WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.280 --> 00:00:04.759 When you wake up in the morning, you have to tell yourself that I 2 00:00:04.839 --> 00:00:13.519 have to attach myself to the biggest business issue facing my customers. You're listening 3 00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:17.800 to the audible Ready podcast, The show that helps you and your teams sell 4 00:00:17.879 --> 00:00:22.160 more Faster. Will feature sales leaders sharing their best insights on how to create 5 00:00:22.199 --> 00:00:26.559 a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth, presented by the team 6 00:00:26.559 --> 00:00:30.640 at Force Management, a leader in B to B sales effectiveness. Let's get 7 00:00:30.679 --> 00:00:36.479 started. Hello and welcome to the Audible Ready Sales Podcast. I'm Rachel Klepmullard. 8 00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:40.399 John Kaplan joins me today. Hi John, Hey Rachel, how you 9 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:45.799 doing good? Good? I'm excited for this topic today because we're going to 10 00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:51.200 be talking about asking great questions. And I'm just realizing that I am recording 11 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:56.359 a podcast about questions when I'm going to ask questions. So there's a lot 12 00:00:56.399 --> 00:01:02.520 of pressure here to ask great questions in this compresiction. But when we think 13 00:01:02.560 --> 00:01:10.719 about the sales process, questions are critical and the key to asking great questions 14 00:01:10.760 --> 00:01:15.519 having great discovery is to make sure that your questions are natural aligned to where 15 00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:19.280 you are in the sales process. In the current situation you're in with your 16 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:26.120 customer, and of course that you're listening to the answers. Discovery such a 17 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:30.359 critical point in the sales process in an area where you can really differentiate yourself 18 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:34.719 as a salesperson. Yeah, Rach, that's so well said. I think, 19 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:38.400 you know, especially now, how you sell can be just as important 20 00:01:38.439 --> 00:01:42.239 as what you sell. And I think, like you said, you know, 21 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:46.000 discovery is the most important part of the sales process, and if you 22 00:01:46.040 --> 00:01:49.319 screw that up, you're going to have a real, real difficult time getting 23 00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:53.959 a good deal. Yeah. And so we talk a lot about preparation because 24 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:57.799 that's the key to every conversation, no matter where you are in the customer 25 00:01:57.799 --> 00:02:01.319 engagement process. But let's talk a little bit, John about how you go 26 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:07.479 about preparing for your discovery by getting into the questions that you're going to ask. 27 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:12.120 Yeah, you know, right. So, I'm a big believer. 28 00:02:12.199 --> 00:02:15.680 You've heard me say this a number of times that I don't believe in cold 29 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:20.520 calls at all. I believe that every call can be warm. And let 30 00:02:20.599 --> 00:02:22.960 me just give you an example. I call it the bullseye, And in 31 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:28.280 the bullseye, on the outer ring, I write the word industry and then 32 00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:30.479 the inner one inner ring, from that one more ring. Inside of that, 33 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:35.919 I write the word company, and then I write the ring getting close 34 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:39.199 to the bullseye, I write the ring department, and then I write in 35 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:45.039 the ring personal. So what I mean by that is we should prepare and 36 00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:47.800 find out what do we know about what's going on in the industry. Based 37 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:52.639 upon what's going on in the industry, how is that impacting the company? 38 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:58.199 Based on how that's impacting the company, how is that impacting the department that 39 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:01.680 I'm calling on, and how that ultimately impacted the individuals, the men and 40 00:03:01.719 --> 00:03:06.879 women who I interact with, and Rachel, they get it all screwed up. 41 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:09.000 Most people try to go for the middle of the bullseye. First, 42 00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:14.400 I'm personal, and they haven't earned the right. So you know, the 43 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:17.520 next thing is, I think you have to be prepared with an agenda. 44 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:21.479 So if you're okay with it, Rachel, can I just rattle off, 45 00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:23.960 you know, some questions and stuff and then you can kind of get me 46 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:28.800 give it to go okay. So when I think about an agenda, I 47 00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:32.039 always think about asking the question in an agenda, in an email, in 48 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:37.000 a in a voicemail, whatever, just to giving the person the heads up 49 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:40.080 and it says, first question is what does a great outcome look like for 50 00:03:40.120 --> 00:03:44.560 you? And I think that's just a great question to begin with for an 51 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:50.840 agenda, because you're really giving that person the understanding that you're trying to make 52 00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:53.879 it all about them first. And then I say, I'm going to ask 53 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:57.080 you some questions. I'll probably ask you what you like most about your current 54 00:03:57.120 --> 00:04:00.840 situation, and then I'm probably gonna ask you some questions about what you like 55 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:04.280 least about your current situation, and then we'll go into more detail. Is 56 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:10.400 there anything that you would like to cover? And I always lead that open. 57 00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:13.080 I don't send an agenda that says this is how we're going to do 58 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:16.279 it. I send these are my suggestions, what would you like to accomplish? 59 00:04:16.519 --> 00:04:18.639 So I think that's a real, real good way of doing it. 60 00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:24.720 And then I prepare my questions Rachel, and the questions are things like, 61 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:28.759 can you give me an example of how when they give me a feedback on 62 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:30.600 and I start off again, say, hey, we talked to I said 63 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:33.639 I was going to talk to about your current situation, what you like most 64 00:04:33.639 --> 00:04:36.040 about it and what you like least about it. When I get to the 65 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:40.199 part where you're like least about it. Can you give me an example of 66 00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:44.399 how that manifests itself in your company? When was the last time that that 67 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:47.319 happened. What was the impact on the company, What was the impact on 68 00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:51.480 the department, What was the impact on you and your team? What feedback 69 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:55.920 did you get from the line of business or from the customer, etc. 70 00:04:57.079 --> 00:05:00.279 What are you doing right now to make sure that that doesn't happen, Gab 71 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:03.560 And if they look at you or they say to you, Rachel, nothing 72 00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:09.319 like you've opened the door. They've sat in their moment of pain by answering 73 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:13.079 these questions and then they're not doing anything about it. It actually creates kind 74 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:16.959 of it creates kind of some urgency without even you creating it. You're just 75 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:20.240 asking the questions. And to your point, John, going back to your 76 00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:24.920 agenda. When you send the agenda, you're sort of setting the tone for 77 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:28.079 the conversations. You may drip a few out, like I really want to 78 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:30.199 make sure we align on outcomes. What do you want to get out of 79 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:34.519 this conversation? And then over on the side, while you're waiting for the 80 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:41.920 call, you're working these questions that help get you to some critical components of 81 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:46.959 an opportunity that you're going to need if you're going to move the opper tunity 82 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:49.319 forward. And I know we talk a lot about setting the tone for the 83 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:55.399 call in advance, and that always involves sending an agenda. Talk a little 84 00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:59.279 bit about why that's so important and what it does for you when you get 85 00:05:59.279 --> 00:06:02.000 on that conversation. Yeah, I think it's an important topic and I think 86 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:04.879 people are really missing the boat on this. Let you know, for me, 87 00:06:05.720 --> 00:06:09.600 I don't want to ever blindside a customer. And I'm going to share 88 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:12.720 a little story with you, Rachel. It's one of the most painful stories 89 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:16.199 of my young sales career back in the day. But when I was it's 90 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:20.240 actually when I was a manager. So I was a manager at Xerox and 91 00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:25.519 I was trying to get into the chief marketing officer one of the largest furniture 92 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:29.879 manufacturing companies in the world in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And if you know 93 00:06:29.959 --> 00:06:31.759 that area, you can figure it out. It's probably one of two companies. 94 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:36.680 So my number one competitor was entrenched in there and they were they had 95 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:42.519 two large print shops on site, and both managers were very, very loyal 96 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:46.079 to the competition, so I'd go, you know, try to make calls 97 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:47.319 on those people, and they gave me the stiff arm all the time, 98 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:49.920 and I said, you know what, I'm going to go high. I 99 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:53.399 don't have anything to lose. I'm going to go high. And I did 100 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:56.800 a great job. I thought I did a great job and got a meeting 101 00:06:56.839 --> 00:07:01.600 with the CMO. But since I was not purposeful with my contact and I 102 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:06.519 didn't send an agenda, he had no idea what the meeting was about on 103 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:10.839 the day of the meeting. So what did he do? What do you 104 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:14.079 think he did? He invited those two birds. I'm going to call those 105 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:15.959 two birds. I'm gonna call them enemy number one and Enemy number two. 106 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:18.959 That's not their names, and that's not how I referred to them, but 107 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:23.240 that just will kind of set the stage. And so he invited them to 108 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:27.519 the meeting. And you should have seen the expression on my face when I 109 00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:30.879 walked into the boardroom. And you can imagine what a boardroom is. That 110 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:33.879 like a furniture manufacturer, like an office furniture manufacturer. Jacked out, like 111 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:40.000 it is like the matter. It's like the mecca of where you'd want to 112 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:43.279 be having a sales call. So anyways, he invited these two birds in 113 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:46.839 the room. And I walk into the boardroom and I see these birds sitting 114 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:51.000 there and they had their grinning like cheshire cats. Rachel, they just have 115 00:07:51.079 --> 00:07:54.800 a huge smile on my face because they knew I didn't think they would be 116 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:58.959 there. And so what I did was I tried to gather myself. And 117 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:01.839 since I didn't send an agenda, you know, he went to the two 118 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:05.480 managers and probably said, hey, what's this meeting about. Why don't you 119 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:07.639 guys join? Is of course what's going to happen. And I know if 120 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:11.639 you're listening to me, I know that this has happened to you. And 121 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:15.720 so you know, enemy number one and enemy number two show up in the 122 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:18.720 meeting. And I got to tell you when I walked in, Rachel, 123 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:22.199 they almost started laughing, and I was like, oh, it's under pressure. 124 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:26.959 I started to sweat so like a prize fighter. I was a little 125 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:30.160 bit staggered by it, but I wasn't out yet, and I went to 126 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:35.759 my prepared list of questions and I went for the gusto and I said something 127 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:41.679 like, mister CMO, would you please tell me which documents in your organization 128 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:46.320 are so mission critical for you that if they weren't done with the proper information, 129 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:50.039 and they weren't done on time, it would actually bring your organization to 130 00:08:50.120 --> 00:08:54.240 its knees. And I got to tell you, like, that's what we 131 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:58.440 did. We did on demand printing better than anybody else on the planet. 132 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:01.799 You can make changes late, just do it on demand. And then these 133 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:03.879 print shops they couldn't do that. They had to set up the printing press. 134 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:07.480 It just wasn't easy. So the digital works on us. I felt 135 00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:11.039 so good about that question, Rachel. It felt like as it left my 136 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:16.279 hand, I like grooved a fastball right down the middle, except there was 137 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:22.120 one low problem. This was not a fastball that the CMO was expecting, 138 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:26.519 and his eyes kind of looked confused, and like he looked confused until the 139 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:31.200 pitch like actually, you know, hit him like in the middle of the 140 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:33.399 back, like I beamed him with the pitch, like to keep the baseball 141 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:41.639 analogy. And when I looked, I immediately regretted asking that question because I 142 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:45.080 could tell he was not prepared. And you know, it was funny because 143 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:48.679 even Enemy number one and number two I could tell they thought that was a 144 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:52.360 pretty good question, and they turned to the CMO, which made it worse 145 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:56.120 because then the cmos like, oh my god, I probably should know this, 146 00:09:56.240 --> 00:10:00.200 but I don't know it. And he was a little embarrassed, but 147 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:05.320 not too long the embarrassment turned to anger, and the CMO gathered himself and 148 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:09.399 this is so typical. He looked me straight in the eye, Rachel, 149 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:13.159 and he said, mister Caplin, I thought we were going to speak about 150 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:18.360 copiers. What does that question have to do with me? And I immediately 151 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:20.960 remembered the mantra, Rachel, of you get delegated to those that you sound 152 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:24.879 like, and I sound like Enemy number one and enemy number two. So 153 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:30.519 the CMO said, so enemy number one and Enemy number two, you guys 154 00:10:30.559 --> 00:10:33.960 could probably answer the rest of mister Caplin's questions. I have another meeting, 155 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:37.559 and he actually got up and left the room. Rachel. He got up 156 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:39.039 and left the room, and he didn't even shake my hand. So, 157 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:43.679 oh, it was brutal. I'm like sick to my stomach. And I 158 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:48.240 watch him as he leaves the room and the door kind of like closes behind 159 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:52.000 him. I could feel Enemy number one and Enemy number two were staring at 160 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:54.879 me, and when I look back over at their gaze. I like followed 161 00:10:54.919 --> 00:11:01.039 their gaze like and they had even bigger cheshire cat smiles on their Rachel, 162 00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:05.200 is a true story. I literally just closed my notebook. I got up 163 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:09.559 and I left the boardroom, and I didn't say anything to them. So 164 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:11.519 I had my tail between my legs and you should have seen me. I 165 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:15.519 like couldn't get to that elevator fast enough. You know how you hit the 166 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:18.679 elevator button like multiple times. Dying in the lobby, I wanted to get 167 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:22.399 out of there. It's funny because, like, Rachel, do you remember 168 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:26.039 the movie with Tom Cruise, the one it was called let me think about 169 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:28.759 what. Oh, it's called Risky Business. Do you remember that right? 170 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:33.399 Sure? Remember when he was interviewing for the Princeton to go to Princeton and 171 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:37.159 he totally bombed the interview. Yeah, Afterwards he kind of lift up his 172 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:41.279 sunglasses. He said, well, it looks like the University of Illinois. 173 00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:46.399 That's exactly how I felt. And forever more, Rachel, sorry for the 174 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:50.679 long story, but forever more, I have always sent an agenda. I 175 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:54.240 don't want to catch people blindsided. That's such a good story. To illustrate 176 00:11:54.519 --> 00:12:00.559 the importance of it, I can feel the awkwardness as you want. And 177 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:05.399 I'm sure many of people listening have been in similar situations. So it's a 178 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:09.799 good anecdote to remind us to send an agenda and kind of set the tone 179 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:16.399 for the conversation. And you give us some great questions for those opening conversations 180 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:22.639 that allow you to really start to set the tone for digging deep on business 181 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:26.759 pain. But they also are i don't want to say soft, or they're 182 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:31.200 disarming enough that they're not going to get you in trouble or not expose somebody 183 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:35.240 in the room that's not ready to be exposed. And during the call, 184 00:12:35.559 --> 00:12:39.279 you know you always say it's a slow dance right with your customer of like 185 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:43.519 getting them to open up, give you information. And once you have the 186 00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:46.679 basic information, once you have aligned on the answers to some of those questions 187 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:52.840 that you spoke about, like impact, what happens if this doesn't work, 188 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:58.120 you want to make sure that you are also asking questions that give you the 189 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:03.480 information that allow you to line your differentiation to the buyer, because that's what 190 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:07.759 really is going to obviously set you apart from other competitors or other options. 191 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:13.039 So talk a little bit about that slow dance and how you set up questions 192 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:18.639 so you're able to break get your differentiation on the table. That's such a 193 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:20.600 great setup. So we talked a little bit about opening the call. So 194 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:24.200 I kind of think about it as like kind of three part. It's kind 195 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.120 of like opening the call, and then there's during the call. So now 196 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:31.320 we're talking about during the call. When you wake up in the morning. 197 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:33.679 If you're listening to this and you're a seller, when you wake up in 198 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:37.559 the morning, you have to tell yourself that I have to attach myself to 199 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:43.639 the biggest business issue facing my customers. I also have to get my differentiation 200 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:48.559 influenced into the decision criteria so the decision criteria is more favorable for me. 201 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:52.759 So I want you to write those two things down. I have to attach 202 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:56.080 to the biggest business issue and I have to influence the decision criteria with my 203 00:13:56.200 --> 00:14:01.879 differentiation. Those are two things you have to do during every sales call. 204 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:05.360 So let's talk a little bit about that. I call those trap setting questions, 205 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:11.039 and it's not trapping the customer, it's trapping the competition. And you're 206 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:16.039 trapping the competition around your differentiation. So let's break it down even further. 207 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:18.679 First, I want you to think about a differentiator, and you know, 208 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:22.639 let's just think about like force management for a second. Let's just kind of 209 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:24.879 give like a common denominator. So Force Management, one of the things that 210 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:31.559 we have is like every single person that shows up in front of a facilitator, 211 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:37.360 that shows up in front of our customers is a former VP of sales. 212 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:41.000 So they are so relevant, they are so understanding of what's going on 213 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:46.879 in the position. Most of them have come from technology backgrounds for most of 214 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:50.919 our technology customers. So it's okay, so let's think about that. Well, 215 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:52.879 how do I get that influence in the decision criteria? You know? 216 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:56.159 The first thing I do, Rachel is I look at the differentiator and I 217 00:14:56.200 --> 00:15:03.879 ask myself a big fat so what So what if Force Management's facilitators are extremely 218 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:07.639 relevant with technology backgrounds and former vps of sales? I asked myself that, 219 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:13.600 and I say, well, what bad things could happen if that wasn't the 220 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:16.440 case. You could have somebody standing up in front of their people that was 221 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:20.960 completely irrelevant and was telling stories that were irrelevant. I can feel it right 222 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:24.919 now. I know what happens every single day. So what I'm going to 223 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:26.720 try is I'm going to try to think about a question. Can you give 224 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:31.120 me an example of where you worked with someone in our industry and they presented 225 00:15:31.159 --> 00:15:37.200 people to you that just were not relevant for your company or the stories they 226 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:39.519 were telling. They just really didn't look like that they were kind of in 227 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:43.320 sync with your company. People's eyes light up, and everybody's got a story 228 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:48.919 like that. Every single one of you listening to me has seen people address 229 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:50.919 your company before. It doesn't matter if it's training, if they're selling or 230 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:56.720 whatever, but they're just not relevant. And for me, so I say, 231 00:15:56.799 --> 00:16:00.120 so what and then says who and says who is nothing more? I'm 232 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:03.799 a proof point for the differentiator. So I got all kinds of proof points 233 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:07.360 in our industry of people that will say, when force management puts somebody in 234 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:11.759 front of us, they like know our business as much as we do. 235 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:15.840 And it's really really powerful. All right, Rachel, the crux move. 236 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:18.200 Are you ready? I'm ready. Let's go. All right. So then 237 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:23.080 you just ask questions about the bad things that happen when they didn't have the 238 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:29.159 kind of the impact of that differentiation, and you're always looking for negative consequences 239 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:34.240 and you're always going deeper and deeper and deeper. So in my early days 240 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:38.360 at Force management, people kind of remember me by using these terms. Like 241 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:42.519 they've heard me say, you drag the customer through the glass, you rip 242 00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:47.039 their face off, you know, you make them put on the code of 243 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:49.759 pain. And you know, I've meled a little bit. I'm sixty now 244 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:56.080 and I've met a little bit. And my kinder jetler side tells me to 245 00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:59.120 you know, what we're really trying to do. I mean, I just 246 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:02.799 do that kind of get people emotional about it and have some fun. But 247 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:07.079 really what you're doing is you want to help the customer stand in the moment 248 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:12.039 of their pain with real examples, with real consequences. So the more you 249 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:17.160 tell them they have a problem, they're going to resist you. But the 250 00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:21.519 more you ask them a question that makes them stand in their moment of pain, 251 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:26.759 they will actually create their own urgency and they'll convince themselves that they need 252 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:30.200 to fix it. It's that simple, Rachel. There's an old saying that 253 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:36.160 says people rarely argue with their own conclusions, and if you can get the 254 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:40.680 customer to come to their own conclusion, you're all set. This is what 255 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:45.240 I'm doing during the call. This is the majority of what I'm doing during 256 00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:48.079 the call, the actual call. I love it all right. So we 257 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:52.480 went through some questions you can ask when you're opening up the conversation getting the 258 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:59.480 conversation going. Great tips here for aligning the conversation so you can get that 259 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:03.759 differentiation up on the table. I want to bring up another area that you 260 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:08.599 want to be validating with your question process, and that's the decision process. 261 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:14.720 I just wrote a couple of pieces for a sender on paying attention to this 262 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:18.880 because I think reps might kind of toss it to the side a little bit 263 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:23.240 because it's not as big as like the economic buyer or the champion. You're 264 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:26.279 like, oh, I know the decision process. So and so is going 265 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:27.279 to finance and then they're going to sign the deal. But a lot of 266 00:18:27.319 --> 00:18:32.799 times it's much more nuanced than that, and getting the right information can really 267 00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:37.039 set yourself up for success prevent the stalled deals. Knowing those key components about 268 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:42.119 the decision process can also point you to those important stakeholders in the conversation, 269 00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:47.160 some of whom you may not have considered. So I got to tell you. 270 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:52.119 Let me rephrase what I said during the call you wake up in the 271 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:55.400 morning, because you just added an incredible point here, and I'm sorry I 272 00:18:55.400 --> 00:18:57.799 missed it. When you wake up in the morning, you're doing three things, 273 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:02.880 Rachel. You are first saying, how do I attach myself to the 274 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:07.240 biggest business issue facing the customer? How do I influence the decision criteria with 275 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:11.440 my differentiation? And now, as so eloquently pointed out by you, I 276 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:17.279 am also qualifying. I'm voraciously qualifying, and one of the things I'm qualifying 277 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:21.400 for sure is the decision process. So let's talk about some of those questions. 278 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:23.720 They're real simple. Hey, walk me through the last time you made 279 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:29.599 a purchase like this, who was involved, who had the final sign off? 280 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:33.759 How much does that person know about what you're doing right now here, 281 00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:37.960 How do you plan on bringing them up to speed? What help do you 282 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:41.480 need from your partner? Parenthesies me to do that? How do you put 283 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:47.200 together your justification? What does it take to get approval? Walk me through 284 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:52.359 the specific steps. What would you do differently this time around in getting something 285 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:55.359 approved? So I want you to think about the last thing that you got 286 00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:57.920 approved or the last thing you went through the process on. What did you 287 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:02.440 like about that process us and what are some things you'd definitely like to do 288 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:07.559 differently. These questions are so benign, Rachel, They are so non threatening, 289 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:11.279 but the answers to these questions are just just a pot of gold. 290 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:17.519 That's great. I think this has been a really meaty podcast. And John, 291 00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:19.640 I know that when we started, I said I want to do a 292 00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:22.839 podcast about questions. And there's like a hundred different ways that we can take 293 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:26.000 this. But I love what we did here today and I think I hope 294 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:30.359 those of you listening were able to write some of these down, or you 295 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:33.799 can go back and take notes as you listen to John's question. But I 296 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:37.680 don't want to talk about discovery, Rachel. Can we have started interrupted? 297 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:41.920 Can we just can we just take those questions and put them in the show 298 00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:45.240 notes? Yeah, I'll make a link somehow. It might be if I 299 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:47.240 put them all in the show notes, it might be a little bit long, 300 00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:51.960 but the expert man, let's just give them a let's point them somewhere 301 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.359 where they can see the question. Yes, awesome. So I don't want 302 00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:00.319 to go through all this, John and not talk about wrapping up a conversation, 303 00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:03.839 even if you've had great questions. You want to make sure that you've 304 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:08.559 captured the right information, that what you heard is what the customer felt like 305 00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:12.200 they said, and you want to make sure you have a great next step. 306 00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:18.480 Yeah, you know so critical. So we talked about preparing an agenda, 307 00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:21.519 we talked about opening a call, we talked about during the call. 308 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:25.599 Now let's talk about it as we're closing the call. I call it the 309 00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:30.799 seller deficit disorder. Customers do not believe that sellers understand their business, and 310 00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:34.079 they don't believe that we listen very well. So I want to give you 311 00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:38.960 a little tip what you're doing when you're gathering your answers. You're really kind 312 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.079 of building up three categories. In my opinion. The first thing I'm trying 313 00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:47.640 to understand is the positive business outcomes they're trying to achieve. I call those 314 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:52.200 PBOs. The next thing we're trying to do is we're trying to understand and 315 00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:57.039 influence the required capabilities or the decision criteria, and we're trying to influence those 316 00:21:57.079 --> 00:22:04.599 with our differentiation. So I like to summarize, and if I can't summarize, 317 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:08.200 I'm not ready to sell them anything. So the summary goes something like 318 00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:12.599 this, Rachel. It says, Hey, during our conversation today, we 319 00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:17.599 talked about these positive business outcomes that you're trying to achieve, and in your 320 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:19.200 mind you're like, oh, oh no, we didn't, or yeah we 321 00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:22.759 did, and if we didn't, then just ask a question. I typically 322 00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:26.680 at this point understand the business outcomes that you're trying to achieve, and I 323 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:30.519 don't think we talked very much about those. Would you mind if I asked 324 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:33.440 you a few more questions about those? All right, bo, let's go 325 00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:36.440 back. Okay, so we have the positive business outcomes and then you said, 326 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:41.160 what was technically required is the following And it's real simple once you list 327 00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:45.240 that and you look at that list, and if it's not favorable for you, 328 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:47.880 you got more work to do. Would you mind if I kind of 329 00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:52.599 elaborated on some of this criteria and I start to influence my decision criteria right 330 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.119 there? This is assuming you didn't get it done during the call. And 331 00:22:56.200 --> 00:23:00.839 then very important, I want to understand how you're going to measure success. 332 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.319 So many people miss this, Rachel, because if they don't understand how they 333 00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:07.599 measure success, they're never going to have a proof point. Today's metrics is 334 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:11.440 tomorrow's proof point, and we have to have proof points. And you can't 335 00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.359 leave the door open for the customer later on to say, yeah, I 336 00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:18.559 mean, you guys are good, but you're not like that good. You 337 00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:21.880 can't do that when you have metrics and you say, hey, we signed 338 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:23.720 up to do these things. We said we're going to measure it this way. 339 00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:26.839 So Rachel, my point is, I want you to think of these 340 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:30.839 things. It's like buckets of information, and through our discovery, we're filling 341 00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:34.799 up those buckets of information. At the end of the call, we're saying 342 00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:38.559 to the customer, let me recap what we talked about. Number one, 343 00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:44.559 it proves that you listened. Number two, you're starting off with positive business 344 00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:48.799 outcomes, so you definitely understand their business. So in that summary alone, 345 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:53.039 you wiped out the seller deficit disorder. Then what I always like to do, 346 00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:56.480 Rachel, is I like to ask, hey, before we go, 347 00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:00.000 and this is really important. I really love it. Just I've gotten great 348 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:03.599 feedback on it. Before we go, what did you like most about we 349 00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:08.240 talked about today? The next thing I ask is what caused you pause in 350 00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:14.880 our meeting? Oh, that's good. People always bring an objection without fail 351 00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:18.440 they'll say, well, here's a the common one. Well, John, 352 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:22.559 we didn't really talk about how much this stuff costs, so whatever, whatever 353 00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:26.799 the objection is on their mind, it just comes out so naturally from the 354 00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:30.240 way you positioned it. And then the last thing I say, is is 355 00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:33.319 there anything that we didn't talk about today that you would have expected me to 356 00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:40.079 talk about? And those three final questions are so powerful. It proves that 357 00:24:40.119 --> 00:24:45.880 you're a professional, and it proves that you are really interested in what their 358 00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:48.759 feedback is, so really really powerful way to edd it. That's great, 359 00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:52.960 some great things for us to think about in our sales conversations this week. 360 00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:57.640 Be sure to check out the show notes for more information or a list for 361 00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:00.759 you to take with you. You give us a good bottom line to help 362 00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:03.799 wrap this up, John, I love these, so here's my bottom line. 363 00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:08.079 Discovery is the most important part of the sales process bar none. You 364 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:14.079 have to be prepared, send an agenda, set traps for the competition which 365 00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:18.000 will help you influence the decision crightter are, be a voracious qualifier, make 366 00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:26.519 sure you understand decision process and close well, close well with intention and follow 367 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:30.240 up action items. Go get them go, get them go get them close. 368 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:33.319 Well, thank you, John, welcome, all right, thank you 369 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:37.480 to all of you for listening to the Audible Ready Sales Podcast. At Force 370 00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:44.640 Management, we're focused on transforming sales organizations into elite teams. Our proven methodologies 371 00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:49.680 deliver programs that build company alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give your teams 372 00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:55.200 the ability to execute the growth strategy at the point of sale. Our strength 373 00:25:55.319 --> 00:26:00.319 is our experience. The proof is in our results. Let's get started us 374 00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:04.039 at forest management dot com. You've been listening to the Audible Ready podcast. 375 00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:08.319 To not miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. 376 00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:10.359 Until next time.