I'm not sure you know you're going to top that, you know it. 904 01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:46.360 It has really deepened my perspective, darkened it to some degree, but also 905 01:03:46.400 --> 01:03:50.800 infused it with joy. It's an amazing experience. That's you know, I 906 01:03:51.559 --> 01:03:53.559 recommend it to anybody, you know, I think like, if only for 907 01:03:53.599 --> 01:03:58.199 the rewards, you know, the rewards are amazing. You do have to 908 01:03:58.199 --> 01:04:01.559 get played. But that's as I've made not so much anymore. Yeah, 909 01:04:01.559 --> 01:04:08.199 that's right for now. Yeah, this week, Hey Drew, Happy Eastern 910 01:04:08.599 --> 01:04:11.199 Happy Easter to you guys. It's really great to see you. It's too 911 01:04:11.239 --> 01:04:13.639 it's too long. You know, I don't live far away from you, 912 01:04:13.760 --> 01:04:17.280 Rob, you know where do you live now? I live in right across 913 01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:23.079 from DC and right across the river from DC. Why why did you say 914 01:04:23.159 --> 01:04:28.000 that? Because my work is in Nashville. My grandchildren are in New York. 915 01:04:28.280 --> 01:04:31.119 Okay, yeah, yeah, stop there, grandchildren. I get I 916 01:04:31.119 --> 01:04:34.400 don't have grandchildren yet, but they may come, and I sort of I 917 01:04:34.480 --> 01:04:38.760 sort of understand that. One. Yes, grandchildren in the Sistine Chapel are 918 01:04:38.800 --> 01:04:41.280 the only two things I've ever found are as good as people say. They 919 01:04:41.280 --> 01:04:47.920 are as much fun. And it's crowded, that is noisy, right, 920 01:04:49.320 --> 01:04:54.840 not the grandchildren. Thank you, right, Happy Easter, See sooner, 921 01:04:54.880 --> 01:04:57.119 hope. It's great to see it. Thanks a lot of guys, Thank 922 01:04:57.119 --> 01:05:00.960 you. Take care. I think I am. I I think I've known 923 01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:08.320 him. I mean maybe twenty years, maybe twenty years. You've known him. 924 01:05:08.840 --> 01:05:11.960 You've known him then since before he became a Christian. When you knew 925 01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:14.199 him, it was show business. That was the Yeah, he was a 926 01:05:14.760 --> 01:05:17.840 scream. Was also before he was it before he was conservative, and before 927 01:05:17.880 --> 01:05:20.440 you were before you were out of the closet as a conservative. No, 928 01:05:20.440 --> 01:05:24.559 no, you were. You've been ready for Nashville for years. Written by 929 01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:28.719 Delia Owens, A Girl on the Trade by which was hold on for some 930 01:05:28.800 --> 01:05:33.159 reason, my alexis going off. Alexa stopped talking. I don't know why 931 01:05:33.159 --> 01:05:38.480 she she kicked it because it was listing books by Drew Alex, you say, 932 01:05:38.519 --> 01:05:41.000 Andrew Craven. Oh that's right. Wow, that's crazy. Okay, 933 01:05:41.360 --> 01:05:44.159 that's funny. Yeah, they definitely stopped talking. I want to sell more 934 01:05:44.199 --> 01:05:45.559 of his books. Yeah. No, I think I met him, and 935 01:05:45.320 --> 01:05:48.559 I think I knew his work, and I think I met him, and 936 01:05:48.599 --> 01:05:55.039 then I saw him at a Friends of ABE meeting, which we used to 937 01:05:55.039 --> 01:06:00.960 have a big giant meetings or gatherings in southern California and Hollywood right for you 938 01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:03.960 know, the center right really and at that point was the center right and 939 01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:06.679 there he was. I was like, wait a minute, Andrew, Andrew 940 01:06:06.679 --> 01:06:11.039 Claven's here, said yeah, like, what are you doing here? You're 941 01:06:11.039 --> 01:06:15.599 in big trouble but wonderful right, wonderful, wonderful writer, and we're thrilled 942 01:06:15.599 --> 01:06:18.519 to have him, and we're glad he's here. That's sort of remind me 943 01:06:18.559 --> 01:06:23.480 I saw excuse me, but go ahead. C. S. Lewis wrote 944 01:06:23.519 --> 01:06:30.119 someplace that the beginning of every friendship is always the same, and it always 945 01:06:30.159 --> 01:06:34.840 arises from two words, you too. That's kind of true. That's kind 946 01:06:34.840 --> 01:06:40.039 of true. And since that, of course, every time we get together, 947 01:06:40.360 --> 01:06:43.880 it's so we usually insult each other and then disagree on certain things and 948 01:06:43.920 --> 01:06:47.719 then you know, have a couple of drinks and it's fine. So you 949 01:06:47.760 --> 01:06:53.440 have big Easter plans, Peter, Actually we have very small Easter plans. 950 01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:58.840 We've been through holidays, a very eventful, tumultuous holidays with all the kids 951 01:06:58.880 --> 01:07:05.119 coming home, and our oldest got engaged three weeks ago and and everybody is 952 01:07:05.199 --> 01:07:09.519 gone and we will be on our own for Easter. So we do now 953 01:07:09.559 --> 01:07:12.840 have big plans. We have quite small plans. Big holiday we'll enjoy. 954 01:07:12.880 --> 01:07:15.880 We'll go to a restaurant and have a nice meal after Mass, and that 955 01:07:15.920 --> 01:07:16.840 will be our Easter. What about you, that's a pretty good Easter. 956 01:07:17.000 --> 01:07:20.559 Well, I'm gonna have some people in I think probably, oh really make 957 01:07:20.639 --> 01:07:26.679 up a big paschal lamb and uh, you just got back from so I'm 958 01:07:26.679 --> 01:07:29.199 gonna do, you know, be a big It'll be moye a Moroccan lamb, 959 01:07:29.199 --> 01:07:33.159 but we'll have be have you know, Middle Eastern Maghrebian flavors to it. 960 01:07:33.159 --> 01:07:34.840 I always like to do that. I was like to I'd like to 961 01:07:34.880 --> 01:07:40.159 remind people and on Easter that it's not about ham, it's about lamb. 962 01:07:41.280 --> 01:07:45.639 Nicely yes, yes, nicely done. Uh And I guess next week we're 963 01:07:45.679 --> 01:07:47.519 going to be joined again. And I hope James comes back. I'm sure 964 01:07:47.519 --> 01:07:51.039 he's going to come back, but I'm but we're doing a day early, 965 01:07:51.079 --> 01:07:55.800 so we had a hard time scheduling, but he missed a good one before 966 01:07:55.800 --> 01:07:58.360 we go. I should tell you this podcast was brought to you by the 967 01:07:58.480 --> 01:08:01.719 Ricochet Audio Network, so could you could support them and us by signing up 968 01:08:01.719 --> 01:08:04.280 at ricochet dot com. Please do and be and we'd love to have you 969 01:08:04.320 --> 01:08:06.920 join as a member. If you could take a minute and leave a five 970 01:08:06.960 --> 01:08:10.559 star review on Apple Podcasts. I know everybody asks you to do that, 971 01:08:10.639 --> 01:08:15.320 but the truth is it really does move us up in an algorithm and allows 972 01:08:15.360 --> 01:08:18.239 new listeners to discover us, and that helps keep this show going. And 973 01:08:18.319 --> 01:08:26.560 once again, ricochet dot com that's the place to be for conversation and friendship 974 01:08:26.680 --> 01:08:30.479 and deep conversations like the one we just had, and super light ones like 975 01:08:30.520 --> 01:08:34.600 the ones we have. Also here on the Ricksday Podcast, I'm Peter. 976 01:08:34.800 --> 01:08:40.239 See you next week. Next week, Happy Easter, everybody, Cappy Easter. 977 01:08:43.000 --> 01:08:46.279 Ricochet join the conversation.