Okay. Let' s talk and chat for a long time with Manuel Adorni
and thank him for having done a little bit, a little hole to talk
to us. How you doing, Manuel vince works out fine, all right.
Thanks for inviting me. How you love crazy kids. It' s
impressive. Hey, they love you good is my almost- saying audience since
I' ve been in the media. I was generating that audience in that
connection with the kids, kids under the age of forty that yoma how old
you are forty- four, forty- four tell me and I want to
know a little voice about not always the notes you sit and bin you sat
down already throw a wave. Well, tell me what you think of the
gas I don' t want anything I' ve always been the same.
I want to talk to you. I also want to talk about other things.
You saw where you' re from. I' m silver plate.
I lived in the silver until twenty- four years later the good life,
expelled me from the silver and went to live in the city of Buenos Aires.
You' ve got dad, mom, I' ve got mom,
dad, dead in two thousand two. So young man, when you left
your old man, he didn' t have much, yeah, super young.
He died in the age of sixty- two and you were twenty-
two or twenty- two and yes, indeed, well, but you were
also very old with my mom, not my mom. My mom took 15
years with her. You saw it used before. The difference now is not
so common. So, well he passed away and well my mom actually,
with my brother went on, lived living in La Plata and you have brothers.
He' s a brother who lives in the city at ten kilometers and
you have. Your mom lives. My mom lives yes, yes, she
' s sixty- nine years old family. Of what were the ornaments,
the adornis were at what time not the adornis, the paw, the father
branch. At some point they were people of a lot of money, of
field, of stay, of high society, let' s say of Argentina
or of the I don' t know if the high society, but it
gave people very well positioned. Well, actually, the creators of the city
of La Plata were people. It was a city of money people. Then,
generations, of course, were melting and had. Then they came to
have the last businesses they had were pharmacies, chain of formation, family.
There' s still one with your last name on it. I' m
talking about fifty- sixty years ago. I didn' t get any.
What you studied was you in my life. Well, I studied at La
Plata, at San Luis College, I did kindergarten, primary, high school,
and then. Well, then I went to the National University of La
Plata and studied economics. Then, life in the middle sent me to as
I said, I worked a lot, a lot, a lot, a
lot of hours and hours per day and so on, but what I did
at the time. I was working low, I was in the automotive industry.
I worked many years in the automotive ruble and that made me consume a
lot of time and travel. It was very cumbersome to go to the silver.
The truth was that it was coming back at twelve o' clock at
night standing in the collective. You never came before for me and the media
how you got here, because I' m going to be radio down.
There was, but you started to stream before long ago was not the arrival.
No, it wasn' t me. Nothing. I was working,
managing, running companies, I' m telling you, Rubro Automotor, what
you' ve generated from dealerships, cars, car positions. And at that
moment I started writing almost to say to download myself into a personal blog that
nobody read. Of course, I was only doing it for an emotional discharge.
I made a criticism at that moment of that sonerism, a very harsh
criticism to the point that I had to delete it later the blog, when
I became a little more known what the blog called it. I don'
t remember. And I don' t remember, but I didn' t
care. You were going up to the writing. He wrote one of what
he could do today, what he could know today as an opinion note.
And, well, I was writing alone because no one read to me.
It wasn' t basically good abrim and twitter at the time, but it
' s preparing, it' s not that you wrote. On the contrary,
it was your sublimation there if not you some who paint, others who
make music and there you put out. Your anger your assent, yes,
my outrage with csnerism in a way that today let' s say no after
I' ve never c for myself then I could be And there, then
yes, there, a producer once wrote me on Twitter and made me happen
I found the blog. Obviously, I talked a lot about current affairs,
politics, economics and Mira tells me I dropped a guest on a radio in
Rosario. I don' t remember what it was. Tells me I have
a free slot. You don' t want to go out to talk about
current affairs and I was cheered up as a five- minute adventure. That
producer then kept calling me as a guest several radios started listening to other producers
and you name it. I don' t prefer not to name him,
because he' s a friend who stayed with me for good. Better have
him anonymously with who I' m talking to. Of course, I'
m very grateful. And he started Emiliano, it' s called the pipe
name. I was carrying and you were going and giving up when it was
going to be the radio. I don' t know if I was giving
up, but good you were giving up in the sense of a day kind
of making a profile that natural, very natural, of course because, in
fact, so natural that one of the few conditions that or of the issues
that I discussed to join the government was to remain me and not change.
And that' s what I always kept. And I want to ask you
this, because I always doubted you really are like that, I swear to
you, I come back when you talk in the morning, but let me
tell you, I feel like you' re talking coffee, but when you
turn around, they make you a Fabian compilation, for example, that boy
keeps going, yeah, it feels like he' s been asking me well
that I end up having phenomen but it' s a phenomenon, because I
think they end up being. There' s a need and it' s
the people on the street that' s a double- faced jano to me.
People in the house wouldn' t be without ador or when I come
across someone first who call me Fabian, how Fabian is doing. And in
fact, many think it' s kind of a sketch, that it'
s fixed and that we do it for him to win followers, and I
to be a fun time at a conference. And the truth is that not
you that I tell you what happened to you when I saw you at first
hard you answered him a couple of this half- pink said uy this is
going to end badly I tell you and I don' t know if it
' s going to serve Javier, because this kid is going to blow up
a shack, he' s going to come back to some journalist. And
this ends in the saddles. But, obviously, you' re obviously familiar
with the skinny ones that go there, the look that goes to the colleagues
that go there and understand your game. It' s not agresi it'
s not personal or you' re going to hurt me to see a but
it was before when the media was there. It was never personal, either.
And indeed, in fact, I have outside of that moment of relaxation
that I have that is the conference. I have a very good relationship with
them looking, a very good relationship. They come by my office for coffee,
I say. We have an excellent relationship. Some others don' t.
Actually. Fabian, for example, a guy who never did. He
looked me out of some whatsapp to ask me something, but he never said
that I hand you a coffee chat we tell me something that is happening so
that I can have a note ever and others yes, this is a very
good relationship. It is true that the rod came in the subsoil you were
not before living with characters in pink house who were, who treated them badly,
who denied us, who did not allow us to work. Then the
rod was very low. Regardless of that, yes, I' m like
that, I was always like that and the day I can' t do
that. I' m going to ask you something else that I always want
to understand. Your art can be an art. I call them art at
work, which is. It has no technique, it has no techniques,
it is not an artistic officer, I would say because it comes from art.
No, it doesn' t have a technique, you don' t
have a protocol. You train him to that art. I mean, you
get home. You read some kind of for example, I would work.
There' s a book I recommend. I don' t know if you
read the copi logic Not there you have all the fallacies. When you study
logic. In philosophy we study the logic of copi hello, be it dominity,
vaculum, this fallacy, adverecundian, etcetera, etcetera. Miley uses many
fallacies permanently fallacies. Then you with those fallacies disarm. What the guy comes
to tell you, you train that technique. When you go to the bull
when you go in the morning, you know what you' re going to
communicate and then what comes to you you also have fun to see that every
day is something new. Not for me. That has two parts. The
part says what we or the team of mine call. The proactive part,
let' s say where I report, where I know the initial monologue of
two, three, five or ten minutes. Obviously, we choose the topics
and develop them, because there are very complex issues like I can be energy,
where one inevitably has to learn from the issues of the State give.
There are others who don' t manage them that I do the economy or
poop their policy issues that I handle in a very me way. It is
very simple to explain about that, because, in fact, I did it
for ten twelve, fifteen years, after all the questions and answer part that
for me is the most beautiful adrenaline I can have during the day, it
gives me how it has a nice moment. You enjoy that It' s
totally adrenalinic. One hundred percent, but I' m sorry you know what
they can do to see you stay is a go- round. It'
s a de jour thing, a lotto epa clear yes tilidad that you can
get and good. Otherwise, I wouldn' t have no, no,
I wouldn' t feel adrenaline and you like to do it. I love
car. I always liked that because he blindly trusted my common sense. Blindly
my common sense. It can' t fail. Common sense cannot fail.
So it' s hard that having common sense like I have, you can
ask me some questions that I can' t answer right now. Common sense
is what you have to do to lie down or abbreviate in the day-
to- day on the street and how you are there. You walk the
street, because common sense is changing your common sense. There is an established
common sense, there is an established moral, etcetera, etcetera, in established
custom, but you change the noise. You saw that you can feel in
the middle class. Today what you can feel in three months. How you
train that good. That is more difficult because those who join the government and
I understand that it has been so with all governments, the first thing you
start to lose incredibly in a liberal government, is your freedom. Explain to
me that' s very nice. How' s that good. What you
begin to lose is your freedom because you begin not to be able to go
to the places where you went before, because the street is no longer what
it was before, because you have to have care that you didn' t
have before, because you have to follow protocols that you didn' t even
imagine existed before. Then you' re changing the dynamics of every day.
I' m not walking 20 blocks to my house anymore. I mean,
you take other precautions and they' re safe to take away your freedom,
which is probably the biggest cost I' ve ever done. You were walking
a little coffee or you were going to the supermarket. You could say exactly
you' re still going or you can' t go well on weekends.
I live away from the city on weekdays. I live in the city on
weekends. I usually go to a place 70 kilometers from Acá, where I
move with absolute freedom in the city. I don' t have much time
to do it either, but clearly I' m much more restricted. Let
' s say clear and that in fact, the other day, when we
went with the ministers to Pertuti to spend the goat for coffee in front of
May square. Well, let' s say a natural, we' re
going to have a coffee or tongo a coffee and we all go out and
I didn' t remember when it was the last time I had done it
freely to walk three blocks let' s say without thinking about anything and I
ask you a question. Not to see you is to say it, and
it' s another thing to live it. That' s what I always
say. You have to fight that atmosphere and you' re sure it would
be brave. No. No, no, no, no, I didn
' t say that. No. No, no, because out there the
theme is that, of course this comes from an episode of violence that lived
barely assumed that where I don' t remember it, not because I didn
' t mention it, but in the amateurism that one has in all this,
because we, if there is something that we are not, we are
not politicians, we are ordinary people. That one day ideas penetrated, so
that we ended up ruling Argentina. But we' re not politicians. Personally,
I don' t want to do it either, regardless of how this
goes on, I don' t want to do it. And the truth
is that, well, in a recital I had the tickets and in that
I repeat, in that amateurism that has one at first, well I went
with it I had taken them out six months before all this happened. I
went to the country to see Fito Paez and well, very good reception of
the people. But, of course, the exit was waiting for me.
They hit me tight, they attacked me, and from there I took another
kind of drills. How you react to the scratche. No need to react
narrowly, no matter what happens. You don' t have to react,
because the clack is that the crache takes you to the limit filming you and
trying to react. And that' s not going to happen, it'
s not going to happen to me, and it' s not going to
happen to me I understand that no other official who thinks that could happen to
him. But, well, that' s the paradox. Not because it
' s true, that' s liberal, it' s amazing, but
you' re going to learn freedom, you' re losing not all of
it, of course. But anyway, the reception I have on the street
is excellent. You must have a good street. It is not excellent what
does not prevent one from unfailingly taking care to avoid bad moments. Sure,
sure, you avoid them. But the reception is good because of the little
that one, that one travels, the little that one walks and the little
that one shares with freedom. Indeed, the reception is very good. How
far is your office from Javier' s? It' s like you'
re going on three stairs and another one hundred and fifty meters. Well,
I' m still with you and I can ask you another question about your
relationship, about the relationship with Javier or at least that you see politically,
I' m interested to know how because you' re your face when you
show up, you' re the face of the government you prepare for the
issues, that is, you prepare them with your team you' re armed,
you' re organized. It' s going to be today fal say
that I worked it, you bring three and you tell this you pass this
regasification in is this boat is worth so much in the cubic meter so much
you' re barking it with the theme. Yeah, let me see,
of course, back there I have a team that, luckily, is a
team. Let' s just say lucky, people, what' s going
on there They' re about to bring the clock, because this me without
the clock, I can' t, it doesn' t work. Now,
yeah, you' re not gonna get any better. It' s
been a long time since this thing worked without a watch. Or I don
' t remember when the committee started to happen to you, but it started
to happen to me if you bank you' re an option. I have
my socissive disorders, which we have a lot, no, I don'
t have much or I have the air, I have the microphone that recently
runs it. People, start the a and program. Well, the company
' s betting time clock supported you. If you don' t have it,
I' m never going to make it, because to see it now,
obviously we' ve been using the cell phone for so many years,
so it' s not the decorating element. No, no, anyone you
have that you have a watch. I' ve worn watches without a stack
for a long time. Yeah, but I have to. I have to
have a watch. But because now another interview begins. Why tell me,
why not. I don' t know I don' t know I don
' t know. No, but it' s how it came. Let
' s say with clothes, let' s say for me it' s
part of the dress, apart from the presence, part of the security and
how you' re with punctuality, over time, you connect to that.
I was always the most punctual guy in the world. Now that started to
change. It doesn' t matter now, but the punctual profit. If
I told you when I was sixteen, I' d see you at four.
I was always on time, and it always irritated me a lot.
The impuntuality comes later and I was going to get angry. In fact,
I probably would' ve stood you up, followed me. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. And a question. The clock that' s like this doesn
' t have any value that it means, it doesn' t have.
It' s not a role, but like this, it' s not
a medium clock, but yes, it' s not exactly a role if
you do, don' t mark how much you do that you use,
even if you' re the clock, but don' t dial the time
forever or for a little while, that I didn' t ever care what
never mattered to you to feel the clock, to feel the crazy serious that
interesting about the monnalyzing always of the Manegia, always. Well, you were
telling me this about your team, you' re working, with the team
I have, a team back there, barbarous of professionals and people who put
it all in at 24 hours because, in short, here I sit with
you and something happened five minutes ago. I have to be clear and the
truth is that there is a multiplicity of incredible issues within what can happen in
what we care about is the national spectrum. So yes, indeed, they
work twenty- four hours seeing what happens, what doesn' t happen and
putting so much of each of the situations wrong. I would be interested to
chat with you Manuel this topic that I propose, which is to talk about
why Javier transforms into this the present Argentina and apart a kind of different leader.
First, because I think you understand communications. Second, you started thinking
about power if you had that blog and I wrote if it was because you
were interested in what was going on beyond your nose life. I started to
realize it. I know Javier' s known him forever. Of the first
Manuel program first, but the first, one of the first was ours,
mine, loose animals. It was a mere coincidence that he arrived. I
didn' t go, I was one of the first and I always had
a closeness with him to being when he needed it. I think that is
what has kept us and continues to support us. United He was one day
with a media blackout, Manuel Total, but Manuel Total Total and came in
eura. He made an extraordinary note and they started calling him back, because
of course if the producer follows the explosion, if this guy came out in
all the courts, and I' m gonna call him Miley again. But
I want to tell you this. I started to realize it. I traveled
at night and I was going to see my dad at that time. Actually,
the house of my going had already passed away, that the chabono that
worked in the service station and the delivery man, but especially the type of
the beach, of the service station fanatical of my law and broke me.
The egg with milia and the madman my law. We' re going with
Miley and my law and my law and the humblest thing you saw, this
guy is stealing the political subject from Peronism. It can' t be pinche
pam boom me. You have an explanation of what happened, because we never
saw what happened. Today he is President and has a pregnance to the most
there are many people, but from below he wants what the least have.
What happened, Manuel Well, it all happened. I think the answer I
have to give you is long and, in fact, I don' t
think the whole program would reach me to try to answer it. I think
that' s where Argentina comes from. There comes a process of brutal,
brutal devastation And I always tell a talk I had with a friend when I
was eighteen, in a discussion about the more right, the more left,
and at that time I would ask him that I think it was at the
time of the rúa, that ultimately, it didn' t matter how many
poor people, but that what mattered is that one isn' t, that
one makes all the effort not to be and that actually allows one to live
well. And he was asking my friend in that scotch talk that that was
fake, that that couldn' t be given, because, in fact,
where there were getting poorer, what was going to end up happening is that
you weren' t going to be able to live because effectively, you weren
' t going to be able to go out on the street. I was
always convinced of my idea that it did not matter what was going on on
the other side of my window and at a time that I cannot identify when
it was understood that indeed, my friend was right, even though it was
the left, that it was all that I did not preach and all that
I hated was the ideology of my friend that today that is still one of
my best friends or my best friend. And at the same time I realized
that I was right and that I was not going to be able to be
happy or develop here. No matter what I do, it doesn' t
matter if I was the best student, the best professional, if luck was
with me, if here gave a fortune, this wasn' t going to
work. Okay. As a matter of fact, I' ll say.
I have, like every young person in my generation, like every person in
my generation, when I was young, we had ideas closer to Peronism.
If you want to, and I understood that it really had to be changed.
It had to be changed because at some point he was going to have
children, at that time he had no children and those children were actually going
to leave the country, because those children were going to be born with the
conception that one could not live in an impoverished country. And that' s
where I started to change my mind. That' s where I began to
understand that this had somehow changed it. I never really felt that that solution
was going to be given by participating in a government no matter what ideology.
You never imagined it. Not until 19 November. I didn' t actually
imagine it on the 20th of November, already Javier Miley elected in the morning.
I didn' t think so. I imagined it in the afternoon when
I came to greet him, but not before, And well and the weather
today I am more and more convinced that, indeed, you cannot live in
an impoverished country and in a country that has no future. It doesn'
t matter how it goes with you. This is not a matter of masters
and why, why, why, why he did it or And I think
that my thing happened to a lot of people it brings give it what I
think happened to me in other times and with other thoughts and in other circumstances
it was happening to a lot of people I saw. I believe that,
however, the pandemic was a point of infection. I believe that if the
pandemic had not occurred, that I wish it had not happened, because we
would have avoided thousands and thousands and thousands of deaths in Argentina. But I
believe that the pandemic allowed populism to last no more than ten or fifteen years
in power. I think we were, we had a certain re- elected
Alberto and we would have had more than eight years. I don' t
end up in doubt, because Argentina still believed, many Argentines believed in that
fantasy of the present state, the state takes care of you, the state
is there with you and it' s the only way to save you and
have I think that after what happened with the quarantine, with the olive photo,
with the vaccination, there goes more than the vaccination of olive trees.
Trevip' s bacon is interesting, as you put it to me. The
photo is absolutely rupturistic in modern political history. It was for you. The
photo is rupturistic because in an olive photo of the FAE the veil is dropped,
the mask of populism falls. It' s not poor. You as
I accumulate wealth, or accumulate party, or accumulate freedom. Or yes,
of course, he was a breaker and of course he was a point of
infection. But you notice that at that moment and I link it to my
thought, I had had many years before this had to be changed. What
happened to the young people was that they saw their grandparents die, their parents
melt and they saw each other, they came to their peers, they could
not study, because they are the younger ones saw their grandparents die, sink
and they themselves could not study, their companions, they could not advance in
their studies or without having quality study, or they closed schools or universities and
they saw the face of populism. Populism is that. Populism kills you,
impoverishes you, melts you and haunts you, because it' s the only
way to survive populism, and populism needs some other questions, which is to
lock you up. O O O O O O O O O s s
s s the world let us say Cuba because it survived so many years,
so many decades, the Castro and the dictatorship, because they did not let
you see that there was on the other side of the island. And populism
has that, populism doesn' t let you see on the other side,
on the other side of the border, because it needs you to live a
reality, but it also needs resources. And what happened to you in the
pandemic was you ran out of resources. Then it was an explosive cocktail.
They saw your grandparents killed or died, they saw the boys die, their
grandparents died, their parents melted, they saw them without education and, in
addition, they were cut off from the world and without resources. That state
I was telling you I was not there and it was absolutely disruptive. That
moment. It was disruptive and I think Javier Miley emerges. It would have
emerged the same at some point, because populism is doomed to always collapse populism,
because one day you ran out of resources to dilapidate resources. You have
the fridge full, yes, you can devote yourself to consuming what is on
the hillside. In a moment the fridge if you don' t work to
fill it, you end up emptying again and you end up starving. And
that' s populism. So my law some things. I' m telling
you the truth, I' m a friend of his. Then, of
course, they have some Sejo, but I think he would have been the
same President in a moment, he would have won the street and public opinion
anyway. You opened me up here, because that' s exactly where I
was going. There' s always an argument about it. Politics or political
expression is carried on the horse of the time, that is, the time
when a epoch changes, when something is dislocated, when an invention appears,
or when there is a new technique or a new knowledge makes appear a new
way of doing politics or if it is politics, a new form of politics
that transforms an example epoch, never anyone had been able to imagine the appearance
of communism, if the steam engine had not appeared, because the steam engine
generated the industry, which generated proletariat, which generated, among other things,
the explosion in Russia and which then generated half of the world, on one
side, on the other. This is debatable and no one will agree.
Now my doubt and I want to bollock it with you we outline an idea.
It' s Javier Emerge for a changing world. Then people like him
appear. Or he is a disruption, it is a fault in the matrix,
as in the speech of the architect who speaks with neo and tells him
if I am the architect, I am the one who I am doing.
The matrix ta trapasa that you ran faster than the others are faster. Besides,
you' re a system failure and you have to be eliminated. My
question is Javier, what is a matrix failure, because the guy arrives and
today receives it the chat Openhe receives it, Sugar, receives it in the
great leaders of the world and is like a kind of world figure. It
comes because the world changed and put it to him. Or this is the
first of others. I don' t hope it' s the first of
others. I believe that behind everything in the matrix, as you call it,
there must be a lot of right ideas. Behind the right man,
there' s got to be the right ones and there' s room You
' re brought back from every mistake of the Matrix. In case it is.
No, no, but it' s a right word for you.
It' s not like let me get this straight,' cause it'
s in my mouth. It' s not negative. No. No,
no, no, for no one you didn' t understand it take it
is a map that comes dominating the world in Argentina, a Matrix, but
neither this classical political populist who split radicals, let' s change Peronism,
Radicals change Peronism at least forty of the years of the eighty- three to
here and suddenly they occur, anomaly the Matrix and appear, Javier appears,
There does not appear an extreme Peronist. You saw the subject. It'
s good. In fact, in Matrix you what you see in a moment
is that some people, knowing that St Matrix existed and that they were living
a fantasy, wanted to follow, should follow the famous two pills? The
famous two pills? Meanwhile, as for that matrix, it promises them a
pleasant life and, ultimately, here what happened was that. Let' s
also say Peronism, while people were fooled by promising that they were the only
way to have something, because on top of that is that. Not only
did they promise you something, a crumb. Well, it was all working
out. Then it seems to me that what happened wasn' t what he
was a mistake in the matrix. I think the matrix broke and no one
understood why the matrix broke. We did understand. I did get it,
and I understood it a lot before it broke. Come on, let'
s get some space. You understood that before it broke, because you saw
that this didn' t have to go on like this. And I was
the first one that I was wrong in the two thousand fifteen and when I
was one of the first ones he said they didn' t come back anymore,
I was wrong. I thought the matrix had indeed been broken there.
Then I understood that in the end Nio was not a child, he was
not the Savior. How you thought and you understood that politics had been broken
before many people did not know if before the olfall died before this last episode
and Javier Miley seemed to me to represent that, represented the tiredness, represented
the awakening of a society that said gentlemen, enough, have ruined the life
of us, of our children, of our parents. It' s over.
Well, I' m asking you, I' m still talking about
communication. I like to talk to you a lot I understand smelling I feel
that slowly in these last twenty- six hours, a little more ten days
or so, not much, but the potentiometer of the lime has turned a
little bit more from the traditional and classical media to name it whatever you want.
Not much, eh, but the potentiometer has accelerated already. That speed
isn' t that red, but the car' s already started speeding up.
It' s every day pin ping. Today, for example, I
believe that all subjects are cultural facilities. Today the debate about the installation in
society was the fault that it lacks genea imagine the chabona that in Bahía Blanca
went to carry genesebo in Pringle went to carry genese and had no one with
whom. I get angry with the linings that were before or with these linings
that haven' t made a goal yet, because that' s how the
angry guy thinks. She doesn' t think I' m mad at Peronism
very well and she' s angry. That' s very good. Where
you' re not seeing this or at least or I see it paranoidally.
I think we' ll say everything. I think it happened to me when
I was in the media. It seems to me that there are media that
work in a more honest way than others and within each of the media there
are journalists who act more honestly than others. But that' s what I
deserved It was always like that. And with what you connect, I go
the truth, the word, but with what you connect, the adjective or
the word honesty, with his political ideas or with something else, because I
could tell you with the greatest objectivity. The objective does not exist, but
with the greatest possible objectivity. And it seems to me that when you see
or do sapping that you notice who does it for us. If you criticize
us, we would probably tell you look not the truth that this is not
so, but that you do it from an intellectual honesty that you actually think.
That thing that you' re not in surplus or tight by the owner
of the medium to have to tell you this or that thing. And there
are other situations that you see are a little more complex to analyze, because
you don' t understand why one day is also another day is wrong or
because one day they think one thing and the other day, about the same
thing, they think different. I, on Sunday I have a note with
an important medium that I am also thinking that this topic will be discussed.
I' m not going to quote you, but I encourage you to fly
it and I' m going to steal your idea, at least to understand,
it could be an of but I don' t. How do you
respond to this idea that Javier attacks journalism? It doesn' t attack journalism.
That' s part of some journalists' lie. Why not see that
he doesn' t attack Javier Millete. In fact, with you he took
barbarous and with a lot of journalists he has an excellent relationship. In fact,
I don' t know if other Presidents have written with journalists as directly
as they do Millay, and I think that' s what you might want
to refer to. That' s what many said, well, the ex
- abrupts with this or that journalist or the comments on Twitter on that issue.
And if you look at every one of those quotation marks you defined,
just now. That' s when there' s a lie through which compromises
if that lie had been about a sensitive subject, it would have created a
problem. And, besides, when they mess with their personal life, what
if I, in a journalist' s role, mess with your son,
how would you react and this exceeds that. That is not the President of
the Nation, because, indeed, what he does is to be as he
always was, because if someone pretends to change him because he was President,
they were wrong when they voted this listen to me You knew him long ago.
It wasn' t always the same. Now someone wanted me to change.
He' s not gonna do it. It wasn' t going to
be December 10th, it' s not going to be December 10th, and
it' s not going to in four years. He' s gonna refer
to this because I don' t know him as well as you do.
It was always like that. It' s true guy. He' s
always attacked himself with lies, and that' s how it is. He
' s not going to field batio and he' s not going to change.
Why they want me to change, what' s the reason for the
President to change. No, not me, I want to tell you the
matrix. I could say because to be President you have to have another way,
etcetera, etcetera. And he' s President. And there it is
with fifty- six, fifty- seven percent positive image. Today at least
stop asking for what you always asked for. They always asked for a president.
While they always asked for president don' t be honest and always ask
with a president change each one at the time of assuming and here won'
t happen. It' s not gonna happen to him, and I hope
it doesn' t happen to any of the officials. Personally. In fact,
when I find out, say, or in a very atypical talk,
the idea begins to form that I pass to the government to be in the
ranks of the front line of government. Let' s say the first thing
I said was if they' re gonna ask me to change half a millimeter.
What I am is how I express myself or some other question that does
my forms forget, for I do not add up and it seems to me
that it is a position that happens to have all the functioning of the government
when it happens that we are not used to first a government of non-
politicians and we are not companies and we are not used to people who simply
grab a microphone and tell the truth that I know. Then it may surprise
you or you may fall worse than if I came here to flatter you and
say that you are beautiful and that your children are barbarians and that your work
is great and that you had a future. I' m not gonna tell
you around. I' ll tell you if I' m sorry, if
I think about it and that' s what I believe, and if I
don' t, I' ll tell you. Like it or not.
And that led to a lie from some journalist. The least we have to
ask the President is that he actually reacts, because if he does not react,
it is because President Cambilla is not who he was. And that'
s where you' re going to have to stop trusting him, that is,
when he' s no longer my law until you keep this ice cream
yourself. But, of course, because he, since I' ve known
him like that, doesn' t ask him to be what he' s
not going to do. Just why don' t you see it. I
didn' t stay thinking maybe here people are whatever it is with you the
subject is thinking if if Guillermo isn' t a little something that completes that
for politics you wear traditional politics or traditional demands the matrix, asks him.
Give us normal, give us something we can understand by a known knowledge,
by a known knowledge, by a known technique. Don' t change everything.
Give us something where we can hold on. Give us something. Perhaps
William will come to complete a little that which politics is demanding may be yes,
why not. And that does not escape naturality and does not escape high
activity and total. I remember. I three or two or three weeks,
just the other day I remembered him with him having coffee in his office,
two or three weeks of the pass I went to dinner with him at the
house. Only the two with whom Javier Miley, who was still not and
had not passed the steps and at a time of the talk, grabs the
Table and tells me this Table that you see here, says to me I
do not like it. The truth is, I' d rather not have
it, and the truth is, it doesn' t match my tastes.
But you know what happens. The table is here and we have to eat
and we have to talk and we have to do it around this table,
because we can' t change it Today, I don' t understand the
table that politics or the state is there. The way to do politics is
there, the way to run the state is there. The way you have
to go forward the country is there. And there are things that you think
to me that I like to still have to watch the 30th of June,
which is the next cleaning of employees, to know who can be discharged,
who can not, what contracts is terminated, who can not. This permanent
struggle against a bureaucracy that only slows you down, is not letting you do
it is putting sticks on the wheel and not. But it' s there
and it' s there. You have to live with that and I don
' t answer you for what you refer to or maybe what you left behind
and politics. This is it. The cabinet has to be there. There
must be people who are useful for each of the issues that you need to
govern. There must be people who know, who know how to talk to
the old sis and labras in the pink house. I' m basically in
the past home. Ask what it has to do with you clearly personal how
you work. The issue of guilt. You tell me that in June there
' s going to be what' s going to happen to the employees,
there' s going to be a new employee drop. In June there will
be good, there is a universe of employees that are under review, the
famous seventy zero that announced at the beginning of the government, of the President,
of all that is subject to revision and that can some moment be made
of casualties of those seventy thousand and fifteen zero that continued to decline. And
the truth is that the work is very hard, because you have to do
a very surgical job, because the only one we want to fire is that
one works and is so militant that there were many frederate a second. And
if I' m militant and I work, what do you do militant things
and work not to see not us. No. I work with conclusioners and
happy work with wantonnerists, because they are technicians, because they are people who
add up, people who bet on the work of o. It has nothing
to do with what you sciences politically, that you work with the generalist,
something else, with one you have so militant look I work the two you
see me every day at home Rosa. I pass if I make you so
the one that ne a particular character, maybe I was wrong and maybe I
work with a lot of peronist court, not so much court that that nerist,
because it needs is more irrational, then it is more difficult, maybe
it will be useful for the function. But on the other side of that
job, you have a guy who' s having a hard time putting a
plate of food on top of the table and who' s paying his taxes.
Then put this thing away from the cup. There' s a guy
who runs out of no no so the other side has a guy who eats
us. That' s what I was going to ask you. You feel
that there is no guilt, because, on the contrary, what we are
doing is or are going on a path in which we want that guy,
who doesn' t have to eat tomorrow, to start eating from a mind.
And part of that is cleaning up the state, because the state has
to understand, which is another question that the matrix convinced you since you were
born the state you. Indeed, it is a free matter that is there,
that it does not matter that no one pays for it and not on
the other side. You have forty- seven million Argentines who support it and
of those forty- seven million Argentines, you have five million Argentines who do
not eat every day. And you' ve got a million three hundred thousand
kids under the age of fourteen who don' t eat every day. And
the person who has a militant job, who doesn' t add value to
the state, who doesn' t work or who isn' t or who
doesn' t hate what you come up with, is being held up by
those people who don' t eat and it' s not fair. That
makes it our fault not to have the bureaucracy give you more speed to correct
all these real inequities that the system has. That' s the real inequity
that someone who doesn' t have to gnaw on the other side a militant
job. There' s no reason for that to be flaking around. The
other day, with Laura de Marco, she answered me at the touch,
I tell her. We could draw an analogy between the social plan and the
pattern. The social plan as a permanent bureaucratized question that keeps you so that
and you lose your ability to work. You' re losing your ability.
There is the example in his book of a Toyota operator, that the chabon
had lived a little one, that had lived all his life, of pattern,
of paut Mira, that failed all his life, had lived of social
plan. And when Toyota takes it, he didn' t come to work
Tuesdays and Thursdays and they said" che". But he had to come
every day. Not as you all say, you don' t work every
day, because culturally it was detonated what they had done in their head shut.
When we banned human, the Home Office was not because we didn'
t understand the future and we didn' t realize that there was work that
could be done in the house or symple that we were meeting and the next
day we have only at home Rosa. There were seven hundred people making an
end to entering then in some way to sort it out. That' s
because I repeat you again, because on the other side there are a lot
of people who don' t morph every day as they correspond. But let
me go or you already have that scheme. Let me go to the question.
I said when these kids attack traditional journalism. Then I want to talk
a little bit about communication with the theme of the guideline and this drooling of
the guideline came out as an analogy of the social plan. You don'
t cut me off from the social plan and I put sixty zero people in
front of development. I didn' t come out I' ll line you
up to wait for the best veil. You' re not going to go
to the reporters to make you a camp, but you' re going to
dance. Manuel you know that when you said that, I said, these
kids don' t know where they' re getting into it. You'
re getting into a three- phase three eighty and it' s okay.
It' s okay. How much I put you from December zero zero,
literally zero weight. Since the central administration we spend zero weight on the guideline.
You feel like you weren' t informed. No. No. Then
I' ll discuss whether you' re well or poorly informed. I'
m telling you, you lacked information. You lacked contact every day with government
issues. No, which I' m not gonna get the devil' s
lawyer to hear your answer. Be is even more forceful. I could say
well yes, topic of vaccination campaigns, deng et cetera. The yess because
the law allows me to make them free of charge. I made them and,
in fact, I have a lot of elements to make them for free,
not only on TV on the radio, but I also have thousands and
thousands of screens in the middle of transportation. I have a lot of elements
to communicate now that before, the only thing that was done was, of
course, to create means to lead guidelines. Well, I don' t
know about that. We don' t. The pattern' s not coming
back. Well at some point I don' t know the decision today is
that there is no pattern to see, while obviously we have this poverty in
Argentina. You rational I' m going to quote completely. It would be
absolutely rational for me to return the pattern and it' s fine and what
do you think of trans journalism I think there are two types of payment.
I imagine I don' t know, but I imagine there are two kinds
of guidelines. Not the official pattern, let' s say the one that
you know how I advertise you here in eura and good you charge for that
on the part of the state and I understand that later I imagine that I
should also see a money for directing certain journalists that was escaping from that scheme,
from that formal scheme. Let' s say pattern. It' s
one of my imaginations, but I guess it' s not just the state
' s pattern. I think there were other schemes as well, and let
us not forget that the guideline I always speak to you national guideline, but
you have province and so, but apart, there is no talk of a
pattern of the Cartel of Sinaloa. If you are led by a province,
a municipality, or who you are if you make the determination as a state.
But I think I' m telling you. I know you only today,
but you have a speed to play casparonian. You just dialed gnomes.
You dream a lot, I mean, I dream a lot lately sounds more
g before and that' s what you dreamt of and that' s sound
with alternative payment schemes. Yeah, I don' t think so, but
I mean it could have been. And, well, in that case,
I' d know better. You' re more of a journalist, more
of a ras and more years of experience than I am. Memo was a
Tuck and I' m leaving in Sani' s media and you dreamt that.
I do a lot of dream about that sopican ten widths ago that I
am that listen to what you see from traditional media. You think there'
s a shift in the way people are informed. I think so. I
believe that traditional media are on the way to merging with the new media.
And it seems to me that that' s a matter of time and it
' s going to happen as we know them, they' re going to
disappear. Another thing Javier breaks is direct communication. Since x did never see
that. No. No, no, no, no. Perhaps Trump had
a scheme that now comes to mind, a similar system for communicating. Okay.
The thing is, we' re a generation with good. In fact,
I got to the media. In fact, I got to where I
am today. By networks, by networks, by networks, on the one
hand, it doesn' t matter, by the new way of communicating and
then. My jump, if you want a little bit of that little popularity,
was via Twitter, the old Twitter, of the one hundred and forty
characters, because yes also start with one hundred and forty after it has spread
two eighty and it seems to me that the media will undergo a change.
And aside because today the media as such is not viable. Not half the
old one and a half of the old man' s viable hands. So,
today, with a little camera there is a good condition of the Internet.
You do your own show with a part, a thousand- messis,
a very small part. The cost that you have doing one in a big
TV studio, what sense does none make. I have six and seven minutes
left. Unfortunately, he flew almost an hour hand in the super hitch but
other cultural battle stuff. Everyone stays in this cultural battle, et cetera,
et cetera. I believe I read and I am asking you what the cultural
battle is in the day- to- day, in the day- to
- day on the installant We, as a society, usually think semiotically,
think with signs. We are used to reaction, action with signs or symbol,
a traffic light in roo I see the red light and brake is not
under explanation. You must stop, not park, not park, because this
is an area. That miotic is a symbol. The media traditionally report by
symbols, symbol sign social plans. Now the whole organization of social plans steals
traditional politics, castes my law and all this crazy distraught government learns the good
medium, but it' s like the battle of installing the posters. That
' s why I' m trying all the time and that' s what
my saying made famous the phrase on your show in this one you had in
America of hand human interviews when he said this is clear. This is the
battle between those who labor, in those who pretend to live from those who
labor. The country was in the middle. With that logic, it'
s a question. A lot of people live in the state in Argentina.
Now that you' re in pretty much that idea, look at how you
got that idea of Javier' s phrase on our animal show, you said
he saw it there and he' s talking. Many astars have been divided
between those who work and those who live in the state before the Argentine congressman
Este. But you can live laboring the state. Of course, how do
you come up with a Belli Boni, how do you come up with a
moyano? How it occurs to you that there are these characters who accompany us
twenty, thirty, forty years ago, fifty years driving people, driving workers
on one side of the other side. But you can' t leave with
a lot of needs anymore. I don' t represent truck drivers and design
anyone, but it hasn' t represented anyone for a long time. They
say they represent someone, but they don' t represent anyone. You think
that the burrow that rises again top of mena feels represented by this unionism.
Or think about the one who collects a social plan because he really needs it,
because life doesn' t play a bad game for him It' s
because they want Biliboni. Now it' s reasonable that all those people are
against what we do, because if we' re doing well, they disappear.
Now they' re going to tell that the word disappearance. It disappears
in the sense of being an actor, as a social actor, as an
actor of representation. They keep the usufruct of the poor, not four final
minutes. And maybe this is really the stamp of the talk, of the
first talk we' re going to hear of several, because I' d
like us to get together from time to time to talk, to throw in
neuro where you say if you are doing well and succeed and retire a matrix
of many years, if you thought that, ultimately, it was going to
be solved only with biology, that one day you would be great, you
would turn ninety hundred years and a good day if you were going to run
unfailingly for natural issues of the scene. But there it goes and it seems
to me that it is also going forward It is very good that it is
so, that people begin to see what ruined them, what ruined Argentina for
them. The question goes when they will be allowed to do something, Emmanuel,
because they do not have to see now, for example, profits in
the provinces of the South. Nacho Torres and company wanted a discharge to seal
there to be given to the May Pact. I am company. Let us
make every effort to ensure that it is not the May Pact, etc.
I mean, you don' t feel like it' s time now where
the bracing saw you remember the count. I think to say, there'
s the staloon that hit the moment you' re there about to win or
get beat. I mean, you think they' re gonna loosen up sometime.
He' s gonna win. He' s gonna win. Yeah,
I' m sure he' ll win. No, no, the times
are God' s. Times don' t handle it. But it'
s going to win because it' s very elementary. What people voted for
and not 20 years ago. People voted for it six months ago. That
' s going to be won because it' s part of the battle that
was won. You don' t have nine November. You don' t
have to shut this down. You have no doubt that Javier ends his term.
Why shouldn' t I finish it. They don' t remind me
of the reason. All that has come to speak Matrix, the system that
before you tell me half of Argentina lived by the State and there are fifteen
million Argentines watching the State fifteen million. That' s not people. People
understood. People understood what happened in Argentina. In fact, look what we
say. No one can deny that people lost part of their purchasing power these
months with private inflation and people understood, understood that this is part of starting
to tell the truth, starting to take the trash down the carpet and start
correcting everything they did. That explains to the guarismos of fifty- five percent
of support. There' s no reason. What' s going on.
Something happened that had never happened in Argentine history, which is that a presidential
candidate in campaign tells you something that later in December begins to fulfill. I
had never given him good, not to speak to Alberto' s unpresentable Not
to promise you the grill on, the hillside fills the twenty percent dement of
retirees, with the interests of the lics. And I don' t know
how much pava gives more, but in general, one promised fantasies, politics
promised fantasies and then you failed. And because, in fact, governance was
always given in Argentina by a small group that was in the Casa Rosada and
another small group that was in the Congress and another small group that was perhaps
in the justice system or in the unions, and they decided that we should
move on. It didn' t matter what happened to the people and they
went to Argentina. Today that governance is given by the support of the people,
because politics does not want you to go ahead because traditional politics is at
risk today, because it understands that if you do what needs to be done,
you think that you do not know that we are doing things well.
They are more convinced than we are that we are doing things right. Traditional
politics, politics, old politics, are defeated that we are doing things that
explain why they are. Don' t sit around waiting for the body to
pass through the door of your house and they' re starting to act because
they know we' re doing things right and they know we' re doing
things right. This, in fact, ends with not only a re-
elected millay, but also ends with them outside the political landscape. Listen,
I' m gonna tell you something about you that I think and I said
it to the i the other day. I want to first thank Vale for
the moons, go south, they' re cakes, Welsh, they'
re delicious. Thanks because they' re watching us all day. Thank you
both. We need you to like us. Friends and friends on the other
side, I told you. If you don' t like us at 20
: 30 today, Ricardito Alfondo will knock on the door. They don'
t even want radicalism fast. This isn' t on me. That'
s where it was an exaggeration in no prbols. I played me the other
day. You' d look like a potable guy to run a cabinet.
I' ll tell you why I justify it in front of you. Yours
first, because you obviously don' t wrinkle. I don' t know,
it must be hard to take you on and hurry or squeeze you.
I don' t know if you saw with that look that you' re
half cold I don' t know if I' m gonna get stuck in
it. I don' t know if it should be. I have a
pretty sweet look. Yeah, no, no, they' re pretty spicy,
pretty sweet. The thing is if you like it. You like it
now that you' re a spokesman. You have an important assignment because you
communicate the headquarters of the government, but you would like to continue evolving in
the political world. Of course, it doesn' t take away, they
don' t sit me down, they' re not or you' re
never going to feel political, politics bores me. It even bores me where
you' re domiciled. You were good in the city of Buenos Aires,
in the city of Buenos Aires, but not so in silver. So for
guessing, I think you' re missing data. I think you' d
be a very good candidate for the Vos province, but I' m an
opportunist. I don' t think so anymore, I don' t think
I' d be a good candidate. Yeah, just wait the same for
me. To me today, all I know is the status of the executive
function and that' s what I like. You like that. The rest
I don' t know if I like. Hey, Meditaneu, you got
a place here anytime you want. I' m already looking for work,
but in eight years, eight years I sleep well I have, of course,
I' m convinced this lasted eight years. You' re convinced I
' ve been here eight years. I' m convinced that if they let
us do what we want to do, we' re eight years old.
It depends on me leaving you all of a sudden. We are doing everything
we always think, as you have started well, now you tell me if
they leave us no, if they leave us no, if they let us
be bolero or not. If they put sticks on the wheel. It is
very difficult, of course, that it is very difficult to move forward with
everything we want to do. But clearly, clearly, we think of a
government eight years, because we' re doing things right and, besides,
because, behind all this there' s a lot of labor that, of
course, maybe doesn' t look like, say, or it' s
more imperceptible. We' re teaugurating a lot, a lot, a lot
to make it all right. And you were telling me, in the cabinet
I see you running the cabinet. The truth is, it' s a
barbaric team. You get out of cabinet meetings and you' re convinced we
' re going because I walk right. And that' s true I never
imagined it would happen to me. I figured the intern or the part you
don' t see, which could be, for example, the cabinet meeting,
which was going to be something more even conflictive. And the truth is
that you came out convinced that you' re saving Argentina and that' s
fundamental to doing what we' re doing. Thank you, Manuel, thank
you. It' s a pleasure to have you mante, because it'
s the first time I' ve been invited, because I didn' t
get invited before. We never saw each other. We have a win-
win where Andrs once invited me to cheer up my luck and they took me
seriously. Yeah, but I didn' t get you down from a producer
He always grabs a few better Anda didn' t get Milay to the presidency.
Listen to my lanari where Andas and the nario sont speak it today the
narie dejale no but luiste n another no and aside, also makes a barbarian
job that also does not see, but it is a sensational auro. They
sent a big hug, Javier che Thank you. Manuel, I was looking
forward to following you. I mean, hey, hey, hey, hey,
hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey,
hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey,
hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey,
hey. So balls, it' s good to talk. You saw that
we didn' t enter the topics days. You saw between the gas and
all that not that. Leave it to me by morning. The morning I
am entertained with Fabi and his team. Look at the controversy. People are
starving and something is going to be controversial. Declarations of my law in the
United States. Senate Senate there was no ruling nor to ask a cusa question
you thunder to enter quickly. Give him that log. I think I'
ll ask you a question. Despairing your bath people from a log is a
ficial character didn' t get incoming that you want on a concrete key question.
It will be political, it will be economic, it will be international
relations, it will be relations with the countries of the First World. What
a question you want to ask You' ve already armed the sixty- four.
I always had it with dataset. When you make yourself with ten hundred
forty- one, forty- one, fifteen seventy- one, I have
two sixty- four, sixty- four, six hundred twenty- eight,
sixty- four, the one that was assembled. Here' s the war,
la la la, but say it was short- lived. Well,
mine is all over me that there are Peronist products, there are products that
you relate to, but very much taken. The side was a snoring as
good. Okay. In fact, why isn' t it any on the
street? Sure,' cause look, I' m gonna tell you something.
The American that armor, the trias on the floor and it would work.
And the American didn' t plug her in. If it worked,
learn a second and a half faster than the Peronist than you wander if we
delay, it is true, it is vague and would be expensive in its
time. But if I' m so armed with the cholecovisions, yeah,
yeah, aside, I' m a collector, so that' s what
it is, too. That' s why we' re going to make
a Bacaca museum in Neura, with vintage stuff. I kisté all the comoras.
Look at five hundred, you don' t want to be the godfather
of the museum. I' d love to be smart aside, it'
s not inconsistent with the law of public tica. So not for that and
we' re gonna do something we' re missing. Six machines. Nothing
more. We' re not gonna be back. Nothing, no, no,
no, no, we don' t. What are you going to
try, what are you going to do a wing or make a lan like
in the' 90s, perfect one day. Let' s get out what
an alan is I' m a buyer. It' ll know a lick
and we' ll do yes, of course, less good computations, clear
valve monitor this sold costerns. We play an ange comes out alone and du
doub never in three of bu what is yes, my way cached in a
wak forgive me much the one out there a lot of squeals in the lumun
colum right now and men of Peronism seeing them says I garcho them live.
You two. If this is not for males with other males the urban one
say we lost really is very vir this pare no. This one doesn'
t have you at all. Tende pro por fas six years trying to pass
the level one of the destiny and the pey four please, much the male
are sharpening your sabers, the males listening to him. The urban man is
at a disadvantage with us because we play le of empire, because that has
no fucking idea. That' s exactly what it gives you that you have
Give me a feature. They' re no more this than what drives you
Give me a man with an urban who barefoot you' re ca. He
said how much territory and I don' t know. You' ll have
eight hundred thousand people. Yeah, I' ve got 11, 000 kilometers
here wrong with me, but the lu is virtual dumb guy coming you put
20, 000 in front of me in the master' s room. It
' s very difficult, uh, and but you can' t pull out
archers is dating to throw barefoot at him. No, but I' m
stuck in it, but I' m stuck in it. They do it,
they do it, but I put him on the server and he likes
everything. But pods here, two municipalities. Maybe we' ll be sorry.
Thank you, Manu, Nos, Thanks Brother, Thank you for all
of us, sorry we passed. Five minutes. Come on.