The opinions expressed by Chayo Busquets are supported by his extensive experience as a family
therapist and in the previous analysis of the cases presented here welcome. This is
Chayo with you. In Joya. We begin very good afternoon to everyone as
I am Chayo Busquets, these Chayo with you and we are starting last week
of May. We' re out of it. We' re out of
May and we' re ready here to start today' s program. We
' re having Anacatirias Suárez on the show today. She is a lawyer,
a criminalist, a founder of voices that humanizes justice and is a woman who
knows all about family violence, especially unless I wronged Nacatiria. How do I
tell you ana or Katiria or Nakatiria how you want perfect yanas. I don
' t like your Katyria what it means. You know, yeah, it
' s a flower of ok, but the name' s nice, and
I don' t think you know another one that' s called like you
don' t. I' m not opening up with you either. Well,
very welcome to the show. I understand, as I said, that
you are a specialist in everything that has to do with violence against women.
Right, yeah, that' s my career. I' m a career
lawyer. I am specialized in criminal law, criminal litigation in general and as
a personal vocation, as it is the defense of gender and human rights,
which is strictly related to this line of law. Perfect. Well, today
' s program is about to be addressed, because whenever they ask me questions
about these issues. I' m telling you, that' s from a
lawyer and I' m a family therapist, but I can tell you the
emotional, but I can' t tell you the legal. Anakatiria is going
to be known today to others to be able to answer questions to their comments.
What can be done, what cannot be done. That you do not
have the right when violence begins and that is the question I ask you I
would start when for the law, in a relationship man woman or even woman
woman, yes, but in violence to women, when you already say that
it is violence. Well the verb of violence has legal effects when there is
a psycho- emotional affectation in IT, when there is a change of self
- perception. How you look like you' re feeling, yeah, so,
uh, you can go down the street. And if they tell you
something horrible, then you follow the long one and it' s over.
But in an environment where you live under one roof and it doesn' t
matter if it' s your partner or if it' s your dad or
your uncle. The point is that in this family nucleus someone is constantly making
comments, evaluations, comparisons disdain and a lot of zeal, so many behaviors
that people have no idea are part of the crime, uh, like ignoring
you this ice law, keeping you from the economy, imitating your actions.
All these kinds of behaviors, which are so normalized, are part of the
crime of family violence and are within the Penal Code of Wou, of the
country of care, of the state of repute, because we already started in
anapatiria and notice that we, in March, with Women' s Day,
we did a program, we did many, but one of them was from
romantic love to feminicide. Yes, from your place, what would be those
common denominators that you hear with all the dramas and tragedies that you owe of
this one to hear and that are happening, and what would you tell those
who hear us abused when this begins to happen, then, notice that I
think it is or, in my opinion, on the smallest scale, it
is minimal violence. I don' t care. Femicide doesn' t choose
how much they beat you or how much it doesn' t seem to me
that it is the expression of the purest or most radical objectivization towards women,
that is, I use you, I submit you, I don' t
teach you. According to my judgment, and then I throw away your body
and I wind you up because you' re no longer good, because I
' ve cancelled you, because I' ve already shut you up. So,
if you' re talking about a person you' re constantly being canceled
by their partner, it doesn' t even have to be physically where it
' s always that you' re so silly. You, no, you
can' t make decisions from that minimal normalized trait of my husband being the
head of the family. That' s bullshit. There are no bosses in
any family here. It is a couple of pairs who have to take care
and respect both and when one feels superior to the other, begins a dynamic
of submission that, of course, first is a crime and second, does
not know if a bad blow is going to end in a femicide, because
let us remember that femicide For those men, I say with ne and be
girl and synache, those men who do not understand the eh gravity or women
who continue clinging to this misogynistic culture. It doesn' t have to do,
uh, uh, how much it' s gonna hurt you or then
from here this no longer comments threats. This doesn' t matter if they
don' t hit you, I mean, you don' t have to
come in with an eye in your hand so you can lose your life later.
The serious thing is that in front of the authorities, when women come
to ask for help and to denounce these inhumans, then it turns out that
they have the same culture and the same ideology to the justice operators, because
they are exaggerating. Or why do you file a complaint if you' re
coming to forgive him tomorrow? You don' t care much. If I
denounce myself and had the courage you have to generate the conditions and security guarantees
so that this does not happen again. Otherwise, in my opinion, authority
becomes a co- responsible for that femicide. Femicide must be a prior family
violence, sexual violence injuries to the body. That the body has been thrown
into the public street, threats, family violence, so it' s not
like all murders of women are feminicides. No. However, most femicides are
well typified. On the contrary, not all homicides are well classified and many
should be femicides. No doubt. I' ll leave you with a question
earlier You' re talking about a little abuse, an evaluatory comment, and
so on. That' s already starting to do it. Yeah. S
However, when that already implies a complaint, because if I go and tell
him that my husband says that everything I say is stupid. I don'
t know if you can lift one of melia with that. Of course,
if you can write it down how it goes if you file a lawsuit.
So, yes, because there is forensic psychology. Then you get to the
D A. You report that this inhuman visit devalues you all the time and
tells you that you' re too stupid to do things all the time.
All the time. That generates a psycho- emotional affectation on your person.
You report these events, that is, yesterday he told me such anti-
ertal and two weeks ago such and he practices you an expert in forensic psychology,
where he says that, derived from the reported facts, you have a
psycho- emotional affectation that is standardized with batteries and evidence that forensic psychologists use
to identify this type of injury. I mean, it' s so serious
the damage it causes that by some reason the legislation established it as a crime.
It' s not that you can' t take anything anymore, it
' s that why you have to put up with something is like it'
s a stone or what. So, the point is that many times authority
doesn' t have the criterion to follow up on that. But today there
are many groups of women who are interested in living a life free of violence
and then advise many women free of charge to go to the Public Prosecutor'
s Office and know their rights. Many times the Public Prosecutor' s Office
tells them no. It' s just that I don' t see any
crime here. Yeah, but you' re the public servant, and if
I come to report anything, you get me the complaint. If, after
offering evidence to practice everything to me, you consider that there is no crime,
then I will know how to resort to it, because there are also
other instances. The public ministry does not say the last word, nor is
it the pain of justice. Of course not. And all those men who
think that by hitting him in the belly you don' t notice, then,
because you also have to send them to the small workshop to see if
it gives them a cable adjustment. We' re back here in chayo with
you talking to criminal lawyer Ana Katiria Suárez Hey She' s, like I
told you, founder of voices humanizing for justice, just justice just like,
uh, what' s the website for you to get in and Ted tonces
humanizing justice on Facebook, on Instagram and there you can write to us.
We try to respond and as soon as possible to all the emails that send
us and what we do in voices humanizing justice. It is a strategic litigation
that includes not only defence or representation against authority. If we don' t
also give free self- defense workshops in tonces let' s start to see
the girls and the boys and girls that a second reaction changes your life to
self- defense. Not this one, we also give workshops, along with
other collaborators that we are. We are little, but it will call toar
María José Suárez and we are very Jun Jakiri Rubio, this my soul always
and good and we give workshops also, for example, to prepare, make
bread not in such a way that they can generate economy and be able to
leave their homes, because you already see that there are some cucarachos that,
because they keep the house, feel owners of people. So, in voices
we respond in an integral way with psycho- emotional reintegration therapies this and we
try to cover, because all the spaces that have been violated when faced with
these grave violations of human rights by the abusers. Unfortunately, how much work
you' ve got grossly awful phenences is that no matter where you come from
the degree. It doesn' t matter is that the one who is emotionally
ruinous and people think that maybe talking about the emotional psycho issue is something e
of dawn. No, it' s not legal, it' s social.
When there is so much value generated by the abusers in any economic,
sexual, physical, psycho, emotional aspect, one cannot be left to talk
about the right of the trials, of the accusation. It' s just
that you don' t want to fight, it' s just that you
' re very troublesome. Chayo is always reporting visitors. No, no what
or, because now it' s such a fashionable word. No yes how
toxic to fall no, I am not toxic tell me gossip, because what
you do my chest is not cellar and I will accuse you with authority to
see what accounts you render. No, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no. You don' t have the
last word. That' s where I think we' re very ignorant.
People do, what is honest And now that we' re going to vote
on Sunday, I don' t care about politics, but that I understand
people that ignoring the law is a mechanism of social manipulation that so many people
are afraid to go to the authorities because they don' t know their rights.
The public minister has an obligation to receive a complaint with what you consider
to cause you an injury, and if they then consider that the stated conduct
is not harmful, you have other resources. You have appeals, you have
disagreements, you have a lot of legal resources to tell the public prosecutor who
determined that situation. No, no, no, no, no. We
' re asking for reopenings, research and you do things the way it should
be. If there are certain guidelines to be followed. Right is a science.
It' s not for anyone who thinks we should do it or not.
It' s not optional, it' s not to see if you
want to advance or generate peace. Peace is created when you respect the person
next to you, when you stop respecting it, you break into that legislation
and deserve to be judged and pointed out. Don' t tell me you
don' t have the same feeling as I do the day I' m
in trouble, this woman is the one who has to defend me, because
she has everything very clear. Hey anapatiria and you mentioned it as a little
pass, a little while ago you defended him. Yeah, what' s
that. Legitimate ephes is a right that we all and all citizens in the
country have to repel a real aggression in the present tense that means if I
am attacked, I have the right to attack you, even to take your
life for why. Because it' s a right, because it' s
a behavior that' s obviously going to hurt someone else. But your life
can' t be less valuable than facing it. So, when there is
a situation and current, that is to say that it is happening at this
real moment, that you are not imagining it imminent, that you have no
other way of reacting. You can defend yourself with anything. Very recently we
had the opportunity to reform the law with the Vos Foundation by humanizing justice to
article fifteen sixteen of the Criminal Code, which establishes who has the right,
under what circumstances you have the right to defend yourself. And this is to
add the context of gender and gender perspective, that is, whatever defensive reaction
you have, which is derived from a gender- based ring, must be
de facto accredited. Self- defence must not be questioned for a minute.
And the other article talks about the excess that means you attack me with a
knife and I pull out a bazooka. That is an excess in self-
defence. But when we talk about gender- based crimes, there can be
no excess in this self- defense, because I in fact can and besides
from the beginning there is a physical difference, of physical strength, then I
cannot be thinking until what moment I am going to stop being in danger,
as we see the case of a fifteen- year- old girl who was
raped on the street, or as the case of Jakiri Rubio, in the
book that I had the opportunity to write, which are called self- defense.
They' re just talking about it, because I have a bucket and
I take someone else' s life when I' m being sexually assaulted,
because a rape isn' t so clear, because if you get it,
surely it' s not enough to think that if you' re objectivizing in
that way, because the next thing might be that you take your life.
Then we had the opportunity to reform the law and it was reformed. Yeah.
He' s in that process right now, but yes, it'
s over. And good to tell people to report on self- defence.
We' re not without defenses. We have a right to react to nothing
that he sees you' ve asked your uncle for help and why you yelled
at the neighbor. You can' t defend yourself, you can react in
a second and save your life or that of your child or a neighbor,
because it can be your own or another' s good. That' s
what the law says or that I can' t intervene by defending a person
they' re attacking or knowing. That' s right, yeah, it
' s wow. I don' t know if violence is like pregnancy.
You' re pregnant or not. You' re pregnant. Or there is
little violence, much violence, types of violence, how, how this is
handled in the good law You more than anyone else. I know that there
are levels of violence, but in legal matters, within the crime of family
violence, there are different areas, family violence, emotional psycho violence, which
we already talked about, this self- perception and so on, not physical
violence, which is beyond saying it, but yes, it is good to
explain that not only physical violence attends to blows. It' s also subjection,
submission, or something that will hurt you, hit you. That too
constitutes physical violence. Many times you tell a victim has suffered this kind of
good. It' s not like I' m getting embarrassed once. Ah
then if you have suffered that is also if it is also one is that
it made me like this, it held me by the arms. Oh,
well, that' s it then, too. Also the aggressors think twice
and women must not beat men either. I mean, there' s no
way anyone touches anyone. Then there is economic violence. This is the type
of the Mexican machirulo, that is, you lock the key for it to
placate. Right now, you' re going to see the pension, I
' ll lock it up and see if you don' t scrub. No.
Don' t you? Don' t you? Don' t you?
It' s a crime. Any control for the economic perception of the
dependent within the family is a crime and is called violent, that is,
if I know I have to give you a ten pesos pension and today I
give you three and tomorrow two and spend one to tar all the time being
controlling you and you have to be begging me. That generates an affectation and
that' s also a crime. Let' s see. Let me ask
you a question there, when the couple doesn' t know why the other
doesn' t want to tell them how much authority gains. Non- economic
violence depends if you later discover that they are selling or working overtime with horrible
pressure, because there is no economy within the home. But then you realize
that one of the two sides had a way of living a more relaxed life.
Then yes, because you created those conditions already. But there is another
violence called patrimonial violence. This means the retention, or the one that breaks.
You come and come furniture, your cell phone, they take away your
car, documents this many things that belong to your belonging and limit them to
you so that for them it becomes patrimonial violence. Then there' s sexual
violence. And we' re not just talking about rape. Sexual violence has
to do with this conditioning, the spacing of the and the way in which
you conceive your sexual life as a partner every time, every form, and
so on. This can also constitute sexual violence and violence against reproductive rights.
How many children you want to have the space between each other, I mean,
you' re not here to give birth to anyone, yes, then
no. I am going to go into an issue that is fundamental to me,
the right to abortion, and it is not questionable by any religion.
We don' t talk about religions here, we talk about people. That
' s right, we' re talking about being a therapeutic and scientific environment,
so let' s go. I don' t need anyone' s
permission to make decisions about my body, and that means having children or not.
For example, how many men do not know that removing the condom in
the middle of a sexual relationship constitutes rape. Why? Because your consent to
have sex with this person was through a situation that was to have a condom,
since if during the act he takes it away because so you do,
there he likes these stupid things that you say I don' t feel the
same. Well, I don' t care. You' re not the
focus of attention at this event. There' s two of them. This
of course is a violation, because maybe otherwise you wouldn' t have made
the decision or you wouldn' t have given your consent to this relationship or
wills situation and your consent is altered. Obviously, there is no common agreement
between the parties to stop how much we do not know about the law.
We are back talking to Ana Katyria Suárez, a criminal lawyer, for those
who are barely joining the program talking about violence and inevitably we need to talk
about the violence that, therefore, happens to children when there is domestic violence.
Yes, first of all, let everyone know that there is a specialized
prosecutor' s office, which is the prosecutor' s office for children and
adolescents. Then all crimes that may be committed in the name of young children
until adolescence, he said, until before the age of eighteen, are investigated.
There is what we can find there parental interference, or that we talk
about this manipulation of a father or a mother to the detriment of the children
so that they see the other side badly. No, this is a terrible
damage they do and I don' t talk about men or women. It
' s a terrible thing they do with children because they get out and very
hurt and it' s very difficult for them to come back to their lives.
And the violence parents and mothers understand. That this is my son and
I have a right. No, no, no, ladies and gentlemen,
the right to father and mother belongs to the girls, not to the parents.
If the kid doesn' t want to see his mom or doesn'
t want to see his dad, he doesn' t see it. It
is a right that you have to be embraced by this first love or this
first bond. But children are not the object of passing it. For this
reason minors, boys and girls, also belong to the same vulnerable community as
women, because they are objectivized and used as a currency of exchange. Or,
uh, well, I can hit him no, because that' s
how they raised me, yes, but they raped you. It doesn'
t mean you have to go rape, because that' s so typical.
He doesn' t have a lot of abuse on the part of dad,
uncle, grandfather, sometimes also through women. It is much less the range
of possibility, but it also exists and this issue is that he was raped
as a child and the lady too and is not violating at the right hand
and sinister. It is not very important to realize when children have a change
in their attitude, in their privacy, when they are not being respected,
children change. It can' t be that you don' t realize if
one, on a working date, can realize that there is something unusual in
the look of a little girl, of a baby, because of course you
can see it, as a mom, but well you can denounce the man
and representation of your children, the father or the mother, either for the
non- fulfilment of food obligations, for physical, psycho, emotional, sexual
violence, You as before the age of eighteen. You can report your daughter
' s father or mother for the harm you consider to be being done to
her, which they cannot educate with beatings or humiliations. That seems to me
retrograde archaic gross of people, because Ruin not despite a child and illegal to
regenerate half a year is the way you go Ruin to hurt the soul of
an i. Well, a subject we can' t leave before I'
m going to discriminate against you. How do you understand that? How do
you understand? Base? Discrimination is also a crime that people know is not
that you behave badly. You' re not a criminal, just like the
chapo, just the one who discriminates or turns around or does those things,
but you' re just as mean and. It is that difference or a
differentiated treatment by reason of religion, sex, gender, cultural identification, this
worldview, etc. Not then, this is what we were talking about right
now, chayo of Mexican education, whether he' s going to study someone
who' s your brother, because this family is the tallest, go ahead
or get up to serve the lord. That is discriminatory conduct. You don
' t have roles in life. There' s no such thing as that.
Femininity is a logical construction of the human being. It' s not
natural, okay everything that' s natural, that is, we both have
hands feet. We are able to develop ourselves in every context, equally within
universities, schools, within your own home, you may be living through discrimination,
regardless of whether living this inside the home is a crime of family violence.
There is also a criminal type of discrimination. Criminal type means a behavior
described in the law, like stealing the one who takes over. That'
s the way it is That' s the kind of penalty. So I
recommend that in order to live a life free from violence and much freer in
general, we have basic knowledge of what we have a right to, who
we can turn to. How many institutions for the protection of justice exist in
the country that do not make them known to us through public policies, when
it is the obligation of the State, because they prefer not to do so
so that we do not raise our voice. But if it is up to
us to educate ourselves, we may not be able to solve violence in the
streets, but we can defend ourselves in front of institutions, in front of
our own family and others. Eh, like the conapred or Copred that is
this Commission, not and that defends the people that have been violated by any
difference that exists the LGBT community vehicumas in the foundation also, because, obviously,
we embrace all the vulnerable communities and original communities, eh elderly people that
any eh person who is in a circumstance of difference vis-à- vis
society. That' s where we have to turn around. You don'
t have to feel more comfortable about being in a more comfortable situation than in
doubt. We' re definitely coming back to get all the foundation data and
all the data from this lawyer we' ve had today. Well, we
' re out of the program like water. I want to thank you infinitely
for coming. Thank you It' s your house. Let' s hope
this is one of many, because there are so many legal issues we need
to know to know how to handle ourselves. So they repeat the data to
Nakatiria on Twitter, to Nakati as an Instagram lawyer, to Nakatria Suárez on
Facebook. Voices humanizing justice on Instagram and Facebook. Perfect, yeah, well,
we' re gonna put all that together with the podcast in a couple
of days, as you know, on social media so they have access to
all that. The truth is, it' s been a pleasure to me.
You' ve uncovered a lot of doubts for me and I' m
saying it on purpose, you' ve uncovered a lot of doubts from the
doubts you' ve solved for me today. Then make him. Yeah,
yeah. I think it' s very important to do this. Thank you
again, thank you. Yes, of course, and good to invite all
the people. On the 27th of July we will organize a concert called Voices
of Resistance, which in order to advance we must resist. We are therefore
accompanied by chavas, feminists, music, Tania Matus, Valeria Hasso, Bella
Solé, etcetera. We organized it voices humanizing justice, along with fen by
fem Pandilla Violeta Feminist Crianza. Remember that if we join there is no one
to stop us Also with us, the artist Greta Ella and a surprise guest
is in the auditorium black Berry and the sale of tickets opens the next week
so that they are very close. Twenty- seventh of July this year.
Evidently, through social networks. Andra from on social networks does perfectly. Oh,
thank you very much. Of course we will and here we will be
notifying you so that you do not forget, because it is the 27th of
July. But I' m in charge of remembering rules here. Thank you,
thank you very much. Thank you all. We' ll hear each
other tomorrow at 1: 00. Here again I am chayo busquets. This
was chayo with you until then. Thank you. Audio Cente