WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.160 --> 00:00:08.400 With Lron's segal and from London and Gerard read from Berlin. This is Redefining 2 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:17.920 Energy minutes today on redefending Energy. It's a solo from Job at Ecosummit twenty 3 00:00:18.039 --> 00:00:23.399 four last months in Berlin. Job, what was the topic energy storage and 4 00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:28.679 hydrogen. Fantastic, let's listen to your show. Yeah, and asked me 5 00:00:28.719 --> 00:00:31.920 to come and talk about storage and hydrogen. And I thought to myself, 6 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:34.560 Okay, well, I have to frame this somehow. And I just thought, 7 00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:37.520 okay, well, let's start with this energy transition we're going through, 8 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:42.719 right, and I'd start with what the path forward is. Ultimately we decarbonize. 9 00:00:42.759 --> 00:00:45.799 What we have to do is do two things. We have to electrify 10 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:49.719 as much as possible the system. That's the key point. Electrify as much 11 00:00:49.719 --> 00:00:54.039 as we can of the energy system. The second thing is reduce fossil fuel 12 00:00:54.039 --> 00:00:56.920 consumption. Now, remember what I just said, Didn't I said reduce? 13 00:00:56.960 --> 00:00:59.679 I said not get rid of. I don't believe we'll ever get rid of 14 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:03.039 it, Okay, because they're too valuable. But we have to do these 15 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:06.799 two things. That's what we have to do going forward. Now. The 16 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:12.920 good news is we've got incredible low cost technologies for generating electricity and managing power 17 00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:15.959 flows. And this is very, very very important because if you look at 18 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:19.799 the innovation here and compare to innovations in other parts of the energy sector, 19 00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:25.719 the cost reductions are just incredible. So just very simple cost reductions and power 20 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:30.560 electronics in the last year about fifty percent. Solar costs are down thirty percent 21 00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:34.319 since the beginning of the year sol batteries and again innovations continuing in and around 22 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:38.519 this space. The issue, though, of course, is we don't have 23 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:42.799 this word in English, and we do now called dunkle flouter. What happens 24 00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:46.000 when you've got no wind and one and no solar? What do you do? 25 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:49.840 But really simple, guys, you store the energy. And I really 26 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:52.400 just want to make a point. We've been doing this for hundreds of years, 27 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:55.760 so why we make a big deal about it. We store the energy. 28 00:01:55.799 --> 00:01:57.760 And there's a few ways. Look, we can use the existing fossil 29 00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:00.439 fuel systems that are there, you know, other words, you can burn 30 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:04.480 coal on that January day, you can burn gas. I mean that's one 31 00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:09.039 possibility. The second possibility is you go and use these incredible array of new 32 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:14.199 technologies that are being developed across the world, and as has said that, 33 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:16.240 I can't even keep up with the amount of technologies that are in this space, 34 00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:19.479 and I've been looking at it for years. But the point is we 35 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:23.319 could do that. That's very clear. So we have a solution. It's 36 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:29.280 called storage. So let me just talk about one storage technology that stands out. 37 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:35.319 It's called lithium ion batteries. Lithium ion batteries have enabled the digital world 38 00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:38.159 that we live in. And also in terms of the scale that this technology 39 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:43.159 has come to market, we've never seen an energy technology do what lithium mine 40 00:02:43.159 --> 00:02:46.360 has done. But we take it for complete. Granted, be really clear, 41 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:51.599 we would not have electric cars without these type of batteries. If we 42 00:02:51.639 --> 00:02:53.800 went back fifteen years ago and somebody said we're going to have electric cars, 43 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:55.560 they say, no, no, it's all going to be fuel cells, 44 00:02:55.599 --> 00:03:00.919 it's going to be hydrogen because they didn't see the movements in energy density and 45 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:04.879 the improvements and costs that we've seen in batteries. And the result is this 46 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:07.560 is that I give you the statistic in China and Q one, thirty five 47 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:12.360 percent of all cards are electric. But it's not just cars that are electrifying. 48 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:15.360 I think The most interesting one is two wheelers, scooters, motorbikes, 49 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:21.680 et cetera. Forty four percent go to China ninety percent. The only ones 50 00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:25.280 that are still buying internal combustion ejured motorbikes and scooters are the Europeans and the 51 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:29.520 Americans. But again you can see what we're doing here. We're going to 52 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:32.800 buses, we're going to trucks, et cetera, etcetera. The other thing 53 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:37.520 very interesting this is California. This, by the way, happens on a 54 00:03:37.560 --> 00:03:39.400 weekly basis, but this was the first time it ever happened on April the 55 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:44.439 sixteenth. What you see is the yellow there is the sun. So what 56 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:47.039 happens when the sun goes in? What happens when the sun's not there? 57 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:51.400 Well, it's interesting is if you see this little blue and there's a blue 58 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:55.120 here, what you see is it's batteries. So batteries taking that excess solar 59 00:03:55.280 --> 00:04:00.199 and storing it for the period that you don't need it. And so what 60 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:03.840 you're seeing on a regular basis is that there are three hour periods where batteries 61 00:04:03.879 --> 00:04:09.360 are the biggest source of generation in California today. So that's the big picture 62 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:13.960 of batteries. If we look at the tailwinds, it's just incredible cost reduction 63 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:17.680 and improvements and energy density. And they are continuing, really, they are 64 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:21.800 continuing. They're continuing because we've got the best minds in the world, Japan, 65 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:27.439 China leading this, US following and trying to catch up. And guess 66 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:30.800 what, we're all doing the same thing. The second thing I want to 67 00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:34.920 say is transport. Transport's a game changer because what it does is it gives 68 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:39.959 you massive scale. Instead of doing a tiny little battery, suddenly you know, 69 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:43.439 you're putting a ninety five kill what our battery into a car, and 70 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:46.600 you're scaling this up and you do a huge amount of things with it. 71 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:49.279 What's fascinating about this, though, and all of it, is that, 72 00:04:49.480 --> 00:04:53.079 just to give you an idea, is that we're at a point now where 73 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:58.839 we are price parity at the upper end of the car market in Europe between 74 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:02.199 an internal combustion engine and an electric vehicle. If I go to China, 75 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:05.639 it's already at the mid level. Okay, So it's very very very interesting 76 00:05:05.639 --> 00:05:10.079 what's going on there. And again that just drives more and more scale and 77 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:14.879 again prices down. Next thing is we need the batteries in the system. 78 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:17.839 So I don't know if you know yesterday what happened. Germany power prices yesterday 79 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:21.639 hit ten thousand euros of mega what hour. And the reason was was because 80 00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:26.759 there was bad weather across Germany and they couldn't predict what level of sun that 81 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:28.920 was going to be, what level of wind that was going to be. 82 00:05:29.399 --> 00:05:31.879 And you had two periods nine o'clock in the morning and then later on the 83 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:34.759 evening where prices were at that. Well, guess what, if you've enough 84 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:38.600 batteries in the system, you can see what you can do. You don't 85 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:42.079 have that volatility and use a battery only you make a lot of money out 86 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:45.680 of it. What's also clear is we're going to continue adding more intimate and 87 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:48.319 renewables. You do that, what you do is you still have more periods 88 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:53.920 of excess power. Again lends itself to batteries. The situation is the Dutch 89 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:57.600 grid right now, the Dutch grid. If you decide now you want to 90 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:00.279 build a new house, good look to you. You will not get grid 91 00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:02.759 connection in the most of the country for eighteen months. And you might say, 92 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:05.079 okay, that's just the Netherlands. No it's not. I live in 93 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:10.600 Brandenburg outside Berlin. Here Iranienburg city north to Berlin, exact same thing. 94 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:15.240 There's a construction stop because of congestion in the grid. Guess what batteries help 95 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:17.879 reduce that. Other thing, I'd say is just the level of R and 96 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:23.040 D that's going into this area. It is mind boggling, really, the 97 00:06:23.079 --> 00:06:27.600 amount of money that's going in. And the reason is is because everyone realizes 98 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:30.680 from a strategic point of view that this is critical. And I tell you, 99 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:34.360 if you asked me ten years ago and said would we ever electrify airplanes 100 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:39.680 and ships, I would say no way, I'm not sure anymore, Okay, 101 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:43.399 And the reason I'm not sure is because again it's the innovation that's out 102 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:46.720 there in this space. So anyway, that's what we're seeing there. Let 103 00:06:46.759 --> 00:06:49.319 me talk a little bit about the economics of it. The economics of it. 104 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:53.519 What we're going to see is batteries used in our power system behind the 105 00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:57.199 meter. That means in our buildings in front of the meter, which means 106 00:06:57.319 --> 00:07:00.959 ultimately as part of the power system and located with generation. We're going to 107 00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:05.720 see this. And what we're also going to see is batteries being used in 108 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:10.600 different locations so Germany has a whole pile of batteries that are sitting behind the 109 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:13.959 meter. They're not really used in the power system. I've got batteries in 110 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:15.920 cars, they're not really used in the power system. You can see where 111 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:19.079 I'm coming. This is all going to intermix for me. I think it's 112 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:24.000 a really exciting world because we don't know what the services are, we don't 113 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:26.920 know what the offerings are, etc. Etc. What we know is this 114 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:30.519 technology really does make a game change. I want to give you an idea 115 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:33.360 of just how profitable these things are. If you put in a battery in 116 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:38.360 the UK in twenty twenty one one hour battery, you've had a thirty five 117 00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:41.120 percent ir or some of the words, you had to payback period of two 118 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:44.439 years in it. Now. Obviously, the more batteries to go on system, 119 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:46.399 the less the volatility goes down. And you can see if you're putting 120 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:49.360 in a system today, you're probably getting fifteen percent irois, but you're still 121 00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:55.040 getting good returns on this. What's interesting though, is if you really want 122 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:58.720 to put batteries in a system, what you need to have is prices going 123 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:03.680 differences between charging and discharging, with about fifty to sixty euros. There's three 124 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:07.360 markets that are really interesting Germany, Spain and Portugal. And you're gonna see 125 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:09.079 batteries put in. This is when you see ten thousand euros of megawat hour 126 00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:13.839 for battery no offense. If that happens three times in a week, I 127 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:16.959 have a payback period of a year on the battery, okay, and we 128 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:20.079 will see this volatility going forward. The other thing is behind the meter. 129 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:24.360 We recently did some numbers in and around payback periods for putting in solar and 130 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:28.839 storage. What you're looking at is in particular countries which have high power prices 131 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:33.759 Denmark, Germany, Italy, Ireland, UK and what you suddenly see is 132 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:37.559 that payback periods for putting in the two of them, they're in around six 133 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:41.799 years. This is without a subsidy. And by the way, it's only 134 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:45.200 gonna get better because, as I said to you, storage prices down thirty 135 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:48.240 percent since the beginning of the year. Let's assume they get down twenty percent 136 00:08:48.279 --> 00:08:52.039 again, you can see what happens to the numbers storage solar the exact same 137 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:54.639 thing. And also, by the way, again I just say innovation really 138 00:08:54.759 --> 00:08:58.399 was going to lead to trains, planes, and ships being electrified. So 139 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:03.000 that brings me to hydrogen. Let me just start by saying that hydrogen is 140 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:07.360 incredibly important as part of our energy system. And if you think global emissions 141 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:11.799 in relation to hydrogen production, hydrogen, for example, is used for fertilizers 142 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:16.639 globally. It's also used in the oil industry, and the gas industry and 143 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:20.279 the chemical industry. It produces more emissions in Germany. Okay, so it 144 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:26.440 really is a focus to decarbonize as quick as we can this system. What 145 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:30.000 I would say is the opportunity is ginormous if you just look at it. 146 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:33.600 McKinsey here came up and look at what they thought the opportunity is going forward, 147 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:37.679 and you can see these a huge, big facilities that at some point 148 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:41.840 in time are going to be decarbonized. You just take the count across the 149 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:46.639 world three hundred and thirty two large scale industrial production units that need to decarbonize. 150 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:50.759 What I will say though, is hydrogen is not the silver bullet. 151 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:52.879 I want to go back. If i'd sat here and I had an autoown 152 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:56.960 executive beside me ten years ago from BMW, he would tell you the future's 153 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:01.759 fuel cell and hydrogen. Okay, it's not. They betted on it and 154 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:05.919 they got wrong and they're in trouble. Okay. Now why I say that 155 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:11.879 is that what we have is must must decarbonize our fertilizers, hydrocaffering, desulfurization, 156 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:16.759 steel. Then there's maybees. What's interesting is there used to be loads 157 00:10:16.759 --> 00:10:20.480 of maybees, but the maybies have now gone into unlikely. So if I 158 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:26.639 just want to say unlikely urban delivery, metro trains and buses, lorries, 159 00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:30.840 even short haul aviation, they've now gone into unlikely. And I want to 160 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:35.159 say this is very important because it's the innovation that's taking place in storage. 161 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:37.279 As an analyst that has been looking at the sector for now on, I 162 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:41.759 haven't seen innovation in hydrogen and field cells in a decade. It is changing. 163 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:46.240 But if they've lost a decade against batteries, okay, So that's why 164 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:50.120 I say. What I will say though, is that the opportunity is ginormous. 165 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:54.399 They really are ginormous, and they are huge projects. You know these 166 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:58.840 projects. One project we're looking at it's a billion euro project. See, 167 00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:01.559 these are not small to actually do. These these are big industrial plants. 168 00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:05.879 But I will say is that there's lots of supply hydrogen out there, green 169 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:09.240 suprie hydrogen, but the demand's not there. So there's a lot of blah 170 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:13.360 blah blah in the market that we're gonna buy it and they're going to buy 171 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:16.440 it. But actually what the issue is that a lot of the production costs 172 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:20.960 and I'm looking for example in euro here you're looking at eight euros for a 173 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:24.279 kilogram of hydrogen. Well if you do it with natural grass, you're at 174 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:28.080 two euros. Buy some offsets and there you're at three. That's the issue 175 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:31.039 that we still have in it. But again it's early days, but the 176 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:33.399 price is not right at present, but it will change. What I also 177 00:11:33.399 --> 00:11:37.200 say about hydrogen is we don't know what color it's going to be. Now, 178 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:41.360 this is the industry talks about colors. Gray is you're using fossil fuels. 179 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:45.000 Green is obviously what you're doing is you're losing electrolyzes and using renewables to 180 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:48.679 do it. Issue there is that we've got intermittent renewables not that easy. 181 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:52.639 So then the idea of blue hydrogen is what we do is carbons questration, 182 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:56.919 in other words, we store the carbon turquoise is where we use this pyrolysis 183 00:11:56.919 --> 00:12:01.559 technology, a completely different technology that use. This has been pushed by sort 184 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:03.559 of BASF and some of the big chemical companies. And then we got pink 185 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:07.039 at the end, which is we use nuclear all right. And each of 186 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:11.159 these are different, and as I said, there's proponents of each, and 187 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:13.360 there's also people who are very critical of this, like a lot of the 188 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:16.960 green guys don't like the pink guys. Nobody seems to like the blue guys. 189 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:22.279 I call it the hydrogen wars we really have at present. What is 190 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:24.720 clear though, is that a lot of talk from hyrogen people that oh, 191 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:28.759 we're going to use all the electricity is going to be for free. Yeah, 192 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.000 right, it's going to be free for a few hours a day. 193 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:33.879 The battery is going to take that, okay, And the battery's got much 194 00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:37.960 more efficiency. That means the battery actually from a cost point of view, 195 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:41.799 they can even pay more, always pay more because of this. But what 196 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:45.240 is interesting in it is it is a huge investment opportunity. So I very 197 00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:50.320 quickly talk about investment opportunity batteries all about Asia, Okay, very difficult. 198 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:54.080 I'm waiting for north Wall to actually come out with batteries into a car. 199 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:58.480 For the last five years still haven't got anything, so tough. Second thing 200 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:01.919 is be really clear leaves in the innovation. This is number of clean energy 201 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:05.039 patents, this is in fuel cells, it's in hydrogen, the batteries, 202 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:09.799 the solar wind. They're way ahead of us in terms of innovation. Second 203 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:13.840 thing, they're dominating actually all key raw materials, so you have to be 204 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:16.600 very, very very careful in and around that. Second thing I would say, 205 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:20.600 though, is well commodities is also interesting. We're gonna need lithium, 206 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:22.320 we're gonna need copper, we're gonna need all this type of stuff. These 207 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:26.720 companies are publicly listed and they need capital. We can't do this transition without 208 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:31.759 capital going into that mining area, and there's lots of innovation in that area. 209 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:33.679 The other thing I would say is in terms of chemistry, it's tough 210 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:37.840 to pick the winner. It really is tough to pick the winner. There's 211 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:41.120 so much innovation and so much competition going on. Each have different advantages and 212 00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:46.960 disadvantages. Difficult but exciting they get it right, the opportunity is enormous. 213 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:50.799 I'll use one example I think quite interesting is sodium mine. Sodium mine is 214 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:54.559 a cheaper alternative to lithium mine and I think you're probably gonna see this used 215 00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:58.559 in stationary storage come into the market this year. Finally, I would say 216 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:01.679 about how hydrogen is. What you're going to see in hydrogen is, whether 217 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:05.120 I criticize it or not, what you're going to see is a massive roll 218 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:09.000 out of hydrogen in the next few years. And so the opportunity is ginormous. 219 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:11.960 There's a whole pile of government money going at it. And I know 220 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:16.279 this from the solar boom in the past. You chase subsidies, That's what 221 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:18.480 you do in this energy space, so chase it. So that definitely is 222 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:22.279 a huge opportunity. And it's been led by the oil and gas companies who 223 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:26.159 are looking at this and sort of seeing it as a way to decarbonize. 224 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:28.320 Plus it's their skill set. And actually, I want to say is the 225 00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:31.960 end of it. What really gets me exciting is this is these are all 226 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:37.840 the startups in and around the energy storage area. You cannot just put batteries 227 00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:39.279 in. You have to manage the batteries. You have to make sure that 228 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:43.759 the batteries and the homes are managed properly, etc. Etc. And then 229 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:46.240 you've got a whole pile of interesting business models. Now I'm just going to 230 00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:50.320 tie this and then I'm going to stop at this point. This is a 231 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:54.000 business we recently find that's called Wonderwall. They go into a new building home 232 00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:58.480 with a full decarbonization solution, so they're basically putting everything in behind the meter 233 00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:01.440 and you're putting it in flat so you give the customer a flat rate for 234 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:05.759 their energy going forward. That's where we're going with this, guys. That's 235 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:07.480 where we're going, and I think that's what really excites me most of all, 236 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:13.279 is combining these technologies into solutions that actually decarbonize our world quicker than we're 237 00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:18.039 doing it up to them. Finally, growth opportunity is enormous, which is 238 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:22.039 all the reason why we're here. There's money to be made, but it's 239 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:24.960 a difficult part going forward. At the same time, I'll stop at that 240 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:33.320 point in time. There you go. Thank you for listening to Redefining Energy. 241 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:39.720 Don't forget to rate the show and subscribe on Apple, Podcast, Spotify, 242 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:41.919 or the platform of your choice.