Hello, and welcome to Open Mind DUFO Radio. I am your host,
Alejandro Rojas, and I have with me the spectacular Jason McClellan or Law Lot
Lot Law. I was thinking of making a Jason McClellan theme song somehow,
may like he's Jason McLellan. Do do Jason McLellan, McClellan, mclell lell
Lynn. What do you think? Well, it's kind of like my My
initial reaction is I'm opposed to it. Come back to me next week and
I'll see what you've got. Okay, I'll work on something better. All
right, Well we have I'll tell the guys about our guests today, which
is pretty exciting. We have Reverend Michael Carter and uh so, he's written
a book recently called Alien Scriptures, and he pretty much has to do with
aliens in the Bible. What he thinks is, you know stories of course
others have done this too of the Bible, and that some of the stories
in the Bible actually are talking about extra treasturials. So he thinks some of
the you know, paranormal things that happen in there are are due to extra
treasurials. He's been on ancient Aliens a few times, and he's actually got
a degree from the Union Theological Seminary in New York City, which is a
pretty big school, a very well known school. His degree is in divinity
there. He's also got a degree in letters from the College of New Rochelle,
so he is an academic of sorts. And he works now at a
Universal Universalist church. So he has a lot of really interesting things to say.
He's a really neat guy. He's a lot of fun and so we're
going to be talking to him about aliens in the Bible, cool stuff.
So we'll have him on in a minute. But before that, Jason,
why don't we talk about some of the news from the week. Not that
there was a whole lot of UFOs news last week. You're right, buddy,
it was a slim pickens week for news, but you know, covered
what we could from those slim pickens And so for this week, I think
I want to talk about an upcoming movie about something you and I are very
interested in, in that Skinwalker Ranch. So there's a Skinwalker Ranch movie coming
out, and we've known about this that it's been in the works for a
while, but it was Friday September thirteenth. Friday the thirteenth, they finally
released the first teaser clip from the movie. And in this clip, you
see it's a found footage film, so it's presented in a manner that it
seems to be like it's a real story and real footage that was recovered from
like home movies. You see this family out at Skinwalker Ranch, they live
there, and then something appears above the child of the family and he disappears
and they freak out and all that. So it's, you know, in
the vein of you, like The Fourth Kind and Blair Witch Project, you
know, these found found footage movies where they're pretending that this is real,
real footage cover recovered at some point, and they're they're depicting some of the
wide range of unexplained phenomena that are reportedly actually happening at Skinwalker Ranch in Utah.
So this is fascinating, and Skinwalker is a personal interest of mine because
I would I'd really like to get out there and do some investigation and see
see what it's all about, because there have been so many stories and we
personally know people who have been out there, and I think there's actually something
mysterious going on. So this movie looks like it could be kind of fun,
not not great, but fun. But I'll reserve my judgment till I
see it. But it's done by a production studio in Utah called Deep Studios,
and they're planning to release the film just before Halloween on October thirtieth.
So see what that, Alejandro. They are doing something weird that you know,
I personally don't don't care for with their marketing of this, and it
seems like they're The only website that exists for this film is a Facebook page,
and you know a lot of people do that, but this Facebook page
is operated by somebody claiming to be the I think daughter or some family member
people who live there and actually had stuff happen to them. So they're they're
playing it up like this is a real movie, and this person is pretending
to be somebody actually involved and her father disappeared or something, and she's on
Twitter all the time telling people that it's real, and anybody who mentions skin
Walk a Ranch on Twitter, she applies to them and says, oh,
have you seen this footage? And of course it's the clip from the movie.
So that's the route they're going with it, which is kind of annoying.
But I think what really annoys me about that is I'm sure it's just
marketing and to death, but the problem is it kind of shows a complete
disregard for the field and for real research, and it muddies the water.
And they don't care. I mean, once the movie's done, it's like
they're gone. You know, they don't clarify or anything. It's kind of
like forth kind And there might even be some people listening to the show or
like, oh no, that was totally real. It was so many people
who, no matter what you say, will believe that that movie is real.
And the same holds you with Skinwalker, I believe. Yeah, I
agree with you that that's a big problem. And you're talking about Skinwalker Ranch.
This is an incredible story on its own. It doesn't need any embellishment
or you know, pretending. I mean, it's an awesome, intriguing story
in its own right. So I don't know why they feel the need to
go this pretender out, but I agree with you. I mean, I've
talked with you know, at least one of the scientists that was on the
ranch, and they were genuinely baffled by what had happened there. Of course,
we know George Knapt pretty well who helped write the book. It's one
of the biggest mysteries. And like you said, it's by itself extremely interesting
without any embellishment, the story that writes itself. I mean, this is
Hollywood goldmine, I would think. So it would be fun if it was
just a documentary, and even if it was film footage. You know,
just at least, you know, don't try to screw people up, because
this will now screw up. There on the poster they put out, it
says Skinwalker Ranch right on the posters is inspired by true events. So you
know, they're already seemingly making it clear that, you know, it's a
fictitious movie that's based on true events. But then by all the marketing with
Facebook and Twitter, they're pushing it as being genuine, you know, an
actual showing of real But we'll see, we'll see what they do in the
end. One I gotta say the scene though, I guess just when I
saw that scene that they did there, it was kind of cool in that
I thought it was kind of neat how they you know, this guy really
felt like a rancher, like these were ranchers out there, which is kind
of cool. So they did a good job with that, I felt,
because sometimes you know, the I'm from Colorado, I'm used to ranch country,
spent a lot of time in New Mexico, and I've spent time with
ranchers and investigating cattle mutilation or just camping and stuff. And sometimes Hollywood gets
these ranchers like they're hollywood Ish, and you know they're not. They don't
feel like they're real ranchers. So that was Hollywood ranchers. Yeah, exactly.
You know, you can tell this is just the hipster with a cowboy
hat on, but this guy really felt kind of like a rancher. So
the feel of that was kind of cool. And then just so people know,
just in case they're not familiar with Skinwalker, like this scene is mirroring
a pretty popular event where supposedly these ranchers their dogs were chasing these little orbs
of light. They ran off chasing these orbs of light, and then the
dogs were never seen again. In fact, there was a spot where there
was some weird substance that was found on the ground where they thought maybe the
dog this was what was left of the dogs. But yeah, they did
so, I mean that's what they're kind of trying to portray in this scene.
I think, yeah, And they could have stuck true to the story
and used dogs, but you know, they've got the kid, and you
know, entertainment wise, it looks like it could be a thrilling and exciting
movie. We'll see, but yeah, we'll see what happened. But one
day, my friend, we'll make our trip out there and see what we
can find at Skinwalker. Right, all right, So what story would you
like to talk about today? In my friend, Well, we had a
lot of space and NATA stories, which is kind of cool, but including
a professor wrote about search for extraterrestrial life and he's open to UFOs. But
the real only UFO story we had, which is an interesting one, is
this UFO over Belfast, which has made some news. So this was a
gentleman in the Cavehill area of just outside of Belfast, and this is a
heel I guess that overlooks Belfast and this person videotaped this thing flying around and
this person felt that it was a flying entity that he was seeing. And
however, a lot of people have felt that maybe this is a balloon and
he feels that he's filled other entities and stuff like that, but I kind
of feel like, you know, one of the guys had posted said he
thought it was a dragon shaped balloon, and k pop Stars is Korean pop
culture site posted a link to a dragon shaped balloon and it looks just very
similar to what is flying around. Lespiegel wrote about it, and he had,
of course Mark D'Antonio look at it. That's it just kind of go
to and Mark D'Antonio for Mouffon said he thought it looked like a question Mark
balloon, and they posted a picture of that, because that's fairly common.
And I kind of agree with all of that personally. At least, it
seems to be not really more shape, it flows very slow, and it
kind of spinns all the characteristics of a balloon. So I think it's highly
probable listing was a balloon or a sea horse a flying sea horse, Yes,
and the sky is that well, I feel the balloon flying seahorse,
if that is what you feel it is, is perfectly fair to have.
I don't think that it's any of its movements would indicate that it's moving any
differently than a sea horse was in the sky. You know, a sea
horse in the sky. True, I haven't, But that's a very good
point because many of us haven't seen question more balloons or dragon balloons or sea
horse balloons in the sky. So understandable why people would look at it and
say, oh, how that's bizarre, because it is bizarre. We don't
see that every day. But yeah, I agree with you. I don't
see anything that would indicate that this is behaving any differently than a balloon would
in the sky. And we're seeing this more and more, like we're saying
more and more of everything in the sky because more people have cameras and are
able to photograph and take video of these things. They do look strange,
but I don't see anything that would point to an flying entity or anything extraterrestrial
related. Who knows, though, Yeah, but it is kind of making
them rounds out there. It's kind a bit viral, so I wanted to
tell people about it. If you want to take a look and see what
you think. Of course, it's on open Mind stat te be. So
there is our short look at the news for the week. Thank you very
much, mister McClellan for sharing your input there. It's been my pleasure as
always, Alejandro, and hopefully we'll make it out to Skinwalker and we will
not be you know what is one aspect? Sorry I got to add this
because I was just thinking of mentioning hopefully we'll be safe when we go out
there. One aspect that this movie obviously isn't going with, which I think
is terribly interesting. And I know the scientists I had talked to who at
NIDS felt this was interesting because they were, of course a little frightened when
all of the weirdness happened. But like with the dogs, nothing ever happened
to humans. It was only animals that there were some cattle mutilations, there
were some animals disappearing, some other weirdness, but no humans were ever heard.
However, unfortunately animals were those bastards. So that's kind of an interesting
aspect. So at least for us when we go out there, we uh,
we're human, so most likely we'll be okay, and we'll have a
no animal policy. Don't don't bring your dogs. Yeah, good point.
Yeah, all right, well, let's go ahead and talk with Reverend Carter.
I am very excited today to be speaking with the Reverend Michael Carter,
Hello Carter. Hello, Hello, thank you for calling me. Yes,
I'm really excited to talk to you. And you have this new book out
called Alien Scriptures. Yes, yes, excited about that, you know,
I really am, because I added a couple of chapters to it, and
one on the Koran and one on my experiences as a contact EEE. And
I just feel that it's time that more and more clergy really need to look
at this phenomenon and and and uh and and kind of see where it will
take as far as what does it mean to be a church person or a
person who goes to a temple of no synagotic et cetera. The clergy really
need to look at this because it's not going to go away. Well,
and for you, you know, you have a very academic background. Yeah,
you got a degree from New Rochelle, but Union Theological Cemetery, right,
and then you got the degree in divinity from the Union Theological Semetary,
which is interesting because you know, there you're actually looking into theology. And
was it at this point or was it prior that you had already felt that,
you know, the Bible had possibly been referring to extraterrestrials. Well,
it was it was before then, because I was having my contact experiences experiences
before then. And as you and I were talking before the show, how
shocked I was when I presented this as a topic for my master's. They
I thought they were going to say, are you kidding me? Man?
But they were very supportive. But I was already having my contact experiences.
But I remember a time when I really I remember someone asking me when I
was growing up in Baltimore. I don't know how the topic came up,
do you believe in UFOs or life on other planets? And I said no.
And I distinctly remember them saying why not? And I said, because
it's not in the Bible. Imagine that human evolution is slow. But you
know, I would bring up things. For instance, there's a wonderful perricope
of verse in Isaiah chapter forty, and it says verse twenty two says it
is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are
like grasshoppers. And I was taught, like many of us were, that
we thought the earth was flat and sont Columbus. And here we have someone
writing three four five thousand years ago, and it is telling us that it
is he who sits above the seer and substance translations. But the circle of
the earth and its inhabitants are like rashoppers. So where are they getting this
information? And it got me to thinking and then people like Buried Downing,
doctor Barry Downing. He and I were both in New York yesterday taping the
show. Mars k Jessup, who some say died under very mysterious circumstances,
talked about that the Bible may be a book of UFO stories. I want
to just say at the outset that I'm not trying to take away anybody's face.
The Bible is, as is the Quran and the First Testament, which
we call the Old Testament, very important pieces of literature, very inspiring,
much wisdom is there, and it's been used to keep people of color down
to the script against women and gay brothers and sisters, and so the Bible
can you can use the Bible to support any perspective that you want. Really,
but I tried to make sure I'm not saying that there is no creator.
I think there is. I think there's an intelligence and not a man
or woman or what have you. I want to say that as you outsay.
I'm not saying God is an astronaut. But what I am saying,
and I'm not the first to say it, is that people, many scholars,
whatever, they thought these were either myths or that, you know,
we shouldn't take them very seriously. These were just the imaginations of a primitive
people. And I'm saying, no, no, no, no, we
must trust our ancestors more than that. And they meant what they said,
and they said what they meant in the language of their day, right,
And so I guess to start off, though, and we'll get more into
that, certainly, is when did your contact experiences and begin and how did
that happen? December twenty eighth, aighty nine. I went, it's just
interesting you to bring that up, talk about synchronicity. I was watching some
UFO shows this morning on the National Geographic Channel and they were talking about looking
for extraterrestrial existence in Chitzanita in Mexico. Well, I went on a vacation
to Mexico with my first wife. Well we weren't married then, but we
went there and I came back and I remember that night I went out to
see some friends of mine down on forty second Street. It was freezing,
especially coming back from like close to ninety degrees, and they were drinking and
you know, having some wine. But I was just tired. I went
to a party because someone asked me to. I showed up. I went
home and that night we lived on the upper west side, on the fifteenth
floor of the Southia Hotel on eighty first between Central Park, Western Columbus.
And I just woke up in the middle of the night and my room was
lit up like forty second Street, and there was a being on the edge
of my bed, not sitting there, just looking at me, chalky white,
pear shaped head wrapped around ray man eyes, close fitting tunic like a
jumpsuit, very form fitting. And I heard this gush of wind, and
so I was frightened. I did what I say in the book I did
with any other red blood and American person. I pulled the covers up over
my head and may pretend it wasn't and I felt this temperature change. This
I was going outside, and I forced my eyes back open. Still no,
not even a near a dog bark, as they say. It was
so quiet. My girlfriend at the time was in a deep slumber. And
this is what happened to me, and this got me on the quest and
I started having these visitations every full and new mood for about six eight months.
I still sleep with the light on, really do this there? Yes,
I mean I turn it off if I wake up in the the but
and I have no one has ever harmed me. If anything, they have
been friendly to use the word. But it's just the initial shock of waking
up or getting up and my doors are locked, my windows are shut,
and there's a being in my room. So that's what started me. I
went to a psychologist, a therapist because I was fearing for my sanity.
Doctor Jean Mundy, who has since made her transition to life after life.
She hypnotized me Bud Hopkins did late Bud Hopkins at one time, he did,
and they just affirmed or confirmed by that time. By the time I
went to Bud, I knew that this was happening, but I was just
trying to get a little deeper into the experience. And the good news,
Jeane Mundy said was that you're not crazy. And the not so good news
and telling me how you look at it, is that you've been visited and
you will probably continue to be so That's what started me on this quest.
I read voraciously, No history of Star Trek. I'm not a Trekkie.
I don't watch it now. I don't go to the movies to see it.
I didn't grow up with that because I just thought, man, I'm
just trying to deal with the life that we have now. So I couldn't
say that influenced me. And I had. My last visitation was July fourth
of this year, with years going in between. I had a blood clot
in my leg back in March that almost killed me, and I didn't know
it was a clot. I thought maybe I'd pulled a muscle. And I
was taking Kumba in and injecting myself in this tubbat with a next appair in
this blood center, and on ten minutes, actually nine forty nine, a
being came in my room here North Carolina, and it was like they shot
me. It was like an electric I felt like electricity was going through me
in my back and in my legs. And when I got up the next
day, the blood cloths were gone, my leg was healed. I went
to the doctor. They seemed a little upset. What did you do?
How did this happen? Of course, I didn't tell him what happened,
and I said, aren't you happy. They said, well, well,
we just don't understand this. And so I took the cuman in for another
week or two, and then I went to my doctor and he wanted me
to stay on it for six months, which would have been next month.
And I said, look, I don't need this anymore. I showed it
to my life and my daughter, who says she's had visits but and it's
just miraculous. I'm a very thin man, and my legs, my cat
muscles looked like Lebron James. And believe me, I'm not built like these
athletes are. And the next day my legs were back to normal. Haven't
had a problem yet. So when did this initial experience happen? The initial
what I told you about previously, was in December nineteen eighty nine. Yes,
and then I was having them. I had them in clusters. I
had them every full and New moon for that year. And then there may
have been a year before I would have a visitation. I had won a
couple of days after nine to eleven. I was living in New York then
and had a visit once I was up in Boston had a minister's conference,
So yeah, but I guess who those when they come or when they will
come. I used to miss them, even though I was afraid. But
nothing has ever happened untoward towards me. I have seen reptilians, and I
have seen I haven't seen grays. I've seen the chalk like. I guess
they have the big heads and what have you. But they weren't gray in
color. They were chalk light, very playful. One of them had a
hoodie on when he came into my room. This was in the wintertime a
few years ago. But nothing bad has happened. I knew reiki, I'm
a reiki healer, but ever since I've had these visitations, I don't know
what's coming through my hands, but it's a pretty powerful energy. Now,
when you had that initial experience, did you immediately feel as though this thing
was extraterrestrial or did you feel were you an't sure what had just happened to
you? Well, it was a little bit of both. What had happened?
Well, I mean this was real. I was not asleep and I
saw the being, you know, it was just looking at me. And
then I pulled the cover up over my head. I thought my heart was
going to come out of my chest. And I felt the temperature change as
if I was outside. Because this was December, it was freezing. And
then I forced my eyes open and I was back in my room. Now
what happened was a friend of mine, uh said to me. She was
very cold. She said, Michael, tell me what you saw. Could
you draw it for me? When I went to visit her, and she
said, I want you to go down to the East Village to eat Fifth
Street, and there's a mural on a wall there, and tell me what
you see when you go down there. And when I when I had gone,
I caught the subway and I walked over and there were pictures of extraterrestrials.
Someone had painted a mural on a fence there, and it looked like
one of the people that came to my that were in my room. And
I told her. And I went to the Strand bookstore and I bought all
these books, and you know, I was embarrassed, and and I went
up to the counter and the guy said to me, you look like you're
in pretty bad shape. I said, no, no, I'm fine.
I felt like I was buying a condo or something for the first time,
and he said, you know, he said, what's all this and I
said, just some books. He said, is this a hobby or is
this the real deal? And I didn't answer him, but first I said
I think it's the real deal. He said, looks like you need a
support group. And he turned me onto the Space group, which is Harold
Englin's and Antonio's friends with howld his group, his UFO support group, And
so I went there and they helped me through a very hard time. Wow.
Interesting. And then at some point it sounds like the experiences turned into
communication where you were able to communicate with these being well they woul show me
pictures. Oh, they were showing me pictures in my head, and that's
the only way I could. You know. For instance, when I was
in Boston at a minister's conference and you know, I was paralyzed and I
couldn't force my eyes open, I wasn't asleep, and it was a picture
of one of the little extraterrestrials and he was pointing and it had a set
of prayer hands with a lightning bolt in between the heads, and that to
me signified we want you to do prayer or spiritual healing. There was one
time in New York where I was lying home. I usually lie on my
stomach when I was going to sleep, and I felt someone touching my head
and I felt this needle go into the back of my head in the small
part where the what does that, you know, where your spine goes up
to It's a little indentation there, and it was I mean, it really
hurt. And in my mind's eye, they showed me a syringe and I
remember I was so angry that it had hurt me, and I remember screaming
at the top of my lungs at them. I used to keep a golf
club in my bedroom and I had the golf club. And my wife at
the time said, if you if I could have taken a picture of you
in your underwear, yelling at the top of your lungs with a golf club
and your head saying stop this, don't stick me, don't hurt me,
she said, I would have been priceless. Wow. Yeah, But even
though this this incident happened where you know that this is it was a painful
experience. You feel that all your experiences with all of these different entities have
been positive overall. Yeah, you know, I have to say they were.
That's why at the beginning, people like David Jacobs used to get on
my nerves because I appreciate his hypothesis and the hybrid breeding program and all that,
and that could very well be true. But for me, it's you
know, when people say, well, what do the aliens want? And
which aliens are you talking about? Which species? It's like saying what do
black people want? What do Latino brothers and sisters? Wok? What do
poor apples? You have to talk to them individually, you know, you
got to take things individually. And it would, it would, it would
really get under my skin when folk would do that. When Bud had his
support group, but at A I got a little saaneously. But it was
almost like this division with the support group I was in. Most of the
folks there felt that they had positive experiences, even though you wake up and
it's like how the hell did you get it? You know, you go
through that kind of thing, and it was like most of the folk and
Bud group, you know, they were traumatized. And I can understand.
I mean, you know, o of them is taking a sperm is taking
so I'm not saying that what happened to them wasn't true. I wouldn't begin
to say that. But what I will say is that but that was their
truth. I've had other experiences. Richard Boorman's book Positive Experiences with ET Visitors
was a godsend to me because I was like, Okay, here's somebody who's
talking about the other end of the spectrum. Of course, John Max's book
a books, you know these, at least there was another paradigm as opposed
to I'm a victim and they've come to me and they've done this, that
and the other. Again, I'm not saying that that doesn't happen. I'm
just saying that the ones who visited me had well, my god, they
just healed my legs two months ago. Now. Was this message or they
were giving you? It sounds like a lot of it was very personal.
Was it? Do you think mainly kind of an education process for you that
they were involved in, or do you do you think there was a wider
goal that they were also that they shared with you. I think it is.
I think all of even the individuals, a wider goal because it's transformational.
I'm not interested in propulsion systems or the nuts and bolts, How do
they fly? How do they get here? Inter dimensional? I'm more concerned
too strong a word. I'm more attracted to and interested in, how do
we relate to each other spiritually after you've had these experiences. Now, when
I first started having my experiences, I was an actor in New York.
I was debating when I wanted to get out of show business and go into
ministry because I always knew as a kid, I was going to be a
minister of some sort. And but I was not on my path. I
mean, I was partying after the shows. I was trying to sleep with
everything that wasn't Mail Dell's. I mean, I was a wild and crazy
guy. And I think the visitation helped me. Said, Michael, you
know this is not what you signed up for. Now you can keep doing
what you want, but this is not what you signed up for. There's
more to it than this. And so it kind of got me, had
gotten me back on where I was at the beginning of developing an inner life
and how do I exist and coexist? How do I relate to this planet?
Uh? You know, those were the type of things and it got
me right back on on that path into metaphysics and what have you, uh
and so, and I think that what I'm doing now, I mean a
lot of the teachings of new thought and metaphysics I find and I think doctor
Boylan would maybe agree on some level that this is not new thought or new
age. This is stuff that our ancestors do, the prophets, the seers
that thought create things, that thought are things, and so and and and
that I'm part of a larger No, I'm not just an African American man
with Cherokee blood or English blood. I'm not just an American. I'm I'm
so much more than that. And I think that this was the I think
this was what they wanted me to know, that be who you are,
you've forgotten who you are. It's funny that you mentioned it. It's called
new age. But of course the philosophies are all older than they're Yes,
they're all these things. And so I don't I don't preach it for my
pulpit. I don't even know. Last I preached two weeks ago, and
U and two people came up to me and said, I just saw you
on the History Channel, and I was like, oh, okay, I
don't preach at UFO theology at all. I'm at the Unitarian Universal Church.
You want to talk about left brain people. But what I'm trying to do
is I'm trying to insert. I may bring up some things from a course
of Miracles. I may throw in some stuff from Neil Walsh's Conversations with God.
Of course, i'll talk about Anderson Threau, you know. But I'll
try to throw in some metaphysical material. And I'm surprised, pleasantly so that
some people already know these things. And so there's a there's like a spirit
moving across the old way of doing things, whether it's us in Syria or
the way we deal with the planet. They don't work anymore. And so
we've got to find new ways to be with one another. We fight too
much, we argue too much, we go to war too quickly. We've
got to find different ways to be together. So we're gonna kill each other.
So then, at probably I would imagine it was around this time when
you started to see the Bible a little differently. Yes, and still I
see it differently in many many ways. As I stated at the outset,
I think it's a wonderful book. I think all the of atheistic religions or
people of the book, as they say, the Koran beautiful, the First
Testament we call Old Testament, Second Testament, New Testament fantastic. But I
mean in any cosmology, the Native Americans talk about the Star people. We
have our Hindu brothers and sisters talking about the Mahabarata and the Vimanas and what
have you. They always talk about there's always a story about knowledge and wisdom
coming down from above. And when I started looking at some of these stories
of Moses and the parting of the Red Sea, of the Star of Bethlehem,
of some of the ugliest stories talking about on yesterday on the show Ancient
Aliens, we were talking about the arc of the Covenant and some of the
things that happened. Yahweh giving people hemorrhoids in the King James version they call
them boyles, but Yahweh gave the Philistine hemorrhoids where they stole the ark of
the Covenant. That doesn't sound like something a loving God would do. That
sounds so very humid. If you will and h and uh, you know,
it sounds like Yahweh has a lot of issues, but he's not a
God's technologically, h he probably appeared as won, but he's got his anger
issues and what have you, and he could all be wrong. This could
all I could be wrong about this. I just don't think I am m
well. And you keep making the point too, And I think it's worth
pointing out that you are involved with the Unitarian Universalist Congregation in New York,
and that church or that group is all inclusive. It honors all the different
religions. They really do, they really do, and they're not perfect,
but no religious system is. But you know, we can, you know,
we we can explore. We can say I don't believe that, or
I doubt that without someone saying, well, i'll pray for you, or
you don't have faith. We don't those we have other issues, but those
are not the issues that we have right and I want to get into.
So then you've decided to go get a degree in divinity at that oh yeah,
Union Theological Seminary, which is a very prestigious school in New York.
Yeah. Did you find it as was it your goal? Were you kind
of like, I need to bring this idea to these academics and theology.
You know, I was afraid to it first because It wasn't a driving force
because I just wanted to get my education and get out of there because I
went. You know, I was forty four years old when I got my
master's. I didn't go to these union until I was like forty one.
It was a three year program. And but when when people were writing,
you know, when they were talking about what they wanted to write about as
a master's thesis, it just didn't appeal appeal to me. But I've said,
look, I'm having these experiences. I wasn't't telling anyone about these experiences
at all. I didn't come up with my experiences until this book was written.
But I was doing UFO conferences, you know, I was in the
closet about it, and I just said, let's give it a whirl.
And my Delores Williams, who is not only a brilliant academic but well known
in seminary circles. She was my systematic theology teacher, and she said,
why don't you stay on and do a PhD. She was so enthusiastic about
what I was writing, But I didn't want to be fifty five years old
still paying back stead. You know, James Cohn and Systematics was also talking
about we'll stay on and do a PhD. And I appreciated it. It
made me feel because there were some brilliant people there, students as well as
professors. But I didn't want to do that. I wanted to have an
active ministry, and so I wrote it. It was really well received.
Barry Downing, who's a good colleague of mine, a mentor, he was
taping the show yesterday with me, and you know he wrote a book UFO
in the Bible way back in nineteen sixty eight. I mentioned doctor Jessup.
So these were pioneers. I bring a different slant because I'm a man of
color, but I'm also a contactee. And so that was the other thing.
When I heard David Jacobs and other folks talk. They were talking from
an academic point of view. Don't want to pick on brother Jacobs, but
he comes to mind so readily. But I'm like, okay, but I
have a different slant. I have a different point of departure as being a
man of color living in America. I don't you know, I go to
conferences once in a while. I used to, and I wouldn't see many
people who look like me. And I began to wonder the et brothers and
sisters do they not visit people of color? What's the point? Why me
better than that, because I have been visiting, and I worn in the
book about intergalactic racism. It maybe not be done so consciously. But the
Grays, they're dark, they're short, they're the ones that are they're a
bad ets. The Swedes, the Nordics, brothers and sisters who you know,
most of Europeans see though, I mean, yes, they come here,
but brothers and sisters, I know in Europe they say, well,
we don't see a lot of grays. But well, you know, I've
been visited by the Nordics, the Sweds, and people say, well,
they're the good ones. They're the blonde, blue eyed, Palladian, you
know. But if you're dark and short and bald, and I'm being flipped
in some ways, but they're the bad ones. And we categorize, so
these are good and these are bad. And I want us to be careful
of that, yeah, because that's the same thing we do with one another.
Right. Well, And I found this interesting because you have you've got
three chapters. A book is essentially broken into three parts, and the third
chapter is called religious conservative and liberal perspectives. And it was interesting because in
there you kind of tackle the conservative groups kind of do like what you're talking
about segregating. Know, they're they're bad and that it. Oh they come
from Slaton and they're the fallen angels, yes, and that's just. And
yes, there are some that you don't want to meet in the dark alley.
I mean, some of these folks you know, you know they they
I mean, you don't you know, you don't want to play with certain
things. But let's always look at because there's three fives to every story,
yours, mine and the truth. And so the liberal position has been,
well, these are all allegorical stories. You know, we can we can,
we can, we can sift out meetings and you can nothing. You
can do all of that, and then the other party is well. And
I remember when some conservative folks would say they didn't exist. Now they exist,
but they're evil. And like the Buddha says, you take the middle
path. The truth is always in the middle. And so that's that at
least that's been my experience for fifty six summers on the planet. And what's
interesting, and I wonder, because you've been doing this for a while,
and you've been paying attention to the philosophies and the viewpoint of different groups.
It seems as though it's grown as far as people believing are sharing their belief
in this phenomena. But like you said, both ends are growing, the
conservative and the liberal ends, and that's okay because that life can be polarity.
But yeah, it shows like ancient aliens, this is their sixth season.
Of course, you have fallen skies where they're ugly and it looks like
bugs and da da da. You're always going to have that. And then
there are probably reasons for that too, political and society and what have you.
But the mere fact that I can talk to you about this, it
shows that that that human evolution is changing. And so it's slow, it's
painful, it's annoying. But most people believe that there is life on other
planets, and they know that our government is lying to us because they say,
no, there's not life on other place, and we have tons and
tons of classified information to prove it to you. And so it's like,
come on, man, come on, and one day there's just going to
be a siding that that won't be explained away. It's not going to be
a weather but well, we've already seen that. They'll have it. We
but one day there's just going to be a siding, or we're going to
see one of these extra correctional brothers and sisters, and you know, it's
just the cats out of the bag. I say, why wait, I
say, let's get our religious leaders talking about it. And I understand.
I think while the government doesn't want to talk about it, because then they're
going to have to say why we lie for fifty years or more? You
know, why did some people wind up missing? Okay, why did Eisenhower,
if that story is true, turned down free energy and spiritual awareness for
technology. I mean, we'll have to answer those things. But nothing changes
until you call it what it is, and you don't put old wine in
new wine skins. Well, and along these lines, you know, what
is your perspective when you see like the Vatican holding an astrobiological convention like they
did, you know, I you know, it's it's it's encouraging, it's
you know what we're to lie about that. It's also you know, you
also want to say, well what was still what's not being told? But
but like I said, human evolution is slow. So I celebrate and maybe
some people say, well, Michael, that's low hanging fruit. I celebrate
the mere fact that they have it and they have come out it. And
the Malagucci, uh, I think, I don't know whether he's going on
either, but he came up yes, and and you know, he said,
it's extrapresial life. Evatican has known about this for for several decades.
Of course we know about it, so and and and I try to be
empathetic in the sense of, you know, maybe they think people will panic.
Of course, you know, if we can get free energy and things
like that, then oil companies, the whole, this whole system would collapse.
But maybe it needs to economically, who knows. But I'm just happy
that I can say that I live in a time where this is this is
happening. And and you know, like I said, fifteen twenty years ago,
I wouldn't have mentioned to you that I've had these experiences. And I
stuck, I said, I don't preach it for my pulpit, but I
mean, it's so acceptable now. I don't have to worry about Oh,
the guys are not. I mean they may say that, but you know,
you know what I mean so it sounds like I mean, from your
book and from what you're talking about this transformational and evolutionary process, that you
would feel that you know, these extra treastuals have been involved with this process
we've been going through for thousands of years and continue to be a part of
that, you know what. I believe it with all my heart, and
I want to say this, and these experiences have taught me to love more
deeply. I'm not saying that you have to meet an et before you can
learn to love, but I mean to really go into the depths of what
it means to be at least human that I put that in quotes, and
and for me to appreciate the planet and to live this, to live it
and even and not just to live it outside with who I encounter, but
even in my personal relationships, I'm much more forgiven. No therapy and other
things I've helped with that too, but I'm much more. I'm a different
person, and and I'm not so much a different person in the sense that
no one recognizes me, but what was in me I'm bringing forth. And
do I make mistakes, of course, I make hatous mistakes that I've learned
to forgive my self. I'm less, less judgmental about myself as well as
other people. I'm more willing to uh say I'm sorry or I'm wrong.
Uh, more more able to be vulnerable. And I'm not saying all of
it is from these visits, but it's the catalyst. Uh. I'm less
fearful, I'm more patient of others than myself. And I do my own
spiritual practices. You know, I do yoga, I swim, I meditate
regularly. You know, I do a lot of things. So it's not
by osmosis, but all these things have gone into making me the person who
I am, which is, like I said, beyond category. And people
used to say that about Duke Ellington. His music is beyond category. But
yeah, beyond category because I'm much more powerful than I'm really I'm more responsible.
I'm not the victim. I know that I do create my own reality
and when I when I when, and when I deviate from that, I
know that's just my ego not wanting to take responsibility. Look what's happening to
me. You made me do that. Look how you're making me feel.
No one can do that to me but me. So you've had your own
transformation and evolution. Do you feel then, over these years, by you
know, writing your book about you Know, which spanned one hundreds thousands,
thousands of years, that humanity has also involved and is there an end to
evolving? Or do can you just continue to evolve forever? No? I
think what I was just finishing up another one of THEO. Walsh's books on
conversations with God, and no, you're evolving even when you leave this plane,
even when you go into life after life, you're evolving to go back
to the source and then you keep evolving. It's it's the circle. It's
the circle of life. And so you all and the only decision is if
you want to grow kicking by kicking and screaming, or do you want to
go along with it? But either way you're going to grow. And so
it becomes how do I want to do this? Uh? You know,
because you know, there is the old thing that aging is a fact,
maturing is optional. And I've just decided that I'm going to keep on keeping
on and and when it's time to leave here and go onto the next plane
of existence, that will be it. But I'm still growing and evolving,
and that's the cycle of the soul and and and you know this is that
news. Physics is telling us this now, Uh, they're just catching on.
But our se years and sages have been telling us this for millennia.
And of course, you know, we get these avatars and what have you
who come here from wherever they come from them to try to remind us of
who we are. And of course we kill them or nail them the pieces
of wood or pizza, you know what out of them. But they come
anyway, they keep coming, they keep loving us to death, and eventually
we'll get it. Mm hmm. So and I think this gets into a
little bit of where some people struggle is that I think some people don't want
to feel that they're angels or saviors or gods are not divine and that extra
trustural does an equal divinity. So where is that line between the divinity for
you? Do you feel that, you know, all of these stories come
from our extraterrestrial and nature or is there some that is divine and beyond and
some that is extraterrestural. Well, I think it's both ends. I tend
to think that because people, I mean, some of these beings can shake,
shift or whatever, they can come to you and every whatever form you
need in order for you to for them, you to be heard for them.
He says, you can hear them. I think that listen. Even
if I didn't have these experiences, there's an intelligence to the universe. There
is a law, and if I jump out of this third floor window here
off my balcony, I'm gonna go splat. But there's also other universal laws
that you do read what you sew, that what goes around does come around.
This is regardless of extraterrestrial visitation or not. And a lot of the
things that we say are impossible, it's because maybe they're laws that we don't
know about. So for me, it's just one great mystery. And I'm
learning to embrace the mystery. And you know who was it was a careerguard
who said, too day said life is lived forward, but it's understood backwards.
But he also said life is not a problem to be solved, it's
a mystery to be lived and know. Once we can live in mystery,
once we can say there's some things I don't know, there's some things I'll
never know, and that can be okay. Then I'm in the moment.
I'm not in my head, I'm in my heart, I'm in the moment.
But to get caught up and trying to understand everything. And I'm not
saying don't be curious, but there's some things you won't understand. And it's
okay not to know. But the human ego, the human ego wants to
know all because there's a security and not being wrong. The human ego wants
to be right. Well, it's taking me fifty six ommers to just get
it. Michael, do you want to be right or do you want to
be a piece right? It's interesting you say that. I just heard an
interview yesterday from a lady who wrote a book called I Don't Know, and
it's about this exact topic. It's about the psychology behind people struggling with the
idea of they don't want to say I don't know. You know, it's
hard for them. They have to come up with an answer if it's not
accurate, right, it's scary, it's scary. Uh. And part of
that is growing up too. I mean, I know a guy who told
me that his father would rather said he'd rather hurt himself than to be right,
going to be wrong, never admit, And that's playing God. That's
hubers Uh. You know, of course you can do. That's part of
being in the body uh on planet Earth. That you're going to be wrong
that if I'm looking forward, I'm not going to see what's behind me.
That's just part of the game. Plant. I don't know, I don't
know where if that's the way on other dimensions or other planets, but on
this planet that's that's the way it's working now. And it sounds like too
when you're talking about the evolution and these these laws. In that case,
if the manifestation, like you said, they whatever comes to teach you these
laws, it kind of means that everything to piece of divinity, everything is
divine. That's what the Buddhers say. The genistation are more along those lines,
yes, yeah, yeah, And the more contemplative, contemplative monks and
Christianity can probably express it in a similar fashion. But you know, it's
it's it's the power of now and what I had, Like I'm talking to
you, I've been talking to you for about forty five minutes. I'm not
thinking about what I'm going to do when we hang up. I'm not thinking
about what I did before you called. I'm in the moment with you now,
because that's all I really have, and mine now will shape my future.
I can't change the past, and I don't the future hasn't gotten here
yet. But if I'm in the present now, that will help shape my
future and that's all we have. I guess would you then argue which that
regardless of where the message comes from, like for instance, when you're looking
at this and you're seeing the similarity, Like for instance, you have this
beautiful image which I'm sure many of our listeners have seen. This is painting
from fourteen eighty six called the Annunciation with Saint the Idiots, where there's a
disc shape with a beaming coming hands that these demonstrator or are similar to stories
we hear these days that are attributed to Extra Treastral. But the message is
still the same regardless. The message is that we've come here to grow and
to love. That's it. Reptilian Palladian praying man to. Doesn't matter who's
bringing it to you. They may rock your world with the way they look,
but you got to go beyond appearances. And the thing is is that
I believe, Michael, I have to own this for me. Everybody has
their own path that we are here to love in all its many manifestations.
And the teacher may not be with the long hair or the dreadlocks that I
used to have. And then may they may not come with the long robe.
They may be the person who flips you the bird and cuts you off
in traffic. It may be the person in line with you at the bank.
They may be your greatest teacher at least for that day, in that
moment. And so we may be looking for the eureka or they call it
the aha moment, looking for the universe to send us the message in a
blue box, but it's coming behind you in a red box. But we're
so wedded to what's in the blue box that we miss it all together.
M hm, you know. And that's what I don't want people to do.
That's what I don't want to do. Yeah, in your perspective,
Then, with all of this kind of interaction that may have been happening with
these with extra trestrals, do you think that we'll get to a moment or
we're getting closer to a moment where it will be it won't be a secretive,
it'll be above for it, It'll be face to face. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, doctor King said. Well, doctor King quoted
Victor Hugo. No lie lives forever. No Lie lives forever. And yeah,
it's only a matter of time. Now does that mean I'll live to
see it. I'd like to. I could go out here to today and
get hit by a car what have you. But yeah, yeah, it's
going to happen. And so would argue that it already has happened. I
mean, I have videotape here of someone in Mexico taking pictures of flying sauces
in twenty in the year two thousand, and it's interesting. There's more proof
that flying sauces exist than there are that Jesus existed. And I do believe
they existed. But we have camp quarter to tape, we have tastes of
this, but people will still say no, no, no, that's something
else. Yeah, interesting, because that wasn't. Monsignor Balducci's main argument was
that, you know, the belief in Jesus in the Bibles, these are
anecdotal stories. It's mostly anecdotal, and so is a lot of the UFO
phenomenon. And if I'm going to believe the anecdotes of these people, I've
got to be open to the stories of others as well, especially when I
can see it. You know what's you You can believe me or you don't
believe your long eyes, right, honey, if I've seen it, and
I know what I've seen, and so uh, you know, I have
to follow that. I have to follow that. But you know what,
what it comes down to is this Alhanso. It doesn't matter. I'll know
what you believe by how you treat me. You can go to Bible study
every Wednesday night. You can go to the temple on Friday tomorrow shavas,
you can go to the mosque and say Friday night. You can do all
of that, but I don't know what you believe by the way you treat
me. That'll be the biggest, the greatest sermon that I will ever get
or ever give. Right. Well, see, and I think that works
kind of. It's very important because I, like you said, the message
is what's important when it comes down to it. However, you accept that
message, yes, And you don't have to believe in UFOs. You don't
just be a loving person. Just look inside and look at your rough edges
and what can you learn? What do you need to look at where are
you not conscious? That's all this is about, really it is. I
mean, that's what these books were purported to tell us. You have some
human beings welcome. And they were flawed and they wrote from their own political,
social, and cultural perspective. But those stories have meaning and you can
look and glean the meaning and they're a wealth of wisdom of how to live
your life. Now those are eternal truths. Well, I guess my final
question, because we're running out of time, we'll get you. I don't
want to tell people where they can get the book the exactly. Yeah,
we want to get back into the book because the book is great. You
know, it talks about you know, UFOs in the historical context. You
also go into the UFOs in antiquity, which people are really interested. And
then we talked actually more about the third part, which is the conservative and
liberal perspectives. But what are some other parts of the book that you are
are proud of that people really like that you would like people to know that.
I'd like them to look at the the section on the Qur'an because you
know, you can't have first of all, you can't have judaism, you
can't have Christianity without Judaism, uh, you know, and the Moses Moses,
the Moses story with the pill of cloud by day, pill of pier
by. Note that's there is no Jewish religion until the Exodus, so it
is a Ufo involved in that. And of course you can't have his song
without Christianity and Judaism, mostly Judaism, And so I want people to look
at that and to familiarize yourself with some of the passages in the Quran beautiful
books. And I would also like you to look at the lessons I've learned
as a contactee, lessons that I have learned earned and you know, perhaps
you can relate to them, perhaps not, and just see where it leads.
You see where it leads you keep looking up, and what you can't
relate to, just reject it. It's okay, my ego is not invested
in it. Well, and I think people would like your personal experiences,
which we've talked about somewhat, but that you've also documented in this book.
Yes, yes, so that was me coming out for a while because usually
I would talk about the Bible and philosophy, I wouldn't talk about my own
personal experiences. And kudos to my first publisher, Barbara de Bolt, who
said, Michael, you got to tell people your story. Also just want
to give a shout out to Mark Annie, who is my publicist, and
to Brian Knard who is the publisher of these of these books, and they've
done a great job. And I want to just give credit Grave Distractions Publication
in Nashville, Tennessee. That's the publisher. But you can go to Amazon.
The book is ten ninety nine and you can also get the Kindle or
Nook addition, so it's also out as an e book. It's four ninety
nine on Amazon, on Barnes and Nobles. You can also go to my
website which is www dot Michaeljscarter dot com, or just forget the w's and
go to Michaeljscarter dot com and pick up the book. That way, all
right, great? And I don't know if we said it enough met The
books title is Alien Scriptures Extraterrestrials in the Holy Bible. Yes I would.
I would love them to read it, and you can. I have a
blog and you can just you can go to my website and give me your
thoughts and give me your opinions. I love to read them and I will
answer. I will respond well perfect, Well, thank you so much for
joining me today. It's been a lot of fun. It's been really interesting
and as usual, the time flies. Maybe we can do it again,
or you have a you have a TV show, Well, we do have
a on YouTube. We do some videos and open Space or something like that
we have. Yeah, we do different interviews. We have also Spacing Out
which will cover some UFO news and usually have an interview on that too,
and that's done by this couple of very talented individuals, Jason McClellan and Maureene
Elsberry and a couple of other co workers of mine. Well, maybe we
can connect that way. Yeah, that would be great. Alright, thank
you all, and I wish your peace and many blessings. All right,
great, thank you very much. All right, thank you so much to
Reverend Carter. That was a lot of fun talking to him about his book.
Remember, you can get his book on Amazon. It's called Alien Scriptures
Extraterrestrials in the Holy Bible. Also, you can go to his website like
he mentioned, it's Michael Jscarter dot com. You can actually just look up
Reverend Michael Carter or something like that, and you'll find his website as well,
and there you'll be able to read his blog and also get some more
information on his book and then watch Ancient Aliens. In fact, he just
got back from filming some episodes of Ancient Aliens just before we talked to him,
so you'll see some more of Reverend Carter on Ancient Aliens, so that
should be exciting. Thank you all so much for listening. Remember, if
you want to hear any of those news stories or read about those new stories
that we talked about earlier today, go to Openminds dot tv. Also you
can go to YouTube and we're always posting great videos there, including spacing Out
where they cover more of the news. Maureen and Jason host that and they
do a spectacular job. So Spacing Out on the Open Minds TV YouTube.
And thank you very much for listening and being with us once again. Join
us next week for another exciting show. And I want to thank as usual
the people who donated the music for the show, and that is Caleb Hanks
for the opening and two Earth Minutes for the close. So thank you all
very much. We'll talk to you next week. Adios. Mood Chatos Thus
which st st st st st st step same s,