1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,759 How'd you like to listen to dot net rocks with no ads? Easy? 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:09,880 Become a patron For just five dollars a month you get access to a private 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:14,359 RSS feed where all the shows have no ADS. Twenty dollars a month will 4 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:18,800 get you that and a special dot net Rocks patron mug. Sign up now 5 00:00:18,839 --> 00:00:23,760 at Patreon dot dot net rocks dot com. Hey Carlin, Richard Here, 6 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:29,280 as you may have heard, NDC is back offering their incredible in person conferences 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,240 around the world, and we'd like to tell you about them. NDC Oslow 8 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:37,039 will be made twenty first through the twenty fifth. Go to NDC Oslo dot 9 00:00:37,119 --> 00:00:42,759 com to register. NDC Copenhagen is happening August twenty seventh through the thirty first. 10 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:48,960 Go to NDC Copenhagen dot com for more information. NDC Porto is happening 11 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:53,280 October sixteenth through the twentieth. The early bird discount for DC Porto ends July 12 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:58,280 twenty first. Go to Eddcporto dot com to register and check out the full 13 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:18,400 lineup of conferences at DC conferences dot com. Hey, welcome back to dot 14 00:01:18,439 --> 00:01:22,319 net Rocks. This is Carl Franklin and this is Richard Campbell and uh wow, 15 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,159 this is gonna be a good talk. Huh doom sharp, It's gonna 16 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,200 be some fun. Yeah, it's gonna be fun. A couple of Belgians 17 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,599 on Friday night. You know they got beers. I'm sure they got beers. 18 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,879 What could go wrong? It could go wrong? Yeah, how you 19 00:01:34,879 --> 00:01:38,200 doing, buddy? I am well, you know, it was a real 20 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,799 flurry of travel for a while there, but finally I am in a place 21 00:01:42,519 --> 00:01:48,879 so at home for a few weeks before MVP summit, right yeah, And 22 00:01:49,159 --> 00:01:52,400 I will not be going to the MVP summit, but I wish you the 23 00:01:52,439 --> 00:01:55,719 best, have a good time. Yeah, it's only a drive for me, 24 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,040 right, like right, there's almost no excuse not to go, and 25 00:01:59,159 --> 00:02:00,799 only gonna do is drive. I'm down. So what's up with you? 26 00:02:01,159 --> 00:02:05,840 Ah? Well, Um, here's an interesting thing. I got an email 27 00:02:06,079 --> 00:02:12,000 from Freeconomics Radio. Cool, Yeah, Freconomics, great podcast and great books. 28 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,879 And they basically want to interview somebody who's kind of local to me, 29 00:02:19,159 --> 00:02:23,000 and they wanted to know if my studio is available for them to, you 30 00:02:23,039 --> 00:02:27,599 know, for me to host a guest. And they use Riverside and they're 31 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:34,479 like, you know, do you do podcasts? Since before the word podcast 32 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,240 exists. Yeah. Yes, so I'm really chuffed. They're going to um, 33 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:43,479 they're gonna bring somebody in later in the week and they're going to record 34 00:02:43,599 --> 00:02:46,360 from my space. Nice. So you're just going to do production work for 35 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:51,120 them to host the guests. All I'm doing is hosting and making sure that 36 00:02:51,159 --> 00:02:53,960 they that we get a local recording and they're using riverside, you know. 37 00:02:54,039 --> 00:02:58,759 So it's yeah, so that I'm going to do a local wayfile recording with 38 00:02:58,879 --> 00:03:01,240 audition just to be safe, finge or you know, leave them alone for 39 00:03:01,319 --> 00:03:07,800 an hour and hopefully you get credit. Yeah. Yeah, so that's what's 40 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,560 exciting to me. Hey, let's roll the crazy music for better no framework. 41 00:03:20,199 --> 00:03:23,840 So I actually created a class out of necessity and it was so useful 42 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:28,199 that I created a class library made a new get package out of it. 43 00:03:28,199 --> 00:03:35,159 It's called AVN observable and so this is I basically use observable collection of T 44 00:03:35,439 --> 00:03:39,439 as the base class. So observable collection of T is a list or a 45 00:03:39,479 --> 00:03:47,800 collection that's generic that essentially allows you to handle events whenever the something in the 46 00:03:47,879 --> 00:03:55,919 list changes. Right, So I also included a selected item T property, 47 00:03:57,159 --> 00:04:00,199 So whatever the T is that you you know, the type is that you 48 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,680 pass in the selected item property will be of that type as well, and 49 00:04:04,759 --> 00:04:10,560 it handles all the stuff that you need for binding. So there's weirdness when 50 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:15,560 you're binding with collections and you have the sort of selecting item and edit it, 51 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,519 and what happens after you edit it? Does you know? The list 52 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:26,279 has to update? The UI has to update, right, So basically that's 53 00:04:26,319 --> 00:04:30,439 that's what it does. And I wrote a Blazer demo, a MAUI demo, 54 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,959 a WPF demo, in a Windows Forms demo, and it's all there 55 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:38,399 in the in the GitHub repost. So it's GitHub dot com, slash Carl 56 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:43,319 Franklin, slash avn observable. Nice. That's cool, man, It is 57 00:04:43,319 --> 00:04:46,199 cool. And I love that that is a possible solution, right. It's 58 00:04:46,199 --> 00:04:49,800 like, hey, I can work around this in my app, or I 59 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,759 can just make a new library. Yeah, abstract that problem away so it's 60 00:04:54,759 --> 00:04:58,639 consistent across the stacks exactly. I love it. Yeah, that's a good 61 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:00,360 idea. So who's talking to it? My friend grabbed a comment off a 62 00:05:00,399 --> 00:05:05,680 show eighteen thirty three, the one we did at Sweatuga, the Maui panel 63 00:05:05,759 --> 00:05:11,480 discussion when we talked to David and Maddie and had a lot of good conversation. 64 00:05:11,519 --> 00:05:14,279 That was really a fun show. And that's actually where the show we're 65 00:05:14,319 --> 00:05:16,639 about to do came from. I think they're all talking and Sweden about this. 66 00:05:17,079 --> 00:05:20,639 Yeah, and jayon Software had this comment. He says, I have 67 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,759 not done any friend end work at c sharp for the past ten years or 68 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,680 so. I went to what's you when it comes to front end development in 69 00:05:27,759 --> 00:05:31,319 c sharp space? And I am lost Microsoft alone as so many front end 70 00:05:31,319 --> 00:05:35,720 frameworks from Windforms, web Forms, MAUI, Blazer, WPF, whin ui 71 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:40,199 UWP. I think it's time you do a show comparing all of these. 72 00:05:40,519 --> 00:05:44,120 If not, I'm going to go back to coding everything in JavaScript and packaging 73 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,480 an electron. No, don't do that, Okay, Jay running around with 74 00:05:47,519 --> 00:05:50,399 the gun point of your own head saying one move and idiot gets it. 75 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,560 Not a good plan, Like that's not the way. You know, you 76 00:05:54,639 --> 00:05:57,800 can't blame Microsoft. I mean they have their their employees have to do something 77 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,839 when they come to work in the morning. You know, Yeah, we 78 00:06:00,879 --> 00:06:03,519 need to fix this. Oh, let's make a new framework. Yeah, 79 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:08,160 we've done this show, Like, go back and have a listen. To 80 00:06:08,199 --> 00:06:11,199 the show we did with Brian Lagunis a couple of years ago. We ran 81 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,519 down those stacks. We've also talked about Abylonia. We've talked about Oh no, 82 00:06:15,879 --> 00:06:19,040 like I'm aware of the complexities, and we've definitely been working on the 83 00:06:19,079 --> 00:06:25,879 problem because it's a sharcated problem. Yeah, but you know, nothing's gonna 84 00:06:25,879 --> 00:06:30,120 make me build it an electron man. That's a tough call. So you 85 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,680 know, go ahead, Jivid, try on some of the choices, and 86 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,600 we're going to talk about some of the crazy stuff you could do. We 87 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:40,560 see Sharpe and Maui today. Yeah, so, Jay, thank you so 88 00:06:40,639 --> 00:06:42,879 much for your comment. And a copy of music Code Buy is on its 89 00:06:42,879 --> 00:06:45,120 way to you. And if you'd like a copy of music Code by right 90 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,000 a comment on the website at dot net rocks dot com or on the facebooks. 91 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,319 We publish every show there, and if you comment there and everything the 92 00:06:50,399 --> 00:06:54,319 show, we'll send you a copy music Code Buy. And hey, you 93 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,480 know what, you can follow us on Twitter if you want to, but 94 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,639 you should follow us on Mastodon. I'm at Carl Franklin at tech hub dot 95 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:05,600 social, and I'm Rich Campbell at maston Social And now I think We've had 96 00:07:05,639 --> 00:07:10,600 more engagement on masketon lately than we have had on Twitter, even though I 97 00:07:10,639 --> 00:07:15,639 have like a thousand followers or so and I have almost fifteen thousand followers on 98 00:07:15,639 --> 00:07:19,720 Twitter. Seems like the Twitter followers just don't comment as much or retweet as 99 00:07:19,839 --> 00:07:24,040 much. There's just more noise out there, I think. Yeah, the 100 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,839 folks that are on mastone are pretty engaged, which is fun. Yeah, 101 00:07:27,879 --> 00:07:30,560 that's what I'm trying to say, Richard. Yeah, all right, let's 102 00:07:30,639 --> 00:07:35,879 bring on our guests. Wesley Cabooz and Nico vermach So. Wesley is a 103 00:07:35,959 --> 00:07:42,120 coding architect at x Spirit in Belgium by day and a gaming slash piano playing 104 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,680 geek at night. He loves sharing his knowledge with others and tries to coach 105 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:51,079 people in doing the same by co organizing meetups in Belgium and speaking at conferences. 106 00:07:51,120 --> 00:08:00,519 And sometimes he gets crazy ideas like pouring doom into c sharp. Who 107 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:05,000 would do that? He's gone crazy, That's not a thing. And Nickovermack 108 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:11,759 is a application architect or an application architect and Microsoft MVP from Belgium. He's 109 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:16,199 part of the Belgian Visual Studio user group and a crew member of Tech orama 110 00:08:16,279 --> 00:08:18,959 where you and I are going to be speaking in May, right, Richard, 111 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,079 Yeah, absolutely, and probably recording a few shows. Yeah, and 112 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,720 I'm doing a Malley workshop. Cool. When not playing around with technology, 113 00:08:28,079 --> 00:08:33,919 you can find Nico playing guitar or riding his motorcycle. I sense that there's 114 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,159 this music kind of thing happening, and maybe what clued me into this is 115 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,639 all the instruments that are hanging on the wall and set up behind you. 116 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:46,080 It's just like you're like a rock band set here. Yes, so this 117 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,480 is actually the rehearsal space of my heart ruck slash heavy metal cover band. 118 00:08:50,639 --> 00:08:54,679 Wow. Nice. What's the name of your band? It doesn't actually have 119 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,759 an official name yet, so we've only been around for a couple of months 120 00:08:58,039 --> 00:09:01,840 or just getting to know each oldn Okay And who is speaking? Is this 121 00:09:01,879 --> 00:09:07,679 Wesley or Nico? N Okay? Nico, I have I have a suggestion 122 00:09:07,759 --> 00:09:16,559 for the name of your band. It should be Yeah, didn't you spill 123 00:09:16,639 --> 00:09:28,919 that out? Oh man, it's my friend, uh great drummer who plays 124 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:33,000 with us once in a while. He also plays in this just absolute scream 125 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,279 oh band you know, and uh, yeah, I always have let's say 126 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:48,440 the name of this band is and this song is called all right. Well, 127 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,039 anyway, where do we start doom and c sharp who had the crazy 128 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,519 idea in the first place? Well, yeah, that would be me, 129 00:09:56,039 --> 00:10:03,200 Wesley. Yeah. So, um, to get started was I saw this 130 00:10:03,399 --> 00:10:09,200 video on the internet by David Whitney. You know, he did the session 131 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:15,759 a while ago on emulating a game Boy in Donet Corps, and that actually 132 00:10:15,799 --> 00:10:20,200 got to be inspired to try to do the same. So yeah, I 133 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:26,159 started with that, reading all about the game boy, trying to create the 134 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:31,279 emulator and so on so forth. A few weeks months nights later, I 135 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:39,679 had something working. Also could do some sessions at local meetups and conferences on 136 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:46,600 the same topic, and then I thought, hmm, that's done. What's 137 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:52,000 next? Because I know David was talking about looking at he was looking at 138 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,919 the Mario sixty four source code from Nintendo that was released, So essentially you're 139 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,639 by emulator. You mean like you can take the ROMs out of these games 140 00:11:01,639 --> 00:11:03,840 and run them out of PC or Mac. Yeah indeed, yeah, yeah, 141 00:11:03,919 --> 00:11:09,039 and that's now running in dotnet six as well on Windows forms. But 142 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:15,519 then after a while, because I was actually looking into also creating a blazer, 143 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:20,320 was some version of that but I got stuck because treading was not a 144 00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:22,080 thing yet, right, right. So I was looking at another project, 145 00:11:22,159 --> 00:11:26,120 and I was talking with David and he was looking at the Mario sixty four, 146 00:11:26,159 --> 00:11:30,639 and I thought, maybe this time I need to do something different than 147 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:35,759 just copying David. And then I thought, why not poor Doom because the 148 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:41,559 source code is also available, and well I had just Doom use an engine 149 00:11:41,639 --> 00:11:43,799 that other games use. Or is it just that one game. It's just 150 00:11:43,919 --> 00:11:48,120 that one game. Yeah, I mean it's from the it's from the early 151 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:52,399 nineties, right, like this is vintage vintage. Yeah. Yeah, I 152 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,360 remember when it came out, but I don't know if it had evolved. 153 00:11:56,039 --> 00:11:58,720 Well, the only thing that evolved in the original source code is that they 154 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:07,200 they run both the Doom one UH files and also Doom two, so they 155 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,840 use the same EXE file for both of the games. But that's all that 156 00:12:11,879 --> 00:12:16,399 they really do. So it was not I don't I don't think it was 157 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,840 reused for something else. I mean it also written from the ground up, 158 00:12:20,879 --> 00:12:26,279 because they they've done it's software, did Wolfnstein? Yeah, before that, 159 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:31,519 but they they redid everything for Doom. They probably used some ideas, but 160 00:12:31,159 --> 00:12:35,480 it was written from scratch as far as I know. I mean, I 161 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,480 mean, ultimately they did make this thing called the Doom Engine, and that 162 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:45,399 eventually evolved into the Quake engine. Right, this is all John Carmack stuff, 163 00:12:45,519 --> 00:12:48,159 right, like, yeah, the same guy that's like Oculus, and 164 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,639 you know now it is quit from those guys, Like that's all Carmack. 165 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:56,919 Wow. Yeah, I never I never got into the scrolling shoot them up 166 00:12:56,919 --> 00:13:01,639 games, but I certainly watched my friends play them. So so what happened 167 00:13:01,639 --> 00:13:05,679 next? Well, I just well, I say, I just but I 168 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:11,679 opened up the repository and I just got started at the first thing, which 169 00:13:11,799 --> 00:13:20,440 is trying to load the wat file, which is where's all the data. 170 00:13:20,519 --> 00:13:28,559 It's it's just one big file which has a directory structure, and then saying 171 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:33,559 if you want to load the first map, then you have to jump to 172 00:13:33,639 --> 00:13:37,080 that byte location in this file. And then you have a list of the 173 00:13:37,159 --> 00:13:41,879 map contents like the vertegues, the lines, the sectors and the textures being 174 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,639 used and whatnot. So it's all binary. There's no Jason here or anything. 175 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:52,480 Yeah, that's all. That's all good old binary asky data. And 176 00:13:54,440 --> 00:14:00,120 then I just started writing code using the typical stream reader stuff. In in 177 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,360 dot net to try and read the file. And the first thing that I 178 00:14:03,399 --> 00:14:09,279 wanted to show is the logo when you start the game, so you get 179 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,799 that big doom logo in your face. That's the guy with the two guns, 180 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:18,799 you know, with lemons all around him. Yeah. So um. 181 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,879 I started working on that part and the game loop, which was at that 182 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:31,360 point just running get what file, show something on screen. And I got 183 00:14:31,399 --> 00:14:37,960 that far actually pretty quickly, so that was a real good motivation to keep 184 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:43,080 going. And then I started working on the menu and then gradually working on 185 00:14:43,919 --> 00:14:52,279 just sporting file by file until I got the first renders of the first level. 186 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,639 Yeah. Wow, okay, Now, I mean all the underlying code 187 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,320 was written in C, right, like yeah, so yeah, I mean 188 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,960 I could see you crime and end the WAZ but how did it end up 189 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:07,559 in dot net? Um? Yeah, you can translate C cos I mean, 190 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,639 it does help if you have knowledge of the C language, but it's 191 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:16,600 pretty portable to C sharp. Interesting. And also this is old school C. 192 00:15:16,879 --> 00:15:20,799 This is like nineteen ninety C. Yeah, yeah it is. But 193 00:15:20,919 --> 00:15:24,240 that's also benefit, probably because it doesn't use a lot of it doesn't use 194 00:15:24,279 --> 00:15:30,159 any classes or right, the fancy C plus plus things like multiple inheritance. 195 00:15:30,799 --> 00:15:37,679 How did the graphics translate? The graphics were Actually they use like indexed color, 196 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:43,320 so they have a different pellette of colors that they use, and then 197 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:48,240 they reference each color pixel by pixel and they just have a view on one 198 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:56,360 giant buffer filled with the pixels like line per line. Wow. So but 199 00:15:56,759 --> 00:15:58,480 yeah, so you have to be in a sort of a graphics mode though, 200 00:16:00,799 --> 00:16:03,799 and the c sharp that doesn't. I didn't. I didn't know c 201 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,159 sharp was fast enough to do that without some sort of direct dex or some 202 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:11,480 sort of you know, it can handle it perfectly fine without anything of that 203 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:18,120 likely. Yeah, I'm well, I started using WPF for the window, 204 00:16:19,039 --> 00:16:23,200 and I just use double buffering, so I have one array of screen bytes 205 00:16:23,279 --> 00:16:27,080 coming in and then when that's done, I flipped the buffers and that's more 206 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:33,120 than fast enough. Then you get sixty frames a second that way, Um, 207 00:16:33,559 --> 00:16:37,320 it's not sixty because the doom engine is only thirty fps. But right, 208 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,399 you don't see any stutters or anything, so I'm pretty sure that I'm 209 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,639 hitting the thirty fps. It occurs to me, though, that your screen 210 00:16:44,679 --> 00:16:48,600 resolution is also a lot lower than your typical PC screen, right, Yeah, 211 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,399 I think I don't know it out of my head, but I think 212 00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:56,279 it's three twenty by two forty. Yeah, yeah that makes sense now, 213 00:16:56,399 --> 00:17:00,440 yeah, nineteen nineties game. That helps, Yeah, that that helps. 214 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:06,000 Yeah, and then we just used the WPF up scaling to make it nicer. 215 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:08,640 Yeah, so you're only you know, you're drawing like seventy five thousand 216 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:14,119 pixels at three twenty by two hundred yep per frame. That's just that's not 217 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,400 that much day, it's not that bad. Yeah, it's just gonna look 218 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:22,200 a little small on my four K screen. Well, you can always give 219 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,880 it a go. It will actually look pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. 220 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:27,960 Do I say, you're you're doing the upscaling, which is you know, 221 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:33,160 efficient software. Ye are you? So are you using like texture maps or 222 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:40,480 anything like that for the three D stuff extruding? And it's I didn't introduce 223 00:17:40,559 --> 00:17:45,240 any new technology while porting. This is like one on one port from the 224 00:17:45,279 --> 00:17:48,240 original code. I even left the bugs and there wasn't any of that. 225 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,599 So no, yeah, they didn't use it. Um And it's also not 226 00:17:52,839 --> 00:17:57,200 real three D. It's like a pseudo three D that they're doing. They 227 00:17:57,279 --> 00:18:02,000 call it like two point five D something like that. Yeah, yeah, 228 00:18:02,079 --> 00:18:07,640 something like that because you can't move in the Z right dimension because if you 229 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,480 shoot straight and there's a there's someone above you, you'll actually shoot everyone in 230 00:18:11,519 --> 00:18:18,559 that vertical line right right? Oh I see yeah? So you so is 231 00:18:18,559 --> 00:18:21,039 it that you can't move in the y access because they know you can move 232 00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:23,200 forward over? Yeah? Why yeah, sorry, yeah, yeah, it's 233 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,680 a it's always strange thinking in three D. Right. So you can shoot 234 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,880 straight ahead, that's it. You can't go up or down. Yeah, 235 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,000 you shoot straight ahead and then if there's someone below you or above you, 236 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:37,359 as long as you can see them, you're hitting and gaining them. All 237 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,880 right. Wow, you weren't supposed to have above and below right like it' 238 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,359 all? This is also supposed to be that sort of dungeon, you know, 239 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,960 square grid moving around thing. So well, there is a bit of 240 00:18:48,039 --> 00:18:51,839 heights. There are stairs in the game, so you can move up the 241 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:56,279 stairs and then but I don't think there's jumping as far as I can recall 242 00:18:56,079 --> 00:19:00,480 before that, Like that's how old the game we're talking about. Goes shake 243 00:19:00,519 --> 00:19:03,640 in his head for jumping, Nico. What was your part in all this? 244 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,440 Well, my part started. You know what's up group that we're both 245 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:14,200 in and wes Lee was posting images of this progress. I would like, 246 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,240 oh, that's that sounds like fun. And then came a message, Hey, 247 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,960 you know I'm poorting Doom to C sharp. Would you like to try 248 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,839 to get it on mobile phones using Maui? And so yeah, that's what 249 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:34,880 I call a nerd snipe. Wow, So I cloned Wesle's coats. I 250 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:40,160 don't think I ever really looked at all the game codes because that I just 251 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,640 started a new or. I added a new Maui project to the solution. 252 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:51,200 I referenced the libraries, and everything just started building. So then I had 253 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,839 to figure out how to do the rendering because the right wall bit map was 254 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:59,920 not there on Maui, right, so I had to convert everything to ski 255 00:20:00,039 --> 00:20:03,680 yeah sharp. Yeah, of course it turns out that was it. The 256 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:08,440 index colors was not supported. Yeah, so yeah, there was a lot 257 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:15,680 of work to be done there. And sorry, the color mapping we've been 258 00:20:15,599 --> 00:20:19,240 yeah, yeah, at some point we got a very blue version of Dooms. 259 00:20:22,279 --> 00:20:30,359 It turns out that the two color channels were inverted on Maui. Yeah, 260 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,400 there's a lot of red and Doom normally, so you've got a lot 261 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,839 of blue there. Was a lot of blue. All the demons are bleeding 262 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:45,319 blue, and it was almost doomed, doomed by IF sixty five. And 263 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:49,079 then of course it was converting the physical controls to touch based. What's the 264 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,000 right way to make it work on a phone? Yeah, but that's also 265 00:20:52,039 --> 00:20:59,680 where you saw the cross platform thing coming to play. I could just capture 266 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,559 the the dutchy events on the images that I used as controls, and I 267 00:21:03,559 --> 00:21:07,039 could just plus it into Wesley's code and it would just work. And that 268 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,400 was a really interesting exercise. Yeah, and I'm kidding, Yeah, wasd 269 00:21:11,519 --> 00:21:15,119 doesn't not doesn't make a lot of sense on the phone. No, and 270 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,160 apparently neither does it in Maui, even though you can you can target desktop 271 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:25,200 platforms. Right, does it actually work on the Windows and Mac platforms? 272 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,039 I haven't tried it on the Mac yet, but it does run on Windows. 273 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,000 So if you run the Maui version on Windows, it uses win Youwi. 274 00:21:33,279 --> 00:21:37,000 Yeah. Right. Mac is definitely the redheaded stepchild of Maui, isn't 275 00:21:37,039 --> 00:21:41,279 it, maco es Yes, it's kind of like the last priority. Well, 276 00:21:41,279 --> 00:21:45,519 when I was running it on my laptop using Maui through win Ui, 277 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:51,039 um, I figured how hard can it be to to make use of the 278 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:56,640 keyboard U turns out it's kind of hard because keyboard support is not there for 279 00:21:56,759 --> 00:22:00,880 MAUI, right, Oh really, except when you're in input controls like a 280 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,960 textbox, then it just works. But if you just want to capture your 281 00:22:06,079 --> 00:22:10,759 key down and key up events, it doesn't work. MAUI swallows them all. 282 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:17,839 So what I needed to do was arriety behavior that crawls up the visual 283 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:22,279 tree all the way until I exit MAUGI land, and then I can hook 284 00:22:22,319 --> 00:22:26,480 up event handers in the actual WINDU eye controls and that made it work. 285 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:32,079 But about three weeks to figure that out. But it's that's all specific to 286 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:37,759 the Windows implementation, right, Like so much reportability on that part. Yeah, 287 00:22:37,759 --> 00:22:41,519 but it does show the strength of MAUI to go cross platform and platform 288 00:22:41,559 --> 00:22:45,920 specific at the same time, right, Yeah, the fact that you can 289 00:22:45,079 --> 00:22:49,400 poke down into the platform stuff. But when you went to if you were 290 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,799 going to now do this for the Mac, you're gonna have to write it 291 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,759 some different platform or like, does that end up being a separate set of 292 00:22:55,759 --> 00:23:00,160 files or is that just that if Windows, then if Mac, then the 293 00:23:00,599 --> 00:23:04,279 behaviors are actually different files. But then the goats to attach them is actually 294 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,440 the preprocessor of things. I mean, that's the whole the basics of the 295 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,680 game, right, Like, where where does the game get weirder from there? 296 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,720 I'm just trying to remember that's it's an old game now, But does 297 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:21,279 it get any extra challenges when you get to like the boss levels, it 298 00:23:21,319 --> 00:23:25,920 will probably press right now if you try to get that far right, I 299 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,359 can remember being able to go to the next level. Yeah, took a 300 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,480 while too. Yeah, that's a good milestones like get a level to work, 301 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,400 be able to finish a level, like actually, okay, you you're 302 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:37,880 at the end, now, can we load a new level? Well, 303 00:23:38,079 --> 00:23:44,039 loading the new level was probably already working, because that's also happening when you 304 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,880 load the first level. But in between you get this intermission screening doom where 305 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,200 they show you the map of full boss oh right, the planet where you're 306 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:57,039 on, and then that's right, you're doing you're doing the moons of Mars. 307 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:02,240 And then they show you you just had that level done. This is 308 00:24:02,279 --> 00:24:07,599 your result. You had like that many enemies you killed? You killed all 309 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,720 of them or killed only a percentage? Right? You found so many items, 310 00:24:11,759 --> 00:24:15,200 you found so many secrets, and you took way too much time to 311 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,039 get there. This level is like double in thirty seconds according to them, 312 00:24:19,079 --> 00:24:23,519 And if you want to go through everything, you take typically four or five 313 00:24:23,559 --> 00:24:27,279 minutes, right, if you know the level. If you don't know the 314 00:24:27,319 --> 00:24:30,960 level, it's going to be more. Well, we're completion this, right. 315 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,599 You have to find every secret, you have to kill every bad guy. 316 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:38,880 Yeah, but then it uses the state's insight to transfer from your playing 317 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:44,279 a level to you're going to the intermission screen and then you're loading the next 318 00:24:44,319 --> 00:24:49,480 level, and then the boss fight will might still work. But then after 319 00:24:49,519 --> 00:24:56,119 the boss dies, there's also a specific trigger that you need to implement because 320 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,119 you're not then going to an intermission screen, but you're going to go to 321 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,559 end of the episode screen. Yeah. It's like closing cut screen. Yeah, 322 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,920 and that's probably not working yet. Do you remember when playing eight bit 323 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:14,759 arcade games in the early eighties when if you got to level two hundred and 324 00:25:14,759 --> 00:25:18,480 fifty five, level two hundred and fifty six, it would just stop. 325 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,000 Yeah, it's like the killed screen. Yeah, back man, if you 326 00:25:23,039 --> 00:25:26,880 get too many points that your points go negative or something. Yeah, yeah, 327 00:25:27,079 --> 00:25:36,039 yeah, yeah, eight bit problems nothing like signed imagers how are the 328 00:25:36,279 --> 00:25:41,000 cut screens even stored? Like, that's a whole other problem. Um. 329 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,599 Some of them are just images, right, just like the logo. Um. 330 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:52,240 Others use scrolling text right, so they have a fund defined also in 331 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:57,920 textures, so to speak. And then they just rolled texts one digita or 332 00:25:59,039 --> 00:26:03,240 one character at a time. Um. And then they play a typical song 333 00:26:03,599 --> 00:26:07,240 during those screens as well music. I love it. Well, it's actually 334 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,759 midi files in this case. Wow, even more challenged by itself to me. 335 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:18,680 Yeah, yeah, parting midi files. Yeah, but those sound pretty 336 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:23,359 well on on a modern Windows machine because you have a pretty decent sound library 337 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,799 installed by default. Um, and if you want, if you if you 338 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:33,319 have like a good sound library yourself, you might be able to plug that 339 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,839 one in and have even better hi fi sound if you want. Yeah, 340 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,440 maybe better than the original. Yeah yeah, yeah, I think it already 341 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:47,119 sounds better than the original. Yeah, because I think they had to use 342 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,400 their own sound banks in the past. And then if you had, if 343 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,559 you had like a gust sound card, you could probably make it sound better. 344 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,799 I never had one cards. There's a card. Yeah. Me and 345 00:27:00,279 --> 00:27:04,039 sound Blaster, I have a history with the sound Blaster Richard knows. But 346 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:10,400 I was working for the company that did the midisequencer and the MIDI connector box 347 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,799 for the sound Blaster, and I wrote the MIDI files that come with it. 348 00:27:15,839 --> 00:27:18,440 So all the all the sampled MIDI files, that's me. Yeah, 349 00:27:18,559 --> 00:27:23,839 so a twelve year old me at your code running then, yeah, back 350 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,119 in the day. Well, I didn't write the code. I just wrote 351 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,400 the MIDI files. All right, Well, stick around because we're gonna have 352 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:37,680 more with Nico and Wesley coming right up after this. And we're back. 353 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,119 You're listening to dot Net and Rocks. I'm Carl Franklin. That's my buddy 354 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,720 Richard Campbell. Hey, and that's my new friends Nico and Wesley who were 355 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:52,160 going to see a tech orama and they're talking about doing c sharp port of 356 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:57,200 Doom. And I got to ask this question, if somebody wanted to look 357 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:03,720 at that code and maybe new c sharp but didn't know much about graphics programming, 358 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,240 are they going to learn something? What are they going to learn? 359 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:15,000 They're gonna learn probably a lot about how to get graphics on screen in the 360 00:28:15,039 --> 00:28:23,400 most elaborate way possible. But that's just because they, I mean, they 361 00:28:23,599 --> 00:28:29,079 in software had to write everything from scratch as well, keeping in mind that 362 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:36,079 it was supposed to run. I think they targeted at three eighty six CPU 363 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:41,680 in the day without a floating point coprocessor right, not a d X, 364 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:51,480 not a DX and sx indeed, which means they actually implemented a fixed floating 365 00:28:51,599 --> 00:28:59,799 point class themselves to do all of the trigonometry operations faster than they could do 366 00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:06,960 on a PC without the floating points math code processor. So if you want 367 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,519 to look at the graphics code, um, there's a part that's really easy, 368 00:29:11,599 --> 00:29:18,319 which is the just the basic logo images that's bitmap pixel data. But 369 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:26,720 then index colors um the renderer that's something else because they use the BSP trees 370 00:29:26,839 --> 00:29:32,279 where they they go through all the sectors to find out which sectors you're seeing, 371 00:29:32,359 --> 00:29:34,279 and then they find out which walls they need to render, and then 372 00:29:34,559 --> 00:29:40,960 which textures and then there's a light mapping and that's all them from scratch. 373 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:48,039 How how pretty was the original C code where the variables like abc x Y 374 00:29:48,759 --> 00:29:55,480 it was it commented the it's actually pretty well structured. Also a lot of 375 00:29:55,839 --> 00:30:00,200 decently named variables, and that's good. They do have the only the only 376 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,640 eyes and Jay's or counters, So that's fine. There are some, well, 377 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,720 quite a lot of comments in there. Some comments are not for publication. 378 00:30:11,839 --> 00:30:15,519 Yeah, I'm more appropriate than others. Yeah, do you come out 379 00:30:15,519 --> 00:30:19,519 across any comments like what the hell was I thinking here? There? There's 380 00:30:19,559 --> 00:30:25,680 a lot of those, and also I think there's still some we need to 381 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,720 fix this and something else. Yeah, from nineteen ninety three. I love 382 00:30:29,759 --> 00:30:33,079 it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because there's one bug in the code 383 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:40,400 that I noticed while I was coding well I want to say copying over, 384 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,480 but translating it from C to C sharp. I was like, this doesn't 385 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:52,240 look right, and I left it in there. I marked it for fixing 386 00:30:52,279 --> 00:30:55,720 it later. Yeah, it's a good that's a good comment. This doesn't 387 00:30:55,759 --> 00:31:00,720 look right. And then a bunch of code. It smells bad. Nothing 388 00:31:00,759 --> 00:31:03,279 as permanent as temporary code, of course. Yeah. Yeah, but I 389 00:31:03,319 --> 00:31:07,599 actually lifted in because it is a very well known book in all of the 390 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,480 doom Sour sports. And then you can either choose to fix it or you 391 00:31:12,519 --> 00:31:17,480 can choose to stay like a vanilla ports and keep it in right in, 392 00:31:17,559 --> 00:31:22,599 stick with the vintage. Yeah, that's the game that created the first BFGFG. 393 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:29,880 Yes, also the big fricking gun. Oh okay, Like that's which 394 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,519 is a meme, right, I mean so many games even and even movies 395 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,079 have a BFG of some kind. But you're talking about the gun at the 396 00:31:37,079 --> 00:31:41,559 bottom of the screen that in the first person. Yeah, it's right that 397 00:31:41,559 --> 00:31:45,480 you're that you're playing with. But also like the weapons in Doom were part 398 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,400 of the fun, like the chainsaw, that's some good fun, right, 399 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:53,680 the shotgun boys effective of course, the mini gun your rotary canon. But 400 00:31:53,799 --> 00:31:59,920 the BFG was kind of the end of game superpowered gun. But you only 401 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,680 had so much AMMO for it, Like you had to pick your moment when 402 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,240 you were going to use the BFG, just like in real life. And 403 00:32:05,279 --> 00:32:08,480 there's so many games meats the weapons fun. I don't know if you ever 404 00:32:08,559 --> 00:32:14,240 played the Redneck Rampage. I think you could shoot chickens or put a chicken 405 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:20,279 on your soutgun or something, but it was some Redneck rampage in the game. 406 00:32:20,319 --> 00:32:22,880 What are the first games where you could basically make your weapons like you 407 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,160 you pull them together or that would have been one of the zombie games. 408 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:32,680 But there's this sort of recognition that people love ridiculous weapons, make them from 409 00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:38,440 chickens, or yeah for fire using using chickens as the projectile. Oh yeah, 410 00:32:38,519 --> 00:32:45,160 yeah, yeah, that's the Plight term for something completely absurd, the 411 00:32:45,319 --> 00:32:52,960 bf CG. Here you go, the big freaking chicken gun. Anyway, 412 00:32:52,039 --> 00:32:57,480 the language was not as careful as we were being at the moment. Yeah, 413 00:32:57,519 --> 00:33:00,279 that's where all that came That's what maybe think of it. It's like 414 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,599 obscenity in Doom. Oh wait, that's where that came from. So, 415 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:12,319 um, did this inspire you to go on and do something else like port 416 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:17,799 port I don't know, graphics framework or a game framework that a bunch of 417 00:33:17,839 --> 00:33:22,799 other things. I mean what comes to mind for me is MAME multi arcade 418 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:29,799 machine emulator, which I just got sucked into big time and I still do. 419 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,960 But did it did it inspire? Are you going to stop at Doom? 420 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,359 I guess that's what I'm saying. Um, well, Doom is not 421 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:42,000 yet completely finished. I mean it's if I have to put a number on 422 00:33:42,039 --> 00:33:46,559 it, it's probably in a eighty percent state finished right now, right and 423 00:33:46,599 --> 00:33:50,720 I want to get near one hundred. I'm not sure if I'm gonna get 424 00:33:50,759 --> 00:33:54,480 to one hundred because I'm doubting if I want to do the networking stuff, 425 00:33:55,599 --> 00:34:00,799 dude. Multiplayer Yeah, I know, I know when that first came out 426 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,200 in Doom, like it was a huge crisis, like universities were banning it. 427 00:34:05,559 --> 00:34:07,680 I was a networking guy back then, and I got all kinds of 428 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,760 calls of like, how do I block Doom multiplayer? Do my actual multiplayer? 429 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,079 Yeah? I didn't know that you could play it even with a serial 430 00:34:15,119 --> 00:34:20,719 cable between two PCs. Yeah, nice, wow, because we I mean, 431 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,239 it's ninety three, like a lots of people don't have networking yet, 432 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:28,039 right, Like those are expensive features. But this, this was the This 433 00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:31,280 leads to duke Um three D, right, which really you talk about the 434 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:42,679 definitive first person multiplayer game for land parties, talking about strong language. Oh 435 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,440 yeah, it's time to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all 436 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:54,280 out of gum. To answer the question, I'm not sure yet if there's 437 00:34:54,519 --> 00:34:59,679 gone what the next thing is going to be, Because this idea really started 438 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:04,920 when I had a lot of free time in the summer so I could well, 439 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,440 you know, I spent most of my time at that point working from 440 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:13,000 home, right, which went I went from one week sitting at my desk 441 00:35:13,039 --> 00:35:19,719 in my place too having vacation, waking up, booting my PC and starting 442 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,559 to work on Doom. So summer is coming up again. I know a 443 00:35:23,639 --> 00:35:27,840 new project, but I'm not sure yet if I'm going to start on a 444 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:32,320 game engine, because I know someone else started working on a Maui game engine, 445 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,840 and then on the on the Mauie side of things, I got nerds 446 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:44,199 niped again. Oh no. So when we met in Sweden in February two 447 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:49,599 weeks later, Wessie and I were actually in Canada at Kung Fu and we 448 00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:52,079 were in the speaker room working on Doom and someone said, you know what 449 00:35:52,159 --> 00:35:57,320 would be fun if you could if you could control your Android version by just 450 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:02,360 walking around holding your phone right. Well, hey, accelerometer. Yeah, 451 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,840 so now we're trying to to do that. You have to have a big 452 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,800 room. Yeah well, I mean tip to walk forward side to side and 453 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:15,559 then press somewhere for firing, and then then make like a shooting motion to 454 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,079 fire. Together. There you go. You just have to be a clear 455 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:27,239 room. Not included, oh Man. Redneck Rampage was based on the Build 456 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,679 engine that they made Duke nukeab with, and the build Egite was a copy 457 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,000 of the Doom engine like these are all related. All these games we're talking 458 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,480 about, Rutneck Rampage. I always considered the Redneck version of Duke Nukam right 459 00:36:38,679 --> 00:36:43,800 because they looked so similar in graphics. Oh, it's there comes out a 460 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,199 year later, right, like it's they're all from the same origin and that 461 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:51,960 same style of game. And have you guys ever used Unity three D? 462 00:36:52,400 --> 00:37:00,639 I've played around with it. Yeah, yeah, not really into the I 463 00:37:00,679 --> 00:37:06,159 can't say that I've built something that I'm proud of with Unity. We did 464 00:37:06,199 --> 00:37:10,400 try to create a game once. Uh we want what engine did we use 465 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:15,119 again? Mona game? Mona game? Yeah game. Yeah, we tried 466 00:37:15,159 --> 00:37:21,480 to make a breakout game with that. Actually pretty far, its basically done. 467 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,159 We just needed to build X amount of levels and just publish it. 468 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,760 Yeah, but all the fun stuff was done, So we move down two 469 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,559 different projects. Yeah, I know, right, well, and the bar 470 00:37:30,679 --> 00:37:34,719 so high for Unity. You look at some of the Unity games that are 471 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,719 out there, like they're amazing. Hartstone is a Unity It's a tough company 472 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,559 to hang out in. It's a long way from two point five D. 473 00:37:42,079 --> 00:37:45,360 Yeah, and it's not a free tool. I mean Wizards. Hartstone is 474 00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:50,920 built with Unity and it's not a free tool either, Nope, yeah, 475 00:37:51,079 --> 00:37:53,159 no, but lots of great graphic glasses and things like. You've got a 476 00:37:53,199 --> 00:37:58,719 lot to work with if you go down that path. Yeah, it's it's 477 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,079 not free, but they have a lot of free assets that can get you 478 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:07,320 going already to build something pretty nice. But then again, you can say 479 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,960 the same about Unreal Engine. Yeah, but in Unity you can use C 480 00:38:10,119 --> 00:38:15,880 sharp, that's true, right, or that other language, the one we 481 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:22,280 don't talk about, the one that the j language that shall not be named, 482 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:28,239 Oh no, Joeld the mark. But you know, it's so much 483 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,280 game development is just done. And see it's nice to be, you know, 484 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,800 working in in c sharp like it just that's the language, you know, 485 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:40,480 and and it's safer. Like you think debugging business appses are tried debugging 486 00:38:40,519 --> 00:38:49,199 games? Try debugging memory leads? Yeah. Yeah. At some point while 487 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:55,880 porting the game, I had the level loaded and the graphics looked almost perfect, 488 00:38:57,639 --> 00:39:01,239 and then you started try to start moving, so you press forwards and 489 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:07,679 you're shut into the wall like light speed ahead. I was like, uh, 490 00:39:09,159 --> 00:39:14,360 I'm not sure what's happening right now, and I'm not sure how I'm 491 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,960 going to find out what's going wrong. So yeah, that's like an experience 492 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:27,239 I had in the seventies. Nice you mean when you were five. But 493 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,119 you're you're exactly right. It's like, you know, this is not forms 494 00:39:30,159 --> 00:39:35,280 over data, right, there's no consistent UI here. This is you're trying 495 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:42,400 to create an illusion of three dimensional motion. So uh, And and the 496 00:39:42,519 --> 00:39:46,079 idea that you have impacts or there are surfaces that they're projectiles, that that 497 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:51,880 you have things that move. That makes sense that you can discern an enemy 498 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,320 from the wall, and then it follows some kinds of rules of physics, 499 00:39:55,400 --> 00:40:00,679 like there's a lot of pieces that have to work right to not toss you 500 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:05,360 out of the illusion that is a game. At least collision detection work because 501 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:10,679 the wall did stop me. Did you get the damage for slumming into the 502 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:15,360 wall? No? Did it make a sound like it does? Make it 503 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:21,719 sound like whatever doom guy hits the wall, he does like he makes a 504 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,679 little grunt. So that worked. Did the collision detective work that they played 505 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:30,639 the sound? Yeah, these are all the things we forget about the fact 506 00:40:30,679 --> 00:40:34,239 that you got to write the code it says on a collision, you know, 507 00:40:34,559 --> 00:40:38,599 account for damage, create that visualization, and play that that sound like 508 00:40:39,119 --> 00:40:44,320 and then it all has to be timely or it does the metaphor doesn't work 509 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:51,440 either. Hit the wall, pause, It's right. It's a lot of 510 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:57,679 moving pieces that have to work together. And then that in the doom game 511 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,920 you see that as as the doom loop. So what typically happen happens in 512 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:07,559 every game is um, you look at the input from the player, you 513 00:41:07,679 --> 00:41:15,559 process that input, you process everything else like monsters or the monsters get their 514 00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:20,599 turn to move, get their turn to shoot, you move the projectiles like 515 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,639 ye, and then you update the sounds, you draw the world, and 516 00:41:23,679 --> 00:41:28,920 then you start over again. Yeah, that's one of the hardest things I 517 00:41:29,039 --> 00:41:34,719 found to grasp as an application developer. Where you working in an event based 518 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:39,039 world, your application is is waiting for your user to interact. If you're 519 00:41:39,039 --> 00:41:44,239 building a game, then your world is alive. There's stuff happening even if 520 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,239 you're not interacting with it. Yep. Just because the players AFK doesn't mean 521 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:52,280 the world's AFK exactly. I think you mentioned this, but does it did 522 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:59,519 it try the frames at a timer or did it rely on the timing of 523 00:41:59,519 --> 00:42:06,079 the CP you, um, it uses some form of timing to uh pace 524 00:42:06,159 --> 00:42:14,000 itself because otherwise a game from nineteen ninety three would yeah slam you into the 525 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:19,360 wall. Oh yeah, that was noted. You know, I'm old enough 526 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,679 to remember when we're all our computers were one Mega Hurts. We only had 527 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:28,199 the one Megaherts sixty five O two and then a three Mega Hurts sixty five 528 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,639 two came out and all games were unplayable because they were three times faster now 529 00:42:31,639 --> 00:42:36,880 and the original XT clones had a turbo mode switch which could turn which would 530 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,960 turn it into eight Mega Hurts from four point seven seven four point seven seven 531 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:45,360 to eight, so four point seven seven for games and then eight for everything 532 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:51,159 else to three. Yeah, turbo switch. It took me years to figure 533 00:42:51,199 --> 00:42:55,639 out why you should why one would switch the turbo off, right, because 534 00:42:55,679 --> 00:43:00,039 I've never had a PC with the turbo button, but I've heard of it. 535 00:43:00,599 --> 00:43:04,599 Was wondering why would you on purpose slow down your computer? Now, 536 00:43:04,639 --> 00:43:07,480 we thought it was a feature because we get to speed it up. Yeah, 537 00:43:07,559 --> 00:43:13,199 yeah, you think you're good play this fast? Yeah, I just 538 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,440 remember, I know this is welcome to four old guys. Try to talk. 539 00:43:16,079 --> 00:43:22,679 Um. I remember when I got my first twelve hundred BOD modem and 540 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:27,039 I was really mad because I couldn't read the text as it came across the 541 00:43:27,079 --> 00:43:32,320 modem like I could with my three hundred BOD modem. I could actually read 542 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:37,320 it as it was drawing on the screen. And then with the twenty four 543 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,000 modem, Holy crap, the whole screen just appears at once. Yeah, 544 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,719 blessing and a curse. Oh well, I guess the moral of the story 545 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,000 is, don't get used to your tech. You know it's going to change. 546 00:43:49,519 --> 00:43:52,159 Yeah, well, in that certainty about how we time things like how 547 00:43:52,559 --> 00:43:57,639 how fast should that loop run? What's the what is the heartbeat of it? 548 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,360 Yeah? Yeah, and you know JavaScript floating point works and C sharp 549 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:08,119 weird? Yeah yeah. Should it just be number? Now that with Doud 550 00:44:08,159 --> 00:44:14,480 Crockford told us should just be number? Oh in JavaScript? Yeah? Everything? 551 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:19,800 Yeah? Why do we have to discern different types of numbers? All 552 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,519 right, guys, anything else that you want to share, divulge or admit 553 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:30,920 before we hang up? No? No, really? Okay? Are you 554 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:36,199 looking for contributors? Wesley is there to try and get this thing finished? 555 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,599 I think so? Yeah. Yeah, I mean well especially on the on 556 00:44:39,639 --> 00:44:44,039 the Android level as well, because we got sound working on Android, but 557 00:44:44,199 --> 00:44:50,079 music is not working yet. There Okay. It's again interesting because Wesley got 558 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:57,440 the media files working in the WPF version through an external yellow and when we 559 00:44:57,559 --> 00:45:02,000 loaded that yellow into MAUI and run it on when Ui we had sounds, 560 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,840 we had, we had music. Well on androids we don't, so we 561 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,000 still need to fix that, right, okay, so kind of find those 562 00:45:09,079 --> 00:45:13,519 kinds of mappings for each of these platforms. Have you even have you tried 563 00:45:13,519 --> 00:45:19,639 it on iOS? Um? I've had it run on iOS once, but 564 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:24,280 I don't live that much access to iOS devices, right, that's the internal 565 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:30,119 problem that you need a mach to build for a mach. Yeah, yeah, 566 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:34,400 you can run to your own Windows on your iOS device. You can 567 00:45:34,519 --> 00:45:38,800 use Cloud for a mac. Yeah, all right. Well anyway, hey, 568 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,719 we'll see you in May and at tech Aroma, and we put all 569 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,960 the links to all the things that we're talking about on dot and rocks dot 570 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:51,400 com, so go there and check it out. Everybody. Thanks you guys, 571 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,320 thank you. Yeah, it's nice talking to you. Yes, you 572 00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:59,119 two, And we'll talk to you, dear listener next time. I'm dot 573 00:45:59,159 --> 00:46:23,880 net rocks. Dot net Rocks is brought to you by Franklin's Net and produced 574 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:30,519 by Pop Studios, a full service audio, video and post production facility located 575 00:46:30,559 --> 00:46:35,159 physically in New London, Connecticut, and of course in the cloud online at 576 00:46:35,199 --> 00:46:40,760 pwop dot com. Visit our website at dt n et r ocks dot com 577 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:45,639 for RSS feeds, downloads, mobile apps, comments, and access to the 578 00:46:45,679 --> 00:46:51,360 full archives going back to show number one, recorded in September two thousand and 579 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,800 two. And make sure you check out our sponsors. They keep us in 580 00:46:53,840 --> 00:47:02,119 business. Now, go write some code sext time. The band do a 581 00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:08,960 summer times hard than my text ready