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Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis, your host,

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and we've got a great one for
you this evening. I was at the

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move On Symposium in Cincinnati and sat
down and talked with Thiago Tecchi of Brazil

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and Mike Masters. So it's a
two part prerecorded coming up. I'll be

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here in the chat room during during
the show, I just wanted to let

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everyone know that my good friend Lie
Spiegel, this is just an update of

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what happened recently. Is uh.
He passed away, of course, and

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I've mentioned this last week. For
those of you that did not hear that

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this, I apologize. He did
pass away on the fifteenth of August and

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the people at the Huffington Post,
where he worked for many years, went

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out to have drinks in his honor, and they came up with this wonderful

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idea of sending Lee's ashes into space. So and I thought it was so

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fitting. So In and We're going
to be running a tribute to him on

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the twenty first and of September,
and I'll be posting that, of course

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on this show and talking about that. A whole bunch of us are getting

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together for that. So the go
fund me text is in the show notes

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in the YouTube text on this,
so check that out and donate if you

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feel up to it. So I
would first of all, I would like

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to say that Charles Lear's blog is
part two of last week's a nineteen seventy

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six British UFO and humanoid encounter with
paranormal overtones. So I'd like to talk

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to you a little bit about next
week's guests because I think it's very important.

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I'm really looking forward to it.
Now. This is Jonathan Wigan.

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This is the second time he'll ever
be talking about it, and I don't

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think you'll ever hear him talk about
this again. And so Jonathan was a

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former Marine Lance corporal. He was
involved in Project Laser Strike in Peru in

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the nineteen nineties late nineties. Back
in nineteen ninety seven, he was called

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out to a crash. They went
out for about three hours in a Humby

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along with I think four other humps
and they get to this crash site and

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there's something different about it right away. It's an incredible incident with a tear

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drop shaped craft and it's wedged in
the side of the rocks like a ledge.

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But he can actually get there without
repelling or anything, and it looks

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like it was damaged, possibly by
He's his opinion was that it looks like

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it might have been hit by a
Hawk missile which they used with the Project

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Laser Strike. This had to do
with drug running and things like that,

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and you know, he went up
to the craft. It was changing colors,

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sort of like an pearl opalescence,
but changing colors, and so is

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a fluid the running out of it. It's just an incredible story, and

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he is going to be talking about
that. Oh yes, and armed men

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in black camel with no insignia showed
up and aggressively they took over the scene.

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Just the rest of the story.
He was basically shackled and taken away

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and told not to speak about it. He persisted in talking about the fellow

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servicemen and they up. He ended
up paying the consequences for that. After

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its discharge in two thousand and one, he felt like he wanted to talk

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about no I'm sorry after his discharge
and in around two thousand and one.

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He was not discharged in two thousand
and one, but around two thousand and

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one he felt like he had to
talk about it in a public venue.

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And he heard about Coast to Coast
and the topics they discussed there. So

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he contacted Coast to Coast and he
asked for someone to help him. They

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put him in touch with doctor Stephen
Greer, who at that time was doing

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pretty good work. And so back
in two thousand and two, Leslie Kane

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and Bud Hopkins both were involved in
flying Jonathan to New York City where he

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met with him and he was interviewed
at that time by doctor Stephen Greer.

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It's a very well known interview.
It's up. I can post a link

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to it in the show notes.
But he has absolutely no interest in being

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part of the UFO community in any
type of way or speaking about this again.

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And when I talked to him last
night, he said they spends most

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of the time trying to forget about
the whole thing. He really suffered PTSD

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from this situation. You'll know why
once you hear a story. So,

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for the last three years, a
wonderful listener to this show who really likes

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the way I conduct the interviews.
He's reached out to me and both Jonathan

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knows him and has been suggesting that
Jonathan speak on my show for the last

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three years, and Jonathan has kept
turning it down, said he really has

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no interest in talking about it.
Then in June, David Grush comes out

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talks about his whole situation, and
then Jonathan says that he feels it's time

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to talk about it one more time. So that's coming up next week's September.

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I feel I wouldn't have him on
my show and do everything I am

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doing if I did not think he
was credible. I've asked two former FBI

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trained people and also a detective to
watch his interview, and they've come back

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to me and say they've seen no
signs of deceit. He goes into great

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detail and they feel like it's a
true story. And I'm not saying I

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don't have proof that it's a true
story, unfortunately, but it is a

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very credible story. And so he
is going to speak one more time,

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and he is using his real name, Jonathan Wagen, and all of that.

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I ask of you out there is
you please do not try to contact

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him. He's really not interested in
talking to the media or anyone else.

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So stay tuned for that on next
week a week from today's September five,

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and that will I think it's going
to be probably the most important show that

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I have ever done, for sure. So anyway, thank you for listening

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to all that, and I am
going to get on with the interviews today.

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I think you'll find them enjoyable.
I'm with Chicago Chiquechi. Welcome to

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the show. Thank you very much. Good to have you. You were

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on quite a while ago. I
can't even remember when it was. It

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was four or five years ago.
Yeah, I think it's in stuff in

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seventeen eighteen nineteen and I don't know, it's something like that. Yeah,

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yeah, but I appreciate it.
Was nice to see you here and finally

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meet you and here you are up
from Brazil. So and we talked a

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little bit in line. I asked
you if you were if James Fox was

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in touch with you. Yeah,
he did. He did at the beginning

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of his documentary Terry, and I
was very very good to see he did.

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At God, it took several years
to finish it, that's right.

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Yeah, So in the in my
opinion, was a great it's a great

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film. Yeah. And what do
you think about Well, first of all,

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we're going to get into that a
little bit. But there's a lot

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of people that are new to the
UFO world constantly here from new people that

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are just just found my channel.
And so I guess I'm going to ask

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you what you know basically, what
got you interested in this topic? And

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you know what started you on this
research level? Well, I always said

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it was born with new following my
blood. There's no way to explain because

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things I remember. I love it
to read comic books like Spider Man Captain

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America in Brazil and the Beadle that
recruits did corp magazine from night ed Marton,

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Ed Barton if it was a recruit
from the army, I think beetle

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in English? Yeah, I know, I know what you're talking about,

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Uh, Peter Bailey. Yes.
In Portuguese is we call like zero corp

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So and the UFO magazines. See
the one was a kid I start to

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read. I read that and my
father liked the subject. And my father

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had a book called Chairs of the
Gods. Oh yes, yeah, and

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what came out. He didn't let
me to touch it. It's his book.

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And when he getting the things from
his closeting the book and in a

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bed and it started to read it
and see the some pages and then he

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gave to me and uh needy two. I saw usos h very very normal

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normal. It's a close encounter of
s your own kind. I just saw

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a light that came from the sky
and the disappear in a mountain and then

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wake up, appear again, make
a movement, got brighter, reddish and

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disappear. How old did you say
you are? Eighty two? I was

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eighty years old, and I remember
it cleary clearly in my mind. And

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since then I got more interested in
the UFLO subject. And then I when

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I moved from Rio to Brazilia,
where I live now, I joined a

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group EBA t is a Edit to
research the ex aggressional phenomena and I start

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to research. I never stopped.
It's almost thirty years on it. Wow

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about that? So, and what
are some of the cases that you've besides

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the one and Vargina. What are
some of the cases that you find really

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compelled? And Brazil Virginia is the
top twelve, top three, let's say

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top three, because they have also
in Brazil the Plate operation, the pop

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Pride investigated, and we have the
Night of the UFOs in Brazil. It

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was in ninety eighty six when twenty
twenty one UFOs were chased in pursuit by

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five version or five jet fighters and
it took six hours during the night until

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the door and they're trying to get
this under five hundred five and trying to

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pursue it and try to to get
closer to the this UFO, but it

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was impossible because when the jet get
closer and they've just got match fifteen,

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so it's impossible pursuit. And we
had a plate operation that happened in eighty

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seven seven where uthfuls were shooting light
of beings of light and people and get

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the iron from their blood. Why, I said, because everybody that got

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hit by that light or whatever that
yeah spot right stoody that We searched that

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and they went to the hospital and
they got an india and lack of iron

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in the blood. So everyone and
one person die, right officially one person.

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Only person died. And the version
of course Virginia happened in ninety ninety

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six when a used for crashing in
Virginia City is a city of a minage,

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United State, and at least five
to seven aliens or seen and we

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got so far we know that at
least two they were captured dead, one

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was shot by military and died.
Another one, why why would they shoot

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him? I mean, you know, unarmed, I mean, don't naked

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and afraid. We don't know.
We don't know, we don't know,

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we don't know. Another one was
captured alive and the military suress died after

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that because they touch it, yeah, touch it in the a and got

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an affection a week later and died
two weeks later. And he was a

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young guy too, and young guy
healthy. Yeah, so we don't know.

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And now were we were pressing,
pushing the army to disclosure the docments

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we are using in Brazil all all
like the Fried of Information Act, you

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have a here in the United States. We have a similar law in Brazil

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that we are asking for that he
could have secrecy that at maximum Brazil should

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be plenty five years. Just pass
it so they they they must give the

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documents to the public. And they
trying, they are trying to close it

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so well a lot of times you
hear and here in the States were sometimes

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documents end up being missing. They
can't find them, you know what I

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mean that you can expect that could
possibly, yeah, because when we ask

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he gave us documents with a black
all black documents and there's we found in

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some documents a number of protocol that
we're not a blanket and we asked for

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that protocol protcourse like a documentation,
and they answer us, well, there's

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no protocol like that. Wait a
minute, you gave us a document blanket

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or in black, but miss you'll
you'll let you leave a protocol number any

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burgh sail if you have. If
you lose or destroy a document, you

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have to create a protocol showing that
to destroy it or you miss it,

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you have to. You have to
do it because if if you don't do

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it, it's a crime. So
they have to answer us about that.

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Yeah, and we are pushing yeah, and what so you do like you

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fill out the forms like we do
here. Yes, you just have to

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wait patiently to see what you get
for a response. Yes they have.

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They have fifteen days to response,
but they can you know, uh,

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take more fifteen days and take more
fifty days. They can expand the limits

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the deadline, but they have to
answer it in one of our answers questions,

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Uh, there's no way to to
give more time for them. So

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a federal Department of Brazil just asked
to the army you have fifteen days to

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give them the answer. Where are
this document destroyed? If you destroyed the

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name of protocol? If the missing
the name the number of the protocol,

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that they open an investigation to find
out how that document missing. Wow,

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so we are it'll be interesting,
Yes, we are. We are pushing

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it in. We'll try to get
it. Yeah. Now do you believe

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I've I've spoken many times to James
Fox about this situation in particular, and

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there were some things he told me
that I can't He asked me not to

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talk about, so I haven't been
able to talk about them. But as

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far as you know, do you
think that there is video and photography of

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the beings themselves? Yeah? And
you think that it's out there? Yeah,

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there is, because let's be be
honest. If you say you all

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UFO or an alien, won't you
take a picture of course investigation or a

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popsy? And I believe there's a
photos and there's a film, but we

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don't have ned of them. Now, what about not a lot was spoken

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about the craft what supposedly may have
crashed and is there a speculation about that.

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I don't remember James getting really into
that about how that was retrieved or

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as anybody you know, I know
there was also an American military presence,

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which always seems to have. Yeah, in a in a in a film

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of the James Fox film there's he
got the he presence on on the on

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the film the person whose who saw
the aircraft crashing? Right, Yes,

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he was. He was passing and
a road and saw that something and then

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he got there because he thought he
was an airplane. The military. The

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military who was there and pushed him
away. Yeah. And the night before

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a couple that will leave it near
the Virginia they saw the UFL. It's

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a slender UFL with a hole in
the back and white smoke from the back.

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But it was very slow. The
UFO was very slow and lower and

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get lower. But they never saw
that thing crashing. But that witness saw

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it. I just forgot his name, but he saw it. And in

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the quetry by by James Fox,
uh, they went to this that place,

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and they've been such a cry because
it's right. I remember, we

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remember, we call him everything that
happened to him, and he has no

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reason to lie, right, no
reason that that thing is those things that

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00:19:21,079 --> 00:19:26,519
can rule your ruin your life,
yes, not get not expect to be

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famous and the Hollywood actor. No, it's not that good. It's not

207
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that good, I can tell you. Yeah, There's there's so many situations

208
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:41,200
that I've seen in looking into this
topic where I think, why would this

209
00:19:41,279 --> 00:19:45,000
person make this up? You know, I mean there's so many times where

210
00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:49,960
there's just no benefit. No,
no one's out, I mean, no

211
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:56,480
one goes into this. Maybe there's
a very small fraction of people that think

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00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,880
they're going to make money out of
it somehow. I remember I was calling

213
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:06,319
tacted by someone that said that he
had a really great picture of the UFO,

214
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,279
but he wanted ten thousand dollars for
it. This was someone you know,

215
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,960
that just was looking online. They
saw my website and they thought,

216
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:17,599
oh, well, you know,
you know, but it's so rare that

217
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:25,400
people associate money with us. Given
an example of Chev's Walton is he rich?

218
00:20:26,839 --> 00:20:32,319
No, No, travel is not
rich. And he keeps telling what

219
00:20:32,559 --> 00:20:37,440
he experienced it. Yeah, and
he lost friends, he lost charts,

220
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:45,799
but he keep because well I spoke
with with him a year ago, we

221
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:52,880
will we want to get in some
power and he and we met from years

222
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,599
and uh, he still saying the
same, the same same thing. Yes,

223
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:04,359
yeah, he ain't rich. Well, he told me that he you

224
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,279
know, he's retired, so he
uses his pension a lot of times to

225
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:15,119
go to these conferences and you know, they'll they'll sometimes pay his way sometimes,

226
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,079
you know, pay for his hotel
room. But he just does it

227
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,960
because he wants to get it out
there about version. You know, we

228
00:21:22,079 --> 00:21:30,720
have testimonies from military that participates from
the cover up operation, but some are

229
00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:37,799
still in the army. In some
so the retired officers to militaries, but

230
00:21:37,839 --> 00:21:44,680
they keep saying, we don't want
to show our faces, right peause they

231
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:49,599
are in the army and in the
other that are not because they're afraid to

232
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:56,559
get some trouble. M hmm,
yeah, I mean I don't I don't

233
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think that's unreasonable to feel that way. I mean, with all the ridicule

234
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,240
over the years and everything. You
know. Of course, it's now,

235
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,519
you know, things have changed a
lot seem to have in this country where

236
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people accept a lot more. But
it's going to take a while before a

237
00:22:12,039 --> 00:22:17,480
lot of people will feel comfortable talking
about it. I think, Yeah,

238
00:22:17,559 --> 00:22:22,440
what's happening here in the United States. Uh, the people, the witness

239
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:27,920
that want to to talk now,
they have, they have more security more

240
00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:37,880
you know, they are not afraid
to tell because now they have congressmen behind

241
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,519
them. Oh you can talk,
you can talk. Nothing's gonna happen to

242
00:22:40,559 --> 00:22:45,559
you. Yeah, well yes,
except you know this. There's an example

243
00:22:45,599 --> 00:22:51,440
though, with David Grush. You
know, there's it seems like almost on

244
00:22:51,599 --> 00:22:55,839
a daily basis, you can see
that there's an article out. I think

245
00:22:55,880 --> 00:23:00,559
that one just came out, and
you know, people are welcome to their

246
00:23:00,559 --> 00:23:03,079
opinion and stuff like that. But
still there's they seem to be trying to

247
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:11,880
just credit in different ways. Is
the is the the tactic they have because

248
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:18,599
they cannot in the past they just
got just just besidence. Let that,

249
00:23:18,759 --> 00:23:23,559
let it die, that this information
die itself. Now on in Parliament,

250
00:23:23,599 --> 00:23:27,759
in a in Senate, they have
to talk, they have to answer,

251
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and they now using our other tactics. One of them does give all all

252
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uh no credit for David as they
did to Bubblo's art m H. In

253
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my opinion, my opinion, and
I think this is the thing that they

254
00:23:49,559 --> 00:23:55,039
do in the whole world, in
Brazil as well. It's now it's changing

255
00:23:55,279 --> 00:24:00,279
in Brazil. It's changing in Brazil. But when I was younger and I

256
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said, oh no, I research
you, ufl. That's an exist you

257
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,880
are, you are to have learning. You're crazy now that people come to

258
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,279
me. Oh, I saw something
very nice. I know you. I

259
00:24:14,559 --> 00:24:17,720
know your YouTube channel. I saw
you in a history channel. I saw

260
00:24:17,759 --> 00:24:22,759
you on TV. Yeah. Yeah, and it's changing, yes, changing,

261
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,839
that's right. Now. Have you
ever worked with anyone in Chile?

262
00:24:27,839 --> 00:24:32,920
Chili? Chili? Yes? How
did you go? Queenz Alida? Okay,

263
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,119
I know jose Le Do you remember
Jose I heard, yes, yeah,

264
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,640
I know, a real nice,
real nice gentleman. It's nice that

265
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:45,400
they take UFO seriously. That's you
know, through in the government there,

266
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Chili, Uruguay, what else?
I think, Peru and Ecuador. But

267
00:24:52,279 --> 00:24:57,759
I know, I know that Chile
and Uruguay had inside the government they had

268
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a department of a group civil,
civilian and military working together. In Uruguay

269
00:25:06,599 --> 00:25:11,000
they had the military studying UFOs with
help of ethologies. In Argentina as well,

270
00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:15,880
they had it, and Chile they
do. Brazil, we got closer,

271
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very closer. In two thoy thirteen
we got a meeting at the at

272
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the Ministry of Defense in Brazil with
the Army, Navy and air Force and

273
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were we were arranging to create a
group civilian and military to investigate, but

274
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then we had we had the impeachment
of the president. So oh yes,

275
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we lost everything and then now we're
trying to rebuild it. Yeah. Yeah,

276
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Now where do you live geographically in
the country, I mean in the

277
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middle of Brazil in the middle of
Brazil Brazilia. Yeah, Brazilia the capital

278
00:25:56,839 --> 00:26:03,680
and there, sir uh. Is
there like a reporting where people can report

279
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,160
at UFO signing in Brazilia? Yes? Yes, how does that work?

280
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:15,359
They got me by email Brazilia.
Well, Brazila has two million people living

281
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:23,359
in Brazilia even and working in Brazilia. And the isn't small Brasils very small,

282
00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:30,599
very small. Is that is a
square, the df is square And

283
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,880
the people know me there because my
parents in radios, in podcasts and chief

284
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:41,240
in Brazilian in Brazilia, and they
got touch with me by email by WhatsApp.

285
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I don't know how they got my
WHATSOPP number, I don't know,

286
00:26:47,079 --> 00:26:51,599
but it's very common. People got
in touch with me on Facebook, so

287
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,640
they report to you, reproach to
me. So there's no like service like

288
00:26:55,759 --> 00:27:00,039
move On Reporting Center or anything.
I always directed him to do it.

289
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,759
Through the CMS, move on.
I see, yeah, but I don't

290
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,720
don't dismiss when they get to me. I just okay, let's do it.

291
00:27:08,759 --> 00:27:15,880
But please started the cmespo the Great
Problems. It's in English. Oh

292
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,079
yes, of course. Of course
if you click on the right side of

293
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:26,200
my house, you can translate to
Portuguese. But people don't understand too much

294
00:27:26,319 --> 00:27:32,640
that so they get information, got
information to me and to me and I

295
00:27:32,799 --> 00:27:37,799
try to investigate. I see,
so you actually help them report that way?

296
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,680
Yeah? And how would you say
the activity is as first? Like

297
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:48,200
how many times do you get contacted, say on a monthly basis or something

298
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,480
like that, twice, three times
a day a day, a day,

299
00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:59,480
a day, a day a day
by Instagram, Facebook, mester, what's

300
00:27:59,559 --> 00:28:04,920
up? Mail? And people say
I saw something or in a film or

301
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:14,000
a photo ninety five ninety six percent
explainable. We can explain. Yeah,

302
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,279
no promo at all, And people
get mad with me, Yeah, because

303
00:28:18,319 --> 00:28:22,440
they wanted to be exceterracial U.
Yeah, I should that happened too.

304
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,920
Yeah, you came to me.
I'm telling you what I think it is,

305
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:32,440
yes, except to you to accept
or not. Yeah, but and

306
00:28:32,559 --> 00:28:37,640
that we have five four percent that
cannot explain. Yeah, in that case,

307
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:45,799
we go deeper to try to to
explain to the people, to the

308
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,799
person that's sent to us. Yeah, yea. And can you talk about

309
00:28:49,839 --> 00:28:53,480
some of them that have been really
compelling that people have reached out to you?

310
00:28:53,599 --> 00:28:59,000
I mean, have there been some
that are just really amazing? Well?

311
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:04,160
Uh, I was investigating a UFO
casing. Gama is a city near

312
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:10,000
Brazilia. There's a UFO was seen
in a for three days an adult.

313
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:18,720
It was happening two thousand and twenty
two and near a prison female prison.

314
00:29:19,599 --> 00:29:26,279
The UFO was over the prision and
make several movements in the sky and had

315
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:33,599
no sound, and the witness recorded
and sent for to a friend that knows

316
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:41,039
me, and I started to to
to investigate the skate. I thought that

317
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,920
was a drone. He make it
a drawing of that of a drone,

318
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:51,440
but that in that are is forbidding
to have drowne because there's a prison there.

319
00:29:51,839 --> 00:29:55,240
So I got in touch with the
military police that control of the prison

320
00:29:55,839 --> 00:29:59,200
and asked him, ask them and
they said, no, there's no drawn

321
00:29:59,319 --> 00:30:03,799
here. We're not using drone in
this area is forbidden. We can see

322
00:30:03,799 --> 00:30:10,079
if there's a drone we shut down
the drone with their weapons, especially weapons,

323
00:30:10,519 --> 00:30:15,759
and I start you looking for more
witnesses in that area, and I

324
00:30:15,839 --> 00:30:22,400
found it three more witnesses that the
same day. There was three days,

325
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:29,519
but in some days they saw something
and there was and it was a very

326
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:38,960
large square shape object, big like
five or six meters. And one of

327
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:48,559
these witnesses said that that UFO or
coupe something like that almost landed, but

328
00:30:48,799 --> 00:30:56,839
when his dogs start to barking,
the uth just flew away. For me

329
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:02,319
the first time that that happened,
because normally when the UFO appears, the

330
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:07,480
animals got getting silence. Yeah,
there's all types of reactions. When the

331
00:31:07,559 --> 00:31:12,279
summerments doing a talk on that.
She's been on the book. Oh,

332
00:31:12,359 --> 00:31:15,759
yes, I read the book.
It is really good book. Yes,

333
00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:22,400
So I concluded. I concluded that
it was a ufou. I cannot explain

334
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,000
it's not her daughter plane, was
not a helicopter, was not a drone,

335
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,759
nothing like that. And I tried
to find if in a in a

336
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:37,799
in the terrain has some burning grass, burning grass, but there's nothing because

337
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:44,759
you have never landed. And but
there was three different, four different witnesses.

338
00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:49,759
That makes the case more readable.
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah,

339
00:31:49,799 --> 00:31:56,839
so it was very interesting. Well
I close the case like UFO,

340
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,160
but who knows speaking of the word
ufo, and I just started to say,

341
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:06,799
UAP, what do you call them
in Brazil? Brazil was still calling

342
00:32:07,079 --> 00:32:13,559
ufo. Yeah, because it's fine
with me. We say we say Avenish

343
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:19,599
is Anish? Is ufo in Portuguese? The same thing just translated and the

344
00:32:19,759 --> 00:32:25,000
UAP. I'm trying to put more
up in my articles, in my in

345
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:30,720
my speech, in my programs,
my videos, but people still ask me,

346
00:32:31,079 --> 00:32:38,400
what's up is the UFO said the
same thing the other day? Yeah,

347
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:43,039
that's right, that's right. And
so do you have other people that

348
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,359
like help you out? I mean, if all these people are calling you,

349
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:50,000
I mean, is there any type
of group you have there? Yeah?

350
00:32:49,519 --> 00:32:54,839
I have the Brazilian Commission of Athologists, which I'm present, and they

351
00:32:54,880 --> 00:33:00,640
help me. And then we have
a person people in Brazil, have one

352
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:06,960
in Brazilia, three or four in
San Paolo, whom one in he wouldn't

353
00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:15,559
he wouldn't do state. And what
happened in Brasilia I deal with, and

354
00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:20,799
what happened in other stated I sent
to them. But now I'm trying to

355
00:33:20,839 --> 00:33:24,599
get more people involvid like move on
Brasilve. Yeah, I have to have

356
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:34,720
more people associated to move on doing
the field researchers at skate field field training.

357
00:33:36,039 --> 00:33:43,559
And because there are many times I
cannot investigate all the cases and I

358
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,880
needed help. Sure, and I
will try to do that. I mean

359
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:51,960
a lot of these people that are
volunteering have a real job, you know

360
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,759
I do. I have a real
job. Yeah, have you so?

361
00:33:55,519 --> 00:34:01,640
And and you spend all your time
and your travel and that's all I mean.

362
00:34:01,839 --> 00:34:05,359
If you didn't have a passion for
it, you wouldn't be doing that,

363
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,079
right, it's a passion. It's
a passion because I have to work,

364
00:34:07,679 --> 00:34:12,280
and the first I have to work. Second, free time, when

365
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,400
I have free time with my family. Right, you have a family,

366
00:34:15,519 --> 00:34:20,159
my family, a wife, a
boy and a girl. Yeah, and

367
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:25,000
then I have time for me.
Yes, that's apology, that's apology.

368
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:30,760
Watch soccer game, yeah for ninety
minutes and then back to apology. But

369
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:36,199
I have all my attentions for my
my my work of course most part of

370
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,280
my day, and my family.
Sure yeah, and the fology comes in

371
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:44,199
third. Yeah, but I love
it's a passion. Yeah, so I

372
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,360
started to balance at all. But
I said, but I said my wife

373
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:51,920
when I get retired. Yeah,
I spend most fifty percent of my time

374
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:58,440
with my family, the other fifty
chasing aliens. Yeah. So I'm lucky

375
00:34:58,519 --> 00:35:00,719
that I can do this type of
thing like come out here myself and I

376
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:05,719
would call myself semi retired. So
I'm putting a lot more effort and it's

377
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:10,760
a lot more fun. And I
have a wonderful producer, Donna, and

378
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:15,239
and girlfriend, so that makes it
really a lot of fun. We have

379
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,559
the same interests as very nice,
my my my, My wife supports me

380
00:35:19,599 --> 00:35:22,440
a lot. That's wonderful. But
he did you like it? Not like

381
00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:27,159
it? Yeah? No interest?
Yes, yes, she love it when

382
00:35:27,159 --> 00:35:30,119
I when I when I travel,
and I do my my state, my

383
00:35:30,679 --> 00:35:37,480
participation in Congress, supposing, but
it's not their thing, every thing.

384
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,840
I totally get that. One last, one, last question. We're talking

385
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:51,920
about the Varsinia case, and do
you believe that craft was recovered by the

386
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:57,199
your military your military and if so
or do you have any thoughts. I

387
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:01,639
know it's speculation, but do you
have any thoughts aware that debris or whatever

388
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:08,280
was left to whatever crashed would be
Now, I think our military took the

389
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:17,199
material, the UFO and it means
a gaze to the USA. I wondered

390
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:22,239
about that. Yeah, and I
think I think James Fox sort of alludes

391
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:30,320
to that. We we have it's
it's a speculation that we have strong evidences

392
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:37,960
that all the all the things,
a version of the beings, the Exeter

393
00:36:37,039 --> 00:36:45,280
rest roles and the shape was sent
to USA. We have information confirmation that

394
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:54,360
the airplane arriving in Campeonish. There's
no sign, there's no US, there's

395
00:36:54,440 --> 00:37:00,199
no NASA, NASA wasn't wasn't compunished. It's a city of the University of

396
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:14,880
Campius where the aliens were brought m
and that are playing uh arrived, the

397
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:21,920
engines start working, they put some
boxes and then Floyd. Yeah, and

398
00:37:22,079 --> 00:37:30,119
some time later we got as a
present the first astronaut with an austronauts in

399
00:37:30,159 --> 00:37:37,840
the space. M hmm. About
that chicket we gave them. They gave

400
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,320
to the state something and they gave
us a chicket to ride in the space.

401
00:37:42,039 --> 00:37:47,360
That's very so. But the press
was very able, very capable to

402
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:57,239
do that. But it was very
close. So coincidence maybe, but you

403
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,320
know, we have that suspicious m
m m. All right, well,

404
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,159
thank you so much. Up in
a real pleasure and really great to meet

405
00:38:04,159 --> 00:38:07,400
you in person. And where can
someone find you? Can someone reach out

406
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:13,559
to you? And I know you're
you're you're getting a lot of people reaching

407
00:38:13,559 --> 00:38:16,039
out to you in Brazil itself.
But if anyone has a quick question for

408
00:38:16,079 --> 00:38:23,920
you or something like you can you
can find me at my social media jints

409
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,639
you right down, Yeah, I'll
have in the show notes yea. And

410
00:38:28,679 --> 00:38:32,280
they can reach me by email,
by Facebook, by Instagram, TikTok everything

411
00:38:32,519 --> 00:38:36,760
I can read me excellent, Thank
you so much, Thank you very much.

412
00:38:36,800 --> 00:39:12,320
All right, all right, back
again with the one and only Mike

413
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,320
Masters. How you doing great,
Martin, It's always great. I don't

414
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:21,679
know if we've ever done this together
in person. Fantastic. No, No,

415
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,280
we met a couple of times.
Yeah, and yeah, that was

416
00:39:24,639 --> 00:39:28,719
I'm trying to remember. I think
it was Phoenix, right, it was

417
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:36,159
International UFO Congress twenteen nineteen. Was
it then right before everything happened? It

418
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,719
was is one of the last things
before everything happened. Yeah, and then

419
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:45,440
everything didn't happen, because that's right
for a while. Yeah. Yeah,

420
00:39:45,559 --> 00:39:50,679
So anyway, this event was you
had a big audience today. I don't

421
00:39:50,679 --> 00:39:54,000
know relative numbers, it was several
hundred. I don't know. I mean

422
00:39:54,039 --> 00:39:59,000
the room was full, so it
looked like it from the stage. People

423
00:39:59,119 --> 00:40:02,280
really interacted and yeah, seemingly engaged. I only saw one person sleeping,

424
00:40:02,559 --> 00:40:09,639
so it's always a good sign.
So I'd like to first reintroduce you.

425
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,159
I know you've been on the show. I don't know three or four times,

426
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:15,719
but there's a lot of new listeners
that I always have to keep that

427
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:22,679
in mind. So who is Michael
Masters? He is an embodied form of

428
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:30,760
the unmanifested realm who's manifested, I
guess by default at that point, no

429
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:37,360
egos, Mike Masters. He's professor
at Montana Tech. It's a science and

430
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:45,719
engineering university in Butte, Montana.
I'm a biological anthropologist to do research and

431
00:40:46,159 --> 00:40:51,320
a lot of different areas, mostly
biomedical research looking at eyes, vision,

432
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,239
things like that. And then yeah, I wrote some books about the UFO

433
00:40:55,320 --> 00:41:01,280
phenomenon, mostly from the standpoint of
whether they could be our future human descendants

434
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:07,639
coming back to study their own past. And yeah, sort of been an

435
00:41:07,639 --> 00:41:14,519
advocate for that model, obviously still
embracing other models and recognizing that that can't

436
00:41:14,519 --> 00:41:17,639
explain everything, but I do think
it helps account for a lot of the

437
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:25,239
weird and even very conventional aspects of
the UFO phenomenon. I don't know if

438
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,880
I've ever asked you this, but
when was the very first time you ever

439
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,400
thought of just popping your head one
day or it did? Yeah, I

440
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:37,000
was eight years old, actually eight
years old. Yeah, I talked about

441
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:38,559
that today in my lecture a little
bit. How it's weird how it was

442
00:41:38,639 --> 00:41:42,079
then. Yeah, it was a
little bit late. You were asleep.

443
00:41:42,119 --> 00:41:47,679
You were the guy that was sleeping. That was me. Sorry, it's

444
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,280
a heart sime my day. You
know, it's getting to be dinner time.

445
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,840
No, I was eight years old, and yeah, what I was

446
00:41:54,880 --> 00:42:00,159
talking about is how it's funny that
correlates with when the Catholic Church starts indoctrinating

447
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:05,360
kids, because well, she shouldn't
use that word, because they think that

448
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,519
that's when logic or the church decided
hundreds of years ago, that's when logic

449
00:42:09,159 --> 00:42:15,000
enters our being and we can decide
for ourselves, and then they indoctrinate children.

450
00:42:15,559 --> 00:42:19,079
So I was eight years old.
I looked up on the living room

451
00:42:19,159 --> 00:42:24,159
shelf so Whitley Streeber's classic book Communion
and had this sort of flash and then

452
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:30,960
pictured an early homin in chimpanzee,
a modern human, and then this alien

453
00:42:30,079 --> 00:42:35,079
form, and yeah, that question
entered my mind. Could they be us

454
00:42:35,119 --> 00:42:39,000
from the future? And it's been
a lifelong pursuit since then. I came

455
00:42:39,039 --> 00:42:46,880
to realize because I've had about four
or five other instances of conscious precognition,

456
00:42:47,079 --> 00:42:51,840
and then I eventually realized that was
one of them. It was a very

457
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:57,199
early the first instance of conscious precognition. I've had had dream precognition my entire

458
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:01,159
life. It's extremely common, but
that that's one of a handful of times

459
00:43:01,159 --> 00:43:07,159
that it's been like while I was
awake and interacting with the material world,

460
00:43:07,199 --> 00:43:15,039
so to speak. To quote Madonna, I guess so basically in a nutshell

461
00:43:15,119 --> 00:43:22,880
for the first time listener of your
theory in your books is basically it's us

462
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:30,320
evolved coming back from the future.
Two examine more or less, well partly,

463
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:36,800
yeah so, and that part makes
sense in relation to what I do

464
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,920
as a biological anthropologist, Like if
I could pick up our past homin and

465
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:45,400
ancestors and study them, I would
do the same thing. Think I've been

466
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,079
on a bunch of digs. I
worked in South Africa two summers, I

467
00:43:47,119 --> 00:43:52,960
worked at a one hundred and fifty
thousand Neanderthal site in southern France for a

468
00:43:52,079 --> 00:43:59,199
season. Tons of Native American sites
at Ohio, Montana, and yes,

469
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:04,440
like you can only get so much
from bones and teeth and artifacts, but

470
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,239
if we could pick them up,
we would do all the same things that

471
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:15,400
people are reported doing or being subjected
to buy these beans in these instances of

472
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,280
abduction. But that's obviously one small
part of it. I think they're also

473
00:44:19,639 --> 00:44:23,760
tourists in some occasions. I also
think they're doing something for themselves, especially

474
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:30,159
with regard to the gammid extraction.
You know, why do they always take

475
00:44:30,199 --> 00:44:35,920
sperm samples for men eggs from women? Like? I don't think it's because

476
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,519
they're doing something to us. I
think they're doing something for themselves, And

477
00:44:39,559 --> 00:44:44,239
I list a number of reasons in
my books, especially the second one,

478
00:44:44,519 --> 00:44:47,519
like current trends. For instance,
there's been a fifty percent reduction and sperm

479
00:44:47,559 --> 00:44:52,639
counts and men over the last forty
years, sixty percent in the Western world,

480
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:57,400
largely because of pollution. They think, you know, in vitro fertilization

481
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:04,440
selects four people who are arguably selected
against or helping people reproduce that in nature

482
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:09,519
wouldn't be able to reproduce. There's
just a lot of reduced fertility, fecundity

483
00:45:09,639 --> 00:45:15,360
things. There could be a bottleneck
in the future if all of these warnings

484
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:20,280
of cataclysm and wars come to pass, like you know, maybe they're trying

485
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:24,440
to get wild type genes from a
time before these this massive bottle on neck

486
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:29,920
happens, you know, And we're
just trending toward being a more homogenized population

487
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,480
in general, because it used to
be separate human populations ud be gene flow

488
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:37,239
amongst them, and now we're all
just becoming one inbred island of Earth.

489
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:42,440
Now I heard I remember reading something, or I do believe I read it

490
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:51,639
that within say the way things are
going in the United States that they eventually

491
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:58,000
it will be brown eye brown here, and you know we're going to evolve

492
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,599
to that. If the trends say
the same, that most of the guys

493
00:46:00,599 --> 00:46:05,239
would be like the overpowering. Yeah. I mean, if you do average

494
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:09,159
out all of the different skin tones
and eye colors and hair colors, it's

495
00:46:09,159 --> 00:46:13,400
a brownish color, you know.
So then the question becomes, if they

496
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,840
are descends white gray, why a
lack of pigmentation, and this is an

497
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:23,519
interesting aspect of a recent human evolution. Actually about last twelve to possibly thirty

498
00:46:23,559 --> 00:46:29,960
thousand years, we have been domesticating
ourselves and with that comes more pro social

499
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,920
behaviors and a really interesting aspect.
And I go into like the genetics of

500
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,840
this in my second book, is
that across the board, whenever there's a

501
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,559
domestication happening with animals, and we've
domesticated a lot of animals, we see

502
00:46:40,559 --> 00:46:45,239
it in them. One of the
first studies with boxes, but we see

503
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:50,800
the same thing in ourselves is that
you have more dostile behaviors, you know,

504
00:46:51,599 --> 00:46:54,239
growls turned to barks, tales go
from up to down, and we

505
00:46:54,320 --> 00:47:00,719
do the same thing. We are
selected behavioral characteristics that are more pro social

506
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:05,480
where we interact with each other,
we form union's collaborations as opposed to just

507
00:47:05,639 --> 00:47:09,199
killing each other. Those are selected
for. But another one is depigmentation,

508
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,599
because yeah, you average everybody out, we're going to be kind of a

509
00:47:13,639 --> 00:47:19,199
brownish color. But then also if
these trends toward a feminization of our cranial

510
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,119
facial form is the other one.
If these trends that occur in association with

511
00:47:22,159 --> 00:47:28,000
self domestication persist. That might help
explain why the gray color comes about,

512
00:47:28,119 --> 00:47:34,239
because we just lack of pigmentation,
is domesticated entities interesting, well, a

513
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:38,159
lot of things. I could consider
this, just like you know, if

514
00:47:38,159 --> 00:47:43,679
you bring it down to the basics, the urge to mate, and you

515
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,639
know, a strong urge it is, Yeah, it is. But also

516
00:47:47,119 --> 00:47:52,800
it has a lot to do with
being attractive to each other. It always

517
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,320
seems like, you know, when
I look at these old paintings, you

518
00:47:55,360 --> 00:48:00,360
know, from four hundred years ago
or whatever. You know, the people

519
00:48:00,559 --> 00:48:07,039
there is very rare that was an
attractive person, but attractive gravitates too attractive,

520
00:48:07,119 --> 00:48:10,639
and the mating and all that,
and an attractive changes over time too,

521
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,760
that's true. But in California,
you know there's the beautiful people and

522
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:16,280
all that. You know. I
mean, But what I'm getting at is

523
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:22,440
when you think about the grays,
they're all very uniform. Yeah, I

524
00:48:22,519 --> 00:48:27,719
think there's a couple of things behind
that I've come to believe in Many others

525
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,440
have argued before this is an original
material, that the gray is some of

526
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:40,599
them, at least maybe some kind
of biologically engineered automatons like a drone,

527
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,639
A drone walking like drone. But
I think at some point, like we're

528
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:46,280
right now, we're working in robotics
like I robot and all of those.

529
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:52,559
We're making humanoid things largely for the
sex industry because that's you know, the

530
00:48:52,599 --> 00:48:57,360
cash cow, like how the Internet
worked because of porn, you know,

531
00:48:57,519 --> 00:49:00,679
like that's what makes money. People
find ways to do it. So I

532
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:09,320
think there's gonna be like sex robot
driven, very human looking and acting robots.

533
00:49:09,559 --> 00:49:14,599
But then eventually we're going to realize
it's way easier to do that by

534
00:49:14,599 --> 00:49:19,599
just manipulating the human genome, you
know. So, and then there's the

535
00:49:19,679 --> 00:49:25,920
question of consciousness. Is consciousness imbued
in this thing that you created with your

536
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:30,400
knowledge of genetics that you grow from
an entity? Does consciousness enter that in

537
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:35,639
the way it enters us when your
pineal gland turns on or at Earth or

538
00:49:35,679 --> 00:49:39,719
whatever, or at the first heartbeat
if you're catching so, is that thing

539
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:45,519
that we're seeing some sort of biologically
engineered droid? And it would make sense

540
00:49:45,559 --> 00:49:50,639
if you're sending things back through time
or even interstellar you know you're not going

541
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:54,360
to initially send people and maybe the
ones that crash are a biased sample of

542
00:49:54,400 --> 00:50:00,880
those that are experimental, they're early
stage. We're sending this prepro Graham droid

543
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,159
to do these things, so they're
not human, but they're developed from human

544
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:08,760
DNA for this purpose, you know. And I don't necessarily believe that or

545
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:15,400
but it does make sense in the
context of a the dangers of time travel

546
00:50:15,199 --> 00:50:20,960
be all the weird shit that's been
talked about, Biola rush and stuff with

547
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:25,000
the biologics, Like you're saying they're
not human. So if they're manufactured,

548
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:30,440
if they're biological drones, that are
that have human DNA? You know,

549
00:50:30,519 --> 00:50:34,079
John ra Mirriz talks about this all
the time that that's the real secret is

550
00:50:34,119 --> 00:50:37,880
that these have human DNA. But
if they're manufactured, you still have to

551
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:42,800
ask the question who made them?
And if they have human DNA, we're

552
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:47,480
using our own DNA to make these
more advanced robots where all the moving parts

553
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,400
are stupid. You know, we
get to the point where we're like,

554
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,079
well we can do that just by
making something from us that does this thing.

555
00:50:54,199 --> 00:50:58,760
Then yeah, I think that could
help explain some of those characteristics too.

556
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,480
And we make robots in our own
image, you would expect them to

557
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:04,079
make them in their image, so
maybe they look like them, I see,

558
00:51:04,119 --> 00:51:06,960
but they perform a task, you
know, yeah, yeah, and

559
00:51:07,039 --> 00:51:09,119
they have all everything they need a
lot of times here, you know,

560
00:51:09,199 --> 00:51:15,559
there's no visible nose, maybe maybe
nostrils, there's you know, a mouth

561
00:51:15,679 --> 00:51:17,960
slit. Yeah, because they still
have to breathe, they still need oxygen

562
00:51:19,079 --> 00:51:23,639
for fuel, they still need pancakes, I guess for energy. Do they

563
00:51:23,639 --> 00:51:27,400
eat as much? You know,
are they getting given food some other way

564
00:51:27,519 --> 00:51:30,880
or But at the same time,
those those traits do mimic what we would

565
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:36,440
expect to see in the human future. So if they are droids, I

566
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,719
still think they're made by humans.
But I just I'm not willing to say

567
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:45,360
that all of these things recovered are
humans. I think we will probably outsource

568
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,679
that. And then you have like
Whitley Streeber talking about the little gray that

569
00:51:49,119 --> 00:51:51,639
took him. He kind of thought
it was robotic, you know, the

570
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:57,599
ones that took Charles Hixon or Charles
Yeah, I was getting Charles Hixon and

571
00:51:57,639 --> 00:52:00,679
Calvin Parker was an actual robot,
know that. Yeah, that was a

572
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:05,599
freaking robot and they said that too. But then yeah, with the you

573
00:52:05,599 --> 00:52:09,360
know, weird and ten of things
and the other elephant skin. But then

574
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:15,639
there are seemingly ones that are humanoid. But I think we need to extend

575
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:20,159
the categories. You know, it's
not just human tall gray, short gray

576
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:24,840
hybrid. But then I think there
might actually be like some not necessarily robotic,

577
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:30,199
Like that's the closest thing we can
that we have that we can sort

578
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,679
of put in that frame of reference. But yeah, I think there may

579
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:40,119
be biologically manipulated. I don't know, it's just I'm honestly trying to evolve

580
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,840
my knowledge of what's going on here. And this is sort of a recent

581
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,840
thing, but just everything that's coming
out, I'm trying to figure out how

582
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,880
it fits. And that just seems
to make the most sense that we'd eventually

583
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:58,480
move past moving parts that he lubricated
and yeah, and just start using genetics.

584
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:04,239
Yeah, and when will that become
morally Okay, it's gonna be tomorrow.

585
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:09,000
I'm thirty seven. I don't know. See, that's the thing,

586
00:53:09,039 --> 00:53:14,079
because it really does hinge on the
consciousness question. Yeah, if we're making

587
00:53:14,199 --> 00:53:20,239
something that doesn't feel it's just a
worker, stems tell researchers getting you know,

588
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,800
i mean gets axed because of the
you know, the more morals that

589
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:29,480
people think, you know, a
lot of a lot of things have I

590
00:53:29,519 --> 00:53:31,360
mean, it would be quite a
push, But I mean we're talking who

591
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:35,360
knows what's going to happen in the
future and how people will think. You

592
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:39,360
know, we always project our now, thinking on the past and on the

593
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:44,079
future. Yeah, and you know, a circle back. Even though I

594
00:53:44,079 --> 00:53:49,519
hate that expression, I was talking
about some of the problems that we're already

595
00:53:49,519 --> 00:53:53,199
having with the kund of the infertility
and the reasons behind it. It's very

596
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:58,639
possible that that drive to find,
you know, designer babies or to cure

597
00:53:58,679 --> 00:54:04,320
illness will cause us to use crisper, some newer technology that will probably come

598
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:08,920
after that, to manipulate our genome. If we modify something that becomes heritable,

599
00:54:09,519 --> 00:54:12,840
where it ends up in our sperm
and egg and gets passed on,

600
00:54:13,679 --> 00:54:20,440
we could potentially create a serious problem
for the human future. So maybe to

601
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,239
mitigate that, they come back and
get jeans from before they did that.

602
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:27,039
Yeah, you know, so,
I don't know. Maybe it's all related,

603
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:31,639
and then I'm creating these little time
travel droids to take the fall Roswell

604
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:36,199
they screw something up with our tyre. Youome, I don't know. One

605
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:38,239
of the things I heard you say
tonight at the talcas. You know,

606
00:54:38,639 --> 00:54:43,159
you could be cherry picking these things, but you try to look at all

607
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:47,159
sides of it. Yeah, which
I appreciate, you know, research like

608
00:54:47,199 --> 00:54:51,079
that. So well, it is
real quick. It's a fine line because

609
00:54:51,159 --> 00:54:53,800
I'm trying to make a case for
this theory. Yeah. Well, also

610
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:59,880
plain Devil's advocate, you know,
bringing in these other cases that don't fit.

611
00:55:00,639 --> 00:55:01,840
But I have to choose those two. And that's the problem. You

612
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:07,039
know. I would love to work
with the sample of ten thousand UFO cases

613
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:12,440
and just study that, you know, but to make this case, I

614
00:55:12,559 --> 00:55:16,440
have to select some and yeah,
I try to acknowledge any potential biases and

615
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:22,360
and be be fastidious and picking us
from different time periods. My second book,

616
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,800
it's ninety three years and five continents, you know, to get the

617
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:30,719
temporal and the spatchel and pulling ones
like I said tonight with Betty Hill,

618
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:35,599
you know, the bastion of the
et hypothesis because of the star map.

619
00:55:35,679 --> 00:55:38,800
But regardless, in doing this,
there's always going to be selection bias.

620
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:43,360
There's no way around them. Yeah, but admitting it I think is important

621
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,599
too, right. Yeah, Yeah, Now, my friend marketing Antonio,

622
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:51,440
I'm sure you know Mark. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he has.

623
00:55:52,039 --> 00:55:53,840
One of the times I was speaking
with him, I don't know, own

624
00:55:53,840 --> 00:56:00,840
a restaurant or whatever. He talked
about that he thought the dinosaurs were developing

625
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:05,079
a larger and larger brain, you
know, before they became extinct with that

626
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:09,320
extinction event. So this is just
an opinion. I'm going to ask you

627
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:15,760
what do you think would be if
the dinosaurs were never wiped out? A?

628
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:21,719
Do you think we would be here? And do you think that they

629
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:27,639
would have developed an intelligence if their
brains kept developing? A? No,

630
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:32,920
B. Yes, because I've seen
your astic park and those velociraptors are smartest

631
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:42,719
ship. But no, so we
wouldn't be here because what happened is that

632
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:47,119
there was an adaptive radiation that happened
when dinosaurs daytime dinosaurs that didn't flyer someone

633
00:56:49,039 --> 00:56:53,519
we're not eradicated, but limited significantly. And so what that did is it

634
00:56:53,519 --> 00:56:59,840
allowed us homeothermic mammals that were only
active at night to come out during the

635
00:57:00,079 --> 00:57:04,559
day. And then we went everywhere, and our ancestors went up in the

636
00:57:04,599 --> 00:57:08,079
trees about sixty five million years ago, and then we came down from the

637
00:57:08,079 --> 00:57:13,800
trees about sixty eight million years ago. But If that hadn't happened, our

638
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,800
early a million ancestors couldn't have come
out during the day. It would have

639
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:21,360
stayed underground. They wouldn't have gone
in the trees, gotten steroscopic vision,

640
00:57:21,519 --> 00:57:25,679
grasping fingers, all of these unique
primate characteristics, and if we hadn't come

641
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:30,199
down from the trees, we wouldn't
be humans. Yeah, so yeah,

642
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:34,239
that definitely had to happen. B
was what was it? Like? Question?

643
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:37,559
Yeah, dude, what would happen
if would they have developed the intelligence?

644
00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:42,559
Yeah? What would happen if dinosaurs
were here today with all these you

645
00:57:42,559 --> 00:57:45,519
know, millions of years who think
could be smart enough to maybe? But

646
00:57:45,599 --> 00:57:50,239
they had a stupid little alarms?
Yeah, the alarms, Like what do

647
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:52,840
you do with those? Yeah,
you could get one those stand up desks,

648
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,920
you know, or you type like
this, but you're not gonna like

649
00:57:57,519 --> 00:58:00,760
make fire with flint. You probably
couldn't even touch hands to get But no,

650
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,360
our hands are a big part of
that. Like we're the only primate

651
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:07,400
that can touch our pinkie. Ask
a chimpanzee you do that, you know,

652
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:12,599
don't flip them off and say yeah, yeah, but these hands are

653
00:58:12,719 --> 00:58:16,480
brains standing up grade. There's so
many things, unique things about humans that

654
00:58:16,559 --> 00:58:20,679
went into why we can sit here
and talk about this, you know,

655
00:58:20,719 --> 00:58:25,000
and and they can't screw them for
them. Yeah. Yeah. So another

656
00:58:25,039 --> 00:58:30,840
thing I thought of when you were
talking today and you made a good point.

657
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:37,599
You said that if we were to
uh like go back in like a

658
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:43,039
species supposed to go back in time, and we were from Cincinnati, we

659
00:58:43,039 --> 00:58:45,840
wouldn't go to Dubai. I think
you said something along those lines, something

660
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:51,280
like that. But there is a
there is a reason I'm saying you did

661
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,000
say something like that. Yeah,
you kind of watched it there. Though

662
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:57,159
I'm not calling you out. I'm
just saying that that is an important part

663
00:58:57,199 --> 00:59:00,800
of the argument. Is what I
was saying is that with temporal I think

664
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:04,760
one of the reasons why we see
humans more often, and this was shown

665
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,159
by the doctor at grad Mitchell's study, is that the most commonly described form

666
00:59:07,159 --> 00:59:13,039
as human just because so I equated
that to geographic proximity, where you see

667
00:59:13,039 --> 00:59:16,559
people in Cincinnati more often because if
you live here, that's where you interact

668
00:59:16,599 --> 00:59:20,719
with like you could travel they could
travel here, but you see them less

669
00:59:20,719 --> 00:59:24,039
often because they're farther away in space. So I think that's why we see

670
00:59:24,039 --> 00:59:30,320
the reptilian's last, the mantis like
humans last, the tall grays less,

671
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:32,840
because they're so far away from us
in time that we're a tiny blip on

672
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:37,800
the radar, Like they could travel
by any of these very different periods,

673
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:39,639
like the same way that people could
travel across space. It was just a

674
00:59:39,679 --> 00:59:43,719
metaphor. It was too far back
in the room, I can I should

675
00:59:43,719 --> 00:59:47,280
have talked aloud. That's my fault
up. Well, my point was getting

676
00:59:47,599 --> 00:59:52,679
back to this. It may it
may not even be related now, but

677
00:59:52,480 --> 01:00:00,880
I was trying to make this question
fit using that because I'm always puzzled why

678
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:07,760
there's the same craft scene in the
same location, like five nights in her

679
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:10,800
row instead of if they got here
from wherever they came from, why don't

680
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:15,840
they explore other parts of the world
whatever, And they're like, I was

681
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:20,639
just thinking of Leaspiegel's Lumberton, North
Carolina. He went down there because of

682
01:00:20,639 --> 01:00:25,559
the Yes, Lee Spiegel, he
went down there because they were seeing the

683
01:00:25,559 --> 01:00:30,679
police kept seeing this over and over
again, you know, night after night,

684
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:35,840
and that's where I went down there
and saw for himself. Now,

685
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:37,480
I mean, that's always puzzling to
me. Why they show up in the

686
01:00:37,519 --> 01:00:44,960
same place repeatedly, the Belgian Triangle
UFO. Well, I mean, this

687
01:00:45,039 --> 01:00:50,599
is just one case study, but
I think it is telling because I talked

688
01:00:50,639 --> 01:00:54,039
about the Mike and Leo Dorschat case
from the I think nineteen thirty three,

689
01:00:55,000 --> 01:01:00,639
it's first case study highlight in my
second book. And they asked him that

690
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:02,079
like, why do you keep coming
back here? Because little brother Mike,

691
01:01:02,119 --> 01:01:05,639
who eventually died in the Korean War, asked him why do you keep coming

692
01:01:05,679 --> 01:01:07,960
back here? And I showed this
quote and it's entirety because I think it's

693
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:15,360
revealing is that they said, we
keep coming back to this place to monitor

694
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:22,559
the environment as the environment gets deeper
into trouble throughout the future, which and

695
01:01:22,559 --> 01:01:24,719
they were collecting grasshoppers. That was
the main way that they were getting that

696
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:32,000
environmental ecological data. And it's interesting
because two things. It shows concern for

697
01:01:32,039 --> 01:01:36,039
the environment again which is a big
part of my talk, which their intent,

698
01:01:36,159 --> 01:01:39,599
their origins and intent, which I
think helps address the friend or folk

699
01:01:39,719 --> 01:01:45,920
question. But then also it shows
future knowledge. They said they didn't say

700
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:51,119
in case your world gets deeper into
trouble, They said, as your world

701
01:01:51,559 --> 01:01:57,320
gets deeper into trouble, as your
environment gets deeper into trouble. So I

702
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:00,639
think that unto itself is revealing too. It's obviously not the case for all

703
01:02:00,639 --> 01:02:04,559
of them. There's probably many,
many different reasons that they're coming back to

704
01:02:04,599 --> 01:02:07,239
the same place or the same region. Maybe has something to do with,

705
01:02:09,119 --> 01:02:14,239
you know, like electromagnetism too.
Steve Murrett talks about that there's certain places

706
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:20,000
where it's more conducive to entering and
exiting these areas, you know. Another

707
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:23,960
quote from that same interview I highlighted
part of his interview, but another thing

708
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:29,360
he says later, It's like,
if they're interstellar, we would see them

709
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,840
coming and going all the time.
There's like tens of thousands of UFO reports

710
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:37,800
every year, but they materialize and
de materialize. If they're coming in from

711
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:42,719
different star systems, we would see
highways, you know, we would catch

712
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:45,320
them going by the Moon all the
time, and catch them going by the

713
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:47,840
Iss and we'd see them coming and
going. But they don't. They pop

714
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:52,159
in and out of our existence.
And that seems to indicate time travel.

715
01:02:52,199 --> 01:02:57,960
If you have something materialized and your
three dimensions of space, it indicates that

716
01:02:58,039 --> 01:03:00,599
it moved through the only other dimension
know of a time. You know,

717
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:05,599
you take a baby. I talk
about this is a weird analogy in my

718
01:03:05,639 --> 01:03:08,320
first book, a baby that doesn't
have object permanence. You're holding an apple

719
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:14,199
in front of it, turns it
said move the apple disappeared, you know.

720
01:03:14,639 --> 01:03:17,920
But that's in space and time.
We're taking apples and moving them through

721
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:23,039
that fourth dimension into other people's perceptions. You know, maybe the same craft

722
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:30,280
that's seen by you know, Joe
Schmo and Kentucky is the exact same craft

723
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:37,239
that Ezekiel saw or Homo erectus.
You know. I don't know if they

724
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:38,760
go back that far, but it
could be the exact same craft. It's

725
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:44,079
just popping in and out of these
different temporal reference rames. That's really interesting.

726
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:46,599
One of the things that it's sort
of a paradox if you think about

727
01:03:46,639 --> 01:03:52,559
it. If they come back in
time and they tell basically take care of

728
01:03:52,599 --> 01:03:55,719
the environment, and you hear that
message a lot, but they're already from

729
01:03:55,760 --> 01:04:00,480
the future, so they already did. That's the paradix. Yeah. I

730
01:04:00,559 --> 01:04:05,519
met this guy right after my talk
and we got into that. And because

731
01:04:05,599 --> 01:04:11,280
because I've thought about that a lot
too, it's like, are they warning

732
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:14,599
us about something? And I go
into this in depth in my second book,

733
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:19,519
because like the nuke thing as an
example, you know, are they

734
01:04:19,559 --> 01:04:25,000
warning us that this is going to
happen and we those that pay attention prepare

735
01:04:25,039 --> 01:04:28,880
themselves, or are they trying to
avert it? And in the block universe

736
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:32,480
model where everything self consistent, you
don't change anything. So did they always

737
01:04:32,519 --> 01:04:35,760
come back and give us these warnings? So we talk about it and we

738
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:41,519
don't do it because we see that's
negative. But it didn't change anything.

739
01:04:41,559 --> 01:04:44,639
They're just always coming back and giving
us these warnings. What doesn't happen,

740
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:46,800
never happens, but they still give
us the warning because they know that's the

741
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:53,800
thing that prevented it. Or many
world's interpretation of quantum mechanics, you could

742
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:57,719
have change, You could have them
coming back because in their timeline there was

743
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:02,639
a war. They're trying to avoid
that. They come back say don't do

744
01:05:02,679 --> 01:05:06,719
this, We don't do it.
There's a separate timeline where it didn't happen.

745
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:14,679
But then there's paradox because you interjected
change. Yeah, and so if

746
01:05:14,719 --> 01:05:16,639
it never happened, how do they
know to come back and tell us not

747
01:05:16,679 --> 01:05:19,360
to do it. Well, there's
the other timeline where they did because it

748
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:24,000
did happen that timeline, but this
timeline where it didn't. Do they just

749
01:05:24,039 --> 01:05:27,519
hop over that timeline now and they're
like, oh sweet, you know there's

750
01:05:27,519 --> 01:05:30,960
no nukes here, But do they
exist in that timeline? Do they have

751
01:05:30,039 --> 01:05:35,199
family or friends? Because everything's different, you know. So really the only

752
01:05:35,239 --> 01:05:41,239
thing that matters as far as paradox
is if there can be change, but

753
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:44,960
if there's not, and that is
the conventional model among physicists and philosophers is

754
01:05:45,039 --> 01:05:49,199
that there's no change in the block
universe. So in my mind it becomes

755
01:05:49,199 --> 01:05:57,000
a warning unless you know, we
don't do it because of them, which

756
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:04,199
still isn't the change is just self
consistent. Don't nink yourselves. A friend

757
01:06:04,239 --> 01:06:08,840
of mind someone I'm sure you know, but I'd rather leave their name out

758
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:15,800
of it. Because they were doing
work in Hollywood on a documentary they had

759
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:21,239
to do with mass extinction events,
and he contacted separate scientists that study that

760
01:06:21,679 --> 01:06:25,000
I don't know what they're called,
I don't know what their titles are,

761
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:30,280
but he said, where do you
think humans will be in a hundred years,

762
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:35,239
And like most of them said,
we don't think that there's going to

763
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:39,159
be humans in a hundred years.
There's going to be humans. Come on,

764
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:42,880
Yeah, Dick Cheney's got like a
hundred bunkers all over the world.

765
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:46,119
Man, some people will survived.
Even if there's a cateaglysm you know,

766
01:06:46,199 --> 01:06:53,159
even if there's like asteroid nuclear war, people will survive. Well, you

767
01:06:53,199 --> 01:06:56,320
know, here's the question. Since
we're on this topic, and I and

768
01:06:56,719 --> 01:07:00,079
I hope you answered that enough for
did you have more to say? I

769
01:07:00,119 --> 01:07:03,000
was going to plug my third book. All right, go ahead, and

770
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,519
just that's what my third books about, is it? Really? Yeah?

771
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:11,960
All right, it's about that that
whole question of kind of the last two

772
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:17,480
questions or in timelines, and the
fact that four future humans to exist,

773
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:26,000
we don't need everybody to survive.
It could be seven people and they still

774
01:07:26,039 --> 01:07:30,679
exist. So that brings me to
the question that I've wanted to ask someone

775
01:07:30,719 --> 01:07:38,199
like you. I can't imagine how
humans made it through ice ages? How

776
01:07:38,239 --> 01:07:43,039
did they make it through ice ages? We killed fuzzy warm animals and took

777
01:07:43,079 --> 01:07:47,000
their skin. And fire we invented
fire. We invent fire. Fires existed

778
01:07:47,079 --> 01:07:53,159
since the sun. I started to
try and go back in my mind,

779
01:07:53,199 --> 01:07:56,159
and I was like, yeah,
I started with the sun. Actually,

780
01:07:56,760 --> 01:08:00,679
probably earlier sons than that maybe even
the bang had some fire involved. I

781
01:08:00,719 --> 01:08:08,119
don't know, but no, when
we harness the power of fire. There's

782
01:08:08,119 --> 01:08:15,039
an interesting correlation actually between when we
first started making fire Tomo erectus about one

783
01:08:15,079 --> 01:08:19,920
point eight million years ago, and
when we started napping stone tools, because

784
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:24,439
what happens when you strike flint against
flint, it makes a spark. We

785
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:29,720
lived in a pretty dry area of
East Africa. It's very likely that we're

786
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:32,800
napping stone tools and fire formed under
your feet, and you're like, oh

787
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:36,000
my god, there's a god in
these rocks, you know, But no,

788
01:08:36,119 --> 01:08:40,600
it's just what happens. And then
they a lot of stuff happened,

789
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:48,680
the language and grouping people around fire. But no, I think I think

790
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:51,680
I forgot what we were talking about. Well, it usually doesn't happen.

791
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:56,680
How the heck I did? Yeah, how the heck did they survive during

792
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:59,039
the Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
fire fire, fire, so you could

793
01:08:59,039 --> 01:09:00,800
stay warm with fire. Once we
control it, we can make it anywhere.

794
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:06,359
Yeah, but what about sustenance plants? Things like animals were hunting giant

795
01:09:06,399 --> 01:09:12,800
ass animals, mammoth five weeks?
You know, where did they survive on

796
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:15,960
when they? I mean, did
everything migrate to the warmer areas. It's

797
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:19,880
a crazy thing to me. I
got this moose that lives in my yard,

798
01:09:20,359 --> 01:09:23,800
well it lives in our canon.
It comes in my yard a lot.

799
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:28,439
I spent a whole week in a
fenced in area of my yard just

800
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:32,800
eating the ship out of my trees. And I'm like, bro, I

801
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:36,800
like those trees, you know,
But also you were here first, so

802
01:09:38,239 --> 01:09:40,600
have at it cool. You know
when I go out there and it's just

803
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:45,159
like a nub, Like this giant
aspen is just a numb. They don't

804
01:09:45,199 --> 01:09:47,680
necessarily just eat things that grow on
the ground. And maybe mammoths too.

805
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:50,159
They have those big giant teeth,
just like a moose, you know,

806
01:09:50,239 --> 01:09:55,720
so maybe they're eating tree tree branches
to it. It eats the willows and

807
01:09:55,800 --> 01:10:00,840
the aspens in the winter, and
then it just mows down on on grass

808
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:02,600
throughout the summer. And the elk
do too. But they would have to

809
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:06,039
go away from you know, you're
talking about the glaciers being two miles high.

810
01:10:06,399 --> 01:10:10,279
They have to be the only thing
that would survive would be in their

811
01:10:10,279 --> 01:10:15,159
temperate areas, I would imagine,
or well, yeah, but we didn't

812
01:10:15,159 --> 01:10:18,439
live on top of the glaciers either, you know. It ain't you ever

813
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:25,039
seen the Mother of Dragons show?
Is it called Game of Thrones? Oh?

814
01:10:25,159 --> 01:10:27,520
Yes, you know the big wall
like the King of the North.

815
01:10:28,079 --> 01:10:31,520
They aren't living on top of that
wall, they're living underneath it, you

816
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:36,000
know. And nobody, nobody could
live on that Animals didn't either, and

817
01:10:36,039 --> 01:10:41,640
that's why. But you have to
remember time again, that wall moved north

818
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:47,600
and south seasonally and also geologic time. So and it's quite has read of

819
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:54,079
this paper recently about how there's congregations. I think it was in France around

820
01:10:54,079 --> 01:10:57,680
the door down River Valley, one
of my favorite places. Just got to

821
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:02,479
visit there recently went to Lasco Cave
floated the door, done on a canoe

822
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:06,760
one day. It's a major theme
in my last book too. Went there

823
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:13,399
to do the research to write this
book. Actually. But so as that

824
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:16,840
wall of ice came down, you
know, it forced people together or to

825
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:23,920
occupy these areas that were lush because
the animals were concentrated to you know.

826
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:29,720
So it's like it it almost like
there's a lot of games my kids play,

827
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:32,680
these games where there's like a shrinking
world, like like Fortnite for instance.

828
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:35,520
You know, the world shrinking,
so it forces all of the enemy

829
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:40,479
combatants together to where if there's only
a few left, they have to fight

830
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:43,439
each other. They can't just tide
out, you know. And it's almost

831
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:48,600
like the Ice Age did that in
North America too, where it forces you

832
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:51,079
to be here, but then it
opens up, you know, and then

833
01:11:51,279 --> 01:11:55,680
modern humans came in and killed them
all anyway, so it didn't matter and

834
01:11:55,840 --> 01:11:58,760
all the animals. But no,
it's not like we're living on top of

835
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:00,880
the ice. We still had all
the re sources. That ice just forced

836
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:08,840
us and then it all disappeared anyway. So so here's another one question I'd

837
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:15,720
like to ask someone with your knowledge, and it's just speculation on my end

838
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:18,840
totally, but say the Earth is
we know the Earth is over four billion

839
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:27,520
years old, So is it possible
that some type of species existed at some

840
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:31,399
point and there was some type of
event that vulcanized the whole surface and we

841
01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:38,479
lost all of the fossils of that
time period and then it starts up again.

842
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:44,239
No, that's impossible, Okay,
because they found things that are close

843
01:12:44,279 --> 01:12:47,640
to the four billion year old.
We have evidence of life. Yeah,

844
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:53,079
going back to the origins of life
three point eight billion years ago, there's

845
01:12:54,079 --> 01:13:00,840
no place let me put it this
way, there's no way all things could

846
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:04,760
be erased everywhere at the same time. Even if we set off all the

847
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:08,920
nukes, even a fasteroid comes,
I mean, the asteroid it took out

848
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:12,800
the dinosaurs didn't erase all evidence of
dinosaurs, you know, even if there

849
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:15,560
was another one ten years later after
they all died, we still have that

850
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:19,800
it hit the Yokatan area just outside
of Mexico and the Gulf of Mexico.

851
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:27,239
And that adds to our geologic knowledge
because it spreads information all over the planet,

852
01:13:28,319 --> 01:13:30,640
but it's more concentrated than those areas. You know, you get farther

853
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:35,000
away still find evidence. So there's
a layer I forget what it's called,

854
01:13:35,239 --> 01:13:42,600
but we look for it all throughout
Montana because it's this volcanic eruption that just

855
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:45,720
laid down this tiny little layer and
we can see the ash still all over

856
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:50,359
the place. You dig down about
two not even two muks, like a

857
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:56,359
three fourths of a meter depending on
the sedimentation, and you'll find that and

858
01:13:56,439 --> 01:13:59,079
that's like, oh, we know
exactly when that was. So now you

859
01:13:59,199 --> 01:14:00,720
have a time shot there. And
it's the same thing with you know,

860
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:09,119
the volcanoes and East Africa. We
can date the fossils by the potassium forty

861
01:14:09,279 --> 01:14:15,680
potassium argon dating the volcano that laid
down that information. It resets that atomic

862
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:18,279
clock, so you have this layer
above them, below the fossils, and

863
01:14:18,319 --> 01:14:23,159
you can very accurately date those fossils
even though you can't date them themselves with

864
01:14:23,239 --> 01:14:27,880
like carbon fourteen because as a half
life of I think seven thousand years or

865
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:30,000
something, you can only go through
so many half life like six or seven.

866
01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:35,800
But we can use that atomic clock
potassium argon dating thing to date on

867
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:41,840
either side of that. So even
these big massive events help us. They

868
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:45,159
don't hurt us, they don't e
race everything. And yeah, like this,

869
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:48,399
I don't know if this is why
you're asking it, but it's one

870
01:14:48,399 --> 01:14:56,199
of the few theories that is just
dumb, is the breakaway civilization thing.

871
01:14:56,319 --> 01:15:00,680
It's just stupid. There's absolutely no
evidence for it and doesn't make sense.

872
01:15:01,159 --> 01:15:05,720
Well, it's good to ask them. Like another thing that always just a

873
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:10,920
question that would I can't sleep at
night I think about all these weird things.

874
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:15,600
But as the earth think actually growing, we think about sediment and sediment

875
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:19,079
of course a lot of its vegetation
and stuff that dies and you know what

876
01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:24,319
what causes it, but also you
know we're getting you know a little bit

877
01:15:24,359 --> 01:15:28,960
of say, meteor meteorites coming in
and you know, things like that,

878
01:15:29,039 --> 01:15:32,640
just the Earth actually growing mass at
all, or just stay pretty steady.

879
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:40,239
I don't know. Actually, it's
not something I've ever thought about. I

880
01:15:40,239 --> 01:15:45,119
don't even know if I could offer
like a speculative idea. I mean,

881
01:15:45,159 --> 01:15:49,960
that's where oceans came from. I
guess is yeah comment supposedly yeah, supposedly

882
01:15:50,279 --> 01:15:55,560
yeah? Or God turned on a
hoose. Yeah. I'm kind of divided

883
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:59,199
between those two theories at the moment. And when one last question, we're

884
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:05,039
not all over, I didn't turn
on what about people have thought about like

885
01:16:05,159 --> 01:16:10,760
pan spermia sperm like, oh,
the idea that everything seated from different I

886
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:14,840
mean, who cares, honestly,
if there's life anywhere, it could end

887
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:16,479
up other places, you know,
and yeah, it makes sense, like

888
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:26,199
we know our water got here from
comments, right, so we know that

889
01:16:26,279 --> 01:16:31,479
life started in water? Did life
come from the frozen water? You know?

890
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:36,079
Like tartar grades can survive anything.
You could pack them on top of

891
01:16:36,119 --> 01:16:41,720
your marijuana pipe and smoke them and
they'd still be in your lungs. And

892
01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:44,640
then you die and then crawl out
like sweet, that was a fun ride.

893
01:16:45,199 --> 01:16:49,000
Like things just some life forms can
survive for a long time. But

894
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:53,680
but who cares, Like, who
cares where life came from? Whether it

895
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:56,560
was here somewhere else. I don't
think it. I guess. I guess

896
01:16:56,840 --> 01:17:00,880
the reason that comes up is because
of extra trust you real life, right,

897
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:02,720
Like, that's why people care about
that. So if there's life on

898
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:06,479
comments, I wonder if there were
that, if people were seated, that's

899
01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:11,199
a thinking here a lot. I
mean maybe an interesting thing to me is

900
01:17:11,279 --> 01:17:14,920
that the Earth is about four point
five billion years old. It was all

901
01:17:15,039 --> 01:17:18,159
volcanoes and crazy. It's just like
a bubbling mass. And then once we

902
01:17:18,199 --> 01:17:24,039
had an atmosphere in liquid water,
almost instantly of life. Yeah, did

903
01:17:24,039 --> 01:17:28,479
that life right here on a comment
from somewhere else? Did it just come

904
01:17:28,520 --> 01:17:32,600
about through the process of entropy?
And I mean we're in tropy reducers.

905
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:36,039
You know, sunlight, had sunlight, water, heat, you have all

906
01:17:36,119 --> 01:17:41,720
of those in this early Earth environment. And so I always take that to

907
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:45,000
mean that if there's life here and
it happened that soon after this planet was

908
01:17:45,039 --> 01:17:49,079
habitable, it's probably everywhere. I
would think so. But it's probably not

909
01:17:49,199 --> 01:17:55,520
an upright walking hominin like us,
because we have a very specific like we

910
01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:58,279
were talking about earlier. If the
dinosaurs hadn't died, we wouldn't be here,

911
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:00,239
Yeah, you know, there'd be
more involve mammals, but they'd still

912
01:18:00,239 --> 01:18:06,720
be underground. So there's all of
these specific events. Dinosaurs diet, and

913
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:13,039
this is just broad snapshots. Dinosaurs
die, mammals come out, aren't supposed

914
01:18:13,039 --> 01:18:15,960
to go in the trees, We
come down from the trees. Even over

915
01:18:15,039 --> 01:18:18,319
that course of time, we didn't
have to be as intelligent as where we

916
01:18:18,359 --> 01:18:24,920
had culture. There's this feedback loop
with culture and our brain development that seems

917
01:18:25,159 --> 01:18:30,520
very very rare that that would ever
happen again the exact same way somewhere else.

918
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:34,960
Yeah, but you have people like
Simon Conway Morris who say this convergent

919
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:40,960
evolution everywhere. I don't think he's
right, but he's smart, and maybe

920
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:44,279
it is. And I say dumb
shit all the time, so maybe I'm

921
01:18:44,319 --> 01:18:46,279
wrong, you know, but it
just doesn't make sense how that would happen

922
01:18:46,319 --> 01:18:49,520
so many times in so many places, And like I said in my talk

923
01:18:49,560 --> 01:18:53,680
today, they would happen at the
same time. The universe is fifteen billion

924
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:57,279
years old. Almost, what are
the odds in that fifteen billion years that

925
01:18:57,319 --> 01:19:00,960
we would line up just like this? Yeah, I find it highly improbable,

926
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:04,720
but it could happen. It's just
it's about numbers for me. Yeah.

927
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:11,680
Okay, So a lot of systems
where there's planets are binary stars for

928
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:16,199
one, there's also everything, there's
all kinds of different gravity. Wouldn't that

929
01:19:16,399 --> 01:19:20,560
all these things affect how we evolve? I think? So, Yeah,

930
01:19:23,319 --> 01:19:27,920
it's something I sort of come back
to a lot. Almost even harp On,

931
01:19:28,239 --> 01:19:32,760
you could say that our bipedalism,
you know, like I said in

932
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:36,159
my talk, like I say in
my books, were the only upright walking

933
01:19:36,239 --> 01:19:44,520
mammal, we're the only habitually upright
walking primate. And on this planet small

934
01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:47,680
planet, as I mentioned, of
between two and four percent of all planets.

935
01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:51,720
Exoplanets have been discovered so far,
which is pretty representative of things in

936
01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:58,359
our Milky Way are the same size
or smaller than Earth. So if it's

937
01:19:58,439 --> 01:20:01,479
this rare on this planet with nine
point meters per square gravity, it's bound

938
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:09,119
to be even rarer on these much
bigger Earth like exoplanets. And we suffer

939
01:20:09,239 --> 01:20:11,439
from all kinds of problems too.
I didn't get the end of this in

940
01:20:11,479 --> 01:20:15,119
my lecture, But yeah, herniated
disks, bad backs, bad knees,

941
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:20,640
varicose veins, hernie us, what
are the butt things? The hemorrhoids.

942
01:20:21,159 --> 01:20:26,920
Hemorrhoids are a result of that.
So yeah, we're not great at it.

943
01:20:27,199 --> 01:20:32,439
But the benefits it conferred outweigh the
negative costs. We call an evolutionary

944
01:20:32,439 --> 01:20:39,279
trade off in biology. So yeah, it seems like based on the exo

945
01:20:39,359 --> 01:20:47,640
planet data from NASA and the exoplanet
study at the University of air Cebo sorry

946
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:54,399
AIRCIBI Laboratory at the University of Puerto
Rico, it's not likely to happen.

947
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:57,720
You know. Again, there could
be convergent evolution. It could happen on

948
01:20:57,720 --> 01:21:00,279
the right planet. But coming back
to what we're talking about earlier, are

949
01:21:00,279 --> 01:21:03,960
they close enough to find us?
Are they close enough to travel here?

950
01:21:04,399 --> 01:21:11,239
Yeah? Would they? You know? And if they did, why not

951
01:21:11,319 --> 01:21:15,119
say hi? Why not just be
like, hey, we looked just like

952
01:21:15,239 --> 01:21:17,640
you. It's crazy and we came
from this planet. What are the odds?

953
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:20,720
You know? But they're they're not
doing that. It's a very different

954
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:25,920
interaction, and I think that interaction, the covert aspects of it, make

955
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:30,359
more sense than the time travel context. Yeah, very good. Well,

956
01:21:30,359 --> 01:21:33,560
thanks so much, Michael. Thank
you, marm Always always a pleasure.

957
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:36,119
Never got to shake your hand after
an interview. That's a fun things,

958
01:21:36,960 --> 01:21:41,800
right, all right, take care. Hey wait, where can someone find

959
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:47,920
Drew and your books and all that
porn hub. I'm gonna keep all this

960
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:56,079
stuff in No, I got I
got a website. Just google it.

961
01:21:56,119 --> 01:21:59,239
I don't know, yah, Google, Michael, I'll put it in the

962
01:21:59,239 --> 01:22:00,760
short. Oh that's even better.
Thank you. Thank you for that,

963
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:03,159
Bet. All right, you take
care of you too, all right,

964
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:08,439
see you next week. We'll be
back with Jonathan Wigan, and thanks so

965
01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:24,800
much for hanging in tonight. Keep
your eyes to the sky.