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Shut up here, everybody. Welcome
to another episode of Let's Ask Paul,

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where we talk about all things National
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And starting on June twenty eighth,
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Live. If you haven't heard it
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have some guests on from time to
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are coming into a getting ready to
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believe it or not, and you
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haven't even adopted the twenty twenty three, so it would be a lot of

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We're not on Instagram or TikTok when
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It's just a unique platform or fast
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way you want to watch it,
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one way to be able to watch
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exam prep stuff we usually close off
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submit their questions specifically usually within twenty
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show and get your questions answered.
We'll even go into the program and look

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up your and give you the answer
to what you're asking. Okay, that's

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the way you're going to get the
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you always have the spark you Hub. You can post things there as well.

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I digress. Let's get into the
night's show and I'm going to read

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it. It is. It seems
to be two parts to this question.

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And I haven't looked at this question. I just pulled it up because it's

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in the queue that's been set up
for me, So let me look at

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it. Here it says, Hi, Paul, this question has two parts.

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Okay, so it's a two part
question. Part A, what is

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your opinion of grounding a bus shelter? Okay, well, it's more to

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this question, but let me kind
of start with this. So to me,

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when it comes when you say grounding, we're definitely he's definitely wanting to

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know about your grounding electrode system.
Is this a structure that which is built?

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And the question is for me is
what are you bringing to that bus

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structure? Are you bringing a feeder
and you're going to put a panel there,

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or you're just bringing a branch circuit
there to do some lights. That's

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going to be key, and we'll
talk about that a little later. I'll

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see what else he's asking here,
but that's key to me. Yes,

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it is a structure, but it
is all about what am I bringing to

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that structure, and that's going to
be a real big key for me as

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we start to dissect this a little
more. Okay, he goes on to

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say, I have two scenarios,
one with lights and one without any power

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at all. Okay, looking at
two fifty dot four A four for a

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shelter with power and two fifty four
B four for one without power. Okay,

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I'm gonna stop right there first.
And when I'm looking at two fifty

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dot four B, he's talking about
A four A four. The one thing

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he's got to remember what he's talking
about here is when you're in two fifty

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four, this is just general requirements
for bonding and grounding. So this happens

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to be the performance rules. Everything
else in two fifties is prescriptive telling you

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what you do, and this is
performance. So two fifty dot four A

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and B are directing you to if
you do all of the things in the

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prescriptive rules within the code, you're
going to meet the performance requirements of this

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section, which is dit for.
So it's not really germane to this question

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because he's talking about a bus shelter
and the question is the grounding of the

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bus shelter. So I'm gonna tell
you I don't think that two fifty dot

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FO A or B come into play
in your question at this stage of the

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game. Now, when we bring
of a circuit to that bus shelter,

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then bonding things together and making sure
we have a effective ground current path,

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bonding any electric conductive material, things
like that, that's going to have a

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lot to do with obviously the equipment
ground and what's brought to the bus structure

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the bus shelter. So at this
stage to say that two fifty four A

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four or two four B four and
B is for ungrounded systems, So it

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doesn't really it's not playing a role
here, doesn't really come into play in

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your question. Okay, so let's
get that out of the way first.

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Okay. Now it goes on to
say both shelters will be on a concrete

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slab eighteen feet by eight feet.
Would this be considered a structure or yes,

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it is a structure. Obviously that
basically that which is built or constructed,

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So Article one hundred, that is
a structure. But it's also important

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to understand what we're bringing to the
structure. Okay, let's keep it kind

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of simple here. First. If
it's a structure and there's no power running

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to it, then you don't do
anything. It's just it would be no

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difference than a shit st got in
your backyard that doesn't have any power at

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it. You don't do nothing to
it. You just just leave it alone.

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It only becomes more complicated when you
bring power to it. Right,

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So to answer this first question,
two fifty four A four and B four

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have really they are going to be
the performance rules, and you're really going

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to be in two fifty dot four
A because this is obviously a grounded system.

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If you bring that circuit to this
bus shelter, then you have to

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meet those performance rules because of what
you do prescriptively throughout the ANC. So

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that means we've got to shift to
prescriptive requirements now in order to be able

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to answer this part of the question. Okay, all right, now,

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so now where you end up being
here is going to be at two fifty

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dot thirty two. Okay, so
this is this is where you're going to

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be. And I want to draw
your attention because you ask about grounding.

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I want to draw your attention to
a which is grounding electrodes. All right,

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so let's look at that first.
So here's what it says. If

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you've got your codebook two fifty dot
thirty two. A is the general rule.

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It says, a building or structure
which we established this bus shelter is

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supplied by a feeder or branch circuit, shall have a grounding electrode system and

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grounding electrode conductor installed in accordance with
Part three of article two fifty And of

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course part three is going to talk
about the different types of electrodes that you

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have, ground rods, ground rings, play you for you get my sam.

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00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,080
Okay. It says where there's no
existing grounding electrode, the grounding electrodes

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required in two fifty dot fifty shall
be installed. So there's not one there,

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then it's inherent for you to add
one in this case. So that's

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the general rules. So you have
a building or structure in power comes to

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it, then you're going to have
to establish your grounding electrode system. But

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there is an exception, and this
is what's going to come into play based

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on what you stated. Just some
lights is the exception, and that's what

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00:12:01,639 --> 00:12:05,559
I'm want to read you. It
says a grounding electrode shall not be required.

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00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,879
We're only a single brand circuit,
including a multi wire brand circuit if

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that's what you want to run,
which could be two single brand circuits in

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it. Hence, multi wire still
going to be considered a single brand circuit,

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even if it's a multi wire brand
circuit, which means you could run

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a I'm just using for illustration purposes. You ran a black or red,

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a white that's shared. That's what
multi multi wire brand circuit is, sharing

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the white and an equipment ground.
Okay, so you basically have Red as

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one brand circuit, Black as another
brand circuit. So there's technically two circuits

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00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,519
out there which people could end up
hitting the lights with one and maybe a

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convenient receptacle with the other. Still
obviously have to have disconnects there, which

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00:12:48,799 --> 00:12:52,440
snaps which would work as a disconnect
there at that location. But I digress.

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00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:58,440
The point is under this exception,
I could take a single brand circuit

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and again that would include a multi
wire our brand circuit supplying the building and

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00:13:01,159 --> 00:13:07,360
structure, and the brand circuit includes
an equipment ground and conductor for grounding the

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00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,519
normally nine current carrying metal parts of
the equipment, and so that would be

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00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:18,159
of the building itself. Okay,
So anything that would be obviously that you

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00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,960
could bond to if you came in
it's a metal structure. It's a metal

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box with the switches as a disconnects
in it and it connects to it and

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00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:31,039
that makes intimate contact with the frame. Then then it's all bonded together and

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00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,080
it's all done by the equipment ground
and conductor. And if that's the case,

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00:13:37,159 --> 00:13:41,000
then you would not need to have
a grounding electrode system out there.

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Okay, does that make sense?
So it sounds to me like that's what's

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taking place. You're just taking a
branch circuit out there to supply some lights

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00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:58,919
at that bus shelter. Then that's
it right, So again hopefully that again

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solve that and your equipment ground is
going to if anything gets energized, it's

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going to allow the equipment ground to
do its job and the over current device

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wherever they may be, is going
to shut off the power and everybody's good.

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You don't have to worry about any
concerns. Okay, that's how it

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should roll, right. Okay,
So that's that one. So let's look

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00:14:16,919 --> 00:14:20,440
at the next. So then there's
a part B. The part B says

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00:14:20,759 --> 00:14:24,120
you have sold me. I want
to pay. I want to be a

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00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:28,080
paying customer. Okay. I don't
guess this relates to the first one.

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00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,080
I guess we solved the first one. It says you have sold me.

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00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,039
I want to be a paying customer. What would be the best route?

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00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,360
My bios started in the trade in
nineteen seventies, apprentice journeyman, Master electrical

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00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:45,279
contractor for twenty eight years, presently
an inspector plans examiner. What would be

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00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:50,360
the best route for me keeping up
with current code and trying to remember the

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00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,240
old code? Thanks? And there
you go. Okay in his name?

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00:14:54,679 --> 00:15:01,120
All right, So great question.
You obviously don't need exam prep. But

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00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,559
what I would recommend at this stage, since you were a master electrician,

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00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,000
I would recommend that you get into
our CMCP program. So the Certified Master

202
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:15,200
Electrical co Professional program is going to
cover all the basic code rules and in

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00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,480
fact, for those out there that
are listening, the CMECP, which is

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thriving right now doing wonderful things for
the industry, is getting ready to shift

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to the twenty twenty three edition here
in about two to three weeks, and

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of course that's based on when you
hear this episode, which is June twenty

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fourth, But when that shifts to
the twenty twenty three, that's what we're

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going to be focusing on the twenty
twenty three. Now, as far as

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we remembering old codes, the exams
that we do will give you references to

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the you know, the twenty twenty
three obviously, but also the twenty twenty

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in the test portion of your program. But the CMECP program is going to

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teach you new as codes, the
new ones as far as the old codes

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again, you know, unless you
get into multiple systems that are programs that

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are dedicated to the old codes,
your best to just keep moving forward.

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I personally don't always remember try to
remember old codes. That's what we have

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a codebook for what we try to
do and all of my programs is teach

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you the code section it's relevant the
one that you're working on now, and

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we'll also give you a bit of
code reference for some of the older codes

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where Germaine. But it's basically trying
to keep you pressing forward, keep you,

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keep you moving in the latest edition
that gets printed at NFPA, and

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we're on the twenty twenty three right
now, So I wanted to be ahead

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of the curve. That's what cemecps
are all about, and so I recommend

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the CMECP program. It's still going
to be the same intense like our fast

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Tracks It's still it's it's going to
be your very time limited. You only

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get six months to complete the online
portion, and I think you ask any

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of our candidates, it's quite challenging. Most of them take all of the

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six months to get done. But
you will come away with it with a

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more enhanced understanding of the National Electrical
Code, and that's what it's all about.

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So for you, I recommend the
CMECP program, not just so much

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whether or not you want to be
a CEMECP, but because it's the best

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value for what you're going for and
it's really going to test your knowledge.

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Now, if you feel your knowledge
is not up to the challenge for that,

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that's fine, then I still would
recommend our fast tracks program the black

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because it is whether you're taking an
exam or not. It is the most

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well rounded anc learning platform out there, and so anything in that that keeps

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you engaged in code, kind of
tests you on calculations, keeps you involved

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00:17:52,279 --> 00:17:56,759
immersed in it. And of course, join our Wednesday night sessions. We're

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00:17:56,799 --> 00:17:59,279
now going to be live, so
you can sit in on them on any

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of our favorite play platforms, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Twitch, Rumble,

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all those platforms. You can watch
us now live on Wednesday nights.

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So you're just gonna get more enhanced
and you're gonna get more knowledge out of

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00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,799
it. Really are, So hopefully
I've answered that question for you. Give

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00:18:15,839 --> 00:18:19,480
you some insight. Folks again,
if you want to follow us and listen

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00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,640
to our podcast and share the love, let people know about it, give

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00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,960
us a thumbs up, share it. It really helps us get exposure.

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00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,880
Then all you gotta do is go
to your favorite platform, no matter what

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00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,559
it is, Apple podcasts, Google
podcasts, Deezer, LinkedIn, not LinkedIn,

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00:18:34,599 --> 00:18:38,680
excuse me, what is the other
one? Deezer our heart radio.

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00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,079
God, there's so many of them, pod being all these things, we're

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00:18:45,079 --> 00:18:51,119
on all of those. All you
gotta do is search for master the NEC

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00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,960
podcast and you'll be able to find
it all right, or get our mobile

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00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,759
app and you can listen anytime.
Until next time, folks, stay safe,

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God bless and remember go to Paul
Abernathy dot com submit your questions till

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00:19:03,599 --> 00:19:30,559
next time. Take care, Ask
ball, Ask ask Ball,