What is krak Alac and fellow thermonuclear a efforts. I am dam Fa Valley
coming at you with my certified fantabulous co host Grant Hughes. We are moving
into another NBA trade deadline primer from the Eastern Conference, getting through these final
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It would meet a lot to us if you did that? Who that
was long? That was a two minute amble for me, after saying I
wouldn't talk for minutes at a time. Grant the most important question though,
of the podcast, how the heck are you well? Dan? I've got
a little bit nervous, to be honest, because I knew we were going
to do that live stream or those live streams. But I don't know why
that makes me slightly nervous because it's like a condensed version of what we're doing
now, and it's not any different, but it is a little different.
We might have more than tens of watchers. I think it's well might you
might. Who knows, maybe we'll have fewer. Hard to say, I
have the Milwaukee Bucks coming up next and not a lot going on here because
the Bucks sort of need a closing wing and a guy that can play both
ends and doesn't have the one end or the other issues of Joe Ingles,
Wes Matthews, Grayson Allen. Pat Connaughton is probably the most complete guy at
that position, but he feels more like a six man or you know,
he's not. He's not someone I think you want out there necessarily as your
fifth closer if you can help it. Obviously, none of this matters if
Chris Middleton is not healthy, so they're obviously buyers. I think probably the
most likely things that they can trade to try to fill this need are Grayson
Allen. I don't know what the market for Ingles or Jordan Nora would be,
but that you can, you know, throw those guys all together.
Get George Hill in there if you want to, and then you're you know,
you're kind of hoping that that stuff and some seconds and you're twenty nine
first, which I think is the only one they can trade. You can
correct me if I'm wrong, No, you're correct, gets you gets you
into like the crowder, Eric Gordon, you know, Malik, just pick
pick your available wing, you know, and throw them in there. That's
like, it's fairly it's fairly uncomplicated for the Bucks. They need a particulars
and they have limited assets with that one first round or way out being the
sweetener, and some mid price contracts to try to get it. So you
know, we'll talk about him and it's all the same names that have been
in you know, the rumor mill forever. You know these I don't know
if distressed assets is the right word. But the Crowder is the Gordons,
those types of guys. Yeah, I mean the I don't know if you
saw the rumor of what they were going to get. I'm with you on
everything. You said what it was gonna take to get Jay Crowder, and
it was literally a trade that a redditor would cook up. We're giving up
all these spare parts and seconds to get a good player for your team.
You didn't give up anyone who was critical, and it actually worked, which
is why I probably have to tweak my trade idea that I have for it
was my favorite one, by the way that I came up with, and
people from the Bucks and the Jazz side, I think just shit all over
it, and so I like readjusted to it because I thought it was fine.
But look, I think, what's gonna They're gonna end up with Jay
Crowder and like that's gonna be their trade deadline, and that's fine. I'm
still going be very concerned about the half court offense. When they're healthy with
Middleton, Holiday and Jannie, it is probably not a big deal. So
if those guys are just going to be available in the playoffs, there's there's
no issue there, but it's just like kind of food for thought there,
and Grayson Allen can be up and down too, and the fact that he
is kind of important to them, and it's just like, even by acquiring
a Jay Crowder, have you solved the issue of well, that's our fifth
closing guy because Brook Lopez j honest, Jay Crowder, Drew Holiday and Chrisminlson
sounds really good in theory, but you could be hard up for shooting pretty
quickly and a depending on what type of run Jay Crowder is on. And
I think you feel they feel a little like not bigness. I guess they
are big. It feel a little big and a little slow. And I
think you're probably gonna need then Middleton or Crowder to guard somebody that can really
score that's quicker than they are, because you're gonna use Holiday on whoever the
most dangerous opposing score is like sometimes up to like hour forward even But then
I don't know, it's Crowder's kind of a wild card because like everybody trots
out how like he's been on two finals teams back to back, different teams
and he's a playoff guy and he can make an open three and but I
just he's not really he's a combo forward and I think he's he skews a
little closer to the four. And like, if you're playing alongside Michael Bridge,
is cool, that that works fine, But like I don't know that.
I do know that Middleton is not that level of defender like Bridges is,
and there's just gonna be someone that isn't that Crowder is going to be
a little bit, you know, hard pressed to kind of hang with,
especially if it's like a quick shifty trying to think who they would even face
potentially, Like I don't know, but yeah, that's the idea is like
there are question marks I think for me with him, even if I think
we probably agree he's on. Like you know, there's two or three guys
that the Bucks shit Targan and he's one of them. And look if you're
gonna get him for what it was Jordan Wara and George Hill and out it
was such a and seconds and then there what was the other It wasn't Grayson
Allen? Even what was the other salaries that were involved in that? I
can't remember. I mean your trade is oh Abaco was in there? So
like that, like was this was Wessey Matthews in there, like what the
heck here? So my trade idea for them is, I don't know how
to frame this because I think I need to give the adjusted one first based
off of like this was. I come with this trade idea before the Jay
Crowder rumor, so this was my trade idea. Milwaukee gets Malik Beasley,
Jay Crowder, a twenty twenty second round pick from Phoenix and a twenty twenty
seven second round pick from Phoenix. The Sons get Jared Vanderbilt and Joe Ingles.
The Jazz get Grayson Allen, Marjehanvauchamp, George Hill, the Boxes twenty
twenty nine first round pick top eight protection. Could you could loosen it,
but it turns into a twenty twenty nine second if not conveyed. However,
after hearing and I was uneasy, I wrote about this, how like giving
up Joe Ingles kind of feels not great in this deal because Malik Beasley and
Jay Crowder don't give you a ton of half court creation. But I actually
would pick either one of them to close games over Joe Ingles in that scenario,
and Joe Ingles would be weirdly helpful, to Phoenix. I'm not weirdly
helpful. He could be helpful to Phoenix. But now that you have the
rumor out there of okay, well this is what it costs to get Jay
Crowder, the new deal I have is the Bucks get Malik Beasley and Jay
Crowder, the Sons get Vanderbilt, George Hill, and Sergebaca. The Jazz
get Grayson Allen, Jordan War, Marjan bow Champ, Wesley Matthews, and
then that twenty twenty nine first round pick. And I'm wondering if bucksn't even
say like that's too much, just because it seems like they get Jay Crowder
for spare parts. But if it's costing you a first round pick and that
first round pick and mar Jean bow Champ to get Malie Beasley and Jay Crowder,
that feels like an absolute home run, especially if in this scenario you
are keeping Joe Ingles, which it seems like they would they would like to
do, But that was the trade idea. I came up with them because
I think that they need more than I don't think they need more. They
could still in the title, but if I wanted to sort of solidify their
status as one of the let's say two most likely teams to win the title.
I'm elite. Beasley jay Crowder acquisition just feels like it does that.
And you have Beasley's under team control next year, and you could resign Jay
Crowder if you really want to. I agree. I love that. From
the Buck side, I just bump on the Jazz giving up Beasley and Vanderbilt
basically and the premium assets a twenty twenty nine first, Like that's way out.
I don't know why. I just think that they might. I feel
like between those two guys, it should be a first and like at least
one I guess maybe bo Champ is that guy, but at least one other
thing that like really is a high end asset. It's not. That's the
only side I bump on. I think everybody else is like getting Vanderbilt to
Phoenix, I really like it, and I just don't I thought, would
they give up could they just protect the hell out of this year's first round
pick? Would they give that up Jake Crowder and that for Vanderbilt? If
they do that, I think it simplifies a lot where it's maybe the b
then don't have to give up their twenty twenty nine first, or they don't
have to go up bow Champ. But I just I'm not giving up a
first round pick if I'm Phoenix for just Jared Vanderbilt. Yeah, do you
agree that Crowder is the most likely Bucks acquisition if you just had to,
like, you know, give odds. Yeah, I just don't mean that
might even be. I'm doing trade deadline predictions and I try like the ones
I'm trying to get right, and I might just predict, predict Jay Crowder
to the Bucks most likely player to be traded for them. By the way,
who did you have? I think probably Alan just because of the salary.
If you're trying to do anything, whether it's Crowder or not, that's
the cleanest way to get there. Well, he wasn't involved in the last
That last package they're just gonna get. Ivacca is the rare minimum salary guy
who doesn't play that is basically demanding a trade. That's that's a tough look.
So yeah, he might go first. Our next team is the Cleveland
Cavaliers, and look, the question for them is the same as ever,
is how big of an upgrade can they make to the wing rotation without a
first round pick. To deal. And then it's also how all in are
they willing to go on that wing acquisition to where would you give up Isaaco
Coro who's been playing well to improve your wing rotation? Spoiler alert of people
are not happy in Cleveland with the trade that I proposed for this, even
though I thought it was fair. You also have carous Lavert sitting here,
and so I go back and forth to whether, like if they wanted to
take a swing and you include carous Leavert and Isaaco Coro, what does that
get you? Or even if you're just dangling Isaaco core out there, or
can you just go out and get a Josh Richardson or jel and McDaniels without
giving up any of like carous Leavert or Isaacle Coro. Is that the route
that they go? Do they think even smaller time where it's just you know,
the Bucks are looking for a home because they're trying to complete the six
for one to get Jay Crowder and then you get home. For Wesley Matthews
is like do the cavaliers just say, yeah, you know, like he's
just like kind of this wingish body who's eighty years old, But but we'll
take what route do you see them going here? I think I keep coming
back to Lavert, like I totally get the Akorro, the hesitation for moving
a Cooro, even if he, you know, was disappointing, like unequivocally
based on his draft slot and looks like there's a player there now or at
least lately. So if you want to hang on to him somehow, I
guess you know, that'd be great, And it would be even better if
he were good enough that this was not the constant topic of how do we
get a guy that can fill the gap between Garland Mitchell and then Mobili Allen,
Like who's that fifth guy? It would be great if it were a
Korro, so then maybe it still will be I don't know, But Lavert
is the guy that just seems superfluous to me. I don't I don't like
his fit in the starting lineup just because he provides principally what they don't need
as another shot creator on ball guy that you know, he can do other
things, but that's the main thing he's out there for. And I just
don't have to put a huge value on him doing that for second units or
with one or the other of Mitchell and Garland. So I think he's the
guy that I would be looking most to move. I just like, what
does every other team view him that way? Because I think we're past the
point where a team would say, oh, Lavert is a guy that we're
going to start at the two, just full stop, and he's going to
be you know, like, I don't know that his value is at that
level anymore. So then a chorl almost has to come back into it because
then he puts you in play with teams that want a second draft guy or
a high upside guy, a rookie scale contract like that kind of thing.
So like I'm looking at Gary Trent obviously not to jump too far ahead,
but someone like that. I don't know if he's quite big enough. Honestly,
I think I want, like, ideally, i'd want six seven sixty
eight with length to be at that three spot. You need to calm down.
Nevin Mobile and Jared Owen are there, right, that's the thing I'm
saying ideally. But Trent is the type, right, I think he's gonna
make shots. He's disruptive offensively, He's always gotten a lot of steals like
that. That works. That works for me, I just Lavert and some
other stuff is you know, and plenty of other stuff. I think it
is what it would take to get that done. The only thing that might
complicate this and I don't I don't even know if this was supposed to be
off the record or not, so I'll just making off the record. But
apparently I don't know if this was a public quote or if this is something
I was told off the record that Lavert is willing to accept a pay cut
to stay in Cleveland. And it's like that complicates it a little bit,
where if you think you could get him cheaper just to have him as sort
of like the and he has not been terrible this season, so like it.
I still think they need to make a wing addition, but that's going
to factor into the calculus. Which my trade idea for the Cavs, which
again was roundly rejected by a few people in Cleveland, was Ken Birch and
Gary Trench Junior for Carros Laverte Isaaco Coro in a Denver's twenty twenty six second
round pick. If you could get back or not Ken Birch in that deal
like a different smaller salary. I just viewed it as like, if you're
not getting up a tangible first round pick, like that's what you would need
to do to get Garry Trench Junior. Maybe you could even complete this deal
with out Karis LeVert stepladder your way there with Jeddy Osman, Dylan Windler and
Isaaco Coro I believe gets you there. Would that make it more likely you're
not getting Gary tren Junior though to Cleveland without giving up Isaaco Korro. That
would just be And he's been hitting his threes, but it's not I won't
look, He's fooled me like eight times before, I'm not going to let
it happen a ninth time. I don't see it translating to the playoffs that
he will be an offensive detriment to them. I think you can already look
and teams are not guarding him. That is going to make life tougher on
other players, even if he is hitting his wide open threes, because he's
not going to take eight of them a game. So that would be my
concern. I would move Isaaco Coro. Now would I move him for Josh
Richardson like I proposed that the Spurs should try and do that. I probably
wouldn't most of the use. I think you get that deal done without including
him. But like Isaaco Coro is just I'm not out on him as an
NBA player, but for what this team needs, I know, he gives
you so much defensive value when you're playing two smaller guards. You have him
a mobile and Jared Allen, like there's a cushion there, And so I
would move him for Gary tren Junior. I would too, that I know.
I mean he's on an expiring deal, which makes him similar to Trent
and well slightly different because of the player option, but like, uh similar
in that regard. Like if I'm Toronto, I think Lavert is a little
closer to the type of player that I might want because that, like I
just said, like his skill is as an on ball shot creator, you
know, like I think that. You know, now if he would rather
just stay in Cleveland and is not interested in resigning, if he ends up
in Toronto, that's a whole other thing. But you know, I was
asking, almost rhetorically, like who's looking for that? Actually Toronto is looking
for that. Toronto want should want a player kind of like Carius Lavert,
especially if you can get him, you know for a player in Trent that
maybe is going to cost more or you know, doesn't quite feel that same
that same niche Do you have anything else that there's situations like just kind of
simple they're most likely who is their most likely a player to be traded?
I had it as Carous laverp. I'm sort of wondering at this point,
is it is it Jetty Osman? Well, like I think I was leaning
Lavert. I guess I'll stay with Lavert. But that's only on the assumption
that they really are going to go address the small forward spot. But if
it's if it's not, if it's like a smaller thing, or they're gonna
take some other stings. There's a lot of options like Osman, Yeah,
seven million this year, non guarantee next year, Windward four million, or
even yeah, like well Dean Wade's not going anywhere. Yeah, there's a
couple other options. But I guess it's probably Lavert. And I just say
that because I think Cleveland is good enough or should view itself as good enough
to operate on a we gotta we need to add somebody just now to see
see what we can do in these playoffs. I think I concur with you.
That was a nice easy team. Yeah, the Pacers are my next
team, and they're kind of another buyer seller hard to say, and it's
kind of been that way from the moment they had a hot start or hotter
than than expected. They've kind of fallen off a cliff ever since Harry's Haliburton
has been hurt. But they're still in a position where, you know,
they still have some cap space. They used up seventeen million of it on
a renegotiate and extend with Miles Turner, but they're still just under eleven million
in space. So all the like take on a lopsided trade, you know,
to get a pick with some bad money. Yeah, you can take
John Collins be the team that finally ends this national nightmare of will John Collins
trade. So I still think for me, they ought to be thinking,
you know, I'm not. I don't know if I want to take on
bad money too, you know, enthusiastically. But they can be opportunistic.
They can try to buy. They can you know, they can see what's
out there for Buddy Healed, who you know, there was a time where
that contract looked really bad. But I think it's just twenty one million next
year. I don't have their sheet up in front of me. That's a
it's a botch job on my part. But he signed you know, when
he signed that deal, it had declining structure. So like he's someone that
I think would have significant value elsewhere. And if you assume Bennick Matherin,
which would be the correct assumption, is in line to take over that job.
Yeah, twenty one million twenty one point two for healed this year,
at nineteen point three next year and then it expires. I think that's someone
they should be looking to move. I think Chris Duarte is on that list
too, you know, Isaiah Jackson, t J McConnell. Yeah, I
for you guys, I gad Jackson at this point, if you're actually gonna
keep Turner, who is I don't know if you've been tracking that. There
was a huge debate over whether Miles Turner which still trade eligible after his extension,
and the verdict is he could be traded now. Kevin Pritchard said,
we don't as sign people to contracts just to trade them. I believe Bob
Meyers also said the same thing about DeAngelo Russell, and we all have that.
Yeah, but you knew that wasn't true. With Russell, there was
no there was no question. So yeah, I think I think it's an
opportunistic situation for the Pacers. I don't know how how easy it will be
necessarily to go get like another young piece with you know, Buddy Healed and
you probably not giving draft picks as your as your main assets to move.
But like they can sweeten whatever they want if they need to move Healed and
there's a young player or something that they can take back. It's it's it's
it's out. It's possible because they've got all their own picks. They've got
Boston's first, they've got Cleveland's first and twenty three, so they have the
assets. I still just view them as as a team that you know,
doesn't need to make huge swings. Definitely should not trade Turner. I think
I think he makes a lot of sense with Haliburton. So yeah, they're
they're kind of in a weird middle ground, but in a strange way,
the stakes are just so much lower than a lot of other teams in their
position, just because they have Haliburton as a cornerstone, they have Matherin.
Turner's deal is going to look really reasonable on those two extra years that he
added, because it's like right around twenty million. So yeah, I don't
know. I don't have a great over you know, overview for them,
but I guess my main thing is i'd be looking to move healed. I
just don't I don't know. I think he has value, and I don't
know why you necessarily need him on a team that has its backcourt fairly well
set. Yeah, I'm just like he's been so good this year, and
if they're actually trying to not accelerate but not decelerate their process, you just
keep him and then you could revalue your position over the summer. I'm just
because I could see them buying just they've they've fallen off since the tires,
Halibert and injury, which just makes sense. Their tenth in the Eastern Conference
right now, I believe, unless I have not refreshed this, Yeah,
they're tenth four years under five hundred, Like they're still within striking distance of
doing something. I'm not saying they would consolidate all their picks, but I
could see them just standing pat and trying to make them run or is it.
I guess we can get to well who's your most likely player to be
traded for this team? I mean, like you said, the Turner deal
makes Jackson, I mean even Goga Beata's it might be. It might be
the one one of those centers. Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean,
I don't think there's a market for Daniel Tys or he would be on
the list too. They don't. I don't know. I'm curious what you
think. I don't think that. I don't see anyone that like leaps out
as all this guy is, you know, because of salary and position or
whatever, like, oh he's gotta go. They're just it could be Shaped
Brisett like for all I know. So, yeah, they don't have I
put Isaiah Jackson, and I put that after the Miles Turner extension. I
was just like, all right, like they gotta do something with him now.
But the trade idea I have does not involve isaihah Jackson. It is
the Pacers get John Collins and Justin Holliday. The Hawks get Zach Collins,
Josh Richardson, o' shape Resett or Jalen Smith. They can have their pick
Cleveland's twenty twenty three first round pick, which is lottery protected then turns into
two seconds. It will not turn into two seconds. It'll it'll convey.
Then the Spurs get Chris Daarte, Jalen Johnson, and Daniel Tye. So
if I'm the Pacers, we'll look at it from their perspective. I'm giving
up Duarte, Tye, Brissette or Smith and that first, and I'm getting
back Collins because the holiday is kind of incidental to me, just in like
we've talked all year about like John Collins value not making sense. That's I
think that's a pretty good, pretty good deal to get Collins for that,
because you're you're not giving away a core piece, You're just you know,
I would give up the second first round pick too, Like if if and
that is said, we want that Boston pick, Yeah, I would give
it up to in a hard point. Yeah, sure, I think that's
fine. I think from the Pacers perspective, that totally works. And like,
you know, I don't know what the Collins Miles Turner fit would would
be like, but I think I kind of like probably perfect. Yeah,
I like I think Collins. I still believe in Collins as a defender because
I've just seen it in flashes in big games and I think there's a great
chance. I mean imagine, like none of the friction of the Sabonis turner
pairing would exist here just because both of them can do stuff with the ball
away from the basket and both of them can shoot. It's just it makes
a lot more sense. So I'm very into that. If I'm the Pacers,
do you have anything else on them? Let's see, I feel like
we want I don't want a short change the Pacers too much here, But
I don't know, like if is there a contract out there? I think
Collins is obviously a value add but is there is there is there a way
for them to get into a situation where they're taking on somebody's unwanted money and
like getting another first, because that sort of feels like the route you would
normally take for a team in this position. But I just don't mean like
it's all they have to, like because there it's eleven million that they haven't
kept with a little under eleven million cap space. That just made like,
you know, the Nicks, what if they just said, we'll give you
Obie Topp and Nevin Fournie, But who are you sending back out right in
that? And also that's a trade. I could see the making where it's
sort of a cheaper player. Cam Reddish would be someone else that that brings
some mind there, maybe even as a Deek Bay, Like if the Pistons
like, well we'll take that Cleveland pick fors a deck Bay or even the
I don't think they take the Boston pick. I could see them making a
move like that. I just lopsided money wise. I don't know how fee
ble that is. Like John Collins is the perfect example where it's okay,
they made I just made that one work. But you might need to send
out you know, like what is the other players that you're sending out to
make? Like, because if a team wants to get off money, it's
probably pretty sizeable. Yeah, Like are who even are the salary dump candidates?
Like we've said, Heyward j Robinson, Duncan Robinson, Yeah, yeah,
you're gonna. Yeah, it's just you know, that's always the route.
I like to go for a team that's not gonna you know, contend
and has calf space. But the Pacers don't have a lot like you said,
and there just aren't there aren't that many out there. Yeah, but
this team, I feel like I guess it's just gonna stand pat now,
Like I don't I could see them being I think they're so I'll phrase it
this way. I think they're more likely to opportunistically buy than they are to
just trade buddy Healed. Yeah, I think that's probably right. It's just
something about Healed and like I understand that he's been a good locker room presence
and has played well and make sense on a team if next year you're trying
to like, you know, win a playoff series potentially, as kind of
far fetched as that seems from here, it's just still like the Age,
the Age band and the like, Is he a guy that you're gonna be?
I don't know. It's just he's the kind of the which one of
these things doesn't belong to some extent, and so that always like puts my
trade, you know, antenna up. But there's no there's nothing wrong with
keeping one of the best shooters in the league who's gonna make nineteen million next
year. Like that's if you need to trade him, do it at the
deadline next year when there are more teams that could give you something. Next
team up in the Central Division, the Chicago Bulls, are they buyers,
sellers or inexplicably stand patterns. I have no idea what they're gonna do,
and I think the questions here are just sort of easy. Are they a
blow it up candidate? Is Alex Caruser or Nikolavukovich available, even if they're
not blow it up candidates? And if they if they're looking to continue to
make a run with this court, can they add shooting with death end or
another big they have a bunch of needs as a buyer, And you could
also ask like, well, how does a Lonzo balls trajectory impactice? It's
very clear he's just not going to play this season, so you need to
operate under the assumption that you're not going to have a Lonzo Ball. I
have their most likely be player to be traded as Kobe White, even though
I think that it should be like I'm all for tear it down. I
don't say that lightly. I say it because they could actually do it,
Like you get something for zach Lavine and de Rosen and Caruso. I don't
know what you can have for Boots at this point. But but he's expiring.
They're just in such like an uninspiring position right now, and they've had
some like hotter spurts during this stretch, But like when you go and the
trade idea I have for them is just like I couldn't even come up with
like a buy trade for them because they're so pick encumbered. They have their
pick this year is gonna go to Orlando. It's top four protected, which
is the argument, by the way, against them blowing it up, because
then you're risk sending Orlando this really valuable pick. They also their twenty twenty
five pick under top ten protection to the to the San Antonio Spurs. They
do have Portland's lottery protected first round pick coming in. That's probably well,
I won't say probably, there's a chance though that doesn't convey protected. That's
one of the worst protected picks to protected through twenty twenty eight. What is
what was neil O'Shea thinking? I think he was the one that made that
trade. So I just I don't know what they do. I don't like
coming on this podcasting. I don't have a feel for what a team should
do or will do. Rather, I know what they should do. I
think we all know what the Bulls should do. I just don't have a
feel for what they will do. And also what can they feasibly do?
I mean to me, I don't have a lot to add. I think.
So if you're just looking at say between Caruso, j Rosen and I
don't know, throw Lavine in there, I guess. I mean, how
many first round picks, like good first do you think those three guys should
yield? Is it like seven? I mean, you know, if you're
thinking Levin, we're gonna give up five first round picks for Rojana No,
right, yeah, I'm really loose with the picks today. But that's all
to say, Like, I mean, look, I'm not the right guy
to talk to about the Bulls because I was as out as out could be
on their whole way of thinking on the Bouchevich trade. And we're talking two
years ago now, like I just you know, and it's already I think
it's I'm gonna write about this. I think it's one of the worst trades
in the last five years, like pretty comfortably just because you know, not
just because of the assets. You know, Wendell Carter I think, has
been a better player than Vouchevic over the life of that deal, which was
like not the plan in a win now trade. And Franz Wagner is probably
going to be better than both of them. And there's that other pick that
might convey should convey this year. It's a question of how good it's going
to be. But more so than the particulars, just the overall idea of
the Bulls were trying to win in the immediate and they just like didn't do
it right. They picked Bouchevich to be a center, you know, on
an offense first team, and it just wasn't big enough value add And now
here they are and Bouchevitch they might just lose them, you know, free
agency, which would probably be fine. Like that's not a good place to
be. So this is a teardown to me, and and I would want
all the picks I could possibly get to sort of you know, refill the
cupboard in that regard. And because I also think like the alternative is we're
going to add to this roster, like how with what and to what end?
Because I don't see a trade that's even remotely feasible that gets them into
the I don't know even not like forget Boston, Milwaukee, Philly, like
to the Cleveland tier of the East. I just like I don't. I
don't see it. And so then like, well, what's what's the point.
So yeah, I think they're sellers, and I think it's just as
much because as much as anything, because like the buy route just almost doesn't
work, you know, I don't I don't understand how you make that work.
I don't even know what. Let's just say they were willing to dangle
the Portland pick. What is the matching salary? U think if you're not
trading Levigne de Rosen or Bouche, who wants Monzo right now? If someone
will, well, I would actually take a flyer on Lonzo on a team.
But like the value, Like, are you giving up the first round
pick to get off of Lonzo's money is two years and about forty two million
left on his deal after this one. And then so once you get past
Lonzo, everyone else makes below ten million dollars and so now you're giving up
like not real stuff, but like you're gonna have to give Patrick Williams or
Alex Caruso in addition to Kobe White to get a Gary Trent Junior or Maleague
Beasley. No, you're not doing that. Yeah, well, Williams is
the guy we hadn't mentioned him until you just did. Like, if you're
packaging a player with a first for a win, now move, he's got
to be it. And and like you said, he's making seven point eight
million this year and like that's just I don't know if that's going to get
you there. But Willie there that would I was complaining that there's like I
don't see a route. Like that's about it. I think is if you're
trying to get a veteran to help you, Williams probably has to be the
guy to go. And like it's not like Williams. I don't know,
I'm mostly out on Williams, but man, you know he's throw away exactly.
You're not just giving a play that's like, yeah, you would give
him up in an OG and a nob trade for sure. But Patrick Williams
the first and like what's said, like yeah, like that's not doing it.
Maybe Caruso, Patrick Williams and the first. But then if you're trying
to win, now, isn't Cruso important? Like it's just he is the
big thing to me is like in an alternate reality, how different are things
if Lonzo Ball just is healthy because he was so obviously critical to them when
they were at the start of last year. I know what he did was
so connective and critical, but he's not the difference between this team being eleventh
and fourth in the East. Is he his three I guess his three point
volume in defense or just two things that they need so badly. I mean,
yeah, it's so it's it's like you're really you're playing pretty fast and
loose with like small samples, because you know, when they were great to
start last year or better than they've been since then, it was just him
and Caruso breaking havoc and the ball was hopping around because Lonzo was out there,
and just none of that has persisted since he's been out. So it's
sort of you just have the the two comparative, you know, sections of
this team over the last couple of years, one with Ball, one without
and with Baal they were good and without Ball they had not been good.
And it's just I wonder, like, would we even be considering like a
blow it up thing if he had just been healthy. I think we'd be
a lot closer to thinking like, well, what can they get for Patrick
Williams because they're not that far away from being as good as Cleveland or like
lower it even Miami, whatever, Brooklyn, if they're not all the way
like I think it's a lot closer question if he's healthy, and that's just
that's just bad luck, because like that was a good deal to get ball
like that. They did that, right, I think, so my trade
for them, there was the rumor of report that they wanted two first round
picks for Alex Caruso. Then there was a report that the Nuggets were shopping
Bones Highland. So my trade was Christian Brown and Bones Highland for Alex Carusoe
Javonte Green. I view that as the equivalent of two first round picks.
Brown first year of his rookie Kale is showing some defensive toughness. If he
can hit his free throws and get his threes up in more volume, he'd
be good. Bones Highland they could use like you have Gore on Draget,
you have Kobe White. He's probably an upgrade over both as a bench score.
I still think there's a move you make if you're looking at pivoting into
a bigger picture direction. So I was curious. Let's just say the move
is Chicago is looking at other trades to sell who says no to this framework,
which is Christian Brown and Bones Highland for Alex Caruso and Javonte Green,
who injured right now. But if he comes back from I think it's a
knee problem, he's actually really he's really going to help you with your front
court defense. If you're Denver, I want well. I actually I guess
Chicago says no only because they might disagree that those two guys are the same
as two first round picks. And that's mostly a statement that I love it
for Denver because I think I don't. I don't value Highland Highland that highly
because it's just, I mean, seems like he's classed with Mike Malone and
he doesn't defend these you know, that kind of live wire second unit scoring
is not that value. I do like Brown, but he's just such a
low usage, you know piece as a rookie that Caruso's impact would be so
huge for Denver that that I'm good with that. I think the Bulls might
be correct in thinking, like we can get a legit first for Caruso.
Where would you do if you're the Nuggets, would you change it up to
go Bones Thiland or you're twenty twenty nine first for Caruso. So then like
that's just a question of do I is Brown or A twenty twenty nine first
more valuable? I guess that's more getting the immediacy of bones. So maybe
you have three pick this year. Yeah, I don't know, that's I
mean, like, then you definitely trade Kobe White, I guess, but
that was I mean, I think you happen to let him off for nothing
and you're okay. It's just like, yeah, that's not bad. I'm
with that. Are you're the Pistons, right, Yeah, I got the
Pistons. They they're, believe it or not, at the bottom of the
East standings. They are sellers, but they're weirdly powerful sellers because they have
a couple of guys, chiefly Billiam Mgdanovich that maybe there are other names that
have come up more often than his this year as trade candidates, but like
I'm not sure. I mean, he may be the number one Collins,
maybe Collins, Yeah, maybe, I don't know who else. There's Beasley
and GTJ I would throw up there. Yeah, he's he's He's in the
pantheon though, of most mentioned trade candidates. I guess my main question for
them is like how serious are they about their asking price for him? Because
I think it's reasonable to drive a really hard bargain because as we've said,
like this is the guy that everybody should want, that it should theoretically be
available. But I also don't know how. I mean, they're acting like
this is going to be the case, but is it really realistic that the
Pistons are just going to hang on to him and try to run it back
again next year with this whole like we're ready to take a step forward thing
and we want the Like that feels pretty posturey to me, But they haven't
moved him yet. I just he's the swing piece for this team. He
might be the other than the Raptors, like the swing piece for the trade
market at this deadline. So that's really my main uncertainty, because there are
other guys that can trade to, and they should. They should be looking
to sell just for everything, which cuts against this idea that we're going to
hold on to a couple of vets because we think we can be better next
year. You know, Sadi Bay a much cheaper alternative still on his rookie
scale deal. Alec Burks is really palatable just because he is the you know,
score shot creator, you know hybrid one two, I guess more of
a two lately. But he's ten million this year and ten point five as
a team option next year, so you get like a lot of leverage and
power, and that's just a valuable thing to have. I still don't know
if either Bay or Burks is going to get you more than seconds, so
I guess that would maybe cut against trying to move them this year. But
yeah, this is a seller. I think Bogdanovich should be the most likely
player to move, just because the return projects to me as the greatest.
I just don't know, what do you think. Do you think this is
a scenario where if they don't get I don't know what the most recent we
need a legit first, a good young player, and then whatever salary it's
gonna take. That seems to be what they want. Do you think that's
real and they're just not going to move him, or is that let's put
that out there and we'll settle for a first. You know, I don't
know if this is me snorting the slop too much, but I do believe
it because you look at them leading into next year, so they're gonna have
another high draft pick. Kate Cunningham, Jay and Ivy Jail and during killing
as making improvements this year, still having Isaiah Stewart, whatever they see into
de Bays on the block, plus cap space, they can still have over
thirty three million cap space this summer is what I have him at. They
might be under pressure to win. They don't have all these extra first round
picks in the chamber. Kate Cunningham year three. At that point, how
long has Troy Weaver now been in charge at that juncture they made the Bogdanovitch
trade in the first place, And even if they're not under pressure to win,
to make a play in or playoff push, they might see a pathway
to doing it because you have Kade and Jay n Ivy in year two and
improved Killian Hayes, having Jail and Durhan, having Bogdanovitch one of the best
shooters in the game right now, having Alec Burks who has that team option,
so you could end up keeping him, and Burks has been good this
year. The argument for them to trade, but because the other thing here
is they don't need to trade any of these guys to suck. They are
bad right now, they're going to have top lottery odds, and so if
they wanted to wait and say, let's just see how we do next season
and we can revisit this. The one flaw in that logic would be I
don't think with Bogdanovitch specifically, I would argue that Burks would probably get similar
value next year as an expiring contract Bogdanovitch as a partial guarantee on the second
year of his extension. Like, the peak of his value is right now,
the pinnacle is right there, and so if you're gonna move him,
move him. But if you're not going to get I would say a good
first round pick, while also maybe not having to take back money. Where
I think that's what also complicates this is I think they're a team that,
because they will feel either pressure or the impetus to try and win, they
value that cap space they're about to have. And so if the Heat come
along and say, well we'll give you an unprotected pick this year, we
have to take Duncan Robinson, I'm not sure that Detroit does that deal.
Yeah, I think I think it's a little bit like the ant and Obe
argument, which is like, I don't think the market will be better to
move this guy for Bogdanovitch than it is right now. I agree with that,
and I think I think if i'm them, I've kind of answer my
own thing. I think it's a little bit posturing because it's just not realistic
to get every thing that they seem to be asking for. But I do
think it is fair for them to say, we need a good first.
We don't want Miami's first. What's gonna be like twenty third or whatever.
It is, Like, we need a good first and you know, put
it out a couple of years, even if you want to, that's fine.
Just let's I want like pretty substantial upside with it and then whatever salary
you need to use to make it work. But like, the thing for
me with the Pistons is or a thing is that I still like Cunningham has
shown him like real promise, Ivy, real flashes, Jalen during I don't
know how easy it is for a non stretch center to really be a star.
Even with those guys, Cunningham is the closest. I'm not positive that
he's like the best player on a playoff team going forward, maybe probably even
but the injury stuff combined with just you know, they haven't done much when
he's been healthy, Like, I kind of want more bites at the apple
to get the guy that's better than everybody I have, And like that's probably
unrealistic or greedy or whatever, but that's that would be my thought of let's
move Bogdanovich now because the value is going down and maybe my best chance to
get another lottery ticket is today and it might not be there next summer.
So yeah, I don't know. I think it's some posturing, but some
of it's justified. But then I think you still need more lottery tickets than
than the Pistons have, which I can already tell that you're not gonna like
my trade. So who's your most likely player? We trades boyon Bodonovitch,
I guess, but like Burks are bay are right there? I have Burkes
because I thought the asking price on him would be lower. It's just like
that, so it seems like easier for him to move. You're not gonna
like my deal. I could tell already, and I was kind of the
fence on it. But Duncan Robinson, Nakola Yovich, the Miami Heats twenty
twenty three first round pick in twenty twenty eight second round pick for Boyon Madonovitch.
Yeah, it's it's not quite there because Robinson's salary is not Yeah he
is three years and like fifty five million left about. Yeah, it's not
super interested in that. And that first is I know it's got top four
protection on it, but like, yeah, the upside on that in twenty
three is especially when you're giving them but because like right now, I like
the heat or not, I will say not inoculated against disaster. So it's
people like they do have a top ten record as we're recording this, and
so like that's with Kyle, that's with that missing a ton of people,
missing a ton of games. That's with Kyle Lowry not being that great this
year. So there's definitely like the element of Okay, well that's not really
a good first round pick. Yeah, And I mean, like Jesus Christ,
like Bo'danovius would make them so much better, Like he would, he
would, he would fix so much of what's going on with him, even
though I just don't know what. I don't know what team would give up
the first round pick that I think gets it done. For Detroit, because
I don't even think does the Lakers twenty twenty seven first round pick do it?
Because now you're saying, well, the Imory asset, it's something that's
not going to convey until five drafts from now. Yeah, Well that's that's
always the issue with a situation like this is the teams that should want the
guy are good, and the first that they're giving up, unless you punt
them way out, are just not going to be that good. So it's
like, how far out do you need to go for the team that has
the veteran the bad team with the veteran to move to be persuaded like,
Okay, this is enough, Like the potential upside of this one is enough.
I mean that twenty seven first from the Lakers to me is a hell
of a lot better than a twenty three first from the Heat this year.
Correct. So I but even then it's like, should the Lakers even do
that? Because I don't know if he puts them over the top like he
might for the Heat. Are you ready to take us out here? Yeah?
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