Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis, your host,
and we've got a great one for you this evening. I was at the
move On Symposium in Cincinnati and sat down and talked with Thiago Tecchi of Brazil
and Mike Masters. So it's a two part prerecorded coming up. I'll be
here in the chat room during during the show, I just wanted to let
everyone know that my good friend Lie Spiegel, this is just an update of
what happened recently. Is uh. He passed away, of course, and
I've mentioned this last week. For those of you that did not hear that
this, I apologize. He did pass away on the fifteenth of August and
the people at the Huffington Post, where he worked for many years, went
out to have drinks in his honor, and they came up with this wonderful
idea of sending Lee's ashes into space. So and I thought it was so
fitting. So In and We're going to be running a tribute to him on
the twenty first and of September, and I'll be posting that, of course
on this show and talking about that. A whole bunch of us are getting
together for that. So the go fund me text is in the show notes
in the YouTube text on this, so check that out and donate if you
feel up to it. So I would first of all, I would like
to say that Charles Lear's blog is part two of last week's a nineteen seventy
six British UFO and humanoid encounter with paranormal overtones. So I'd like to talk
to you a little bit about next week's guests because I think it's very important.
I'm really looking forward to it. Now. This is Jonathan Wigan.
This is the second time he'll ever be talking about it, and I don't
think you'll ever hear him talk about this again. And so Jonathan was a
former Marine Lance corporal. He was involved in Project Laser Strike in Peru in
the nineteen nineties late nineties. Back in nineteen ninety seven, he was called
out to a crash. They went out for about three hours in a Humby
along with I think four other humps and they get to this crash site and
there's something different about it right away. It's an incredible incident with a tear
drop shaped craft and it's wedged in the side of the rocks like a ledge.
But he can actually get there without repelling or anything, and it looks
like it was damaged, possibly by He's his opinion was that it looks like
it might have been hit by a Hawk missile which they used with the Project
Laser Strike. This had to do with drug running and things like that,
and you know, he went up to the craft. It was changing colors,
sort of like an pearl opalescence, but changing colors, and so is
a fluid the running out of it. It's just an incredible story, and
he is going to be talking about that. Oh yes, and armed men
in black camel with no insignia showed up and aggressively they took over the scene.
Just the rest of the story. He was basically shackled and taken away
and told not to speak about it. He persisted in talking about the fellow
servicemen and they up. He ended up paying the consequences for that. After
its discharge in two thousand and one, he felt like he wanted to talk
about no I'm sorry after his discharge and in around two thousand and one.
He was not discharged in two thousand and one, but around two thousand and
one he felt like he had to talk about it in a public venue.
And he heard about Coast to Coast and the topics they discussed there. So
he contacted Coast to Coast and he asked for someone to help him. They
put him in touch with doctor Stephen Greer, who at that time was doing
pretty good work. And so back in two thousand and two, Leslie Kane
and Bud Hopkins both were involved in flying Jonathan to New York City where he
met with him and he was interviewed at that time by doctor Stephen Greer.
It's a very well known interview. It's up. I can post a link
to it in the show notes. But he has absolutely no interest in being
part of the UFO community in any type of way or speaking about this again.
And when I talked to him last night, he said they spends most
of the time trying to forget about the whole thing. He really suffered PTSD
from this situation. You'll know why once you hear a story. So,
for the last three years, a wonderful listener to this show who really likes
the way I conduct the interviews. He's reached out to me and both Jonathan
knows him and has been suggesting that Jonathan speak on my show for the last
three years, and Jonathan has kept turning it down, said he really has
no interest in talking about it. Then in June, David Grush comes out
talks about his whole situation, and then Jonathan says that he feels it's time
to talk about it one more time. So that's coming up next week's September.
I feel I wouldn't have him on my show and do everything I am
doing if I did not think he was credible. I've asked two former FBI
trained people and also a detective to watch his interview, and they've come back
to me and say they've seen no signs of deceit. He goes into great
detail and they feel like it's a true story. And I'm not saying I
don't have proof that it's a true story, unfortunately, but it is a
very credible story. And so he is going to speak one more time,
and he is using his real name, Jonathan Wagen, and all of that.
I ask of you out there is you please do not try to contact
him. He's really not interested in talking to the media or anyone else.
So stay tuned for that on next week a week from today's September five,
and that will I think it's going to be probably the most important show that
I have ever done, for sure. So anyway, thank you for listening
to all that, and I am going to get on with the interviews today.
I think you'll find them enjoyable. I'm with Chicago Chiquechi. Welcome to
the show. Thank you very much. Good to have you. You were
on quite a while ago. I can't even remember when it was. It
was four or five years ago. Yeah, I think it's in stuff in
seventeen eighteen nineteen and I don't know, it's something like that. Yeah,
yeah, but I appreciate it. Was nice to see you here and finally
meet you and here you are up from Brazil. So and we talked a
little bit in line. I asked you if you were if James Fox was
in touch with you. Yeah, he did. He did at the beginning
of his documentary Terry, and I was very very good to see he did.
At God, it took several years to finish it, that's right.
Yeah, So in the in my opinion, was a great it's a great
film. Yeah. And what do you think about Well, first of all,
we're going to get into that a little bit. But there's a lot
of people that are new to the UFO world constantly here from new people that
are just just found my channel. And so I guess I'm going to ask
you what you know basically, what got you interested in this topic? And
you know what started you on this research level? Well, I always said
it was born with new following my blood. There's no way to explain because
things I remember. I love it to read comic books like Spider Man Captain
America in Brazil and the Beadle that recruits did corp magazine from night ed Marton,
Ed Barton if it was a recruit from the army, I think beetle
in English? Yeah, I know, I know what you're talking about,
Uh, Peter Bailey. Yes. In Portuguese is we call like zero corp
So and the UFO magazines. See the one was a kid I start to
read. I read that and my father liked the subject. And my father
had a book called Chairs of the Gods. Oh yes, yeah, and
what came out. He didn't let me to touch it. It's his book.
And when he getting the things from his closeting the book and in a
bed and it started to read it and see the some pages and then he
gave to me and uh needy two. I saw usos h very very normal
normal. It's a close encounter of s your own kind. I just saw
a light that came from the sky and the disappear in a mountain and then
wake up, appear again, make a movement, got brighter, reddish and
disappear. How old did you say you are? Eighty two? I was
eighty years old, and I remember it cleary clearly in my mind. And
since then I got more interested in the UFLO subject. And then I when
I moved from Rio to Brazilia, where I live now, I joined a
group EBA t is a Edit to research the ex aggressional phenomena and I start
to research. I never stopped. It's almost thirty years on it. Wow
about that? So, and what are some of the cases that you've besides
the one and Vargina. What are some of the cases that you find really
compelled? And Brazil Virginia is the top twelve, top three, let's say
top three, because they have also in Brazil the Plate operation, the pop
Pride investigated, and we have the Night of the UFOs in Brazil. It
was in ninety eighty six when twenty twenty one UFOs were chased in pursuit by
five version or five jet fighters and it took six hours during the night until
the door and they're trying to get this under five hundred five and trying to
pursue it and try to to get closer to the this UFO, but it
was impossible because when the jet get closer and they've just got match fifteen,
so it's impossible pursuit. And we had a plate operation that happened in eighty
seven seven where uthfuls were shooting light of beings of light and people and get
the iron from their blood. Why, I said, because everybody that got
hit by that light or whatever that yeah spot right stoody that We searched that
and they went to the hospital and they got an india and lack of iron
in the blood. So everyone and one person die, right officially one person.
Only person died. And the version of course Virginia happened in ninety ninety
six when a used for crashing in Virginia City is a city of a minage,
United State, and at least five to seven aliens or seen and we
got so far we know that at least two they were captured dead, one
was shot by military and died. Another one, why why would they shoot
him? I mean, you know, unarmed, I mean, don't naked
and afraid. We don't know. We don't know, we don't know,
we don't know. Another one was captured alive and the military suress died after
that because they touch it, yeah, touch it in the a and got
an affection a week later and died two weeks later. And he was a
young guy too, and young guy healthy. Yeah, so we don't know.
And now were we were pressing, pushing the army to disclosure the docments
we are using in Brazil all all like the Fried of Information Act, you
have a here in the United States. We have a similar law in Brazil
that we are asking for that he could have secrecy that at maximum Brazil should
be plenty five years. Just pass it so they they they must give the
documents to the public. And they trying, they are trying to close it
so well a lot of times you hear and here in the States were sometimes
documents end up being missing. They can't find them, you know what I
mean that you can expect that could possibly, yeah, because when we ask
he gave us documents with a black all black documents and there's we found in
some documents a number of protocol that we're not a blanket and we asked for
that protocol protcourse like a documentation, and they answer us, well, there's
no protocol like that. Wait a minute, you gave us a document blanket
or in black, but miss you'll you'll let you leave a protocol number any
burgh sail if you have. If you lose or destroy a document, you
have to create a protocol showing that to destroy it or you miss it,
you have to. You have to do it because if if you don't do
it, it's a crime. So they have to answer us about that.
Yeah, and we are pushing yeah, and what so you do like you
fill out the forms like we do here. Yes, you just have to
wait patiently to see what you get for a response. Yes they have.
They have fifteen days to response, but they can you know, uh,
take more fifteen days and take more fifty days. They can expand the limits
the deadline, but they have to answer it in one of our answers questions,
Uh, there's no way to to give more time for them. So
a federal Department of Brazil just asked to the army you have fifteen days to
give them the answer. Where are this document destroyed? If you destroyed the
name of protocol? If the missing the name the number of the protocol,
that they open an investigation to find out how that document missing. Wow,
so we are it'll be interesting, Yes, we are. We are pushing
it in. We'll try to get it. Yeah. Now do you believe
I've I've spoken many times to James Fox about this situation in particular, and
there were some things he told me that I can't He asked me not to
talk about, so I haven't been able to talk about them. But as
far as you know, do you think that there is video and photography of
the beings themselves? Yeah? And you think that it's out there? Yeah,
there is, because let's be be honest. If you say you all
UFO or an alien, won't you take a picture of course investigation or a
popsy? And I believe there's a photos and there's a film, but we
don't have ned of them. Now, what about not a lot was spoken
about the craft what supposedly may have crashed and is there a speculation about that.
I don't remember James getting really into that about how that was retrieved or
as anybody you know, I know there was also an American military presence,
which always seems to have. Yeah, in a in a in a film
of the James Fox film there's he got the he presence on on the on
the film the person whose who saw the aircraft crashing? Right, Yes,
he was. He was passing and a road and saw that something and then
he got there because he thought he was an airplane. The military. The
military who was there and pushed him away. Yeah. And the night before
a couple that will leave it near the Virginia they saw the UFL. It's
a slender UFL with a hole in the back and white smoke from the back.
But it was very slow. The UFO was very slow and lower and
get lower. But they never saw that thing crashing. But that witness saw
it. I just forgot his name, but he saw it. And in
the quetry by by James Fox, uh, they went to this that place,
and they've been such a cry because it's right. I remember, we
remember, we call him everything that happened to him, and he has no
reason to lie, right, no reason that that thing is those things that
can rule your ruin your life, yes, not get not expect to be
famous and the Hollywood actor. No, it's not that good. It's not
that good, I can tell you. Yeah, There's there's so many situations
that I've seen in looking into this topic where I think, why would this
person make this up? You know, I mean there's so many times where
there's just no benefit. No, no one's out, I mean, no
one goes into this. Maybe there's a very small fraction of people that think
they're going to make money out of it somehow. I remember I was calling
tacted by someone that said that he had a really great picture of the UFO,
but he wanted ten thousand dollars for it. This was someone you know,
that just was looking online. They saw my website and they thought,
oh, well, you know, you know, but it's so rare that
people associate money with us. Given an example of Chev's Walton is he rich?
No, No, travel is not rich. And he keeps telling what
he experienced it. Yeah, and he lost friends, he lost charts,
but he keep because well I spoke with with him a year ago, we
will we want to get in some power and he and we met from years
and uh, he still saying the same, the same same thing. Yes,
yeah, he ain't rich. Well, he told me that he you
know, he's retired, so he uses his pension a lot of times to
go to these conferences and you know, they'll they'll sometimes pay his way sometimes,
you know, pay for his hotel room. But he just does it
because he wants to get it out there about version. You know, we
have testimonies from military that participates from the cover up operation, but some are
still in the army. In some so the retired officers to militaries, but
they keep saying, we don't want to show our faces, right peause they
are in the army and in the other that are not because they're afraid to
get some trouble. M hmm, yeah, I mean I don't I don't
think that's unreasonable to feel that way. I mean, with all the ridicule
over the years and everything. You know. Of course, it's now,
you know, things have changed a lot seem to have in this country where
people accept a lot more. But it's going to take a while before a
lot of people will feel comfortable talking about it. I think, Yeah,
what's happening here in the United States. Uh, the people, the witness
that want to to talk now, they have, they have more security more
you know, they are not afraid to tell because now they have congressmen behind
them. Oh you can talk, you can talk. Nothing's gonna happen to
you. Yeah, well yes, except you know this. There's an example
though, with David Grush. You know, there's it seems like almost on
a daily basis, you can see that there's an article out. I think
that one just came out, and you know, people are welcome to their
opinion and stuff like that. But still there's they seem to be trying to
just credit in different ways. Is the is the the tactic they have because
they cannot in the past they just got just just besidence. Let that,
let it die, that this information die itself. Now on in Parliament,
in a in Senate, they have to talk, they have to answer,
and they now using our other tactics. One of them does give all all
uh no credit for David as they did to Bubblo's art m H. In
my opinion, my opinion, and I think this is the thing that they
do in the whole world, in Brazil as well. It's now it's changing
in Brazil. It's changing in Brazil. But when I was younger and I
said, oh no, I research you, ufl. That's an exist you
are, you are to have learning. You're crazy now that people come to
me. Oh, I saw something very nice. I know you. I
know your YouTube channel. I saw you in a history channel. I saw
you on TV. Yeah. Yeah, and it's changing, yes, changing,
that's right. Now. Have you ever worked with anyone in Chile?
Chili? Chili? Yes? How did you go? Queenz Alida? Okay,
I know jose Le Do you remember Jose I heard, yes, yeah,
I know, a real nice, real nice gentleman. It's nice that
they take UFO seriously. That's you know, through in the government there,
Chili, Uruguay, what else? I think, Peru and Ecuador. But
I know, I know that Chile and Uruguay had inside the government they had
a department of a group civil, civilian and military working together. In Uruguay
they had the military studying UFOs with help of ethologies. In Argentina as well,
they had it, and Chile they do. Brazil, we got closer,
very closer. In two thoy thirteen we got a meeting at the at
the Ministry of Defense in Brazil with the Army, Navy and air Force and
were we were arranging to create a group civilian and military to investigate, but
then we had we had the impeachment of the president. So oh yes,
we lost everything and then now we're trying to rebuild it. Yeah. Yeah,
Now where do you live geographically in the country, I mean in the
middle of Brazil in the middle of Brazil Brazilia. Yeah, Brazilia the capital
and there, sir uh. Is there like a reporting where people can report
at UFO signing in Brazilia? Yes? Yes, how does that work?
They got me by email Brazilia. Well, Brazila has two million people living
in Brazilia even and working in Brazilia. And the isn't small Brasils very small,
very small. Is that is a square, the df is square And
the people know me there because my parents in radios, in podcasts and chief
in Brazilian in Brazilia, and they got touch with me by email by WhatsApp.
I don't know how they got my WHATSOPP number, I don't know,
but it's very common. People got in touch with me on Facebook, so
they report to you, reproach to me. So there's no like service like
move On Reporting Center or anything. I always directed him to do it.
Through the CMS, move on. I see, yeah, but I don't
don't dismiss when they get to me. I just okay, let's do it.
But please started the cmespo the Great Problems. It's in English. Oh
yes, of course. Of course if you click on the right side of
my house, you can translate to Portuguese. But people don't understand too much
that so they get information, got information to me and to me and I
try to investigate. I see, so you actually help them report that way?
Yeah? And how would you say the activity is as first? Like
how many times do you get contacted, say on a monthly basis or something
like that, twice, three times a day a day, a day,
a day, a day a day by Instagram, Facebook, mester, what's
up? Mail? And people say I saw something or in a film or
a photo ninety five ninety six percent explainable. We can explain. Yeah,
no promo at all, And people get mad with me, Yeah, because
they wanted to be exceterracial U. Yeah, I should that happened too.
Yeah, you came to me. I'm telling you what I think it is,
yes, except to you to accept or not. Yeah, but and
that we have five four percent that cannot explain. Yeah, in that case,
we go deeper to try to to explain to the people, to the
person that's sent to us. Yeah, yea. And can you talk about
some of them that have been really compelling that people have reached out to you?
I mean, have there been some that are just really amazing? Well?
Uh, I was investigating a UFO casing. Gama is a city near
Brazilia. There's a UFO was seen in a for three days an adult.
It was happening two thousand and twenty two and near a prison female prison.
The UFO was over the prision and make several movements in the sky and had
no sound, and the witness recorded and sent for to a friend that knows
me, and I started to to to investigate the skate. I thought that
was a drone. He make it a drawing of that of a drone,
but that in that are is forbidding to have drowne because there's a prison there.
So I got in touch with the military police that control of the prison
and asked him, ask them and they said, no, there's no drawn
here. We're not using drone in this area is forbidden. We can see
if there's a drone we shut down the drone with their weapons, especially weapons,
and I start you looking for more witnesses in that area, and I
found it three more witnesses that the same day. There was three days,
but in some days they saw something and there was and it was a very
large square shape object, big like five or six meters. And one of
these witnesses said that that UFO or coupe something like that almost landed, but
when his dogs start to barking, the uth just flew away. For me
the first time that that happened, because normally when the UFO appears, the
animals got getting silence. Yeah, there's all types of reactions. When the
summerments doing a talk on that. She's been on the book. Oh,
yes, I read the book. It is really good book. Yes,
So I concluded. I concluded that it was a ufou. I cannot explain
it's not her daughter plane, was not a helicopter, was not a drone,
nothing like that. And I tried to find if in a in a
in the terrain has some burning grass, burning grass, but there's nothing because
you have never landed. And but there was three different, four different witnesses.
That makes the case more readable. Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah,
so it was very interesting. Well I close the case like UFO,
but who knows speaking of the word ufo, and I just started to say,
UAP, what do you call them in Brazil? Brazil was still calling
ufo. Yeah, because it's fine with me. We say we say Avenish
is Anish? Is ufo in Portuguese? The same thing just translated and the
UAP. I'm trying to put more up in my articles, in my in
my speech, in my programs, my videos, but people still ask me,
what's up is the UFO said the same thing the other day? Yeah,
that's right, that's right. And so do you have other people that
like help you out? I mean, if all these people are calling you,
I mean, is there any type of group you have there? Yeah?
I have the Brazilian Commission of Athologists, which I'm present, and they
help me. And then we have a person people in Brazil, have one
in Brazilia, three or four in San Paolo, whom one in he wouldn't
he wouldn't do state. And what happened in Brasilia I deal with, and
what happened in other stated I sent to them. But now I'm trying to
get more people involvid like move on Brasilve. Yeah, I have to have
more people associated to move on doing the field researchers at skate field field training.
And because there are many times I cannot investigate all the cases and I
needed help. Sure, and I will try to do that. I mean
a lot of these people that are volunteering have a real job, you know
I do. I have a real job. Yeah, have you so?
And and you spend all your time and your travel and that's all I mean.
If you didn't have a passion for it, you wouldn't be doing that,
right, it's a passion. It's a passion because I have to work,
and the first I have to work. Second, free time, when
I have free time with my family. Right, you have a family,
my family, a wife, a boy and a girl. Yeah, and
then I have time for me. Yes, that's apology, that's apology.
Watch soccer game, yeah for ninety minutes and then back to apology. But
I have all my attentions for my my my work of course most part of
my day, and my family. Sure yeah, and the fology comes in
third. Yeah, but I love it's a passion. Yeah, so I
started to balance at all. But I said, but I said my wife
when I get retired. Yeah, I spend most fifty percent of my time
with my family, the other fifty chasing aliens. Yeah. So I'm lucky
that I can do this type of thing like come out here myself and I
would call myself semi retired. So I'm putting a lot more effort and it's
a lot more fun. And I have a wonderful producer, Donna, and
and girlfriend, so that makes it really a lot of fun. We have
the same interests as very nice, my my my, My wife supports me
a lot. That's wonderful. But he did you like it? Not like
it? Yeah? No interest? Yes, yes, she love it when
I when I when I travel, and I do my my state, my
participation in Congress, supposing, but it's not their thing, every thing.
I totally get that. One last, one, last question. We're talking
about the Varsinia case, and do you believe that craft was recovered by the
your military your military and if so or do you have any thoughts. I
know it's speculation, but do you have any thoughts aware that debris or whatever
was left to whatever crashed would be Now, I think our military took the
material, the UFO and it means a gaze to the USA. I wondered
about that. Yeah, and I think I think James Fox sort of alludes
to that. We we have it's it's a speculation that we have strong evidences
that all the all the things, a version of the beings, the Exeter
rest roles and the shape was sent to USA. We have information confirmation that
the airplane arriving in Campeonish. There's no sign, there's no US, there's
no NASA, NASA wasn't wasn't compunished. It's a city of the University of
Campius where the aliens were brought m and that are playing uh arrived, the
engines start working, they put some boxes and then Floyd. Yeah, and
some time later we got as a present the first astronaut with an austronauts in
the space. M hmm. About that chicket we gave them. They gave
to the state something and they gave us a chicket to ride in the space.
That's very so. But the press was very able, very capable to
do that. But it was very close. So coincidence maybe, but you
know, we have that suspicious m m m. All right, well,
thank you so much. Up in a real pleasure and really great to meet
you in person. And where can someone find you? Can someone reach out
to you? And I know you're you're you're getting a lot of people reaching
out to you in Brazil itself. But if anyone has a quick question for
you or something like you can you can find me at my social media jints
you right down, Yeah, I'll have in the show notes yea. And
they can reach me by email, by Facebook, by Instagram, TikTok everything
I can read me excellent, Thank you so much, Thank you very much.
All right, all right, back again with the one and only Mike
Masters. How you doing great, Martin, It's always great. I don't
know if we've ever done this together in person. Fantastic. No, No,
we met a couple of times. Yeah, and yeah, that was
I'm trying to remember. I think it was Phoenix, right, it was
International UFO Congress twenteen nineteen. Was it then right before everything happened? It
was is one of the last things before everything happened. Yeah, and then
everything didn't happen, because that's right for a while. Yeah. Yeah,
So anyway, this event was you had a big audience today. I don't
know relative numbers, it was several hundred. I don't know. I mean
the room was full, so it looked like it from the stage. People
really interacted and yeah, seemingly engaged. I only saw one person sleeping,
so it's always a good sign. So I'd like to first reintroduce you.
I know you've been on the show. I don't know three or four times,
but there's a lot of new listeners that I always have to keep that
in mind. So who is Michael Masters? He is an embodied form of
the unmanifested realm who's manifested, I guess by default at that point, no
egos, Mike Masters. He's professor at Montana Tech. It's a science and
engineering university in Butte, Montana. I'm a biological anthropologist to do research and
a lot of different areas, mostly biomedical research looking at eyes, vision,
things like that. And then yeah, I wrote some books about the UFO
phenomenon, mostly from the standpoint of whether they could be our future human descendants
coming back to study their own past. And yeah, sort of been an
advocate for that model, obviously still embracing other models and recognizing that that can't
explain everything, but I do think it helps account for a lot of the
weird and even very conventional aspects of the UFO phenomenon. I don't know if
I've ever asked you this, but when was the very first time you ever
thought of just popping your head one day or it did? Yeah, I
was eight years old, actually eight years old. Yeah, I talked about
that today in my lecture a little bit. How it's weird how it was
then. Yeah, it was a little bit late. You were asleep.
You were the guy that was sleeping. That was me. Sorry, it's
a heart sime my day. You know, it's getting to be dinner time.
No, I was eight years old, and yeah, what I was
talking about is how it's funny that correlates with when the Catholic Church starts indoctrinating
kids, because well, she shouldn't use that word, because they think that
that's when logic or the church decided hundreds of years ago, that's when logic
enters our being and we can decide for ourselves, and then they indoctrinate children.
So I was eight years old. I looked up on the living room
shelf so Whitley Streeber's classic book Communion and had this sort of flash and then
pictured an early homin in chimpanzee, a modern human, and then this alien
form, and yeah, that question entered my mind. Could they be us
from the future? And it's been a lifelong pursuit since then. I came
to realize because I've had about four or five other instances of conscious precognition,
and then I eventually realized that was one of them. It was a very
early the first instance of conscious precognition. I've had had dream precognition my entire
life. It's extremely common, but that that's one of a handful of times
that it's been like while I was awake and interacting with the material world,
so to speak. To quote Madonna, I guess so basically in a nutshell
for the first time listener of your theory in your books is basically it's us
evolved coming back from the future. Two examine more or less, well partly,
yeah so, and that part makes sense in relation to what I do
as a biological anthropologist, Like if I could pick up our past homin and
ancestors and study them, I would do the same thing. Think I've been
on a bunch of digs. I worked in South Africa two summers, I
worked at a one hundred and fifty thousand Neanderthal site in southern France for a
season. Tons of Native American sites at Ohio, Montana, and yes,
like you can only get so much from bones and teeth and artifacts, but
if we could pick them up, we would do all the same things that
people are reported doing or being subjected to buy these beans in these instances of
abduction. But that's obviously one small part of it. I think they're also
tourists in some occasions. I also think they're doing something for themselves, especially
with regard to the gammid extraction. You know, why do they always take
sperm samples for men eggs from women? Like? I don't think it's because
they're doing something to us. I think they're doing something for themselves, And
I list a number of reasons in my books, especially the second one,
like current trends. For instance, there's been a fifty percent reduction and sperm
counts and men over the last forty years, sixty percent in the Western world,
largely because of pollution. They think, you know, in vitro fertilization
selects four people who are arguably selected against or helping people reproduce that in nature
wouldn't be able to reproduce. There's just a lot of reduced fertility, fecundity
things. There could be a bottleneck in the future if all of these warnings
of cataclysm and wars come to pass, like you know, maybe they're trying
to get wild type genes from a time before these this massive bottle on neck
happens, you know, And we're just trending toward being a more homogenized population
in general, because it used to be separate human populations ud be gene flow
amongst them, and now we're all just becoming one inbred island of Earth.
Now I heard I remember reading something, or I do believe I read it
that within say the way things are going in the United States that they eventually
it will be brown eye brown here, and you know we're going to evolve
to that. If the trends say the same, that most of the guys
would be like the overpowering. Yeah. I mean, if you do average
out all of the different skin tones and eye colors and hair colors, it's
a brownish color, you know. So then the question becomes, if they
are descends white gray, why a lack of pigmentation, and this is an
interesting aspect of a recent human evolution. Actually about last twelve to possibly thirty
thousand years, we have been domesticating ourselves and with that comes more pro social
behaviors and a really interesting aspect. And I go into like the genetics of
this in my second book, is that across the board, whenever there's a
domestication happening with animals, and we've domesticated a lot of animals, we see
it in them. One of the first studies with boxes, but we see
the same thing in ourselves is that you have more dostile behaviors, you know,
growls turned to barks, tales go from up to down, and we
do the same thing. We are selected behavioral characteristics that are more pro social
where we interact with each other, we form union's collaborations as opposed to just
killing each other. Those are selected for. But another one is depigmentation,
because yeah, you average everybody out, we're going to be kind of a
brownish color. But then also if these trends toward a feminization of our cranial
facial form is the other one. If these trends that occur in association with
self domestication persist. That might help explain why the gray color comes about,
because we just lack of pigmentation, is domesticated entities interesting, well, a
lot of things. I could consider this, just like you know, if
you bring it down to the basics, the urge to mate, and you
know, a strong urge it is, Yeah, it is. But also
it has a lot to do with being attractive to each other. It always
seems like, you know, when I look at these old paintings, you
know, from four hundred years ago or whatever. You know, the people
there is very rare that was an attractive person, but attractive gravitates too attractive,
and the mating and all that, and an attractive changes over time too,
that's true. But in California, you know there's the beautiful people and
all that. You know. I mean, But what I'm getting at is
when you think about the grays, they're all very uniform. Yeah, I
think there's a couple of things behind that I've come to believe in Many others
have argued before this is an original material, that the gray is some of
them, at least maybe some kind of biologically engineered automatons like a drone,
A drone walking like drone. But I think at some point, like we're
right now, we're working in robotics like I robot and all of those.
We're making humanoid things largely for the sex industry because that's you know, the
cash cow, like how the Internet worked because of porn, you know,
like that's what makes money. People find ways to do it. So I
think there's gonna be like sex robot driven, very human looking and acting robots.
But then eventually we're going to realize it's way easier to do that by
just manipulating the human genome, you know. So, and then there's the
question of consciousness. Is consciousness imbued in this thing that you created with your
knowledge of genetics that you grow from an entity? Does consciousness enter that in
the way it enters us when your pineal gland turns on or at Earth or
whatever, or at the first heartbeat if you're catching so, is that thing
that we're seeing some sort of biologically engineered droid? And it would make sense
if you're sending things back through time or even interstellar you know you're not going
to initially send people and maybe the ones that crash are a biased sample of
those that are experimental, they're early stage. We're sending this prepro Graham droid
to do these things, so they're not human, but they're developed from human
DNA for this purpose, you know. And I don't necessarily believe that or
but it does make sense in the context of a the dangers of time travel
be all the weird shit that's been talked about, Biola rush and stuff with
the biologics, Like you're saying they're not human. So if they're manufactured,
if they're biological drones, that are that have human DNA? You know,
John ra Mirriz talks about this all the time that that's the real secret is
that these have human DNA. But if they're manufactured, you still have to
ask the question who made them? And if they have human DNA, we're
using our own DNA to make these more advanced robots where all the moving parts
are stupid. You know, we get to the point where we're like,
well we can do that just by making something from us that does this thing.
Then yeah, I think that could help explain some of those characteristics too.
And we make robots in our own image, you would expect them to
make them in their image, so maybe they look like them, I see,
but they perform a task, you know, yeah, yeah, and
they have all everything they need a lot of times here, you know,
there's no visible nose, maybe maybe nostrils, there's you know, a mouth
slit. Yeah, because they still have to breathe, they still need oxygen
for fuel, they still need pancakes, I guess for energy. Do they
eat as much? You know, are they getting given food some other way
or But at the same time, those those traits do mimic what we would
expect to see in the human future. So if they are droids, I
still think they're made by humans. But I just I'm not willing to say
that all of these things recovered are humans. I think we will probably outsource
that. And then you have like Whitley Streeber talking about the little gray that
took him. He kind of thought it was robotic, you know, the
ones that took Charles Hixon or Charles Yeah, I was getting Charles Hixon and
Calvin Parker was an actual robot, know that. Yeah, that was a
freaking robot and they said that too. But then yeah, with the you
know, weird and ten of things and the other elephant skin. But then
there are seemingly ones that are humanoid. But I think we need to extend
the categories. You know, it's not just human tall gray, short gray
hybrid. But then I think there might actually be like some not necessarily robotic,
Like that's the closest thing we can that we have that we can sort
of put in that frame of reference. But yeah, I think there may
be biologically manipulated. I don't know, it's just I'm honestly trying to evolve
my knowledge of what's going on here. And this is sort of a recent
thing, but just everything that's coming out, I'm trying to figure out how
it fits. And that just seems to make the most sense that we'd eventually
move past moving parts that he lubricated and yeah, and just start using genetics.
Yeah, and when will that become morally Okay, it's gonna be tomorrow.
I'm thirty seven. I don't know. See, that's the thing,
because it really does hinge on the consciousness question. Yeah, if we're making
something that doesn't feel it's just a worker, stems tell researchers getting you know,
i mean gets axed because of the you know, the more morals that
people think, you know, a lot of a lot of things have I
mean, it would be quite a push, But I mean we're talking who
knows what's going to happen in the future and how people will think. You
know, we always project our now, thinking on the past and on the
future. Yeah, and you know, a circle back. Even though I
hate that expression, I was talking about some of the problems that we're already
having with the kund of the infertility and the reasons behind it. It's very
possible that that drive to find, you know, designer babies or to cure
illness will cause us to use crisper, some newer technology that will probably come
after that, to manipulate our genome. If we modify something that becomes heritable,
where it ends up in our sperm and egg and gets passed on,
we could potentially create a serious problem for the human future. So maybe to
mitigate that, they come back and get jeans from before they did that.
Yeah, you know, so, I don't know. Maybe it's all related,
and then I'm creating these little time travel droids to take the fall Roswell
they screw something up with our tyre. Youome, I don't know. One
of the things I heard you say tonight at the talcas. You know,
you could be cherry picking these things, but you try to look at all
sides of it. Yeah, which I appreciate, you know, research like
that. So well, it is real quick. It's a fine line because
I'm trying to make a case for this theory. Yeah. Well, also
plain Devil's advocate, you know, bringing in these other cases that don't fit.
But I have to choose those two. And that's the problem. You
know. I would love to work with the sample of ten thousand UFO cases
and just study that, you know, but to make this case, I
have to select some and yeah, I try to acknowledge any potential biases and
and be be fastidious and picking us from different time periods. My second book,
it's ninety three years and five continents, you know, to get the
temporal and the spatchel and pulling ones like I said tonight with Betty Hill,
you know, the bastion of the et hypothesis because of the star map.
But regardless, in doing this, there's always going to be selection bias.
There's no way around them. Yeah, but admitting it I think is important
too, right. Yeah, Yeah, Now, my friend marketing Antonio,
I'm sure you know Mark. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he has.
One of the times I was speaking with him, I don't know, own
a restaurant or whatever. He talked about that he thought the dinosaurs were developing
a larger and larger brain, you know, before they became extinct with that
extinction event. So this is just an opinion. I'm going to ask you
what do you think would be if the dinosaurs were never wiped out? A?
Do you think we would be here? And do you think that they
would have developed an intelligence if their brains kept developing? A? No,
B. Yes, because I've seen your astic park and those velociraptors are smartest
ship. But no, so we wouldn't be here because what happened is that
there was an adaptive radiation that happened when dinosaurs daytime dinosaurs that didn't flyer someone
we're not eradicated, but limited significantly. And so what that did is it
allowed us homeothermic mammals that were only active at night to come out during the
day. And then we went everywhere, and our ancestors went up in the
trees about sixty five million years ago, and then we came down from the
trees about sixty eight million years ago. But If that hadn't happened, our
early a million ancestors couldn't have come out during the day. It would have
stayed underground. They wouldn't have gone in the trees, gotten steroscopic vision,
grasping fingers, all of these unique primate characteristics, and if we hadn't come
down from the trees, we wouldn't be humans. Yeah, so yeah,
that definitely had to happen. B was what was it? Like? Question?
Yeah, dude, what would happen if would they have developed the intelligence?
Yeah? What would happen if dinosaurs were here today with all these you
know, millions of years who think could be smart enough to maybe? But
they had a stupid little alarms? Yeah, the alarms, Like what do
you do with those? Yeah, you could get one those stand up desks,
you know, or you type like this, but you're not gonna like
make fire with flint. You probably couldn't even touch hands to get But no,
our hands are a big part of that. Like we're the only primate
that can touch our pinkie. Ask a chimpanzee you do that, you know,
don't flip them off and say yeah, yeah, but these hands are
brains standing up grade. There's so many things, unique things about humans that
went into why we can sit here and talk about this, you know,
and and they can't screw them for them. Yeah. Yeah. So another
thing I thought of when you were talking today and you made a good point.
You said that if we were to uh like go back in like a
species supposed to go back in time, and we were from Cincinnati, we
wouldn't go to Dubai. I think you said something along those lines, something
like that. But there is a there is a reason I'm saying you did
say something like that. Yeah, you kind of watched it there. Though
I'm not calling you out. I'm just saying that that is an important part
of the argument. Is what I was saying is that with temporal I think
one of the reasons why we see humans more often, and this was shown
by the doctor at grad Mitchell's study, is that the most commonly described form
as human just because so I equated that to geographic proximity, where you see
people in Cincinnati more often because if you live here, that's where you interact
with like you could travel they could travel here, but you see them less
often because they're farther away in space. So I think that's why we see
the reptilian's last, the mantis like humans last, the tall grays less,
because they're so far away from us in time that we're a tiny blip on
the radar, Like they could travel by any of these very different periods,
like the same way that people could travel across space. It was just a
metaphor. It was too far back in the room, I can I should
have talked aloud. That's my fault up. Well, my point was getting
back to this. It may it may not even be related now, but
I was trying to make this question fit using that because I'm always puzzled why
there's the same craft scene in the same location, like five nights in her
row instead of if they got here from wherever they came from, why don't
they explore other parts of the world whatever, And they're like, I was
just thinking of Leaspiegel's Lumberton, North Carolina. He went down there because of
the Yes, Lee Spiegel, he went down there because they were seeing the
police kept seeing this over and over again, you know, night after night,
and that's where I went down there and saw for himself. Now,
I mean, that's always puzzling to me. Why they show up in the
same place repeatedly, the Belgian Triangle UFO. Well, I mean, this
is just one case study, but I think it is telling because I talked
about the Mike and Leo Dorschat case from the I think nineteen thirty three,
it's first case study highlight in my second book. And they asked him that
like, why do you keep coming back here? Because little brother Mike,
who eventually died in the Korean War, asked him why do you keep coming
back here? And I showed this quote and it's entirety because I think it's
revealing is that they said, we keep coming back to this place to monitor
the environment as the environment gets deeper into trouble throughout the future, which and
they were collecting grasshoppers. That was the main way that they were getting that
environmental ecological data. And it's interesting because two things. It shows concern for
the environment again which is a big part of my talk, which their intent,
their origins and intent, which I think helps address the friend or folk
question. But then also it shows future knowledge. They said they didn't say
in case your world gets deeper into trouble, They said, as your world
gets deeper into trouble, as your environment gets deeper into trouble. So I
think that unto itself is revealing too. It's obviously not the case for all
of them. There's probably many, many different reasons that they're coming back to
the same place or the same region. Maybe has something to do with,
you know, like electromagnetism too. Steve Murrett talks about that there's certain places
where it's more conducive to entering and exiting these areas, you know. Another
quote from that same interview I highlighted part of his interview, but another thing
he says later, It's like, if they're interstellar, we would see them
coming and going all the time. There's like tens of thousands of UFO reports
every year, but they materialize and de materialize. If they're coming in from
different star systems, we would see highways, you know, we would catch
them going by the Moon all the time, and catch them going by the
Iss and we'd see them coming and going. But they don't. They pop
in and out of our existence. And that seems to indicate time travel.
If you have something materialized and your three dimensions of space, it indicates that
it moved through the only other dimension know of a time. You know,
you take a baby. I talk about this is a weird analogy in my
first book, a baby that doesn't have object permanence. You're holding an apple
in front of it, turns it said move the apple disappeared, you know.
But that's in space and time. We're taking apples and moving them through
that fourth dimension into other people's perceptions. You know, maybe the same craft
that's seen by you know, Joe Schmo and Kentucky is the exact same craft
that Ezekiel saw or Homo erectus. You know. I don't know if they
go back that far, but it could be the exact same craft. It's
just popping in and out of these different temporal reference rames. That's really interesting.
One of the things that it's sort of a paradox if you think about
it. If they come back in time and they tell basically take care of
the environment, and you hear that message a lot, but they're already from
the future, so they already did. That's the paradix. Yeah. I
met this guy right after my talk and we got into that. And because
because I've thought about that a lot too, it's like, are they warning
us about something? And I go into this in depth in my second book,
because like the nuke thing as an example, you know, are they
warning us that this is going to happen and we those that pay attention prepare
themselves, or are they trying to avert it? And in the block universe
model where everything self consistent, you don't change anything. So did they always
come back and give us these warnings? So we talk about it and we
don't do it because we see that's negative. But it didn't change anything.
They're just always coming back and giving us these warnings. What doesn't happen,
never happens, but they still give us the warning because they know that's the
thing that prevented it. Or many world's interpretation of quantum mechanics, you could
have change, You could have them coming back because in their timeline there was
a war. They're trying to avoid that. They come back say don't do
this, We don't do it. There's a separate timeline where it didn't happen.
But then there's paradox because you interjected change. Yeah, and so if
it never happened, how do they know to come back and tell us not
to do it. Well, there's the other timeline where they did because it
did happen that timeline, but this timeline where it didn't. Do they just
hop over that timeline now and they're like, oh sweet, you know there's
no nukes here, But do they exist in that timeline? Do they have
family or friends? Because everything's different, you know. So really the only
thing that matters as far as paradox is if there can be change, but
if there's not, and that is the conventional model among physicists and philosophers is
that there's no change in the block universe. So in my mind it becomes
a warning unless you know, we don't do it because of them, which
still isn't the change is just self consistent. Don't nink yourselves. A friend
of mind someone I'm sure you know, but I'd rather leave their name out
of it. Because they were doing work in Hollywood on a documentary they had
to do with mass extinction events, and he contacted separate scientists that study that
I don't know what they're called, I don't know what their titles are,
but he said, where do you think humans will be in a hundred years,
And like most of them said, we don't think that there's going to
be humans in a hundred years. There's going to be humans. Come on,
Yeah, Dick Cheney's got like a hundred bunkers all over the world.
Man, some people will survived. Even if there's a cateaglysm you know,
even if there's like asteroid nuclear war, people will survive. Well, you
know, here's the question. Since we're on this topic, and I and
I hope you answered that enough for did you have more to say? I
was going to plug my third book. All right, go ahead, and
just that's what my third books about, is it? Really? Yeah?
All right, it's about that that whole question of kind of the last two
questions or in timelines, and the fact that four future humans to exist,
we don't need everybody to survive. It could be seven people and they still
exist. So that brings me to the question that I've wanted to ask someone
like you. I can't imagine how humans made it through ice ages? How
did they make it through ice ages? We killed fuzzy warm animals and took
their skin. And fire we invented fire. We invent fire. Fires existed
since the sun. I started to try and go back in my mind,
and I was like, yeah, I started with the sun. Actually,
probably earlier sons than that maybe even the bang had some fire involved. I
don't know, but no, when we harness the power of fire. There's
an interesting correlation actually between when we first started making fire Tomo erectus about one
point eight million years ago, and when we started napping stone tools, because
what happens when you strike flint against flint, it makes a spark. We
lived in a pretty dry area of East Africa. It's very likely that we're
napping stone tools and fire formed under your feet, and you're like, oh
my god, there's a god in these rocks, you know, But no,
it's just what happens. And then they a lot of stuff happened,
the language and grouping people around fire. But no, I think I think
I forgot what we were talking about. Well, it usually doesn't happen.
How the heck I did? Yeah, how the heck did they survive during
the Yeah? Yeah, yeah, fire fire, fire, so you could
stay warm with fire. Once we control it, we can make it anywhere.
Yeah, but what about sustenance plants? Things like animals were hunting giant
ass animals, mammoth five weeks? You know, where did they survive on
when they? I mean, did everything migrate to the warmer areas. It's
a crazy thing to me. I got this moose that lives in my yard,
well it lives in our canon. It comes in my yard a lot.
I spent a whole week in a fenced in area of my yard just
eating the ship out of my trees. And I'm like, bro, I
like those trees, you know, But also you were here first, so
have at it cool. You know when I go out there and it's just
like a nub, Like this giant aspen is just a numb. They don't
necessarily just eat things that grow on the ground. And maybe mammoths too.
They have those big giant teeth, just like a moose, you know,
so maybe they're eating tree tree branches to it. It eats the willows and
the aspens in the winter, and then it just mows down on on grass
throughout the summer. And the elk do too. But they would have to
go away from you know, you're talking about the glaciers being two miles high.
They have to be the only thing that would survive would be in their
temperate areas, I would imagine, or well, yeah, but we didn't
live on top of the glaciers either, you know. It ain't you ever
seen the Mother of Dragons show? Is it called Game of Thrones? Oh?
Yes, you know the big wall like the King of the North.
They aren't living on top of that wall, they're living underneath it, you
know. And nobody, nobody could live on that Animals didn't either, and
that's why. But you have to remember time again, that wall moved north
and south seasonally and also geologic time. So and it's quite has read of
this paper recently about how there's congregations. I think it was in France around
the door down River Valley, one of my favorite places. Just got to
visit there recently went to Lasco Cave floated the door, done on a canoe
one day. It's a major theme in my last book too. Went there
to do the research to write this book. Actually. But so as that
wall of ice came down, you know, it forced people together or to
occupy these areas that were lush because the animals were concentrated to you know.
So it's like it it almost like there's a lot of games my kids play,
these games where there's like a shrinking world, like like Fortnite for instance.
You know, the world shrinking, so it forces all of the enemy
combatants together to where if there's only a few left, they have to fight
each other. They can't just tide out, you know. And it's almost
like the Ice Age did that in North America too, where it forces you
to be here, but then it opens up, you know, and then
modern humans came in and killed them all anyway, so it didn't matter and
all the animals. But no, it's not like we're living on top of
the ice. We still had all the re sources. That ice just forced
us and then it all disappeared anyway. So so here's another one question I'd
like to ask someone with your knowledge, and it's just speculation on my end
totally, but say the Earth is we know the Earth is over four billion
years old, So is it possible that some type of species existed at some
point and there was some type of event that vulcanized the whole surface and we
lost all of the fossils of that time period and then it starts up again.
No, that's impossible, Okay, because they found things that are close
to the four billion year old. We have evidence of life. Yeah,
going back to the origins of life three point eight billion years ago, there's
no place let me put it this way, there's no way all things could
be erased everywhere at the same time. Even if we set off all the
nukes, even a fasteroid comes, I mean, the asteroid it took out
the dinosaurs didn't erase all evidence of dinosaurs, you know, even if there
was another one ten years later after they all died, we still have that
it hit the Yokatan area just outside of Mexico and the Gulf of Mexico.
And that adds to our geologic knowledge because it spreads information all over the planet,
but it's more concentrated than those areas. You know, you get farther
away still find evidence. So there's a layer I forget what it's called,
but we look for it all throughout Montana because it's this volcanic eruption that just
laid down this tiny little layer and we can see the ash still all over
the place. You dig down about two not even two muks, like a
three fourths of a meter depending on the sedimentation, and you'll find that and
that's like, oh, we know exactly when that was. So now you
have a time shot there. And it's the same thing with you know,
the volcanoes and East Africa. We can date the fossils by the potassium forty
potassium argon dating the volcano that laid down that information. It resets that atomic
clock, so you have this layer above them, below the fossils, and
you can very accurately date those fossils even though you can't date them themselves with
like carbon fourteen because as a half life of I think seven thousand years or
something, you can only go through so many half life like six or seven.
But we can use that atomic clock potassium argon dating thing to date on
either side of that. So even these big massive events help us. They
don't hurt us, they don't e race everything. And yeah, like this,
I don't know if this is why you're asking it, but it's one
of the few theories that is just dumb, is the breakaway civilization thing.
It's just stupid. There's absolutely no evidence for it and doesn't make sense.
Well, it's good to ask them. Like another thing that always just a
question that would I can't sleep at night I think about all these weird things.
But as the earth think actually growing, we think about sediment and sediment
of course a lot of its vegetation and stuff that dies and you know what
what causes it, but also you know we're getting you know a little bit
of say, meteor meteorites coming in and you know, things like that,
just the Earth actually growing mass at all, or just stay pretty steady.
I don't know. Actually, it's not something I've ever thought about. I
don't even know if I could offer like a speculative idea. I mean,
that's where oceans came from. I guess is yeah comment supposedly yeah, supposedly
yeah? Or God turned on a hoose. Yeah. I'm kind of divided
between those two theories at the moment. And when one last question, we're
not all over, I didn't turn on what about people have thought about like
pan spermia sperm like, oh, the idea that everything seated from different I
mean, who cares, honestly, if there's life anywhere, it could end
up other places, you know, and yeah, it makes sense, like
we know our water got here from comments, right, so we know that
life started in water? Did life come from the frozen water? You know?
Like tartar grades can survive anything. You could pack them on top of
your marijuana pipe and smoke them and they'd still be in your lungs. And
then you die and then crawl out like sweet, that was a fun ride.
Like things just some life forms can survive for a long time. But
but who cares, Like, who cares where life came from? Whether it
was here somewhere else. I don't think it. I guess. I guess
the reason that comes up is because of extra trust you real life, right,
Like, that's why people care about that. So if there's life on
comments, I wonder if there were that, if people were seated, that's
a thinking here a lot. I mean maybe an interesting thing to me is
that the Earth is about four point five billion years old. It was all
volcanoes and crazy. It's just like a bubbling mass. And then once we
had an atmosphere in liquid water, almost instantly of life. Yeah, did
that life right here on a comment from somewhere else? Did it just come
about through the process of entropy? And I mean we're in tropy reducers.
You know, sunlight, had sunlight, water, heat, you have all
of those in this early Earth environment. And so I always take that to
mean that if there's life here and it happened that soon after this planet was
habitable, it's probably everywhere. I would think so. But it's probably not
an upright walking hominin like us, because we have a very specific like we
were talking about earlier. If the dinosaurs hadn't died, we wouldn't be here,
Yeah, you know, there'd be more involve mammals, but they'd still
be underground. So there's all of these specific events. Dinosaurs diet, and
this is just broad snapshots. Dinosaurs die, mammals come out, aren't supposed
to go in the trees, We come down from the trees. Even over
that course of time, we didn't have to be as intelligent as where we
had culture. There's this feedback loop with culture and our brain development that seems
very very rare that that would ever happen again the exact same way somewhere else.
Yeah, but you have people like Simon Conway Morris who say this convergent
evolution everywhere. I don't think he's right, but he's smart, and maybe
it is. And I say dumb shit all the time, so maybe I'm
wrong, you know, but it just doesn't make sense how that would happen
so many times in so many places, And like I said in my talk
today, they would happen at the same time. The universe is fifteen billion
years old. Almost, what are the odds in that fifteen billion years that
we would line up just like this? Yeah, I find it highly improbable,
but it could happen. It's just it's about numbers for me. Yeah.
Okay, So a lot of systems where there's planets are binary stars for
one, there's also everything, there's all kinds of different gravity. Wouldn't that
all these things affect how we evolve? I think? So, Yeah,
it's something I sort of come back to a lot. Almost even harp On,
you could say that our bipedalism, you know, like I said in
my talk, like I say in my books, were the only upright walking
mammal, we're the only habitually upright walking primate. And on this planet small
planet, as I mentioned, of between two and four percent of all planets.
Exoplanets have been discovered so far, which is pretty representative of things in
our Milky Way are the same size or smaller than Earth. So if it's
this rare on this planet with nine point meters per square gravity, it's bound
to be even rarer on these much bigger Earth like exoplanets. And we suffer
from all kinds of problems too. I didn't get the end of this in
my lecture, But yeah, herniated disks, bad backs, bad knees,
varicose veins, hernie us, what are the butt things? The hemorrhoids.
Hemorrhoids are a result of that. So yeah, we're not great at it.
But the benefits it conferred outweigh the negative costs. We call an evolutionary
trade off in biology. So yeah, it seems like based on the exo
planet data from NASA and the exoplanet study at the University of air Cebo sorry
AIRCIBI Laboratory at the University of Puerto Rico, it's not likely to happen.
You know. Again, there could be convergent evolution. It could happen on
the right planet. But coming back to what we're talking about earlier, are
they close enough to find us? Are they close enough to travel here?
Yeah? Would they? You know? And if they did, why not
say hi? Why not just be like, hey, we looked just like
you. It's crazy and we came from this planet. What are the odds?
You know? But they're they're not doing that. It's a very different
interaction, and I think that interaction, the covert aspects of it, make
more sense than the time travel context. Yeah, very good. Well,
thanks so much, Michael. Thank you, marm Always always a pleasure.
Never got to shake your hand after an interview. That's a fun things,
right, all right, take care. Hey wait, where can someone find
Drew and your books and all that porn hub. I'm gonna keep all this
stuff in No, I got I got a website. Just google it.
I don't know, yah, Google, Michael, I'll put it in the
short. Oh that's even better. Thank you. Thank you for that,
Bet. All right, you take care of you too, all right,
see you next week. We'll be back with Jonathan Wigan, and thanks so
much for hanging in tonight. Keep your eyes to the sky.