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Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
DUFO Radio. I am your host,

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Alejandro Rojas, and I have with
me the spectacular Jason McClellan or Law Lot

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Lot Law. I was thinking of
making a Jason McClellan theme song somehow,

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may like he's Jason McLellan. Do
do Jason McLellan, McClellan, mclell lell

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Lynn. What do you think?
Well, it's kind of like my My

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initial reaction is I'm opposed to it. Come back to me next week and

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I'll see what you've got. Okay, I'll work on something better. All

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right, Well we have I'll tell
the guys about our guests today, which

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is pretty exciting. We have Reverend
Michael Carter and uh so, he's written

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a book recently called Alien Scriptures,
and he pretty much has to do with

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aliens in the Bible. What he
thinks is, you know stories of course

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others have done this too of the
Bible, and that some of the stories

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in the Bible actually are talking about
extra treasturials. So he thinks some of

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the you know, paranormal things that
happen in there are are due to extra

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treasurials. He's been on ancient Aliens
a few times, and he's actually got

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a degree from the Union Theological Seminary
in New York City, which is a

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pretty big school, a very well
known school. His degree is in divinity

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there. He's also got a degree
in letters from the College of New Rochelle,

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so he is an academic of sorts. And he works now at a

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Universal Universalist church. So he has
a lot of really interesting things to say.

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He's a really neat guy. He's
a lot of fun and so we're

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going to be talking to him about
aliens in the Bible, cool stuff.

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So we'll have him on in a
minute. But before that, Jason,

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why don't we talk about some of
the news from the week. Not that

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there was a whole lot of UFOs
news last week. You're right, buddy,

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it was a slim pickens week for
news, but you know, covered

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what we could from those slim pickens
And so for this week, I think

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I want to talk about an upcoming
movie about something you and I are very

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interested in, in that Skinwalker Ranch. So there's a Skinwalker Ranch movie coming

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out, and we've known about this
that it's been in the works for a

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while, but it was Friday September
thirteenth. Friday the thirteenth, they finally

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released the first teaser clip from the
movie. And in this clip, you

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see it's a found footage film,
so it's presented in a manner that it

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seems to be like it's a real
story and real footage that was recovered from

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like home movies. You see this
family out at Skinwalker Ranch, they live

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there, and then something appears above
the child of the family and he disappears

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and they freak out and all that. So it's, you know, in

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the vein of you, like The
Fourth Kind and Blair Witch Project, you

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know, these found found footage movies
where they're pretending that this is real,

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real footage cover recovered at some point, and they're they're depicting some of the

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wide range of unexplained phenomena that are
reportedly actually happening at Skinwalker Ranch in Utah.

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So this is fascinating, and Skinwalker
is a personal interest of mine because

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I would I'd really like to get
out there and do some investigation and see

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see what it's all about, because
there have been so many stories and we

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personally know people who have been out
there, and I think there's actually something

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mysterious going on. So this movie
looks like it could be kind of fun,

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not not great, but fun.
But I'll reserve my judgment till I

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see it. But it's done by
a production studio in Utah called Deep Studios,

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and they're planning to release the film
just before Halloween on October thirtieth.

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So see what that, Alejandro.
They are doing something weird that you know,

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I personally don't don't care for with
their marketing of this, and it

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seems like they're The only website that
exists for this film is a Facebook page,

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and you know a lot of people
do that, but this Facebook page

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is operated by somebody claiming to be
the I think daughter or some family member

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people who live there and actually had
stuff happen to them. So they're they're

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playing it up like this is a
real movie, and this person is pretending

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to be somebody actually involved and her
father disappeared or something, and she's on

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Twitter all the time telling people that
it's real, and anybody who mentions skin

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Walk a Ranch on Twitter, she
applies to them and says, oh,

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have you seen this footage? And
of course it's the clip from the movie.

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So that's the route they're going with
it, which is kind of annoying.

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But I think what really annoys me
about that is I'm sure it's just

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marketing and to death, but the
problem is it kind of shows a complete

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disregard for the field and for real
research, and it muddies the water.

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And they don't care. I mean, once the movie's done, it's like

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they're gone. You know, they
don't clarify or anything. It's kind of

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like forth kind And there might even
be some people listening to the show or

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like, oh no, that was
totally real. It was so many people

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who, no matter what you say, will believe that that movie is real.

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And the same holds you with Skinwalker, I believe. Yeah, I

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agree with you that that's a big
problem. And you're talking about Skinwalker Ranch.

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This is an incredible story on its
own. It doesn't need any embellishment

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or you know, pretending. I
mean, it's an awesome, intriguing story

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in its own right. So I
don't know why they feel the need to

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go this pretender out, but I
agree with you. I mean, I've

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talked with you know, at least
one of the scientists that was on the

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ranch, and they were genuinely baffled
by what had happened there. Of course,

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we know George Knapt pretty well who
helped write the book. It's one

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of the biggest mysteries. And like
you said, it's by itself extremely interesting

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without any embellishment, the story that
writes itself. I mean, this is

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Hollywood goldmine, I would think.
So it would be fun if it was

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just a documentary, and even if
it was film footage. You know,

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just at least, you know,
don't try to screw people up, because

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this will now screw up. There
on the poster they put out, it

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says Skinwalker Ranch right on the posters
is inspired by true events. So you

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know, they're already seemingly making it
clear that, you know, it's a

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fictitious movie that's based on true events. But then by all the marketing with

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Facebook and Twitter, they're pushing it
as being genuine, you know, an

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actual showing of real But we'll see, we'll see what they do in the

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end. One I gotta say the
scene though, I guess just when I

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saw that scene that they did there, it was kind of cool in that

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I thought it was kind of neat
how they you know, this guy really

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felt like a rancher, like these
were ranchers out there, which is kind

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of cool. So they did a
good job with that, I felt,

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because sometimes you know, the I'm
from Colorado, I'm used to ranch country,

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spent a lot of time in New
Mexico, and I've spent time with

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ranchers and investigating cattle mutilation or just
camping and stuff. And sometimes Hollywood gets

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these ranchers like they're hollywood Ish,
and you know they're not. They don't

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feel like they're real ranchers. So
that was Hollywood ranchers. Yeah, exactly.

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You know, you can tell this
is just the hipster with a cowboy

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hat on, but this guy really
felt kind of like a rancher. So

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the feel of that was kind of
cool. And then just so people know,

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just in case they're not familiar with
Skinwalker, like this scene is mirroring

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a pretty popular event where supposedly these
ranchers their dogs were chasing these little orbs

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of light. They ran off chasing
these orbs of light, and then the

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dogs were never seen again. In
fact, there was a spot where there

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was some weird substance that was found
on the ground where they thought maybe the

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dog this was what was left of
the dogs. But yeah, they did

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so, I mean that's what they're
kind of trying to portray in this scene.

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I think, yeah, And they
could have stuck true to the story

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and used dogs, but you know, they've got the kid, and you

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know, entertainment wise, it looks
like it could be a thrilling and exciting

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movie. We'll see, but yeah, we'll see what happened. But one

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day, my friend, we'll make
our trip out there and see what we

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can find at Skinwalker. Right,
all right, So what story would you

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like to talk about today? In
my friend, Well, we had a

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lot of space and NATA stories,
which is kind of cool, but including

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a professor wrote about search for extraterrestrial
life and he's open to UFOs. But

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the real only UFO story we had, which is an interesting one, is

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this UFO over Belfast, which has
made some news. So this was a

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gentleman in the Cavehill area of just
outside of Belfast, and this is a

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heel I guess that overlooks Belfast and
this person videotaped this thing flying around and

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this person felt that it was a
flying entity that he was seeing. And

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however, a lot of people have
felt that maybe this is a balloon and

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he feels that he's filled other entities
and stuff like that, but I kind

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of feel like, you know,
one of the guys had posted said he

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thought it was a dragon shaped balloon, and k pop Stars is Korean pop

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culture site posted a link to a
dragon shaped balloon and it looks just very

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similar to what is flying around.
Lespiegel wrote about it, and he had,

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of course Mark D'Antonio look at it. That's it just kind of go

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to and Mark D'Antonio for Mouffon said
he thought it looked like a question Mark

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balloon, and they posted a picture
of that, because that's fairly common.

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And I kind of agree with all
of that personally. At least, it

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seems to be not really more shape, it flows very slow, and it

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kind of spinns all the characteristics of
a balloon. So I think it's highly

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probable listing was a balloon or a
sea horse a flying sea horse, Yes,

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and the sky is that well,
I feel the balloon flying seahorse,

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if that is what you feel it
is, is perfectly fair to have.

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I don't think that it's any of
its movements would indicate that it's moving any

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differently than a sea horse was in
the sky. You know, a sea

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horse in the sky. True,
I haven't, But that's a very good

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point because many of us haven't seen
question more balloons or dragon balloons or sea

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horse balloons in the sky. So
understandable why people would look at it and

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say, oh, how that's bizarre, because it is bizarre. We don't

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see that every day. But yeah, I agree with you. I don't

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see anything that would indicate that this
is behaving any differently than a balloon would

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in the sky. And we're seeing
this more and more, like we're saying

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more and more of everything in the
sky because more people have cameras and are

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able to photograph and take video of
these things. They do look strange,

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but I don't see anything that would
point to an flying entity or anything extraterrestrial

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related. Who knows, though,
Yeah, but it is kind of making

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them rounds out there. It's kind
a bit viral, so I wanted to

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tell people about it. If you
want to take a look and see what

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you think. Of course, it's
on open Mind stat te be. So

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there is our short look at the
news for the week. Thank you very

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much, mister McClellan for sharing your
input there. It's been my pleasure as

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always, Alejandro, and hopefully we'll
make it out to Skinwalker and we will

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not be you know what is one
aspect? Sorry I got to add this

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because I was just thinking of mentioning
hopefully we'll be safe when we go out

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there. One aspect that this movie
obviously isn't going with, which I think

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is terribly interesting. And I know
the scientists I had talked to who at

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NIDS felt this was interesting because they
were, of course a little frightened when

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all of the weirdness happened. But
like with the dogs, nothing ever happened

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to humans. It was only animals
that there were some cattle mutilations, there

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were some animals disappearing, some other
weirdness, but no humans were ever heard.

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However, unfortunately animals were those bastards. So that's kind of an interesting

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aspect. So at least for us
when we go out there, we uh,

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we're human, so most likely we'll
be okay, and we'll have a

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no animal policy. Don't don't bring
your dogs. Yeah, good point.

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Yeah, all right, well,
let's go ahead and talk with Reverend Carter.

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I am very excited today to be
speaking with the Reverend Michael Carter,

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Hello Carter. Hello, Hello,
thank you for calling me. Yes,

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I'm really excited to talk to you. And you have this new book out

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called Alien Scriptures. Yes, yes, excited about that, you know,

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I really am, because I added
a couple of chapters to it, and

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one on the Koran and one on
my experiences as a contact EEE. And

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I just feel that it's time that
more and more clergy really need to look

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at this phenomenon and and and uh
and and kind of see where it will

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take as far as what does it
mean to be a church person or a

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person who goes to a temple of
no synagotic et cetera. The clergy really

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need to look at this because it's
not going to go away. Well,

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and for you, you know,
you have a very academic background. Yeah,

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you got a degree from New Rochelle, but Union Theological Cemetery, right,

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and then you got the degree in
divinity from the Union Theological Semetary,

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which is interesting because you know,
there you're actually looking into theology. And

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was it at this point or was
it prior that you had already felt that,

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you know, the Bible had possibly
been referring to extraterrestrials. Well,

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it was it was before then,
because I was having my contact experiences experiences

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before then. And as you and
I were talking before the show, how

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shocked I was when I presented this
as a topic for my master's. They

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I thought they were going to say, are you kidding me? Man?

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But they were very supportive. But
I was already having my contact experiences.

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But I remember a time when I
really I remember someone asking me when I

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was growing up in Baltimore. I
don't know how the topic came up,

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do you believe in UFOs or life
on other planets? And I said no.

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And I distinctly remember them saying why
not? And I said, because

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it's not in the Bible. Imagine
that human evolution is slow. But you

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know, I would bring up things. For instance, there's a wonderful perricope

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of verse in Isaiah chapter forty,
and it says verse twenty two says it

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is he who sits above the circle
of the earth, and its inhabitants are

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like grasshoppers. And I was taught, like many of us were, that

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we thought the earth was flat and
sont Columbus. And here we have someone

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writing three four five thousand years ago, and it is telling us that it

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is he who sits above the seer
and substance translations. But the circle of

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the earth and its inhabitants are like
rashoppers. So where are they getting this

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information? And it got me to
thinking and then people like Buried Downing,

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doctor Barry Downing. He and I
were both in New York yesterday taping the

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show. Mars k Jessup, who
some say died under very mysterious circumstances,

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talked about that the Bible may be
a book of UFO stories. I want

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to just say at the outset that
I'm not trying to take away anybody's face.

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The Bible is, as is the
Quran and the First Testament, which

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we call the Old Testament, very
important pieces of literature, very inspiring,

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much wisdom is there, and it's
been used to keep people of color down

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to the script against women and gay
brothers and sisters, and so the Bible

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can you can use the Bible to
support any perspective that you want. Really,

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but I tried to make sure I'm
not saying that there is no creator.

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I think there is. I think
there's an intelligence and not a man

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or woman or what have you.
I want to say that as you outsay.

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I'm not saying God is an astronaut. But what I am saying,

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and I'm not the first to say
it, is that people, many scholars,

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whatever, they thought these were either
myths or that, you know,

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we shouldn't take them very seriously.
These were just the imaginations of a primitive

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people. And I'm saying, no, no, no, no, we

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must trust our ancestors more than that. And they meant what they said,

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and they said what they meant in
the language of their day, right,

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And so I guess to start off, though, and we'll get more into

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that, certainly, is when did
your contact experiences and begin and how did

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that happen? December twenty eighth,
aighty nine. I went, it's just

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interesting you to bring that up,
talk about synchronicity. I was watching some

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UFO shows this morning on the National
Geographic Channel and they were talking about looking

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for extraterrestrial existence in Chitzanita in Mexico. Well, I went on a vacation

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to Mexico with my first wife.
Well we weren't married then, but we

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went there and I came back and
I remember that night I went out to

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see some friends of mine down on
forty second Street. It was freezing,

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especially coming back from like close to
ninety degrees, and they were drinking and

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you know, having some wine.
But I was just tired. I went

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to a party because someone asked me
to. I showed up. I went

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home and that night we lived on
the upper west side, on the fifteenth

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floor of the Southia Hotel on eighty
first between Central Park, Western Columbus.

240
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And I just woke up in the
middle of the night and my room was

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lit up like forty second Street,
and there was a being on the edge

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of my bed, not sitting there, just looking at me, chalky white,

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pear shaped head wrapped around ray man
eyes, close fitting tunic like a

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jumpsuit, very form fitting. And
I heard this gush of wind, and

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so I was frightened. I did
what I say in the book I did

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with any other red blood and American
person. I pulled the covers up over

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my head and may pretend it wasn't
and I felt this temperature change. This

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I was going outside, and I
forced my eyes back open. Still no,

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not even a near a dog bark, as they say. It was

250
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so quiet. My girlfriend at the
time was in a deep slumber. And

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this is what happened to me,
and this got me on the quest and

252
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I started having these visitations every full
and new mood for about six eight months.

253
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I still sleep with the light on, really do this there? Yes,

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I mean I turn it off if
I wake up in the the but

255
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and I have no one has ever
harmed me. If anything, they have

256
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been friendly to use the word.
But it's just the initial shock of waking

257
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up or getting up and my doors
are locked, my windows are shut,

258
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and there's a being in my room. So that's what started me. I

259
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went to a psychologist, a therapist
because I was fearing for my sanity.

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Doctor Jean Mundy, who has since
made her transition to life after life.

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She hypnotized me Bud Hopkins did late
Bud Hopkins at one time, he did,

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and they just affirmed or confirmed by
that time. By the time I

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went to Bud, I knew that
this was happening, but I was just

264
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trying to get a little deeper into
the experience. And the good news,

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Jeane Mundy said was that you're not
crazy. And the not so good news

266
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and telling me how you look at
it, is that you've been visited and

267
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you will probably continue to be so
That's what started me on this quest.

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I read voraciously, No history of
Star Trek. I'm not a Trekkie.

269
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I don't watch it now. I
don't go to the movies to see it.

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I didn't grow up with that because
I just thought, man, I'm

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just trying to deal with the life
that we have now. So I couldn't

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say that influenced me. And I
had. My last visitation was July fourth

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of this year, with years going
in between. I had a blood clot

274
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in my leg back in March that
almost killed me, and I didn't know

275
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it was a clot. I thought
maybe I'd pulled a muscle. And I

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was taking Kumba in and injecting myself
in this tubbat with a next appair in

277
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this blood center, and on ten
minutes, actually nine forty nine, a

278
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being came in my room here North
Carolina, and it was like they shot

279
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me. It was like an electric
I felt like electricity was going through me

280
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in my back and in my legs. And when I got up the next

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day, the blood cloths were gone, my leg was healed. I went

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to the doctor. They seemed a
little upset. What did you do?

283
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How did this happen? Of course, I didn't tell him what happened,

284
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and I said, aren't you happy. They said, well, well,

285
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we just don't understand this. And
so I took the cuman in for another

286
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week or two, and then I
went to my doctor and he wanted me

287
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to stay on it for six months, which would have been next month.

288
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And I said, look, I
don't need this anymore. I showed it

289
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to my life and my daughter,
who says she's had visits but and it's

290
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just miraculous. I'm a very thin
man, and my legs, my cat

291
00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:52.759
muscles looked like Lebron James. And
believe me, I'm not built like these

292
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athletes are. And the next day
my legs were back to normal. Haven't

293
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had a problem yet. So when
did this initial experience happen? The initial

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what I told you about previously,
was in December nineteen eighty nine. Yes,

295
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and then I was having them.
I had them in clusters. I

296
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had them every full and New moon
for that year. And then there may

297
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have been a year before I would
have a visitation. I had won a

298
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couple of days after nine to eleven. I was living in New York then

299
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and had a visit once I was
up in Boston had a minister's conference,

300
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So yeah, but I guess who
those when they come or when they will

301
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come. I used to miss them, even though I was afraid. But

302
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nothing has ever happened untoward towards me. I have seen reptilians, and I

303
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:55.319
have seen I haven't seen grays.
I've seen the chalk like. I guess

304
00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:57.920
they have the big heads and what
have you. But they weren't gray in

305
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:02.720
color. They were chalk light,
very playful. One of them had a

306
00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:07.079
hoodie on when he came into my
room. This was in the wintertime a

307
00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:12.240
few years ago. But nothing bad
has happened. I knew reiki, I'm

308
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:17.759
a reiki healer, but ever since
I've had these visitations, I don't know

309
00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:22.200
what's coming through my hands, but
it's a pretty powerful energy. Now,

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when you had that initial experience,
did you immediately feel as though this thing

311
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was extraterrestrial or did you feel were
you an't sure what had just happened to

312
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:34.680
you? Well, it was a
little bit of both. What had happened?

313
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Well, I mean this was real. I was not asleep and I

314
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:42.640
saw the being, you know,
it was just looking at me. And

315
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then I pulled the cover up over
my head. I thought my heart was

316
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going to come out of my chest. And I felt the temperature change as

317
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if I was outside. Because this
was December, it was freezing. And

318
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then I forced my eyes open and
I was back in my room. Now

319
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what happened was a friend of mine, uh said to me. She was

320
00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:06.920
very cold. She said, Michael, tell me what you saw. Could

321
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:08.359
you draw it for me? When
I went to visit her, and she

322
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said, I want you to go
down to the East Village to eat Fifth

323
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Street, and there's a mural on
a wall there, and tell me what

324
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you see when you go down there. And when I when I had gone,

325
00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:25.400
I caught the subway and I walked
over and there were pictures of extraterrestrials.

326
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Someone had painted a mural on a
fence there, and it looked like

327
00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:32.799
one of the people that came to
my that were in my room. And

328
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I told her. And I went
to the Strand bookstore and I bought all

329
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:44.359
these books, and you know,
I was embarrassed, and and I went

330
00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:48.759
up to the counter and the guy
said to me, you look like you're

331
00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:49.759
in pretty bad shape. I said, no, no, I'm fine.

332
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:52.440
I felt like I was buying a
condo or something for the first time,

333
00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:56.839
and he said, you know,
he said, what's all this and I

334
00:26:56.920 --> 00:27:00.640
said, just some books. He
said, is this a hobby or is

335
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:03.519
this the real deal? And I
didn't answer him, but first I said

336
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:06.839
I think it's the real deal.
He said, looks like you need a

337
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:10.880
support group. And he turned me
onto the Space group, which is Harold

338
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:17.400
Englin's and Antonio's friends with howld his
group, his UFO support group, And

339
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:21.799
so I went there and they helped
me through a very hard time. Wow.

340
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:29.119
Interesting. And then at some point
it sounds like the experiences turned into

341
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:33.000
communication where you were able to communicate
with these being well they woul show me

342
00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:37.839
pictures. Oh, they were showing
me pictures in my head, and that's

343
00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:42.119
the only way I could. You
know. For instance, when I was

344
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:51.519
in Boston at a minister's conference and
you know, I was paralyzed and I

345
00:27:51.559 --> 00:27:55.119
couldn't force my eyes open, I
wasn't asleep, and it was a picture

346
00:27:55.640 --> 00:28:00.480
of one of the little extraterrestrials and
he was pointing and it had a set

347
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:06.480
of prayer hands with a lightning bolt
in between the heads, and that to

348
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:12.240
me signified we want you to do
prayer or spiritual healing. There was one

349
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:17.279
time in New York where I was
lying home. I usually lie on my

350
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stomach when I was going to sleep, and I felt someone touching my head

351
00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:25.240
and I felt this needle go into
the back of my head in the small

352
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:29.559
part where the what does that,
you know, where your spine goes up

353
00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:33.599
to It's a little indentation there,
and it was I mean, it really

354
00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:40.759
hurt. And in my mind's eye, they showed me a syringe and I

355
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:45.319
remember I was so angry that it
had hurt me, and I remember screaming

356
00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:48.240
at the top of my lungs at
them. I used to keep a golf

357
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club in my bedroom and I had
the golf club. And my wife at

358
00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:56.839
the time said, if you if
I could have taken a picture of you

359
00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:02.519
in your underwear, yelling at the
top of your lungs with a golf club

360
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:06.279
and your head saying stop this,
don't stick me, don't hurt me,

361
00:29:06.680 --> 00:29:11.200
she said, I would have been
priceless. Wow. Yeah, But even

362
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:15.920
though this this incident happened where you
know that this is it was a painful

363
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.240
experience. You feel that all your
experiences with all of these different entities have

364
00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:23.720
been positive overall. Yeah, you
know, I have to say they were.

365
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:27.119
That's why at the beginning, people
like David Jacobs used to get on

366
00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:33.000
my nerves because I appreciate his hypothesis
and the hybrid breeding program and all that,

367
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.799
and that could very well be true. But for me, it's you

368
00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:37.799
know, when people say, well, what do the aliens want? And

369
00:29:38.119 --> 00:29:41.559
which aliens are you talking about?
Which species? It's like saying what do

370
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:45.839
black people want? What do Latino
brothers and sisters? Wok? What do

371
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:48.119
poor apples? You have to talk
to them individually, you know, you

372
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:52.559
got to take things individually. And
it would, it would, it would

373
00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:56.759
really get under my skin when folk
would do that. When Bud had his

374
00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:02.279
support group, but at A I
got a little saaneously. But it was

375
00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:07.359
almost like this division with the support
group I was in. Most of the

376
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:12.599
folks there felt that they had positive
experiences, even though you wake up and

377
00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:15.160
it's like how the hell did you
get it? You know, you go

378
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:18.839
through that kind of thing, and
it was like most of the folk and

379
00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:22.000
Bud group, you know, they
were traumatized. And I can understand.

380
00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:25.400
I mean, you know, o
of them is taking a sperm is taking

381
00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:29.599
so I'm not saying that what happened
to them wasn't true. I wouldn't begin

382
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:33.680
to say that. But what I
will say is that but that was their

383
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:41.000
truth. I've had other experiences.
Richard Boorman's book Positive Experiences with ET Visitors

384
00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:45.480
was a godsend to me because I
was like, Okay, here's somebody who's

385
00:30:45.559 --> 00:30:49.559
talking about the other end of the
spectrum. Of course, John Max's book

386
00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:55.440
a books, you know these,
at least there was another paradigm as opposed

387
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:57.839
to I'm a victim and they've come
to me and they've done this, that

388
00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:02.359
and the other. Again, I'm
not saying that that doesn't happen. I'm

389
00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:06.720
just saying that the ones who visited
me had well, my god, they

390
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:11.920
just healed my legs two months ago. Now. Was this message or they

391
00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:15.319
were giving you? It sounds like
a lot of it was very personal.

392
00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:18.720
Was it? Do you think mainly
kind of an education process for you that

393
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:22.480
they were involved in, or do
you do you think there was a wider

394
00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:26.759
goal that they were also that they
shared with you. I think it is.

395
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:32.000
I think all of even the individuals, a wider goal because it's transformational.

396
00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:36.279
I'm not interested in propulsion systems or
the nuts and bolts, How do

397
00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:40.640
they fly? How do they get
here? Inter dimensional? I'm more concerned

398
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:45.240
too strong a word. I'm more
attracted to and interested in, how do

399
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:48.839
we relate to each other spiritually after
you've had these experiences. Now, when

400
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:52.119
I first started having my experiences,
I was an actor in New York.

401
00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:56.240
I was debating when I wanted to
get out of show business and go into

402
00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:00.200
ministry because I always knew as a
kid, I was going to be a

403
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:02.920
minister of some sort. And but
I was not on my path. I

404
00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:07.480
mean, I was partying after the
shows. I was trying to sleep with

405
00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:09.680
everything that wasn't Mail Dell's. I
mean, I was a wild and crazy

406
00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:14.960
guy. And I think the visitation
helped me. Said, Michael, you

407
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:17.519
know this is not what you signed
up for. Now you can keep doing

408
00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:21.839
what you want, but this is
not what you signed up for. There's

409
00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:24.440
more to it than this. And
so it kind of got me, had

410
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:30.079
gotten me back on where I was
at the beginning of developing an inner life

411
00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:35.759
and how do I exist and coexist? How do I relate to this planet?

412
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:37.920
Uh? You know, those were
the type of things and it got

413
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:44.200
me right back on on that path
into metaphysics and what have you, uh

414
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:47.359
and so, and I think that
what I'm doing now, I mean a

415
00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:52.039
lot of the teachings of new thought
and metaphysics I find and I think doctor

416
00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:59.359
Boylan would maybe agree on some level
that this is not new thought or new

417
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:01.720
age. This is stuff that our
ancestors do, the prophets, the seers

418
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:07.279
that thought create things, that thought
are things, and so and and and

419
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:12.039
that I'm part of a larger No, I'm not just an African American man

420
00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:15.160
with Cherokee blood or English blood.
I'm not just an American. I'm I'm

421
00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:22.359
so much more than that. And
I think that this was the I think

422
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:25.519
this was what they wanted me to
know, that be who you are,

423
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:30.240
you've forgotten who you are. It's
funny that you mentioned it. It's called

424
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:36.559
new age. But of course the
philosophies are all older than they're Yes,

425
00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:39.799
they're all these things. And so
I don't I don't preach it for my

426
00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:45.160
pulpit. I don't even know.
Last I preached two weeks ago, and

427
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:47.440
U and two people came up to
me and said, I just saw you

428
00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:51.759
on the History Channel, and I
was like, oh, okay, I

429
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:54.720
don't preach at UFO theology at all. I'm at the Unitarian Universal Church.

430
00:33:54.920 --> 00:33:59.359
You want to talk about left brain
people. But what I'm trying to do

431
00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:04.200
is I'm trying to insert. I
may bring up some things from a course

432
00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:08.320
of Miracles. I may throw in
some stuff from Neil Walsh's Conversations with God.

433
00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:13.119
Of course, i'll talk about Anderson
Threau, you know. But I'll

434
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:17.199
try to throw in some metaphysical material. And I'm surprised, pleasantly so that

435
00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:22.880
some people already know these things.
And so there's a there's like a spirit

436
00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:27.039
moving across the old way of doing
things, whether it's us in Syria or

437
00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:30.559
the way we deal with the planet. They don't work anymore. And so

438
00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:34.639
we've got to find new ways to
be with one another. We fight too

439
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:37.280
much, we argue too much,
we go to war too quickly. We've

440
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:40.920
got to find different ways to be
together. So we're gonna kill each other.

441
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:47.199
So then, at probably I would
imagine it was around this time when

442
00:34:47.239 --> 00:34:52.400
you started to see the Bible a
little differently. Yes, and still I

443
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:55.679
see it differently in many many ways. As I stated at the outset,

444
00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:00.800
I think it's a wonderful book.
I think all the of atheistic religions or

445
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:06.039
people of the book, as they
say, the Koran beautiful, the First

446
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:09.960
Testament we call Old Testament, Second
Testament, New Testament fantastic. But I

447
00:35:10.039 --> 00:35:14.920
mean in any cosmology, the Native
Americans talk about the Star people. We

448
00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:20.679
have our Hindu brothers and sisters talking
about the Mahabarata and the Vimanas and what

449
00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:27.519
have you. They always talk about
there's always a story about knowledge and wisdom

450
00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:34.719
coming down from above. And when
I started looking at some of these stories

451
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:37.599
of Moses and the parting of the
Red Sea, of the Star of Bethlehem,

452
00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:45.159
of some of the ugliest stories talking
about on yesterday on the show Ancient

453
00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:50.079
Aliens, we were talking about the
arc of the Covenant and some of the

454
00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:54.400
things that happened. Yahweh giving people
hemorrhoids in the King James version they call

455
00:35:54.480 --> 00:36:00.519
them boyles, but Yahweh gave the
Philistine hemorrhoids where they stole the ark of

456
00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:04.599
the Covenant. That doesn't sound like
something a loving God would do. That

457
00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:08.880
sounds so very humid. If you
will and h and uh, you know,

458
00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:13.800
it sounds like Yahweh has a lot
of issues, but he's not a

459
00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:19.079
God's technologically, h he probably appeared
as won, but he's got his anger

460
00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:21.920
issues and what have you, and
he could all be wrong. This could

461
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:24.159
all I could be wrong about this. I just don't think I am m

462
00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:28.960
well. And you keep making the
point too, And I think it's worth

463
00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:34.159
pointing out that you are involved with
the Unitarian Universalist Congregation in New York,

464
00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:39.800
and that church or that group is
all inclusive. It honors all the different

465
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:44.159
religions. They really do, they
really do, and they're not perfect,

466
00:36:44.199 --> 00:36:46.400
but no religious system is. But
you know, we can, you know,

467
00:36:46.519 --> 00:36:50.840
we we can explore. We can
say I don't believe that, or

468
00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:52.880
I doubt that without someone saying,
well, i'll pray for you, or

469
00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:57.199
you don't have faith. We don't
those we have other issues, but those

470
00:36:57.239 --> 00:37:00.760
are not the issues that we have
right and I want to get into.

471
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:04.519
So then you've decided to go get
a degree in divinity at that oh yeah,

472
00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:09.239
Union Theological Seminary, which is a
very prestigious school in New York.

473
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:14.480
Yeah. Did you find it as
was it your goal? Were you kind

474
00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:20.559
of like, I need to bring
this idea to these academics and theology.

475
00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:27.360
You know, I was afraid to
it first because It wasn't a driving force

476
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:31.159
because I just wanted to get my
education and get out of there because I

477
00:37:31.239 --> 00:37:35.320
went. You know, I was
forty four years old when I got my

478
00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:38.199
master's. I didn't go to these
union until I was like forty one.

479
00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:43.920
It was a three year program.
And but when when people were writing,

480
00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:46.800
you know, when they were talking
about what they wanted to write about as

481
00:37:46.840 --> 00:37:52.800
a master's thesis, it just didn't
appeal appeal to me. But I've said,

482
00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:57.360
look, I'm having these experiences.
I wasn't't telling anyone about these experiences

483
00:37:57.400 --> 00:38:00.840
at all. I didn't come up
with my experiences until this book was written.

484
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:05.199
But I was doing UFO conferences,
you know, I was in the

485
00:38:05.239 --> 00:38:07.199
closet about it, and I just
said, let's give it a whirl.

486
00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:15.079
And my Delores Williams, who is
not only a brilliant academic but well known

487
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:20.119
in seminary circles. She was my
systematic theology teacher, and she said,

488
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:23.920
why don't you stay on and do
a PhD. She was so enthusiastic about

489
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:27.599
what I was writing, But I
didn't want to be fifty five years old

490
00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:36.159
still paying back stead. You know, James Cohn and Systematics was also talking

491
00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:39.239
about we'll stay on and do a
PhD. And I appreciated it. It

492
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:44.599
made me feel because there were some
brilliant people there, students as well as

493
00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:46.760
professors. But I didn't want to
do that. I wanted to have an

494
00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:53.119
active ministry, and so I wrote
it. It was really well received.

495
00:38:55.559 --> 00:39:00.159
Barry Downing, who's a good colleague
of mine, a mentor, he was

496
00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:04.400
taping the show yesterday with me,
and you know he wrote a book UFO

497
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:09.159
in the Bible way back in nineteen
sixty eight. I mentioned doctor Jessup.

498
00:39:10.119 --> 00:39:15.480
So these were pioneers. I bring
a different slant because I'm a man of

499
00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:21.440
color, but I'm also a contactee. And so that was the other thing.

500
00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:24.320
When I heard David Jacobs and other
folks talk. They were talking from

501
00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:28.920
an academic point of view. Don't
want to pick on brother Jacobs, but

502
00:39:29.159 --> 00:39:32.000
he comes to mind so readily.
But I'm like, okay, but I

503
00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:37.960
have a different slant. I have
a different point of departure as being a

504
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:40.480
man of color living in America.
I don't you know, I go to

505
00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:44.519
conferences once in a while. I
used to, and I wouldn't see many

506
00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:50.599
people who look like me. And
I began to wonder the et brothers and

507
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:53.039
sisters do they not visit people of
color? What's the point? Why me

508
00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:57.760
better than that, because I have
been visiting, and I worn in the

509
00:39:57.800 --> 00:40:02.159
book about intergalactic racism. It maybe
not be done so consciously. But the

510
00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:07.239
Grays, they're dark, they're short, they're the ones that are they're a

511
00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:12.320
bad ets. The Swedes, the
Nordics, brothers and sisters who you know,

512
00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:15.079
most of Europeans see though, I
mean, yes, they come here,

513
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:17.320
but brothers and sisters, I know
in Europe they say, well,

514
00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:20.559
we don't see a lot of grays. But well, you know, I've

515
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:22.119
been visited by the Nordics, the
Sweds, and people say, well,

516
00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:27.239
they're the good ones. They're the
blonde, blue eyed, Palladian, you

517
00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:31.199
know. But if you're dark and
short and bald, and I'm being flipped

518
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:35.760
in some ways, but they're the
bad ones. And we categorize, so

519
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:38.039
these are good and these are bad. And I want us to be careful

520
00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:42.199
of that, yeah, because that's
the same thing we do with one another.

521
00:40:42.920 --> 00:40:45.280
Right. Well, And I found
this interesting because you have you've got

522
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:50.119
three chapters. A book is essentially
broken into three parts, and the third

523
00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:54.039
chapter is called religious conservative and liberal
perspectives. And it was interesting because in

524
00:40:54.119 --> 00:41:00.760
there you kind of tackle the conservative
groups kind of do like what you're talking

525
00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:04.000
about segregating. Know, they're they're
bad and that it. Oh they come

526
00:41:04.039 --> 00:41:07.079
from Slaton and they're the fallen angels, yes, and that's just. And

527
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:10.239
yes, there are some that you
don't want to meet in the dark alley.

528
00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:14.880
I mean, some of these folks
you know, you know they they

529
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:16.039
I mean, you don't you know, you don't want to play with certain

530
00:41:16.119 --> 00:41:21.400
things. But let's always look at
because there's three fives to every story,

531
00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:25.320
yours, mine and the truth.
And so the liberal position has been,

532
00:41:25.400 --> 00:41:29.719
well, these are all allegorical stories. You know, we can we can,

533
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:34.599
we can, we can sift out
meetings and you can nothing. You

534
00:41:34.639 --> 00:41:37.400
can do all of that, and
then the other party is well. And

535
00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:42.440
I remember when some conservative folks would
say they didn't exist. Now they exist,

536
00:41:42.559 --> 00:41:45.159
but they're evil. And like the
Buddha says, you take the middle

537
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:49.239
path. The truth is always in
the middle. And so that's that at

538
00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:53.880
least that's been my experience for fifty
six summers on the planet. And what's

539
00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:58.000
interesting, and I wonder, because
you've been doing this for a while,

540
00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:05.440
and you've been paying attention to the
philosophies and the viewpoint of different groups.

541
00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:13.840
It seems as though it's grown as
far as people believing are sharing their belief

542
00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:16.920
in this phenomena. But like you
said, both ends are growing, the

543
00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:22.000
conservative and the liberal ends, and
that's okay because that life can be polarity.

544
00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:25.400
But yeah, it shows like ancient
aliens, this is their sixth season.

545
00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:29.239
Of course, you have fallen skies
where they're ugly and it looks like

546
00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:31.199
bugs and da da da. You're
always going to have that. And then

547
00:42:31.239 --> 00:42:37.000
there are probably reasons for that too, political and society and what have you.

548
00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:42.199
But the mere fact that I can
talk to you about this, it

549
00:42:42.320 --> 00:42:47.719
shows that that that human evolution is
changing. And so it's slow, it's

550
00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:53.719
painful, it's annoying. But most
people believe that there is life on other

551
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:58.599
planets, and they know that our
government is lying to us because they say,

552
00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:01.719
no, there's not life on other
place, and we have tons and

553
00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:06.960
tons of classified information to prove it
to you. And so it's like,

554
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:09.599
come on, man, come on, and one day there's just going to

555
00:43:09.639 --> 00:43:14.159
be a siding that that won't be
explained away. It's not going to be

556
00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:15.480
a weather but well, we've already
seen that. They'll have it. We

557
00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:19.960
but one day there's just going to
be a siding, or we're going to

558
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:23.719
see one of these extra correctional brothers
and sisters, and you know, it's

559
00:43:23.800 --> 00:43:28.840
just the cats out of the bag. I say, why wait, I

560
00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:31.719
say, let's get our religious leaders
talking about it. And I understand.

561
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:35.360
I think while the government doesn't want
to talk about it, because then they're

562
00:43:35.360 --> 00:43:39.280
going to have to say why we
lie for fifty years or more? You

563
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:45.559
know, why did some people wind
up missing? Okay, why did Eisenhower,

564
00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:51.239
if that story is true, turned
down free energy and spiritual awareness for

565
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:53.960
technology. I mean, we'll have
to answer those things. But nothing changes

566
00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:58.679
until you call it what it is, and you don't put old wine in

567
00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:01.039
new wine skins. Well, and
along these lines, you know, what

568
00:44:01.239 --> 00:44:07.000
is your perspective when you see like
the Vatican holding an astrobiological convention like they

569
00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:15.119
did, you know, I you
know, it's it's it's encouraging, it's

570
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:20.880
you know what we're to lie about
that. It's also you know, you

571
00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:23.199
also want to say, well what
was still what's not being told? But

572
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:29.239
but like I said, human evolution
is slow. So I celebrate and maybe

573
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:30.880
some people say, well, Michael, that's low hanging fruit. I celebrate

574
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:34.960
the mere fact that they have it
and they have come out it. And

575
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:37.679
the Malagucci, uh, I think, I don't know whether he's going on

576
00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:40.920
either, but he came up yes, and and you know, he said,

577
00:44:42.119 --> 00:44:46.480
it's extrapresial life. Evatican has known
about this for for several decades.

578
00:44:46.679 --> 00:44:51.960
Of course we know about it,
so and and and I try to be

579
00:44:52.039 --> 00:44:57.559
empathetic in the sense of, you
know, maybe they think people will panic.

580
00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:01.119
Of course, you know, if
we can get free energy and things

581
00:45:01.239 --> 00:45:06.920
like that, then oil companies,
the whole, this whole system would collapse.

582
00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:10.800
But maybe it needs to economically,
who knows. But I'm just happy

583
00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:15.599
that I can say that I live
in a time where this is this is

584
00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:20.239
happening. And and you know,
like I said, fifteen twenty years ago,

585
00:45:20.599 --> 00:45:24.559
I wouldn't have mentioned to you that
I've had these experiences. And I

586
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:27.960
stuck, I said, I don't
preach it for my pulpit, but I

587
00:45:28.039 --> 00:45:30.719
mean, it's so acceptable now.
I don't have to worry about Oh,

588
00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:35.360
the guys are not. I mean
they may say that, but you know,

589
00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:42.119
you know what I mean so it
sounds like I mean, from your

590
00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:49.599
book and from what you're talking about
this transformational and evolutionary process, that you

591
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:52.519
would feel that you know, these
extra treastuals have been involved with this process

592
00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:58.840
we've been going through for thousands of
years and continue to be a part of

593
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:02.480
that, you know what. I
believe it with all my heart, and

594
00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:07.719
I want to say this, and
these experiences have taught me to love more

595
00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:12.320
deeply. I'm not saying that you
have to meet an et before you can

596
00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:17.840
learn to love, but I mean
to really go into the depths of what

597
00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:22.519
it means to be at least human
that I put that in quotes, and

598
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:27.800
and for me to appreciate the planet
and to live this, to live it

599
00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:31.639
and even and not just to live
it outside with who I encounter, but

600
00:46:31.760 --> 00:46:37.800
even in my personal relationships, I'm
much more forgiven. No therapy and other

601
00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:43.079
things I've helped with that too,
but I'm much more. I'm a different

602
00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:46.800
person, and and I'm not so
much a different person in the sense that

603
00:46:47.320 --> 00:46:54.280
no one recognizes me, but what
was in me I'm bringing forth. And

604
00:46:54.480 --> 00:46:59.440
do I make mistakes, of course, I make hatous mistakes that I've learned

605
00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:04.039
to forgive my self. I'm less, less judgmental about myself as well as

606
00:47:04.119 --> 00:47:08.920
other people. I'm more willing to
uh say I'm sorry or I'm wrong.

607
00:47:09.639 --> 00:47:15.199
Uh, more more able to be
vulnerable. And I'm not saying all of

608
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:21.199
it is from these visits, but
it's the catalyst. Uh. I'm less

609
00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:27.280
fearful, I'm more patient of others
than myself. And I do my own

610
00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:30.079
spiritual practices. You know, I
do yoga, I swim, I meditate

611
00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:34.119
regularly. You know, I do
a lot of things. So it's not

612
00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:40.280
by osmosis, but all these things
have gone into making me the person who

613
00:47:40.360 --> 00:47:45.360
I am, which is, like
I said, beyond category. And people

614
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:47.960
used to say that about Duke Ellington. His music is beyond category. But

615
00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:55.079
yeah, beyond category because I'm much
more powerful than I'm really I'm more responsible.

616
00:47:57.039 --> 00:48:00.079
I'm not the victim. I know
that I do create my own reality

617
00:48:02.039 --> 00:48:05.559
and when I when I when,
and when I deviate from that, I

618
00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:09.400
know that's just my ego not wanting
to take responsibility. Look what's happening to

619
00:48:09.519 --> 00:48:14.559
me. You made me do that. Look how you're making me feel.

620
00:48:15.079 --> 00:48:20.800
No one can do that to me
but me. So you've had your own

621
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:24.360
transformation and evolution. Do you feel
then, over these years, by you

622
00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:29.480
know, writing your book about you
Know, which spanned one hundreds thousands,

623
00:48:29.679 --> 00:48:35.360
thousands of years, that humanity has
also involved and is there an end to

624
00:48:35.480 --> 00:48:37.840
evolving? Or do can you just
continue to evolve forever? No? I

625
00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:43.920
think what I was just finishing up
another one of THEO. Walsh's books on

626
00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:49.360
conversations with God, and no,
you're evolving even when you leave this plane,

627
00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:52.519
even when you go into life after
life, you're evolving to go back

628
00:48:52.599 --> 00:48:57.519
to the source and then you keep
evolving. It's it's the circle. It's

629
00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:01.360
the circle of life. And so
you all and the only decision is if

630
00:49:01.400 --> 00:49:06.760
you want to grow kicking by kicking
and screaming, or do you want to

631
00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:08.920
go along with it? But either
way you're going to grow. And so

632
00:49:09.119 --> 00:49:15.519
it becomes how do I want to
do this? Uh? You know,

633
00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:22.760
because you know, there is the
old thing that aging is a fact,

634
00:49:22.119 --> 00:49:29.480
maturing is optional. And I've just
decided that I'm going to keep on keeping

635
00:49:29.559 --> 00:49:35.119
on and and when it's time to
leave here and go onto the next plane

636
00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:38.880
of existence, that will be it. But I'm still growing and evolving,

637
00:49:39.639 --> 00:49:45.079
and that's the cycle of the soul
and and and you know this is that

638
00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:49.920
news. Physics is telling us this
now, Uh, they're just catching on.

639
00:49:50.440 --> 00:49:53.599
But our se years and sages have
been telling us this for millennia.

640
00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:57.760
And of course, you know,
we get these avatars and what have you

641
00:49:57.800 --> 00:50:00.599
who come here from wherever they come
from them to try to remind us of

642
00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:04.840
who we are. And of course
we kill them or nail them the pieces

643
00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:07.800
of wood or pizza, you know
what out of them. But they come

644
00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:14.280
anyway, they keep coming, they
keep loving us to death, and eventually

645
00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:19.199
we'll get it. Mm hmm.
So and I think this gets into a

646
00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:24.159
little bit of where some people struggle
is that I think some people don't want

647
00:50:24.199 --> 00:50:32.599
to feel that they're angels or saviors
or gods are not divine and that extra

648
00:50:32.679 --> 00:50:38.119
trustural does an equal divinity. So
where is that line between the divinity for

649
00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:42.480
you? Do you feel that,
you know, all of these stories come

650
00:50:42.519 --> 00:50:49.559
from our extraterrestrial and nature or is
there some that is divine and beyond and

651
00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:54.559
some that is extraterrestural. Well,
I think it's both ends. I tend

652
00:50:54.639 --> 00:50:59.079
to think that because people, I
mean, some of these beings can shake,

653
00:50:59.159 --> 00:51:01.039
shift or whatever, they can come
to you and every whatever form you

654
00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:05.480
need in order for you to for
them, you to be heard for them.

655
00:51:05.559 --> 00:51:09.280
He says, you can hear them. I think that listen. Even

656
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:14.920
if I didn't have these experiences,
there's an intelligence to the universe. There

657
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:19.000
is a law, and if I
jump out of this third floor window here

658
00:51:19.079 --> 00:51:23.480
off my balcony, I'm gonna go
splat. But there's also other universal laws

659
00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:29.239
that you do read what you sew, that what goes around does come around.

660
00:51:29.400 --> 00:51:34.320
This is regardless of extraterrestrial visitation or
not. And a lot of the

661
00:51:34.440 --> 00:51:37.039
things that we say are impossible,
it's because maybe they're laws that we don't

662
00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:45.000
know about. So for me,
it's just one great mystery. And I'm

663
00:51:45.079 --> 00:51:49.880
learning to embrace the mystery. And
you know who was it was a careerguard

664
00:51:50.199 --> 00:51:53.159
who said, too day said life
is lived forward, but it's understood backwards.

665
00:51:53.679 --> 00:51:57.719
But he also said life is not
a problem to be solved, it's

666
00:51:57.800 --> 00:52:01.199
a mystery to be lived and know. Once we can live in mystery,

667
00:52:01.719 --> 00:52:06.280
once we can say there's some things
I don't know, there's some things I'll

668
00:52:06.320 --> 00:52:10.159
never know, and that can be
okay. Then I'm in the moment.

669
00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:15.360
I'm not in my head, I'm
in my heart, I'm in the moment.

670
00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:20.480
But to get caught up and trying
to understand everything. And I'm not

671
00:52:20.519 --> 00:52:24.480
saying don't be curious, but there's
some things you won't understand. And it's

672
00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:29.679
okay not to know. But the
human ego, the human ego wants to

673
00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:34.280
know all because there's a security and
not being wrong. The human ego wants

674
00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:37.039
to be right. Well, it's
taking me fifty six ommers to just get

675
00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:39.840
it. Michael, do you want
to be right or do you want to

676
00:52:39.880 --> 00:52:44.599
be a piece right? It's interesting
you say that. I just heard an

677
00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:49.880
interview yesterday from a lady who wrote
a book called I Don't Know, and

678
00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:54.519
it's about this exact topic. It's
about the psychology behind people struggling with the

679
00:52:54.639 --> 00:52:58.039
idea of they don't want to say
I don't know. You know, it's

680
00:52:58.079 --> 00:53:00.440
hard for them. They have to
come up with an answer if it's not

681
00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:04.360
accurate, right, it's scary,
it's scary. Uh. And part of

682
00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:07.000
that is growing up too. I
mean, I know a guy who told

683
00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:10.840
me that his father would rather said
he'd rather hurt himself than to be right,

684
00:53:12.079 --> 00:53:15.400
going to be wrong, never admit, And that's playing God. That's

685
00:53:15.440 --> 00:53:19.119
hubers Uh. You know, of
course you can do. That's part of

686
00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:22.199
being in the body uh on planet
Earth. That you're going to be wrong

687
00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:25.519
that if I'm looking forward, I'm
not going to see what's behind me.

688
00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:29.559
That's just part of the game.
Plant. I don't know, I don't

689
00:53:29.599 --> 00:53:32.599
know where if that's the way on
other dimensions or other planets, but on

690
00:53:32.679 --> 00:53:38.079
this planet that's that's the way it's
working now. And it sounds like too

691
00:53:38.199 --> 00:53:44.000
when you're talking about the evolution and
these these laws. In that case,

692
00:53:44.199 --> 00:53:49.599
if the manifestation, like you said, they whatever comes to teach you these

693
00:53:49.719 --> 00:53:52.800
laws, it kind of means that
everything to piece of divinity, everything is

694
00:53:53.519 --> 00:54:00.639
divine. That's what the Buddhers say. The genistation are more along those lines,

695
00:54:01.159 --> 00:54:07.320
yes, yeah, yeah, And
the more contemplative, contemplative monks and

696
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:14.800
Christianity can probably express it in a
similar fashion. But you know, it's

697
00:54:14.920 --> 00:54:17.519
it's it's the power of now and
what I had, Like I'm talking to

698
00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:21.599
you, I've been talking to you
for about forty five minutes. I'm not

699
00:54:21.719 --> 00:54:23.639
thinking about what I'm going to do
when we hang up. I'm not thinking

700
00:54:23.679 --> 00:54:28.480
about what I did before you called. I'm in the moment with you now,

701
00:54:28.760 --> 00:54:34.559
because that's all I really have,
and mine now will shape my future.

702
00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:37.559
I can't change the past, and
I don't the future hasn't gotten here

703
00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:42.320
yet. But if I'm in the
present now, that will help shape my

704
00:54:42.440 --> 00:54:47.960
future and that's all we have.
I guess would you then argue which that

705
00:54:49.599 --> 00:54:53.599
regardless of where the message comes from, like for instance, when you're looking

706
00:54:53.639 --> 00:54:57.320
at this and you're seeing the similarity, Like for instance, you have this

707
00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:01.840
beautiful image which I'm sure many of
our listeners have seen. This is painting

708
00:55:01.880 --> 00:55:07.840
from fourteen eighty six called the Annunciation
with Saint the Idiots, where there's a

709
00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:15.800
disc shape with a beaming coming hands
that these demonstrator or are similar to stories

710
00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:21.400
we hear these days that are attributed
to Extra Treastral. But the message is

711
00:55:21.440 --> 00:55:24.480
still the same regardless. The message
is that we've come here to grow and

712
00:55:24.559 --> 00:55:30.119
to love. That's it. Reptilian
Palladian praying man to. Doesn't matter who's

713
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:34.360
bringing it to you. They may
rock your world with the way they look,

714
00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:37.119
but you got to go beyond appearances. And the thing is is that

715
00:55:37.599 --> 00:55:43.960
I believe, Michael, I have
to own this for me. Everybody has

716
00:55:43.960 --> 00:55:49.039
their own path that we are here
to love in all its many manifestations.

717
00:55:49.280 --> 00:55:52.159
And the teacher may not be with
the long hair or the dreadlocks that I

718
00:55:52.280 --> 00:55:57.320
used to have. And then may
they may not come with the long robe.

719
00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:00.360
They may be the person who flips
you the bird and cuts you off

720
00:56:00.440 --> 00:56:05.039
in traffic. It may be the
person in line with you at the bank.

721
00:56:05.280 --> 00:56:08.000
They may be your greatest teacher at
least for that day, in that

722
00:56:08.199 --> 00:56:13.599
moment. And so we may be
looking for the eureka or they call it

723
00:56:13.679 --> 00:56:17.320
the aha moment, looking for the
universe to send us the message in a

724
00:56:17.360 --> 00:56:21.960
blue box, but it's coming behind
you in a red box. But we're

725
00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:24.800
so wedded to what's in the blue
box that we miss it all together.

726
00:56:25.119 --> 00:56:30.079
M hm, you know. And
that's what I don't want people to do.

727
00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:35.519
That's what I don't want to do. Yeah, in your perspective,

728
00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:38.400
Then, with all of this kind
of interaction that may have been happening with

729
00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:44.599
these with extra trestrals, do you
think that we'll get to a moment or

730
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:49.239
we're getting closer to a moment where
it will be it won't be a secretive,

731
00:56:49.280 --> 00:56:51.679
it'll be above for it, It'll
be face to face. Yeah,

732
00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:54.559
yeah, yeah, yeah, doctor
King said. Well, doctor King quoted

733
00:56:54.639 --> 00:57:00.519
Victor Hugo. No lie lives forever. No Lie lives forever. And yeah,

734
00:57:00.559 --> 00:57:04.119
it's only a matter of time.
Now does that mean I'll live to

735
00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:07.000
see it. I'd like to.
I could go out here to today and

736
00:57:07.079 --> 00:57:08.559
get hit by a car what have
you. But yeah, yeah, it's

737
00:57:08.599 --> 00:57:12.880
going to happen. And so would
argue that it already has happened. I

738
00:57:12.960 --> 00:57:19.559
mean, I have videotape here of
someone in Mexico taking pictures of flying sauces

739
00:57:20.239 --> 00:57:23.639
in twenty in the year two thousand, and it's interesting. There's more proof

740
00:57:24.119 --> 00:57:29.480
that flying sauces exist than there are
that Jesus existed. And I do believe

741
00:57:29.480 --> 00:57:32.559
they existed. But we have camp
quarter to tape, we have tastes of

742
00:57:32.599 --> 00:57:37.800
this, but people will still say
no, no, no, that's something

743
00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:42.639
else. Yeah, interesting, because
that wasn't. Monsignor Balducci's main argument was

744
00:57:42.679 --> 00:57:46.320
that, you know, the belief
in Jesus in the Bibles, these are

745
00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:52.199
anecdotal stories. It's mostly anecdotal,
and so is a lot of the UFO

746
00:57:52.280 --> 00:57:55.639
phenomenon. And if I'm going to
believe the anecdotes of these people, I've

747
00:57:55.719 --> 00:58:00.840
got to be open to the stories
of others as well, especially when I

748
00:58:00.880 --> 00:58:04.880
can see it. You know what's
you You can believe me or you don't

749
00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:07.559
believe your long eyes, right,
honey, if I've seen it, and

750
00:58:07.880 --> 00:58:13.559
I know what I've seen, and
so uh, you know, I have

751
00:58:13.719 --> 00:58:15.960
to follow that. I have to
follow that. But you know what,

752
00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:22.039
what it comes down to is this
Alhanso. It doesn't matter. I'll know

753
00:58:22.239 --> 00:58:29.159
what you believe by how you treat
me. You can go to Bible study

754
00:58:29.239 --> 00:58:32.719
every Wednesday night. You can go
to the temple on Friday tomorrow shavas,

755
00:58:34.159 --> 00:58:37.039
you can go to the mosque and
say Friday night. You can do all

756
00:58:37.119 --> 00:58:42.199
of that, but I don't know
what you believe by the way you treat

757
00:58:42.280 --> 00:58:47.239
me. That'll be the biggest,
the greatest sermon that I will ever get

758
00:58:47.679 --> 00:58:52.679
or ever give. Right. Well, see, and I think that works

759
00:58:52.800 --> 00:58:57.519
kind of. It's very important because
I, like you said, the message

760
00:58:57.599 --> 00:59:00.039
is what's important when it comes down
to it. However, you accept that

761
00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:04.880
message, yes, And you don't
have to believe in UFOs. You don't

762
00:59:05.239 --> 00:59:09.159
just be a loving person. Just
look inside and look at your rough edges

763
00:59:09.400 --> 00:59:13.400
and what can you learn? What
do you need to look at where are

764
00:59:13.480 --> 00:59:17.039
you not conscious? That's all this
is about, really it is. I

765
00:59:17.079 --> 00:59:21.280
mean, that's what these books were
purported to tell us. You have some

766
00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:23.760
human beings welcome. And they were
flawed and they wrote from their own political,

767
00:59:23.840 --> 00:59:30.039
social, and cultural perspective. But
those stories have meaning and you can

768
00:59:30.119 --> 00:59:35.679
look and glean the meaning and they're
a wealth of wisdom of how to live

769
00:59:35.719 --> 00:59:42.360
your life. Now those are eternal
truths. Well, I guess my final

770
00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:44.840
question, because we're running out of
time, we'll get you. I don't

771
00:59:44.840 --> 00:59:46.159
want to tell people where they can
get the book the exactly. Yeah,

772
00:59:46.159 --> 00:59:50.000
we want to get back into the
book because the book is great. You

773
00:59:50.079 --> 00:59:55.280
know, it talks about you know, UFOs in the historical context. You

774
00:59:55.400 --> 01:00:00.159
also go into the UFOs in antiquity, which people are really interested. And

775
01:00:00.840 --> 01:00:05.639
then we talked actually more about the
third part, which is the conservative and

776
01:00:05.719 --> 01:00:09.280
liberal perspectives. But what are some
other parts of the book that you are

777
01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:13.159
are proud of that people really like
that you would like people to know that.

778
01:00:13.719 --> 01:00:19.800
I'd like them to look at the
the section on the Qur'an because you

779
01:00:19.880 --> 01:00:22.639
know, you can't have first of
all, you can't have judaism, you

780
01:00:22.920 --> 01:00:28.840
can't have Christianity without Judaism, uh, you know, and the Moses Moses,

781
01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:31.159
the Moses story with the pill of
cloud by day, pill of pier

782
01:00:31.199 --> 01:00:35.599
by. Note that's there is no
Jewish religion until the Exodus, so it

783
01:00:35.679 --> 01:00:39.480
is a Ufo involved in that.
And of course you can't have his song

784
01:00:39.599 --> 01:00:45.519
without Christianity and Judaism, mostly Judaism, And so I want people to look

785
01:00:45.559 --> 01:00:50.320
at that and to familiarize yourself with
some of the passages in the Quran beautiful

786
01:00:50.360 --> 01:00:54.880
books. And I would also like
you to look at the lessons I've learned

787
01:00:57.039 --> 01:01:04.199
as a contactee, lessons that I
have learned earned and you know, perhaps

788
01:01:04.280 --> 01:01:07.559
you can relate to them, perhaps
not, and just see where it leads.

789
01:01:07.559 --> 01:01:10.800
You see where it leads you keep
looking up, and what you can't

790
01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:15.360
relate to, just reject it.
It's okay, my ego is not invested

791
01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:19.360
in it. Well, and I
think people would like your personal experiences,

792
01:01:19.400 --> 01:01:22.000
which we've talked about somewhat, but
that you've also documented in this book.

793
01:01:22.760 --> 01:01:27.119
Yes, yes, so that was
me coming out for a while because usually

794
01:01:27.119 --> 01:01:30.960
I would talk about the Bible and
philosophy, I wouldn't talk about my own

795
01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:37.000
personal experiences. And kudos to my
first publisher, Barbara de Bolt, who

796
01:01:37.480 --> 01:01:40.440
said, Michael, you got to
tell people your story. Also just want

797
01:01:40.480 --> 01:01:45.960
to give a shout out to Mark
Annie, who is my publicist, and

798
01:01:46.119 --> 01:01:54.280
to Brian Knard who is the publisher
of these of these books, and they've

799
01:01:54.320 --> 01:01:59.960
done a great job. And I
want to just give credit Grave Distractions Publication

800
01:02:00.800 --> 01:02:04.519
in Nashville, Tennessee. That's the
publisher. But you can go to Amazon.

801
01:02:05.480 --> 01:02:09.199
The book is ten ninety nine and
you can also get the Kindle or

802
01:02:09.280 --> 01:02:13.960
Nook addition, so it's also out
as an e book. It's four ninety

803
01:02:14.079 --> 01:02:19.320
nine on Amazon, on Barnes and
Nobles. You can also go to my

804
01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:27.199
website which is www dot Michaeljscarter dot
com, or just forget the w's and

805
01:02:27.280 --> 01:02:32.639
go to Michaeljscarter dot com and pick
up the book. That way, all

806
01:02:32.760 --> 01:02:36.239
right, great? And I don't
know if we said it enough met The

807
01:02:36.400 --> 01:02:43.199
books title is Alien Scriptures Extraterrestrials in
the Holy Bible. Yes I would.

808
01:02:43.280 --> 01:02:45.840
I would love them to read it, and you can. I have a

809
01:02:45.920 --> 01:02:50.119
blog and you can just you can
go to my website and give me your

810
01:02:50.159 --> 01:02:52.760
thoughts and give me your opinions.
I love to read them and I will

811
01:02:52.840 --> 01:02:57.559
answer. I will respond well perfect, Well, thank you so much for

812
01:02:57.719 --> 01:03:00.360
joining me today. It's been a
lot of fun. It's been really interesting

813
01:03:00.400 --> 01:03:06.639
and as usual, the time flies. Maybe we can do it again,

814
01:03:06.840 --> 01:03:12.960
or you have a you have a
TV show, Well, we do have

815
01:03:13.519 --> 01:03:20.920
a on YouTube. We do some
videos and open Space or something like that

816
01:03:21.079 --> 01:03:24.599
we have. Yeah, we do
different interviews. We have also Spacing Out

817
01:03:25.360 --> 01:03:30.880
which will cover some UFO news and
usually have an interview on that too,

818
01:03:30.920 --> 01:03:37.239
and that's done by this couple of
very talented individuals, Jason McClellan and Maureene

819
01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:42.400
Elsberry and a couple of other co
workers of mine. Well, maybe we

820
01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:45.599
can connect that way. Yeah,
that would be great. Alright, thank

821
01:03:45.639 --> 01:03:49.559
you all, and I wish your
peace and many blessings. All right,

822
01:03:49.679 --> 01:03:53.119
great, thank you very much.
All right, thank you so much to

823
01:03:53.199 --> 01:03:57.400
Reverend Carter. That was a lot
of fun talking to him about his book.

824
01:03:58.400 --> 01:04:01.480
Remember, you can get his book
on Amazon. It's called Alien Scriptures

825
01:04:01.880 --> 01:04:08.280
Extraterrestrials in the Holy Bible. Also, you can go to his website like

826
01:04:08.360 --> 01:04:15.039
he mentioned, it's Michael Jscarter dot
com. You can actually just look up

827
01:04:15.159 --> 01:04:18.159
Reverend Michael Carter or something like that, and you'll find his website as well,

828
01:04:18.840 --> 01:04:23.599
and there you'll be able to read
his blog and also get some more

829
01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:29.559
information on his book and then watch
Ancient Aliens. In fact, he just

830
01:04:29.639 --> 01:04:33.880
got back from filming some episodes of
Ancient Aliens just before we talked to him,

831
01:04:34.039 --> 01:04:40.960
so you'll see some more of Reverend
Carter on Ancient Aliens, so that

832
01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:45.440
should be exciting. Thank you all
so much for listening. Remember, if

833
01:04:45.440 --> 01:04:47.360
you want to hear any of those
news stories or read about those new stories

834
01:04:47.400 --> 01:04:53.320
that we talked about earlier today,
go to Openminds dot tv. Also you

835
01:04:53.400 --> 01:04:57.800
can go to YouTube and we're always
posting great videos there, including spacing Out

836
01:04:57.880 --> 01:05:01.320
where they cover more of the news. Maureen and Jason host that and they

837
01:05:01.400 --> 01:05:08.119
do a spectacular job. So Spacing
Out on the Open Minds TV YouTube.

838
01:05:08.599 --> 01:05:13.800
And thank you very much for listening
and being with us once again. Join

839
01:05:13.920 --> 01:05:18.840
us next week for another exciting show. And I want to thank as usual

840
01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:24.519
the people who donated the music for
the show, and that is Caleb Hanks

841
01:05:24.599 --> 01:05:28.280
for the opening and two Earth Minutes
for the close. So thank you all

842
01:05:28.400 --> 01:06:08.079
very much. We'll talk to you
next week. Adios. Mood Chatos Thus

843
01:06:19.599 --> 01:07:35.679
which st st st st st st
step same s,