What is krack alac in tellow thermonuclear A efforts. I am Dana Valley coming
at you with my certified fantabulous co host, mister Grant Hughes. We are
on to the second part of our Eastern Conference exercise of going through one objective
or goal or thing we're watching for every NBA team in the East as we
go through the stretch run of the twenty three to twenty four NBA regular season.
If you've not checked out the first part, we did the Atlanta Hawks
through the Indiana Pacers. We are now going to do the Miami Heat through
everyone's favorite team, the Washington Wizards. But first and foremost, Grant,
how the heck are you? I'm doing really well. I am now hyper
conscious of mouth because as we were discussing at the end of the last episode,
I don't know, does anybody care about this? Verbal tics and weird
things you do when talking really get highlighted if you podcast a lot. And
so now I'm hyper conscious of the I'm not gonna make this sound, but
you know the sound you make like after you've thought for a second when someone's
asked you a question, and then it's like you purse your lips and then
there's like a little pop sound before you talk. I have no idea what
you're talking about. I can't do it on commands. I can't do it
on laughing anyway. That's what I've been thinking about since you. Aren't you
happy that I edited short? So that I can comment on all of our
And to be fair, I don't call out just you, but I can
comment on all of ours, just like weird little quirts. I just did
it. I did it again. It's such a subconscious thing. I don't
know how you start talking from not talking without making that noise. I'm gonna
have to change my whole life around. We need a producer. If anyone
wants to just come produce this show just and edit all our stuff for us.
Yeah, make our lives way easier. That'd be great. And if
you want to put it really impressively on your resume, you can say mouth
sounds eliminator. It doesn't need to be it's a very specific job title.
Mouth sounds eliminator sounds like you're a professional gagger or something like kidnappers or something.
Reword that like some doing victims. That's that'll be your job. What
are we talking about today, Dan? The n B A Oh, I'm
ill prepared for that. Uh, we're gonna So we're onto the Miami Heat.
This is the second half of our Eastern Conference. Uh. What should
this loosely titled? What should each team's goal be down the stretch of the
season? What should it try to accomplish? What question does it need to
answer? If you want to frame it that way. We've gone alphabetically and
I've made the mouth sound again. You've you have unlocked a terrible Pandora's box
of self consciousness. We're at the Miami Heat though, So, Uh,
Dan, what is your issue for them or something they need to get figured
out? Or what will you be focusing on for the Miami Heat. It's
twofold for me, and I only made a two fold because I don't want
to oversimplify the first one. But could they beat a good fucking team?
They they've like, yes, there was that volcanic eruption post trade deadline,
and then there was kind of that snake bit and free fall. I know
they're dealing and have dealt with a ton of injuries, but so have most
teams at this point. As we record this, Grant they have a three
and eighteen record against teams with a top ten net rating. That's the sixth
worst record against top ten net rating teams. The only teams with the worst
record all suck. It's Charlotte, Detroit, Portland, San Antonio, and
Washington. That is terrible company to keep. And so I understand, you
know, Jimmy Butler is dealing with the right foot stuff, Kevin Love the
right heel issue, Tyler Hero. It feels like when is he gonna come
back? He just got that PRP injection and is in his right foot,
doesn't have a timeline for return. But like, this team needs some trademark
victories if they want to recapture the magic we're all waiting for of them.
Oh, it doesn't matter if they go through the play or is the sixth
seed, they'll make the finals anyway. The thing I am sort of wondering
though, too, is do they need to kind of start thinking about fiddling
with the starting lineup that they've already had to fiddle with again as we're recording
this, like the go to lineup if they're healthy ish, because I know
Butler's dealing with the right foot stuff. You have Butler Bam Nikol Yovich,
Duncan Robinson, and Terry Rozier. I get the theory of having most of
that those players, especially without Kevin Love available in that lineup, that group
still isn't taking nearly enough threes. It doesn't generate any rim pressure. I'm
wondering if they kind of just need to lean into you know, like,
can we one just put our five best players on the court who are actually
healthy and so if that's not Hero, it's probably Caleb Martin. I'd rather
have it there than himehawkis, or it's you know, if we don't trust
either one of them, you know, cayleb as a playmaker, even Hawkins
as a playmaker. But those two guys are gonna come in and they'll do
more for you on the offensive glass. At least it's not something the Heat
focus on. But maybe they could generate some second chance opportunities for you in
ways that Nikola Yovich or Duncan Robinson really isn't. Right now, I will
always defer to head coach Eric Bolstra on just everything, but when you're the
Heat, and I know it's not who starts, it's who closes. But
there are three teams who have seen more games enter clutch time, like heat
just need to get off to good starts as early as possible and go from
there. Those are it's just the body count is dwindling, and so I
understand that there, but like, those are kind of the things I'm watching
because look, three to May team we get three and eighteen against teams with
top ten net ratings is pretty pretty bad. Yeah. The personnel issue,
both brought on by injury and just the players that they choose to put on
the floor, ties into what I'm focused on, which is the heat.
Just like maybe maybe it'd be easier to beat some of these good teams if
you could generate more clean, easy looks and the heat. Just do not
specialize in that they're twenty fourth in rim accuracy, and when I looked this
up earlier, they were thirtieth. They've skyrocketed up to twenty ninth in rim
attempt frequency, which to me is kind of the more important number. How
often are you're getting to the rim and getting shots off now, Like,
because it's the heat, of course, this doesn't matter the same way it
matters to other teams. Because they were nineteenth and twenty eighth, respectively,
last year and they made the finals. So like, like, you know,
I don't know what we do with that, but I think it's fair
to say that like, at least if the margins are thin, and if
and if you're hard up for scoring in general, which sometimes they are,
get into the basket is a good way to generate free throws at least and
find you know, if if you can't do anything else, gets the hole
and maybe you get some easy buckets. Maybe that flips a couple of those
close games. Maybe that gets you a win or two against good teams.
It's just wild to me that like that's a glaring issue that I think would
be setting off like alarm bells for tons of teams. I don't think that
heat care at all because they're just like, we'll figure it out. Well,
we'll make mid rangers in the playoffs, if that's what you know is
called for. I will say it just feels different than even last year.
And I don't know if that's just the injuries starting to mount, but I'm
like, I'm not nearly as confident. And also just like there have just
been I don't Jimmy Butler can flip that switch, but there have just been
nights where he's not gonna be It doesn't seem like he's able to get to
the basket at will likes. And I don't know what the answer necessarily is
for this roster as currently constructed. And it's just sort of like I think
Tyler heroes not weirdly important, maybe uniquely important to them because you need his
tough shot making. And like they've almost tried to like bridge some of the
gap by using Terror's ear as kind of more of a driver or is he
gonna be someoneho's gonna set screens for you where it's like he's maybe a little
bit more of the Tyler hero esque player as well, where he can specialize
in hitting threes off the catcher. He's gonna hit some tough shots for you.
I just don't know the offense is. I don't want to say it's
broken, but like the offense is just such a slog for them. Yeah,
and well that's it's interesting. I we don't want to spend too long
on each team here. We're trying to kind of breeze through. But like
you said, you don't you don't you know wishful thinking. You said,
you don't feel as confident in the Heat this year as last year, Like
I don't. I'm asking because I don't remember, Like I don't remember going
into the playoffs when they were a playing team. If I felt like,
oh, look out, like this Heat team, they're gonna make a run.
I want to think I lose every single series they were in all four.
Yeah, yeah, I just here we go. I don't know they
have the benefit of doubt now though, But but like, make some layups
or get some layups, all right? That takes us to the Milwaukee Bucks.
I'm curious what you have because it feels like there's a big issue but
that I'm gonna hit. But I what what? What is? What should
the Bucks goal, in your opinion be going on? I think they need
to do a better job of optimizing Damian Lillard inside the art that needs to
be Look, everyone wants to focus on the defense. It's been a little
bit better at least passable during the Doc Rivers era. And I think when
you look at Dame, his season's been uneven and like the driving is there.
He's at thirteen drives per thirty six minutes. That's lower from last season
sixteen. But he's playing with another Superstar. Generally, it's a new team,
it's within the same galaxy. It's not miles beneath the surface up and
they're just like functional blips like that happen. However, we have his three
point shot has not been falling at the same clip. It's perked up a
little bit as of late, but he's he's at under fifty percent from two
and while that's in line with what he's done for his career, it's nowhere
near the fifty seven point four percent of what he did last year, which
we recognize is probably the best season of his career. But like you want
this when you're looking at the Bucks roster, I think they have the ability
to open up the in between and just getting to the basket more for him,
because again he is driving. It's just the pathways aren't as clear.
And like they've done, if it's three point shot is perking up, I
think they've done a better job of integrating him alongside and Janniss at the Koupo.
So I started diving into what I think personally is wrong, and it's
most of his minutes come beside two of Giannis Brook Lopez and Bobby Portis.
That's unavoidable. It's meant to be a feature, not necessarily a bug.
But when you're playing Lillard without Yiannis, the vast majority of those minutes have
come with both Bobby Portis and Brook Lopez, and I think we need to
get to a point where it's okay. Those lineups have fared well by and
large, I think mostly on the back of the defense. Yes, they
can still space the floor, but it's different when you're spacing the floor with
two bigs versus oh, we're playing with four maybe it's one big three shooters
and then there's Damian Lillard, and I would like to see them change up
that look is it. Can we get to more Dame and just Bobby Portis
combos or can you get Lopez to pop off more screens for Damian Lowe is
part of just Lopez, no Portis, no Yannis lineups? Can we even
get to and look, we haven't seen a ton of this. I think
we've seen like one hundred and twenty five or one hundred and ten possessions of
Damian Lillard, Jannis and no Biggs. I just think that you need to
get to a point, especially when you're looking at the playoffs that you want
to optimize Damian Lillard from every level, and when his three point shooting has
been a little touch and go, I don't think the Bucks have done enough
of that. And that's just something I'm watching for, and I guess the
inspiration subconsciously I thought about it as of writing it was they beat the what
was it, they beat the Clippers when they didn't have Giannis, right,
and like, that's what we like. The pathways were so open for Damian
Lollard in that game and he had a great night or was that a matinee.
I don't even really remember, but I remember watching it and thinking,
Wow, I'm not saying Yanni should come off the bench or something, but
that's just something I kind of have brewing in the back of my mind.
Yeah, mine, Mine's. I don't have a ton to add because I
just was gonna focus on the pick and roll chemist very specifically. It doesn't
have to be pick and roll. It can be the two man game.
It can be like some some handoff stuff or whatever it is between Dame and
Yiannis. Like that just needs to be. Like Doc Rivers said, it,
so there the game that everybody keeps pointing to because is this like,
when are they gonna run high volume pick and roll? Like, is it
ever gonna happen? Everybody points to this game against the Lakers on March eights,
where where there were twenty three instances where Yannis set on ball screens for
Dame. They lost that game, so like they you know, and there's
there's a bunch, you know, I've I think I've probably cited some of
these other numbers where you know, as a as a as a role guy,
uh Yiannis is like not as good as you'd think he'd be, you
know. And and for the Bucks in general, don't do a lot of
pick and roll anyway. On the year, they're like ten percentile in terms
of scoring efficiency when the role guy's finishing. We talked about this last time
a little bit, I think, but yeah, like that that chemistry and
Doc Rivers I think is the right guy to to be, you know,
to be faced with this particular issue because Doc Rivers is a pick and roll
spammer, like he will figure it out. And his quote after that loss
was, I think this is really telling. This is from ESPN's Jamal Collier.
Doc said, listen, you want to win all these games? But
that's the stuff that we're going to keep doing more and more until it becomes
us Like he's very much committed to the idea of if we're going anywhere,
our offensive identity is Damon Giannis interacting at the top of the arc with the
ball, Like that's just what the Bucks are going to have to be and
we haven't seen it be consistently successful yet, and we are what what percentage
of what are there like fourteen games left for a lot of teams fifteen some
somewhere in that neighborhood. So yeah, you pointed to the overall offensive and
defensive numbers under Doc, Like it's just that this has to be a thing
for the Bucks or there if he defense it's been better under Doc, but
like you know, it's not going to hold up. So I think that's
I think we're kind of got our eyes trained on the same thing. There
anything to add or shall we move on to your New York Knicks. Let's
move on to your New York Knicks. I think they need to And this
is kind of a duh thing when you're looking at the injuries they're dealing with
Ojan Andobi's elbow stuff cropping back up and then Julius Randall. We don't know
what's going on with his own show or when he's slated to return from the
shoulder injury, but you need to figure out a way to make Alec Burks
and or boy On Bydanovic matter, And I think that it's more likely to
do that with boying On Bydonovitch, just because Alec Burks I is a rougher
watch for me, even when he's even when boying On Bydanovich is playing poorly.
And also Duce McBride has been playing well enough that you might just decide
that you don't need Alec Burks and yeah, your golden say Warriors got absolutely
fried. But really familiar with the work of Duce McBride, whatever the hell
that was, that's not his normal work. It is funny though, when
it's like I'm not this is not meant to compliment us, But when I
was listening to a Warriors podcast afterwards and they were talking about like, oh,
we had a scrub, like Duce McBride burn us, Like McBride is
like playing some real NBA minutes at this poin is good. He was really
good against the war but like no time it wasn't like this guy's never gonna
have another game like this. It was like, oh shit, Duce mcride
is having a good Duce McBride game like that. That's really it was definitely
the extreme, but it was just funny to hear talk about that way.
So I look at Boan Bardanovich and we've seen his minutes tick up a little
bit more and he has not looked great and he doesn't give you rebounding,
he doesn't give you defense, but like you need to continue spacing the floor
around Jalen Brunson, who is just like has to work so fucking hard to
get his baskets still, like even his easy ones just aren't freaking easy and
it and you have maybe you don't have the personnel to make it as easy
all the time, Like Dante DiVincenzo bombing away from three has helped a ton.
I think the switch Toiah Hartenstein has made well not to switch, but
like Mitchell Robinson's injuries almost helped Jolen Brunson a little bit in that regard,
like do more, And here's it's not just that do more than Like there's
a lot of having Boyan Madonovich space defenses to the corner, which again has
value. He's new to this team, but like he can do more stuff
that I don't think the Knicks have tried to utilize as much. And also
your offense will be better for it in the playoffs because we don't know what
Julius Randld's gonna look like, whether he's even gonna be playing. So give
boy Bondanovich those reps now where Okay, I'm not saying cost yourself a top
four, top three seed, but like, you know you're gonna be in
the playoffs, don't try and figure this stuff out on the fly in the
postseason or bury him to where Josh hart is playing forty nine minutes out of
forty eight a game and you need to just you're gonna trust the players.
I know Tim's gonna gravitate towards the players that give you more defensively, and
I understand that, but like I'm actually of the point where if Julius randol
ogim know we're gonna be healthy. At the same time, I actually want
to see what this team looks like if you play og Julius Randall, Hartenstein,
Bullying Abadanovic and Jalen brunts in together because yes, I think you have
enough to insulate point Abadanovic defensively there just between Hart and stein Og. Even
some of the assignments that Julius Randall just takes, that's a he's not gonna
always perform well. But the fact that you can and say, well,
yeah, you just go guard johannest I want to see them get to that
stuff. Julius Randold's not there. Oh, Janetobe's banged up. I recognize
that. I really am of the mind that if you want to make a
dent in the playoffs, if you want to reach the conference finals, I
think you need pulling on by Donovic almost unless you just trust that Julius Randall's
gonna be one healthy and have an A plus playoff performance. And I don't
think you could trust either of those things. No, I mean, that's
the problem is it's hard to trust in almost anything in terms of the personnel
as well as their performance because like the injuries, like Anonobi again is out
with the elbow, and it's like, I don't know if you saw this,
but like the implication is that like he doesn't like playing through pain and
so he just doesn't do it, which was you know, that's you don't
see a lot of reports like that where it seems like a real shot being
taken. But like the reality is so we have not seen and may not
see Brunson, Devincenz, Anonobe, Randall and Robinson share the floor. Have
not seen that obviously because Anonobe showed up late via trade uh and Robinson was
hurt. But if you take Robinson out of there, the other four guys
have played three hundred and seventy four possessions. This was a data from a
you know, a few days ago, so it's but it's not much higher
than that, and that's like, that's nothing. So this is a team
that was fundamentally remade at the trade deadline, that has had its entire front
court hurt for like a huge chunk of the season. So like it's not
just oh, the roster we came into the season with hasn't had time to
gel. It's like, well, that roster and our new one also haven't
had time to gel. So it's like I hesitate to make it like a
real huge issue that they need to fix, you know, like yesterday,
because I don't think they may climb to three in the East, and that
would be great but they're if they have like the third best defense, right
whatever, Yeah, second best in the league in the last two weeks for
sure, Like their defense is fine, Like well unless you know McBride and
Hart just like catch on fire, you know, that's part of it too,
is like you need and that would be where Burke comes in, is
like, yes, in the postseason, you want to play them those minutes
if you need to find But there's people were sort of like Josh Hart says
he's okay with playing forty eight. So what's the big freaking problem. Go
fucking ask Muel Dang what the problem is. That's the guys whose careers ended
early because they broke it up. But I just want I was gonna say,
like, if they fall to five and that just means they play Orlando
without home court in the first round, I'm still gonna take the Knicks in
that series. I feel like, look, Orlando games might be home games
for the Knicks with all the rug Yeah that too, but like I'll just
take the team that is Jalen Brunson and not over comple and the second best
defense in the league over a good chunk of the season. So yeah,
but like to me, The goal is just like, get as many of
these guys back on the floor as possible one so we don't kill the two
guys that are playing fifty minutes a night. We're just gonna keep uping it.
You said forty nine, I'm gonna go fifty. It will just eventually
it'll be like two hundred minutes a night. We're gonna get people like you.
I know, there's only forty eight minutes in a game, right,
what about overtime? Will Chamberlain once averaged over forty eight minutes per game for
a season? Did you know that that's what's wrong with players today? What
happened to the game that I love? Not will be given one back?
You know, three full decades before I was born, back when I loved
the game of basketball as it was no But they got to get these guys
healthy so they can see what they have right and and not you know,
run all these guys into the ground. It seems pretty straightforward. So may
make of this was not planning our outline, but there I've seen some on
a couple of like and heard on a couple of like respected podcasts, and
it's also just a sentiment outside of New York. I think certain fans that
Jalen Brunton's value, his fringe MVP case or more so was all MBA case,
is just inflated by all this dude does is play a ton of minutes
and have all shit. You haven't seen Jalen Brunson play basketball, if that's
your take, Like that guy is, Like I think so. The things
that you might say about Brunson that are really compliment menory and true are the
types of things you might say about a player who's not as good, which
is like he's relentless, he's super smart, he's crafty, he plays really
hard, like he makes big shots. Like sorry if those are cliches that
you might use to like pump up of a not so good player, but
like those are things he really does do in addition to all the numbers,
like I just if I should look, he's just a really good all NBA
caliber point guard, Like that's it. And the fact that he just all
of a sudden turned into on balance for the entire season. I know there's
been some troughs lately, one of the most effective off the dribble three point
shooters in the league. We're just we're just going to discount that. Yeah,
no, that guy's a stud, like I have no I have no
knocks. Oh is Jalen Brunson my no notes player? I mean he should.
I wish he were slightly better defensively. I have some notes, can't,
can't, I don't kind of wish. I do think he is room
to be a better passer. There are limitations with when you look at the
level of traffick he faces, and he he's kind of small. He's not
gonna have the same line of sight as a bunch of guys. But the
fact that if you have an issue with his passing, if you have an
issue, look, his biggest weakness defensively is not really even the motor so
much. It is just like his size, right. He can't do anything
about that. And he's an He has an All NBA case despite all of
that. So I just thought I was because I heard it multiple times from
people who were like, it wasn't just fans of other teams. It made
me kind of stop. Oh, it was just it took me. It
disarmed me. It's the way I well, re arm yourself. Because we
moved to the Orlando Magic because the Knicks are probably going to see in a
playoff series coming up quite shortly. Here, what's the magic goal for you?
So I really want to just say, shoot more threes, damn it,
but they don't have the personnel to do so. Although shout out to
Jayleen Suggs for kind of ratcheting up his volume and being lights out from there.
What I would like to see and look this is because people think you
no one talks about the Magic unless it's something to criticize them. Since January
thirty, first, only the Timberwolves are allowing fewer points per possession, and
just five teams during that same quarter season span we're talking about like twenty two
games or twenty five games or whatever. It is just five teams have a
better net rating overall. So the verdict there is holy crap. What I
would like to see from them on offense is to trim down the turnovers.
This is definitely an easier said than done situation. And some of this stuff
cannot be circumvented because it's ingrained into their DNA where it's yes, if you
look at what Jamal Mosley does with their floor balance, the magic actually space
the floor. Just go watch a half course set they space the floor right.
Defenses don't care and that's the issue. They're gonna throw the blitzer at
a Palo Bank Cao, They're going to pack the paint, and that then
lends itself to certain turnovers. And so you dig into like the specific turnovers
that they have. They have the sixth most terms, so that is we're
just gonna acknowledge that. And when you look at okay, they don't really
have a floor general, there's a lot of like no point guard lineups you
could call it, depending on how you feel about Jaalen Suggs, which is
the right way to lean. You get the bad passes. But then you
dig into what I would call the low hanging fruit, and that is they
are sixth in the most turnovers from travels on the season, and they are
third in stepping out of bounds turnovers. Let's course correct those, like,
let's get those, let's eradicate those from the diet, because that's going to
give you more possessions. And the other thing that I think you could do
is like when you're seeing Franz Wagner or Jalen Suggs or Palo Bin Carrol namely
trapped, like let's get to the ball in more efficient spots, and I
think Franz Vodner has done a lot better job of being in the right spot
for those. Can we see more of that from the personnel, because if
you do that, this team is already a force to be reckoned with because
of its defense, because it has some good top ten players. But if
you're able to clean up the stuff that you can actually clean up on the
offensive end, it is not outside the realm of possibility. You're telling me
they're going to be matched up with the Knicks. Maybe they're matched up with
the Calves. It's just there is no team at this point that I would
be aside from the Celtics that I would be shocked if they beat in a
seven game series. Yeah, their spacing is so good that it's illegal.
You said they have great spacing. The reason it's so good is they're standing
out of bounds. Maybe that they got it so less slightly less spacing would
be ideal. On the sidelines in particular, I don't know if you gave
the overall the raw number twenty six in turnover rate, and you know,
you know what's wild during this stretch where they're seventeen and five with the second
best defense and top six net rating, they're twenty ninth in turnover rate,
so more more turnover more, I mean more frequently at least relative to lee
average at that point. And it's just what I mean, they should try
to be thirtieth if that helps the record. It's that's a good point.
Correlation, that's a good point. So mine is just it's we could go
any direction with the offense. You sort of have to focus there. The
stat that like is hard for me to get over. So I was one
of the things I was going to think and think about mentioning is like who's
the third you know they need? The goal should be figure out a third
option? Like who is it? Is it Sugs? It seems like it
kind of could be Wendell Carter because he brings the spacing dimension and he has
like a little more of an offensivevent than Suggs does. The fact is like
this is just a collective personnel issue. Of their seven most used five man
units, none of them score at a rate above the league average or even
at the league average. So it's like at some point you have to go
all the way down. I'm trying to see so the only this is one,
two, three, four, five, six seven. So you get
all the way down to Cole Anthony, Joe Ingles Franz, Jonathan Isaac and
Mo Wagner. That is the most used lineup Orlando has that scores at a
rate above the league average, which seems like, you know, okay,
maybe that great. So anyway, it may just be like that guy's not
on this roster and you got to lean on the defense and hope, you
know, you get to the foul line enough or make enough tough shots to
survive, which is not the worst plan when you have a defense this good
and you can, conversely, compared to the offensive personnel you can put out
there, you can just put good defensive player after good defensive player on the
floor with this roster. So but yeah, there's a tough I think they
recognize everything you're saying too, just when you look at the way that they've
kind of used Markel Foltz since he came back from injury, which is sparingly
Uh, they're good, like because could that have been a guy And it's
like kind of trying to elevate Jalen Suggs to that and even just the Cole
Anthony's not hitting his threes recently. That's been tough on them. It's probably
if you had to pick who their third best offensive player is, I think
it's it probably is Wendell Carter June, but I think Jales Stubbs make himself
a case, and then you have Cole Anthony of course, yeah that's the
I mean, but Cole Anthony just hasn't made a shot this year. It
feels like thirty one point eight percent from three. Yeah, it's got I
think it should be Carter, not only because like he's just a tick under
forty percent from deep, doesn't shoot enough, but it's like that's that you
know he I don't know, is it premium spacing if it's that low volume,
but from a from a center position, so it's more valuable, like
maybe more looks up for him. The issue with that, though, is
the way that he might be most valuable on offense. It's hard to kind
of accentuate with the way defenses are going to defend this team because of the
lack of proven, high volume shooting right. And it kind of came back
that we had this discussion last week about could Markel Foltz improve his value by
with post touches and like maybe, but that's not how happened in Orlando,
right, Like what he will be sorting, You won't even be able to
see him in there. He'll be surrounded by so many defenders, Like that's
just it's gonna be yeah, no of them, we're probably defending him at
that point. This is why, as ridiculous as it sounds, like Klay
Thompson for like a huge overpay and free agency would make a lot of sense.
Or like that's why the Zach Levine to Orlando thing was like, oh
my god, don't do that, but like also maybe do that because the
one thing I would ask you is why I've seen everyone talk about Klay Thompson.
Why is he considered more gettable than Buddy Heel? Yeah, right,
I don't know. Yeah, this is a question for another podcast. But
like Clay's gonna get a higher annual value contract than Buddy Healed, right,
Like, if we're just talking about specialists now, like Klay Thompson, I'm
still taking as my shooting specialist over Buddy Healed, aren't you. If that's
all he's got to do, you're not no, But if that's all he
has to do, But like don't you want something like Buddy Heel who can
set screens and maybe keep the ball moving a little bit better. And I
guess if you really trust that Clay can still lock up on certain nights,
I kind of understand, I do not. Well, you're you mentioned,
uh Bogdanovitch for the Knicks, like I've never seen him look so quick as
he did blowing by Clay Thompson over and over again against the Warriors the other
night. Bogonovic must have thought like he's like, oh my god, what
did I eat today? Why am I? So it's just like, man,
I gotta did he have well, did he have roasted pumpkin or fish
stew? Maybe that fish stew and roasted pumpkin? And I don't know.
I don't think you're the real ones who listened to the last podcast. Yeah
right, everybody else is like what is wrong with you people? Let's move
to the sixers, who alphabetically in fact are next. So what's their goal
down the stretch here? So I have prioritizing the long term and what part
of this they've already done this? When you look at their cap sheet,
they can get upwards a sixty plus million in space while carrying Maxi's own cap.
Hold. What I actually mean by this is Joel Beats apparently returned to
practice. If this is a natural progression to play, fine, let it
happen. If it's not, we need to table the urgency. They looked
like they could maybe contend with anybody when he was healthy. What are the
odds that won? It's still true with this version of Tobias Harris on the
court and the Anthony Melton injured. And then two, what does Joel and
Bean look like once he comes back. I'm not saying I will get into
the second part of this in a second. I'm not saying that they should
just know he shouldn't play like we don't care about the season at all.
You have natural urgency because you have Joel embiid. But there's no reason to
be like, well, he needs to come back, because even if he
does, you're not winning a title this year. He's probably not gonna look
like himself this year. What are you actually accomplishing at that point? Now,
there is something to accomplish at that point, and a Joell again,
if this is the natural progression to play from his meniscus injury, bring him
back because I would like to see what does Buddy Heald and Tyre's Max and
Joel Embiid look like. That then instructs how you're going to handle your cap
sheet. Whereas well, do we bring Buddy Heel back or how invested are
we in bringing Buddy heel back. I would give anything to see. I
don't care who the fifth member of this unit is. If the Anthey Mountain,
then and Bee can get healthy and we see them plus Heel plus MAXI,
what type of damage does that unit do? And so it needs to
be about optimizing what you're doing this summer in the next season. And if
that is one holding Joel Embiid out for the rest of the year, so
fucking be it. But more to that, if he's just gonna come back,
I really want to see them spam and try out everything that you could
imagine functionally possible with healed MAXI and Embiid, because they're gonna have bigger fish
in their sites. And I'm not saying we need to keep Buddy Heeld instead
of going after Paul George. You can do both, like you can resign
Buddy Heeld and still have a Max slot available. But I do want to
see, like, what is the like Joel Embiid playing with Buddy Heild and
Tyrese Maxey. That's a parashooters that he's never had in Philadelphia, So I
want to see what that looks like. And the goal needs to be to
spam that, which might be a dub moment, but it goes into do
it at the expense of the long term. If you see certain lineups meshing
or gelling better, you have to move past it because you're not. Yes,
you are about this season, but you've telegraphed very clearly, even before
the James Harden trade that you're also not. Yeah, it's a really rare
situation where it's like the tension all year has been we have an MVP in
his prime, we got its go time, but it's also like I can't
remember the last time that was the case. We're also, you know,
beyond any doubt. The front office is like, but all you know,
next next year is really kind of the year. We're just gonna We're gonna
just have a tow in like both pools I guess, which is not a
phrase, but you get the idea. I'm gonna go one farther. We
really do a line on this issue. But I'm just gonna say their goal
should be to resist the urge to let Joel Embiid come back and play under
any circumstances. And like it's kind of just saying it differently because you're saying,
well, if it's the natural progression, then sure, come on back.
Like I'm saying, Joel Embiid under the best of circumstances tends to break
down in the playoffs. Like that's just that's a thing. And so what
you're gonna be asking him to do even if like rehab's gone great, somehow
he's back in shape, which is like it's a knee injury, so he
wasn't running for a long time. And the other thing is there's a difference
between being in shape and being in game shape. Sure, And like I
just don't see a scenario where, even if it is the natural progression,
he's you know, gotten through all the hallmark, you know, whatever the
checkpoints are that he needs to get through to be cleared. It's just like
I think he's he's gonna be probably heavier, he's probably gonna be more susceptible
to injury, reinjury or injury elsewhere. And again like what's the goal,
Like, Okay, if you can win a title with Joel Embiid, like
because he's an MVP and because he's that great, go for it. But
like what you're asking him to do is come back probably hobbled, certainly not
in the kind of game shape you're talking about, and advance two rounds farther
than he ever has, like now this year, now with months off,
like forget it, Like that's just the payoff, you know. Is there
a chance that he could lead them to a title? I guess, but
the old overwhelming odds are like that isn't going to happen, and the risk
of like getting hurt again is just not worth this infinitesimally small chance of the
reward. Like, I just the it doesn't compute to me as like a
sound decision, And it's hard because like, oh players, healthy players should
play right, you can get really simple that way. I just like,
combined with the fact that they're so clearly gunning for like probably Paul George or
somebody else, with all this cap space where they're going to use it to
trade, we have to always we've been we've been blessed with the wisdom that
you can use cap space to facilitate trade, so it's not just signing like
this just isn't it. It's not the time, So just don't bring him,
don't don't bring him back, don't play him, just like you had
a bad break and you've been gunning for next year anyway, so let's just
try it again. Use gribrity value though, to kind of sort of what's
happening in Memphis where brand and Clark's expected to come back and the gap wouldn't
be this long, But you bring him back because it's well, not playing
basketball for a year is a lot better than not playing basketball for eighteen months,
And so he brings you on and be back now where it's okay,
Well, at least he'll been back on the court, gotten his game legs
under him, and you go rather than, oh, we're just gonna hold
him out until next October, that's just such a long stretch to not have
played competitive basketball. Yeah, that's true. I'm still I think even that
if I'm doing like the risk reward calculus, I'd still rather give him be
like twice the normal recovery time and then the summer to be back, because
like I don't know this might be too bleak, but it's like how many
more shots are you gonna get with him? You know, where he makes
it through a season, like we sort of haven't had one like ever,
so the odds are probably long anyway, but like it just make it next
year, Like next year has got to be the just the all the eggs
are in the twenty four to twenty five basket. There's just it's I don't
know, I don't understand. I don't see the payoff potential if you if
you try to bring him back this year, and like the downside is immense,
like what if he gets hurt again? Like I just and based on
his track record, that seems like that's not an unreasonable possibility. All right,
So we kind of that's the first one we've really kind of targeted the
like almost exact same issue. Uh oh boy, Toronto Raptors. Your next
What are we gonna say about the Toronto Raptors? Dam so well one?
Uh thoughts good vibes to the Barrett family. RJ losing his younger brother.
I still haven't seen an age, but if he's younger, RJ. Barrett's
super young. That's incredibly sad tragic. So yeah, sending good vibes thoughts
to them. So what I have for them is, and this is just
tough now because Scotty Barnes is out and definitely Yaka Purtle's out and definitely,
but let's figure out map out the ideal fifth member of their core. And
by that, I don't mean the who or even necessarily the how they get
him, but the archetype that they need. And I think a lot of
that because we know about the leap that Scotty Barnes is already made, because
we know what RJ. Barrett has done in a more free flowing offense that's
going to help him get momentum and then get to the basket because you kind
of know what you have in Yaka Pearl. And by the way, I'm
viewing their four core members as Yaka Peardle, Manuel Quickly, RJ. Barrett,
and Scottie Barnes. To me, it feels like a Manuel Quickly might
direct this more than anyone else. And Samson foc Raptors Republican wrote about not
this specific topic necessarily, but about the development of Emmanuel Quickly in Toronto,
where he's now done. They haven't They're treating him like a league guard because
they have to, and he has shown some flashes where it's oh like the
live dribble, not picking up his dribble as much being smarter with that.
That's important. But you need to answer the question not just because he's coming
up on restricted free agency? Do we view him as a league guard to
where Scottie Barnes a Manuel Quickly and even what you get from RJ. Barrett,
that's enough just playmaking right there. If the answer is yes, it
then't simplifies your search. We know that their next guy needs to be a
wing, but it won if Emmanuel Quickly is a league gar guard, it
increases the likelihood that the answer to what you want is your fifth core player
is already on the roster. Could it be Gary Trent Junior the north South
heus what he does defensively. Could it be Grady Dick with the motion shooting,
with the ability that he's kind of shown in flashes of what he's gonna
do on closeouts, the ball moving, he's positionally, he has good size
for his position on defense. The fact that he doesn't cover or shouldn't cover
star wings that works against him. But if I em Manuel Cookie is a
league guard, you could then say, well, we need a wing who
just defends and spaces the floor and doesn't need to do much else. Now,
if Emmanuel Quickly is not league guard material, that's going to complicate the
search and make it much higher stakes. And so that's what you sort of
and it's almost I'm not saying not having Scottie Barnes has been and will continue
to be a blessing in disguise. I do think Emmanuel Quickley would be better
on you have Kelly Olynic there right now, but I think he actually would
be better off with Yaka Perle in the lineup to help him run some stuff
there, having that traditional big in addition to Kelly Olinock, who's gonna give
you more space. But I think Yaka Pearl is going to do more to
open up spacing with screens for you with the manual. Quickly now you know
that you need to have the ball in his hands and figure all this stuff
out. And so we're gonna get even more volume on this. Can he
come and if he's gonna make strides under less than ideal circumstances where r J
barrets miss in time right now because of the death of his younger brothers again,
as he should. You're getting this information that it's valuable, but I
still personally don't have the exact feel for what I want that fifth core player
to be. And if you want to get into the discussion, Wall,
I don't think Yaka Pearls should be part of this corn. I don't think
RJ Barrets necessarily part of the core. The Raptors have decided that these four
guys are the meat and potatoes are their core right now. So I'm trying
to figure out what's the archetype that fits best. And that's what the Raptors
need to determine and use the rest of this season to kind of decide.
Yeah, a couple things, I mean, one that could extend to the
guy they potentially pick with their first round pick, if it doesn't convey to
san Antonio, Like, that's on the table too, So you've got to
be thinking, like you have there's ways to get them. It's probably like
they could have cap space this year if they choose like twenty eight plus million,
I think even with quickly sold or it's do we need to get this
guy via trade? So there's different mechanisms to get him. But for me,
it's less of the the who when you're talking about names and how more,
I guess it's the what. What's the what's their what? How?
Right? Yeah, we forget what's your why? What's your what? Uh?
I? So my mine is I don't know if it's a goal per
se, because figuring out what Emmanuel quickly is worth is something that the market
is just going to decide for them. But in terms of like what I'm
interested in for them, I think and you like some of the things you
touched on, where like, well, what is he? Is he a
lead guard? Is he not? Like? And then you're trying to answer
like what he needs around him depending on what the answer to that question is.
All of that informs like what is he worth? And that's a very
practical question for the Raptors, because you know, you did not trade for
this guy to be a rental. Presumably you viewed him as well, I
don't know what. Maybe he's your lead guard, maybe he's not, but
you viewed him as an important piece of the next good iteration of your team.
And so is it five for one thirty five, which was a reported
expectation of his Like I hope not, and I don't think so. But
is it something closer to what the Knicks offered, which was like around eighteen
million a year reportedly, Like you feel pretty good about that, but it's
I'm very very interested to see what it's not like Toronto has like we're walking
away. It's like, that's not the situation. I mean, I guess
I guess if they were just kind of like they knew about ogn Andobi's health
oddities more so than any other team, so they could not that they would
have viewed that as a sunk cost. But what you gave up or how
you value to Manuel quickly in that trade over first round cost controlled equity?
Like what is the I would like, what is the number that would be
your actual walk away number? To word, That's what I mean. I
don't I don't think there can be one realistically, but like you know,
and and like, look, you've got the dearth of teams around the league
that are gonna have the you know, I don't think quickly is like who
the Sixers have been waiting on for example, you know, there's like the
Pistons. If boy, if the Pistons threw him a max with just throw
another guard in there for the folks at home. So his MAX would be
from and this is like just the starting salary his and maybe they care about
the year's element of it as well. But his MAX next season is projected
to be at like thirty five point three million. Yeah, so I a
four year max from an outside team would be four years and one hundred and
fifty one point six million. Is there a team that you could see?
We agree it's not the Sixers with MAXI there, Well, who's got I
know, Detroit's got sixty plus million? Somebody else that I can't remember right
now. Would Orlando if they could get to that number consider it? Oh
well, Orlando makes a hell of a lot more sense than Detroit or Philly
because fre I mean, you know, I say, if Orlando could get
to that number, and if they won, I'm pretty sure they could have
like sixty plus million in gaps base. Yeah, it doesn't matter if he's
a if he's a lead guard or a secondary guard, Like, he's still
an upgrade offensively over whoever. The magic would play at either of those spots.
Yeah, So I don't know, it's not a goal or whatever that
they can solve down the stretch of this season, and by the way,
quickly is also out for personal reasons, with no timetable to return as of
reports today, So like, maybe you don't even get to see him play
that much down the stretch to get a better idea of what he's worth to
you or for him to like choose his value by playing really well. That's
a fascinating free agency situation to me, Like, I just like you can't
walk away. You've got to decide on a number, and it's like there
are a couple of teams out there looming that might really make things interesting.
Do you think what's if I set the over under at thirty one million for
him as an average annual salary, Like in terms of what I think he
will get or what I think he should get, what do you think he'll
get? It's tough because the Raptors could go through the fifth year, right,
I think that I think I think I would go under that number,
just because that seems I don't know that it's it used to be for someone
that you if you're still not sure he's lead guard, that's right, Like
if he's yeah, if he's if he's a really great I think he's better
than this. But if he's a really great first guy off the bench at
either guard spot, like that's way too much, you know. But if
he's I think he almost has to be. If you're gonna pay him that
much, he has to be your lead ball handler, like in the starting
lineup, and you gotta feel great about that, right because I mean,
I know the CAP's going up, but the as of those into the thirties,
it's like you can't have a lot of questions about the guy if you're
into the thirties. The other thing, too, is I this is stepping
on this with what we just said. I just don't know where the mega
offer sheet is coming from. I think Detroit or Detroit Orlando they have the
juice, like the final Angel juice to do it. I just don't know
Orlando. That run's contrary to everything they've basically done. And then I guess
Detroit's a wild card for sure. I thought about Spurs, but they would
need to create the cap room where it's like we need to undo that disastrous
Zach Collins deal, or can we trade Kelton Johnson into someone's cap space?
But like they're not really a team that maybe they would I'm just like,
where's the Detroit feels like not the best fit but most likely, and Orlando
might actually be the best fit, but the least the least likely team to
do it. Uh. Yeah, Utah is projected to have a good chunk
if they want to. I don't know, Keynte George is there, so
you're their set forever? Yeah, I mean okay, see doesn't doesn't make
a lot of sense there. Charlotte doesn't make it. I mean no,
I think you got the you got the discount Emmanuel quickly and Trey Mann for
in Charlotte. Yeah, maybe that's just what it is, like, the
big offers not coming. So maybe Toronto can you know, get into the
mid twenties and put a cap on it. Yeah, I think it'll definitely
be over twenty five annually. Yeah yeah, all right, we got one
team left that is last and least, the Washington Wizards. So I have
identify keepers from the flyers that they have on the roster, and I actually
have a list of my five favorite ones, one of whom is not a
flyer, but I do think he's coming up on an interesting flashpoint. But
like they've already, they've been in experimental mode for quite some time. And
now you have Blackcool Bali with the wrist injury, Dniyavou is dealing with with
a knee injury. Those sort of nudge them to even further in that experimental
direction. So you're gonna get a ton of information on some of these players.
It's not going to be the most watchable basketball, but I think your
goal is not to find another building block and read because we all know there's
that late season noise which I think Jalen Green might be the king of at
this point where it's like I just come on in like the latter quarter of
it. I can't wait to talk about Jalen Green further when we do the
West, I cannot wait. So the names that I have to monitor here
for them, so I'll go in reverse order. I think of who interests
me the most. I have Corey Kisspert, who's not a flyer. He
does more on offense. I think that people understand. But he is extension
eligible, and so just what is he worth to this team if anything?
And extension talks, and so that's why I'm sort of monitoring him. And
he's gonna have more have the ability to have more responsibility if he stays healthy.
Because of the available personnel they did sign. He was on their summer
league team. He was drafted in the I think it was forty second overall
in twenty twenty three. Tristian Vukovic. So not Vucevic, but Vuksovich.
Excuse me, so Tristan Vuksovic. I would like to see him play based
off what I went back and watching him in summer league. He flashed some
nice outside touch and then like really good pinpoint passing. This team needs a
big of the future. This is to say like they have, especially with
Marvin Bagley banged up right now, and like your other names are Rashaun Holmes
on this roster, they have the ability to throw Vuksovich in there, and
I'm hoping he makes his debut soon to see what he could do as a
a playmaker, just as the big man in their system. Uh after him?
Do you know who's been like pretty He's only played I think I've seen
him in a couple games, and I think he's only played in six or
seven on the season. I'm very intrigued by Jules Bernard. He's shown good
patience process working on ball. He's six' seven, which is great size
for the two or the three, and he had this I don't know if
you saw any of that Celtics Wizards game the other night, and it was
garbage time, so if you'd were watching, maybe a turn off. He
hit this like off the balance above the break three in the face of I
don't remember if it was al Or or whoever it was, and it just
made me like, oh, there might be something here, and so is
this some guy that you should make sure is on the roster for next season.
And then Jared Butler, there's something to be said about a shop making
efficiency and he's definitely not point guard of the future material, but the live
dribble vision from him, it remains disarming to me. And then my top
guy for them is Justin Champenni. If you get him to actually take threes,
between that and his rebounding, he could be sort of the consummate complimentary
player. I'll do apologies to Johnny Davis. I remain out on him and
Patrick Baldwin Junior. I'm not focusing on them. Then goal for the Wizards
here for me is just you're gonna have the information on these guys. Can
you identify one or two who absolutely positively should be not part of the next
Great Wizards team, but on your roster next season. Yeah, I mean
it's it's telling that like I'm gonna go up a notch in terms of like
figure out if this guy, if you know who is, You're like,
which flyer like might be an NBA player, and that the Wizards have plenty
of those. The Wizards also have plenty of guys that are like, I
don't know, does this guy should he should he be here at all?
Like or is he a cornerstone? And like, I think the answer if
you said, like do the Wizards have a cornerstone right now, you would
have to say, like, well, I don't know. You might mention
Koulibali, who you said is hurt. The other guy is Denny Avdya,
who you mentioned he's also should have been to really inflate his lates. He's
a most improved player case, but that ship apparently at sal Yeah, I
think it's uh, he's been listed as day to day. It's a knee,
so like, don't bring him back. It's just not even worth it.
Yeah, he last played on the fourteenth, and we're recording this on
the twentieth, So like why would you bring him back? The reason Dan
you bring him back is I think I think Avdya has done enough. Like
I'll just give the numbers for this season except the fourteen points a game,
just under seven boards, just under four assists, shooting more three or shooting
threes better, actually not shooting more threes, but thirty eight point eight percent,
making over half of his field goals. So like, to me,
he is the closest thing to like, this guy's gonna be a good starter
going forward for a long time, Like I don't know, Tias Jones is
there too, Kuzma's there, but I think you what would have been ideal
and what would be ideal if Avvidya can needs to play, which again may
not be advisable given like what are we doing, you might learn or get
a better idea of like what kind of cornerstone slash like sure starter is he
gonna be? Because the facilitation moving up is really interesting to me because you
remember, like last year we just talked about what a good defender this guy
is, Like, oh my god, like he came over billed as like
I don't know, like a cross between like I don't know Gallinari and I
you know, choose your more defensive minded euro guy there you go very defensive
minded. But I think like what Avidia has done in an abbreviated season again,
like who knows how much value to put on like anything that's happening with
the Wizards, let alone in the last like month or so of the season,
But like he's done enough to show like you could kind of you could
get creative with how you decide he's gonna be yoused, Like is he on
the ball a lot going forward? Is he is the shooting now a thing
where he can be like a second a true secondary facilitator that's like moving around
off the ball and hitting threes? Like is he someone you're gonna put on
the best offensive player on the other team? Like I think a year ago
at this time, we would have said, like there's like one's there's like
a way for Avidia to be an impact player, and that's to just be
the best defender on his team and just like hopefully he gets by doing the
rest of the stuff to stay on the floor. Now it's like, I
don't know, there's a half dozen ways I could imagine him being the best
player on the Wizards next year, like, so it would have been cool
and hopefully, you know, if he plays, you'll get it. Just
Wizards figure out to the extent it's possible, give him the circumstances, like
what version of Danny Avdiya is gonna best serve us going forward? And then
the follow up question we always have to ask, like so then what does
he need next to him? So I just wanted to focus on someone besides
Bilallkoolbali because I feel like that's all we ever talk about with the Wizards.
He I'm not I've would have found a way to focus on him, probably
if he didn't have that injury, because we're trying to focus on Yes,
it's long term stuff, but it's also we need to watch it this season,
and I'm not gonna Can I make a revelation to you, I'm not
gonna be watching the Wizards the rest of the season. Sorry, What if
Vuksovic finally makes his debut, I'll you're gonna have to tip me off.
You're gonna have to let me know stat padding time, it's guess a player.
You want to do three each this time? Let me answer that after
I determine if I have at least that many from Mike Curnishing. Let me
see here, I haven't even looked at these, so this is gonna be
new to me too. I've got one, two, we can go.
We can go more than three if you want. Let's not do that because
I am pretty fucking tired. All right, Well, I'll let me give
you this one here. Let's all we want to alternate like we did last
sure, and try not to get it on the first clues. So Mike's
fourteen clue guess the players, so thirteen clues go. I don't see that
at his core. The other day we're talking about like the and you fucked
up Rubik Scale had the Danny Ainge one that you'd like so elaborate, and
you got it on clue one or two, one of my finer moments.
All right, so I'm gonna let's see. I want to give you a
chance here. All right, We're just gonna do this, all right,
Clue number one. Technically speaking, I was traded before I was drafted,
as two days before the two thousand and four NBA draft, the rights to
the pick that became me was traded with Jerry Stackhouse to Dallas for Christian Latner
and Antoine Jamison. Wait key one more time. Technically speaking, I was
traded before I was drafted, as two days before the four NBA Draft,
the rights to the pick that became me was traded with Jerry Stackhouse to Dallas
for Christian Latner and anton Jamison. I got nothing, all right, So
I guess this is Dallas is making this pick as a rookie in tooth clue
number two. As a rookie in two thousand and four, I averaged five
point seven points and two assists per game. With the per of fourteen point
seven, I was second in the league in steals for forty eight minutes,
behind Larry Hughes. He's on Dallas at this point. I'm pretty sure that's
how I'm reading it. I think that's right. Devin Harris, Oh shit,
that's correct. Sorry, Mike. Well, he waited until the second
clue to get that one. It is Devin Harris. Good, So what
got it for you? Just a Dallas rookie that got steals. Yeah.
I wasn't even positive that he was a rookie on Dallas, which is why
I never would have thought of him for the first clue. So unbelievable.
All right, Well, he won Rookie of the Month month in November of
four, but lost more and more playing time at the season progressed. Yeah,
because it's weird. I remember Devin Harris like as a net like when
he really was getting numbers, And then I think, doesn't he end up
back in I'm sure Mike will tell us it. He doesn't end up back
in Dallas? Where did he make his All Star team? Which team was
the onf got to be well, New Jersey, I guess at the time,
let's see, improved as a sophomore taking primary ball handling duties from Jason
Terry. That might have got you there too. It was at this time
my speed at the point guard position was drawing comparison to Leandro Barbosa and my
good friend Dwayne Wade averaged nine to three in my second year, shortened due
to injury. But I did play in the team's finals run, so that
might have got you there too, Dallas and six in the finals eight deadline,
I was traded with Desaannia Job, Trenton Hassel, Keith van Horn,
Maurice Ager Agerbaum, cash considerations and two first round picks for Jason Kidd,
also Malik Allen and Antoine Wright. If that helps in any way. First
full season with the Nets, career high forty seven even point game. Next
year, I made it to the All Star Game, traded for Vince Or.
After the Nets traded Vince Carter, I was named the team's captain,
and then at the eleven deadline, me and rookie Derek Favors are traded at
the Jazz for Darren Williams. Forgot about that. That's how Darren Williams gets
to the Nets. Remember that in twelve I was traded to the Hawks for
Marvin Williams. Back to Dallas for five years before pitstop in Denver. Back
to Dallas. He's the current color commentator for the Maths. Did you know
that? I didn't know that? H yes, you know with the the
MV was it the MVP, But it's the loud rims or the MVP of
that broadcast. All right, Well, bang up, job by you getting
it in two. Sorry, Mike. I'll try to read the clues more
confusingly so Nan doesn't get him so quickly. Okay, So I will baskly
you will get to I only have submissions from Mike and be Rich. You'll
get the first one from Mike, the second one will be from be Rich,
and then you'll get another one from Mike. Clue number one. I
was drafted by the Hawks in two thousand and three. Okay, all right,
clue too. My first two seasons, I was a pixture of the
rotation, starting sixty two of my one hundred and forty two games I played,
but never being much of a score. This isn't Marvin Williams, is
it? It is not okay O three by the Hawks, but never a
scorer started and played a lot MANH three. You might get it with this
next clue. All right, let's hear it. Clue three. After my
second season, I was traded to the Suns along with two first round picks
for Joe Johnson. Oh, Hawks to the Suns for Joe Johnson? Is
that after Joe Johnson shot like forty eight percent from three that year, that's
not part of the club ran Okay, So Johnson from the Sons to the
Hawks. Who goes to the Sons for Joe Johnson? What two firsts with
this guy gets you? Johnson? Correct? Man, I feel like I
should know this based on that it's the locks. I don't have it.
Clue number four. Though drafted as a shooting guard, the Sons made me
a truly positionless player, ranging all five positions because of injuries to players like
Kurt Thomas and Amari Stodemeyer. I started at center for Phoenix in the two
thousand and six playoffs. Oh is this sporis dia? That is correct?
So other clues Clue five. I got suspended for an important playoff game against
the Spurs because I left the bench to confront Robert Orrie about a hard foul.
Clue six. And two thousand and eight, me and Roger Bell were
traded for Jason Richardson and Jared Dudley, where I was part of a part.
I was part of Bobcat for three years before being waived. I did
play in the franchise's first ever playoff game, though, Clue seven. Two
days after getting waived by the Bobcats, I signed with the Spurs for the
rest of the season and changed my career. I resigned in the off season,
made the finals the next year in twenty thirteen. In twenty fourteen,
I won my first and only ring and in the eighth of well Wow.
There was eleven clues eight. It was during my time with the Spurs where
Bill Walton actually said this about me. And when you look at X X
and what he's done to this franchise, he's changed everything. We celebrate his
brilliance and when you talk to X you realize what a classical human being he
is. It was two hundred and one years ago today Beethoven's Simps Beethoven's Symphony
number three in E flat, which escorted it in the age of Romanticism and
music. And when I think of X, I think of Beethoven and the
age of Romantics. This guy has it all an all time Walton. I
mean everything he says is I did not know he said that about Bors the
year That's amazing, Like, how do you think that did? He was?
He just he must have come across that fact about the anniversary of whatever
symphony that was, and he's like, how am I gonna work this in
to the broadcast? He popped the shroom and it was He was golden.
He was very quickly the final three clues. In twenty fourteen, I resigned
with his Burst for three years twenty two million. I was traded two years
later. For a prospect who never played in the NBA and then waved by
the Jazz. I retired in twenty eighteen on Twitter after a year in my
home country. Tony Parker and I are best friends, and I was his
best man when he married Eva Longoria. I love Boris Dia. Just any
clue that involves him, all right? I this one was there last week
from Mike, But I really want to do this one because I think it's
like it's just the right level of like difficulty. So are you are you
ready? No? Not anymore I thought I was. There are only six
clues on this one. Clue number one. I was a lottery pick by
the Raptors in the mid two thousands. You want to just get real white.
No, Mo Peterson another he was the nineties. Maybe good year.
You're okay. I'm not gonna say you're on the right track, but those
are Raptors players, so you sort of are clone number two. Despite being
on the All Rookie team, I was traded after my first season to the
Bucks for TJ. Ford. Oh rap. He was on the Raptors as
a rookie and then traded to the Bucks for TJ. Ford. Yeah,
I got nothing. Okay, Yeah, the Bucks Bucks years are not as
memorable for this guy for some reason for me. Cluon number three. In
my third year with the Bucks, I averaged a career high sixteen points and
according to my then teammate Richard Jefferson, I'm responsible for creating NBA Twitter because
of a mid game tweet. That tweet got me in a heap of trouble
with head coach Scott Skiles. What readout you ready? Yes? In my
third year with the Bucks, I averaged a career high sixteen points. Stop
according to my then teammate Richard Jefferson, I'm responsible for creating NBA Twitter because
of a mid game tweet. That tweet got me in a heap of trouble
with head coach Scott Skiles. Did Jared Bayless? No, I didn't remember
this that that party either. This might get you balcked out Richard Jefferson being
on the Bucks right, all right? Clue four. After this season,
I signed with the Pistons for five years forty million dollars, which at the
time that's like no joke. I was supposed to pair with Ben Gordon to
bring the Pistons into a new era. It didn't happen. My numbers regressed
every season in Detroit. Charlie Villanueva, that is correct, very good.
What guy was it the contract? Yeah, but it was I. I
did not know him and Richard Jefferson were on the Bucks are the same,
They're like wild have a lot of guys like JJ Reddick was on the Bucks.
Remember, like, uh, Mike Dunleavy was a Buck for a minute.
Like there's all these guys that just were there for I forgot TEJ well,
I did. TJ Ford was all I remember about TJ Ford was that
like terrible spinal injury whatever. That was. All I remember about him is
the shorts, just the giant shorts. What you would have you would have
a million percent gotten it. In twenty ten, the next clue, I
tweeted out that Kevin Garnett called me a cancer patient. You remember that I
would have not Cag's finest moment during a game, something I took great offense
to as someone who has alopecia. Garnet and Doc Rivers responded that what was
said was that I was cancerous to the team and the league as a whole,
because somehow that's better. I'm not sure which is more offensive? To
be honest, Mike says that is correct. Both are terrible. After my
tenure in Detroit flamed out. I finished my career with the Maths. Forgot
Charlie. Uh. I kind of remem remember Charlie Villanoiev on the MAVs maybe
a little bit. So that's two for two for you. Are you ready
to get into the mind of a psychopath? I'm not getting any readier?
Be rich. Clue number one. I was drafted outside the lottery in nineteen
ninety five. Only Kevin Garnett and Rashid Wallace finished above me in career wind
shares outside the lottery ninety five finished above me in career wind shares. Wait
Kevin Garnett and who Rashid Wallace? All right, I don't have it,
go ahead. Clue two. I finished top twenty in MVP voting three times
in my career, was a two time All Star, and reached the playoffs
the last ten seasons of my career. That's kind of wild. So top
twenty in MVP voting three times but only an All Star twice? Yeah,
what the hell? So like a really good player that was on a well
for multiple good teams for the last ten years of his career. I got
it. I'm trying to think of that ninety five draft. Who else is
even in that Garnett's Like Garnett's the There was an ending to this clue.
I retired as Celtic. I apologize. That's part of Oh okay, retired
to Celtic ninety five draft, which is Garnett Wallace. Who the fuck else
is this? It's like mcdce in that draft. I don't know if he's
in that draft, but he's not the answer. No, no, no,
I'm just yeah, I'm trying to think he was. I think mcdce
was like the number two pick if I'm thinking of the right draft, which
would be like Joe Smith, mcdce third. Go okay, go ahead,
what's the next clue? Clue Number three? In iron Man, I averaged
thirty nine point seven minutes per game across nine seasons at the at the team
i'm most associated with, three seasons out of four. During that stretch,
I led the NBA in minutes played. There is a subclue to clue number
three as well. Oh is this Gerald Wallace? No? It is not.
Oh shit, fun. In fact, my college coach. Coach also
recognized my elite skill as I averaged thirty seven minutes a game in my senior
year of college. Jerald Wallis is a terrible guest. I apologize for that
one. That was ninety five. He was not in the ninety five draft.
Okay, so this guy's playing a ton drafted in ninety five outside the
lottery. Two All Star games finished with the Celtics. That's tough. A
lot of guys finished with the Celtics. I don't have it. Clue number
four of five, by the way, so you're shitting down the punchtime.
In my age twenty eight season, I averaged forty six point six minutes per
game In the playoffs, don Nelson was a fucking mad man. In fifty
six playoff games under him, A verse forty one point four minutes. Okay,
so this is a well, this could be a nick a Celtic,
a MAV. Wait which season? Did say? Which season? In the
playoffs? His age twenty eight season did ninety five, So we're let's just
say a one oh two oh three. That's gotta be a MAV. Oh,
Michael Finley correct, Okay, he's like one of the best players that
everyone just forgets existed. And the clue about him being a top twenty like
in MVP voting three times. Yeah wow. The final clue on this a
six foot seven inch wing. I teamed up with NBA legends Charles Barkley,
Dirtaviski, Kevinc Garnett, Steve Nash, Tim Duncan, Rashid Wallace, managing
Nobli, Robert Rory, and yep, you guessed it. Greg Buckner.
Well, because oh he's played with those guys. All right, so what
what team? I guess he's most associated with the Mavericks, I would think,
so it's gonna be the Mavericks, maybe the Spurs. I remember Phoenix,
I remember because I remember, Yeah, I think I remember. How
does he get from Phoenix to Dallas? Anyway? Okay, all right,
yeah got it. Michael Finley. What a good player. I deserved more
than two All Star Games. It feels like, all right, you ready
for another one? Yes, sir, let's see. I got two choices
here, all right, I'm gonna give you the newest one clue Number one.
I was drafted in the second round in two thousand Sandwich between Brian Cardinal
and Olumida O ya Degi how's yourn to two thousand second rounders H Clue number
two. Only playing in six games as a rookie on an Eastern Conference contender,
my coach made it a priority to play me more as a sophomore,
as two all star teammates of mine had my back. This led to a
scoring jump from two point two points up to eleven point four in sixty seven
games, but we missed the playoffs. Started eight of those sixty seven games.
As a sophomore, I got nothing. Okay, Clue number three.
In my third year, I played all eighty two games, starting fourteen and
improving my scoring again. The team made the playoffs but failed to make it
out of the first round. So but I guess that'd be two second round
You don't even have a team yet. That's the problem. Once again,
I'm not too up on second round picks from the year two thousand. You
know, he's in the Eastern Conference, so you know it only could only
be fifteen teams. Clue number four. After this season, as a part
of a roster refresh here we Go, I was rewarded the starting shooting guard
position after Ray Allen was traded for Desmond Mason and Gary Payton. The team's
faith in me was rewarded with an All Star campaign. I averaged twenty one
point seven points on forty seven percent shooting, with forty four percent shooting from
deep. We made the playoffs, but we were swept. Michael Red correct,
good job that I think you needed to get it there. Although you've
got boy, Mike's just piling the clues on clue five. We missed the
playoffs the next year and I hit free agency. This is where the Michael
Red story starts to turn sad. I think I was rumored to want to
play in my home state with the Calves alongside a still young Lebron. That's
how old this clue is. We're talking about a guy drafted in two thousand
that wanted to go play with Lebron at the time. Let's see, I
opted to Day for six years and ninety one million. Holy shit, I
forgot about that. My first purchase with the money from this contract was a
church. Following season, I set the franchise record for points in a game
that stood until the twenty three twenty four season when Yannas broke it. However,
when I set the record, no One tried to steal the ball and
start a fight in the locker Roomclude seven. I started dealing with nagging injuries,
especially with my knees. And nine I tore both my MCL and ACL
and I left me. I returned early in twenty ten, but I retore
the same mcl and ACL. God I forgot about that, and twenty eleven,
I finished out my career playing fifty one games with the Suns. Those
fifty one games were only ten games less than I'd combined to play in the
previous three seasons. I also retired, having not made the playoffs since six.
Oh my god, here I just this is great knowledge, final clue,
which I'm sure you would have gotten it on this one if you hadn't
gotten it by now. In Nelly's song Heart of a Champion, my name
was included among NBA stars and legends such as Magic Shack Ai and Kareem,
as well as well as NFL stars Ray Lewis, Babe Manning, and Julius
Peppers. I'm the only player mentioned that did not make their leagues Hall of
Fame, but immortalized forever by Nelly. I would not have gotten that,
by the way. No, that was the clue. If that was the
clue I needed to get it on, I would not have gotten that's the
clue you start with, I feel like, because that would just put you
completely on tilt, like I should have read it in reverse order. Okay,
I'm gonna be personally offended if you don't get this one correct. Don't
do that. Clue number one. I was drafted eleventh overall out of Tennessee
in nineteen ninety three by Detroit, a program legend. My number twenty jersey
is retired in Knoxville, Alan Houston. Correct, Wow, I'm sorry,
Mike. Clue two was I competed in the nineteen ninety four Dunk Contest in
which I headbutted the ball to myself. This is back when the dunk contest
sucked the first time. Despite Clue three, despite everything, forty points per
game is a sophomore nineteen point seven points per game. In year three,
Detroit opted not to extend me, and I hit free agency, signing with
the Knicks and immediately competing for and winning the starting shooting guard role from John
Starks in ninety six. Clue four known as an Ironman from ninety six until
two thousand and two. I missed no more than five games in a single
season, averaging no less than sixteen points per game, with my career high
being in two thousand and two twenty three twenty two zero point five, starting
all eighty two games that year. CLU five, while he was my head
coach, Jeff and Gundy, once parked his car too close to our team
plane. As the plane was taxing, the exhaust through Van Gundy's car into
the air and it landed on my Mercedes. I was not happy. I
did not remember that, did you. That's news to me, nice jot
Mike Clu six. In two thousand and three two thousand and four, injuries
started to catch up to me, as I missed thirty two games with a
knee injury. Clu seven. My last NBA game came in January two thousand
and five and is seventeen point loss to the Raptors. This is only of
note because allegedly before the game, Raptors super fan nav Bashia told me,
blank, you are getting older now and as a result, they're no longer
as effective as you once were. A prophecy and a well mannered shit talking
if there was ever one. Yeah, it was crazy It's like the most
level headed, cordial small talk of all. I feel you have the same
skills that you once did. That sound pert happily criticizing it. Right,
Oh man, are there more clues? Those are good clues. No,
that that was it on the clues. This was great. So send guests
of players. Join the discord if you want, or don't. Even if
you don't want, join the fucking discord. Come on. I just do
you remember the Alan Houston shot that from the from the free throw line?
Like, do you know what I remember against the heat? Yeah, the
one that like it rattle, it bounces up and falls in where and I
can see him like willing it to fall. I jumped out of my skin
when that happened. And do you know what I remember even more about that
shot? I mean that next team was that ninety eight ninety nine next team
was a lot incredible. But afterwards so they I think it was Terry Porter
there was point four point eight seconds left, caught the ball like behind half
court, he like pivoted, dribbled and got the shot off. And I
remember Jef Van Gundy in the postgame interview saying, only in Miami can you
pivot? Got a shot off in under half a second. It was just
never satisfied. I gotta have a gripe. That's so on Bramp. Yeah,
that shot lives in my memory. I don't know why that's so such
a weirdly iconic shot. I guess because Nick's heat was just such a like,
you know, there weren't a lot of nationally television games nix he there
wasn't that The same year too, the Larry Johnson four point play against the
Pacers was a yeah too, two thousand, right, it was two I
know that Larry Johnson was two thousand. Okay, then it was a different
year, I think, because I think that was Houston was ninety nine.
I believe the short lived Remember the Larry Johnson celebration where he made the LJ
thing? Oh man, and then it wasn't there like a tribute Chris Child
like made the l after he did something. There was oh Chris Child's uh
that those ones? And then I I'm pretty sure, although you never know
with stuff like this because it's so long, I'm pretty sure I was watching
the Reggie Miller eight points nine seconds game like in real time. Uh do
you remember watching that one? You'd have been like that would have been pretty
young. No, I think I was too young for that one. I
think that's ninety eight. I still can't. I can't watch the highlights of
it, though it does pain me a lot. It was I remember,
I think I loved Reggie Miller, like he was my favorite player for a
while, like just after that because that was like, so, I know
he's employed by our parent company. I feel like he catches too much shit
for his commentating because even if you don't agree with his points or the things
that he says, he's one of the call them older heads or gosh from
a previous generation who genuinely seems to still love the game of basketball. Oh
no, does not receive nearly enough credit for that. And it's weird that
that stands out like he's actually like still enthusiastic about the young players, like
all too happy to see like his records keep falling, like he has no
problem with it. Yeah, it's just like so like I appreciate And maybe
it's because that is the bar too low for that. I don't know,
but he just like genuinely appreciates and loves the game. And I'm going to
I compliment that excitability, just especially when we have just you know, the
analysis that we get from certain other former players. Yeah, that's a good
spot to end on. I think just a positive, a positive get out
moment. Everybody. Thank you, especially this time for the guests of players.
Again, as Dan said, if you would like to contribute to those
and if you want to, you know, if you can work in Greg
Buckner, that's more than likely going to get your guests a player picked,
all things being equal, join our discord. Links to do that in the
YouTube and podcast description. That's also where you can find links to merch,
rate, review, subscribe, tell your friends, tell your enemies, share
our podcast however you're consuming them, whether that's you know, giving thumbs up
on YouTube. Just however, however, you can goose the algorithm, get
us in front of our eyes, get us heard by more ears. That's
always very helpful and we appreciate it. It's gonna do it for tonight.
As always, we close with a shout out to the one and only frankin
Lakina and an apology to Jared Allen