And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is that triangle. You
know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the Randal Schampars incident that doesn't
involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over our
heads. He's so classic Fly Sorcier. Really standing in the cleary. He
turned over to my father and held his hand, and he looked in his
eyes and said, we're not alone. Welcome to podcast UFO for our live
show. We're live every Wednesday at eight pm Eastern Standard Time on the Dark
Matter Radio Network. Please remember to visit the website podcastufo dot com for past
episodes, blogs and forums. During the show, feel free to participate live
in our chat room, and don't forget to like us on our very active
Facebook page. Hello everyone, This is Martin willis your host. We have
Thomas Wertman. He is an Ohian ufologist for a ufagists from Ohio and the
show had to be pre recorded as his schedule does not work on Wednesday evenings.
I want to say the first hour is pre recorded. If you're listening
live, I'll still be in the chatroom at podcastufo dot com. In hour
two, we have my good friend Chip Reichenthal, and he'll be speaking about
hypnosis of abductees, his own citing and an interesting topic ets versus ghosts,
which may be proven first. That sounds really interesting. Just so there's no
confusion. Chip will be live in the second hour, So if you want
to interact on the chatroom then with him ask questions, feel free to well.
Tom Wortman is coming up right after the news with Alejandro Rojas from Open
Minds Radio, and I want to thank everyone for their support. If you
have not subscribed yet and you want to hear the full show, go to
get Joyride dot com slash podcast UFO. The link is right on our website.
Subscribers pay a dollar a month or more to access the full two hour
show, and that includes a private link to iTunes and several other listening media.
That's it for me for now. So what is going on Alejandro?
Well, I am trying to determine whether or not my coworkers who have been
accused of being reptilian aliens truly are because if I can prove that, or
at least convince myself of it, I might be able to be on television.
I think you can convince yourself of it's. Yeah, that's the easy
part. Yeah, so tell me how does that work? Well? I
got this email from Go Go Lucky today, and they are the people who
do the show Hangar one and Disclose Files some other goofy show. I am.
I think the UFO shows these days are terrible personally, but yeah,
they sent this weird email saying, oh, please, we need someone who
knows about aliens walking among us or reptilians walking among us immediately by Friday.
I got something like this about boy. Yeah, I got something like this
about like a month ago. Oh really, yeah, but I didn't say
reptilians. It's just said that the aliens are walking among us type of things.
Yeah, so they need someone by Friday. So listeners, if you
feel that, contact and open minds. No, don't contact me, contact
Go Go Lucky. Just google Go Go Lucky and email them and say,
oh, I know all about it. My neighbors are reptilians. And then
you'll go on TV and maybe you'll be famous. Hey, speaking of honey
Boo Boo UFO shows, I tend to agree with you. But Ben Hanson,
last time I spoke with him, he was potentially starting a show that
sounded like it was going to be great. Have you heard of any movement
on that? No, I'm not sure. I think that was going to
be by the Smithsonian Channel, and from what I understand, that was going
to air in Canada first, and I'm not sure if it's come to the
stage yet. But yeah, you know, who knows it. I've done
a few TV shows. You have done TV, but in a different arena,
I suppose. But you never know. You know, you go do
the interview, you feel great about it, You're strutting around all you know,
and then it airs and it's like, oh, what did they do?
The editor? I did not say that, And it's disappointing, depressing
and unfortunate. That's how I feel about Hanger One, quite frankly, in
a number of the other shows. So yeah, so you never know,
And these days it gets into the editing and they just don't care about the
facts. They don't care about the true story in their reality programs, and
it's really unfortunate because I think in this field that the real stories and the
real mysteries are so fascinating. I do too. Yeah, it's the fluff
they want it, they want if it's if it's a little boring to them,
they want to make it more exciting. And that's that's all his ratings,
really, And the unfortunate part is they feel that their fiction that they
make up is more exciting than the than the genuine mystery, and they're often
wrong, I think, And they're just too lazy to look into the facts.
And it's easier just to write the script before you even get your so
called experts to come and say anything. So it's unfortunate and I feel the
same. You know, happened with uh oh really in Fox Oh that was
chasing you up? I actually because of James Fox. Well, I was
in it, but I also helped them a lot with developing episodes and getting
in touch with people. For months, I was helping them, and yeah,
James Fox and I and Ben McGee and others felt that it would be
better, and unfortunately they did the same thing. They just kind of destroyed
it. Yeah that's what I hear. YEA too bad, Yeah it is.
So what's happening with the news this week? Well, here's something I
never would have imagined. You know. Jason McClellan and I talked about the
Space News and how we're getting so close all the time to the discovery of
life elsewhere. You know, mainstream science is getting so close, and we
get closer and closer new evidence all the time, and this is new evidence
that none of us could have even seen coming. That is, you know,
as exciting as the rest. And you probably heard of this, But
the Cassini spacecraft has made some discoveries around the moon Saturn's moon, Saturn's moon
Enceladus, And essentially ten years ago they noticed it had geysers and they thought,
wow, that's interesting, and they noted it in their notepad. But
now the Cassini spacecraft has been able to analyze what's been coming out of those
geysers and essentially the makeup of the water, and well that's coming out of
there. They believe that it must be coming out of geysers that are at
the seafloors of these vast oceans under the ice on this moon, and that
it's very warm, like one hundred and ninety four degrees at these vents,
these thermal vents, and so the water is warm enough for life. So
you've got this water. You know that there's an area of water there where
we would be comfortable even, really so pretty excpt squid and planking squirting out
of the geyser. There could be squid, there could be plankton, There
could be a reptilian, amphibious sort of intelligent creature that has developed civilizations.
And if they get here quick enough, they could be on TV. Yeah
right, yeah they could so. Yeah. So this is exciting though,
just another big step towards the inevitable discovery. And you know, it's funny.
My son was telling me about this, like, what was it like
a week ago or something like that. Yeah, this came out. Yeah
that's pretty cool. Oh yeah that this came out. Yeah, yeah,
he came out a few days ago. So pretty exciting it is, and
I think we are creeping toward that fact. I did have a conversation with
Jason out in Phoenix about that. Yeah, and he has a little noncommittal
about saying one hundred percent that he thought it was going to be this year.
Oh really, he we've got this bet. Well, I think he
said in the next two years. But I thought his bet that he was
saying within the next year. Yeah, I think he was. He was
giving himself a little bit of wiggle room when I was he amended it.
Okay, well, yeah, two years ain't bad, but that's still you
know, you gotta you gotta be a man and stand by your numbers.
I think so's I'll have to give him a bit of for that. I
hope you do. Yeah, all right, So what else is going on?
Well, UFO's over Oklahoma City. So this is exciting. I don't
know if you've seen this, but this is creating a buzz out there.
Yeah. This is essentially the morning newscam goes to uh, their their video
cam that's over a casino called Grand Casino outside of Oklahoma City, and this
is Oklahoma City News. They look at they're looking at the traffic on the
highway early in the morning and zip, you see this little light quickly moving
front of the camera. Well, the newscast Koco Coco. They they didn't
shy away from this. They took that third teen seconds of this thing flying
across. They didn't reference it or seemingly notice it during the cast, but
they put it online and so people have been looking at it and speculating a
lot of people have been saying, you know, maybe it's a bug,
maybe it's a bird. The next day actually Koco went to the local college
and asked a couple of professors. They believed it could be a small meteor
like a meteorite, like an even pe sized meteorite zipping across. But you
know, marketing Antonio, for instance, today, the photo analyst for Moufon,
he adamantly disagrees with that. He says, that's ridiculous too, because
for one thing, you can see it like you can see it when it's
all the way down to the ground, but it doesn't streak like a meteor
would you know the constant streak you see in person one, I don't think
you can see it go all the way to the ground, or at least
I don't know. You know, they will dissolve takes a little bit down
near the ground if you watch it. I saw this last Sunday, and
I watched it over and over again, and it looks like when it's heading
down toward the ground, it doesn't show that it's hitting the ground, but
it almost looks like it hesitates a little bit. Something's a little funny about
the thing. Well, what I think my theory, personal theory, is
that it's a very low uh frames per second, which is common for cameras
like that because it saves on memory, and so that's it. So it
looks kind of jittery, and that at the end there's a dissolve into the
next scene, and so it looks like it's moving, but it's just like
the dissolved function, you know, making it look weird. So that's that's
what I think. I don't know, but regardless that, what was interesting
is Mark wasn't sure what it was. At first. He thought it might
be a meteorite, but he in looking at it, he totally does not
think that anymore. However, he looked at it on a really large screen
and he says he thinks, now it might be a bird that's illuminated by
the nearby light. But it's not obvious what it is, which just shows
what an interesting video it is. So people will have to check that out.
I did draw the similarities between it and a video that was taken on
a drone in the Silicon Valley lately. Although we talked about last week,
Uh huh, we talked about that last week. That one is more I
think that one looks more likely to be a bug, but it's also a
wide object zipping by. But yeah, pretty interesting video. It is.
It is and last but not least, Last, but not least, this
is the big news out there, which is Jimmy Kimmel talking to Obama about
UFO. So this is causing a lot of controversy, of course, as
we of course it would. But Jimmy Kimmel, the day before this happened,
I had read an LA Times piece where he said, I think I'm
going to ask Obama about UFOs, just like I did with Clinton. And
of course I got excited and was thinking, why, I hope he does,
and he did so, just like he did with Clinton. He said,
you know, if if I were to be president, which he says
he never would become president, the first thing he would do is run to
where the files about Area fifty one and UFOs are because he really wants to
find out. President Obama said, well, that's why you're never going to
be president. It was pretty funny, but yeah, it was really funny,
I thought. So Jimmy Kimble kept talking about this. Obama essentially said
that you know, I can't tell you because the Aliens won't let us.
They keep us strict control over us. And Jimmy Kimble said, well,
you know, Clinton said he looked into it and he didn't find out anything,
and Obama said, well, that's what we're told to say, so
and at one point he said, I can't reveal anything, and they're laughing
and he's joking the entire time. I saw it as laughing and joking.
It seems like the majority of Americans or people around the world did go that
way. But of course you do have a number of people who are like,
I can't believe you. People think he's joking. Just he's telling the
truth. The aliens won't let him talk, and that's what they're told to
say. And a lot of our colleagues, a lot of the people we've
some of the people we've interviewed, both of us and some of them that
are more well known who we may have interviewed, often are coming out and
saying, yeah, he's probably telling the truth, you know, just trying
to make a joke of it. So I don't know, that's what happens.
In my story, I also wrote about, you know, a similar
situation that happened back in nineteen eighty two, when Steven Spielberg went to the
White House to screen Eat and with Ronald and Nancy Reagan, and at the
end, Ronald Reagan stood up and said, you know, there's not many
people who know just how real this is, and everybody started laughing. Spielberg
said himself, he thinks Reagan was joking. He's a ufologist, and he
hopes he was hoping. You know, he wishes he wasn't joking and it
was real that he was just joking. But of course a lot of our
fellow researchers in this case believe that Reagan was not joking as well. So
that's what happens. Well, many times, I think like three times during
his presidency, he did say something along the lines with if we were being
attacked by, you know, someone from another world, we would all join
together. And actually Bill Clinton said the same thing on Jimmy Kimmel, you
know, a very similar thing, right. Yeah, So anyway, what
does that make you think? What do you think? Are you telling me
you think, which is fine, I respect other opinions. Do you think
Obama, Clinton and Reagan are hiding something? I really don't know, And
I really think that if there was something to hide that the government is hiding
that I think it's very possible that the government would not let the president know,
it's a need to know that type of situation that's Clinton has Yeah,
Clinton, I said on this topic, I wouldn't be the first president that
career bureaucrats have lied to. And it makes sense that if there is a
project out there, you know, it would be a need to know.
And why would you tell the president? You probably wouldn't want to tell any
politician. Yeah, that's so true. Well, hey, this has been
fun and I could go on and on forever about this, but I really
should. Probably the guests do a little bit of talking. Yeah, well
if you want, all right, whatever, kick me to a curb just
until next week. All right, thanks a lot, and we'll be talking
to you next week. Okay, talk to you next week. So hang
in for the music clip. We'll be right back with our guest, Tom
Wortman. Tom Wortman, how are you? How are you great? And
thanks for joining us for the show. I did mention earlier in the monologue
that this is pre recorded because of the schedules just didn't work. But actually
the very first listener to this podcast, Scott, you did meet him at
one of your talks out there and he suggested to have you on and here
you are? How about that? And you mentioned Scott And we kind of
talked a little earlier about a scription about Scott. He's a wonderful gentleman on
here, and I mean he was very much into the talk with her that
night, and I appreciate him, you know, giving you my contact information
on there. Yeah, we know Scott by the mega beard he has.
He is a really without Yeah, that was an easy identification when he pointed
that out. So, Tom, who are you? Well, the listening
audience, who you are? I know you have a number of titles,
but one of the things I did read about you is you and I kind
of share the same interest in science. So I like that about you,
and go ahead and tell the listening audience who you are. Well. My
name is Tom Wergman, and I'm the state director for muture Ulf Network for
Ohio. I'm also a member of the Star team for a Move on Itself
and I'm also part of the Case Assistant group, which works with doing international
cases investigations out there. This is something that you know, when I got
into this, it was just I call them mid life crisis. That's the
best way I kind of describe it, because you know, we've blessed our
hind ends for how many years? Now? Like I'm right now, I'm
six years old, and I'm thinking I've worked behind and off for forty some
years. You raise a family, you've raised the kids, You've taken them,
chase the kids down, you help them out all these years, get
them off to their start, and not all of a sudden you hit in
mid life crisis. And it's kind of now, I guess you could say
meantime. And when I went to that realization myself, you know, this
is male logical. I want these three stagentis one way is? I always
asked a wise I said, you know, I'd love to have a Corevette
and she's like, we can't have a ploy that it's in practically kids.
I said, kids are going to gone. Get rid of the impracticality of
that. I want to vet, well, she's gone. And if that's
in the garage. Now, that's another thing that happens in life with some
of this too. Well, that's right, here's the MAO logic number two.
You know, MYO logic number two was I got rid of the motorcycle
were not long after we got married. There goes to Harley and the guys
out here would probably listening to children you got with the Harley, what type
of videodar you probably should get rid of her? And said hearly. You
know, well again like I said, she was gone, So the motorcycle
was not a garage to keep the corporate companies. Again, that's just myle
logic. But then the third thing they did is I said, you know,
I said, as all these years, like we were talking earlier,
and we both had similar interest in youthology and mine started back in the mid
nineteen sixties. We had to book at the month club in school, and
I think a cost of a grand total of like thirty five the fifty cents.
So by Frank Edwards, Flying Saucery serious business. And when I read
that book, it was my first book that nature I was booked, and
I read that book from front to back. I mean, I wrote a
book that's pretty much. And I remember, even as a kid, making
notes in the margins on my thoughts about different pockets he presented in the book.
And one of those in particulars there's a photograph from mcmindee boygon oh.
Yes, And as a kid I remember looking at photographed Elvin never been saying,
you know, there'st of ours, but seeing hers to strangers don't see
that. And I just made a note in the margin saying I don't know
what it is. And here to this day that photographs still stands up as
one of the best photographs are on UFOs. Yeah. So they even have
a festival out there once a year exactly, and I've never been there,
but it's something I'd really love to do. But that was where I kind
of started from. And then, like I say, you know, we
go on and we raise a family. I went on got two degrees.
I've got a bachelor's in the business specialized in HR. I've also got a
master's in education, and I've involved on an education for this is going on
thirty three years. And like they say, now it's me time. And
I also see, you know some things by being involved with this field.
Is I guess you could say synchronicity. You know, things happen for a
certain reason. And when I got this idea to start, you know,
pursuing you know, my earlier in this back in ethology, I still wonder
for anybody who does this stuff. And I just happen to be listening to
another radio answer that night. It was discussing the UFOs and I war on
the internet in the Google search and I found a group called the Cleve Mythology
Project. Uh then make a plain as being the oldest group not just to
Ahio but the world. Nineteen fifty two and they had been meeting ever since.
I wanted a first meeting. And here's the same Finnicity. It was
their first meeting is only two miles where I lived. And it was like
two days after I found on Internet, I became a member. I started
taking getting involved more of the group. And that was the same time I
said, you know, this group does a lot of general in stuff.
They're very good at it. You've got some great people in the organization.
But I want to go farther. And that's where I found New Found and
then got certified as a Feeling investigator and started doing investigations. And from that
start, roughly almost six years ago, now I've done I think maybe off
the top, I had six hundred cases investigations and several hundred there was a
batche Ha been in Canada and Nighted Kingdom and even stretching down into Puerto ricoings
so far and I found it when I started doing investigations. Number One,
I love to talk to people because they're seeing things that can't explain the reality.
Probably eighty per percent of those can be explained out there. And as
I got involved it, I started becoming more adeptive investigation skills. I'm very
computer litterc I start explaining my skills with a computer doing analysis the investigations.
And over these years I've had some real gems of investigations that have just jumped
out, and I spoke people openly. I said, sometimes I turn it
over a hundred cases before we find that one gem. I turned with a
hundred rocks. But when you find that gem out there, it makes going
through those hundred cases worth it. I bet. So can we talk about
some of those gems. We don't have to write now. You can keep
going if you'd like, but I would love to hear about those gems anytime
you like. I mean, there was actually two of them kind of stand
out, and one of the case, as it stands out, was one
that we had happened here in Ohio. I received the phone call the home
one afternoon. It was from Craig Lang, who was in charge of cases
for connic Case went to the Star Team, our immediate response team, and
he notified me that there was a instant where two gentlemen down in southern Ohio
in a state park called Salt Fork, had had experience with missing town.
The gentlemen who were doing an all night fishing trip. They went down in
the evening on a Friday evening and it was early Saturday morning that they discovered
that they missed three and a half hours, a time they couldn't explain.
And when I got the phone call, I had immediately called the witnesses up
the top of the goodness, got background information on the witnesses wnds early forties
other than nineteen years old, I mean, very nice and the visual on
the phone. And what I did is I talked the senior or too into
getting both them to go right back into I guess you could say based like
the lions them that night. They'd gotten at the house sometime early morning and
when I talked to me off to his roughly right around tenelf on the clock,
I hopped him from the fire and met him and I had to drive
down the Southern Ohio and we got back down there that evening and we retraced
all the events that they had, and it was a really unique case because
here they were, they were setting along a lake down there called Sulfur,
and they had their fishing poles in the water, and they're just kind of
setting back, you know, rebating the books every half hour. They're going
back and putting women in the fire every half hour, and even women as
fire as playing the game with each other saying, you know, we've got
so many minutes left before they have to go back and put them in the
fire. And it would guess to south close it could come to exactly one
half of an hour. So they'd been doing that not just that night,
but other nights previously that when he was down fishing, it was approssingly about
ten thirty when they saw the first of lights to the north heaven above a
tree line. They washed them for a short time and then they went back
to fishing, kind of disregarded the lights of they had seen eleven thirty lights
come back again. They're helding back and forth along the same tree line area.
Very bright in this case, it was like much brighter and normal star
almost like maybe like an aircraft was right on top of him. When I
did my initial investigation. That same day there were a couple of aircraft,
but not in that same exact location. They were destroying about one thirty in
the morning. They remembered hearing it like a real shrill voice, and a
shrill voice not almost female. And at that point they started getting scooped.
Here are two gentlemen who had been fishing at the same location, not just
once, but they had probably one thousand hours fishing and more at that same
location, so he knew that area inside out. Well, it stooped him
enough that they almost hopped in their card up that day. Actually were trucking
up where they stayed, and one of the gentlemen was up to the under
them the nineteen wheel was updating his foot and the next thing they remembered was
the forty some year old looked at his cell phone and said, they do
We're not gonna believe this was what there's five nine feet in the morning.
Wow, So they don't remember anything from one thirty, so five nineteen in
the morning, and they said, first of all, nineteer old will never
stood by his fishing line for three and a half hour, three hours and
forty five minutes without me doing something else. I mean, he would have
been doing something else in the whole time. Also, family members that had
been doing phone calls back and forth with the wife, the girlfriend and they're
out of contact for that same time frame on it, and they did have
cell phones reception the area they were at that night. We went back,
we retraced our entire steps, and I'm one when I did the investigation,
they showed me, said, yeah, we've got a cooler here. I
popped the cooler open, looking for you know, potentially alcohol, nothing like
that water. I checked over it and they had there's no signs that you
know, anything else would have affected that last of time from on there by
our you know, other methods, we walked the whole region down there.
They showed me what it's been at. They retraced all their steps, and
they works to me scared. That's where described the nineteen year old was kind
of like almost like acting like Barney fIF He was right out on the edge
of seat and he will sound be heard in the woods. He was just
jumping all over the place. And what I didn't tell him was that night
when they were walking around at one time when they reacted. I'm normally very
easy going. It takes a lot forget the theme my attention like that,
but wondering noise as they heard off in a distance, I sent something myself
in that direction. And the reason I say sensed is that I'd have had
some experiences when doing these investigations where I felt a presence or felt some maybe
energy often a distance or energies around him, and I felt like an energy
off in one distance, but I acted like nothing happened. We finished out
going through the investigation at night. I even thrept about the clothes that they
had, which I've got out being research and analyzed. And what I didn't
tell them is that following week I went back down to myself at about four
in the morning. I went to first all see if they were down there
at that time. Of course they weren't. Secondly, I wanted to take
them basically reach race stor steps as close to a time as what I could
if they were there. And when I was walking around, I took the
typical instruments and investigative abuse. I didn't pick up any magnific anomalies. I
didn't pick any unusual look at the fields up or nothing like that. But
I was walking around the region where they were at. I started walking around
as the mare start walking on the rest of the park, and I hit
one spot that I'm looking at somebody instrument in my hand. I think it's
completely black, completely dark, got almost no ambient white, just a little
tiny flash that I had in my hand, And all of a sudden,
when I hit one spot, I sent something. I felt an energy,
and I said, whatever it was was here, And I looked down.
I was standing in an impression of burnt grass the same size as my shoulders,
and it was the only spot where you could see that same type of
damage to grass. But I just felt something was there. Since that time,
I've had contact with both of them. A few weeks after he went
the forty some year old was still extremely nervous, he said, for a
number of nights and never went out of the house after dark. As a
matter of fact, the nineteen year old stayed at the home of the forty
some year old. Is like a family group, and they basically all slept
in the same room. Helped in the wife of the four friends. Everybody
stayed in the same room that they were totally scared at night. Here's something
that freaked that individual out so bad, maybe him that night, and he
was a construction worker. He also was trained in martial arts and he was
instructor. I trained in martial arts myself, and I mean there was no
reason he should have been that's shaken up. But whatever happened to him left
them in question. That Eden we've talked after that time. I mean,
it still extremely bothers him because he doesn't fit with the UFO. But he
says, I missed three hours and forty five minutes, bas so that I
cannot explain, and I know cue what happened. Neither ones they don't remember
anything that time. For him, I could certainly see why that's scary.
Now this is kind of interesting because this is now the third story that I've
heard when someone was fishing. There was that famous one down in I want
to say, Louisiana, and I had the Gentleman on the show where the
supposed aliens had like cones coming either their head, just drawing a blank on
who that is a really nice guy. And then of course the Alagash incident
when they were out fishing in their canoe. So caution to everyone going fishing,
look out exactly, especially especially Lively State Park all night long. Yeah,
it's funny about parks, you know, you hear a lot of things
about parks, people missing, and all kinds of weird stuff. Have you
been in touch with these people since and talked about this? We exchange emails
not long ago, because I've had the clothes up being reviewed being looked at,
and we did find some materials on the clothes, but we're going to
be a closer investigation. And they didn't really comment about their condition right now,
but I can tell that the older gentleman is still upset. In the
correspondence on Eve, those very brief the nineteen year old, the last I
had contact with him before that was like a few months ago, and he
was pretty much coming back to normal. But again, you think about his
age, he's years old. He's probably going to be the most likely one
to return back to normal. Somebody who's a little bit older is going to
be more upset potentially by something like this, And especially he's an individual who
has his wife described it. He's very much has to be in control of
time. If he says he's going to be at someplace eight o'clock, he
doesn't want to get there. It'll one Yeah, so now he has somebody
basically taking three hours and forty five minutes of his life away and that's what
scured the upsetting part, and that's what he wants an answer for it.
Yeah, that would when it happens like that. I mean, I just
can't even imagine what that's like. But you know, to have two people
have it at the exact same time, it really is something that you know
can't be explained too easily, that's for sure, exactly. And I've turned
it this way. I said, either they are two of the best liars
I've ever seen in my life. I mean, these guys deserved the Academy
Award or ends a space. Something happened and I've talked with Travis Walton and
again Travis Walton's another one to me who has a very very incredible story,
right, And they showed and they shared similar signs of nervousness. Like when
I talk with Travis would be open and he'd discuss it, but we'd be
just to see that that event just really shook up his entire life. Yeah,
I think he's come more in terms with it lately in the last couple
of years. But the first time I met Travis. He he just seemed
very uncomfortable talking about it, But I think he's he's kind of he's a
little bit more at peace with the whole thing. Now. That's that's uh.
The last time I talked to him, he's sort of mentioned in a
roundabout way that that's how he's feeling. And that's the impression I got too,
because we talked and it was three years ago now became me for a
conference in Ohio, and he said, basically, what he's now come to
peace with in his mind is that when that event happened, initially he thought,
you know, somebody's trying to injure hi or something like that. Now
he thinks that maybe he got close enough to whatever this object was, but
maybe almost like maybe like electrostatic charge, maybe pass and knows what something hitting.
And they actually took him inside to help him more is first aid,
and they wanted to make sure that he was okay before they let him back.
Bill. Yeah, and that sounds like a freely pause duct nation.
Yeah. Yeah, he did mention that on one of my shows. And
yeah, I think that that would certainly help you deal with it a lot
better, that's for sure. But you're right. He's one of the credible
ones out there in my opinion anyway, And when you're face to face with
someone, I think you really get a good feel about that. Oh you
don't. And I got to spend pretty much three days with him when he
brought him into the conference, and like I mentioned, my background was I've
got the GREENHR, so I really looked at him personality wise, the non
verbal communications is it looked at and to me, the signs were there that
he was a very credible witness, right right. So I wonder if if
those two guys ever went back fishing again together. Well, I'm one of
these individuals that it's not beyond me to hop in the car and again on
a Friday Saturday night, don't say anything anybody about it, and just drive
down to Southern Highland and see if they're there. That's the best way.
Wow. Yeah, Hey, earlier you were mentioning you were up in Canada,
and then I believe you said Puerto Rico or some other place. I
can't remember it was it Costa Rica or Puerto Rico. Well, I've been
doing long distances. Yeah, I wish I had the ability that they were
able to fly down but I've been doing all my research by internet online or
potentially putting individuals in contact with somebody in that region once we identify the case.
One of the problems that we have sometimes is getting enough investigators to fill
different regions. And Canada right now is doing a good job getting the investigators
in and building up a group of investigators, but it's not always that way
in other countries. For some time I was helping out in Canada, they
also had me doing a lot of cases in England because they had roughly about
three investigators for doing the entire country, and they were getting as many cases
on an average that we would be doing in Ohio here roughly about thirty plus
cases a month. And when you've got three people, you just get told
me overwhelmed, and really you can believe right out. So I'm one of
these workaholics. I jumped in and said, sure, I help out with
it, and they started giving me a lot of cases, a number of
them you could explain. I came across individuals who sent in videos of drones,
you know, they didn't believe that they were drones. I've had situations
where it may be of an object of his mets insects even once you get
an extreme magnification and up to his insects flying in somebody in from of somebody's
camera. But then you get that aha moment again where I had an individual
who reported in this case it was a historical case. There as a child
about seventy eight years old. He was driving with the family on a little
family expurgeon and on the way back, they're heading back towards where they lived.
They're going down when these ural country roads and they had the sun group
focun on. The party looked out the sun with me sees three objects approaching
from the business. When he sees the three objects approach, the car stalls
out again. This is kind of like the bad B movie. The car
stalls out, lights go out, and next thing you know, he looks
over his mom, his dad, and the sisters and they all basically fall
asleep. And next thing he remembers is dad wakes up. They all wake
up Dad and he starts to cart. They take off. They finish a
trip that they figure out that they're missing approssman two hours. Now you think,
here's a younger child, and you know, how credible is he going
to be? Well, the story wasn't rekindled by him. He was talking
to his mother about UFOs and she goes, well, don't you remember when
we had art event, and it's what do you mean? And she started
describing it, and he started remembering the details. But his mother brought it
up to him and there was a very deep story on there. And when
he was talking about it, he says that later on his dad, who
was little bit strange to his father in the later years, and one time
his dad got mad at him and his dad said, you're not my son.
They took my son gee exactly. And here this was one of the
cases. It was potentially to be overlooked just because it's sheer volume and just
being able to keep up. But it was one of those you know stones
you overturn it, and here is the jam of the case. I put
him in contact with some investigators from England. Then once I'd done my research,
they follow up and then they actually got Captain Martin Bull and the investigator
over in England to talk to him. He says, you know, this
is another guy that helped. He says again, if this guy's not didn't
happen to him again, he's a fantastic wire. I talked with Gillman on
SKIP several times. Again, very very credible. I watched a body language
and they found out the same even they did their local investigations. Then all
he was wanting was no fame, no glory, he says, Just can
you help me to find an answer to what happened? He says, because
this is what happened to him, and that's all he was looking for is
just an answer. Wow, that's pretty amazing. Now, as far as
Moufon goes, I have a few friends that are you know, work with
Mouffon, Mark D'Antonio on images and film, and a few other people and
there, but Moufon. There can be some controversy about that now and then
no, I've heard, you know, I got a message from an old
time investigator from all the way back in the sixties, you know, saying
that Moufon was infiltrated by the government, by the CIA, all the way
back in the nineteen sixties. And and you kind of hear about stuff like
that. What do you hear while you're you, you're involved and move on
itself. There's always underlying rumors that potentially different people have given out different information
that in this case that I've had a couple of cases where I've come across
that the witness was approached shortly after the case was filed by individuals from the
outside of the organization, and it makes you wonder on where you know,
where the suicide of information was and on why these witnesses were contact on that
appeared to be a very good case. That's short of time after it happened.
But but the thing is is, I mean, they're violence organization.
And with about of violence organization, you're putting in the best people you can,
right You're you're going off of the people you know, trusting, you
know, putting faith in that. That's what they're here for. I know,
I always look at there's always one or two bad apples and whatever organization,
And you know, I think there have been a few people that have
kind of used the title for uh, you know, for a little bit
of fame here and there, a little bit of screen time perhaps, But
for the most part, I think that you know, anyone that's out there
volunteering and investigating is is doing a good thing. And that's it. I
mean, I know a lot of people are putting in tons of hours volunteering
for this project, that project, whatever they can to help out. And
like you say, you're always going to have potential somebody who decides to say,
Okay, I'm going to do this for my own personal interest. And
the thing I can hope that somebody does that is, you know, they
lead the organization because we need people who are really trying to gather good information
for the pause of trying to really figure out, you know, where these
fitnesses are, where they're coming from. And I just try to put an
answer for it right now. Are you supported by moufon though, or like
to say, if you're a field investigator and they ask you to go out
to southern Ohio, are you supported by doing that? Or is your gas
mileage everything is all out of pocket or do they actually help with expenses.
I'm supported by my pay I get from my regular job. There's no income
coming in to support Distant move On. Even any subscribers we have within the
state of Ohio, which we put out whether in subscribe to list what we
do with that money as that goes to a newsletter that goes and towards host
of a conference each year that doesn't go into the line of anybody's pockets in
the organization. It goes to support the web pages things like that. When
I go out and I do my investigations, that money's right out of my
own pocket. And I'm very honest with people considering investigators because they see TV
shows sometimes and they say, you know, hey, i'd have to do
this, this is kind of like CSI maybe, But then they realize that
number one, they've got a buy a manual, the manual froms O their
own pocket. They've got to studying the manual, have to do research,
we have to get together, we have to meet, we do menoring processes.
Then they find out that it does sometimes add up to quite a bit.
I do a number of programs across sort of a hire trying to educate
the public, and anything I get for that, all I ask is gas
money just to get me from one end then to another one to keep this
type of a thing going. It's not trying to make me rich, because
I know it wouldn't happen anyway. But I just want to take and really
see you follows your dance and form the public because sometimes they based their opinion
on UFO reports, on what they see on the internet. Well, I
saw this YouTube video and that's one of my pet peeps. Okay, well
you could video show it. Well, it shows me this alien. Okay,
and Mark Antonio would probably look at and go, this is a good
CGI. And I've done the same thing where I've got gotten. I put
some photographs in and I look at the photographs and a couple of actually came
in from Canada and it was basically an app putting an alien in a photograph,
and it was extremely easy to detect it. And when I called the
witness up confronting about it, oh, I don't know anything about that.
I know absolutely nothing about phone apps. It must have installed on my phone
all by itself. And when the camera went off, it must have actually
gone off along with the camera at the same time. And it just drives
you crazy. And I spent I don't know how many hours getting the photographs,
researching the photographs, because first time they said up, I said,
well, I mean the photographs who uploaded. I want the ones corrected from
your camera. I don't want multi generation copies. Well, one witness wouldn't
submit me the original photographs because he knew what I was going to find.
The other one I did. It was just like shooting fish in a barrel.
Was too easy to identify. And I want to say, you know,
here, I've got two photographs from really about within seven miles of each
other of aliens. One is basically by a woodpile and the other one is
posing in a bedroom. And I'm looking at these and saying, you know,
they must have the same poses. These are very closable aliens because I
mean very Photogenye, they take the same stature. I mean they look the
same. And the image it looked like one especially was drawn from almost like
a Halloween costume by a child. I was sent. I was sent one
of these, by the way, Oh you were yeah, and it was
by a swimming pool. Yeah, oh my yeah, it's pretty funny.
And you're right, it is an app That's what I was sold. Yeah,
but here's the bad thing. In that same region that this witness was
from. Both these witnesses should say we're from a week prior. I got
a case. It's seemed a little bit. Healey about an individual describing the
lights in his bedroom going around the inside of his bedroom. He also reported
looking at the window and said, I've seen the great alien looked me in
his window. Now those are the ones that kind of make it up.
Sure, yeah, right, okay, we'll check it out, We'll do
an investigation, but you know, maybe I'm not going to put you know,
all my hours in this one case. Well, I started doing a
little internet research because I mentioned I love to do research. And the thing
about today is where we benefit some from my social media. You can go
in the Facebook, you can see that the person has a face for the
side, kind of profile them. Off of what you see there, you
can go to LinkedIn. Well, I found the gentlemen by the same name
on Lincoln in the same area who had a very professional background, and if
I was in his field at his level, according to Lincoln, if it
was the same person, I wouldn't want myself identified with seeing aliens at the
window. When these other photographs came out, they started posting stuff in local
newspapers, and I found local newspapers in the region regarding these events. And
next thing you know, I tried to reach out to contact this witness,
which may have had incredible storm on it, and he basically disappeared into the
world work. And I think a lot of it was because the notoriety from
the other photographs and stuff on me, and he may have been one of
these people who have been having these tremendous cases, but I was never able
to make contact because of the related events, because of a couple of people
pulling some hope in that same area. See that's very ironic. Now,
when Mouffon gets these cases, I know Roger Marsh does a lot of blogging
about the cases that come in. When they get these cases that come in,
how do they delegate where a case is going to go? You know
who's Is it always by region or sometimes do they they go by the type
of case it is? Well, it's actually goes both ways. You've got,
first of all, lower profile cases which are not let's say, for
example, abduction. Let's say for example, sometimes maybe like a landing something
it's an extremely pos encounter. Those cases first of all get delegated down to
the state. So what NUFON does is when you report a case like right
now in Ohio, the case they look at, they say, this is
from Ohio. Let's send it to Ohio and let's let their team look at
it. I received the case because I'm the one who assigns all cases within
the state, and I've got a pri with ten investigators right now in the
state. That what I do is I look at the region they live in
and assigned cases based on the region erect The few exceptions I may make is
if I see that one investigator is getting overloated because let's say Cincinnati has more
cases than maybe some other region, I'll take and maybe try to spread the
wealth a little bit. Another thing I look at is if you get that
aha moment that maybe this case has a little bit more substance to look and
maybe what people realized, then you may reach out to a little bit more
senior investigator and delegate that case down to them. But when you get cases
in this case, like the abduction situation we had, we've got the Star
Team, and not all states have a Star Team, but a number of
states it's more like an immediate response team. When that case comes in,
the state director is also notified, but it gets delegated down from Star Team
members from that state, and our goal is to make contact with the witnesses
within three hours. We want to be on that scene as close as we
can, especially if you configure that what if we had like a Roswell Parish
here in Ohio. We want to get there before these green trusts come up
with canvas backs don't fit it everything away. We want to get that first
opportunity. They're also forming a newer team now that's going to be in a
similar nature where when these high profile cases coming again, extremely high profile,
they get again more seasoned veterans out there immediately to handle these. So it's
really kind of like they're looking at the case, the type of case coming
in. They want the best people hanging as handling it as possible. I
see now, right Patterson in Dayton, Ohio. Is there a lot of
things happening in that area. We get a number of report in that region
then way and sometimes depends on the time of year. There's an area called
the Middletown, Ohio down there which has skydivers and just what they like the
skydiving high players. Right, yes, and every July June July we can
always expect who knows how many reports coming in from skydivers And you go to
the website and you say, well, we didn't we didn't know that we're
going to attract attention like this. But then when you look at their advertisements.
They say that we have been known to make news media that draws attention
to your event if you're considering hiringess, which meant that they would be featured
the national news or local news because of UFO recurs is what it really bailed
down to. We get those, we get the Chinese lanterns, but then
there are people reporting and seeing objects around the right Pad area. And I'm
kind of a believer that, you know, maybe that right path, and
not just because it's in my own state, but maybe right Pad is more
of a central area where this stuff is being held at when they had to
tick for it. It just comes up too many times, and you know
it has to have something going on there. I've always been fascinated with that
l I and as a kid, going back in the sixties, I remember
talking to one of my buddies whose brother was a security about it right pat
on the base itself, and he was telling his younger brother about the fact
that there was an area down it if they were told to kill anybody if
they would have got inside of this building, And it made me wonder what
that building was now a these years later. Was it something maybe military related
or who knows. Maybe it goes back to something being hidden down there out
of public size, right right. So you just talked a minute ago about
Chinese lantern. That's another headache. The hoax, the videos on you Tube,
that's another headache. Now we have drones coming on strong, and I
think that's going to make things even more tough. Do you have do you
have? I know there's a lot of toy drones out there that someone could
possibly mistake for something, but do you hear about drones at all? Yes?
To do it. We've had several potsmen in for Ohio that you know.
The investigator's opinion was, where we're seeing a drone. I had one
come in from northern United Kingdom and the witness admitted me a video where you
could see an object growing up besides the church steeple. It went up several
hundred feet almost instantaneously, covered there for about five minutes without any motion whatsoever,
had a fairly intense light on it, and dropped exactly the way it
came back up after about five minutes. When I questioned a witness on it
if anybody was flying drones in that region, he really got hot. He
says, I thought new fund was a credible organization, said, He says,
all you're trying to do is discredit what I saw. I said,
no, I'm just trying to see if we can find a logical answer.
First. I'm not saying that's what it is, but I'm looking for alimiting
the nun. Well, he says, well, nobody flies him around here,
so that's it. He said, Well, I'll check it out.
Several days later email me back and said, Nope, nobody flies him.
Absolutely not. Well, I did my own research, and even though I'm
three thousand miles away, two thousand miles away, I found, first of
all, a secondary angle of the video. That same night, they had
a fireworks display going on in the region you're at. Somebody was flying the
drone to film the fireworks. Secondly, he said, nobody in the region
had a drone. Well, he was in a town called her Head,
and I could make all sorts of jokes about that, which I won't,
okay, but in this case, you go down. This is basically where
he lived that out of his flat, and about two hundred feet from his
flat is his hobby shop that sells drones, helicopters and all sorts of little
vehicles like that, and they had a great website where they'd got all over
the country, and I really wanted to get sarcastic and say on the way
to the pub, you know, when you're heading down there some night,
you know, kind of look over your left hand side and wave high to
him in a hobby shop as they're selling their drones. But you know,
you can't get like that with a person. You have to be respectful.
So you know, I just said, you know, hey, this is
what my findings are. Unfortunately like it to bad. You know, I'm
sorry, you know, but without a doubt that one was a drone.
I also had an aerial them from over London that they were flying drones out
doing some sort of a maybe mapping surveillance of the downtown London, of the
area where they don't commercial stuff at. But you could tell it when you
blew the image up, mean actually had it. It was extremely high quality
image by the way that the person sent and once you magnified it because you
see exactly what it was. But you're right, that is going to be
a major problem in ongoing years, and you'll probably find more restrictions on roans
around certain areas, especially airports things like that. Yeah, they really have
to. They really have to figure out how to map the traffic out on
how all that's going to work. And you know, Amazon has an idea
of delivering packages and you know, I mean, these things will happen eventually.
It just all has to be figured out. And meanwhile, though you
know people are calling in reports, it makes it harder and harder for an
investigator. I'm sure it does. I mean, when you get let's say
thirty forty reports in a month, you've got, in this case, ten
investigators and we've got ninety days. Once a case comes in to close the
case down, the workload can build up substantial. I mean we may have
to be driving out to different witnesses locations, maybe not one trip, maybe
mobile trips, the internet research trying to find out there's a plausible exclamation.
Was it aircraft? Maybe they solve venus. I mean we're getting that right
now this time the year again. But why you know, we try to
tie up our time and especially you know, they cost us money in the
process, and we really love to dedicate you know, as much time as
possible these extremely interesting cases out there, rather than being distracted by somebody,
you know, just trying to pull a hose. Yeah, it really muddies
the water. Well, do you have a website? We're just about out
of time here. Do you have a website? Yes, we do.
The website is called Mufonohio dot com and we post a lot of our events
that we've got going on this year. As a matter of fact, it
can't do a little promotion here. We've got Ohio Lufon conference coming in June,
and it's gonna be the first weekend of June. And we're fortunate to
have James Fox coming in, who did two fantastic documentaries. I know what
I saw him out of the Blue. He's gonna be one of our feature
speakers along with Nick red Friends coming in. He just is releasing the brand
new book he's gonna be talking about. And then we've got a third individual
speaking that day. Who's Terry Ray, who's a field investigator from Pennsylvania.
Oh, is he the one on the Orbes? Yes he is. Okay,
Yeah, I'm trying to reach him actually. Anyway, thanks so much
for being on the show today. I really appreciate it. All Right,
everyone, I have some bad news for you. The internet is down,
there's high winds where I'm at. I was not able to do the live
show part two, so Chip is probably going to be on next week,
and again I apologize for that. So that's the end of the show.
And I apologize to the supporters for not being able to put up the full
two hour show. I mean, no one really wants to just listen to
me talk for a full hour. I don't think so. Anyway, again
I apologize. Internet was down. We had trouble at the Dark Matter Radio
network as well because a computer went down, so it was one of those
nights. Anyway, I want to thank Alejandro Rojas for the news, and
I also want to thank our guests Tom Wortman, and after that, I
want to thank Terry Lloyd Whitehouse and Bruce Renair for our music. If you
go on our website PODCASTUFO dot com, you'll see a new blog posted by
Michael Lauk and that is on comic books and UFOs. And I also want
to thank Peggy Shunning for managing our Facebook page. Remember to like us on
Facebook for all the latest UFO news. And again, if I could talk
an hour and make a lot of sense and make it interesting. I certainly
would give it a try, but I just I can't really think of enough
to say to fill up a whole hour. And again I do apologize for
the supporter. I will somehow try to make that up to you. Maybe
have an extra long show. So this is Martin Willis saying, keep your
eyes to the sky as