WEBVTT

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You are listening to the IFH podcast
Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting

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00:00:08.839 --> 00:00:13.679
podcasts, just go to IFH podcast
network dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof

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Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number three twenty
four. When given an opportunity, deliver

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excellence and never quit. Robert Rodriguez
broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in

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Hollywood when we really should be working
on that next draft. It's the Bulletproof

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Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft
and business of screenwriting while teaching you how

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to make your screenplay bulletproof. And
here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome,

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Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof
Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble

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host Alex Ferrari. Now, today's
show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage.

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Now. Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses on the

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kind of project you are in the
goals of the project you are, so

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we actually break it down by three
categories micro budget, indie film, market,

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and studio film. There's no reason
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used to reading tent pole movies when
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one hundred thousand dollars and we wanted
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and many many more. So if
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by professional readers, head on over
to cover my Screenplay dot com. Enjoy

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today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis. Hey, Tom, thanks all for

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coming on the show. I'm really
happy to be here, Dave, thanks

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for having me. Oh, you
know, my pleasure. Tom. You

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know, you're a person I've been
I've been mean to have on the podcast

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for a while. You know,
I really admire you know, your work

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and the work that you and Scott
do for Screenwriting Masterclass, and you know,

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it's good that we could actually,
you know, have this conversation now.

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Oh it's great. I'm glad you've
been enjoying classes and it's been good

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to have you in with us in
our in our classes. Oh yeah,

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I've been enjoying the classes a lot. And you know there's a question I

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usually uh asked most people, Uh, you know when when we start off,

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is I want to ask Tom you
know, how did you get started,

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you know, in the film industry. How I get started? Well,

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I I we fell in love with
movies when I was a kid.

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And we had a neighbor who was
a filmmaker, Burt Ballot Band, and

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we were on the set of his
movies a couple of times. And I

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just love to go to the movies. I have this weird you know.

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There were these movie theaters in our
town and I would go and see The

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West. We'd go to see the
you know, when I was a little

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kid, the the you know,
twenty cartoons, Matt and Ay in the

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afternoon and then an abern Castella movie. And my mom my parents really liked

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movies. My mom really liked movies. So like the first movie I saw

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in a theater was Bridge over the
River Kwai, and she took us to

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New York and so that in a
theater when I was a little kid.

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So I was just I really I
just always really loved movies and I would

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just go. I wouldn't go by
myself when I was a kid, but

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I read this one memory of I
really wanted to go see this this Western

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that was playing, and my friend
Larry didn't want to go. So I

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actually said, okay, I'll buy
your ticket, So I like paid for

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him to go, just so we
would do that in that afternoon. I

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think the movie was She Wore a
Yellow Ribbon, you know, And I

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have no idea what you know how
that whatever promotion for that movie made me

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want to see it. But yeah, so I just really liked movies,

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and then when I was in college, I started making films and I just

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you know, decided that's what I
wanted to do. And at that time,

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there was sort of the the the
the seventies and the eighties was a

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great time for movies. There's a
lot of excitement and there are a lot

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of film students who were breaking into
film. And I did my junior abroad

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in Paris and went to film school
and made a film. It was actually

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in French, was my student film. And I then came out to California

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when I finished school with my French
student film under my arm and a spec

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script that I'd written and tried to
make my way and you know, sell

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the script and get work and that
was a process. But then, you

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know, I worked at you I
did like different kinds of jobs and this

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guy hired me to write and direct
an educational film which was like it was

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a story film. It was sort
of a red balloon kind of film.

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And I made that film and it
won an award and a festival, which

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kind of gave me a little bit
of hope. And I kept writing scripts

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along the way, and then I
got an agent and had some jobs and

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you know, nothing to nothing that
really panned out into anything. They were

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fun and interesting jobs that I had. I optioned to script to a guy,

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to actually Rick Rosenthal, who became
a director and TV director and still

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very active out here as a company
called Whitewater, and so I opted to

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script to him. And then I
wrote a script that uh got got some

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interest from Bob Zemeckis through my brother
was was a lawyer and he was working

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with Larry Caston and Zamex was a
friend of his, and I wrote the

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script. My brother liked the script
and he gave it to those guys.

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He gave it to Caston and kast
and gave it to Zemeckis and Szemeckis really

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loved the script and he wanted to
make the movie. So you know,

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that was that was my first taste
of anything, which really was going to

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be you know, breaking into the
you know, so scaling the walls of

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the studios, so to speak.
And that project ended up nothing ended up

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happening with it. You know,
we because Bob Zamechas I thought, you

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know, I was like this,
he had done used cars and I want

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to hold your hand. He was
spiel He and Bob Gail were Spielberg sort

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of protegees of the time, and
then Spielberg directed their script nineteen forty one,

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which was a huge flop at the
time. You know, it was

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just like a big you know,
it was like Spielberg's first movie that he'd

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made that hadn't worked. So when
Zemeckis got interested in my script, it

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was like the tail end of his
that first wave of what he you know,

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had going in the business. So
it wasn't the greatest of times for

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him, but you know, he
loved my script and he wanted to do

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it, and he you know,
we took it to all these places and

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nothing happened with it. So I, you know, I was kind of

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charged by that. You know,
I felt like, wow, you know,

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it was like more than it ever
happened to me. And I was

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exciting and it was it was a
fun thing. And I, you know,

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we were still I was still kicking
that script around and trying to do

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things with it and working on another
script. And then about six months later,

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the phone rang and it was Meckis
and he said, I, ay,

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time, I have this project at
Fox and they I need a writer

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to develop it with me. Would
you be interested? And yeah, yeah,

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of course I was interested. So
that was Cocoon. It was this

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unpublished novel and there was the producers
with these Megat producers Richards, Richard Zaneck

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and David Brown. You know,
they'd done Jaws and Staying and all these

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things. They had this big deal
at Fox. So he had that deal

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with developing that project with him,
and they're a writer had done an adaptation.

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It was an unpublished novel and the
Sky had done an adaptation of it

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and it wasn't it wasn't really no
one was very happy with it. And

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so they gave me the material and
said, well, you know what,

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what can you do something with it? So I, you know, figured

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out a pitch and I had to
go in and you know, I pitched

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it to Bob, tried to figure
out something that like would sort of work

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with his sensibility in terms of what
the material was. And I kind of

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reinvented what they had before and reinvented
the novel and novel the novel in a

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lot of ways, and used the
story and just change a lot of elements,

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characters and things to it and kept
some you know, the basic sci

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fi story that was there. I
stuck with that, and you know,

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it's about the you know, the
story is exactly what the movie is,

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but you know, many adjustments later, I think. And so, yeah,

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I pitched that at to Zanick and
Brown and Lily Zannick, Richard Zack's

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wife, and yeah, they they
bought, you know, they they hired

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me to write that script. And
so that was my first that and that

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you know, I meanazingly, there
was all this drama. You know,

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the studio Zemeckis then went off to
do Romancing the Stone and they ended up

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having a lot of problems with the
studio with Romancing the Stone. In our

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movie, kakoon I wrote the script
and it got greenlit. You know,

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it's like they wanted to make that
movie with Zemeckis, but then he was

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off making this other movie for Fox
and they were having all this he was

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really tangling with some people, with
Michael Douglas and other people the studio about

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that project in some ways. So
it ended up they ended up not wanting

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him to direct Kakoon. So we
had this movie that was greenlit and we

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didn't have a director. And then
some I then suggested Ron Howard because of

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Splash, and miraculously, Ron Howard
had read the script before and we'll be

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right back after a word from our
sponsor and now back to the show and

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was interested in the project, and
you know, the producers convinced him to

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do it, and so you know, that's and that was my you know,

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my big way if that was my
way in that was my first riders

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skilled job, and that was my
you know, first movie that got made.

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And so so way after that time, did did you get a lot

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of like people wanting to work with
you and like a lot of directors wanted

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wanting to sit down with you to
talk about their projects. Yeah, I

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mean that was like, yeah,
it was pretty you know, it's like

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such yeah, I was. I
mean, you know, because well once

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the movie got going, I started
getting you know, some work started coming

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my way. You know with other
other producers wanted to work with me because

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the movie was you know, in
development. I was sort of like you

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know, in the game a little
bit, so to speak. And then

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when the movie came out and it
turned out to be a hit, and

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you know, and it was it
was it was well liked by people in

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the in the by the people in
the business. It was just you know,

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people really really really were very kind
about the movie, and so yeah,

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I just started getting you know,
and the business was so different than

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the studio system. You know,
the student like Cahoon would not get made.

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Now. I mean, it might
get made somehow. Someone would struggle

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and fight and get a made.
But you know, it was like a

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twenty million dollars at that time,
a twenty million dollar movie, which is

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a very low budget studio movie,
about as low as you could do at

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a studio at that time, I
think, and with no stars. You

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know, Steve Gutenberg wasn't really you
know, he was a star, but

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he wasn't you know, like a
movie He wasn't a you know, he

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wasn't a guy who was known to
just you know, put to get movies.

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Any movie couldn't put you put together
with him and at that time.

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So yeah, so that was you
know then you know, the people just

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started throwing me every kind of job
you can imagine. You know, it

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was just like, yeah, things
changed, so I got I just got

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a lot of work after that.
Definitely definitely a lot of you know,

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things going on that way. And
you touched on something to Tom that I

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that I wanted to talk about,
which was you mentioned you know that movie

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wouldn't get made today, and you
know, I think you're right because I

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you know, everything now is either
like a low budget you know, one

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to five million dollar movie or it's
a huge superhero movie, and you know

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that that's something now where I wonder, you know, where where is that

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middle ground that that used to be? You know what I mean? And

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so you know where I wanted to
ask you is is excuse me I wanted

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to ask you is is you know, what would you do if you were

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a screenwriter starting off right now?
You know, what would you do you

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know, to sort of you know, get your foot in the door again,

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knowing the marketplaces where it is right
now? I would just write.

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I would write a great script and
whatever whatever you are interested that writer's feels

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they have in their heart that they
can embrace and really feel committed to emotionally

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and and spiritually and physically and just
like you know, on every level.

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And just write a great script.
And if you write a great script,

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then you have a writing sample.
And you know, in terms of the

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practicalities of what can get made,
yeah, you know, it's it's better

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to write something that's can be made
for a price. And even if the

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marketplace doesn't allow for that kind of
thing as much. If you want to

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be in the feature game, you
have to write a feature film. And

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you know so, and it may
be that writing and enclo a something doing

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you know, mixing it up,
writing something, writing something that's you know,

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an enclosed thriller or something that's extremely
low budget that you know can be

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really made cheaply, and yet is
a genre film. I think that's something

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that the studios are interested in.
It's you know, I think that if

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you if you embrace a genre,
you you if you want to work for

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the studios, if you want to
work in that context, you kind of

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have to look at the movies that
they're making and embrace that kind of movie

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and do something which demonstrates that you
are can do that better than anybody else

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that they're going to have, So
you know that they're my agent, as

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all these writers working for Marvel,
you know, I mean, so you

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know, so there there are these
there are people who are specialists in that

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and that's that's that they've dedicated themselves
to that. They love that and that's

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what they do and that's the kind
of work that they're getting. And they

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may have come at it from somewhere
else. They may have written something that

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was a more specific sci fi or
very you know, heightened kind of action

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film that got them there, but
something that really corresponds to what that realm

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is and the kind of kind of
scenes and the kind of character development kind

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of stories that are in that genre, and you know they are like there

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are other kinds of genres that you
know, there's the horror genre, and

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you know, there's there's a few
you know, there's action thrillers that you

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know, one character action thrillers,
which is probably you know, the most

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you know, a simpler version of
you know, a less expensive kind of

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movie that the studios can make where
they can make it with one star and

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if it's you know, if it's
a compelling story, original it can be

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you know, I think it's going
to be the next Taken or something like

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that. So that's that's the way
in. And it's much more limited,

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you know, I mean the when
I you know, there used to be

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development executives. There used to be
a point of pride that a development executive

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would have two projects that were that
they loved but were very difficult to get

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off the ground or sort of impossible, but they loved them, so they

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had you know that those people aren't
that's not something that is part of the

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part of the mix right now.
And the people who are left as the

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development executives are you know there it's
business. You know, it's just very

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you know, it's paired down to
the being specific to what the necessities of

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international distribution are and that's you know, that's the studios. And then there's

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television. You know, I think
that television is kind of that picked up

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the slack and all these people are
moving into television and the television is just

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taking a lot of different forms and
six episode series or ten episodes here you

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know, cable shows or ten episodes
and for a season and that's it.

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And then there are you know,
Netflix does these small films. Now,

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there's Telulu. Telula just came out
on Netflix. There's a good little film

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with with Ellen Page and Alison Janny
which is like Juno It's but it's straight

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up there on on Netflix. And
bos Loreman's doing the get Down on on

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Netflix. Really interesting show. So
television is really and what we're saying about

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in television, there's you know,
limited series are are significant, and series

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that have few episodes are significant.
So something that could be a feature film

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could also be put into one of
those contexts. But you know, and

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also making making your own film,
making an independent film. We're just trying

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to do something that's really small that
goes to the independent market and there's not

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a lot of money in that.
But if your heart is isn't an idea

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in a project, you kind of
have to You kind of have to do

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it and try and find a way, and people find a way, things

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rise up. You know, everybody's
hoping that this year that at the festivals

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and wherever, that some great stuff
is going to rise up. So if

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people keep making movies and keep writing
scripts and then good things will happen.

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Yeah, you know, you made
another good point. Tom which is about

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TV. You know, that's where
a lot of good writers now that even

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you know that I even know personally, are all aiming for TV now rather

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than feature films. And I think
part of the reason is is because of

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the budget issue, where you know, you want to make a feature film,

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you know, and they'll look at
it and they go, well,

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you know, maybe this would be
better as episodic because that's you know,

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everyone has been you know, conditioned
to to binge watch it or you know

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what I mean. And they're and
we're in the golden age of TV.

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There's so many good TV shows on, you know, out there, and

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you know, I think, you
know, even some of the producers and

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maybe would have made those movies,
those feature films even a few years ago,

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have maybe too much on their plate
or they just aren't making those types

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of movies anymore. Yeah, I
think you have a lot. I mean,

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they're not there. It's hard for
the producers. The producers are reluctant

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to develop a lot of things because
it's really hard to set them up.

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It's just they don't, you know, the studios aren't giving the producers budgets

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for development, and they're just not
buying. It's not a it's a it's

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it's there. They only buy they
buy scripts when they're going to go into

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production a lot of the time now
apparently, So yeah, it's TV is

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really picking up the slack and uh, you know, and I think that

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it's it's this breakdown which is occurring
and the but I think that, you

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know things, eventually, the theatrical
theatrical film is not going to go away.

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It's that form is important and people
don't just want to watch series.

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People don't always want to just get
hooked into something that's going to take them

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ten hours to watch. They want
to sit down with a group of people

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or buy themselves and watch something that's
two hours. And that's that form is

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primal to film entertainment. So it's
not going anywhere. It's just right now

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we're in kind of a it's in
kind of a down swing in terms of

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the certain sectors of the kinds of
films that are getting made, and it's

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it's probably gonna it's probably gonna change, and it may not be that the

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movie theaters are going to be as
important as they were, but I think

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that there's still there's always going to
be room for a good movie, for

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a good script and a good movie. We'll be right back after a word

278
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from our sponsor, and now back
to the show. It's just but I

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think that in practical terms, having
a TV script is something where people feel

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like they can do something with it. There's there's all these channels, there's

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all these outlets that are all looking
for stuff, so you know, and

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there you know, if you take
the difference between the way that Warner Brothers

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is trying to find material for movies
Warner Brothers films, versus the way that

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AMC AMC channel is looking for projects, I would guess that AMC is is

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a lot more you know, fun
place to go to if you really want

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to sell something these days. Yeah, you know, because AMC, you

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know, with The Walking Dead and
they also Breaking Bad and uh you know,

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and you know, I like you
said that a lot of people are

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taking more chances because you know,
I heard a rumor that Voodoo, which

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is owned by Walmart, is going
to start making their own original content.

291
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Goes everyone wants to get into that
game of creating their own original you know,

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movies and TV shows. Yeah,
I mean, someone this idea of

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the content bubble is uh. You
know they said two years ago somebody said

294
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that there was a content bubble and
it was going to go all you know,

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there are too many shows and all
this, Well the bubble hasn't gone

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away, and you know, I
was the truth is that a show that

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a cable show that is doing really
well the number of people who are actually

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watching it, it would be canceled. It would have been canceled fifteen years

299
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ago if it were in a network
show. So it doesn't have to do

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that much business. It's like this. It's kind of this large scale version

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of the long tail where people,
you know, where there are so many

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niches now and if you if you
fit into a niche and you write something

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of quality to create a show of
quality that really that people who are in

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passionate about that and beyond you know, respond to, then you know it's

305
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it's gonna it's gonna work. So
you have all these channels and they're all

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they're all looking for stuff. They're
all looking for ways to survive or make

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themselves more prominent than they are.
And so you know, you so there

308
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are all these channels you never heard
of, are all sort of have one

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eye on doing some you know,
some kind of TV series or some kind

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of filmed entertainment show that's not just
what their standard mix might be. So

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yeah, so there's you know,
there's a lot going on. There's also

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you know, things that are just
on the web, just web series,

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and you know, there are these
verticals which are groups groupings together, group

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grouped together, web shows that are
you know, just a bunch of web

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channels that are that are that are
part of one organization. And there's just

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gonna be more that's just starting.
And now it's you know, people you

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know treat it like, oh,
you know, some people love YouTube and

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some people feel like they don't relate
to it and they feel like it not

319
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for them, and then they generalize
that that realm is never going to be

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something that they would ever want to
work in. Well, it's gonna evolve,

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I mean, all these things are
going to evolve. Maybe it won't

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be YouTube specific. Maybe YouTube will
stay that the realm of what is now,

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which is you know, I enjoy
some of the things that are on

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there, but it may be that
it will really you know, there'll be

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more diversification, there'll be more different
kinds of shows even within YouTube. So

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there's plenty of there's a lot of
opportunity, and there's a lot of a

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lot of ways to go, and
you can know, having a good script

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is a beginning and then being industrious
about figuring out where it can fit in.

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You know, we just were talking
about web series too, because uh,

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you know, I took that class
with you about creating a web series,

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and you know that is something too. You know, I've noticed was

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that there's more web series competitions springing
up more and more, uh, you

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know, and they're very open because
there's no you know, set page count,

334
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you know what I mean, Like
so some kid, you know,

335
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they're like, hey, if you're
if you're entry is five pages or whether

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it's twenty five pages, as long
as you're you know, you have this

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concept for for you know, the
channel or for the project in general.

338
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You know you will will accept these
entries. Yeah, I mean, yeah,

339
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:21.960
you can. It can be whatever
you want it to be. I

340
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mean, someone can define if if
something's really compelling and it's thirty minutes,

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it's people are gonna watch it.
I mean, it's just a matter of

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a matter of doing something that's of
quality and doing something that really you know,

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that that really is you know,
outstanding for people and satisfies and you

344
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know it is resonant, and I
think you know, you can bring the

345
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same skill sets of and the same
same emotional tools that you bring put in

346
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a screenplay to these short forms,
and you can also use the short form

347
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to boost a you know, boost
a script or a movie. There's a

348
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lot more of people putting together real
to try and sell projects. You know,

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00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:07.759
they sort of like to really investing
in whatever their ideas and having a

350
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way to present it that really injects
it into people's heads in a creative way.

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So it may not just be reading
the script. It's you know,

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there's there's more to it, and
that's you know, I mean, as

353
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a writer, I would prefer if
it was just this level playing field,

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it was this orderly situation where people
were reading the scripts and then you know,

355
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making rational decisions about them after having
you know, a good experience reading

356
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the script. But there's it's gotten. The people are doing more and more

357
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to try and and and enhance the
possibilities of something and get people's attention to

358
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to the material that they have.
Yeah, what one common tactor that I've

359
00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:55.799
seen is to make something into like
a transmedia projects you know, where it's

360
00:25:55.839 --> 00:25:59.240
you know, a web series and
uh, or it starts off as a

361
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novel and then you make the movie, or then you write the script and

362
00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:04.920
say, hey, it's based off
the novel by the same writer. You

363
00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:07.640
know, I've seen people, you
know more people trying to package things.

364
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:11.680
You know, like we were talking
about setting setting up projects, and you

365
00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:14.279
know what they would try to do
is also get Facebook page, a fan

366
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page or sorry, facebook fans for
their page, you know, Twitter followers,

367
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and that way, when you're pitching
to people, they can say,

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hey, look we already have you
know, ten thousand people on the on

369
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this on this fan page. Yeah, and that you know, that speaks

370
00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:30.279
the idea that you can so much, that you can do yourself, and

371
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:36.359
that you can't you know that that
whole the other going back to the feature

372
00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:38.839
realm, you know, there's this
you know, people who are doing a

373
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kickstarter, you know, you you
can get a movie done that way.

374
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You can, you know, if
you have a script and if you you

375
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:49.240
know you have to. It's there's
a whole there's an art and a science

376
00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:55.480
to doing kickstarter or see in the
spark and that's a way to build the

377
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following for your your script and kind
of figure out, well, is there,

378
00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:03.000
you know, find the audience for
it. And then if you do,

379
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:06.799
if you do a Kickstarter and you
start a Facebook page and you do

380
00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:14.920
all these things and people and you're
able to communicate what your film is and

381
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:18.880
get people and people resonate with it, then that's you know, that's the

382
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:22.519
kind of a test of you know, if you do that, then your

383
00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:26.359
your project. It bodes well for
your projects, so you know, so

384
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:30.079
it's a good thing to do.
But again that's it's really like it's just

385
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not just not just having the script, but then doing all these other things.

386
00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:38.799
And sometimes rather than going around and
trying to get sort of go around

387
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:44.799
to the agents and managers and producers
and try and get permission to do something

388
00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:48.079
which you know, or get them
to approve what you've done so that they

389
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:52.119
can then go out and market it, if you really just go into the

390
00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:55.160
trenches with it and just you know, try and try and figure out a

391
00:27:55.160 --> 00:28:00.640
way to get it done yourself or
that that may be more productive ultimately.

392
00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:04.680
So yeah, very very true.
Tom. You know, Tom, I

393
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:07.200
wanted to you know, ask because
you know, we need tower a conversation

394
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about you know, making projects.
You know, what sort of advice you

395
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:14.160
know, would you give to somebody
who was, uh who you know who

396
00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:18.640
was thinking about writing a screenplay?
Uh for for you know, I usually

397
00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:21.640
say beginners, but if you don't
mind, Tom, what would you say

398
00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:26.160
to somebody who maybe even is beyond
the beginner and maybe like intermediate to advance?

399
00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:27.559
You know, what would you give, you know, any advice to

400
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:32.640
them about about you know, sort
of right for writing for their next screenplay,

401
00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:36.400
whether it be about structure, whether
it be about concept. Is there

402
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:41.119
any anything you know that you could
comment about? I would say, no,

403
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:48.400
great character, driving plot, great
characters, and uh really having a

404
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:55.400
you know, making sure that your
movie is really about something and you know,

405
00:28:55.559 --> 00:29:00.519
working working to the heart of what
it is and uh you know that's

406
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:04.519
probably you know, just just just
giving it, giving your project and I've

407
00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:07.079
been saying this, giving your project
love, you know, giving it all

408
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:11.079
the loves you can and really you
know, make it great and uh,

409
00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:17.799
you know, and be able to
enunciate what it is, really say,

410
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:22.559
say what it is and not to
oversimplify it, but to really sort of

411
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:25.240
have and I you know, be
able to be clear. You know,

412
00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:29.440
you might not know it when you
start out what it was really about,

413
00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:33.559
but by the or you or you
might not know what sort of the mirror,

414
00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:36.880
you know, what the important things
that your characters go through that they

415
00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:40.839
really discover about themselves or what they
you know, what they finally conquer or

416
00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:44.640
just like you know what that could
mean to people who would be hearing about

417
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:47.920
the project. So they hear about
you know, they might hear about a

418
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:52.039
high concept, some sort of hook
of what the plot is where it takes

419
00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:55.519
place, which sounds really Oh,
that's interesting. I haven't heard that,

420
00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:59.960
you know, that's I haven't that
sounds I'd like to see that. Well,

421
00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:06.880
right back after a word from our
sponsor, and now back to the

422
00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:12.359
show. But then if the closer
is and this person, this guy or

423
00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:18.279
this woman, they what they would
happened to them, the main characters experience

424
00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:22.680
in their own life in their own
terms of what happens to them through through

425
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.240
the story, which is going to
translate to you know, it's going to

426
00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:30.759
be the people who hear the story, watch the film and read the script,

427
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:37.079
they're gonna they're gonna grow from whatever
that growth is that takes place in

428
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:41.720
the character, and you know,
sometimes that's not it. Sometimes characters don't

429
00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:45.079
change, they don't grow, and
it's not every movie and not to be

430
00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:48.519
formulated it has to be that way. But I think that even if that's

431
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:52.079
not the case, the character will
have there's a certain kind of heart story

432
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:56.160
that will take place at the center
of most films, which is what people

433
00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:03.079
remember. That's what people that's why
people remember movies is because of that story

434
00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:06.920
within the story. And you know, I'm I'm always chasing it down with

435
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:10.359
my own stuff, and uh,
you know, sometimes I don't know.

436
00:31:10.519 --> 00:31:14.480
Sometimes I start with the story that's
very external and you have to start somewhere,

437
00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:18.319
and you not, you may not
know what it's really about until you've

438
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:22.759
written it and you can outline and
outline and outline. But I think in

439
00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:29.519
the in writing is where if you
really let yourself you go when you're writing,

440
00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:32.680
if you really, you know,
take the ride with it, you'll

441
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:36.319
discover what you'll learn, what you're
you're you know, it's it's in you

442
00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:41.079
and you're sort of the instrument that's
gonna get it out. But it's gonna

443
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:45.640
you want it to have a life
of its own on the page, you

444
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:48.440
know, and even talking with Scott
you know, you know, Scott Meyers,

445
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:52.279
the other half of scre Writing masterclass. For those listening, uh,

446
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:56.960
you know, we were talking about
character and how character is everything because characters

447
00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:00.839
suggest plot. You know, everything
comes from character, you know, and

448
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:04.279
and those moments, moments where they
change in the film, that all comes

449
00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:08.079
from you know, their character and
either wanting or needing to change. And

450
00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:13.319
you know, this whole idea where
you can you know, sort of take

451
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:16.359
out you know, an outline,
formula outline and just plug whatever in there.

452
00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:21.480
I think it's a downfall to a
lot of screenwriters because I've seen them,

453
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:22.039
you know, try to say,
oh man, you know, on

454
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:24.680
page seventeen, I gotta have this, and on page thirty, I gotta

455
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:28.160
have this, and and you know, you just go, you know,

456
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:30.640
you wonder why why movies become formulaic? What's because of stuff like that?

457
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:34.880
Yeah, I think that's true.
And I think that, you know,

458
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:42.039
I mean, the you know,
the formulas or the dramatic structure wasn't it

459
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:46.960
wasn't invented before the story. The
first stories were told. The stories were

460
00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:52.839
told naturally. People just told stories. And then after a while people sat

461
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:57.200
down, well, why is everybody
listening to him or her, you know,

462
00:32:57.319 --> 00:33:00.440
And then they realized, oh,
well, you know this is where

463
00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:04.200
you know, they they set it
up here and they you know, they

464
00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:09.400
worked it and then they there was
this point where everything went went downhill completely

465
00:33:09.519 --> 00:33:13.759
to the bottom. The main character, they all bottomed out, and then

466
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:15.160
there was this lift you know,
at the end. So yeah, they

467
00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:19.480
figured they maybe they saw that in
what those but the stories came first,

468
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:23.640
and so there was no theory.
So and the theory is a way to

469
00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:29.680
sort of you know, sometimes you
may write just okay, I know I'm

470
00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:31.079
going to need these things, and
it's a way to start writing. It's

471
00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:35.359
a way to get going. But
you want to just let the story.

472
00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:38.400
You want to just kind of find
the story in its rost form, and

473
00:33:38.440 --> 00:33:44.519
then it may be misshapen in some
way, or it may be missing some

474
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:47.720
elements, like you know, and
then you can go to the formula or

475
00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:52.799
go to those models of how scripts
are structured, and you know, the

476
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:59.240
idea the lessons about dramatic structure and
just sort of measure what you have against

477
00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:02.799
those ideas about structure, and it
might say, wow, you know,

478
00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:10.599
I never really I didn't really explore
my characters enough before the point, you

479
00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:14.920
know, before the the you know, when everything got really bad and all

480
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:16.480
is lost moments, so to speak. You know, so you can use

481
00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:22.360
it to kind of diagnose, but
you may not want to necessarily start.

482
00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:25.639
You may want to write instinctively at
first and then see how it fits into

483
00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:30.599
those structural models as kind of a
remedy. It's like in acting, you

484
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:34.280
know, the method method acting,
you know, is this wave of this

485
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:39.480
wave sort of imagining. I'll oversimplify
it, but it's if a character,

486
00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:44.800
if an actor has a part that
they're doing, they may dig deep in

487
00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:52.519
their own experience to find moments that
will make them feel the moments in their

488
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:57.840
real life that made them feel in
a similar way to the characters way the

489
00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:01.199
character might be feeling because of what's
going on in the story. So they'll

490
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:05.039
plug that in and they'll realize,
Okay, at that point, I'm going

491
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:08.760
to think about when my you know, when when I saw the elephant get

492
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:13.360
euthanized or whatever it is. Now, so that'll make me cry. So

493
00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:17.400
they'll and maybe in the movie they're
watching you know something completely, you know,

494
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:22.360
they're observing a soldier dying in a
bed or something you know, whatever

495
00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:28.400
it is, but they use that
emotional moment from their real life to sort

496
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:32.159
of make themselves feel and appears or
the way that they're supposed to fear appear.

497
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:37.559
And that's method acting, but some
actors may need to do that every

498
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:42.880
second of how complicated would that be? Every moment you're trying to scotch tape

499
00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:45.719
together something had happened from when your
life. I think most of the time

500
00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:51.760
most actors, even method actors,
are just imagining it. They're just they

501
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:54.000
jump into the character and they imagine
it, and then they reach a bump

502
00:35:54.039 --> 00:35:58.880
in the road at a certain point
where you know, they're facing that soldier

503
00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:00.840
dying in the bed, and they
just they're just not feeling it, or

504
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:06.679
they just don't feel like they really
have a clear understanding of what it would

505
00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:09.760
really they can't bring They're just looking
for more from what they want to be

506
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:15.119
from their performance. So in that
piece of the of their performance, they

507
00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:22.679
may use that idea from that that
experience from their real life and bring it

508
00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:27.440
in and then just use that there
so that and then on film people you

509
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:31.639
know, it will work really well
because there they seem to be the emotion

510
00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:36.760
is really you know, appropriate for
what they're they would for for what's going

511
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:40.400
on at that point. That could
be a great performance, but that's that's

512
00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:46.360
a technique, and that may not
be a technique that is used every second

513
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:50.840
of of you know. It's just
like you don't do that all the time.

514
00:36:51.239 --> 00:36:52.360
An actor doesn't do that all the
time, just the same way a

515
00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:59.360
writer may not use the form you
know, the formulas all the time as

516
00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:00.599
they write. I may just write, and when they hit that bump in

517
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:04.719
the road or they just want something
more, they feel like there's something missing,

518
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:07.360
then they'll go to the technique.
Then they'll go to the formulas and

519
00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:13.800
use it as a as a helper, you know. And it's also something

520
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:15.320
two times, you know, as
we talk, you know about about writing

521
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:19.760
and you know, and we're talking
about outlining, because you know, when

522
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:22.119
I when I've outlined and then I
started actually write it, I've had a

523
00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:24.840
lot of aha moments as I'm actually
writing, you know, I'm sort of

524
00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:28.000
like, oh, okay, you
know, maybe this could happen, you

525
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:30.800
know what I mean, you start
getting these ideas that you sort of maybe

526
00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:35.280
can't see with the outline because you're
the outline really ends up becoming like a

527
00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:38.079
lot of broad strokes, if you
know what I mean. And that's what

528
00:37:38.119 --> 00:37:42.320
I've learned too, is you know, as we're making this outline to really

529
00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:45.280
get in there, and it's you're
able to sort of now say, okay,

530
00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:47.599
now this scene has to come out
of this scene, and now we

531
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:52.559
can do this and you know within
this scene, this is how this reversal

532
00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:54.679
happens in this scene, because you
know, it started off with guy A

533
00:37:54.880 --> 00:37:58.800
has all the power, and then
it ends with guy BE having all the

534
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:02.039
power, you know, stuff like
that. Yeah, I think I completely

535
00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:06.519
agree. I think that, you
know, I feel sometimes I feel like

536
00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:12.199
I outline too much and then I'd
be better off just writing pages. And

537
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:14.719
then I sort of want to be
I want to be writing pages, just

538
00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:17.639
to let myself be writing pages.
And then there's this fear that, oh

539
00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:20.679
no, if I write, If
I write pages, you know, it's

540
00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:23.400
just I'm going to write myself into
a hole with a stuff that doesn't make

541
00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:29.199
sense. And I you know,
but I think that there is a point

542
00:38:29.239 --> 00:38:30.360
where you really want to, you
know, you want to write, and

543
00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:35.239
I think in some ways you can. I also like to and I advise

544
00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:38.119
get start writing, go forward.
See what, see what's going to happen,

545
00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:42.239
and then go back to your outline. Play with your outline based on

546
00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:45.440
what you write. You know,
restructure based on the inspiration that comes from

547
00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:49.960
the writing, because it will change, it should change. You know,

548
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:53.360
if you're writing for you know,
if you have a deadline and you have

549
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:58.800
a producer you know, a company
or something and they're they've approved an outline,

550
00:38:58.840 --> 00:39:01.559
well that's different. You know,
you can you can diverge a little

551
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:05.320
bit, but you may have to
stick with it. But you know,

552
00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:08.360
if you're just writing your own scripture, just like, no, bring yourself

553
00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:14.880
up. No, yeah, I
know exactly what you mean. And you

554
00:39:14.920 --> 00:39:19.000
know because I actually, you know, I started off writing feature films and

555
00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:22.639
now I actually just wrote two TV
pilots, one half hour one drama,

556
00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:25.679
and now you know, I sort
of I see you know, talking with

557
00:39:25.719 --> 00:39:29.880
like Jennifer gersani as she was on
the podcast few episodes ago, you know,

558
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:31.960
where we're talking about creating that bible, uh, you know, and

559
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:36.199
just creating a pitch and to making
sure that all this stuff is set so

560
00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:37.800
that you know, they know that
you have a vision of where this is

561
00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:40.880
gonna go, and you know,
the whole thing sort of it sort of

562
00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:45.920
folds back and you have the vision
of where it's gonna go and the series

563
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:51.519
arc, what's gonna happen in season
one? We'll be right back after a

564
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:59.960
word from our sponsor, and now
back to the show, which you know,

565
00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:01.400
which is the season one arc,
and then you have the entire you

566
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:05.199
know, episodic arc about that season, you know what I mean. So

567
00:40:05.239 --> 00:40:07.559
it's you know, putting all this
stuff together and you realize, you know,

568
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:12.440
making a TV pilot is actually really
really difficult, and I and I

569
00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:15.480
and I actually might venture off Tom
and saying, you know, pound for

570
00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:17.840
pound, it might be the most
difficult of doing all this stuff, you

571
00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:21.599
know, whether we're talking about writing
web series or feature films or TV.

572
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:24.400
You know, I think TV writing
it writing a TV pilot because you have

573
00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:28.639
to get everything in motion and you
have to you know, make sure that

574
00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:30.039
you know, it's it's, it's, it's, it's it's intriguing and all

575
00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:35.000
that stuff, and you have to
do introduce all these characters within you know,

576
00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:37.079
thirty and you know, one hour, you know what I mean.

577
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:39.079
Yeah, I agree, it's really
hard, and you know, I think

578
00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:45.639
the idea of having to present this
they want more, you know, they

579
00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:49.719
want an episode, and you know, the pilot and then outlines for a

580
00:40:49.760 --> 00:40:52.079
couple of episodes and then the whole
you know, a season some you know,

581
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:55.480
a season Bible of some sort,
or just you know, descriptions of

582
00:40:55.480 --> 00:41:00.320
many many things. It's really it's
like you're pre writing a novel. It's

583
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:04.280
it's pretty. It's tough, you
know, and and you can get away.

584
00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:06.440
I think you can get away with
less if you have a really strong

585
00:41:06.519 --> 00:41:09.920
pilot. But you do have to
give him a lot of I was being

586
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:14.119
with a writer, you know,
was done a lot of a lot of

587
00:41:14.119 --> 00:41:21.719
stuff, and he was he was
saying that that they that it's that most

588
00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:28.440
of the speculation of the season of
the Bible is just like bs that most

589
00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:30.920
of the time it's not going to
end up that way. You know that

590
00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:37.639
you can't really know, you can't
really pre determine the season from just writing

591
00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:39.880
the pilot. And maybe some people
can. I don't know, I don't

592
00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:45.039
know if that's okay. But there
are buyers who are buying the entire you

593
00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:49.320
know that they're just buying the entire
season, so that that's really what you're

594
00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:52.440
you know, you're going in and
they you want to sell them, you

595
00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:59.360
know, the production of the entire
season of the show, so you better

596
00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:04.119
have something A yeah, and you're
right. It is like setting up a

597
00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:07.599
novel. It's you know, because
you have to make sure they they they

598
00:42:07.639 --> 00:42:09.079
know, they have to make sure
that you know where this is going,

599
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:12.719
you know, it's not just sort
of like the pilot. And then you're

600
00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:15.119
like, well, I gotta kind
of figure out where everything goes from here,

601
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:16.840
you know. And speaking of very
for TV, you actually have an

602
00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:21.679
upcoming uh TV writing class? Correct, Tom, I do I have one.

603
00:42:21.760 --> 00:42:24.039
It starts it's this week. Are
you when is this airing? I

604
00:42:24.079 --> 00:42:28.239
have? I have. I have
a one week class this week, and

605
00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:32.000
then in September I have a pilot
workshop that's going to be going on.

606
00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:37.000
So this will will be airing about
two weeks, so maybe the beginning of

607
00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:42.239
September. Yeah, let me tell
you here. I'll let me get the

608
00:42:42.320 --> 00:42:45.320
dates here for you. I can
figure that out here. One second.

609
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:04.800
Two weeks okay, September fifth,
right after Labor Day, I have a

610
00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:07.960
Pages one writing the first draft.
That's a feature class. And then that

611
00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:15.000
September twelfth, I have pages two
it's a rewrite class. For features,

612
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:17.840
and we also do TV pilots in
there as well, so it's you know

613
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:22.559
that one both both can be in
there. And then on the twenty sixth

614
00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:27.679
of September, I have a Pages
TV Original TV Pilotscript Workshop, So that's

615
00:43:27.719 --> 00:43:30.519
a ten week pilot workshop where we
you know, we work out a whole

616
00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:36.800
series concept and pilotscript in that class. So I have those things up coming

617
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:42.320
at Screenwriting Masterclass on the line.
Very cool, Tom, you know,

618
00:43:42.519 --> 00:43:44.679
so you know, and I'll make
sure to link to those in the show

619
00:43:44.719 --> 00:43:47.159
notes everyone and you in closing,
Tom, because I know we're just about

620
00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:51.400
at a time. Is there anything
that we didn't discuss or anything you sort

621
00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:52.519
of want to say to put a
period at the end of this conversation.

622
00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:57.559
Uh, well, it was.
It was great speaking with you, and

623
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:02.039
uh yeah. I just think I
encourage people to, uh to to write,

624
00:44:02.199 --> 00:44:06.480
to tell their stories, and just
know, I think that the product

625
00:44:06.519 --> 00:44:10.679
the writing itself, and you know, create doing doing creative writing and uh

626
00:44:10.960 --> 00:44:15.159
you know, concentrating in a in
a form like screen screenwriting or pilot writing.

627
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:21.480
I think that it's its own reward. And simultaneously, there's a there's

628
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:24.760
a great world out there and Uh, as much as we're you know,

629
00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:30.400
we're there, we still have one
foot in the way things were in feature

630
00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:37.639
films and we were we've actually moved
forward into some this new realm and film

631
00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:43.760
entertainment and it's really and it's it's
an incredible because of the changes the technology

632
00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:47.320
and the changes in lifestyle have been
going on. It's an incredible time for

633
00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:54.119
film entertainment and it's an incredible visual. Visual elements are so important, and

634
00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:59.760
film video and filmed elements on the
on the web in always are so important.

635
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:04.039
So imagining out these stories in script
form, it's just a great thing

636
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:07.320
to do, and it's important to
have fun with it and to you know,

637
00:45:08.239 --> 00:45:13.880
love find out what the shows are
and the and the movies are that

638
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:19.159
you really love, and keep watching
and keep reading and you know, that's

639
00:45:19.239 --> 00:45:23.639
that's about all. That's that's that's
it. No very cool Tom. And

640
00:45:23.639 --> 00:45:28.719
where people find you out online?
Uh, screenwriting masterclass dot com. If

641
00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:32.320
anybody has any questions, I'm Tom. You know him at screenwriting masterclass dot

642
00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:37.960
com. And I also have a
podcast which I started very recently at which

643
00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:43.159
we have the first three episodes are
up. It's called The Process dot I

644
00:45:43.480 --> 00:45:49.760
n k and we're on iTunes and
we're talking about the just like writing,

645
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:53.400
we're talking about the creative process.
And I've had some amazing you know I

646
00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:59.440
had Today I spoke with Billy Finkelstein, who's you know, he's he's a

647
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:04.239
he's on the writing staff of the
spin off to the Good Wife. And

648
00:46:04.280 --> 00:46:10.039
he did the feature he did he
wrote the this uh bad Lieutenant, Bad

649
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:17.400
Lieutenant city of City of New Orleans
that Werner Herzog directed with with Nicholas Cage,

650
00:46:17.400 --> 00:46:21.000
which is a very good film.
He just he did that, So

651
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:23.480
we're talking about that. And he
worked on La Law, and he worked

652
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:29.199
on Cop Rock and he's a good
friend of David Milch and the real interesting

653
00:46:29.239 --> 00:46:31.119
guys working on all these different shows, working on Law and Order and now

654
00:46:31.159 --> 00:46:36.480
he's on this show at CBS.
So talked about you know, running shows

655
00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:40.880
and creating shows, and I've had
I've had. I'm gonna be talking with

656
00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:46.199
beck Smith, who's an indie h
specialist at you know, a talent agency

657
00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:52.119
next week and I'm going to speaking
to someone who works at Upright Citizens Brigade

658
00:46:52.199 --> 00:47:00.360
and stand Up Comic and I'm going
to be and I've had other interesting so

659
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:06.440
the process dot im K please check
it out and any requests for kinds of

660
00:47:06.519 --> 00:47:10.760
guests. I'm open to feedback about
what I'm doing on the show excellent.

661
00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:15.000
I will also link to that in
the show notes. Everyone. You can

662
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:17.840
always find me at Dave Bullis dot
com and Twitter. It's at Dave Underscore

663
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:22.360
Bullets. Tom. I want to
say thank you very much coming on the

664
00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:23.760
show, sir, Thank you very
much. This is a pleasure, and

665
00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:28.280
I hope we'll we'll talk soon and
I'll see in the Warner Herzog class.

666
00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:31.920
Yeah, right exactly where I will. Yeah, it's it's a small world.

667
00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:36.920
But yeah, I know, Tom, I I know we'll our Parsil

668
00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:38.119
cross again very soon. Okay,
thank you, Thank you, Dave.

669
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:43.840
Take care of Tom herebye. I
want to thank Dave so much for doing

670
00:47:43.880 --> 00:47:45.039
such a great job on this episode. If you want to get links to

671
00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:49.199
anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes at

672
00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:52.760
Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv. Forward Slash
three twenty four. Thank you so much

673
00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:57.079
for listening to guys. As always, keep on writing no matter what.

674
00:47:57.320 --> 00:48:00.880
We'll talk to you soon. Thanks
for listening to the full aproof screenwriting podcasts

675
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:08.360
at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv m