WEBVTT 1 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:20.079 You heard the story. Now you're those who were involved in making a come 2 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:33.039 to life. Join us as we build behind the Door. Good evening, 3 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:36.880 roomies, and welcome back to another episode of Behind the Door with the Gray 4 00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:40.920 Rooms podcast. I am your host, Brooks Bigley, and with me tonight 5 00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:46.960 is Stephen Prouse, the author of season four, episode eighteen, entitled Entitlement. 6 00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:50.479 How are you this evening, Stephen? I'm great. How are you? 7 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:53.479 I just realized doing that intro, how much of a tongue twist, 8 00:00:53.560 --> 00:00:58.200 that is to say, the entitled entitlement. I didn't even think about that. 9 00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:02.880 I'm doing well. I'm glad. I'm glad you're you're here to answer 10 00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:06.840 all of our space questions because this is going to be a very scientifically themed 11 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:10.319 episode, right, Oh lord, I hope not. Yeah, I'm just 12 00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:14.760 I'm just kidding. As most writers, I'm just pretending. So you know 13 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:19.159 it works. Just google a couple of things here and there right while you're 14 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:23.439 writing it. Absolutely, Hey, where are you located at right outside Columbia, 15 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:29.120 South Carolina? So yeah, on the edge of the Bible Belt, 16 00:01:29.319 --> 00:01:32.280 I suppose. Oh okay, interesting, Yeah, you got a tiny little 17 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:34.519 accent there that I detect. I don't know. I'm sure I sound like 18 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:38.879 I'm the one with the accent being out here in California. Well, no, 19 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:44.000 I m. For my semester I lived out in LA. My roommates 20 00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:48.319 would feed me all sorts of alcohol to make the accent really come out. 21 00:01:48.439 --> 00:01:53.239 So there you get. I find that like certain adults, not that you're 22 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:57.400 trying to hide accents, but you definitely will admit that it comes out more 23 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:04.280 often when alcohol is present. We don't discuss our accent much in polite company, 24 00:02:04.359 --> 00:02:08.960 but it comes out thick when we're not so polite. How's the weather 25 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:14.400 where you're at? Uh? Really nice right now? Actually I thought it 26 00:02:14.479 --> 00:02:17.919 was. We were expecting a few more storms, but uh yeah, really 27 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:23.199 nice, really hot. It was about one hundred earlier this week, so 28 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:25.919 oh I'm here. I thought I was, you know, chilling in the 29 00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:30.319 sun in California and being the only one. It's like ninety five at its 30 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:36.520 peak today, but you are already experiencing trouble digits in the heat index. 31 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:39.199 Yeah, and the humidity. I mean we have a thick, wet, 32 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:44.280 wet blanket on top of us for humidity. Oh that's right, yeah, 33 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:46.719 yeah, we have really dry heat out here. You've you've got a completely 34 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:51.520 different setup out there. Man, Well, how how hot do you think 35 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:55.319 it is hanging out outside of a hyperion? I would assume quite chilly. 36 00:02:55.599 --> 00:03:00.280 Um, but you know who knows our commander. We'll have to let us 37 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:04.680 in on that secret if he ever comes back there. You go, Well, 38 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:08.240 speaking of, let's let's get into it here. So I'm super excited 39 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:13.240 that we got another space story. It's been kind of a while since we've 40 00:03:13.240 --> 00:03:16.719 had a bit of like a true kind of sci fi futuristic story like this, 41 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:22.199 you know that takes place not on Earth, and and you had so 42 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:29.199 many cool themes kind of interspersed within this story, just about aliens meeting humans, 43 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:34.039 and like, to me, I thought the ultimate message here was kind 44 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:37.879 of, you know, regardless of what this alien thought about humans, was 45 00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:42.479 really trying to get into the brain of our of our narrator and what he 46 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:46.199 thought about humans. Ultimately, the story didn't exist one day and then you 47 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:49.840 came along and wrote it, Like, how did that all happen for you? 48 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:53.000 Well, Um, as far as the writing goes, and before we 49 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:58.159 fully jump in, I have to disclose my own little bit ahead. Kennon 50 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:03.599 the Voice, the voice itself was never actually there. It literally was in 51 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:08.800 the head of our commander the entire time, so there was no monster. 52 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:12.919 But um, you're letting it out early. Yeah, I got to throw 53 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:16.000 that one out there because it may color the conversation a little bit later. 54 00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:23.040 Um. But as far as how I got to this one, I was 55 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:31.319 in the middle of writing another space story. Um, Primarily I'm a huge 56 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:35.439 fan of Star Trek, but I like the early stuff where maybe they haven't 57 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:41.279 quite gotten out in out of the atmosphere or excuse me, out of the 58 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:46.279 Solar System, and um, you know, the early ZEP from conquering days, 59 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:51.399 And I like that concept of space as the great future of human society. 60 00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:56.959 This this goal, and I decided I want to write a bit of 61 00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:00.639 a horror story in those early days where we're still trying to find our way 62 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:06.839 into the into the interstellar space. Hmm. Yeah, the Final Frontiers the 63 00:05:08.079 --> 00:05:11.199 Captain mccaroud always say in the beginning, or did kerk also say that? 64 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:16.279 I believe. Yeah. The Strange New Worlds and all was originated with the 65 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:23.199 Kirk voiceover. But I'm not the biggest Star Trek nerd, so some some 66 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:26.600 folks will call me on this. I love this a little bit, just 67 00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:30.759 yeah, enough to be dangerous, never enough to be great. So so 68 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:33.120 how then did you start to hammer this together? You see kind of picture 69 00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:35.879 setting, you know, and you thought, okay, this is this is 70 00:05:35.959 --> 00:05:40.720 kind of where I want my characters to interact. But then what ultimately got 71 00:05:40.759 --> 00:05:45.920 you into this plot of you know, this human kind of like seeing his 72 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:49.439 own truth basically, Well, I uh, you know, you're right what 73 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:55.199 you know. And I'm a political fiend, I suppose social justice sort of 74 00:05:55.240 --> 00:06:02.839 fiend, and and I wanted to look at this spaceship as a microcosm of 75 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:15.120 society, diverse crew and this guy that just couldn't get along with everyone else. 76 00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:19.160 And I just really wanted to explore that mindset. I mean again, 77 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:25.639 coming from this part of the country, I'm shrouded in in this ideology, 78 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:30.279 and I wanted to explore that as a subtlety and watch what happens with this 79 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:33.319 character in society. Yeah, it's it's fun that well, I don't know 80 00:06:33.319 --> 00:06:40.720 if funds the right word. It's it's great that authors can use storytelling and 81 00:06:40.759 --> 00:06:44.519 writing, you know, to explore these concepts. And we've talked many times 82 00:06:44.519 --> 00:06:47.560 in past behind the doors about the importance of horror, that it's this lens 83 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:53.680 that you can use to kind of focus on important issues going on in society, 84 00:06:53.959 --> 00:06:56.879 you know, and lets you kind of unravel it in a more of 85 00:06:56.879 --> 00:07:01.560 a safe area where you can kind of explore different three themes and whatnot and 86 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:04.959 see. So you're right that you even though you kind of blew it early 87 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:09.560 by letting us letting us know that this is a wall ahead. None, 88 00:07:09.639 --> 00:07:13.040 No, it's nothing wrong. I was gonna get to that and be like, 89 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:15.959 okay, so as the author told me. But yeah, I always 90 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:18.800 do enjoy the ambiguity of like was it in his head or it was it 91 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:21.480 really an alien? You know, and you're just saying right away it was 92 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:26.519 in his head. But still something affected that right, Like we can kind 93 00:07:26.519 --> 00:07:30.079 of tell he's a bit of a miserly old I don't know how old he 94 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:31.639 is, but he's he's just a bit of a he's got a chip on 95 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:34.439 his shoulder, it seems like, just based on the certain ways that he 96 00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:40.360 responds to things and and kind of narrates about what he's seeing on the ship, 97 00:07:40.759 --> 00:07:45.319 something about them, you know, doing that that that hyperdrive jump to 98 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:50.399 leave Saturn's moon to go towards uranus, like something activated in his brain, 99 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:56.040 a switch, I guess right, Like it was that the impetus kind of 100 00:07:56.079 --> 00:07:59.360 what you wanted to get everything going. Was that what was supposed to start 101 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:03.120 at all for him? Or was he already doomed to have these these hallucinations? 102 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:09.519 Basically now it really and again, all my stories are a mix of 103 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:13.079 everything that I'm reading, watching whatnot. And at the time I was reading 104 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:22.959 Understanding Power by Noam Chomsky, and he starts talking about how we as a 105 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:31.439 society tend to gravitate toward authoritarian strongman sort of figures when we're when when we're 106 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:37.639 unsettled, when we're afraid, turmoil, uncertainty, that sort of thing. 107 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:43.559 And so this little thing that happens to the ship that ultimately doesn't do anything 108 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:48.039 to the ship or really anyone on it has him so frightened that he slips 109 00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:54.320 into this I've got to take control an idea, right, like, take 110 00:08:54.360 --> 00:09:00.000 control of the ship, take control of the people on the ship. Yeah, 111 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:05.440 really act out on his sense of entitlement to command, to be in 112 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:11.960 charge, and he needed to deal with his own inner demon, let's say, 113 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:16.799 and step up and take command rightfully, in his mind of the balance 114 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:22.000 of his crew, right and ironically in the end, you know, he 115 00:09:22.039 --> 00:09:26.080 refers to the rest of the crew as being the entitled ones, and he's 116 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:30.960 just kind of like the normal, the savior that would have, you know, 117 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:33.200 made everything better. You know, at least that's what he's telling himself, 118 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:37.559 or that voice, the alien that he was projecting out. I guess, 119 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:41.200 man, this does change the way the story goes by you telling telling 120 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:46.159 us right away. I had to throw it out there because you know, 121 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:50.279 we would pursue this the intent of the being, and I'd be sitting on 122 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:54.639 it and I'm not good with secrets at all. So let it all hang 123 00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:58.039 out. Absolutely. Yah. Yeah. Yeah. My kids get their their 124 00:09:58.039 --> 00:10:01.600 presence early always because I can't just hold on to it. So you're one 125 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:05.159 of those parents. Goddamn one of those guys. Yep, Christmas starts on 126 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:09.360 the twenty third, twenty fourth, Who cares? Oh yeah, we do, 127 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:11.360 uh, we do. The Icelandic book flood. I have to give 128 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:16.200 away books for Christmas Eve. So that's uh, that's that's that sounds like 129 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:20.000 something funny. What you what is that? The Icelandic what the book flood? 130 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:24.679 Um, it's and I'm going to butcher the pronunciation but Yola book of 131 00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:31.360 flood. It's the so Iceland. Per capita is the largest publisher of books 132 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:39.320 in the world, and on Christmas Eve is their biggest book exchange. They 133 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:43.559 give books, they drink hot chocolate and eat cookies and stay up all night 134 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:46.639 reading. So it's a wonderful thing. That's amazing. Now, when you 135 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:52.039 say the biggest of a publisher, like in terms of the concentration of authors 136 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:54.960 putting stuff out, or just in terms of how many books are being released, 137 00:10:56.559 --> 00:11:00.679 it's the number of books and again per capita, So there their population 138 00:11:00.759 --> 00:11:05.240 being smaller than ours. Obviously their numbers of books aren't that huge, but 139 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:11.000 they are globally like and especially in the fall and winter months, they start 140 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:16.000 putting out tons of books because they they do this book flood every Christmas Eve, 141 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:22.360 and they cuddle up by the fire and hopefully read horror stories. It's 142 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:26.679 every horror author's dream come true. Yeah. Well, and does that mean 143 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:30.639 that out there? I mean, forgive me, I don't for not annoying 144 00:11:30.679 --> 00:11:35.240 the geography that well, but is it higher up in the northern hemisphere or 145 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:37.440 you know where like the days are like you know, seven hours long, 146 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:41.480 and it's mostly night or vice versa during the other times of the year. 147 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:48.120 I'm thinking of the sphere, but yeah, it's it's definitely north of the 148 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:54.200 US. I'm not sure how in relation it is to Canada, but yeah, 149 00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:56.879 these are the very very long nights during the winter. Yeah, that 150 00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:03.000 makes sense, right, right, So they're society has kind of grown around 151 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:05.279 this idea of these very long I mean, they're probably even call him nights. 152 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:09.440 He just call him long dark periods because if it's like nine in the 153 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:11.000 morning but it's still dark out, you don't call that nighttime, it's still 154 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:15.759 morningtime. They gotta they gotta follow the clock. Yeah, good morning, 155 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:20.360 it's a dark day out. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's awesome though. 156 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:22.039 That well, anyway, we're getting we're getting off topic, but not 157 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:24.159 really, because hey, books, I love books. We write, that's 158 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:28.200 what we do here. Books are awesome. Maybe our narrators should have read 159 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:33.120 more books while he was on the spaceship. Anyway, anyways, helped the 160 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:37.039 outlet. So as you were plotting along, Okay, got the setting, 161 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:43.879 got this disgrunt told character designed, Like what then were you trying to portray? 162 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:46.679 You know, with your themes were you wanting him to. I mean, 163 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:52.039 you clearly didn't want him to become aware of his own falsehoods, you 164 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:54.279 know, because he didn't. I mean even the end he dies, he's 165 00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:56.039 like, I don't want to talk about my ship anymore, and he basically 166 00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:01.679 just fades off into nothing. That's yeah, that that mindset, that um 167 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:09.080 resistance to change. I mean, I wanted to tell a story that focused 168 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:18.200 on a microcosm of human society stepping out into this future where they would have 169 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:22.480 been successful cooperating, uh, living you know, in unison and that sort 170 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:28.519 of thing, and his refusal to do that ultimately gets him ejected from society. 171 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:35.480 These are ideas that that cannot be tolerated. They're a danger and and 172 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:39.360 that's that's really the the crux of what I wanted to go for with it. 173 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:45.759 But I wanted his bigotry, his sexism, his racism, his you 174 00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:50.320 know, um and and there are other parts of the characters and we shaved 175 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:56.480 off because obviously I use some more rough language with him early on. But 176 00:13:56.759 --> 00:14:01.759 his homophobia and his transphobia, you know, all these things that he really 177 00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:09.240 clung to because he couldn't accept others is ultimately what made him dangerous and ejected. 178 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.919 Yeah, I totally see. Now you know how this is, you 179 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:18.039 know, representative of kind of a microcosm, you know, of of planet 180 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:24.399 Earth basically, you know. And it's nice that you didn't have I guess, 181 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:26.519 or maybe there was enough time because there's a shorter story, but you 182 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:31.440 didn't have like the crew attacking him, you know, for being you know 183 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:37.559 what he was at least, um, you just had him reacting I guess 184 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:39.840 in it all along, they were hallucinations like you know, seeing the dog, 185 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:45.759 hearing the dog, the child, where those just you know, the 186 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:50.240 things that sprouted from his brain because he was he just addled with whatever the 187 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:56.200 fuck went wrong in him. That was spurred on by I guess maybe the 188 00:14:56.240 --> 00:14:58.960 stress or the anxiety of you know, having left you know, the Hyperia 189 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:03.519 or wasn't then Yeah, the moon is called Hiberian. Yes, I just 190 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:09.879 feel like what started everything was somehow that strange shake up as they went into 191 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:13.960 their like hyperdrive thing and then came out of it. And then that does 192 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.240 seem to be where he's like, listen, like nobody was doing what we 193 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:18.519 should be doing here. We need to like we need to be doing this 194 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:22.000 instead. Yeah, that's when he starts to take on that guys of like, 195 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:24.440 I should be the one in charge here, I should be the one 196 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:31.360 calling the shots. Yeah. Yeah. And the crew did what the crew 197 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:35.720 would do. They did scientific tests, they did biological tests, they searched 198 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:41.440 everyone, they searched the ship. They found nothing wrong. When he still 199 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:46.840 had issues, the captain researched the ship and retested everyone in the crew, 200 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:54.720 immediately believing him and trying to find a cause, but ultimately not finding that. 201 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:58.840 So the crew essentially, for me, was reaching out and trying to 202 00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:04.240 make it get better for him, but he was ultimately rejecting everything. Yeah. 203 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:07.480 Yeah, he's digging, you know, further down into his own his 204 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:11.600 own feelings, which I feel like happens a lot with people. You know, 205 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:17.679 when when someone is really just so sure that what they think is the 206 00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:21.799 right way and everyone else is crazy and and not listening, you know, 207 00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:25.399 they they just will dig deeper as people try to help. Yeah, it 208 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:30.840 became a conspiracy against him. It became this everyone's out to get him, 209 00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:37.360 and the science is all obviously wrong. There's something else here right right right? 210 00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:40.799 Excellent? Excellent, I mean it was, it was a fantastic story. 211 00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:45.240 Um, you know, aside from thinking of the ambiguity of like was 212 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:47.720 this an alien or not? You know, at least I even thought that 213 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:52.120 too. I wasn't like absolutely assure you know that that there was a being 214 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:56.240 interacting with him, but I was kind of for for a moment thinking like, 215 00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:59.720 well, this this alien is just prompting him, this alien, this 216 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:07.480 alien is trying to figure out humans and ultimately just putting a mirror in his 217 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:11.319 face and just making him confront you know, who he is. And so 218 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:14.559 it's even cool that I could get that own, you know that inference myself, 219 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:17.240 you know, from your story, which is a sign of a well 220 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:21.119 written story that you can have people pull from it, you know what they 221 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:25.599 believe that could even be, you know, in addition to merely how you 222 00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:30.319 wrote it. Basically, bravo to you, no thank you. I'm thrilled 223 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:33.839 to even be a part of the Gray Rooms. I kind of stumbled onto 224 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:40.839 the podcast, I believe mid or early third season, and I have been 225 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:45.680 following ever since. Excellent. Well speaking up, So how then did it 226 00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:49.599 feel then when you first hit play and got to hear your story turned into 227 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:55.680 this epic space drama. It was one of those goose bults moments. You 228 00:17:55.720 --> 00:18:00.920 know, I listened to the podcasts in all my drive to and from work 229 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:07.240 and just to start hearing the character speak UM. And you know, I've 230 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:10.839 listened to to other behind the doors, and you know, everyone's like, 231 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:12.599 that's exactly what I had in my head, That's exactly what I had in 232 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:17.319 my head. And it wasn't exactly what I had in my head. And 233 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:22.759 it was better, um to an extent, because I love that interpretation UM, 234 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:27.160 the ability of other creative forces to come and collaborate on a story and 235 00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:32.160 making something completely unique. So it being different than what I had in my 236 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:36.960 head, I really enjoyed. And so I drove my entire drive home, 237 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:41.920 my thirty minutes or whatever in the in the car, and my arms just 238 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:45.960 had goosebumps the whole time. It was a wonderful, wonderful experience. And 239 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:49.079 are you familiar with David Cummings, you know, being from the No Sleep 240 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:52.160 podcast. I have to say, I haven't listened to the Now Sleep. 241 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:56.799 I'm old. But you've got new stuff to listen to, my friend, 242 00:18:57.319 --> 00:19:02.000 new stuff to listen I've got so much much UM. But podcasts are not 243 00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:07.680 you know, obviously my even my ignorance with discord here. Um, I 244 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:11.079 haven't listened to a ton of podcasts, so there are so many that I'm 245 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:15.960 finding I need to catch up on. Um and No Sleep's one of those 246 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:18.720 that's that's definitely on the list. Yeah, it can be daunting because they've 247 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:22.680 they've got so many seas. I think they're only season seventeen or sixteen or 248 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:26.519 something like that. Well, then, how did you find The Gray Rooms? 249 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:32.799 I was. I spend you know, most of my gen X time 250 00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:38.880 on Facebook, and something popped up that The Gray Rooms was open to submissions, 251 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:41.960 and I'm like, okay, well let me go listen to this. 252 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:45.240 And I went and found you guys on Spotify and started listening. I'm like, 253 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:49.400 I'm down, I could. I would totally love to submit to this. 254 00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:55.039 And it it this acceptance or that, you know. When when this 255 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:56.880 script was picked up, I was in the middle of writing a couple of 256 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:00.240 things, but I was coming out of a very long, long writing slump 257 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:06.160 and uh, this just kind of helped pull me out and kept me moving 258 00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:12.119 forward. So it was just awesome stumbling upon and kismet made right. Yeah, 259 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:15.799 that's awesome. I love when that synergy is felt. Especially when you 260 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:21.359 know authors and writers, you know, feel proud of hearing, you know, 261 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:23.960 something they've written turned into an audio drama. And especially for you that 262 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:30.160 if you're not very familiar with audio dramas, that's got to be a superstellar 263 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:33.839 feeling inside. Like you said you had goosebumps. I mean, that just 264 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:38.079 must be such an amazing feeling, maybe akin to someone writing their first script 265 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:42.119 for a television show and then seeing actors be like okay, picking up their 266 00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:47.640 script and then acting it out. That's that's a level above just knowing people 267 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:52.200 read your story. I suppose, Oh, it's totally enjoyable. And my 268 00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:57.039 ideas of audio dramas, to be fair, were colored by listening to the 269 00:20:57.079 --> 00:21:02.960 shadow and you know, the older radio plays. Um, I was a 270 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:06.640 vinyl collector, so I enjoyed that and then stumbling, you know, hearing 271 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:11.680 about the gray rooms and podcasts like this. I'm on a journey now to 272 00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:15.480 get into a new world of things that I enjoyed years ago, but in 273 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:19.319 a completely new format, a digital format, which is which is wonderful. 274 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:23.160 Yeah. When I when I was little, I grew up listening to Joe 275 00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:30.440 Frank, and Joe Frank would had this very steady, deep voice, and 276 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:34.200 we're talking like late eighties, early nineties, and he would write his own 277 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:38.200 stuff. I just really short stories that maybe lasted ten fifteen minutes, and 278 00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:41.279 he'd read them and they would just be like a steady driving like hum in 279 00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:48.000 the background, some kind of slight melodic whatever or not. But his stories 280 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:55.960 were just fantastically out of the ordinary, and there was something so just pulled 281 00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:59.480 me in. I just I just I'd hear him telling the story and my 282 00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:03.720 brain would just be firing at me all of these visuals of what was happening. 283 00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:07.039 It was so unique to me, especially in the nineties. And then 284 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:08.480 I turned on like a cartoon and my brain would just shut off and I 285 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:11.519 would just watch you know, Ren and Stimpy, You're hitting each other with 286 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:15.559 mallets, and it just it wasn't the same, you know. So then 287 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:18.160 when podcasts came out in I mean for me, I didn't discover them to 288 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:21.839 like, you know, the twenty tens, I was like, oh shit, 289 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:23.440 this is just like my childhood, this is this is amazing, and 290 00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:27.960 I jumped right into into podcasts, you know, especially audio drama. It's 291 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:33.920 just such a unique platform I think for delivering a story so welcome aboard. 292 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:37.160 It really is. And I was thinking about this actually, I was listening 293 00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:45.039 to the episode again today earlier this morning, and the cinematic effect that I 294 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:52.200 got from the entire show, one of the key points at the very beginning, 295 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:56.119 we have the narration of the commander and then we transition to the bridge 296 00:22:56.279 --> 00:23:03.599 and the music that carries us where I felt like it was any other space 297 00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:07.319 film, like it was. We have a shot of a guy floating out 298 00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:11.359 into space, and then we roll the camera through the endless black of space 299 00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:17.599 and then focus right there on the ship and then cut the bridge, and 300 00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:25.440 it just from the sound alone carried me inside this, this cinematic imagery. 301 00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:30.799 It was thrilling. Yeah. JM is a beast when it comes to composing, 302 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:33.559 and it's well, that's why we are so lucky that we have this 303 00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:37.920 team where Jason can produce and put together the sounds, you know, the 304 00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:41.440 audio, and put everything together. You know, as he always says, 305 00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:45.839 fly on the wall. He wants you to be in the story experiencing it. 306 00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:48.759 And then jam comes along, He's like, hey, let me fiddle 307 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:52.599 around and on the keyboard and put some music to that too, Like we're 308 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.519 just we're just surrounded by talent. I gotta tell you a quick story. 309 00:23:56.160 --> 00:24:00.960 Jason was telling me in the team when he was doing some of the scenes 310 00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:04.240 where you know, I guess like we're outside the spaceship or whatnot, you 311 00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:08.319 know, like you're talking about and then we go inside. He was he 312 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:12.039 was trying to work with like different tones to put in the background because you 313 00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:15.160 know, clearly if space there's no sound in space, right, So that 314 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:18.279 doesn't work well for an audio drama. If there's no sound, there's no 315 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:22.880 story, there's no there's no show. So you kind of have to fudget, 316 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:25.359 like you know, like on Back to Star Trek. On Star Trek, 317 00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:29.559 you always hear the home of the spaceship itself when the camera is outside 318 00:24:29.559 --> 00:24:33.240 the spaceship, you know, as the spaceship floats past the camera. Basically, 319 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:38.400 So he was experimenting with tones, and he says he put himself to 320 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:42.759 sleep at the computer because he must have hit just the right frequency, you 321 00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:45.880 know, like those binural beats that people listen to to fall asleep at night. 322 00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:51.880 He straight knocked himself out with the headphones on. Just it was just 323 00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:57.160 like plugging away like in the sound. And that's awesome, totally totally passed 324 00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:02.039 out in the middle of producing your story, so that that is wonderful. 325 00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:06.480 That is wonderful. I fall asleep to the sound of the Enterprise some nights 326 00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:08.640 that there's like a ten hour loop on YouTube and I'll just play it and 327 00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:12.640 get to sleep. So is that perfect frequency? It definitely like lulls you 328 00:25:12.680 --> 00:25:17.359 into a into a slumber. It reminds us I guess of being in the 329 00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:19.640 womb or something like. That's what I'm told the psychology is. I'll buy 330 00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:23.759 it. I'll take that. Yeah. So hey, so as a writer, 331 00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:26.920 you you have said about other things that you've written, like what what 332 00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.400 do you do? What is your style? What do you write? Um, 333 00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:33.400 well, I'm all over the place. Like I said, I had 334 00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:37.000 quite the hiatus, but in the early two thousands I was publishing comic books. 335 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:44.640 UM did a lot through eight or three studios. Had a book kind 336 00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:52.960 of a quirky little love story with a woman and her robot friend through Arcanic 337 00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:56.279 Comics, and actually had a issue of the Ride come out through Image. 338 00:25:56.279 --> 00:26:03.240 So I love experimenting with a sup for natural the horror aspect, science fiction, 339 00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:08.039 those sorts of things through comics and I do a few screenplays. Um, 340 00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:12.680 recently, I've actually just wrapped my second draft of another one. So 341 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:17.039 I enjoy writing those things. And then, of course I have a children's 342 00:26:17.079 --> 00:26:23.319 story and another horror short on Amazon that came out of my Yola book of 343 00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:30.200 flood Celebrations. I decided to start writing for my kids each year instead of 344 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.200 just giving them other people's books. So, um, that's been fun. 345 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:40.440 Yeah, that's that's that's definitely cool. I'm that's so you're used to You're 346 00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:44.319 he used to writing things? Then it sounds like you're used to writing things 347 00:26:44.359 --> 00:26:48.319 that are picked up by a team of other people and turned into something more 348 00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:52.480 than just words on a piece of paper. Oh yeah, I've worked with 349 00:26:53.000 --> 00:27:00.079 some amazing artists that would convert words into sequential illustration, you know, the 350 00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:03.759 comic pages and that sort of thing. And it's it's always been an amazing 351 00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:11.160 experience to watch someone else take your story and not make it their own completely, 352 00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:15.759 but turn it into something that they really have a strong influence over. 353 00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:21.799 And it's just it's it's amazing. I don't even know how better to state 354 00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:23.759 it. You know, I went through film school and managed to write the 355 00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:30.400 scripts for our little student films, and while they weren't phenomenal or good in 356 00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:34.720 general, they were they were fun because you get to hand this thing off 357 00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:38.039 that you're really close to as a writer, you're really close to your stories, 358 00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:42.839 and you hand it to other people and it's a trustful you know, 359 00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:48.720 it's okay, this is my baby, and it's not going to come out 360 00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:52.039 exactly the way you thought. But I mean that's all parentage. Your kids 361 00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:56.640 never come out the way you think, and your stories and never do either, 362 00:27:56.160 --> 00:28:00.559 even if you had full control. And you write an entire novel, 363 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:04.319 hand it to the public and it becomes something completely different when they read it. 364 00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:08.359 So um, it's just wonderful to see the stories grow up and make 365 00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:11.960 their way into the world. That is the realest thing I have ever heard 366 00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:18.160 of. Writers say, Man, if we could quote behind the Doors for 367 00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:21.400 Days to come, you just earned your very first quote right there. That 368 00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:26.680 was amazing. Absolutely, ah yeah, a trust fall knowing that, like 369 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:30.400 you're offering this up and it's going to be interpreted, you know a certain 370 00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.759 way. That's amazing because some writers might be like, no, no, 371 00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:37.720 no, I don't want that character to sound that way. Now knew, 372 00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:41.599 I don't like the way you made that sound like, well, I'm totally 373 00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:44.359 like that, but you know, I'm totally like that. But at the 374 00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:48.359 same time, you know, it's it's the reality. It's it's you know, 375 00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:56.440 you sit back and and we write because we're fairly narcissistic and we have 376 00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:00.200 our ideas we have to share with the world. But the reality is is 377 00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:03.359 that last part of the statement share with the world. It's something we're putting 378 00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:06.559 out there, but the world's going to take it and make it their own. 379 00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:14.200 And I think that's a magical, a magical thing that that we're touching 380 00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:22.759 people in ways we never never could fathom a on a just a conversational level. 381 00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:26.640 Ah yeah, it's an interpretive legacy, and it's a way for you 382 00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:30.400 to kind of live on even past your own you know, meat suit falling 383 00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:36.200 apart and being buried in the ground, that you'll be remembered as the writer 384 00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:40.200 of something you know that you know that like the story of ours, right, 385 00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:41.279 you know, as long as there is an internet, as long as 386 00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:47.440 you know, we have electricity to keep the servers going a long past you 387 00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:51.839 and I ever, living like your story will be part of the cannon of 388 00:29:51.880 --> 00:29:53.559 the gray rooms. Right, you know, when we're hitting season twenty five 389 00:29:53.720 --> 00:29:59.519 twenty six, please you know hopefully you know that that's amazing to kind of 390 00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:02.640 leave that little bit of a legacy. Yeah, yeah, and and to 391 00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:06.319 know that people can come along and take take it and listen to it, 392 00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:08.119 and turn it about and stick it back on the table and look at it 393 00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:11.960 in different ways from any way that you ever even thought was gonna was gonna 394 00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:17.119 happen. It's absolutely beautiful, very poetic. So so what is horror to 395 00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:19.960 you? Though, like you you dip into other stuff, but still horror 396 00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:25.640 is kind of horror is my favorite genre. Yeah, and all sorts of 397 00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:32.559 horror. I think that horror serves a lot of functions, and I think 398 00:30:32.599 --> 00:30:37.000 you guys have dipped into this another behind behind the doors. But for me, 399 00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:42.759 horror is a punk as fuck in the face of taboo, tearing down 400 00:30:44.839 --> 00:30:52.680 social barriers to really confront those things that we find terrifying, whether it's physical, 401 00:30:52.720 --> 00:31:00.920 whether it's supernatural or or social. We we take on topics more freely 402 00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:07.200 in horror and in comedy, I think than than most anything else. And 403 00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:11.400 there's no way I could ever write comedy. So Horror's my thing. I 404 00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:18.640 dig that because you know, you think about primal man, that the humankind 405 00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:23.160 survived, telling stories where not to go, what things not to eat, 406 00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:27.680 what things to avoid from being slashed to pieces. You know, the things 407 00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:30.720 that frightened us, the things that killed us. Horror was the birth of 408 00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:37.279 human um, safety, human longevity, you know, And so I love 409 00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:40.519 the genre. Yeah, it's the bumpers that keep us in our lane. 410 00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:45.559 Absolutely yeah. And it knocks down, it knocks down barriers. You look 411 00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:51.640 at UM, the Child's Play series, and people hated on when it came 412 00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:53.440 out. You remember this, when when Seed of Chucky came out, people 413 00:31:53.480 --> 00:32:00.079 were talking so much trash. Well, that story flew in the face of 414 00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:06.400 normative gender roles back in the nineties. You know, it was I don't 415 00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:09.720 know, I'm rambling again, so I apologize, but you're not rambling at 416 00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:14.880 all. Those are the things about horror that absolutely adore, is that we 417 00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:21.839 can directly face taboos and traditions and knock them down if they don't hold up 418 00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:27.960 to um. What's what we feel is morally right, what's what's ethical? 419 00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:30.200 Yeah, yeah, we've said it, like you said, everyone has said 420 00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:35.720 it before on this show. That horror gives you that safe space to explore 421 00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:38.640 that which is uncomfortable, you know, and you can you can pull back 422 00:32:38.680 --> 00:32:42.000 if you don't like it. You don't have to listen to the story. 423 00:32:42.039 --> 00:32:45.240 You don't have to watch the movie, but if you do, you're gonna 424 00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:50.559 learn something, you know, versus just a regular Arnold Schwarzenegger action pack you 425 00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:52.279 know film, like Okay, yeah, I maybe learned how to punch a 426 00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:57.759 guy, but nothing, nothing really outside of that. But for sure there 427 00:32:57.799 --> 00:33:04.240 are different ways, um that we just something deep. Like you said that, 428 00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:10.079 it's still that primal person inside of us that gets touched by seeing something 429 00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:14.720 scary and being able to experience it. But you're experiencing, you know, 430 00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:17.960 adjacent to actually experience it in real life of course, because that just has 431 00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:21.880 its own set of learning, you know, if you're really going through, 432 00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:24.519 you know, some of the normal horrendous stuff that people on this planet unfortunately 433 00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:30.000 go through. But anyways, yeah, horror gives you the ability to learn 434 00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:34.519 and grow. And it's so funny because the average person, like I talked 435 00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:37.279 to my mom, she won't listen to the Gray Rooms because she's like, 436 00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:40.640 I just stab people and call people and there's blood and guts, Like, 437 00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:45.200 well, you don't get horror than mom. I'm so sorry, it's it's 438 00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:50.279 not for you then, But there's so many different types of the horrific too 439 00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:53.319 that whether they you know, I talked to so many people that just horror's 440 00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:57.359 not my thing. But then you talk to them about some of the things 441 00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:00.559 they do enjoy, and they're pulling out you know, Beetlejuice, which yeah, 442 00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:02.880 it was comedy, but it was a little horrific. You know, 443 00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:07.639 it was dealt with death and that sort of thing. You Um, the 444 00:34:07.679 --> 00:34:14.559 frightening episodes in Star Trek, Star Wars, and the the concept of the 445 00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:17.760 rising fascism and theocracy that they faced, you know, I mean the Sith 446 00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:22.400 and the Jedi were theocrats. Let's let's be honest. So you know, 447 00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:29.000 these are things that, yeah, our stories explore those maybe not directly horror, 448 00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:32.559 but with horrific tones that people gravitate to. Even if they think they 449 00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:36.840 hate horror, they actually do love it. Right. It's an umbrella that 450 00:34:37.159 --> 00:34:43.840 underneath it has has thriller, suspense, mystery, everything in between. Um. 451 00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:49.840 Yeah, So I just think they're the people who have only topically interacted 452 00:34:49.880 --> 00:34:52.280 with horror, and they just think that horror is just you know, a 453 00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:55.320 Jason or Freddie movie and that's about it, you know, And not that 454 00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:59.719 I feel bad for those people, but just whatever, choose what you want. 455 00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:01.559 That's beauty of this planet. We can choose our vices, we can 456 00:35:01.639 --> 00:35:05.920 choose our forms of entertainment. So no, you know, no, no 457 00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:07.800 one needs to be shoving horror down anybody's throat, like no, you just 458 00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:12.400 don't get it. You've got to do this instead. I'm so happy that 459 00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:16.079 you are writing and putting, you know, your thoughts out as stories then 460 00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:20.599 knowing that this is how you feel about it all because we just we just 461 00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:23.280 need more writers and authors to come from that stance, I think, to 462 00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:29.239 just kind of help grow the genre. I mean, horrors is worldwide anyways. 463 00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:31.719 You know, we have many horror stories from other cultures. You can 464 00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:37.599 go on, I love Shutter Somebody because it lets yeah, lets you see 465 00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:42.239 how other societies and cultures, you know, turn their own mythos into something 466 00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:45.199 scary. And it's far better than half the bullshit that America puts out. 467 00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:49.800 Um. You know, you just have to know what you're looking for well 468 00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:53.679 and on the statement of the foreign horrors better. Um, and I have 469 00:35:53.840 --> 00:36:00.280 horror friends we've had these random conversations, but I think we find those more 470 00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:06.079 horrific because their cultures, their societies are different, dealing with different traumas that 471 00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:09.840 are foreign to us, and we are, as as a human animal, 472 00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:15.920 terrified of the foreign. So we think foreign horror is so much better because 473 00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:21.440 it's unique to us. Over there, not so much. It's it's commonplaces. 474 00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:24.199 It's the stuff that they're used to seeing dealing with their own social traumas, 475 00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:30.679 and for us, they're just not traumas we've necessarily directly interacted with. 476 00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:34.119 But there are common threads that that frighten the hell out of us. So 477 00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:37.559 yep, yep. And that just goes right back to saying how it's so 478 00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.519 important to have that that that lends in order to focus on things and to 479 00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:45.639 see, you know, societal taboos through and to ultimately work them out, 480 00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:51.840 to parse through them and unlock them, you know, so more people can 481 00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:54.039 understand just what the hell is going on? Very important. We need more 482 00:36:54.079 --> 00:37:02.360 horror doctors to prescribe horror or do not disagree with that statement exactly. Hey, 483 00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:06.639 So as we draw to a close, here, tell me your social 484 00:37:06.639 --> 00:37:09.679 media is where people can find things that you write things that you feel, 485 00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:16.480 things that you say. UM, well being being the elder of the generations, 486 00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:22.119 there, Facebook is my haunt. I am. I am Tarta Ruckus 487 00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:28.000 on quite a few things Facebook, Twitter, discord UM those sorts of things. 488 00:37:28.039 --> 00:37:32.760 And obviously I've got um the Amazon author's page, which anyone can find 489 00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:39.199 by searching out my name. But um, one of the really quick wanted 490 00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:45.199 to throw this out there, the naming of my characters. I did want 491 00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:47.679 to throw that out because there were specific reasons why I shows the names of 492 00:37:47.719 --> 00:37:52.440 the characters. If we have time for that, UM, go for it. 493 00:37:52.880 --> 00:38:00.679 So Mendisa the the gun and Engineer was named after Mendesa Lati for Thomas, 494 00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:04.880 who is the president of Black Nonbelievers. She's a spokesperson and that sort 495 00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:07.159 of thing. I respect her work for years. So I had to put 496 00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:16.519 a character in there that was intelligent and self self contained and self sufficient and 497 00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:22.400 for him to hate on. Jared Washington's based on a hip hop artist and 498 00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:28.840 tattoo artist that I love, Jared Jenkins Lefty ends On band. And then 499 00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:34.199 there's um Quintero. Captain Kintaro is named after a co worker of mine. 500 00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:40.559 He's an amazing artist and designer out of Puerto Rico and Dak Bradley was more 501 00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:47.639 conceptual trans man that was silenced throughout the entire script, only referred to as 502 00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:53.719 a secondary character, but was named after Tom Brady, the All American. 503 00:38:53.840 --> 00:39:00.559 But I wanted this trans man silence by society. That really is kind of 504 00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:05.079 I wanted to play with that Washington and Bradley and and All American sort of 505 00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:08.480 naming system there. So again, apologize for the rant, but I'm findable. 506 00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:13.840 I'm sure I take off some people that they can direct message me on 507 00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:16.480 Facebook and tell me how awful I am. I wonder love it. That 508 00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:22.320 just means you're doing it right exactly. You gotta you gotta ruffles of feathers, 509 00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:25.239 piss off a few people. That's gotta be the drive of writing, 510 00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:29.480 right feathers. Yes, yes, yes, you know you're doing something, 511 00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:34.760 You're you're touching someone some way. Yes. Well, it was great for 512 00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:37.920 you joining us tonight, Steve, and I appreciate you taking the time to 513 00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:39.880 sit and chat, and I thank you for sharing your world with us here 514 00:39:39.880 --> 00:39:45.440 in the Gray Rooms. Absolutely, I appreciate the opportunity. I'm looking forward 515 00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:50.639 to season five. Oh, we're all looking forward are we gonna get anything? 516 00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:52.280 Well, see, did you submit anything to us for season five? 517 00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:55.760 I did. I'm in season five. Ye. Yes, Okay, I 518 00:39:55.880 --> 00:39:59.280 was like, I was like trying to go back through my list now because 519 00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:01.360 we've we've gone through the submissions, we've figured out our stories. I just 520 00:40:01.480 --> 00:40:06.119 at the moment couldn't pull it into my head. So anyways, I got 521 00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:07.760 the email a couple of weeks ago, so I'm thrilled. I'm excited to 522 00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:12.079 hear it. There you go. Yeah, our last our last author also 523 00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:15.079 revealed on the show that they also got to say, Hey, congratulations, 524 00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:22.199 you'll be back looking forward to God. Yeah, And as usual, the 525 00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:25.519 biggest thank you goes out to our fans and followers who listened daily and spread 526 00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:29.960 the good word of Bob. May you languish, lament, and loathe, 527 00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:34.800 but always with love hashtag stay Gray, Take care and enjoy your evening. 528 00:40:34.840 --> 00:40:40.320 Stephen you as well, Thank you, and good night. Folks. Back 529 00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:54.519 join us each week after every episode for another intestion of behind Your