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Hello, and welcome to Mythic Mind, where pursue wisdom in the past between

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primary and secondary worlds. I'm your
host, Angrew Snyder, and I am

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always grateful for your company. Today
I have a special episode for you.

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I'm starting to record some patron conversations
that will typically go into the Mythic Mind

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Fellowship podcast, and so be sure
to subscribe to that one if you have

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not done so already, But I'm
also putting this first one into this main

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feed as well. This first conversation
did not have a clear agenda going into

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it, but I believe that it
did go in a worthwhile direction. In

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the future, I would love to
set up some topical chats where we have

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some time to really think about and
dig into a certain topic. But also

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I think that there's some value in
having free flowing conversations like this as well.

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And if you'd like to participate in
these, then you can join the

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Fellowship at patreon dot com slash Mythic
Mind. Now, let's go ahead and

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jump into my conversation with Elizabeth Dawson. Go ahead, so, yeah,

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tell me a little bit about what
you're doing. Yeah, So, I'm

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currently pursuing a master's in philosophy,
which is wonderful but lots of hard work.

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But I've got a couple of projects
I'm now on summer break in between.

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One of them is finalizing a syllabus
for an independent study I'm doing next

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fall on human agency, which I'm
really excited about. So I'm chipping away

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on that. But i also want
to kind of dig in the summer to

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connections between philosophy and literature and storytelling. So I've got I'm going to be

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digging into Alistair McIntyre, so Martha
mess Bomb and Eleanor Stump, So okay,

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fantastic. Yeah, that obviously things
that I'm naturally interested in as well.

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So what drew you into philosophy to
begin with? What kind of set

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you on this path? Sort of
just how my mind works? And I

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just took questions about everything, but
I did. I grew up in a

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unique little corner of the world in
New Guinea, where I think here in

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America, science is so ingrained,
and they're so ingrained into our general consciousness

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of like, oh, this is
how the world works, and you know,

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like the reductionist mindset of there's nothing
but material it's just so ingredient everything,

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but there wasn't that much of that
over there in New Guinea and it

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just like, to me, the
world around me just seems so wild and

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kind of unpredictable in like a good
way, you know, that natural almost

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and that's just sense of magic in
it. But I know Aristotle says philosophy

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begins with wonder, and that is
definitely how it began for me, just

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asking questions about what, like what's
really real, you know, and what

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the world is made of and what
we're here for. So and then for

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coming from there to America, I
had a lot more questions just because it

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seemed two very different corners of the
world and two very different societies and to

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live so differently. I think my
journey has been trying to make sense,

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I guess, of all of that
and have experience, and yeah, yeah,

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I think that that has to give
an interesting perspective, having you know,

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serving as a bridge between very different
cultures right to very different parts of

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the world. You know, my
entire life in America. This is what

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I know. But it's kind of
interesting, you know. You bring up

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the fact that you know, America
is really on board with this materialism you

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scientism. You know, everything fits
within this modernist schema. But at the

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same time we want to say,
you know, you can be whatever you

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want to be and sort of create
yourself out of nothing. And so it's

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a kind of magic that operates within
a context that doesn't have room for magic,

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which I think leads all kinds of
contradictions and just difficulties in figuring out

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what's even going on. What do
we actually believe it's so true? One

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thing I mean that Aliston Magendyre points
out is like the Enlightenment project in our

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heritage coming from that actually where you're
living with such a fragmentation of different schools

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of thought. So it's not like
there's not even a cohesive and that you

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know, general American cultural thought.
Isn't it even a cohesive ideology almost anymore.

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It's like often a mixture of conflicting
ones. And most people are just

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okay with that. But I mean
they're okay with that on the surface,

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but I think it, I mean, it necessarily leads to an internal fragmentation

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and just like a restlessness or you
know, discord internally that leaves people compused

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and dissatisfied. Mm. Yeah,
I think that's why it's so important to

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you know, play Socrates, right, you learn how to just ask questions,

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get people, you know, necessarily
to argue with people at times,

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you just get them to recognize the
confusion that they didn't know existed. You

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know, like I teach on campus
at a public university philosophy courses, which

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has all kinds of opportunities for doing
that. You know, first day of

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class, all the students are saying, you know, there's no truth,

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there is no goodness, it's all
just made up. And you know,

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the worst thing that you can do
is is, you know, push your

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beliefs on someone else. That's the
only kind of vice that you could possibly

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have. At the same time,
I ask them how many of them intend

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to vote November, and all of
them raise their hands, and so they

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tell me one hand, you know, you there are new absolutes, and

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so you can't push your beliefs on
anyone else. The same time, they

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plan on casting their vote for an
ideology that they want to impose on their

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neighbors. And so, you know, that's just one example of the fact

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that people are so muddled. What
we have is it's not even just the

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wrong beliefs it's not even consistently wrong
beliefs. And so it's just sometimes before

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you have these conversations that we want
to jump right into, we kind of

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just have to help people recognize where
they are right now, kind of give

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them an argument to adopt mm hmm. To be honest, it's so much

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fun to ask you people questions,
right and like getting them and seeing sometimes

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seeing that light bulb form on.
I've just been like, I want to

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help you be able to express what
you actually believe because I think that because

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then you're you know, I think
you're step closer to but I feel like

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even people aren't really and capable of
that right now. It's you know,

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not I should not to generalize,
but a lot of people wouldn't be able

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to fully express what they believe about
cohesive ideology of the belief So it's just

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it's fun. I think it's really
fun to have these conversations just organically one

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possible. Yeah. Absolutely. And
so you said you're teaching an independent class

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coming up. I'm not teaching it, but I'm doing one of my three

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classes is going to be an independent
study, which I'm thinking about specializing an

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agency. So I'm kinda I'm doing
a directive study to kind of launch myself

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into it and then we'll go from
there. But okay, okay, okay,

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And so you said you want to
focus on agencies that you said,

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mm hmmm, do you have any
any idea as to kind of where you

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want to go with that long term? I'm not entirely sure. I mean,

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what I love about it one thing
is that it ties into so many

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disciplines, you know, because it
has political and psychological implications, and obviously

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in theology there's huge implications. It
kind of bridges a huge gap I think

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between a lot of the disciplines and
philosophy. So and I have interested in

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all of them. Yeah, but
it is something that I mean, I've

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noticed, I've been fascinated with a
long time. Finally was like, I'm

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just going to dive in. Yeah, I don't think that's a bad way

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to go. It's definitely something I've
learned. Just do an interest to you

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and you'll figure things out along the
way. That's definitely what my career has

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been excellent. Yeah. I mean, you know, I've got three degrees

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all in philosophy and theology. I
mean, what do you do with that?

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I guess this. I don't know
you have fun exactly. I mean

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in undergrad I had one semester as
a business major when I didn't really know

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what I was doing. Figured Okay, I'm just gonna do something that's gonna

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lame me a job. But it's
actually my business ethics class, which is

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really my first heavy philosophy class,
that I just suddenly switched gears and recognized

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that this is interesting, right,
thinking about what is the good? Right?

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Why do we do what we do? And so then I just totally

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shifted gears, said all right,
I'll just figure out the money stuff along

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the way. Yeah, things just
kind of work out a yeah, life

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and adventure. Yeah, absolutely.
So is there anything in particular that you've

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read recently and anything that you've had
on your mind? Oh? I did

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just finish Believe Philosophy, which I
know you're doing a class on later.

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I loved it. I had never
read it before, and I was actually

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really I didn't expect it to go
so much into the problem of people,

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but I of that to your fantastic
fantastic So what what what did you like

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about it? I love the allegorical
sort of element, you know, with

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philosophy personified and was thinking, man, it's such a shame we don't see

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stories like that as much anymore.
That's tired, to be honest, of

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like the you know, the kind
of gritty realism that our cultural stortsssed with

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right now. But so that was
fun in the mix of frozen poetry.

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It was fun and it was just
beautifully written. And then I love the

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all the issues that tackled of just
you know, yeah, what is the

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good and what you know, what
is happiness? And and striving for something

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you know, what can't be taken
away from you, you know, because

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yeah, things can be. And
then ending with from evil, which is

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another one of my favorite topics.
So and it touched kind of bit in

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there, you know, about free
will, and that's really fun. So

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it covers so much ground. It
covered a lot of ground, a lot

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of very perennial ground, right The
things that both you're struggling with are the

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same things that we struggle with today. And it's just such a quintessentially medieval

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text, you know, this is
what you know. Lewis said that to

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develop an appreciation for the consolation is
almost to become naturalized in the middle ages

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because in the structure, right,
you've got the poet, the poetry and

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the prose. You've got the beauty
as well as the careful reasoning. You've

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got the constant connection back to classical
philosophy, right, we go back to

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the Stoics on a regular basis,
And so we're going back to the Classics

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but also kind of baptizing them and
bringing them within a specifically Christian context.

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And so there's just so much going
on there, both in structure as well

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as in content. I refer to
the Constellation constantly, especially in my philosophy

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classes. You know, this idea
that we're constantly relating ourselves to present fortunes

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instead of relating ourselves to fortune itself
or or even better yet, providence.

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Right, the things that don't change, as you said, because we can't

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control how the wheel of fortune turns, but we can't control how we relate

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to the wheel of fortune. I
think it's just such an important reminder.

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It's something that even before I decided
to lead the study. I mean,

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I've read The Consolation at least once
a year for the last like five or

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so. I just think it's such
an important reminder to us to not attach

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ourselves to things we've never actually been
attached to a good way of putting it.

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Yeah, yeah, I think it's
going to become from a regular of

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mine. It was fun also to
see kind of some of the traces of

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how it must have influenced Lewis,
you know, because I think it was

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one of his top books, and
to be like, oh, I've been

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enjoyed that a lot recently. The
more I dig into theology and philosophy,

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you start seeing these patterns of thought
or the influence passed down through kind of

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different thinkers and generations of thinkers,
and it's really fun to trace those ideas

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around and see how people picked up
on them and like it advanced them and

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things like that. Yeah, if
you're someone who regularly engages with more contemporary

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literature, by contemporary, I mean
like eighteen hundred to now, so I

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mean by contemporary, Yeah, yeah, you know, you go back and

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read the older stuff and it really
shines new light on the people you already

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know because you're continually getting back to
the roots. That's wonderson why I love

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C. S. Lewis, because
you know, the more that you dig

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into any one of his texts,
the more you find yourself immersed in the

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world of the Middle Ages and the
Renaissance, the more that things continually open

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up. It's kind of like each
of his text is a you know,

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wardrobe and its own right kind of
bringing into this new world as you continue

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to go further up and further in. To continue my h. Lewis references,

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Yeah, I was gonna say,
I don't feel like I feel like

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the Middle Ages and Renaissance like I
know less about, but I feel like

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now I'm more and more drawn to
to study and dig in a bit more

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in that area and more first in
like ancient classical literature and then Enlightenment and

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kind of the modern areas. There's
like the gap, so I want to

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dig more into this. I feel
like, Yeah, like I said,

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I really enjoyed this constellation and recognizing
how much better influenced Lewis and m HM

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inspiring. So yeah, it's just
fine of recommendation, I guess. I

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mean, yeah, And I just
I love reading the pre moderns because they

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are trying to discover and conform themselves
to something that is real, right,

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And I think that there's so much
hope and purpose and meaning in that as

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opposed to well, I kind of
love modernity and postmodernity together because even though

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you know modernity is theoretically looking for
absolute truth and looking for objectivity, I've

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believed they're doing it in a very
unreal kind of way. Like, for

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example, you know, in Descartes, who's usually seen the father of modernity,

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right, he starts to peel away
all his beliefs until he gets to

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the cogito that you know, I
think, therefore I am, And so

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he reduces himself to an abstract thinking
thing, and then from there attempts to

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sort of rebuild his connection to reality. But I think that if you make

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the very foundation of your philosophy,
of your pistemology, if your very foundation

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is yourself, I think in the
end you end up with yourself, right,

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you become the nexus of reality.
And so it's no surprise that postmodernity

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followed modernity. I think it's a
natural outflow of what modernity did. Even

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though they might have different intentions,
I think fundamentally they're doing something very similar.

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Whereas you go to the pre modern
world and they're not beginning with themselves,

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whether we're talking about the ancient Greeks
or the Medievals, they begin with

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the good, they begin with God, they begin with what is real,

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and then they ask how can I
conform myself to what is real? Not

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how can I hinge reality to myself? And that leads to a very different

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course. And so when you read
the Medievals, specifically the medieval Christian philosophers,

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you really get this idea that existence
itself is fundamentally good. And I'm

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somewhere on this spectrum of being,
the spectrum of reality. And if I

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can, you know, really discover
what it is that makes good things good,

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well, then if I can relate
myself to that, then I don't

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need to worry about the moving wheel
of fortune, because goodness always is.

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And if goodness always is, then
so is my good right. This is

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why boetheists. You know, while
he's imprisoned for you know, these trumped

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up false charges. You know,
I don't know if we're shore along the

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way. He knew he was going
to be executed or not, but he

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at least knew that he was in
a bad state. You know, his

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fortunes had been ripped away from him. But even still, despite all of

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his struggles, in the end,
he's able to conclude that goodness is what

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it is. As long as I
relate myself to the good, I have

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nothing to worry about it, no
matter what fortune might spin my way.

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I even think of Socrates in the
Apology, when it's pretty clear that that

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Athens is about to turn on him, and he makes the point that,

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okay, even if you were to
kill me, you can never do harm

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to a good man. The idea
being if you are identifying yourself with goodness,

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well, that can't be taken away
by any external means whatsoever, whether

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it be sickness or murder or whatever. Goodness itself can't be taken away.

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And so there is this absolute hope, there is this meaning. There's this

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idea that there is a real purpose
to your life that you can conform yourself

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to. As opposed to when you
read the postmoderns, who are all about

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not discovering purpose but creating purpose.
Well, at that point, any purpose

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that you create in the end is
going to be an illusion. Right,

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You're standing over a void. I
think nietzschek got that right. It's an

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abyss. It's there's no up,
there's no down. You simply choose a

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direction and go. But in the
end that's not going to satisfy because eventually

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the stone and stops moving and that's
when it sinks. And so yeah,

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and so for the medievals, I
mean, I think Beitheus is a great

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way to start. You know.
I love reading Augustine for very similar reasons.

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You get very similar trajectories of thought
in Augustine as you do in Boethius,

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and so I mean, those are
my top choices, even this little

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mainstream reason. Yeah, exactly,
Yeah, I did just pick up.

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I've been digging a bit, and
I plan to do more. I did

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a Skimm and his on the Trinity, and I tend to do reading because

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it gets I was surprised by as
he gets into like a sistemology and things

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like that too. So I think, though, like what I think though

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a lot of people are recognizing,
you know, some of the emptiness and

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bankruptcy of the kind of external and
like creating your own value, and some

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of the almost utilitarian, calculated ideas
of morality, and like that's why I

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think there's been such a resurgence of
virtue ethics recently with this and like some

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where there's a draw to returning to
even though a lot of them. You

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know, it's a virtual epics that's
tilian and not necessarily theistic, but because

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I think people are recognizing the draw
to having h roots and a good that

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can be unshakable, you know what
I mean, like and having building character

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and returning to a sort of sense
of character. At least I don't know

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how mainstream that is, but I
know in a philosophy with its it's definitely

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how a kind of resurgence, and
hopefully they'll trickle down into the worst popular

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philosophy of popular culture because I think
the conversations worth having, you know about

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re examining and I think any any
you know, reci examination of character and

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a virtue and what the virtues are, I think, you know, they

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do lead back to God. So
that like, these conversations are you know,

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worth pursuing and worth encouraging because I
think it's a good direction to take.

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But yeah, I agree, I
think that the you know, just

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create your own reality philosophy can only
last but for so long because it's so

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artificial, it's so fake, it's
so contrary to just our basic experience of

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life. Like we all know that
there is such a thing as good and

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evil. It doesn't matter what you
say you believe. If you push the

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scenarios far enough, almost everybody's willing
to say some things are just wrong,

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which then begs the question why.
Yeah, And I'm not even bringing that

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up as like, you know,
here's how you debate the relativists. But

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I think that I'm just way you're
saying that, you know, that kind

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of radical relativism. It is just
in such disharmony with what we really know

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about human experience, and I think
that it's only a matter of time until

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that starts to crumble. At least
that's my hope. Maybe it's you know,

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just optimism. I don't know,
but I feel like it can only

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last but for so long until it
just starts to fall down and people start

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to look for something real, right, something that they can actually stand on.

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And so I hope what you're saying
is true that I hope that it

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does trickle down into the popular level, and I think that it will in

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time. Either that or we're just
going to totally implode and fall apart one

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of the two. I'm not really
sure which. Yeah, I feel like

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if maybe it's not you know,
contingent on it, but I feel like

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if a were to be start incorporating
more into our arts than it definitely would

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And so like that's always my as
a I'm a writer. As a writer,

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I always try to encourage. That's
one of my little passion projects is

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trying to encourage artists to you know, be purposeful and mindful of their own

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you know, the work they're doing, but they're also the philosophies and the

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geologies are putting into their art Because
I, like Plato, think art for

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art's sake is kind of trash.
But the best arts to have more vathuum

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purposes than that. But I think
the culture is so influenced by arts,

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and you know movies that fiction in
particular have usually you can see how they've

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impacted us and stay that they're in
right now, it is really disappointing.

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So it's my rally call to uh, all the Christian artists out there is

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to boldly, you know, create
art with meaning that we'll ask these questions

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and to start kind of infiltrating them
into the public square in the public consciousness.

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Yeah. Absolutely, And I mean, of course you have to be

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careful with that and not just produce
cheap propagandaf flicks. But you know,

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I mean, I'm sure you know
this, and probably one who listens to

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this knows this, that there's a
lot that passes as Christian art that is

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really not art and barely even Christian. And so, you know, I

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like in you know, in Lewis's
I think it's on Stories or one of

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those related literary criticism type papers,
says he wrote. You know, he

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makes the point that Okay, good
stories naturally rise out of the roots of

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the writer, right, And so
what we need are people who are deeply

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invested in truth, in critical thinking, people who have an intentional relationship with

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beauty. We need those people creating
arts. And that's how you get something

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good, something real, something true, something beautiful. And I think people

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largely know beauty when they see it, you know, speaking of visual arts.

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I'm not an artist, but I
appreciate art. And you know,

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I had my philosophy students go to
local art museum as an assignment and they

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had to you know, know,
what really stuck out to them the most,

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what they most appreciated, as well
as something that they just didn't like,

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either they just actively disliked it or
didn't appeal to them. I wanted

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to get them to do some reflection
and get a sense of their own aesthetic

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interests. And just about all these
students, which again in a confessional sense,

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almost all of them would claim to
be relativists, there is no such

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thing as beauty. It's all society
blah blah blah. Almost all of them

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were gravitated toward the classical art,
the Renaissance art, and they recognize how

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empty modern absurdism is. And that
just begs the question, if we're all

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relativists, and beauty is entirely dependent
on personal opinion, then why are most

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of us drawn toward the same things. It's because on some level we recognize

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reality when we see it. And
so I think this to agree with you,

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I think this is so important.
Whether we're talking about visual arts,

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writing, storytelling, movies, whatever, that is such a powerful medium that

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very often it's going to go far
more. It's going to go far further

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than our you know, rationalistic apologetics, even though that might have its place,

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argument only goes so far because a
lot of times our words can engage

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with their words, and neither of
us are actually going to be communicating with

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each other. Yeah. Yeah,
I did a study particular last year on

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our moral formation and that just a
unique relationship because it's the different parts of

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our brain that's you know, that
are active when we're joined and participating in

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art. You know, can have
it because it has an emotional impact,

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can have such a strong impact on
our moral formation and how you know historians,

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I mean even today, but I
believe, you know, art it's

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kind of how you measure a culture. You know, it's like historically and

333
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but even and back in the day, it was much more prevalent view that

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it was meant to kind of edify
the culture as a whole and like build

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them up and to be something to
something higher to reach for, you know

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what I mean, versus like this
deconstructive kind of portraying reality, almost the

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worst sides of reality that has become
this fascination with you know what I mean,

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And I think it just has such
an impact on us when our art

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becomes limited in that way and portrays
like the worst of humanity and portrays such

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negative I mean, there's so much
mealism and contemporary or it's just you think

341
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people don't talk about Nisha on like
a regular basis but like it's all over

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in our stories, like this fascination
with nihilism and deconstructionism of there is no

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you know, like no meaning and
truth that is filiar and that's anyway that's

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true. Yeah. Absolutely. Don't
you think about every you know, remake

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movie that's put out. It's always
the same, Let's just make it even

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darker and grittier, and that's what
it's going to do it. Uh,

347
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Yeah, there's this fascination where the
dark and the gritty, which I mean

348
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that can have its place in the
right context, but when everything is pushing

349
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that direction is a way of pushing
us down into the dirt rather than you

350
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know, ascending to the good and
the glorious. And you know, can

351
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you see this even in architecture,
right you look at you know, classic

352
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Christian inspired architecture and we get a
lot of you know, pointed angles,

353
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the idea of being that things are
meant to direct you upward right to transcend

354
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end. There's a great contrast in
some chech architecture, but before and after

355
00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:10.960
the commedis took over, where you
know, in the older classic architecture it's

356
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:15.400
very colorful. You get these jutting
rooftops, everything is pointing upward. Then

357
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the commedies take over and now we
get drab buildings of flat roofs, the

358
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idea being there trying to put a
seiling on existence and push you down rather

359
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than draw you up. And we
see that, you know, everywhere modern

360
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architecture. You know, I bring
this up to my students. I think

361
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it's abysmal that, you know,
we have these cinder block universities that are

362
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:38.240
simply set on, come here,
sit down, get some information, get

363
00:29:38.279 --> 00:29:41.160
a degree, go on and get
a job. You know, it's very

364
00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:45.000
industrialized, I mean literally coming out
of the Industrial Revolution, preparing people for

365
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:51.920
factory life. You know, that's
so much of our academic environment is based

366
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off rather than you know, you
go to the more historic universities, which

367
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you know, regardless of where they
are ideologic, ideologically right now, you

368
00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:04.279
know, just look at the architecture
and it's beautiful, obviously meant to call

369
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you upward, to call you into
a grander reality. And so just in

370
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the physical layout of our culture,
we see how we're being pushed down rather

371
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than raised up. And I think, I mean not a coincidence that we

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have radical increases in diagnosed mental illness
and depression and suicide race, especially amongst

373
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the younger generation. And I think
all these things are connected. But the

374
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problem is, this is the world
you've lived in. Well, fish doesn't

375
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:37.000
know that it's wet, right,
and so you know, they're not able

376
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to recognize what they've been fed their
entire lives. Absolutely, and at its

377
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best, art is meant to expand
the soul, you know, And I

378
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feel like though bad art can shrink
it, you know, yeah, yeah,

379
00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:56.440
yeah, exactly. I mean,
good art calls you forth to love

380
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that which is lovely, right,
and it's expansive. It opens you up,

381
00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:03.440
and you said, bad art closes
you off, It makes you small,

382
00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:07.960
It separates you from beauty, it
separates you from reality, It leaves

383
00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:12.000
you isolated. And and I think
that I especially the last few years,

384
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:17.559
but really the last few decades have
all been about making us feel isolated.

385
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:21.000
Well the same time, talking about
the importance of community gets brought up a

386
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:23.359
lot, and so agains just one
of those contrasts in our culture that just

387
00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:29.720
quite add up. Yeah, that's
so true. Before I even you know,

388
00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:33.839
launched into any of this sort of
study, I had a friend I

389
00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:37.119
was just when I was graduated high
school, I think in starting college,

390
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:40.279
and I was like, you know, you go, I moved into a

391
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:42.240
dorm and you know, you can
only bring so much with you. It's

392
00:31:42.279 --> 00:31:47.319
just a change in environment. I
think I was feeling just really studying hard,

393
00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:52.799
discouraged and stuff. And I made
some sort of comment about I don't

394
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:59.319
remember getting wanting something just because it
was like prettier, because it like I

395
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:00.920
don't know, but and she gave
me this advice and I think about it

396
00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:05.079
all the time, and she was
like, like, it's okay to surround

397
00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:08.319
yourself with beauty, you know,
and like to engage. And it really

398
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:12.359
was like ecause I didn't feel like
anybody else in my life was telling me

399
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:16.119
that, and it was like kind
of permission to be like you, No,

400
00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:20.640
it's not like something superficial, you
know, to like want to be

401
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:22.960
surround yourself with beauty and beautiful things. And that's different from you know,

402
00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:28.720
like materialism, because it's a different
thing. But I think sometimes people complete

403
00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:32.400
the two. But and it does, like it impacts you how much you're

404
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:37.759
exposing yourself to how much I'm exposing
myself to beauty, whether it's in the

405
00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:43.960
natural world or good stories or good
art or just even like good food,

406
00:32:44.119 --> 00:32:51.559
you know, really impacts my emotional
and spiritual health, and I think it's

407
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just something to be aware of.
And I mean all of this comes back

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to why I'm doing that kind of
study the summer on my own story philosophy

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and stories is obviously it's something I'm
passionate about, and I think it's worth

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taking into more and trying to talk
about more. Yeah. Absolutely, right,

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Well, we've gone a little over
thirty minutes. I think that's a

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00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:19.119
good place to go ahead and wrap
it. I really appreciate you coming by,

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and I'd love to have some more
of these conversations as we move forward.

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00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.160
Yeah, it's been really fun.
Thank you, Andrew. Absolutely.

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00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:34.559
I hope that you enjoyed that conversation, and thanks again for joining me,

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00:33:34.599 --> 00:33:37.160
Elizabeth, and again, if you
would like to participate in these discussions,

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00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:42.000
you can join at patreon dot com
slash Mythic Mind. I may change this

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00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:45.400
at some point, but at least
for the undetermined future, you have an

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00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:49.480
open invitation to these conversations if you
join at the five dollars a month year

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00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:52.400
or higher. This level of support
also gives you access to our discord server

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00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:58.079
and add free episodes of both Mythic
Mind podcasts, and before I sign off,

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00:33:58.079 --> 00:34:00.960
I want to give a special thank
you to my Tears three patrons and

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00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:04.880
higher, and so thank you Mark
Aaron, Paul Aaron, Aaron, Andrew

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00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:08.320
Brandon, Christopher m me Ian,
Jocelyn, Joshua Landon, Matthew Steele and

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00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:13.719
William and many thanks also to all
of my Tier one and Tier two patrons

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00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:16.920
as well. So that's it for
now, and I wish you many meaningful roads ahead