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You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio
Network, the best in paranormal talk radio

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in the UK and around the world. Paranormal Dimensions is fortnightly on Mondays on

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the Paranormal UK Radio Network. Good
Day to night. Today I seek King

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Arthur's Court. You have not much
farther to travel. You can see the

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spires and towers of Kemilot and my
journey is almost over. Good detail.

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This is Sir Patrick Moore and you're
listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network.

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The UK is biggest paranormal radio network
and this is Paranormal Dimensions with David.

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Hello, and welcome to show number
one hundred and seventy or Paranormal Dimensions on

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David Young. We were expecting you. Your coming was predicted by Marlin the

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Magician. Oh really, and you're
working author? I presume, so did

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you exist? I wonder? Hopefully
on this show we shall find out.

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Today's guest is esteemed historian Mark Polly, who is highly regarded as an expert

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on King Arthur. And he just
says a new book out which he should

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be telling us about. So I'm
looking forward to this fun. Okay,

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let's always do anyway, This should
be quite fascinating hearing about King Arthur and

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Merlin and the supposed wizardry that he
got up to. Someone very pleased to

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welcome Mark Polly to the show.
Hello, Mark, welcome to the show.

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Hello, Hello, nice to see
you. Or would you prefer some

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Mark or the of the round table. No, No, I'm not,

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I'm not. I'm not a a
nightly disposition. Well I am of a

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nightly disposition actually, but I'm more
I'm more rocking the Merlin. Look for

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this one. I have to say
that because because your latest book, King

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Arthur, it wasn't King Arthur.
And what's what's total polychronicon. That's that's

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the that's the word. That's a
big word. Yeah, it always feels

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piggle. You want to see the
Americans try to say that. Honestly,

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they all deferred to me. It's
poly chronicon of Merlin, Joseph and Arthur.

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So it's moving, you know,
the magician, it's Joseph of Arimathea,

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which is the Grail, and of
course it's Arthur, who was never

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a king. But you're going to
ask me about that. Yeah, chronical,

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so you dug that one up.
Well, there's two reasons for it,

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both very good reasons. First one
is nobody else has used it on

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a King Arthur book. And you've
got to bear in mind that's about three

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hundred books on the subject of Arthur
worldwide that come out every year. So

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to hit on something that nobody else
has used is nion impossible. And the

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last Polychronicon, which is a chronological
history, was written by a monk in

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Chester in the thirteen hundreds, about
thirteen twenty, and he included a massive

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section on King Arthur in chronological order. So way way back eight hundred years

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ago, there was this guy in
Chester doing it, so heiram, I

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thought, I'll have ago. So
Polychronicon chronological History. It's written like a

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diary. So I've never heard the
world before. English was my top subjects

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at school. There's always not very
high, but it was my top subjects.

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But I never heard the world before. So we're learning all the time

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what with well, you know,
it's a you know, it's a big

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word when it's not in the spell
checker on your computer. Yeah, there

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you go. So at least I
can I could use that excuses all schill

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checker. But like I say,
chronological history, polychronic on. That's all

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it is, chron chronological history.
Anyway, Again, it's quite too welcome

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into the show. Thank you.
I've been looking forward to this one because

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one of my earliest memories and when
we first got a TV was actually so

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Lance a lot. I don't if
you remember that, the old TV series.

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Oh now we're going way back,
yea TV series And yeah, it's

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set up like a Magic of King
Arthur and the Arts of the Brown Table.

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Now they kind of set that kind
of in the Middle Ages around about

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fifteen hundreds, but I think King
Arthur goes back way foot back than that.

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Than Yes, you've got you've got
two if you like areas, main

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areas where people focus on Arthur,
and most people go for the easy one,

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and that's the medieval ones. You've
got, you know, Jeffrey of

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Monmouth stay in the eleven hundreds,
rattles out this amazing history of Arthur and

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the King of the Britons and all
that, and then you've got the sort

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of you know, the Excalibur Martin
Borman movie type you know thing that then

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reels out from that where it's all
knights in shining armor and rescuing maidens from

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dragons and all that sort of stuff. That's kind of version number one,

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and that's what most people default too. But there is a second version,

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which is, you know, way
way back end of the Roman Era,

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either side of five hundred AD,
and that's more or less what you know

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that movie about King Arthur that was
supposed to be the true movie. I

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think it was one of the last
big Arthur movies to come out, the

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one with Clive Owen and Kiera Knightley
and all that. That movie that's set

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at the end of the Roman Era, at the start of the Saxon invasions.

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That's where the real Arthur is.
He sat there and that's the author

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that I try and focus on,
concentrate on in the book. There are

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clues to him in the medieval material, because you know, you couldn't tell

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a story about somebody and just lie
about it in medieval times, or they

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did think it was fake, they
wouldn't take you seriously, especially not if

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you're writing for royalty. So there
are clues in there, but you've really

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got to get a grips with that
original material and approach as an archaeologist would

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to sort out the wood from the
trees, you know, because there's so

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much nonsense in it's like artistic license
to all kinds, all kinds. But

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there are links, I mean there
are links which will will undoubtedly cover.

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Yeah, there was a there was
a later kick Arthur film and it was

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made three or four years ago.
Oh that's that, Yeah, that's the

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one that looks like Assassin's Creed.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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I thought it was actually quite good. What's all of it? Actually?

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But very yeah yeah, very sort
of modern, very yeah, very modern

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in its in its approach. Yeah. But the car Vo world did you

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enjoy? Actually, I think they
started to sort of trying to make them

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a bit more gruesome as well that
they used to in the old days.

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Yeah, that's a bit more kick
ass as because I don't think I had

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a lot of lifting those days,
to be honest. It would have been

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really tough, I mean, anything
resembling civilization. The Romans kind of took

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that away, and the Saxons were
you know, they were not for really

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doing things the way the Romans did. They had a different approach. So

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basically Britain went back to being tribal. You know, it was ruined by

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people that controlled zones, and essentially
that's what Arthur was. He controlled the

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northern zone as a battle leader.
You know, he's given in the original,

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he's given us dux belorum, which
just is it's duke of battles.

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That's what it translates as. So
he's a warrior. He's not a king

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at all. I mean, the
king might have been Melbourne Gwynhead of Wales

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because he was the king at that
time and kings. Again, Wales was

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split into three, so he had
three different kings. So the King of

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North Wales was the one that was
looking after Arthur as his battle chieftain.

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So that was the setup then.
But it's Celtic tribal, you know,

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it's not medieval. Now, I
guess because this is a paranormal show.

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Yeah, I guess we'll to go
to the paranormal part of things with which

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concerned Merlin the Magician. Now,
yes, as far as you know,

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did he exist and did he have
these magical powers? And was he a

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real wizard? It depends a definition
of a real wizard. Wow, yes,

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he did really exist. But you've
got to approach it knowing that Merlin

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is a title. So during the
period we're looking at from about four hundred

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AD to six hundred AD. In
that period in Wales, there was about

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six of them, different ones.
Some of them are extremely well known,

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some of them less well known.
So the most the most well known here

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usually the early ones. So you've
got people like Merlin Taliessin. He's the

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first one Taliessin with the title Merlin. So he's a poet, obviously poet

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and a barred, incredibly famous.
The next one's Merlin Ambrosius. Ambrosius is

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a sort of religious educated battle leader, and he's the brother of Ruther Pendragon.

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So you're willing too Arthur there,
But but Arthur's suppose you call him

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uncle, is also one of the
Merlin's. The next one's Merlin the logan

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which translates his little friend or dear
friend. Now he is the Merlin that

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everybody associates with, Arthur because he's
the guy who lives over one hundred he's

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probably about one hundred and two hundred
and three when he dies, and he

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is a full on, full blown, amazing sort of druid I you know,

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scientist, astrologer, astronomer, you
know, he's all of that.

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But the thing is he dies halfway
through. He sees Arthur's victory at the

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Battle of Baden and the next Mulin
to take over, which is Mulin will

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It. That's Merlin the Mad.
He doesn't live as long. He only

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lives to about being about eighty,
but he's through, if you like.

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He's the period that sees the defeat
of Arthur, and then he sees civil

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war breaking out amongst the Britains,
so he basically goes mad, retreats off

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to his astronomical He's got like a
circle like what do they call it,

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Oh, like one of these places
where you look at the stars. I

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can't think of the exact world planetarium
thing. Yeah, a bit like that

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he's got. He's got this set
up in the woods that he can go

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to anyway. After him, there's
a guy called Merlin Totugan who is then

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a poet, and he's up there
in Cumbria, basically in the same area

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as Merlin will It, And then
Mullin Totugan I think, spawns another Merlin

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who is a bit more obscure,
and he's over in Northern Ireland. And

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then the title gets obliterated by the
Anglo Saxons, so that title that office,

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if you like, ends at the
end, well around about six hundred.

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It ends round about then. So
I've got at least six of them,

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and they would most definitely have come
over as being you know, I

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mean the Merlin that was there at
the beginning of Arthurs writing Merlin the logan,

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you can imagine him stood on top
of a mountain going right, that's

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it, I'm switching the sun off. You know, the whole place goes

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black. You know, well,
it's an eclipse, and he knows it's

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coming, but you know, it's
still pretty amazing. And the Druids we

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I mean, they've been around at
this point, they've been around over three

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thousand years, so he really is
literally standing on the shoulders of giants.

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All the archaeo technology and all the
stuff that we find in the past,

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and all the U parts and all
the stuff that gets featured on programs like

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Ancient Aliens and all that, a
lot of that was known to the Druids.

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You know, they were aware of
that. They were Greek philosophers,

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they were Pythagoreans. They knew that
side of it, which the book covers.

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I mean, that's why I start
with Merlin, because he is the

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oldest path, if you like,
the oldest tradition, and he would certainly

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have looked magical. You know,
he would have known about curing with herbs

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and healing, and I do very
strongly suspect that there would have been that

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spiritual side of it, very much
a kind of an ancestor's way, you

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know, reaching beyond what you see
into the unknown. I think there's a

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huge, hefty wedge of that because
you would have got to study Celtic beliefs

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to know that they had this very
strong idea that you came from somewhere and

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when you died, you went off
to somewhere. So they had this strong

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idea of the being another life and
afterlife, another dimension that you went to

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when you died. Only where we
point at heaven up in the sky.

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They had this idea that you disappeared
down So if you went into water,

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if you were like these bog bodies
defined and that if you dumped something into

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water as a sacrifice or an offering, you're sending it onto the next world.

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You know, you're going on into
that next realm, which is down

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in the earth as far as the
Celts are concerned. So there is that

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huge spiritual mystical side to Merlin.
Absolutely, if they would have had some

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evidence of that bait being do you
think, yeah, I would have said

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so. The keel It's in particular
were almost honest to the point of being

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brutal. The Romans found them very
difficult to deal with because they were very

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direct and very upfront and very matter
of fact. So I think what we

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see now the ghosts to spirits,
the weird things that happen, you know,

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into dimensional beings if you're into that, you know, the fairies that

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live in burial mounds, fairy mounds, all that side of things. They

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would have had exactly that same kind
of tradition, and positive they would because

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their mythology, you know, certainly
has a strong element of that. Things

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like the Mabadoggie on. I mean, that's a Victorian translation of Celtic material

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that was embodied in various Welsh writings, and there's a lot of Arthurian material

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in that that puts Arthur into this
other world, you know, almost in

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a sort of godlike sense. But
that's what happens when you deify heroes.

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I suppose, you know, you
they become they become godlike and yeah,

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I say something. It's often costs
more and more. And we heard about

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all the burning of witches and everything. Merlin wasn't both at the stake at

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some point two different time periods.
And actually it's a really good question.

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You probably don't even know why it's
a good question. It's a thing,

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well, the answers. The answers. At the same time that druid Ary

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is decreasing, the new religion of
Christianity is increasing. So these these two

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are sort of, you know,
on a collision course with each other,

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which is why the second chapter of
the book deals with Joseph of Arimathea and

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the Holy Grail, because there's no
point talking about Arthur searching for relics and

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stuff like that, and there's no
point talking about Arthur's mindset unless you realize

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that for the four hundred years before
he's here, that's when Christianity is building,

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and that's when that tradition comes into
play, and at some point it

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merges. The two almost come together, probably first century, probably in the

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British Isles, might even have been
on anglesick. They reached some kind of

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agreement and the two come together and
it becomes the Celtic Church. But the

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Celtic Celtic in very strong language church
doesn't operate the same as any other church

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anywhere else in the world. Because
you've got the Celtic Church, you've got

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00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,919
the Roman Church, which is you
know, much later, because that's founded

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by Peter and Paul sixty two sixty
three a d. Whereas the Celtic one

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is Joseph of Arama Theater, and
that's kind of fifty two fifty four a

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D. You've also got the original
Church, because you know, Jesus left

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all the Judaic, Hebrew, Hebrew
and Egyptian material and he left that behind

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in the Middle East. So you've
got you've got that growing. So you've

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got sort of one in Jerusalem if
you like, one in Rome, and

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lo and beholds another one over here. And I'm going to stip in neck

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out and say it's probably Chester.
You know, you had these three capitals

211
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of Christianity. Um, but if
you go knock on the Pope's door and

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say what's the oldest church on planet
Earth, he'll go, oh, that'll

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00:16:07,679 --> 00:16:12,759
be Joseph's Church in the UK,
you know, So yeah, it is.

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00:16:12,799 --> 00:16:18,440
It's the oldest one founded by Joseph. So spring you mentioned Jesus there

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too much in that direction, But
do you actually believe there was a someone

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named Jesus becting, I mean,
I hope I have heard the theory that

217
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,320
he was actually just a um An
invention. Basically, well, it's it's

218
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,159
I mean, I'm going to go
possibly down that route with the book in

219
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,679
the not too distant future, because
a huge number of folks have asked me

220
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,840
similar questions that might be where I'm
going next. What appears to be the

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00:16:45,919 --> 00:16:52,240
problem is, you know, it's
like over here there's loads of people called

222
00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:56,600
John. Well, back then in
Jerusalem there was loads of people call the

223
00:16:56,639 --> 00:17:00,399
Issuer, which is Joshua. So
it's it's a ridiculous percentage. It's something

224
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:06,680
like twenty two percent of the population
male population of Jerusalem had Issuer as a

225
00:17:06,759 --> 00:17:11,359
first name, because at that point
it's your second name that's most important.

226
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,720
So you'd have issue a bar Joseph, which is you know, issue a

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00:17:15,799 --> 00:17:18,839
son of Joseph. Oh, we
know which one that is, because you

228
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,119
know those two names are not linked
with anybody else. But then when you've

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got people saying, oh, well, you know Jesus evangelized, you know

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India after he was crucified. Well, I don't have a problem with that.

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00:17:29,519 --> 00:17:33,680
You know, people started to make
themselves look like you would expect Jesus

232
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,079
to look as a part of early
Christianity, that was the image, and

233
00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:41,480
there was just hundreds of people called
Jesus. They were everywhere. So I

234
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,839
don't don't that's not a problem.
Confusing, Yeah, definitely confusing. So

235
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I think there was one individual that
was, you know, that did what

236
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,359
they say he did, and there's
more than enough evidence to support I think

237
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the existence of that individual. But
then all the other stuff, especially the

238
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stuff that's been bolted on the last
you know, hundred years or so,

239
00:18:02,319 --> 00:18:04,559
or even stuff has been taken out
in the laste hundred years, I'm not

240
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:11,079
convinced that we're actually flowing the right
furrow. I think it's what i'd use.

241
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,200
You know, you're off into Dan
Brown of Incycode territory. There there's

242
00:18:14,279 --> 00:18:18,039
all kinds of weird stuff. So
what I intended to do is do the

243
00:18:18,039 --> 00:18:21,359
same thing perhaps with the Bible,
as I did with Robin Hood and as

244
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I've done with King Arthur. And
that's trying to get back to the source

245
00:18:23,759 --> 00:18:29,759
materials and have a look at what
the source materials say from the from the

246
00:18:29,839 --> 00:18:32,960
time. You know, I understand
there's quite a few debuts around at the

247
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,160
time as oh hell yes, I
mean some of the old some of the

248
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,279
Old Testament biblical names just got used
to death, you know. But you

249
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would have been you know, David
bar whoever, you know. So yeah,

250
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:55,599
so okay, So where does Gwynavia
come into this? Do you think

251
00:18:55,599 --> 00:18:59,480
that she was actually a big part
of this story or was she another invention?

252
00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:03,759
When you get to the medieval stuff, which a lot of the feminists

253
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get really upset by because it's terrible, you know, it's really bad the

254
00:19:07,799 --> 00:19:12,440
way they treat her in the medieval
stuff. That's not how she really was.

255
00:19:12,519 --> 00:19:15,279
When you get to the Roman stuff
and you go back to the original

256
00:19:15,319 --> 00:19:22,240
stuff, Arthur is basically a womanizing
battle leader. So he has he ends

257
00:19:22,319 --> 00:19:27,799
up with seven sons and at least
three daughters and three wives that we know

258
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:33,680
of, okay, and they're all
for some reason, referred to as Gwynevere.

259
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,559
They have Guinevere as the first name, and then something after it.

260
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But the first wife he has his
guire, she produces Mordred. The second

261
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one he has his son Bird from
ruthin that he steals off another warrior called

262
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,359
Whale, who then it turns into
a battle and he ends up killing Whale

263
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:53,279
for this other, for this other
last and then his last wife. Wife

264
00:19:53,279 --> 00:20:00,200
in inverted commas is Guynevere and she
is actually Pictish. She's brought down to

265
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him. I just thought her family
was from Edinburgh. The Picts had migrated,

266
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had settled North Wales in the Mersey
Valley, Derbyshire, parts of Lancashire,

267
00:20:07,599 --> 00:20:11,319
Incumbery. They'd settled all over the
place, so North Wales in particular,

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00:20:11,799 --> 00:20:18,160
Arthur needed the support of the Picts. So actually she's absolutely crucial when

269
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he marries Gwynevere. The Pics rule
through their queens. So when he does

270
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that, when he settles down,
you know, when he's older and he

271
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goes, right, this is the
bird for me kind of thing, and

272
00:20:27,279 --> 00:20:32,440
he, you know, he settles
down. She is so important because she

273
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brings warriors and kudos because you know, she's a queen, you know.

274
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So actually, in the original story
she is more important than Arthur. But

275
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she goes wrong at the end.
It all goes badly wrong because she does

276
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have an affair, but Lancelot not
in the original story. What happens is

277
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,359
Arthur goes over to fight on the
continent because he's fighting for the Roman emperor.

278
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I think it's right now, what's
her name begins with Sir Theodosius.

279
00:21:00,079 --> 00:21:03,720
He's off fighting for Theodosius on the
continent in France. When that happens,

280
00:21:03,799 --> 00:21:08,119
word comes back that he's been killed. So she does what any queen would

281
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,799
do. She marries next of kinds. She ends up with Mordred. But

282
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when Arthur does turn up, when
he finally comes back after whatever it is,

283
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,680
eighteen months, two years or whatever, all of a sudden, she's

284
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,720
like, oh ah, right,
okay, she's got all his money back

285
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:26,200
the losing side here. You know, I've just like, you know,

286
00:21:26,599 --> 00:21:29,880
gone off and bomked his son.
You know, this is not going to

287
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,079
look good when he gets back.
So she does a runner. But she

288
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:38,359
runs back to Edinburgh and they actually
execute her for dishonor because the picks were

289
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,920
notories for keeping weird animals as pets, and it's thought that on the hill

290
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,119
Fort, on the slopes of the
hill Fort, when she got home,

291
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,000
they basically released the big cats.
So she got torn to bits by whatever

292
00:21:49,039 --> 00:21:52,640
they had, you know, jaguars, tigers, whatever, They just you

293
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,640
know, pulled her to bits,
so not a good end. She gets

294
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,599
executed in the end. But she's
also a bit of an opportunist. I

295
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,799
think she's, you get the impressions
of it, kind of you know,

296
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,279
I am a queen sort of thing, very full of herself, you know,

297
00:22:04,319 --> 00:22:07,519
I'm full of power in this,
that and the other. And very

298
00:22:07,559 --> 00:22:11,880
often those kind of people make the
wrong decision when everything goes south, and

299
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I think that's what happened to her
in the end. So, yeah,

300
00:22:14,279 --> 00:22:18,359
she is. She is incredibly important. You know, she triggers off the

301
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:22,440
Battle of Baden. You know,
somebody insults her. I think somebody actually

302
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,680
gives her a slap, and it's
called one of the three three negative Blows

303
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,880
of Britain or something. It's in
the Triads, And because she's been slapped,

304
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,519
it triggers off this conflict about honor
and dishonor, and it ends up

305
00:22:36,559 --> 00:22:38,359
being the final battle at Camlan.
You know, they have this whapping,

306
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,519
great big bust up and it's her
that started it. Well, as I

307
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:48,039
usually do, don't we've been well, terrible, yeah, terrible. Like

308
00:22:48,079 --> 00:22:51,680
I said, she's much more important
than the than the medieval version. You

309
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,240
know, she's not just some bird
to be traded back in two between nights

310
00:22:55,279 --> 00:22:59,759
in shining armor. She's not like
that at all. Yeah, you said

311
00:22:59,759 --> 00:23:03,319
they up home. Now it brings
us to like Kemelot. Now, did

312
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,920
Kemelot exist? And where was it? Well? As you know, if

313
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,640
I speak as an archaeologist, and
I'm speaking to all the archaeologists wherever they

314
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,359
may be out there in the big
wide world, they'll all agree with me

315
00:23:15,599 --> 00:23:22,799
that at that point in the decline
of Roman Britain, there's only one city

316
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,440
that qualifies as the number one city
in Britain, and that's Chester. It's

317
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,319
eleven acres bigger than anywhere else.
It's got the biggest Amphi theater in the

318
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:36,319
British Isles. It's got this enormous
print Kipia, this big commandery building with

319
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,599
the supply base. It's got the
biggest Roman baths which gets converted into a

320
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,079
palace, so chances are that's where
Arthur's palace was, as about two foot

321
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,240
of debris in it that were built
up during the Dark Age period when Arthur

322
00:23:48,279 --> 00:23:53,839
was here. And then it's got
the Elliptical Building, which is this weird

323
00:23:55,039 --> 00:23:59,279
circular building right in the middle of
it looks just like the Pantheon in Rome,

324
00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:04,799
which in you know, Anglo Saxon
Stroke late period Latin, is known

325
00:24:04,799 --> 00:24:11,720
as the table us rotundus or the
round floor because table back then meant floor,

326
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,319
it meant a flat area. So
when you get this idea that Muling

327
00:24:15,319 --> 00:24:18,519
gives it as a gift, as
a wedding gift to Arthur, you know,

328
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:23,240
it's possible that he rededicated the building
at Arthur's wedding to Gryne here and

329
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,880
then it says, but the table
sat three hundred and sixty nights. You

330
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:32,279
think that's one hell of a table. But if you translate table as a

331
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:37,079
space as a floor, you'd get
you'd get three hundred od nights in a

332
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,400
building. That's not difficult, not
something the size of the Pantheon anyway,

333
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,480
dead easy. So this is what
I mean when I say some of the

334
00:24:44,599 --> 00:24:49,519
later things that find the way into
later legend, when you engineer them backwards,

335
00:24:49,799 --> 00:24:53,720
they just make sense. You know, it becomes clear that they are

336
00:24:53,799 --> 00:24:59,720
still based on fact, but they've
been corrupted, you know, they've been

337
00:24:59,759 --> 00:25:04,240
t and somewhere else by the by
the storytellers who weren't familiar with the original,

338
00:25:04,519 --> 00:25:08,559
No Camelot is Chester. Even the
Welsh actually tell you that as late

339
00:25:08,599 --> 00:25:14,720
as when Lamote Arthur was written.
Thomas Mallory wrote that in the sort of

340
00:25:14,799 --> 00:25:18,599
late fourteen hundreds, the introduction that
was put into that tells you that you

341
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:23,400
can go and see the ruins of
Camelot in Chester, that's where they are,

342
00:25:23,519 --> 00:25:26,559
go and see them. You know, well, yeah, because I've

343
00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:30,640
heard that in Cornwall is supposed to
be you know, yeah, possible.

344
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:33,680
But you don't agree with that at
all. No, if you're a huge

345
00:25:33,759 --> 00:25:38,640
fan, if you're a massive fan
of Glastonbury and Tin Tadule and you love

346
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:44,640
London and you think Camelots of Raconium
or rocket or whatever, don't bother with

347
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,480
the book because it's just going to
annihilate that. It completely annihilates that.

348
00:25:49,279 --> 00:25:52,319
But I'm not the only person to
do that, you know, there are

349
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,720
other writers that have pointed out that
there are huge inconsistencies in that. You

350
00:25:56,759 --> 00:26:00,960
know that train of thought. You
told me that, you know, it's

351
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,440
a it's a Rework Norman legend,
it's you know, or anyone's interested in

352
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,640
the actual truth. Yeah, they
should. They should be willing toeft in

353
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,359
mind shure, it's just the way
I'm looking at it, you know,

354
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:15,240
yeah, absolutely, you know,
there are tiles from the excavation of that

355
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,759
elliptical building. There wasn't a lot
of it left, to be honest.

356
00:26:17,759 --> 00:26:21,160
It was swept away in the nineteen
seventies by the building of the bus station,

357
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,160
but they kept a lot of bits
of it. And there are actual

358
00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:29,480
tiles from the floor of that building
in storage in the archaeological facilities in Chester.

359
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,519
So if I got one of them
and I kind of got them out

360
00:26:32,519 --> 00:26:34,720
of storage and put them on the
floor, I'm looking at the surface that

361
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,359
Arthur walked on. So you can
get that close, you know what I

362
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,039
mean. There's one or two other
places where you can get that close as

363
00:26:41,079 --> 00:26:45,000
well. And I would say that
with absolute confidence. There's no doubt about

364
00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:52,279
it. And what the book does
because it's polychronicon because it's in chronological order,

365
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,640
is if you just read the book
and you slowly go through the book,

366
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,640
it builds, so you start thinking, hang on a minute, they

367
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:02,400
did that back then and was in
Roman times, and then a bit later

368
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,839
on they stuck this building up,
and then a bit later on this comes

369
00:27:04,839 --> 00:27:08,519
into play, and then you've got
the Christian martyrs in the arena, and

370
00:27:08,559 --> 00:27:11,000
then you've got you know, and
by the time you finished, by time

371
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,279
you get to Arthur, you start
to think the way that he thinks,

372
00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:19,880
and you begin to see Chester Camelot
the way he saw it, and all

373
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,839
of a sudden, by time you
get to the end of that section,

374
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,640
you're like, you know, there
can't possibly be anywhere else. There is

375
00:27:26,799 --> 00:27:30,559
nowhere else. You know, that
period in time, Winchester was Anglo Saxon,

376
00:27:30,599 --> 00:27:33,880
so that didn't exist Veryconium was just
a big town Rocketer which had gone

377
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,680
derelict by then, so that's useless. London's Viking so that's even later.

378
00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:41,119
You know, Yeah, there was
a socking great big Roman fort there,

379
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:47,480
but you know, Chester's eleven acre
is bigger than any Roman fort ever built

380
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,160
worldwide. It's massive, you know, it's enormous. Vespasian and his son

381
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:59,359
Titus, I think his son is
but Vespasian came back from Jerusalem to Britain

382
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,200
and then designed Chester and built Chester. So you can see where his mind

383
00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:07,000
was that, you know, he
was he was building a world class capital

384
00:28:07,079 --> 00:28:11,039
city and all these little these are
little bits of things nobody ever says you

385
00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:15,119
know what I'm telling you now is
unique to the book, and as I

386
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,880
say, people will read it and
then gradually it builds this picture, you

387
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,799
know, and I expect people to
kind of shut the book after chapter four

388
00:28:22,839 --> 00:28:27,000
and go, whoa the wolf I
just read. Yeah, I have to

389
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:32,880
go back and start again because chapter
five is the that's the academic bit.

390
00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:33,799
I thought. People are going to
read this book and they're going to a

391
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,759
load of nonsense. They say,
I don't know where he's got any of

392
00:28:36,799 --> 00:28:41,200
this from. But the entire of
the last chapter five is all the literature,

393
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,519
and it's all again in chronological order, and it just runs through you

394
00:28:44,519 --> 00:28:47,920
can see how the legend developed.
So there is something there for the academics,

395
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:49,640
you know, it's not it's not
a non academic work. It's got

396
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,119
all the all the clouds as it
were. Right at the end. Yea.

397
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,279
I've made a mass visit Chester because
I've never been there, so oh,

398
00:28:57,319 --> 00:29:00,759
it's amazing. It's got one of
the biggest circuits of Roman surviving Roman

399
00:29:00,839 --> 00:29:04,720
walls um in the world. I
think there's only two or three other sites

400
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,519
that have got better walls and you
can still walk all the way around them.

401
00:29:08,519 --> 00:29:11,839
Now, you know, there's half
the Amphitheater out there. You can

402
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,359
see it excavated. And oh and
then you get into the mysteries. Gonna

403
00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:18,319
have a looking Saint John's Church going
looking, you know, in the in

404
00:29:18,359 --> 00:29:22,119
the main, main, happy church
in the middle. And I must book

405
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:27,200
a couple of days in Chester one
of the things this summer. Yeah,

406
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:32,440
right now, I guess we kind
of come into something. I never thought

407
00:29:32,519 --> 00:29:34,319
that came into one wine. As
you have mentioned about the Knights of the

408
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,400
round Table, why is it that
only maybe a couple of nights thats you

409
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:45,440
made fame from the knights and so
gawayne, I think it was night and

410
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,759
oh yeah, the kind of the
only gal ahead. They're kind of the

411
00:29:48,759 --> 00:29:52,039
only ones you ever got to hear
here wolf. Well, there's a formula.

412
00:29:52,359 --> 00:29:56,680
There's actually a formula involved. I've
got to say, John, I've

413
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,680
got to thank John Matthews for this, because he's a famous souther Arean Schollars

414
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,759
written hundreds of books, but he
took the trouble to go back and actually

415
00:30:03,759 --> 00:30:07,200
see how many warriors he could find. So he went back into the Welsh.

416
00:30:07,319 --> 00:30:11,039
I think he got something like two
hundred and sixty odd names actual names

417
00:30:11,359 --> 00:30:17,799
from different records, ancient records of
who these warriors were. But and this

418
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:25,359
is the Big Book, there were
traditionally twelve really strong warriors gathered together in

419
00:30:26,119 --> 00:30:30,680
Welsh tradition into groups of three,
So he got four groups of three.

420
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:37,440
Lancelot isn't one of them. He's
not listed because that name Lancelot is it's

421
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:42,440
a medieval invention. It links to
Roger Rappottio who was in charge of Lancashire,

422
00:30:42,759 --> 00:30:47,920
so it goes it's post Norman.
It's a medieval writing if you like,

423
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,359
which is why Lancelot, by the
ways up in Lancashire, So like

424
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,559
Martin Meer is where the mermaid fostered
him, and he fights a giant at

425
00:30:55,559 --> 00:30:59,920
Medlock Forward, which is giant Tarquin
at Medlock Forward, which is in Manchester.

426
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,119
So a lot of Lancelot stuff Slancashire. But going back to the original

427
00:31:03,119 --> 00:31:07,960
lists, the original list is Welsh, so all the names are Welsh.

428
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:12,519
So like you know, GWayne is
Glackmey I think is which means the Hawk

429
00:31:12,559 --> 00:31:17,559
of may or the hawker battle.
But all the names are Welsh. But

430
00:31:17,599 --> 00:31:22,000
the reason they've done that in threes
is a bit like the Heaf and Taffle

431
00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:26,680
board, which is the where you've
got a king in the center and he's

432
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:32,079
defended by immediate nights, and then
you have other knights on the outside of

433
00:31:32,079 --> 00:31:37,039
the board that attack him. So
that board, that concept Nine Men's Morris

434
00:31:37,079 --> 00:31:40,319
or whatever you want to call it, which was a shepherd's game in Wales

435
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:47,039
that is actually designed to teach people's
strategy. Well, Arthur needed prominent nights,

436
00:31:47,039 --> 00:31:52,480
he needed certain nights in order to
be strategic. So they're like lesser

437
00:31:52,519 --> 00:31:57,920
battle leaders if you like, lesser
chieftains. Perceval, Boars, GWayne.

438
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:00,799
Trying to think of some of the
others. There's one called eli Wad,

439
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,839
who's a dwarf. You won't have
heard of him. Merlin is listed actually

440
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,079
as a warrior because he's a fighter. Oh gosh, there's more Perador.

441
00:32:10,759 --> 00:32:14,240
Trying to think who they all are
Anyway, they're all in the book.

442
00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:19,000
They're all listed. I've got all
the names and a brief description of who

443
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,519
they are and what they're skilled at, what they do. There's a brilliant

444
00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:27,279
story in the World's called par Gur
and Pargur. It translates basically as who

445
00:32:27,319 --> 00:32:31,240
are you? It's called what Night, but it's who are you? Because

446
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:36,240
what happens is Arthur comes riding up
to one of his forts on the Climb

447
00:32:36,279 --> 00:32:39,839
Peninsula in Wales. He rides up
to this hill fort and they have holding

448
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:45,240
areas in front of the gate.
It's also called what man or the gatekeeper,

449
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,039
because the gatekeepers on top of the
gate. And he doesn't know who

450
00:32:49,079 --> 00:32:52,599
these people are, so he shouts
down basically, and he goes, who

451
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,920
are you now? At that point
Arthur then asked to tell him who they

452
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,279
are, so then you get this
list. He sets off with this list.

453
00:33:00,319 --> 00:33:04,240
Well, I'm Arthur of the so
and so and this that and the

454
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,759
other. And then somebody else shouts
in and goes, you know, I'm

455
00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:08,599
I'm Gwaine of the such and such
a thing, And you get all of

456
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:14,000
his you know, and Kai,
I'm Sakai Kai the fair and I'm you

457
00:33:14,039 --> 00:33:16,839
know. So by the time you
finished it, unfortunately we've only got the

458
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:22,440
first bit because the manuscript is lost
from a certain point, but you get

459
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,640
it. Most of the dozen nights
are listed, and they tell you,

460
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,519
well, I was in this story, and I did this story, and

461
00:33:29,559 --> 00:33:32,119
I did this great deed, and
I went searching for this and and by

462
00:33:32,119 --> 00:33:36,960
the time you finished it all ties
it together. But it's a really really

463
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:42,440
important piece because it's set in the
right period, at the right location,

464
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,839
at the right time. You know, they had hill forts, they did

465
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,119
this, you know, it's it's
absolutely bang on, very early Welsh one

466
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:52,200
and that's where a lot of the
names come from, you know. Fascinating.

467
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,200
Well, everybody, everybody turns around
and they all go, do you

468
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,799
know what, there's absolutely nothing to
do with the old author that survived.

469
00:34:00,839 --> 00:34:02,119
You know, I read a book
the other day there was only three references

470
00:34:02,119 --> 00:34:07,119
in it and I'm thinking, well, you know that's not true, because

471
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,480
yes, we've only got the manuscripts
maybe from the seven eighth, ninth century

472
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,159
that have then been survived in copies. You know, but we go from

473
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:19,079
the language, you know, the
archaeol linguistics. We've gone and checked and

474
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:22,480
we can tell that these are from
older sources. So as long as it's

475
00:34:22,519 --> 00:34:27,239
before Jeffrey Monmouth, you're unfairly safe
ground. You know, it's it's coming

476
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,360
from somewhere else. It's and even
Jeffrey it's great, you know, he's

477
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:34,039
doing the history of the Kings of
Britain and all that, and he says,

478
00:34:34,039 --> 00:34:36,880
well, I went down to the
library at Bangor, and I got

479
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:38,840
me old mate down at Banger to
lone me some books. And that's how

480
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:43,079
I know what this bit of the
history is. So he's telling you even

481
00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:47,440
he's telling you that he's got his
source material from North Wales. You know,

482
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,440
he's telling you that's where it comes
from. So what you do is

483
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:52,719
you just you follow the thread,
don't you. You know what I mean,

484
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:58,000
you follow it back. So really, what they've had in history,

485
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,480
you've got King Arthur and May kind
of Selance a lot has quite at the

486
00:35:01,559 --> 00:35:07,039
second biggest name in the story,
if you like, when the whole is

487
00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:15,079
really it's it's Lancelot is the night
in Shining Armor, and they replaced it's

488
00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:21,679
the Barbarian in Shining Armor, who
was actually Seguayne. So everything Lancelot ends

489
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,960
up being in the later tradition essentially, that's what Seguayne was in the earlier

490
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,920
tradition. A figurehead. Really,
Yeah, they just they wanted they wanted

491
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:37,880
a nice French you know, shining
Renaissance polished armor type. You know what

492
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:45,119
the TV series the Old yet very
first got a TV show. I remember,

493
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,840
well, well, the best example
is Excalibur in it that movie I

494
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:52,639
mean everything shiny and bright, and
you know, but I like Merlin in

495
00:35:52,679 --> 00:35:55,960
that Merlin. I think it's very
convincing as a grumpy old guy that doesn't

496
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,840
want to be mither. You know, he's great, he's brilliant. Yeah,

497
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,920
you know it has merits to come
onto his scaliber, the sword in

498
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,039
the stone and everything. Yeah.
Is there truth in that story about the

499
00:36:08,039 --> 00:36:13,719
store in the stone that only Arthur
could pull it out? Um? Yes,

500
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:19,039
but you've got to almost flip it
on its head. If you know

501
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,280
that at Arthur's crowning when he was
fifteen, because he was crowning Chester,

502
00:36:23,679 --> 00:36:30,840
the World's tell you, he was
awarded a bronze sword of office, and

503
00:36:30,039 --> 00:36:37,199
another three rulers warriors who had also
had bronze swords of office turned up for

504
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:42,639
his for his coronation, if you
like, for his appointment as as Duke

505
00:36:42,679 --> 00:36:46,480
of Battles. When you know that
the process for casting bronze swords was that

506
00:36:46,519 --> 00:36:52,599
you had two halves of a stone
mold, and you poured the bronze in

507
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:58,280
to the top of the mold till
it spat, and then what you had

508
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,480
to do was you had to split
in half and pull the sword from the

509
00:37:01,559 --> 00:37:05,559
stone. You had to be the
only way you were going to get it

510
00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:09,400
out, and it was usually done
under the prying eyes of the druid.

511
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:14,760
So you've got Merlin there. So
the original ones called calder ball go caliburn,

512
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,400
which means shining or flashing one.
So you can imagine them opening the

513
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:22,800
mold up and getting Arthur to come
in and pull out his ceremonial sword and

514
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,719
Merlin going right, it's already shiny, it's flashing. That's what we'll call

515
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,039
it calder ball. So that makes
perfect sense archaeologically. You know, they've

516
00:37:30,079 --> 00:37:34,360
even done that on Time Team.
They've had a go at bronze casting on

517
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,400
television on Time Team, and they
know how it was done. So,

518
00:37:37,519 --> 00:37:40,119
yes, he did pull a sword
from a stone, but you know it

519
00:37:40,159 --> 00:37:45,360
wasn't like a big iron medieval anvil
set on a rock in a churchyard with

520
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,119
you know, this cross shaped sword
sticking out. I mean, that's that's

521
00:37:49,119 --> 00:37:52,840
been modernized to medieval tastes. You
know. Also he did have iron swords.

522
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:58,880
He had too, which were Roman
Gladius type swords. He definitely had

523
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,280
them because if you into battle with
the bronze sword, somebody hit it with

524
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:05,760
an iron one. They just chop
it in half because it's too soft.

525
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,760
It's like the lead. So he
had his ceremonial sword. And then Excalibur,

526
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:13,519
the thing that the medieval people focus
on as excalibur. That was an

527
00:38:13,519 --> 00:38:16,800
iron sword, very much like the
Viking swords, you know, proper folded

528
00:38:17,199 --> 00:38:21,199
piece of metal, which I think
has ended up in the church. The

529
00:38:21,199 --> 00:38:24,159
Holy Sepulcher courtesy of Richard the lion
Heart. I think he gifted it to

530
00:38:24,199 --> 00:38:29,679
the church in medieval times during the
Crusades. So even that's still kicking around

531
00:38:29,679 --> 00:38:30,639
out there. I always say this, one of these days, I'm going

532
00:38:30,639 --> 00:38:34,440
to phone up the church the only
seplicer and go, have you guys got

533
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,440
a rusty old iron bar and a
cupboard somewhere and you've got no idea what

534
00:38:37,519 --> 00:38:40,639
it is? You know, did
anybody out there wants to make a documentary

535
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:45,559
or a television series. I'd be
delighted to do that on camera. Sounds

536
00:38:45,559 --> 00:38:47,440
amazing. You might get a phone
call, you never know. It'd be

537
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:52,079
great, Yeah, especially if it's
Spielberg. Sorry money joking, only joking.

538
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:58,400
I'm sure you're not where does so
we've got his scali where the Lady

539
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,960
of the Lake when when the sword
was throwing in the laker and this hand

540
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:07,400
comes up with the sword. That's
interesting. I think that goes back to

541
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,039
you what we were discussing at the
beginning, the idea that the Celts had

542
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:16,159
that, you know, if you've
got this mirror flat stretch of water that's

543
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:21,119
mirroring you know, the existence of
us, you know, it's as above

544
00:39:21,159 --> 00:39:23,400
so below sort of thing. Because
whatever's going up obviously goes down as well.

545
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:29,639
They had this idea that there were
beings, spiritual beings living below that

546
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,239
level, you know, on to
the next level. And I think it's

547
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:37,280
a survival of this idea of throwing
offerings into water. The reason I think

548
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,000
that is everybody goes, yeah,
okay, we know about the Bronze Age.

549
00:39:40,039 --> 00:39:44,920
We know about flag Fen and all
the offerings that were thrown in during

550
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,400
the Bronze Age, and you know, swords, daggers, knives, shavers,

551
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,920
axe heads, loads of axe heads, anything that was circular got thrown

552
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:53,760
in because it represented the sun.
Yes, we know all about that in

553
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:59,599
the Bronze Age. What most people
don't realize, right up to medieval times,

554
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,280
in the ten hundreds and even hundreds, twelve hundreds, even in the

555
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:08,800
thirteen hundreds, they were still throwing
swords into lakes. It's the same tradition,

556
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:14,119
it's the same idea. So the
idea that there's a female force in

557
00:40:14,159 --> 00:40:19,400
there is very celtic. The idea
there's a goddess or water goddess, you

558
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,360
know, the Romans had the water
nymphs and water sprites and things like that.

559
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:28,880
The idea of that persisting into medieval
legend to create the Lady of the

560
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,320
Lake, that's perfectly acceptable. I
mean, to be honest, the whold

561
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:36,599
of what we've just discussed that section
majority that doesn't appear in the book because

562
00:40:36,599 --> 00:40:39,039
the book's very factual. I don't
really discuss the Lady of the Lake as

563
00:40:39,039 --> 00:40:45,800
a character because she's mythology. That's
where the mythology crosses over, you know,

564
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,639
the belief systems come in. It's
not really a mythological book. I

565
00:40:49,639 --> 00:40:52,519
mean, there is mythological stuff in
there, but a lot of it it's

566
00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:58,679
very down to earth, matter of
fact as you possibly could. Yeah,

567
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:00,920
yeah, I mean, you know, has the idea of some lady coming

568
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,239
up with a sword out of the
lake, and that's that's the basis of

569
00:41:04,679 --> 00:41:07,159
you know, authority and rulership.
That's quite like the idea of that.

570
00:41:08,159 --> 00:41:12,440
I think I think we kind of
need that now. Yeah, I think

571
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,800
I think because we're talking King Arthur, we've got to have those types of

572
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:21,199
subjects because I think, yeah,
where the real history and mythology sort of

573
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,480
crossover, don't they? Well,
it does overlap. This is where the

574
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,920
academic side of it comes in.
And I think John Matthews was quite happy

575
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,559
with the way I dealt with it, and a couple of other academics,

576
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:37,440
because you do at some point you
have to differentiate between the two. You

577
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,280
know, you've got to say,
Okay, when Arthur's fighting a dragon,

578
00:41:40,119 --> 00:41:44,480
is he fighting a dragon? Or
is he fighting a Viking ship with a

579
00:41:44,559 --> 00:41:47,000
dragon head on the front. You
know, when he goes off hunting balls

580
00:41:47,079 --> 00:41:52,599
wild balls, is he hunting a
huge giant wild ball that leads footprints in

581
00:41:52,679 --> 00:41:58,159
rocks? Or is he going off
hunting Anglo Saxons whose emblem is a ball?

582
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,199
You see where this is going,
and that kind of slightly more sensible

583
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:06,280
approach. A lot of people don't
do that. A lot of people just

584
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:07,800
go, you know, yeah,
that's over there, that's spiritual. You

585
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,519
know that that can't be real you
know, and then this bit over here.

586
00:42:10,559 --> 00:42:15,920
Yeah, that's physical because that physically
exists. It's not a clear it's

587
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:17,679
not clear cut. You know,
there's not a line down the middle that

588
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:22,679
puts you into one camp or the
other. Because the Celts in particular,

589
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:27,079
Boy did they spiritualize stuff. You
know, they really did. He has

590
00:42:27,079 --> 00:42:30,119
a battle with the cat at one
point, and the cats are on anglesey,

591
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:34,239
and he has this giant fight with
this enormous cat, leaves claws in

592
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,360
his shields and shreds Arthur to bits. And I think it's only Kai and

593
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:44,159
GWayne that's saved him from being killed
and all this. But the cats,

594
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:50,079
the Qatari, were a Celtic tribe
named after the cat. So all you

595
00:42:50,159 --> 00:42:52,320
do is go look where the Qatari
work. Guess what they're an anglesey.

596
00:42:54,079 --> 00:42:59,320
As soon as you start looking at
the end, you can see how they're

597
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:05,199
sort of physicalized something that was physical, but only in a spiritual sense.

598
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,840
You've got a sort out, you
know, the wood from the trees.

599
00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:10,239
Yeah, of course there were cats
on Anglesey, but they weren't big cats.

600
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,440
They weren't. You know, it
was a tribe he had. He

601
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,679
had a massive scrap with the tribe
and they almost killed him. Yeah,

602
00:43:17,079 --> 00:43:21,079
so they kind of exaggerated the story
too. I supposed to make it into

603
00:43:21,079 --> 00:43:23,280
a religion. And at the same
time, if you're sat in the in

604
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,840
the Great Hall, you know,
and it's six hundred a d. And

605
00:43:27,199 --> 00:43:30,679
somebody's giving you the heroic tales of
Arthur. He fought this cat, and

606
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,800
fought this bear, and he fought
this wolf, and he fought this you

607
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,480
know you're going to be sat there
going, well, I know who that

608
00:43:36,559 --> 00:43:38,440
tribe is, and I know who
that tribe is, and I know what

609
00:43:38,559 --> 00:43:42,239
race the wolves are. You know, they're Vikings, and you know the

610
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:46,760
boars are the Saxons, and you'd
automatically know that. But here we are,

611
00:43:47,119 --> 00:43:52,800
eight hundred years later and we've lost
it. You know, it's it's

612
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:54,760
all the years it's took to do
the book. It took forty five years

613
00:43:54,760 --> 00:44:00,000
in total to get the book into
print. You know, I've buried myself

614
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:04,079
in the mythology of that period,
and you know the way they looked at

615
00:44:04,079 --> 00:44:06,800
these things, So you've got to
you you know, as they call it

616
00:44:07,119 --> 00:44:13,000
context contextualization, it's when you put
things into context. You have to look

617
00:44:13,039 --> 00:44:15,599
at things the way they looked at
them, not the way we look at

618
00:44:15,639 --> 00:44:20,119
them. You know, there's so
much rubbish written about Arthur where people have

619
00:44:20,199 --> 00:44:22,440
not done that. You know,
they're taking stuff from all over the place,

620
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:27,000
all different periods, and you know
they've got no idea of you know,

621
00:44:27,039 --> 00:44:30,280
I mean, my speciality was the
Celts. Years and years, that's

622
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,960
been my speciality. So when you
know that that's what period you're dealing with,

623
00:44:35,519 --> 00:44:37,119
you've got to go back and do
it the way they would have done

624
00:44:37,119 --> 00:44:39,960
it. I can't wait to get
older Bible material. That's just going to

625
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:45,519
be fascinating. Yeah, ufo stings
and all sorts of things. Oh,

626
00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:51,239
she don't get me on Ezekiel,
but gone off you go. I'm going

627
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,800
to say to put your name there
from Mastermind on King Arthur. Have you

628
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,920
tried it? Well, you know
what's going to happen doing you. They're

629
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:00,880
all going to go, well,
you know, let's ask you all about

630
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:02,039
Jeffrey and mon Month. And I'm
gonna be like, I don't do that

631
00:45:04,119 --> 00:45:08,079
people, I don't do the medieval
stuff. Yeah, I've got to say,

632
00:45:08,159 --> 00:45:13,559
we'll looking through a list of things
that you've you've sackled over your over

633
00:45:13,599 --> 00:45:17,159
your life. That's what I'll say, it's actually blows me away. And

634
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:22,079
I think a good demonstration is what
you've been talking about with King Arthur shows

635
00:45:22,119 --> 00:45:25,679
the height of your knowledge with no
notes in front of you basically yeah,

636
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,960
yeah, without a net is that
is that the same with all your subjects

637
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:37,320
basically you can talk yeah people,
Yeah, people have commented on that.

638
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:43,480
I mean I do about thirty I
think I'm up to thirty seven power points

639
00:45:44,039 --> 00:45:47,519
and what they are, they're like
they're like live television shows. So if

640
00:45:47,559 --> 00:45:52,559
people book me for a talk,
basically you've got an hour and you've got

641
00:45:52,599 --> 00:45:55,239
maybe six or seven hundred different images
that will pop up on the screen behind

642
00:45:55,320 --> 00:46:00,519
me. And I don't use notes. I just I just don't learn it.

643
00:46:00,599 --> 00:46:04,840
You know, it's ridiculous. I
would say you've got to have some

644
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,159
kind of photographic memory knowledge because I
don't think I could do it without notes

645
00:46:08,199 --> 00:46:13,840
in front of them. Anyway.
Well, anybody out there, I'm not

646
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:15,760
saying this in a bad way.
I'm saying this in a good way.

647
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,639
But anybody out there is even slightly
autistic or on the spectrum will know that

648
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:27,039
an image is sufficient to trigger off
what you need. Because people think differently,

649
00:46:27,079 --> 00:46:29,599
they think in terms of pictures.
They think in terms of images.

650
00:46:30,639 --> 00:46:32,280
I sit somewhere between the two,
you know, so one just want to

651
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,639
get cracking. All my cues are
up there on the screen somewhere, you

652
00:46:36,639 --> 00:46:38,320
know, and I've got a rough
idea where it's going. So it's not

653
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:43,880
entirely without you know, some kind
of prompting unless we do an interview like

654
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,159
this in your head sort of thing. Yeah, there's something up there.

655
00:46:46,159 --> 00:46:47,920
You look at it and you go, what did I used to talk about

656
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,679
when I when I when I put
this slide up, I remember it now,

657
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:53,719
So that helps with the talks.
But I mean interviews like this,

658
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,760
I'm doing this totally from totally from
memory. You know. There's four hundred

659
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:01,920
and eighty eight pages of notes,
so there's no point thumbing through take forever

660
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:07,360
trying to find them. Yeah,
it's yeah, it amazing. I mean

661
00:47:07,679 --> 00:47:10,880
also, I mean I'll just recently, although it recently, I obtained a

662
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,440
Robin Hood video from you which was
from a few years ago. Yeah,

663
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:21,159
that's fascinated by the amounts of different
connections with different cities, or we always

664
00:47:21,159 --> 00:47:23,880
think of Robin Hood has connected to
Nottingham and Sherwood and everything. But yeah,

665
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,719
if you go, there's connections all
the work. Yeah, in the

666
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,480
real world, he and he spent
about three or four days in Nottingham.

667
00:47:30,519 --> 00:47:32,480
I mean, he was in the
woods around Nottingham. But it's only the

668
00:47:32,519 --> 00:47:37,239
time when when Richard the Lionheart's actually
in this country, the rare occasion,

669
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:42,000
one of the rare two occasions he
was here. It's only when he's here

670
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,400
and he's at Nottingham that that Robin's
there at Nottingham. Nottingham has just been

671
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,280
very good at claiming it as their
own, you know, very much as

672
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:53,440
Glastonbury has claimed Arthur as its own
over a long period of time. But

673
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:58,599
then that's it's kind of a footnote, if you like, because the prominence

674
00:47:58,639 --> 00:48:02,320
and the importance of Chess that has
deliberately been covered up. You know,

675
00:48:02,519 --> 00:48:07,800
they've they've destroyed all of that.
The last vestige of that was the Palatine

676
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:12,000
counties of Lancashire and Cheshire, which
they did away with in nineteen seventy two,

677
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,840
the self governing counties. That was
the end of it. But that

678
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:20,239
was the end of you know,
two thousand years of rule by Chester.

679
00:48:20,639 --> 00:48:23,199
So lo and behold, you're gonna
have a look at robin Hood is brought

680
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:25,400
up, if you like. He's
adopted and brought up by one of the

681
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:30,639
earls of Chester. So his traditional
foundation, if you like, is the

682
00:48:30,679 --> 00:48:37,000
same traditional foundation as you'll find in
this book about Arthur. They're just building

683
00:48:37,079 --> 00:48:40,679
on Chester. I think Chester has
just you know, it's the last gem.

684
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,480
It's the absolute gem of Britain.
You know, it's it's like it's

685
00:48:44,559 --> 00:48:47,320
it's the center of the spokes of
the wheel. You know, the rest

686
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:52,480
of everything else revolves around Chester.
For two thousand years, Chester has really

687
00:48:52,559 --> 00:48:55,679
been the key, you know,
the key place. I'll give you an

688
00:48:55,719 --> 00:49:00,440
example, just to get back to
the book again. I was just curious.

689
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:01,920
I did something as an experiment,
just so we're coming towards the end

690
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,840
of the book, and I had
a look at what happened when the Roman

691
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,920
Empire broke up, because obviously eventually
it ended up breaking up into the Eastern

692
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:13,039
Empire in the Western Empire, so
you still had Rome in the middle.

693
00:49:13,639 --> 00:49:16,599
But then the capital of the Eastern
Empire, which became the Byzantines, was

694
00:49:16,639 --> 00:49:21,519
Constantinople, which is a standbull.
So I thought, okay, you've got

695
00:49:21,559 --> 00:49:24,559
a capital over there, where's the
capital of the Western Empire. So I

696
00:49:24,639 --> 00:49:28,480
wonder what happens if I have a
look at Chester. So I had to

697
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,800
look at Chester, I'd look at
Constantinople, and you've got Rome in the

698
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,599
middle. So I thought, let's
do the obvious thing, you know,

699
00:49:34,679 --> 00:49:36,920
let's go all the way back to
the days of questing and all that,

700
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,880
you know, and look at the
geography. How many Roman miles are those

701
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:46,920
two cities away from Rome, give
all take not very much. Wow,

702
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:52,519
they're the same distance away, it
is. And when you look at that,

703
00:49:52,559 --> 00:49:58,400
when you think, okay, somebody's
actually set off from Rome somewhere,

704
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,239
you know, maybe it was Vespasia
Espasian in the first century. They've set

705
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:06,280
off, and they've gone off and
had a look and decided where the furthest

706
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,519
points of the empire are and then
stuck a whopping great big city there on

707
00:50:09,639 --> 00:50:15,360
purpose. And that's how it looks
to me. Now everybody knows about Constantinople

708
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,840
because a Constantine the Great, you
know, he founded that as like the

709
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,400
big you know, the big thing
over there. But then when you come

710
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,079
across to here, you don't realize
that Constantine the Great was crowned Emperor of

711
00:50:25,199 --> 00:50:30,320
Rome in York. So he's a
brit At the end of the day.

712
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:35,039
Constantine was born to Constantus and Helena, who was a Britain, so at

713
00:50:35,039 --> 00:50:37,039
the end of the day, he's
a brit Well, he would have known

714
00:50:37,039 --> 00:50:42,000
that Chester was the other option.
So when he decides to put Constantinople in,

715
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:44,840
as soon as you start looking at
both of those centers, you think,

716
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,480
oh, they've got a lot in
common. And it's this commonality with

717
00:50:47,599 --> 00:50:52,400
the rest of the Roman world that
you know, it just it obliterates London.

718
00:50:52,519 --> 00:50:57,559
London ceases to exist, It doesn't
even come into the frame. It's

719
00:50:57,599 --> 00:51:00,800
not there for a thousand years,
you know about I don't know, ten

720
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:05,199
hundred, eleven hundred, when they
that starts to take off after the Saxons.

721
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:07,719
So you know, when you go
back two thousand years, it's all

722
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,960
about the Roman Empire, and you've
got to look at the structure that they

723
00:51:12,039 --> 00:51:15,119
created. But they don't blow me
if they're not the same distance away from

724
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:20,800
Rome. You know, the parallels
are just uncanny. It's crazy. Yeah.

725
00:51:20,639 --> 00:51:22,360
Yeah, you never learned a little
bit out of school, do you.

726
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,320
No, nobody says that there's so
much, so much they don't tell

727
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:29,000
you at school. They really don't. You know. So what sort of

728
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,000
reactions do you get when you,
I don't know, you talked to university

729
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:36,519
places, don't you? In other
places you do these talks? Should you

730
00:51:36,559 --> 00:51:40,719
get when? Well, initially,
they're very cautious because I'm media orientated.

731
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,639
So, as we were saying off
camera at the beginning, I've done TV

732
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,880
series and a lot of the academics
are very cautious when it comes to people

733
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:51,400
doing television, you know. I
mean, the fact that I've appeared on

734
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,559
ancient Aliens has probably you know,
scuppered any chance of me being taken seriously

735
00:51:54,559 --> 00:51:57,639
for goodness knows how long now,
But I don't care. Well, I

736
00:51:57,639 --> 00:52:00,199
don't know, I'll take it seriously. Well yeah, yeah, well it's

737
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:02,760
it's a new generation, isn't it. We're you know, we're in the

738
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:07,920
twenty first century now, and so
yeah, some of them are cautious when

739
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:12,480
when they first approached me, the
various academic institutions, they're quite cautious.

740
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,559
But then as soon as they know
what I'm about, they see what I

741
00:52:15,679 --> 00:52:16,960
do, and I do the lectures, and you know, they look at

742
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:21,119
the way the books are written,
things like that. Normally they could then

743
00:52:21,159 --> 00:52:25,079
go to the other extreme and they
realize that actually I'm champion championing the cause.

744
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:30,599
You know, I'm putting stuff out
there that otherwise nobody would know about,

745
00:52:30,639 --> 00:52:32,679
you know, it would just disappear. I've had loads of people,

746
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:36,000
loads of people come up to me
and gone, you know, I've watched

747
00:52:36,039 --> 00:52:38,199
your TV series or watch your TV
program or whatever, and you know,

748
00:52:38,199 --> 00:52:43,519
it got me started on this and
I went off and studied that and excuse

749
00:52:43,559 --> 00:52:46,039
me, you know. So it's
yeah, academically, you know, Chester

750
00:52:46,119 --> 00:52:50,679
still calls on me occasionally. I'm
still lecturing at Wilmslow Guild, which is

751
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:54,440
the oldest adult lecturing facility I think
in the world. It's just coming up

752
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:58,679
for one hundred years. I think
it's next year or the year after.

753
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:01,960
So I'm still in academi you know, I still get called upon to do

754
00:53:02,119 --> 00:53:06,800
things in archaeology and what have you, and I don't intend to give that

755
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:08,079
up. Really. You know.
Somebody said the other day when you're going

756
00:53:08,079 --> 00:53:12,679
to retire, and the answer is, I don't. Yeah, I'm not

757
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:15,119
going to. I think they assume
I make a fortune doing television, but

758
00:53:15,159 --> 00:53:19,599
you don't. It's great for your
profile, but doesn't It doesn't make a

759
00:53:19,639 --> 00:53:21,719
lot of money. You just get
paid for a job and off you go.

760
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:23,679
You know, that's it. Yeah, I mean I would say they

761
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:27,880
probably the books that you've written at
King Arthur probably costume. Man need to

762
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,000
actually do it with all your sund
I don't even want to know, I

763
00:53:31,039 --> 00:53:35,840
mean, how much time, you
know, Yeah, I mean, it's

764
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,559
what I'm saying. I mean when
when when philipp flying This Press said yeah,

765
00:53:38,599 --> 00:53:40,719
go on, I'll take it.
I'll take a chance, you know,

766
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:45,679
because he does UFOs, he doesn't
do history. But as it turned

767
00:53:45,679 --> 00:53:47,719
out, it's been a really good
popular book for him, which I'm glad.

768
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,880
But when he said, you know, yeah, go on, I

769
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:54,159
think I'll take it. It took
me fifty five hours to format it,

770
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:58,519
so I sent it to him finished. But that's that. I'm never going

771
00:53:58,599 --> 00:54:00,079
to get that fifty five hours back. You know, it's never going to

772
00:54:00,599 --> 00:54:05,559
pay for itself. But without the
research in the first place. Oh forty

773
00:54:05,559 --> 00:54:07,519
odd years, yeah, forty plush
years. But my way of looking at

774
00:54:07,559 --> 00:54:10,639
it is, you know, at
the start of the last millennium you had

775
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:14,440
Jeffrey Monmouth and his history of the
Kings of Britain. You know, that

776
00:54:14,519 --> 00:54:17,159
was a brutus book, as they
call them, which is this idea that

777
00:54:17,199 --> 00:54:21,719
you're writing about the matter of Britain. You're writing about British history, you

778
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:25,239
know, and the legends and the
stories of Britain that started the last millennium.

779
00:54:25,599 --> 00:54:28,840
So I'm thinking, well, this
one, obviously, this one will

780
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,519
start this millennium. So if people
are still you know, arguing over this

781
00:54:31,599 --> 00:54:35,599
and reading it and thrashing over it
as long as they have, Jeffrey,

782
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,039
I'll be quite happy. You know, they'll still be rowing over it in

783
00:54:38,119 --> 00:54:40,920
nine hundred years time, you know, so I'm quite happy about that.

784
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,440
So it's definitely not about the money, absolutely not, unless somebody comes along

785
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,400
and goes, I'll tell you what. We'll pay you a decent amount to

786
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:51,719
do a couple of documentaries and I'll
be like, all right, might you

787
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,239
can happen? Yeah, I might
retire after that'd be great to do it,

788
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,400
though, I mean, that'd just
be awesome. That's where my heart's

789
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,239
at, you know, get all
of the camera crew and on location and

790
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:04,480
actually show people where these things aren't
going. This is where it is,

791
00:55:04,559 --> 00:55:07,400
you know. That would just be
brilliant. If anyone happens to be a

792
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:12,440
listing and you'd like to take market. I put on that m Please get

793
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:16,760
in touch with Mark all myself and
shout me on Facebook. I'm on messing,

794
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,119
you know. I mean, we
do go out all over the States

795
00:55:20,119 --> 00:55:22,360
and there's quite a lot of Americas
that are interesting. This covers. Yeah,

796
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:27,639
yeah, you never know who might
be listing. Mark. But it's

797
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,480
it's not going anything to do with
UFOs, but it's it's it's a good

798
00:55:30,519 --> 00:55:34,039
story, believe No. Well from
maybe on another show we'll go into a

799
00:55:34,079 --> 00:55:37,320
bit more about UFOs and stuff.
Yeah. I just say there's a message

800
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:42,079
amount of material that we can cover
over to some shows. I hope you'll

801
00:55:42,079 --> 00:55:45,519
come on again at some point.
Absolutely. You're just about have a guest

802
00:55:45,519 --> 00:55:52,199
appearance here by somebody that turns up
quite regularly. Just arrived. He usually

803
00:55:52,199 --> 00:55:54,679
walks across the back. He's got
this thing about interviews, you see.

804
00:55:54,760 --> 00:56:01,039
He likes to appear is it's stampy
stamp because he stamps. He stamps with

805
00:56:01,119 --> 00:56:05,920
his feet. He's been all over
the world, He's been broadcast all over

806
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:08,280
the world. He really as people
just in on the audio. Cats just

807
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:10,840
appeared on the screen. Yeah,
yeah, we've got a cat here.

808
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:16,199
But Mark, it's been fantastic talking
to you now. The name of your

809
00:56:16,199 --> 00:56:22,880
book again, please, it's the
Polychronicon of Merlin, Joseph and Arthur.

810
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:25,159
And if people want to get any
of me books, because some of them

811
00:56:25,159 --> 00:56:30,400
are got quirky titles, just type
my name into Amazon. And even the

812
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:34,480
ones I did back in the nineteen
nineties you can still get on Amazon.

813
00:56:35,119 --> 00:56:37,239
They're still there. So that's got
to be the way forward, you know,

814
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,440
just click it, pay for a
few days later it comes through your

815
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:45,079
door's mark. Oh yes, double
ill wire. That's all it is.

816
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:49,960
It is, and so you should
be able to find all sorts of amazing

817
00:56:50,039 --> 00:56:52,079
staff from Mark. I mean,
it's fascinating the amount of stuff you've done,

818
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:57,480
obviously, But anyway, are you
going to be appearing anywhere? I

819
00:56:57,519 --> 00:57:00,920
mean, aren't going to the Awakening
in Manchester? I'm hot. I think

820
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:04,719
it's August. I'm definitely going to
blag me way in as a guest.

821
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:06,760
I mean, I can't. You
can't miss an event like that, can

822
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:09,880
you, really, You just can't. So so yeah, she'll see you

823
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:14,320
there. You should see me awakening. Hopefully you're going to bring a couple

824
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:16,400
of books with you all probably well, I mean, at the end of

825
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,920
the day. Most people can just
you know, they can just click and

826
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,239
buy when I'm there. But I
don't know. I don't know whether I

827
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:23,440
want like, I know what you
mean, you don't want to like a

828
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:27,480
lot of books about Yeah, I
just I don't. I don't know.

829
00:57:27,559 --> 00:57:30,079
I might bring I might bring a
few things with me that people will be

830
00:57:30,119 --> 00:57:32,760
interested in, because it'd be wrong
not too so, you know, just

831
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:37,119
tag on the end of somebody's stole
somewhere with the books for a day.

832
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:38,800
I'm not sure I can come for
all three days. We'll just have to

833
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:43,480
see im for all three days.
But I hope you'll pick up meet you

834
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:45,440
for one of that. I'll buy
you a drinking get to meet you.

835
00:57:45,599 --> 00:57:49,519
Yeah, all right, Yeah,
Yeah. It's funny because at one event

836
00:57:49,679 --> 00:57:51,559
I was looking at you, thinking, I know who you are, I

837
00:57:51,719 --> 00:57:54,239
know, I know who that is, and we passed in the doorway and

838
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:58,199
we kind of just nodded and that
was it. So yeah, you know

839
00:57:58,239 --> 00:58:02,480
what that was with the the Whitty
Street. But you've been I know you

840
00:58:02,599 --> 00:58:06,920
from somewhere. You know what it's
like. You don't get a lot of

841
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:09,159
time in between, sort of like
the little you've been. Do you when

842
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:14,360
you'll get to your seat ready for
the next biard. I'll have to go

843
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:15,599
back to the Lost Treasures look as
well, you know, because by the

844
00:58:15,719 --> 00:58:17,880
end of the year, this this
beard, I'm going to be tripping over

845
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:21,639
it, you know. I mean, for those of you listen just listening

846
00:58:21,639 --> 00:58:23,320
in, I have an enormous beard. I look like it's easy top at

847
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:28,440
the moment because father Christmas beards,
You've got an that's all. Yeah,

848
00:58:28,239 --> 00:58:30,119
yeah, keep it till keep it
till December and just rent a red suit

849
00:58:30,199 --> 00:58:34,239
out. But no, it'll probably
be gone by the end of the year.

850
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:37,599
But there you go. Well,
hopefully I'll recognize you. I should

851
00:58:37,639 --> 00:58:42,039
do. But yeah, hopefully over
you'll recognizemer so she color or something and

852
00:58:42,199 --> 00:58:45,519
I'll say hi, for sure,
definitely, but we might even do another

853
00:58:45,519 --> 00:58:49,280
show before that. Yeah, i'd
be nice something. I've got this book

854
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:52,679
coming out in August. Europe's rooswell, because there was a UFO crash outside

855
00:58:52,719 --> 00:58:57,960
Abreast within nineteen eighty three. So
Philip just said to me one day,

856
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:00,280
said, look, I do UFOs. Isn't it time you did a Poe

857
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:04,960
book? And by the way,
it's forty years since this crash, because

858
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,239
I did a documentary DVD in two
thousand and eight on it, which will

859
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:12,440
probably find on online somewhere. I'm
sure it's it's out or Amazon, Amazon

860
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:15,159
Prime. I think he might get
it on but it's out there. So

861
00:59:15,199 --> 00:59:15,880
he said, well, why don't
you just do it as a book,

862
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:19,880
you know, because you can't get
the DVD anymore. So I'm like,

863
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:22,840
yeah, that's not a bad ideas
August. We're hoping to get it out

864
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,519
in August. Okay, book you
for August? Is that all right?

865
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:29,719
Yeah, it's fine. Yeah,
we'll do another shoulder Yeah, drop me

866
00:59:29,719 --> 00:59:34,199
a line on Messenger anytime. Absolutely
fantastic. Well'll be fantastic talking to you.

867
00:59:34,239 --> 00:59:36,480
Thank you so much for following your
time to come on. That's all

868
00:59:36,519 --> 00:59:38,280
right, it's pleasure. It's been
a great pleasure having you one and I

869
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:43,000
will see you and we definitely will
do another show. Lovely show for having

870
00:59:43,039 --> 00:59:45,440
me. I've written about forty shows. Do we go here from all your

871
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:51,079
stuff? Be happy to do it. Yeah, thanks for it's been so

872
00:59:51,119 --> 00:59:54,159
good talking to you, and take
care of yourself and all right, if

873
00:59:54,159 --> 00:59:58,119
you take your beard off or not, I'll see you a Manchester. You'll

874
00:59:58,159 --> 01:00:00,039
see me soon, all right.
Then, every single month thank you pretty

875
01:00:00,119 --> 01:00:05,480
much. By well, there we
are. That was Mark Oli. What

876
01:00:05,599 --> 01:00:08,559
a fountain of knowledge. Amazing and
I do instead to get Mark call again

877
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:13,840
a bit later this year with other
subjects in the not too just the future.

878
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:15,800
Okay, right. The next show, which is going to be Monday

879
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:21,159
the twenty second of May, is
going to be with uthologist Dave Podrean.

880
01:00:21,679 --> 01:00:25,159
They've had a lot of experience over
the years and investigated many ufocuses, so

881
01:00:25,519 --> 01:00:30,000
that should be interesting. As always, if you'd like to get in touch

882
01:00:30,039 --> 01:00:34,880
with me, my email address is
David Young took you in at yahoo dot

883
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:38,719
co dot uk. That's David Young
took you in at Yahoo dot co dot

884
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:42,760
uk. So I hope you'll join
me for the next show, which is

885
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:46,079
on May the twenty second, and
that'll be Dave Podrean. So until the

886
01:00:46,119 --> 01:00:51,000
next time. This is David Young
signing out and I'll speak to you next

887
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:55,039
time. Take care of everyone,
Bye bye. I took it for grantedranted

888
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:59,440
in science, nothing has taken for
granted. But what are we going to

889
01:00:59,519 --> 01:01:05,360
do that? My dear soul is
your parable dimensions is as bright and powerful

890
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:09,360
as our celestial star. That's have
and although it's expending thousands of pounds of

891
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:14,920
energy every minute of the day.
Have no fear, there's plenty left.

892
01:02:00,079 --> 01:02:20,480
M Paranormal Dimensions is fortnightly on Mondays
on the Paranormal UK Radio network.