1 00:00:16,839 --> 00:00:20,760 We're back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emilija Chinski, 2 00:00:20,839 --> 00:00:23,679 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show 3 00:00:23,719 --> 00:00:27,719 at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on Twitter at fdr LST. 4 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,839 Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts into the premium version of 5 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:36,719 our website. Today we're joined by one of the newest Federalist contributors. That 6 00:00:36,759 --> 00:00:40,039 would be the one and only Peachie Keenan. She is the author of the 7 00:00:40,079 --> 00:00:45,119 new book it is out on June sixth, Domestic Extremist, A Practical Guide 8 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:49,159 to Winning the Culture War. You can also follow Peachie's work over at Peachie 9 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,719 Keenan dot substock dot com. Peachi, Welcome to Federalist Radio Hour. Hey, 10 00:00:53,759 --> 00:00:57,439 Emily, it's my pleasure to be here. It's very funny referring to 11 00:00:57,439 --> 00:01:06,560 you as Peachi in conversation, because for those listeners who aren't on conservative Twitter, 12 00:01:06,879 --> 00:01:11,719 Peachie Keenan is obviously a pseudonym that you use for a variety of reasons. 13 00:01:11,799 --> 00:01:15,159 You write about those reasons in the book. I wanted to ask you 14 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,799 to talk a little bit here, so I think it's probably a very interesting 15 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,319 story. I know you can't get into too many details or specifics about why 16 00:01:23,439 --> 00:01:29,439 you are anonymous and why you sort of left your career, as you say, 17 00:01:29,519 --> 00:01:33,599 quote writing for corporate behemoths to do what you're doing now. Yeah, 18 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:38,400 I mean that is basically why I had to sort of adopt a pseudonym. 19 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,200 I first started like getting on Twitter, probably around Trump and the Trump era 20 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:47,959 twenty fifteen twenty sixteen. I just wanted a way to comment on politics and 21 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,599 express my opinions as a conservative woman, which you know you can't really do 22 00:01:52,359 --> 00:01:56,840 where I live in Los Angeles and plied company, and then I finally started 23 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,920 the Peachie keenan account in twenty nineteen. I wanted to have like a real 24 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,120 name just to it was just like a fun you know, kind of ironic, 25 00:02:05,159 --> 00:02:08,319 like everything's peachy keen when it wasn't. And at the time I was 26 00:02:08,879 --> 00:02:12,759 working for a very yeah, like you said, a very large, very 27 00:02:12,759 --> 00:02:19,240 well known entertainment media company in southern California. So for obvious reasons, you 28 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,599 know, expressing your opinions online, writing my articles for the American Mind, 29 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:28,960 which I started doing in twenty nineteen as peachem those would not have been very 30 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,639 well received at my day job because I had a full time day job and 31 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:38,000 I was writing for them and working with you know, people who they would 32 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,159 have stoned me on site. Okay, if they had like seen my Twitter 33 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,840 or knew knew how I felt about things, I would have been beheaded. 34 00:02:45,879 --> 00:02:47,360 They would have brought in a guillotine, like it would have been over for 35 00:02:47,439 --> 00:02:53,080 me. And so, you know, the anonymity is really protective. It's 36 00:02:53,159 --> 00:02:57,680 very cozy, and you feel like, you know, maybe you are not 37 00:02:57,719 --> 00:03:02,400 going to get docs or canceled immediately then uh, you know, right around 38 00:03:02,439 --> 00:03:07,360 the time the pandemic started, my work with that company basically ended. Because 39 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:12,879 of the pandemic, a large number of people's or the contracts were not renewed, 40 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,360 people were giant departments were laid off directly as a result of COVID, 41 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,680 and so that was sort of freeing. You know, it's a little scary 42 00:03:20,719 --> 00:03:23,039 to lose like the security of a day job, but it was also like 43 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:27,680 a great opportunity for me to just sort of double down, you know, 44 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,039 like all right, well now I'm now I'm peachy, and how far can 45 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,240 I take this thing? And very soon after that, you know, I 46 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,879 got a book deal, and things just sort of took off from there. 47 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,520 So now, you know, sometimes so when I wake up in the morning, 48 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,240 I have to kind of like blink my eyes a few times and remember, 49 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,520 like, oh, yeah, I'm Peachie keenid, Like what am I 50 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,759 going to say today? I get to wake up and be a domestic extremist 51 00:03:53,759 --> 00:03:57,639 again, that's right, that's right. Well, yeah, that's that is 52 00:03:57,639 --> 00:04:00,599 really interesting because to the extent that your story is representative of many others. 53 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,039 I mean, I think that's important to the book because that's sort of the 54 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:11,719 central thesis here, is that domestic extremism is not extremism, and it's it's 55 00:04:11,719 --> 00:04:15,039 in fact the norm. But I want to also ask before we get into 56 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,839 that about your conversion to Catholicism, because I have to imagine that was a 57 00:04:18,959 --> 00:04:23,439 really important part of your story. Of four kids, you're married, this 58 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,920 is all what makes you an extremist. But um, it's that's I think 59 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,439 that's particularly interesting in your timeline. You know, you start writing the stuff 60 00:04:31,439 --> 00:04:35,959 around twenty nineteen, pandemic comes, you have this moment of liberation. Um, 61 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:42,120 Ideologically, what has how has your how have your personal beliefs evolved? 62 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,040 How did your conversion to Catholicism and your faith sort of play into all of 63 00:04:46,079 --> 00:04:48,160 that. Yeah, I actually have more than four kids. Just want to 64 00:04:48,319 --> 00:04:53,160 fact check that for the record. Book. I know, I'm sure I'm 65 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:59,040 extremely domestic. Okay, I'm I'm in the big leagues. Um well, 66 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:00,160 yeah, I mean, like I saying the book, it's sort of it 67 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,959 is like there's a there's some memoir in the book about how you know, 68 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:10,920 my my quote unquote journey from like basic liberal, you know, uh democrat, 69 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,160 socially liberal, feminist. I was a pro choice, militant, um 70 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:20,360 secular atheist. I thought people who believed in religion were stupid where that was 71 00:05:20,439 --> 00:05:24,600 those are those that's the flyover people. I'm not. I'm this you know, 72 00:05:24,759 --> 00:05:29,279 smart coastal elitist. You know. I was a snob about it totally. 73 00:05:29,879 --> 00:05:32,839 Um, Like like all liberals in California and New York are today, 74 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:38,319 like they don't like people who believe in anything are just proves that there's they're 75 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:43,120 idiots. Um. But I slowly became a conservative basically right around nine to 76 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,600 eleven, I kind of, you know, the liberalism sort of fell from 77 00:05:46,639 --> 00:05:50,879 my eyes. Um. And then later on I became more socially conservative. 78 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:56,439 Um. I started dating my husband, he sort of kind of red pilled 79 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,560 me a little bit on things like abortion and gun control. I mean, 80 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,800 it's like the power of like the power of a masculine man, okay, 81 00:06:02,879 --> 00:06:06,839 to woo a liberal woman and like convert her like that. It works, 82 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:13,160 like you man out there, like you can fix her. Okay, you 83 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,519 really get And then in terms of Catholicism, that was sort of my last, 84 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:23,800 my final kind of iteration of you know, my extreme domesticity. And 85 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,199 the process began when my husband and I were newly married. I got pregnant. 86 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,399 We were thrilled, and at three months I had had a miscarriage, 87 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,720 and you know, it's very dramatic, unexpected. We were both like completely 88 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:41,439 unprepared, you know, we had not Now we're sort of battle hardened as 89 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,759 you are. You know, once you've had a miscarriage, you're you're braced, 90 00:06:44,959 --> 00:06:46,399 you know, every time you get pregnant. But at the time, 91 00:06:46,399 --> 00:06:49,040 we were just like lambs to the slaughter, and we had no idea, 92 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,920 you know, oh my gosh, what this can happen at this stage? 93 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,439 And like we were devastated. And he told me, he's like, listen, 94 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,600 I I'm just I'm so upset I have to convert to sanity. I'm 95 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,199 becoming a Catholic. And I was like, what I mean, I didn't, 96 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,959 you know, this is not what I signed up for, you know, 97 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,920 But I loved him and I was not going to like stop anyone from 98 00:07:11,959 --> 00:07:16,160 doing that obviously. So he started the process of going to our CIA, 99 00:07:16,279 --> 00:07:20,439 and I was sort of reluctantly accepting of it. My family was sort of 100 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:26,519 semi horrified, like, oh no, like you married this religious fundamentalist, 101 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,439 Like what were you thinking? But just the process of him going through it 102 00:07:30,439 --> 00:07:33,680 and me kind of going through it with him going to mass reading things, 103 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:39,639 just understanding and I had come from zero knowledge of any of this. Right 104 00:07:40,879 --> 00:07:45,160 that process led to my own conversion, and I I mean, I mean, 105 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,600 I was pregnant again and I very quickly had three children under the age 106 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,959 of three, So I didn't I wasn't even able to find like shoes that 107 00:07:53,199 --> 00:07:56,439 matched, you know, for a few years. But once I did, 108 00:07:56,759 --> 00:08:00,560 I started my own conversion. And it's been about ten years now. And 109 00:08:00,759 --> 00:08:03,399 you know, what can I tell you, Like, if you want to 110 00:08:03,439 --> 00:08:05,319 shortcut to all this stuff, you can want a great way to immunize your 111 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,920 kids and inoculate yourself to the you know, to the woke mind virus. 112 00:08:09,959 --> 00:08:15,079 Roman Catholicism is a great way to do that. With this one knee trick, 113 00:08:15,279 --> 00:08:20,000 you could just like cut right to the end. So that's very that's 114 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:26,040 very helpful because I didn't realize that the kind of ten year scale thing. 115 00:08:26,079 --> 00:08:30,920 But it makes a lot of sense. And I guess it also makes sense 116 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,120 to the extent that you're right. Um, I really liked this line. 117 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:37,480 I think this is actually just from the introduction you say, instead, you 118 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:43,120 will simply begin to make choices large and small, that come not from without 119 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,720 but from deep within. And to me, that's a really optimistic note, 120 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,480 and it goes along with the optimism I think of what you just said, 121 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:56,559 even if it was more implicit. You're saying that the human instinct that women 122 00:08:56,639 --> 00:09:00,720 have also that men have. You right, you have the whole section on 123 00:09:00,799 --> 00:09:05,480 men in the book that can kind of rescue us from. Um, you 124 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,480 know, this extremism that we consider normal now, or we're supposed to consider 125 00:09:09,519 --> 00:09:13,000 normal and back to just being normal. Do you think that's true? Do 126 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,279 you think that do you have hope that there are a lot of other you 127 00:09:16,279 --> 00:09:20,159 know, PG Keenan's out there who maybe won't take the step of becoming you 128 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,919 know, anonymous right wing. I was gonna say shit posters, but maybe 129 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:30,120 that's inappropriate. No, that's fine. I like that. I like that, 130 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,039 I like that that handle. But do you have hope that there are 131 00:09:33,039 --> 00:09:35,960 other people out there? Again, maybe they don't, you know, do 132 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,720 a career pivot, or maybe their career pivot looks like staying at home something 133 00:09:39,759 --> 00:09:43,840 like that, or or homeschooling. Are there more people like you out there, 134 00:09:43,879 --> 00:09:48,279 who coastal elites left of center, who will just sort of naturally come 135 00:09:48,639 --> 00:09:54,039 around because they start having kids and get married. Yes, I think there 136 00:09:54,039 --> 00:09:56,440 are. I mean I've met some of them, and I think that the 137 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:01,720 pandemic really will radicalize a lot of people to the reality of like public school 138 00:10:01,799 --> 00:10:07,720 education and the teachers unions and what they actually want with your kids. People 139 00:10:07,759 --> 00:10:09,639 tell me all the time that they're they reach out to me on Twitter and 140 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,279 they say, you know, I used to be this way, and I 141 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,279 had a change of heart. I used to be on the dating market and 142 00:10:16,399 --> 00:10:20,159 you know, tinger apps, and I finally woke up to the reality of 143 00:10:20,159 --> 00:10:24,720 that wasn't helpful. For me, So I think that a lot of women 144 00:10:24,759 --> 00:10:28,960 are. It really just takes them hearing the right message or like seeing the 145 00:10:28,039 --> 00:10:33,519 right kind of persuasive argument, or seeing them their own lives, how they've 146 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,120 been affected by, you know, single minded focus on a career to the 147 00:10:37,159 --> 00:10:45,120 sacrificing like their natural inborn fertility, or they've enforced in these positions of finding 148 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,080 themselves later in life, you know, child free, maybe by accident, 149 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,320 and now it's sort of too late. So I think the culture, the 150 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,960 liberals are actually helping me radicalize. They're doing a great job of radicalizing women 151 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:01,279 against feminism, and young men especially seemed to be kind of leading the vanguard 152 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,519 there, you know. I mean there was a study that just came out 153 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:13,840 that showed like gen Z men are hugely against feminism more than women and like 154 00:11:13,919 --> 00:11:16,480 at least half or something. So not like you know, overwhelming majority of 155 00:11:16,519 --> 00:11:20,240 gen Z men, but this is like guys like eighteen to twenty five or 156 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,840 whatever. And the reason that not many of them are anti feminist or whatever 157 00:11:24,919 --> 00:11:28,759 or see that it's it's all bull is because they're in the trenches, like 158 00:11:28,799 --> 00:11:33,559 they're in college with these chicks. You know, they're seeing what these women 159 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:37,159 are like and so that the reality on the ground is doing a great job 160 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,600 of kind of red pilling people against this stuff. But like you said, 161 00:11:41,639 --> 00:11:45,440 when I say in the book like turning inward, um, you know, 162 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:50,200 there's no I'm not really revealing anything like completely new under the sun. You 163 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,000 know, I'm not discovering any novel ideas like these. All these things are 164 00:11:54,159 --> 00:11:58,039 so so kind of ancient and timeless, and they're all in us from the 165 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,720 beginning, Like we're all born with these natural you know, normal instincts, 166 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:05,720 ways to feel, like how a mother should feel about her baby, a 167 00:12:05,759 --> 00:12:09,320 man and woman falling in love, like these are just like normal ways of 168 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:15,960 being human that if you can kind of like brush away the like scales of 169 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:20,960 feminism or progressivism and uncover them, you can kind of, you know, 170 00:12:20,039 --> 00:12:26,320 reveal what the person's true desires are, which they're not allowed to say anymore, 171 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:28,679 you know. Like I don't know if you had this experience, but 172 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,440 I had friends when I when I had my corporate job in the office, 173 00:12:31,879 --> 00:12:35,320 I would have friends who would you know, young women marry for a few 174 00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:39,279 years, have get pregnant, and they would tell me how reluctant they were 175 00:12:39,519 --> 00:12:43,840 to come back to work when the baby, when they returnity, when they're 176 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,720 paid. Leave was over, like it was like four to six weeks, 177 00:12:46,759 --> 00:12:48,120 you know, and they were like, I don't know if I can do 178 00:12:48,159 --> 00:12:50,440 it. I just I don't know if I can come back. And some 179 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,720 of them, I would say, listen, you don't you don't have to, 180 00:12:52,919 --> 00:12:56,759 Like when you have your baby, you know it's going to be hard 181 00:12:56,919 --> 00:13:00,840 to say goodbye to the kid for twelve hours a day, six week old. 182 00:13:00,919 --> 00:13:05,200 Like you if you if you listen to your heart, it will tell 183 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,759 you what you need to do. And yes it's a sacrifice. Yes you 184 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:13,879 might like lose whatever some few years of your income. But some of them 185 00:13:13,879 --> 00:13:16,559 did take my advice, and I was very pleased to see that some of 186 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,200 these women were much happier they they had to stay them with their newborn they 187 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,919 had a second newborn. But then on the other hand, there were some 188 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,720 who came right back and I would just look at them like, wow, 189 00:13:26,039 --> 00:13:30,639 that's I don't know if I could have done that. So I hope that 190 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,480 there is a way to sort of reach the hearts, the hearts and minds 191 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,080 of these young women. Yeah, at the Federalist, you're actually not allowed 192 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:43,879 to advance unless you have children, like nice, Nice, I love it. 193 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,159 Every kid lay the Handmaid's Tale over here. Every kid gets you into 194 00:13:46,159 --> 00:13:52,080 a higher tax bracket, right, that's how shit. Basing On that note, 195 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:56,080 though, you have a section in the book where you talk about birth 196 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:01,840 control as mind control, and I love that phrasing. It raises this issue 197 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,080 of, like I think the birth control pill, we're on the precipice of 198 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,639 a real reckoning with it. It is the one thing if you could point 199 00:14:07,639 --> 00:14:13,200 to something that just was a technological innovation that changed the world really quickly without 200 00:14:13,279 --> 00:14:18,080 much thought because the conveniences were so obvious, especially to the people who were 201 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:24,039 peddling it. But it's just sort of dramatically changed human nature overnight. And 202 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,799 I think you know, with more than a half century in the river mirror, 203 00:14:28,919 --> 00:14:33,519 this is at least slowly starting to change. So if you could you 204 00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:37,240 know with that kind of context that we are starting to see more people question 205 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,840 pharma's claims about birth control versus their experiences with it, especially since it started 206 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:48,720 getting prescribed to women in my generation millennial generation for acne and everything when they 207 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,879 were like thirteen years old and been on the pill for ten years. Are 208 00:14:52,919 --> 00:14:56,559 going to have fertility issues because of it, and in some likelihood. What 209 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:01,919 does it mean that it also in addition to be you know, the control 210 00:15:01,159 --> 00:15:07,320 sexually physically. How's it also mind control? Um? Yeah, I mean 211 00:15:07,399 --> 00:15:09,480 I think that the name of it is so dystopian. Um, you know, 212 00:15:09,639 --> 00:15:13,840 birth control. It sounds like some way to like cull the herd or 213 00:15:13,879 --> 00:15:18,399 something. It's crazy, right. Um. I think it's mind control in 214 00:15:18,399 --> 00:15:20,639 a way. I think in the book, I say it's like it's a 215 00:15:20,679 --> 00:15:24,399 form of like Chekhov's gun, you know, like Anton Chekhov, the playwright 216 00:15:24,519 --> 00:15:28,240 hit a famous quote attributed to him that if you if you're writing a play 217 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,240 and in act one you show a loaded gun, you know that that gun 218 00:15:31,279 --> 00:15:35,679 will be fired by act three. So if you if you show a girl, 219 00:15:35,759 --> 00:15:39,360 a young woman, teenager or whatever, the pill, and like, 220 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,480 here's what it will do for you. Here all the benefits, Like you 221 00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:46,720 can do whatever you want with a boy and no consequences. Like pretty sure 222 00:15:46,799 --> 00:15:50,720 that that will be getting the pill, will be being will get She'll test 223 00:15:50,759 --> 00:15:52,879 it out, like she's going to see if it works, and she's going 224 00:15:52,919 --> 00:15:56,240 to know that she's her innards have been, her uterus has been up armored 225 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,519 and she's been sterilized and she is ready to party, you know what I 226 00:16:00,519 --> 00:16:06,840 mean. And so you have a much I think higher likelihood of women being 227 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:12,879 open to you know, promiscuity dating apps like long strings of you know, 228 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:17,480 high body counts as they say, in terms of numbers of sexual partners. 229 00:16:18,679 --> 00:16:22,559 And you know, the whole idea of like chastity. I mean, could 230 00:16:22,559 --> 00:16:27,559 there be a dirtier word in the English language than chastity or even suggesting to 231 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:36,320 a young woman that might be healthier choice than medicalizing herself on lifetime synthetic hormones. 232 00:16:36,799 --> 00:16:38,320 And now we're seeing more and more, like you said, the after 233 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,519 effects of birth control. Not only do they make you kind of gain weight, 234 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,759 and like you know, do they work by literally making a woman like 235 00:16:47,799 --> 00:16:51,519 not want to have sex, like they make you a sexual They lower libido. 236 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,480 And there was some other study that said that women long term birth control 237 00:16:55,519 --> 00:17:00,159 actually become lesbians, like they're just so almost allergic to masculine nity because of 238 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,480 the pill that they're on, that it kind of induces this um, you 239 00:17:04,519 --> 00:17:08,359 know, anti natalism um. And so yeah, I mean, I think 240 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,480 Mary Harrington has been writing about the pill a lot Louise Perry, A lot 241 00:17:11,519 --> 00:17:15,759 of these sort of like radical traditional feminists. UM, this sort of like 242 00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:21,440 new group of women writers that's coming up because the after effects are no good 243 00:17:21,799 --> 00:17:23,680 And yeah, my, you know, I remember my sister got put on 244 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:29,599 the pill for acne and she had problems later in her life, she had 245 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,839 PTOs, she had she really struggled to to have children, and so I 246 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,680 mean, I'm not a hundred percent sure it's related, but I yeah, 247 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,240 I mean, you cannot lightly just put a thirteen year old on the pill. 248 00:17:38,279 --> 00:17:41,519 I mean, and what message are you sending as the mother that what 249 00:17:41,559 --> 00:17:45,559 are you hoping her to do when she's thirteen or fourteen years old? You 250 00:17:45,599 --> 00:17:48,640 know, Yeah, it's um the way that. But that's to me, 251 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,200 this question of one of the biggest questions I had when I was reading the 252 00:17:52,200 --> 00:18:00,480 book is um this sort of relativity between normality and extremism. And increasingly I 253 00:18:00,519 --> 00:18:07,000 think that what is normal and what is normal and sort of an idealistic sense, 254 00:18:07,039 --> 00:18:14,960 what are healthy norms are becoming not just framed as domestic extremism by the 255 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:21,480 media, but when you look at how sort of accepting everyone is of these 256 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,359 premises, like the Orwellian term birth control. I mean, look at how 257 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:30,359 pervasive the question of quote, forced birth has been after jobs, which is 258 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:36,119 insane. There's this like really I think tough, dynamic, and I don't 259 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:41,039 have the answer, but I do wonder if that if we're already so far 260 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:47,839 gone that it is genuinely extreme to be what used to be considered normal. 261 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,000 Do thoughts on that, especially in a world where I mean, I think 262 00:18:51,079 --> 00:18:53,960 birth control is a really indicative pendulum that seems to start swinging back. But 263 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,319 then I also think it it's such a tool of hedonism that I have a 264 00:18:59,319 --> 00:19:03,759 hard time seeing humans ever giving up so as a sort of stand in for 265 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,640 other conveniences and comforts that you know, we have in this hedonistic world. 266 00:19:08,079 --> 00:19:15,000 Can we go back or are the normies now destined to be extreme long term? 267 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,559 Yeah? I mean that that really is the question, isn't it. 268 00:19:17,559 --> 00:19:19,119 It's like can we are we going to win the culture where or not? 269 00:19:19,279 --> 00:19:25,880 You know, are we going to save save Western civilization or not? I 270 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:30,599 mean, you can see the effects of birth control are having these profound population 271 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,200 effect impacts everywhere, and not just the First world, not just you know, 272 00:19:34,279 --> 00:19:40,000 Japan and Europe, but now all over even even Mexico and Central America. 273 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,640 Their birth rates used to be high, but I think now the only 274 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:47,400 really major, you know, extreme extremely high birthrates are pretty much in sub 275 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:52,519 Saharan Africa. They're the last last ones to go. So we're kind of 276 00:19:52,559 --> 00:19:59,640 all committing genetic self suicide. As I say, we're choosing extinction. And 277 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,640 um, you know a lot of people, not just me, are talking 278 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,480 about this. I mean Elon Musk talks about this a lot. He's sort 279 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:10,079 of like the highest profile you know, pro natalists that we have UM. 280 00:20:10,759 --> 00:20:15,440 And he talks about population collapse as like the existential problem. You know, 281 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:21,319 sorry, you know, climate change, people like your thing is not as 282 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,960 important as this, um And so, you know, are we destined to 283 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,880 just be a tiny minority on the fringes, you know, homesteaders and homeschoolers 284 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:36,200 and domestic extremists like toiling away as everyone else jumps off the cliff? Um? 285 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,440 You know, I I don't. I don't think so. I think 286 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,200 that most people, at the end of the day, do not want to 287 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,599 die alone. They do not want to die with no children, no grandchildren, 288 00:20:48,759 --> 00:20:52,079 no legacy, no one to remember them, no one to visit their 289 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,160 grave, just their cats. You know, to eat their body when they 290 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,079 die in their studio apartment. UM. I think that most people don't want 291 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:00,960 that. It's a It's the trick is how do you get them to admit 292 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,720 that, you know, and like fight these very entrenched, as you say, 293 00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:11,079 cultural taboos against even talking about this, against even suggesting to a woman 294 00:21:11,519 --> 00:21:14,519 that she should not be dating a new guy every weekend. You know, 295 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,480 you should not be, you know, trying to get a very high body 296 00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:22,079 count to show off to your friends how how hot you are or whatever it 297 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:23,559 is. You know. But I think we're just kind of have to peel 298 00:21:23,599 --> 00:21:27,519 them off one by one. And it's one hundred year of March we have 299 00:21:27,599 --> 00:21:34,799 to take basically m And that's a helpful just framing because we think about things 300 00:21:34,839 --> 00:21:38,680 and you know, one year marches, maybe ten year marches, but so 301 00:21:38,759 --> 00:21:41,880 much has changed. You know, we live in such a hyper novel rule 302 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:47,559 this. Brett Weinstein and Heather Hang we would say that you're you're the frog 303 00:21:47,599 --> 00:21:49,240 in the boiling pot in your head spinning, and you can't kind of keep 304 00:21:49,279 --> 00:21:53,359 track of how much is changing and how much it is changing. I think 305 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:59,039 about that a lot when um, I think about sort of the the experiment 306 00:21:59,079 --> 00:22:04,839 in norm shifting what across the West when it comes to homosexuality, gay marriage, 307 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:11,359 and that it's strange to me that there's been so little discussion about what 308 00:22:11,799 --> 00:22:17,759 the life might look like forty years, fifty years, sixty years down the 309 00:22:17,839 --> 00:22:23,559 road when the natural sort of relationship between a man and a woman has a 310 00:22:23,559 --> 00:22:26,799 lot of comfort and nurturing from the woman. And it's not to say a 311 00:22:26,799 --> 00:22:30,440 man can't provide. It is just to say that men and women are biologically 312 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:36,920 different. Therefore the sort of complementary aspect of care is different. Having a 313 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:41,519 biological child with your partner, with both genes, that obviously changes the way 314 00:22:41,519 --> 00:22:48,200 that you're sort of evolutionarily, you know, condition to live as you age 315 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,319 and to be cared for as you age. So all that is to say, 316 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:53,920 there's just so little conversation about it, and we just sort of blaze 317 00:22:53,960 --> 00:23:02,720 ahead because certain things are I guess right now the conditioning is so deep. 318 00:23:02,839 --> 00:23:06,000 And on that note, um, maybe you have thoughts on that. But 319 00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:08,920 also I wanted to ask you about quote industrial scale grooming, which is another 320 00:23:10,039 --> 00:23:15,359 fantastic term because this this all has been industrialized. It is big business and 321 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:21,440 it is on a mass scale. Uh yeah. I mean one thing I 322 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,720 talk about in the book in some detail is like the whole industry of egg 323 00:23:23,759 --> 00:23:30,799 donation, and you know where we're going with that kind of blindly, and 324 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:36,440 what the consequences are to not just to the couples, like the childless couples, 325 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:41,559 the infertile couples. You know, today's mostly is mostly gay couples buying 326 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,039 egg you know, well they're donated, but they're actually you're buying eggs. 327 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:51,759 But the consequences to the women who are donating, quote donating their eggs um. 328 00:23:52,519 --> 00:23:55,440 You know, sort of like an issue that's linked with surrogacy. You 329 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,400 know, the women who are who are volunteering or whatever being paid to be 330 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,880 surrogate. M s gets for couples who don't want to, don't want to 331 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,000 or can't carry their own babies to term. Again largely gay couples, UM. 332 00:24:07,559 --> 00:24:11,000 And you know these women are doing it for mostly this. You know, 333 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,200 many of them are Christian Mormon. UM. There's a lot of a 334 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,240 lot of egg donors in Utah. UM. I did a lot of research 335 00:24:18,279 --> 00:24:22,960 on this, and they are kind of entranced by the idea of you know, 336 00:24:23,519 --> 00:24:29,440 um empathy helping people. You know, people who can't have their own 337 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,319 children, sharing their wonderful youth and fecundity with those who are less fortunate, 338 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,319 you know. And it comes to this place of love, and so trying 339 00:24:37,319 --> 00:24:41,359 to tell love is love a lot. Yeah, yeah, And they're literally 340 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:48,160 not being they're not even because they've absorbed so many of the planned parenthood messages 341 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,279 and narrative that your eggs are not children, they're not even related to you. 342 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:56,200 They're nothing. It's nothing. It's just a sell, you know. 343 00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:00,799 They you imbibe that I did as a teenage girl. You just believe that 344 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,440 wholeheartedly, that it's not a baby until it comes out. Okay, before 345 00:25:04,519 --> 00:25:07,359 that, it's up for grabs. Anyone can claim it. It is whatever 346 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,559 you say it is. And so their eggs to them are nothing, and 347 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,920 it's just like giving them a piece of dry skin, like it's not a 348 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,440 finger, fingernail clippings. And so they donate their eggs. They go through 349 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,279 a very kind of rigorous, medically invasive, destructive process of egg harvesting. 350 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,640 There's I mean, it's really gruesome what they do to you. Once you 351 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,400 get sucked in, you're not paid paid very much money, and they harvest 352 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,039 your eggs like you're like you're a belooga sturgeon. They just like open you 353 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,839 up and take out this and you're jacked up with crazy hormones, and you're 354 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,400 very young. And most of these women have never had a baby. They 355 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:47,599 don't know if they'll ever have fertility problems. And I and their eggs are 356 00:25:47,599 --> 00:25:52,440 sold on these crazy websites that look like dating websites. They look like Tinder 357 00:25:52,519 --> 00:25:57,480 profiles with the women young twenty twenty one year old girls dress provocatively, you 358 00:25:57,519 --> 00:26:03,960 know, tenie shots like it's really it's really crazy. Um. And like 359 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,359 the blonde, blue eyed ones are you know, obviously the most popular, 360 00:26:07,519 --> 00:26:11,519 like even to liberals, you know, there's not a lot of diversity among 361 00:26:11,559 --> 00:26:15,039 the egg donation women. Just what does that mean? I don't know. 362 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:21,279 Is it are the egg egg buyers you know, a bastion of white supremacy. 363 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,880 I mean, like, yes they are. That's who's buying, you 364 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,720 know, the gay men and the women buying eggs are like they're looking for 365 00:26:27,759 --> 00:26:33,079 a specific body type, thin, young, white, blonde, blue eyed. 366 00:26:33,559 --> 00:26:37,359 Um. And what I found in the book is that there's some terrible 367 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,839 stories of women having egg donor regret. And a woman who was rendered, 368 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:47,119 for example, totally infertile by the process of her harvesting her eggs. And 369 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:52,759 she found out that she had two biological children who were being raised by strangers 370 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,559 in another state, and they would never know her, she would never be 371 00:26:56,599 --> 00:27:00,359 able to see them touch them, and she was now infertile, and those 372 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,400 are the only two children she would ever have. And now she herself was 373 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,640 resorting to egg buying to have her own children. And just like, what 374 00:27:07,759 --> 00:27:11,119 a depressing, what a debacle. You know, It's like it's almost it's 375 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:15,480 not you know, it's it's like it reminds me of like the de transitioners, 376 00:27:15,599 --> 00:27:19,880 these victims of the left, these victims of you know, medical technology 377 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:25,240 gone gone wrong. It's almost like one of the Aliens sequels, you know, 378 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,519 just like this. You know, it's like this. These laboratories are 379 00:27:29,519 --> 00:27:32,799 doing these things with no consequence, like you said, they're just full steam 380 00:27:32,799 --> 00:27:36,640 ahead, and there are consequences. And I hope that people can read about 381 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,759 them and learn more about them and decide, you know what, I think, 382 00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:42,720 I'm not going to sell my eggs at least I hope. Well, 383 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,160 no, it's again, it's a great example, like Katie Faust really of 384 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:48,119 them before us rightly. Oh yeah, eyes up to this. I think 385 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,519 she's open a lot of people's eyes up to this because she's great artifacts of 386 00:27:52,599 --> 00:27:59,119 our culture that have that just kind of like baked into because the industrial scale 387 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,440 grooming is so power powerful. They're they're really not questioned birth control and surrogacy. 388 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:08,440 They're cast by corporations that run media outlets with that kind of love is 389 00:28:08,519 --> 00:28:14,480 love framing with the um you know, technology is amazing and blah blah blah. 390 00:28:14,519 --> 00:28:18,240 It's all the same, and they've shoved this down people's throats in a 391 00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:22,559 matter of decades. And it's something striking about your book is how much of 392 00:28:22,599 --> 00:28:27,559 it goes back down to sex and biology. I mean, so much of 393 00:28:27,599 --> 00:28:32,680 what you're writing about, I mean maybe most of it is se and biology. 394 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,160 So I guess I wanted to ask why you think that's become the central 395 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,720 sort of fight in the culture. Where Why does it at the end of 396 00:28:41,759 --> 00:28:45,920 the day, why does so much of this come down to sex and biology? 397 00:28:47,119 --> 00:28:51,880 I think it's it's been become clear to me why all of these things 398 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,039 seem to be focused and targeting on young women who are at their most fertile, 399 00:28:56,599 --> 00:28:59,680 the time when they should be thinking about, you know, finding a 400 00:28:59,759 --> 00:29:06,839 mate and having children. Instead, they're being delivered this menu of options, 401 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:11,640 reproductive technology, lifestyle options that include things like, you know, exploring your 402 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:17,480 sexuality for the next ten years, avoiding pregnancy, freezing your eggs, donating 403 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,960 your eggs, getting abortions, get out of birth control. And it's very 404 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,599 clear to me that the reason is because once you are a mother, you 405 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:29,720 suddenly have something to protect, and you suddenly have something to conserve, and 406 00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:34,920 you suddenly have something a vocation, a lifestyle that has nothing to do with 407 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,799 your job, your boss, Joe Biden, the government, like society as 408 00:29:40,839 --> 00:29:45,359 a whole. Now it's like you, your mate and your child against the 409 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,359 world. You know, like the old schoolhouse rock song, three is a 410 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,480 magic number, you know, a man and a woman have a little baby 411 00:29:52,039 --> 00:29:56,440 and like that. Now they're this like micro unit of you know, the 412 00:29:56,519 --> 00:30:03,200 ultimate, the ultimate nuclear family, and breaking that apart is required. You 413 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,720 know, the powers that be kind of have to break that apart in order 414 00:30:06,759 --> 00:30:11,160 to kind of reassert you know, control over them so they can continue selling 415 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:17,839 them their products, their technology, their their political ideologies. It's very very 416 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,039 important to them to break that apart and get access to the to the the 417 00:30:22,079 --> 00:30:26,720 woman and the child in that family unit unit. And that's what that's what 418 00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:30,799 the whole book is about, you know, become extremely domestic if you want 419 00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:34,640 to live, you know, um, prioritizing yourself, your relationship with your 420 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:40,720 spouse and protecting your your children and hopefully having more than a couple like is 421 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,519 the only path out that I see for all of us to take, you 422 00:30:44,519 --> 00:30:48,160 know, Um, it's the only way to prevent them from kind of like 423 00:30:48,279 --> 00:30:52,279 stealing your your you know, stealing your brain and like asserting their control over 424 00:30:52,319 --> 00:30:56,279 you. And so that's why they have to target the mothers. That's why 425 00:30:56,319 --> 00:31:00,680 they have They have to you know, convince moms that it's okay to trans 426 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,279 transition your six year old boy, that's fine, to keep him, make 427 00:31:04,359 --> 00:31:10,359 him a medicalized patient for life. And they seem to be really going after 428 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:11,440 the mothers, and a lot of mothers are going after it. I mean 429 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:17,799 there I think they have like some mental problems, um, you know, 430 00:31:18,319 --> 00:31:21,960 among a lot of women who are doing it as a virtue signal or whatever. 431 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,759 But yeah, it seems like very obvious why they're targeting women and girls. 432 00:31:26,119 --> 00:31:34,000 They're the soft underbelly of the culture. That's another good transition because that's 433 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:40,400 the book includes a quiz, and as I was going through the quiz, 434 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,079 I had the same again the Reactually, so much of this is in some 435 00:31:44,119 --> 00:31:48,799 way just ties to sex and ties to biology into you know, all of 436 00:31:48,799 --> 00:31:52,200 those sorts of things. Can you tell us just about making the quiz, 437 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,119 because it's it's basically a quiz to find out whether you're a domestic extremist. 438 00:31:56,279 --> 00:31:57,440 And we're not going to spoil all of it because you should go get that 439 00:31:57,519 --> 00:32:01,200 book, which again is that undude, But tell us about coming up with 440 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:06,200 the sort of litmus test for whether one is an extremist or not. Yeah, 441 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:12,240 I mean I was called a domestic extremist by people when I was pregnant 442 00:32:12,319 --> 00:32:15,160 with my third kid. You know, a neighbor saw me, literally saw 443 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,640 me coming home like pregnant with my two little kids, and she was like, 444 00:32:19,079 --> 00:32:21,920 wait, are you pregnant again? And I was like yes, She's 445 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,599 like, what are you some kind of Mormon? You know? So I 446 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:29,240 was done ankle lengths girt. Yeah, like I was already some kind of 447 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:34,519 like religious fundamentalist with three kids. Obviously she had two kids, because that's 448 00:32:34,519 --> 00:32:37,200 all you can fit you know, in the back of the Mercedes or whatever, 449 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,119 and I had like the mini van, I was ready to go. 450 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:45,039 I'm ready to fill it up, which we did. But yeah, I 451 00:32:45,079 --> 00:32:52,400 mean, you're just you're just going to be marked as a domestic extremist by 452 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:57,880 being living a normal life or what used to be considered normal, you know, 453 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,279 within recent memory. So a quiz, it's what is it called how 454 00:33:01,319 --> 00:33:05,200 to know if you're a domestic extremist, Like you might be like you know, 455 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,480 the old quiz, you might be a redneck if like you might be 456 00:33:07,519 --> 00:33:12,759 a domestic extremist. If you want to get married one day, want to 457 00:33:12,759 --> 00:33:16,119 stay married and want to be monogamous, If you don't want your spouse watching 458 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:21,079 pornography, if you aspire to have let's say, at least three children, 459 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,079 If you think it's great for a mom to stay home and nurse her baby. 460 00:33:25,279 --> 00:33:29,480 You know that makes you like all these things that were kind of taken 461 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,880 for granted, that was just that was just how you lived. These were 462 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:37,880 not not conservative ideas, These are not radical ideas, These are not all 463 00:33:37,039 --> 00:33:43,480 right ideas or whatever. This is just timeless. This is millennia. People 464 00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:46,079 have been doing these things, but now they mark you as a very dangerous 465 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,680 domestic extremist. That's the irony of the title. You know, it's just 466 00:33:50,759 --> 00:33:54,200 like wild, how these very basic things have become you know, taboo. 467 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,839 Yeah, wild is a great word for it. You've written for us about 468 00:34:00,279 --> 00:34:04,599 the kind of boycott trends right now. Obviously on the front of a lot 469 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:09,360 of people's minds are Target and bud Light, and it's it's obviously difficult to 470 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:14,000 put a number on what percentage of moms, or what percentage of parents, 471 00:34:14,079 --> 00:34:17,960 or what percentage of consumers period um. You know, bud Light probably wouldn't 472 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:22,679 be a bunch of moms protesting it in mass That would be more like the 473 00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:28,800 the I don't know, Barefoot's Pino Griggio. But um, with with bud 474 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,960 Light is just a lot of you know, sort of middle American people, 475 00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:35,800 and with Target, probably a lot of moms, parents, um. And 476 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,119 the media sort of chewing on this question of like what's going on. There's 477 00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:43,320 been some explanations for targets market downturn. You know, it's it's that time 478 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,039 of year. There's there's just all these things going on with Target, these 479 00:34:45,039 --> 00:34:49,800 business structural things. It's not about the boycott. Um, what do you 480 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,599 what do you make of like the last two months now of consumers starting to 481 00:34:53,599 --> 00:35:00,519 really seem to make their voices heard at the cash register. Yeah, it's 482 00:35:00,559 --> 00:35:02,880 been amazing because you know, people have tried to do boycotts before, you 483 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:07,760 know, boycott Disney, that's been a perennial for the last three or four 484 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:12,639 years. This one seems to be really hitting. And I think it really 485 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,280 is because people I think they jump the shark with a Dylan mulvaney bud Light 486 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,960 can and now people that I know, at least anecdotally are really having fun 487 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,679 with it, like they're sharing and getting excited about like the latest bud Light 488 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:30,400 stock price low. You know, like the normans are like like loving it, 489 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,519 like having fun with it, and it is becoming fun. It's like, 490 00:35:32,559 --> 00:35:35,920 now what else can we boycott? Like what can we do? Now? 491 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,280 Who else can we take down? Because Wow, we do have a 492 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:44,000 little bit of power just as a regular person, as a regular consumer. 493 00:35:44,639 --> 00:35:49,320 I mean, will Dodgers games be less crowded? Like they look like they're 494 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,199 pretty crowded? Still? Our targets going to see actually fewer sales, like 495 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,639 when it comes to like back to school time. I mean that's an open 496 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,119 question. The problem is, like there aren't a lot of alternatives for a 497 00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:05,800 mom who makes for regular Target run where you can get diapers and school supplies, 498 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,000 you know, and like make up at the same store. Like there's 499 00:36:08,039 --> 00:36:10,320 no Walmart near me, And I don't know if I want to go to 500 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:15,119 Walmart, Like I've seen too many Walmart fight videos, Like I don't know 501 00:36:15,159 --> 00:36:16,719 if I you know, like I don't know if I'm that's one of the 502 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:23,159 fun You're gonna bring my mace to Walmart. There's not a lot of alternatives 503 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:27,239 yet. You know, bud Light is easy because there's a million beer brands. 504 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,039 There's not a million Targets, there's not a million Dodgers. So it 505 00:36:30,039 --> 00:36:35,639 remains to be seen if that will last. But the good news is I 506 00:36:35,639 --> 00:36:38,000 am hearing people and my own family, like we're done with Disney, like 507 00:36:38,159 --> 00:36:40,519 we usually go. We were going like once a year. You know. 508 00:36:40,559 --> 00:36:44,719 We live in LA I grew up going to the park. I love the 509 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,840 park. We're probably not going to go for the foreseeable future. It's just 510 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,480 the finally the cons outweigh the pros, and I think that will be the 511 00:36:53,519 --> 00:36:59,039 case with Target. People will find alternatives, and I think that just people 512 00:36:59,079 --> 00:37:01,239 are having fun with it. It's like a tactic, you know. Sallyinsky 513 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,639 said, like, you know, always use tactics that your side enjoys, 514 00:37:06,119 --> 00:37:08,599 and so right now everyone's really enjoying this, and I hope they keep having 515 00:37:08,639 --> 00:37:15,000 fun with it. So that's also one of the big questions I think a 516 00:37:15,039 --> 00:37:19,119 lot of people are asking themselves, like when you look at your trajectory, 517 00:37:19,159 --> 00:37:22,760 which, if I'm very interesting and I've seen in other people's lives, maybe 518 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,519 it's fair to say you might disagree with this, but it might be fair 519 00:37:24,559 --> 00:37:30,960 to say that you went full trad like you did the full You never Emily, 520 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:32,559 you never go full tread. You never go full tread. That's sub 521 00:37:34,199 --> 00:37:37,519 get that tattooed um, never go full trad. But that's you know, 522 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:43,840 are things like guns and abortion as much as like your average person looks at 523 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:50,039 the tucking stuff at Target or kids themed pride clothing and just says, get 524 00:37:50,039 --> 00:37:52,360 it out of my face. But you know, they also don't have a 525 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,280 lot of alternatives because Walmart, I'm sure has plenty of di stuff, as 526 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,559 do as does Coals. I saw that over the course last week. It's 527 00:37:59,599 --> 00:38:01,719 lovely. So it's like, what are you supposed to do. Um, 528 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,239 you know, does my my vote with my dollar even matter? The answer 529 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,239 to that, I think is pretty clearly um, mostly no. I don't 530 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:13,920 know. We're still in the stage of the experiment where it's not entirely obvious, 531 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:15,280 but I would say it's, you know, probably no. And that's 532 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,960 sort of the point of SG. But all that aside, Um, are 533 00:38:20,119 --> 00:38:24,840 those sort of baked in type cultural things that come with the things that maybe 534 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:29,480 icked you out when you talk about how you're sort of a California snob towards 535 00:38:29,519 --> 00:38:37,039 the middle American CAMA wearing you in church going Bible thumping folks. Is that 536 00:38:37,679 --> 00:38:43,119 going to be the thing that prevents a Glenn Younken or Ronda Santis from doing 537 00:38:43,199 --> 00:38:46,719 well in different places, whether it's the presidential election or another in you know, 538 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:52,239 gubernatorial racist senate races. How powerful is that at sort of stopping you 539 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:57,119 know, potential peaches at the maybe half mark. Yeah, I mean, 540 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,360 you know, a joking about never go full trad I mean, I live 541 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,920 in I'm a you know, I'm still living in Los Angeles. I'm still 542 00:39:04,079 --> 00:39:06,599 from all you know, from from out from the outside. You know, 543 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,880 I don't dress like a I'm an Amish. I don't have a farm. 544 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,639 I don't. I don't. I'm not a homesteader. You know. I 545 00:39:12,639 --> 00:39:15,880 don't milk. This is the litmus stuff. I'm fine with raw milk. 546 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,639 I don't know where to get it. Here's like, once they sell it 547 00:39:19,639 --> 00:39:22,239 at a Trader Joe's, I'll try it, but until then I wouldn't. 548 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:23,920 I don't know where a cow is. I don't have lived I don't want 549 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:28,800 to touch a live chicken. Okay, I'm still very much like suburban, 550 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:35,199 you know, like spoiled, like American. I'm not a farmer. Um. 551 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,320 You don't have to be to be extuly domestic. That's the magic of 552 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,440 this. You can do this anywhere. You can live this way in an 553 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:45,000 apartment in New York City. It might be harder, but this is not 554 00:39:45,039 --> 00:39:47,320 about growing your own food. That's all great. People should definitely do those 555 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:52,599 things and be less less dependent. But part of the way that you make 556 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:59,679 going trad quote unquote more popular, especially among you know, coastal elitists u 557 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,280 is, you make it cool and so like. You know, the reason 558 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:07,000 I always looked down my nose, I was a total awful snob was because 559 00:40:07,079 --> 00:40:12,480 to me being a conservative, being trad looked it just looked kind of like, 560 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:14,760 I don't know, it wasn't cool, it wasn't trendy, it wasn't 561 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,320 hip. It was you know, it was I mean, I'm all for 562 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:20,599 patriotism, but I was not going to be like in a pickup truck with 563 00:40:20,639 --> 00:40:23,880 a shotgun and with like antlers, like no hunting culture. Like I just 564 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:28,000 couldn't relate to that. I wanted to be hip and trendy and cool. 565 00:40:28,559 --> 00:40:32,639 And the thing I'm seeing now is that like being trad is sort of becoming 566 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,280 a fringe, cool, trendy aesthetic. You know, there's a whole thing 567 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:43,719 going on in New York with like Dimes Square, where traditional Catholicism has become 568 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,880 like a scene among among twenty year olds and you know, wearing crosses and 569 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:52,519 going to mass and it's like this kind of groovy hipster scene. Now will 570 00:40:52,559 --> 00:40:57,480 that translate like are they LARPing? You know? Will that translate into actual 571 00:40:57,599 --> 00:41:00,559 marriages with three or four kids in a minivan in the suburbs? I mean, 572 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:02,840 I hope. So. I mean it's like fake it till you make 573 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:07,800 it. I'm totally fine with that. I went to a reading a few 574 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,760 weeks ago, which was was remarkable. It was it was myself, Curtis 575 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:15,840 Yarvin, another Twitter and on and we read from our writing and this is 576 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,039 in Los Angeles and there was like two hundred people there, all young, 577 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,440 all all cool like it was. It was a very hip scene. I 578 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,079 know, I couldn't believe my eyes. I was like, I asked the 579 00:41:24,079 --> 00:41:27,840 crowd. I was like, where did you all come from? Wait? 580 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,760 So you and Curtis Yevin were in person. You're in person on stage together. 581 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:38,440 Yep. And somehow the universe did not split off into gen X. 582 00:41:38,639 --> 00:41:46,519 For the win, gen X writers are finally taking charge of mainstream American culture. 583 00:41:47,079 --> 00:41:52,880 And my takeaway from that was everyone there was literate, smart, educated, 584 00:41:53,039 --> 00:41:59,760 cool and hip. And I think that becoming trad has to be something 585 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:05,079 that's not like a cringe like good old boy Thingum that there's anything wrong with 586 00:42:05,119 --> 00:42:08,800 that, but to appeal to like twenty year olds in La New York and 587 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:13,400 Florida and wherever in big cities. You know, it is becoming cool. 588 00:42:13,639 --> 00:42:16,039 It is like the counterculture. And that's why I mean I called the book 589 00:42:16,039 --> 00:42:22,199 Domestic Extremists. We are a fringe aesthetic and I'm hoping that is a little 590 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:27,519 appealing because the mainstream, the conformist stuff to do is to be your basic 591 00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:30,519 feminists, child free, you know, loser, and you know, we're 592 00:42:30,559 --> 00:42:35,719 the cool people. And I hope that people decide just just because of that, 593 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,719 to join to join our movement. Emily, is there like a support 594 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:43,400 group for right wing like Twitter or not? Like? Do you guys like 595 00:42:43,519 --> 00:42:46,599 all congregate? There are a few group jets, that's all. That's all. 596 00:42:46,599 --> 00:42:51,719 I'm gonna say, fed proof group jets. That's what you think? 597 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,000 Yeah, right, spoken like a fed Well, on that, I have 598 00:42:55,039 --> 00:43:00,199 one. I have one final question because your writing is unusual, clever and 599 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:05,320 sharp. And I say that because you know, I think we're as a 600 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,800 as a culture, as a society, really losing our ability to write artfully. 601 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:12,280 And that's what's so refreshing about your work. I think that's what's magnetic 602 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,159 about it and why so many people love it. So on that note, 603 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,639 who are some of your favorite writers? Are there other people who's writing you 604 00:43:19,679 --> 00:43:22,960 really love that you feel like informs your style? Maybe I should even ask 605 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,920 like comedians, because again, your work is really clever. Yeah, well, 606 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,760 thank you so much. That's so nice to say. I mean you 607 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,800 know, as a young person, I was obsessed with comedy. I was 608 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:37,079 a comedy writer for a short time. I was a writer's assistant for a 609 00:43:37,159 --> 00:43:42,639 very well known female television writer. But growing up I loved I loved comedy. 610 00:43:42,679 --> 00:43:45,239 I loved funny writers. And in those days, the main thing people 611 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:50,519 read, you know, pre internet, pre blog, we're magazines. So 612 00:43:50,599 --> 00:43:53,599 like I loved, you know, Anthony Lane's movie reviews in the New Yorker, 613 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:58,760 you know, I loved I read Harper's Magazine. I read Spy Magazine. 614 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,079 I thought Spy Magazine just sort of like a parody satire magazine which doesn't 615 00:44:02,119 --> 00:44:06,800 even really exists very much in line of like the you know, the Harvard 616 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:12,480 Lampoon, Saturday Night Live, John Hughes, PG O'Rourke. All these writers 617 00:44:12,519 --> 00:44:15,920 from like the mid eighties were sort of my idols because they were funny and 618 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:20,599 they and I, you know, I idolized Dorothy Parker. I wanted to 619 00:44:20,639 --> 00:44:24,719 be her, you know, without the like dissolute alcoholism, but I thought 620 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:29,480 she was great. Um, I just aspired to be like them one day, 621 00:44:29,519 --> 00:44:32,079 because being funny that's how you became cool, and that's how you would 622 00:44:32,119 --> 00:44:36,840 become popular, and so my writing style has just I mean I've sort of 623 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,079 always had this sort of whatever voice. Um, but I you know, 624 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:47,000 I have no interest in reading something that is like dry and academic. I 625 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,760 mean I read a lot, but I I'm always drawn to people who are 626 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:52,679 who are who are witty, who can make a joke make me laugh, 627 00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,239 because I mean, there's a real art to that, and it's it's hard 628 00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,519 to do, you know. I mean, I'm not a stand up comedian, 629 00:44:59,119 --> 00:45:02,360 but I mean there's some of the most brilliant writers. If you can 630 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:07,519 write, and like Twitter, having to tweet, you know, make something 631 00:45:07,559 --> 00:45:12,320 sharp and short and sweet in a tweet is great practice. And of course 632 00:45:12,519 --> 00:45:15,679 I also benefit from working as a as a like an advertising copywriter, which 633 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:21,079 was my main you know, that's how I supported myself for many years. 634 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,800 And so birth control. I never sell a birth control. I never sold 635 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:31,960 out, although I did once almost have a Margaret Sanger charity as one of 636 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,719 my clients, and I just had to I had to turn that one down. 637 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,679 I was like, I can't, I can't promote Margaret Sanger, you 638 00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,679 know, the founder of planned parenthood. So I did. Yeah, I 639 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:45,480 did walk from that. But if you're required to write a pithy tagline or 640 00:45:45,039 --> 00:45:50,119 summarize this cool product in you know, a hundred characters. You have to 641 00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,760 learn economy, you have to learn puns, puns or your friend. I 642 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:57,639 mean, there's a whole host of kind of tricks that you have to learn. 643 00:45:58,039 --> 00:46:00,480 But yeah, I mean I can't really name one and writer. I 644 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,960 mean, I just there's so many writers that and there's so many great writers 645 00:46:04,039 --> 00:46:07,800 writing now on the right. Um, it's sort of a it is. 646 00:46:07,199 --> 00:46:15,000 It's like a it feels like a rich time for content and writing and literature 647 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,400 on our side, and I hope to see a lot more of it, 648 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:21,719 more of it. Yeah, well, if you want some of that rich 649 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,280 culture, you should pick up a copy of Domestic Extream as the Practical Guide 650 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,880 to Think the Culture Wars out June sixth. Click on the link for the 651 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,960 cover alone. It's really cool. Peachie Keenan. You can find more peaches 652 00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:35,800 work at Peachie Keenan dot substack dot com, also, of course, on 653 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,880 Twitter and at the Federalist. For Peachie Keenan is now a senior contributor. 654 00:46:39,039 --> 00:46:44,760 YEA, thank you so much for stopping by and for being brave enough to 655 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,320 do all you do. Oh, thank you so much, Emily. This 656 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,599 is so fun. I'd love to do this again. Oh my gosh, 657 00:46:49,639 --> 00:46:52,679 anytime. I'm em Eldrasnski, culture editor here at The Federalist. You've been 658 00:46:52,679 --> 00:46:57,320 listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. We'll be back soon with 659 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:08,519 more. Until then, be lovers of freedom. Just the frame you