Shut up here, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Let's Ask Paul,
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them for you, all right. In today's episode, we have a question
that was submitted through the portal over at Paul Abernathy dot com, which you
all know that it's a free service that we provide. All you got to
do is go to Paul Abernathy dot com and it'll be a simple form there
and you click that submit button that it'll come right to me directly and your
question will be answered either via email or in a podcast like the one today.
And starting on June twenty eighth, we are actually starting up fast Tracks
Live. If you haven't heard it yet, it's a Wednesday night, seven
thirty pms Central Time. It's going to be a live stream and we answer
questions from the fast Tracks program. We do some exam prep, We maybe
have some guests on from time to time talk about certain pressing issues. We
are coming into a getting ready to start the twenty twenty six code cycle again,
believe it or not, and you know, but again most of you
haven't even adopted the twenty twenty three, so it would be a lot of
conversations about the twenty twenty three and some of the changes and things like it.
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you always have the spark you Hub. You can post things there as well.
I digress. Let's get into the night's show and I'm going to read
it. It is. It seems to be two parts to this question.
And I haven't looked at this question. I just pulled it up because it's
in the queue that's been set up for me, So let me look at
it. Here it says, Hi, Paul, this question has two parts.
Okay, so it's a two part question. Part A, what is
your opinion of grounding a bus shelter? Okay, well, it's more to
this question, but let me kind of start with this. So to me,
when it comes when you say grounding, we're definitely he's definitely wanting to
know about your grounding electrode system. Is this a structure that which is built?
And the question is for me is what are you bringing to that bus
structure? Are you bringing a feeder and you're going to put a panel there,
or you're just bringing a branch circuit there to do some lights. That's
going to be key, and we'll talk about that a little later. I'll
see what else he's asking here, but that's key to me. Yes,
it is a structure, but it is all about what am I bringing to
that structure, and that's going to be a real big key for me as
we start to dissect this a little more. Okay, he goes on to
say, I have two scenarios, one with lights and one without any power
at all. Okay, looking at two fifty dot four A four for a
shelter with power and two fifty four B four for one without power. Okay,
I'm gonna stop right there first. And when I'm looking at two fifty
dot four B, he's talking about A four A four. The one thing
he's got to remember what he's talking about here is when you're in two fifty
four, this is just general requirements for bonding and grounding. So this happens
to be the performance rules. Everything else in two fifties is prescriptive telling you
what you do, and this is performance. So two fifty dot four A
and B are directing you to if you do all of the things in the
prescriptive rules within the code, you're going to meet the performance requirements of this
section, which is dit for. So it's not really germane to this question
because he's talking about a bus shelter and the question is the grounding of the
bus shelter. So I'm gonna tell you I don't think that two fifty dot
FO A or B come into play in your question at this stage of the
game. Now, when we bring of a circuit to that bus shelter,
then bonding things together and making sure we have a effective ground current path,
bonding any electric conductive material, things like that, that's going to have a
lot to do with obviously the equipment ground and what's brought to the bus structure
the bus shelter. So at this stage to say that two fifty four A
four or two four B four and B is for ungrounded systems, So it
doesn't really it's not playing a role here, doesn't really come into play in
your question. Okay, so let's get that out of the way first.
Okay. Now it goes on to say both shelters will be on a concrete
slab eighteen feet by eight feet. Would this be considered a structure or yes,
it is a structure. Obviously that basically that which is built or constructed,
So Article one hundred, that is a structure. But it's also important
to understand what we're bringing to the structure. Okay, let's keep it kind
of simple here. First. If it's a structure and there's no power running
to it, then you don't do anything. It's just it would be no
difference than a shit st got in your backyard that doesn't have any power at
it. You don't do nothing to it. You just just leave it alone.
It only becomes more complicated when you bring power to it. Right,
So to answer this first question, two fifty four A four and B four
have really they are going to be the performance rules, and you're really going
to be in two fifty dot four A because this is obviously a grounded system.
If you bring that circuit to this bus shelter, then you have to
meet those performance rules because of what you do prescriptively throughout the ANC. So
that means we've got to shift to prescriptive requirements now in order to be able
to answer this part of the question. Okay, all right, now,
so now where you end up being here is going to be at two fifty
dot thirty two. Okay, so this is this is where you're going to
be. And I want to draw your attention because you ask about grounding.
I want to draw your attention to a which is grounding electrodes. All right,
so let's look at that first. So here's what it says. If
you've got your codebook two fifty dot thirty two. A is the general rule.
It says, a building or structure which we established this bus shelter is
supplied by a feeder or branch circuit, shall have a grounding electrode system and
grounding electrode conductor installed in accordance with Part three of article two fifty And of
course part three is going to talk about the different types of electrodes that you
have, ground rods, ground rings, play you for you get my sam.
Okay. It says where there's no existing grounding electrode, the grounding electrodes
required in two fifty dot fifty shall be installed. So there's not one there,
then it's inherent for you to add one in this case. So that's
the general rules. So you have a building or structure in power comes to
it, then you're going to have to establish your grounding electrode system. But
there is an exception, and this is what's going to come into play based
on what you stated. Just some lights is the exception, and that's what
I'm want to read you. It says a grounding electrode shall not be required.
We're only a single brand circuit, including a multi wire brand circuit if
that's what you want to run, which could be two single brand circuits in
it. Hence, multi wire still going to be considered a single brand circuit,
even if it's a multi wire brand circuit, which means you could run
a I'm just using for illustration purposes. You ran a black or red,
a white that's shared. That's what multi multi wire brand circuit is, sharing
the white and an equipment ground. Okay, so you basically have Red as
one brand circuit, Black as another brand circuit. So there's technically two circuits
out there which people could end up hitting the lights with one and maybe a
convenient receptacle with the other. Still obviously have to have disconnects there, which
snaps which would work as a disconnect there at that location. But I digress.
The point is under this exception, I could take a single brand circuit
and again that would include a multi wire our brand circuit supplying the building and
structure, and the brand circuit includes an equipment ground and conductor for grounding the
normally nine current carrying metal parts of the equipment, and so that would be
of the building itself. Okay, So anything that would be obviously that you
could bond to if you came in it's a metal structure. It's a metal
box with the switches as a disconnects in it and it connects to it and
that makes intimate contact with the frame. Then then it's all bonded together and
it's all done by the equipment ground and conductor. And if that's the case,
then you would not need to have a grounding electrode system out there.
Okay, does that make sense? So it sounds to me like that's what's
taking place. You're just taking a branch circuit out there to supply some lights
at that bus shelter. Then that's it right, So again hopefully that again
solve that and your equipment ground is going to if anything gets energized, it's
going to allow the equipment ground to do its job and the over current device
wherever they may be, is going to shut off the power and everybody's good.
You don't have to worry about any concerns. Okay, that's how it
should roll, right. Okay, So that's that one. So let's look
at the next. So then there's a part B. The part B says
you have sold me. I want to pay. I want to be a
paying customer. Okay. I don't guess this relates to the first one.
I guess we solved the first one. It says you have sold me.
I want to be a paying customer. What would be the best route?
My bios started in the trade in nineteen seventies, apprentice journeyman, Master electrical
contractor for twenty eight years, presently an inspector plans examiner. What would be
the best route for me keeping up with current code and trying to remember the
old code? Thanks? And there you go. Okay in his name?
All right, So great question. You obviously don't need exam prep. But
what I would recommend at this stage, since you were a master electrician,
I would recommend that you get into our CMCP program. So the Certified Master
Electrical co Professional program is going to cover all the basic code rules and in
fact, for those out there that are listening, the CMECP, which is
thriving right now doing wonderful things for the industry, is getting ready to shift
to the twenty twenty three edition here in about two to three weeks, and
of course that's based on when you hear this episode, which is June twenty
fourth, But when that shifts to the twenty twenty three, that's what we're
going to be focusing on the twenty twenty three. Now, as far as
we remembering old codes, the exams that we do will give you references to
the you know, the twenty twenty three obviously, but also the twenty twenty
in the test portion of your program. But the CMECP program is going to
teach you new as codes, the new ones as far as the old codes
again, you know, unless you get into multiple systems that are programs that
are dedicated to the old codes, your best to just keep moving forward.
I personally don't always remember try to remember old codes. That's what we have
a codebook for what we try to do and all of my programs is teach
you the code section it's relevant the one that you're working on now, and
we'll also give you a bit of code reference for some of the older codes
where Germaine. But it's basically trying to keep you pressing forward, keep you,
keep you moving in the latest edition that gets printed at NFPA, and
we're on the twenty twenty three right now, So I wanted to be ahead
of the curve. That's what cemecps are all about, and so I recommend
the CMECP program. It's still going to be the same intense like our fast
Tracks It's still it's it's going to be your very time limited. You only
get six months to complete the online portion, and I think you ask any
of our candidates, it's quite challenging. Most of them take all of the
six months to get done. But you will come away with it with a
more enhanced understanding of the National Electrical Code, and that's what it's all about.
So for you, I recommend the CMECP program, not just so much
whether or not you want to be a CEMECP, but because it's the best
value for what you're going for and it's really going to test your knowledge.
Now, if you feel your knowledge is not up to the challenge for that,
that's fine, then I still would recommend our fast tracks program the black
because it is whether you're taking an exam or not. It is the most
well rounded anc learning platform out there, and so anything in that that keeps
you engaged in code, kind of tests you on calculations, keeps you involved
immersed in it. And of course, join our Wednesday night sessions. We're
now going to be live, so you can sit in on them on any
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So you're just gonna get more enhanced and you're gonna get more knowledge out of
it. Really are, So hopefully I've answered that question for you. Give
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God bless and remember go to Paul Abernathy dot com submit your questions till
next time. Take care, Ask ball, Ask ask Ball,