WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:10.599 Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open Minds Radio is a UFO 2 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:16.399 news authority presenting evidence on the latest news regarding the UFO phenomena. Here's your 3 00:00:16.440 --> 00:00:25.199 host, Alejandro Roja, some trippy music man. Hello Alejandro, and you're 4 00:00:25.239 --> 00:00:32.000 listening to Open Minds Radio and I am once again honored to be in your 5 00:00:32.039 --> 00:00:39.399 presence and to share some wonderful UFO knowledge, debate and talk with you. 6 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:47.079 We have a perfect show for although hopefully you're not just like politics out and 7 00:00:47.240 --> 00:00:51.280 tired of all of this stuff. But we're talking politics tonight. We're talking 8 00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:57.759 most UFO and White House stuff and how politics is affected by UFOs and that 9 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:02.359 sort of thing. So we're not going to be talking about Newton Mint and 10 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:07.879 who whoever slept with or any of that kind of stuff that we're not gonna 11 00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:11.439 ask Jason if he's in an open relationship or anything like that. We're gonna 12 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:17.959 just talk UFOs. So we have Grant Cameron on who runs a site presidentialufo 13 00:01:18.079 --> 00:01:21.920 dot com. He's the best researcher when it comes to the White House and 14 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:26.280 UFOs. He's one of the best UFO researchers out there period. He's very 15 00:01:29.040 --> 00:01:34.159 meticulous in getting data. And of course we've talked about him lately because he 16 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:42.680 did a Freedom of Information request Act requests Freedom of Information Act request regarding the 17 00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:49.879 recent White House response to Steven Bassett's petition asking for the White House to fess 18 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:57.480 up that they have knowledge of communicating with extraterrestrials. And of course lately we 19 00:01:57.560 --> 00:02:01.200 find out Obama was on Mars, though we didn't get into that, but 20 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:06.840 we just stuck to kind of that White House petition response and he got some 21 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:13.319 details about, you know, what the correspondence was behind the creation of that 22 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:17.039 response. So we'll talk to him about how he got that information, what 23 00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:21.400 it was like, what he thinks of it, and then we'll talk about 24 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:25.039 these petitions and everything overall and his perspective on you know, is this the 25 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:29.680 right way to go to ask the White House to do anything? Or are 26 00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:32.680 there more effective ways we can approach this subject? And I know he's got 27 00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:38.280 a lot of great opinions on this, So this is going to be wonderful. 28 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:43.240 It's all White House, it's all politics tonight. It's gonna be a 29 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:46.280 lot of fun. You're gonna love it. Trust me. I do want 30 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:53.479 to mention that well, Grant Candraon's going to be at the International UFO Congress 31 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:55.879 actually, which is great, and if you want to meet Grant, he's 32 00:02:55.879 --> 00:02:59.840 not speaking, so he's gonna have a lot of time to just hang out 33 00:02:59.840 --> 00:03:04.680 with people and you can buy them some drinks or have some dinner with them 34 00:03:04.759 --> 00:03:08.240 or whatever. So come on down to the UFO Congress this February twenty second 35 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:15.319 to the twenty sixth at Fort mcdell Resort. And the deadline for the cheap 36 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:22.919 seats for the getting everything at a discount ends January twenty seventh. So if 37 00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:27.719 you have been procrastinating and you want it to come and you want to get 38 00:03:27.719 --> 00:03:34.360 in on the cheaper fee registration fee, then you're gonna want to register by 39 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:42.120 January twenty seventh. That is like four days away, so you better get 40 00:03:42.120 --> 00:03:46.919 on the ball just right now. Go to Ufocongress dot com and register. 41 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:50.360 I know, I think it was last week I gave you guys a little 42 00:03:50.360 --> 00:03:53.280 bit of time to register on air. Here. I'm not going to give 43 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:54.840 you time. Just go ahead and do it while we're talking this time. 44 00:03:55.280 --> 00:04:00.400 So go ahead to go to ufocongress dot com and register. It'll take you 45 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:02.400 no time, he'll be set and then you'll be listening to the show thinking, 46 00:04:02.919 --> 00:04:08.560 no way, I'm going to meet these dudes. Awesome, because I 47 00:04:08.599 --> 00:04:13.840 know a good amount of you probably talk that way. Maybe Winner two. 48 00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:18.879 That's how Jason talks when he's not on the radio. Speaking of Jason McClellan, 49 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:25.560 he is a guy who follows UFO news on a regular basis. And 50 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:30.399 I'm talking at least a few times a day. He'll he'll check his emails 51 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:33.839 and look on the Internet and he'll boast several stories throughout the day, which 52 00:04:33.879 --> 00:04:38.800 is really cool. So he's following UFO news on a regular basis. He 53 00:04:38.920 --> 00:04:43.439 posted that open Minds dot tv and then he comes here weekly to tell us 54 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:46.839 about the UFO news. Let's go over to Jason McClellan and let's talk some 55 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:51.600 UFO news. Hello, Jason, let me make sure I have my radio 56 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:56.079 voice on, Alejandro. Yeah, don't do your regular yo. No, 57 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:59.959 I've got my radio voice radio man. That's right. We'll greetings everyone, 58 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:03.040 This is your Open Minds News Brief for Monday, January twenty third, twenty 59 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:08.519 twelve. Start up with the UFO Sighting. Six UFOs were recently photographed in 60 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:12.680 neighboring counties in England. The first of the two sightings occurred on the afternoon 61 00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:18.000 of January seventh in Kent. The witness Ernesta greeks Us snapped a photo of 62 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:23.319 two UFOs. He didn't notice the mysterious objects at the time as he was 63 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:28.120 simply taking photos on his iPhone of a cherry picker outside his home. Greegsis 64 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:31.240 only noticed the UFOs later when he was reviewing the photos. He described the 65 00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:36.519 UFOs in his photo to the Sun as the following, there are two white 66 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:41.639 discs. I can't explain. I'm nowhere near a flight path. One is 67 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:45.439 slightly fainter, as if it is further away or going at a different speed. 68 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:49.879 The second sighting occurred on the morning of January thirteenth in Essex, as 69 00:05:49.920 --> 00:05:55.600 witness Josh Cummings was driving to work. He explained to The Sun quote, 70 00:05:55.879 --> 00:06:00.279 I nearly crashed. I stopped to take this picture with my mobile like the 71 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:03.639 UFOs were surfing the clouds. They were there for fifteen seconds, then vanished. 72 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:08.959 As The Daily Mail reports, the sightings were made just thirty miles apart 73 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:14.519 in an area now dub the country's UFO hotspot. All six of these UFOs 74 00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:19.839 look strikingly similar, at least to me they do. Could the close proximity 75 00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:25.560 of the sightings, the quote remarkably similar UFOs as the Sun describes them, 76 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:29.959 and the matching ages of the two witnesses all be a coincident. Both the 77 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:32.199 witnesses happen to be twenty one years old. Of course, they could be 78 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:35.759 a coincidence. It's possible that the same UFOs were seen by the two witnesses 79 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:40.480 in different locations, and this happens frequently, but unfortunately a few sightings are 80 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:44.319 photographed by multiple witnesses. We wish we had more of that. The nearly 81 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:48.600 id identical UFOs bear a striking resemblance, in my opinion, to reflections of 82 00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:54.560 light bulbs hanging in light fixtures. Both photos were reportedly shot through windows, 83 00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:59.319 which increases the probability that the strange objects were simply light reflections, and some 84 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:02.160 suggests the possibility that the two witnesses may know each other, hinting at a 85 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:11.199 possible hoax, and I was speculating at this myself. Alejandro and I came 86 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:16.240 across the website of one of the witnesses, so one witness was identified by 87 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:20.720 the Sun as a car salesman, and I noticed the other witness on his 88 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:27.920 website listed that he owned a car sales business. So that paired with the 89 00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:31.399 matching ages, matching with the close proximity to the two, I thought there 90 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:39.079 might be something fishy going on. However, I must state that the witness, 91 00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:43.360 Greek Sask, contacted me and wanted to share his side of the story. 92 00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:47.839 So he wanted me to know that absolutely he did not hoax the photo, 93 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:53.120 and he said quote, I personally can't say whether it was a UFO 94 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:56.800 or not because I was too busy focusing on my camera. I am a 95 00:07:56.920 --> 00:07:59.879 UFO fanatic, and I wish I did see it with my own eyes, 96 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:05.160 but at this point it remains a mystery. Now, if I read correctly, 97 00:08:05.720 --> 00:08:11.079 this was they were both shooting through glass. Correct, Yeah, see, 98 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:16.399 because this really looks like to me the reflection of a lamp right on 99 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:22.240 the window, and which happens quite a bit, and people typically say they 100 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:26.879 didn't notice the UFO when they took the picture, and the reason is, 101 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:31.360 you know, we ignore reflections when we're looking through windows. It's something that's 102 00:08:31.440 --> 00:08:35.799 every day and our brains just kind of don't register it, and so we 103 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:41.480 see it afterwards. That happens a lot when people are taking pictures. You 104 00:08:41.559 --> 00:08:46.000 ignore things that are mundane and every day, and then sometimes those things look 105 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:50.799 weird in your pictures and that's why people say that. So that's what it 106 00:08:50.840 --> 00:08:54.480 looks like to me. Yeah, in one of the witnesses, you know, 107 00:08:54.519 --> 00:08:58.440 he shot through glass, but he said it was in his car, 108 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:03.639 you know, so it doesn't wouldn't necessarily fit with like a lamp in the 109 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:05.600 house, but when you look at it, it could also be a street 110 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:09.240 lamp, you know, a couple of street lamps. And sometimes glass distorts 111 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:13.480 an image or reflection and makes it look like there are multiple objects when there 112 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:18.039 could have just been two rather than four in that particular picture. But we 113 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:24.039 don't know, but it does look like the reflection of a light or a 114 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:26.120 lamp in the window. Yeah, that's the hard part. But they were 115 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:30.399 interesting pictures. Yeah, they are interesting, and and you know, I 116 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:33.519 think, not to speak for you, the reason you want to look for 117 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:39.519 that sort of thing is because what I am striving to find is photos that 118 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:45.720 are incontrovertible evidence. Because you want to take this to scientists, into people 119 00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:50.200 who are skeptical or mainstream people and say, look, you can't deny this 120 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:54.720 is something weird. And so you know, unfortunately, because these look kind 121 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:58.279 of similar to likes, these wouldn't be those kind of pictures. And I 122 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:01.080 just want to ex playing because some people get mad, why are you talking 123 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:05.240 down these pictures? And it's not that we're doing that, it's just we're 124 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:09.360 looking for really good stuff so we can blow this baby wide open. Yeah, 125 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:13.039 that's that's true. I agree with you, and you know, I 126 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:16.919 think it's valuable for everybody. You know, when we can identify what a 127 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:20.600 particular particular photo is, if it's not something that's unidentifiable, you know, 128 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:26.000 if we can point out what things are in photos that we routinely see in 129 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:28.080 a lot of photos that are submitted to us, you know, we can 130 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:33.440 help people understand what they're looking at in particular photos. We can make people 131 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:35.879 aware so they know that when they have a photo of that, that's not 132 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:43.039 something that's mysterious. It's not what we're looking for. We saw weird lights 133 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:46.879 in the sky recently. They turned out to be mundane things, and we 134 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:54.240 had special mystery guests with us who our audience will find about some about sometime 135 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:58.960 in the future. Yeah, that's right. We have really crazy lights and 136 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:03.080 then they turned out to be nothing special. We had a life changing experience. 137 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:07.960 My friend changed your life. It did change my life. Eh, 138 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:11.240 it was life changing for me. Yeah. Lay, well, we'll talk 139 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:13.840 about that in the future. But that's a nice teaser for everybody. Yeah, 140 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:16.080 a little teaser, all right. In other news, well, it 141 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:20.120 was just a couple of weeks ago that our guest from last week, Lee 142 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:24.039 Spiegel of The Huffington Post reported that the Mutual UFO Network, also known as 143 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:28.120 moufon, had already noticed an increase in UFO sidings reported in the first week 144 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:31.559 of January compared to last year, and there was more activity reported by moufon 145 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:37.960 last week, but not related to UFO sidings. On Tuesday, January seventeenth, 146 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:41.559 the Greeley Tribune reported that Moufon's international director, Clifford Cliff, will be 147 00:11:41.559 --> 00:11:46.200 stepping down from his post. Cliff, who has occupied the position since March 148 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:50.519 twenty ten, is resigning because he wants to spend more time with his family 149 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:54.679 and because he wants to, you know, spend more time being retired. 150 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:56.840 And good for you, Cliff, That's what I want, is you. 151 00:11:56.600 --> 00:12:01.639 It wouldn't be acceptable for me to do it. But he's of the comfortable 152 00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:05.159 age where I think it's acceptable society will allow him to. Yeah, he's 153 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:09.399 joy retirement. He's getting tired. Yeah, you know, he wants to 154 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:15.159 chill out. And you know, I don't think people understand these move On 155 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:18.879 board members put in a lot of hours. Cliff is one of those guys, 156 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:22.320 and people think, oh, you know, Moufon has all these resources. 157 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:24.960 They don't. People are working and everything, people are busy. You 158 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:30.879 only have a few people out there who are really giving it. They're all 159 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:33.759 and Cliff has been one of those people for many, many years. Right. 160 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:41.200 And David McDonald, a Mofon board member who has served the organization as 161 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:46.320 Assistant Director of Investigations, Star Team administrator and State director of Kentucky, will 162 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:50.799 be replacing Cliff as international director on February first. We will reportedly remain active 163 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:56.559 with the organization as he oversees the archives, but the organization's structure change is 164 00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:01.360 that the only major activity recently reported by moufon on headquarters, currently based in 165 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:05.559 Greeley, Colorado, will be relocating to Ohio. Rogermarshaf Examiner dot Com explains 166 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:11.399 quote McDonald will move MUFON International Headquarters to Cincinnati, Ohio, where he operates 167 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:16.960 Global Airline Education Center and Campus. Being centrally located, the International Headquarters will 168 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:20.559 be easily accessible to many more members. Cincinnati is within a six hour drive 169 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:26.279 for sixty percent of the population of the United States end quote. Cliff is 170 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:31.320 asking everyone to have patients during this transition period. He recently stated, quote 171 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:33.720 keep your eyes on the sky, and let's all welcome mister David McDonald as 172 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:41.480 Moffon's new international director end quote. And I know we've mentioned repeatedly that Clifford 173 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:46.759 Cliff will be speaking at the International UFO Congress, and just so you all 174 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:50.399 know, nothing has changed with that. He's stepping down has not affected that. 175 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:54.960 And we are excited that Clifford Cliff will still be speaking at the International 176 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:58.279 UFO Congress. And I believe he speaks on Wednesday, the twenty second of 177 00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:05.200 February. So come on out and see Cliff. Yeah, can meet Cliff. 178 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:09.039 He's a really really if you haven't seen him talk or you haven't met 179 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:13.399 him, he's a really nice guy and he doesn't shy away from any questions. 180 00:14:15.559 --> 00:14:18.440 He's just one of the and he's so funny He's a lot of fun 181 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:22.440 to watch talk. He's really funny. It's an odd description, but you 182 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.360 know, Cliff is one of the few people that I would describe as real. 183 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:30.879 He's a real person. He's very down to earth, he's very accessible, 184 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:33.240 and you're right, he is so funny. I don't think I've ever 185 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:37.759 had a moment with Cliff where he doesn't make me laugh. Yep, he's 186 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:39.240 a joker. I like him. Yep, he's a good dude. All 187 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:43.399 right. Here's something kind of interesting. Well, it might sound like the 188 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:48.000 plot of an awesome Hollywood movie. Russia wants to put a base on the 189 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:54.720 Moon in real life. According to Russian Space Agency chief Space Agency Chief Vladimir 190 00:14:54.759 --> 00:15:00.759 Popupkin, a growing body of research supports the idea that humans can live for 191 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:03.399 extended periods of time on or around the Moon, and, as space dot 192 00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:07.840 Com reports, Papupkin claims, Russia is currently in talks with NASA and the 193 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:15.000 European Space Agency about constructing manned research colonies in orbit around the Moon and even 194 00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:20.480 on the Moon. But here's where it's weird. Apparently, NASA denies these 195 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:26.679 claims, so NASA spokesman JD. Harrington told Space dot Com quote. We 196 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:31.200 believe Papupkin may be referring to the work of the International Space Exploration Coordination Group 197 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:39.799 the ISECG and its Global Exploration roadmap. Now, we talked probably months ago 198 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:46.799 about this global Exploration roadmap of THEIRS and what it is is they developed a 199 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:52.519 long range roadmap for space exploration that included a possible mand mission to an asteroid 200 00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:56.360 or even the Moon, but apparently no mention of a moon base. So 201 00:15:56.679 --> 00:16:02.200 we have this Russian scientist making these claims, and it certainly grabbed a lot 202 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:07.519 of headlines. But NASA's saying I think he misinterpreted. What are they know? 203 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:12.440 I mean just because and these days some of the news that's come out 204 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:18.679 is Russia is I don't know, if they're kind of throwing their weight around 205 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:22.440 a little more because they have some weight to throw around since they're shuttling us 206 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:26.960 around. But how they're they're thinking of separating their programs from NASA and doing 207 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:30.000 their own stuff. So if that's the case, we don't know if they're 208 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.240 planning that or not. I think, right well, we don't. But 209 00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:38.399 but their response is to his claims saying that Russia is working with NASA and 210 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:42.039 the European Agency of building these bases. Maybe it was supposed to be a 211 00:16:42.039 --> 00:16:45.240 secret. I think it was. I know, it seems kind of fishy 212 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:48.879 that, you know, they'd come out and say this and then NASA goes, 213 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:53.000 well, that's not true, Like dude, that was a secret. 214 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:57.519 Oh. So, you know, it's been it's been a weird couple of 215 00:16:57.559 --> 00:17:02.600 months with Russia in the base news. You know, they've had some trouble 216 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:07.279 with their rockets and satellites crashing to Earth, flaming the United States for causing 217 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:11.200 the satellites to crash to Earth, and now saying that they're working with NASA 218 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:15.880 to put a base on the Moon. So it's weird, kind of interesting. 219 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:19.559 Let's talk about another sighting here. A glowing UFO in Devon, England, 220 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:23.680 was photographed by witness Gary McDermott on the night of Sunday, January twenty 221 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:27.960 second. McDermott reportedly stopped his car to take a picture of a low flying 222 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:33.920 helicopter and that's when he noticed the UFO. According to the Telegraph, the 223 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:38.880 UFO was a red disc shaped object with bright flashing lights. Mcgermott explained quote, 224 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:42.559 it must have been a UFO and I can't believe I'm saying that because 225 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:47.880 I don't believe in them usually and I'm always skeptical. But it was definitely 226 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:52.720 not a normal aircraft. It was red the shape they say UFO aircraft is, 227 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:56.799 and has two bright lights coming out of it. End quote. The 228 00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:03.759 unknown object disappeared almost immediately after McDermott saw it, and the object in McDermott's 229 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:08.599 photo, to me, at least it appears more cigar or blimp shaped than 230 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:12.720 disc shaped, but it's hard to tell from the photograph, and while the 231 00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:18.359 object looks very much like a dirigible to me, the witness's description of how 232 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:22.319 the UFO vanished before his eyes is certainly not consistent with the behavior of a 233 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:26.799 dirigible. According to the Telegraph, Devin police said they did not receive any 234 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:30.759 UFO setting reports in the area that night, so the object remains unidentified. 235 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:36.279 This is a weird picture, I mean, and you know, if since 236 00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:38.960 it's a light on this thing, or on one side, if it was 237 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:44.200 a disc, maybe that's why that's only one side of it turned out in 238 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:47.759 the picture, and that's why it looks more cigar shaped, right, So 239 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:49.400 yeah, that's certainly possible. You know, it's difficult to make out the 240 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:53.000 shape from that photo. And a big deal is that he saw this thing, 241 00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:56.880 you know. Yeah, by the time he yeah, he saw it, 242 00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:00.599 took the picture, and then before he could tell his buddy, hey, 243 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:03.799 look, it was gone. Yeah. So it's probably not a flare 244 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:07.759 off of his camera, right, So yeah, kind of weird. I 245 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:15.359 guess it could be a super fast blimp show, super fast extra terrestrial blimp. 246 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:18.039 That's awesome. It could be yeah, maybe from the future. Who 247 00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:22.559 knows. Well, that one's pretty exciting. Yeah, cool bag. I 248 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:23.839 like it. Like I said, when I initially saw it, you know, 249 00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:27.599 I thought, oh, that's possibly a blimp. But yeah, the 250 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:32.720 description again completely changes that. So and we talked about this before. I 251 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:37.000 mean, you know, with sightings, witness testimony is you know, a 252 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:40.920 large part of what we have to go on, you know, and you 253 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:44.519 can either believe them or not, but you know, it's there. So 254 00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:48.160 that's that's one of the puzzle pieces we have to work with. Yep. 255 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:52.440 Well, Alejandro, that is all the news I have for today. Have 256 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:56.200 many more stories on Openminds dot tv and you can always go there to check 257 00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:00.240 out the many stories we have there. And I am Jason McClellan, your 258 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:04.519 Open Lines News correspondent, and you've just been briefed back to you, Alejandro. 259 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:10.559 Thank you, Jason. So some great news items there. Go check 260 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:17.359 out McDermott's picture and also some other news that Open Minds has been making this 261 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:22.400 week is around a Chilean general who is going to speak at the UFO Congress 262 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:26.839 that we are just talking about. This is exciting because this is a guy 263 00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:34.119 who is in charge of an official government UFO investigative organization. They essentially say 264 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:41.400 their mission is to pursue solid UFO cases with adequate scientific data, but only 265 00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:45.839 if there is an indication that the safety of the aircraft might have been at 266 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:52.119 risk. They call themselves SEPHA ce FAA, which stands for the Committee for 267 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:57.799 the Study of Aerial Anomalous Phenomena. And they don't fit the acronym because it's 268 00:20:57.799 --> 00:21:03.400 of course it's SPAN. That's the English version of it, so SEFA And 269 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:07.680 if you go to their website then you can see the cases that they have 270 00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:11.519 investigated, and they have investigated quite a few that they think are really interesting. 271 00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:18.559 So this is really cool. He's a retired general. He did a 272 00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:22.200 lot of cool stuff. He was the Chilean Air attache in London and the 273 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:27.960 commander of the Chilean Air Force's Southern Region for a period of time. And 274 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:33.559 then he founded this UFO group in nineteen ninety eight, which is an official 275 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:41.440 branch of their version of the FAA. So this is a real organization interviewing 276 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:47.519 UFOs, he wrote, General Bermudez is his name. He wrote a part 277 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:52.160 of the UFOs General's Pilots and Government Officials Go on the Record, a book 278 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:59.920 by Leslie Keane. Leslie Kane, excuse me, So this is really cool. 279 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:08.880 A general coming to talk about UFOs and an official UFO investigative project. 280 00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:14.200 So this is like, you know, a big deal. So that's why 281 00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:17.960 it is getting some press out there, which is really great. And again, 282 00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:22.039 if you want to catch this and catch the UFO Congress, be sure 283 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:26.240 to register in the next couple of days so you can catch the discounted early 284 00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:33.920 bird prices. Speaking of government, what about the United States government? Those 285 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:40.200 bunch of jokers, they're dropping the ball. And we have the guy who 286 00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:45.000 is an expert on just and the details of how the US government is dropping 287 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:51.759 the ball on the UFO matter, and that is Grant Cameron of PRESIDENTIALUFO dot 288 00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:56.160 Com. Let's get him on the line. I am very happy to speak 289 00:22:56.680 --> 00:23:03.480 once again to my good buddy Grant camera man who runs Presidential UFO dot Com, 290 00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:08.000 the authority on Presidents and UFO, is the perfect person to talk to 291 00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:15.480 about the recent White House UFO petitions. Welcome, well, Eli Chandra, 292 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:18.119 thanks for having me on. It's good to talk to you again. Yep, 293 00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:22.599 it's always fun. So yeah, I know we'll get into it and 294 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:26.960 we always have a lot to talk about. And really these petitions. So 295 00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:40.119 it started off with Bassett, Stephen Bassett's petition more around the extraterrestrial aspect, 296 00:23:40.599 --> 00:23:45.640 asking for proof of extraterrest grills. Now, my first question for you. 297 00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:49.839 You know a lot of people criticize Bassett for centering it around asking for evidence 298 00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:55.960 of communication with extraterrestrials and that that's more of a long shot. However, 299 00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:00.400 in his defense, do you really think that the White House would have taken 300 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:11.200 any UFO centric petition seriously, no matter what the verbage. Yeah, I 301 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:15.519 agree in defense Steve Bassett, I was been friends with Steve Bassett for a 302 00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:21.599 number of years and when I first began the President's site, he had give 303 00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:25.880 me some advice and and was one of my probably my biggest supporter in the 304 00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:30.559 UFO community, pushing and he's quite a group of people that he pushed in 305 00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:36.000 and moved my site up the chain. In his defense, I think, 306 00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:41.640 Steve, there's there's a thing in the in the UFOL community now this aba 307 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:45.519 anything but alien. You know, we're changing the verbiage and and uh, 308 00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:49.519 it's sort of like we're embarrassed for the Rodney dangerfield of the scientific world, 309 00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:55.440 and we we we don't want to really say ET. I'll give Steve credit. 310 00:24:55.920 --> 00:25:00.200 Steve, there's no playing around. Steve just is what he thinks is 311 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:06.119 true. He doesn't play any games. And basically he believes the Roswell story. 312 00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:08.279 He believes basically, they've got the evidence, they got the bodies, 313 00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:12.640 they got the they've been in communication, they know and let's just get it 314 00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:17.839 out there. Let's quit playing around. Uh. And he's a lobbyist, 315 00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:22.160 he's he's going to push. So his effort using the ET thing was just 316 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:27.720 what he basically thought. He believes the the the government knows what's going on, 317 00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:34.039 that the White House can change it. And that's where the House petition 318 00:25:34.279 --> 00:25:38.680 was filed and and he did get a lot of flak from people who you 319 00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:45.480 know, really are sensitive about their reputations and really don't want to sort of 320 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:48.119 offend anybody, so that I think that's where the backlash came. In terms 321 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:52.279 of of the burbage. I don't really think it's really going to make any 322 00:25:52.279 --> 00:26:00.000 difference, and I I filed my foias and expecting exactly what I got. 323 00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:06.480 I was not surprised have any of the replies that I got. And I've 324 00:26:06.519 --> 00:26:10.400 been through this a lot of times in articles I've written where I basically say 325 00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:15.480 that if you understand how government works, they're never going to deal with this 326 00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:19.799 issue, right, whether it's Congress or whether it's the White House. And 327 00:26:19.960 --> 00:26:23.720 there's even a question as to whether the White House is really in the loop, 328 00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:30.039 because, as you know, Stephen, President Clinton on a number of 329 00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:33.759 occasions seemed to indicate that he tried to get to the answer and was unable 330 00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:38.839 to get the answer. So whether the White House would even know is not 331 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:44.240 gonna It's not going anywhere. So when I filed my FOAs, I sort 332 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:49.759 of assume that the the the office that was handed in was the Office of 333 00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:55.480 Science and Technology Policy, which is the Office of the Science Director to the 334 00:26:55.480 --> 00:27:00.079 President, and they've been involved a number of times, back right back to 335 00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:03.359 the Jimmy Carter days the Office of Science and Technology Policy, And I just 336 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:06.440 want to clarify real quick. I mean, we did talk about this in 337 00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:12.720 previous shows, but you filed a Freedom of Information Act request to the White 338 00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:18.880 House Scientific Policy Department. You can clarify the department name, I forget, 339 00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:26.039 but you were asking for the drafts of the response to Batsett's extraterrestrial petition, 340 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:30.279 and you got something. And we'll talk more details about that, but go 341 00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:36.519 ahead. Yeah, well then let's just take that for an example. But 342 00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:41.920 my assumption was that the Office of the Science Advisor from my experience, and 343 00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:45.359 I know back when I filed in two thousand, I filed with the Clinton 344 00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:51.519 White House, the Office of Science and Technology Policy, and I got this 345 00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:56.000 sort of a gold mine. I got thousand pages of material dealing with the 346 00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:02.880 Rockefeller Initiative where Lawrence Rockefeller's billionaire philanthropist, decides he's going to President Clinton and 347 00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:08.759 he's going to get President Clinton to disclose UFOs. So he makes his approach 348 00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:14.519 to the White House, gets caught off by this same office that's now dealing 349 00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:18.160 with his petition. The Office of Science and Technology Policy, and they basically 350 00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:22.319 deal with Rockefeller and this for three years. This is correspondence and a bunch 351 00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:26.799 of people interacting in briefings and stuff like this, and they're dealing with the 352 00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:30.799 UFO subject to try to keep Lawrence Rockefeller from going to the president. So 353 00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:36.839 they're dealing with that level. So I knew then that because at that point 354 00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:41.680 Gibbons, who was running the office for Clinton, his science advisor, really 355 00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:44.279 didn't know anything about UFOs, really didn't want anything to do with it. 356 00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:45.640 And I assume that this is going to be the same thing that happened here. 357 00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:52.880 So I actually filed seven Free Information Act requests once Bastt filed the petition. 358 00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:56.160 Now, when Stephen first filed the petition, I thought it was the 359 00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:59.960 kind of a goofy idea, they're not going to do anything. And actually, 360 00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.640 since the petition has come out, I've sort of actually started to believe 361 00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:07.799 that that disclosure will come. When it's time for disclosure to come. That 362 00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:11.640 you have to build it like a cake. You have to put the layers, 363 00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:14.480 and this is one of the layers that Steve put in there that at 364 00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:17.519 first I really didn't sort of agree. But now I say that this is 365 00:29:17.559 --> 00:29:21.319 one of the key things that has been done in euthology, is this petition, 366 00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:23.480 and what it is done is when Steve filed the petition, he got 367 00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:30.599 the appropriate number of signatures, which is five thousand, and he got the 368 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:33.960 White House to respond. And some people have come out and said it wasn't 369 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:41.319 an official response. It was just this Phil Larsen guy giving his opinion on 370 00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:45.200 UFOs, which is our e keys, which is absolutely not true. If 371 00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:49.559 it's on the White House website, it is the president and people see how 372 00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:56.200 the president works. There's nothing that happens around the president that isn't completely planned 373 00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:59.720 down to the last moment. So anything else on the pre on the White 374 00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:03.680 House website has got approval. It is not nobody gets to have their own 375 00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:07.200 little personal opinion on there. The President speaks for everybody. The buck stops 376 00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:11.759 at the President's office, right, and he's responsible everything. So this actually 377 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:15.759 when Steve fel the petition, I say, this is an official response on 378 00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:19.599 behalf of the US government on the subject of ets right well at the White 379 00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:25.400 from the White House, right, this is an official response. And the 380 00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:30.400 emails that you received through your FOYA proved that. I mean he didn't. 381 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:33.480 He wrote it, sure, but he passed it on to the rest of 382 00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:37.359 the group and got approval from his supervisors. I mean, he had to 383 00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:41.200 get the stamp of approval before this went out because, as it says, 384 00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:47.920 it is an official response. Yes, and that's what I haven't really firmly 385 00:30:48.039 --> 00:30:51.839 established yet. You can tell there's there's these two other people. The guy 386 00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:55.519 that wrote it was Phil Larson, and Phil Larson is nothing but a pr 387 00:30:55.599 --> 00:30:57.920 guy. Yeah, he really doesn't know anything about anything. I mean, 388 00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:03.119 if you look go to the the White House website with the Office Science and 389 00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:07.640 Technology Policy, you'll see that every day he writes the story about something else 390 00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:14.559 and he's just putting the best spin on what the the the offices the Science 391 00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:18.680 Advisor is doing in terms of uh, you know, new technology and green 392 00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:22.400 energy and Mars and and he just writes the articles. He really didn't have 393 00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:26.799 anything And that's why I went after the drafts. I I wanted to find 394 00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:29.799 out who gave approval, which I still don't know what the approval was. 395 00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:33.839 It was. We know that there was this uh the website that was there 396 00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:36.960 was we the people, and there was a girl that ran the website, 397 00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:40.720 and we know that Larsen went to these meetings and that they had they were 398 00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:45.000 given petitions and the Office of Science Technology Policy was given three petitions, not 399 00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:49.000 just the EP petition. They were given three petitions to answer, and we 400 00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:55.000 know it came at that level. Now as to who UH decided, you 401 00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:56.839 know, what was going to happen and what was going to be put down 402 00:31:57.160 --> 00:32:00.000 that I wasn't able to establish. And I I had talked about this before. 403 00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:06.880 There's this B five exemption, which is sort of a situation where if 404 00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:10.960 you're giving advice to another department or to the President or to somebody that is 405 00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:15.720 now exempt on their Free Information Act for twelve years. So when I asked 406 00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:20.039 for the drafts, basically all the drafts were withheld. And what I was 407 00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:23.559 trying to do because I got lucky once before I filed when I was in 408 00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:29.200 Los Angeles, I had filed with the Reagan Library for this speech on that 409 00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:34.519 Ronald Reagan had given it a nineteen eighty seven United Nations where we talked about 410 00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:37.279 the alien invasion, and I had asked for all the speech drafts and at 411 00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:42.400 that time they weren't using this B five exemption of pulling all this stuff out. 412 00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:45.920 And what I found there was I was trying to find out how did 413 00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:50.559 the alien invasion thing get into the speech? Who put it in, what 414 00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.319 did people respond? And you could see all the interactions as all these drafts 415 00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:57.759 of the speech going to the CIA and the military and also of stuff, 416 00:32:57.799 --> 00:33:00.759 and you could see what people were reacting to it. And you could also 417 00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:04.279 see that at one point they had pulled the alien invasion remark out of the 418 00:33:04.279 --> 00:33:07.640 speech and Ronald Reagan, in his own handwriting it, asked to have it 419 00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:09.839 put back any right. So that's what I was doing here, is I 420 00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:14.559 was trying to get the speech drafts to see what it had gone to the 421 00:33:14.599 --> 00:33:17.119 CI, had gone to NASA, did someone in CIA make a comment, 422 00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:22.079 did the President make a comment? Did the President see it? And all 423 00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:28.119 the speech drafts were withheld because although this was a short process, I mean, 424 00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:30.039 they only had a couple of dice to come up with something and tobmit 425 00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:34.599 it and get it out. It looks like from the drafts that you had, 426 00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:39.559 Yeah, so it appears that he probably and because of the verbiage, 427 00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:45.279 which is not very deep, it's very you know, he could it's like 428 00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:50.240 someone could google and find the information that he found. It seems like he 429 00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:54.480 probably wrote it himself. But like you said, you don't know what other 430 00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:59.839 agencies might have had to put their stamp on it before it got approved. 431 00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:02.279 What you're saying, yeah, well, we do know it went to NASA, 432 00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:07.799 went to these two guys in NASA and public relations ahead of public relations 433 00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:10.960 for NASA, and this other guy, and they they basically, by the 434 00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:15.480 looks of it, didn't make any comments. Now I'm filowing a Free Information 435 00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:20.360 Act request with NASA, hopefully on their end, to get their documentation that 436 00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:24.760 maybe they'll release something that the Science Advisor's office didn't release. But we know 437 00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:28.039 it went there. We know it didn't go to the CIA, which was 438 00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:35.239 the key thing. I filed one Free Information Act request asking for Ronald Pandolphie 439 00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.719 because if you follow the Ronald Pandolphie story, and he's supposed to be the 440 00:34:37.719 --> 00:34:40.400 guy who runs the Weird Desk, or he did run the weird Desk with 441 00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:45.639 the UFO and the paranormal and the phenomenology files as they call him, that 442 00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:51.599 he was sort of the guy that during the Clinton administration when the Office the 443 00:34:51.639 --> 00:34:55.119 Science Advisor knew that Rockefeller was coming to the White House. The first thing 444 00:34:55.159 --> 00:34:59.760 he did, because Gibbons didn't know what was going on with UFOs, is 445 00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:02.400 the asked for UFO briefing, and he went to the CIA for the UFO 446 00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:07.599 briefing and the job was given to Ronald Pandolphie, and Ronald Pandolphie stucked the 447 00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:13.599 job off on because he couldn't give an official briefing for the CIA because the 448 00:35:13.639 --> 00:35:15.719 CIA isn't involved with UFO. So what he did was he gave it to 449 00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:21.679 Bruce mccabee to write a briefing for the Science Advisor, and then it becomes 450 00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:24.760 just some civilian off the street, which really doesn't mean anything. It's nothing 451 00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:29.719 official to provide this information for Gibbons. So what I'd done in this one 452 00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:34.519 is I asked for an FOI about all the contacts between Larson, who had 453 00:35:34.519 --> 00:35:37.880 written the draft, and Ronald Pandolphie. And what I was trying to find 454 00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:42.079 out was Ronald Pandolphie involved in this thing because he was involved in ninety three. 455 00:35:42.119 --> 00:35:45.480 He went in talked to Gibbons and told Gibbons, don't deal with UFOs, 456 00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:47.880 stay away from it. And I wanted to see and this came back 457 00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:51.920 and said no, there was no contact. So it appears that the only 458 00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:55.920 all these Larson drafted it. It went to NASA, they just said yeah, 459 00:35:55.920 --> 00:36:00.599 okay, looks good to us. It went back and they they threw 460 00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:02.519 this thing out and it was the end of the story. The other thing 461 00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:08.920 I established and I tried to because the petition was signed by twelve thousand plus 462 00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:14.320 people, it was a it was addressed to President Obama. So of course 463 00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:17.840 one of the fis I had was I want all the correspondents inside the Office 464 00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:24.480 the Science Advisor, which would indicate or show that that President Obama or anybody 465 00:36:24.519 --> 00:36:29.679 inside the Executive Office acting on his behalf, actually saw the petition. And 466 00:36:29.719 --> 00:36:32.840 they came back no documentation, which as far as I can tell right now, 467 00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:38.039 indicates that the President nor anybody in the executive in his office ever saw 468 00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:43.440 the petition, which is pretty pretty damaging for their for their side and that. 469 00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:45.639 But that's what I expected that would come back, is it was just 470 00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:51.719 something that you have all these issues and you you throw them down to different 471 00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:55.119 departments, and if it really gets serious and something happens, we'll I'll bring 472 00:36:55.159 --> 00:36:58.519 it to the President and say, well, you know we have to deal 473 00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:00.719 with this issue. But there's so many things going on, and I think 474 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:05.400 people sort of forget that all the time that the president has got, you 475 00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:10.079 know, fifty officials that report to him daily or every second day. Every 476 00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:14.360 one of those officials has got one hundred things, one hundred plates up in 477 00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:17.079 the air, and they're only going to bring to him only what's extremely important 478 00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:20.679 or what he has to that a lot of this stuff is dealt with, 479 00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:23.079 even though it's got the present's name on it, that other people are dealing 480 00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:27.719 on his behalf right. And that's what I think happened here. And I 481 00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:30.119 was able to sort of prove it in an indirect method that the president never 482 00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:35.639 saw the petition even though twelve thousand people signed. And one of the things 483 00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:42.079 that I requested one of the petitions or the FIIs that I filed, Well, 484 00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:44.639 I missed it. It looks like, I think, why did you 485 00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:47.639 change it from five thousand to twenty five thousand. What I was hoping was 486 00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:52.559 that there was going to be some correspondence. It would say these UFO petitions 487 00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:55.039 and these marijuana and all these crazy people, we've got to get rid of 488 00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:59.519 this. We've got to put the numbers up to twenty five thousand to stop 489 00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:04.920 people from filing these stupid petitions. And unfortunately it's at a higher level than 490 00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:08.679 the Office of Science Science Advisor. So basically they didn't have any documentation because 491 00:38:08.679 --> 00:38:13.320 they didn't make that decision to change it from five thousand to twenty five thousand, 492 00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:15.639 which now means it used to be in democracy you could go to your 493 00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:19.719 representative, you go to the president and ask a question and get an answer. 494 00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:22.360 And now you need twenty five thousand people just to get the president or 495 00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:29.039 the president's office to answer a complaint from the from the constituents, is why, 496 00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:31.239 and that's why I wrote the article. When I went through trying to 497 00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:37.239 see like Steve does his thing, Leslie Kane does her thing, I do 498 00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:40.119 my thing. Everybody's doing what they think is going to move the football down 499 00:38:40.119 --> 00:38:46.400 the field and get it to the goal line. And so what I had 500 00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:53.280 done was filed by Foyas And then I looked at what has happened in ethology, 501 00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:55.840 what are the things that have really worked for us, And that's when 502 00:38:55.880 --> 00:39:00.840 I came across the idea that the president is probably not office we should be 503 00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:07.679 dealing with that we should be actually dealing at a congressional or a senatorial level, 504 00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:12.280 because all the major developments, the major things that have happened where we've 505 00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:17.039 almost gotten some disclosure on UFOs have always been promoted by a senator or a 506 00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:21.880 congressman. And that's because they got political cover, which the president doesn't have 507 00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:25.079 well. And that goes back to my original question, which was, you 508 00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:29.159 know, the second one of the second petitions that came out, because I'm 509 00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:32.000 sure there's more and they'll continue to be more. It's a Dolan and Zabel 510 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:38.400 one and it's very well written. I mean, it talks more about the 511 00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:45.320 credible witnesses and so forth. Let's say this one had been part of the 512 00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:50.599 first, or let's say it would have gotten a number of signatures it needed. 513 00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:57.280 Do you think the White House even would have had much different, much 514 00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:00.480 more to say than what they said to the first one. You know, 515 00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:04.199 I think I think it's it's the old thing is it's a political game. 516 00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:07.280 This is an issue that, especially in any year where you're campaigning for re 517 00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:10.800 election, this is something you do not want to touch, right. That's 518 00:40:10.840 --> 00:40:15.119 what basically what it comes down to is is you can see even in the 519 00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:19.840 article I wrote about the congressman. You'll get congressmen who will say, why 520 00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:22.599 doesn't the president do this? I'm just a congressman. He I mean, 521 00:40:22.599 --> 00:40:24.119 they're just like keep it away from me, like I mean, this is 522 00:40:24.519 --> 00:40:29.199 I'd like to help you. Or you know when when Fox or when Stephen 523 00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:32.440 Greerr went up onto the hill and petitioned and went from offs to office, 524 00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:37.039 they were both told the same thing that we'd like to help you, but 525 00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:42.800 before we before we can help you or get to the White House motivated to 526 00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:46.679 do something, you have to get a huge number of people to give us 527 00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:51.599 political backing. And once you do that, then we'll jump in there and 528 00:40:51.639 --> 00:40:54.039 we'll do something. And it's just an issue that it doesn't matter how I 529 00:40:54.039 --> 00:40:58.880 don't think it matters how you were. This is something the White House is 530 00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:00.599 not going to touch. And they they're doing the same with all the petitions. 531 00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:04.280 If you take a look at all the petitions, it's very bland and 532 00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:09.280 they're just sort of you know, it's fluffy answers that that don't really have 533 00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:13.639 any meat to them. Yeah, it's just sort of like everybody thinks that 534 00:41:13.639 --> 00:41:19.599 they're they're part of democracy and and you're you're you're participating in in in what's 535 00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:22.199 going on, and you get to put your name on things, then everybody 536 00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:24.960 feels involved and stuff like that, and people don't realize it's a political game. 537 00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:31.639 It's it's a game where in this uh in this upcoming election, it's 538 00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:37.320 sixty seven billion dollars to get everybody elected, and you have people who are 539 00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:42.440 paying thirty five eight hundred dollars for a seat to go to a fundraiser. 540 00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:45.400 And basically the UFO community has no money, it has, it has no 541 00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:50.960 political clout, it has, it has nobody. And basically what it comes 542 00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:55.840 down to is that people who are elected, whether it's at the senatorial level 543 00:41:57.079 --> 00:42:01.719 or the president level, you need huge amounts of money to get in. 544 00:42:01.960 --> 00:42:07.239 And the money is it's basically like bribes. It's it's companies that are giving 545 00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:12.280 you money and they expect something in return. And the UFO community has no 546 00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:16.519 money, absolutely no money whatsoever and no political influence. And we we're just 547 00:42:16.599 --> 00:42:22.280 a sort of an annoyance. If we were able to generate a pile of 548 00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:25.800 money or show that we could we could cause some voting problems with them, 549 00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:30.199 then they would deal with it. But as it is right now, it's 550 00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:32.760 just not an issue they really have to deal with. Plus it's an issue 551 00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:37.880 that has this secrecy aspect to it that if the President does know, it's 552 00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:42.199 just something that's classified and it's just something you don't want to go there, 553 00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:45.840 you don't want to open it because it's a classified issue. Well, and 554 00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:52.199 honestly too, this build has a credibility issue. I mean, it's a 555 00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:54.320 it's a grassroots type of thing, you know, it's not We don't have 556 00:42:54.400 --> 00:43:00.039 marketing or PR reps to help out in this situation, and I don't I 557 00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:06.639 think the UFO community hasn't really established that this is incredible. I think we're 558 00:43:06.679 --> 00:43:09.320 getting better and better every day, but that this is a credible issue. 559 00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:14.559 There still isn't credibility. I think we're creeping up on it, but not 560 00:43:14.679 --> 00:43:16.880 quite there. Yeah, And I think we need pressure, which we've never 561 00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:21.719 exerted. As I've always said, the most people when they had this movement 562 00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:27.159 and the name escapes me back in the nineteen nineties when they were protesting outside 563 00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:31.079 the White House, the most they ever had was nineteen people. So I 564 00:43:31.079 --> 00:43:36.480 mean, we just can't generate any sort of pressure. And as I've said 565 00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:39.039 for years, I've said, if you take a lot of all the political 566 00:43:39.079 --> 00:43:44.800 and social movements in the United States, every single one of them that are 567 00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:51.280 ugly issues like gay rights and AIDS and women's right to vote and all these 568 00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:55.440 kind of civil rights issues that the government really didn't want to issue the sames 569 00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:59.199 to issues that UFOs. It's like, get out of here with that stupid 570 00:43:59.239 --> 00:44:01.760 issue. I don't want to deal that. It was mass pressure being exerted 571 00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:06.000 on the government that moved them to the point where they said, like, 572 00:44:06.039 --> 00:44:08.280 there's votes involved here, and then suddenly, oh, everybody's along with it. 573 00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:13.239 They just don't have that kind of that influence on the government. And 574 00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:17.800 it has so many different things. But as I said, at a senatorial 575 00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:22.159 level, a lot of times, it only takes one person to motivate this 576 00:44:22.199 --> 00:44:25.320 thing. And it almost happened. It happened when I was in Kansas City. 577 00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:28.719 I was lecturing Kansas City in August, and when I was there, 578 00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:31.000 all over talking about the UFO sidings and these sightings and this and sightings that, 579 00:44:31.119 --> 00:44:35.079 and all the people could talk about was all these UFO sidings in Kansas 580 00:44:35.079 --> 00:44:38.199 City. And then about a month ago, they had this cattle mutilation in 581 00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:45.039 Kansas City right outside the airport, which is because of the nine to eleven 582 00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:47.320 thing, there's a lot of security around that airport, and this happened under 583 00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:52.639 the eyes of this security. This mutilation took place, and they were going 584 00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:55.079 to now I don't know if they have they were getting a petition at the 585 00:44:55.119 --> 00:44:59.599 meeting, the last meeting they had, and they were going to try to 586 00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:02.360 get a congressman or a senator. And that's what I say has to be 587 00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:07.679 done, is that if you get something that's happening in a city where like 588 00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:09.800 this kind of things happens, that you go to the congressman, you say 589 00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:14.360 we want action, we want you to do it. And the congressman is 590 00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:19.559 able with Stephen Schiff or any of these people where they go and they say, 591 00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:22.119 I really don't believe this is this is all nonsense, but these people 592 00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:25.960 want an answer, and I want an answer to this thing. And you'll 593 00:45:25.960 --> 00:45:30.679 see if you go back through history that in a lot of cases, only 594 00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:37.559 one person, Laura Johnstone was when Bush was elected. Before he was elected, 595 00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:40.400 he promised to disclose UFOs. She went to Stephen Ger lecture in San 596 00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:45.119 Francisco. She heard Stephen Ger talking about this, you know, disclosure and 597 00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:49.519 the fact that Bush had made this promise and stuff. She was a political 598 00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:52.239 act of but she had been arrested outside the White House. She was just 599 00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:54.280 itching for trouble and she thought this is great. So she went on a 600 00:45:54.320 --> 00:45:57.840 hunger strike. So what did she do? She went and had her hunger 601 00:45:57.840 --> 00:46:01.559 strike on the steps of Barbara Boxer office. Barbara Boxer was writing her letters 602 00:46:01.559 --> 00:46:07.400 and was contacting the Vice President's office. And that was one person's activity. 603 00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:12.400 And that's what I think we need is to sort of use these type of 604 00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:15.559 things where we don't need twelve thousand signatures, we don't need everybody online. 605 00:46:15.679 --> 00:46:20.159 We just have to be able to pressure a senator and then once we've got 606 00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:22.719 him making an official request, because they can make a official request, they 607 00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:27.440 don't need twelve thousand senators to get the president answer to something. They can 608 00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:30.119 get an official answer by writing a letter. And they've got a lot of 609 00:46:30.159 --> 00:46:34.199 power and a lot of them will will do it if you've given that political 610 00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:38.199 cover. And there's numerous examples back through history where we almost got the apple 611 00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:45.239 cart upset because one Congressman Shift as a prime example, because he was in 612 00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:49.679 New Mexico, he was under a lot of pressure for the Roswell crash, 613 00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:52.920 and he put the request in and he was sent like you and I and 614 00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:55.719 everybody else that's ever made a request to the Air Force of the military, 615 00:46:55.880 --> 00:46:59.519 he was sent to the National Archives. Who went to the National Archives and 616 00:46:59.559 --> 00:47:01.400 they sort of laughed at him, and he suddenly realized he was being had 617 00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:06.440 and he got upset, and he got upset. He said, there's something 618 00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:10.440 going on here, and he started to push it and he used his power 619 00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:16.719 to get this investigation done by the GOA. So that was one guy who 620 00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:22.519 had a couple of requests from constituents went and got upset and actually got the 621 00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.119 Air Force to go and spend millions of dollars to rein us to get the 622 00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:30.000 roswellt thing that happened very little, and you don't need these big things. 623 00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:34.039 So that's what I say to people now, is that if you've got something 624 00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:37.400 happening locally, go to the congressman, go to the center and demand action 625 00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:40.679 and get them to write an official And I've even done in Canada, we 626 00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:45.280 have members of parliament and I actually had a member of parliament here write an 627 00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:52.360 official letter to the government and get responses from the government on Wilbur Smith, 628 00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:54.840 who ran the Canadian government UFO program, and I was pushing him and he 629 00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:58.960 was, you know, doing this kind of stuff for me, and it 630 00:47:59.079 --> 00:48:02.119 even worked in my case. The problem was that Thennis guy became member of 631 00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:07.559 the government, and if he's in the government, then he suddenly it's his 632 00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:08.960 government and he's not going to do anything. And it ended for me. 633 00:48:09.039 --> 00:48:12.920 But it did work for me, and I think it'll work for anybody who 634 00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:16.320 has a local sighting or something happens, especially like a mutilation, where there's 635 00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:21.880 damage and there's you can get action and then keep the pressure on the congressman 636 00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:25.280 and you can work officially through there. And there's a number of examples that 637 00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:31.320 show that this is kind of an effective way of getting something done. Now 638 00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:37.679 to this point, especially with the Obama administration, I mean, do you 639 00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:44.679 have I mean, this is the one as far as presidents go, who 640 00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:51.679 at least passed Presidents Ray and Clinton, especially George Bush, like you just 641 00:48:51.800 --> 00:48:55.440 mentioned, have at least been based even with you. You addressed that you 642 00:48:55.559 --> 00:49:00.719 asked a great question of Dick Cheney. They've been They've at least had to 643 00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:07.840 speak to the situation. Obama seems to have absolutely no interest in this build 644 00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:16.280 whatsoever. He showed no indication of having any interest. Would you agree with 645 00:49:16.280 --> 00:49:21.400 that? Yeah, exactly. He even when he was campaigning, as you 646 00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:24.599 know, he was asked a question about the alien thing. If you discover, 647 00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:29.199 if you've become president, find out that we've been visited by aliens, 648 00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:31.480 would you tell the people? And he, of course, the way a 649 00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:35.920 lot of politicians will deal with there's the way Obama deal with it. He 650 00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:37.199 said, good politicians. He made a joke out of it. He said, 651 00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:42.639 well, it depends whether they're Republicans or Democrats. And he was asked 652 00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:45.519 a question at the at the when he was campaigning, this question about life 653 00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:51.519 and outer space, and he actually truthfully stated his position that, you know, 654 00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:53.760 there may be people coming from other planets here, but that's not my 655 00:49:53.840 --> 00:49:58.760 interest. My interest and his interest is you know, the social policy and 656 00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:01.559 the education and the poor people and all this sort of stuff, and that's 657 00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:05.800 his bottom line. And even during the campaign, if you remember back to 658 00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:13.159 the the the Texas uh uh uh Caucus or whatever they had down there, 659 00:50:13.800 --> 00:50:21.199 uh, that was when Bill Clinton wayde made this big speech at NASA in 660 00:50:21.280 --> 00:50:27.719 Houston and basically said this president uh or president or Obama is not a friend 661 00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:32.679 of space, that Hillary is the person who's interested in space and you should 662 00:50:32.719 --> 00:50:37.199 vote for for Hillary. So Bill was saying directly at that point that he 663 00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:42.119 was not even interested in space, and you can see that right now. 664 00:50:42.320 --> 00:50:45.599 Basically NASA has basically been shut down and he wants it to go private, 665 00:50:46.239 --> 00:50:52.079 and it's just that it's not his his his interest and it's so hard to 666 00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:54.400 get to the president to get an issue to the president that if a president 667 00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:57.480 really doesn't want to deal with it, there's not much you're going to deal 668 00:50:57.519 --> 00:51:00.320 with it because the White House Press Corps is not going to and asked the 669 00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:05.079 question unless something happens, because they're all afraid of their jobs. You don't 670 00:51:05.079 --> 00:51:07.719 want your White House Press passed pulled because you asked some stupid UFO question. 671 00:51:08.039 --> 00:51:14.519 And you can see now in terms of the Republicans, we have an issue 672 00:51:14.599 --> 00:51:22.159 where nobody's asked the Republicans about it. We haven't even requested, So why 673 00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:27.599 would the president deal with it if nobody's asking the question? And that's basically 674 00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:30.199 what comes down to. If you go to my presidential UFO website, you'll 675 00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:37.480 see I've got the big UFO request from the from the Clintonston Library, and 676 00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:39.480 that was the big request on UFO's flying saucers, you know, the regular 677 00:51:39.559 --> 00:51:43.760 request, and it came back with nine hundred pages. And in there, 678 00:51:43.800 --> 00:51:45.599 if you take a look at those nine hundred pages, how many letters written 679 00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:49.719 to Bill Clinton about UFOs, like, mister President, do something? There 680 00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:53.599 basically are none. And that's over eight years of presidency. That we sort 681 00:51:53.599 --> 00:51:59.000 of think that we're we're doing big things and we're putting pressure and basically you 682 00:51:59.039 --> 00:52:02.039 go and look and nobody's asking questions. Nobody's putting pressure on them, nobody's 683 00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:07.440 asking the Republicans, We're we're just sort of sitting back and it becomes I 684 00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:12.000 think one of our big problems is it's to a lot of us. To 685 00:52:12.119 --> 00:52:15.280 you and I are a couple of researchers, we're kind of fanatical and we 686 00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:19.199 spend all our time doing it, and all our relatives and friends think we're 687 00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:21.960 a little bit weird, like, so what's the big deal and stuff like 688 00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:24.119 that. But the vast majority of the UFO community, it's like an interesting 689 00:52:24.159 --> 00:52:28.000 it's like ghosts or life after death. It's like we'd like to read the 690 00:52:28.039 --> 00:52:30.760 books. And then you have the conference and everybody's like, oh, well 691 00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:32.760 you can go to the holiday. We'll go to the conference and listen to 692 00:52:32.840 --> 00:52:36.920 these interesting speakers and at the end of this, you know, you hear 693 00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:40.119 the speaker, and nobody goes on to the next one. Nobody goes and 694 00:52:40.199 --> 00:52:43.599 deals with that speaker, talks to the speaker. They just go on to 695 00:52:43.599 --> 00:52:45.719 the next one. And it's like an entertainment factor to a lot of people 696 00:52:45.719 --> 00:52:50.239 who are following the UFO community. We don't have that serious, hardcore thing 697 00:52:50.320 --> 00:52:52.239 because I think a lot of it has got to do it. It's not 698 00:52:52.320 --> 00:52:55.719 an issue of money. It's like if we're all losing our jobs because of 699 00:52:55.719 --> 00:52:59.639 it, well then people would get upset, or if there was people getting 700 00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:04.360 killed or or whatever. There's just nothing to really motivate it except sort of 701 00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:07.000 like a curiosity and interest in this in this type of thing, and that's 702 00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:10.679 not something that's going to motivate somebody to go and uh, you know, 703 00:53:12.800 --> 00:53:16.280 stat outside the White House for three weeks or petition or do whatever, or 704 00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:22.119 it doesn't play for politics. Politics is about, and especially in the United 705 00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:27.440 States, it's about things that are related to money. Where the most capitalistic 706 00:53:27.880 --> 00:53:32.440 country, I think probably in the world it's got to relate to the economy, 707 00:53:32.599 --> 00:53:39.880 creating jobs or or hampering jobs, something like that around the economy. 708 00:53:39.880 --> 00:53:44.199 And this doesn't have anything to do with the economy. If they do pulling, 709 00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:46.679 it's basically comes down to and I've said this numerous times, it comes 710 00:53:46.679 --> 00:53:51.280 down to getting elected. It's got nothing to do with solving issues. Got 711 00:53:51.280 --> 00:53:54.039 to do with how do you get elected? So you you you pull and 712 00:53:54.119 --> 00:53:57.719 the ten talk issues. That's what you're going to deal with. That's what 713 00:53:57.760 --> 00:54:00.760 you're gonna be. I'm gonna be the messiah. I've got to save you 714 00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:04.400 from what the tech you read those ten top things, the UFOs wouldn't be 715 00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:07.239 in the top two hundred, right, you pold there would be, there 716 00:54:07.239 --> 00:54:12.000 would be nothing there. And so that that's where they You can't really blame 717 00:54:12.039 --> 00:54:15.079 them for not dealing with it, because why would you bring up an issue 718 00:54:15.480 --> 00:54:21.280 that really nobody really is questioning you about or or concerned about. They basically 719 00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:25.599 are at things that get them elected. And a lot of the things one 720 00:54:25.599 --> 00:54:29.480 has actually worked in our behalf, which sort of shows you how this game 721 00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:34.000 is played in the nineteen In nineteen, Clinton was dealing with Rockefeller. From 722 00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:40.440 ninety three to ninety ninety six, and he actually met with Rockefeller in August 723 00:54:40.480 --> 00:54:44.679 of nineteen ninety five when when they went to the Rockefeller ranch. Now a 724 00:54:44.679 --> 00:54:46.000 lot of people think, well, he went to the Rockefeller ranch and there 725 00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:51.119 was this UFO thing. People don't. If you look exactly what happened behind 726 00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:53.880 the scenes, you'll see how this actually took place. And that was that 727 00:54:53.920 --> 00:54:59.480 Dick Morris. Clinton was in a lot of trouble in ninety five for re 728 00:54:59.559 --> 00:55:01.840 election and looked like he wasn't going to get reelected, and he brought on 729 00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:06.960 Dick Morris to as his advisor. And these are these campaign guys who are 730 00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:08.840 the guys who actually get them elected, and they read the polls and they 731 00:55:08.920 --> 00:55:13.639 figure out how to do it. And what Dick Morris came up with is, 732 00:55:13.760 --> 00:55:16.599 you've got to go and you've got to spend your holiday in the wilderness. 733 00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:21.480 Clinton used to spend his holiday at the Hamptons with all the rich guys, 734 00:55:21.480 --> 00:55:23.239 and they'd go at golfing and they'd go to cocktail parties and have a 735 00:55:23.239 --> 00:55:27.599 good old time at you with all the rich people at the Hamptons. And 736 00:55:27.639 --> 00:55:31.079 he said, no, you've got to go to the wilderness because Dick Morrison 737 00:55:31.159 --> 00:55:36.119 determined in nineteen ninety six elections the swing voters. You gonna have your people 738 00:55:36.119 --> 00:55:38.000 who vote vote Republican all the time, people who were vote Democrat all the 739 00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:42.079 time. Everybody wants the swing voters, so you pull the swing voters. 740 00:55:42.079 --> 00:55:45.480 What does the swing voters want? And in nineteen ninety five, Dick Morris 741 00:55:45.480 --> 00:55:49.480 to determine the swing voters wanted somebody who was into They were into technology, 742 00:55:49.719 --> 00:55:52.480 they were into the outdoors, they were into fishing and camping and skiing and 743 00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:55.920 all this kind of stuff. So Clinton went to the Rockefeller Wrench. Not 744 00:55:55.960 --> 00:55:59.639 because he wanted to go to the Rockefeller Wrench, because in nineteen ninety six 745 00:55:59.679 --> 00:56:01.440 elections he was trying to get the swing voters, so he had to go 746 00:56:01.599 --> 00:56:06.519 camping. He hated it. It's well known that he he hated being really 747 00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:09.199 that's because he had to go. And he made the joke about doing the 748 00:56:09.199 --> 00:56:14.960 whitewater rafting, and you know, he wanted to be with it with the 749 00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:17.039 buddies in the Hamptons, but he had to go to the Rockefeller Ranch. 750 00:56:17.239 --> 00:56:21.800 And that was because Dick Morris had had told him that you need the swing 751 00:56:21.880 --> 00:56:23.639 voters. And that's why he went there to to the wilderness. He had 752 00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:28.199 no intention of going to to Wyoming. That was the last place he wanted 753 00:56:28.199 --> 00:56:30.440 to go and spend his holidays. So this is what people have to realize 754 00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:36.679 what's going on behind the scenes. Is the day that ethology can get them 755 00:56:36.679 --> 00:56:39.440 some votes or cause him some trouble, that's the day they're going to deal 756 00:56:39.480 --> 00:56:44.320 with it. But as long as it's it's it doesn't really matter. They've 757 00:56:44.360 --> 00:56:46.760 got so many things that they're that they're going to get them votes that this 758 00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:50.880 is not something you were going to spend any time on whatsoever. Well, 759 00:56:50.920 --> 00:56:54.320 in fact, and you know from from Gustich, who uh was a guy 760 00:56:54.360 --> 00:56:59.239 who had you know, a major UFO sighting, not just a sighting, 761 00:56:59.400 --> 00:57:01.400 he had a encounter. He was like two hundred yards away from this thing, 762 00:57:01.639 --> 00:57:06.280 sitting right right there, he and a couple of witnesses, and he 763 00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:12.920 gets cornered in the Democratic debate about this thing. And I followed the polls, 764 00:57:13.039 --> 00:57:16.280 or not the polls, but the newspaper articles after he admitted that he'd 765 00:57:16.280 --> 00:57:20.960 seen this UFO and there was hundreds of articles written about him, you know, 766 00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:24.239 trying to get Cheney impeached and all different issues and every single one of 767 00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:29.119 them sort of referred to him as this crazy UFO guy. And so if 768 00:57:29.480 --> 00:57:31.559 he backed the way, and if Caucinich, who's a pretty hardcore guy, 769 00:57:32.280 --> 00:57:37.440 Danny Sheen had run his policy on his one campaign, he was a pretty 770 00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:43.159 guy guy who's open and is not afraid to say things. If he backs 771 00:57:43.199 --> 00:57:45.880 off the UFO issue, then you can tell how toxic this thing is. 772 00:57:46.039 --> 00:57:50.039 And everybody can just take a look if you're a politician, look at what 773 00:57:50.119 --> 00:57:52.840 happened to Kucinach and think is this going to help me get reelected or is 774 00:57:52.880 --> 00:57:57.559 it not? And people always think that it's a game of he wants to 775 00:57:57.559 --> 00:58:00.280 help us, He's the Messiah, He's going to come and solve all our 776 00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:02.400 problems. It's not. These guys have huge egos. They want to get 777 00:58:02.400 --> 00:58:06.599 elected and they want to get re elected, and you need votes, and 778 00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:09.320 that's what it all comes down to, is getting re elected. And you 779 00:58:09.760 --> 00:58:13.760 can't solve anything unless you get re elected. And you can see all over 780 00:58:13.800 --> 00:58:17.159 the world these these sort of crazy leaders who hang on the power. It's 781 00:58:17.400 --> 00:58:22.000 it's it's sort of talks to that they've got to have the power, and 782 00:58:22.039 --> 00:58:25.400 it's all about votes. It's all about getting elected. And I say that 783 00:58:27.519 --> 00:58:30.239 it's off that. Yeah, we're in trouble if we start thinking there's something 784 00:58:30.239 --> 00:58:34.320 else going on in politics, we're off track as to what we have to 785 00:58:34.360 --> 00:58:40.039 do to actually get the UFO issue out there front and center or solved or 786 00:58:40.039 --> 00:58:45.119 disclosure or whatever you want to call it. Right now, we're doing some 787 00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:50.039 things that really don't mesh with what's actually what's actually going on behind the scenes. 788 00:58:50.239 --> 00:58:53.400 Right got to be more savvy. And that's why I like what you 789 00:58:53.480 --> 00:58:59.039 do. And I like hitting on the history because a lot of people forget 790 00:58:59.079 --> 00:59:04.960 about the history because history can teach us a lot, and the history in 791 00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:08.039 this field has taught us. I think over and over again what you just 792 00:59:08.199 --> 00:59:15.519 said, because there have been these politicians in some cases who have been very 793 00:59:15.559 --> 00:59:22.679 serious. You mentioned earlier Congressman Shift, but you also have Barry Goldwater, 794 00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:29.639 you have Gerald Ford, you have Clinton himself, you have the un These 795 00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:34.480 were big projects. These were big happenings where people were pushing hard. We 796 00:59:34.599 --> 00:59:39.280 want answers on UFOs, and it shows a political route no matter what kind 797 00:59:39.360 --> 00:59:45.280 of strength or people you have behind it has not been effective. Yeah, 798 00:59:45.519 --> 00:59:50.719 for the Ford is a prime example. Because Ford do. People might not 799 00:59:50.800 --> 00:59:54.559 know that jail Heinig was in his constituency and he had to sing with the 800 00:59:55.960 --> 01:00:01.719 with the fightings in Michigan, which was his this area, and he was 801 01:00:01.760 --> 01:00:07.000 getting you know, questions from constituents and stuff like that, and then Heine 802 01:00:07.079 --> 01:00:09.920 came up made the stupid statement about the swamp gas and then he was infuriated. 803 01:00:10.159 --> 01:00:15.440 Yeah, that Congressional one one. He's sort of hearing and then what 804 01:00:15.440 --> 01:00:21.440 hearing? And then he's sixty eight one when other congressmen realized they've been we're 805 01:00:21.440 --> 01:00:23.599 taking for a ride, and that went. But then you see what happens 806 01:00:23.639 --> 01:00:28.400 once he gets to the White House. He becomes the president. His political 807 01:00:28.440 --> 01:00:31.000 cover is gone. He's no longer just a you know, a congressman who's 808 01:00:31.039 --> 01:00:35.559 fighting for his constituents. Suddenly he's the president. It's his cover up in 809 01:00:35.559 --> 01:00:37.400 his UFO thing, and suddenly he goes silent. He doesn't do anything, 810 01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:42.760 the same as Jimmy Carter. Jman Carter was very vocal about UFOs before he 811 01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:45.559 got into the presidency. He was running and he was, you know, 812 01:00:45.760 --> 01:00:49.159 he's had short sleeves, didn't wear the tie. He was going to be, 813 01:00:49.199 --> 01:00:52.519 you know, with the outsider from outside of Washington and stuff like that, 814 01:00:52.639 --> 01:00:54.679 and he was it was an issue that he was with the people. 815 01:00:54.920 --> 01:00:58.880 We'd like some answer to this, I've seen something. I'd like some answers. 816 01:00:59.000 --> 01:01:01.440 As soon as he gets in, it's like dead sounds because his political 817 01:01:01.480 --> 01:01:06.559 cover is gone. And at these local levels. There's a lot of examples. 818 01:01:06.719 --> 01:01:09.639 Even though the bizarre Lazarre thing, which I discovered when I wrote the 819 01:01:10.119 --> 01:01:15.599 Area fifty one article, is that Bob Lazar had a congressman who was backing 820 01:01:15.639 --> 01:01:21.920 him, who really George Knapp was using to because there was so much dispute 821 01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:25.199 about the Palace s W two form and all this kind of stuff, and 822 01:01:25.239 --> 01:01:30.119 he was writing these official letters, getting official answers as to who this guy 823 01:01:30.360 --> 01:01:32.960 was, his tax records and all this sort of stuff. And even in 824 01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:37.119 these bizarre cases, people don't know that there was congressmen who were involved, 825 01:01:37.119 --> 01:01:40.840 that he wrote a letter on behalf of Lazarre when he went to court in 826 01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:45.119 nineteen ninety one or whatever it was on this pandering chart. So you can 827 01:01:45.199 --> 01:01:49.960 get these people on your side, and they can do a lot of damage 828 01:01:49.960 --> 01:01:53.519 because they can write official letters and you can't slip off a congressman or a 829 01:01:53.519 --> 01:01:58.960 senator, and a lot of them will do it because they actually are closer 830 01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:01.920 to the vote. They know that your vote counts and that you can you 831 01:02:01.960 --> 01:02:07.199 can cause some trouble, and they're trying to show that their answering constituents demands 832 01:02:07.239 --> 01:02:10.000 and stuff like that, writing letters on everyhal They do this on all sorts 833 01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:14.519 of subjects, and we should so you're saying, but just to clarify there 834 01:02:14.920 --> 01:02:20.079 that Bob Lazar had a congressman that was sympathetic to his cause, and the 835 01:02:20.159 --> 01:02:23.400 cause being that Bob Lazar said he worked at Area fifty one and worked on 836 01:02:24.039 --> 01:02:30.679 back engineered daily in technology. This congressman believed that, and so this congressman, 837 01:02:30.639 --> 01:02:36.679 because of that, helped him when Lazarre had some legal problems. Okay, 838 01:02:36.719 --> 01:02:38.280 just of the bit of clarification. I think it was like believed it. 839 01:02:38.280 --> 01:02:42.960 It was that that I think George Knapp, but George and Paston really 840 01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:45.320 explained this whole thing. But it was James Bill Bray who was the guy, 841 01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:51.599 and I think Napp was using Bill Bray to get answers, like we 842 01:02:51.840 --> 01:02:54.480 need some answers on this WT form. I know that was one of the 843 01:02:54.480 --> 01:02:58.639 things that we're looking at. Was was trying to get this this established? 844 01:02:58.679 --> 01:03:04.159 Was this an official document like with this withy Babar had at W two that 845 01:03:04.199 --> 01:03:07.599 said it was from the Navy right department of the Navy, and he said, 846 01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:10.400 this proves that I did work at Area fifty one. So so Napp 847 01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:14.280 was using this kind of stuff Turner, he was trying to track down all 848 01:03:14.320 --> 01:03:19.079 this official material, trying to get some official acknowledgment that he'd worked at Les 849 01:03:19.079 --> 01:03:22.039 Alamos, or he'd worked at Area fifty one, that he was getting paid, 850 01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:23.079 this sort of stuff, and he was going through Bill Bray, and 851 01:03:23.119 --> 01:03:28.239 Bill Bray as as any congressman would have to do, was writing letters on 852 01:03:28.280 --> 01:03:30.239 his behalf, which are official letters, Whereas if Knapp were to write to 853 01:03:30.239 --> 01:03:32.400 the Defense Environment, they would just sort of, you know, like who 854 01:03:32.440 --> 01:03:37.320 cares, yeah letter. A congressman or a senator has a lot of a 855 01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:42.119 lot of clout in terms of they have to answer his letter. They can't 856 01:03:42.119 --> 01:03:45.559 just sluff him off. And that's what happened with with with Stephen Schiff is 857 01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:49.840 that they sluffed him off to the And if you read and I've written an 858 01:03:49.880 --> 01:03:52.320 article, I've never published it yet, but I wrote an article really details 859 01:03:52.360 --> 01:03:57.239 what happened with Ship. And he was furious when they sent him to the 860 01:03:57.360 --> 01:04:00.000 to the National Archives, and he realized that they were just running them around. 861 01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:03.599 And then he went back to Clinton's Secretary of Defense and then the Secretary 862 01:04:03.639 --> 01:04:08.119 Defense wouldn't answer his letters. He got curious, and that's he had the 863 01:04:08.159 --> 01:04:15.039 power for whatever. He had his power to authorize this investigation by the Accounting 864 01:04:15.039 --> 01:04:16.719 Office, and it was just his position. He said, okay, you 865 01:04:16.719 --> 01:04:20.920 want to play that game. That's when the the Accounting Office came in and 866 01:04:20.960 --> 01:04:27.280 forced them to rein investigate Rosweld. And it was because Shift got upset because 867 01:04:27.280 --> 01:04:30.639 he was being he was being jerked around by by the Department of Defense and 868 01:04:31.639 --> 01:04:35.920 sent to all sorts of places and was realized he was getting the run around. 869 01:04:36.119 --> 01:04:42.280 And of course the Air Force or the report that Shift forced said there 870 01:04:42.320 --> 01:04:45.800 was nothing to roswold. Yeah, they still play that game, but you 871 01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:47.960 can get close. In fact, you got close twice in the Roswell thing. 872 01:04:48.039 --> 01:04:50.840 People. Some people don't realize there was too Roswell reports. It was 873 01:04:50.840 --> 01:04:55.280 the first one that came out and that was forced by There was actually a 874 01:04:55.440 --> 01:04:58.360 number of forts. There was the Shift report, which was different than the 875 01:04:58.400 --> 01:05:03.239 Air Force report. The Air Force report was forced by Rockefeller, and Rockefeller 876 01:05:03.280 --> 01:05:06.760 had gone in and said they basically said, well, you know, we 877 01:05:06.920 --> 01:05:10.960 really can't do anything and stuff. And he said, you know, I'm 878 01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:14.920 thinking of putting a major ad in all the major newspapers in the United States 879 01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:15.920 asking for disclosure. They said, okay, hang on, hang on, 880 01:05:16.039 --> 01:05:26.480 We'll do And it was they requested like the Rockefeller was asking for the amnesty, 881 01:05:27.039 --> 01:05:30.000 which was granted by the Secretary of the Air Force in ninety three. 882 01:05:30.039 --> 01:05:33.559 They gave amnesty to all the Roswell people. That was Rockefeller pushed that, 883 01:05:33.639 --> 01:05:36.639 and Rockefeller won of the investigations. So there was the Air Force and then 884 01:05:36.639 --> 01:05:41.760 there was the GOA report, which is two separate. But when the Air 885 01:05:41.800 --> 01:05:46.400 Force report came back that Rockefeller had forced through the Science Advisor, it went 886 01:05:46.480 --> 01:05:50.239 back and Clinton saw it. And then Clinton goes to Belfast, Northern Ireland 887 01:05:50.320 --> 01:05:54.760 to light the Christmas tree in November of nineteen ninety five, and that's when 888 01:05:54.760 --> 01:06:00.400 he stands up and he challenges the report indirectly. He says, if there 889 01:06:00.559 --> 01:06:04.480 was no crash at Rosweld, but if the Air Force did recover bodies, 890 01:06:04.639 --> 01:06:08.440 they didn't tell me about it, and I want to know, and I 891 01:06:08.480 --> 01:06:12.280 went off to the speeches and that I want to know part wasn't in the 892 01:06:12.320 --> 01:06:15.199 original speech. Wow, Clinton had lived that when he gave the speech, 893 01:06:15.199 --> 01:06:18.239 he said, I want to know. And so in nineteen ninety seven, 894 01:06:18.599 --> 01:06:24.679 the Air Force does a second Roswell report, and nobody's ever explained until you 895 01:06:24.679 --> 01:06:27.639 you see this speech in nineteen ninety five, the Clinton gave as to why 896 01:06:27.639 --> 01:06:30.719 did they do a second report? The second report they come out with the 897 01:06:30.760 --> 01:06:33.440 bodies, the stupid story about the six foot wooden dummies that were dropped in 898 01:06:33.480 --> 01:06:39.840 nineteen fifty three and the time shifting, all this nonsense. And that was 899 01:06:39.960 --> 01:06:44.039 the Air Force getting stuck by Clinton to say, I don't believe you. 900 01:06:44.039 --> 01:06:46.280 You didn't explain the bodies because there's no report of the bodies in the first 901 01:06:46.360 --> 01:06:49.960 Roswell report. They don't talk about the people seeing the little alien bodies. 902 01:06:50.119 --> 01:06:53.480 So the Air Force has to go back and explain the bodies. So they 903 01:06:53.519 --> 01:06:56.079 go back and do a second Roswell report, and they put it back on 904 01:06:56.119 --> 01:06:59.519 the President's desk and say here's your answer to the air to the bodies, 905 01:06:59.559 --> 01:07:02.199 and Clinton and is now it's his Air Force so he's stuck, he can't 906 01:07:02.199 --> 01:07:05.320 do anything, and he just gives up. And there are actually two reports 907 01:07:05.320 --> 01:07:10.599 and this is one is forced forced by by Shift and the second one is 908 01:07:10.639 --> 01:07:15.000 forced by Clinton because Clinton got upset right first row report. So this is 909 01:07:15.239 --> 01:07:19.079 the way it works, is that sometimes I think disclosure may come from somebody's 910 01:07:19.159 --> 01:07:24.639 just pushing a congressman, or something happens and some president or some congressman just 911 01:07:24.639 --> 01:07:28.320 gets upset and decides, I'm gonna run with this thing. Now. To 912 01:07:28.320 --> 01:07:30.239 clarify, you've seen it the number of times in the past that this has 913 01:07:30.280 --> 01:07:33.519 happened. In fact, I say that if you take a look through uiful 914 01:07:33.599 --> 01:07:38.679 history and take a look at all the highlights of uoful history where things have 915 01:07:38.760 --> 01:07:41.920 happened, it's always happened that way. And that's a pattern that I think 916 01:07:41.960 --> 01:07:44.760 we should take a look at, we should follow, and we should try 917 01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:47.000 to put pressure in. The Kansas City thing was a prime thing, or 918 01:07:47.000 --> 01:07:50.840 the Phoenix Lights thing. If people in Phoenix had really gotten on top of 919 01:07:50.880 --> 01:07:55.639 that Phoenix Light thing and had gone to the congressman and put pressure on him, 920 01:07:55.960 --> 01:08:03.840 something would have happened. Now the congress these councilwoman had gone to McCain 921 01:08:04.519 --> 01:08:09.760 and McCain had gone and asked questions about the Phoenix Light thing. So but 922 01:08:09.920 --> 01:08:14.679 it just gave up. Nobody there was enough pressure on John McCain to keep 923 01:08:14.679 --> 01:08:17.840 this thing going. But there there If the Phoenix people had gotten this thing 924 01:08:18.199 --> 01:08:24.800 and really put pressure on it would have a Congressman would have had some footing 925 01:08:24.920 --> 01:08:30.159 to to put some pressure on, to put some pressure to get a response 926 01:08:30.319 --> 01:08:33.079 that just bluffs everybody off, Like has been the result of all of these 927 01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:39.159 though, I mean even Chiff and all of these kind of just like what 928 01:08:39.159 --> 01:08:42.960 what Bassett received, all of these kind of fluff answers that come back. 929 01:08:43.199 --> 01:08:45.760 But but the Shift thing was an official thing. They spent millions of dollars 930 01:08:45.840 --> 01:08:48.760 on this study, right, and they had to scramble to walk their way 931 01:08:48.760 --> 01:08:51.520 out of the thing. The I say, when when it comes to the 932 01:08:51.560 --> 01:08:58.000 Phil Larson response from the White House, this is the worst, absolute worst 933 01:08:58.039 --> 01:09:00.479 response we've ever gotten. This is pre ninety forty seven. If you take 934 01:09:00.479 --> 01:09:05.000 a look at the the Group of report, they basically said, okay, 935 01:09:05.039 --> 01:09:10.239 there's you know, whatever percentage twenty two percent unknowns, but we don't believe 936 01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:13.600 it's national security, and we don't believe this there was a little bit of 937 01:09:14.439 --> 01:09:16.199 light at the end of the tunnel that there was something to it. We 938 01:09:16.279 --> 01:09:20.680 just don't believe it's national security and there's not enough evidence or whatever. This 939 01:09:20.720 --> 01:09:25.279 thing says, there's nothing. There's absolutely nothing to the subject at all. 940 01:09:25.439 --> 01:09:35.119 But said in Martin's defense though he's addressing specifically extraterrestrial intelligence, that's people's interpretation. 941 01:09:35.720 --> 01:09:39.840 That's people's interpretation is I don't know if Larsen would have read it that 942 01:09:39.880 --> 01:09:42.319 way, that we're going to play by the word and say, okay, 943 01:09:42.399 --> 01:09:46.279 this is eke. I think it was just like in fact he said if 944 01:09:46.319 --> 01:09:50.840 you remember the fa where he says we got stuck, but I don't think 945 01:09:50.840 --> 01:09:56.039 he uses the word ekey, we got stuck with the alien something, right, 946 01:09:56.319 --> 01:09:59.800 Kevin, What the wording was he he's writing to somebody and he said, 947 01:10:00.640 --> 01:10:03.960 we got tagged having to answer this, and he uses alien something, 948 01:10:03.960 --> 01:10:08.159 but he doesn't use the word et. So I think that's an interpretation people 949 01:10:08.199 --> 01:10:10.800 have that if we changed the word eke, he might have answered it. 950 01:10:11.039 --> 01:10:14.199 There was no chance that they're going to touch it. They know it's UFO 951 01:10:14.279 --> 01:10:15.479 is a cup. Well, I think they would have fucked it off. 952 01:10:15.479 --> 01:10:18.920 But they wouldn't have addressed et it would have been a different answer. I 953 01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:23.920 think it would have been really interesting to see what that answer would have been. 954 01:10:24.439 --> 01:10:30.880 But if it was worded properly, like for instance, the Zabel Dolean 955 01:10:30.960 --> 01:10:35.680 one or whatever one, because Robert Solace had written one also which wasn't was 956 01:10:35.720 --> 01:10:45.000 addressing the phenomena of the unknowns rather than the extraterrestrials, and so it might 957 01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:48.000 have been a different answer because this is certainly extra treastural, and it gives 958 01:10:48.039 --> 01:10:54.399 him an easier answer because right now, astrobiology is a big deal. I 959 01:10:54.439 --> 01:10:59.119 mean, people in the astrobiology is in the news every day about this possible 960 01:10:59.159 --> 01:11:02.960 planet having life from Mars possibly having life and the Moon, and we're closer 961 01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:11.119 to this, so there's an official kind of stance or mainstream stand out there 962 01:11:11.840 --> 01:11:15.079 that is discussed on a regular basis. Okay, But the difference between that 963 01:11:15.279 --> 01:11:20.239 is and he Larsen was with Mars project, he had a Mars background. 964 01:11:20.720 --> 01:11:25.800 And I bring this up is that if if you're talking about you know, 965 01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:30.680 some planet out you know, wherever, it's no threat, everybody can hypothesize 966 01:11:30.680 --> 01:11:32.960 that there's gonna be some sort of ety life as long as it doesn't look 967 01:11:32.960 --> 01:11:39.039 like ours because evolution doesn't allow to exactly species to be the same. So 968 01:11:39.119 --> 01:11:42.239 you've got planets out there, you've got something going on on Mars. Whatever. 969 01:11:42.520 --> 01:11:45.640 That's not a threat. It's when it's here. And that's where I 970 01:11:45.680 --> 01:11:49.359 said that that Larsen, despite the fact he had really no input in the 971 01:11:49.399 --> 01:11:55.000 whole thing, is not going to say yes, even if it's UFOs, 972 01:11:55.079 --> 01:12:00.399 yes, we I think we should take a look at upo's and properly investigate 973 01:12:00.840 --> 01:12:05.560 incidents involving planes. I think what he would have said is probably something like 974 01:12:05.880 --> 01:12:12.399 people misidentify things all the time, or something fluffy like that, and maybe 975 01:12:12.399 --> 01:12:15.520 even thrown in the goofy thing with the lady from Setie I can't remember her 976 01:12:15.600 --> 01:12:18.039 name, who says, oh, you know, I thought I saw you 977 01:12:18.159 --> 01:12:21.079 upon it turned out to be the moon. Yeah, I mean, I 978 01:12:21.119 --> 01:12:25.359 see, but there's a threat there. In terms of vested interest, you 979 01:12:25.399 --> 01:12:30.159 got people have to remember that the Office of the Science Advisor has got a 980 01:12:30.199 --> 01:12:33.279 bunch of vested interest. In one is, you just sent a probe to 981 01:12:33.359 --> 01:12:38.760 Mars which costs two and a half billion dollars. It's one dollars over budget 982 01:12:39.079 --> 01:12:42.680 to drill a hole in a rock looking for some sort of evidence that there's 983 01:12:42.720 --> 01:12:47.479 some sort of micro evidence of life. And so if you suddenly say, 984 01:12:47.920 --> 01:12:51.359 say say they would answer to the DOLE in petition say okay, yes we 985 01:12:51.399 --> 01:12:58.319 should properly, we should properly reinvestigate UFO sightings here on Earth and give it 986 01:12:58.479 --> 01:13:02.039 a proper scientific investigation. Who's going to spend two and a half billion dollars 987 01:13:02.079 --> 01:13:06.239 for another probe if you just suddenly admit that, yes, maybe there is 988 01:13:06.560 --> 01:13:11.960 some evidence that they're already here. Well, but I don't think that two 989 01:13:12.000 --> 01:13:15.920 things are necessarily connected, because of course, every a lot of people feel 990 01:13:15.960 --> 01:13:24.159 that. Not everybody's invested in the extraterrestrial hypotheses, even people who are asking 991 01:13:24.359 --> 01:13:28.920 for people to look into the UFO phenomena, Nick Pope for example, Or 992 01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:32.239 there's a lot of people, the UAP people, maybe you could call them, 993 01:13:32.560 --> 01:13:39.199 who believe there could be other answers Jacques Vallet, even j Allen Heinek 994 01:13:39.279 --> 01:13:45.840 himself that there could be other answers other than extraterrestrill So one doesn't necessarily mean 995 01:13:45.840 --> 01:13:53.720 the other. Okay, but I still think there's that for Larsen to be 996 01:13:53.800 --> 01:13:58.119 a Mars guy. But I see your point I mean that he said that 997 01:13:58.159 --> 01:14:01.640 we should be looking here on Earth. It gets very hard for you if 998 01:14:01.680 --> 01:14:03.840 if you go out in front of Congress and you want another two and a 999 01:14:03.840 --> 01:14:08.760 half billion dollars to send another probe to drill holes in Mars, They're going 1000 01:14:08.840 --> 01:14:12.239 to say, well, you're looking here on earth. I mean, why 1001 01:14:12.239 --> 01:14:14.399 don't you just you know, it's a lot cheaper. Why don't we just 1002 01:14:14.560 --> 01:14:15.960 spend this. Why should we give you two and a half billion dollars. 1003 01:14:15.960 --> 01:14:19.159 There's a lot of best at interest, a lot of jobs at stake in 1004 01:14:19.439 --> 01:14:25.640 keeping this thing suppressed that that mar I mean NASA. I mean if if 1005 01:14:25.720 --> 01:14:28.880 it were actually admitted that that you had disclosure and there was UFOs, I 1006 01:14:28.920 --> 01:14:30.840 mean, what happens to NASA? Like, who's gonna spend billions of dollars 1007 01:14:30.920 --> 01:14:34.720 on NASA? When suddenly it becomes apparent that they're already here and like what 1008 01:14:34.760 --> 01:14:38.239 do we spend This is like a you know, you get to John leear 1009 01:14:38.359 --> 01:14:41.760 argument that this is like some big, huge pr thing to you know, 1010 01:14:41.880 --> 01:14:45.760 to scam people, and everybody's gonna suddenly get that idea like what we've been 1011 01:14:45.840 --> 01:14:48.119 taken taken for a ride here that they've already's been lying to us, and 1012 01:14:48.680 --> 01:14:51.560 the NASA thing just falls apart, and it's in trouble already. And that's 1013 01:14:51.560 --> 01:14:57.880 one of the reasons why in the Carter administration and now again NASA wouldn't touch 1014 01:14:57.880 --> 01:15:00.079 this thing with a ten foot pole, because, I mean, their budget's 1015 01:15:00.079 --> 01:15:04.239 been cut. This is not their their their thing to do. Their thing 1016 01:15:04.279 --> 01:15:09.560 is to go and explore outer space, and it's it's nobody's real issue. 1017 01:15:09.600 --> 01:15:13.319 And then you get to the issue with with that. John Alexander brings up, 1018 01:15:13.319 --> 01:15:16.720 which I agree with, is people who are pushing for congressional studies and 1019 01:15:16.760 --> 01:15:20.239 all this kind of stuff. He always says, be careful what you wish 1020 01:15:20.279 --> 01:15:24.800 for. You may get it. The Congress may take this issue, take 1021 01:15:24.800 --> 01:15:28.319 a look at it, and there's so much power behind the scenes that they're 1022 01:15:28.319 --> 01:15:30.960 going to come out with another blue book thing and say this is an absolute 1023 01:15:30.039 --> 01:15:33.760 pile of nonsense. Then where do you go mm hmm that that there's there's 1024 01:15:33.800 --> 01:15:40.079 these forces behind that will even if you can get it, and you need, 1025 01:15:40.279 --> 01:15:43.479 you know, piles of Congressmen and senators to sort of buy onto this 1026 01:15:43.520 --> 01:15:46.159 thing because you need both houses to get to get anything through. Uh, 1027 01:15:46.239 --> 01:15:49.279 you're gonna have a lot of people who are gonna are gonna fight this, 1028 01:15:49.359 --> 01:15:51.960 and they have a lot of power, and we in the UFO community, 1029 01:15:53.000 --> 01:15:55.880 which I think is the bottom line, is we have no power, we 1030 01:15:55.960 --> 01:15:59.640 have no money, and we have no influence and we we are just basically 1031 01:15:59.680 --> 01:16:02.640 a bunch of a couple of researchers and everybody else just it's a hobby. 1032 01:16:03.079 --> 01:16:06.880 Yeah, And that's not something that the government, especially when they don't get 1033 01:16:06.920 --> 01:16:12.960 a single request or a letter on it, that they should suddenly change gears 1034 01:16:13.279 --> 01:16:17.640 and forget about the economy, forget about the situation in the Middle East or 1035 01:16:17.680 --> 01:16:20.600 whatever, and suddenly go after this issue that nobody's ever written on. This 1036 01:16:20.640 --> 01:16:25.279 is I mean, I always say you have to take a look at how 1037 01:16:25.359 --> 01:16:29.159 they think. That's what I always do is I try to see why are 1038 01:16:29.159 --> 01:16:31.319 they covering this thing up? What if I was on the other side. 1039 01:16:31.359 --> 01:16:34.680 And I've said numerous times that if I was on the other side and I 1040 01:16:34.760 --> 01:16:38.600 had the issue, I'd probably do exactly the same thing they would do. 1041 01:16:38.680 --> 01:16:41.840 I would be covering Oh yeah. Unfortunately I'm not on their side, so 1042 01:16:41.880 --> 01:16:44.079 I'm playing the other game. But if I was on their side, I 1043 01:16:44.079 --> 01:16:46.359 could see, like, oh, man, but you know, I always 1044 01:16:46.359 --> 01:16:49.920 think of putting myself in their shoes too. As far as if I was 1045 01:16:50.039 --> 01:16:58.439 Obama's PR guy, even being someone who's sympathetic to the UFO phenomena, I 1046 01:16:58.520 --> 01:17:00.359 would be like, you know what, Hey, this isn't the right time 1047 01:17:00.399 --> 01:17:04.720 to touch this. Let's if we even want to go there, this isn't 1048 01:17:04.760 --> 01:17:09.760 the time to do it. Yeah, Which is a prime example, because 1049 01:17:09.920 --> 01:17:12.800 I wrote I've written a number of articles which I haven't really published. I 1050 01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:15.640 sort of get and I get interested in researching the articles and finding stuff. 1051 01:17:15.720 --> 01:17:18.439 I was going to do an article in Podesta. Somebody asked me about what's 1052 01:17:18.279 --> 01:17:23.000 Podesta? And if you take a look at Podesta, Podesta was known as 1053 01:17:23.039 --> 01:17:26.319 the xpells guy in the Clinton White House. He's extremely interested in the subject 1054 01:17:26.520 --> 01:17:29.239 and he used to He actually phoned Area fifty one to see if there was 1055 01:17:29.279 --> 01:17:31.680 something going on Area fifty one, and he was really interested. When he 1056 01:17:31.760 --> 01:17:35.239 got out of power and Clinton got out and Bush came in, that's when 1057 01:17:35.279 --> 01:17:39.159 he made this speech and said, I think we should get to the bottom 1058 01:17:39.159 --> 01:17:42.439 of this thing. And everybody looked at it and said, well, this 1059 01:17:42.479 --> 01:17:45.840 is the messiah that you know what he Obama gets in. Podesta's going to 1060 01:17:45.880 --> 01:17:47.399 go and talk to Obama. We're going to have disclosure and it's all going 1061 01:17:47.439 --> 01:17:53.439 to open up, and people have to realize how power politics works. That 1062 01:17:53.560 --> 01:17:59.279 now Podesta is on the other side. He's now back in power and he 1063 01:17:59.439 --> 01:18:02.319 is not the press president, and he cannot come out and say, yes, 1064 01:18:02.399 --> 01:18:08.720 I think we're getting messed around. UFOs are for real, and I 1065 01:18:08.720 --> 01:18:12.239 think Obama should do something. He can't speak on behalf of the president once 1066 01:18:12.239 --> 01:18:16.199 he's in power. Is what happened when I had my local representative write letters 1067 01:18:16.199 --> 01:18:18.920 to the game government on my behalf. Once he got into power, he 1068 01:18:18.920 --> 01:18:23.600 wouldn't do anything for me. And that's the problem, is that Podesta's power 1069 01:18:23.720 --> 01:18:26.840 in power now and he can't speak on behalf of the president. He doesn't 1070 01:18:26.840 --> 01:18:30.479 want to put the president in the position where the president has to answer the 1071 01:18:30.560 --> 01:18:32.560 question because it's going to make the president look bad and he's going to get 1072 01:18:32.560 --> 01:18:36.279 the blame for Plus, he's also working for Hillary. So you've got him 1073 01:18:36.319 --> 01:18:42.399 working for the State Department one day a week and Obama going out. But 1074 01:18:42.720 --> 01:18:45.840 he potentially that Hillary's going to come back in and run and could win and 1075 01:18:45.960 --> 01:18:49.479 end up in the presidency. For eight more years. This is a type 1076 01:18:49.520 --> 01:18:54.680 of thing that if Hillary gets in, I would say my personal impression is 1077 01:18:54.880 --> 01:18:59.720 Podesta will do nothing until there's a Republican back in again. Because once you're 1078 01:18:59.720 --> 01:19:01.119 in power, you can't speak be after the president. You don't want to 1079 01:19:01.119 --> 01:19:05.239 put the president in a bad light. Everybody's you know, or your second 1080 01:19:05.279 --> 01:19:12.960 term because there's always the second term wildness. Second term president can especially towards 1081 01:19:13.039 --> 01:19:15.439 you, and do whatever the hell they want if they if they have if 1082 01:19:15.439 --> 01:19:19.520 they have thee if they don't want mine about hurting their party though, because 1083 01:19:19.560 --> 01:19:25.199 of course they don't want to hurt their party. Well, in Obama's case, 1084 01:19:25.399 --> 01:19:28.399 I disagree. I used to think that too. In Obama's case, 1085 01:19:28.960 --> 01:19:32.039 Obama is so determined to get re elected. He's running against his own party. 1086 01:19:32.039 --> 01:19:35.520 He's gonna run against the do nothing Congress, and that he's running against 1087 01:19:35.560 --> 01:19:40.560 the Democrats. He's gonna run against his own people. And there was an 1088 01:19:40.560 --> 01:19:45.960 example, there's this Keystone XL pipeline coming from Canada. Did Obama put it 1089 01:19:45.000 --> 01:19:46.880 off? He didn't say yes, he didn't say no. He just said, 1090 01:19:46.880 --> 01:19:49.239 we're gonna put it off because we got we got the answers, We're 1091 01:19:49.239 --> 01:19:53.680 gonna put off until last year the election. And one of the people I'd 1092 01:19:53.720 --> 01:19:58.039 always here, somebody said, this shows that Obama had a chance to create 1093 01:19:58.079 --> 01:20:02.039 ten thousand jobs and instead he chose to save one his own. He didn't 1094 01:20:02.039 --> 01:20:04.239 say yes, he didn't say no. He just put off the lot after 1095 01:20:04.279 --> 01:20:08.880 the election because he doesn't want to offend anybody before the election. If he 1096 01:20:08.920 --> 01:20:12.119 says yes, he's gonna offend the one group. He just says no for 1097 01:20:12.159 --> 01:20:14.760 the pipeline, he's gonna offend the other group, is gonna lose votes this 1098 01:20:14.800 --> 01:20:18.680 way, he just puts it off and he can play mister politician. He's 1099 01:20:18.720 --> 01:20:23.159 a prime politician. Yeah, he's everybody. Well more than that too, 1100 01:20:23.199 --> 01:20:27.520 because he's got a he he's upset a lot of people about being weak and 1101 01:20:27.640 --> 01:20:31.520 at least this he can put his foot down and seem strong. And I 1102 01:20:31.560 --> 01:20:35.000 agree it's that I was going to bring this up earlier to prime politics. 1103 01:20:35.119 --> 01:20:44.840 It's a great example of a politically motivated move and how everything's politically motivated, 1104 01:20:44.960 --> 01:20:48.399 especially right now. Oh exactly. Yeah. People have to realize the amount 1105 01:20:48.399 --> 01:20:51.600 of money that's in there, and if you if you put up thirty five 1106 01:20:53.560 --> 01:20:58.600 dollars to go to a campaign dinner, get your picture taken with the president, 1107 01:20:58.720 --> 01:21:00.680 you expect something to return. Nobody's going to convince me that those people 1108 01:21:00.720 --> 01:21:04.840 are doing it for nothing, right, so much money involved in the background, 1109 01:21:05.239 --> 01:21:11.159 and anybody who's in ufology, who's actually researched and tried to get research 1110 01:21:11.199 --> 01:21:15.119 funds or run websites, knows there is no money in euthology. There's nothing. 1111 01:21:15.439 --> 01:21:18.600 Yeah, And so I agree with you. I think it comes down 1112 01:21:18.600 --> 01:21:24.760 to a lot of in this build, putting the horse before or putting the 1113 01:21:24.840 --> 01:21:29.319 car before the horse. I mean, going to the politicians and going to 1114 01:21:29.399 --> 01:21:35.479 these places without having that energy or that strength or backing, and so just 1115 01:21:35.600 --> 01:21:40.000 falling flat. It's like, you know, coming to the table with nothing. 1116 01:21:40.760 --> 01:21:44.159 And that's the problem that keeps happening. And I think, you know, 1117 01:21:44.640 --> 01:21:50.279 I think people get frustrated because it's been decades and it's slow going. 1118 01:21:50.359 --> 01:21:56.840 But kind of like what you've said here, it's harder for this particular issue 1119 01:21:57.199 --> 01:22:04.760 than practically any other because than many others because you have you have, there's 1120 01:22:04.840 --> 01:22:11.680 no money behind it. There's no jobs or political nothing like that going on. 1121 01:22:12.640 --> 01:22:18.279 Plus so there's no motivation on either side. And if there is, 1122 01:22:18.319 --> 01:22:26.359 this secrecy. You have a lot of people in power who benefit from nothing 1123 01:22:26.479 --> 01:22:30.000 happening in this field. So I think what happens when I have a hope 1124 01:22:30.039 --> 01:22:32.880 and I want to hear your opinion on this is that of course, there's 1125 01:22:32.960 --> 01:22:38.239 a lot of polls that show a lot of people are interested. And even 1126 01:22:38.399 --> 01:22:45.479 though UFO are mostly entertainment, feel like you're talking about it's a very popular 1127 01:22:45.680 --> 01:22:48.920 thing to the public, so entertainment can play to it. News, as 1128 01:22:48.960 --> 01:22:55.720 you know, covers this subject a lot. You know, TV shows are 1129 01:22:55.760 --> 01:22:59.439 really popular right now on the subject. But I don't think that's a bad 1130 01:22:59.479 --> 01:23:03.079 thing because I think doing that, hitting the news, hitting the mainstream television, 1131 01:23:03.520 --> 01:23:11.680 that at least starts to garner some sort of population that feel more and 1132 01:23:11.720 --> 01:23:15.479 more comfortable to talk about it. And you have to grow and foster that 1133 01:23:15.640 --> 01:23:20.039 huge population before you can do anything. Yeah, exactly. I mean, 1134 01:23:20.119 --> 01:23:23.520 as I said, it's like building the layers of a cake. Sometimes you 1135 01:23:23.560 --> 01:23:26.560 look at something and you say, when I first saw the mass competition, 1136 01:23:26.680 --> 01:23:29.560 I thought, wow, this is kind of goofy. I mean, knowing 1137 01:23:29.600 --> 01:23:32.600 the White House, what what was going to happen? I sort of thought, 1138 01:23:32.600 --> 01:23:34.840 well, this is kind of crazy, or people were down on the 1139 01:23:34.920 --> 01:23:39.800 Disclosure project or extra politics and stuff like this. I think these things are 1140 01:23:39.880 --> 01:23:43.760 all things that we need. People are now if you talk to even somebody 1141 01:23:43.760 --> 01:23:46.960 on the street about disclosure UFO disclosure, they sort of know what it is, 1142 01:23:47.119 --> 01:23:51.119 or even exopolitics. These things are sort of we're sort of educating the 1143 01:23:51.159 --> 01:23:56.760 people where they all the foundations are being laid and it's it's there's a guy 1144 01:23:56.760 --> 01:24:00.199 who wrote a book on invention that nothing really just gets invented. It's built 1145 01:24:00.279 --> 01:24:03.760 one on top of another. Like you know, Facebook is built on the 1146 01:24:03.800 --> 01:24:09.079 Internet. The Internet was built on ARPA Neet and that was built on primitive 1147 01:24:09.079 --> 01:24:12.760 computers that you get building and people build on it. And I think all 1148 01:24:12.800 --> 01:24:15.359 these things have to come in place and when the time is right, then 1149 01:24:15.560 --> 01:24:18.760 it will happen. The thing that I think, as I said, we're 1150 01:24:18.760 --> 01:24:23.079 missing, we're missing the money and the other thing we're missing is the real 1151 01:24:23.800 --> 01:24:30.159 hard sort of the pressure politics. People who are ready to go out there 1152 01:24:30.199 --> 01:24:33.960 and really put pressure on And the prime example was in two thousand and four 1153 01:24:34.079 --> 01:24:39.880 during the presidential campaign Wesley Clark. General Wesley Clark's a four star general who 1154 01:24:39.880 --> 01:24:44.439 had a unified command is in New Hampshire. He's campaign in New Hampshire and 1155 01:24:44.479 --> 01:24:48.119 he's asked by j Buckley, the astronaut. He says, what's your vision 1156 01:24:48.119 --> 01:24:50.439 of space? And he starts about this thing about, oh, I believe 1157 01:24:50.439 --> 01:24:54.319 we can go past the speed of light up argued with cyssists and this sort 1158 01:24:54.359 --> 01:24:56.279 of stuff, and I'm going, wow, I mean this guy's yeah. 1159 01:24:56.560 --> 01:25:00.319 At the time, he's leading the Democrats. And then I got a an 1160 01:25:00.359 --> 01:25:04.039 email that said he's been briefed on crash flying saucers. So I went to 1161 01:25:04.079 --> 01:25:09.319 all the MUFON directors state directors I could find, and we knew his campaign, 1162 01:25:09.359 --> 01:25:12.279 we knew he was going, and I asked these MUFON state directors, 1163 01:25:12.760 --> 01:25:16.600 he's there, he's having these townhouses and stuff. Somebody asked him the question. 1164 01:25:16.640 --> 01:25:19.000 I asked, Cheeney, have you ever been briefed on the subject of 1165 01:25:19.159 --> 01:25:25.880 UFOSS? And I got MUFON state directors coming back to me. Three of 1166 01:25:25.880 --> 01:25:28.920 them at least said I don't want to do that. I don't want to 1167 01:25:28.920 --> 01:25:31.520 embarrass him. And I said, you don't want to embarrass him. We 1168 01:25:31.560 --> 01:25:34.279 don't want embarrass him. If we don't want to ask the question, why 1169 01:25:34.279 --> 01:25:39.560 would you expect the media or anybody else to go out and solve this for 1170 01:25:39.720 --> 01:25:42.960 us, this is our problem to solve, This is our thing that Yeah, 1171 01:25:43.079 --> 01:25:46.159 and we just don't have the guts. When Laura Johnstone went and went 1172 01:25:46.159 --> 01:25:49.520 on this forty two day hunger strike to get Bush to come and clean on 1173 01:25:49.680 --> 01:25:54.880 UFOs, she was ridiculed. If you go back to UFO updates and you 1174 01:25:54.920 --> 01:26:00.279 look at the postings, she was ridiculed. She's crazy. What is with 1175 01:26:00.279 --> 01:26:02.479 this woman? She's nuts, She's making us all look bad. She was 1176 01:26:02.479 --> 01:26:05.279 a real radical who was ready to give her life. And I asked her 1177 01:26:05.319 --> 01:26:09.479 when I went to California when it ended. I said, Laura, why 1178 01:26:09.479 --> 01:26:13.079 did you quit the UFO? Why did you quit your hunger strike after forty 1179 01:26:13.079 --> 01:26:15.720 two days? She said, I just decided the UFO community didn't care, 1180 01:26:16.000 --> 01:26:18.239 and if they don't give a damn, why should I die for them? 1181 01:26:18.319 --> 01:26:23.159 Yeah. People are so cynical in this build. I mean, even with 1182 01:26:23.239 --> 01:26:28.319 these petitions, people unfortunately don't get out and do something. They don't even 1183 01:26:28.399 --> 01:26:31.680 sign these petitions. How tough at it is it to click some links exactly, 1184 01:26:31.720 --> 01:26:36.000 even if the websitees having problems, come back to the website daily if 1185 01:26:36.039 --> 01:26:40.520 you have to just to click a couple of clicks, big deal. But 1186 01:26:42.079 --> 01:26:45.119 to protesting, if you take a look at the New York protests or off 1187 01:26:45.159 --> 01:26:47.600 here they call them change protests. These people didn't even know what they're protesting. 1188 01:26:47.600 --> 01:26:50.800 They had no but they what they were doing. They knew how to 1189 01:26:50.840 --> 01:26:55.039 get this thing. They could get the twenty five thousand people to a protest 1190 01:26:55.039 --> 01:26:57.560 and they know what they're doing. And I think we have you know, 1191 01:26:57.680 --> 01:27:00.960 we have to learn from history and we have to learn from protest movements what 1192 01:27:00.159 --> 01:27:03.439 to do. There's there's a pattern. People follow a pattern, and if 1193 01:27:03.479 --> 01:27:06.399 we want to do something, we've got to learn how to do it properly. 1194 01:27:06.840 --> 01:27:10.600 Right, well, you know what, we're pretty much out of time, 1195 01:27:10.920 --> 01:27:14.119 and I want to thank you again. This is extremely interesting. I 1196 01:27:14.119 --> 01:27:20.079 think it's very insightful. Hopefully it inspires people to to be a little more 1197 01:27:20.119 --> 01:27:25.520 savvy about this and to think a little harder, because all of this is 1198 01:27:25.560 --> 01:27:29.399 more complicated than it looks, and we have to look to, like you 1199 01:27:29.479 --> 01:27:35.000 said, these successful programs to see how that works, and that we need 1200 01:27:35.039 --> 01:27:40.720 to amass this credibility. We've got to bring something to the table. You 1201 01:27:40.760 --> 01:27:44.239 can't just you know, be a mouse. You got to be an elephant, 1202 01:27:44.319 --> 01:27:46.399 you know, to come charging through the door, and we're just there. 1203 01:27:47.159 --> 01:27:50.199 I mean, you've you've you've done as much as anybody you've well, 1204 01:27:50.199 --> 01:27:55.520 and I think this kind of stuff is working. We're we're amassing an audience. 1205 01:27:55.600 --> 01:27:59.119 And that's where I love about the Huffington Posts having us, you know, 1206 01:27:59.319 --> 01:28:02.279 right, and and luckily there are, like you said, a few 1207 01:28:02.399 --> 01:28:08.039 a handful of great researchers such as yourself, who give us a lot of 1208 01:28:08.039 --> 01:28:13.640 fodder, give a lot of credible information to get out there. So yeah, 1209 01:28:13.720 --> 01:28:15.880 you know, you're as I always say, you're one of my favorites 1210 01:28:15.880 --> 01:28:19.279 in your work is so important and great. Thank you so much for being 1211 01:28:19.359 --> 01:28:24.359 on the show again. And I want to tell everybody presidential UFO dot com. 1212 01:28:24.399 --> 01:28:26.760 And I guess I should ask you is there something coming up? Is 1213 01:28:26.800 --> 01:28:30.680 there something you want to plug? No, I'll be in Phoenix. I'm 1214 01:28:30.720 --> 01:28:33.279 seeing Phoenix. That's my big thing. I'm coming to the contracting. I'm 1215 01:28:33.319 --> 01:28:36.600 going to look at the Goldwater papers, which is something I don't know you. 1216 01:28:36.640 --> 01:28:41.039 I think your people open minds look down. Yes, when I went 1217 01:28:41.119 --> 01:28:44.319 I I've got the sort of I haven't got the inventory, but I got 1218 01:28:44.479 --> 01:28:47.039 there's over three hundred pages, yeah, UFO files in the Goldwater thing. 1219 01:28:47.039 --> 01:28:50.159 And I'm also going I'm spending a day to two days to go up to 1220 01:28:50.199 --> 01:28:56.640 Albuquerque and I'm going to look at the SHIFT papers and there's always great amount 1221 01:28:56.680 --> 01:29:00.840 of material, and that's part of my thing is that I always believe I'm 1222 01:29:00.840 --> 01:29:03.880 not gonna see disclosure. I've admitted that I really don't care whether it's disclosure 1223 01:29:04.000 --> 01:29:09.520 or not. My thing is, I figure I was honored to have been 1224 01:29:09.600 --> 01:29:12.159 involved in you a ful thing, to have a sighting, to have been 1225 01:29:12.199 --> 01:29:15.000 involved in UFU community. And my thing is to record as much of what 1226 01:29:15.039 --> 01:29:18.560 has happened now for people five hundred year from now, because five hundred years 1227 01:29:18.600 --> 01:29:21.960 they'll say, man, I wish I'd been when these guys were there. 1228 01:29:23.000 --> 01:29:26.760 This was fantastic. We're here and I'm honored to be here to be a 1229 01:29:26.760 --> 01:29:30.359 part of it, and I'm trying to document as many of these papers and 1230 01:29:30.359 --> 01:29:32.439 I put them up on my website. So I'm gonna have the Goldwater papers 1231 01:29:32.520 --> 01:29:35.560 up, and I'm gonna have all the SHIFT papers. I'm going to Albuquerque 1232 01:29:35.680 --> 01:29:40.239 to photograph all the SHIFT papers, so that that's I guess the only thing 1233 01:29:41.239 --> 01:29:45.840 I've got and I'll be at the UFO Congress and we'll get together. And 1234 01:29:45.159 --> 01:29:49.159 I appreciate all you've done for me. You've you've promoted my stuff, and 1235 01:29:49.760 --> 01:29:54.520 you're one of the good guys. So thanks did oh buddy. All right, 1236 01:29:54.640 --> 01:30:00.920 we'll see in a few weeks, you bet, the Great grand Cameron. 1237 01:30:00.159 --> 01:30:02.920 If you notice he said ao lot, it's because he's out there in 1238 01:30:02.960 --> 01:30:06.840 Canada, and that's why our connection wasn't one hundred percent. He's up there 1239 01:30:06.840 --> 01:30:13.439 in the cool Canadian tundra and we're out here in the warm Arizona desert. 1240 01:30:14.119 --> 01:30:17.439 But thank you guys so much for listening. Don't forget to join us next 1241 01:30:17.439 --> 01:30:23.960 week, and also visit PRESIDENTIALUFO dot com for more on Grant. Visit Openminds 1242 01:30:24.000 --> 01:30:30.680 dot tv and Ufodailynews dot com for your latest and greatest UFO news. Talk 1243 01:30:30.680 --> 01:30:31.640 to you next week, people,