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Welcome to episode forty four or the
Game Spot after Dark podcast, Game Spots,

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Official Chill Hype via podcast. I
am Tamara Hussein, joined by Michael

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him Yo, What up, Jordan
Remain Hello, and Alessandro Flai. All

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Right, how's it going? Everyone
doing the best we can in these times?

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The best? I think the appropriate
response is like a really deep inhale

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and then a really long exhale.
I think that captures every kind of range

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of emotion necessary for now. So
we usually have a segment on the podcast

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if anyone is new to it,
called the Chris from Dayton, Ohio segment.

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Now it's usually for newcomers. Sandro, your this is your first time

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appearing on this podcast, that you'll
have to do this. Jordan, I

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have been in this podcast, but
I don't think the Chris from Daton,

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Ohio segment existed. I say,
I think the last time I was on

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the podcast, number was still in
this single digit. So yeah, I

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want to say, so we'll start
with Jordan and the Chris from Dayton,

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Ohio segment. Segment is effectively a
summation of who you are, what you

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do, and what you like.
So let us know what you're into.

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Wolf. Uh. Well, I
am the one of the associate editors on

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the news team at game Spot,
so you might not necessarily see me around

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all that often. I'm kind of
like mix into the normal news coverage,

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but if you pay attention to the
anime and apex legend stuff on the website,

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those are kind of like my beats. And whenever something Xbox related comes

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up, I usually touch it in
some capacity because I'm an ex Spox boy.

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I have a PlayStation, I have
a Switch, but I am one

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of those like final die hards in
the office who still plays most of their

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games on Xbox. And yeah,
that's I assume that's everything that you're looking

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for, Like, like, how
like how much information are we talking?

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Like life story do you want?
Like when I was first walking, it

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was like, what would you say? Are your are your favorite games?

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Like top three favorite games of all
time? Top three favorite games would be

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Titan Fall two, Mass Effect too, and damn, oh god, this

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is hard. I really think got
one more, man, I am beginning

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to go. Let's let's let's just
complete let's complete the pattern here Assassin's Creed

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to all twos. Okay, at
Sandro, who are you? What do

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you do here? What do you
like? What are your favorite three favorite

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games of all time? Cool?
Him? I'm Alissandro like two Moor said,

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this is my first time being on
I'm an editor at game Spot.

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I basically do a little bit of
everything. Uh. I used to do

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a lot of traveling before we you
know, all went into quarantine. I'm

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basically the guy that helps, uh, you know, sort of coordinate upcoming

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opportunities and you know, sort of
I basically keep everyone in the loop for

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what's happening or what will happen.
So yeah, I mean I basically write

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features. I occasionally write news.
I've been in the industry for about nine

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years this year actually, and actually
a few days ago was my third year

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at game Spot. So uh yeah, no, it's a it's been a

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it's been an interesting ride. But
but yeah, top three games unless I

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missed a question there, no,
no, no, okay, uh yeah,

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the Original Devil May Cry, Uh, Final Fantasy twelve and you know

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what, uh Street Fighter at three
third Strike nice? Wow, three solid

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games. That Final Fantasy twelve.
I did not know that about you even

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a whole new light. Well,
I mean it's a it's a great Final

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Fantasy game honestly and deserves more credit
like than it actually got. I'm actually

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glad that Zodiac Age you know edition
came out because I think more peoples are

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giving it its due. So yeah, it's it's it's easily the best No

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Wars game I ever created. That's
that's fair. That that's how I say

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yes. If you haven't played twelve
Zodiac a jo on switch is pretty much

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essentially it's amazing. It's got fast
forward, need fast forward. They also

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put an update where you can reset
your classes, which was which is a

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big thing. So I'm actually in
doing like a revisit in that game.

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So yeah, I'm like part of
the way for it, and it's fantastic.

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All right. Speaking of what we're
playing, him Michael, him,

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what you've been doing. I am
reporting in on the latest games to hit

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video game worlds. So first thing
I'll probably talk about is Valeriant. I

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am in the process of reviewing Valeriant
just launched on Tuesday, and I was

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I played a lot of the betas
and it was a pretty known quantity at

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that point, and not much has
changed, Like the core game is still

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pretty much what you played in the
beta. Things have been refined obviously,

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the the bug fixes, the tweaks, the like the patch notes, log

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is huge, and a lot of
smaller things to kind of round out the

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game. But I mean, I
feel pretty much the same way as I

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did in the beta. There's a
new map that is frequently put into the

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rotation and it's it's pretty much your
standard like CSCO style map. Overall,

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Valeriant is very much like your cs
GOO style game with hero powers and stuff

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like that. And that that's all
to say that it's very good. Like,

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the thing about Valeriant is that,
yes, it's emulating the cs formula

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very much with very heavy overwatched tones. But the thing I like about it

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is that it executes it extremely well. It's like really tight. And that's

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not an easy thing to pull off
because at its core is a very precise

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game in terms of balance and how
you play and how you're supposed to play

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the game to succeed is a very
you know, it's it's very specific way

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to play those styles of games,
and Valerie does it really well. I'm

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not gonna say it like breaks new
ground or anything, because it is very

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much borrowing from three separate games.
It's just a really well done mishmash of

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those things. But I'm gonna obviously
I'm gonna be giving it a lot more

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time, coming through strategies, try
out all the new all the different agents

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a column, not heroes agents,
because I mainly play like three different ones.

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But there's an overall I think eleven
right now, and that's a lot

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of work before I have final thoughts. But I'm working on putting up a

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review in progress, maybe by the
time this podcast goes up, or a

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little bit later, but it's definitely
I'm trying to hit this weekend to have

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a review in progress. So yeah, I'm you know, hit me up

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if you want to know about Valerie. Are you curious about Valerie at all?

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It's too hard for me. I
can't play. Yeah, I mean,

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like I love CS I played.
It's probably still the game I put

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the most amount of hours into.
So I played Valerine and I really enjoyed

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what I played. It was parts
of it I found like required a little

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more polish, if you know what
I mean, Like some of the sound

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effects, some of the visual kind
of stuff like whenever an enemy uses like

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that fog type ability. That was
an area It just looks like someone's dumped

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like like a turd on on that
and it's spinning. Yeah, and it

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looks rotting someone's dumped it and then
stirring it. Like that's That's the one

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thing I'll say about Valeriine is that
its presentation is severely lacking. Like you

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go from Overwatch to Valerie, from
Apex to like any other service style shooter

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that has hero types in them,
Valerie is severely lacking. Like I go

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into Apex, I'm like excited about
the character select screen that like you yeah,

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exactly, Like you buy animations intro
animation characters and your title cards and

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their poses and all that stuff,
and that's that's a very exciting part.

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Like why can't wait to like deck
out Crypto and like the the dopest K

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pop jacket uh, like duo tone
jackets and shit like that. That's that's

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exciting. Valerie's got none of that. The characters, it's it's weird.

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I feel like it's like, yes, it has a diverse roster, but

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their personalities are so like not there
that it kind of doesn't matter in a

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way. And that's unfortunate. But
I am you know, these games are

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in the state right now, That's
how I feel. But of course these

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games are always evolving. But yeah, like what Tam is saying about,

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like the graphical presentation, like,
yeah, this is made to be a

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low spec game that can play on
old computers. But even if you crank

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everything up to high settings, like, it doesn't look all that different and

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it's it looks bland and a bits
like rough, but it works, is

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what I'll say. So yeah,
functional, if not very very functional,

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but other than that's well speaking of
dated games that look dated. Also a

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Fantasy Star Online too, you know, I got you know. PSL two

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is is fun, It's it's good. I'm also in the process of reviewing

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that. That's a little bit up
in the air in terms of timing for

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that. I need to talk to
Callie about that. Brother. It's like

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your third review, like back to
back or something like that. That's like

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fourth or fifth or something. I
love reviewing games, man, But yeah,

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PSO two is it's gonna it is
messy. That game is very messy

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like old. It's old, but
it's like the quality of life and UI

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stuff has not changed at all,
Like it's been around for ten years and

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that ship has not been touched for
ten years. So you go into the

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game and you're like, what the
what am I supposed to click on?

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How do I click on it?
How do I access that menu? What

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is this quest? How do I
can't join a party until before I take

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a quest? And I can't go
Like there's so many things about PSO two

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that should that you would expect to
be refined in a game that comes on

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in twenty twenty, but this being
like props to it to being very true

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to what it was in twenty ten. It's just like, hey, here's

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a localized version of what that was. It's fun, though, I'll say

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that much, but I see it's
I think I think PSL two is,

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if anything, a fantastic example or
like a kind of something to have there

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that shows you how far MMOs have
come, Like if you if you want

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to see, like you know,
that's a good way to do it.

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Look, I play that game and
then play literally any modern Yeah, big

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facts. But yeah, it's still
fun at its core, but it's it's

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dated in so many ways, but
there is like this, there is this

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like Dreamcast era Sega charm to it. I think a lot of it has

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to do with the like the presentation
style and like the character models, the

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way the environments look feel like a
very high res detailed version of a Dreamcast

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era game. I mean that's also
because like Fantasy Star Online one is also

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of that time, so that makes
sense. There are a lot of cool

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things around the edges, but I
think I need to spend a lot more

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time in PSO two to kind of
figure that out, more so than Valeriant

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at this point. So I'm going
to be doing that all through the weekend.

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And there's another MMO that I'm going
to be playing over the weekend for

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play for all that. I mean, I'm not going to talk about it

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just because you know that stuff is
still in works. But man, I

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got my SI, I got a
lot of video games, man we go,

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you got a lot going on.
So bless you. Bless you for

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making the attempt trying not man,
Valerie Effort, No no, no puns

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for you, Bro Jordan, what
you've been playing well doing. I'm always

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playing Apex. I'm literally never stopping
playing Apex. I think like there was

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a brief period in season one where
I stopped playing because there was just no

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new content coming out. But about
a week before season two started and July

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of last year, I basically just
made sure that I played like an hour

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or two every single day. And
that's that's my life. I just I

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just play Apex Legends, and I
keep bugging you Tam and Chris to write

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about Apex Legends, haven't the numbers
Man? Yeah? I love Apex Legends

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so much. It's like one of
the most proudly diverse games ever. Like

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going back to your whole like character
thing, how a lot of hero shooters

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are kind of iffy and stuff,
Like the Apex Legends has such good heroes

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and such a diverse roster of them, and like, how many games out

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there can you just point to that
have a roster like this outside of like

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Overwatch because overwatched it at first.
It feels very natural to me, Like

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I think, I like we said
that in the twenty nineteen Game of the

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Year discussions that like, yeah,
it's like Gibraltar's my boy, Cryptos my

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boy. You know, there's a
lot of women of color included in there

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too, but it feels natural,
like, oh shit, like y'all are

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doing it right. I think there's
some conversations around Lobo's design, though,

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I think a lot of Latin X
folks are chiming in on the like the

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authenticity, but also the like we
see a lot of the like that we've

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we've seen ourselves in this way many
times in media before. Like it's it's

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I'm not it's not like a stereotypical, uh example of the but it's it's

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media has portrayed Puerto Rican woman like
this a lot. It says a lot

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that you can point out at least
one other character who is pretty much the

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same, like when whenever when she
showed up, pretty much everyone who plays

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over Watch went, And that's that's
a that's kind of a problem. Also,

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speaking of Valerie too, just added
a new character I forgot what her

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name is, Raina and lady Yeah, and everyone's like, that's that's sombrero.

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But like they're they're continually playing into
this uh like this sort of criminal

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esque uh Latino women, and it's
like kind of all right, we've we've

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been down this road before. We
can we can be a little bit more

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creative in how we represent uh little
like represent Latino women in games. But

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yeah, Apex go off and then
and then you're playing Rocket League. I

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I am I feel really bad because
Peter was always trying to get me to

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play Rocket League with him and Rob
like before he left, and sometimes I

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would play and sometimes we're like,
no, I want to play more Apex

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and I have no idea why.
But like two weeks ago, I was

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just thinking, you know, Rocket
League is pretty fun. I should I

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should try playing that game again.
And I've just been playing it for like

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a good hour, like every single
day. I'm like, oh, I'm

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back in Rocket League now, Like
I took a year and a half break

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and now I'm just back in it
for whatever reason. And what a stupidly

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00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:19.759
simple game that is so addictive to
play. It's pretty fantastic. I need

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to get back into it. I
played like we played in the tournament me,

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Lucy and Dave Jewett in in the
UK, and then that was the

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last time I played it. Like
I put so much energy into getting good

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for a tournament, and then once
I was done, I was like years

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running, man. Rocket League's been
out there for about five years at this

209
00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:45.480
point, Jordan's out there. I
think I'm just like Michael, You're telling

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me all the time I got to
play Persona. Jake's all the time telling

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me that I got to play which
are three and I'm just I need a

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break from those really long story driven
games, Like I just know. I

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just the multiplayer games where like I
play a match and it's just done in

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like five to ten minutes. I'm
like, cool, that was awesome.

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I'm gonna do that like one or
two more times and then I'm done for

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the day. Like I can't do
that if I play Persona five Royal.

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00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:18.279
You said that. What did you
say? It's like, oh, you

218
00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:22.720
don't have or you need to take
a break from playing long story driven games.

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00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:26.960
Bro, you need to need to
just do it. It'll it's rewarding.

220
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You be rewarded. You know.
I have it. It's on my

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PS four, it's downloaded, I
bought it. It's there. I just

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love it. No, I feel
you though, like having those Paletate cleanseror

223
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type games. Ever since I got
a Project Diva Houtsmiko on switch. I

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just look at my switch and I
pick it up and like, I wanna

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play a couple songs, then play
five songs, then play ten songs,

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then play twenty songs, and I'm
like, wow, now I don't have

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time to play the game. That
I was supposed to be playing, So

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I understand, man, Alessandra,
what are you currently playing? Yeah,

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I've actually gone for a revisit to
a Assassin's Creed origins. Like I actually

230
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reviewed the game like what almost three
years ago now end up as my first

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time coming back to it. I've
been playing on PC, and you know,

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it's I feel like I'm I think
I feel like I like the game

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a lot more now than I did
before, like mostly because just just how

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much like the setting itself is just
just so fantastic, and I still think

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it's one of the best like achievements
of the serious Assassin's Creed, Like you

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know, just a just so much
level of detail and craft went into it,

237
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and you know, I'm just like
really blown away. It's still even

238
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now, like three years later,
I'm still blowing away by that setting.

239
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And uh, you know, I
still feel weird about how funky like the

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our action RPG elements are in that
game, especially considering you can't, like,

241
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uh, you know, is to
kill someone with the assassin the hit

242
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and blade like at the beginning once
you get it, so you know,

243
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I'm still sort of wrestling with it
in some cases, but you know,

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I mean that's setting, man is
just so so good. Then you know,

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like, well, our friend Jordan
might have a little I've been telling

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00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:22.720
you people just get the second DLC
and you I'm still very I'm still very

247
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early on, but you know,
I'm like I remember Jordan mentioning then I'm

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like, you know, I gotta, I gotta do this because like this

249
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is just sort of like becoming untenable, like you know, just trying to

250
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you know, basically do the same
like sort of actions you would do another

251
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Assassin's Creed games, but you know, you sort of like hit the wall

252
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of like, well, your your
character doesn't have this particular stat or you

253
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don't have this particular item or equipment. So I'm like, all right,

254
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like I'm just looking forward to that
moment where I can actually do you know,

255
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the DLC missions and sort of like
just skip to that, you know,

256
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to get that stuff out of the
way. So yeah, are you

257
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are you finding yourself like consistently stopping
and taking screenshots because I also started,

258
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like a lot of people started Assassin
Squate origins again, and I put a

259
00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:08.960
lot of time into the game just
recently, and a lot of that time

260
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has spent taking screenshots. I actually
did that when I was reviewing the game

261
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:17.839
so much time, like you know, like you know sort of like taking

262
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screenshots using the photo mode and like
it's i mean just even now on PC

263
00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:25.799
it looks even better than it did
like before. So just I like just

264
00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:29.240
climbing up and just finding like a
good spot for me back to just sort

265
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of purge himself on sort of like
thinking with zoom out the camera and just

266
00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:36.119
get a good angle. Like it's
great, Like you know, just again

267
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that's setting is just so fantastic.
And also Baieck is such a great character,

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like and I are they are they
are so they they be smashing all

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the time, like you know,
like they're dynamic. Is it feels a

270
00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:52.799
genuine in a way that like because
every time you come to her and you're

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like okay, like we got to
do this mission, we got assassinate this

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00:20:55.720 --> 00:20:57.359
uh this one fool, and then
they're like all right, goodbye, my

273
00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:03.839
love, and then it's like okay, we'll smash real quick. Yeah.

274
00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:07.599
It's like it's like damn, yeah, okay. They're like rid or dive

275
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with each other. When I think
of like good video game comple couple like

276
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it's by a like if you hopefully
if things so, if things go away,

277
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we will have the voices of Bike
and I as part of game supposed

278
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:29.640
to play for all. They were
originally supposed to be tomorrow, but due

279
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:33.559
to some circumstances we've had to shift
it and we're currently rearranging so Things Crossed

280
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:38.000
will have them involved. But yeah, you're also playing Alessandro Streets of Rage

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00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:41.960
four. I am yeah, I
just I've beaten the game like five times,

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lay, I'm just like I'm just
taking control of each character, like

283
00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:49.599
you know it. The game really
isn't that long, so it's not like

284
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too much of like a time zinc, but I mean it's I mean,

285
00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:56.799
the game just feels so good,
like you know, I mean the guy's

286
00:21:56.839 --> 00:22:00.720
making it Lozard Cube and a Guard
Crush, like they just did a great

287
00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:06.079
job of not only respecting the original
games, like particularly the Streets of Rage

288
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two, which the game is sort
of like sort of framed modeled after and

289
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:14.400
on the mechanical level, but also
just the being insane like sort of art

290
00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:17.200
style, like you know, I
know, people are a little bummed out,

291
00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:18.440
like it's not you know, sort
of the sprite work, like you

292
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:22.359
know, Jennis style sprite work,
but it is I mean just the game

293
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:26.559
just has so much personality too.
And then like my one of my favorite

294
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.559
levels in the game is where you
sort of like fight through like an art

295
00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:32.680
gallery that's like you know, sort
of like half destroyed and like you know,

296
00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:34.559
you see like you know, really
vivid like pop arts sort of like

297
00:22:34.599 --> 00:22:37.480
coming from the background, like you
know, it's in like a lot of

298
00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:41.640
neon life sort of illuminating the battles
and stuff, and it's it's a really

299
00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:45.000
cool game. Like you know,
I'm it's easily like one of my top

300
00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:49.440
ten favorites of this year. So
yeah, I was like every time we

301
00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:53.799
repreviewed it, like a couple of
times throughout it's uh before it's released,

302
00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:57.319
and every time we played it at
like packs and stuff, we're all like,

303
00:22:57.799 --> 00:23:00.519
damn, that's that's pretty good.
Yeah, yeah, we are,

304
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:06.839
it's pretty good. Damn good.
Yeah. We actually got to play it

305
00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:10.680
with the developers at packs at Painston. We did like four player co op

306
00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:14.119
and there's that moment were almost got
like like one hundred hits and I was

307
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:19.759
like, I'll tell you everyone,
we're capturing right now. It was yeah,

308
00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:22.480
I mean, that was a lot
of fun, like you know,

309
00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:25.880
just then I'm glad. I'm so
glad they the final game turned out to

310
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:30.119
be just just amazing awesome. And
then Porland's three. Right, Oh yeah,

311
00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:33.480
I'm playing this game called Borderland three. You're still playing this game.

312
00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:40.480
We don't have to spend but Jordan
review and Asandra has played like a hundred

313
00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:45.440
times more than has every time I
walked past. Back in the day when

314
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:48.440
we still had desks and waiting officers, I've seen playing and I'm just like,

315
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:51.400
I was like, why why you
do? Now? We can't give

316
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:56.559
him ship though, because he's at
home playing it. According to Epic Games

317
00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:00.119
like Client I played to, I'm
not I'm really looking at it right now.

318
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:07.880
Actually I'm I've played up to twelve
days. It says that's too much.

319
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:11.759
Just really quickly, just really quickly. I just want to say that,

320
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:17.680
you know, I admit the story
is not great. I think it

321
00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:22.000
has some really weird like choices and
humor. I can say it's probably that

322
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:26.400
it is clearly the family guy of
video games as far as like you know,

323
00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:30.200
as far as like you know,
what it tries to do with pop

324
00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:32.519
culture, and like you know,
trying to make some you know, cute

325
00:24:32.599 --> 00:24:36.640
jokes with like you know, two
movies or whatever. But the shooting and

326
00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:40.839
the loot drive. Loot Drive is
just it's great. Like that's why I

327
00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:44.720
keep coming back to it. It's
agree with you, But like, what

328
00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:48.440
are you doing? Like what content
are you playing? Are you just playing

329
00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:52.839
with this characters? There's four characters
and you know they each I have to

330
00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:55.640
get them all to like a top
level, so I can, you know,

331
00:24:55.720 --> 00:25:00.759
try to get as much loot as
I can. So it's I'm already

332
00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:03.759
maxed out with the Flack, who's
the last character. So every other character

333
00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:07.200
is already maxed level at this point, but except Flack. So well,

334
00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:10.160
I mean, you know, you
do you man, as long as it

335
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:14.079
makes you happy. I'm doing me. I'm playing twelve. I played twelve

336
00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:22.759
worth of last three. I think
that's the math. Yeah that is,

337
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.519
let's just move on. I say, we can move on. You guys

338
00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:33.759
wanted to know that's that's our fault. So I have been playing loads of

339
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:41.680
percent five Royal Royal Royal damn fantastic
game takes a game that was exceptional and

340
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:48.240
pretty much makes it perfect. I
think, absolutely loving it and then I'm

341
00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:53.440
rewatching Avatar the last airben there because
you know it's also perfect. It's perfect

342
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:57.640
as well. Yeah, and I've
seen that show many times and I feel

343
00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:02.279
like I've gone and recommended it into
enough people now that I'm like, I

344
00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:04.160
should, I should put my money
why my mouth is, and also watch

345
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:11.440
it against watch it like watch it. Last I spoke to her is watching

346
00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:15.400
it. I think once Lucy returns, she'll talk about it as well,

347
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:19.160
because she's currently watching it. I
think there's the plan to do a spoiler

348
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:25.119
cast with me, you, Lucy, and Chair and Kelly Kelly. Kelly

349
00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:27.240
Kelly. The first one was like, hey, look this is perfect.

350
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:30.880
It's perfect. It's perfect. It
is, so we'll do that. But

351
00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:36.640
yeah, it is fantastic. Beyond
that, I've been mainly focusing on play

352
00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:41.400
for All, which leads us into
the kind of topics of discussion for this

353
00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:47.319
week. A lot of stuff has
happened over the last week in terms of

354
00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:52.039
gaming news. There's been events that
have come and gone, the biggest one

355
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:57.119
being the PlayStation five reveal event,
which was set for Thursday. That's right,

356
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:03.079
yeah, Thursday, and has now
been canceled. I think it's not

357
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:07.440
as important to talk about in the
minetia of the events that are canceled more

358
00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:11.759
than why it was canceled. So
I think it's a good opportunity to have

359
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:18.279
that discussion and reflect upon that.
Obviously, we're talking about the Black Lives

360
00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:26.240
Matter movement. You know, there's
the awful events around the brutality towards George

361
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:30.759
Floyd and the resulting movement that has
come out has you know, for want

362
00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:37.880
of a better phrase, swept the
nation. But yeah, so the events

363
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:44.799
in gaming are rightly so stepping the
side for those discussions to happen. So

364
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:48.279
PlayStation five reveil event has been,
you know, kind of put on the

365
00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:52.920
back burner. I think it feels
like I need to insert a question in

366
00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:56.519
here to create a discussion, and
the only question you can really ask is

367
00:27:56.799 --> 00:28:00.880
a bad question, which is do
you think that was the right decision?

368
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:03.200
That's not the question I want to
ask, But I just want to throw

369
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:07.160
to you guys and let you say
your piece and what's happening and how you

370
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:10.920
feel about it, and why do
you think it's important? Because there might

371
00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:14.119
be some people who are listening to
this that we hope and we know that

372
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:18.279
the people that listen to this or
podcasts are people that support and have open

373
00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:22.960
minds and are very welcoming and have
open hearts to this stuff. But there

374
00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:27.599
might be a person who doesn't understand
what's going on. So for those people,

375
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:32.839
you know, say your pieces and
and you know, how do you

376
00:28:32.839 --> 00:28:34.920
feel about this what's going on?
And the fact that these companies are being

377
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:37.920
vocal. What's it like to finally
see a lot of these companies step out

378
00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:41.880
and be like, yeah, this
is important to us. Well, I

379
00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:48.920
mean, it's it's it's basically just
like a culmination of the perfect storm,

380
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:52.640
you know, like all of these
feelings and emotions. Like it's not like

381
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.720
all of a sudden, let's care
about black lives matter, Like there have

382
00:28:56.480 --> 00:29:00.559
been protests, there have been people's
out about it. There have been people

383
00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:07.000
of color and specifically black people talking
about this in our industry and other industries

384
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:11.640
for years and years long before me, Like I'm the youngest one here,

385
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:15.039
I'm twenty six. Like my rage
hasn't like festered to like the quiet anger

386
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:19.960
yet I'm not old enough yet for
that to have happened. But just given

387
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:26.200
the fact that something like this could
have happened while everyone's stuck at home because

388
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:30.279
of COVID nineteen, while Trump is
president, while it's the summer, so

389
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:34.160
it's really like hottest, Like all
of these things have kind of like boiled

390
00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:40.160
together to create this like boiling point
to the extent that people are like,

391
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:44.240
Okay, we need to take stock
and really look at this. And I

392
00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:47.359
would have liked if we could have
like just taken stockman, like, you

393
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:51.599
know, we should actually talk about
these issues and come up with solutions without

394
00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:56.440
another black person being shot by a
police officer. But here we are.

395
00:29:56.759 --> 00:30:02.319
The conversation is happening. Again.
It's a good conversation to have. I

396
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:07.160
feel like there isn't easy like answer
to whether or not this was a good

397
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:11.599
step to take. I hope that
the people listening to this kind of agree

398
00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:15.079
that this was a good step to
take. But at the very least,

399
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:18.000
like the conversation is happening, and
it's a conversation that we've had a dozen

400
00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:22.359
times before, And honestly, I'm
just worried that it's going to be a

401
00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:26.079
conversation that we're going to have dozens
of times in the future. But I

402
00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:34.519
hope I'm wrong if I made Yeah, just a common sentiment I saw was

403
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:37.839
that a lot of people were sort
of looking forward to the event as a

404
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:41.359
sort of like a break from like
a lot of what's been happening just that

405
00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:45.440
even before this, like you know, what happened with a George Flynn,

406
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:52.880
George Floyd. Just you know,
I'm on one end, I can understand

407
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:55.640
that sort of mindset. But at
the same time, this isn't the I

408
00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:59.279
mean, this isn't the time for
escapism, you know, I mean,

409
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:00.839
this is a time where we everyone
needs to listen, you know, to

410
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:04.359
people that really need to be heard. And you know, I I do

411
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:10.720
appreciate that, uh, that PlayStation
you know, Sony decided that this this

412
00:31:10.759 --> 00:31:12.880
event wasn't there the right time.
It wasn't the right time to do this

413
00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:18.240
event, and uh but at the
same time, I do feel like for

414
00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:21.400
the audience in general, I do
feel like it's important for you know,

415
00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:25.240
as Jordan said, just to you
know, listen to the people, listen

416
00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:27.200
to you know, the communities,
like the people that have been trying to

417
00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:32.160
be heard, you know, just
trying to you know, have their voice,

418
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:34.480
you know, in the community as
well. So that on one end,

419
00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:37.839
that's why I really appreciate, you
know, just the fact that we're

420
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:40.480
just last few days we're trying to
you know, sort of prop up people

421
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:42.440
like you know within our you know, the games industry, like you know,

422
00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:45.400
uh, you know, writers of
color, content creators of color,

423
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:49.680
like you know, Clif Adams from
a spawn on me and uh uh you

424
00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:53.039
know Blessing from kind of Funny,
who has just been fantastic. It's been

425
00:31:53.079 --> 00:31:56.359
really great seeing him sort of blow
up and like, you know, really

426
00:31:56.559 --> 00:31:59.039
you know, make a name for
himself. And even you, Jordan,

427
00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:00.839
I mean, you're you're you've really
you know, just you've been here for

428
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:06.039
two years. I mean you've you've
been just a fantastic like addition to the

429
00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:08.680
team, and you know, just
uh, I think it's important for people

430
00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:12.920
to recognize that, you know,
there are people of you know, a

431
00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:16.160
certain perspective that you know that have
a voice, and you know that perspective

432
00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:22.480
is needed and that perspective is necessary, and that that's something that people will

433
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:25.720
need to you know, sort of
listen more to. So yeah, that's

434
00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:29.319
kind of what I was, That's
kind of what I've been feeling the last

435
00:32:29.319 --> 00:32:32.720
few days, if that makes sense. So yeah, yeah, I mean

436
00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:37.640
when Tam and I kicked off the
play for All event on Monday, and

437
00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:43.920
we had to stream where we we
got a really sudden shift towards to support

438
00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:47.680
Black Lives Matter with the Play for
All event, which I'm more than happy

439
00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:52.160
that we're doing, like like yo, we're let's let's like, let's do

440
00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:58.279
this. This is this is like
invigorating for for us to make that move

441
00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:01.079
for donations and all that, and
it was, it was. It was

442
00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:05.160
a little weird though, because like
I was, I was actually down here

443
00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:10.559
in Oakland when I got like a
Slack message saying we're shifting. We would

444
00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:15.079
we want to have you on talk
about these talk about these issues live on

445
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:23.279
air, and I'm like, yes, I I think I can articulate that

446
00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:28.839
the reason with the audience that you
know why we are making the shift and

447
00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:34.359
why it makes sense and why we
should partake in the fight for black justice.

448
00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:37.079
And you know, I would we
say this many times, like Tam

449
00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:40.480
and I are non black people of
color, So that's an important perspective to

450
00:33:40.519 --> 00:33:46.839
internalize for us, because you know, we like the term ally should be

451
00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:52.440
we shouldn't need to say that we
should already be allies by default, but

452
00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:57.440
we need to turn that into like, okay, yes we agree that black

453
00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:00.799
justice is a thing that needs to
be fought for, and but we need

454
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:04.440
to turn that into action. So
there's a lot of ways to support,

455
00:34:04.519 --> 00:34:08.239
you know, monetarily with bail funds
for people who are protesting, giving to

456
00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:14.440
Black Lives Matter, because that's an
actual organized movement. That's you know,

457
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:19.079
you'll see a lot of like bad
actors co opting that Black Lives matter as

458
00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:22.800
like, oh, it's just like
a bunch of it's not organized, it's

459
00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:27.639
just people trying to cause chaos.
Like nah, it's an organized movement and

460
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:30.840
they're making changes. And I say
this all time too, is that like

461
00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:36.920
yo, if you like all like
I will not even say it, but

462
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:42.360
all lives won't matter until black lives
matter. Everyone's been making like a lot

463
00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:45.000
of good people have been making.
The analogy is that like you know,

464
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:46.920
if you go to a doctor and
you have a broken bone, you know

465
00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:50.199
doctor is not going to look at
all your bones. You're gonna look at

466
00:34:50.199 --> 00:34:52.440
the one that that needs attention,
that the one that's hurting. Like,

467
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:55.719
yes, of course all of your
bones matter. Yes, that is a

468
00:34:55.719 --> 00:35:00.320
given. No one needs to say
that, pay attention to the one is

469
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:04.159
hurting, and support like make sure
that you make things right there. So

470
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:09.000
that's that's how people should feel about
Black Lives Matter. I know the after

471
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:14.960
Dark audiences they're very good people and
like they're very receptive to us. But

472
00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:17.119
I just want to make sure that
the folks who do listen to after Dark

473
00:35:17.239 --> 00:35:22.840
understand one where we stand, of
course, but also too if they're if

474
00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:29.039
they have any hesitancy in supporting Black
Lives Matter and the protests that have happened

475
00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:32.559
in fifty states. When was the
last time that something happened in all fifty

476
00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:38.000
states at one time? Globally too, you see it all around the globe,

477
00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:42.440
is that people are protesting, taking
to the streets, and there's there's

478
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:45.039
a reason why that's happening. And
I hope that everyone who listens to this

479
00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:49.679
podcast can get behind that. You
know, we're obviously doing a fundraiser,

480
00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:53.719
but uh, and we're trying to
use our platform to draw attention and that's

481
00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:58.440
that's really important. And I hope
that you know, it's it doesn't stop

482
00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:05.360
at donations. It you know,
internalize what you're being, what you're learning,

483
00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:07.800
and take that and continue that.
And for us, like you know,

484
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:12.360
obviously, like white people, y'all
need to keep y'all folks in check

485
00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:15.760
and let let let them know,
like what your role is in this,

486
00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:22.280
Like this isn't Black people shouldn't have
to be fighting on their own for this.

487
00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:25.760
And then like even like for people
of color, like listen, Filipino,

488
00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:30.239
older Filipinos can be racist as fun. I'm gonna keep it real with

489
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:36.679
you, Like an older generation has
internalized colonialism in a big way and it's

490
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:39.039
a big problem. And I think
we need to realize that, you know,

491
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:44.559
people of color can be racist towards
black people too, and it's a

492
00:36:44.599 --> 00:36:50.440
reality we need to face. And
for us who who are obviously like want

493
00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:52.480
to fight against that, we need
to take that into our own communities,

494
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:58.599
like we need to we need to
communicate that to our own people as well

495
00:36:58.679 --> 00:37:01.199
to get them on board, to
change their minds, to make them realize

496
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:05.920
that this is something that they should
be fighting for. Two and not to

497
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:09.719
be racist as shit. Like that's
like it's it's easy, but it's very

498
00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:14.840
hard to get through to some people, and like I need to do that,

499
00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:19.239
Like I text my friends. I'm
having conversations like my mom and my

500
00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:23.239
my other parents about this, Like
because I got to text, like why

501
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:28.599
are you down in the protests,
like because like this is some shit we

502
00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:30.840
need to do, Like why why
are you? Like why are you pressing

503
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:35.400
me on this? Like yeah,
I don't know. It hurts. It

504
00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:38.199
hurts, dude, Like I mean, like what, Like what's there?

505
00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:44.760
There's a there's a generation of it's
the same within like not Pakistani, yeah,

506
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:50.079
Pakistanian, like Muslim communities as well, where it's like, because you're

507
00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:54.400
not the target, they don't feel
A lot of people may not feel the

508
00:37:55.079 --> 00:38:00.239
need to get involved. And I'm
sure there's a lot of listeners that have

509
00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:06.159
situations that are similar with family members
or friends, and often it just takes

510
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:12.840
you to remind them of the smaller
that the discrimination that they might have had,

511
00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:15.119
or their parents might have spoken about
in their lives. That is a

512
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:20.880
fraction of what is happening to black
people right now. Like must Oftimes,

513
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:25.039
for example, have gone through some
stuff themselves, and I found it powerful

514
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:29.880
in speaking to my friends and family
just reminding them of how they felt in

515
00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:34.480
a moment when someone was screaming terrorists
at them as they walk down the street,

516
00:38:34.519 --> 00:38:37.880
in the way that I have had
that pain that you felt. Imagine

517
00:38:37.880 --> 00:38:42.280
if that wasn't just a thing that
you could walk away from and it stuck

518
00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:45.920
with you for maybe a few days. Imagine if that moment escalated every single

519
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:51.079
time and your life was on the
line. And that's that's that's kind of

520
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:54.679
what has helped break through to some
people. And it's important for even if

521
00:38:54.679 --> 00:38:59.800
you're not colored, to remember that
those are moments of danger that you feel

522
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:04.800
have felt in your life. You
know, you know, the real ones.

523
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:08.239
They pop up in your mind and
they horrify you. Like when you

524
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:14.199
remember those circumstances and the context around
it, they can make you feel like

525
00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:19.440
in trouble again. Imagine if that
was your every single day, if that

526
00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:22.920
was your moment, the moment you
walk to, the moment you slept,

527
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:27.119
every single day you were you had
to prepare yourself to expect one of those

528
00:39:27.159 --> 00:39:30.719
every day. That's no way to
live man's and you owe it to yourself

529
00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:34.679
and you owe it to the people
around you to stand up and say something

530
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:39.280
and yeah, it's it's just essential. It's not a thing that you should

531
00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:43.920
be thinking about doing. You just
need to do. And that's meant the

532
00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:49.199
big reason why we introduced not introduced, but we felt it was necessary to

533
00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:53.360
have the Black Lives Matter kind of
fundraiser element to play for all. It

534
00:39:53.480 --> 00:39:59.719
was something that came together very very
quickly. But it was not a discussion.

535
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:02.320
It wasn't whether we should do this, It was how can we do

536
00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:07.199
this as quickly as possible? And
the result is what you're getting now.

537
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:10.719
It's not as elegant as everything as
we would perhaps want it to be.

538
00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:15.639
We're still kind of pivoting on things
we're introducing. You know, we started

539
00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:20.840
with one donation method and then we
had to kind of fold in another one

540
00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:22.480
on top so we could actually track
the thing. The money is still all

541
00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:27.000
going to Black Lives Matter, and
now we can track it so and you

542
00:40:27.039 --> 00:40:30.960
know, the articles that are coming
together a very last minute, Like Jordan,

543
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:37.920
bless him, he worked until like
nine pm to kind of get that

544
00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:42.519
article up because then I got to
do to I mean, like I was,

545
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:44.760
I was there, whether you trying
to make sure. I was like

546
00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:46.719
please, I'm sorry, Like I
felt bad because it was on a day

547
00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:52.000
that we told everyone, don't write, don't work, You're not doing anything.

548
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:53.760
All we're going to do today is
amplify black voices. And that's what

549
00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:57.760
we tried to do. But in
order to do that. The day before,

550
00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:00.480
we had to prepare an article to
show to show people that we're going

551
00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:05.519
to do that and give people something
to read and Jordan to point on that,

552
00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:09.440
and then the follow up article where
we've been inviting people to reach out

553
00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:15.039
to us on Twitter and suggest names
of black creators and voices that we could

554
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:17.440
highlight, and then we put them
all in a separate article that's on site

555
00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:22.079
as well, and you should seek
it out and follow those people, watch

556
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:24.800
their streams. They all have valuable, unique perspectives. But that came together

557
00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:30.400
a very not last minute, but
in a rush. But that's kind of

558
00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:35.239
what Playful All has been and it's
what it's needed to be and we're going

559
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:38.519
to continue to push that over the
coming six weeks and beyond. I think

560
00:41:39.079 --> 00:41:44.440
the one thing that's important to note
is like game Spot as a team is

561
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:50.119
diverse. I think you guys feel
the same way, where this matters to

562
00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:54.039
every single one of us, and
we will continue to push on this and

563
00:41:55.079 --> 00:42:00.719
highlight how important it is for us
to amplify these black voices and support black

564
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:06.480
voices and members of the community and
black people as a whole. Yeah,

565
00:42:07.719 --> 00:42:10.519
especially when it when it comes to
like black people in the industry, Like,

566
00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:15.760
obviously our audience is gonna be gravitating
towards gaming. And there are a

567
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:20.880
lot of black voices in gaming who
have been doing this for a very long

568
00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:27.559
time. And I've been following them
because I mean because they're they're they're great

569
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:34.280
creators, but they're all like having
my timeline full with all these perspectives over

570
00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:38.719
time gives you perspective. You learn
from just following, like simply following on

571
00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:42.360
the work. That's like the bare
minimum you can do is like listen,

572
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:46.960
listen to them. It might like
not everything is going to be about race

573
00:42:47.199 --> 00:42:54.400
or LGBTQ issues or things like that, but just their perspective on anything else

574
00:42:54.599 --> 00:43:00.760
on games like Death Stranding or on
Apex like Assandro and Jordan, Like just

575
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:07.400
having listening to their perspective, seeing
it and normalizing that if you haven't already,

576
00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:10.599
is like that's a step everyone should
be taking. And that's kind of

577
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:15.360
like why I think it's valuable that
like, Okay, yeah, I I

578
00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:17.760
follow them, but I need to
let other folks know that y'all should be

579
00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:23.239
following them too, and uh yeah, over time, it's very much like

580
00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:28.760
taught me a lot and I talked
to calif Adams about that too, and

581
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:31.840
on Spawn on Me, which you
all should be following as well. That

582
00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:37.519
you know, it's very important to
diversify your your your timeline and people you

583
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:44.559
follow, especially like black women in
in gaming, Like you gotta seek them

584
00:43:44.559 --> 00:43:49.000
out too, for all sorts of
reasons. But you will. You'll learn

585
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:54.400
a lot and get like valuable perspective
on games. Yeah, but you got

586
00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:58.920
to make sure that you like as
a caveat, like make sure that you

587
00:43:59.039 --> 00:44:04.400
reach out to the diverse voices in
the right way. There's a very unfortunate

588
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:08.079
trend in I can really only speak
to the gaming industry because it's the one

589
00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:12.199
that I know the best, but
I'm sure that it extends to others to

590
00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:20.199
profit off of the pain of minorities, especially people of color, especially woman

591
00:44:20.239 --> 00:44:23.880
where if you have a game that
handles race, or has a game that

592
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:30.039
handles gender or anything that could be
considered a minority, to let someone of

593
00:44:30.119 --> 00:44:34.920
color or a woman or another minority
to cover this game, for them to

594
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:42.039
provide their perspective, kind of knowing
that the article that they will write,

595
00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:46.440
though will be insightful, will also
be the type of article that like the

596
00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:51.480
Internet being the Internet is going to
jump on and is going to get mad

597
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:58.840
clicks and be very popular. It's
easy to see how you can use someone's

598
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:04.119
diversity to you benefit yourself and kind
of still pat yourself on the back by

599
00:45:04.199 --> 00:45:07.079
saying like, oh, I did
something that I allowed this black voice to

600
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:12.199
speak out about this black person in
the video game. And that's really not

601
00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:16.039
the right way to go about it. I always tell people, like,

602
00:45:16.039 --> 00:45:21.960
it's much less about diversity as it
is about inclusivity, Like that's one of

603
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.639
the things I appreciate most about games, what like are there more ways that

604
00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:29.920
we could improve our diversity quota?
Absolutely? But it is also a site

605
00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:32.840
that I joined, and it's not
like on the very first day, Tam

606
00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:37.159
and Chris like sat down with me
and like, okay, Jordan, how

607
00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:39.599
many like black video games do you
want to write about? Like they didn't

608
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:44.840
just immediately jump on that for me
to cover. It's like cover whatever you

609
00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:49.880
want, and if a story presents
itself that ties into who you are,

610
00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:53.880
will support you when you want to
pitch it and critique it and offer our

611
00:45:53.920 --> 00:45:58.320
feedback and we'll work through it and
then the article will come out. And

612
00:45:58.360 --> 00:46:02.719
that's a good way to handle that
situation, and that only comes if you

613
00:46:02.840 --> 00:46:07.760
have a lot of people who are
diverse like on your staff. Like,

614
00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:14.880
one of the things that I've kind
of like seen that annoys me like just

615
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:20.119
a little bit is the aspect that
when giant, huge Triple A games come

616
00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:23.679
out, like the go To,
they only get like one or two codes

617
00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:27.719
given to each outlet. It's always
been this way, it will probably continue

618
00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:30.639
to always be this way, and
they do it, I assume they do

619
00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:32.199
it this way just to make sure
that the game doesn't leak or anything like

620
00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:37.199
that, but by only one or
two codes going out to people, when

621
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:42.360
it's Giant Triple A games, Assassin's
Creed, Call of Duty, Last of

622
00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:46.559
a Cyberpunk, usually the people who
are going to review those games are the

623
00:46:46.599 --> 00:46:51.400
reviews editor, the managing editor,
or the editor in chief, the people

624
00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:55.679
that the site trust the most to
handle those giant games. And the fact

625
00:46:55.719 --> 00:46:59.480
of the matter is most of those
people across their industry are white. Like

626
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:02.960
black people don't get very high up
in the grand scheme of things when it

627
00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:08.400
comes to these websites. So you
have to pull in these diverse voices,

628
00:47:08.440 --> 00:47:13.000
but then you have to keep them
around long enough and promote them long enough

629
00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:16.280
so that when a giant game like
Last of Us Part two or Cyberpunk twenty

630
00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:22.519
seventy seven comes around, they're in
a position to then analyze that game and

631
00:47:22.599 --> 00:47:27.480
possibly get something out of it that
they're white counterparts. Might not am I

632
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:30.760
saying like, oh, there's every
black person should have reviewed Last of Us?

633
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:34.960
Like No, obviously not, Like
That's not what I'm saying at all.

634
00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:37.039
I'm just saying, like, just
looking at Twitter, you can see

635
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:42.800
that a majority of the people reviewing
that game are white, So a majority

636
00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:47.239
of the reviews will be from a
white perspective, which maybe won't matter.

637
00:47:47.400 --> 00:47:51.800
Maybe Last of Us Part two doesn't
look at race in any conceivable way,

638
00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:54.840
shape or form, but it is
something to at least consider that. Are

639
00:47:54.880 --> 00:48:00.760
we basically setting ourselves up for failure
if we just have the same core group

640
00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:04.800
of people reviewing the same games over
and over and over again, and you

641
00:48:04.840 --> 00:48:07.400
have you have to attract those voices
in first. You have to promote them

642
00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:12.559
up and give them a chance if
you want things to change for sure.

643
00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:17.280
And uh, you know, just
one thing that you know, I just

644
00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:22.480
really think is important is that you
know a lot of these you know article

645
00:48:22.519 --> 00:48:27.119
I like a features about the black
perspective. You know, they get they

646
00:48:27.159 --> 00:48:30.239
tend to you know, become more
relevant with age, Like I noticed that

647
00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:36.480
you know from US Gamer, from
Jeffrey Russo about black journalists in the games

648
00:48:36.519 --> 00:48:39.400
industry, like a you know,
that's especially relevant right now, like just

649
00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:43.079
thinking about it, like you know, and especially seeing like you know,

650
00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:45.559
just especially over the last few days, you know, how many just you

651
00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:50.920
know, the wealth of you know, sort of black perspective there is within

652
00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:53.039
our industry, like you know,
amount of writers and content creators there are,

653
00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:57.920
and you know it is you know, it's especially frustrating to see that,

654
00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:00.159
you know, they haven't been given
that opportunity even though they have the

655
00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:04.599
talent, they have the following,
they have their own personal following, and

656
00:49:05.039 --> 00:49:07.400
you know, but it's like you
know again, it's just in a lot

657
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:10.800
of ways, it just focuses on
like I guess, our our system where

658
00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:14.960
you know, the big fish tend
to get a lot of the attention or

659
00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:19.039
whatever. But but even like you
know, for us, like I can

660
00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:21.880
I feel like I can speak for
us, like we we do think about

661
00:49:22.039 --> 00:49:23.360
like you know, a lot articles
like this, you know, focusing on

662
00:49:23.719 --> 00:49:28.199
the black perspective, you know,
other you know, kind of groups from

663
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:32.480
minority groups or you know, like
I remember our one of our last features,

664
00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:36.960
Beatings and what in the office,
like we were pitching around ideas.

665
00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:39.800
You know, it wasn't necessarily themed
around you know obviously black history or other

666
00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:43.920
or whatever. It was just in
the now we were thinking about our own

667
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:47.039
perspecture experiences now like you know,
it was like, you know, just

668
00:49:47.920 --> 00:49:52.320
actually an article I thought about,
like you know, I was really trying

669
00:49:52.360 --> 00:49:54.519
to get going but just didn't work
out for a variety of reasons. Was

670
00:49:54.639 --> 00:49:59.280
you know, what it means for
a video game to have a strong black

671
00:49:59.360 --> 00:50:02.280
lead. And you know, and
uh I touched a bit on that like

672
00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:07.320
in the past with a far Cry
article which got repromoted the last few days.

673
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:12.039
And as I Jordan said, and
like sometimes there's an article that just

674
00:50:12.079 --> 00:50:14.960
sort of picks up, maybe it
gets a lot of attention, you know,

675
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:16.960
maybe in some ways you may not
expect. But you know, I

676
00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:22.719
still feel strongly about that article because
it was my experience, and it was

677
00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:25.960
an experience that maybe a lot of
people really you know sort of wouldn't necessarily

678
00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:29.719
think of, like when they play
a big budget game like that, you

679
00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:30.880
know, like, you know,
that's something I think of and I'm sure

680
00:50:31.039 --> 00:50:34.400
that something a lot of people would
think of as well, Like you know,

681
00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:37.840
what is what's it like playing Farcry
five as a black character, and

682
00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:42.079
you know that that made me feel
very anxious and honestly, after just seeing

683
00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:45.639
how things went last two years,
I feel like I was on the money

684
00:50:45.639 --> 00:50:49.119
without article, but you know,
it was just it's it's a trip,

685
00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:52.599
like you know, just seeing how
things have turned out, and you know,

686
00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:57.239
I do feel like one of the
greatest things about video games, not

687
00:50:57.320 --> 00:51:00.159
only were the fact that you know, obviously it's you know, it's about

688
00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:04.800
bringing people together, but you know
the level of escapism and an offer.

689
00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:07.960
But at the same time, you
know, as I said earlier, it's

690
00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:12.199
important just to listen, you know, to you know, different perspectives on

691
00:51:12.519 --> 00:51:15.960
the escapism that we sort of like
dive into, Like you know, because

692
00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:20.639
I remember with Cyberpunk, like people
were showed concerns about how they portrayed people

693
00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:22.920
of color in that game, and
uh, you know I I preview the

694
00:51:22.920 --> 00:51:25.199
game and I felt that it felt
the same way too, Like you know,

695
00:51:25.239 --> 00:51:29.000
I is this like, you know, is it doing the right thing.

696
00:51:29.079 --> 00:51:31.000
Like I understand it's an extrapolation of
our current times, but you know,

697
00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:37.039
I mean, obviously things aren't you
know things, It's important to have

698
00:51:37.199 --> 00:51:40.800
like a different perspective in the making
of the games as well. And you

699
00:51:40.800 --> 00:51:45.119
know, I I wish, you
know, uh developers would keep that in

700
00:51:45.199 --> 00:51:47.079
mind. But you know, I
feel like the only way to do that

701
00:51:47.239 --> 00:51:52.480
is to have more people of color, you know, women especially more women

702
00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:57.400
especially, you know, to be
able to have their experiences with the games

703
00:51:57.400 --> 00:51:59.960
that we spend so much time with, you know, heard and you know,

704
00:52:00.519 --> 00:52:05.000
and you know, just and again
like you for our listeners, like

705
00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:07.960
you know, I you know that
our desire to have more of these you

706
00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:14.360
know sort of experiences is there is
just you know again just it's a it's

707
00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:15.800
it's very tricky trying to you know, trying to you know, be able

708
00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:20.440
to bring in enough people, you
know, just to find the right opportunities

709
00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:25.760
to do it. So yeah,
I mean that's yeah, I IM sorry.

710
00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:31.000
I was saying this just recently in
light of its very inside baseball,

711
00:52:31.039 --> 00:52:37.039
but in light of a certain tweet, I will say straight up that you

712
00:52:37.079 --> 00:52:42.119
know, I I think that you
know, the at least how I feel

713
00:52:42.199 --> 00:52:45.440
is at the root of the problem, or a one of the roots of

714
00:52:45.480 --> 00:52:55.239
the problem is that we don't have
black and people of color in decision making

715
00:52:55.239 --> 00:53:00.400
positions. Now, I'm not saying
that we should be made bosses, straight

716
00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:05.000
up, I'm not saying that we
need to be executives. Yeah, I

717
00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:07.960
like to say, yo, I
could barely handle my shit. Please don't

718
00:53:07.960 --> 00:53:12.239
make me in charge of other people's
shit. But what I'm what I'm trying

719
00:53:12.280 --> 00:53:16.320
to say with that is that we
see a lot of like as as well

720
00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:22.079
intentioned as it might be, we
see messages fucked up all the time at

721
00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:25.519
its core, and people get dragged
for them and they face the consequences because

722
00:53:25.840 --> 00:53:30.199
because of that, and the root
of the problem is that you don't have

723
00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:36.480
people with perspective in decision making positions. And like I said, I want,

724
00:53:36.719 --> 00:53:38.679
I want to be bossed. But
what I mean by that is that

725
00:53:39.320 --> 00:53:43.199
we need to be in on those
conversations. We need to be able to

726
00:53:43.280 --> 00:53:47.639
influence how those things are communicated.
So y'all don't fuck it up, and

727
00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:55.320
you come from a genuine place rather
than being like, oh, I'm white,

728
00:53:54.960 --> 00:54:00.280
I have I'm so ignorant, please
educate me, Like, no,

729
00:54:00.559 --> 00:54:05.400
that's that's you shouldn't be saying that, bro, Like you should be proactive

730
00:54:05.440 --> 00:54:07.159
in that, and we can be
the ones to tell you, like,

731
00:54:07.239 --> 00:54:10.880
no, don't say that, don't
say that. This is do this first,

732
00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:14.440
all right, we have this,
like think about this first, and

733
00:54:14.480 --> 00:54:19.840
if we're in the room with those
conversations, then it would do it would

734
00:54:19.840 --> 00:54:22.599
do them a lot of favors.
Man, like a thirty second conversation like

735
00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:24.920
just be right, hey, is
this a good idea to do? We'll

736
00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:28.880
look at and be like like no, or yeah, sure, you can

737
00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:34.239
probably do that. I think the
big the only thing only good can come

738
00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:39.480
from surrounding yourself with unique perspectives that
you don't have. That's the there is

739
00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:45.599
no downside to it. You learn
and you open your mind up to different

740
00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:51.000
ways of thinking, and that extends
to everything, like not just decisions that

741
00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:53.199
need to be made, whether you're
on a corporate ladder and you're thinking about

742
00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:58.599
whether a tweet should or shouldn't go
out, that it doesn't just benefit that,

743
00:54:58.920 --> 00:55:01.559
it's you as a gamer. We
want to try and make this applicable

744
00:55:01.599 --> 00:55:07.159
to our audience, which are people
that love games. There's probably things happening

745
00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:09.039
in the games that you play on
a day to day basis that you just

746
00:55:09.079 --> 00:55:15.519
have no clue about, and by
surrounding yourself, following speaking to reading the

747
00:55:15.559 --> 00:55:21.880
work of people who have unique voices
that come from unique perspectives, the only

748
00:55:21.880 --> 00:55:28.039
thing you're doing is making yourself smarter, finding new nuances to games that you

749
00:55:28.159 --> 00:55:30.599
probably already have played, no love, just like whatever it may be,

750
00:55:31.719 --> 00:55:39.480
and then improving games as a whole. The upside of supporting colored people,

751
00:55:39.880 --> 00:55:45.320
black people, black voices, you
know, non black people of color voices

752
00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:52.519
is everything gets better everything And the
way you do that is by surrounding yourself

753
00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:58.639
with them and speaking to them and
pushing them forward, letting them lead the

754
00:55:58.760 --> 00:56:01.760
way. And that's what Play for
All is about. That's what Black Lives

755
00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:07.000
Matter is about, and that's what
we want to support. And you can

756
00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:13.039
do that in so many ways.
You can read Jordan's article is Art Calls,

757
00:56:13.079 --> 00:56:16.800
where there's literature on how you can
educate yourself about the struggles that black

758
00:56:16.840 --> 00:56:22.119
people face, and there's also links
there to black creators. Everything you need

759
00:56:22.480 --> 00:56:25.039
is not everything, but a lot
of what you need is there. The

760
00:56:25.079 --> 00:56:30.079
springboard is there for you to jump
off of use it, and then you

761
00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:37.760
can help it please, and you
can go to bit dot l y forward,

762
00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:43.360
slash gs hyphen BLM and donate.
That's that's our that's our Black Lives

763
00:56:43.400 --> 00:56:46.360
Matter donation link. We're going to
be using it, you know, throughout

764
00:56:46.400 --> 00:56:50.000
their six weeks. You don't have
to use our one. If there's another

765
00:56:50.039 --> 00:56:52.679
one, go and find it and
use it. We're not saying we're not

766
00:56:52.679 --> 00:56:54.559
getting anything out of this. Ultimately, our goal is to support the cause.

767
00:56:54.920 --> 00:56:58.519
If you want to go directly to
them and not use our bit lee

768
00:56:58.559 --> 00:57:00.079
link. All that we're doing is
tracking it through that so we know,

769
00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:07.519
but go and just support the core, support the movement, and trust us.

770
00:57:07.159 --> 00:57:10.679
Like I'm like Michael said, I'm
not a person you know, I'm

771
00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:13.639
a black. I'm not a black
person. I'm a person of color,

772
00:57:13.760 --> 00:57:16.159
same with I am. But everything
that Alessandro has said today, everything that

773
00:57:16.239 --> 00:57:21.239
Jordan has said today, we all
one hundred percent agree with. We're all

774
00:57:21.280 --> 00:57:25.639
back and they have been saying things
get better if you support those voices to

775
00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:30.280
do that. Having said that,
I think we're going to end the podcast

776
00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:36.639
here. Ordinarily we would have a
questions listener questions sections. We do have.

777
00:57:37.039 --> 00:57:40.800
We have questions from the audience and
they're great, and they are.

778
00:57:42.840 --> 00:57:45.960
They've been sent in through to Afterdok
podcast at games but dot com and also

779
00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:50.599
on our discord channel, so that
if you want to get access, hit

780
00:57:50.719 --> 00:57:53.719
myself up or I Am, or
Jake or John Luke or anyone else that

781
00:57:53.880 --> 00:57:57.920
is on the GameSpot team, or
we can get you in. They are

782
00:57:57.960 --> 00:58:01.039
of a certain tone though, the
tone being they're lighthearted. Some of them

783
00:58:01.079 --> 00:58:06.800
they you know, talk about what
stuff you like in outside of games and

784
00:58:07.239 --> 00:58:12.119
very much not in line with the
tone of what's happening right now. So

785
00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:19.599
I think it is worth pushing those
questions to next week so we can leave

786
00:58:19.639 --> 00:58:22.079
you with the message that you should
support Black Lives matter. You should read

787
00:58:22.199 --> 00:58:28.440
up on the perspectives that are important
and do your best to educate yourself,

788
00:58:28.840 --> 00:58:32.920
support those people, and do the
same for the people around you. Jordan,

789
00:58:34.159 --> 00:58:37.159
where can people find you? On
Twitter? They can find me at

790
00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:45.239
j M r am Ee for basically
just a bunch of stupid anime and apex

791
00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:51.679
legend shit him where you're at and
what you've got, You can find me

792
00:58:51.920 --> 00:58:57.119
and all of my bullshit at Michael
P. Higham on Twitter, and yeah,

793
00:58:57.480 --> 00:59:01.239
engage with the things I say or
do or don't because I get nervous

794
00:59:01.239 --> 00:59:05.039
when people follow me, and then
I'll be like, oh damn, now

795
00:59:05.039 --> 00:59:08.639
I gotta shit. It makes me
nervous, but a I appreciate it.

796
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:13.199
But yeah, we're follow all of
us. We're all doing great work.

797
00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:15.079
Play for All is popping off,
and a lot of people are putting a

798
00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:19.599
lot of time and effort into those
things and just everything on site. Like

799
00:59:19.639 --> 00:59:22.920
everyone's putting in a lot of good
work. So you know, it's not

800
00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:27.559
about me follow game spotting all the
people around and check out that that article

801
00:59:27.639 --> 00:59:32.440
that Jordan and all of us pitched
in to see check out those perspectives that

802
00:59:32.760 --> 00:59:38.239
you may not have had otherwise,
Calesandro, Why people can people find you

803
00:59:38.280 --> 00:59:43.320
what you got? Yeah? You
can find me on Twitter at a flor

804
00:59:43.559 --> 00:59:46.519
A f I L A r I. I basically share some of my articles

805
00:59:46.519 --> 00:59:51.840
but also the great articles from other
outlets as well, and she'll also share

806
00:59:51.840 --> 00:59:54.440
a lot of political stuff. So
that gets on your nerves too bad.

807
00:59:54.599 --> 01:00:00.239
So yeah, it's yeah, it's
like I said, it's important for you

808
01:00:00.280 --> 01:00:04.719
know, people to listen to people
that you know aren't like them. You

809
01:00:04.719 --> 01:00:07.519
know that that perspective is important,
and you know it's more than ever especially

810
01:00:07.559 --> 01:00:13.079
so uh yeah, yeah. We
also have like Michael said, we have

811
01:00:13.119 --> 01:00:16.480
Played for All happening with our charity
event. I've been helping to more schedule

812
01:00:16.599 --> 01:00:20.960
some stuff for that. We've got
some really cool stuff happening like the next

813
01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:23.480
few weeks, so I can tell
you it's it's going to be pretty dope.

814
01:00:24.039 --> 01:00:28.119
And yeah, I'm looking forward to
the finals whatever we're doing with Final

815
01:00:28.199 --> 01:00:34.800
Fantasy whatever in the coming weeks.
Yes, yeah, that's it. You

816
01:00:34.840 --> 01:00:38.199
can find me on Twitter. Two
more h currently working on Play for All,

817
01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:43.719
So please watch and support Black Lives
Matter, donate if you can,

818
01:00:43.920 --> 01:00:50.559
and we're also raising money for healthcare
workers in COVID relief and the links to

819
01:00:50.599 --> 01:00:54.320
support those are on our sites.
We will have regular charity streams every day

820
01:00:54.599 --> 01:00:59.679
unless there's a press conference that day, but usually between twelve and two pt.

821
01:01:00.280 --> 01:01:04.840
It's fun stuff, all going,
all the money going towards good causes,

822
01:01:04.880 --> 01:01:09.599
So please watch and we'll catch you
again next week. Goodbye, pe Hi