What is krak Alakin fellow thermonuclear a efforts. I am Dan fa Valley,
joined by my certified fantabulous co host, mister Grant Hughes. We are not
covering another NBA twenty three twenty four team look ahead today. We are trying
to hold ourselves accountable by going back through our twenty twenty two offseason grades for
the Eastern Conference and we are going to regrade them now. Hopefully this will
be very quickly paced and it'll be a nice little break we can talk about
sort of the entirely get large rather than doing seventy minutes on a singular team
very quickly. Though, Please remember, especially because I'm not reminding people in
the intros as we do these team lookheads, rate, review, Subscribe to
us wherever you get your podcast YouTube subscribe like every video, turn on notification,
share them. Subscribe to us wherever you get your audio podcast Spotify,
Apple ratings and reviews go a long way towards helping us on both platforms and
climbing us up to charts. I cannot reiterate enough too. I know a
lot of people have said they will download a every episode, but they won't
listen to the look Aheads. If it's not their team, listen to them,
share them if you're not going to listen to them. They are a
lot of work for both Grant and myself, even though he will demure there,
so we want to continue to do them. I've talked about the realities
of how bad the numbers normally are on them, but Grant and I do
find them valuable for ourselves, which is why we're able to keep doing them.
I want them to be valuable for you. I know a lot of
you enjoy them, appreciate the hardcours who listen to every single one, but
share them, retweet the promos on them, or if you know you have
a Hornets fan friend, just anything to help get those out there. We
are look they're a bear, and dunked On does them and they do a
great job of them. They're behind a paywall, though, as far as
I know, we're the only podcast that is going this in depth on every
team that is not behind a paywall, and so help us get them out
there and then follow us on all the socials at Hardwood Knox on Twitter and
TikTok at Hardward Underscore Knox on Instagram. Follow Grant on Twitter at gt Underscore
Hughes, follow me on Twitter at Dan fa Valley fav Alle. Buy our
merch don't link to that's in the podcast and YouTube description. If you're looking
to support the show, and I believe that I'm not free, Oh,
you can also support the show just by joining Discord. Grant and I are
not as active, are not as active in there right now. I am
reading, I am responding when I can, But the priority is getting these
team lookheads out at the moment. And we have a great community that does
a good job carrying the conversation on without us. That is actually the end.
And so now I turn it over to Grant. How the heck are
you doing? So ready to be wrong, Dan, So ready to look
back at how foolish we were or prescient, depending we haven't really gone ahead
and looked at these So some of this will be There will be some moments
where the questions we will ask each other is what on earth were we thinking?
So I'm definitely excited for accountability and miya culpas maya culpa's and all that
kind of stuff. Yeah, this is probably gonna be a humbling experience,
I would imagine because we've never done. Like, we're pretty good at acknowledging
when we're wrong, but this is the first time we're actually going through last
year's grades and we've already done the teams that we missed on with their win
totals and whatnot. So that was some accountability, but this is more like,
oh, we said that about I'm very worried about when we get to
the Knicks. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, I mean, have you
ever thought that maybe we're a little too willing to admit how little we know?
Do you think that maybe hurts the brand? Is that why we haven't
like popped? Well, I feel like the alternative that seems to be very
successful, whether it's politics or sports talk, is to dig in and see
like no, no, I was dead right, or just ignore facts and
like that kind of thing. But that that really is not what we do
here, which and that'll be the brand leading into the twenty three twenty four
season as we're always right, yeah, refusal to accept the accountability no,
I mean in seriousness. So this is one value to force you to think
about, like where you're thinking went wrong in the past, and hopefully that
it makes you a better evaluator going forward, we'll see. But but again,
this is going to be interesting. I am very excited to do this
because I never remember what my reasoning was or rarely do, like if we're
talking about over a year ago, that we're gonna look at what we thought
of each East team's off season, So it'll be I'm curious to see how
much our evaluations, uh, you know, with a year of data deviate
from what we thought. So that'll be cool. Are we are we ready
to get into this. We're gonna go by division and do the Eastern Conference
and hopefully not spend too long on each team, but I think there will
be some teams that require some sure thorough relitigation. Yeah, sure, I'm
not ready, but we're going to start anyway with the Atlanta Hawks, so
as a refresher for both us and the Listener. Their main offseason moves last
summer were the Dejante Murray trade, so just briefly, Murray and Jacque Landale
in for Danielle Gallinari, who was subsequently waived. Charlotte's twenty three first which
had some protections on it top sixteen through twenty four, top fourteen, and
twenty five Atlanta or there must be San Antonio's twenty five first rounder unprotected uh
swap rights in twenty six and a twenty seven unprotected first from the Spurs.
So Dejan ta Murray in uh for, I'm sorry, I had it wrong.
You gotta jump in and correct me. Dan, I was trying to
get Dejon ta Murray and all the Spurs picks to the Hawks. Those Hawks
picks go out. I'm trying to make sure that were able to hit that.
They traded Mo Harkless for Vi Craci. So you're you're, you're down
and you're out in the weeds. I'm I'm sucking up. Who's trading picks
for John Murray? Uh Aj Griffin was the number sixteen pick, and then
the other one I wanted to hit was the Kevin Hurder trade to the Kings
for Mo Harkless justin holiday and a twenty four first With lotto protection, it
eventually can turn into twenty six second. Although did that convey I can't even
remember now. It must have conveyed because it was lottery protected, or that's
in twenty four never mind, not gonna get has not conveyed yet. There
was a three point seven million dollars traded, player exception generated with this transaction.
But most mostly this was the Hawks shedding money to try to duct the
tax, despite swearing up and down that that's not the kind of operation they
run. Anything I missed there before we get to what we gave the Hawks
last year. No, just that they traded Mohrkless for a big Creachi.
But that happened after our grades. We both game would be minus and well,
do you remember what your logic was on that? There were a couple
points I remember kind of focusing on. I remember that I think we were
collectively higher on the Dejante Murray trade than consensus. We were okay with the
price that they paid, and I think now, even knowing last season how
he didn't have the intended defensive impact, I'm still okay with the trade because
of the extension they signed him too. I'm not okay with the Kevin Hurder
trade because when you look at yes, their offense under Quinn Snyder was able
to be thermonuclear af at points, like when you look at their shot profile,
they really could have used Kevin Hurder even with Bogdan Madanovitch still there.
That's still not a trade that I love and like having a King's pick isn't
sexy anymore, Like, okay, you have a lot of we protected twenty
twenty four kings pick, congratulations, that's not really worth anything. So I
think I would stick with my B minus. I don't know where you ended
up with it, but I would probably. I might even like, do
we lower it to a C plus just to continue to ding them? But
again, you extended de Jante Murray, I think on a pretty team friendly
contract. Yeah, I think if I deviated, it would be like a
you know, a frack, a marginal move up or down. I think
I'll just stay with it too. It would be interesting. I think we
both would be quite a bit lower on this if there were no extension,
because that was pretty at the time that seemed highly improbable that the Hawks were
going to be able to extend Murray and avoid him hitting free agency. So
to get that I think at least keeps it out a B minus for me,
and I think I think that's fair to just kind of stick with it
there, So hey, good for us. By the way, I would
also say what helps is that the Jonte Murray like process and then fit probably
isn't as great like it was cleaner on offense, even though the minutes without
Trey were a mess. What really might help them is Okay, let's say
you want to regrade them lower. For that Aj Griffin at number six,
team looks looks like a maybe not a home run, but a triple double,
triple sure, And so I think that helps them a ton too.
Also, last thing, it's difficult to evaluate the Hawks last year because they
change coaches midstream again, and I suspect that. I'm I'm picking the Hawks
to win quite a few more games this year than last coming in so I
don't know, you can you do you credit them for hiring Quinn Snyder like
eight months or whatever it was after we gave these grades. I don't have
off season stuff though, So why didn't they make that decision over the off
season? Why didn't they change their front office? But maybe we should do.
The other thing is maybe we probably should go lower just because they clearly
but like, how do you can you ding them for decisions not made like
I'm more sort of just like why did they just let the lawn right leave?
Is something that I could grade them lower? Four? I'm sticking with
a B minus though, because I think the Dejeantre Murray outcome was really great,
and like the contract, and then I really like a J. Griffin,
even if ultimately he's only trade fodder for them. That's fine. We're
gonna change plenty of these, so we can start out with a we made
no mistakes, speaking of a team that might warrant some changes. We move
on to the Charlotte Hornets, and they drafted Mark Williams at number fifteen.
They traded number thirteen, so Jalen Durhan to the Knicks for Denver's twenty twenty
three first rounder. It was Lotto protected through twenty twenty five. That obviously
did not matter three twenty twenty three second rounders, so that's like a that's
a transaction we have to revisit, I would think, But I think Mark
Williams kind of helps offset it a little bit. They bryce McGowan's they got
that's that's whatever. They fired James Brego, and then they thought they had
Kenny Atkinson when he backed out, so they signed Steve Clifford do a three
year contract. He has a twenty twenty four twenty twenty five team options.
So this is the last guarantee year of his deal already, and then they
signed Cody martinto a four year, thirty one point six million dollars deal,
the final year of which is non guaranteed. He will never make more than
eight point seven million dollars. Notable they notable exits Miles Bridges, felony,
domestic violence, ended up leading no contest, doesn't play for the team signed
the qualifying offer this summer. I think those are all the high nose.
Did I forget anything here? Oh? I'm just sitting here struggling trying to
unpack the during trade and what I think of it. That we should probably
start with that, right, Like, I mean, there's there are so
many things that were weird about this offseason. We gave him, we both
gave him, what do we do? A D plus across the board for
both of us last year, And I think the biggest reason for that is
I do believe I'm higher on Mark Williams now than I was then. But
the bigger thing was you traded a lottery pick for first round pick that was
never going to be a lottery pick, you know what I mean? Like
that was just a that felt like disastrous decision making by the organization, and
again trying struggling to remember, was the logic, We're fine with Williams at
fifteen, and we think it's worth it to get this fake first because we're
okay moving down for a center we like as much as during I can't remember
if that was the logic of it, like let's let's pick up some assets,
you know, middling as they may be, because we think Duran and
Williams are similar. Was that part of it, Yeah, I'm sure,
But I thought Duran had just a better defensive ceiling when sort of looking at
his mobility. I didn't trust Mark Williams touch, but just and I don't
know if this matters, but that pick turned into Nick Smith Junior. I
don't know if that changes, like the way that you were grade this at
all. I think either won't be a change. I'm still fine with the
Cody Martin contract. I know he was injured last year. I think Steve
Clifford is just sort of like, yeah, the optics of whipping on Kenny
Atkinson aren't great, but like he they were a really good defense to close
the season. They were like sixth or whatever in points a lot per possession.
After the trade deadline, so I think that was sort of fine.
I'm not like I might actually I might give them a D just because I
really like Mark Williams, and so their calculation on Mark Williams was right,
where maybe you're still higher on Jail and Durhan, but he's at least in
the same conversation. I still think that trade is inexplicable, though it is
because like, why would you trade a lottery pick for a first round pick
that will never become a lottery pick? Even I don't care how many like
least favorable seconds were attached to it, right, I think I'm gonna stay
at a D D plus. I just like nothing nothing like what am my
other unless unless I'm like, well, the Cody Martin signing looks even better
now, which it doesn't because he was just hurt, So I can't.
I'm not gonna change anything based on that. There's I don't I'm not finding
other than Williams, I guess, although I'm not one hundred percent sold on
Williams. I mean, I think he's I think he's going to be a
decent starter maybe, but he's a I just I'm D plus sounds good to
me. I'll actually stick with the D plus two because you're right like,
I can't just reward them for getting the Mark Williams pick, right like,
because I didn't demerit them, because the part of our conversation was not Mark
Williams is gonna suck and Joe and Durn's gonna be great. Know enough about
that. We didn't have enough information on these players at that point. So
yeah, I'm gonna stick with the D plus two. That was not a
batter off season for them. I will say, though, this side of
the Kenny Atkinson fiasco, having Steve Clifford, I think looks like an even
better sort of contingency, even if it was forced, and that might be
the only thing that like better. I'm still fine with the Cody Martin contract.
That's still very useful gap filler player when he's healthy, all right,
So that moves us in this Division two, the Miami Heat, unless I'm
watching the alphabet, which would have been known to do. Uh. Just
I'll just go through it here. Drafted Nikola Yovic at twenty seven. UH
signed Caleb Martin to a three year, twenty point four million dollar deal.
Boy, Uh, this grade's going up. UH signed Aldipo for two years
eighteen point two player option. On the second of that, signed Wayne Deadman.
Uh, signed Marcus Garrett, Darius Days, a bunch of less significant
signings A PJ. Tucker out. What else did I miss? That was
pretty much? This happened after the grading, but I think it matters.
They did resagn Udonis Haslam how Fata complict, although not anymore. Uh Yeah,
So I had this as a Oh wow, a C minus. You
were at a B minus. I think I've got to move it up just
because of Caleb Martin. At The question is is how high? How much
higher so you? This is this is the first one we've deviated by a
full letter grade on here, or deviated at all. Do you remember what
you were most high on or that differed from me? I certainly can't.
I probably ding them. I guarantee my criticism was based mostly on losing Tucker.
Yeah, I'm sure mine was as well. I really liked the Caleb
Martin contracts, and I also liked the Victor Oladipo and de Way Deadman contracts,
which just proves that I don't know what the hell that I'm I'm talking
about. But in Oladipo's defense, like he got injured again, and so
it was just like, so I notched it up to a B because the
Cala Martin contract is just one of the best in the NBA right now.
But you still like and you couldn't have kept the way it went because they
only had non bird rights on Tucker. You couldn't have kept both Caleb Martin
and PJ. Tucker. I don't really know what to make of that,
the steps they could have taken to have done so, but what would have
been like the nuclear route to go there? Well, and if you frame
it that way, they kept the right guy if it was if it was
one or the other, keeping Martin. I think Martin mattered so much in
that playoff run. Yeah, I gotta go. You went up from be
minus to a B. I gotta go. I gotta make a huge jump
here. I think in hindsight just really just on the strength of Martin,
because and Yovich maybe at twenty seven, I don't think we've seen nearly enough
to really say if that's as the kind of steel it looks like it.
Maybe, so there's I guess if we do a two years on revisit on
this which we definitely want. There's room for this to get higher. If
Yovich really pops, I'm going, well, unless you want to, I
don't think I can't remember what happened yesterday. Two years is pushing it,
I guess I gotta go. I'm gonna go. I can't go B plus
because you can't. I'll go all the way to B which is a big
jump from A C minus. So I'll join you in the B range there
for the heat. I think we're gonna be higher. You really have to
like where You're just watching a lot of Feeba and have decided that Nikola Yovich
is either gonna push the Damian Littleer trade package over the top or he's just
going to be like the front core partner of the future for BAM at a
bio. I don't know why else you would grade it, because B plus
is just that's very close to an ay. That's oh, they really owed
it. You shouldn't get there at all. I don't know if there even
is a pathway again Jovic being a star. I suppose we will now move
on to the Orlando Magic Our Next in the alphabet, they drafted Palaban Caro
at number one. There was some debate there, so that matters. They
drafted Caleb Houston at number thirty two and he wound up playing a good,
great deal for them. They signed Gary Harris to a two year, twenty
six million dollar deal. They signed mo Obama to a two year twenty point
six million dollar deal. They signed Bobo to a two year, four point
four million dollar deal. They signed Kevon Harris to a two way contract.
He ended up playing for them. They lost Robin Lopez. He went to
the Calves. Am I missing anything there? Did anything happen after we graded
them? I think he got it all there. Let's gope our original grades
there then where I gave Orlando An a minus, you gave them a B
plus. So we were already pretty high on their off season. Did anything
happen that would that would change it? I mean, I'm trying it certainly
doesn't get worse for me because bank Harro was pretty clearly the you know,
like this was gonna be Jabari Smith Junior, who I think we both are
still kind of excited about. But I think between him and bank Harrow,
it's like, well, the magic made the right pick there, and this
isn't a case where this isn't a Woman Yama situation where you didn't even really
make a pick. It just the pick made itself. I think bank Carro
clearly was you know, one of more than you know, a handful options
that they could have realistically picked. And as I remember, it was like
a little bit of a surprise that they picked him right because or at least
they kept it pretty tight because there was some doubt what you know, right
up to the selection. Knowing us, I bet we also really liked the
non guarantees that they put on the second year of a lot of these deals.
Gary Harris, Mobamba and Bull Bull. I think I think I'm staying
I think I'm staying B plus. Maybe I might go you know, I'm
gonna go a minus because they I mean, they've stayed flexible, they didn't
commit any bad money, and they made the right pick at number one.
So I'm gonna go up to a minus from my bus I went up to
an A just because you made the right pick at number one when it wasn't
like it was a question like that was a real debate that was happening,
and it's just clear and we haven't seen Chet Holmgren play yet of course,
but just what Palo Bank Kara can do on offense with the ball in his
hands. I think, justin Shore's you made the right pick there. The
Gary Harris deal ends up being a home run because they had sort of just
you know, the one year language with the Mobamba. That doesn't matter that
they just sort of traded him away. And I also, like, you
know, getting Harris on the two way contract ends up playing a role for
you. Caleb Houston, a nice little like chaos player for them, plays
a role for them this past year. And like those were guys that contributed
to what were was a defense, particularly Houston that ended up being really good
this past year. And so it wasn't a perfect offseason, but like for
where they were in their development and not even knowing what Palo Bank Carol was
at the time, it seems like they were able to preserve their flexibility while
getting better and you have to commend them for that. The big thing is
just you ended up with Paolo at number one when there was to reiterate just
a real debate there. I think who should go number one? That takes
us to the Washington Wizards, last team of this division. They drafted Johnny
Davis At number ten. They signed Bradley Bill to a five year, two
hundred and fifty one million dollar contract with a fifteen percent trade kicker, a
no trade clause, the only one of its kind in existence, and a
player option because why not for his age thirty three or no they signed in
the last year of that deal, signed along right, UH signed Anthony Gill.
I guess right is clearly the more significant of those two years. Sixteen
million got Will Barton and Monte Morris for a smith and KCP who signed Taj
Gibson to one year deal. I'm trying to see anything else. They lost
Howel Netto and Thomas Bryant to free agency. This Dan earned from I'm looking
out. You gave them a D plus. I gave them a D.
I am moving mine without his citation to a flat F. There are no
F minuses unless you want to give him one, but I just didn't minus
for me. I'll join you at the F minus then if if we're rulling
to go down there, I'm willing to join you. How many minuses like
three, four, the most, the most, all the minuses, although
not too because then that's positive rights. They don't even get a saving grace
for signing Jordan Goodwin in September, because they ended up just including him in
the Bradley Beal trade. So it's just like you fucked up, Like this
was a you know, we could talk about how do you grade them,
about the roads not traveled. This was something we talked about at the time.
The contract was going to be a disaster, and it turned into a
disaster, probably sooner than a lot of us thought because it Bradley Beal was
still good, but you were put in a situation where he didn't just dictate
where he went, but for how much he went for. And that's a
real issue. You could have started over that that off season, and now
you're at a point where you had to change the front office regime. And
this again, this is all stuff you could have understood. You didn't need
any more information on the core of this roster. You just you didn't,
And like, I know, we I think I probably gave him a deep
plus two because I was like, oh, I kind of liked the Casey
P. Tree for both sides. But Will Barton was done just cooked.
Wizards fans felt like they ended up hating Monte Morris just because he claimed they
didn't play with enough pace, but like he wasn't playing with enough pace,
So it's just this is an F minus. You delayed a decision that should
have been made years ago and you just continue And it was it wasn't even
just oh we want to avoid the full on rebuild, it's how can we
make this as shitty as possible, Like let's get Brady deal everything, and
then he comes out and says I didn't really have any other options, and
then you have tend the answs, the owner commending like he probably dislocated his
shoulder, patting himself on the back for giving out the no trade clause,
only then pivot away from it a year later. Just the probably the worst
we haven't been through all this, but just without really like had to be
the worst off season in the NBA, and there won't. There won't be
a work because you check all the boxes. Bad lottery pick right, horrible
signing of your own guy, and then a really bad trade where you give
up a guy who goes and starts and really matters for the title winner,
Like what is KCP worth at the deadline? Like this is the problem.
It's like he wouldn't have been this same player on the Wizards, but like
what's called Bill pope Worth today, Like it's definitely more than Will Barton and
Monte more like it's a it's a joke. So yeah, they and then
you get an immediate, you know, not immediate but basically as quickly as
possible, full regime change. Like that, you've you've hit every hallmark of
you have royally just ruined your off season. So uh, I don't think
we're gonna get any worst off seasons than that. To put a bow on
on this division and this team there, I mean, there could be there's
a team that I think might give them a run for their money based on
how played out, But we won't get from yet because we're on to the
Atlantic Division and the Boston Celtics their big their biggest move was they traded Daniel
Pie, Aaron E Smith, Malik fitz Nick Stawskis, Jwan Morgan and a
twenty twenty three first rounder for Malcolm Brogden, who ended up he was in
the running for or he won six Man of the Year, right Manuel quickly
not win it. He won six Man of the Year. They signed an
Eil Gallinard too, a two year thirteen point three million dollar deal. He
then tours ACL and did not play for them. UH signed Luke Cornette to
a two year, four point five million dollar deal. They signed Sam Howsard
with a three year, five point seven million dollar deal team option at the
end, and they also, after we provided their grade, they signed Blake
Griffin. I don't think there was any other notables that I'm missing there.
Did you ag threw real quick? Blake Griffin is the only one that did
you say they resigned Howser? Yeah, that's on there. Yeah, no,
you got it. So we both gave them an A. Wow,
we both gave them an A. Would you change that at all in retrospect?
I mean the knock would be the Emyodoka stuff, which I don't know
how you felt happened. I'm assuming after right, because we just not even
mentioned our notes that. Yah, I think it had to have. But
I don't know, like what you do with that because it's not like a
I mean, I guess it's a transaction if you get rid of your coach,
but it's not kind of the typical type of thing we would evaluate here.
And I think mainly we probably well, I'm sure we love the Gallo
signing for you know, the Mini MLI, and I'm sure we were both
pretty on board with the Brogden deal, and I think in both cases,
I you know, certainly the Brogden trade worked out and the Gallow move was
good until it wasn't, and that was sort of out of their control when
he got hurt. So yeah, I think I'm not I'm not gonna move
off the A. I don't think. I just I don't know how to
grapples over to give that both of us gave them an A. We must
have felt like this is this puts them over the top. Basically, I
guess maybe obviously it didn't, but like, I just don't gotta we gotta
move it down, I think, right, because I don't also don't know
how to the Gallow injury is just you know, he's an injury prone player.
But I like the Mini Emily, like I liked that swing. And
I don't know what to do about the email Udoka stuff because it's did they
hit like because I'm not. I don't think Joe Massoula was necessarily the wrong
guy to put in charge. It's just when you put him in charge,
he tried to make material changes to a team that like thought it had forged
its identity and then there's like some change there and they didn't have as much
time to bring it together. And do you criticize them for sort of like
being too delicate with the Udoka decision where it's he suspended, we're not going
to get rid of him until we absolutely know that we can get rid of
him. I don't. And then how long did the investigation the relationship take?
I just you know, was the messaging coming out strong enough to make
people understand what was going on behind the heeds? I don't. I honestly,
I don't know how to grade that. I'm not saying they put the
wrong guy in charge. I'm not even saying they could have made that decision
sooner, but it does feel like they could have handled that situation better where
it was, there was this you left the team in lurch I think for
too long. And I know there's probably you're a lawyer, there's probably legality
issues by saying well, we're going to get rid of Emayudoka for this right
now, and is there enough cause to do that? But you did keep
your not just a title contender, you were a title finalist the year before
you left, and I like the core identity of the team in Lurch,
the direction in lurch, I think for too long, I'm trying to like,
you know, the Gallow thing we can definitely say was out of their
hands. The Udoka one is such a gray area because like, well,
what kind of culture are you promoting? And how prepared were you for this?
Should you? Should you have acted sooner? Did you have the ability
to? I just don't know what to do with it. I'm gonna go
from an A to an A minus just because like, I don't know,
that's not significant, but I feel like I need to acknowledge, like,
yes, in some respects, this was a controllable outcome, I guess,
And just it's not as simple anymore as oh, they got Brogden for you
know, stuff they didn't ultimately need, and Gallo was a great saying there's
just just to illustrate that this got a little messier than it seemed a year
ago. I'll go away minus as well. We're too on the same Patren
now. I think you could go lower if you decide, well, you
look at what Brogden was able to do, and then even what Gallo would
have been if he was healthy. That did not inject nearly enough playmaking into
their rotation for what they needed. So I think you could probably go to
like a B plus or something if you really wanted to. Yeah, all
right, that takes us to the Brooklyn Nets. Notable moves here. Got
Royce O'Neil from the Jazz. As the Jazz began their firesale, they for
twenty twenty three first, which is like the lesser of X, Y and
Z. Houston, Philadelphia, Brooklyn UH kess Lairedwards had his team option decline.
Then they signed him to a two year deal. He's subsequently he's on
the King's now right. They dealt in mid season, UH signed Nick Claxton
to a two year, seventeen point three million dollar deal. Holy smokes minimum.
Do you see my grade going up? Uh? Patty Mills opted out,
resigned thirteen point three million for two years, signed Edmund Sumner two years,
four point two h Allondis Williams for the two way. Andre Drummond gone
go, Dragic gone, LaMarcus Aldris Blake Griffin left, David Duke Junior gone.
Did I miss anything there? No? I don't think he did nothing.
Had Kevin Durant trade demand right in the off season, probably after we
did this right in the whole like Kyrie stuff. So because we both gave
him initially a grade, this was the team I thought could give Washington to
run first body because I gave him a deep plus. You gave him a
C minus. So we were both pretty low. I don't they ended up
being really good until like the whole Kyrie Irving trade, Toman Ken Durant injury,
and so it's I don't know how to grade that. I do think
to go after Royce O'Neil and just give up a first round pick for Royce
O'Neil when you have just sort of your your roster, your direction is suspended,
in complete mystery, knowing what's happening with Kyrie NKD. There's something weird
there. And then they fired Steve Nash, like what was it like seven
games in this I think the number in my head of seven games. Yeah,
So why wasn't that decision made, especially when Kevin Durant gave you the
ultimatum, I'm gonna give them an F for it. Well, I'm even
F plus because the Nick Claxton contract is a home run I just given where
the team ended up heading, like why, like you should have poured it
down sooner, I guess because you still got good value for the Kevin Durant
trade, so holding on to him didn't do anything. Did you build up
Kyrie's value by waiting? That could be the argument to be made, but
like, how did you not make like the the Steve Nash's decision should have
been made in the off season, hands down? And I also think just
like why did you let it get to a point if you were never going
to extend Kyrie or like wanted to give him a long earth and be like
why did you hold on to him then? And like, Okay, you
were really good? Like where they they had that stretch they like twenty one
and two or something like whatever, it was, like you still Kevin Durrett
requested a trade and the end again, so he went from resending his trade
request to requesting a trade again. It's just but I guess they're set up,
Like you look at the assets they have. I don't know what to
do here? Do I stick with the D plus? Like I don't know
what to do here. I'm really struggling because I don't because because that had
that exact same thought of, well, the position they're in now is like
pretty good because they have more young talent than they used to. They've got
Clackson on that that Clackson deal is absurd, Like that's I can't you look
at it one of two ways. Now they're already gonna have to pay him
again. Yeah, short, sure, but I mean just like dollar for
talent and production, that's I'm in an absolute steal. But yeah, like,
how do you how do you evaluate the chaos that came really after we
gave this grade, and then how do you weigh that against the nets are
in like a pretty good position because ultimately they did well and what they got
for Durant and like did decently and what they got for Irving. I don't
know how. I think probably I'm gonna move it down because it's not like
all the chaos that came roughly a month or a few weeks after this was
like totally unforeseeable. But I also understand how they felt like we gotta try
to keep this together because if we have everybody here were a contender. So
I'm gonna go I'm just gonna take it down to like a D just a
flat D. It would I mean, this is this is one of the
hardest teams to evaluate because there are so many like, at what point do
you ding them for not doing stuff? When should they have known they needed
to blow it up? I don't know. There's like too many unknown variables
here, but I'm moving down just because at least some of it. I
think I'm penalizing them because you it was pretty clear Nashal is not the coach
for this team. It was pretty clear that Irving was going to do something
that Irving always does everywhere. So maybe getting out get out from under this
sooner was the play. I don't know. I don't feel good about this
regrade, but I didn't feel good about the grade last year, so that
stays consistent. I'll stick with a D plus. Then I think the nash
decision should have been made and so are you dating for that? But some
of their moves. We probably liked the Nick Claxton deal, but that looks
better the right on Neil deal ended up being fine. The real argument comes
down to whether if actually by not tearing it down when Kevin Durant requested a
trade, did they actually help themselves, because would they have gotten less for
Kyrie Irving over the off season they did in the middle of the year.
I think that's something that's fair to relitigate, so I'll stick with the D
plus. Also, in addendum, they did not lose David Duke Jr.
They did this offseason. He ended up coming back to them. That happened
after our initial grading. I'll stick with a D plus like you, though
I don't feel great about it. Now we move on. Oh man,
let me just get ready. Let me let me just get ready mentally prepare
for this. We are on to the New York Knicks. They traded number
eleven, which was Ushman Jang to ok See for Denvo's Lotto protected pick in
twenty twenty three, which did not stay with them. Detroit's twenty twenty three
first it's protected with loosening protections through two thousand and twenty seven, it gets
down to top nine protection them, and then Washington's twenty twenty three first that's
Lotto protected through two, twenty four top ten and twenty five top eight in
twenty six. They then acquired jail and During the number thirteen pick from Charlotte
for that Denver twenty twenty three Lotto protected first and three second rounders. They
then traded jail and During number thirteen and Kemba Walker to Detroit for Milwaukee's two
and twenty five first round pick top five protection. On that, I believe
you've traded Nerland's Noel Alec Burkes six million dollars in cash, a twenty twenty
three second round pick, and a twenty twenty six second round pick two the
Pistons. Basically that was just a straight salary dump. They then signed Jalen
Brunson to a four year, one hundred and four million dollars deal. It
started at twenty seven point seven million, and it isn't it goes into decline.
The final year is a player option, which will be his twenty age
twenty nine season. They signed as A Hartenstein to a two year, seventeen
million dollars deal. We both loved that. To frame that in totality,
and I believe I had this right. They used the number eleven pick six
second rounders, five of which were basically real seconds, so it will say
five real seconds and six million dollars in cash to offload three expiring deals,
scoop up three conditional first rounders, and get Jalen Brunson and Isaiah Hartenstein.
They also signed Mitchell Robertson to a four year, sixty million dollars deal that
is also on a declining scale. And they signed Jericho Sims to a three
year, five point seven million dollar deal. And that is really the only
other notables I have Taj Gibson did leave. Is there anything else that I've
missed postage? And that was an exhaustive It was exhaustive and exhausting Knicks offseason
that you I think have hit all the big elements of our grades at the
time. I gave them a C minus and you also gave him a C
minus. Is a terrible podcast that you were so on the same pang?
How do you so? I want to make it clear the criticism we had
of this team was not the Jail and Brunson contract, which we both agreed
was fine, too good and now might be one of the best contracts in
the league. So we still missed on it, but it was the mode
of operations that the Knicks went through to get Jail and Brunson and everything taking
a step back now though, And I'll just go first here because it's me.
I'll just hijack this conversation. No, I've go ahead. I love
Ushman Jang, and I think that we are going to look back on this
year and be like, wow, because he was injured last year, the
Thunder just have Usman Jang two like they have ched Home Grinn and Jail Williams
and Sga and Josh Giddy float around and Ushman Jang too. That's happening.
With that said, the Knicks never would have taken Usmanjang because that is not
who the Knicks are. I will give them a slight demerit for that,
because I think this front office should think in those terms, like sometimes it's
hey, let's swing on the high upside position list, huge ash wing,
huge ash wing, and they've only ever really done that with like Kevin Knox,
and that wasn't really that didn't turn out so well. And I don't
think he was considered. He was wildly inefficient that summer league. But I
don't know how you criticize like the rest of their offseason and its totality,
because the Isaiah Hartenstein signing, even if he wanted them to use him differently,
still looks pretty good. And Jalen Brunson looks he contended for an All
NBA spot, probably should have been an All Star. If we go back
and talk about that, I think what you could say is, did they
really need to like all the steps they took to off low expiring contracts,
it felt it still feels a little rich, which is why I'm going to
give them an A minus rather than a flat A or an A plus.
But like this ended up being like even the Mitchell Robinson deal looks good,
like not just fine, but good. So you could probably even talk me
into an A if you want to. But I'm moving it up to an
A minus here, So I was had you thrown it to me, I
was going to throw it back to you with the question of Dan, why
is this not an A? Just control of the discussion anyway, because I
as I'm looking at it, I'm trying to think, like, how do
I avoid this being an A because obviously they were dead right on Brunson and
they got him for less, way less than he would get like if he
were a free agent right now, we'd be talking Van Vleet money for more
years probably, so like ridiculous value there. And I'm not as high on
Jang as you are just because like I don't feel like I know enough yet.
Hater. I'm a hater. I hate him so much. I do
you think like we don't get to take the victory lap on the Center signings
because I know, at least for me, I was like, the Robinson
signs terrible, the Hardenstein one is great. They offset each other. It
turned out to really kind of be the opposite because Robinson just had played really
well and mattered in the playoffs and exceeded the value of that deal, and
Hardenstein didn't have as great a year, although still for that low amount of
money, pretty darn good backup Center, I'm gonna just go flat a And
what sold me on it is the way that you framed it out on the
outline here, it's eleven some bullshit seconds that nobody cares about six million to
get off bad money, get three conditional first. I guess maybe we should
be a little more like nuanced and talking about those conditional first that they got,
like how how valuable are they are they going to convey what'll they be
worth? But then to do that and get brunts in and Hardenstein basically with
the money you cleared, like that's pretty darn good. So here's the other
thing too, and it's why I'm going to move it up to an A.
Not well, the other thing that was not in here is the RJ
Barrett extension. I forgot about that. Yeah, So I don't, like,
I don't really know how that looks. I'm still kind of indifferent to
it. I believe in RJ, but like around six figures or RJ Barrett
is going to be like right now, that feels like an awful lot of
money for a team that I don't think is built to allow him to improve
to the degree that they would want. Like it's just with Julius Randall and
Jalen brunts In and then just still not really enough shooting. So I don't
really know how to view that, which is part of the reason why I
can't give them a perfect grade. But I could also give them an A
because they didn't make the Donovan Mitchell trade right, and I think that ended
up being the right decision because of where they were at Now. You could
argue, look at how good Bruntson was as they made that trade, they
could have been better. So there's a bunch of different ways to look at
it. But I think for where they were at the Calves, given who
they had, where they were headed, Yes, you go all in on
Donovan Mitchell. For the price that Cleveland paid, the nick should not have
matched that. Now, the flip side to the flip side is did the
Knicks actively make that decision not the trade for Docu Mitchell or is it really
because Utah just decided whatever they're doing with RJ. Barrett, like we're over
this, We're going to move on. So I'm gonna stick with the A
minus. I don't think it was a perfect offseason, and some of it
I don't know how deliberate. Everything all the actual transactions that was all deliberate,
but the RJ. Barrett extension and then like the process of the Doco
Mitchell trade talks and even just the salary dumps a little bit it felt like
shouldn't have cost so much, But it's you have one of the best contracts
in the league now in Jail and Brunson, and that was not even people
who thought the deal was fine did not frame it in that way. Yeah,
you said process like two sentences ago. So let's talk about the Sixers
there the next team alphabetically, this is a fascinating offseason in hindsight now,
so traded the rights number twenty three, which was David Roddy and Danny Green,
to the Grizzlies for d Anthony Melton for two years sixteen million left on
his deal, which I'm sure we were just in love with at the time.
Signed Daniel House to a two year eight point four million dollars deal with
a player option for twenty three twenty four. PJ Tucker three years thirty three.
It's the full mid level got a player option for twenty four twenty five.
James Harden opted out and signed a two year, sixty eight point six
million dollars deal significantly below market to facilitate the aforementioned signings of House and Tucker.
The Sixers were investigated for tampering and capstir convention. They were fined for
that. They were not fined, however, for promising James Harden a bigger
deal were he to opt out this offseason, which I don't care what anybody
says. I'm sure that's why he called Darryl Morial liar. I have anything
to do with anything else, But so, I don't know how to evaluate
that small, small time Stuff signed Travelle and Queen to a two year,
three point six million dollars deal. Michael Foster tu an exhibit ten two million
dollars option they picked up to keep shake Milton DeAndre Jordan out, Paul millsapp
also out. What else did I miss from the Sixers? We gotta hit
the items, but there was more I think. Yeah, So they ended
up signing Mantras Harold right for some reason, and then the other one that's
kind of big. They waved not only Charles Bassey but Isaiah. Joe went
on to have himself a season yes in Okay see, and for a team
that you just you need all the shooting you can get around Joe Ellen Bead
and James Harden, that was a very Maybe he never would have cracked the
rotation Philly, but that's one of those where it's no, that doesn't that's
not great. Bob, that's not great, Daryl, that's not great.
We gave the Sixers an a both of us, which looking back, if
if you didn't know what happened over the last thirteen months, Yeah, great
signings. PJ. Tucker, Daniel House awesome, D'Anthony Mountain is gonna be
great. Hardened at a discount, and who cares what happens after in the
context of what happened throughout the season. What Like, I think the Daniel
House contract ended up being just sort of it's not gonna hurt them, but
it was just kind of a he didn't work out for them. PK.
Tucker was so low volume on offense that it felt like it became damaging at
times. But like, even knowing what's happening with the James Harden stuff now,
the fact that they didn't get into him for a lot of money or
a bunch of years is probably a good thing. That's that is the most
fascinating part about this because like I guess, yeah, I mean, but
it also feels like we're rewarding Darryl Moore and the Sixers for being like,
yeah, yeah, sure we got you, and then like now he thinks
we got him, you know, like as they looked what a sucker?
Uh that. I don't know what to do with that. I mean,
we have to move the grade down, don't we. I mean just I
just don't know how much. It is also the steps that they took to
tamper and you end up with PJ. Tucker Daniel House and danthy Melton.
I don't do the thing. I was good for them. I love Yeah,
you ended up with House, and it was just sort of like,
okay, now we're kind of seeing the aging curve PJ. Tucker a little
bit and it's what does that look like? I would drop them too,
And look, you have to factor in just a so there was either a
disconnect between James Harden and the franchise or you flat out just lied, right,
and it's just here's the Here's what's also tricky is you you look at
it a year. You know, we're a year on now, and you
know they're gonna have to trade James Harden. They're not going to get very
good value for him. But like the it's not a it's not a situation
where oh and he's also on the hook for four more years at two hundred
million dollars or whatever it is, Like, that's that's a good thing.
I think, although like you could make the counter that well, had he
if there were more team control, a team would give up more to acquire
him. Potentially, I don't know if that's actually true in Harden's case,
because you might not want the back ends of those years or any of those
years, given where he is in his career. Yeah, I just and
then I guess, really, if you want to go full Galaxy brain,
you're looking at it now and it's like, even though he said that's not
going to happen, the odds of Joel Embiid requesting a trade and leaving and
basically making your franchise have to start over or higher now than they were a
year ago because of what you've done, because of the way you operated with
Harden all told, the Sixers are in a more precarious position now, and
I think it has a lot to do with what they did last summer.
So we got to move off the A for sure. I'm gonna take this
down to I'll just go down a full letter grade to a B because even
looking at all these moves in hindsight, like individually, they kind of all
still look pretty good. They just didn't work out quite that well. And
the Sixers were a good team last year, So you know, I don't
know, I can't move him down too much more than that. I'm gonna
move him down to a B plus just because I don't like the Daniel House
trade deal. In retrospect, I don't know why you signed Montrose Harold really,
but just they were a really good team last year and I think that
you definitely need to diminish their grade because of what happened with Harden, but
also it ended up kind of almost being the ideal scenario for them where they
weren't because he still was not great. In the playoffs, it was like
every third game or something so and the elimination game when they are after being
up three to two on Boston like that stuff. It matters in the sense
of, Okay, you did whatever you did by Hard and you might have
done wrong by him, but it still worked out for you as a franchise.
I just don't really know how to grade that. That brings us to
our last team in the division. It is the Toronto Raptors. They resigned
that he is young to a two year, sixteen million dollars deal with only
one million guaranteed for year two. They signed Otto Porter Junior for away from
the Golden State Warriors to a two year MINIMLI deal. Essentially, I was
less than the big mL E I should say. They drafted Christian Coloco at
number thirty three. They signed Chris Bouchadi with three year, thirty five point
three million dollar deal. They that's really it unless I'm missing anything like big
that they they didn't get. They lost util want an Abby to the Nets
is like the other big thing that they did. I don't think. Uh,
they had like one Heart and Gomez at one point, they had Justin
Champenny at one point. Did he even finish the season with them? But
they had DJ Wilson at one point as well. So yeah, I don't
did I did I miss anything? I think you hit the big ones.
I think yeah, I think I think we're good. So we both gave
them I say, we both like we have the same grade. I gave
them a B plus. You gave them a B in retrospect, Maram,
what do you think of their offseason? Well, I mean we both do
we both give them fs this offseason for gave them a minus minus minus and
you called me a savage. You're still a savage. I'm trying to think
why we were high on that. I guess like the Porter move looked good
until he was heard and basically did not contribute it at all. Thaddeus Young
seemed to make sense, like, oh, certainly you can trade him for
a bad first or something. Maybe that was the thinking this has got to
go down, I think because now that we've got a better global picture of
the team's lack of a direction, this is sort of the same thing that
you know, they didn't pick a move to demonstrably get better. Now,
granted, the circumstances of the twenty three off season are different because of Van
Fleet's free agency and Gary Trent's opt in and all that stuff. I'm gonna
take this down from a B too. I'm gonna just take it down to
a C just because it feels a full letter grade worse to me, mainly
mainly on the thinking that it can this past. This twenty two off season
contributed to the just like nauseating stasis that the organization continues to exist. In
my question before you make it to be what move of all the ones that
they made, and you can go through the nitty gritty ones that we didn't
name if you want to, Like maybe you're just very high on like the
few minutes that want her to go mis played for them or they what move
looks better in hindsight? What deal? What contract? Does any of what
they did last summer look better now? Yeah? You'd have to stretch and
say, well, the Chris Bouche one is okay, it doesn't look better.
No, I don't think I think that's the question. Do you have
one that looks better? I don't think it's And I just don't have enough
information on Like maybe Christian Coloko, like picking him up makes sense, but
oh no, you felt the need to go give up a ship ton for
yakum purdles. Anyway, so you bumped them down to would you say,
I think I took him down to full letter grade to a C. Yeah,
I'm gonna go C minus here. I could convince you a B plus
though, because I liked it at the time. But they really underestimated,
like and I don't know. We talked about maybe we're waiting how much Chris
Bouche would shoot, like maybe he thought he showed better than he didn't.
We thought out a porter would really choose their spacing. But like, even
looking back right now, is how did we not criticize them more for not
addressing their lack of half court spacing. Maybe we're really sipping the Scotty Barnes
cool aid at that point. I don't know. I wonder too, like
how much of I mean, certainly now in twenty three were dinging them for
moves like unmade moves from way before, like well, if you thought van
Fleet might just leave, you should have traded him. And if you think
maybe that's gonna happen now with Siaka mand or Anobi, you should have gotten
value like that kind of thing. I don't. I guess at the time
a year ago, we weren't kind of thinking along those same lines, because
all of what's happened to Toronto now was kind of foreseeable and so but but
I think just in isolation, you know, we looked at oh, fad
Young, that's fine, auto Porter, that's fine, just didn't work out.
So well there, Do you want to take us on to the Central
Division? Yes, I gotta go find it here. Want me to do
it. If you can't find it, yeah, I go for it.
I'll take the next one. We begin with the storied Chicago Bulls. They
drafted dal And Terry at number eighteen. Tony Bradley picked up his player option.
They signed Derek Jones Junior to a two year, six point six million
dollars deal. He opted out on the final year. They signed Andre Drummond
too, a two year, six point six million dollars deal. He's still
there. They signed Zachline to a five year, two hundred and fifteen point
two million dollars deal player option. In year five, they had go on
Dragics in a one year vet minimum. They lost Troy Brown Jr. Who
went to the Lakers, and they did not bring back Matt Thomas or Tristan
Thompson. I believe based off when we did these, but I will look
very quickly that we hit everything, unless you're upset that they waved Javon Freeman
Liberty. They had coaches attend to Kompo for a hot minute, but then
waved Tam in October. I think we got all the all the biggest ones
though. Yeah, I think you're good there, so we gave them.
We Wow, we were pretty nice to the Bolls. B minus and a
b HM doesn't seem like us. What's the main thing? The Lavine deal
is the main thing to focus on, right like, and I guess it's
and the only thing I think you can so we can talk about the Lavine
deal, I mean talk about like whether you thought they needed to be more
aggressive with the tools that they had, which I think was would be a
fair criticism was you know, was Dale and Terry the right pick? The
answer there is just I mean TVD not. But like the only way that
I think you could really say, oh we need to like drop them down
to an F is you thought they should have blown it up because the writing
was on the wall with the with the Lonzo Ball injury, or you know,
were you maybe like, oh, they should have drafted, like thinking
about what Christian Brown would have looked like on this team. He was drafted
number twenty one, even Walker Kessler and number twenty two, like instead of
having Nikola Vujevich right there. So I don't I really don't know how to
regrade this team because I think the zach Lavine extension was actually smart. I
know people are kind of down on him. We know what zach Lavine is.
That's actually not a bad thing. He hits a lot off the dribble
threes. He could probably stand in do a little bit more cutting. He's
a really good shot creator is probably about average passer for his position. I
had greater hopes for him there entering this past season. So that was a
good that's a good contract. I think I don't like nothing else about this
off season was very good or inspiring though, But was it, Oh,
let's bring them all the way down to a D type of uninspiring. Yeah.
I mean, my instincts for always knocking the bulls for not blowing it
up are hard to resist here. But I think it's more fair to be
harsh on them for the twenty three offseason because this was the one where you
didn't have to retain Bukovich. You you know, you have DeRozan on a
short on a short deal now and you can trade him and you know,
Lavine maybe you can. Last year was a little different because they didn't really
have as many outs, and I think they had more reason to believe.
I guess that running it back essentially, you know, could produce you know,
maybe we're the fourth or fifth best team in the East or something.
It wasn't ridiculous for them to think that. It's more ridiculous to think that
now, or at least it's it's worse overall planning to operate that way now.
So I don't think I'm gonna move this. I I have had him
at a B. I think I'm gonna leave it at a B. I
don't I don't feel like they need to be really dinged because because if you
ding them, it's because you know, the only consequential thing they did was
was resigned, was keep Levine had a deal that we both think is at
least like okay. So I can't really deviate too much from what I thought
last year. I want to dig them a little bit to say, like,
why weren't they the team that drafted Christian Round? But I can't do
it. I'm gonna stick with a B minus. The other thing here,
too, is last season was not as convenient for them to blow it up
in fury like you still would have probably gotten really good value for Damarta Rosen,
Anna who was pounding down the door to get Nikola Vouchovic in the final
year of his deal this off season. As you said, it's easier to
be critical because vouch was a free agent, you have Demarta rosen on an
expiring contract. There weren't a lot of teams in the East looking to tear
it down, so I think that you could have or there weren't a lot
of teams in general looking to tear it down in the off season, so
you could have I think, gotten good value for these players overall, though,
like maybe you could talk like should this have been like a C plus
in the moment just because they didn't, Like what did Eric Jones Junior really
contribute for them? I think Andre Drummond had like a fine season, So
yeah, it would have been nice if they would have addressed the guard spot
more. They drafted a rookie who could have played. But like, those
are just sort of like common missus that other teams have as well, And
because it's the Bulls, we might be inclined to shoot on them a little
bit more more heavily. Yeah, this is gonna be a fascinating one though
that it's very in theme with the Bulls that we both just kept our grades
the same for them, because all the Bulls seem to do is like just
kind of keep keep their stuff the same. They stay the same, We
stay the same. The Cleveland Cavaliers. This is a kind of a funny
one because looking at when we did this, the first item is not what
you think it should be based on their twenty two off season. It's drafted
Ohia Baji at number fourteen. Also drafted Isaiah Mobile at forty nine, signed
Andrew dim hard to do A two. A signed Robin Lopez to a one
year FET minimum, Ricky Rubio three years eighteen point four million. That was
the mini. MLA signed Howell Netto to a one year VET minimum, A
little bigger gave Darius Garland five years one ninety two point nine thirty max if
he makes all NBA. Collin Sexton at the time was unsigned. And that's
it, right. The keVs didn't do anything else less season. Obviously the
Donovan Mitchell trade, you should we I have the details? Should we give
me the details? So they trade Ohshya Boji Lowry marketing Colin Sexton and assigned
and trade a twenty twenty five first round pick, at twenty twenty seven first
round pick and at twenty twenty nine first round pick, plus swaps in twenty
six and twenty eight. I believe for Donovan Mitchell that is, I mean,
and they had I think that was really it. There was nothing else
that they did noteworthy before the start of the season there, yeah, no,
so yeah, So it's interesting to note that you had them as a
C and I had them as a B based on everything except Donovan Mitchell,
right, yes, so I guess part of the whole thing was like,
well, why is Colin Sexton unsigned right now? For mind my end as
well, and I think I probably was, uh, well, if anything,
the Darius Garland contract like cold, we can we pay him more?
Now? Would that be okay? Because great, we just give him more
money because that looked I think we both liked it at the time. But
yeah, the Sexton thing was was probably probably her. I guess we have
to move up because of the Mitchell trade, right because they leveled up as
a team, they got another year to take a shot at it, and
you know, the New York stuff has died down a little bit because if
you were gonna, if we were gonna move them down for the Mitchell trade,
I guess the thought would have to be that this is a stupid,
dangerous rental that doesn't raise the ceiling enough. And I don't I don't feel
that. I don't know why anyone remove him down. I guess you could
say, well, look, they gave up lotry marketing, and lowry market
was not viewed lotry market at the time of the deal, and it wasn't
becoming awkward for that. I mean, should was he ever becoming that?
In Cleveland? I doubt it. Yeah, I think he was able to
play the three in Cleveland, which kind of unlocks some stuff for him to
do in Utah a benefit to the Calves there. Could you say, you
know who, what was the offer they were actually bidding against, like when
you're looking at the Knicks is easier to say. But even just like Colin
Sexton wasn't muwe as favorably around the league, he was probably considered on his
deal more of an asset than Larry market In at the time, like on
that side and trade. Yeah, I think I would argue that even on
BOGI. It's just like he looks like a really good player, but was
sort of rookie at the time. You can quibble over they probably did give
up a hair too much for Donovan. I think it's just fair to say
that where it's like they've gotten away with one less swap or did the swaps
need to be in there? But I think the only thing to question in
retrospect is just sort of the Ricky Rubio deal, and I hope his mental
health is okay, I want to make that clear, but how much value
was he bringing to a roster that really needed shooting? They do still need
some backup guard helps. I think the deal is ultimately still fine for them,
and again I hope his mental health is okay. We'll see if he
comes back with the team. What is there to dislike? Actually dislike,
I'm gonna go a minus here just because it's Oh, could they have figured
out a way to where they had some like other wing options on this roster.
He's also we're going through their offseason grades. They weren't viewed as like
a real suitor for Donovan Mitchell at the time, so this wasn't baked in
to their plan. They were definitely we saw them tangentially mentioned a couple times,
but they were not the team that you thought was gonna come out of
the woodwork and wind up acquiring him. Yeah, I think if I'm starting
from a B and you're starting lower than me, and you're coming up that
high, I have to go to an A, just a flat A,
because like it's Cleveland and Lebron James is not there, so you're gonna have
to overpay a little bit to go get someone like Mitchell. So I can't.
I can't, like, you know, knock him down to an A
minus because maybe it costs a little too much. Yeah, I gotta just
go a. You got on in the Mitchell. You elevated the sort of
you moved into another tier that you just weren't in without him the year before.
So I feel good about just going all the way up for them.
Let's move on to the Detroit Piston too. His offseason, we were not
as kind too as we were this past offseason. I can tell you that
I'm not even looking at our grades right now, and I know we weren't
as kind. Be surprised. We're pretty close. Oh really, okay,
So drafted Jay Nivy at number five, Corey Joseph and Hamadudillo picked up their
player options. They signed Marvin Badley the third to a three or thirty seven
point five fully guaranteed deal. They traded Jeremy Grant and numbered forty six to
Portland for number thirty six. Were turned into Gabriel Prosida at the time Milwaukee's
twenty twenty five first that was top four protected. I said it was top
five before, so I apologize, and at twenty twenty six second round pick
most favorable of Portland or New Orleans, they acquired Jalen Durhan for Kema Walker
and that Milwaukee twenty twenty five. First, they acquired new Lands Noel al
Burke six million Cashromn Knicks A twenty twenty three second, which was their own
A twenty twenty six second, it will be their owner Minnesota's. That was
just essentially be taken on the salary. They signed Kevin Knox to a two
year, six million dollars contract. They resigned Rodney McGruder to a one year
veteran minimum. And I believe that was the only those are the only noteworthy
things that I miss anything there based off what happened. They ended up trading
saban leeing. Oh, they ended up trading saban Lee Kelly Olynnock to the
Jazz for Boyon mcdonovitch. I can't believe I missed that one. So that
game later, that game later, Yeah, the last like they waved Kema
Walker, but we all know that at this point. So you gave them
a B minus. I gave them a B minus. Excuse me, you
gave them a B plus. Again, This was all before the boy On
mcdonovitch trade. What are your thoughts now? Like kind of stepping back and
zooming out, This was a I wonder how high I would have gotten them
if the Bogdanovitch trade had happened when we did this, I guess I would
have gone higher, although I don't know. I could imagine myself saying,
why are they doing this? Where are they adding a vet, you know,
to this young team? I think man, I might believe it.
Can I bring up an awkward question? Please? Do did you see enough
from Jay and Ivy as the season wore on to say like this should have
been a Shade and Sharp or Dyson Daniel's team, or even the Galaxy Brain
thing we all Jale and Williams could be honest and you're talking you look here,
you're talking to no. That is where I was going is I'm sure
I was higher on Jade and Ivy a year ago than I am now.
I don't know if that's fair, just because you know, he's a rookie
point guard on a bad team, like he's kind of just set up to
fail. I do have more questions about, you know, is he gonna
be able to shoot it? Can he figure out what to do on defense?
You know all that stuff that it's a it's cool to have those questions
before a guy ever plays a game as a rookie. But then when you
get through a year and you still have them, and some of them are
more pronounced than they were, and then Shaden Sharp is just sitting there's like,
oh yeah, this guy might have it. I think that pick looks
a little worse, and I think the Bagley deal looks just as horrible now
as it did then. I think, I'm but the Bogdanovich one isn't on
here. I think I'm gonna move down. I'm gonna move it down to
a B minus because I think the Ivy pick doesn't look as good to me,
because I think the Bagley deal looks has been confirmed as as bad as
expected. They just got they got a first for Jeremy Grant essentially and a
thirty six and a couple of seconds during I'm not sure about Yeah, I
don't know, Maybe just down to a B. Maybe B minus is too
far. Where are you at? The Marvin Bagley deal was dog shit at
the time. It's dog shit now inexplicable. I just I don't like it.
I am higher on Jaen Durhan now than I was before, and I
would actually say I'm higher on Jay and Ivy now. What's that? Why?
Do you like Ivy better? Now? There's just way more feel there
than I thought when you're looking at like the point guard him of what he
can do, and so like there are gonna be questions about what's his efficiency
going to look like from the in between range from three. I think that's
all fair when you watch him and the decisions that he can make with his
live dribble sometimes after he's leaving his feet, I am, I don't know
if this is I will say I don't know if this is the best team
for him because of now having not just Kake Cunningham put a star Thompson there,
but the actual player. And this is why I can't bring them all
the way up to an A. I'm gonna go to an A minut I'm
gonna go to a B plus for the Rofs. I hate that Bagley deal,
but I'm gonna go to a B plus for the off season. I
love the boy on my Danovitch deal is a home run for them. Yeah,
to end up being mission critical when you're talking about streamlining the development of
these guys together, and I think that Jade and Ivy pick most likely the
only player I will say right now too, there are three players that I
there's really only two because I'm super high on Usman Jang. I'm not going
to throw him in this like the players who you can look back and say,
oh, maybe they should have taken Shade and Sharp or should they have
taken Dyson Daniels or John Williams. Excuse me, and Jean Williams just wasn't
in the conversation for that, and so I just I love Shade and Sharp.
But Jade and Ivy is going to be the better passer. I don't
know what he's he is already the better passer, Excuse me. I don't
know who he's gonna look like on the events. So I'm gonna bump them
up to a B plus. I couldn't even be talked into an A minus.
I just don't I think they because they I think they extracted pretty good
value out of the Knicks for taking on those salaries. I think they got
like, I think they got good value for Jeremy Grant just looking at the
point he was at in his contract. Maybe you think they should have gotten
a little more. So I'm gonna go B plus here. Let's see why
you made a good case. I feel like it's weird that I because I
think and I went up. Yeah, so much of my grade was based
on liking Ivy, and now I'm if it's it's to be fair in the
interest of fairness, if you're if you're lower on Jay and Ivy, now
like that would explain it. That's not really. But the Boganovitch deal,
I think is a plus. And so does that counteract it? And should
I just stay where I'm at? I'll just go to a B so that
way we're not, you know, in lockstep as a B plus, because
if I stayed put, I'd be at a B plus. Are you ready
to take us to the next team? Sure? That is the Indie Anna
Pacers. You may recall the for a hot second, they had DeAndre Ayton
signed to a four year, one hundred thirty three million dollars offer sheet,
which Phoenix matched in a hot second. Two hot seconds. Benedict Matherin drafted
number six, came out like Gangbusters and cooled off quite a bit. Drafted
Andrew Nimhard at thirty one. Holy cow, we like that, four years,
eight point six million for him. Acquired Kendall Brown from Minnesota. Blah
blah blah, and significant picked up o shaper sets team option, signed Jalen
smith Man. I was on Jalen smith to a three or fifteen point one
million dollar contract player option in twenty four twenty five also guaranteed him a starting
spot. That's fun got and then they were on the other end of the
Brogden trade we mentioned for the Celtics acquiring Daniel Tye had two years left on
a deal at the time. Aaron Nie Smith Malik Fits who was waved next
to Awska's waved. Joan Morgan waved and got Boston's twenty three first with top
twelve protection. You're better at this than I am. I don't know who
that turned in to pick wise, the pick from from the Celtics. Uh,
that turned into is that Ben Shepherd? I think that turned into Sure,
if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure it's Ben Shepherd, but I'll
double check it is Ben Shephard number twenty six. Amazing, glad I threw
that to you. Let's see lost a T. J. Warren who signed
with Brooklyn. I think that's all I got here. They signed James Johnson
after we did it. If you care, okay, and just for reference,
you had Indies twenty twenty two offseason as a C and I had it
as a C. Plus, man, I don't I'm trying to think of
reasons to deviate here. Again, I still think that DeAndre and offer sheet
was too kind for an offer sheet, like they should have made it harder
for Phoenix to match, but they also kind of dodged a bullet there.
Well that's the thing. Yeah, Like I don't know how to evaluate that
because I don't know it was matching no matter what, which is why I
think they probably still should have been like, hey, yeah, I mean
that, and and then the weird offer sheet trend really spiked this offseason and
was not really in vogue last offseason. So yeah, I think I think
Matherin at six is probably I mean, Sharp is right there. Again that's
tough, but I mean Matherin started out great and looks like he's gonna at
least be a really good, you know, high scoring six man. So
that's that's not a bad floor for number six unless you're just like, unless
you knew and nobody can claim this that Shade and Sharp was just gonna be
you know, have you know the top three upside from that draft class.
Maybe I think we knew that Jeremy Sowan was gonna have cool hair and incredibly
high NBA sailing, though forgot about some one was there too. I'm kind
of in, you're gonna need to talk me up or down here, because
I think I'm inclined to stick with my C plus like good offseason above average
didn't blow me away. I wonder if you're are you coming up though,
Yeah, I'm gonna come up to a T plots just because I think then
Andrew m hard Pick with a home run. We'll see if that is like
devalued at all, because now they have Brown there and Benedick Mathern's gonna start,
but he heals there, does his role get pulled? TJ McConnell still
floating around here. I do wonder if like they could have gotten better value
for Malcolm Brogden, but his injury history, Like there was a trade that
was just scuttled because of like his injury reports. So I'm thinking I don't
know enough about Ben Shephard to care one way or the other. But you
ended up with the number twenty six pick. I think that's probably fine given
what the league wide valuation of him, was it was like a maybe a
slightly above average. I don't know. I'm not as high on Bennedick Mathren.
I don't think that means he was the wrong pick. He might be
the right pick. And again, you can't be like, well they could
haved Jalalen Williams would have beenerfect. Jeal Williams wasn't in the conversation like at
that point, So and Jeremy so In, could you have made that case
Tyson Daniels. Sure, I don't know the DeAndre In contract. I appreciate
their aggression. I think they should have been more aggressive, but we already
talked about did they sort of get lucky that Phoenix matched there? It was
an average too slightly above average offseason? If that to me? And look,
I think there's a world where you could say no, like I really
believe that, like this should have been a Shade and Sharp team, or
this should have been a Dice and Daniels team, this should have been a
Jeremy Sewin team. And especially given their void on the wings at the time,
I think you could absolutely make that case. Why are we we had
Haliburton? Why was matherin the pick here? So I think that's a conversation
to actually be had. But Matherin's really good. And if you think he's
gonna I don't know what he's gonna be on defense, but if you just
think the efficiency, I'm just convinced is going to be fine when you're looking
at some of the types of shots he's taking. And if you're convinced that
he's gonna become a better passer, then he's that's gonna end up being like
he might just be better than Shaden Sharp, Dyce and Daniels Jeremy Sewin anyway,
And so it's the right pick. Yeah, all right, so you're
are you you're moving up to a C plus with me basically because of Andrew
Nemhard, who I'm just st with number thirty one. Come on, that's
really good value for him. Do you want me to take us to the
Milwaukee Bucks. I would love it. So the Milwaukee Bucks. I'm looking
at the wrong document here wondering why they're not there. They drafted Marjohn Bochamp
at number twenty four. Pat Connaughton picked up his player option and then extended
on a three year, twenty eight point three million dollars deal. They resigned
Javon Cardge with two years four point three million dollar deal. He opted out
on the second year. They resigned Wesley Matthews one year at the VET minimum,
signed Joe Ingles to a one year deal at the miniml They signed Bobby
Portis to a four year forty eight point six million dollars deal player option at
the end, signed Searchibacca to a one year deal at the Vets minimum.
And they brought back Jordan Uara and he was eventually traded, but they did
bring him back. Did I miss anything after this happened? I think you're
good there? Yeah, recent portists, Yeah, I think we're I think
we got all the all the significant stuff because they had Tanasis was already under
contract, right, didn't need to resign him. Yeah. Yeah, they
resign him this off this past off season. So we hit everything that was
important and I gave them first time around a B. You gave them a
C minus. We differentiated here a good amount. That's a big one.
I think I'm going through trying to remember my thought process. I can imagine
myself saying one missing that Javon Carter was gonna be as good as he was,
but thinking you had this big issue with your fifth starter slash closer for
a team that's trying to win a title, and your answer was, let's
bring in Joe Ingles, who's gonna miss a chunk of the season. And
then, yeah, this is definitely what I thought. He's not someone I
got just like listening to echoes of my own dumb thoughts in my brain.
I'm sure that I thought Ingles, and I generally like Ingles, but coming
off the ACL being someone that you, yeah, you can run some pick
and rolls with him, he's a good shooter. I didn't see him being
good enough defensively and with the injury and the age to like, this is
our guy. This is the guy that's going to be out there with Joannis
and Drew and Chris Middleton and Lopez in the games that matter, which will
be in the finals, because I think I probably also picked the Bucks to
at least make the finals or win the title. And I didn't love going
into a season using the mini mL E on Ingles and then having West Matthews
kind of be your fallback there and banking on Conaton maybe being good enough to
handle that role. Probably didn't like the Bobby Portis steal either. But C
minus seems harsh because this is without looking back at well, who were their
alternatives to Joe Ingles? I don't know. I well, let me ask
you before I go. You're at a B that's pretty high. Are you
inclined to move that one way or the other? I can't imagine you're moving
it up, No, I think Look, Bobby Portis, I think has
improved incrementally as a switch defender over the past couple of years, which I
think makes his contract look a little bit better. But you know, the
mini ema leaving with Joe Ingles, I think that was the move that I
fell in love with. Then it gave me pause, who else are they
going to get with that money? In retrospect now? And he ended up
being fine for them. The West Matthews signing probably ended up being more important
than even we expected at the time for them. I don't know what aged
poorly here. Maybe the Pat Connaughton extension a little bit. We don't have
a ton of like we don't have a ton of knowledge on Marjan bow Champ,
but he really showed flashes. Its just someone who knows where to be
when he's getting out in transition. And who can hold up defensively for it
was only certain possessions. I don't know. You know, does that make
him the right pick at number twenty four? Like did you want Nikola Yovich?
Did you want Peyton Watson, Patrick Balwin Junior? I mean like Blake
Wesley from the Spurs, who's speed demon, but he's not too efficient.
It's the probably made the right pick at number twenty four unless you know what
this team? You know what this team actually could really use who they could
really use? Excuse me, they could probably really use the answering them hard?
So did what did they miss on last offseason? I might be inclined
to just I might bring this up to a BL like they missed on Searchebacca,
but it's a minimum and he wasn't happy there. Yeah, I'm gonna
bring this up to a B plus. It's just I think if you want
to criticize them, it should they have made the Mike Budenholzer decision then,
But why would you have, Like you need to get that you were coming
off like that was the one you didn't win a title that past season,
but you want it the previous season, Like what else were you supposed to
do here, like and let you have to believe that the Pat Connaton or
Bobby Porter's deals are a disaster, and I just don't think they are because
they need salary matching fodder for trades. Just that' does a baseline. I
don't even talking about their value on the court or could they have done better
with the Mini mL E than Joe Ingles. Yeah, I think I don't
think I maybe no, I'm going to leave it as a C minus.
And the thinking is just that the like my you're the standard is really high
when you're a team in the bucks sphere where you're you're trying to win a
title, and that's it. And I guess again, like I wish I
could remember all that I thought at the time, but like just thinking,
you've got a clear need, I mean, which is exacerbated on the wing
because you know, Chris Middleton's gonna miss a bunch of time to start the
year and may not be healthy until at the very end, if at all,
and they just it'd be a little bit like if the Calves this past
offseason had just not gone and signed, gone and found Max Strus and had
just run it back essentially with you know, the collection of wings that were
not good enough to complement their other four good starters. So I'm gonna stay
where I'm at A as a C minus. Yeah, because I just in
hindsight, it's not like looking back at any of these it's like, oh
man, that really worked out way better than I thought it. If anything,
all of them other than Carter, the rest of the moves they made,
you know, were what I thought they would be, or turned out
worse, I would say, so I'm gonna bratchet them up to a B
plush just because I think, look, you can talk about the lack of
athleticism around Yannis. Still again, what were they supposed to do with the
tools available to them? I will quick fire this just going alphabetically through all
the teams in the East. The Atlanta Hawks, we both gave them a
B minus. We stuck with B minuses for them. The Boston Celtics,
we both gave them as we dropped, both of us drop them down to
A minuses. The Brooklyn Nets, I gave them a D plus. Initially
you gave them a C minus. I stuck with a D plus. You
went down to a D. The Charlotte Hornets, we both gave them D
pluses. We stuck with those d pluses. The Chicago Bulls, I gave
them a B minus, you gave them a B. We both stayed the
same. I have a B minus, you have a B. The Cleveland
Cavaliers I gave a C, you gave a B. It was pre Donovan
Mitchell trade. I bumped them up to an A minus. You bumped them
up to an A. The Detroit Pistons I had as a B minus,
you had as a B plus. This was pre Boyan mcdonovitch trade. I
bumped them up to a B plus. You dropped them down to a B.
That was a funny one. Uh. The Indiana Pacers, I gave
them a C. You gave them a C plus. I bumped them up
to a C plus. Did you drop them down to a C because that's
what I have listed? Yeah, sure, let's go with that. Uh.
The Miami Heat, I gave them a B minus. You gave them
a C minus. We both bumped them up to a B. The Milwaukee
Bucks, I gave a B, you gave a C minus. I bumped
them up to a B plus. You gave them a C. Minu again,
the New York Knicks. We both gave them C minuses. I gave
them an A minus. You gave them an A. Kudos to you.
The Orlando Magic I gave them an A minus. You gave them a B
plus. I bumped it up to an A. You bumped yours up to
an A minus. The Philadelphia seventy six Ers received a's from the both of
us. I dropped them down to a B plus. You dropped them down
to a B. The Toronto Raptors, I gave them a B plus.
You gave them a B. I dropped them down to a C minus.
You dropped them down to a C. The Washington Wizards, I gave them
a D plus. You gave them a D. We both gave them F
times infinity minuses. That's the only one I feel sure about. We will
get to the West eventually, or depending on when I published the East,
we will absolutely the West might be out as you're listening to this, who
knows very quickly though, Grant, Are you ready for the debut of our
new segment, Yes, so ready, Dan. It is called drumroll please
garbage time, where we're just gonna go through some qui fire questions. I
have a couple this time. I don't know if you have any There are
quizzes there would you rather their factor caps? And I'm saying that because I
have a factor cap for grant. Are you ready? I'm ready for the
first one. This one, it's it's gonna be a quiz and I'm excited
about it. Which NBA player has more career forty point games? Allen Iverson
or Lebron James. It's gotta be Lebron seventy four, Stephen Curry or Damian
Lillard. Dame, it's Stephen Curry. Wow o two. Now see,
I want to tell you what happened there. See I overthought the first one,
and so then I double overthought the second one because it's like, if
he's asking me, it's gotta be the anyway. So this is me blowing
it. Go ahead, Kevin Durant or Oscar Robinson? Come on, first
of all, it's Oscar Robertson. Do I get credit for at least knowing
that? You know? Yeah, seventy seven sixty five. I'll give you
credit for that one. Janna's attent to Kompo or Shaquille O'Neal. Oh golly,
this pause. You literally just said, golly, I just got terrible.
I know this is what you've got. I'm on tilt right now because
I uh, it better be Shack. It is Shack forty nine to forty
one. Dwayne Wade or Kyrie Irving. I'm gonna say Wade, yes,
thirty four to thirty one. Devin Booker or Jason Tatum? How on brand
is this? Can we just go with seventy point games? That's easier.
I'm gonna take Tatum. It's Devin Booker twenty five to twenty two. Carmelo
Anthony or Joel and Bead. Oh, I'm gonna have to go. I'm
gonna say Mellow just because he's probably played like twelve times as many games as
in bead career. Right, But Joel and beat us thirty nine forty point
games, Mellow has thirty six. NICOLEA. Yokich or Kway Thompson. Ooh
uh, I'm gonna say Yoki. It is Kway Thompson eighteen to seventeen.
These are so close. I'm not gonna know these. This one's great.
Julius Irving or Julius Randall. Uh do aba games count? Is that factored
inn? Or is this NBA only. It's NBA only. All right,
Well, I'm gonna say Julius Randall just because it seems impossible. Ten to
nine, Yeah, Julius Randall. Finally, Paul George or Zach Lavine.
H. I'm gonna go with Lavine. It's Paul George. You were wrong
twenty one twenty what's my hit right there? That's not good? Well,
the counter will show it when I actually published, like the Schwortz video of
it. But that was it? Wow, you must so let's make you
feel better about yourself. Okay. Would you rather Grant take an elbow from
Prime Shack or take a charge in transition from Zion Williams H. I think
I'm gonna take the charge from Zion. The elbow from Prime Shack. I
feel like you would just be in surgery for a significant amount of time.
I'm not comfortable with that. NBA factor tap Desmond Baine will finish his career
with more All Star appearances than Zach Lavine does. Oh do I get to
ask you how many All Star Games Zach Lavine has made? He has made
two. I'm gonna say that is fact. I think Desmond Baine will make
at least three. That's impressive because the West is so tough. I don't
really know where I land on that, so I'm just gonna let you stand
alone there. That is all. That is all I have for you this
time, because we were doing so much today. Did you have any Unfortunately
I don't, so you're probably gonna have to edit this out. Do you
want to take us out of here? Sure? Sorry? Man, everybody,
thank you for listening to the first of it. What will be a
couple of previews here will our regrade re regrades, that's what we should call
it. Because that was fun. And if you have not already rated,
reviewed, subscribed, liked, followed all of the various things you can do
to support the podcast, please do all of that stuff. Tell your friends
about it, tell your enemies about it. Check out our merch the link
to which is in the podcast description and I think the YouTube description. Join
our discord where certainly as the season gets going, that will will be much
more active in there. Still getting lots of good questions, lots of good
topics of discussion in there. Trying to think what else I missed, submit
garbage time topics. If you love Grant and I don't have to be the
only ones coming up with this. I'll start a garbage time room in there,
so if you want us to cover anything in garbage time, let us
know that's probably the place to do it. You can you can definitely tweet
at us at Hardwood Knox. We are also at Hardwood Knocks on TikTok,
hard Underscore Knox on Instagram. Uh, leave it, leave garbage time suggestions
in the YouTube comments wherever, but discord would be good. I think that
covers everything. Thanks again, and we close, as always with a shout
out to the one on with Frank Kinkina an apologies to jaredih Hm