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Comside Analysis dot com. And now here's your host through Eric Kavanaugh. All
Right, ladies and gentlemen, Hello and welcome back once again to the only
coast to coast radio show that's all about the information economy. It's called Inside
Analysis. Your host here, Eric Kavanaugh. On a very special episode,
folks were going to dive into the roaring hottest topic in the world of analytics
and AI and business intelligence as well. These days the large language models,
or foundational models as they're called AI. Chat bots, for example, have
been around for quite a few years now. Chatbots they were a bit rusty,
I think when they first came on the market. Maybe sometimes they weren't
quite ready for prime time. But my how things have changed, and certainly
open Ai threw down the gauntlet with chat GPT, but then Google has barred.
Of course, GitHub has co pilots. You have data breaks with Dolly
two point zero already, So these things are suddenly everywhere and everyone's talking about
in generative AI. That's the sort of broader subject area involved here, and
we're very pleased to have with us Mike Finley. He's the co founder and
chief technology officer for a company called Answer Rockets. They've been in the BI
space for quite some time now. We've been tracking them doing some pretty interesting
things, and we're going to talk about Max. Introducing Max, and I
have to say, remember the old movie It Wasn't Gunball Rally was one of
those kind of movies. Though in the end the guy goes push the button
Max, he goes boom. All these crazy things happen. But Max sounds
pretty interesting to me and folks, the extent to which these large language models
and foundation role models can change your workflow is really quite remarkable. One of
the smartest people I've met in a while. We interviewed him last week down
in Austin, Texas, and he was telling me he'll get technical briefs that
are one hundred pages long that he has to consume over the weekend. He'll
just dump it right in the chat cheepts. Give me a three page summary,
Boom done. I mean, that's like a dynamic cliffs notes engine basically
is what you can use it for. So these things are very very powerful,
and they're very complex under the hood. They could do some amazing things.
Now, there are these hallucinations we've heard about. Maybe we'll talk about
that, but let's get down to brass tacks and bring in Mike Finley from
answer Rocket. Thanks for your time today. Tell us a bit about MAX
and how MAX is helping with your bi initiatives. Sure, Eric, thank
you, and thanks for that introduction and the good launch for the conversation.
Yeah. So answer rocket helps businesses have I like to say they have conversations
with their data. Right. If you think of all the data that a
business has, and it's expensive to collect it, to collate it, to
save it away somewhere, being able to have a conversation with that data,
right, to treat it like it's the brain of the business, like it's
a simulation of the operations, so you can go in and say what happened
and when and why? Right, That's that's what answer rocket does. Right,
That's that's our expertise. Um, not so much. I want to
set right that's been done many many times. But answer rocket really is about
allowing that conversational interaction with with your database. And that's what it's been,
uh, you know, for ten years now, and of course with the
advent of language models, specifically most recently with gpt UM, that's suddenly taken
a huge leap forward in terms of that conversational capability, not just to be
able to identify what the user wants if they are clever enough to sort of
walk their way through the right keywords and the right commands, but just to
be able to vary candidly in any language of their choice, have that conversation
with the data, uh, and have have that that agent which is max
feel like a coworker who really understands, who really grocks what's going on in
the business. That's what we built well. And what's cool is these are
text generators, but they generate syntactically correct tax they generate meaning on having absorbed
goodness knows how many volumes of text and the training of these models, and
so they are very powerful and they can very quickly ascertain certain aspects of your
business, assuming you've connected the data to them or fed the data into them.
Basically to feed this data into a chat gpt right, and every one's
out there too, Dolly, whatever, whichever one you're talking about. Of
course, cold Pilot is great for coding, right and geth hub it's it's
doing the coding side. And Gmail was on this I think first, at
least in terms of general availability. You would note in Gmail if you're in
the condician your sentence, it's I was like, you know, a year
and a half, two years ago. Yeah, I was like, oh
wow, this is getting pretty interesting, and it was pretty good zoo.
Right, So these foundational models, and it's basically a language AI bot that
can interpret your data and then give you some insights about it, right,
Yeah, so absolutely. And there's the thing that the language model is really
good at is that interaction with the human. It's good at understanding what the
human means, like the subtleties and the intense, and it's good at explaining
the answer back to the human. Right, that's the part that it really
was trained to do. That's what it's really good good at is faithfully looking
up and using all the correct facts that are in your database. Right.
And so that's where answer rocket comes in. That's why this is such a
strong partnership between answer rocket and a language model. It says, the language
model can hold that that interaction with the human with all the subtleties, with
all the conversational aspects of evolution, of solving a problem, but allowing answer
Rocket on the back end to both retrieve the correct data, make the correct
decisions and calculations from that data, and then fact check the results that before
the language model ever presents it back. Right, So you really have to
You have to treat the language model like like you would treat a human co
worker. What would you do? You would train them on your business.
You would make sure that they are an expert in the area that you're talking
about, and you would fact check their results. That's what you would do
if it was were a human that you're talking to. So you have to
do the same thing with the language model. An answer Rocket does that by
essentially wrapping that interaction. So I had a great fund one the other day.
You know, a customer said, hey, what were the top five
products in you know, this category last quarter? And Max sent that to
the language model and said, hey, language model, what do they want?
A Language model came back and said, oh, they want you to
examine the product table and rank the top five members for the whatever, right
and so answer Rocket went away and got that data, produced the answer back
and said, by the way of these five, this one's an outlier.
Right. That's something that GPT wouldn't have known by itself, but we were
able to inject that in. Now GPT gives a great answer back to the
user saying, oh, there these are the top five. Good news,
there was an outlier, and it looks like that was due to growth in
California. Right. And then the user followed up with um, um okay,
which ones were the dogs? And so to those kinds of questions.
This is really where the language model and the bi tool working together is beautiful,
because if I tried to write code that said, if then else to
figure out what were the dogs, right or which ones were the dogs,
I'd be writing code until I'm retired, and um, you know, I'd
never have a chance to finish. The language model knew exactly what they meant.
It said, switch to bottom that's it, from top from top five,
switch to the bottom five and answer the same question it was. It's
it's those moments, are I mean, it's surely goosebump before a guy like
me who's been intech long time never really faced a problem that I didn't know
how to code. Uh you know, it's it's um. And now these
language models are just doing things that are fundamentally different. I mean, imagine
if you brought a contractor into your house and you said, hey, I
want to add a wall here, and they just scratch their head and said,
I don't know how to add a wall there. That can be done,
right. It's almost like like somebody said, make me a floating bathtub.
I don't know how to make a floating bathtub. That can't be done.
These language models are doing things that are so fundamentally new. And again
you hear a lot about this in the press. Not even their creators know
exactly how they work. And so I think we're just at the we're at
the beginning of all the possibilities where we've seen that. It's kind of like
that old Star Trek transparent aluminum moment, you know, when Scotty needed to
save a whale from the twentieth century or something and he made transparent aluminum.
Right, we have no idea. We're at that moment. We know we
have transparent alluminum, what do we do with it? Right? This is
where all the engineering wrapping the language model is coming about now. And this
is the whole ecosystem, the fountain of companies that are starting up around this
tech, you know, is so this is very interesting. So I think
about data warehousing, business intelligence, even business analytics to kind of stretch it
a bit further, all of these disciplines revolve around transactional data and it's really
numbers. I mean, there are tags that assigned to objects like products,
for example, services, but really you're talking about the numbers game that's moving
all around. Well, what's missing in that is the language to interpret and
explain what the ugers mean. And that's the magic that these large language models
are bringing into the equation is they can find ways to represent the facts in
a fashion that is meaningful and understandable and inspiring to the user. Right,
that's right, and that's really working at the user's level. Right. So,
if you go, if you go really back to the beginning of computing,
right in the eighteen hundreds, you know, you think of a problem,
you express it to the machine as a program. So right away you
are having to write your question in the computer's language. The answer comes back
to you as a spreadsheet. Right, so you are getting the answer back
in the computer's language. That paradigm is broken. One hundred and fifty years
in we finally broke out right. Now now we can ask the question on
our language and we get the answer back in our uage as well. Uh.
The analogy that I like to make is, um, you know data,
That data is digitizing your business. Right, it's a it's you know,
it's uh uh, it's the matrix. Right. The data should show
you everything about your business. If you just know how to look at the
data, you can see the business right. And this is this is exemplified
by seasoned executives who can look at a wall of numbers and spreadsheets and say,
oh my god, what are we going to do? Right? Um,
and nobody else in the room knows what it is, but they know
the numbers to look for. Well, um, if you try to if
you try to um uh digitize the business like that, you lose a lot
of the subtleties unless you have all of that depth. Right. So it's
kind of like you know, if I if I digitize Romeo and Juliet,
well, it's boy meets girl, boy falls in love with girl. Boy
loses girl. Right, it becomes a very boring story. Right. I
can't I can't digit I can't make transactional records out of what happened to my
business. The story is more subtle than that. The story is unstructured,
right, And and that's where that's where these language models are helping us.
Take that data, which by definition has to be structured because I have to
be able to record a series of things that happen in the business and turn
them into unstructured information, which is really where all the subtleties are, right,
It's where all the competitive edges, all the opportunities to improve, you
know, the whole idea of strength and weaknesses. Right, these are soft
things. These aren't digitized. And this is really where the language models is
helping is helping business users shine. Yeah. Well, the data is like
the wire frame essentially, and then the lms are filling in all the colors
and the shapes and the dimensions and the fluidity for example, to view this
rich experience to help understand what's going on. And you know, in terms
of structured data versus unstructured data, well, you can kind of get into
a semantics debate about the fact that languages do have structure, it's center acts,
and these llms understand that syntax is probably better than people do and can
explain things to you. And that's really the other interesting side of the equation,
right is you are having that conversation with your data. We've talked about
that for thirty years and it's business, but it's never really been that.
It's always been playing with the numbers, looking at visualizations, kind of identifying
patterns. But to have an engine then explain that to you in English or
French or German or code, that gets very, very interesting because now you
can really flesh out your understanding and it is a process you go back and
forth and say, hey, can you explain this? Can you explain that
I saw data bricks was talking about with Dolly, how you can use it
to explain your code to you? So, you know, let's think about
digital transformation, which of course is hugely important these days. And how many
of these old programs are written in coball. Well, there aren't that many
developers that write coball anymore. A lot of them are retired, and so
this has been a big sticking point. But it doesn't have to be because
you can just take corpus of code, PLoP it into your single instance chat,
GBT or whatever and say, explain to me what this is doing,
and it'll do that, right, sure, Yeah, extracted or translated or
do any number of things. Yeah. And you know, keep in mind
it's you're still in that, You're still in that. Treat it like you
would treat a human in other words, Uh, make sure it's trained on
the thing you're asking it to do, and then verify the results. Right.
So there's no free lunch even with the language models, but there is
a lot of acceleration that comes from from the capabilities that they're bringing that and
I think that's the term. I think we should pick on that term and
really drill into it. It does accelerate the process of learning, of designing,
of understanding, of sharing, of articulating. All these things are accelerated
by this kind of an engine. And you know, as a writer myself,
I'm a little bit leary of just using it to do writing, but
I will say it's very good at giving you the contours of a conversation,
are very good at giving you the pill is of a certain topic. If
we want to talk about data science, what are the top five issues in
data science. It will give you five really good issues. That's right for
data science. Absolutely absolutely. It's like a teacher that's helping you all along
the way, right, yes, so um, kind of like improv yes
and right um. And the end part is that by the same by the
same token, that it knows everything there is to know about things that are
general to the marketplace. It knows very little about your business. It knows
very little about the seasonal behavior of the sales of one of your products.
It knows very little about the supply chain issues that you have in monsoon season.
Right. It knows very little about your your competitor and your price wars.
Right. So that's where that's where again this one two combination of that
deically and how max works is really to say, hey, the language model
is talking to the user about the data, but answer Rocket is feeding in
those observations, those facts, those insights, not just in the form of
saying January was fifteen million February it was twenty million. No. Instead,
where January was an outlier even though seasonally we expected it to be high,
it was actually way outside of its even seasonal high parameters. And the reason
is these three drivers, and those drivers, one of them, by the
ways, that a record high for all time. We provide that feedback back
to the language model. It gets a chance to say, oh, I've
seen a bunch of recent highs because everybody's moving to South Carolina, or maybe
it says, oh, that is an unusual thing. I get a chance
to digest that and provide it back to the user. So it's it's the
partnering on on one side, the answer rocket being able to really rock your
business and dive in and understand your data, but the language model being able
to make sense and have a conversation about those facts back to the user.
Yeah, it provides the contact, It provides the language to explain what's happening,
and you do have to kind of iterate, and I think in our
next segment we'll get into a bit more detail on how you actually deploy these
things, because you want to deploy a chat, GPT or one of these
other various AI engines to be able to have some controls around that, right,
because this is one issue that you have to watch out for, and
it's just a question of knowing what the tool can do and what the tool
can't do what it's designstering to do. And just very quickly here, I
remember when the New York Times editor was asking it all these esoteric questions and
existential questions and all these things, and it got all this weird stuff back.
That's not how the tool is meant to be used, right, So
this is it's sort of an interesting journey to see what happens. But to
preclude or I'm sorry to conclude that it must have been sentient because they're saying
these things as a pretty significant stretch, right, absolutely, And you could
even take it a step further and say, essentially that journalist was basically writing
a story and the language model was simply helping him finish that story in an
interesting way. Right. It didn't want to marry. I mean, it
had no concept of being married, right, right, But there are a
lot of novels out there where where you know, there's conversations that happen like
that. So absolutely, it's it's um, it's incorrect to personify the language
model. It's more like realizing that actually it's talking about a cultural issue that
the journalists tapped into. Yeah, no, that's exactly right. So you
do need to understand what these tools are good for, what they do,
how they work roughly to to really get the most value from them, and
again trying to trick it into revealing that it's really sent in is probably not
a very good use case, at least not in the business world. If
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That's eight hundred two nine eight fifty seven eighty three. Welcome back to Inside
Analysis. Here's your host, Eric Tavanaugh. All right, folks, back
here on Inside Analysis. At fascinating conversation here with Mike Finley, co founder
and CTO of Answer Rocket. We're getting some great answers about these large language
models and how to fuse them with your traditional business intelligence environment. You know,
always we talk about these things. Don't throw the baby out the bathwater
or no, this is not going to solve all your problems. It gives
you a very powerful context onto and infuse into your traditional business intelligence or analytics
environment. So, Mike, I'd like to ask you just to kind of
walk us through, especially this instance conversation, how you go into maybe as
your some cloud platforms, saying this is what I want, kind of walk
us through how that all happens and what it means. Absolutely. Yeah,
So look exactly what does a GPT or a palm or a barred look like
if you if you walked up to it with the physical thing, what would
it be. It's a bunch of computers. It's a bunch of servers,
right, that's it. Uh, And they have storage and they have whatever.
But it's basically about a bunch of computers. So if you want to
use the same instance of GPT that all the teenagers are using to write their
papers, right, then you go to the open AYE website and go to
chat GBT and you're hitting the same computer that all those other folks are hitting.
Um. And when you do that, it comes with some warnings.
Right, anything you send to it is going to be used by it to
learn how to do things better. That's how it got as good as it
is, right. But if you if you don't want that to happen,
if you want the benefit of all that learning that that thing did, but
you want your data to be kept secret on the way, to be used
only for you, um, for your benefit in the future, and never
revealed to anybody else. Well, then all you need is another copy of
that big server UM. And that's exactly what what Microsoft offers through Azure.
Same same as if you had a database or a compute server. Now they're
offering they're offering instances, private instances of the language models, and uh,
it's as easy as adding one of those resources through an open an Azure account,
create that model added and begin using it. And at that point it's
it's going to it's going to be a transfer of all the knowledge in the
publicly available model that's out there. Latest one, I think is June thirteen
is the last kind of finished to published a GPT three five turbo, and
then it'll be used for your benefit and again it won't be shared with anybody
else, with all of the same credentials and the same assurances that come with
saving your data into an Azure database or using an Azure compute resource to process
your your web server. So it's it's as secure as all the other cloud
services that you're already using. Yeah, and then so once you get that
instantiated, you can start throwing your information at it. Right. I joked
about my friend who just dumped dumps these two hundred page technical briefings into instance
and he gets back a summary. So from a client perspective, would your
clients then start loading their reports into this thing? Would you connect the data
warehouse to it? How does that work? Yeah? Yeah, So once
it's up and running, there's a there's not a way to dump your data
into it. It's still very much like the thing that you see that everybody
uses online, the chat GPT. You you give it a prompt and it
gives you a response. Right. So the key then is to have a
piece of software um that essentially is acting as the front end. That's that's
bridging the semantic gap between the business use and that back end. So let
me give you some examples. Um, if you let's say that your your
your your users are gonna be talking about some obscure part numbers. You know
they're they're gonna they're gonna look like numbers. So if if you just go
to the public GPT instance in reference number six two five nine, five,
eight or whatever. Um, that public instance is going to think that's a
number. It's not going to know anything about it. If if there's a
semantic layer between your business user and the language model, then that layer can
augment that number with something indicating to the language model. By the way,
this is a part number, so that when the language model sees it,
it knows, oh, that's a part number. Now now I know how
to talk about that thing as a part number, not as not as a
number. Right. Um, this happens with zip codes, right, happens
with um you know anything like excuse me, like quantities? Is it a
percent or is it a dollar? Value? In business? That's really important
in the in the largely numbers with suggested formats right in the in the business
world, we need for the language model to treat it very precisely like what
it's intended to be and not sort of run away and imagine a different future
for that number. Makes sense? Yeah, And so what you're doing then
when you talk about this bridge to the semantic layer basically is answer rocketing.
Your instance is going to be the front end, and it's reaching into chat
GPT to generate context around specific discussions and topics and things, supply chain issues,
or whatever the case may be. So basically it's it's now augmenting.
It's part of your information management program, and it is a text generator,
context generator really designed to facilver already doing. Is that right? That's right,
that's right. You can you can very much think of it as it's
like the concierge. Right. So instead of instead of going in and saying,
hey, business user, here is Excel. Please get your answers right,
imagine you had you had a concierge who would say to the business user,
what do you need to know about this spreadsheet? Um? And then
the user would say, I need to know where the you know where the
problem areas are. I'm maybe I'm managing a bunch of franchises and I need
to know today where should I go? Right? So you could you could
do that in a spreadsheet by saying, give me the most recent day,
rank those by the labor ratio or whatever, and that would tell you where
you need to go today. Or you could say to the concierge, please
look this up for me. GPT plays that that that role in answer rocket,
Right, So you've got all your data in the system. The user
is very much in a conversation with GPT, but GPT is getting all the
facts fed into it from from answer Rocket. So if the user says,
hey, who's in trouble, GPT has no idea who's in trouble, but
it knows that that means find me the bottom stores by labor ratio and shrinkage,
right, or whatever those those key parameters are. Because it's AI is
goal driven, so you give it those goals and then answer rocket will find
the way or the products that are ranked a certain way, or whatever the
thing is the users looking for, and then the GPT will communicate that back
to the user. Hey, um, you said five, but really two
will really focus on these two the other three or these three, but they're
much better off, so don't worry about them today. Right, And this
is how the music is made, right. It's it's really a magical experience
because in the past, the user would have just gotten the dump of all
this information. Um, you know, they'd be looking at a bar chart
that they're going to have to interpret. Instead, they can just get some
very straightforward kinds of instructions and conversation and they and they can they can continue
that line of thinking and questioning and drilling down and getting more well, I
guess one question I have is in the typical setup, what is the actual
front end, because like what chet GPT, you're in this environment, you've
got to prompt you throw things at it, etc. Is that still how
you would do it ideally with primarily in the answer rocket environment. And then
the the chat GPT is kind of the background. It is. The chat
GPT is definitely in the background, and the reason for that is because it
needs to be under security um and needs to it needs to have you know,
this user is authenticated for what data they have credentials to access? Right,
So so it's really you know, it's a it is a business intelligence
enterprise tool, right. It comes with all the sophistication of role management security,
you know, row level isolation of that data, um. All those
things are very important even through this chat conversation. So the experience though,
the experience, the actual visual experience the user has is very much like a
chat GPT, augmented with some charts and some other drop downs and click clicky
type things that you would see you know in a in a dashboard or something
like that. But but it feels very much like a chat conversation UM and
that that helps obviously if you're if you're on a you know, if you're
on a desktop. It helps the user to feel like that's a live,
interactive chat. But it also supports all sorts of other paradigms that you might
use, like a like a cell phone based or even embedding this capability in
a third party API so that it can be surfaced inside you know, Microsoft
Teams or some other some other chat a slack, you know, some other
chat type interface. That's interesting, So would it makes sense to feed in
reports like your annual reports, let's say, or your corarely reports. Would
it makes sense to feed that into your instance of chat NPT and then over
time? Because what one thing I've noticed that's really quite interesting is these large
language models, these foundational models will sort of seemingly intuitively understand certain constructs,
even market dynamics and things of this nature. So you know, you could
look at it and say, hey, I have to lay off ten percent
of the people in this company because things do not look a good. Where
should I look to first do that? And it can come back and give
you some rationale for cutting back here cutting back the area can be very specific
in those recommendations. Right, yeah, absolutely so. UM, so the
UM you are correct. But let's talk about the way that you said it.
So you said, can I feed in my annual report to chat GPT.
The short version of that is, UM, you can't feed it in
in the sense of saying, can I make the GPT instance change because I've
given it this report, so it permanently knows that information that that's not a
thing yet. All right, So that's that's something that may be coming in
the future. UM. We hear a lot of things. But what you
can do, you can do. What you can do is say, okay,
now the user has just asked me a question about layoffs. What documents
do I have that um, that talk about layoffs? Um, from the
past. Oh, it looks like I've got this annual report from from five
years ago when we went through a down sort downturn that talks about layoffs.
Now, let me augment what GPT has right now for this question. Let
me augment what it knows by giving it that document, and then it will
answer that question in the context of that annual report that it has from the
past. Right, So, it's this is the discipline of prompt engineering.
You may have heard that term. That's very much about It's very much about
saying, what all do I need to put into that prompt so that the
language model has what it needs to answer, but always keeping in mind I
have to be able to fact check it. I can't I can't leave that.
I can't have the question be completely open ended because it will hallucinate things
above all else, it wants to answer, so it will make up an
answer. If you say, you know how many McDonald's are on the dark
side of the moon, it's going to give you an answer. My favorite,
my favorite test for language models when we're playing around with them is I'll
say Hakuna and the answer always comes back matadha, and it wants to have
a celebration about that. It really wants to fill in a blank. It
will not leave Yeah, it will not leave a blank. So so you
have to be careful when you ask it a question. You're going to get
an answer. If you want that to be based on fact, you have
to number one and ensure that you fed it those facts, and number two
verify that whatever it extracted is still true or holds true. Or is accurate.
You're reminding me of a lesson I learned when we went to Europe as
teenagers, and in certain countries they would tell you don't ask for directions from
the locals because they'll be embarrassed that they can't answer, and so they'll just
give you some answer. And that's kind of like what check If you do
right, they're gonna be hereing what ask they ask it for? Right,
bild to verified and that that gets back to traditional business intelligence data warehousing and
similar practices, because that's where you verify, Okay, is it really true
that we had this many sales and you go check the warehouse and check and
balance. You have to watch out before, right, Yeah, validation and
audits absolutely yeah. And so we we build that into the kind of the
real time aspect of what the language model is processing and is returning back.
And we also put in the guardrails that say, look, don't answer if
you don't have this information and so, and that's in the answer rocket layer.
Is that right? So basically it's it's a layer of instruction. You've
built in some guardrails that say, Okay, no matter what the question is,
if you don't know the answer, don't come up with something. Yeah,
I mean, the language model thinks it's taken the sat you know,
it literally thinks I must answer every question and because it's it's better to take
a guess than not to right. So so you have to be you have
to be careful. It doesn't know. You have to tell it. Hey,
the right answer if you don't know, the right answer is I don't
know. And so these are these are the very subtle. You know,
one of the one of the best engineers I know the other day said,
look, let's stop calling it prompt engineering and let's call it what it is,
rhetoric, right, Like a lot of the instructions, Yeah, a
lot of the instructions to the prompt are really just getting the rhetoric correct,
right, getting the rhetoric that because at the end of the day, it
is a language model. That's what it understands language. And so it'll do
what you tell it. Um, it will generally not do what you don't
tell it. But you have to verify. You have to verify that before
you you a business user to trust it well. And you know, so
let's just kind of talk about rubber meets road with analytics and business right in
the day. I mean, I get all excited about technologies because I'm in
the space and I'm a geek. But at the end of the day,
the whole point of all these exercises is to run your business better, and
a big part of that is the storytelling. Is to get the data and
then explain to the board of directors, your boss, a partner, whoever,
explain to some other party what's happening and why you want to take X,
Y or Z decision. And that's also where it can be very helpful
because you can say, I have to present to the board of directors tonight,
what are the five things I need to be sure to say, and
please be sure to focus on the treasurer who always asks the hardest questions,
and that it will give you a whole bunch of stuff to work with.
You go through that and choose kind of cherry pick what makes sense for you
right absolutely. You know it's funny. I my undergraduate was in physics and
I went into business. And one of the reasons why is because I think
business is the hardest problem there is. And the reason the reason is the
hardest problem there is. It's very straightforward as soon as you know the right
answer, somebody else copies you and runs away with it. Right, That's
that's how competition works. So so you have to get to get it right
again and again and again. Well that's why these language models, basically intelligence
on tap is the ultimate power tool for business. Right And and they're they're
very new now, like literally, you know, six months old. But
imagine if after six months of its existence, it was unreliable, it was
expensive, it was I still remember you know, I was in the cash
register business back then, and a chain of pizzeria's own name, the CTO
said I will put the cash register in the cloud when you put the pizza
oven in the cloud, right, uh, and and so you know that
that kind of fear exists. But now you know, look at Square and
all these other ones that they're very much cloud based and and so that's where
these language models are going. There, they are they're going towards that that
point. Yeah, so yeah, this is this is fast that extel folks
don't touch up. That will be right back. You're listening to Inside Analysis
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seven eighty three Express Welcome back to Inside Analysis. Here's your host, Eric
Kavanaugh. Hard folks, back here on Inside Analysis. They fascinating conference from
Answer Rocket. We're talking all about foundational models, large language models. What
do they mean? How do you use them? Well, there are lots
of different ways, folks, I mean you can you can't even count the
number of ways that you can use these things. But they're very good for,
of course, generating That's what they're supposed to do, is generate text.
There are other models that are used for generating graphics. Mid journey.
I think it's one that's through the discord channel is just shockingly amazing. But
we'll focus on the text. And we just took a quick break there and
the break might get a really good point talking about dark data. So what
is dark data? Well, large enterprises have had massive amounts of data.
Most of it is unstructured. What do they say, ten percent, maybe
fifteen percent is structured, by which we mean sitting in a relational databases,
structured in a way to facilitate reporting and access and so forth. But all
the emails, all the PDFs, all the PowerPoint presentations, there is a
tremendous amount of knowledge based into these things, and people who are old like
me remember something called knowledge management and that was going to solve all our problems
like twenty five years ago, and it really didn't get too far in part
because we didn't have the compute, we didn't have the semantic models. Yet
now we have all that stuff and more. We have these engines and that's
what they are. They are engines that can process information. So what do
you think about the future of dark data in the enterprise and why does that
matter money? Oh? Absolutely, yeah, So look, dark data is
the future, is what I would say. Dark data is becoming the becoming
the light data. The fact is we've thought of is the terminal state for
information, Right Like once a human reads a spreadsheet, draws some conclusions,
writes it out, it goes in a folder somewhere areage. That's all we
ever get to do with it. But now these language models are able to
They're able to read that and make use of it and answer questions from it
if we can find the right information to answer the question. And this is
where the technology area. It's not it's not well understood, but it is
really important. Embeddings and vector databases, right, So, so these these
embeddings and embeddings is just a a sophisticated way of saying what the computer or
what the model thinks about. So it might be it's two o'clock in Tokyo.
That's a statement. The model has an embedding for that. It might
be you know, last quarter sales were down three percent and that's because,
uh, you know, we had a supply chain shortage in Asia. Whatever,
whatever that statement, anything that you can say that you can write a
two hundred page document has an embedding. And that embedding is just a bunch
of numbers, a bunch of numbers that means something to the language model.
So the way that the way that dark data becomes light is you index it
with embeddings, You feed it to the language models UM, and you get
from the language model, you get back kind of an index. Right.
And now anytime a question comes in, a new question comes in, Hey,
um, when if we had supply chain problems in um, you know
India, Right, Well, it's going to go match up against all the
embeddings that it has, and it's going to India in Asia ut supply chain
shortages, transportation problems, it's going to find, you know, anything related
to causing shortages of inventory. Why Because the language model has such a deep
understanding that that it will associate any problem with with UM, apply with supply
chain management, any problem with transportation, with supply chain management, any kind
of outage, it'll it'll group all of that and and it really starts to
show truly the power of what these language models are doing when you look at
how how similar the embeddings for two things are, even though they might be
in different languages, they might be very different ways of saying the same thing,
they might be only tangentially related, but the embeddings will light up.
The embeddings will be similar enough that the language model will will tell you,
hey, this is this is meaningful content to answer that question. That's really
where where the superpowers are. It's almost like the like the Dewey decimal system
where we get you numbers that the library uses. Imagine there's fifteen hundred numbers,
right, that's the index for that content. And if you can take
all of your enterprise documents and index it like that, then you can access
anything you need to access really quickly, get into this embeddings things. That's
very interesting. So what are basically saying is and I have read up on
this that one of the things they do in these large language models is that
they provide a numeric value to every statement that we sent it to paragraph all
sorts of different things. Is that kind of where you're going with this?
And that works? That's right? That that is that is the the the
idea of embeddings. Look until until language models, So like this time this
time last year, right, language models were kind of a cool thing.
Peripherally, we were all focused on machine learning, right and classifiers, right,
and those classifiers they were really good at saying which customers are like other
customers, you know which, But which products should I recommend to Eric based
on the things that Eric already knows? Right? Uh, which are my
stars and which are my you know, lagging solutions? Right? Um,
that's as good as the language models could do. They really not sorry,
not language models. The machine learning models could do. They understood the idea
of what's like and what's not like. The revolution, the giant leap forward
are now able to generalize on that and say, which of these paragraphs are
like each other? Which of these statements are like each other? Um,
you know there's that like I like to when I'm training my engineers about this.
I'll say, look, there's a million different ways that I can tell
you what time it is. I can say it's a quarter to three.
I can say it is two four five right right, right, um,
and a million different ways of saying that, And yet it's really just the
same numbers at the end. That's how the numeration system in the language models
works. It produces these these numeric vectors that match the meaning of the of
the words not not that's itself, that's interesting. So and this is how
they align things, right, finn or a dog? Right? I mean
that classification is good at YEP, but that's a fairly limited thing. And
it's first segmentation, you know, and I think about you know, primarily
done a couple different things. One classify, segments organized basically recommend you with
optimize and optimize on a decision point, which is based on lots of different
factors. But this is a much different environment. I mean, it's it's
predicting text, but it's also giving you all this context right to help you
understand and so you know, I mean, the bottom line is you can
just get about stuff. It just prompt that thing all day long to get
information about how to ramp up. If I just started as a product manager
for the software company, what should I get focused on? You know,
that's right, that's right, yep, yeah. And if you rewind back
to two thousand and nine, is the very first paper from from Jeff Hinton
that described essentially the precursor to all the language models we're using now. In
that paper, you know it was it was a little eight line completed.
It was absolutely fascinating. Um and and all that All that a little eight
line program did was teach itself. That's it. It just at leased on
everything you gave it. It taught itself that specific one taught itself to recognize
handwritten digits like you know, I draw a seven with a dash, and
you don't where I do my ones, you know, kind of crooked,
and you do your ones like a slash. Right, That's all it did.
But but the thing ones and which ones were eights and which ones were
threes. It separated them by itself. And that was the chilling moment that
if it could do that, then all we have to do is get it
to the point where it could separate annual reports from baseball scores. Um and
and you know from you know, the Declaration of Independence from uh, you
know, Google reviews. If it can separate those because it reads them and
knows the difference and starts spacing them out, then all of a sudden,
in order to do that, in order to solve that problem, it turns
out, it has to understand in order to know whether you know, whether
these this list of abs and season d's is a report card or a you
know um uh and and and nfl um you know, seasonal training report uh.
For it to know that difference, it has to understand the principles behind
it. And it was able to teach itself all that, so we didn't
have to train it on those individual parts. We win. That's crazy.
I mean, that really is amazing. So now you're teaching it to you
you've instructed it to learn to teach itself things, and then you're building upon
these. That's why they call it a foundational model, Right, there's foundation
upon which it's learning. What this guy say to me the other day about
how doctors can benefit from these things, because a large language model trained on
medical data can be a very very powerful thing. And today is the dumbest
it will ever be. Gathering podcast segment is coming up next year. Listenings
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