What Ease crack a lacing fellow thermu Pierre Effort, I am My Damn the
Valley coming at you with a brief solo introduction before we get to a conversation
that Grant and I had just had. He wanted to talk more about the
Joelle embiid stuff, so we got more into that and the sixty five game
minimum. He was on vacation when a lot of that went down, so
it was a good discussion. That'll be followed by some stat padding, but
we did record it however. Well, first let's get to the housekeeping notes
I have here, which is one. Come join us for our live post
trade deadline show this Thursday. It'll be about five pm Eastern time, two
pm Pacific that we go live. That's always really fun. I think last
year was the we didn't we do it live last year? I can't remember.
I know we did a br thing last year than we did our own.
We probably did a live so that'll be fun. It'll go up as
a regular podcast as always, but five pm Eastern time, two pm Pacific
to react to the trade deadline and also once around the All Star break,
Hardmer Knox will be taking some time off some well deserved time off. I
would say, however, we're not going to leave you high and drag.
Grant and I have done our positional rankings. The top ten players at each
position for US already ruined a little bit. We did record it before the
Joelle Embiid injury and the Zach Lavine injury, so we'll note that I'm not
sure how much the shooting guard rankings that those might have been changed quite not
quite a bit, but probably could have bumped him off. Embiid. I
don't know how much that would have changed that, which is also why I'm
recording this in the first place, because we have Joelle Embiid and Zach Lavine
updates. Woach tweeted on Tuesday morning that Embiid underwent a left meniscus procedure and
he'll be reevaluated in approximately four weeks. How Embiid's recovery goes over the next
few weeks will be paramount, But there continues to be belief that the door
isn't closed on the possibility of the raining v he's returned this season. It
The reporting on this is so weird, and I just feel a lot of
the same stuff is out there Jeff Stotts is going a good job covering it
on Twitter, and I think he was on Zach Loow's podcast about whether or
not he missed the season. It did seem like there was a hope that
once Embiid had this procedure, we would kind of understand a little bit more
how much time he was going to miss. But the fact that there's still
reevaluation. I'm sure we'll get further details as to exactly what procedure was done,
what was what actually happened to the meniscus, But I do find it
interesting that you know, not that they're leaving the door open for the season,
but just that we still don't have like kind of clarity on Okay,
well, how how likely is he to miss the season at this point where
it's like it's it's holding out hope, but to not know what exactly went
down, so there's all this speculation going around. It's a bummer either way.
He was on pace to be assuming he played in enough enough games another
issue. Altogether, he was on pace to be one of the foremost MVP
candidates. The Sixers were in a position to where it felt like, Okay,
had they made a move or two that they could have been really on
the level of a Boston, certainly on a Milwaukee or a Cleveland or in
New York. I will be interested to see how this impacts their approach to
the trade deadline or just even overall. Because we talked about this on this
podcast, We've talked about it in discord. Join our Discord. There's a
nice little plug for it if you haven't already. They have a cushion to
get into the playoffs. I mean, it looks a little bit. I
think when I had mentioned something initially they were six games or six losses in
front of Indiana, and that's now dropped to four. Dropping out of the
top sticks feels like it'll be a chore unless Orlando makes a move or Miami
really ticks up. It is possible, though, and so you wonder if
are they gonna go out there and try to even more not urgently, get
a difference maker this season to where you see them involved in the you know,
just like someone like a Keldon Johnson became available, or if they gave
up picks to get Alex Caruso. That doesn't seem like the type of move
they would still make. Even though those guys are under they would who knows,
but those guys are under contract. But one I do think they need
kind of another big in there. Some names that I talked about and I
did publish for anyone has not checked it out. My big board of trade
targets for every team over a Bleacher Report, like a Kelly Olynok they could
get if they want to give up seconds and they have expiring contracts. He
stretches the floor, can maybe play with Himbiid when he comes back, and
you're going to do a ton for your defense, So it still does leave
you somewhat relying on a Mobamba and Paul Reid. Andre Drummonds a name that's
been bandied about. Familiar face, big body can help you with the rebounding.
I don't know that he would be as good defensively as he's been in
Chicago, just because the Sixers don't have the same level of defensive talent in
front of him in most of their lineups, so that would be a question.
But to get his early bird rights and he's on such a cheap contract
as a backup, and he could, you know, start in a Bead's
absence and then when Ambide comes back, you're able to slash his minutes or
you have forty eight minutes of your or play right there. I like the
idea of Dario shariz reunion, not like kind of the traditional big but he's
kind of rap. By the way. With Kelly Olynock, I don't know
if people notice. I would be a little bit shocked that the Jazz got
a first round pick, assuming they're not taking that bad as salary. He's
really good this year as a playmaker, like a lot of live triple stuff
that I don't even at his peak, like his peak days in Boston,
Like that's not stuff he was necessarily doing. So that would be a that'd
be a good get for a lot of teams, to think the Clippers,
h if the you know, maybe if the Bucks figured out kind of how
to get him that they've been talking about Bobby Portis trades. I might like
Kelly Olinok better than Bobby Portis there, but he is someone that could help.
I mean, like Toronto could even use someone. Just a lot of
teams I think that that could use him. In Utah is one of them,
I suppose, But I'd like to see him clear some minutes to the
front court, just to skew the younger route with more Taylor Hendrix and and
Walker Kessler Mintz together, but Sharish he'd be a good fit, familiar face.
He's not really your traditional five, but he can play out of the
four or the five, and he's basically a backup big now. He gives
you some of the play making element, a little bit of stretch, good
decision maker. Not a ton of defensive value there he has. I think
because he started to play in a bigger player role, his reboundies got a
little bit better. I think you could also just still look the what we
want beyond ball decision maker route still just to help with Tyrese MAXI because as
good as Tyre's Maxie has been, look also complicated. I that the Sixers
are just banged up. All sorts of guys been missing time, including Tyres
Maxie, including Nicholas patom It doesn't even I don't even know if Robert Comedyton
is ever gonna play again, and so that needs to factor into this as
well, as we haven't really seen them at full strength. I guess without
Embiid necessarily in the minutes that Embiid is not playing, though the Sixers have
fair. Okay, I think their record overall I saw itsde it without him
is pretty bad, but there are plus one point five points per one hundred
posessions when he's off the floor. This year, their most successful lineup in
that situation is Maxi d Anthony Melton, Kelly Ubre Junior, Tobias Harrison,
Paul Reid, which is lighting the world on fire offensively and getting by on
defense. Defense is where they're gonna miss him everywhere the most. Defense is
where I would question, Okay, well what can this team do without Embiid?
And maybe that's where seeking out additional trade deadline help would come in.
It did always feel like they were gonna target dudes who could play that either
have expiring contracts or team options or non guarantees for next year so they could
float the cap space dream. I don't think Bruce Brown would be a good
get for them, doesn't replace Embiid, but just another guy who can make
decisions on the ball for you. Luke Canard would be similar. He gives
you some live dribble, just scoring aspect, I think more than people notice.
In addition to his motion shooting, he has knee issues. Though he's
already missed time this season, but when he's played, he has looked like
a firecracker of points. Alec Burks would definitely still be on the board.
Is sort of another really from scratch shot creator in a way that Brown or
Canard aren't either. I also contemplated, just because you have the expiring contracts.
I know, think he's dealing with an ankle injury now or elbow,
whatever it is. Gordon Hayward just he is expiring and he could still He's
not what he was like. He's just a lot slower, but there's still
some of that on ball shiftiness. Could you play him into bias together?
You know what? You just do it at this point because you're show so
shorthanded. I don't know. If and you didn't get his bird rights for
free agency, he could sign him to a smaller deal. Gary Harris is
still kind of up there, hasn't been shooting the three ball well this year,
but just as another plug and play wing. And then Jonathan Isaac I
kind of thought about as an encore fit for them, especially without EMBIID.
It's just how many minutes can you count? He's almost more interesting with EMBIID
because I don't love the floor spacing there element. Obviously all embiid helps with
that, but johnathy Isaac is still a defensive system unto himself for the fifteen
to twenty minutes a game that he can actually play that does still plug a
hole though, So I don't know what type of compensation Orlando would be looking.
He has a non guarantee salary for next year. And then also I
think de Jon deay Murray could still just be on the table where you don't
love the fit necessarily between him and Maxie and if you're throwing a beat in
there, but as far as helping you navigate the embiied absence, and could
you get him for a cost where it's I mean, it's costing you two
first round picks if you're Philly, just because you don't have any young player
equity that I think in Atlanta it'd be really hot for I don't think they're
lusting after a Jaden Springer or a Paul Reid, So if you're giving up
two first round picks, that's value you could probably get back in a later
move if things don't work out or if you're just looking to shake things up.
So I think the Sixers have a big enough cushion to stay in the
top six. They certainly have a big enough cushion to stay in the top
eight. Looking at Chicago and Atlanta, and we'll get to Chicago very quickly
in a minute. But they are nine games ahead of tenth, nine games
in the Lost Common ahead of the tenth place Hawks. I've been a little
bit friskier of late, by the way, and then eight games in front
of yeah, eight losses in front of the Chicago Bulls. So they're not
in danger falling out of the plan, which is why you're not going to
see if they're not going to lean in, were like maybe they could just
you know, lean into some sort of know that they're not gonna They're not
gonna do that. But I am interested how this impacts the trade line.
I hope and be plays again this season. Otherwise it is gonna create all
sorts of long term questions in Philly. And we get into a little bit
more of that with the Embiid and Tyres Alibert discussion. I thought it was
a you know, a good one with Grant and also I'd recommend I should
have done this more at the top. Two things that I two pods that
I recommended. So date, Duncan and John Hollinger have the Hollander and Duncan
podcast. I listened to that. They had a discussion about the sixty five
games minimum, the EMBID injury that I thought was really good. They also
talked about like maybe rule changes that could help by kind of recognizing that,
yeah, the rules it might be overblown at how much defense isn't being played
relative to the offensive skill, but maybe there are things that the league could
do to kind of even the playing field for them. And so I thought
that was a really good, level headed discussion, which is not one that
I had when I went on my little rant on my own a few days
ago. And then Zach Looe also did a pod, and the more I
think of it, I think I'd come around to his line of thought,
and I think Rubik Scal's line of thought, well, I don't know if
she was necessarily endorsing this so much as just relaying it. But where the
game's minimum, it's going to be in place for MVP, I suppose it's
one thing, but as I mentioned, I don't know if you need it
just because we've only seen the one player really in NBA history, Bill Walton
win the MVP while playing in equivalent a fewer than fifty five sixty five games
or let's say eighty percent of the season, however you want to frame it.
But when it comes to all NBA, and Ruby scald pointed this out
in our discord, it's not really happening. They're not really getting voted in
first team. It might be more of a second and third team issue.
And then Zach Lowe proposed, like have the game's minimum for All NBA first
or second team, and then have third team be the one where there's you
can sort of fudge it around and if Lebron plays in fifty eight games or
Joel and b plays in fifty one, they were able to shoehorn them in
there, and then people will still factor an availability anyway. But maybe that
gives you know, players more of an it's like less of an incentive to
try and play injured, or teams to do the same that might fudge with
contract incentives. Do you let it apply to third team All NBA at that
point, I don't know, I mean so, but I thought that was
that seems like increasingly the way to go, and I do tend to think
that this is eventually going to repealed, if not super softened, in the
not too distant future. And by that, I mean it would not surprise
me if if this is something that just gets walked back over the offseason,
like you know, TV deals signed, they just move on and they get
rid of the rule entirely. And then finally Zach Lavine is going undergoing season
ending foot surgery. I could not help but laugh when everything blacks in the
disc discord. I don't know, I laughed at the discord message that hard
and quite some times said oh he saw the rumors that he might get traded
to Detroit, and he was like, I'm out for the rest of the
season. So it was, you know, the report was that the Bulls
were basically saying Levine and Clutch Sports his agency, in consultation with the medical
staff of the team. This is per NBC Sports opted for surgery after seeking
additional medical opinions. And so I'm not I don't want to make lighters injury,
but I did find that to be really funny. So he's already missed
time while dealing with the ankle stuff, and so to have hundergo the surgery
as a bummer. He's not his best year. I still think he's a
very valuable player, as most people know what this probably takes Hi out of
the trade running, certainly for the Lakers. How are the Pistons though,
and I were still interested in him. I don't know if it takes me
out of the running, because I wasn't willing to give up much to begin
with to get him, just because they shouldn't be trading their own picks.
And now it's just what was he going to do for you this season?
Anyway? And Okay, he's he's undergone his season ending right foot surgery.
He's out for the rest of the year. You bring him back next year
and see how he fits into your program. I think he gets a little
bit I shouldn't say more appealing, but he's more perhaps attainable for them now,
because it would I would maybe it takes a little equity to get him
if Chicago's just like, well, if we do move into a position where
we're going to move to rows in career or so Jevon Carter at all,
we're more worried about long term cap relief than getting all this equity back.
At this point, I still think they still think Chicago's not gonna move anybody,
so that would mess up that plan. But you see them make a
Caruso trade, if you see them make a DeRozan trade, maybe it's the
op or two time for e Pistons to come in and maybe another team that's
just trying to have this asset player doesn't care about eating up the money to
then get Levine. But he's exposed to be out four to six months.
That's a bummer. We'll have to see what he looks like coming out of
coming into next season. Excuse me, where he is. He's still get
traded over the offseason when more teams just might be nibbling at that apple.
But this would certainly nuke his value, and he's a look at his peak,
he's still very useful offensive player. I think the pecking order in Chicago
and the make up for the roster maybe he's in conducive to him being his
best self. And he is certainly an issue on the defensive end, but
just as an off ball shooter and a cutter at times, and then even
as a as a creator, is just someone who can consistently, maybe not
so much this year, but hit off the bounce jumper that is a signature
skill. I hate team players like I've seen players get injured in general,
and this is completely anecdotal. There's no backup behind us. It does feel
like the past week and a half to two weeks that we've just been inundated
with all these injuries. And maybe it's because the embiid and Haliburton and even
Levine discussions have been at the forefront of my mind for so long that I
feel exhausted like that. But just there were so many games I was excited
to see last week specifically, and they were just the air of them were
dampanted by the absence of stars, even Lebron James missing some time. The
Knicks are so banged up, Like it's not just Julius Randall and Mitchell Robinson,
it's Quinton Grimes as Oji Nanobi. It just feels like it might be
that time of year. So anecdotally, it just feels like too much.
So yeah, I don't know what this. I don't know what the Lavine
injury changes for the Bulls this season. Immediately, I do think they're less
threatening overall, and but look their team playing at this point and so like
they it's still like Brooklyn is the team that's outskirt on the outskirts of the
plan right now that I suppose could sneak back in Chicago and Atlanta. Brooklyn
feels like, you know, one of those two teams I think will make
a trade deadline pivot. If they don't, oh, it'll be a hell
of a race to the ten seed in the Eastern Conference this season. Everybody
buckle up for that. So now let's get into discussion with Grant and I.
They'll also be stat padding again. Just as a note that we're gonna
do our trade deadline show live on Thursday at five pm Eastern time. It's
you could you put the notifications on YouTube already have it up so you could
tag it as waiting if you see it. Subscribe if you have not already.
Of course, I don't know if we'll have a pod besides that coming
up, but we do it all. We're gonna do our own All Star
Draft because the NBA got rid of the All Star Draft. But I you
know the NBA got rid of the All Star Draft. We did not because
you know what we care. We First of all, you shouldn't have captains
if there's not gonna be an All Star Draft at this point, so we
will be doing it All Star Draft at some point. We have a position
rankings coming out. That's gonna be something we'd like to open up to our
community at some point. Definitely joint discord to make that happen. The links
in the podcast and YouTube description. If you're worried about not getting a third
or fourth pod for me us this week, I apologize to granted and mean
to make this all about me. I did go on two shows and I'll
be going on another one. So I did the Timeline podcast. Anyone who
listens to this knows that I love those guys, Mike v Heel, Sam
Cooper. I went on to talk about they proposed some trades to me for
the Suns. So at the Timeline pod go follow them. Went on that
did about an hour with them. I also went on the OKC topic,
the topic Thunder podcast could plan on Words there by the way, where I
talked to Cone and Maddie. First time talking to those guys even though I've
been on the podcast before, so that was a lot of fun. We
did. We did over an hour, but there was a recording staff fu
on one of their ends, which happens I did about forty minutes on the
Thunder with them, So go you go check that out and I will be
going on to talk about the Knicks with Ryan Blackburn sometime after as I record
this on a Tuesday morning. He hosts The Alley Oop. You can go
check that out. Follow on Twitter at Ali Hoop Potter. You could spell
exactly as it sounds Ali oop MBA, go check that out. Where you
get your podcasts on YouTube. I'm gonna go on there to talk about the
Knicks. Maybe we'll have another episode up for you before the deadline. But
stuff just gets so dated at this point. I don't even want to tackle
I don't even want to tackle rumors. The fact we didn't have a transaction
on Monday was it's not weird, but you know, it kind of just
means, right, all this stuff might be happening and in an avalanche unto
itself. Thank you for the support for everyone. As always, you can
follow us on the socials and leads from the podcast and YouTube description. This
actually might only be an audio podcast, so little bonus. That's why you
subscribe to this podcast is so that you can go check out like the audio
only stuff that we post until next time. And as always I leave you
out with the shout out to one. Well, I'm not even gonna leave
you with the shot out, because Grant and I are going to talk right
now and then get into stat panning, and then we'll leave you with shouts.
What is a fellow Thermo Nuclear A efforts? I am Dana Valley coming
at you once again with my certified fantabulous Thermo Nuclear af co host mister Grant
Hughes. He was not around because he was sick as a dog for the
Joel and Bid discourse, so we figured we would have a larger discussion about
just the Joel embiid stuff, also about the league sixty five game minimum,
what it means, should there be any changes, will there be any changes?
Maybe we'll end up talking in circles and draw absolutely no conclusions because this
shit's tough to reconcile. But we're gonna get into it. Grant, however,
very quickly, how are you doing. I'm doing very well, Dan.
It's good to be back, good to be almost whole again. And
uh Brady talks, some talk, some hoops should be good. So I
just want to get your thoughts very quickly on the Joel Embiid stuff. Appreciate
it. I also have respect and want to know before we get into this,
what you thought about the Joel Embiid injury the discourse surrounding it. I
did already record a podcast where Nuggets fans were mad and like they like,
I just I don't. I still don't understand how they think that Embiad is
softer ducking them, and I understand. We had some lively discussions and discord.
I again reacted the Joell Eban news as sus as it happened. I
said some erroneous things about all NBA stuff. Ruby Scale pointed out in discord
we had someone else like was real syrup. I hope he didn't get that
wrong talking about the fan experience, which is of course the most important thing
of this. I'm just curious is to where you land to where I get
being disappointed. I'm just surprised, I guess at how much. And I'm
not saying he's blameless, but Joel Embiid is probably the like the person who
blamed the least out of all this when you look at the you know,
the league, the sixers, and then just like when you want to get
into the sixty five game minimum in general, the players Association gets looped into
it as well, So it feels like we're talking about like four different things.
So it's like the discourses is one starts starts with is MB ducking Jokic
sort of sort of thing, and then it like has a tentacle that touches
like sixers injury reporting, and then it also has to do with the sixty
five game limit or like which I guess like when you say the discourse,
is it just that we're talking about the EMBID topic in general, or like
what's That's what I was so confused about is it felt like this conversation went
in like ten different directions. I think my main point was I was using
basically because it was EMBIID. The MVP framing was the biggest thing for me.
But I was responding more so to There was a bunch of and they
were in our YouTube comments and some of them said they like me, but
now they're gonna unsubscribe because of what I said. And I guess I got
really impassionate about it because I tend to be pro player, but I want
to see players play. I just don't understand why people really think. While
there might be collaborative decisions, like, it's the organization, the team,
the training staff, the coaches that are ultimately deciding whether they play, how
much they play, it comes down to Nick Nurse playing them twenty nine minutes.
And what I don't understand is yes, would you like and me to
say I really can't go, or I'm going to ignore people calling me a
chicken shit and I'm not gonna play. Yes I would, but it's like
the whole entire point is for the organization, the coaches, the training staff
to override these players, to protect them against making or just to make the
best long term decisions. And again, I want to see stars play.
He hasn't played in Denver since the COVID stuff, but it's like he's out
played Yokic in certain regular season games and that's not I'm not maybe Nuggets fancser
for this as a shot at Yokic when I said it, I think that
Cole Yoak is the best player in the world, So like, I'm not
trying to take anything from Jokic. I just don't understand, especially if he
watched that Dubs game where everyone's like, well, was it It wasn't the
injury that he injured, And I was like, but he couldn't move,
like he shouldn't have been on the floor in the first place. And I'm
just I don't mean to sound like condescending when I was probably pretty angry.
But the thing that bothered me more is I expected it kind of from fans,
but like the number of media members that were just like, he's ducking
it. He's ducking Jokic, or he's faking the injury, or he's doing
all this on purpose, and yeah, Matt Moore's dive. Everyone said,
look at the data. I referenced the Matt Moore article from Action Network and
I love Matt Moore, and he walked back some the stuff he said.
But like I understand Embiid has. It looks like he is sitting against winning
opponents on the road. Do you think Embiid is looking at the Sixers schedule
and saying, well, yeah, I'll sit this one in, this one,
this one, or is this the Sixers deciding like, well, these
are the games that makes sense for Joelle and b d rest because we're trying
to maximize the number of wins during the regular season. Again, the fan
experience needs to drive this entire fucking thing. And I've been pretty open about
that a bunch of times. And there's so many parties to blame. And
the bigger thing is there's no solve here. I think it's I don't know
where you land on this now. I just feel like I'm reiterating myself.
The shield are an indictment on the length of the regular season more than anything,
because you can, you can, That's what the money's for this to
death, But like there are going to be nights like if he couldn't jump,
That's what Ramona Shelburne said before the Nuggets game, and then you watch
him against the Warriors and it's, oh no, this dude can't move right,
And so it's there just comes a point where is it too many games?
Is it? Or is it just the fact that it beads this physical
anomaly. I'm just am I lamenting the death of nuance? Like I know
that the comments and Twitter and you know, our discord is a place for
nuance, but like most of these mediums aren't a place for nuance. But
is context out the window here? Like can we not go by a case
by case basis or separate these issue and even I'm probably bad at it.
Like I said, I intertwined all NBA with MVP when I was making the
initial thing. So where are you just at on how the embid injury unfolded
in the response? Like it was too I think it would be twofold.
Where what did you make of just like the whole Embiid ducking the Nuggets type
thing, and then people the second part of this is just equating like injuries
with being soft and it's like, no, you could equate injuries with being
injury prone, but that doesn't mean that Joel Embiid's like a whimp type deal.
So I think the first thing that hopefully this will be helpful if like
it's sty'll still bothering you at all. But like this is a total illustration
of of like we've gotten total completely different levels of engagement with this topic because
somehow over this like news cycle, I just like haven't been like I was
sick and I wouldever, so I didn't really like come across a lot of
the I was aware there was some of it out there, but the the
various compete like backlash to the backlash to the backlash like back and forth opinions
that you're talking about. So it's like I wasn't exposed to that, so
I'm like less bothered by it. And I also don't feel like my take
on it has to respond to the he's ducking at crowd versus any of the
other nuanced side. So this is just like to say that I don't know,
I wasn't like this is interesting because this has clearly been a very big
part of your last forty eight hours or so, I'm like, not part
of mine at all. But the umbied thing is like, yeah, of
course there's a nuance to it, like one the sixty five game threshold is
just an interesting jumping off point now to talk about like any award obvious consequence,
Like there's a lot of bigger you know, so this is just you
know, there's a lot to say about that whole thing. I think you
may agree with this, as I think I've said it to you before.
If I don't think we need the sixty five game threshold, I think you
could just let voters decide. And if there's like you're measuring not exactly one
like against another, like you know, sixty five games at this level versus
fifty one at this level, like, let him figure that out. I'm
fine with that, okay, But as a pertains to embiid in the specific
circumstances, now, it's like, you know, I think it's if there
is a lot of if there is a strong contingent saying, you know,
oh, he keeps ducking all these big games against the Nuggets or whatever else,
and like this is this is soft and this is whatever, Like I
don't, I don't know. Maybe there is I haven't seen them, Matt
Moore thing, but I suspect, just anecdotally from what I can recall,
there are like a several games where you're like, oh, damn it,
he's not playing in this one. So like happens a fair amount. I
think to like call him out about it is kind of weak. And then
to the injury thing, like he was clearly hurt before the cominga falling on
his knee thing, and like so he should have sat out more probably than
he did. H and it's probably due to the team should probably be the
one saying you can't go. So I suspect he wants to go. I
don't think that that seems more likely to me than the ducking whoever it is
angle or wherever it is, if it's in Denver. I'm of the mine
that most basketball players want to play basketball if they can. That's like that's
a weird take by you, right, Like not everyone's Andrew Bindham type deal.
So you said most that you're not you're not paying too broad like you
know there are some that aren't into it, and like this would have been
say that players say that they say all the time, like some guys don't
love it, you know, like that, Well, Jason Tatum is like
shit on load management. I don't know if he and I guess he might
be calling out like the training staff rather than the like the actual players.
It's just that's the other thing that's been wonky is do you really think like
Kawhi was sitting here over all these years like yeah, I'll miss this gap
of time and this gap of time and he said that specifically it's like I
wanted to play Like this is just you know, yeah, I don't know
I would. Do you think the sixty five game limit is going to be
something we relitigate like as a league. As soon as the TV deal is
done, that thing is going away. And I think to the point that
Rubikscal made in the discord, where you look at the number of people who
generally don't the point she was making was that they generally don't make first team,
they're going to make second and third team. Like if you decide that
fifty six games of Lebron James is more valuable than like, it's a case
by case basis, and I think you made a good point. You need
to trust that the voters are going to make the right choice. And I
know that the media is imperfect. I know the fact that you have like
regional market people who follow one team and are tasked with voting for the entire
league. There's an issue there, But the media is still the best solution
this because the players do not take them as anyone who has seen the All
Star voting knows that the players do not take this seriously, and so like
that's the answer unless you want coaches. And even then you have agendas.
You have Rick Carlisle's voting for guys in the All Star Game that his teams
are trying to trade for, and so it's just like there's always going to
be these agendas there. There's no perfect solve it's just the NBA has left
a lot of it open for interpretation, and you would think, I guess
if anything, like they what they really did simplify was the job of the
voters who no longer have to look at what you're saying and decide, well,
is prefty nine games of Jowelle and be more valuable than seventy games of
Demontes bonus or something. Yeah, that's what it comes down. I think
the decision was was a TV money thing and just more than anything. And
it wasn't in the intention to be like let's make it easier for these dummies,
like you know, that wasn't the goal of it, but that is
the eff like that has been an effect of it, and I don't feel
like that's a good thing, like let's make it. It shouldn't be that
it should you know, it should be hard sometimes to decide. You should
have to like really think about it. And also it's like some of it
naturally does get weeded out to where yes, we've seen players playing chier than
sixty five games and they've made all NBA teams, But like if you end
up missing extensive time because everyone's like stop framing it is missing seventeen games,
it's playing in eighty percent of the season, and it's like, okay,
fine, if you play an eighty percent of the season in general, you're
going to give yourself a betefit of making these awards anyway, and MVP specifically,
I know DPO wise Rubuskau pointed out, like we've seen Jared Jackson junior
last year missed that off, So I don't we did. I talked about
this with Keith when the new CBA was ratified, and we discussed some of
these as unintended consequences, But I was not as against the sixty five game
minimum, and I'm not even sure if that's what was driving what went on
with EMBI here. I do think though, if you're you're gonna have this
minimum, like the players Union and the league needs to make sure that teams
are not making decisions for the wrong reasons or allowing players to override this because
they want to make the award get that extra money. And like, it's
probably a bigger issue for someone like Tyre's Haliburton, who has the contract incentive
tied to it by making all NBA do we need to get rid of that?
Is that just part of it, like the tying tying your max level
eligibility to you know, static, to the All NBA, to All Stars
or whatever, Like I guess the All Star for sure, because if you're
gonna allow fans and players to have not All Star but whatever, it is
an All NBA MVP Defensive Player of the Year. But what is the alternative
at that? Like to do you not want to see those first players be
eligible to like get a thirty percent match? Right? Who the team?
If you leave it to the team's discretion, parrely, they're gonna make some
fucking stupid decisions, Like that's just gonna be No, I would go the
other way. Maybe, well, I don't know, you just set the
number like the you know, this is a complaint people make all the time.
It's like talk about this guy's a MAX guy. Like there's like seventeen
different ways to be a MAX guy, just spending on years of service and
you know that kind of thing, like how you know whether you signed for
five or four or you super mac? Do you have a play? So
like we could just simplify it and be like here are the numbers you can
get as a MAX player. You'd have to figure out maybe you just tie
it to years of service instead, so like, you know, a guy
coming off as rookie scale deal can't get you know, Damian Lillard's last contract
level of money or something. But we don't need to tie it to all
NBA or anything else. And then maybe the guy if you're not going to
get rid of the game's threshold, because one or the other would would work.
But if you've got to play sixty five games and to make all NBA
to get your thirty year supermax, like, let's just kick one of those
variables out. Either you know you can make all NBA without playing sixty five
games, or you or I don't know, it's not tie. Your contract's
not tied to that honor. I think the rule needs to be repealed ultimately,
just for the safety and integrity of these games where it's like Embiid versus
the Warriors, Like the Sixers look better without him beat on the court.
I don't want to see that it was like a different guy. It happened
a bunch of times this week where there were games that I was going to
tune into and I was like, well, so and so is not playing,
like this sucks, but so I can only imagine, for I'm not
going to spend money on a ticket because I'd rather like if I get credentialed,
which I if we ever fought for it anymore. But I have no
desire to be covering stuff on site at the moment. Like, so I
get the frustration, the like what is the like at the end to kind
of wrap up the entire discussion? What is the solve then to forget about
awards? But it's well, you want the best players on the court as
much as possible to really just come down to then you need to be willing
to because there's something is not the math isn't mathing here, and I don't
think it's fair to boil most of this. There's a lot of instances where
teams might abuse the whole just resting thing. But I say, we want
Embiid to stop performing poorly in the playoffs or not be as banged up in
the playoffs, and then say, but he's got to play in eighty games
or something, knowing his injury, his street and does it all just come
back to well, then the season needs to be shorter because this isn't Again,
it's not as simple as the players they should have to do their jobs.
That's what the money is for. Yeah, there's an element of it.
If that's why teams are just resting them on the second night of back
to back without any health issues, and then that's a bummer for the fans
for sure, especially when they're on the road. I just don't have a
solve aside from well, then you need to shorten the season, which at
this point has become very clear the NBA is never going to do it.
And then so do you just trust teams that they're going to be smarter,
But because there's always gonna be if you get rid of the sixty five game
minimum or if you even if you make these penalties we've seen the penalties with
the injury reporting, teams are just gonna fuck with it anyway. But Google,
I think like, I don't I don't know, I don't know what
the solve is, Like, you're never going to shorten the season. And
then with what we've recently, what the NBA has put out there about the
load management stuff is like, there's it's not conclusive that being tired makes you
the season. It doesn't matter. I know you're not on Twitter. Did
you happen to see what I said when that report came out. No,
I quoted it and said, breaking science alignes with the NBA's business interest,
right, It's like I have to take that with a grain of salt to
where like, yeah, maybe it's correct, And again I'm not. I
think there's a lot of people that skew past empathy towards like let the players
do whatever they want because I'm pro labor, and it's just different when it's
millionaires versus billionaires rather than the common person versus these corporations. But I'm also
just like, yeah, I want to see them play, but I also
want to see them as healthy and talented and like at a high levels possible
in the playoffs when it matters most. That doesn't mean I want the regular
season to mean less. I just think that the regular season is always going
to mean less because there's eighty two games, right, and you're never gonna
have this. This is why I feel like it's unfair to compare the NBA
to the NFL, because it's seventeen games versus eighty two, and so it's
just like, yes, of course there's a scarcity of product that's just not
going and they've also the NFL doesn't sell their players as much because one,
there's many of them, and so teams are still, as Carter Rodriguez in
the Chase Down put it, the fans are generally still rooting for laundry.
They're not rooting for players. And the NBA has been this player driven league.
And the other thing is is that if you want it, let's let's
throw this in the direction of Okay, we see these games where let's use
the Jokic versus in Big Game in Philadelphia, then they play together. But
you get these takes that are clearly forced or just over the top from either
media members or fans, where it's you can't really draw these profound conclusions from
one matchup in eighty two about Embid and Jokic, like per year, or
even two matchups out of your eighty two games, and so it's there's always
going to be the level of nuance in context that is just lost because that's
not good for engagement. I just don't know how to separate that from Okay,
well, like, how do we actually maximize this product, make it
mean something adequately catered to the fan experience in the middle of the dog days
of the season, which are January and February right now. And so it's
just I think this is why the transactional window plays so well, and the
draft plays, and for agency plays and trades play because they are these singular
events that have this massive impact on what could happen on the court or a
team's future, and these singular games during the regular season, they generally don't.
It's when you get to the playoffs. It's when the records are kind
of unfolding and you're battling for seating. I don't have an answer, so
this is all hypocritical. I can get mad about the discourse round EMBIID,
but I don't necessarily have a perfect solve for this. I think the biggest
issue, and I don't know how you overcome it without dwindling down games is
you have in I don't want to call it an oversaturation because the season is
the season. I'm not saying players need to play less and make this like,
I just don't. I don't know how to reconcile any of this.
Can we also just say that maybe, since this is the first year of
this rule, we don't know enough yet about if it's a good idea or
not. I mean, I know I started this discussion with like, is
this a good idea or we could get rid of it? But like what
if in the in the aftermath of like three years of this, it does
turn out that like some of the best players did in fact play more because
of this rule, and we got more good, meaningful, like fully talent
stocked games, and we otherwise would have been like, yeah, there was
an embiid here or there, or you know, maybe Haliburton came back a
little or there's a few of those. But like, I don't know,
it might net out to be a positive. We don't. We don't know
yet for sure. It's it's problematic. I do think like even if it's
a bad idea ultimately, which maybe it is, I think it's a credit
to the league that it's like we're trying to solve this. We like,
we hear you, and it's just it's a complicated problem and it might not
have a it will not have a perfect solution, and it does not.
So we'll like to walk that back if they repeal it as soon as the
TV dealer assigned, that's like you weren't trying to fix shit. Yeah,
well yeah, ultimately it's a business, then priority one is let's make as
much money as we can. So would this make any sense? And I
guess it would cost a lot of resources, But like, did we just
need like thirty independent and like maybe they're rotating where it's like these independent people
who evaluate the players and like their medicals and decide what, Like is that
the way to go if you're going to keep the sixty five game minimum?
I like, I don't know. I have no idea. I think I
think I know. I asked you, is it gonna be repealed? Yeah,
he's gonna be something's gonna change. I'm maybe saying it'll be repealed as
such a strung Like again, I don't even know how much of that drove
what was going on with Embiid right with you? Yeah? Maybe none,
maybe they Maybe it may be technical technically unrelated in this case, although it
is tied. You know, that's two related issues for this mini podcast.
We of course had to do the stat padding after some Joel Embiid takes grant
you stat padding for me, Yes, I do. Dan. We're gonna
talk about free throws first, Uh, just start with the hot topics,
you know, we really want to get into the most exciting aspects of the
game. I just want you to tell me Dan who made more free throws
in his career Shaquille O'Neil or Mark Price Shaquille O'Neil. That's correct, and
it's not close, but at fifty two point seven percent versus Mark the four
percent, just I would say he was just there or so often. Yeah,
just trying to try to see Shack made fifty nine hundred fifty nine thirty
five. Price was only twenty one thirty five. Dan who made more free
throws in his career? DeAndre Jordan or Jose Calderon DeAndre Jordan. That's correct,
that's he almost doubled them up. But Calderon eighty seven percent, DJ
forty seven thought it might God was under ninety percent. Wow, I know
I was surprised by that too, because he had that streak right where he
made like, yeah, all right, Dan who made more free throws in
his career? Dwight Howard or Reggie Miller. Reggie Miller. That is correct.
It is a little closer, sixty two to thirty seven versus fifty three
sixty one, so within a thousand there, But Miller eighty eight percent almost
eighty nine, Dwight fifty seven. Dan. Who made more free throws in
his career? Giannis Attatakumbo or Jimmy Butler. Jimmy Butler, that's correct.
You said that very confidently. It is less than one hundred that they're apart
music the line so often. I guess that's like kind of a not a
new feature for him. But yeah, it's the difference between eighty four percent
for Butler and seventy percent for you. Honest which Donna sit? Seventy percent?
Isn't that surprising? Wow? Amazing? Uh, seventy point four and
and and falling, but you know you may not be there for long.
That's the only one that might age out. Johannis will definitely finish with more
career made free throws than Jimmy Butler. Got another one for you, ready?
Or you want to give me one? No, get hit me with
one, all right? We're talking playoff wins, very different from free throws
here, Dan, tell me who has more career playoff victories? Michael Jordan
or Tony Parker. Tony Parker correct one thirty seven to one nineteen. Who
has more playoff victories? Magic Johnson or Shaquille O'Neal. Shack's career was longer
Magic. I'm gonna say Magic Johnson. It is Shack if it makes you
feel any better. Shack has one twenty nine. Magic has won twenty eight.
So you know, uh, Dan, who has more playoff victories?
Andrea Goudala or Dwayne Wade Andre Goadala. In fact, it is Andrea Goudala
one o seven to one oh five Dan. Lastly, who has more playoff
victories? Bill Russell or Horace Grant? I'm just gonna say Horace Grant because
why else would he be on there? As well? That's one way to
get there. It is Horace Grant. I thought maybe the fact that Bill
Russell just won titles every year might sway a lot shorter. There was like
four teams in the league, so yeah, playoffs it didn't last that long,
all right? One last one here or one last category, same idea.
Who has the higher career playoff scoring average? Kobe Bryant or Shaquille O'Neil.
Shaquille O'Neil, it is Kobe twenty five point six to twenty four point
three for Shaq, Kareem abdul Jabbar or Lebron James Lebron. It is Lebron,
You're correct. Twenty eight point five to twenty four point three. Kind
of surprisingly low for Korean, but I bet he had some like tail end
years that and also just a three ball Yeah yeah. Klay Thompson or Tim
Duncan. Oh my god, I'm gonna say just because at the tail end
of the Duncan years, I'm gonna say Klay Thompson incorrect, It is still
Tim Duncan six to nineteen point two. Good one, all right? More,
Who has the higher career playoff scoring average? Alan Iverson or Luka Doncic,
Luka Doncic thirty two point five to twenty nine point seven, that's right,
higher career playoff scoring average Dan Anthony Edwards or Steph Curry. I'm just
gonna say An he's played in such a few games twenty eight point one to
twenty seven Curry, surprisingly because you look at playoff career stats and Clay and
Draymond are always an Iguodala are often ahead of him, and a lot of
things just because you forget that he missed like big chunks of some their playoff
runs. Uh. Last one here, higher career playoff scoring average Yannis or
Donovan Mitchell. Ooh, I'm going to say Yannis, it is Donovan Mitchell.
Twenty seven point eight to twenty six point six. Wow, that's not
even Oh wait, twenty six point eight to twenty This is like Mitchell's like
a point one point two points clear of Yeah, that's not even that close
relative to points. I'm surprised Yiannis is that low. Twenty six point six.
It feels like nothing. Hey, he's shooting seventy percent for the pal
of his career, so you could do whatever he wants. That's true.
Okay, I got two categories for you, but they're on the longer end.
Okay. Grant which NBA player has the highest winning percentage during games in
which they scored at least fifty points. Kareem abdul Jabbar or Elgin Baylor.
Hmm, I'm gonna say Kareem, I don't have a reason in correct.
He is eight and two, so eighty percent when he scores fifty points.
Algim Baylor eighty eight point eight percent, sixteen and two who he scores fifty
points? Pretty good by both? Pretty good job Kobe Bryant or James Harden.
I'm gonna say James Harden, because I feel like some of do you
want to tell me if I'm wrong before I give my explanation. You are
correct James Harden's seventy three point nine percent seventeen to six, and then Kobe
Bryant sixty nine point three percent winning percentage eighteen to eight. Kobe had some
ugly ones during those down years, and then at the end, I think
some some some rough fifty Burgers Lebron James or Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan,
that is incorrect. Michael Lebron James eighty percent winning percentage twelve and three when
he scores fifty. Michael Jordan's seventy four point four percent winning percentage twenty nine
and ten. That's tough. The volume there hurt The volume there hurts him.
Thirty nine fifty point games to fifteen. Alan Iverson or Damian Lillard.
Hmmm, I'm gonna say Iverson incorrect. Damianellard seventy point six percent, Allen
Iverson sixty four point three percent. Dame is twelve and five. Iverson is
nine and five. That's not very good. I'm getting fifty, okay.
Kevin Durant or Steph Curry Steph incorrect. Oh, Kevin Durant seventy percent winning
percentage nine and three. Steph Curry sixty nine point two winning percentage nine and
four. Joelle Embiid or Giannis attentacunpo m. I'll say em Beid that is
correct, one hundred percent eight and oh he's undefeated. Giannis is seven and
two, so seventy seven point eight percent. Wow, he didn't know.
That's oppressive. Devin Booker or Jason Tatum Ooh, I think I feel like
I know Booker's loss. We talked about plus minus in big scoring games before
Tatum. That is correct. He's undefeated at seven and oh, Devin Booker
is forty two point nine percent three and four. That's that's amazing. Luka
Dancic or Kyrie Irving Luca. That is correct. He's undefeated seven and oh,
Kyrie is eighty three point three percent five in one. Anthony Davis or
Russell Westbrook Davis that is correct eighty percent winning percentage four and one. Russell
Westbrook fifty percent at three and three. Russe has only had six fifty point
games. Why autin regular season? Yeah? Wow? Carmelo Anthony or Bradley
Beal I'll go against the you shouldn't pick the volume guy, but I'll say
Mellow that is correct seventy five percent three and one. Bradley Beal forty percent
two and three. Derk Novitzky or Shaquille O'Neal Dirk that is incorrect. Dirk
sixty six point seven percent two and one. Shaq was undefeated at three to
zero. Okay, another one. Shack had three fifty point games in his
career, and that's it. This is the best proof that scoring has exploded
is because that feels impossible that he didn't have like fifteen or twenty Okay,
sorry. Final one, Donovan Mitchell or Klay Thompson. Pretty I wish I
could remember if Mitchell won or lost that game where he and Murray both had
I think fifty. I'll say Clay that is correct, one hundred percent for
Clay undefeated at four and oh. Mitchell sixty six point seven percent two and
one. All right, nice job. I had a rough patch in the
middle of there, but I think I think overall it was close to breaking
even. Okay, final category. We are going to talk All Star selections.
Grant which NBA player has more All Star selections Kareem Abdul Jabbar or Lebron
James Lebron James. Twenty to nineteen that is correct. Kobe Bryant or Tim
Duncan oh Man Uh Kobe correct. Eighteen to fifteen. Shaquille O'Neal or Michael
Jordan Jack That is correct. Fifteen to fourteen. Kevin Garnett or Karl Malone
Malone that is incorrect fifteen to fourteen in favor of Garnett. Kevin Durant or
Dwayne Wade. Oh Durance missed a few because well, I guess you still
got names to it. I'm gonna say I'm gonna say Wade incorrect. Kevin
Durant fourteen to thirteen. Chris Paul or Allen Iverson oh Man Chris Paul correct.
Twelve to eleven. It was close. Larry Birder, Magic Johnson,
and I will point out they both played thirteen seeds in the NBA. Yeah,
but Magic had that one at the end that well, I think he
did play in the All Star Game that last in the comeback Yere, I'll
say, I'm gonna say Larry Bird. I don't know why that is correct.
Twelve to eleven close. Anthony Davis or Kyrie Irving. Oh wow,
that feels like it should definitely be Davis. It is nine to eight though
extremely close. Ah, these are so close. Chris Bosh or James Harden.
Hmmm, well Harden's what? Oh for two of these last two?
I feel like I I'm gonna still say Harden that is incorrect. Chris Boss
eleven to ten Chris eleven, All Star Games. Wow. Jimmy Butler or
Joel Embiid Butler Joel Embiid seven to six. Seven times we're getting old Giannis
attent to Koombo or Paul George. Paul George correct nine times to Giannie's eight.
Steve Nash or Scottie Pippen Nash that is correct eight to seven. Nice
job, Damian Lillard or Kawhi Leonard Damn That is correct eight to seven.
Ye, injury has killed Kawhi there, He's missed so many for that.
Bradley Beale or Karl Anthony Towns, Oh Man, I'll say Beale that is
incorrect. Towns is now at four to Beal's three. Wow, I was
gonna guess like six to five. Finally, Devin Booker or Derrick Rose Booker
correct four to three. They were just tied until Booker made his fourth one
oh wow, three All Star games for Derrick Rose. That's tough, Grant.
Do you want to take us out of here? Yeah? That was
fun. I like those. Thanks everybody for checking out on this one.
As as we always do, we encourage you please to you know, be
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just be part of the part of the gang. I guess what I'd
say. Join the discord, get in there, submit your guest players and
stat patting stuff. We always appreciate that. I think that's it. As
always, we close with the shout out to be one only Frank Malatina and
an apology to Cherit