My knowledge of like Japanese culture came from Peter Brown, who took me to
Japan for the very first time for TGS and he gave me like the quickest
course of all time. But my favorite part is Peter Brown, who now
works for PlayStation. He's always been like a very respectful, straight shooter guy,
like he takes his job seriously. It's probably why he's done so well.
He like knows his shit and I'm a very silly person. And on
the bullet train to Japan, he sat me down and said, listen,
we're gonna go through so much stuff, but I just want to let you
know that respect in this culture is very serious and so I need you to
like not fuck around here. I laughed and he did not, and I
was like okay, and that was it. Like my biggest lesson was like
don't be you and like really keep it together. And I was like,
got it um. And it did come in handy because I met a lot
of people and I was like, maintain eye contact, no silly business,
Mary, don't be yourself and I and I really, I really think,
I really think I made a good impression the entire time as everybody was mumbling
as he walked away, someone who's always super serious. I got along.
We're out really well with people in Japan. Super I believe it so early
in the thing, but I already want to start talking about you being a
real Jedi. I don't know what it is. Hey, everyone here,
episode fifty two. I'm Mike Hardy as always. That's Mary Kish Hello,
And that's Dan Riiker Hello. Kansas City. Uh, porn in the Woods
wrestling? Did everybody catch WrestleMania? That's that's a really bad accent. That's
Christ he's Polygon, he's if you there's probably a lot of crossover between fire
Escape listeners and the Bestias listeners. Plants over at the Besties as well.
Uh, he's our guests sit well, Dan's off gallivanting in California for like
a month or two or something. I don't know what he's doing. How
closes he to me? He I don't he's been He's southern California. I
believe how great wuld MEPs and walked in right now? Maybe Yeah, pretty
weird, got a bag of taco bell Yeah, fried pie? And he
moves you over to talk about WrestleMania and say the exact same sentences that you
just said because he would Chris, you are like Dan from Kansas, and
I'm sure you feel really yeah, You're from the Missouri kid from Kansas City,
and I feel like Kansas sucks. Dan probably is representing the Midwest really
well, is what you have. The funny thing, Dan is from Johnson
County, which is like being from Orange County in California. Dan. If
if this is true, if Dan is truly from Johnson County, it is
the area that everybody else around there is like, oh, Richie rich over
here, like oh, these people don't know how to drive in their SUVs.
They'll cut you off. So I always a conflict I have in my
head of where where is Dan from? He doesn't know how to drive in
an suv? Maybe that's it. Maybe he pretends to be afraid. Yeah,
it's a fake. He's like, Oh, I don't I'm afraid of
driving because if people see me do it, they'll realize I'm like a Ritchie
rich asshole. They'll know that I'm from the Ritchie rich area when I associate.
When I hear this story, I'd love to think of Dan's dad as
a Ritchie rich who is just lavishing in funds and like slurping up all those
baseball cards with his excess funds that he obviously has earning books for some reason,
burning books. Who thinks the fact that wine bars exist as an affront
to human nature. He's a very odd Frenchman. It's kind of like transcendent,
right, that you've gotten so rich that you actually go back into you
loop. The loop. It's like the nuclear Gandhi from Civilization. Yeah,
it's just like that. Actually, that's the only way I know how to
relate to plan. We always talk in gamer examples. I mean, there
is like that system that you see, especially in high end tech companies,
right where like a lot of people it's their first day they're wearing suits or
they're wearing really nice outfits. They got it together. You know. Once
you're at a manager level, you're like, hey, my collared shirt is
wrinkled because you know, I'm just like you. And then you go up.
Yeah, the executives, they're all just kind of like hanging out.
They're wearing just trousers. I remember at game Spot a guy kept coming in
with board shorts. I wonder, I know I'm talking about. It was
a guy at game Spot who would always he was like exact level, and
he kept coming in in board shorts and flip flops, and we were like,
this guy sucks. And then once you get to the CEO area,
you can just walk around in the garbage bag and everyone's gonna be like looking
good, budd and nobody gives you feedback, and then you just get to
like enjoy your life as a cash Many of them are in garbage bags now,
But yeah, that was. They definitely got way too casual some days.
I don't know how's I mean, well, what are you gonna ask?
Um? Yeah, if you heard earlier, I was gonna say plants
eice of polygon, which makes him my ball. I'm the one who walks
around in a trash bag. Where are you wearing a trash bag? I
mean you can see I'm wearing right now. I'm wearing a really trashy Kansas
City shirt. Wow, from Kansas I mean that's like half my clothes because
everybody from Kansas City doesn't how dress themselves, so they just wear whatever sportskier
they find in the closet, like is one. It sounds like a joke,
but there was. Um, I don't know if you all watch Queer
Eye. But there was a season of Queer Eye in Kansas City, and
you could tell it was there because every time they opened any like dude's closet,
all there was was like half red and half blue. And that's because
if you actually pulled those things out, it was like half kans City Chiefs,
half Broils and the like the movement, the movement. Then the moment
I knew I needed to change is like my wife saw that and she's like,
hmm, something you could learn from right moment. Wow, you could
have been the subject of a Queer Eye episode. Oh a hundred, you
got I wanted to do it for my dad. Didn't get it in too
cool dudes come into your house. You just had to watch a show and
then your wife get bragged on you. I just got nagged. I thought
about that before. I have watched a couple of seasons that show I forget.
One was like Deep South. The season I watched, Well, there
was Austin. That's what I'm thinking of. I think, Oh, yes,
classic southtown Austin. It might as well. No, No, that
can't be it, because there was one where it was actually like he lived
in a like I want to say Mississippi. Oh no, it was.
It was like Atlanta. I think the first season's Atlanta. The guy himself
like the subject was gay and having problems coming out in a very religious Southern
like Baptist community, and that could be Yeah, I think it was.
That was when I was like, I think, I wonder what they would
suggest I changed if they came into my life, like I'm like halfway to
being okay, but there's problems things or think I guess I'm the would rip
you apart. They would go into your closet and be like, well,
everything's black and no, they'd like that. I feel like, oh,
you're not um Sarah nose like you gotta mix it up sometimes put some color
in that wardrobe. I think that they would say. One thing that I
think they would comment on is that you're very tidy. Your house is very
neat. You have you know, you keep a tight ship, and you
keep yourself very like manicured, which I think they would appreciate. Okay,
I think you'd be Yeah, you'd be perfect. I want to see them
do somebody like you where you've made some steps right, but plenty of room
to grow. Yeah, so that they come in and you're like, oh,
I like wine, and then they're like, oh, you drank swill.
And then they like, I think my room's pretty clean, and they're
like half this is Rambo DVDs like yeah, you organized it, congrats and
Pauline Kennel books. Ye oh god, I don't know which is worse.
I don't either. Yeah, they're like they're like, oh, you're drinking
the twenty seven. They're twenty seventeen Saint Amelian Grand Crew. Okay, we'll
bring in a wine guy for this episode and a tattoo removal guy because we
got some work. Why haven't you gotten better at cooking? Oh you've played
eight hundred hours of Warhammer. Oh and that's only one Warhammer? Okay?
Cool. So you have a gaming laptop separate from your gaming PC. Okay,
well we'll talk about this later. We'll get to that in the next
episode as you correct them. Actually, the Steam deck is also a PC.
At this that's a that's a switcher looking at I have a Steam decker.
How great would it be if they bullied you, you know, like
they were allowed to like punch you and swirly you. That would be Oh
I want the show now now, I'm I'm all worked up now just thinking
about it. Just would be we're gonna we're gonna huddle and get back to
you on a plan, and they're just getting the SUV and they're just like,
we hate that guy. We gotta do something. Yeah. Yeah,
I think I saw Mahardy just stall out a little. And this is a
worried that I had coming on the show, which is how horny and gross.
Well m Hardy let himself be with his boss on the show. No
here, I he wanted to go. He was going to talk about getting
moist about all of this bullying, and like he really really caught himself.
There's a there's a definite an angel right now. Just be like he's not
good. Tomorrow's completely near day. That's not fire Escape, that's Polygon.
Be professional, you can do what I mean. I listened to it.
I think you know, if I was going to walk it down the door
to HR would have happened many episodes ago. Yeah, you texted me the
episode where I said Hi Chris, Hi Chelsea, right after I said I
like, I want to be a sub. So yeah, I think I've
you know, crossed the rubicon already. Yeah, I think so yeah,
I don't know, but yeah, Plant, well, Plant, I think
it's great to have you on here. Plan Like, I'm a huge fan
of the Best Season. This is like very exciting for me because I immersed
myself in a lot of games, not just with this and my my free
time but Twitch. I'm constantly watching lots and lots of people play games.
But if I have time to listen to a podcast, it's the Besties.
It's super super funny. I think it's just because it's similar to ours and
the fact that you don't have to love games to enjoy it. It helps
them. I I that's very kind. I like guesting on shows as the
least famous member of the Besties. That's my favorite part about doing it.
People are like, oh, you got a macroy on and it's like no,
and they're like, rest freshie. He's a pretty good writer, right,
And they're like no, And they're like the really nasally one who has
like bad opinions about movies, and they're like, listen, it was last
minute you were I'm sorry ailable if you don't understand, he's always available.
He was there. We opened the door and he was there. Chris Plant
has texted me every night we're about to record, be like, did anybody
drop out? Do you have a spot? And finally was in California,
and I'm just gonna say we have a guest from the Besties get all that
too. It'll be who's that Pokemon? And it'll just be like your silhouette.
It'll be a silhouette of Justin McElroy and then we'll just plaster your body
over it when it's time to reveal plant. Let me now that I have
a kindred spirit here in this regard, Let's talk about how movies are better
than video games. Okay, I don't know that's the prompt. Oh you
Oh you just wanted me to like burn through it? Yeah, go for
it. Yeah no, I mean they're good. They're communal experiences in person.
That's pretty chill. I'm cool with that. I wish there was more
of that in video games. Sometimes, um, they were like only like
an hour and a half. You know, people for movies three hours long,
and they're like, whoa too much? Game is three hours long?
And you're like people are like refunding it on Steam and having like a fucking
yeah no, I love I love short movies. That's great. We'll not
short movies. I love three hour long movies. Uh, get I get
my money's worth. You texted me recently asking if I had seen and I'm
I think this is verbatim. You texted me on like a Saturday saying have
you seen Barry Lyndon? Feel like you would love it? It's about an
Irish dirt bag. Yeah, the text those are my favorite movie, Like
I love you know, like quote art movie that Airbody is like really like,
oh you don't you don't want to watch that, It's gonna be boring.
It's like three and a half hours in Stanley Kubrick and it's from the
seventies. And then you watch Barry Lyndon and this guy is just like the
biggest dick who just cocks everybody. You're like, what what? Why didn't
anybody tell me like that? Why is that not like the name of the
movie. And then just like a photo of him shitting on people for for
the cover. You know, I think that's the only That's one of the
only Kubrick movies I have not seen. I still have not. It's it's
good. I watched Amadeus Uh this past week. Have you seen Amadeus a
while ago. Yeah, same thing. It's just I do being a huge
asshole to a guy until the guy like goes absolutely nuts, kills Wolfgang Amadeus,
motes a right, basically drives him to madness, and then he's like
in a sanatorium just laughing his ass off about how dumb Mozart was for like
getting himself killed. It's a great movie I watched. I think the Cooper
movie I rewatched the most is this is probably gonna say a lot about me.
Is the shining or eyes wide shut, okay shut, more than most
of his movies. Bad Marriages is what you're into. Yeah, it's it's
my It's my periodic escape from my very good relationship in real life. Right
Yeah, I like to escape by watching terrible families because mine is perfect.
It's just makes you feel so good. M It's just a reminder, bumbles
me, Senreud. I just pop on Criterion and go to town. Mary.
What are your like favorite movies my classic kubricks? No, no,
no, give me your real favorite movies. Um. When we talked about
this a little bit ago, and I'm trying to think of like some of
my favorites. My favorite movie of all time? Is John Carpenter's the thing.
Hell yeah, the good who done it? And I also like like
practical effects, and so that kind of saw my boxes. I saw that
recently at a movie theater, like they were showing it like a regal for
whatever reason, and it was like everyone in the crowd were clearly those like
people Saturday at four o'clock. They're showing up because it's like it was just
there, yeah and no. Like it starts and you can hear mumbling of
like the twenty people in the theater who are like, oh, why did
I what are we doing? This so old movie? And then it proceeds,
and I have never heard an audience to be more upset in my life.
Then, as that movie gets increasingly violent and once the ribcage bites a
dude's handoff, ye, people started like leaving, and it was it was
really special to see somebody leave who had like talked down about it. You
know, we're leaving because of the ribcage, were like they were horrified.
They were like the disgusting disturbed, and it's like, yeah, it's so
cool when somebody's like, oh, it's old, it's boring. I can't
believe I bought tickets and then like an hour later though, like I need
to get out of here, Like I can't handle this. Um that rules,
Like anybody, you can make something that still upsets people decades later.
It stands the test of time. And I do think that the test of
time is one of my favorite metrics. There's all sorts of metrics for films,
but a film that just holds that weight for decades is really good.
Um, Jurassic Park holds its weight, right, it stands the test of
time. You watch the original Jurassic Park, You're still like, shit,
this is good. Yeah, work, It's still still so good. And
when the t Rex comes out, everyone's freaking out. Shit. I mean,
the test of time is a totally different metric. A lot of movies
they just can't survive after five years, but especially comedies. But damn I
saw it. I saw this movie. I love like a double feature.
That is like my favorite thing in the world, Like being able to see
like two movies and then like even if they're not intended, like just saying
like, oh, it makes your brain think differently, like you have to
compare and contrast, right, And I had never seen it happened one night,
which is just all I knew. Was like, oh, old movie,
Okay, whatever, it's report thing I want to go see. I'll
catch it. It's like an hour and a half and I watch it and
I'm the only person there other than like I don't know, maybe fifteen women
in their fifties and sixties, and they're fucking there. It is killing.
They like I have not been in the theater where it's like it is just
absolutely killing with this crowd. And I was like, Wow, that movie
was great, Like I wonder when they made that, probably like mid fifties
or something, and I look it up in its nineteen thirty four and like
it's so it's a thing of like absolutely nuts. And after like I was
like, oh man, I need to read about this, and like every
writing about it is like, oh, every romantic comedy ever is inspired by
this movie and that's why it's still good and why you're familiar with it.
But it was, yes, totally jarring to see a movie and then just
like oh, yeah that was made um ninety years ago. Everyone's very dead.
Any animals in it super dead, super dead, many generations of dead.
Their puppies are dead gone. I did well, Yeah, like several
generations of puppies are probably dead. Many cats. It's so much worse for
its puppies. They didn't see it. They live full lives and then died.
That's how all that makes it better? Okay, now can breathe.
Yeah, I thought it was like, no tragedy, not right away,
not unexpected. It was a full uh you know, like that's when you
see that old woman, You're like, you lived a full life, you
like did all this stuff. It's okay if you die now. Cut to
like a puppy like getting older and like hearing salmonella poisoning or something in the
lab. It's like a really good life. He's old, he's fine now.
He vacationed in the Kocomos. You know it was great, seen it.
He fell in love, he fell out of love, and then he
found love again later in life forced Yeah, they live again, and then
he got to a point where and when he realized love was not everything.
Yeah. Wow, back to bad marriages, Like are you okay? Just
I just like eyes wide shut quite a bit, you know what I'm really
excited for? Stop making sense? Going back to theaters. Oh shit,
yeah, did you guys see that? So a little bit in the house.
I don't. Actually, I've probably talked about Talking Heads on fire Escape
at some point. They're my favorite band of all time. M wait,
really, yes, I didn't know they're a favorite. Oh M they are.
Um, gun to my head, they're my favorite. Obviously, others
pop up here and there, but talking favorite. Yeah. Dan's just actually
here in the ark. Ask him about Kansas, make him talk about Kansas.
Um. But yeah, A twenty four is. I don't know that
they're remastering it at all or anything. They're just bringing it back to the
I'm assuming they're remastering it a bit, but they're bringing it back to theaters
and one of the best. It's the best concert movie of all time.
I know that's not the biggest genre, but between that and like I guess
spinal tap also obviously crosses over into like parody and whatnot. But um,
yes, Stop Making Sense it's phenomenal. I watch it. I watch it
pretty often. And it also took me six or seven years of watching Stop
Making Sense on YouTube and then buying the Blu ray to figure out that it
was the same director as Silence of the Lambs. Jonathan and Demi dem Demi
so that like opened up a whole new world for me. And I love
Silence of the Lamb, So I'm like, I think I just like his
movies. I mean, yeah, Rachel Getting Married great film, underrated,
really no is a wrong um. It has and Hathaway as like the nastiest
possible version of Anne Hathaway, like the version of Anne Hathaway that everybody thinks
she is is her just going from broke on that. And it also has
the dude the singer from TV on the Radio in it acting and it's just
really nice. The thing about Jonathan Demi, it's weird to say this because
Silence of the Lambs he's like the most humanist director ever where he's like Frank
Capra style, like he just gets it. People have feelings and emotions that
nobody very very very few people are doing things because they're bad or evil.
They're just doing things because they're trying to get by. And he's very good
about trying to get that for like every character in this movie and Rachel Getting
Married. It's one of his later films. Wherefore he died he died really
young. Yeah, I extremely recommend it. Also Talking heads special special thing
there Mahardy, huge, huge fans in our house. My wife and I
were like megafans and didn't get to see him till like kind of like only
maybe like six or seven years ago. And then we have a five year
old and our son is autistic, and David Byrne is autistic and has been.
My son is like obsessed with him. Yeah, like absolutely obsessed with
American Utopia and with his musicum and you like stopped making sense. American Utopia
is the more recent concert than they did with Spike Lee. Yeah. Yeah.
One of my greatest regrets is that I did not see the show here
because I moved back in two nineteen. They were they were bringing it back
at the end of last year, but then something cut it short. They
only did a couple shows, But Amanda and I watch it here like that's
on loop on every Saturday at our house. One of my very best concert
experiences. It's like like it's like gutting you in to think about. I
saw American Utopia on its first tour and it came through Austin, and Stephanie
and I got deep South, as you know, and we spent more than
we've ever spent on a concert and it was worth it. We got second
row tickets front and center and it's like a sitting venue, and the row
in front of us was a family who had bought the entire front row,
and all the kids were like our age, and then it was like their
parents and then like two grandparents and they were from go sobbing, singing along.
They were up before the curtain was up, like dancing, and it
was like style. It was so magical to watch this, I mean,
one of the I mean the best show I've ever seen in my life with
an audience directing in front of you of just like oh wow, these people
are I don't know their story, but they're invested in this in a way
that's like profound to them. Yeah. The even the HBO or the Spike
Lee recording movie, when they go into the audience for the encore for Road
to Nowhere, the audience is just like losing their minds. But you can
see people in the crowd like yeah, I actually I always like David Byrne.
And then when I started being like a diagnosed etc. As neurodivergent autistic,
like I was like, I was like, oh, now I like
David Burne, even Moore just like the stuff he sings about. So much
of his music is like all of his lyrics are a much Many of them
are just about trying to be human, which I relate to very much.
And then like my favorite song of all time, it's it's extremely basic is
this must be the Place Naive melody, And it's like that song is the
epitome of him, like struggling with whether he is happy or whether he is
in a situation where a human is supposed to be happy, and the class
and that. But the song is like extremely domestic sounding and someone is trying
to convince themselves that they are in the right place or I don't know.
I think it's different every time I listen to it. But so much of
David Byrne's work throughout the years, and he well he's not an egot winner.
He would need a an Oscar, I believe, Yeah, he needs
he needs one of them. He might have got a No, he got
an oscar with everything everywhere for the best song with Oh, I wonder if
he became one with that. I think he still needs to because he's got
like how many Grammys maybe for me regardless, Um, yeah, American Utopia
one of my great regrets is that I did not see that when I got
back. I just assumed it would be here longer than it was. And
then COVID hit and they came back for about a year after it, and
then it kind of just I don't know what happened some of those You didn't
plan for a global pandemic, and that's your fault. Yeahs on you fuck
me, Yeah, And I think about these things. You guys have such
a very different relationship with live music than I do. I don't really tend
to invest in live performances, not I don't know if you live in a
killer city for it. I know and what I do like to see live
music, but I'm not really always present for it, so I'm not actively
thinking about the lyrics and what they mean and what it's like to be human.
I have very few existential realizations while I'm at a live music concert because
I'm drinking or like putson around. I remember Jake Decker, the guy who
edits this podcast. We went to a festival once and had lots of different
bands, and I thought I would go for fun and he there was Radiohead
was playing. Oh yeah, that's right. I forget the name of it
because I didn't care, and I showed up and I had a really good
time. And Jake stood outside Radiohead for five hours and to get a good
spot before they played, and he was sitting there. We knew he had
to pee and he like had to be in the front row. And I
was walking around and it turns out the Muppets were performing Electric or whatever you
want to call them. What's their electric? Mayhean electric? Mayhean? Thank
you? There was just the news thing about that today. I didn't I
saw it in slack, but I didn't read what it was about or like
a tweet. I don't know. And I got a movie they do?
Is that a new thing? There's a new movie coming out? That's what
I saw. But one of the original Muppets features them because they go to
Hollywood. The Muppets go to Hollywood, and it's all about them going to
Hollywood and they have all of the Muppets on stage performing everything. Oh yeah,
everybody was like full on animal was out there like Drummond and I couldn't
get enough. And I think that was like my favorite concert of all time.
That was also if you talk about like preciousness of experience that's like so
much more precious, precious and like the true definition sins than a Radiohead show.
We have a Radiohead you'll get to go see many more times if you
want. If you want to go see radio Head, it's available to you.
But if you want to see the Muppets live on stage, I don't
know, like there's like ten shots during your lifetime. Maybe it's a once
of a lifetime opportunity. And I kept saying to I kept saying to Shake,
Radiohead doesn't matter, and like just watch Muppets with me. And I'm
sure he loved that. Yeah, he to this. As he listens to
me retelling the story, He's probably like, yeah, that was really thanks,
Thanks Mary. That is super annoying. No, I think I think
you're right, said, like when you go to a concert, it's not
like, you know, thinking about it the cerebral part. And I think
that's like the right way to do a concert. I mean, even like
a slow movie. I love, like really boring movies. I would and
saw this movie Enisman, which is about just a woman at a lighthouse having
like visions for like an hour forty five on these like super boring garbage.
No, don't. I should not go see it. You should not see
this movie. The trailer makes it look exciting, like good horror. It
is not that nothing happens. And when I watch a movie like that,
for a long time, I would feel bad, like in college, like
I went to film school. That's why I'm an asshole, and I would
feel so horrible if I would like zone out. And I finally had a
professor who was like, no, that's the point. Like the point is
like it is meditation, and you're allowed to think about something that's going on
in your life, and like the movie will pull you back in when it
needs you, and like you are passively still taking it in and like it's
actually very good. And then you should think about it after you watch it.
But if you're thinking about it too hard during the movie, you'll get
bored and you'll get irritated. You should just like feel it, just like
ride the wave. And I think that's the same thing with concerts. Like
when I'm in him, I don't think about them at all. I'm just
probably drunk or high or something, I don't know, you know, um,
But but then like afterwards, it's like, oh, now that I
can process it, this is like my takeaway. Yeah, one of my
one of my favorite movies, if not my favorite movie of all time.
Stalker, I'm my mind's wild, yeah almost the whole time. And then
like the next day, I'm like, man, I love that movie,
even though I was like interact and then you played the video game where you
can shoot it. Yeah, And then I go watch Annihilation, the more
exciting version of Stalker. Chris, what do you think of Annihilation the Alex
Garland movie, the movie or the book? The movie? Okay, the
movie, I mean I like it. I haven't. Okay, so I've
seen it twice. Okay. One time I saw it in a theater like
in Austin. At the ala moment, like great experience, I was like,
Oh, that's a that's really upsetting. Cancer should suck um, Like
that's my metaphorical read on it. Um. And then the next time I
went and saw basically Pavement, like half the band of Pavement, uh at
this like dingy outdoor club in Austin, and it was great. And then
my friends and I laughed and were like, you know, buzzed, and
went to this bar that was basically empty, like a true dive bar on
the other side of the highway, and all that was happening in the bar
was a really sad dude was in the corner watching Annihilation with the sound off
and the subtitles on, and it was one of those things where you're like,
oh, why is that guy doing it? And then like a half
hour later you realize all of you are sitting at the bar drinking watching nihilat
and it was, Yeah, it was. It was real rough. Um
and man, the night check a real turn after that. You know,
you don't recover. Are you sure you weren't on acid having a bad trip
or some other experience added to like it? It felt real bad. We
did, We did leave and we got um, we got falafel afterwards,
and that that that that helped us rebound. Yeah right back. Yeah,
yeah. We've been back out talking about that movie on the last few episodes
because Dan and his wife revisited it and oh yeah they saw it. They
were like, and then they watched again recently like oh this is awesome because
they both like at least Bianca, I know likes ex Machina, which Amanda
and I watched last weekend. I like X makin a lot, Annihilation,
I fucking love and I like, yeah. But we talked about this recently.
I like the Southern Reach trilogy. It's based on the first book of
the Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff Vandermier. For those who haven't gotten the chance
to read it, you should. It's It's a quick read, very different
but the same general premise. I'd say, Mary, did you end up
watching it Annihilation? Yeah? Yeah. I think I was actually similar to
Dan where I saw it a long time ago and I didn't like it,
and so when they were hyping it up, I decided to watch it again.
Um, I like it a little bit more. My criticisms of it
that I mentioned were that they just didn't show enough cool merges. I wanted
to seem more weird creatures that were two creatures in one, and I feel
like I only I could only count it on one hand. I really wanted
you to go full gamergae and be like, I just don't believe that on
all women group going into here do it? Oh yeah, Scientists, okay,
ghostbusters. Anthropologists were like anthropology, these girls are hot. I can't
believe that's true whatsoever. That's very false where we're not going to go and
do it. That's like all four cases, that's the opposite of what beautiful
people the world shot women's suits. H Yeah, started inbly making fun of
gross men, and then both my hearty and I are both like wait wait
wait, wait wait, and we're judging their look. Yeah, that's right.
If we're making fun of disgusting men, those women are hot as fucking
I won't hear anything else about it. That's why I saw them, because
I was like sci fi horror, like eco parable hot babes and army suits.
Sure, I'll go throw this movie. And then I loved it.
Well, no, I thought it was fine because they had that whole last
minute scare where they only kept in theaters for two or three weeks. Pulled
it, went to Hulu, and then everybody started talking about how great it
was or more people started talking without like, uh, I forget what studio
was. It wasn't it wasn't Paramount, it wasn't that big, but yeah,
they got like kind of cold feet and then went to theaters and nobody
saw it the first weekends, so like, we were right, you gotta
pull it. It's a weird movie. He did x mock and he wrote
Sunshine like why did we bank on this guy? Like, and then it
is a weird movie. If yeah, it's a very rich producer executive producer
wearing my garbage bag, I would be like, I don't know about this
one. It's freaking weird. No, it's hard to pitch because, especially
the movie itself, they don't go out of their way to explain half of
it, which I explain anything. And you know, Americans we love when
we explain everything. All the top movies they explain everything, not once in
Avatar? Are you like? What is he feeling? They're like, I
am sad my children weren't a real pickle. We need to know what this
whale creatures feeling. I don't know. Just let him talk, but he
hasn't spoken to this point. I don't give a fuck. Makes the whale
talk. Why are they going to this guy's backyard. There's a big junkyard
dog garden. All those baseballs? What do they mean back there? Why
does that even jet want to go back there so bad? Why is he
chasing them? What's wrong with James Earl Jones? Dude? The avatar of
baseball sand Law. I knew exactly what it was doing. Oh, I
know we have to talk about games at a certain point. But well,
it's off Annihilation. So Oscar Isaac, right, he's an Annihilation. He's
not the point, but he's there. I went and saw Drive. I
hadn't seen Drive since that movie came out. Let's just say I don't have
a popular opinion of it after having watched a second time. Also, holy
shit, gen Z roasted just absolutely obliterated that movie in the screening I was
at. I never its never been in a more hostile screening than Drive,
with a whole bunch of like current college kids in the audience, and they
just had none of it, Like I mean laughing the whole movie. The
music is like seen as like cringe, I guess because it's all like millennial,
like it's old people music now. And there's a lot in that movie
that doesn't work. The digital film looks like really cheap now unfortunately. But
here's a good part. Oscar Isaac shows up in the middle of the movie
and I forgot about it and it's so good. It's a it's a movie
without characters. And then Oscar Isaac shows up. He's like, what if
I had motivation and like soul? And then they're like, oh wow,
this is really trucking along and they're like, yeah, we can't have that.
That that's too good. Yeah. He I. Of all the things
I've shown Amanda, there's been a few things I've shown her that she's like,
yeah, that was my favorite. I was like, all right,
you're I haven't watched Drive in a while, but you're gonna love it.
And we both watch it and I could barely get through it. I really
I can't. I don't like that movie anymore. I still I'm curious.
I'm curious weather Nichola is finding refin actually has made a good movie, because
I like, like, I liked Bronson a lot back in the day,
but I have not watched it since I was like twenty one. So yeah,
I have not watched Bronson in a long time. I liked The Boondock
Saints when I was sixteen, for the record, so I'm sure if I
went back to watch that it would be as bad as everybody says it was.
Bronson. I don't know the Pusher trilogy. What's the last one?
Vell Hella? Is he the most millennial director? The dude was? Who
was he talking to? Was it Charlie Rose? He was talking to and
he Charlie Rose during like the sixty minute style interview. Wait, would it
be sixty minutes? That's not Charlie Rose, is it? Well, Charlie
Rose doesn't work anymore for various reasons. Who was it? Maybe I don't
know who. That's terrible regard every time learning about sex pests, like every
twenty seconds. Nicholas finding Reffin said so, he claimed that Only God Forgives
was extremely misunderstood when it was really it's just a bad movie. And he
continually claims that it's misunderstood, and he I forget which Tarantino movie he said
it's better than. But he's like, people given like pulp fiction a lot
of praise, and whoever it was, I don't know why Charlie Rose keeps
popping out of my head. It might not be him. He's like,
are you comparing Only God Forgives to pulp fiction? He's like, I think
it's a bit better, and I'm it's I'm paraphrasing a bit. But then
he just to his face tells him like that's stupid. This this is beyond
hubris, this is just delusion and uh Man and Nicholas Finding Refin is one
of those ones. It's like, I know Pojima always talks about liking his
stuff. Yeah, you can feel it. I can feel it. He's
so good at hosting Christ for both of you. Who if you had to
pick any famous person to be in a Cogima game, who, who would
it be? David Byrne? Okay, what that happens so quickly and your
action was amazing? Okay, sure, comedy factor I don't was Okay,
Nicholas finding Refin was in Death Stranding. Yeah, that's why I brought it
up. Yeah, yeah, okay, I thought you were saying because they
were friends. Um, yeah, David Byrne would be great to pop up
in a Cogima game that doesn't make sense. I feel like you could give
a good monologue that makes sense. Humans were cells. We're just cells and
they're just moving around and we're all just here and I'm doing my best and
I know you're doing yours. But let's just see how this goes. Hey,
Hey Tina, Hey Chris, Hey Jerry can you can you can you
get one started for me and I'll sing you in. There's so much going
on. I would say it should be someone who could really ride the line
between sincere and abstract, someone that I'm not actually sure if they're acting anymore
or if they're just who they are and now they've absolutely fallen into insanity.
Is this a set up for you having a person in mind? Or is
this like it could be a range of people, But it sounds like you're
describing Nicolas Cage. Maybe Nicholas Cage ten years. What about like Randy Quaid
Quade, not Dennis No, No, Charlie Day, Charlie Days. He's
still a bit too like he's too too high comedian right now, He's not
serious enough for Luigi. He's Luigi. Yeah, he's typecast. I think
David. The more I think about it, the more I would very much
like to see David Byrne in a Cogima game. Yeah, I mean,
I you okay, if both of you showed up, you had to be
together any like you're on the in the Apocalypse, still recording a podcast and
it's not for anybody. Influencers are still a thing. Yeah, Oh,
definitely. In Kojima's version of the Apocalypse, there are two jobs, delivery
people and influencers, and they're constantly involved in each other's lives because you're you're
getting deliveries and the delivery guys are constantly getting affensd this. Okay, did
we stumble upon an actually good idea here? Yeah, that that will know
that like the one percent in the death Stranding future are influencers who like all
they do is like create content all day, which the delivery the effect with
the gig workers of Death Stranding listen to and that's what keeps them distracted while
they live their life of delivering things to influencers. At the minimum. This
is an episode of Black Mirror. Yeah, it's some real dark, awful,
horrible stuff. Um well that they need each other to live because the
influencers aren't allowed to stop recording because then they lose their influence, which means
they have to get everything delivered because they can never stop influencing. George Saunder's
short story. But in George Saunder's short story there would be some some deep
dive into human nature and ultimately optimistic ending. I don't know how you think
that's optimistic and not in Black Mirror and Black Mirror even no matter how nice
it seems like it could be, at the very end, they're like Grandma's
dead. She was dead the whole time, the most Liberation day. George
Saunder's newest collection was basically Black Mirror, but again a bit more lighthearted.
I know that, like Mahardy is supposed to be like the snobby one,
like that's part of the comedy here. Yes, but it's not a George
Saunder's story. It's and Garry Steinart story. So what's not Sorry, who
are we talking about? Gary Steinar? I don't really know Gary Steinar stuff
that much. Yeah, this is super sad love story, but it's okay,
that's from twenty ten. And you are a baby then just a mere
padawan skills. Don't be a dumb dumb then then we won't have anyone left
to do their roles. Stop sucking with our archetypes. Why am I smart?
Now? Oh wait what that's not funny. There's a there's almost again
he got and plug him back in getting worried about it. I don't want
to have to see Plant in a meeting tomorrow after having said no, please
do please go please, I'm changing course real, No, you have to
say it because now the listeners will be upset, and I'm like, oh
man, it sucks when he's on the show, and I don't get that's
unfiltered. Yeah, that my hearty guy. Do you feel a bit censored?
And I'm a bit of a badass, so you can't really send No,
that's a that's my mac quote. Um uh huh, I was when
are you gonna I don't remember what I was gonna say. Now he's changing
to change the subjects. Didn't know what you were gonna say. It takes
when we were talking about squear eyes for my young man getting bullied, Mike
coming out of it, and he wouldn't admit it. He wouldn't talk about
it. We know that's wheart was going, Mike. I love to get
bullied, okay, and yes, and oh it makes you and it makes
me think about games. What are you playing? It's a little game called
Resident Evil, redsident Evil. Can I interest you in a nice gruner to
compliment your redsident Evil? Of course? Sure. For those of you who
perverts who were wondering what I was gonna say before the break, is that
I like yogurt up my butt. Mary, you've been playing Tera nil,
I don't be there. Tell me about Tera Nil. That's kind of like
one of those how do they get the toothpaste in the toothpaste tube, you
know what I mean. And it's just like it's so sticky, like you
can't get it in there. You goaded me and goaded me. And now
I'm telling you what I was thinking and what I was refraining from saying.
Well, I really appreciate you going the extra for us. I love the
visual Tarannil is a game about fixing the soil and planting trees, speaking of
a meditative experience. Much like your advice, I think you have to ride
the wave and zone out when you play this game because it is never exciting
and nothing that interesting happens except towards the very end. So let me like
paint this picture. It's just a dirt mound, there's nothing on it.
And you plant a windmill which gives you electricity, and then you plant machines
that can clean the soil, put down some grass, maybe put down some
water in the rivers and the valleys and the nooks and stuff like that,
and slowly but surely you add pieces to this environment that will add life to
it. Bee hives on the trees. An interesting thing that they encourage you
to do is burn that shit down. They actually give you a burning device
and it burns the forest, but then that creates rich ash, and then
the rich ash becomes a very lush forest, and even better forest than what
you were able to create fow. You know, I wanted the terminology for
it, but I'll never forget the first time I burnt down my entire forest
and they called it a controlled burn, and I was like, there's no
control, it's all burnt. You never forget your first forest. You never
forget your first controlled burn. I was shocked at it all. But slowly
but surely, you build up these forests, and you ensure that the water
is clean, and you addle these like elements to it. You actually change
the atmosphere, so you add um a device that seeds, which encourages more
moisture into the air, so you can get more moisture in the air.
You burn certain forests so that it increases the temperature, because your temperature needs
to be higher for certain animals to exist. And then at some point you're
like, it's pretty green out there. I think I've done it. The
cool part is once you've cultivated your environment and it is very much yours,
mine would look very different than yours. We're all achieving the same things.
But where you plant your rivers, your rocks, your trees, what you
burn, that's up to you. Baby. Once you do that, you
scan for plant an animal life and it will give you the who's that pokemon
silhouette of an animal and they will say to you, this animal really likes
dense forests, but it also needs to be by a river, and it
also needs to be by a cliff side. And if you have that in
your environment and you scan it, all of a sudden, there's a fucking
bear there and he's like rolling around and he's shaking his barebut against trees and
stuff, and he's in your environment walking around. He's not he's just he's
doing normal that part. Yeah, they didn't do any extras. There's no
no dizzy, none of it. No these just a regular bear. He
does clip through the walls sometimes. Um, and it's pretty fun so to
get excited about these creatures. So I got really stoked when they were like,
this creature should be in shallow streams, it has to have lily pads
and these types of environments, and it has to be by forest, and
I didn't have it. So I cultivated it. I made sure I had
all the elements scanned it. Again. Beavers, they're in there, swimming
around being super cute. It was really fun. So once you get like
the bears and the beavers and they're literally in your environment like having fun.
The last component is where this game really lost its way. I was stoked
like part one building an environment I was in. I was like, this
is boring, but I'm really zennd out. I'm having a good time.
I'm riding the way too. Animals. I love them. I love these
beavers. I'm just so excited that they're with me on this journey. And
then yeah, Mike my notes. And then they say, well, now
you got to remove humanity. So you built all these machines so that you
could raise the temperature, raise the moisture in the air, all of your
machine ear windmills, these are all this is all trash, is human trash.
So get it out of there. And they give me these garbage cans
to get rid of all of my man made materials, and so I start
throwing away all my crop and then they're like, now you got to get
the boat to go pick up your garbage. And I was like, the
what And they were like, put a boat in the water. The boat
will go to all your garbage cans and pick up your garbage cans. And
I was like, what if I put a garbage can in the middle of
a field. And they were like, well, you got to build a
river so that the boat can get to the garbage can and throw away your
garbage. And I was like, I have to destroy. Maybe not like
in tradition terms. I think I was destroying, but I had to all
her my final product with my bears and my beavers and put rivers in the
middle of a field to pick up a trash can via boat, which is
apparently the only fucking way you're allowed to do it. It feels like more
damage to the ecological environment. It's actually funny you say that. I do
think it reflects the human condition, which is kind of like that Simpsons episode
where they're like, there's too many lizards, so we're gonna need to get
the monkeys to eat the lizards. But now we're overwhelmed by monkeys. But
good news, We're going to get barracudas to eat the monkeys, and then
in the winter, the barracudas will freeze to death and then it's solved.
Right. Humans can't fix things because we keep putting shit in the environments and
altering it to our women, making it worse. Removing me from that environment
is extremely complicated, and it's just not joyous. It's just like shit,
I got to alter my environment. It's puzzle solving, but not in a
fun way. It's how am I gonna get this goddamn boat on this cliff
side? I didn't know they were gonna make me do that? How many?
Okay? So, like if you're like you were putting a score on
it and I'm not, I'm not making you use them. I'm kind,
I'm just throwing one out. You want me to remove scores from Polygon and
brings them back on to find No, no, no, no, I
need to give I need to give a score for a question. Like so,
let's say it's like out of tin and you're like, this is like
a six. Let's say it's out of ten. Yeah, let's say it's
out of tin and let's say this is a six? Right? Sure?
If if I created a mod so that when you did the who's that Pokemon?
It was Dan, our friend Dan in a bore at body thong,
just like lounging in a river, but making the sounds like a beautiful beaver.
Never would that get you? Would it get them? Another point?
Absolutely? Um, mods could really benefit Uh, this game could really benefit
from mods. I also think that a Dan's natural and vironment is a wood
area next to a river and a taco bell. And so I was gonna
say, wait, can you imagine a worse environment for some For someone of
Dan's just like personality, then a completely de commoditized world is nothing immediately dies
within like because these are like just immediate death in twenty four hours. Sounds
like removing red wine from the world, and like my hearty just dehydrates,
like I could survive. On White's Thank You Very Much. I know the
song nothing but Flowers Talking Heads. It's basically written by Dan Riker. There
was a pizza, No, it's all covered in daisies. As someone whose
favorite games or yeah, I guess, someone whose favorite games are often about
fucking up and then seeing how things play out from there. The thing it
gives me pause about Tara neill Is. I've heard several people. Cole Clark
at Polygon wrote are really good review for it on Polygon if you go read
it. One of the things she points out and her and I share this
is that we really like when you fail in a game like Door Fortress or
fucking Wildermith, Middle Earth Shadow. I don't know you get what I'm saying.
Emergent gameplay. It sounds like you actually have to straight up restart this
game because you can fuck up and not know why and then you're just stuck
and you don't have X resource to do why and then make Z happen,
so you just have to restart. That does not sound like what I want
out of this kind of game. Like Factorio, I feel like it was
very good about even if you didn't have the most minmaxed factory assembly line,
you still could get something out of it and maybe make a new little branch
off of it to like further optimize things. Is that accurate about Tara Nille
that you do have you can straight up fail. I didn't fail, but
I'm super good at games. I think possible that. Yes, I could
see a situation I was shocked to see. Once you build stuff, it's
really hard to undoum and everything costs money, so you don't want to just
build Willy nilly, But a part of the the joy of altering dirt and
turning it into something green and lush and beautiful is not stressing about how many
squares you're getting for your grass machine. You just kind of want to be
like and now I'm at in grass. It sucks that it's always pushing me
to think a lot about minimaxing and design when at the end of the day,
what I'm doing is just esthetically pleasing. Yeah, I think this is
the failure of Like, I think the assumption with video games is that people
like power fantasies, right, Like you hear that all the time of like,
oh, I love video games because they give me they give me all
this power. But I think it's it's quie literally the exact opposite, which
is closer to what both of you are saying of. They give you the
freedom to fail and for learning from it is either as pleasurable as a previous
experience or even more so, and like that is a version of power.
But I think when you get obsessed with power, like pure power, you
actually make bad games because there's no balancing or like this, like you know,
you're a racing humanity off the planet you're creating this alternate world. Very
cool, but like, where's the pleasure in failing along the way? How
how does that become fun? Because I'm going to fail, Like that's what
a narrative arc is. Oh my ash, I'm getting so in the weeds.
But like you know, it's like failing and then try and again and
failing and try and again. That's like you're just natural storytelling. And I
think I think when I see a game not click, that is often the
mistake that they're making is missing out on It needs to feel good to like
to mess up. I mean, like, oh, it's like the obvious
first level of Mario, the classic example, right that the first time you
have to jump over a pit there's no pit, right, you have to
jump between platforms, but you can land safely. And they it's an understanding
of hey, the first time we teach you this, it can't suck,
like, it can't be a punishment. It has to be fun to learn
and then to feel like you accomplish something. Otherwise you'll just, I don't
know, jack the cartridge and throw it into the sun and then we'll never
get to Super Mario Brothers movies. Yeah, I don't know that's such a
good example. Honestly, I think that there's so many times this game said,
what do you mean you didn't know about the boat. It's just like,
we've never discussed the boat. Yeah, we never discussed the boat.
You didn't tell me I needed to build a boat. I wouldn't have put
my trush can in the field if I knew that they had to be collected
by a boat and none of the seen water world, you know how this
goes build water stupid And I was like, okay, but like the whole
thing, I felt like the game assumed that I was smarter than I was.
The next level was even meaner, to the degree where I was like,
all right, I don't know if this is for me, because and
I love the creation aspects. So I just want to reiterate, if you
love creating, you actually might enjoy this game. And to Mike's point,
if you really like Factoria, you might like this game because it is very
fun to construct or deconstruct in this game. As it is in the second
level, they have mono rail systems and they're built on a series of poles,
and so you put these poles down and then they're like, yeah,
those polls, you're gonna need to put a monorail on there so that you
can build your forest. And I was like, okay, whatever, So
I put monorails everywhere so that it's easier to build my forest. And then
at the end they're like, you got to clean up all these monorails,
and your cleanup system is a monorail system. And I was like, if
you told me that at the beginning, I would have done this totally differently,
but you didn't, and now I look like a fool. And I
have like a Disney theme part going on in my forest and I can't get
rid of it. I'm all over this place. There's more humanity, then
there's bears, and I can undo it. That's a Talking Head song too.
Mmmmmmmmmm. I think Tina Weymouth wrote that one. Yeah, yeah,
good poll. I think I ended up signing off after that one, but
I still think it's cool. I think that's fair. Did you play a
steam deck No? I played it on Oh I sorry. I played it
on my computer and I streamed it. I found it to be nice to
stream because a lot of people were extremely I love that people are very accommodating
when I make mistakes in a game and they're like, try it this way.
No one like thinks I'm a ding dong, and think it helps motivate
me that I'm not as dumb as I think I am. When I make
a mistake in a game, a lot of people would make that mistake,
and everybody kind of rallied to be like, yeah, it's not the game
that's wrong. Sorry, it's not you. You know it's not. It's
no chat, leave me alone. They were not being nice. They were
nice, but yeah, I played it on I played it on PC,
I played on Steam. M I still want to I want to try it.
Um. This is where I get into weeds. I guess I've been
since watching The Last of Us on HBO, which we talked about last episode,
which I think is a a good show at parts, but a fine
show overall, but not in like a fine like a British guy would say,
but just like an egg like a fine Um yeah okay, I or
like Hemingway would say, it's a fine story. It's true, and it's
fine, okay, let's keep it wrong. I think I got into a
meditative state just then. I want to play Tarannell because I've been. I've
been like reading that kind of stuff about um, like terraforming Earth or a
planet after a climate apocalypse, and that stuff is kind of fascinating and maybe
a bit cathartic because it's more optimistic than a lot like post apocalypse fiction is
um. So I want to play from that perspective, but I don't.
I'm not like Champion at the Bit to play that game from. Like,
can you say Champion at the Bit? Yes, No, that's not how
it goes. That's the phrase, I promise you. No. I learned
it because I said it wrong. Helped me. I said it. I
was gonna make fun of him, but I was like, man, he
said it with confidence. Have you ever felt more like something was a trap
for us? Grin he gave while he said it all the time, he
literally and the listeners can't see it. He was like, so I was
video we got some if champing at the bit? Oh no, I we
have video. Oh. I mean they're gonna see how blown out and embarrassing
I am and just adjusting the whole time. That's what they pay for in
the video tier. Oh my gosh, I said it incorrectly on a beast
cast and Alex Navarro corrected me, and I believe it. It's about it's
the horses the bit in their mouth. Then know what it fucking means.
It's just what we know what bit is champing? I don't. You're like,
you're like, oh, it must be bit that has you confused.
It's when they're like, you're champing it. Wherever? Have you have you
ever m have you ever had a chewing tobacco? Your champ at it?
No? No, not a baseball player or like a criminal? Is that
your your idea of a criminal? As someone? Just don't step on the
power button please, You're literally almost stepped on it on as I nudged her
off. It's championed the bit. I learned that the hard way because I
said, I choose pointed out. But yeah, Tarannil, I'll try it
out. My final stands on Tarail is that I do genuinely believe that the
first two acts are a delight. It's really fun to clean up soil and
water and grow plants and watch your area flourish. It's super fun to scan
for life and have it be like you don't have enough water and I'm like,
Okay, I'll make more water in this environment and then all of a
sudden, whale. It's really fun. It's super cool to be like,
let there's a whale there now because I I planted more water. I don't
know how else you add water, you pour it anyway. I think that
part is great. And I'm sorry, well you're talking. I tried to
raise my chair and I just sunk like three feet and sorry, Jesus Christ
slowly getting smaller and smaller. Uh no, I I think you're right,
whales. I think you're small we I think we can all agree, whales
plan. Um. Would it be accurate to say that you're not normally into
JRPGs? Well, no, I'm not into turn based, turn based world
playing games. Turn based, yes, because I like I like Final Fantasy
seven remake. I like Tales of a Rise. Yeah. Um, but
if you if you make me um grind or if you make me oh man,
if you make me turn based trying to go back and play that Final
Fantasy six pixel you make And I was like, you know, it would
be more fun than this Every traveler too anything? Oh yeah, good?
Then I see good. Transla plan leave the transitions to me. Um okay.
Octopath Traveler Too. He's leaving Coalition by coalition of Polygon Quickly form to
let other people know that that game rules. And I've been blowing that horn
every day as often as I can on the fire Escape cast. What do
you what do you think of Octopath Traveler Too? I think you like it?
Um, yeah, I think I think it's a great game. I
was very I was very skeptical. Um. I was skeptical because you like
a lot of boring games that take too much time, and I don't have
a room in my life for boring games or games that take a lot of
time. Sadly, game I like, if it has Warhammer at the front
of it, it's probably on that list. Those games are actually probably really
good. But I would you know, it's like it's a defense mechanism.
I know I don't have time to play it, so I decide that it
is bad. Yeah, it's the reverse of like Buyer's justification, right,
opposite of that. Yeah, because I would be sad. It's like you're
telling you there's a great thing in the world and I don't get to enjoy
it. No, Instead, it's horrible. And that's how we have a
video game fanboys yeah, you know sample that. Anyway, the game is
great. I was skeptical and I am wrong, and I have been trying
to figure out why I like it because not every movie, but a lot
of yous say two things. One, hey, it's like a classic turn
based RPG, and I'm like, no, thank you, And they're like,
and what if I told you the stories suck? And it's like,
wait, they're eight of them and they stink. Man, you're like really
twisting my arm. Yeah. But oh and I hope, I hope,
I hope our dear listeners are ready for some real bullshit here. The stories
are good. Not only are the stories good, I think the stories are
like extremely intelligent and how they are picked and positioned. And I think the
game is extremely clever on a narrative level and does not get nearly enough credit
for it because I think it's easy to mistake something that is simple, or
maybe the dialogue is like in j Any playing English for being like mediocre or
bad and not like, oh, there's actually a profound degree of intentionality happening
here. Yeah. The first games, Yeah, the first game is very
much traveling this donut continent, recruiting eight characters, doing their first chapter and
then you kind of see where it's going from there, and all of their
stories followed the same exact plot, and I still think Octopath Traveler to repeats
a lot of similar points. But I do like it way more for how
it manages to weave all of them together, but not necessarily all eight at
once, like I recruited. I think I got the chapter four three with
some of the characters, which is fairly far in before I had gotten actually
recruited all eight of them. The fact that they figured out how to count
for that is extremely impressive to me, Like the Right with the Reds,
and like they have this get a jail free card in that when you go
to a town and you start to pursue oh Chet the Hunter's second chapter,
for instance, in the cut scenes and the actual scripting, she's the only
one there. The other characters you're with vanish obviously in the fights and the
boss fights there you have all four of them. However, I don't mind,
because it's there. It's so smart about you go to a new town
and the first thing I want to do is explore and get the lay of
the land, and you have an option, it'll say do you want to
pursue Oswald's third chapter, you could start it right now. We'll have a
character come up to you after a fade, a dip to black, and
then he'll say, like, Oswald, where have you been or whatever.
You could just say no, explore the town, and then you go to
the coffee house later in the cafe or whatever and say, I want to
hear a towel, and then you could pick it and it goes back to
that character's towel in that chapter. And I really enjoy how I could sue
one character for like their arc for three chapters without even worrying about others,
and you're still ranking those characters up alongside that one character you're pursuing, But
there's way more freedom in It feels more like Sam barlow game just came to
mind, and I kind of want mortality. It feels like you can pursue.
It feels like her story, where you can pursue one thread. You're
like, this threadis story hers, and you can her story? Whose story?
Sam Barlow's game? Her story? Which one? It's the it's the
one of the story. It's Sam Barlow made it hers? Oh, who's
her story? There? It is okay, and you can pursue one thread
for a while. It's like this thread now she's playing a guitar, and
then you search guitar and you keep going that way. I feel like you
could pull it threads and octopaths traveler too, and it won't unra level in
a way that the strings I think is a metaphor. You're going for play
a few You could play a few chords. Now there's no uh huh,
there's no leave. His dynamic is perfect. I see sharp, Um,
you be flat. I can't contend with your theater metaphors. Were'd you a
theater major? That's not theater, that's just chords only theater majors. Sorry,
it will play piano. Oh wait, wait, wait wait, I'm
gonna speak it. I'm gonna speak in your language. Now. I know
that you love books, so I prepared some book talk. In that book
talk, I mean bo okay, okay, um, okay. Here here's
here's where I am. I have played Mary's not doing okay um. I
have played four characters. I have four characters. I collected four characters.
I started without chet. You mentioned already, who is just Pokemon? And
that's how the game should sell itself. They should have said we made a
game with eight characters. One of them is Pokemon. You can start there,
yeah, and then you you go like, oh yeah, I'll do
that. Then I'll have fun. Um oh, chet just captures any character
that you come across. You can. You can capture them, and then
you can throw them back at other random people. So like, well,
what am I gonna do with this big olass iguana. I'm gonna capture it
and then I'm gonna go up to strangers in the street even and they're like,
I'm loan from my lost daughter. I can't find her, And I'm
like, you know what I think you should do? Eat a seguana's ass.
And then it's not an iguana. It's an iguana dual wielding daggers.
And then he spits poison as well. What's up with his ass though?
Oh? I mean that's the question, right, Yeah? She can that
be your next T shirt? Up with his ass though? And it's just
an iguana with two daggers. That's from the back. I've always wanted air
with the back design. Oswald is uh Osbaldimore, Count of Monte Cristo.
Okay, so wait I wrote I wrote these down the which ones I think
they are? Chet Is okay, okay a chet is Greek drama or like
a class very like ancient drama hunting down, and that you like mythical monsters.
Yeah, yes, And there's like some like mythical idea of the apocalypse,
and you have if you like, complete these tasks will stop it.
Yeah, throne a who is a thief and who has to seek revenge in
a city against um or like two parent figures, is Dickens okay um Oswald
who you mentioned who is a like prisoner at a labor camp. I think
you're right though. Who I wrote down is souls Neetson with like one day
in life of Ivan Denisovich and then um there. Then the last one I
got was this like religious detective, which is just straight up Bernico is naming
the rose pentiment type of stuff. So well, I think it's brilliant about
this game. It's like you don't have to know any of those because all
the things that I mentioned are so popular that if you are so like in
the firm and of popular culture that if you've watched like Simpsons, you've come
in contact with all four of those unwittingly right, and that when you play
this game, you have to manage it at minimum eight full stories plus side
stories plus everything else, right, And that's like a ton of stuff to
carry in your head. So what I think it's brilliant about the game is
that it's not complicated and that it is using these extremely extremely familiar stories that
are all very very different in terms of their inspirations. And then like whether
you know it or not, you actually kind of already know the story and
you can carry it and you can enjoy it and get like by doing that.
Then when you meet all the characters, because you can like learn the
backstory of every single character the game, that which is like wild, right,
Like you can read their mind to learn their backstory with a certain character.
Um. So, because you can carry like the main eight characters in
your head, then when you like come across people in the world, like,
that's the to me, Like, that's like where the weirdness and the
interestingness actually comes. Yeah, it's trafficking in tropes just enough where you can
pick back up a story that you might have not pursued for like ten hours,
Like oh right, I remember this one. This is like that dark
soul's ish. He's like an inquisitor kind of priest, and he's got this
sidekick who was the what's don Quixote's sidekicks name? I forget it? Windmill
Ncho thank you, um, which they talk about Resume four, him and
him and Luise call each other, Yeah, I'm sorry. Wind mill is
really good and resume four. You're going toward a windmill at the beginning,
and then m Louise and him start talking about don Quixote and each other like
accusing the other of being Even if we have to pause, I can issue
an extreme apology. The name of the character is not Poncho at all.
No, no, no, it is Sancho Panza. Thank you. I've
blended them together into a now horrible like you share. It's yeah, Sancho
Panza, one name please. Samanos and this guy have a similar relationship and
they Octopath is very good about using tropes to a like meaningful end with those
stories. I think I like that game a lot. Also, the combat
is just snappy as fuck and just oh yeah, it can be as simple
as you want it to be if you're playing on like a lower difficulty,
but if you want it to be hard. It can be pretty tough because
enemies can there's so much quality of life. That's why it doesn't even feel
like turn based combat in my head as I'm playing it, because it's so
snappy and so crunchy, and like the whole like build you know, break
a character armor effctually and then just like pummel them. M feels so good
and I don't know it's I feel like it's taught me to play turn based
games. I'd be very curious to go and play like something more traditional after
this, because I find myself for the first time playing a turn based game
and like really setting up characters in like kind of builds and figuring out like,
oh, I know about how long it takes to deplete my health,
so I can get three moves in before I need to use some sort of
like healing spell. And if I do these three moves, like, that's
my only shot at actually getting this creature who's like two levels higher than me
killed, which I just don't. I have not traditionally played a turnbassed game
that way. I think I've just played it as like a hit the bad
bit they button, you know, I just keep hitting it. But difficulty
low and then get through it, and the fact that they have figured out
a way. I mean, I haven't played the game more than once yet,
so I can't say what it's like to not start with Oswald and then
move south. But the fact that I talk to other people and everybody says
like, yeah, once I got four characters, the synergy kind of stuff
was awesome. Like the fact that the group compositions work no matter what order
you go in through that world is super impressive. And that's like, I
go back to that when I'm thinking about want or when I want to play
that game and I'm thinking about going back to it, I'm not really thinking
about I want to see what happens with Tomano's next. I'm like, I
just want that combat and I want to keep unlocking this thing with Castide the
Apothecary, which will help me more with Oswald's being squishy. But then the
story helps a lot. Do you think that some stories are more appealing than
others? In your brief descriptions of what they're going through, Religious Detective sounds
fascinating, and you know, Poncho like take it or leave it? Like
I'm not sure if I understand if like I would be excited to play all
these different characters or like learn about all their stories, you are, I'm
sure some are better than others. Yeah for me, Yeah, I'm finding
there's two or three that like stick out in my head. There's one Hikari
the Warrior, which is uh, I don't know what the direct parallel would
be. That's very much like to me, it's like Samurai cinema, but
I know the story the plot points they're pulling from are older than that.
But his is kind of his I think gets better the more I play it.
It's very much like he was part of this like warmongering clan and he
was like, oh, maybe we could just be the first family to bring
peace to this realm. And then his brother who is this also the game
is just fucking gorgeous, and each of these characters that are a little pixel
pixel figures in fights become this massive uh like much more detailed sprite, I
guess. But um, regardless, I'm definitely finding that someone like Tomanos or
someone like Oswald, I'm their stories are the ones I'm most excited when I
walk into a town and see that any losers though any like kno good stories.
Don't say oh chet, don't say it, oh chet Pokemon. Oh
chets is? Oh chets is simple. It's like like it's if you had
to score the stories scale oh chet, like a scale of maybe let's say
ten, oh chet. Story is setting out to capture the three legendary Pokemon.
Yeah, what number is oh chet ten? And would it be better
if it had Dan in it in a bodybine and you collect him? Oh?
Oh, it would definitely be better, s thank you. Yeah,
And he's a shiny so you gotta definitely gotta get him because he's a special.
It's like winking, Yeah, you captured the giant. Poke him out,
and then he's he crawls out and shouts, my wife does a fish
like regurgitate him. And then he points at the fish and he's like,
my wife, No, the fisher didn't have this symbiotic thing like he sometimes
just comes out of the fish's mouth. The fish is fine with it.
Yeah, And he goes back in afterwards, face first. He's like,
all right, I gotta go, I gotta taco bells here, and then
he dives into the fish. He doesn't get he shouldn't go face first.
He gets voluntarily slurped back up by his tippy toes. Bye bye. That
sounds great, that sounds super memorable. I feel like they really messed up
on that one. Yeah, they really. I was very confused when that
whole plot line popped up in the game. I texted Dan. I was
like, what, I didn't know you're an Octopath too. Um. Yeah,
I like Octopath too quite a lot. That's the game I'm I think
that's my favorite game this year so far. Wow, for sure. I
want to go back to between everything else. I liked Resume before quite a
bit, but Octopath. Man. The only problem is so many good games
coming out, you know, like, it's like, it's my favorite game
in the year so far. Well, I don't know, pioming there,
um, But then then you got the Zelda game coming up, you got
the Starfield. There's some big ones coming up. I haven't started playing Grim
Grimoire, which I know both of you are just you can't wait. We're
Champion Grimoire bit Mary? Were you and I? For listeners who don't know,
we used to play through all the Reside Evil games together, Yeah we
did. We had I think some accounted. I think we're this is season
sixteen. It's crazy. So Mary just had never really played a resumeval game
as of eight years ago. Whenever I met you seven Yeah, so I
was like, all right, well we'll just rip off metalic here Scanlin,
and I'll guide you through resideval games. And that was what it was at
first. Then it gradually evolved into me just sitting there shooting the ship with
her and sometimes helping her, sometimes guiding her toward a walkway that I knew
would collapse. So we finally Mary held off on playing Resume before a remake,
so we started recorded or we recorded the first episode, so you got
to you got through the village, You got through the windmill section to the
Windstall village is spectacular. It's spectacular. It's so perfectly crafted to mess with
you. I remember some pieces like how the two buildings there's a hay barrel
in between them, so you can't walk through two buildings, which is super
evil. But they kind of upped that Auntie this year by just like really
in sing no matter what corner you'd go down, it could be a dead
end and absolutely ruin you when the guy with a chainsaw comes out because you
don't get second chances with that guy. Yeah, well, well it's true.
There's no half chainsawed there, so that's okay. That's what's I think
is actually pretty brilliant about what they did here. You we ended the first
episode when the Chief you unlocked, you unzipped the bag and Louise was in
there, and then the Chief found you through at the wall. You're unconci
injected you with the last plagas. There's a lot there are a lot of
new mechanics that they do not teach you for that first revised village fight that
you're about to learn that make the rest of the game feel much more like
you are this actual action star who knows how to parry stuff and when to
kick and when to dodge and when to like duck yeah crouch. They don't
tell you that before that first village fight, and I was pissed about it
at first. However, the more I kept playing, the more I'm like
that first fight wouldn't have been nearly as terrifying the first time career if well,
oh, I have a question. So I have played every mainline Resident
Evil game, big time fan. Ever, since my parents wouldn't continue you.
My parents wouldn't let me get Resident Evil two. I played Resumeal one,
and then we went to go to resume get Resuval two at Babbages.
And then the guy at Babbages saw me and he said, ma'am, your
son is too young for this, and she said, nobody's ever said that,
so it must be that it must be really bad. So then I
was like, whoa, okay, whatever, I'm gonna play everything else.
So like take that played resume two. But Resident Evil four I missed because
I was in college at the time, studying. I was in New York
City. I'm walking. I don't know the Resident than Evil. I'm a
metropolitan evil more like John F. Kennedy. Where's my taxi? I got
a flight to catch Catholic church. Um put great gardens. I'm not just
East coast krusty New Yorker. Character is real good. Yeah a storia um
uh. I just got like Transylvanian there for oh my gosh, wait wait
wait wait wait okay. So one time there's this absolutely horrible hurricane that hit
New York and get bad that I say this. This is this is a
very like old of oox media. Horrible hurricane hits New York. We lose
power on Manhattan Island. I do not have power for days. I walk
across the all of New York, all of Manhattan, across the bridge into
Deep Brooklyn to stay with a friend. I'm like, great, this is
so good. And then I'm where they have power and Chris Grant was like,
hey, there's power near Madison Square Garden and that's where office is.
We need you to go shoot a video with Rush fresh stick that nobody will
watch. I'm like, great, I'll walk in. That's a good idea.
I walk in. It is absolute chaos getting into a more or less
completely abandoned Manhattan. I get in a car. In a car, I
hitchhike, straight up hitchhike, using my Midwest skills. I get in a
car with this dude and he's like telling me about how he's a photographer and
how he like makes love to all these beautiful models and all this stuff.
And I'm like, wow, you seem like a really interesting guy. And
this is like mid October, and I'm like you seem a really interesting guy
and he's like, yeah, I am. And I was like, oh,
you know, where are you from? And he's like I was like,
are you from? Like around here and he's like, no, I'm
from Transylvania. And I said, that's so funny. I watched Dracula last
night and he slammed on the brakes and I hadn't watched Dracula last night.
I wasn't being mean. Rather breaks from the middle of the bridge and told
me to get out and rock Wait. Wait a minute, was it from
Romania or Transylvania. I'm pretty sure he said Transylvania, because I can't It's
crazy. I don't think many people are from Transylvania. But that's very funny
that I am like positive he said Transylvania because I wasn't being mean. I
was like, I was like, it was truly like it was the first
time. I was like, oh wow, that's how one of fun coincidence
because I had watched He's like this, so you can't break. Well,
of course you're gonna bring up Dracula. I mean, one could have been
spicier. You could have been like, I just watched Rocky Horror Picture Show
last night. Yeah, they love guys one of Transylvania. I was in
people from Transylvania effort and you said, sure, I watched the most famous
things set there, and he I just googled what is Transylvania known for it?
And the top result is bloodthirsty vampire pires. So like, he was
obviously mad because he kicked you out, But did he mention anything to you
about it? We're not at all vampires? Like, what did he say?
And then he turned around and the clouds broke for just a second and
the son hit him and his skin burned, and I was like, whoa,
wa, woa, whoa. There are like as many people in Transylvania
as Syracuse. Get get out of wiki. I'm just at a dodge.
If I would have assumed there were far fewer, or I literally just did
twenty seconds ago assume there were far fewer. So apologies, so Transylvanians who
are listening, What did he recommend doing? Was he like, before he
got really pissed at you, was he just like, well, before you
got pissed to me, he was talking about the joy of being a photographer
who gets to sleep with beautiful women. That was pretty much all he wanted
to tell me about. And you talked to me about skin moisturizer, which
would make sense if you were the undead. Yeah, do you have a
bag of five thousand. Yeah, did you have a bag of dirt near
his feet? They need their home so hung near them at all times.
Yeah, that was good. That See, that's some real that's some real
vampire lore. I don't get the hot dog car red Dracula in a while.
Wait, wait, wait, I want to go back to what Marry
was talking about. I like the idea of him giving me advice. I
like that he's like, don't go to Halal Guys on fifty third Street.
It's the one on the other corner. That's the real Halal guys. Now,
let me suck your blood. That's the He's a true new Yorker,
a true New york I love anti jokes where it's like, what are he's
saying? Has nothing to do with him being a vampire, what's the what's
the It was on SNL it was John shake Shock used to be good,
defended to was only in Union Square, I got you, which was never
there. It was a trick. It was Brian Park You are a fake
New Yorker. Let me suck your blood. This accent I can't place it.
I'm like, I'm all over. When John Millenny and Bill Hayter are
talking about like the Jewish vampire. He's like, what's the Jewish vampire's name?
He's like Sydney apple bomb has nothing to do with him being a vampire.
I love anti vampire jokes. Well not, I love anti Oh wow,
sorry cancel, sorry vampires. Oh but Mary, really really quick one,
Mary, you played that. I recommended what the hell's it called?
Have a Nice Death? I had memory of you talking about I'm not playing
that that game? Fine? Oh I brought it up and Dan said that
he wouldn't play I Have a Nice Death because it looks like Hollow Night,
Oh that old chestnut. First of all, have a Nice Death is gorgeous.
And when you tell me a game and I've never heard of it,
I typically google it just so that I can see it. I just want
to see what I'm thinking about. And Have a Nice Death is so pretty.
The animation style and the visual style of the world building is really thoughtful.
So you're death, like, yeah, you're death, but you're also
like death doing paperwork, which I think is very cheeky and funny every time
you die. It even has some good audio effects that's just like welcome back
to the Afterlife. Yeah, it's got like some cheeky tunes to it.
That part of the game is really good. But I think I've been realizing
that I am judge about aesthetics of a game and whether or not they've thought
things through. And I really judged the game that you did recommend to me
because it looks like a child made it, and I just over it.
I love thought things through. Like the problem with hatch Quest is not that
like that it has arn't that you don't like, is that it was their
fault for not thinking about this one. Are you not think that we would
like it? They didn't think that's true. They forgot They asked every question
except for wait, should it not look so bad? It was one guy
who made it. He doesn't have any editors to ask me. I love
that you picked on this game one like seven years an actual miracle. You're
like, yeah, but do you think about not making it's so shitty?
Lucky walked on water? Did he have water skis? Did he did he
ever think that maybe he should have just like fucking swam like the rest of
us. I could have seved this game turned all that water into wine.
Uh sorry, I want beer? Maybe I just wanted water. I would
have stopped in the middle of the bridge and kicked his ass out. Did
not do what I wanted, but have a nice death. Is just a
fine game. It's a fine game. Uh would play game like Hemingway would
say, like, just it's fine, it's it's got some good acts to
it. Um. Like Tyrannill, I really enjoyed the beginning of it.
I loved the concept of So it's what would you call it? It's just
like so many of these other games. You are going until you die,
and then you just start over again. You're killing the same monsters in the
same environments again and again and again. Um. But because it's so similar
to a Dead Cells, it asks the question would you rather play Dead Cells?
And that's one of the problems like that. Yeah, and Dead Cells
just had Castlevania deal with van fires. Yeah, why didn't you bring that
up? Cellsylvania? You just could catal ejects you off the Manhattan Bridge.
Oh my god. Uh yeah, I think I think it has good moments
to it. Again, love the visual style. The boss fights are fun.
It's really fun. So at the end of each area you have a
boss fight and then you take the elevator to a new area. Um,
the combat just gets a little repetitive. But at least there's different types of
weapons. There's the scythe. There's a double scythe um that's like a little
faster. There's a scythe on chains, very scythe focused. But um,
all these different things have different mechanics, so it gives it a bit of
a variance, but it's not as varied as dead sels. Have you ever
thought? Okay, so did we did you talk about dredge on this show
already? Do you know what dredges? It? Dredge? Yeah, for
people who are listening. For everyone else, explained it in detail. Yeah,
don't like losers, um uh, dredges a fishing game where you like,
you just upgrade your fishing boat, right except twist Cthulhu. You are
in a Lovecraftian Eastern American town harbor, I guess, and like ship's getting
weird? Word? Where am I playing it? Yeah? Is this on
Steam? Is? It's on Steam deck and I it might be on Switch
now I know it's getting a physical release on Switch bount If it's on Switch
yet, it is, it's great. I only mention it because I think
there's I love when somebody sees a mechanic and they're like, hey, where
what else does this fit that you wouldn't expect? And fishing and lovecraft and
like lovecrafting and horror cosmic horror a perfect fit because the idea of lovecrafting horror
is there is an entire world beyond ours that we can't see, Like,
we can't comprehend it. It is even if we tried. It's like kind
of invisible to us, and it's so much bigger than us. And that's
just the ocean. Like that's just the very idea of the ocean, that
it is so big that it is inherently unknowable, and it's so deep that
we get so dark that we can't see it. So saying like, oh,
fishing plus the ocean would be a good lovecraft thing, and scythe plus
farming and death, where the entire point of farming is to like grow crops.
It's life. Shit, why don't we doing it? Why Valley?
But you're death? Oh my got Stardy Valley. But all you do is
one game, an attack into other people. Stardy Valley saves and kill every
kill them. Oh my god, you are a monster. I was gonna
say, you know, Stardu Valley ends because you're like Grandpappy died and left
you this farm. But it's like, twist, I killed him because I'm
death. How how wild would that be? If like, what not board
Ape? Who is the person who made Stardy Valley? Yeah, it's a
concerned not board Ape yacht Club. Yeah, I think it's an Yeah what
if like that would mean such a Cogima move if whoever made Stardy Valley was
like, oh, it turns out there's a twist. I do get to
come and reap the souls of any save I want. I built, gonna
exploit, and you don't know when I'm gonna come for you. So that
was it. Didn't Cogima at one point want or try to make a game
or try to pitch a game to Konami. That was it would when you
die, it deleted. You couldn't use that copy of the disc anymore.
Well, I didn't know that. I've heard. Oh no, you know
what it was in the creative gene he mentioned, which I have right alongside
my poly and Kale collection. Yeah, sure, sure they're identical. Yeah,
I think he wanted to. Yeah, I'm PlayStation. He imagine what
she would have thought of Death Stranding. I think she would have liked it,
honestly. Um, yeah, he wanted a game that was basically Perma
Death, but like actual Perma Death. You buy the physical copy at Toys
r Us whatever, bring it home, and you die in the game,
and the disc is no longer usable in your PlayStation, so you have to
go. Imagine I'm leaving a toys rs. I didn't want to use my
local game store name at the clothes now, so I was like, okay,
micro game, then you bring your disc back. I just love imagining
you leave a Toys r Us with your precious disk. But like the concept
of that paper bag, like nothing's going to be going on here, you
sicko, sicko in my little pony bag. I'm not pulling from a specific
memory there, no, no, of course, not of course now it's
not repressed. The last thing I'll mention, I'm playing Advance. How to
fuck do I say this name? Advanced Wars one plus two reboot Camp.
Okay, I ever played them on game Boy Advance like turn based tactics games
a lot, so I was excited for this and I can I guess talk
about the first few chapters, but I'll just say that it's actually pretty refreshing
to go back to such a simplified turn based tactics game. X Com Too
is one of my favorite games of all time, if not by like it's
one of my top five, and that game gets pretty complex at certain points.
But Advanced Wars so far is very like cute in its presentation, and
when you kill guys, they don't die, they just like shoot off the
screen like Smash Bros. Style. Is it weird it got delayed because of
an actual war. I can see why the question would have been raised in
a few meetings. The premise, the premise of the first game is that
two too neighboring countries, one of which has wanted peace for a long time
but had land taken from it by the Bully Country, is finally getting like
the big invasion from the Bully Country. That's the premises. Wow. Okay,
okay, okay, So like I see, And apparently they reworked one
character quite a bit named olaf Um, who I think I don't know if
he's if he again, I didn't play the original game, but I think
he was a bit too close for comfort for them. I don't know that
they've confirmed these things. I think they've said a little bit, but um,
yeah, I don't know. I'm enjoying these games. It's like so
cutesye and like cartoony and adorable looking, and then idea that it's like so
close to the actual war that's happening in real time is very jarring and it's
just like, yeah, you know, Max, like watch you out.
It's just like seems like off that it's that close to reality. It's it
is very surreal. Um. Those games are also like pretty hardcore in terms
of difficulty for a Nintendo game, Right, yeah you can. I'm playing.
There's two, there's Casual and Classic. And I was like, all
right, I'll play on Classic because I get I don't want to get bored.
I'd rather it'd be tough. Yeah you're a gamer. I get it.
I'm a gamer. I'm a tactics gamer. You know. Oh man,
live fast, fun, hard baby. So there it is. He
came out. So I was like, I ask kind of a time stamp
this so I know where I'm enjoying them. There again, it is kind
of refreshing, Like I think a lot of even like indie turn based tactics
games. Um, the one I played last year. I'll get back to
the name rather than dwelling on it, but it was a good game that
went to early access last year. When you're hiring mercenaries, et cetera,
I think a lot of them big in with the assumption that you have played
a shit ton of these kind of games. It's nice to despite the fact
that this is a remaster remake, it's still you're going back to a time
when this game was on Game Boy Advance, and I think they felt like,
probably correctly, they were starting from scratch with a lot of these players
with this kind of game. So it's kind of a cool little flash in
the pan moment for when, oh, this worked really well on this specific
handheld which had a very good library, and I'm seeing that kind of play
on real time on Switch and it's it's fun. It's not getting super complicated,
but it is very much a Nintendo game in that it is each mission
they're introducing one thing at a time methodically, to the point where I'm getting
a bit exhausted. In exhausted is a strong word, I'm getting I'm starting
to get a bit tired of Oh, they're introducing this one mechanic at the
beginning of the battle. That's what I'm going to use the rest of it.
And I can already see how this will play on future battles. I
just want them to get there. But they're are a lot of missions.
Uh, they're at least at least like twenty in the first game, which
doesn't sound like much, but then you're playing through them, and a lot
of them the first five at least or tutorials. Um, I'm gonna keep
playing them see if they ever get to I feel like people I know Jake
It talks about has told me that he thinks I'd like these games before I
think Pete Brown told me I would like these games. If memory serves.
I feel like they're talked about with a certain reverence, and I wonder how
much of it was a time and place thing. Yeah, this handheld that
people had that it felt like these were kind of and I can sucked yea
to live with it. Oh, you have his Minish Captain Advanced Wars.
Yeah that's sound true. Still good. Yeah, games don't so many games
don't. Shit. I talk more about Advance Wars at some point. Um,
I'm playing anything. I mean, yeah, video games. I've been
playing Octopath, I've been playing Dredge, I've been playing Oh wait, yeah,
we would never no offense. We would probably not talk about Paranormal Site
and fire Escape unless I played it and then try to convince them to play
it. So everybody should play Paranormal Site. That way we can talk about
it at the end of the year on like every game of the year thing.
Wow, it's gonna be the sleeper hit game of the year game that
like that pops up on like every like indie game blog and it will like
get like game of the year on like pace, you know. And I'm
not saying that as a disc like that's how you know it's actually good.
Yeah, yeah, it's good. It's it is a it's a reedy game.
Oh yeah, I guess this is a good time to talk about it.
So I don't like me, I can't play that his Ears. Yeah.
Um. It is a horror kind of like visual novel um slash detective
game. And you can play on practically everything, like it's on console,
it's on PC, but where I recommend playing it is on your iOS device
if you have an iPad mini that is the dream place for this. I
have tried it on so many different dumb consoles because I was trying to find
my perfect spot, and I've had many. Is great because the art doesn't
really look as good on a really large screen, but you still like having
an iPad and letting it feel more like a book works really well. Also,
the way that the actual gameplay it works is you're in a like three
sixty degree environment and you look around by using your like fingers swipes to like
roll around, and you know, the very first time that the game tells
you this, you're talking to like this young woman in a park like at
like two in the morning, and it's like very like spooky, and they're
like, oh, you should look around. You're like, I know that
when I look around, there's gonna be something. It's gonna happened to me.
Something bad's going to happen. And it does it right away. It's
like, yes, you're right, we were going to do that to you.
You're you are right, don't trust us, and then it like it
doesn't really do a whole lot more scary than that. It's more like upsetting
mix of like modern folklore and very very very classical Japanese folklore that is hyper
local, like it is about a neighborhood in Tokyo, And that is what
I think is so awesome about it is I love I love any game of
this like really really really digs in and it almost has like the pleasure of
you know, reading a horror movie Wikipedia, or reading like a franchise,
the entire franchise of like Friday thirteenth, Like, Wow, this is wild.
I'm learning so much about this movie. But also, um, it's
like not too scary, and I can kind of go on all these other
tangents about what inspired it in Yeah, there's something about it that I don't
know. It really in blurs the line of video game and Wikipedia book better
than a lot of visual novels that I love, even games I love like
Thirteen Sentinels, which is one of my favorite games the last ten years,
is very like here's the story, and then there's also an actual Wikipedia of
like diary or dictionary intries or Encyclopedia intries on my god, and then there's
like a RTS game. And this I think is much more clever about kind
of getting it all together and surprising you of like oh am I in the
game right now, and then I in the reading area. Am I like
kind of doing research to understand the story. You always feel like you're a
little bit off your balance. What was the name of it again, Para
Norma site, para Norma site. Yes, and I don't want amazing guy
who's like I liked it before it was cool, But this is a game
where I think Mahardy actually has the email that I sent on like a Saturday
morning where we got offered code and I have no idea why, but I
saw in the email to our reviews list like paranorma site square Enix, and
I was like, oh, I know, I'm gonna love this. It's
a name I've never heard of, something paranormal and it's one of these like
new things that Screenix does where they put a whole bunch of money behind something
they probably shouldn't have. This is like, man, its fastball down the
center. But I know no shit I was. I think I was like
on the couch watching TV after having gotten out of bed and had coffee,
and I was on the couch with Amanda and I for better or worse,
I check my work email like twice every Saturday once in the morning one and
I just to make sure I didn't miss any big like code come through something.
Sure, pretty sure, I said to Amanda Jesus Christ. Plant respond
to that email super quickly. It was like, hey, we have codes
for this paranorma site from Square Ennix. And then Plants like, yeah,
sure, we're interested. It was like four minutes later, what is the
game? Yeah? It really? It made it seemed like I was like,
oh, man, Plant must have been really waiting for this one,
not at all directly here I see a POLYGONI respond in four minutes, I
hope this game is good. He didn't read the description. There's a lot
of typos. No, it wasn't. Here's my home address so that you
can send it right away. Yeah. I was like, you live near
by a lock over? Where are you right now? Send me a pin?
Where are you? I'm a Terminal four at JFK. Where what country
do you live in? I've been playing Dracula. How do you feel when
people are mean to you and give you sure leaves? What does that make
you want to do? Put yogurt up? I told you, well,
that's all my games. Did you guys want to do? Emails? Sure,
sure, all right? As always, you can write in emails or
questions, comments, concerns, corrections. I never read those. I put
them in the trash. But you can write in questions for firescape cast at
firescape cast at gmail dot com. We will maybe read them if they're good.
If they're bad, don't waste my time. But firescape cast at gmail
dot com. As always, Mary, do you want to read this?
First one from Arthur? Sure Hi, fire Escape Crew And the last episode
you answered a question about integrating gaming into your day to day life. Your
answers tended towards shorter sessions on a consistent basis, such as Mike saying he
plays in the morning before work. I have also found this to be successful,
but I feel that it selects the types of games that I can play
to shorter or condensed experiences, which means I can't play long games anymore.
My question is, can you think of any long, narrative oriented games that
can be broken out into shorter sessions? Love the show. It's the only
gaming podcast that I listened to. You hear that plant only one Arthur from
Stanford. I believe we met Arthur at the meet up, unless there we
have more than one listener in the TriStar and named Nope, there's only one
Arthur. I know a long form narrative game that you could play in short
sessions. It's called Oxopaths Traveler too. Oh my god, yeah that's true.
I try to play last night because I was like, oh, I
should get like I should get another character and so I could really be cool
and talk about this game. And I like started a story for I don't
thrown a or whatever. Went into a town. The first person I met
was like, hey, how are you doing? Like you seem really nice.
I'm looking for my kid, as everyone apparently is, and I was
like, yeah, yeah, that's interesting. Um hey, let's see what
this person has on their person. If I mug them, it's like a
really cool sword. And I was like, bye, it's like this person
has a photo of their missing child. Snatch it, baby. It's like
every child has candy. And I'm like, yeah, I don't need it
and it's not worth much, but I have one hundred percent chance of stealing
it without getting caught, so you know I'm gonna take it. Statistics are
on my side, kids. Well sorry, I had a fifty percent chance
to steal a loaf of bread from a guy who was complaining about severe hunger,
and I got it? Was it Philip Glass? No, that's a
that's a joke for one person. There's gonna be one person. Hey,
if you if you enjoy a good Philip Glass has a love for bread joke.
It hit us up at fire Escape cast at gmail dot com and say
more of that, more of that, please, more of that guy?
We want him back. Fuck is this guy? Where do we find?
Oh? Geez no, I mean thirteen sentinels, right, that's the obvious
answer. Thirteen sentinels, their thirteen character. You can play their character,
each character in chapters as you want, and it's on switch so you can
just like put it in sleep mode if you need to. I wrote about
this recently in regards to Octopath, but also like Live Alive kind of time
splitters too. I want more short story collection video games. Yeah, it's
a good format because you can play something that's kind of woven together across a
bunch of different characters that you can play in shorter sessions. Because short stories
are the only good stories. Don't adapt novels, you know, like name
good movies that are based off novels name good movies are based off short stories.
Yeah, now you're on the right page. Now you're doing it.
How many good rookie Murakami novels turn into good movies? Good luck? How
many short stories turned into great movies? Boom, drive my car burning Boom.
You're just you're blasting them out now, Norwegian wood No, thank you,
sorry, waiting to go off right? In fire Escape casts, if
you want more hot content just like and if you never want to see him
again again, you can go to the best season email them there about see
what share our email address? Um, married, you have a game recommendation?
I mean I would say games that are that can be good narratively but
are broken up into chapters. That come to mind are the Until Dawn series,
which is broken up into very specific chapters, so if you can make
time for a chapter, you'll be good. Also, the saves and that
are very kind, And if you quit or you die, you can leave
the game and come back and it'll start you at the last place before you
died. It won't make you restart the chapter, so it's not grueling or
pressing. The game knows you will die. I also find that for whatever
reason. The game is written in a way that kind of narratively is like
Becky, but isn't your boyfriend going to kind of like the way that they
write characters in TV shows in case you've forgot, and so they'll kind of
remind you at the beginning of a chapter what happened last chapter. It actually
even does recaps every chapter, so you know why you can forget. Yes,
I love that concepts just like as a nice easy to deliver for you
so that you don't feel guilty that you had something else to do and you
didn't come back to it, or maybe even that you took long breaks,
which I do all the time, where I'm like, I have time to
play this game for three weeks, and now I forget. I don't remember
the character's names or even what I was up to. So those recaps are
really important. The Corey fucking ruled by the way last year. The other
one I would say is a lot of Telltale games do really good recaps and
have chapter breakouts, so a Walking Dead obviously, I'm sorry to think the
Wolf among us those types of games. It will remind you, it will
be kind to you. You can do it in sections, but you can
also just not Sorry, let's take all our boy over here. I don't
know. I opened up the fire escape inbox, and I thought Plant had
just emailed us while you were talking monster, That's why you were talking.
I did it while he was talking. Oh, while I was talking,
I had an important question. You did it. There's no body text of
the email, it's just subject line my question, Colan who farted from Chris
Plant? Anyway? Sorry? I was like this thought it was. I
thought it was going to be a glass thing. It was gonna be like
more glass and you're gonna like another Philip Glass joke. Yeah, just but
then look that guy who said all the Philip Glass jokes. Bring him on
again. But it's like before we aired the show, the Philip who's this
guy? Are you for real? Yeah, maharny, you are really not
living up here your reputation. You're not talking about the journalist. She's a
big idiot. For anyone else who's dumb and doesn't know who Philip Glass is,
explain from the beginning. Yeah, yeah, I mean Mary, Mary,
and I know that Philip Glass is arguably the most important and recognizable American
composer of like the last forty years incredible. Oh that sounds familiar. Why
would what do you mean? My I don't know shit about like music?
Really? Wait? Have you ever seen that movie? Uh? Koianna Sakatzi,
Yes, Koyana Scotzi, the Yes, the Crop Fields and then The
City Scots. He did the music or he directed it. I mean the
whole point in that movie is his music. No, it's not. Are
you I'm joking, I'm gonna you're killing me, killing me? I have
seen Koyana Scotzi and I enjoyed it in the art class. I watched it
in my freshman year at college. But he did he did? Um the
Truman Show? Is that? It? Is that good enough for you?
Oh? Now I'm interested? Okay? Wait is this right? Philip Class
did the music from the original Candy Man? Oh shit, weird wild?
What can you do? It? Very very range and he passes the test
of time. I'm gonna bring up Glassa, my favorite wine bar, this
weekend and be like you guys don't know who Philip Glasses. Get out of
here, give me your Chardonnay's before you leave. Every person there is going
to note because the wine bar that you're going to he lives like four blocks
from Really, not that I'm gonna docks Philip Glass on this podcast, but
yes, he lives literally like four blocks from your favorite wine bar. I
might, or at least did when I lived in that neighborhood. My favorite
wine bar changed. I'm a man of I'm nimble. Yeah, oh wow,
you kid, I have the same favorite now. Of course I know
where it is. You're so predictable. Thank you Arthur for writing in appreciate
it. And he said, ps, Mike should bring back the voices.
I don't do voices anymore, man, I love your South Park voices.
Yeah, all right, dear Landscapers. Do you guys have any devices or
equipment that has technically been made obsolete that you still use regularly? I still
use MP three players, for example, even having bought a new one fairly
recently, which yes, means I download your podcast directly from the website,
plug my player into my computer, and move everything over manually. Mary,
stop highlighting random sentences while I reading. Can't help it. The fire escape
thing pops up to tell me fire Escape is editing, and I can't read,
and it's infuriating me, and you need stock everything over manually I just
prefer having a separate device from my pods and music, especially since I can
use it without having to look at it. How about you all? That
was from Darien from Toronto. I love that. Um. I have a
lot of respect for that because I was obsessed with my MP three player and
I held onto it for way longer than the average user. I had it
for years afterwards, just because it's really convenient. It's not distracting like a
phone, so I could have all my podcasts and my music and it wasn't
distracting. It was just for me. I don't like having everything on my
phone. The other thing that I'm really interested in is my radio next to
my bed that wakes me up in the morning. I do not use a
phone or anything connected to the internet to wake me up in the morning.
I have it's called the dream Machine, which is hilarious because there's a video
game called the dream Machine, which I love. And it is brown and
it looks like it's from nineteen seventy and I grew up with it and I
love my dream Machine. And it's got a sleeper bar, it's got like
three buttons. It only does what is like what God intended it to do.
It tells me the time, and it wakes my ass up at eight
in the morning. That's it. I have a clock radio next to my
bed that I want to get back to using. I get the appeal of
wanting to like compartmentalize what I use certain things for, rather than all being
centralized on my phone. I kind of like the idea of busting out my
old iPod touch because I do like having the clock radio be a separate thing
that I use. I don't have to pick up my phone right away,
I don't have to touch it. I'm pretty good at not looking at my
phone first thing in the morning, but like just not having to touch it
would be nice. I'd appreciate it. Yeah, um, I mean,
I guess people are always surprised when they learn I don't have a vinyl record
player. I don't, I do, I do you, uncultured swine?
I know I love my record player as well. I do have when when
it serves me. I think it's really fun to listen to game soundtrack or
any soundtrack on a record. I think it has a really nice feel to
it. It takes more effort for me to like hook it all up,
but I love it. Yeah, we use it for dinner. We have
it like in our like little kitchen area, and it's like, oh,
this is great because like it's about the time that you're going to be in
that room. You sit right next to the record player. You can flip
it easy, and you'd like choose. It makes me like, yeah,
you have to say like okay, tonight while we eat we're having this on.
It's more intentional. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean for us,
we when we lived in New York, there was no room for it.
And then once we moved to Austin, it was like, oh there's
space and everyone in Austin has a record player, like every person we knew.
And yeah, I dug out this collection that I had worked at a
good will when I was in high school and just collected tons of records because
they cost like fifty cents or whatever as an employee, and I saw I
got first DIBs. So I just had like a ton of old, weird
stuff that some of it is like garbage that I don't know why I think
I've got. Then, because I was like, yeah, I've heard of
sticks they roll someone, It's like pretty good, this answer is going to
sound weird, but books. I really like physical books, and I like
the way they feel, and I like the way they smell, and I
like the way I can put it next to my bed at night. And
so even though an I Pad or whatever is more common and it's easier and
you can download them and you know, it saves trees and stuff, I
like going to a bookstore and I like picking out a book from the shelf
and I like taking it home with me and reading it. And I like
dog eared books where I like fold it so that I remember where it is.
And am I'm being nostalgic, I'm not sure, but I prefer reading
a physical book. Yeah, same here we have. That's one of the
few things I like. Collect i'd say, but we I don't know.
I know, like e readers and if you're reading something digitally, you know
what page number round on the total. But I still love the feeling of
having like that thin cluster of pages left. You can kind of like physically
feel the book reaching its climax or coming down. Yeah, I like I
like feeling the heft in my left hand. Not because I'm like reading books
just to finish it, but when a book is like really good. I'm
like or like knowing how many pages I have till the end, and you
can kind of feel the emotion building with the pages you're turning. I enjoy
that a lot. Yeah. I don't know if this counts, but I
my favorite movie theater is like an art house that is in like so Cow
and very very old and it's just two screens and it's the old school seating,
like it's not stadium seating, and like it's a nonprofit so you know,
if you want like a bag of chips, it's like a buck fifty.
Everything just costs like nothing. You know, they have coffee, but
it's just whatever they can make with your little um coffee pod machine. And
like being like I just saw that. I love going to a place that
it feels way more like a place that belongs to the community than like a
place that belongs to a company, and everything they show like reflects that and
everything around it. It's um kind of wedge between like some local restaurants and
like am what is it called that swap meat? Like one of those like
large stores where you have like twelve boosts, but they're all like local people
who are like, oh, I sell my jewelry here. Oh my gosh,
I wish I could remember the name of this type of store. But
it's a way it could be any vendor. So it's essentially like a market.
Yes, yeah, like um, like it's so it's like you go
inside and they're like people have their booths. Oh my gosh, I'm sure
I'm driving somebody crazy right now. Um and yeah they have like you have
your boosts. And there's only like one person actually working there, so not
everybody has to work at the same time. And it's like, oh,
I want to buy the same from the shirt from this booth, and like
a record from this booth and you pay for it. Oh my gosh,
why am I sounds like we're discussing a market. It sounds like a flea
market, but you're saying it's does this Oh yeah I think oh yeah,
I think I think flea market. Yeah yeah, yeah, Um gotta be
anyway, nice community anyway. Um, hey, guess what. My laptop
battery is about to die, so I think it might be the end of
the show. Okay, how close are you. Let's let's live as dangerously
as you want. Last thing I'll say, I hope stop making sense the
Angelica Theater on Houston. I love going to That's like an old school kind
of run down kind of. Yeah. You can hear the subway. You
can feel the subway would be next to it, I guess kind of when
you're here in the Yeah, I love it. It's like a shotgun theater.
It's like it's like it's six rows wide, but like deep yep.
Um but yeah anyway, Chris Plant, that was Darien from Toronto who wrote
it, And thank you Darian first Plan, thank you, thank you for
joining. Where can people see your other work? For those who don't know,
I work, Canna play a place called polygon dot com and um it
sucks us is so bad? Um and um yeah, I have a podcast
called The Besties, which is we know what I would describe it as compared
to this show shorter. Yeah, that's that's about its description. Yeah.
No, I love the length of this show. Um I it is a
show for increasingly, it feels like, um, people who don't play a
lot of video games but are curious about them. Um, or people who
are over the age of like thirty thirty five and are like, hey,
I is this worth my time? I have limited time it's it's we've been
doing the show for like eleven years now. It's wild. You've had a
long run. Yeah, truly bonkers and and uh in like so many different
forms. We had a version of it like one episode a year. We've
had versions that we're one episode a month. Now we're weekly, um,
which is how we started. And uh, yeah, I think it's good.
I think it's pretty chill. I like it. It's so funny.
It's like one of the best shows to recommend. And um, when you
do the besties Game of the Year discussions and you put them in brackets and
make people decide between like Zelda and like another really good game and everyone loses
their fucking minds because nobody can possibly pick one. It's really vile. It's
a very fun time. So yeah, it's a it's a great show.
Thanks for being our guesties. Yeah, thank yous for me. Mary and
I are good. I figured that happened all the time to you. People
say that all the time. No, I've never heard, guest I've never
heard it. But it's so good. Wait wait wait wait where can where
can I watch? Can you watch? Is actually on the fire Escape YouTube
channel. It's for free. You don't have to be a patriot anything.
But it's on our YouTube channel, So if you want to keep up,
go over there, um where our second episode might be up by the time
this episode of fire Escape publishes. Might Yeah, I'll put it up unless
we think we're gonna skip. I'll try. I'll probably try and do an
episode a week so long as we can record them. Cool. Yeah.
Um. Outside of that, go get some Jedi Padawan author bio mousepads at
fireskate merch dot com to pon uh go to our Patreon you can. You
can get an ad free version of the episodes. You can get the video
versions. Go check those out. We play is gonna get in the way
of the guana with the daggers? That says, what's the bottle? No,
we'll look into that. We'll talk to fourth Wall. Okay, they
know, yeah, they know our priorities. Yeah, but what this guy?
What is on the back of the shirt? By the way? Have
you are? You still figuring it out? But there's like a little tub
of yogurt on the side, and then it's kind of like a you know,
but we're not gonna explain it. Yeah, dorky Christmas yogurt. But
on the other side, Um, Chris, thank you for joining us.
We appreciate it. Thank you for having me. I'll see you all later.
Go listen to the best teams. We'll see you next week, not
really two weeks from now, but next episode. Bye bye,