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What up? Everybody. Welcome to
another episode of Let's Ask Paul. My

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name is Paul Labernathy, your host, and welcome to the podcast. If

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you've never listened to me before,
you're in for a treat. We're going

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to talk about a specific area of
the National Logical Code that it's caused quite

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a bit of debate on social media, and I'm going to tell you you

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all know my opinion of social media, so it is what it is.

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I won't rehash all that, but
again I always tell people, you know,

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you got to think about the source
of people that are giving you these

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arguments on social media or you know
how the disagreements go and how things can

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turn south really quickly, and everybody
wants to pound their chests. So you

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know, this is why on TikTok, I don't do comments anymore, because

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again, it doesn't matter even when
somebody's wrong, they just will not let

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it die. And it basically taints
your entire educational process when you have people

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mixing in bs and it just doesn't
it just doesn't make well for education on

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those type of platforms where people can
just banter back and forth and then somebody

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strolls into it and they have no
clue what's going on, and they don't

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know who to believe, and now
they get even more confused than they were

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at the beginning. So it's not
to say that we don't have some good

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educators out there on these platforms.
I mean there's some great ones out there,

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but again it's ripe for misinformation,
so I just choose not to get

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into it. There. People know
that if they want questions answered from me,

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that they can go to the Paul
Abernathy dot com, or they can

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go on our waysite, or they
can get our mobile app and ask questions

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through our mobile app. There's this
other ways to do it. The most

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preferred obviously is through Paul Abernathy dot
com. That allows me to really have

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you give me really good details of
your question and then I can you know,

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like the code section, or maybe
you're asking me about a certain cycle

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of the code, be very specific. And if you're working on the twenty

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seventeen, let me know that.
If you want an answer in the twenty

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twenty, let me know that that
type of thing. Okay, so today's

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topic, we're going to be talking
about this posting that people do over on

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social media. There's a gentleman who's
propagating really false information and he puts himself

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out there as an expert, and
he lives down in Florida. And know

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it's not who you think I'm talking
about. This person also lives down Florida,

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happens to live thirty or forty miles
from the better known gentleman that lives

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in Florida. And this guy's on
TikTok and social media and he's really starting

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to spread things that are just not
true. Obviously his opinion and they're not

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accurate. But okay, again,
I that's what's spawn me to put out

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the video. Trust your source,
and really give a lot of thought to

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when people start spitting stuff out,
What is their background, what have they

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done in the system? Have they
asked them to show you any public inputs

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that they've submitted through the years,
Really ask them for stuff rather than just

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believing what they say. So there's
an example here where somebody asks us,

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can you reidentify a let's say,
a blue wire or a blue conductor,

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or a black conductor or a red
conductor in a multiiconductor cable? Can you

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reidentify it as a grounded conductor with
white or gray out of finish, or

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by adding you know, white or
gray tape or something like that to identify

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it as a grounded conductor, even
though it was originally a blue, a

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black, or a red. So
it's quite interesting because I was actually in

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the room. I'm on this code
panel. This is code panel five,

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and this is under two hundred more
specifically two hundred dot six E, and

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I remember the debates, the arguments
and the discussions that were revolving around this,

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and obviously working for a wire and
cable manufacturer, we understood that,

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look, the cable's already made.
Nobody's going to pull new wires in,

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nobody's going to be confused. The
cable's already pre done. It's not like

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a raceway where you can pull conductors
in and out and things like that.

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It's already pre done, pre done
cable assembly. Okay, So that is

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some assurance that it's whatever's there is
going to stay there. So what you

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have is subtle changes that took place
to two hundred dot six e where there

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was an exception in there that allowed
you to reidentify a conductor and a multiiconductor

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cable, and you re identify it
by using distinctive whitter gray markings or other

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equally effective means labeling or whatever you
know, equally effective meaning it's very clear

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what it's being used as. Okay, I think the easiest thing to do

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is use whier gray tape. It's
probably the easiest thing to do, but

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it's not the only way you could
do it. So anyway, I'm going

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to read you two hundred dot six
E. And there's a gentleman out there

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who's propagating, for example, that
this can't you can't do that, and

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he's absolutely wrong because of the way
this code. And I'm going to break

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this down for you. And then
now if he wants to change the code,

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I'm going to tell you then the
easiest thing you can do is submit

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a public input. Right now,
you're going to have to wait until probably

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twenty twenty seven when we start taking
public inputs for the twenty twenty nine edition

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of the NEEC. Hopefully i'll be
retired by then, but anyway, at

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least from the code panels, I'm
getting a little bit up on that.

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So look at two hundred six E
and let's read it and let's dissect this

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thing. All right. It says
E grounded conductors of multi conductor cables.

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So we're talking about creating the grounded
conductor or having a grounded conductor. So

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here's what it says. It says, the insulated grounded conductor in a multiiconductor

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cable shall be identified by a continuous
white or gray outer finish, or by

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three continuous white or gray stripes on
other than green insulation along its entire length.

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Okay, So that's the first sentence. So basically, the grounded conductor

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inside of a multiconductor cable, the
general rule here is that it needs to

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be white, or it needs to
be gray finish continuously in its entire length,

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or you could have three continuous wider
gray stripes when it's tinuous length.

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And of course this can't be done
on insulation that is green. Makes sense,

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sure, So it could be black, blue, red, whatever,

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and have three white or gray stripes
on it and it would be okay to

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use that as a grounded conductor.
Be fine, Okay, So then the

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next sentence goes for conductors that are
four A, a G or larger in

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cables, identification of the grounded conductors
shall be permitted to comply with two hundred

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dot six B. So that is
the rule in two hundred do six B

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that says, okay, well they're
four and larger, then they could be

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continuous white, they could be continuous
gray, they could have the three continuous

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whier gray stripes, just like what
it previously said. But then it has

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an item four. This is B
four, and it says that at the

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time of the installation can be identified
by distinctive white or gray markings at its

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termination, right, and these markings
shall encircle the conductor's insulation. That's at

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the time of installation. So that
would allow me. And by the way,

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just so you know, that is
two hundred dot six B. That

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is not specific to a cable that
is race ways. That is basically that

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is the generic application for the reidentification
if you're going to choose that option for

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the grounded conductor. Okay, that
is not a multiiconductor cable assembly rule.

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So this is why it sends it
back to that saying, you know what,

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if you four and larger, you
can follow those rules. That's fine.

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Now it goes on to say for
multiductor flat cables with conductors that are

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four and larger and external ridge shall
be permitted to identify the grounded conductor.

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Okay, So if you have a
flat cable, let's say, like a

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larger UF cable, then let's say
you could actually put little ridges on it

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and that would identify that is the
grounded conductor. That's fine. So now

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you get down to the question that
people ask. They say, well,

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what about six and smaller? All
right, So then you get down to

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exception number one. So exception number
one is saying conductors within multiiconductor cables shall

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be permitted to be re identified at
their terminations at the time of installation by

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a distinct white or gray marking or
other equally effective means. Now, I

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was in the room when during this
discussion, and a lot of people are

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going to say, well, Paul, this is contradictory here. Why say,

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in the general code language we call
the charging statement of two hundred dot

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six E, it makes a mention
to four and larger that you go to

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two hundred dot six B in which
gives a provision to reidentify. Well,

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if everybody thinks that this exception number
one only applies to four and larger,

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then you would not have had any
need for that statement. Inside of two

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hundred dot six e right, you
wouldn't have any need for that. The

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fact of the matter is it's telling
you, if it's four and larger,

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follow the rules in two hundred dot
six B. But if it's six and

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smaller. This says conductors within multi
conductor cable shop being permitted to be re

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identified at their termination at the time
of installation. So that's going to be

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applicable to six and smaller. Now
there's some people that would argue this and

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say, no, no, no, that's not what it meant. But

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that is what we discussed a code
Panel five. When this happened. No,

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people say, well, why don't
you just get rid of the four

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and larger and that way the exception
applies to all of them. Well,

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we could have done that. The
problem is during the meeting we couldn't all

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agree. Obviously, the wire and
cable manufacturers. We felt, look,

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it shouldn't matter. It's a cable
assembly, it's set, the certain number

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of conductors are in there already.
What does it matter if we take a

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blue conductor and reidentified as a white
Why should it matter? And so in

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some people said no, it can
only apply it to four and larger.

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Well, if that was the case, then you wouldn't need the exception.

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Think about it, folks, It
already makes a reference to four and larger

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in the charging statement. What do
you need the exception for unless it applies

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to six and smaller? Think about
it, Look at the question, Look

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at the actual code language again.
Now, let's say you take out the

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portion about the four and larger,
then exception number one will apply to all

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sizes. Correct, We can agree
to that. Now you put the statement

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about four and larger, it only
makes it's permitted to comply with two hundred

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dot six B. It's a permissive
language. It shall be permitted, so

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to me the exception number one.
And there's people that are going to disagree

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with this, But being the industry
that I'm in, and being that we

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like in this case, the ambiguity
of the way the code is written for

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the age to make an interpretation,
there would be no reason to have exception

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number one. If you only intended
four and larger to be reidentified in a

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multiiconductor cable, why would you even
need exception number one Because you're already getting

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the permission to do that in the
second sentence of two hundred dot six E.

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You're already getting that permission, So
what's the point of the exception then,

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so the reason was under the exception, previously you could reidentify based on

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maintenance and supervision. And then the
argument was, and I believe Phil Simmons

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is the one that submitted the public
input, and we all debated it during

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the meeting, and it's like it, you know, it doesn't make sense

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because the cable assembly is already set
the conductors. It doesn't matter whether they're

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four larger or six gauge or fourteen
gauge. It wouldn't matter in that cable

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assembly. Why because we already do
similar re identification practices in two hundred dot

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seven C one and that typically is
for three ways and full way switch loops

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and reidentification, and those are smaller
conductors fourteen twelve ten, And it doesn't

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matter, it doesn't hurt anything.
We didn't need any special permission, we

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didn't need any maintenance of supervision.
We already get permission to do that.

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So it didn't make sense to have
that in the exception. And then during

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that debate during Code Panel five,
it was discussed that you know what,

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we'll leave the part in there about
four and larger because we don't want to

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get into creating code. We don't
want to take it as a code panel

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and start ripping it apart. It's
still applicable that if it's four and larger,

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you can follow the rules in two
hundred dot six B, which is

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be reidentification. But you also have
the exception number one that says, okay,

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any size of conductor that's in a
multiiconductor cable, you're permitted to reidentify

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it. And for the people that
say no, the exception only applies to

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four and larger. Why in the
hell would you have the second sentence that's

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referencing four and larger. Let that
sink in. Now, if you think

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that's an error from the code panel, then you have your opportunity to submit

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a public input. Not until twenty
seven now, by the way, because

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we're already beyond the public inputs.
In fact, we've already voted on the

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public inputs for the twenty twenty six
that's already been voted. We'll have an

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episode where I go over some of
the results from the voting. But so

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at this point that exception must apply
to all sizes. Otherwise there is no

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point in having the second sentence in
there. Okay, So again going to

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be there's a gentleman that disagrees with
that, and there is one statement that

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he makes that he just goes way
off and says that this rule was never

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intended for grounded conductors, when the
whole damn title of two hundred dot sixty

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E is what grounded conductors of multiiconductor
k That's the whole topic that we're having.

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Okay. So when you look at
the exception, it's very clear.

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It says conductors within multiductor cables shot
be permitted to be re identified at their

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terminations at the time of installation by
distinctive white or gray. What the hell

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are they going to apply to it
has no. You wouldn't apply this to

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a white, it's already white.
You wouldn't apply this to a gray,

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it's already gray. So what are
you applying it to. You're applying it

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to maybe an extra blue one that
you have, or a red one that

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you have, or a black one
that you have that you're not using.

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Okay, in your normal circuit,
you have this extra conductor, You're like,

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dude, hey, I need a
neutral, I need a ground to

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conductor. Boom. If it's a
multiiconductor cable. This allows you to be

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able to reidentify. It makes sense. So this is why I tell you,

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folks, unless you're sitting in on
a code panel, unless you can

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hear the discussions, and I encourage
everybody to come to code panel meetings.

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It's a great experience if you never
had it, and listen to the conversation.

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I was there. I was in
this conversation. There was never an

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intent for the exception number one to
only apply it to four and larger because

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it would make the second sentence pointless. Now people say, well, if

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you wanted this to apply to all
conductors, and what's the point of the

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second sentence, Well, it was
because we just couldn't get consensus to remove

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it. But we did have consensus
on the exception number one and how it

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should be applied. Right. I
was there, I heard it. We

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had the discussion, and that's why
we did not argue it and felt that

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it was acceptable to move it forward. And I can tell you I don't

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see any proposals for the twenty twenty
six to change that or remove that.

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So that's kind of where we ended
it up. Okay, So hopefully that

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clears the air on a multiiconductor cable. Of when it comes to being able

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to reidentify the grounded conductor, Now, when would you do that? Just

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you know, just for craps and
giggles. If I had a twelve to

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three and I had a black,
red, blue, and a white,

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and that was a multi wire brand
circuit, distinctively three circuits that share a

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neutral. Okay, because a multi
wire brand circuit allows me to do that,

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or obviously could be used in a
three phase application. Now, but

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what if I wanted to have a
cable and I needed two separate okay,

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two separate neutrals. Okay, if
that was the case, right where I

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have, for example, multiple circuits, and I'm going to try to meet

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the rules of two hundred dot four
B, which is for multiple circuits.

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And so let's say that I want
to have this separate this separate circuit,

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so you know, like a black
with the white and then maybe a red

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with a white, but I don't
have another white in there, so I

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can take the blue and reidentify it
in that multiconductor cable assembly. Now,

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people ask me, what is a
multi conductor. It's two or more so,

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any cable that has two or more
is a multiconductor cable. Don't overthink

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that that type of scenario. But
we want to remember that two hundred four

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says neutral conductors shall not be used
for more than one brand circuit, okay,

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or it says for more than one
multi wire brand circuit. Right,

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Well, maybe you have a twelve
to three that you want to convert to

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two separate brand circuits and not have
a multi wire brand circuit. Well,

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this is how you would do it. You'd take the blue you reidentified in

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a multiiconductor cable assembly like that.
There is no hazard, there is no

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harm, it's not gonna hurt anything. Conductors can't be pulled out. We

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can't increase the size and cause a
problem. It's already preset from the manufacturer.

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So that was a whole argument that
was made. Now that can't be

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the same for raceways. That's why
you have the sizing and break point from

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six and smaller and four and larger
in two hundred dot six for identification of

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the ground of conductor. But again
for and larger you do have that reidentification

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allowance. But when you get to
multiconductor cables, you're given the permission because

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it is a cable assembly and a
multiconductor that you can reidentify, and it's

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not size specific for that exception.
Okay again people that say, but yes,

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it only applies to four and larger, that is not true. You

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wouldn't need the second sentence if that
was the case. Why would you have

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an exception saying that conductors of a
multi conductor cable can be re identified?

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If the Code General requirement already says
that you can do it four and larger,

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why would you even need the exception. So again, at the end

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of the day, folks, be
careful in your trusted sources. Make sure

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you do your due diligence. Don't
just listen to what people say on social

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media. Use a little common sense
and you two can get to the answers.

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Till next time, folks, Stay
safe, God bless Boom, askballo,

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asking, ask nohing I