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The o'chilly Effect is sponsored by Wall
Street Window dot com and listeners like you,

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yeah now checky. Apologies to you
guys on the live stream. Of

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course, you probably already gave up
and moved on, and you'll come back

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later to listen to replays on the
twenty four seventh stream on o Chelly dot

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com Radio. But those of you
that stuck around, you're going to be

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rewarded with the live show because it
is the twenty fifth day of April twenty

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twenty three, allegedly according to that
thing we call a calendar. And this

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is indeed this show you're looking for. How do I know that? Because

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you wouldn't have found it otherwise.
Uh, getting buried all over the place

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feels like I'm getting shadow band in
my own shadows. Anyways, whatever it

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is it is, and I know
a guy that that might know a little

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something about shadow banning. But let
me set this up first. Really really

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happy to have William Ramsey along with
me on a Tuesday Tears Day. That's

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what it is. It is the
day of death, so appropriate because you

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know t y R is the goddess
of death, right I think so?

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If I remember my esoteric stuff,
anyway, are we talking about that tonight?

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Maybe stick around, we could talk
about the global death cult. Maybe

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this is part of it. Why
I heard something in the news speeds the

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other day and now I'm getting a
little a little bit of noise from you

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William over there. I don't know
what that is. Sounded like a refrigerator

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ice or something. But we we
are live. It's okay. Look if

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your icemakers acting up good. But
anyway, back to the story. I

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was listening to, uh, you
know, the the audio news speeds like

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I do when I'm doing other work, and I heard a lady mentioned a

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body being dumped in the Chicago River. So my ears perked up a little

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bit because something just I don't know
what it was. It was like,

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wait a minute, geographically, that
makes sense for something I heard before.

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And then she said something about the
smiley faced killers. Now I don't know

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who this author was, because I'm
listening to News Nation. You know that

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network that recently hired a meat Headquomo
over there or Frado or whatever he calls

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himself or doesn't call himself, who
cares from the privileged family over there,

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right, okay, So anyway,
he's doing his thing. And he's on

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a Christian conservative network now, which
is how they identify themselves. Who am

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I to argue whatever it is it
is? But they were having some true

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crime discussions, and I've been listening
to some true crime stuff off and on

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lately. Missus O makes me so
bear with me, and I do listen

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to some true crime stuff when there's
really something to discuss the resurgence of,

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like the Jeffrey Dahmer thing and all
that recently interest in it. People acting

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like Geea, I never knew this
happened because you weren't alive in the nineties,

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I understand, but I was Anyway. The thing is, I've been

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asking for several years where did all
the serial killers gone? And or where

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where did they all go? I
was thinking of that song Wearable Flowers Gone?

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But there it is, right,
Where have all the serial killers gone?

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We don't see the sensational reporting,
we don't see the follow up on

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the prosecutions, We don't see all
that so much. But maybe we do

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and we don't realize it. Maybe
nobody's been prosecuted, but there is action

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occurring as we speak. And William
Ramsay is somebody who's paid attention to this

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for a long time. And meanwhile, now I'm starting to see static.

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People ask me when I had him
on about the smiley faced Killers, what

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the hell is he talking about?
Is he seeing patterns where there are none?

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And I said, no, it
does appear as though there's some kind

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of pattern here. I can't discern
what's going on. I'm not deeply researched

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here on this, but i gotta
say there's something going on here. I

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don't know what it is, a
little skeptical on my part, but again,

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those people that were even skeptical then
now turning to it, noticing it.

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And there appears to be a fringe
is of the online communities that are

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starting to pay attention to it.
So it's not just ROBERTA. Glassville Smith

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and William Ramsey. Of course,
if you're not familiar with William Ramsey,

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you'll be familiar with him by the
time I'm done talking. And I'm gonna

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shut up now. And first of
all, asked my friend how he's doing.

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I took a few minutes to talk
to him before the show, which

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was why we went late. But
if you're hearing the podcast, you don't

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care. It doesn't matter So anyway, William, how are you doing to

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night, sir, I'm doing great. Thanks for the invite, checked great

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to be with you. It is
absolutely great to have you along. And

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look, I wanted to make sure
I wasn't starting to see patterns and things

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that didn't exist too, because all
of a sudden, I'm seeing interest in

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this and people using phrases that you
were one of the few people out there

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using only a few months ago,
only last year even, And you've been

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on this for a bit, right, no doubt. My first documentary I

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put out in twenty seventeen, so
I've been studying this for at least six

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years, all in cases and staying
kind of in the community of online researchers

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for sure. Yeah yeah, I
mean I took notice of you a couple

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of years ago with it, but
I wasn't sure what to make of it.

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I'm still not sure what to make
of it, honestly, because we

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don't have investigative agencies following up and
putting these things together and showing us the

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evidence that makes sense. But on
the surface, when you have a pattern

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of behaviors and mysterious deaths and there
is you know, logistical links and there

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is, you know, profiles that
you can put together. I don't know,

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maybe I've seen too many movies.
It seems like somebody should be putting

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these things together and they're not.
So, you know, tell me a

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little bit about that. Well,
you know what I'm getting ahead of myself.

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First, let's go back to the
ABC's tell people who the smiley faced

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killers are. I know you don't
have the perpetrators in hand, but tell

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people what the pattern that you're seeing
and why it is that you believe there

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is a group acting here, and
it would have to be a group to

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accomplish what I'm seeing here in the
pattern. But tell us about this.

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I believe there's independent cells actually committing
these types of crimes. But it got

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its name from the two original investigators
who noticed the phenomenon. It's really just

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a phenomenon of young men being out
at night, later disappearing, and later

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to be found in water, oftentimes
much later than they should have been found

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weeks or even over a month later. And the two people who were researching

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it were Gilbertson, who was a
criminologist I believe in Minnesota, and Gannon,

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who was a New York police officer. So they both saw this phenomenon

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and kind of got together. They
wrote a book called Case Studies in Forensic

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Drownings and covered fourteen cases, and
they gave it the name the Smiley Face

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Killers because there's an association between where
they thought a lot of these bodies were

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put in the water and finding this
smiley face. So that's how it got

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its name. It really could just
be called the phenomenon of young men being

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murdered and then dumb water is really
it. But that really started. They

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noticed the phenomenon in the mid nineties. Really the first case was a case

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in New York a kid by the
name of Patrick McNeil. He was a

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Fordham University student. He disappeared out
of Manhattan and later to be found kind

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of down the Hudson, much farther
than he should have been, and he

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was later to be found. They
did a full autopsy on Cyril whacked if

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people know, the JFK investigation,
But that same famous forensic examiner examined the

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body of Patrick McNeill and found later
something the police did not disclose is that

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he had been tortured with a blowtorch
and hid in the head with a hammer.

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So he had been taken somewhere,
horrible things happened to him. Then

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he was later dumped in the water. So that was the beginning of it.

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And this phenomenon really has taken place
in the national media has done a

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few shows, and some of the
talk show host doctor Oz among others,

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have done kind of shows within the
last couple of years on it. But

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I would say the corporate media has
failed to really look into this phenomenon.

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The online communities, however, are
I've never seen it this hot, this

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much interest within the last couple of
months because it's happening independently in two different

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metropolitan areas. Austin, Texas and
Chicago, Illinois have literally had people found

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within the last week each of those
cities, but they were people found any

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streak of deaths over the last year. Ladybird Lake has had eight bodies found

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in the water in Chicago's about on
the same piece, and so they're calling

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it a serial killer independently, but
they're not seeing this phenomenon with the kind

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of wide angle lens that I tried
to do, which is to show that

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it's this phenomenon of young men being
in a bar, probably drugged and dumbed

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in the river is happening all over
the US and the UK and the world.

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Really, Okay, so let me
take the wide angle lens and apply

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the skeptics eye to it. Okay, in all fairness, I come from

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the Northeast. Now, dumping a
body in a body of water is not

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unusual up there, all right.
I even took time to study something that

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happened in one of my one of
the places that I would call my hometown

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in Neptune City, where there was
this a group of young people who there

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was a girl that disappeared for a
little bit, right, And it turns

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out that one of her quote friends
end quote, had discovered she inherited some

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cash and decided to kill her and
dump her body. And I knew all

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the locations. I knew where these
people lived, I knew the streets,

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and so therefore I got kind of
hooked into it for a minute. And

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they dumped her. Now they had
done a pretty nasty job of bludgeoning her.

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It turns out it was one guy, maybe it was two. The

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two of them went to trial.
Certainly, it's an isolated incidence, and

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I don't believe it's part of this
at all okay. Now, the only

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reason why I bring it up is
because again it's a common thing if you're

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near bodies of water and being from
New Jersey and New York, guess what.

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Bodies get dumped in the HUDs,
and they get dumped in the various

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inlets, they get dumped in the
ocean, William. I mean, this

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is just a fact of life when
it comes to murder in the northeast of

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the US. Now we are talking
about two different areas where this is happening.

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What is different from say just an
increased to currency here in murders where

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people are just getting dumped in bodies
of water. And I'm just going with

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people here because I use the girl
as an example. But you know,

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victims can vary as to whether they're
male or female all the time, and

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for various purposes. It could be
robbery, it could be vengeance, it

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could be you know, you slept
with my wife. I mean, lots

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of reasons for people to kill somebody
and dumping in a body of water thinking

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that they destroyed the evidence, thinking
the body may never be discovered, especially

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if it's in the ocean or something. Although generally speaking, unless you go

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out far enough and you weigh it
down, and they tend to get dragged

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back in by the times and wind
up on a beach somewhere. The thing

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is, what would be the difference
between that just sort of happening and maybe

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there's just an increase of murders,
And I mean, there must be some

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other common links here outside of bludgeting
or the fact that it's young men,

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or what are the other common traits
here that make this form a pattern as

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opposed to maybe it's just an increase
in murders and people are just dumping the

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bodies of water. It's a great
question. I think that really what sets

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these apart is the focus on men
coming out of bars, so they're out

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late at night and like they're being
hunted. So I think that that's the

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difference. I do think that this
has been a kind of tactic or technique

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of the mob dumping bodies and water. This goes all the way, that's

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just like you said. But what
sets these apart really is this kind of

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like innocent, non targeted victim and
later to be found later oftentimes not at

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the same time they were disappeared,
like they were abducted, right, So

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like the first title of my first
documentary is who is abducting, torturing and

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murdering college age kids? So there's
some kind of abduction element where these people

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are not found right away. They
just had one guy from Waukegan in between

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kind of like the area actually where
Jeffrey Dahmer kind of applied his trade of

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murder in between Milwaukee and Chicago.
But he was found. He was disappeared

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from Waukegan on Saint Patrick's Day twenty
twenty three, just found thirty three days

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later, like literally within the last
week. His body was found. So

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why is this guy not found right
away? And these are massive searches.

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Shamus Gray was a work he was
part of the navy. He was I

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think a merchant seaman in training.
So there's a massive search for this guy.

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Why isn't he found right away?
And this is the same kind of

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pattern that ties a lot of these
kind of things called the Smiley piece killings

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together, is that they're typically young
people who could swim. Shamus Gray was

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in the navy. He no water. How does he just fall in and

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drowned? It's very unusual, especially
for this guy. I think he was

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twenty one. So this is just
one of many cases. There's probably three

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to four hundred cases. Well,
again, approaching it from the skeptic angle.

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Okay, that girl that I just
brought up, that was murdered in

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Neptune City, they never found her
body. They found all kinds of stuff

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tied to her body, and they
got these guys to confess about dumping her

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off a bridge in Belmar, which, if you're familiar with the area,

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there's an inlet that comes off of
the ocean right and they dumped her off

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a bridge in Belmar, New Jersey, right right outside in Neptune City where

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they murdered her, and they got
them to confess. But quite honestly,

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they never found the body. And
that does happen with bodies of water.

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Now, is there something that appears
to be intentional about the way these bodies

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are being dumped? I brought up
the fact that quite often, if you

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take it out far enough off of
the shore and you dump it and you

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weigh it down, that thing may
never resurface or might get consumed by the

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aquatic life, and if it does
resurface, nobody will recognize it as a

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body. Things like this. Is
there a pattern of well, technique here

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used to weight down the body or
something like that. Or is it just

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that there is a time element where
it appears as though the body wasn't in

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the body of water for a whole
month, but the person had been missing

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for a whole month, right,
I mean, I think that's a good

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question. Some of the information is
not obviously not divulged by the police on

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some of these deaths. For example, they found some bodies in Austin.

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They're calling it the Ladyburg Lake killer
or ripper or the Rainy Street ripper.

208
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So these phenomenons taken on these interesting
names, variant names. I guess they

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just title the serial killing something.
But for example, he was just not

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found in water. He was found
near water. So and just like I

211
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mentioned before, this young man Patrick
McNeil, the injuries to his body were

212
00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:50.840
not disclosed by the police. The
family had to get the autopsy and look

213
00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:54.480
through the autopsy to find out what
happened. So whether these are people are

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drugged. The original investigators can And
and Gilbertson found a high incidence of GHB

215
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in the bodies of the victims they
studied, and they did a very detailed

216
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study, and that was you know, fourteen guys, so like half of

217
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them had had higher levels of GHB, which is endogenous to the body,

218
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means it's already present, but not
in these high doses that they found.

219
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So I think a lot of these
people this is kind of like a drugging.

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00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:20.840
And go back to Jeffrey Dahmer,
and he was very much of a

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drug He was getting drugs to his
victims and people. If you remember that,

222
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he actually got kicked out of right, he was kicked out of the

223
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bath houses and all that stuff when
he was drugging different people. Initially he

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wasn't trying to kill him. He
was just trying to incapacitate him. And

225
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then he had somebody really really needed
medical assistance in one of the bath houses,

226
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and then he got himself banned if
I remember the story, right,

227
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and they sort of were like,
yeah, he's not even welcome in the

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gay underground. Here is there an
element of that going on, because look,

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GHB is typically what I think of
immediately is they called it to date

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rape drug. That was the first
date rape drug I ever heard of.

231
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Rue hypnol is more common nowadays,
I think, but GHB is classically known

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as a date rape rug. Is
it not? Yes, it is,

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and it's there's actually been articles in
Austin that they're calling this the roofy killer,

234
00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:21.279
so people are getting roofied. And
they actually had a victim in twenty

235
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nineteen who was suspected to be a
victim. He woke up in a ditch

236
00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:30.480
and his name was I won't give
this full name, but his name is

237
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Chris, and he didn't remember anything
for sixty hours. So he had been

238
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drinking down in Rainy Street and just
blacked out. And this is actually very

239
00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:41.799
common, and I studied some of
these other cases. There was a gay

240
00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:47.080
killer in London. His name was
Stephen Port and he was drugging people and

241
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was responsible for death. So I
think that these some of these guys are

242
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I think they're gay motivated. I
think that's why some of these victims are

243
00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:57.120
met. This pool of victims is
male not female, so like there's a

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heterosexual killer, I guess, so
the women are the victims. But so

245
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I think that that's what's going on
here. There's a there's a high proportion

246
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of drugging, and that's that's really
what's going on. And I think it's

247
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kind of the perfect crime too,
because a victim, some maybe survive.

248
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They have to actually had another victim
survived recently within the last four months in

249
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:22.200
Boston. Boston and New York City
were the hotspots for this kind of death.

250
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But these people don't remember stuff.
They're really their memories are not good.

251
00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:32.440
So I think if you if somebody
gets drugged and the perpetrator knows they're

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drug they know this person isn't going
to remember facts about the crime. They're

253
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just gonna you know, if they're
not victims, they will just wake up.

254
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And there's actually one of the most
prolific rapists in UK history was in

255
00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:48.319
Manchester and his name was Reynards Sinaga
and they think he raped over one hundred

256
00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:52.599
or two hundred men using kind of
this technique. And what he would do

257
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is he would go out into the
streets at night. He would wait for

258
00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:59.559
the late night. He would wait
for the men to leave the bars at

259
00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:03.880
one they're your two, finding drunk
men or stragglers and invite them back to

260
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the place and then and then drug
them and raped them. Well, they

261
00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:11.039
caught him with that because he had
and a lot of these men didn't know

262
00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.200
they were raped. They caught him
because somebody they caught him on his phone.

263
00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:18.279
He had recorded a lot of stuff. But what if Snaga had had

264
00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:21.759
dead bodies like Jeffrey Dahmer, But
if he had to dispose the bodies.

265
00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:23.200
So some of these people have been
caught, so people say, oh,

266
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these people are committing these crimes,
this phenomenon having been caught. I wouldn't

267
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surmise that actually they have been caught, but maybe not for a serial killing,

268
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right, They've been caught from one
crime or two crimes. So I

269
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think the study of this is really
it really is this modern phenomenon, a

270
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very large bill happening all over the
world. Well, this can become a

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Rosetta stone because quite honestly, if
you have here's what I'm imagining, Okay,

272
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the only way that this starts to
make sense in my mind is if

273
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you have people collaborating on this kind
of thing and the idea of using the

274
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date rape incapacitating drugs, and there's
a shame factor attached to it. There

275
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is a look, if you got
a non homosexual man who has now been

276
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raped, even if he does have
some vague recollection of it, a lot

277
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of times they don't want to report
it, okay, because it's just you

278
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know, who wants to go through
that. Um. And women do the

279
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same thing. Yeah, women do
the same thing. Women do the same

280
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thing. But I'm telling you that
it's a little different for a man because

281
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quite frankly, I mean, at
least in my age group, I know

282
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it would be very different because look, you don't want to cop to the

283
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:36.759
pack that you got yourself in that
position. You really do feel like you

284
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made a mistake here, and you
may have, uh, it may have

285
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been a mistake to be trusting go
go hang out with somebody you didn't know,

286
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uh, this kind of thing,
and you didn't expect this, you

287
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know. Um. And and also
you don't have a great memory of it.

288
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So there's a couple of aspects here. Um. Now this going on,

289
00:19:56.519 --> 00:20:00.559
this is a whole lot more of
a common oc currency. And I

290
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:04.119
think people want to want to ever
admit that this occurs, right, Yes,

291
00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:07.119
I agree, I totally agree.
And it's actually chuck. It's happening

292
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:11.279
a lot, even in LA.
There may not be the death associated,

293
00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:15.240
but there have people who have been
caught roefying you know, clientele, bartenders

294
00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:19.720
and people of bars, roofy people. It's happening often I think it's much

295
00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:25.359
more common in the gay community maybe
than the heterosexual community. But people have

296
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:27.559
to watch their drinks, and women
they are notoriously you know, drink watchers.

297
00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:30.079
They didn't know what can happen to
them. Well, that's the thing

298
00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:33.039
they've had to learn the hard way. You know that somebody who could slip

299
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:37.880
them something. And you also have
if these guys are waiting around for people

300
00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:40.480
to leave late at night, I
mean quite frankly, they might have already

301
00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:45.359
been plied en up with the alcohol
that their inhibitions are down, their judgment

302
00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:49.319
is down. Uh, they're clearly
not you know, thinking very quickly on

303
00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:55.200
their feet, etc. So you
know, you have a much easier prey

304
00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:59.559
if you will. Um. So
I'm and I'm breaking this down all different

305
00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:03.759
ways. Here's the thing that I
think is missing. If there was the

306
00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:10.920
discovery of some sort of communication here
where, and I know that this in

307
00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:17.279
all likelihood very well exists, That
there is a group somewhere that I'm sure

308
00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:22.039
is talking about techniques about how to
pull these kinds of things off. I

309
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.599
guarantee that there is, I mean
every kind of horrible thing you can imagine.

310
00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:29.480
I mean, look, let's just
get blunt and ugly about it.

311
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:33.480
You know that that the pedophiles who
find each other online petterists of all sorts.

312
00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:37.160
We'll sit there and collaborate with one
another. This is how they share

313
00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:42.079
and start trading, you know,
a kittie poort. I mean, this

314
00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:48.319
is what they do. So there's
usually some sort of meeting spot where people

315
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:52.400
do get together. I mean just
like, uh, you know, guys

316
00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:55.799
get together to argue about the ins
and outs of the backstory of Star Wars

317
00:21:55.799 --> 00:22:00.559
figures. Okay, right there,
there are interests points here, and maybe

318
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.359
you can't just you know, walk
out onto the common street corner and find

319
00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:08.559
a friend, all right, And
this is obviously the prave dark part of

320
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:15.599
it. Guaranteed there is somewhere a
forum or a chat room or something where

321
00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:18.160
there might be people commonly sharing.
Look, this is what works. This

322
00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:21.799
is how you can get GHB.
I mean, I would have no idea

323
00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:23.880
how to get ahold of a date
rape drouke right now. I don't know.

324
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:27.119
I have never I mean I could
probably get a hold of any substance

325
00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:30.319
I could think of, you know, if I wanted to get high,

326
00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:33.640
But I have no idea where I
would get a hold of something like that

327
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:37.799
right now, you know, but
there are people that do know, and

328
00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:41.079
how do they know? They were
told by somebody. So what I'm saying

329
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:45.400
is there has to be some level
of communication here, especially if let's just

330
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:51.400
say you have a collaborator or even
a single person working there near Ladybird Lake

331
00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:56.960
and then somebody else working near Chicago. You know, at certain points these

332
00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:00.400
guys might be coming together somewhere,
So there's to be a point of connectivity,

333
00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:04.839
right, agreed? No, I
agreed? Gannon and Duarte. Duarte

334
00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:08.599
was his kind of partner in the
p and the police Department in New York.

335
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:14.920
They did a recent interview probably within
the last four months for Chicago Chicago

336
00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.759
bar Stool. Because everybody in Chicago's
worried about these cases, they're tying it

337
00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:22.000
together, so they invite again and
on, and Gannon said that exact same

338
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:23.839
thing. He has proof. I
don't have proof, but he has proof

339
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:29.799
that these people are communicating on the
Dark Weapon. Well, somebody's got to

340
00:23:29.799 --> 00:23:33.279
bring that out, you know.
I guess that the reason why it hasn't

341
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:37.359
been brought out is because they're really
hoping to catch somebody, and maybe somebody

342
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:42.599
has this information elsewhere who's investigating.
But I'm not so sure because how seriously

343
00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:48.359
do you think the authorities are taking
this? I mean, not publicly serious.

344
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:52.359
They just had a huge denial in
Austin, the head of the police

345
00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:55.799
came out and said there's no correlation. They've done the same thing in Boston,

346
00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:57.920
but Boston's had a huge amount of
cases. That's just a whole show

347
00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:03.279
in itself, the Boston cases.
But I mean, they've had many a

348
00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:07.480
lot of things associated with like gaming
events and things going on at the TDI

349
00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:11.599
Center or whatever downtown Boston, but
they're not publicly doing it. But I

350
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:15.960
know, I know in one specific
case, the guy's name was Dakota James.

351
00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:19.240
The mother had a meeting with somebody
from the Secret Service and the FBI.

352
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:26.799
This was twenty nineteen. I think, so, yeah, so they're

353
00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:29.440
involved. I mean they're saying then. One of my complaints, one of

354
00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:33.240
my critiques of Gannon and Gilbertson is
they're not giving a lot of their information

355
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:37.119
out to the public, and I
think that's unfortunate because their findings aren't there

356
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:41.200
for people to work on and see
connections or maybe somebody's familiar with dark web

357
00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:47.559
or these I've surmised like these kink
sites or fetish sites are things where people

358
00:24:47.559 --> 00:24:49.519
are exchanging information like I know how
to do this and get away with it,

359
00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:52.640
blah blah, know how to get
people into dungeons things like that.

360
00:24:52.720 --> 00:25:00.680
So it is kind of it's unfortunate
that the information isn't being shared. Sometimes

361
00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:03.200
it's just like I have tons of
information, but just the process of Shane,

362
00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:06.119
I'd have to put out a book. I have to put out a

363
00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:08.400
full book because I have so many
cases. Well, you know, as

364
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:12.279
an idea, why hasn't somebody reached
out to others? I mean, I'm

365
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:17.400
very sure that there have been guys
that have been busted doing stuff like this.

366
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:22.519
How about going back over the information
and maybe trying to, you know,

367
00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:26.240
drill down on these guys for resources
and say, look, where did

368
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:30.160
you learn how to get this stuff? I mean, Jeffrey Dahmer was getting

369
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:33.559
stuff from you know, he worked
for what a veterinarian at one point,

370
00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:37.799
right, and he was working in
a pharmacy or something. He got ahold

371
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:41.200
of some of this stuff and he
got veterinary drugs at one point. Uh,

372
00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:44.599
you know that was meant to like, you know, when when you're

373
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:48.680
gonna go new to a dog or
whatever you give him this stuff. I'm

374
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:52.200
pretty sure that's that's fairly accurate for
one of the things he did in order

375
00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:55.480
to get his hands on it.
But he was working from the seat of

376
00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:59.160
his pants. Now, if one
of these other guys was informed by somebody

377
00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:02.880
else and they could track it down, you know, and figure it out,

378
00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:03.759
well, how did you figure out
how to get a hold of your

379
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:07.880
date, rape drugs? How did
you figure out how to victimize people?

380
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:11.000
Because they have busted people doing this, maybe they'll come across the guy who

381
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:15.279
is not just the rapist but the
murderer. I mean, catch them all.

382
00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:18.880
But you know what I'm saying,
why why not? No percent?

383
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:22.000
Though for a perfect example, you
can look up a case. I got

384
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:25.759
to get the name for it.
But it happened in New York City at

385
00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:30.000
the beginning of this year. Four
guys, all Latino guys, were trolling

386
00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:34.240
the gay bars and drugging dudes and
stealing their stuff. So they were doing

387
00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:37.279
so that's what they got caught for
them, right. I don't know what

388
00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:41.319
else happened or if they were I
don't even know if the purpose were part

389
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.720
of the gay community. But that
was their target. So they were working

390
00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:51.359
as a team to carry out these
these stuffs and you know, felonies.

391
00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:53.039
I have to find the case.
But it is interesting. So that's what

392
00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:56.519
people get busted for. Just like
I said, like what if they were

393
00:26:56.519 --> 00:27:00.000
involved in murder? Just like you
said, right, yeah, right,

394
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:03.400
I have to ask those questions.
Well, and that's the other thing is

395
00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:07.680
that actually digging into one thing can
lead you to another. What you bring

396
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:11.720
up there with the with the four
Latino guys. I remember a situation again

397
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:15.559
when I was younger in Asbury Park
in New Jersey. Again, uh,

398
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:19.079
there was there was a fairly well
known gay spot there, and quite frankly,

399
00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:25.599
there were guys that were working it
and robbing the gay guys, and

400
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:27.160
there was a whole thing about you
know, well, gee, does this

401
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:30.519
guy even want to go because maybe
he was not out of the closet yet,

402
00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:33.400
does he even want to go to
the police and tell him, yeah,

403
00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.279
I got robbed right outside of the
gay bar. Well what were you

404
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:40.920
doing there? Um? You know, And that went on for a while.

405
00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:44.960
They didn't catch those guys for a
couple of years because even though they

406
00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:48.319
had, you know, clearly stuff
had turned up, even stuff turned up

407
00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:51.799
in pawn shops and all this kind
of stuff that was clearly you know,

408
00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:55.359
the it was flagged, and you
know, they did the right thing and

409
00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:59.359
contacted the police. Hey i've got
this thing that you having alert out on

410
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:03.440
so on and so forth. But
it was a lengthy problem trying to get

411
00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:06.200
hold of these guys. Now,
there's no telling if they didn't have a

412
00:28:06.279 --> 00:28:10.200
robbery go wrong, they killed somebody, or maybe they escalated. I mean,

413
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:14.240
it's always possible. But again,
where did the idea come from?

414
00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:17.920
Right? If they just you know, dreat this up by themselves smoking a

415
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:22.039
joint one day, okay, that's
one thing. But if they were trying

416
00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:25.400
to like come up with let's figure
out a good you know, a good

417
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:27.880
crime way of to start, and
they go on the internet and somebody gives

418
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:33.279
them the blueprints, well you might
be leading into something else here where guy's

419
00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:34.759
like, yeah, I know this
works because I've done it, and maybe

420
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:38.680
that's the guy you want, or
maybe he's informed another guy who, instead

421
00:28:38.680 --> 00:28:42.680
of you know, just stealing watches
and stuff, has decided, you know

422
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:47.720
what I'm gonna get I'm gonna get
my rocks off doing this is what I'm

423
00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:51.160
gonna do instead of stealing this stuff, and you know, maybe I'll steal

424
00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:53.839
this stuff once in a while make
it look different. But truthfully, you

425
00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:57.759
know they're going after a different target, right, you know, and you

426
00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:00.640
would hire the article. This is
just April first, twenty twenty three.

427
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:03.680
This is not an April Fools joke, says New York City police. On

428
00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:07.480
Saturday identified a trio of suspects in
the killings of two men who were drugged

429
00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:11.960
and robbed last year after visiting gay
bars in the Hell's Kitchen neighborhood. Authorities

430
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:18.000
posted photos of the suspects, identified
as Jaquan Hamilton, Robert Demio, Jacob

431
00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:22.519
Barroso, John Umbuger thirty three,
and Julio Ramirez twenty five, were killed

432
00:29:22.519 --> 00:29:26.359
in two separate incidents in spring of
last year. Both were seeing leaving bars

433
00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:30.720
with unidentified individuals before thousands of dollars
were withdrawn from their bank accounts via facial

434
00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:34.519
recognition on their phones. New York
City Police said there could be as many

435
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:41.000
as seventeen connected cases. Now,
seventeen cases, I mean, that's definitely

436
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:47.640
qualifies as a serial criminal thing going
on. Not necessarily all murders, but

437
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:52.039
maybe Again, like I said,
there are robberies at went Sideways, which

438
00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:53.920
happens. Okay, you didn't intend
to murder somebody, but that's what ended

439
00:29:55.000 --> 00:30:00.720
up going on because they fought back
or whatever. So there's a wide variety

440
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:03.119
of things. So again I want
to get back to this though, because

441
00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:07.480
if you have a circumstance now in
this case, you don't have guys being

442
00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:12.119
dumped in bodies of water and being
discovered later and tortured in hell do you?

443
00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:18.680
I mean, as far as what
we know about this right for what's

444
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:22.720
come out. But see that's another
thing is do we know that there are

445
00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:27.000
not more of these things happening because
they're just simply not being reported And I

446
00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:30.799
don't mean reported to the police or
whatever. I do mean just you know,

447
00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:33.319
being reported by the media in general. See, here's where the media,

448
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:38.319
local or otherwise can play a role
in making people aware. Like you

449
00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:42.079
know, let's go back to some
classic stuff. Uh, you know what

450
00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:45.240
happened with the Son of Sam.
A panic came up with the Son of

451
00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:51.960
Sam. And realistically, not that
many victims there. We're not talking about

452
00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:55.119
you know, huge numbers here.
This was not Ted Bundy, but he

453
00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:59.039
did shoot a few people. Now, we could say that that was connected

454
00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:02.400
to a lot of other stuff,
and I'm not fully satisfied that it was

455
00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:07.240
the massive you know, the Morey
Terry store to story. I'm not sure

456
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:11.880
that he's one hundred percent correct,
but I do believe there's something there.

457
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:17.000
There's some there there right regarding the
connectivity, and I could be totally wrong

458
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:18.920
about it, But these are the
things that you got to consider. Is

459
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:25.079
when you see a massive, successful
action where people are not immediately busted,

460
00:31:25.079 --> 00:31:30.599
where they certainly have a mode of
operation that they have developed somehow, Okay,

461
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:33.960
it usually means that there were other
crimes that led up to it.

462
00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:37.119
Like I said, Jeffrey Dahmer initially
not killing and eating his victims. He

463
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:44.359
was just drugging them, right and
having sex with them or being sexual with

464
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:48.880
them whatever, depending on how you
read the reports. Okay, but eventually

465
00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:52.880
it escalated. And there's another element
there. If you have people working in

466
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:56.839
concert with one another, though,
then there's no reason for the grooming and

467
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:02.039
the training process. They have them
of operation, they have the techniques in

468
00:32:02.119 --> 00:32:07.400
hand, they know where to get
the drugs. Yeah, like you said,

469
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:10.400
you've got almost a perfect crime here, because again, if the victim

470
00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:15.359
survives, they can't really report much
even if they try. And if they

471
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:19.480
don't survive, you got a body. The dead men don't speak. Of

472
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:22.960
course, you now have to look
for what went on. So the high

473
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:28.640
levels of drugs and the torture that, let's not let that go because as

474
00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:34.559
common as it seems in true crime
discussions, torture and murder are not necessarily

475
00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:38.240
always connected. Usually a murder,
somebody gets right to the point and it's

476
00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:43.200
done. Again that case I was
talking about in Neptune City, right,

477
00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:45.640
I mean, they didn't torture the
girl. They just smashed her in the

478
00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:50.039
head and she was dead. Well, they smashed her in the head and

479
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:52.839
then strangled her. But anyway,
it was because the smash in the head

480
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:57.480
didn't work, and that was that
they didn't hold her for various days trying

481
00:32:57.480 --> 00:33:00.680
to you know, get things out
of her in this and that they got

482
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:06.839
right to the point. Now,
that is typical in murder cases, right,

483
00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:07.920
I mean, you just kind of
go right for it. That's the

484
00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:14.119
way it goes. So when you
have the torture element here and the sexual

485
00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:20.640
sadism or just sexual assault element,
these are kind of unique to put together.

486
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:23.279
They're not as common, right,
I mean, sexual assaults common,

487
00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:30.039
but sexual assault combined with torture and
then murder not as common. So these

488
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:34.720
three factors coming together and then having
them dumped in bodies of water. Again,

489
00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:37.599
do we know anything about the time
difference? I mean, are they

490
00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:42.079
dumped in the body of water and
discovered later after dumping or do we see

491
00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:45.240
that maybe they were dumped after being
held for a long time. Well,

492
00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:49.079
that's a good question. I think
there's variance, but some are clearly they

493
00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:52.000
have to be held for a long
time because the bodies aren't in bad shape.

494
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:55.839
They're not they haven't decomposed. And
a perfect example of that is Dakota

495
00:33:55.960 --> 00:34:00.480
James out of Pittsburgh. But it's
hard to say because a lot of that

496
00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:05.960
information hasn't come out to the public. It's like police information. It's hard

497
00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:07.800
to get the police to tell you
the truth about anything, at least that's

498
00:34:07.840 --> 00:34:12.639
what my experience is. So,
but the time difference, like you can

499
00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:17.119
just go to your standard kind of
criminologist and ask how long a body decomposes

500
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:22.119
and waters and floats and comes to
the surface, and it's not that long.

501
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:28.000
I mean, that's dependent upon a
variety of factor's son eatw whether the

502
00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:30.400
water is cooled. But somebodys are
clearly missing for a long period of time.

503
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:34.559
They should have been seen right the
time the found. And some people

504
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:37.079
aren't being looked, and some of
the others they're being looked in great detailed.

505
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:42.760
There's an incredible case in Many Young
PA about a kid by the name

506
00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:46.320
of Montgomery, Shane Montgomery, where
he was found in three feet of water

507
00:34:46.360 --> 00:34:51.159
that had already been checked. They've
been systematically checked by the police, like

508
00:34:51.320 --> 00:34:53.920
literal, you know, underground.
They found his keys, but they didn't

509
00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:57.960
find his body, and then his
body turned up there. Look up the

510
00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:01.239
Shane Montgomery story. It's incredible.
So there there's a lot of variants in

511
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:07.360
Some of these cases are obvious,
like murders. Some are not as obvious,

512
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:09.400
but some are very obvious, like
these are people who shouldn't. I

513
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:15.400
mean, it's weird that people think
that these guys are so drunk they would

514
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:17.719
fall in water and fall and like
not be able to get up, but

515
00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:21.440
they're able to make it to the
water. So like there's a lot of

516
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:24.159
like stories about oh, they're just
going to the water and paint going to

517
00:35:24.199 --> 00:35:28.719
the bathroom and then they fall in. So but they're able to get up

518
00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:30.559
and get you know, stand up, but they can't stand up in the

519
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:34.519
battle of a body of water or
swim out or anything like that. They

520
00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:37.360
suddenly just go unconscious or go into
shock. Yes, these are like the

521
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:42.440
drowning rationale is very suspect. Well, it's very weird because look, if

522
00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:45.880
you have rapids, if you have
a really strong you know, flow to

523
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:51.440
a stream, I get it,
because if you're intoxicated, it is a

524
00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:54.280
little difficult to breathe. If you're
fully intoxicated, it is you know,

525
00:35:54.360 --> 00:36:00.119
you don't have your coordination necessarily together, and fighting against rapids is hard,

526
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:04.119
which is why I understood when some
people did get drunk and drowned in the

527
00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:07.639
ocean. Again I'm from Jersey,
right, it did happen, um And

528
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:12.960
it would be difficult to know if
somebody had been bludgeoned before they went into

529
00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:15.480
the water, or if they bashed
their head on a jetty this kind of

530
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:20.199
thing. Uh, So you would
think that, you know, occasionally this

531
00:36:20.199 --> 00:36:23.880
this does really happen. But when
you've got bodies of water where you don't

532
00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:31.239
have a strong current, um,
this gets well, see that that is

533
00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:35.079
what I was going to bring up, is that you got these three locations

534
00:36:35.079 --> 00:36:37.280
that you brought I mean three main
locations that you mentioned so far. You

535
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:42.559
have the Pennsylvania area. You have
the Illinois area. Okay, you talked

536
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:45.360
about you know, between Milwaukee and
Chicago. It's not that big of a

537
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:51.480
jump. But then we go to
Texas. These are fairly well separated,

538
00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:57.119
uh regions. Right. The bodies
of water are not connected very well.

539
00:36:57.679 --> 00:36:59.599
Uh. You're not gonna find,
like, you know, a stream that

540
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:02.559
goes from one place to another,
or in the instance of say, dumping

541
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:07.639
a body in New Jersey and then
it turns up on the shore and I

542
00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:10.800
don't know Maryland, it's a possibility
that a body could get taken there and

543
00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:15.440
dropped off somewhere else, right,
because you have the tides coming in and

544
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:20.239
out. But when you have a
circumstance here where they're ending up in these

545
00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:23.880
still bodies of water, drunkenness does
not make sense to me as to how

546
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:28.000
they could have drowned really easily,
at least not at that age. Again,

547
00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:30.800
if you're somebody who had trouble breathing
to begin with, and then you

548
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:38.639
drink your your respirations a little off
anyway. Clearly your hand eye coordination is

549
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:42.119
bad. You're gonna have a little
trouble swimming. Maybe not as good.

550
00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:45.239
I could get that. And if
you lose a fight with the ocean or

551
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:49.840
roaring rapids, it makes a lot
more sense. But again, Ladybird Lake,

552
00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:52.239
like you said, is a pond. And my understanding about this Chicago

553
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:59.239
area is that they're not exactly finding
them in areas where it appears as though

554
00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:01.679
they've been dragged along, you know, through the stream quite a while.

555
00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:06.840
It just that's just where they were
Or am I misreading that? No,

556
00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:08.119
you're right, I mean, and
that's kind of the way it is.

557
00:38:08.199 --> 00:38:13.679
They're not in that bad of shape
they're in. They're literally in ponds.

558
00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:16.679
Like there was one min Chi Yang
in twenty twenty two was found in a

559
00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:22.559
pond at the university kind of outside
of Chicago, about thirty thirty miles but

560
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:27.400
like literal pond. Like it's incredible
they had a jewel or Dono was found

561
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:30.880
just March sixteenth, twenty twenty three
in a lake. And this area where

562
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:35.320
Shameless was found was like in a
place like a huge dock area, right,

563
00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:37.480
so you can just pop back in
the dock it wasn't like some rapids

564
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:43.480
like you said. So these are
very suspect, very suspect cases where these

565
00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:50.039
guys are supposedly uh, you know, incapacitated or whatever. But here's the

566
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:53.079
families are very suspicious. If you
ever go on record and say, hey,

567
00:38:53.239 --> 00:38:57.960
there's something suspicious about my family member's
death. He was either healthy like

568
00:38:58.039 --> 00:39:01.880
there was a one kid out of
Austin like twenty eighteen marchin Gutier. Is

569
00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:07.079
he's a healthy like he's a total
athlete. There's no way that this guy's

570
00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:10.079
gonna fall in water and have some
path you know, panic attack and suddenly

571
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:14.599
drowned. And a lot of these
the family go these guys aren't even drinkers,

572
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:15.719
you know, when they have two
beers, you know, they're not

573
00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:20.559
big drinkers. So the assumption is
that these guys are all like freaking out

574
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:23.079
hardcore alcoholics. And then the family
goes, yeah, he didn't like to

575
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:25.400
drink very much, but he'd like
to go out, you know those type

576
00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:29.599
of people. Well, and that
is the thing too. But but here's

577
00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:32.079
the deal is, you know,
one two beers doesn't affect too many people

578
00:39:32.119 --> 00:39:37.960
too badly, but you had GHB
in there and it doesn't take even the

579
00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:40.199
beer, right, you don't have
even you look at some of these characters.

580
00:39:40.239 --> 00:39:44.280
You look at these guys, they're
out of character. They're acting strength

581
00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:46.840
to get kicked out of bars like
that's something that may have never happened and

582
00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:51.280
wasn't like a constant thing where they
go to a bar and get kicked out

583
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:53.800
a lot of people think that that's
why they have got this personality change is

584
00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:59.000
taken over because they're drugged. Well, that starts to make sense. So

585
00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:01.960
let me ask you how it is. This has now been going on for

586
00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:07.679
depending on who you talk to,
anywhere from one decade to three decades.

587
00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:13.079
Now where the discovery of these bodies, it keeps happening. These guys are

588
00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:15.880
disappearing. It's young men, um. You know, I'm told that most

589
00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:20.760
of them are fairly attractive also,
and all this kind of thing. They

590
00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:28.920
sort of fit, but they don't
fit a racial profile exactly. That's things

591
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:30.960
to almost all be wipe it.
It seems like now it's just across the

592
00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:36.760
whole spectrum. Yeah, the original
Indians, African Americans, right, the

593
00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:39.559
original cases and again you know Jeffrey
Dahmer, I mean, typically it was

594
00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:44.159
it was black, guys. That's
just the way it was. But uh,

595
00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:49.280
generally speaking, when you have a
serial hunter of people for whatever purpose,

596
00:40:49.719 --> 00:40:52.239
they do kind of choose an ethnicity, a type, if you will.

597
00:40:52.320 --> 00:41:00.280
Right, But that changed, which
is very strange. And now there's

598
00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:04.599
this new interest after all this time. Where did the new interest come from?

599
00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:07.599
Exactly? What do you think?
Because you know, I'd like to

600
00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:10.760
say it was you and the fact
that you keep talking about it, and

601
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:14.960
the fact that ROBERTA. Glass is
talking about it, and maybe you guys

602
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:16.840
finally got through to people. But
I don't know. Something else seems to

603
00:41:16.840 --> 00:41:19.960
have happened. Tell me about it. That wasn't it? It was because

604
00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:22.360
all these bodies are piling them.
There's bodies piling up in Austin and Chicago.

605
00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:28.480
You've got in Austin you have Jonathan
Honey, Cliff Axtell, John Case

606
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:34.239
Clark was was found ten days ago, and Joelji Rouster. These are all

607
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:37.840
this year, Jason Jason John.
So all these people are going, hey,

608
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:40.440
this is a pattern. It's just
simple pattern recognition. Same thing in

609
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:44.800
the Chicago, all these ones.
Shamus Gray, the fact that he was

610
00:41:44.840 --> 00:41:49.039
missing for thirty three days is very
suspicious. Well, Is it because it's

611
00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:52.440
so what you're saying, is it's
because it's become more frequent. Yes,

612
00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:55.000
it's frequent, and people are noticing
it on social media. They have a

613
00:41:55.119 --> 00:42:00.360
they have now on Facebook a page
called the Lady Bird Killer, you know

614
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:06.159
Facebook page for with the eighty thousand
followers. So that's huge. I mean,

615
00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:08.360
that's fairly good sized. That was
nothing like what was going on when

616
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:12.559
I was on Facebook researching this,
Like there were smaller, smaller face killer

617
00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:15.039
pages and the researchers all kind of
knew each other. But yeah, I

618
00:42:15.159 --> 00:42:19.639
just was broad interesting to go again. Some of these other new platforms as

619
00:42:19.639 --> 00:42:24.239
well. There's TikTokers. There's one
guy in Chicago who's covering the Chicago cases

620
00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:30.000
who has a million followers. He
was unknown before he started covering the Chicago

621
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:32.239
death cases, right, so he's
looking around and you know, so it's

622
00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:37.199
like a whole new host of people
seeing the big picture of recognizing these things,

623
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:40.800
just finally getting around to it.
Okay, Yeah, there was a

624
00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:45.920
CIA agent on TikTok saying, yeah, I believe there's a serial killer in

625
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:47.760
Chicago. I can't remember what show
it was, but it was kind of

626
00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:52.199
like one of these new internet new
shows. But she flat out said it,

627
00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:54.039
and I included it. You can
go to my podcast, or you

628
00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:58.280
can go to Rockman and watch all
the recent shows I've done. I've done

629
00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:01.199
probably five shows on all the cases. You can watch some of the videos

630
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:05.760
that I've included there, or just
listen to it on William Ramsey Investigates,

631
00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:08.719
Right, and tell people again how
they can see that first documentary because I

632
00:43:09.280 --> 00:43:15.840
know it was it was on Vimeo
or something at one point. Yell William

633
00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:20.519
Ramsey, you can just go smiley
Face. But you can just type that

634
00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:22.599
into Vimeo. Yeah, I think
I can link to you. I can

635
00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:24.559
send you a link. You can
put it in the show notes. Yeah,

636
00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:28.679
send me the link. But I
think if you guys, interesting interesting

637
00:43:28.719 --> 00:43:31.800
thing, uh, Chuck, is
I can see kind of where the location

638
00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:37.039
of people watching my videos is from. And the number one location where people

639
00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:43.320
are watching the Smiley Face video is
Austin, Texas. Oh so maybe that's

640
00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:45.519
it, you know, locally,
maybe it starts as a local thing and

641
00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:51.960
that's how Facebook page gets started,
right, And so it's it's the newer

642
00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:54.840
version of what happened there in New
York with the newspapers and everybody's starting to

643
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:57.880
talk about it, you know,
like I said with the Son of Sam

644
00:43:57.960 --> 00:44:00.920
deal Um, you know, all
of a sudden, it was like women

645
00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:02.480
were cutting their hair and all this
other stuff. Yeah, caused a panic,

646
00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:07.960
but it was because people were actually
talking about it and it was becoming

647
00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:12.239
this, uh, this conversation point
that everybody had in New York. So

648
00:44:12.280 --> 00:44:15.480
what you're saying is finally people have
gotten to get together, maybe locally a

649
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:19.800
little bit paid attention to something that's
happening near them, and then it's growing

650
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:23.239
from there through social media. Maybe
no doubt. Okay, I think that's

651
00:44:23.239 --> 00:44:27.960
exactly what's happened. Yeah, sorry
again, you know, I didn't plan

652
00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:30.239
any of this out with William by
the way, just for you guys,

653
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:34.920
it's I'm really just questioning this as
I go along because I find it curious.

654
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:39.400
And again I found an interesting that
now not really the mainstream, but

655
00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:44.480
some of that, you know,
like the newer sort of corporate media that's

656
00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:46.760
come out, Like I'm almost willing
to bet the Newsmax is going to cover

657
00:44:46.840 --> 00:44:51.119
this at some point. Uh,
you know, in those kind of channels

658
00:44:51.519 --> 00:44:55.159
that are kind of emerging and jockeying
for position. Now in the in the

659
00:44:55.159 --> 00:45:00.000
ever shifting weird media landscape out there. I'm very sure that some of them

660
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:02.719
are gonna I think they did it. They did a local spot. There

661
00:45:02.760 --> 00:45:07.719
was a local spot on like Talk
to It radio in Austin. Also info

662
00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:10.679
Wars, which is located in Austin, had a segment on the recent desks

663
00:45:10.679 --> 00:45:15.039
in Austin. So people are covering
it. I don't know if they've seen

664
00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:20.679
the big wider picture, but they're
definitely white, I mean, very interested

665
00:45:20.679 --> 00:45:22.800
in Chicago and Austin. But there's
been other cases. Houston had three cases

666
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:28.519
in the last twelve months. Minneapolis, Iowa City had a guy found a

667
00:45:28.599 --> 00:45:32.159
week ago, Christian Martinez. There's
a kid still missing in Pittsburgh, Brandon

668
00:45:32.199 --> 00:45:37.880
Phipford Davis. There's like a weird
tie in with the uh Co burger.

669
00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:42.079
You remember that guy who killed three
people in Moscow, Ida, Oh yeah,

670
00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:44.639
that guy right there was a there
was a guy found like a smoty

671
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:47.400
face killing type murder, found literally
a rocks throw from that house. His

672
00:45:47.519 --> 00:45:52.480
name was Hudson Lindau. Really really
yeah. See that's a whole weird case

673
00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:58.000
in and of itself. You know, look, there has to be a

674
00:45:58.039 --> 00:46:00.800
stalking element here. See that's another
of the thing is that people are under

675
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:05.920
this impression that stalkers are easily caught
now because everything's you know, electronic,

676
00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:08.920
and oh well they know where your
phone is. But you know people that

677
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:14.679
are well aware of that maybe or
thinking around and outside of the box here,

678
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:20.599
you know, not necessarily. Can
you see burgers driving habits on the

679
00:46:20.719 --> 00:46:23.440
night of those murders. He took
the most roundabout way like an hour home.

680
00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:25.840
He could have driven like ten miles. He was trying. He was

681
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:31.480
stalking or cruising or doing something.
He was just covering territory. Very strange

682
00:46:32.079 --> 00:46:36.559
like, very thought out like he
was. He was I'm surprised that that

683
00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:39.760
the whole crime went down, but
like people think he's involved in other stuff.

684
00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:44.199
He might have been involved in the
Hudson lind Down person death. Well.

685
00:46:44.199 --> 00:46:46.679
But see there it is is,
Look, if they don't mind these

686
00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:51.239
guys, if they don't, you
know, interrogate them, and I mean

687
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:53.280
they're not going to do it,
you know in the in the old school,

688
00:46:53.320 --> 00:46:57.239
you know, crazy good cop bad
cops sort of way. But I

689
00:46:57.280 --> 00:47:00.599
mean, quite honestly, if they
don't you utilize some these guys as resources.

690
00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:04.920
Somebody who clearly planned things out and
did this and also had some other

691
00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:08.000
strange behaviors. I mean, I'm
almost willing to bet that. Yeah,

692
00:47:08.039 --> 00:47:12.719
the ideas, they're all supposed to
be loaners and all this, but at

693
00:47:12.760 --> 00:47:16.719
some point there was connectivity there,
right, at some point somebody informed this

694
00:47:16.760 --> 00:47:20.800
guy and you know, he might
have been self taught that one. But

695
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:23.119
I'm telling you there's got to be
some element here that and I don't know

696
00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:27.719
how to articulate it, but there's
got to be a point of connection.

697
00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:30.599
If you have people that are acting
in concert with one another, which you

698
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:36.760
described it as a series of cells, you know what leads you to believe

699
00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:38.679
that exactly? Like, how would
you Okay, I'm just gonna again play

700
00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:43.719
the skeptic, I don't believe you. William Ramsey explained to me why it

701
00:47:43.800 --> 00:47:46.880
is you believe this would be cells
as opposed to I don't know a couple

702
00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:51.920
of independent operators who are just say
it's three guys. We had three locations

703
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:54.639
earlier. Three guys are together in
a chat room. Maybe it's just their

704
00:47:54.679 --> 00:48:00.280
little click and they've decided to do
this together. Why are you saying three

705
00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:07.199
or because it's happening independently, so
different geographical cosmopolitan areas are it's happening,

706
00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:13.079
So the overlap would be strange for
somebody to be operating in Austin and Chicago.

707
00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:15.840
And I think that these murders are
not caused by one person. I

708
00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:20.719
think it has to be at least
at two or three. And the reason

709
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:22.760
I say that is because a lot
of these other killers worked with other people.

710
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:29.079
If you look at some of these
other craft or there's another guy either

711
00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:32.320
from the Midwest, people who've researched
those guys says they couldn't have done it

712
00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:36.840
alone. They were handling bodies.
There's body handling and things like that.

713
00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:39.320
So I think there's interesting if you
look at some of these weird groups.

714
00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:43.559
I've looked into this guy out of
Michigan, his name was Katunski. He

715
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:46.480
had this kind of weird werewolf group
online where they would, you know,

716
00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:52.840
kind of almost like the Pizza Gate
stuff, where they had inside inside statements

717
00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:55.440
like yeah, we go out at
night, we're wolves. Yeah, hill

718
00:48:55.519 --> 00:48:59.599
at the moon, you know,
hey we go hunting, but watch out

719
00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:02.440
for us. So I think that
those kinds of groups do exist. And

720
00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:07.280
so I think that that for those
like you said, there's some kind of

721
00:49:07.320 --> 00:49:10.320
place online for those people with this
type of interest, and if you look.

722
00:49:10.360 --> 00:49:15.760
I mean I included this show Kink
in my first documentary. What that

723
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:20.679
was was like a hardcore BDSM place, but people would come in from all

724
00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:25.559
over the world to stream these things
and pay large sums of money. So

725
00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:30.199
maybe something like that's going on.
And so so anyway, to go back

726
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:34.199
to your point, I do think
it's different cells. Different people have some

727
00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:38.719
form of communication with the dark web
and may even be doing like you said,

728
00:49:38.719 --> 00:49:43.920
those pedophiles are sharing pictures of kitty
porn. Maybe these guys are sharing

729
00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:49.360
their films. Yeah, I mean, because that's still a business. By

730
00:49:49.400 --> 00:49:52.000
the way, is you know they
I know, nobody ever talks about it

731
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:55.599
at all anymore, but snuff films
are still a thing. Um, you

732
00:49:55.679 --> 00:50:00.320
know, I know, we all
know the stories from the seventies and eighties

733
00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:02.760
and stuff about you know, you
get taken in a place in a you

734
00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:07.960
know, in a van with no
windows and and all that, and that's

735
00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:09.719
how you can get invited. I
mean, it's a common urban discussion.

736
00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:13.519
Not saying it's a myth, but
I am saying that there were a lot

737
00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:15.079
of people that talk about it that
just have heard it, second, third,

738
00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:19.119
fourth hand. Um, one of
the statements you mentioned the Son of

739
00:50:19.159 --> 00:50:22.239
Sam, they said that one of
the Son of Sam killings was recorded,

740
00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:27.840
right, and more than one person
has brought that up. Then maybe there's

741
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:30.480
a film of some of that stuff. And that's another weird thing is that

742
00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:35.679
quite often there there is an accomplice
mentioned. I'll give you the most famous

743
00:50:35.679 --> 00:50:38.559
one is that a lot of people
think that Dennis Rader did not act alone,

744
00:50:39.159 --> 00:50:44.559
right, the BTK killer. I'm
sure you've heard that, right,

745
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:47.320
I have not heard that. Oh, okay, well, but it's kind

746
00:50:47.320 --> 00:50:50.960
of like the same thing, right, there were four people, so how

747
00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:53.719
did you subjugate that whole family?
Right? Yeah, Well, but there's

748
00:50:53.719 --> 00:50:58.119
always a lot of odd things like
this where it's like, hey, there

749
00:50:58.159 --> 00:51:01.199
may have been an accomplice, And
it's funny that a lot of the accomplices

750
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:06.079
are never caught. They get the
main guy and that's that. And then

751
00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:10.000
of course you have the weird,
the weird world of oh Henry Lee Lucas

752
00:51:10.239 --> 00:51:15.519
right who you know, Hodest too, honest tool and all that I mean,

753
00:51:15.559 --> 00:51:20.599
And clearly they collaborated on some stuff. Now did he exaggerate and add

754
00:51:20.599 --> 00:51:23.639
to it, I think so.
But did he actually do a bunch of

755
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:28.480
things? Yeah, we know he
did. Um but but anyway, what

756
00:51:28.519 --> 00:51:30.760
I'm saying is that I'm not saying
that these guys are all reliable by the

757
00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:35.480
way when captured as far as their
information goes. But some of them might

758
00:51:35.519 --> 00:51:38.199
be, uh and they might offer
some information and somebody might be able to

759
00:51:38.239 --> 00:51:43.519
sift through that and come up with
you know, there could be ultimately a

760
00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:46.280
whole secret network somewhere. Again,
the dark web is the easiest place to

761
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:52.400
mention, but there's other ways,
you know. Uh So anyways, um

762
00:51:52.440 --> 00:51:55.199
but but that's the time. But
yeah, I think that there's groups of

763
00:51:55.199 --> 00:52:00.559
people. And one of the interesting
case cases is this one Joey, because

764
00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:05.440
he died when the Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic
came into town. So it's the biggest

765
00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:09.679
body building exposition in the world.
So you have all these people from all

766
00:52:09.679 --> 00:52:14.719
over the world come in and he
just suspiciously disappears. And these are all

767
00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:19.280
dudes on roids and they're supposed to
be like a supposedly a kind of gay

768
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:23.400
element to the body building yea,
So I mean it makes sense for I

769
00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:28.119
mean, you think of the perfect
crime is to kind of go to a

770
00:52:28.119 --> 00:52:31.320
place nobody knows, you commit the
crime and leave. Well, there's that,

771
00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:35.840
and then there's also a guy who's
working locally who says to himself,

772
00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:38.000
look, there's gonna be a lot
of strangers around it. It'll be impossible

773
00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:42.360
for them to track things down,
so somebody could use it as a cover.

774
00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:45.719
I was just going to mention that
thing about Boston, which, by

775
00:52:45.719 --> 00:52:51.159
the way, it seems to be
increasingly a nexus point of all sorts of

776
00:52:51.199 --> 00:52:55.599
bizarre and murderous activity. And I
don't mean organized crime or you know,

777
00:52:55.679 --> 00:53:00.559
typical grudge type stuff or gang killings. I mean there's something very weird going

778
00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:06.119
on. And now they're going to
have a Satanist convention there too. I

779
00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:10.679
just read you saw that, right, you know. And look, if

780
00:53:10.719 --> 00:53:14.119
you were to go ahead and commit
a couple of murders and be a little

781
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:17.440
sloppy about it during the Satanist convention, you'll have people running in eighty different

782
00:53:17.480 --> 00:53:22.000
directions, you know, whether you
came into town for it or you live

783
00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:27.599
there already. So there's that in
play as well. Has there been any

784
00:53:27.639 --> 00:53:32.119
correlation about different events coming in because
look, Austin and Chicago are two great

785
00:53:32.119 --> 00:53:37.360
places for people to come in from
out of town. You know what what

786
00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:43.079
about that beca one of the recent
victims was at a bachelor party, and

787
00:53:43.159 --> 00:53:45.880
so there's been other deaths kind of
one one arguably was a drug relate to

788
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:51.000
death, but bachelor parties but Austin. Yeah, it's a place where people

789
00:53:51.039 --> 00:53:53.800
to go party. And it is
interesting that these are kind of like blue

790
00:53:54.000 --> 00:54:00.400
urban areas where these kind of things
are happening too, which this is a

791
00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:04.960
strange correlation, but you know,
there's always like there's been other kids.

792
00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:08.960
One was that like a model you
win in Chicago left his hotel disappeared.

793
00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:15.320
Another guy's business trip in Boston it's
found under the pier like two months later.

794
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:19.840
Just really crazy stuff. So it
may not even just be the people

795
00:54:19.840 --> 00:54:22.519
are coming from out of town.
The murderers are coming out of from out

796
00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:23.719
of town as well. Or yeah, it could be a little bit of

797
00:54:23.719 --> 00:54:27.199
column A, a little bit of
Colin b though, because I mean,

798
00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:30.280
it's just very strange. And the
other odd thing to mention here is that

799
00:54:30.679 --> 00:54:35.960
a consistency among the victims appears to
be. Now, look, a lot

800
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:39.400
of families, especially after somebody dies, you know, they elevate their morality,

801
00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:42.159
all of a sudden, they become
a saint, you know what I

802
00:54:42.199 --> 00:54:45.239
mean. And I'm not saying that
all these families are doing that, not

803
00:54:45.320 --> 00:54:49.599
at all. I'm not trying to
smear anybody. But what I am saying

804
00:54:49.719 --> 00:54:53.000
is that consistently, though I don't
see a lot of well, you know,

805
00:54:53.159 --> 00:54:58.320
this guy was out there risk taking
and being involved with a lot of

806
00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:02.000
partying, Like these are not like
known party animals that seem to be the

807
00:55:02.079 --> 00:55:07.639
victims unless I'm misreading it or it
doesn't seem like that, like if there's

808
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:12.400
a lot of videos online of the
family members telling stories like they're not big

809
00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:19.400
drinkers, they are athletes, you
know. So it's the cut across,

810
00:55:19.519 --> 00:55:24.119
isn't. It's not like it's the
hard drinking, partying frat type all the

811
00:55:24.159 --> 00:55:29.880
time. It did more most recently, maybe originally, but like there's almost

812
00:55:29.880 --> 00:55:34.320
no frat member like that kind of
thing happening now. It's almost like middle

813
00:55:34.360 --> 00:55:40.920
aged kind of you know, upwardly
mobile yuppie types. It's weird. No,

814
00:55:42.039 --> 00:55:45.400
it is very weird, and if
it's evolving, then you know,

815
00:55:45.440 --> 00:55:49.360
it could be something that's growing.
That's another thing too, is that you

816
00:55:49.400 --> 00:55:52.679
know, once you get a successful
little bit of cult activity going on where

817
00:55:52.679 --> 00:55:57.039
you have a high control group.
You mentioned that guy who's Awarewolf. Now

818
00:55:57.079 --> 00:55:59.719
I know there's a couple of groups
like that out there, and a couple

819
00:55:59.719 --> 00:56:01.320
of these like you know, vampire
clubs of sorts, right, yes,

820
00:56:01.599 --> 00:56:05.840
where they have you know, a
high exalted one at the top. And

821
00:56:06.440 --> 00:56:09.239
it's on one level it's kind of
a goofy, you know, cosplay sort

822
00:56:09.239 --> 00:56:13.840
of thing, but on another level
it gets a little more serious and maybe

823
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:16.880
there's an inner circle and all this
kind of stuff goes on too. So

824
00:56:17.519 --> 00:56:21.920
there's a lot to consider here as
far as the possibility. So I think

825
00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:25.360
it makes it very very hard to
do your normal track and trace, right,

826
00:56:25.719 --> 00:56:29.599
Okay, So who did the victim
know? Because usually it's somebody that

827
00:56:29.679 --> 00:56:31.760
knows them that gets ahold of them
like this, And if it's a crime

828
00:56:31.800 --> 00:56:37.760
of opportunity, what was the point
of opportunity? Maybe there's common links and

829
00:56:37.119 --> 00:56:42.760
it seems like it's very difficult to
pin down based on those kind of you

830
00:56:42.760 --> 00:56:46.320
know, thought processes when it comes
to investigation, because it varies a little,

831
00:56:46.760 --> 00:56:52.039
but what is consistent is it's this
sort of you know, late at

832
00:56:52.119 --> 00:56:55.480
night. It's not broad daylight stuff, And it's definitely, you know,

833
00:56:55.679 --> 00:57:01.480
somehow somebody being lured away from a
public place and then they disappear. And

834
00:57:01.679 --> 00:57:07.679
generally speaking its younger men, although
there have been some other victims. Maybe

835
00:57:07.719 --> 00:57:10.840
they're in the mix as well.
That are women, right right, Yes,

836
00:57:10.880 --> 00:57:14.920
there's a few women out there that
this has happened to, found in

837
00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:17.679
the ditches and stuff like that.
Yeah, not many of them, right.

838
00:57:17.719 --> 00:57:21.159
Well, even in the case of
the ditches though, does it appear

839
00:57:21.199 --> 00:57:23.679
as though the ditches were sort of
on the way to a body of water?

840
00:57:23.880 --> 00:57:27.000
Is it that kind of thing or
a little bit? I mean,

841
00:57:27.079 --> 00:57:29.840
I was talking about this guy,
Hudson Lindslough. He was literally found in

842
00:57:29.840 --> 00:57:32.519
a creek like like I would have
stepped like, yeah, it's not even

843
00:57:32.559 --> 00:57:37.599
a foot deep. So so everyone's
different. Some are found in very strange

844
00:57:37.639 --> 00:57:42.840
places, ponds on golf courses,
weird bodies of water like, and then

845
00:57:42.840 --> 00:57:46.679
some are found in you know,
Lake Michigan harbors. It's all a mix.

846
00:57:47.519 --> 00:57:52.440
But so here's the thing. Outside
of going in taking a look at

847
00:57:52.480 --> 00:57:57.880
William Ramsey investigates, Okay, outside
of doing that, if somebody is interested

848
00:57:57.880 --> 00:58:01.840
in looking at this case or starting
with your documentary on Vimeo, And yeah,

849
00:58:01.920 --> 00:58:06.119
do send me all the links you
want, because I want to provide

850
00:58:06.119 --> 00:58:09.599
them to the listener and let them
go ahead and do their own exploration after

851
00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:15.239
they've listened to this conversation, right, you know, where would you suggest

852
00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:19.800
they go ahead and look to start
seeing the kind of thing that you're seeing

853
00:58:19.880 --> 00:58:23.840
here? And it is perhaps something
that could be done by the public if

854
00:58:23.840 --> 00:58:28.360
people got together. You don't know
which rock you might kick over, because

855
00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:31.119
you might have access to something that
somebody else doesn't, or you might have

856
00:58:31.119 --> 00:58:37.480
an idea somebody else doesn't. So
how would you suggest somebody approaches this if

857
00:58:37.480 --> 00:58:40.159
it's a brand new topic to them. Yeah, they can look at my

858
00:58:40.199 --> 00:58:45.400
two documentaries. I have the one
Spontiface Killers, who is abducting, torturing,

859
00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:47.320
murdering colleges men in the US and
UK, And then I have a

860
00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:52.599
second one called Spontiface Killers The Global
Slaughter Continues. You can see that I've

861
00:58:52.599 --> 00:58:55.800
done one hundred and twenty case studies
of the individual cases, so you can

862
00:58:55.880 --> 00:59:00.280
follow along and see what the families
say and see how they progress. That'll

863
00:59:00.320 --> 00:59:04.599
give you a broad overview. I
have conclusions on there. You can listen

864
00:59:04.639 --> 00:59:07.440
to all my shows on the Smiley
Face Killers, on William Ramsey Investigates,

865
00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:12.199
my podcasts I have, like you've
probably done thirty shows. You can check

866
00:59:12.199 --> 00:59:16.960
out Jim Smith probably one of the
best public investigators at his twitter feed which

867
00:59:17.039 --> 00:59:22.480
is at Smiley Faced Cult, still
posting all the stuff. He was the

868
00:59:22.480 --> 00:59:28.199
original kind of researcher and researcher for
my first documentary, so he's been at

869
00:59:28.239 --> 00:59:30.679
it for a long time. He
knows a lot of these cases more than

870
00:59:30.719 --> 00:59:34.840
I do. But that would be
a good start. And I think you

871
00:59:34.840 --> 00:59:38.639
can just kind of look through YouTube
and type in what these people think Chicago

872
00:59:38.719 --> 00:59:45.679
serial killer and Ladybird Lake Killer or
the Rainy Street Rip or whatever they're calling

873
00:59:45.679 --> 00:59:49.960
it now, and just look on
YouTube because all these independent researchers have cropped

874
00:59:50.039 --> 00:59:52.039
up within the last two or three
months. So a lot of people that

875
00:59:52.079 --> 00:59:58.000
I've never seen before kind of researching
these types of cases, are are interested

876
00:59:58.079 --> 01:00:00.639
now right now look for a final
pass it all this. I just uh

877
01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:04.320
and and again I want you to
check out. Just enter into a search

878
01:00:04.360 --> 01:00:08.039
engine, whatever one you use,
William Ramsey Investigates. You'll certainly come across

879
01:00:08.079 --> 01:00:12.920
William Ramsey and and yeah, dig
into this. I mean, you do

880
01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:15.280
a lot of other stuff too,
so I want people to look at all

881
01:00:15.320 --> 01:00:17.920
your work. But focusing on this
right now. One word that I did

882
01:00:19.000 --> 01:00:23.320
purposely avoid until you just brought it
up, okay, which is cult.

883
01:00:24.039 --> 01:00:29.960
I know it was part of the
Twitter handle of Bill Smith, right,

884
01:00:30.360 --> 01:00:34.079
you know, Jim Smith. Sorry
sorry, common name, common name,

885
01:00:34.239 --> 01:00:37.440
Um, sorry about that, but
anyway, Jim Smith, And yeah,

886
01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:43.280
I would definitely check that out as
well. But cults, What would be

887
01:00:43.400 --> 01:00:46.639
the thing that would indicate to you
that this could be a cult like activity?

888
01:00:46.719 --> 01:00:52.039
Now, initially just my own thoughts. When you're talking about dumping bodies

889
01:00:52.079 --> 01:00:55.480
into a body of water, there
is a ritualistic aspect that could be here,

890
01:00:55.519 --> 01:01:00.239
and torture could be ritualized as well. But what are the indicators to

891
01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:05.360
give you an idea or they give
some people the idea Because I've seen this

892
01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:13.519
discussed by others that there may indeed
be some sort of discernible cults in play

893
01:01:13.559 --> 01:01:16.320
here, right, And I think
there might be like a group of people

894
01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:21.400
who were practitioners of some occultism of
any different stripe. And there were those

895
01:01:21.400 --> 01:01:24.360
people in Chicago that were called the
Ripper Crew, and they preyed upon women.

896
01:01:24.840 --> 01:01:30.159
It did horrible, unspeakable things.
But the likelihood that these guys may

897
01:01:30.199 --> 01:01:34.679
have some kind of ideological outlook could
be real. And I, you know,

898
01:01:34.719 --> 01:01:37.840
I've talked about possible ties with other
groups and things like that, but

899
01:01:37.920 --> 01:01:43.159
I go into it and I actually
you know, investigate that in my podcast.

900
01:01:43.239 --> 01:01:46.280
But it could be and that may
be the reason why that the government

901
01:01:46.400 --> 01:01:52.159
isn't funny. It is because they're
not looking for some kind of cult behavior

902
01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:57.639
that's involved in this kind of predation. Well, my first instincts when I

903
01:01:57.719 --> 01:02:02.079
see the authorities not into rested in
following up on something is one of two

904
01:02:02.119 --> 01:02:10.079
things. Either they they do not
have the aptitude to approach it, they

905
01:02:10.119 --> 01:02:15.039
don't know what they're looking at.
Or my what really usually comes up first

906
01:02:15.159 --> 01:02:20.639
is maybe there's somebody that is among
the protected classes, if you will,

907
01:02:21.079 --> 01:02:23.920
one way or another. Either they're
a rich person in the community, or

908
01:02:24.400 --> 01:02:30.559
there's somebody who's important politically or something
like that who is somehow directly involved or

909
01:02:30.599 --> 01:02:35.760
easily tied to it. Like I'm
very sure that uh, you know,

910
01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:38.599
what was it. Rosalind Carter was
never thrilled at the fact that she was

911
01:02:38.639 --> 01:02:46.920
photographed with you know, he's last
four victims were thrown in rivers in Chicago,

912
01:02:47.440 --> 01:02:51.480
and there was what the final tie
I was going to bring up is

913
01:02:51.519 --> 01:02:53.199
that, you know, when you
got an area like that, and of

914
01:02:53.239 --> 01:02:57.360
course he was dumping people, not
just in his house there, but it's

915
01:02:57.519 --> 01:03:01.800
it's last few. They were dumped
in bodies of water, and I mean

916
01:03:01.800 --> 01:03:05.320
gay she made a lot of claims
and was saying that he wasn't the only

917
01:03:05.320 --> 01:03:07.800
one involved. I don't know that
that wasn't just some sort of strategy on

918
01:03:07.880 --> 01:03:14.559
his part. But if it wasn't, if there was even a grain of

919
01:03:14.599 --> 01:03:17.280
truth to that, you know,
you could be looking at something that's been

920
01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:23.039
operating for possibly fifty years here,
if that's connected to this, And that's

921
01:03:23.039 --> 01:03:28.440
a possibility even too. We don't
know for sure, do we. I

922
01:03:28.480 --> 01:03:30.559
wouldn't know. I really wouldn't know. I mean, it just seems like

923
01:03:30.599 --> 01:03:37.119
these types of crimes were not happening
in the seventies and eighties with the same

924
01:03:37.000 --> 01:03:43.039
consistency that they are now. So
yeah, I would hope that it hasn't

925
01:03:43.039 --> 01:03:45.880
gone back that far, but people
haven't found a lot of those cases in

926
01:03:45.920 --> 01:03:49.239
the seventies and eighties. It really
was something that started in mid nineties.

927
01:03:49.880 --> 01:03:53.000
Very strange, but it's happening.
It's white hot now Chicago, Austin,

928
01:03:53.079 --> 01:03:58.079
p safe. Be careful, don't
get your drink spiked. Stay together.

929
01:03:58.119 --> 01:04:00.599
Men have to stay together too.
You should act like you're going into the

930
01:04:00.679 --> 01:04:03.480
back and you go out at night. In some of these cities, it's

931
01:04:03.519 --> 01:04:08.599
like stick together, like you're part
of a platoon in Vietnam. Like everybody

932
01:04:08.599 --> 01:04:12.239
gets out alive, Like I'm that
serious, Like don't let people walk out

933
01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:15.920
alone. Make sure everybody gets in
the car together. And your uber driver

934
01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:18.199
is probably a danger too. So
yeah, really, things that are really

935
01:04:18.239 --> 01:04:21.760
sketchy in the States right now.
So be careful. Well, there's another

936
01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:26.679
element too. Just last thing I
want to bring up is that if somebody

937
01:04:26.719 --> 01:04:30.480
wanted to follow up on this and
they were very serious about it. Modes

938
01:04:30.519 --> 01:04:35.000
of transportation are often a key to
uncovering things in an investigation. I mean,

939
01:04:35.199 --> 01:04:38.280
how many times do we have to
hear about, Yeah, we wouldn't

940
01:04:38.280 --> 01:04:42.280
have busted this guy if it wasn't
for a traffic stop or some ridiculous thing,

941
01:04:42.360 --> 01:04:44.719
right, you know, the plate
was out of order, this or

942
01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:47.920
that. Now, in modern times
here and especially in an urban area or

943
01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:55.760
a more metropolitan area. Let's say
there is certainly a lot more use of

944
01:04:55.800 --> 01:05:00.760
stuff like yeah, Uber and whatnot, so there could easily be something trackable

945
01:05:00.800 --> 01:05:06.599
traceable there. I mean, you
know today, would would would would you

946
01:05:06.639 --> 01:05:10.719
know the guys that were used in
taxicabs years ago? Okay that was a

947
01:05:10.760 --> 01:05:14.639
little more anonymous, but I mean
your your uber driver knows where they brought

948
01:05:14.639 --> 01:05:18.000
you to and from. Uh.
They almost always have some sort of photographic

949
01:05:18.039 --> 01:05:21.920
proof of who you are. You
know who they are. There is something

950
01:05:21.960 --> 01:05:27.000
trackable and traceable there. How come
that's not been utilized. Has anybody looked

951
01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:30.400
into as did these guys use Uber? You know, because somebody's a good

952
01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:32.679
question, you know. I think
that there's not a lot of stuff.

953
01:05:32.679 --> 01:05:35.159
One of the things that I have
found in a lot of these cases there's

954
01:05:35.199 --> 01:05:39.960
a reason why their cell phones are
found where they're abducting. I think it's

955
01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:45.159
intentional because the perpetrators do not want
to have any track and trace with the

956
01:05:45.199 --> 01:05:47.719
phone, So the phone's either found
broken or sitting there with the belongings and

957
01:05:47.840 --> 01:05:50.920
things like that. So there has
been one case that I can think of

958
01:05:50.920 --> 01:05:56.039
offhand in Boston. His name is
Keller her and they followed his phone because

959
01:05:56.039 --> 01:05:59.760
he was going north from ted I
Center or whatever. He was going north

960
01:06:00.039 --> 01:06:03.039
over the Charles River and then his
phone picked him up going south, which

961
01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:06.039
was away from his house, and
then he was later found in the Charles

962
01:06:06.159 --> 01:06:10.800
River. But that phone gave away
some information that he was not going the

963
01:06:10.840 --> 01:06:15.320
way he wanted to go when he
left. He wasn't drunk too, he

964
01:06:15.400 --> 01:06:18.920
was walking just fine. So but
you information is very important. But like

965
01:06:18.960 --> 01:06:21.000
I said, some of these police, you don't know what's coming out.

966
01:06:21.039 --> 01:06:25.639
You don't know how serious they're taking
as And if they say it's just an

967
01:06:25.639 --> 01:06:30.480
accidental drowning, it's done so after
bought books and you move on. So

968
01:06:30.079 --> 01:06:32.039
yeah, there you go. I
mean, you know, when they say

969
01:06:32.079 --> 01:06:34.480
they've got a suicide on their hands, there's no reason to look for a

970
01:06:34.559 --> 01:06:40.400
murderer, go, you know,
very simple. That's an interesting correlation though,

971
01:06:40.440 --> 01:06:44.400
I mean, are we finding that
the cell phones are almost always abandoned

972
01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:46.559
at the point of abduction? Is
that is that a common seems like it.

973
01:06:46.639 --> 01:06:49.679
There's I could probably go back and
look through all my notes and find

974
01:06:49.719 --> 01:06:55.039
twenty of them with their cell phones
have been found, So it is there

975
01:06:55.159 --> 01:06:59.280
is some kind of weird correlation between
that or they're in the water. So

976
01:06:59.440 --> 01:07:02.400
I mean that makes sense too,
right, destroy the evidence? Yeah,

977
01:07:02.440 --> 01:07:04.880
well, either way, it makes
it a whole hell of a lot harder

978
01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:08.400
to find, and especially if it's
been turned off. There you go,

979
01:07:08.480 --> 01:07:12.199
you got a dead bone in the
water. Not exactly the easiest thing to

980
01:07:12.199 --> 01:07:14.360
go. I mean, you don't
believe me. Drop it into lake somewhere

981
01:07:14.360 --> 01:07:17.119
and see if you can find it. You know that that's just difficult in

982
01:07:17.119 --> 01:07:20.960
and of itself. But okay,
so there you have it. And again

983
01:07:21.280 --> 01:07:26.239
William Ramsey investigates, and I urge
you guys to go ahead and follow up

984
01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:30.199
for yourselves on this. Are there
any one last thing? Is there any

985
01:07:30.639 --> 01:07:34.840
other like I know there were some
Facebook groups there you mentioned, but is

986
01:07:34.840 --> 01:07:41.320
there any centralized location for this yet
or not? To my knowledge, I

987
01:07:41.360 --> 01:07:44.239
think that there's a lot of things
going on TikTok. I'm not on TikTok,

988
01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:49.360
but you can probably find the older
Smiley Face research groups on Facebook.

989
01:07:49.400 --> 01:07:54.159
I haven't been on there, but
they were around five, you know,

990
01:07:54.239 --> 01:07:57.760
seven years ago, so I assume
they're still there. And you can go

991
01:07:57.840 --> 01:08:00.440
through and look at all that all
that knowledge that's been a crude there's quite

992
01:08:00.440 --> 01:08:03.880
a bit or scroll through Jim Smith. There you go, So look at

993
01:08:03.920 --> 01:08:10.440
Jim Smith's up and obviously William Ramsey
Investigates. You're available on most podcatchers,

994
01:08:10.519 --> 01:08:13.320
right, I mean most of the
things out there everywhere. Yeah, pretty

995
01:08:13.360 --> 01:08:16.239
much, spot on Spotify. I'm
hosted by Spotify. Now, so oh

996
01:08:16.319 --> 01:08:23.279
you're hosted by Spotify. Okay,
that's okay, great, I almost did

997
01:08:23.319 --> 01:08:28.760
that. But anyway, long story. Hey, look, it might be

998
01:08:28.760 --> 01:08:30.199
a good thing for me to do, but then again, I want you

999
01:08:30.199 --> 01:08:33.479
guys to follow up. Go ahead
and check them out. Anywhere where podcasts

1000
01:08:33.479 --> 01:08:36.479
are you pretty much find William Ramsey
and you're still on YouTube. You're still

1001
01:08:36.479 --> 01:08:40.960
allowed there, right, No,
I got banned. Oh you got banned.

1002
01:08:41.079 --> 01:08:44.439
I'm sorry. So I'm on all
My stuff's on Rock Rock under William

1003
01:08:44.520 --> 01:08:47.640
Ramsey Rock then yeah, my third
channel, so I think i'm my I've

1004
01:08:47.760 --> 01:08:54.279
lost three channels to uh to government
censorship. Yeah, okay, so rock

1005
01:08:54.399 --> 01:08:57.520
then they can see you on video
and you're stuff are still up on Vimeo,

1006
01:08:57.800 --> 01:09:00.159
right, Yes, sir, there
you go, William Ramsey Investigates.

1007
01:09:00.159 --> 01:09:02.319
And I thank you for taking the
time tonight. I know it took you

1008
01:09:02.319 --> 01:09:06.760
a little over time, but I
think people should get in on this while

1009
01:09:06.760 --> 01:09:11.920
it's resurging, because this may be
a time when who knows, something might

1010
01:09:12.079 --> 01:09:15.760
break in the case, and you
never know. You might have at your

1011
01:09:15.800 --> 01:09:20.439
fingertips, in your locale, you
might have the information you might come across

1012
01:09:20.439 --> 01:09:25.399
to yourself. You the listener,
not you, William, but anyway,

1013
01:09:25.479 --> 01:09:27.600
no matter who you are, where
you are, when you are, remember

1014
01:09:27.640 --> 01:09:31.560
I'm merely o'celly and all of you, or indeed the effect William Ramsey investigates.

1015
01:09:32.680 --> 01:10:01.800
Find him wherever you find this stuff. Wall Street, Greindow dot dot,

1016
01:10:04.680 --> 01:10:12.680
gold, silver, the stock market, Wall Street, Greindow dot dot.

1017
01:10:13.760 --> 01:10:16.720
Perhaps you're invested deeply, perhaps you're
not in deep enough. Maybe you're

1018
01:10:16.720 --> 01:10:21.960
thinking about getting started. Wall Street, Windows dot com, doos dot com.

1019
01:10:23.079 --> 01:10:27.439
Michael Swanson, the brilliant author of
the War State, understood these trends

1020
01:10:27.479 --> 01:10:30.520
professionally for many years, and now
he gives you the benefit of his knowledge.

1021
01:10:31.760 --> 01:10:38.760
Wall Street, Street, Indo dot
dot Go there, now go there,

1022
01:10:38.920 --> 01:10:42.840
now go there now can use expressed
my caller schoolhos there anyone else who

1023
01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:45.560
happens to get on the air Jolly
dot com. He's not necessarily replying.

1024
01:10:45.600 --> 01:10:48.039
He views at Ochelly dot com or
jolly and we are not responsible for getting

1025
01:10:48.039 --> 01:10:51.720
stupidity which might ensue. Thank you, James Formancardo Report dot com. And

1026
01:10:51.760 --> 01:10:57.840
you're listening to the Ochelly affect at
oceelly dot com. Revelation through conversation Looper

1027
01:10:58.039 --> 01:11:01.159
Holocaust. You know what your runium
is right? Called nuclear weapons and other

1028
01:11:01.279 --> 01:11:08.119
things like lots of uranium is right? Bad things things have done with uranium,

1029
01:11:08.159 --> 01:11:14.680
including some bad things nuclear holocaust.
What duolium is right, luclear holocaust,

1030
01:11:15.119 --> 01:11:19.439
nuclear holocaust. Unium is right called
nuclear weapons, and other things like

1031
01:11:19.640 --> 01:11:26.239
pts of what ruling is right?
Things have done with duronum, including some

1032
01:11:26.359 --> 01:11:32.920
bad things nuclear holocaust, nuclear hololear
holocaust, nuclear holocaust, nuclear holocaust,

1033
01:11:33.399 --> 01:11:39.359
nuclear Holiday. The War State by
Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that

1034
01:11:39.439 --> 01:11:43.840
took place and put the Kennedy presidency
in the context of the times and reveals

1035
01:11:43.960 --> 01:11:47.880
never before published information about the Cuban
missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have

1036
01:11:47.920 --> 01:11:53.680
been assassinated if he had been president
two hundred years ago. His assassination took

1037
01:11:53.680 --> 01:11:57.520
place in the context of the Cold
War and the rise of the national security

1038
01:11:57.600 --> 01:12:00.479
state. Before World War Two,
the United States was a continental republic.

1039
01:12:00.800 --> 01:12:05.359
In the decade that followed it became
an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis

1040
01:12:05.399 --> 01:12:10.399
LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba, but knew that there were short range

1041
01:12:10.439 --> 01:12:14.720
missiles on the island armed with nuclear
warheads that they could not destroy because they

1042
01:12:14.720 --> 01:12:17.680
were on mobile launchers. Their invasion
could have led to a Third World War,

1043
01:12:18.000 --> 01:12:23.039
and they wanted to go to war
anyway. The War State by Michael

1044
01:12:23.039 --> 01:12:27.439
Swanson reveals why and will show you
what President Kennedy was up against. For

1045
01:12:27.520 --> 01:12:40.720
more information, the War State dot
com dot com Revelation through Conversation