WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.919 --> 00:00:10.439 Big Food and be on with Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites, 2 00:00:10.839 --> 00:00:19.879 so like to subscribe and read it five Stach and Me on Righteous Day 3 00:00:19.960 --> 00:00:29.679 and listening watching always keep it squatching And now your hosts Cliff Barrickman and James 4 00:00:29.719 --> 00:00:34.159 Bobo Fay, Cliff, Hey, Bob's what's happening Man? Oh not much. 5 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:35.960 I was surprised you made it back. I thought you were going to 6 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:38.920 be out there cast and it sounded like, well, yeah, I still 7 00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:42.640 maybe. Actually that's a whole complicated thing about my life right now. I 8 00:00:43.079 --> 00:00:46.159 just ran home real fast. I can do the podcast from home instead up 9 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:50.079 from work. And as I was driving down my driveway, which you know 10 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:53.159 is like a half mile driveway, I got a call from the contact in 11 00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:58.119 between the witness and I. So I got I just called the witness and 12 00:00:58.159 --> 00:01:00.000 left a message. I just texted him him to call me back. So 13 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:04.239 the deal is this for our listeners. A sighting occurred two nights ago, 14 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:10.000 and that would be on the night of August twenty second, out kind of 15 00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:14.120 near Carson, Carson, Washington. And I'm trying to gather more information. 16 00:01:14.200 --> 00:01:19.480 But what I have so far as secondhand information that somebody that they heard some 17 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:22.799 noise out back and they thought it might have been a bear or a cougar, 18 00:01:22.920 --> 00:01:26.319 So they went out back just to check it out, and they saw 19 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:30.120 a very large man shaped shadow standing on their berm next to the woods I 20 00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:36.760 guess like a berm behind their house somewhere. And the guy ran inside, 21 00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:40.480 but not before he saw the thing run along the woods line I guess the 22 00:01:40.480 --> 00:01:42.319 woodline and kind of disappear. He ran inside to get his gun. When 23 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:46.840 he came back out with his with his rifle, the thing was nowhere to 24 00:01:46.840 --> 00:01:49.239 be seen. He didn't hear anything. He went to go look on the 25 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:53.079 berm and apparently was from what I understand, it's very very steep, and 26 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:57.760 there were footprints basically going up the berm from the woods and then who knows 27 00:01:57.799 --> 00:02:01.400 where else it went, you know at this point. So when I first 28 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:07.439 heard about it, I was told that the witness told are the intermediary who 29 00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:09.639 put me in touch with him. Man, you should see the size of 30 00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:14.159 those footprints. They're huge, is what he said. So clearly there's footprints 31 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:16.039 in the ground. Wow, you guys had a rain, didn't didn't you 32 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:20.719 just have rain? No rain, but rain is coming in a couple of 33 00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:23.560 days supposedly, maybe as soon as Tuesday or even sooner. So it's kind 34 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:28.120 of a race against time. And to complicate matters even more, I leave 35 00:02:28.199 --> 00:02:31.879 tomorrow for Idaho. I'll be in Idaho all weekend, so yeah, if 36 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:38.039 I so basically I have tonight or early early early tomorrow morning to try to 37 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:40.039 cast these things, if I can even get the Witness to allow me to 38 00:02:40.039 --> 00:02:44.719 come on his property. So I'm just giving you a heads up and giving 39 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:47.479 all of our listeners and also our guests as well, who will introduce in 40 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:52.039 a minute. I mean no disrespect whatsoever to any of y'all. But if, 41 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:53.719 obviously, if a call comes in from the Witness, I need to 42 00:02:53.719 --> 00:02:57.280 take it. I need to go speak to him, and I may even 43 00:02:57.280 --> 00:03:00.719 need to leave immediately because it's it's a it's a bit of a drive out 44 00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:01.960 there for me. It's about an hour and a half or so, you 45 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:05.439 know, and I still have to come home and pack for Idaho tomorrow tonight. 46 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:07.680 So there's all that. So yeah, so there's there's school stuff happening. 47 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:12.759 As usual in my life. I live a very big footy sort of 48 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:15.639 life, So there's that. So anyway that I want to give you a 49 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:16.879 heads up in case I do need to leave. But other than that, 50 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:20.919 man, cool, other cool things are happening too. Got a new mask 51 00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:23.520 for the museum. Got a new Native mask. I'm working with a tribal 52 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:25.840 member to try to identify what kind of masks that is. And I think 53 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:30.800 I haven't nailed it down on old one. It's not too old. The 54 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:34.439 guy I'm working with says is probably within in the last twenty five thirty years, 55 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:36.439 and he may even know the artist. So I'm going to try to 56 00:03:36.439 --> 00:03:38.120 reach out to the artist to verify that he's the one that did it. 57 00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:42.080 But it's pretty cool, man, It's really cool. Yeah, it's a 58 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:46.800 Zonica mask, but it's unlike any other Zonica mask I've ever seen. It's 59 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:49.840 quite large, it's eighteen inches. I got it for a very good price, 60 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:53.039 which I'm because because the person who I bought it from isn't a Native 61 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:55.319 artist. He just has a bunch of stuff that he's gathered over time, 62 00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:00.840 you know, like through a state sales or whatever. But it does appear 63 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:02.199 that this is a legitimate Native mask, and again, I think I do 64 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:04.879 have the tribe. I just want to try to verify it, and maybe 65 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:11.159 even the artist, so we'll see. But this particular mask is so unusual 66 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:15.039 because not only is it Zonkwa and quite large again, like eighteen inches or 67 00:04:15.080 --> 00:04:17.399 something like that, but out of it, out of Zonkwa's head, are 68 00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:23.000 two skulls, like almost like antenna, you know, popping out of her 69 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:29.120 head that shaped like skulls. And I asked my indigenous friend what is the 70 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:30.120 meaning of this, and he says, well, it could be a couple 71 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:34.920 of things. It could be the idea that zonic Wad steals children and maybe 72 00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:39.920 those are baby skulls or some sort of children's skulls which has its own macab 73 00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:43.560 sort of overtone do it, or just people in general, you know, 74 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:46.600 like maybe because Zonica is the cannibal hairy woman that lives in the woods. 75 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:51.879 But it also might have an association with apparently like a kind of like a 76 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:58.120 secret society or a secret cult of cannibal people, you know, in the 77 00:04:58.519 --> 00:05:00.839 Pacific northwest of in British cl So it may have an association with that. 78 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:04.240 So hopefully I can dig up a little bit more information and learn a little 79 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:08.000 bit more about this, and then when I do learn about it, I 80 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:12.079 can write up some information on it and then add it to the displays at 81 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:15.199 the North American big Foot Center. So yeah, yeah, it's a really 82 00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:19.079 impressive mask. I've never seen another one like it, so I can't be 83 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:23.319 it can't be more excited about having it. It's really great. But what 84 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:25.959 you've been hearing about the fires a Bluff Creek by the way, Bluff Creek 85 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:28.879 is burning, some of it is Yeah, I think it's gonna be all 86 00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:30.959 right. Well, I was looking at some stuff the updates today, man 87 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:34.839 like up by Mosquito Lake is burning, and then up just north of Blue 88 00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:40.480 Creek Mountain is burning where the famous Prince happened. And then the fire folks 89 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:45.480 are saying that those two fires are predicted to burn together anyway, So what 90 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:49.279 they're what they're gonna do is try to push the fires down into Bluff Creek, 91 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:54.600 which will almost certainly take out Laos Camp, and then push the fire 92 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:58.120 into the river and try to control it down there. So it sounds I 93 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:00.639 mean, who by by the time this comes out, we'll all know the 94 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:02.600 outcome. But essentially, at this point, it looks like Louse Camp is 95 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:05.560 going to be a goner. The wind's been really mellowed though. That's the 96 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:09.439 one thing I'm hoping for. And then it did rain up here. Oh 97 00:06:09.480 --> 00:06:11.519 that's good. Yeah, I was just I was just at work a little 98 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:15.160 while ago checking out the fire updates and and there's also stuff at Blue Creek 99 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:18.639 and then the upper reaches of Blue Creek as well, so that's problematic. 100 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:23.279 Yeah, I supposed to take Shannon the grow there. Sometimes this coming up, 101 00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:26.680 I said, you better hurry. It's it's not gonna be there. 102 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:29.319 It's going to burn down one of these days. Coming up here, seeing 103 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:30.800 I think, yeah, well, Shannon, if you're listening, you might 104 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:33.000 have be you might have missed your chance, you know, to see it 105 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:35.920 as it was, So we'll see. I hope not God, I'd be 106 00:06:35.959 --> 00:06:41.160 a true loss absolutely. But you know, speaking of Bigfoot history, you 107 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:44.759 want to bring our guests in they just so Love said recently without Cliff, 108 00:06:44.839 --> 00:06:47.600 and we had a John lined up. But I was like, this is 109 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:49.839 this is the guy. I said, it's too important to just do a 110 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:54.680 lot like Cliff's got to be here because this guy's a big figure. We 111 00:06:54.920 --> 00:06:59.199 respect him a lot. He's been involved for fifty sixty years. Whatever it's 112 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:01.560 been. Well, the information he's still got stuff going on. He just 113 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:04.560 sent me some audio the other day. That's something got just in the last 114 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:11.079 two weeks. Great great researcher and a friend of the squatsing of this show, 115 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:15.920 John Andrews from Washington. John, thank you very much for coming on 116 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:18.079 big Foot and Beyond and welcome. We're so pleased and honored to have you. 117 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:21.439 Yeah. Well, John Andrews, And as I say, I've been 118 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:25.879 at this longer than I'd like to admit, since I believe it or not, 119 00:07:26.439 --> 00:07:30.279 the late nineteen fifties and into the sixties in Colorado. So I started 120 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:38.240 there and expanded my research into several of the Western States and British Columbia as 121 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:41.480 well, and even at one point was all ready to go on an expedition 122 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:46.120 to Mongolia to look for the almost or the almasty. So, you know, 123 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:48.600 in all these years, while I've had quite a bit here, I've 124 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:53.639 always went to go to other areas more of a worldwide view of what's going 125 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:56.920 on. And we can discuss that later. Well, John, So you 126 00:07:56.959 --> 00:08:00.120 said you got into it in the late nineteen fifties early nineteen sixties. Was 127 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:03.560 it the Jerry Crew incident that got you in it? Or perhaps John Green 128 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:07.120 or what got you going, Yeah, hey, what a guy question, 129 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:09.839 because I've been reviewing my notesure and I just put down the word Jerry Crew. 130 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:16.439 And so you might have remembered in the well Boy Scout article back at 131 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:22.360 that time was talking about Jerry Crew, and I talked about the Gold Road, 132 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:26.800 which you all know about, and I visited and spent about a week 133 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:31.879 back in there here several years ago, starting off with rather a strange incident 134 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:35.559 even before we went in to that area. So all the things had happened 135 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:41.600 there are you know, the earth moving wheel being picked up and rolled, 136 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:46.480 and then culverts and I worked with culverts, you know, twenty foot long 137 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:50.960 culverts being literally picked up and carried them thrown into you know, a little 138 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:54.960 ravine or something. When I read that, it only took me two seconds 139 00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:58.559 to realize something real is going on. It didn't take me long to figure 140 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:03.200 out Bigfoot is real. Now. Did you ever have a chance to meet 141 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:07.759 Jerry Crew back in the day or did there never made the connection. No, 142 00:09:07.080 --> 00:09:11.679 it was some time before we even got into northern California and going up 143 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:15.559 to Go Road, hearing about the history of it and knowing that it was 144 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:18.159 the one of the local bands. I'm won't call him tried. The Indian 145 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:22.759 bands had actually stopped the Go Road from going into their sacred area. And 146 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:30.679 it was like a movie driving up this nice looked like freshly black asphalted road 147 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:35.559 and seeing the floors slowly en roach upon that road, and then parking and 148 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:41.320 then hiking in from there into a big burn area where we spent four or 149 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:43.759 five or six days. So I never met him, but I certainly had 150 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:48.080 become familiar with that country. Here more recently, I see, and you 151 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:52.039 were living out in Colorado at that time. You said, yeah, I 152 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:54.879 was in Colorado, and then we moved to Montana after that, and I 153 00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:58.759 carried on my research there. Now you've been back then, everybody was in 154 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:03.759 contact with snail mail and phone calls pretty much because that was the only those 155 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:07.080 are the only games in town. Do you remember being in contact with some 156 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:09.360 of those early researchers back of the day, and what were those interactions like? 157 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:13.240 Well, you know, obvious I'd probably forgotten more than I remember. 158 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:18.600 But Bob Tipmus, who really was a big figure. I think he might 159 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:20.679 have faded a bit now because he's died and as you know, he spent 160 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:24.240 a lot of his life as an ex page up in Harrison, Hot Springs, 161 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:28.559 close to John Green, and I visited him on several occasions on my 162 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:33.279 own and spent hours with him, and he told me some fabulous stories that 163 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:37.879 I'm sure he didn't tell anybody else. And he also gave me a cast 164 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:41.200 of his big foot that he had in northern California, and so I've got 165 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:45.639 that to this day. You gotta tell us some of those stories, Yeah, 166 00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:48.120 yeah, So can you tell us something that Bob told me? Because 167 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:52.320 unfortunately, Bob, to me is this figure that almost nobody knows about because 168 00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:56.600 the new generation of bigfooters came in with TV and YouTube and whatnot, and 169 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:01.440 Bob, mister Titmus, is just this figure that we're standing on his shoulders, 170 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:05.000 whether we realize it or not, you know. I mean, I'm 171 00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:07.440 lucky, Bob and I are lucky enough to realize it. But so many 172 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:09.519 people have no idea who he is. And part of that is because mister 173 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:15.080 Titmos never really wrote much down. He recorded things on the back of footprint 174 00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:18.360 casts in his beautiful, flowing cursive script, but he never wrote a book. 175 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:22.440 He didn't do very many interviews he didn't really seek attention at all. 176 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:28.320 So Bob is this kind of elusive, mysterious figure in the history of Bigfoot 177 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.679 which we all need to tip our hats to. Sony. Anything you can 178 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:35.159 share with us in our audience about Bob Titmos would be very much appreciated. 179 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:39.360 No, I think, I sure can I give you some insight into him. 180 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:43.799 I really admire that guy, no end. He was small and wiry, 181 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:46.799 tougher than hell. Again, an next American who ended up working for 182 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:52.240 the Canadian government, I think on a wildlife officer capacity. And he spent 183 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:58.039 a lot of times applying the inner the inner passage from here to Alashka in 184 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:03.440 a sailboat than other things. And he got hurt when he was dragging his 185 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:09.399 boat sailboat onto a beach with an Indian friend and trying to get that boat 186 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:15.440 off of the beach. He badly sprained or injured his back, and from 187 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:18.759 then on until he died, he was in constant pain. And he tried 188 00:12:18.759 --> 00:12:22.639 to be civil when he was there and would just overcome him. But he 189 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:28.120 did his best, and he's traveled, he's had some amazing things happened to 190 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:31.480 him. In northern California, and then we took him on his last trip 191 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:35.559 to British Columbia. Told us about that a little bit. Well, you 192 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:39.120 know, he's spent a lot of time in northern California, and I'll start 193 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:43.679 with that one. And his story there where he got the foot cast was 194 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:46.480 he would buy himself with a dog. And we met him there on one 195 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:52.759 occasion, and that he had by himself traveled up what was then a dry 196 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:58.039 river bed and evening caught up with him, and rather than go back, 197 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:03.639 he laid down in the river bed and covered himself with branches and sticks and 198 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:07.840 things like that to keep a little warm. And upstream from there, up 199 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:13.360 dry river. From there, he heard these heavy footsteps and they came toward 200 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:18.000 him, back back and forth away from him and toward him on one side 201 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:22.320 of the river. And he could hear that going on all night long. 202 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:26.240 And anyway, he got up the next morning and he came out. But 203 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:31.120 that's the kind of guy that he is. He nothing scared of the guy. 204 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:33.720 He was absolutely amazing. And he spent a lot of time but John 205 00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:39.440 Green, since John Green only lived about a five or ten minute drive away 206 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:43.519 from him, and so they became good companions over the years, So that's 207 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:46.240 how I met him. He told me a lot of stories again that he 208 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:48.840 hasn't told anybody else, I think. And then we took him on his 209 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:54.639 last trip. A friend and I a guy who had a little like a 210 00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:58.240 little fishing boat. We drove up there and met him who we were towing 211 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:03.440 the boat behind us, and we took him up to Bella Coula. Now 212 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:05.600 you have to go to William's Lake from where he lives, which is maybe 213 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:09.799 a four hour drive, and then from there about two hundred and seventy five 214 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:16.080 miles of road into Bellacula. And so we let him drive for a while. 215 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:20.320 But I was never so happy in my life to get him up from 216 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:26.159 behind the driver's seat. He was a white knuckle driver, Well he said, 217 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:28.399 a white knuckle driver. He had white knuckles. Are you guys did 218 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:31.480 hanging on? Well, I mean he would. He drove like a maniac. 219 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:35.919 He was a fast driver, took corners fast, and we were very 220 00:14:35.960 --> 00:14:39.039 concerned about getting there alive. He seemed to have a real man. He 221 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:43.759 was a real man, a mission guy. And so we drove in and 222 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:48.200 then we took this boat. We spent prebbe close to a week he took 223 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:54.320 us back to the white bear, their Caramodi you've heard about up there on 224 00:14:54.559 --> 00:15:00.559 Prince of don't say Prince of Wales Island where he actually saw the white bear. 225 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:05.039 He put up a trap for a big hunter in order to catch the 226 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:11.120 bear, and he never caught it. But while we were up there, 227 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:16.200 on two occasions, I saw the white bear their commode up on the interior 228 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:18.639 of the island, and we were just fortunate at the time we were there 229 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:22.720 to have them walking along one of the beaches, and so I saw the 230 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:28.279 Camodi. There's so many people had been looking for had never seen. And 231 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.679 we saw him a day later in another area right up along right up at 232 00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:35.720 this island up there as well. So they're not there's not much known about 233 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:41.480 them, but they're called their Caramodi and their primarily we think a white phase 234 00:15:41.799 --> 00:15:46.279 of the black bear. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and 235 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:56.559 Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages. I don't know if you 236 00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:58.679 knew Bob Titmus for long enough. I don't know when these two first cross 237 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:03.919 paths. But do you have any idea the scope of the evidence that he 238 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:07.200 lost in the boat fire. No, I don't. I don't know of 239 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:14.559 that other than his stories about being on a boat up in northern Alaska and 240 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.080 coming around a band and literally seeing a big foot on the shore, and 241 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:22.159 I think that was the first time he'd seen one, and from then on, 242 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:25.440 you know, he was hooked. So I don't know how much he 243 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:30.039 lost from the fire. I just know from talking to him the knowledge he 244 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:34.320 has and some of the places he went in his search for the big Foot, 245 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:40.039 including northern California and the Blue Mountains as you know, down in the 246 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:44.399 southeast Washington. Yeah. I have a number of photographs from Paul Freeman's photo 247 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:48.120 album that was that were shared with me from both Michael Freeman and the Freeman 248 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:52.759 family and also doctor Jeff Meldrum who was given a photo album by mister Freeman, 249 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:56.960 and there's lots of pictures in there of Bob Titmus, which which is 250 00:16:57.159 --> 00:17:02.200 really great. Well, you know, and a little a side note is 251 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:06.599 that his son just called me recently and I don't know if he knew I'd 252 00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:10.960 made a wax cast of a little bust of a big foot. Yes, 253 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:12.400 I'm very aware of that. I was talking to Michael about it. Actually 254 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:15.279 great work. By the way, I want to hear some titness stories, 255 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:19.440 like a secret, like something no one's heard. That's a cool Bob Tennis. 256 00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:22.680 Well, one of the fascinating ones is, you know, being a 257 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:27.799 geographer, I collected a lot of maps of coastal British Columbia that the Dart 258 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:33.039 equivalent of the Department of the Interior put out, and it's very much like 259 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:37.720 our USGS maps. And I got tons of those inaitions them together and made 260 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.000 marks on things that had happened up there. And one of them dealt with 261 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:45.319 two things dealt with Bob talking to an Indian band and then going into the 262 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:49.279 interior not far from where they were. And it was a hot summer day 263 00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:52.680 and he'd hiked up to this He and his dog had gone up on this 264 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:55.680 river and there was a big bluff and it was hot, and so he 265 00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:57.759 heated his dog with behind this bluff resting in the shade. Have you heard 266 00:17:57.799 --> 00:18:03.960 this one, No, it's coincidentally. He looks up and there were three 267 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:07.839 bigfoot a good distance away from him, and they were climbing this sheer cliff 268 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:11.960 wall. This description was that the hair was kind of honey like and sort 269 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:15.960 of golden and waving in the wind. And he watchs them for fifteen or 270 00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:22.400 twenty minutes climb this sheer cliff wall. And his description is being so much 271 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:26.279 larger than us and having a reach probably twice that of ours. They were 272 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:30.880 able to negotiate an area that normally humanly we would have had trouble doing or 273 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:33.640 couldn't do it all. And how they would reach up with their hand and 274 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:38.799 find some small protuberance, a rock or a piece of vegetation, grab onto 275 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:44.440 it, lift their foot up, and then with we were not not only 276 00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:48.079 even all the toes, but they would find another little ledge and generally it 277 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:51.880 was a three toes. If we could tell there'd be some extra toes, 278 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:56.119 they would support their entire weight on those three toes and then continue to climb 279 00:18:56.200 --> 00:19:00.960 that way, little by little until reached the top of the cliff. And 280 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:04.880 that was three of them that did that. And he and his dog witnessed 281 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:08.160 that. And I've I've got that norton my map. I want to see 282 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:12.480 that. And the only other story can Tanka. We're down in northern California 283 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:17.720 where he found with a bigfoot, you know, had thrown rocks out of 284 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:19.839 the way, you know, looking for ground squirrels, and we know, 285 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:23.079 you know, you all know about that sort of thing going on, and 286 00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:27.839 then putting out a stories of knocks, sometimes very intricate, sometimes long, 287 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:33.319 and having him answer him exactly. And you've heard of that too, how 288 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:38.440 they're able to instantly play back what you've done, recorded what you said, 289 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:45.079 or a rock cadence that they're able to pick up and repeat exactly just as 290 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:49.519 you have. And so evidently for quite some time he and the Bigfoot carried 291 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:57.359 on this little cross communication with rocks. And gosh, there's there's other stories 292 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:00.200 too, I'll have to think about them, but there was the one to 293 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:03.880 stand out that Bob. Bob told me well that that is one of the 294 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:07.759 things that he should be credited with, is he's the first person to ever 295 00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:15.640 write about sasquatches doing knocks of any sort. And it might maybe there's an 296 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:21.519 earlier script somewhere, but the first inkling that any of us had was written 297 00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:26.160 up in the Bay Area Group newsletter where Bob Timas wrote in and said, 298 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:29.279 yeah, for all the world I was, I'm tracking this thing and Bluff 299 00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:33.079 Creek and it sounds like it's hitting a log against another log, and he's 300 00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:37.279 the first person ever record that in writing. Whether other people knew it, 301 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:41.680 I'm certainly indigenous people probably knew about that sort of stuff, but he was 302 00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:44.880 the first person to ever write that down and record it for people. So 303 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:49.000 he gets that credit that he kind of is the guy that should be credited 304 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:53.480 with the individual at least that should be credited with discovering about wood dogs. 305 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.480 So and as you know, he worked out from what I know, most 306 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:02.079 exclusively by himself, he and his dog. It wasn't anybody else there to 307 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:04.359 witness what went on when Bob was out in the field. And as you 308 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:07.400 know, we spent went for twice down in the Blue Mountains and you know 309 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:12.400 d Duck Spring, and I've spent time up there and camped a couple of 310 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:17.240 nights at d Duck and other areas in the Blue Mountains. And as I 311 00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:21.960 mentioned to you, Jeff Meldram, John Manzinsky, Drek Randall and I spent 312 00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:27.000 several days and nights up in the Blue Mountains here several years ago. I 313 00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:33.079 was fortunate to be with them and we found a bed what had been a 314 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:36.200 winter bed, probably built on top of the snow and then just sunk down. 315 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:38.880 Of course because of weight, and I think I've got movies of that 316 00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:44.759 as well. So I was fortunate at being able to go in with them 317 00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:48.119 and spend some time in the Blue Mountains. I was just in the Blue 318 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:51.880 Mountains last weekend, actually, So yeah. The aggravating thing is that I 319 00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:53.400 got home and I went back to work because I, you know, I 320 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:57.759 have that Bigfoot museum. And I took a sighting report yesterday over the phone, 321 00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:03.000 and an elderly gentleman up in Washington somewhere wanted to share his stuff with 322 00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:07.720 it. Before you know, he left with it, basically, and I 323 00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:11.440 opened my our sighting report book and there's a blank siding report page with a 324 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:15.000 phone number and a name and whatever else, and say call this guy. 325 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:18.160 And it was from the July thirty first, and it's so aggravating to me. 326 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:21.799 So July thirty first, right, which is a few days before I 327 00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:23.440 left for the Blue Mountains. I think I was up there on the fourteenth 328 00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:26.519 or something like that. And I remember and so and I said, what's 329 00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:29.920 this about. It goes, oh, this guy saw a Sasquatch over by 330 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:33.480 toll Gate somewhere from like fifteen feet away, Oh, by toll Gate on 331 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:36.119 the Highway twenties sixties. No, No, somewhere in eastern Oregon. I 332 00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:37.400 think, dude, I was there like three days. I was there like 333 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:41.720 a week ago, Like why didn't you? And no one followed up with 334 00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:44.720 this guy? No one didn't any think. Oh, I was so because 335 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:48.240 we spend days driving around just looking for water where wildlife would be, but 336 00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:52.559 we, of course didn't find any. And had I known where a sighting 337 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:56.039 had occurred, like two weeks before, I would have focused my efforts there, 338 00:22:56.119 --> 00:22:57.839 But unfortunately I didn't come to my ears. Well, I mean, 339 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:00.680 you know, as well, hardly any water in that high country, as 340 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:04.640 you know very well up there springs, isolated areas like that, And of 341 00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:08.119 course d Duck was unique because you know, it's been amplified, made into 342 00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:12.279 a little pond, and it makes sense that bigfoot like any other animal would 343 00:23:12.279 --> 00:23:15.960 come and visit that site and leave hand prints and things like that. So 344 00:23:17.920 --> 00:23:19.599 d Duck Spring is a pretty a pretty neat area. And do you know 345 00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:25.359 how it got the name d Duck. No. West Summerland, who I 346 00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:27.960 spent some time with, and he took us out in the field, and 347 00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:33.240 that's when the Forest Service alerted me to West and all the things he had 348 00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:37.400 done, and his little wife Peewee. I spent several nights with him. 349 00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:41.200 But the US Forest Service would have forest crews up there, of course, 350 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:44.119 and they would do the work and then at the end of the week or 351 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.960 a month, whenever it was a pay period, they would all meet at 352 00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:52.079 d Duck Spring and at that point they had to deduct a certain amount from 353 00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:56.440 their paycheck, and Nashford got the term d Duck Spring. So there's a 354 00:23:56.480 --> 00:24:02.519 little history that I was fortunate to find out about. That's great. So 355 00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:07.200 it's tell us about I mean know, West Summerlind often gets overshadowed by Paul 356 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:10.119 Freeman, when actually they were just partners in a lot of ways. There 357 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:14.400 was no competition or anything between them. They're just partners and they both deserve 358 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:17.880 so much credit for everything that went on in the Blue Mountains for that time 359 00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:22.400 period and even before eighty two when Paul saw one and he started his big 360 00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:25.880 Foot journey. And tell us a little bit about West Summerlin if you would. 361 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:29.640 Well. West is a hard baked little half Indian guy. You know, 362 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:33.000 spent some time in the rodeo and doing a lot of guiding in the 363 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:37.799 Blue mountains, and when we were up there, we found quite a few 364 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:41.279 camps that are now abandoned, you know where I think, among others, 365 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:42.960 I'm not sure if he stayed and some of those. So I know he's 366 00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:48.160 spent a lot of time guiding. He also had a pretty significant UFO experience, 367 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:51.400 and maybe I don't know what I everybody knows about that. But West 368 00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:55.559 would go up and take a string of horses with him, and he had 369 00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:59.759 names for the big foot up there, and I'm trying to remember a lot 370 00:24:59.799 --> 00:25:06.400 of detail, but he described him physically watching him, as seeing them the 371 00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:10.319 size of the by steps on this particular individual, and he but he got 372 00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:14.960 to know them, his individuals up there. And on one occasion, his 373 00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:18.200 horses were up there and they were tied up for the night, and something 374 00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:21.359 came up and broke the halters. I mean they just pulled him apart, 375 00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:25.640 pulled the rope apart. So he told me that story. He also told 376 00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:27.920 me, I though it sounds pretty far fetched, to during the hunting season, 377 00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:33.799 he heard some gunshots going on and a few moments later, a big 378 00:25:33.799 --> 00:25:37.240 foot came running down this hill and it had been shot in the chest, 379 00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:41.599 and it was blood from the chest. It ran down to a stream and 380 00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:45.400 he could hear it down there and evidently it was slapping water on mud on 381 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:51.240 its chest to I guess, you know, overcome the pain and the chest 382 00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:53.599 and get some cold water on it. So that was an amazing story that 383 00:25:55.039 --> 00:26:00.200 never heard. Yeah that West West told me he had some hair samples he 384 00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:03.200 found. If you'd been in West's house, we spent the night there. 385 00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:10.839 What a character. He didn't have any walls in the room. He and 386 00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:14.519 pe we spent the night in a bed and it was just opened to everybody. 387 00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:18.680 He must not have too many guests there. He said he felt fenced 388 00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:23.920 in because he loved the outdoors, and so he felt better when he was 389 00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:26.240 in a big open space. And so you look in this room and here 390 00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:30.160 you see, you see the refergerator, you see a stove, You see 391 00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:33.680 his living room, and then you see the bedroom and that's where he and 392 00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:36.400 then you had a big foot there, and on that big foot that he 393 00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:38.359 had made a poster. He had various things in there, and one of 394 00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:42.119 them was a hair sample which he gave to me. He found that up 395 00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:48.319 on the Tiger Mountain road. He knew that road. Yeah, yeah, 396 00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:51.400 that's a windy road. I've spent time up there. And of course you 397 00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:53.720 can reach the Duck Spring by going up Tiger Mountain, and there's a spot 398 00:26:53.799 --> 00:26:59.839 up there as you're maybe more than halfway for there's a little pass in there, 399 00:27:00.440 --> 00:27:03.640 and of course it would be on the left hand side, and you 400 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:07.359 can walk into this little pass, climb this little ten foot press and Putson 401 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:12.720 walk into this pass. At the time, I think Cramps had gone up 402 00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:15.319 there and they'd gone in there. And I found it where they had made 403 00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:21.559 cast bigfoot tracks along this little stream area, and it went on for a 404 00:27:21.559 --> 00:27:23.880 good half a mile and I could see tree breaks eight or nine feet up 405 00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:29.839 off off this trail, and then the remnants of the cast. What did 406 00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:33.759 West teach you about the tree breaks and tree structures well, other than the 407 00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:37.319 fact that he thought they were territorial markers, the fact the thing to look 408 00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:41.519 for a course would be were they twisted. It doesn't mean big foot, 409 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.160 but always twist them. But one of the characteristics, as you know over 410 00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:48.000 the years, is despite the size, would be the height off the ground. 411 00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:51.160 You know they can reach up to ten feet or more. And so 412 00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:55.799 if this is at the nine foot level and you find them consistently, and 413 00:27:55.839 --> 00:28:00.200 they're supposed to point in the direction of traveled often and don't be twisted around 414 00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:04.839 and around several times. That was what West told me. And that's where 415 00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:07.880 he found these hair samples, was up in the crotch of one of these 416 00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:12.400 twists, and he gave it to me and I had it analyzed by the 417 00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:17.920 Skeptical Inquirer. They didn't pay me, but they have a little article on 418 00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:19.680 me, you know, happy showing a footprint, you know, the typical 419 00:28:19.720 --> 00:28:23.279 thing. And they sent it back to me with a lab analysis and it 420 00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:27.960 came back one as unknown, but also came back as being very human, 421 00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:33.400 and believe it or not, as being subject to quite a bit of weathering. 422 00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:36.880 Well, that's interesting. This must have been in the late nineteen eighties, 423 00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:38.880 if I had to guess, is that were correct? Yeah, that 424 00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:42.240 sounds about right, of course. The telling thing there was the idea of 425 00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:45.359 it being weathered when you were working in the Blues and you you were, 426 00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:49.400 you know, hanging out with West and those people and the Blue Mountain Gang. 427 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:52.960 That you ever spend any time with Bill Lowry, because I find him 428 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:56.680 to be like another Bob Titmus figure that doesn't really get the credit he deserves 429 00:28:56.720 --> 00:29:00.200 because he was so flying under the radar at the time. So did you 430 00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:03.920 ever have a chance to meet with mister Lowry? Well, I did, 431 00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:07.480 and as back to West and second said, yeah, he did fill the 432 00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:11.119 eclips by Paul. I mean we talked about this that you know, West 433 00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:14.119 reserved for some time. He was kind of known locally, you know, 434 00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:17.440 as a big foot go to person. Paul comes in and then they started 435 00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:22.359 having public get together as in the mall. Maybe you knew about that. 436 00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:25.119 I did. Yeah, I know dar Addington very well and she's told me 437 00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:27.039 a lot about those stories. Yeah. I felt badly for West because I 438 00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:30.759 think it was kind of sidelined, you know, even kind of a different 439 00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:33.200 character. He was very colorful, but I think he felt a bit outclassed 440 00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:37.039 by, you know, by Paul, and I think he didn't have as 441 00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:41.359 much of a chance to interact with the public as he would have liked to 442 00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:44.960 if Paul hadn't been there. Yeah, and of course Paul got those two 443 00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:48.160 pieces of footage of sasquatches as well. And you know, visual components go 444 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:53.319 so far with the public nowadays, it seems so Yeah, they're basically basic 445 00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:56.359 entertainment. Of course, Paul did very well with that. As far as 446 00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:02.240 Lowry goes, I never met him. I just and I respected him because, 447 00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:06.039 as I remember, he was a warden or a law enforcement officer as 448 00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:08.480 well. He's like some biologists. I guess he's either a warden or some 449 00:30:08.599 --> 00:30:12.839 official in the in the Wildlife department in Washington there. And so the things 450 00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:17.160 he's mentioned to me was or I talked to him on the phone was something 451 00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:21.640 about actually seeing one and he was flabbergassed at the sheer size of him. 452 00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:25.079 He just said, you would not believe how big these are, he said, 453 00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:26.880 I never would have imagined that they would have been a huge when I 454 00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:33.319 saw them. He was blown away by their sheer size. Stay tuned for 455 00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:37.920 more Bigfoot and Beyond with Clifton Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages. 456 00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:45.799 So we've we've spoken a lot about a lot of a lot of the 457 00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:48.880 historical thing or some of them, not even a lot, actually just barely 458 00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:52.559 the tip of the iceberg, about the historical figures and things that you've been 459 00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:57.200 involved in, but you are continuing your research to this day. Tell us 460 00:30:57.200 --> 00:31:02.599 about some of the more interesting things that you've been able to encounter or hear 461 00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:04.640 or see. I'm like, have you ever seen a sasquatch, for example, 462 00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:08.119 like in the last thirty years or so, because my first exposure to 463 00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:11.799 you was at that Bellingham conference back in what was that two thousand and four 464 00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:15.079 or five or something like that, and I know that you just had gotten 465 00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:19.160 those amazing vocalizations that I still think stand is some of the best vocalizations out 466 00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:23.519 there at the time, and that's what you spoke about there. But certainly 467 00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:26.759 you've seen so much, So tell us best about the highlights of the last 468 00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:30.720 few decades. If you did. Yeah, sure, well, I'll just 469 00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.759 say I've never seen one, and I don't know if that's what I call 470 00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:36.240 the icing on the cake. It'd be nice to say I did. That 471 00:31:36.279 --> 00:31:41.480 doesn't prove a lot to me anybody. And you know, you may say 472 00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:45.200 when maybe you don't see one stopping at night. People have fleeting glimpses of 473 00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:48.480 what they think they see, and then as you know, they'll fantasize about 474 00:31:48.519 --> 00:31:52.519 it. Sometimes they won't talk about it for months for years because it's out 475 00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:56.200 of their comfort zone, and so by that time maybe they don't remember as 476 00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:59.000 much. There's no doubt there's been tons of sightings we know of that, 477 00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:05.319 but all the stuff I've seen from bigfoot poopy to the tracks as you know 478 00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:10.039 I mentioned it, to twisted vegetation, to rock structures and stick structures, 479 00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:15.480 all the calls the one coming up to the tap here a couple of weeks 480 00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:20.039 ago. There's absolutely no doubt about their bigfoot existing. And you know, 481 00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:23.319 I hope they never catch it. So if I see one, I'll be 482 00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:27.359 happy. If I don't, I'll probably be just as happy. I've come 483 00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:31.240 within twenty feet of seeing one, just because up at Bumping, Paul and 484 00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:36.640 ever going one direction, and a guy came up from Texas Camp and it 485 00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:39.119 was at a place for bigfoot crosses, and maybe you know of that spot 486 00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:44.440 of bumping up along the main road just a couple hundred feet what would that 487 00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:49.759 be south of Texas Camp, California camp up there, and there's actually a 488 00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:52.079 little place in the woods you can look down and see a tunnel, and 489 00:32:52.119 --> 00:32:58.119 evidently that's where the bigfoot crosses. And that particular evening as we are, 490 00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:01.839 Paul, they went beyond it. A fellow came around the corner out of 491 00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:07.880 the camp and later told us, well, a big foot just crossed behind 492 00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:10.599 you and as you know, what they'll do, they'll wait until people go 493 00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:14.799 beyond them. And he caught him by surprise when he walked out and he 494 00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:17.839 saw the big foot. So yeah, I've been close to it. I've 495 00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:22.599 never seen him, but the tracks I've found, some of the poop that 496 00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:27.839 I think was unusual I've found. Did you read that, Scott animalist at 497 00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:30.400 all? Well? Wait, wait, wait before you do what Scott, 498 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:31.920 I don't know anything about this. What are you what are you talking about? 499 00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:37.359 Well, I've found several over the over the years, you know, 500 00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:40.839 up in remote areas where I found one pile that was eighteen inches in diameter 501 00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:45.440 and probably at least a foot high up in the middle of nowhere. Bears, 502 00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:49.720 you know, I can have that pattern of eating somewhere, coming back 503 00:33:49.759 --> 00:33:52.079 and pooping, And as you know, at picking in a orchards, they'll 504 00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:57.000 go over and guzzle down stuff, hardly eating it. They'll come back and 505 00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:59.599 all of a sudden they got to take a crap and it's off and with 506 00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:01.480 a patter, and they'll go back to the same area. I've got one 507 00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:07.119 are where there's eight piles of poops around this tree and it was clearly a 508 00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:10.039 bear that did it. Some of them are huge, but this one is 509 00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:14.480 in the middle of forest, there's nobody around, and it clearly looked like 510 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:21.039 a single deposit, not multiple deposits. And it was literally the size of 511 00:34:21.079 --> 00:34:23.760 a huge dinner plate and eighteen ins of I'm guessing, and probably a foot 512 00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:30.119 high. So we found that back in the middle of nowhere. How much 513 00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:31.960 did you pack out? If you had, what'd you put it in? 514 00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:35.800 I'll be honest at that point, I didn't pack any of it out. 515 00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:38.719 But the second time I've got it in my freezer, I'm sure by now 516 00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:44.440 it is long dead from freezer burn. But I'll put this very remote lake 517 00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:49.440 off of the Pacific Crest Trail for Paul and I go. It's about a 518 00:34:49.480 --> 00:34:52.840 seven and a half mile hike in and the last a beast hour and a 519 00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:55.639 half it's completely off the trail. A hundred came running out of the years 520 00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:59.719 ago. We said he couldn't take it anymore. And we have been back 521 00:34:59.719 --> 00:35:04.519 in the three times, and I've got two recording sessions where they come into 522 00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:08.239 camp at least twelve times and one night and it just showed up on my 523 00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:12.840 tape recorder and you can hear them coming in, you can hear them slap 524 00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:15.119 my tent, and you can hear them leave. That goes on for twelve 525 00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:22.480 times, at least in one night. I'm sure they're juveniles, probably not 526 00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:24.760 that grown ups, probably are watching them out of the forest. Probably be 527 00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:30.039 juveniles just having fun. I didn't listen to that tape for two years thinking 528 00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:34.800 nothing happened. So there's a lesson to be learned there. When I listened 529 00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:37.199 to it, I was just blown away. Within twenty minutes, I was 530 00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:42.639 hitting the snack. As you know, as soon as they hear deep sleeping, 531 00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:46.320 they'll come in, not before that time often, And so you could 532 00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:49.639 spend a week up there and think it was most of a wrang time in 533 00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:53.320 the world, not knowing you had been entertained up there, maybe several nights 534 00:35:53.320 --> 00:36:00.280 in a row, and kind of unsatisfying, but very revealing about bigfoot behave 535 00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:04.280 here. Oh about the poopy well up at this lake. I was up 536 00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:07.800 higher coming back to the lake, and I found this pile of scat. 537 00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:10.880 Now it wasn't huge, but it was probably maybe it's a foot long. 538 00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:16.400 It was gray, kind of a gelatinous, quite gray material looking terry like 539 00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:20.559 vegetation. I have no idea what it was composed of. I didn't find 540 00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:24.639 any animal matter in it. It looked like tutsie rolls. They had been 541 00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:30.199 broken, and they were in a perfect line, like it was stacked Howardwood. 542 00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:35.239 They all a straight line, none of them overlapped each other. They 543 00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:42.519 were stacked like potsie rolls, and they all were stacked evenly. I've never 544 00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:45.719 seen that. I brought it home, talked to several bear experts. We 545 00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:49.199 talked about wolf, we talked about bear. Oh, we knew it wasn't 546 00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:55.559 elk. They they had no answer for what I had found. So I 547 00:36:55.599 --> 00:37:00.239 don't know what it is. I found the same thing up at at this 548 00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:02.920 particular lake I mentioned Eastern Monroe. I found these out the same kind of 549 00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:08.880 a bunch of poop on the road in two places. So I got it 550 00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:14.559 here by this time. I don't know who could analyze it, but so 551 00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:17.199 I still got that. Well there you know about the DNA study with Darby 552 00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:21.440 or cut through the North Carolina University. Right, that's free. All you 553 00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:22.800 have to do is fill out up thing online and send it to them and 554 00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:28.280 they will get back to you guaranteed. This is the first university sponsored one 555 00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:32.039 ever, and they guarantee you will get the results back and with whatever it 556 00:37:32.119 --> 00:37:36.280 is. They're not looking for bigfoot stuff, even though they kind of are. 557 00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:37.920 We had Darby on as I yes a few weeks ago. They're looking 558 00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:44.159 at unknown samples in an effort to identify what they are. You know, 559 00:37:44.199 --> 00:37:46.239 and that's that's even better. That's a perfect setup. You don't want someone 560 00:37:46.280 --> 00:37:50.280 who's got a big foot by us, as you will know. And some 561 00:37:50.360 --> 00:37:53.000 of the most fascinating books I've read had nothing to do with their interest in 562 00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:57.199 bigfoot, but just by the way things that happened to them. So I 563 00:37:57.239 --> 00:38:00.239 would trust those people more than somebody with a preaching notion of what they're getting. 564 00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:04.719 I'll talk to Paul because we've got quite a few hair samples. I've 565 00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:09.159 got the scatch sample, and I would love to send it to them. 566 00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:14.920 It's free. It's absolutely free and university sponsored. And I encourage anybody, 567 00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:17.920 especially you, because who have a backlog of samples, who has a backlog, 568 00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:22.880 to send stuff to them, because they're raring to go and they're waiting 569 00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:27.559 for samples to work on. Well, you just send me the information and 570 00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:31.440 I'll be happy to We will do that now the other sideline, I have 571 00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:37.320 one thing lead another. But speaking of museums in general, and includes museums 572 00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:45.480 in India, museums here in other places, who are sent remains of primates. 573 00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:47.199 In some cases up in India, as you know, they sent to 574 00:38:47.559 --> 00:38:53.719 remains of what clearly had been a YETI to a museum there and they never 575 00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:59.719 heard anything again. Now I'm telling people this, you can go up and 576 00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:02.920 beat the wood forever. Go look in the dusty halls or the museum, 577 00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:07.960 go to the basement if they'll let you. And I think we're going to 578 00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:13.880 find a wealth of evidence on what we're looking for in these museums. They 579 00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:16.599 get things that they're unclassified then what they are. They may know what they 580 00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:21.559 are, and they simply lead them down there because they don't have a rational 581 00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:24.719 explanation for them. And if they'll let you in, I think you could 582 00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:30.280 get a wealth of information that would help us a lot. Stay tuned for 583 00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:35.360 more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right back after these 584 00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:45.320 messages. So, John, you've brought a number of audio recordings to the 585 00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:47.480 podcast here to share with our listeners. Yeah, I've been in contact with 586 00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:51.559 your partner, Paul. Paul Graci has been a guest on our show before, 587 00:39:52.199 --> 00:39:54.199 and he was telling me he was so excited about these recordings you got 588 00:39:55.480 --> 00:39:59.679 that you just got like a couple of weeks ago from Wenacci National Forest. 589 00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:02.199 Can you tell us about that? We'll play that well. We went to 590 00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:06.840 this spot that had a long history of stuff going on. We camped out 591 00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:09.920 within twenty feet of a road that goes through there. We were there for 592 00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:14.559 a day and a half and only two cars drove by an entire time, 593 00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:20.199 showing you how remote it is or how unused it is. We got cozy 594 00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:22.840 in our sleeping bags, and the next thing we know, we hear there's 595 00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:25.599 big, huge rocks just outside of our tent. Paul and I wake up 596 00:40:25.639 --> 00:40:29.599 and sleepily say to each other, oh man, did you hear that? 597 00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:31.719 Oh yeah, what do you suppose it was? By? Blah blah blah 598 00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:36.320 blah. We went back to bed. We woke up knowing nothing else but 599 00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:40.519 that. I took my tape recorder home and gee whiz, I started playing 600 00:40:40.599 --> 00:40:45.719 it and within about half an hour before all that took place, you can 601 00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:49.760 hear this boom boom boom, boom, boom boom, boom boom, boom 602 00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:52.880 boom, right up to our tent. Right up to our tent. We 603 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:55.360 have a lot of rocks and pine cones or something being thrown at our tent 604 00:40:55.920 --> 00:41:00.440 during the time we were there. You can hear him clunk plunk hitting our 605 00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:05.920 tent during and after the big stomping goes on, and then you can hear 606 00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:09.639 a big moving noise outside of the tent. Uh. And that's when we 607 00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:15.199 woke up. And so that would be the one when they're coming into camp. 608 00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:59.360 M M. So that was the first thing that happened, and then 609 00:41:59.480 --> 00:42:01.679 sometimes during the night. And now Paul tells me he has two more of 610 00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:07.519 those long calls. Are they call in a distance that David Ellis brought up 611 00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:12.400 and amplified and it's been looped three times? And so I guess that's the 612 00:42:12.519 --> 00:42:15.639 next one you have. Okay, so these are these will be three the 613 00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:20.239 same call looped three different times by Dave Ellis, Like he's the guy who 614 00:42:20.360 --> 00:42:22.800 analyzed it and made it loop. But this was recorded the same night as 615 00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:27.199 the previous recording we just heard. Yeah, yeah, right, okay, 616 00:42:27.400 --> 00:42:57.280 very good. Let's let's sake a listen. Yeah, no question about that 617 00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:00.239 one. Then yeah, I think it's it's very good, and we might 618 00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:04.679 have some more to add to that. David Ellis told me it's one of 619 00:43:04.760 --> 00:43:08.239 the more interesting recordings he has because he said there's so much going on. 620 00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:13.960 He thinks there's a language it's being spoken in there. We have the growls. 621 00:43:14.679 --> 00:43:19.920 He thinks at one point it's imitating my snoring sounds that I heard, 622 00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:23.400 and they were much deeper and lower, So they're imitating me while I'm snoring, 623 00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:28.880 and then when I'm turning back and forth having a rough night of it, 624 00:43:29.199 --> 00:43:30.800 that they're taking advantage of that and making a lot of noise in the 625 00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:37.880 background. So he's got a ton of things going on during that particular evening 626 00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:43.119 when and Paul and are concerned by the way about going back up there because 627 00:43:43.159 --> 00:43:45.639 a lady disappeared. I guess we talked. Maybe he talked about that. 628 00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:50.599 No, Yeah, this is a scary part about There was a lady from 629 00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:53.360 the University of Washington, an older lady. Gosh, she pries my age 630 00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:58.199 makes her ancient, right, So she's up there and this has been several 631 00:43:58.280 --> 00:44:01.559 years ago, and she parked right across where we spent the night and she 632 00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:07.480 was out. I think in the fall picking mushrooms, and she knew there. 633 00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:09.320 If she'd been up there, she wasn't a stranger to the outdoors. 634 00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:15.880 She disappeared without a trace and then never found her, and Paul was involved 635 00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:22.199 in the man hunt for her. The dogs traced her to a certain area 636 00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:28.000 short distance away, and they lost it and nothing was found. There was 637 00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:30.320 no indications of a struggle, no blood, no call marks, and nothing. 638 00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:37.280 She just simply vanished. And so when we hear those aggressive sounds come 639 00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:39.679 up to our car, up to our tamp, we're just kind of wondering 640 00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:43.800 kind of what we're doing there, you know. Yeah, Paul told me 641 00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:45.400 he won't go He says he's going there twenty years by himself, like no 642 00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:50.599 words, he said, now he will not go there alone anymore. Yeah, 643 00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:53.679 No, we both agreed that were and I think i'd recommend everybody, 644 00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:57.559 of course, never go by herself. I used to go a lot by 645 00:44:57.639 --> 00:45:01.039 myself when I was ignorant. Getting older now and I've had a good life. 646 00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:02.800 If it ends, and you know, I had a lot happen, 647 00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:07.719 but I don't want it to end that way. And we know there's been 648 00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:12.119 things are going on in the peninsula I've got stories about another one, as 649 00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:15.199 you know, about up at the border of Canada, a horrible thing that 650 00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:20.920 happened up there with a sasquatch. Yeah outliers, Yeah yeah. Why don't 651 00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:22.880 we save that for the members section because I'd like to hear about those stories 652 00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:27.480 because I'm advocate. I'm an advocate, and I've tried to say this as 653 00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:30.760 much as possible that these are not your forest friends. These are not, 654 00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:36.599 you know, necessarily benign beings that are, you know, looking out for 655 00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:39.920 the good of humanity from you know, the the overseers in the sky, 656 00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:44.800 you know, as they're often painted by various people in the Bigfoot community. 657 00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:47.119 These are wild animals and perhaps and I don't think they're aout the gid us. 658 00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:51.519 I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that they're they are they're evil 659 00:45:51.639 --> 00:45:54.760 monsters and devils trying to get it. They are potentially very dangerous. They 660 00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:59.480 are wild animals that are very humanlike in a lot of ways, which might 661 00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:02.639 make them more dangerous in some ways. I don't think they're out to get 662 00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:06.639 us, and as evidence, I always say, look around. If they 663 00:46:06.679 --> 00:46:09.079 were out to get us, there'd be very few of us left but I 664 00:46:09.159 --> 00:46:13.519 do think there are probably some bad apples out there and they should be treated 665 00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:17.199 with the respect that you would give something like say a brown bear something like 666 00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:22.480 that. And I would certainly agree. And the stories I have, which 667 00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:25.119 are brief, you know me, I don't elaborate a lot, but the 668 00:46:25.239 --> 00:46:30.760 two I know about repeating the public is hard for me because I don't want 669 00:46:30.760 --> 00:46:32.559 people to think every time they go out, they're going to disappear. And 670 00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:37.079 yet when you hear these stories, if I know the area of which I 671 00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:40.679 do know, I wouldn't go there period. You always bring a shark cage. 672 00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:45.320 Yeah, all right, you're in it, not them. You know 673 00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:50.280 exactly exactly who you're protected you well, number one, I guess. Well. 674 00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:52.639 The other thing is we have to recognize we know nothing about the calls 675 00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:58.880 we put out, at least mostly what are we saying to them. Number 676 00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:01.880 two is we may be very close to their heart land. They're going to 677 00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:05.880 be stretched out if we get too close to them. We know none of 678 00:47:05.920 --> 00:47:09.480 these things, and we can put ourself right in harms way, migration routes 679 00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:14.960 and things like that and not even know it. And so there's so much 680 00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:19.360 we don't know. We could put ourselves in harms away. Well, you 681 00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:22.679 know, well, let's let's let's perhaps maybe end this session and go onto 682 00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:24.679 the member session. You can we can hear about those stories and kind of 683 00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:29.360 compare notes with some of the other things that we've heard about sasquatches being less 684 00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:30.559 than friendly. All right, Well, John, thank you so much for 685 00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:34.119 coming on and spending the last hour with us. We're going to continue this 686 00:47:34.199 --> 00:47:37.159 conversation in our members section in just a few minutes and everybody can listen to 687 00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:39.400 that on Thursday. If you're a member, if you want to become a 688 00:47:39.480 --> 00:47:43.960 member, he can go to Big, Bigfoot and Beyond podcast dot com and 689 00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:45.960 hit the membership button and I'll tell you all about it. But in the 690 00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:50.440 meantime, thank you very much John for being on the podcast with us. 691 00:47:50.480 --> 00:47:53.480 We really do appreciate you sharing some of your experiences with us. Well, 692 00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:58.519 thank you very much, Bobo, Cliff and Matt. It was a long 693 00:47:58.599 --> 00:48:00.000 time getting on here, of those with it. It's been a couple of 694 00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:02.480 years. I've been trying to get you going, so yeah, thanks for 695 00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:05.840 showing up, John, I know, no, no, thank you so 696 00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:07.199 much for having me. Bobo. This has been nice training for me. 697 00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:13.199 All right, well, cool, folks. That's John Andrews from Washington State. 698 00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:16.880 He's got some ongoing stuff now. We're gonna hear more from him and 699 00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:20.480 Paul. They got some stuff they're working on. We'll be bringing him back 700 00:48:20.519 --> 00:48:23.079 on probably the next couple of months. But until then, you guys know 701 00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:31.559 what to do out there, y'all. Keep it squatchy. Thanks for listening 702 00:48:31.639 --> 00:48:36.480 to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, 703 00:48:36.519 --> 00:48:39.960 please rate and review us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever 704 00:48:40.039 --> 00:48:45.199 you get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and 705 00:48:45.400 --> 00:48:51.039 Beyond podcast. You can find us on Twitter at Bigfoot Beyond That's an End 706 00:48:51.159 --> 00:48:54.880 in the Middle, and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot 707 00:48:55.079 --> 00:49:04.039 and Beyond. The pole were as