WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.520 --> 00:00:05.519 It's one on top of two wherever you go, So put down the hod, 2 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:09.080 clean off the trough and grab a brew. Because is he the brickies 3 00:00:09.160 --> 00:00:13.160 on site from Fix Radio. We're dropping knowledge, hints, tips and big 4 00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:18.440 name guests from the trade, just hopefully not the bricks. This is the 5 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:26.239 Bricklaying Show from Fix Radio. Welcome to the brick lay and Podcast. I'm 6 00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:30.120 your host. Is he the brickey? On this episode Albert talking some bricklayers 7 00:00:30.120 --> 00:00:34.399 about how we win good work, find decent leads, as well as how 8 00:00:34.439 --> 00:00:40.759 we market our business and how to approach quoting jobs. Enjoy the show. 9 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:47.000 This is the Bricklaying Show from Fix Radio. Join me now once again is 10 00:00:47.119 --> 00:00:50.359 Ash Francis from the Bricklayers Social Club. Hi, Ash, are you doing 11 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:53.159 today? Hello you good, Bud? Yeah? All good, thank you. 12 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:57.719 So what we're talking about today is winning jobs, winning quotes and making 13 00:00:57.759 --> 00:01:00.880 sure you build up a good reputation as a bricklayer so then you have a 14 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:04.760 constant float off work. So when having a brick layer come into your house 15 00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:08.519 for the first time to quote work, what are some of the good practices 16 00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:14.239 to have or what you have in place that make you more likely to win 17 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:18.920 the job. I think, for a start, it's how you present yourself. 18 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:23.120 So everyone's going to take you on face value when you get to that 19 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:26.200 door and they answered the door, Yeah, it's going to be like, 20 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:29.760 okay, So if you turn up in a pair of tracks with holes in 21 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:34.200 it and you look a bit rough, and it's going to be don't really 22 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:37.599 if I want to let you in my house, you might still be Yeah, 23 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:40.000 I'll say, you know, you don't want to judge your book by 24 00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:47.680 its cover, but you're always exactly So I think firstly, your presentation of 25 00:01:47.719 --> 00:01:52.079 yourself. Yeah, like a pair of dreams of Polo with your company name 26 00:01:52.120 --> 00:01:57.040 on it, so you look the part for a start. Yeah, And 27 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:00.480 obviously so I've got to that stage. Is like a website and a good 28 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:07.760 online presence obviously help with a good portfolio of work to show what you've done 29 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:12.120 as long as you have been robbing pictures and it's all your own work that 30 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:16.800 you can kind of talk about brilliant, And then I think it's just I 31 00:02:16.840 --> 00:02:22.960 think it's kind of remaining you know, when you're having that conversation is yeah, 32 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:27.039 you need to just be quite quite clear and transparent. If they're offering 33 00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:31.000 you additional bits of work you can't do we're not confident in doing. It's 34 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:35.199 just kind of being quite clear on that table when you're having a conversation with 35 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:38.840 clients, say yeah, I can't do this, I can do this. 36 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:43.080 Look, here's an example of what I've done in the past, is that 37 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:49.199 here's an idea here, and kind of bounce back and forth with your clients. 38 00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:52.159 Yeah, no, definitely, because it's very army. I've done this 39 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:54.400 before in the past and I've regretted it. You go to a client's house 40 00:02:54.439 --> 00:02:58.240 and you're there to win the job. So when they say, oh, 41 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:00.240 when we've got this, and we've got this, and we've got that, 42 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:01.439 and it's things you're not quite confident in, and you go, yeah, 43 00:03:01.479 --> 00:03:05.039 i'll see what I can do. As soon as you say I can see 44 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:07.919 what I can do, that's basically a green light to them saying this bloke 45 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:10.759 is going to end up doing that. So, like you just said, 46 00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:15.280 being quite clear and concise saying listen, I'm here to do this, this, 47 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:17.199 this, and this. If you do want something else doing, perhaps 48 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:20.759 we can speak about that in the future, but the moment, I'm here 49 00:03:20.759 --> 00:03:23.560 to do this job right here, for you, yeah, because I mean 50 00:03:24.039 --> 00:03:28.879 it can get messy. And the problem is if you go there and you're 51 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:31.960 talking about we use a garden wall as an example, We're here to price 52 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:39.120 up this big six meter garden wall, but mister Jones has got a broken 53 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:43.960 wall in his back garden that you want through building as well. It's like, 54 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:46.719 well, I'm here to price up this garden wall here, let's price 55 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:52.479 up this garden wall, and then let's talk about the wall with rather back 56 00:03:52.560 --> 00:03:55.159 after, so you kind of keep it clear because on what I find with 57 00:03:55.759 --> 00:04:00.599 customers is sometimes they'll think that you're going to end up price in the two 58 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:02.400 together. Yeah, and then they're going to get a bit confused. But 59 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:04.639 it's like, well, no, that's a that's an additional bit of work. 60 00:04:04.840 --> 00:04:09.719 Yeah, no, definitely, And that's only as an example. I 61 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:13.319 mean, variations are are normally a lot more complicated than the sake of a 62 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:18.480 garden well. Yeah, for to make it easier that it's just to be 63 00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:24.279 very clear if your customers win quoting and pricing, yeah, definitely. And 64 00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:29.360 as well, while speaking about quotes and things like that, people are often 65 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:32.279 like a hard quote, Now what do you do? Do you quote or 66 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:36.399 do you give a estimate, like and not a guestimate, a rough Do 67 00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:39.959 you give them a rough figure saying I think this is what it's going to 68 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:42.480 cost, or do you give them a full on quote, this is what 69 00:04:42.519 --> 00:04:46.399 it's going to cost down to the last penny. So verbally, because when 70 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:49.079 you've got when you've done this for a while and you've got experience, you 71 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:54.439 can kind of throw out ballpark figures. Yeah, and that's what I would 72 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:59.079 typically do in the presence of the customer, have the conversation, because normal 73 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:00.720 it will come up and come so, so it's going to cost and you 74 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:04.319 go, well, I don't something similar to mean, you can baby showing 75 00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:10.000 the picture of what you've done in the past, but this costs seven and 76 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:15.639 a half thousand pounds and then plus materials. But yeah, yours is slightly 77 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:18.199 different in this way, and we're going to be doing that that that's to 78 00:05:18.199 --> 00:05:23.040 give you an idea of where we're going to be with me. Then when 79 00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:29.040 it comes to the quote, I like to give give as much information as 80 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:31.480 I feel comfortable to give them, so I would kind of want to price 81 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:36.199 it up. I would tell them X amount of bricks that I'll be using, 82 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:40.120 but I wouldn't. Specially if I knew what the brick was going to 83 00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:45.720 be, I wouldn't necessarily say what the brick is, because that then gives 84 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:48.360 them the opportunity to then pass that information onto another brick layer. Now, 85 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:51.480 I think a nice little golden ticket that you've got if you know what brick 86 00:05:51.639 --> 00:05:55.839 is, if you've gone through the effort of finding out what the brick is, 87 00:05:55.920 --> 00:06:00.399 what the mortar is, all them kind of things, that's sure from 88 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:03.839 the risk. So when quote and I would try and retain that information if 89 00:06:03.879 --> 00:06:06.920 I could, right, Yeah, I just have that like little secret so 90 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:10.240 they can't go to other people or the brick layers and say, listen, 91 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:14.079 I have three five hundred bricks of these heathers today. What's your price? 92 00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:17.519 Yeah. With the labor side of it, I try not to kind of 93 00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:21.439 break it down to the hour, or I'd kind of just give a round 94 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:27.439 figure for labor that wouldn't be too specific on labor, because then what could 95 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:30.160 happen is, say farther which you've got to take a lad off the site 96 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:34.040 for whatever reason, they could turn around and say, well, he was 97 00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:39.759 only on site for two hours. But we know that when we're pricing up 98 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:42.120 a job. That is the job, That is the price, whether I 99 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:45.399 have ten men on the job or I have two men on. If I 100 00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:47.360 say it's going to get done in ten weeks for this price, that's how 101 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:49.439 it's going to get built, and that's how it's going to get done. 102 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:54.720 Yeah, No, definitely. So yeah, I think some information you've got 103 00:06:54.759 --> 00:07:00.839 to be clear on and others other stuff you've kind of got to back just 104 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:03.399 for your own sake from a company point of view. No, No, 105 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:09.480 you're right. Well, going again back to quoting, Obviously we're brick layers. 106 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:13.079 We're not businessmen. So how can brick layers make sure that they are 107 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:16.839 putting in a decent price but also allowing enough profit for themselves after the job, 108 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:20.560 Because it's all right working for wages, but we're not in it for 109 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:24.120 that obviously. We all want to make a bit more money. So any 110 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:28.519 little bits of information you can share with us, that'd be amazing. Yeah. 111 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:30.560 So, as a brick layer, if you joined a brick layer soce 112 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:35.240 club a loot plug there, you've got hundreds of brick layers in there and 113 00:07:35.720 --> 00:07:42.040 conversating, just having that conversation in amongst the community that you're part of that 114 00:07:42.079 --> 00:07:46.199 will start to give you an idea of what the going rates are. Then 115 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:48.240 that's not gospel. You can work what you want with that. Yeah, 116 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:54.120 but that will help them give you a benchmark of what is been what prices 117 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:58.240 are going out for for peri spare meet or brickwork or blockwork. So you 118 00:07:58.279 --> 00:08:01.279 know you're not you know you're putting yoursel health in the right ballpark figure. 119 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:05.079 And then it seems like you if you've gone out and bought a mixer, 120 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:09.519 a petrol saw, you've got a van, you need to be pricing that 121 00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:13.600 into your quote. You need to be factoring that cost in there a preliminary 122 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:18.759 cost. If your wife is what your missus at home and she's kind of 123 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:24.560 doing something, you're adding in work, your phone bill, your internet, 124 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:28.160 all these little costs need to be put into your quote. That could be 125 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:33.759 a very small amount. Yeah, So your mixer and your petrol saw and 126 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:37.120 your phone, you've got to pay for the upkeep of running your business. 127 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:43.519 So you should look at what your overhead is for a year, per a 128 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:48.000 week, per day and add that cost, add that cost into your quote, 129 00:08:50.840 --> 00:09:00.279 and then look at adding percentages onto your Yeah, good conversation. Yeah, 130 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:03.159 no, definitely. Well, I had a good conversation before. I 131 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:05.000 was just working on day work and things like that, and this lad was 132 00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:11.159 like it was when we had the meetup for the Bricklayer Social Club event summer 133 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:15.080 just gone. Super trow end up speaking to an older gentleman. It's like, 134 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:18.879 you need to start costing in what it actually costs you to turn that 135 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:22.360 van on in the morning and get to sight, because you're not thinking about 136 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:26.960 all these overheads, your insurances, your fuel, everything. So he said, 137 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:28.639 when you quote a job, now, he said, exactly what you 138 00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:31.799 said. Find out what it costs each year to run your company, whether 139 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:35.559 that's fuel and everything like that altogether, divide it by fifty two, which 140 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.159 is fifty two weeks in a year. He says. Every single quote starts 141 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:43.240 with that amount. So let's say it cost let I don't know, fifty 142 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:46.480 quid a week to have your company up and run in you know, fuel 143 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:50.200 insurances. He says, that's how you start your quote. And if you 144 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:52.600 think the job is going to run let's say for four weeks, that's an 145 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:56.519 extra two hundred pound you need to add on to that job. So it's 146 00:09:56.559 --> 00:10:01.279 accounting for everything exactly. And then I also well, sorry, I'm just 147 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:05.639 jumping in here. So what I started doing as well when pricing jobs, 148 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:09.279 Now I whack on twenty percent on top of everything, and I put decent 149 00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:11.360 prices in any way, Like I don't undercut people. I put a price 150 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:15.879 in what I think is decent, and then I'll whack twenty percent on because 151 00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:18.279 that's what I've started doing that and it's it's not gone too bad, although 152 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:22.519 some people do turn their nose up. But it's kind of business, isn't 153 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:26.559 it. It is business, And I mean one thing I've always done, 154 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:35.080 I've I've veried a profit on my my labor, for my work, like 155 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:39.240 the workmanship, with any profit on that. I'm not one threading profit onto 156 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:43.919 materials on the procurement of materials. Some people do that will be anywhere between 157 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:48.480 five and ten percent, but that's that's that's down to the individual company on 158 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:52.279 how they want to do it. Yeah, yeah, I know people who 159 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:56.279 do that. But I feel like sometimes it can scare clients away. You 160 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:58.559 know, when you're wacking on extra twenty percent, let's say, on all 161 00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:01.879 your materials on a job, it's a bit too much, I feel. 162 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:03.840 And if you if you're only small time. There's no really need to do 163 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:11.279 this there no. And then I also think as well, it comes down 164 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:16.159 to it depends on the payment terms of that project and how you quote with 165 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:20.080 it. If it's four weeks, there's got to be a cash flow and 166 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:24.000 then you can all of these things have to be looked at when you're quoting 167 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:26.639 up the job. Is the length of time, the overhead, costs, 168 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:33.159 the resources, the materials, things like your toilets, your site, toilets, 169 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:39.240 equipment on site. All of these things and the time it takes to 170 00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:46.639 organize that need to be costed for Ash, Thank you so much today for 171 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:50.600 all your information. I greatly appreciate it myself, and I'm sure our listeners 172 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:56.639 do as well. Thank you. Chis Fixed Radio Time to crack on. 173 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:03.600 Joining me this week once again is James Roading. Today we're talking about winning 174 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:07.559 jobs and quoting jobs as brit layers and as a company. Hi James how 175 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:11.960 Ai today? Yeah? Thank you? How yeah? Really well? Thank 176 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:16.919 you so James jumping straight in. How do you find most of your work 177 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:22.000 nowadays? Yeah? So we've with our social media pages are quite good. 178 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:26.679 Really, We've got Facebook and Instagram and then we're able to post up previous 179 00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:31.519 jobs and stuff and then get if you get good reviews and stuff and you 180 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:35.240 get a lot of recommendations and stuff like that. Yeah, no, recommendations 181 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:39.159 are the best way. I think word of math is a really decent way 182 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:41.200 to get a lot of work because it's nice having an Instagram page and a 183 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:45.759 Facebook page and people often look at your work and go, oh, yeah, 184 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:46.960 he's quite good. We'll get his email address and things like that. 185 00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:50.480 But you know, when you have friends of family or things like that and 186 00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:56.080 they've had work done by you and then they recommend you, that's the best 187 00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:01.080 way because they can actually already see the quality of your work. Yeah, 188 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:03.360 that's right. They know you as well, don't they, And yeah, 189 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:07.960 pat on stuff. Yeah, it's always the best way. On So, 190 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:11.360 when you give a price for a job, do you give a quote or 191 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:15.399 an estimate? And which one do you prefer? Because I know a lot 192 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:18.480 of people like giving or I know a lot of clients like receiving a solid 193 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:22.720 quote, but sometimes it's hard to do. So which one do you go 194 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:28.679 by? I'd probably prefer doing an actual quote, just because they offer a 195 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:33.519 fixed price, you know exactly what you're given to the customer. Yeah. 196 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:37.399 Plus if you can break if you can break down the quotes a little bit. 197 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:41.519 For example, say you've priced priced two radiators in the new extension, 198 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:46.919 Yeah, just make sure you list like their standard right radiators. And obviously 199 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:52.000 a lot of nowadays they go for like vertical rads or something fancy, don't 200 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:54.279 they. Yeah, yeah, And then you can always just say that's an 201 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:58.559 added cost and all that. So quotes are probably better you sort of know 202 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:01.759 where you are. Well, I'll tell you what you know, because I 203 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:05.039 know that you dig out your own footings and things like that. So it's 204 00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:09.080 easy to put a price in for square meter of brickwork, block work, 205 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:13.399 insulation, DPC, all that stuff. I find really easy to quote for 206 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:16.600 because you have an exact figure or a price sheet right in front of you. 207 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:20.120 But when you go for a dig, you actually never know what you're 208 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:24.720 going to find. So I standardly price it's a one meter dig by six 209 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:30.159 hundred mil. And then if there's anything deeper than that, I say to 210 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:33.960 V decided because you never know what you're going to find. You could have 211 00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:37.559 a conifer tree next to you and you wouldn't didn't realize that you need to 212 00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:41.519 dig down like, let's say two point five meters. Do you do something 213 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:46.000 similar there when you're digging out footons? Exactly the same, Yeah, exactly 214 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:48.279 the same, because build and control come along, don't they, And they 215 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:50.559 can tell you, they really tell you what you need to do. Really 216 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:52.600 at the end of the day. Yeah, you're right. They can make 217 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:56.519 you dig two meters two point five meters And if you don't, if you 218 00:14:56.519 --> 00:15:01.559 don't put that on the quote, then you could it could backfire, couldn't 219 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:03.039 it with the customer? And yeah, one hundred percent. I mean I've 220 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:07.840 had one not so long ago where us digging a foot in no trees or 221 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:11.440 anything. I thought it was all you know, virgin ground, end up 222 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:15.840 digging and came across a massive well which had to be filled with seven Cuba 223 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:20.279 concrete. Yeah, yeah, not fun, is it? You know? 224 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:24.639 Swings and roundabout swings and random out. So what top tips would you give 225 00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:31.000 regarding communication with potential customers? Be yourself, you go around there. Don't 226 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:35.720 try and be your salesman so you can make it into like a footballer's palace 227 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:39.919 or something like that. Best to just set clear expectations, be approachable, 228 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:43.399 polite, Maybe take your shoes off you know Bitcurtsey when you go into their 229 00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:48.600 one percent. And then I've also found like quick quick responses work better as 230 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:52.759 well. So if you if you get the quick the quote over as quick 231 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:56.080 as possible instead of like a four weeks five weeks people are waiting, you 232 00:15:56.679 --> 00:16:00.879 normally get a good response from that as well. So yeah, yeah, 233 00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:03.720 because obviously it's like when you send someone a message, you want to respond 234 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:06.840 straight away, don't you. And I think everyone wants that nowadays with how 235 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:10.639 f thein is and instant gratification on Instagram and TikTok and all that. So 236 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:14.240 when people ask for a quote, they want something back, let's say within 237 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:18.080 within at least two days, I'd say yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 238 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:22.120 definitely, yeah, I'd say so too. So how do you stand 239 00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:25.799 out in your local area? And do you see other firms around you as 240 00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:29.639 competition or do you see them more as just yeah, basically stand out. 241 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:33.480 We'd just like to focus on our reputation, just make sure we do a 242 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:38.279 good job also, like keeping the neighbors, customers happy, keeping the sight 243 00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:42.559 clean, tidy, being polite, careful with your parking as well because people 244 00:16:42.679 --> 00:16:45.759 like around it. Yeah. Yeah, I've had no end of complaints. 245 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:49.279 You know, when I bring Sobby's on and then people start complaints say, 246 00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:52.960 oh man, the streets full of vans and things like that. No, 247 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:56.240 you're quite right there, that's right, And then it would just lead on 248 00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:59.480 like the neighbors would be like, oh, they were really good. Actually 249 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:03.720 they kept to their bit and they could pass on your number. You don't 250 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:07.680 know what's going to come around in the future, you know, if you 251 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:11.480 do three years time or something, Yeah, that's it. I mean handing 252 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:12.559 out your number, you might not get work, like you just said, 253 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:15.599 straight away. But in a couple of years ago, there's that dead plight 254 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:19.519 builder did a really nice, clean job. All the lads weren't swearing on 255 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:23.960 site. Let's give him a call. CV's about how do you go about 256 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:30.680 vetting a customer, because I've often worked for clients who have thought initially were 257 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:33.440 quite nice and things like that and then have turned out to be an absolute 258 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:38.759 nightmare. So how do you go about trying to quote for a job but 259 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:41.960 you actually don't really want the job, and you think, I actually don't 260 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:45.920 really like this client and I don't want to work for them. Yeah, 261 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:52.519 it's happened. Yeah, normally, what I've found is normally when you're outside, 262 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:55.200 say you're doing a job, and you're outside of their house and you're 263 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:59.920 doing you're doing the brick work, and you're not really they're absolutely great, 264 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:03.160 they're fine, they're no problems. It's sort of when you sort of go 265 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:06.599 inside and you end up that's going to take walls down and steals, they 266 00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:08.759 just seem to get get a bit funny then, don't they. Yeah, 267 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:12.000 they really do, because you are knocking about someone's house. I've had it 268 00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:18.119 recently. I've put three what eight meter steals in someone's house and I said, 269 00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:21.599 listen, and we're going to be coming in. I gave him notice. 270 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:23.319 I gave him about five Now, I gave Hi about three days notice 271 00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:26.200 plus the weekend. So yeah, five days. I said, listen. 272 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:29.960 On Monday, we're going to be turning up. All the steals are here, 273 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:32.759 all the equipments here. We're going to start cutting. We're going to 274 00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:36.400 start taking down walls. We'll start knocking through your house, propping up all 275 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:41.599 your ceilings. Ideally, it'll be lovely if you could empty the cupboards and 276 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:47.000 sort out your kitchen, just so nothing's like in our way and nothing you 277 00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:51.440 like gets damaged and now I turn up on Monday, the kitchens are absolutely 278 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:56.160 rammed. Everyone's having breakfast sat around, they're dining table. So yeah, 279 00:18:56.200 --> 00:19:00.680 that's a pain, an't it. Yeah, you just have to be professional. 280 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:03.480 Really, don't you fight your town? Maybe you don't want to fall 281 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:07.119 out for the sake of it. Yeah, definitely, And especially like you 282 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:08.759 said, when he gets towards the end of the job, they're probably a 283 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:11.839 bit tired of having all the work done, so the messiest and hardest part 284 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:18.359 is not through. So making sure you're still like courteous and quite respectful all 285 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:21.480 the way through the job is probably one of the best ways to continue winning 286 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:23.839 work and things like that. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah sad 287 00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:26.880 Well, James, thank you so much for joining me today. I've had 288 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:32.039 a fantastic chat with you, so I do appreciate you coming on today. 289 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:36.920 Yeah. Thanks. Thanks. Radio The Brick Laying Show podcast with is He 290 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:42.680 the Bricky joining me finally is Off the Tools founder and trades business coach Wayne 291 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:45.960 Vettis Are you all right there? Wayne? Hi? Ah, thanks for 292 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:48.720 having me again. How I'm doing Yeah, really good? Thank you really 293 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:53.200 good. So Wayne, what advice would you give to a brick laying business 294 00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:57.400 to stand out from the rest and to win work. Bro. The biggest 295 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:03.279 thing for me to stand out is is to be different. And being different 296 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:08.279 can come in different in lots of different forms obviously, but as as a 297 00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:11.599 given you're going to be good at your job, yeah, as you're going 298 00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:14.480 out on your own, So I'm not going to wake time talking about that. 299 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:18.960 So to stand out amongst a busy crowd, you need to look different, 300 00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:23.599 you need to act differently, So looking at how you communicate with customers. 301 00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:26.279 You know, we all know the cliche builder that turns up at the 302 00:20:26.359 --> 00:20:30.599 job, you know, with the builders barm hanging out and all of that 303 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:34.160 normal stuff, scruffy looking, you know, try to try to distance yourself 304 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:38.480 from that sort of more cliche builder. I did, yeah, stereotypical builders. 305 00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:41.920 Yeah, I know exactly what you say. It's nice to be different. 306 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:45.119 Smart, yeah yeah, yeah, definitely looking smart when you go to 307 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:48.039 quotes. Obviously, it's a messy train, gosh. You know, you're 308 00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:52.039 not going to be able to big keep clean while you're working, but you 309 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.079 can do little things like have a clean pair of boots in the van, 310 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:57.680 a clean jumper to put on for when you when you finished your work and 311 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:02.960 you might be going out to quote for the for the next job. And 312 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:10.359 more importantly, most customers fear being let down. So if you can reassure 313 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:15.440 them, if you can build into the conversations you're having at the early stages 314 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:18.720 that you're reliable. Obviously you've got to meet meet these standards, of course, 315 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:22.480 but mention it because if you're if you're talking about it, that will 316 00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:26.920 give the customer confidence that do you know what this guy knows what he's on 317 00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:30.640 about, this girl knows what he's on about. So, yeah, you've 318 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:33.720 got to try to be that bit different and that bit better than than those 319 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:37.440 around you. And I don't mean in the physical sense of building the brick 320 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:41.119 wall or building the extension. Is everything around that, yeah, it basically 321 00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:45.680 Yeah, it's basically judging a book by its cover, and you want to 322 00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:51.640 look the best that book can look one hundred percent. So obviously networking is 323 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:55.160 really important to get a lot of new jobs in and to gain new customers. 324 00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:57.640 So what's one of the best ways to network in your local area? 325 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:03.720 And how can you network efficiently? So I see that there has been two 326 00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:08.839 types of networking, So I'm going to talk about the more traditional networking that 327 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.480 some of you may have heard of. There's lots of big groups and local 328 00:22:12.519 --> 00:22:18.000 groups that you can go where you basically sit in the room and you're surrounded 329 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:22.599 by other business owners in the local area and you'll discuss what you do and 330 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:26.000 how you can help each other. So that can be very, very lucrative 331 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.599 as long as you put the effort in. You know, as with anything, 332 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:33.079 nothing comes for free. You've got to be participating. You've got to 333 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:37.920 be really part of that community if you decide to go down that more traditional 334 00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:44.000 networking route. But what excites me about networking is the more untapped network in 335 00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:47.759 which I don't hear a lot of people talk about. And I believe this 336 00:22:47.799 --> 00:22:52.599 will really help sort of the listeners here is you're most of you guys and 337 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.440 girls are going to be in a building sight or are surrounded by other trades. 338 00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:02.559 Okay, those other trades are doing work customers that probably need your services 339 00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:07.119 too, So I call it internal networking. And what I mean by that 340 00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:11.000 is if you're working somewhere and there's a chippy and he's a good lad or 341 00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:14.680 good girl and you know, does a great job, speak to them, 342 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.039 tell them that you're looking for more work. Now ask them if they can 343 00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:22.480 recommend a couple of clients to you, you'll reciprocate. And if you can 344 00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:29.160 build out a sort of mini network of skilled trades people that are all helping 345 00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:33.279 each other. And if the brick layers at a job and the customer mentions 346 00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:37.720 that they might need a sparky, and you've got a sparky that is part 347 00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:40.799 of that mini community that you're trying to build, you can recommend them and 348 00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:45.839 then vice versa. And it's so powerful if you can get the right sort 349 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:48.880 of group of people. You don't want too many, but you don't want 350 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:52.240 too little. And everyone has to sort of participate in it, because you 351 00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:56.640 know, otherwise it becomes one sided. But if you can find sort of 352 00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:00.640 five to six people from different trades and you all sort of commit, and 353 00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:03.960 you're all you're all decent people and want to do decent work and and grow 354 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:07.799 a business, it costs nothing. Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, 355 00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:11.000 I mean I've been doing that for years, subconsciously doing it. You 356 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:14.559 know, I know good plumbers. I say, listen, use this plumber, 357 00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:15.880 used them all of my jobs. And then I'll get a phone call 358 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:19.599 from so and so saying, oh, this plumber's recommended you. I don't. 359 00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:22.960 I just use him because he's a good lad. I didn't even really 360 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:26.200 think about it for myself. But like you just said, having that group 361 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:30.000 of people who are recommending you to all their clients because they're going to have 362 00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:33.559 five clients, and then you know so and so and so on. So 363 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:37.319 it's a good way to network just by having some mates in different trays to 364 00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:41.279 recommend you to other people. Definitely, and yes, one hundred percent agree 365 00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:47.480 it happened subconsciously for a lot of people. But the real power in it 366 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:51.000 is if you make it conscious. So if you if you bring it to 367 00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:53.839 the front of your mind and you and really think about it and find the 368 00:24:53.920 --> 00:25:00.759 right people that will assist everybody, then that collaboration between all the different trains 369 00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:03.839 is very, very powerful. I've seen it time and time again with the 370 00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:08.319 clients that I work with, where when they start to form these relationships and 371 00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:11.680 sort of not formalized I don't I don't want like you don't want it too 372 00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:17.359 official or anything, but you need to sort of have a gentleman's gentleman, 373 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:22.039 Yeah, you know we're going to push you. You push up. Yeah, 374 00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:23.599 and then you know, you can always incentivize it. I give my 375 00:25:25.079 --> 00:25:27.119 laves like a little drink, even if it's fifty quid hundred quid, you 376 00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:30.799 know, and then that just gets you know, more and more. So 377 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:34.119 oil on the machine, I call it. Yeah, that's it. That's 378 00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:37.039 it. So nowadays a lot of things are all online. Note, we 379 00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:41.440 advertise online, We put everything on social media. Do you think it's really 380 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:45.759 important for brit lay and businesses to have a strong online presence? Yes and 381 00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:49.240 no. So I'm going to contradict myself a little bit here. So one 382 00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:52.480 side of my book brain says, yes, you know, we're in twenty 383 00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:56.519 twenty three. You know, you need to be having all your socials up 384 00:25:56.559 --> 00:26:02.000 to date, you need to be having work did out, their content put 385 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:08.759 out. But realistically, how many customers are actually watching that compared to how 386 00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:12.839 many other trades people that are watching it? Yeah, no, I'm exactly 387 00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:18.039 saying. Obviously I have YouTube and Instagram and a lot of other trades people 388 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:22.839 watch my videos. Barely any clients watching videos, I think in all this 389 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:26.119 time, I mean I've got quite a few jobs from social media, but 390 00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:30.440 a lot of it's from word of math and not from Instagram and YouTube and 391 00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:34.960 actually actually things like that. Yeah, I think it's you should be doing 392 00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:40.480 something and if you enjoy it, then great, jump in and really go 393 00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:44.359 through it. You'll see. Over the last sort of four to five years, 394 00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:48.599 there's been a huge growth in what people call influencers, and these are 395 00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:52.559 just trades people that are showcasing what they do and how they do it. 396 00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:56.640 And yes, definitely if you enjoy doing that and you can enjoy putting that 397 00:26:56.680 --> 00:27:00.680 content out, crack on. If you don't enjoying it, then I still 398 00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:03.559 think there's that you should be doing something. Yeah, even if you just 399 00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:07.079 posting pictures off your work. You know, this is a wall we go 400 00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:11.640 you know, so and so exactly. No, definitely, So what about 401 00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:14.759 once you've won the job, once you've won a quote, how can we 402 00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:18.480 make sure that we are keeping you know, clients and customers happy and try 403 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:23.480 to meet their expectations. So I've been in the construction industry twenty years over 404 00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:27.799 twenty years now, and for me, if I had to sort of boil 405 00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:33.640 it down to one thing that sort of separates the good from the bad and 406 00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:40.960 the good from the average, it's communication. So we we encourage that like 407 00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:45.920 when as soon as that customer enters our ecosystem, So whether they've just phoned 408 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:51.680 us, whether they've emailed us, whether they've dropped us an inquiry for our 409 00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:55.920 website, we want to communicate with them to the best of our ability, 410 00:27:56.039 --> 00:28:00.039 So we encourage people to if you've booked an appointment, send a reminder. 411 00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:03.079 There's systems out there that automate this, but if you haven't got the funds 412 00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:07.960 available to look at systems quite yet, you can do it simply yourself by 413 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:12.720 making sure you're organized, having a decent electronic diary. Google Calendar is completely 414 00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:17.119 free, and have this. You can do everything I'm going to talk about 415 00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:22.279 on it on that. So book your appointments in give time frame. Never 416 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.440 give exact times, because you're giving yourself for rooms to fail if you try 417 00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:29.079 and tell someone you're going to be there at five, when you know the 418 00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:30.880 traffic and the school runs and everything are going to be coming out. So 419 00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:37.920 communicate the timeframe so the customer has the expectation that it's not an exact time. 420 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.400 Text when you're on the way when you've been maybe drop them another email 421 00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:45.160 just saying thank you for taking the time out to go through your job. 422 00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:48.599 We'll be in touch in the next couple of days with a quote. So 423 00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:52.240 again you're setting that expectation that the customer isn't just sat there wondering, oh 424 00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:56.200 is this guy getting back to me? Am I going to hear anything. 425 00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:00.960 If you set out the intentions to the customers, not only you be exceeding 426 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:04.359 what most people do, you're just building good relationships with that level. So 427 00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:11.240 communication at every step of the way. If the weather's bad, get in 428 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:12.759 touch as soon as possible, and if you're not going to be there, 429 00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:15.680 if you're running late, just send a message to say that I'm going to 430 00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:19.480 be half an hour late. All of these small things are what the customer 431 00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:22.640 remembers. They really do make a difference. Like say, if I say 432 00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:26.319 to a client, oh, I'll be there for four o'clock, but there's 433 00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:27.599 loads of traffics, I'll give them a text to say, listen, mate, 434 00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:30.920 you know so and so, and I'll just be honest, loads of 435 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:33.039 traffic I'll be there at this time and just keep them up today, because 436 00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:37.960 you don't want people stood around or waiting in for their potential builder turn up. 437 00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:41.519 And it doesn't leave a good first impression. No, it definitely doesn't. 438 00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:45.079 And I always look at myself so like, if I'm sat at home 439 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:51.039 waiting for a delivery to turn up and there's no tracking link and there's no 440 00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:52.799 idea that it's going to come in the morning, in the afternoon, what 441 00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:57.240 time start, I'm just frustrated. I'm starting to get angry and annoyed with 442 00:29:57.319 --> 00:30:00.839 that company when all it would is a text message to say, right, 443 00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:03.559 your delivery will be out between two and four. All right, brilliant. 444 00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:06.880 I know where I am. I can crack on with my day. I 445 00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:11.000 don't have to think about it. I know that they're coming, and that's 446 00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:14.400 what If I'm like that with something, my customers are no different. We're 447 00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:18.160 all customers to something in our lives, aren't we? So now, one 448 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:22.160 hundred percent No, you could not be more right there, Wayne, Right 449 00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:23.559 now, just before I let you go, Wayne, can you just tell 450 00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:27.920 us about some of the services you offer with off the tools and do you 451 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:33.440 want to tell us a little bit about it? Yes? So they basically 452 00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:37.519 I come from a plumbing and heating background. I've been in that industry for 453 00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:42.880 over twenty years, and I decided that I wanted to start helping trades people 454 00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:48.440 grow businesses and get the infrastructure right in their business. So we do a 455 00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:53.279 range of different things, from one off meetings to twelve month programs where where 456 00:30:53.319 --> 00:30:59.359 you invest time, money and effort in becoming better at running a business, 457 00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:03.720 growing a bit business, expanding a business, whatever stage you're at, we 458 00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:07.680 can help. It's me, I say, wee loosely, it's me and 459 00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:10.720 my wife. My wife helps with a bit of admin, but you'll be 460 00:31:10.759 --> 00:31:15.079 working directly with me. Yeah, and the yeah, the purposes is that 461 00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:22.119 most trades people will spend anywhere between two to five years learning how to become 462 00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:26.400 a builder, how to become a bricklayer, how to become a plumber, 463 00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:30.079 whatever it might be. But we never, we never invest any time or 464 00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:33.480 money in how to become a business person. And that's where I step in. 465 00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:37.480 And then obviously there's other coaches as well. You know, I recommend 466 00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:41.200 that if you're if you're looking to grow a business, you should look to 467 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:47.319 have some support, some sort of coach or mentor that can help you avoid 468 00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:51.559 the obstacles where possible. Sometimes is they're unavoidable and you've got to go through 469 00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:56.039 them. But with a good coach you can learn some of the mistakes and 470 00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:00.799 avoid a lot of hardship. And it's a no brain. You wouldn't become 471 00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:04.880 a sparky without learning how to be a sparky. And unfortunately, in the 472 00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:08.319 business world, people become business people without learning how to be a business person. 473 00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:12.599 So enter off the Tools. If you want to find out more, 474 00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:15.759 head over to the website Off Thetools dot co dot uk. Ah, thank 475 00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:20.920 you so much for joining us today, Yuane. I really appreciate it my 476 00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:27.880 pleasure. Thanks for having me the builders station Biggs Radio. You can find 477 00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:31.279 loads of other great podcasts about the trade and construction at Fix Radio dot co 478 00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:35.279 dot UK. I hope that last couple of episodes have helped you out. 479 00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:37.559 I know I've definitely learned a few bits and bobs, so thank you so 480 00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:40.759 much for listening. I greatly appreciate it and I'll see you later.