WEBVTT

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Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
UFO Radio. I am your host,

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Alejandro Rojas, and I am here
with the Jason Spaceman McClellan. How are

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you, buddy? This is the
spaceman read you loud and clear from up

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here in space. Excellent. You're
not really in space though, you're actually

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in embois right. That's right.
I am in Boisy. But be cool

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to be in space, I know, man, one day, one day,

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we'll get there. Both you and
I are really into space. We're

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really into space, commercial space,
space tourism, all of this stuff.

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And you know what, that's one
of my main motivations getting into this stuff.

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Actually, it's it's that idea that
there could possibly be aliens out there.

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I'm of the mind that they would
be mostly good guys, and so

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it's kind of like, you know, this hope that maybe one of them

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will give me a ride in their
spacecraft. You silly dreamer. I know

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that would be so nice though,
So that's what I'm doing on Yeah,

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you have, you're so full of
it? What are you talking about.

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I've told you before I'm a commander
of board spaceships. Apparently that's what I've

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been. You got to listen to
what you're told. I've been told that

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too. In fact, I've been
told I will be in charge of a

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whole space fleet, but or am
but it's not true. It's just not

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the case. Yeah, maybe a
fleet enema. As much as I wish

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it were, it isn't. Unfortunately, Yeah, so bad for you.

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So our guest tonight, this is
really interesting because it is Kathleen Martin,

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and of course she is an abduction
researcher. She's written several books, mostly

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co authored with Stanton Friedman. She
is the niece of Betty Hill, of

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you know, Betty and Barney Hill
were the first two real big public American

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abduction case, you know that people
found out about. So and now what

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we're talking to her about is that
she says that, you know, during

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her life, she's also had experiences
and that now she's willing to kind of

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share that with people. And so
for the first time, at least for

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us, we're talking to her about
that. She's amazing and we talked to

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her a lot, we know her
very well, and I think it's really

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cool that she's not starting to talk
about this. She's talked about it a

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little before, but you know more
so now, and I don't think a

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lot of people realize that. So
this is gonna be a great interview.

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Yeah. Oh, it's only been
very recent that she said anything. She

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kind of had her coming out just
a few months ago, or she sent

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the email and stuff to people,
and I fell back because I didn't respond

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at all, and I was thinking, hopefully she doesn't think that I'm not

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going to talk to her anymore.
But luckily we get to see her quite

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often, and we started the Travis
Walton thing that he had going and so

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yeah, so so she's a great
lady and we'll be talking to her about

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that. However, before that,
you and I have a lot to talk

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about because it's been a couple of
weeks. We've been extremely busy, of

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course with the UFO Congress that's coming
up, and in fact, this might

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be our last show for February.
I mean, hopefully after the conference we'll

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be able to arrange one and get
win going. But of course the next

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week or so it is going to
be so so busy for us. We

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have the conference which starts in a
little more than a week here, and

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then we have our recovery, which
always takes some time because we're working,

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you know, twelve plus hours a
day, more like easily twelve plus hours

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a day at the conference, and
so getting everything back here and getting reset

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up is always takes a long time. So as you know, Jason,

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because you've been through this quite a
bit as well. Yeah, I mean,

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it's like you said, both the
physical recovery time as well as the

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putting things back together time that delays
getting back to normal. So we'll do

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it as fast as we can.
Yeah, But because you know, we've

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been so busy, I was going
to arrange something and let's talk about this

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story first. I was trying to
get to talk to John Greenwall, but

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he's been sick, and no doubt
partially because of these events that have gone

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on. So you and I talked
about how he was able to post the

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Project blue Book files. And people
have accused us of being inaccurate, but

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actually I think we've been accurate since
the beginning, in fact, more so

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than any other place, and we've
been very we've explained this whole thing.

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But just to quickly review, essentially, what happened is there was a gentleman

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who's a computer specialist or something like
that, and he was able to create

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a program that was able to get
the images digital images of the blue Book

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files from a website called fold three. Of course, these are government documents,

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and he then gave them to a
bunch of people, including you know,

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Mofon wanted to post them and so
did others that we would have loved

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to have. It took me two
days to download them when this guy gave

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me access, but there are so
many files that it would have taken us

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forever to put them up, and
we administer the move on website right now,

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so they would I told them,
you know, unfortunately we can't do

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it. You can maybe get someone
else to do it for you. But

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John Greenwald was also talking with this
guy and working with this guy, and

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they were able to come up with
not only a program that could turn these

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files into PDFs so they'd be searchable, but then also post them so they're

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easily accept accessible in PDF format so
they're searchable. So huge advantages. We've

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been writing about you know, blue
book files for for a long time.

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In fact, our magazine the last
few issues had you know, blue book

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files that we would specifically write about, and so I was going to this

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fold three site to get it.
I had to pay when I first got

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there in order to download them,
and they made them free, but you

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still had to register there, whereas
with John Greenwald's site, you don't have

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to register. You don't have to
download one page at a time, which

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is a long process and difficult because
it takes forever to even download one page

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on their site. You know.
I think they probably, you know,

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for bandwidth reasons, have that go
a little slower, but or maybe they're

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bandwidth. It's just slow, so
it would take a long time, whereas

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you can go to greenwald site very
quickly, find the file, download the

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PDF, and you would have the
full case file right there, which can

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be fifty pages or something like that. So it was a big deal,

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I felt, you know. So
I wrote a story about it to promote

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it, and it was in haste
because I was busy with other stuff that

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I put up this story very quickly, and I didn't get into all of

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this minutia. But now fold three
has said, hey, we have digital

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copyright over those files. John Greenwald
argued that, well, it's not just

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your files that I post. I
also posted my own files that I've gotten

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from blue Book, but they didn't
want to hear anything of it, and

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so very frustrating. And there are
people who are accused John Greenwald of stealing

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these files from fold three. Which
frustrating about that is these people who are

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claiming that know very well where these
files came from and that John did not

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download them, another person did,
so that's blatantly lying. These people are

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just completely lying. And it's so
sad that, you know, there are

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these people out there, and we
know it better than anybody because we're the

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brunt of all of the of this
stuff. Often, you know, whenever

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you do anything especially significant, you
have these these haters who come out and

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hate, hate, hate, and
just like you know, are so intense

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in their attacks, and and it's
really sad and it's very frustrating because John

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Greenwold, you know, knows better
than anybody that when you put up digital

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files, especially once you've gotten through
foya, they belong to the world.

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At that point, he's got over
a million files he's gotten through Foya's at

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the black Bowl dot com, so
he's very aware of how all of that

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works. So a lot of people
are very frustrated that Fold three made him

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take them down. Someone with you
know lawyers have been consulted and say that

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they don't have legal grounds, but
you know, no one at this point

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has mounted and you know, been
willing to pay lawyers to fight this out.

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However, I do know there are
people with resources that are very frustrated

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about this, who are behind the
scenes working on it. And the story

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isn't over and before long I think
John's PDFs are going to be back online.

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Yeah, I think that's most likely
going to happen because of the baseless

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claims. I think it's you know, really the a lot of big companies

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do this, a lot of small
companies do it too, just kind of

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scare tactics. They would like to
have exclusivity. But you know, in

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this case with full three, I
think they're more concerned about you know,

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they're hard work they're digitizing being taken
and I kind of get that, but

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it's still at the same time,
let's look at what we're talking about here,

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and that's public domain files. And
look, I mean, I think

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it's the wrong approach. Look at
look at us on the open Mind's website

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and the files that we have painstakingly
scanned and put up the apro files,

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and how many people have downloaded those
and put them on their website. Are

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we going to see those people?
Absolutely not. They're not our files.

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Yes, we did take the time
and effort to put those things up,

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but you know, they're not our
files exactly, you know. And it

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took me months to get these these
files on dody and then these Air Force

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files that I did the foyer on. I knew as soon as I posted

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those PDFs they belonged to the world, and which is fine. It took

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me hours, it took me a
lot of work, but they're up there.

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And the other question is is how
did fold three get those files?

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Because a lot of people are suspicious
and some people say and I don't know

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how they know this, but hopefully
they've done the research to confirm it.

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But I know the work's being done, and we'll find out that it was

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the National Archives that digitize those and
gave those to fold three. If that's

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true, then they are public domain
because National Archives is a government agency.

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Anything they do belongs to the public
and taxpayers paid for it. So that

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may be the the you know,
akil Achilles heel in this whole thing,

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although I think there's more than one, but it'll be interesting to see how

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this all unfolds. You said,
fold unfolding, fold three. There's a

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good, good headline, good headline, Yeah, exactly, that's a Billy

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Cox kind of headline, Alex use
clever headlines. Going on, what story

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do you want to talk about?
Well, as you already mentioned, and

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as you've mentioned so many times before, you and I are big space people.

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We love space, we love space
exploration, and I think, as

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we pointed out at our end of
the year review and making predictions, I

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predicted that you know, we're going
to find extraterrestrial life officially in the coming

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couple of years, and movements by
mainstream science is looking more and more likely

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to have that happen. And here's
what I'm talking about, Alejandro. So

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in twenty fourteen, we mentioned that
a research team evaluated a list of confirmed

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exoplanets, leading to the conclusion that
the Milky Way is home to one hundred

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million planets that could support not just
extratrustrial life, not just like microbes,

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but complex alien life. That's huge. And now a team of scientists has

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and teams keep doing this. There's
such a wealth of data now, so

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you have so many research teams doing
different research projects with this data. So

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another research team recently took data collected
by the Kepler Space telescope, looking at

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the planets that Kepler has identified and
looking at the method that Kepler uses to

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detect planets. It's bias towards planets
that are very close to their stars because

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it's seized by the transit method by
when these things move in front of their

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stars. So there are a lot
of planets being left out. So in

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using their method and their estimations,
they concluded that there are hundreds of billions

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of Earth like planets in this galaxy
that may host Dailien life. That is

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incredible, Alejandro, And we're finding
out more and more. It seems like

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every day basically that extraterustrial life.
It's everywhere. Life is everywhere. So

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I think, and you know,
things are gearing up here with Europa Mission

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National is going to go to Europa. I think they're going to find life

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there right here in our own solar
system. It's happening, brother, it's

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happening. So let me ask you
this. Because of all of these planets

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being found, we hear more and
more about the Fermi paradox, which is

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this idea that if there are so
many of them out there, why haven't

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we seen them yet? What do
you think of that? You know,

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I think we know we've said it
before. We know so little about our

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own planet, and we know so
little about the life here, and we're

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always discovering new life here here we
didn't know existed, and it's been here

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all along. I think there's plenty
of life out there. I just don't

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think we're either looking the right way
or we don't know exactly what we're looking

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for. And it could be if
there are more advanced civilizations. I mean,

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if they're advanced enough, and there
are astrophysicists who believe this who agree

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with this mainstream. If there are
advanced civilizations to have the technology to get

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here, then they probably have the
ability to do so unnoticed or badly.

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Is quite likely. And I mean, look again, these amazing tools that

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we have, these space telescopes.
They're looking extremely far away and using complex

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methods to even detect the planets are
there. But look right here in our

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own Solar system and look at you
know how long it's been since we've been

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to the Moon, and the limited
research that's been done on our own celestial

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bodies here in our own solar system, we know very we know a lot,

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but we still know very little,
you know, mad missions I think

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are going to provide a lot of
additional information. We've got rovers on Mars

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to discovering lots of new things every
day. So I mean, I think

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that although we have incredible instruments that
are finding billions and billions of Earth like

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planets very far away, that's incredible, and even some of those planets we

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can get pretty good guesses about what
the atmospheres they are alike, and what

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the planets are the compositions of the
planets, but still they're guesses. And

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with as much as we know about
the planets in our own solar system,

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which is a lot, I think
it's still very little. So there could

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very well be civilizations in my opinion, here on our own solar system,

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and we just you know, the
research that we've been able to do again,

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lots and lots of data, lots
and lots of research. We know

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so much, but we still know
very little. Yeah, good points.

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And you know another, I think
I think this is really interesting, So

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it'll be great to hear your opinion
on this. And of course we talked

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about it on Spacing Out. But
this little metal orb that these guys at

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the University of Sheffield and Buckingham their
Institute of Astrobiology there, which we've talked

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about a lot, because these guys
feel that they've got lots of examples of

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extraterrestrial life, microbial life in meteorites
from Mars, from you know, things

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they've collected from the stratosphere they believe
are from space. We've talked to you

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know, Richard Hoover works with them, who is at the Congress. So

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but yeah, they've now found on
this balloon that they sent to the stratosphere

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a little metallic sphere that they say
is made out of titanium and vanadium,

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and they say it has filamentous you
know, life on the outside of it,

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but it also has a biological goo
that it's oozing out of it.

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And they have you know, this
thing is only the size of a hair.

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When they found it in a balloon, it made a little crater.

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So they believe that this thing came
from space and that this is some biological

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space gou and they go as far
as you know, the team lead doctor

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Wainwright, Professor Wainwright, who we've
talked about before. He's made news about

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this kind of stuff before, and
these guys are out of the UK.

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They says that they think that this
possibly even could be a probe sent by

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an extraterrestrial civilization to either see life
or they even suggest even more scary that

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perhaps even seeding a virus. But
regardless, I mean, it's just more

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and more of this. At the
very least, it is possibly more evidence

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of life from elsewhere. The research
these guys do wayne right, and with

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Graham Singer and some of the others, they're in a team. It's incredible.

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It keeps, the evidence keeps mounting
and hopefully, you know, they'll

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start be being taken more seriously by
colleagues. But you know, it does

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get a little difficult, and you
can see why when he's making claims like

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that. You know, and perhaps
the evidence does merit that claim and suggests

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that, But at the same time, when you're already dealing with something that's

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met with ridicule and you're not being
accepted by your peers, it might be

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more beneficial to your research to keep
that to yourself. Well, I think

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that's been probably their problem. This
entire time. Is that this group in

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particular likes to, I guess,
jump to conclusions. Of course, they're

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just speculating, and I think that
that's fair. But a lot of people

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feel, I think that they are
going too far with the speculation when they

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need to focus on their work and
what it might mean. So when so

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a lot of people have a mainstream
scientists have argued, hey, you know,

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just because you're finding these things doesn't
mean they're You still haven't proven definitively

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that they're from space, and that's
what you need to do first. Although

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they do have, I mean,
some pretty strong evidence that And and what's

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interesting is that this balloon they sent
to the stratosphere, NASA is going to

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repeat this experiment, so I mean, and do it themselves and see if

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they get some life, which will
be interesting if they do, but because

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then what will they say. Of
course, NASA is really slow at coming

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out within the information and analyzing,
so whenever they send up this balloon,

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we probably won't hear results for years
after. But it shows that these guys

254
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and what the doing is taken seriously
and is real science, and and they

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you know, and they are respected
professors and everything so even though people like

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to kind of make light of it
a bit in the mainstream, Uh,

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it still is serious work. Uh. And of course, uh doctor Hoover

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who's worked with them, is worked
for NASA and was in charge of their

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astrobiology center for a while. So, uh, these are important people.

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And I think, you know,
more and more of these scientists are being

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convinced that, you know, perhaps
some of this stuff is evident of extraterrestrial

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life. And you know, with
NASA's recreation of this, I hope they

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take the factor of faked approach and
do it. And no matter what the

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conclusion is that they reach, they
don't you know, poo poo it or

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or you know, debunk or or
you know, try to say, see,

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we showed that this means you're wrong. I hope they do whatever they're

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going to do, and then you
know, if it does, if they

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do have some explanation for and say, oh, it's you know, earth

269
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contamination, they can say that's the
case in our study. But we're not

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saying that that's what happened in their
case. We're just saying this is a

271
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possibility. Yeah. Well, what's
funny is would we count on it?

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But yeah, it would be nice
if they do that. Well Waynwright even

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suggested that if they find something,
perhaps they won't give us credit. But

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I not that he. I think
it's more important that it confirmed there his

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life. But that's kind of secondary. Who gets credit, I think,

276
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but he does, you know,
did kind of mention some quote similar to

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that, which is funny, which
is probably too If NASA does find something,

278
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I'll probably say, look what we
discovered without referencing you know, this

279
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prior discovery, right, And to
the credit of these these scientists, they

280
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are careful to stay state that.
You know, when they put out these

281
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ideas, they're just ideas. They're
possible. Yeah, they're not saying that

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we can prove this. They're saying
their ideas. But you know, now

283
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again, when you're dealing with controversial
subjects like you know, the theory of

284
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pants burmia and more controversial directed pants
bermia, you know, when you when

285
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you have an incredible discovery like this, you know, like I said,

286
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I think it's it's better and more
beneficial to your research and having your research

287
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taken seriously, you just focus on
the extraterrestrial aspect and you know, leave

288
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the speculation for another time. Yeah, yep, so really exciting stuff though.

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So both of these stories is just
pointing towards possibly the possibility of your

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prediction that twenty fifteen will be the
year of the discovery of alien life,

291
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I mean, the official announcement.
So it could be we're getting closer and

292
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closer and it's only the first week
of February. That's right. Exciting things

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happening. Yeah, pretty cool,
Pretty cool, dude. So uh ross,

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Well, there's a couple stories regarding
Roswell that we need to talk about.

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I think, first of all,
one that's an obvious hoax. Second

296
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of all, one that hopefully is
not a hoax. Do you want to

297
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talk about the one that we know
as a hoax or at least seemingly sure

298
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I can talk about that. So
yeah, earlier in the week there was

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a was it this week or last
week? Remember it all blurts together?

300
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Yeah, all right, so I
think it was Okay, So technically it

301
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was at the end of January this
started happening. But there's a magazine,

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it's a New Zealand Australian magazine called
Uncensored, and they came out with the

303
00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:48.359
claim that said that the editors of
this magazine discovered this strange footage that shows

304
00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:57.599
its original footage from Area fifty one
showing an alien from the Roswell crash is

305
00:24:57.640 --> 00:25:03.279
taken to Area fifty one as military
military footage. You know, they're saying

306
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:08.000
that they're technical people that are frame
by frame analysis and they wanted to do

307
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:14.240
this before going to press with this
great news to determine, you know,

308
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whether it was fake or not.
And they claim they're technical people determined it

309
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was legitimate in every respect. And
so, I mean, people are probably

310
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pretty familiar with this footage, people
in the UFO field anyway, because we've

311
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seen this all before. This stuff
has been floating around the internet for years

312
00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:40.880
and years and years, coming from
various sources. And you know, it

313
00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:45.000
actually appears in the two thousand and
six comedy movie Alien Autopsy. They had

314
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:51.359
some black and white footage sequence in
that film as well. And this footage

315
00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:53.640
is nothing to do, like I
said, and it's it's started controversy for

316
00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:59.960
years. People although it's in this
fictional movie, people think that it's actually

317
00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:07.240
some of the original footage from Race
Antilli's Alien Autopsy. He claims was he

318
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:11.279
acquired from a military source and that
film was damaged beyond repair, so he

319
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:18.240
recreated it and the popular television broadcast
it was Alien Autopsy. But he hinted

320
00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:23.799
that some of that original material remained
the original footage, and that's what this

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thing was, and it was slipped
into the fictional movie Alien Autopsy. But

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you know, that's kind of hard
to believe, being that the person who

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worked with Antillian created the alien for
his movie also says he created the alien

324
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and this black and white sequence in
the two thousand and six comedy. So

325
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pretty bogus. But still there's some
who think that's all cover story and that

326
00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:53.240
this stuff is actually real. But
right, including one of our colleagues,

327
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:57.799
because a lot of people don't know
that, you know, this footage was

328
00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:06.880
out. This was Race Antilly and
when it was created, as you know,

329
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of course, you know they're they're
kind of not sharing all of that.

330
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And it was funny because one person
had said, oh, it's obviously

331
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a rubber I could see it bounce, so that means it wasn't part of

332
00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:26.160
the original Well it was from what
uh we understand because with this footage has

333
00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:32.079
been around even before the ant and
Dick as it's called Alien Autopsy movie.

334
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:41.400
Our colleague Marizio Baiata had been following
this story for a long time, and

335
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:45.559
he even remember they tried to sell
us that footage, right, because they

336
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:49.680
believe it's real. And I think
it was from Madicia years ago that I

337
00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:53.519
had first seen it, or from
his colleague Paula Harris, and I think

338
00:27:53.559 --> 00:28:00.599
they both still believe that this piece
is real, and so it is more

339
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:07.440
well produced than I think the rest
of the video. But and it's interesting,

340
00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:11.279
I think that if the actors are
really good in it, they seem,

341
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:14.799
you know, they're all running around
and look really shocked. But of

342
00:28:14.839 --> 00:28:19.599
course the video is different in that
it's you know, really distorted with these

343
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:23.680
you know, like film effects of
the film breaking and stuff like this.

344
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:29.559
So it's as if, you know, there's only a few secondary covered from

345
00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:33.440
this old film. So yeah,
so that's why a lot of people,

346
00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:37.720
there are some people out there believe
this bit to be this small part to

347
00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:42.640
be real, but some people believe
the whole alien autopsy video is still real.

348
00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:48.079
So even though, like you said, the person who created has come

349
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:51.720
out and admitted that, you know, well, it's a recreation of a

350
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:56.680
real film. He says, right, and Philip Mantle. You know,

351
00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:00.480
he's somebody who did a lot of
research and yeah, alien autopsy film,

352
00:29:00.519 --> 00:29:03.839
and he certainly believes this is a
load of crap. So yeah, he's

353
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:07.960
done a lot of great research.
We've printed we've printed some of his research

354
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:15.319
into this on our website and in
our magazine. So the second Roswell UFO

355
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:18.799
alien story is one that came out
just a couple months ago in November.

356
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:26.359
Well actually it was there were inklings
of this and rumors in certain UFO websites

357
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:32.000
for a while, but it really
only kind of went mainstream once Tom Carey

358
00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:34.880
and I should say, you know, that's what's interesting and what's important about

359
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:40.279
the story we just talked about the
Unexplained magazine is that that's kind of gone

360
00:29:40.279 --> 00:29:45.519
way's mainstream and it's gotten into a
lot of news. But this one also.

361
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:51.920
But this is when Tom Carey was
at American University in November and he

362
00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:55.759
said, I've got these photos of
an alien, but I can't show you,

363
00:29:55.880 --> 00:30:00.000
but we'll show them to you later. And it was unfortunate, fortunate

364
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:03.119
in that a lot of people just
rolled their eyes, I mean, and

365
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:07.279
a lot of people question was this
the best place to say that? Because

366
00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:11.759
this was the first time such a
prestigious university was, you know, doing

367
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:14.680
a panel like this, or at
least the first time in a long time,

368
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.319
and so that might not have been
the best place or at least,

369
00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:22.359
you know, you need to show
your evidence, and so people question if

370
00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:26.480
those is the best place for Tom
Carey to talk about these photos. Finally,

371
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:30.440
some more information has been revealed.
Just the other day, Jime Moussan,

372
00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:37.640
the Mexican journalist and UFO researcher,
did an online kind of press conference

373
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:41.519
with Tom Carey and his colleague,
his partner, Don Schmidt, you know,

374
00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:48.519
both the two premiere Roswell researchers.
They also had another witness to this

375
00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:55.920
whole thing, the friend of the
sister who found these photos. And they

376
00:30:55.960 --> 00:31:00.440
also had embedded in there a little
bit of this video from I guess the

377
00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:03.799
film historian who had looked at these
and we'll talk more about that because that's

378
00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:11.160
the best part really. But so
they gave more details essentially that these photos.

379
00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:15.839
It confirmed some of the rumors that
were out there, but at least

380
00:31:15.880 --> 00:31:22.160
it's more firsthand. But yeah,
so I guess this lady was cleaning up

381
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:25.720
this house, getting it ready for
an estate. Sale. It was a

382
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:30.039
house here in the Phoenix area of
I guess, a well to do couple

383
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:33.880
who had passed away. She found
this box of photographs. She thought that

384
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:37.599
was in the pile of stuff to
be thrown away. She decided to keep

385
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:42.400
it. She puts it in her
garage. Then ten years this was nineteen

386
00:31:42.440 --> 00:31:47.240
eighty nine, I guess. Ten
years later, she looks at it and

387
00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:51.160
she's looking through it, and the
box is kind of falling apart, and

388
00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:56.240
she sees these pictures of like Clark
Gable and Eisenhower and stuff like this.

389
00:31:56.759 --> 00:32:00.400
Although these are at events, it
doesn't look like these people are hanging out

390
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:04.680
with Clark Gable and Dwight Eisinghower.
It looks like they were at events they

391
00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:09.759
were at and we're taking pictures of
them, like golf tournaments or special events

392
00:32:09.799 --> 00:32:15.119
stuff like this. So the box
is falling apart. They take the wrapped

393
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:19.640
up slides and look at those,
and there's alien, an alien in these

394
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:22.920
two slides, allegedly, So they
look for some people. They finally get

395
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:29.319
a hold of Don Schmidt and Tom
Carey, who helped them analyze these.

396
00:32:30.279 --> 00:32:36.119
They get to this historian who confirms
that the picture was taken in nineteen forty

397
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:39.200
seven. The sleeve that the slides
are in where the slide sleeves they use

398
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:44.200
from nineteen forty two to nineteen forty
nine, so they believe that, you

399
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:47.039
know, it dates this picture to
that period of time. They confirm that

400
00:32:47.079 --> 00:32:52.240
what's in the picture is not an
animal or anything known, and so many

401
00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:57.680
of these people have concluded not only
that it's an extraterrestrial, but that it's

402
00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:02.039
an extraterrestrial from ros Well, since
it was possibly from nineteen forty seven.

403
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:08.079
They have not shown the picture yet. However, they released a lot of

404
00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:14.759
stuff, so we have, you
know, the picture of the Kodak historian

405
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.720
kind of did a recreation of what
this alien would look like off of what's

406
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:22.640
in the photograph, so we posted
a picture of that. But I think

407
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:28.359
the best video with the most detail, that's really well produced was done by

408
00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:31.240
this historian who look, he's going
to put it, he's going to do

409
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:37.599
a documentary, and in that you
can actually see a frame because he's working

410
00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:42.480
on it. Most of the time, his computers fuzzed out when they're showing

411
00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:45.119
the alien picture, you know,
they're blurring the alien picture. But there

412
00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:50.480
is one where he's creating this mockup
of what the aliens look like. And

413
00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:58.519
you can see, you know,
the alien's face apparently from the actual photograph

414
00:33:58.599 --> 00:34:01.720
in this thing if you closely.
But we have all of these videos and

415
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:06.640
interviews posted so you could get up
to date on what's going on here.

416
00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:12.679
So and I didn't even say in
Mexico at the National Auditorium in Mexico City

417
00:34:12.679 --> 00:34:15.760
on May fourth or May fifth,
Sinco de Mayo is when they're going to

418
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:21.440
reveal the actual photographs and I guess
some more of the research, although they've

419
00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:25.719
released most of, if not everything, that they've got so far, research

420
00:34:25.719 --> 00:34:30.239
wise, it'll be interesting to see. I want to see this photo and

421
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:37.199
I'm confused. You know. It's
a cool recreation that they show in this

422
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:44.719
kind of what this alien in this
live would look like. But you know,

423
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:47.599
Carrie says that the head's been removed
from the body of this thing,

424
00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:53.199
so I wonder how they figured that
out with the thing being decapitated. Well

425
00:34:53.199 --> 00:34:57.639
that's a good point, you know, and people have asked, and when

426
00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:01.760
I wrote the story, I didn't
want to make an assumption, but I'm

427
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:07.079
guessing that maybe the head's laying next
to the body. They say, it

428
00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:09.519
looks like this body has been dissected, so that's what I'm guessing, although

429
00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:15.800
they haven't clarified that, right.
Yeah, so we'll we'll have to see

430
00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:20.760
and yeah, I guess everything will
be in the upcoming documentary called Codochrome,

431
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:23.199
And have no idea of a release
date on that, but I guess we

432
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:27.719
can assume that it will be some
time after May fifth. Yeah. The

433
00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:31.159
trailer that guy did for this Codochrome
documentary, which is the I guess the

434
00:35:31.639 --> 00:35:37.360
historian who put that is doing this
is really good. And it was cool

435
00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:43.400
because he showed the pictures to Neil
the grass Tyson and who said, Okay,

436
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:45.840
fine, you know, maybe there
is this is an alien, but

437
00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:50.360
talk to me later, essentially telling
him, you know, let me know

438
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:54.880
when you can release more research and
evidence first. But the point being to

439
00:35:55.039 --> 00:36:00.719
that they're just photographs. We don't
know the owners of these photos are dead,

440
00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:07.800
so we can't ask them how they
got these the circumstances around them.

441
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:14.119
All we can do is guess the
I mean, if they were alive,

442
00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:15.719
they might say, oh, yeah, this was we were on a movie

443
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:21.840
set or something. The other thing
is is that we can't confirm it's extraterrestrial.

444
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:23.800
All we can say is it looks
extraterrestrial, because we don't have the

445
00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:29.400
actual body to do any sort of
testing even to say it's from Roswell.

446
00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:34.320
Nobody knows for sure, because you
know, there's nothing from what I understand

447
00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:37.599
that indicates that. So it's just
a guess. Because of course, these

448
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:43.079
are Roswell's researchers who believe aliens crashed, and there are bodies there that were

449
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:49.079
recovered. So so there's a lot
of I mean, best case scenario is

450
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:54.400
you have some interesting pictures. Yep, that's exactly right. And you know,

451
00:36:54.519 --> 00:36:58.840
I think there are going to be
plenty of people out there who disagree,

452
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:02.039
and and you know, I certainly
know that the people involved with all

453
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:07.880
of these going on, I think
this will be the biggest thing. You

454
00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:12.159
know, Don Schmidt likes to say
the biggest revelation of the millennium or whatever.

455
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:16.199
But yeah, I mean, so
they come out and have these photos

456
00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:21.639
that show something weird that they can
date to a certain time period. Great,

457
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:25.880
Yeah, it's interesting and it's it
can be supporting evidence, but that's

458
00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:29.880
all it is is a photo.
You know, We've got lots and lots

459
00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:35.880
of photos we've seen, and you
know, there are plenty of nice photos

460
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:38.559
from the forties and fifties, you
know, hubcaps flying through the sky.

461
00:37:39.960 --> 00:37:45.039
You know. Hoaxing UFOs is not
a new phenomenon, you know, it's

462
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:49.440
certainly always been there. So I
mean, yeah, you can you can

463
00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:53.599
date a photo and say it's from
the right time for perhaps to show the

464
00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:59.760
alien or aliens from the Roswell crash. But we can speculate, that's all

465
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:01.199
we can do. We can look
at the photos say this is interesting,

466
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:06.079
but we don't know what's in it. And I wonder if it would be

467
00:38:06.199 --> 00:38:10.599
possible to get a slide from nineteen
forty seven and hoax this like an unex,

468
00:38:12.119 --> 00:38:15.920
you know, to could you get
the sleeve and the material? I

469
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:19.880
mean, I don't know, it
is possible, Yeah, slipped the film

470
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:22.800
in and glew it back shut.
Yeah, I don't know. And people

471
00:38:22.840 --> 00:38:25.760
are very resourceful people, Yeah,
fake things all the time for whatever reason.

472
00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:29.719
And obviously there's money behind it because
you see that documentary. It's a

473
00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:34.239
pretty nice documentary, Yeah it is. It's very cool. So so we'll

474
00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:37.000
see a lot of unknowns and hopefully
some of this will get answered, But

475
00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:40.960
no doubt there would be a lot
of people doing a lot of research on

476
00:38:42.039 --> 00:38:45.400
all of this, So we'll see
what happens. And it was very suspicious

477
00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:50.880
that most of the details for the
background come from an interview of the friend

478
00:38:51.079 --> 00:39:00.239
of you know, the woman's brother
who found the allegedly found the but his

479
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:05.880
interview was taken down from YouTube,
and I wonder why that's the case.

480
00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:07.920
Slickly, I was able to pull
the quotes out and stuff that we have

481
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:13.159
in our story before it was taken
down, but a lot of that information

482
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:17.239
is also in this trailer for the
photocra information. Absolutely, yeah, and

483
00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:21.360
I think a lot of that you
know, interview is being taken down whatever.

484
00:39:21.880 --> 00:39:24.360
You can see that there's a lot
of things being done here to hype

485
00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:28.280
it, and I get that.
I mean, they want it to be

486
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:34.480
a big reveal and they're building up
to this gigantic ceremony in Mexico City.

487
00:39:34.599 --> 00:39:38.280
So we'll see what happens. Yeah, we'll see what happened. So and

488
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:45.000
of course other people are frustrated because
Jime Mussan's backed been very adamant about things

489
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:50.039
that have turned out to be hoaxes
in the past, so that also is

490
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:53.920
troublesome. For many researchers, and
you know, he's a bit of a

491
00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:58.639
showman. So this whole thing,
you know, delaying and doing all these

492
00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:02.119
videos and making it the show.
Yeah, yeah, it is a little

493
00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:07.599
concerning, and you know, it
could potentially turn off the mainstream media,

494
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:12.719
the mainstream public from taking it seriously. And look, I mean we talked

495
00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:22.800
about the alleged Roswell video that the
magazine had their technical people prove was authentic.

496
00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:25.360
You know, they authenticated the video, but as we know, it's

497
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:30.599
not authentic. Right, Sure it's
authentic, it was authentically created and probably

498
00:40:30.599 --> 00:40:36.559
the nineties or whatever for a movie. But yeah, yeah, it's frustrating

499
00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:39.280
and who knows if this will have
a positive impact or a negative impact.

500
00:40:39.639 --> 00:40:45.880
But I mean, the whole showmanship
of it all is I mean, I

501
00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:49.760
don't know how to feel about it. I kind of have a problem with

502
00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:53.079
it, but you know, it
is what it is. Yeah. So

503
00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:57.559
finally I want to talk about because
this is a bigger one out there too,

504
00:40:57.639 --> 00:41:00.480
and just to let people know kind
of what's going on with this one,

505
00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:02.599
because I feel it's important that we
do this, especially with the important

506
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:07.679
videos and stuff like that. And
that's when Stephen Greer is sending out Stephen

507
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:13.400
Greer sent out you know this video
atists from a c SETI outing where they

508
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:17.639
go to calling extraterrestrials because they believe, you know, they can communicate with

509
00:41:17.719 --> 00:41:22.639
extraterrestrials and call in these UFOs.
Well, they're at Vero Beach in Florida

510
00:41:23.239 --> 00:41:29.400
and they're doing their meditations to call
in UFOs and these bright lights up here

511
00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:32.320
off the beach over the ocean,
you know, bright orange lights. They're

512
00:41:32.440 --> 00:41:37.920
very impressive. Everybody's really shocked,
and Greer says, there they are,

513
00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:40.039
there's the alien. Send them your
love, you know, thank them for

514
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:45.599
being here, you know, do
your mediitration and through your third eye and

515
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:50.639
stuff like this, he's telling them. And so everybody's really shocked and they

516
00:41:50.679 --> 00:41:54.039
look at these They posted that online
and sent it around, and you know,

517
00:41:54.159 --> 00:41:59.239
one of the witnesses was contacted me
guy I know from Colorado, and

518
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:01.320
he was there and he told me
all about it, and he told me

519
00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:06.119
about how they add other sightings and
you know, they feel like when they're

520
00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:09.679
meditationating they can't see him with their
eyes, but aliens are always there and

521
00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:15.199
they've been able to confirm with the
aliens or arcturians and all of this stuff

522
00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:17.519
around. This video, well,
I had a couple of people look at

523
00:42:17.559 --> 00:42:22.400
it, such as Mark D'Antonio,
who's the chief photo analyst for Moufon,

524
00:42:22.360 --> 00:42:28.559
and also Bruce mcabee, who used
to be the chief photo analyst for Moufon.

525
00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:34.400
But he is an optical physicist who's
worked for the Navy for many,

526
00:42:34.440 --> 00:42:38.519
many many years in the Naval Warfare
Center as an optical physicist. He very

527
00:42:38.599 --> 00:42:45.800
quickly said flares. Mark D'Antonio is
more frustrated. He actually says, these

528
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:50.280
are obviously flares. When you look
at the video, you can see that

529
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:53.679
they are slowly descending, even though
people say are saying they aren't. And

530
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:58.159
they both moved to the right of
a bit, you know, probably being

531
00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:00.880
blown by wind, and then the
when that appeared first fades out, and

532
00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:06.760
then the one that peered second fades
out exactly like flares would be. He's

533
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:10.360
frustrated, and I didn't put some
of this stuff in here, because he

534
00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:16.280
says Greer, having been someone who
is a skywatcher for years, should have

535
00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:23.119
very quickly identified these as flares,
but he's obviously purporting them to be extraterrestrial

536
00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:30.800
and that to him is suspicious because
Gear does charge twenty five hundred dollars for

537
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:37.000
these outings, a lot of money, so you know, I mean essentially,

538
00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:39.199
I believe he's living off of this
and the donations that he gets for

539
00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:44.639
his organization. So he thinks,
you know, is this being used as

540
00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:47.679
a marketing ploy? Other people are
looking into it. And so you have

541
00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:52.599
these two camps, a lot of
the researchers saying they're obviously flares, and

542
00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:55.239
other researchers saying, you know,
are people that were there and support and

543
00:43:55.320 --> 00:44:00.440
just saying no, those are extraterrestrials. Of course, Geer sent out this

544
00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:05.719
image a lot of this extraterrestrial they
believe they got in two thousand and nine

545
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:09.280
at Joshua Tree. I don't see
it whatsoever. And even when you go

546
00:44:09.320 --> 00:44:14.440
to the site, he has a
picture of where the campsite was, and

547
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:20.960
then this et. To me,
it's obviously the Joshua Tree that's right there

548
00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:24.679
in the image, the daytime image. I don't see that it's an extraterrestrial

549
00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:32.519
whatsoever. It's this blob. That
image has always frustrated me that it's being

550
00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:38.679
purported as a as an et.
But that's some of the controversy around this,

551
00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:45.480
this latest video. And you know
what I don't like with the video

552
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:53.239
and the similar outings is just the
high likelihood and I guess kind of overt

553
00:44:53.719 --> 00:45:00.199
suggestibility and telling people what to think. Yeah, you know, in the

554
00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:02.519
video, you hear him telling people
to turn off certain scopes and things and

555
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:08.239
only he's looking, and he tells
everybody that there's no smoke or anything visible

556
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:14.039
through whatever scope he's looking at,
but won't let other people look. Yeah.

557
00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:16.519
I don't know if you've got that
too, but it did like he's

558
00:45:16.599 --> 00:45:21.039
kind of telling people what to think
and people are just supposed to take him

559
00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:25.280
at his word. And I know
people have their beliefs and and you know,

560
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:29.519
that's good. People should believe what
they want to believe. But I've

561
00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:34.840
always had a problem with, you
know, this whole focusing your love and

562
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:39.599
light and good energy to make aliens
appear, extratrustrials appear. And you know

563
00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:44.079
that just seems like such a strange
thing for extraterrestrials to do, Like,

564
00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:46.440
hey, that person wants me to
turn on the light on my spaceship.

565
00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:51.079
And then sometimes they tell them to
like to move around and stuff, like

566
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:54.480
if you focus your energy and send
them, send them your positive feelings.

567
00:45:54.679 --> 00:46:00.400
They'll they'll dance around for you.
Like what extratrustrial is. I'm going to

568
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:02.639
sit there and say, Hey,
that person's sending me a message and wants

569
00:46:02.679 --> 00:46:07.880
me to like waste my gas and
bounce around so that they can be entertained.

570
00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:10.840
Like see you they're bouncing. That
means they love you too. Like

571
00:46:12.039 --> 00:46:14.639
really, I mean, a lot
of stuff is just being made up and

572
00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:19.000
people eat it up. And that's
that's a real shame because there there is

573
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:22.480
quite a bit of legitimate stuff out
there. And I think people who claim

574
00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:25.679
to have all of the answers and
tell you when you're wrong, but tell

575
00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:32.000
you that everything they say is right, that's wrong. I totally, I

576
00:46:32.079 --> 00:46:37.239
totally agree. And you know,
there is a psychological component. When these

577
00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:43.440
people have spent twenty five hundred dollars, that's a that's a major commitment they've

578
00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:49.719
made, and so they want some
payback for that money they've spent. So

579
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:52.920
they even more so than the person
who has just driven out to the to

580
00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:58.719
the woods or to the desert to
look for UFOs, even more so,

581
00:46:58.840 --> 00:47:02.840
they have a vested in seeing something
unusual, So they want to see something

582
00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:09.159
they think is extraterrestrial, really really
bad. And so that's another component also,

583
00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:14.039
this whole thing with smoke and flares. I posted a video that I

584
00:47:14.119 --> 00:47:17.360
got of the Goldwater Range and some
flares and these flares. You can't see

585
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:21.920
smoke. I see these floors,
these flares all the time. In that

586
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:25.559
video, I used my telephoto lens
on a very nice DSL camera that I

587
00:47:25.639 --> 00:47:30.639
have, and you can't see smoke
at all. All you see is these

588
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:36.000
bright, intense lights. And so
when I looked at this video, I

589
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:39.159
noticed what Mark saw. The witness
has said that this didn't happen, that

590
00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:43.760
they stayed stationary. But now when
you watch the video, you can see

591
00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:46.280
they drop. They've dropped a bit, and they have moved to the right,

592
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:51.519
just like Mark d' antonio says.
So first, you know, I

593
00:47:51.519 --> 00:47:53.039
looked at it, I'm like,
wow, this is really cool. But

594
00:47:53.119 --> 00:47:55.480
then when I look more closely,
it's like, oh, you know,

595
00:47:55.519 --> 00:48:00.400
what does look like flares are dropping
and they're moving together in tandem, and

596
00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:02.760
like he says, one fades out
and the other one does. They're also

597
00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:07.559
very similar to the color in my
video, you know, of these flares.

598
00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:10.159
So I kind of thought, you
know what, most likely those are

599
00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:16.559
flares. And the hard part is
is, you know, a video to

600
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:22.119
call it something otherwise has to demonstrate
that it is so. And these don't

601
00:48:22.159 --> 00:48:27.559
demonstrate that they're not flares really,
right, I mean everything in them is

602
00:48:28.159 --> 00:48:31.000
quite in line with the behavior and
appearance of flares. I mean in the

603
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:36.119
video you hear Greer saying, oh
that that color, you'll never forget that

604
00:48:36.199 --> 00:48:38.800
color. That color means this or
whatever, And yeah, I mean we've

605
00:48:38.840 --> 00:48:45.000
seen that color. The color is
also the color of flares. But yeah,

606
00:48:45.159 --> 00:48:50.920
I mean, could it be something
remarkable, absolutely, But to say

607
00:48:50.920 --> 00:48:53.920
it with certainty and tell people exactly
what it is and tell them that you

608
00:48:54.079 --> 00:48:58.440
know for sure that it is not
a flair, that's wrong because you don't

609
00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:00.320
you can say, you know,
we've seen things like this before that have

610
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:06.360
been mysterious and you know, nobody's
claimed responsibility or whatever, and it could

611
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:09.760
be, uh, you know,
an extraterrestrial spaceship. But if you notice

612
00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:14.119
flares are like this too, They
have similar appearance, They appear in the

613
00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:17.400
same way and disappear in the same
way. So we could be looking at

614
00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:22.280
flares. But if it's extraterrestrials,
send them your love, let them know

615
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:25.639
you care. Yeah, you know, there are other ways to go about

616
00:49:25.639 --> 00:49:31.760
it. I just have a real
problem with claiming with absolute certainty that these

617
00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:37.880
are extraterrestrial spacecraft. Yeah, so
more on that, just story people who

618
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:40.760
just give you a lot of money, Yeah a lot. I mean,

619
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:45.840
if you've got ten people there,
that's what two hundred and fifty thousand dollars

620
00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:50.000
whoa, and I think it has
more than that typically at these things.

621
00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:54.199
So, and that doesn't include like
food and lodging. Sometimes it includes the

622
00:49:54.199 --> 00:50:00.679
the rooms, but usually it does
not. So pricey event, and no

623
00:50:00.840 --> 00:50:07.320
doubt. Sure you can come to
the UFO Congress and join our SkyWatch with

624
00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:12.639
Ben Hansen from Factor Fake with a
lot of night vision equipment. Guess how

625
00:50:12.679 --> 00:50:17.280
much it'll cost you. Ours is
free. It's zero road dollars. So

626
00:50:17.559 --> 00:50:21.800
hey, we'll do the same thing, except we'll do it for free.

627
00:50:21.880 --> 00:50:24.119
And you can even meditate and stuff. Sometimes there probably will be people doing

628
00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:30.119
some meditation. That's great, do
it. I love meditation. Help call

629
00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:34.559
them in free experience. Come to
the UFO Congress. Yeah, and come

630
00:50:34.599 --> 00:50:37.280
tell us how greedy we are.
We're greedy bastards with our free events.

631
00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:40.320
So I let us know if you
disagree, because of course we have all

632
00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:45.039
these stories online, and Jason and
I both feel we are certainly not the

633
00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:50.119
authorities. We are very intelligent,
I would like to I think you know,

634
00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:55.360
and we're learned in this area.
But we respect everyone has opinions and

635
00:50:55.679 --> 00:51:00.599
beliefs, and we absolutely respect your
right to believe whatever it is that you

636
00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:06.599
want. And we certainly love to
hear dissenting views as well, as long

637
00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:08.559
as they're respectful. I don't like
to hear the others. Of course,

638
00:51:08.599 --> 00:51:13.559
we get people that are totally jerkofs
don't like to see it. I respect

639
00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:15.679
that they have their opinions, but
hey, come on, you don't have

640
00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:21.920
to be a jerk about it,
right, of course, But some people

641
00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:24.440
don't know any other way to be. Yeah, that's true. Poor guys.

642
00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:29.159
They're just so angry. It's not
a good way to go through life.

643
00:51:29.880 --> 00:51:34.000
But there's our news, a lot
of stuff going on, Yeah,

644
00:51:34.119 --> 00:51:36.519
lots of news, and there's so
much more on the website. Check it

645
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:39.480
out. Yeah exactly. So.
In fact, I wrote this thing about

646
00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:45.320
called about the thing, this old
UK case that is so interesting I think

647
00:51:45.320 --> 00:51:50.760
people should read about. Really cool
but anyway, hopefully I'll have a researcher

648
00:51:50.840 --> 00:51:53.400
on soon to talk about that.
But that's it. Any other news you

649
00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:57.679
wanted to talk about, Jason,
No, sir, go check out the

650
00:51:57.679 --> 00:52:01.320
website of Minds dot tv. It's
all there. Right. Let's go ahead

651
00:52:01.360 --> 00:52:07.519
then and talk to Kathleen. I
am very happy to welcome back to the

652
00:52:07.599 --> 00:52:15.199
show Abduction researcher Kathleen Martin. Hello, Hello, you. I'm doing very

653
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:19.920
well, just extremely busy, of
course, getting ready for the conference.

654
00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:22.440
In fact, I didn't have a
show last week, and I probably you'll

655
00:52:22.480 --> 00:52:29.079
be the last show before the conference, so people I know will be bugging

656
00:52:29.119 --> 00:52:31.880
us about this, but we get
so busy. Yes, well, the

657
00:52:31.960 --> 00:52:37.119
conference is coming right off and it's
a big one. Everyone wants to be

658
00:52:37.159 --> 00:52:40.039
there. Yeah, so, and
it's exciting because you're going to be there.

659
00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:44.719
You won't be speaking this year,
but you'll have a table there,

660
00:52:45.800 --> 00:52:50.679
that's right, and I'm really excited
about it. And you'll be sharing your

661
00:52:50.719 --> 00:52:57.000
table with that someone who you co
author a couple books with, Stanton Friedman.

662
00:52:57.920 --> 00:53:04.440
That is correct. So all right, so let's get into this now.

663
00:53:04.519 --> 00:53:07.920
You've been I'm sure people know because
we've had you on a couple of

664
00:53:07.960 --> 00:53:10.320
times. But just for those who
don't, I know that we get new

665
00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:20.559
people all the time. Your aunt
was Betty Hill of essentially the first abduction

666
00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:24.679
case to really hit the media.
That is correct. It is the first

667
00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:30.239
abduction case to hit the media in
the United States, and that occurred for

668
00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:36.519
the first time in nineteen sixty six, nineteen sixty five in the newspaper,

669
00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:42.119
and then the book was published in
nineteen sixty six. It was revealed to

670
00:53:42.199 --> 00:53:47.079
the public as the result of a
violation of confidentiality, and then my aunt

671
00:53:47.119 --> 00:53:53.480
and uncle decided to let the story
be told. And who wrote the first

672
00:53:53.519 --> 00:54:00.920
book, John G. Fuller okay, same author who wrote the Incident at

673
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:07.440
Exeter m Okay. I couldn't remember
that part. So and of course it

674
00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:16.199
was a big media event thing,
it really was. It became an international

675
00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:24.440
best selling book, which was a
big surprise. And then the movie The

676
00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:30.400
UFO Incidents, starring James Earl Jones
and Estelle Parsons was made about the incident,

677
00:54:30.679 --> 00:54:37.000
and that aired in nineteen seventy five, and that's a pretty it's a

678
00:54:37.039 --> 00:54:43.760
cult classic now, but at the
time was that a big movie. At

679
00:54:43.800 --> 00:54:51.440
the time, it was the weekly
television movie that was watched by millions of

680
00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:59.800
people, and then so and then
for years after that, you worked with

681
00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:05.239
move On, and in fact you
did a lot of different things for them.

682
00:55:05.239 --> 00:55:10.400
And I know you graded my Field
Investigator test when I first took one.

683
00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:20.280
Yes, I joined Moufon in nineteen
ninety one and became a field investigator.

684
00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:23.360
I was very actively involved in the
state of New Hampshire at that time,

685
00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:29.599
became a state section director, and
then move On asked me to be

686
00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:37.159
its director of Field Investigator Training.
So I wrote the exams and graded the

687
00:55:37.239 --> 00:55:45.000
exams and for about ten years I
held that job, so for quite some

688
00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:52.119
time, and then you left that
job in order to begin writing books.

689
00:55:52.239 --> 00:56:00.320
Is that correct? That's correct.
I had a signed contract for my book,

690
00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:06.440
Captured the Betty and Barney Hill UFO
Experience, and I just knew that

691
00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:13.119
I had the deadlines to meet and
all of the publicity to do, and

692
00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:17.000
it simply did not fit in for
me to do that volunteer job for Moufon.

693
00:56:17.199 --> 00:56:23.840
So I left that and did my
independent research for several years while I

694
00:56:23.920 --> 00:56:30.559
wrote Captured and then Science Was Wrong. Stan Friedman and I wrote half of

695
00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:35.639
each wrote half of Science Was Wrong. I wrote most have captured. But

696
00:56:36.039 --> 00:56:43.400
then in twenty and eleven, Moufon
asked me to come on as its director

697
00:56:43.840 --> 00:56:49.360
of abduction Research, which I think
we're going to change that name to experience

698
00:56:49.480 --> 00:56:53.880
or research, but anyway, I've
been doing. I've been in that position

699
00:56:54.159 --> 00:57:02.119
ever since, and a team and
I developed new protocol for the investigation of

700
00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:10.000
ET contact experiences and we started out
with a very small team. It keeps

701
00:57:10.159 --> 00:57:19.159
expanding and growing. There is currently
an experience or questionnaire on Mouffon's website at

702
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:23.280
just moufon dot com. It's under
research, but it's really not research.

703
00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:30.679
It's a screening questionnaire. If you
complete the questionnaire, the results will go

704
00:57:30.800 --> 00:57:37.480
to me and then I will assign
someone on my team to call you if

705
00:57:37.480 --> 00:57:44.320
that's what you would like to have
happen in order to discuss your experiences,

706
00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:49.400
and you know, we'll just be
a non judgmental ear for you. A

707
00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:54.679
lot of people have never told anyone
before, and it's just really a relief

708
00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:59.920
in a sense to just be able
to tell somebody that this has occurred.

709
00:58:00.440 --> 00:58:06.440
But if you think that you might
want to have an investigation, they'll tell

710
00:58:06.480 --> 00:58:10.639
you what that entailed. If you're
looking for support we can had you in

711
00:58:10.679 --> 00:58:15.960
the right direction. We sort of
act as a triage in a sense,

712
00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:23.360
a triage unit to help people out. Is that questionnaire for people who believe

713
00:58:23.400 --> 00:58:31.760
they are currently having experiences? Yes, okay, it is okay, because

714
00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:37.360
you know there are those questionnaires out
there, and I know that probably the

715
00:58:37.400 --> 00:58:40.360
most famous one was the Bud Hopkins
one where it's like find out if you

716
00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:47.199
are being abducted by answering this questionnaire. Now, this one is actually looking

717
00:58:47.280 --> 00:58:53.880
for commonalities and it's based upon a
commonality study that Denise Stoner and I did

718
00:58:54.039 --> 00:59:00.360
in two thoy and twelve. It
was a year long study. We were

719
00:59:00.400 --> 00:59:07.440
able to find fifty experiencers to participate
in the study and complete the questionnaire.

720
00:59:07.840 --> 00:59:12.400
It wasn't an easy thing to do
because I didn't have it posted online,

721
00:59:12.920 --> 00:59:19.719
so it wasn't simple and you know
where you could just complete it online.

722
00:59:19.800 --> 00:59:27.199
We also, or I carried on
conversations with many of the individuals who participated

723
00:59:27.599 --> 00:59:31.119
as well, and then we had
a twenty five person control group because we

724
00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:39.960
wanted to make sure that the commonalities
among experiencers were not commonalities among the general

725
00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:45.400
population. So at the end of
it was a little over a year.

726
00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:51.719
Actually, we had all of our
information and we were able to collate the

727
00:59:51.800 --> 00:59:59.599
results and do the statistical analysis and
came up with twenty three commonalities out of

728
00:59:59.679 --> 01:00:07.719
forty five questions. And then that's
the basis of your latest book. Correct

729
01:00:07.719 --> 01:00:14.920
with Denise Stoner. Yes, it
is two of the experiencers that we wrote

730
01:00:14.960 --> 01:00:20.320
about in the the book that Denise
is one of them, and Jenny Henderson

731
01:00:20.559 --> 01:00:27.280
is another that is a pseudonym,
but both of them completed the commonality study

732
01:00:27.599 --> 01:00:31.760
and each of them had twenty three
things in common, all twenty three along

733
01:00:31.800 --> 01:00:38.800
with all of the other experiencers who
completed the questionnaire. The majority had twenty

734
01:00:38.920 --> 01:00:45.559
three. And that book is called
The Alien Abduction Files. And did that

735
01:00:45.679 --> 01:00:50.519
just come out last year? That
came out in twenty thirteen. Oh okay,

736
01:00:50.559 --> 01:00:53.800
so it's been a little bit a
while. Time flies, it sure

737
01:00:53.880 --> 01:00:59.239
does. So before we get into
some of the other there is one thing

738
01:00:59.239 --> 01:01:01.719
that you brought up there I wanted
to ask you about, and it was

739
01:01:01.800 --> 01:01:09.440
kind of your idea around this changing
the name from abduction to experience. I

740
01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:15.119
know a lot of people have various
opinions of that on that topic, and

741
01:01:15.239 --> 01:01:20.480
what do you think of that?
Well, in my mind, there are

742
01:01:20.679 --> 01:01:27.320
three words that can be used to
identify a person who has had contact with

743
01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:32.760
extraterrestrials. One is contact ye and
when I think of contact these, I

744
01:01:32.760 --> 01:01:38.320
think of the contact ease of the
nineteen fifties. It's always been a term

745
01:01:38.920 --> 01:01:46.119
that meant positive contact. The people
back then were talking about space brothers who

746
01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:55.679
invited them onto their craft, who
were very nice to humans and did not

747
01:01:55.880 --> 01:02:00.880
have the diseases that we have no
longer had wars. They were highly developed

748
01:02:01.239 --> 01:02:07.920
individuals. That sort of thing.
Then with Betty and Barney, and actually

749
01:02:09.440 --> 01:02:15.679
and Antonio vs. Boas before that, but we didn't know about his abduction

750
01:02:15.840 --> 01:02:21.760
in Brazil. But starting with Betty
and Barney in the United States, it

751
01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:30.239
simply did not fit the contactee scenario. It was an abduction by aliens.

752
01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:37.400
It was very frightening. The contactees
were contacted by individuals who looked pretty human.

753
01:02:37.880 --> 01:02:47.519
Betty's and Barney's abductors were a little
grays, two sides of grays,

754
01:02:47.599 --> 01:02:54.159
and took Betty and Barney, you
know, just sort of stalked them,

755
01:02:55.039 --> 01:03:00.519
playing a game of cat and mouse
with them as they were driving the White

756
01:03:00.639 --> 01:03:07.400
Mountains of New Hampshire. At night, stalk them for about thirty minutes before

757
01:03:07.519 --> 01:03:15.480
they actually came down and stopped their
car as they hovered only one hundred feet

758
01:03:15.519 --> 01:03:20.079
above it. And then at that
point Barney got out of the car.

759
01:03:20.239 --> 01:03:27.880
He's terrified. He observes non humans
on this craft. He senses that he's

760
01:03:27.920 --> 01:03:30.239
going to be captured. He breaks
away, runs back to the car.

761
01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:36.760
They're are buzzing sounds on the trunk
of the car. Tinkling sensation passes through

762
01:03:36.920 --> 01:03:42.599
Betty's and Barney's bodies. The car
is vibrating. The next thing they know

763
01:03:42.760 --> 01:03:50.159
that thirty five miles down the road
they've lost two hours time and this physical

764
01:03:50.239 --> 01:03:53.519
evidence. A couple of years later, they go to doctor Benjamin Simon.

765
01:03:54.000 --> 01:04:02.360
They find out through separate hypnotic regression
that four period of six months with amnesia

766
01:04:02.440 --> 01:04:09.719
imposed at the end of each session
so they can't compare notes. They find

767
01:04:09.719 --> 01:04:16.639
out that they have been kidnapped by
these extraterrestrials, forced on board a craft

768
01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:25.400
where they are given physical examinations and
then released. So that's where the term

769
01:04:25.599 --> 01:04:31.159
abduction came from. It has more
of a negative connotation. But then I

770
01:04:31.360 --> 01:04:39.320
like the word experiencer. John Mack
came up with that term doctor John Mack,

771
01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:46.119
the Harvard psychiatrist who was very interested
in this topic. And it's more

772
01:04:46.159 --> 01:04:56.480
of a neutral term to include everyone
who believes they have had these et contact

773
01:04:56.800 --> 01:05:02.559
and abduction experiences. Yeah, it's
more neutral, and it's interesting because you

774
01:05:02.599 --> 01:05:05.800
know, it makes me think of
cases like Betty and Barney Hill. It

775
01:05:05.920 --> 01:05:14.360
was a terrifying experience. It makes
me think of Travis Walton and one of

776
01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:19.199
my favorite cases you're probably aware of
this is Jan Walski in Poland in nineteen

777
01:05:19.280 --> 01:05:26.639
seventy eight, So a real early
case where it's similar in that well,

778
01:05:26.679 --> 01:05:30.559
he wasn't really terrified, but it
was these weird things. They took him

779
01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:34.159
to a craft, he says,
and asked him to take off his clothes

780
01:05:34.199 --> 01:05:38.960
and they did some examinations. He
was real ho hum about it. But

781
01:05:39.239 --> 01:05:45.840
the extra treasturals in these cases are
not evil themselves, are not you know,

782
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:50.000
malicious. It doesn't seem Betty,
you know, talked about conversations she

783
01:05:50.119 --> 01:05:56.480
had and they seem to be,
you know, not evil or doing these

784
01:05:56.519 --> 01:06:00.360
for bad reasons. Just like the
terrifying aspect was just kind of a side

785
01:06:00.360 --> 01:06:04.360
effect of you know, being taken
by people you don't know, to somewhere

786
01:06:04.400 --> 01:06:10.360
you don't worry, know where you
are, so absolutely, you know,

787
01:06:10.400 --> 01:06:15.400
they they actually apologized to Betty and
Bonnie for frightening them. They told them

788
01:06:15.440 --> 01:06:23.519
that, you know, they just
needed to do a few simple experiments and

789
01:06:23.880 --> 01:06:28.519
that they would release them unharmed.
That would be it would be better if

790
01:06:28.559 --> 01:06:36.360
they didn't remember the experience itself,
better for Betty and Barney. And so

791
01:06:38.239 --> 01:06:45.760
the fear factor was what gave Betty
and Bonnie this sort of negative connotation at

792
01:06:45.800 --> 01:06:53.960
first, you know, but the
ets were actually very kind. And then

793
01:06:54.360 --> 01:07:00.440
you know who. The person I
worked with early on that kind of you

794
01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:04.440
know, demonstrated me to me the
importance of kind of a term other than

795
01:07:04.519 --> 01:07:09.519
abduction to get the fear out of
it was doctor Leo Sprinkle. I was

796
01:07:09.559 --> 01:07:14.320
skeptical of the abduction phenomena, but
people were coming to me. Luckily they

797
01:07:14.320 --> 01:07:18.159
felt comfortable with me, and I
felt comfortable with doctor Sprinkle. He was

798
01:07:18.199 --> 01:07:24.480
in the area and he used that
term. But what he does is also

799
01:07:24.639 --> 01:07:30.800
very therapeutic to try to bring fear
out of the whole experience and to help

800
01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:36.559
people come to terms and not be
traumatized by what they believe is going on

801
01:07:38.639 --> 01:07:43.400
and for that reason, I could
see how moving from the term abduction would

802
01:07:43.400 --> 01:07:48.400
be helpful. Yes, absolutely,
But then again, there's some researchers and

803
01:07:48.440 --> 01:07:51.199
we're going to have, you know, one of our colleagues, Darryl Simms,

804
01:07:51.199 --> 01:07:56.960
will be at the UFO Congress.
And there are people along those lines

805
01:07:57.000 --> 01:08:00.320
who just feel these are bad guys, this is terrible. We need to

806
01:08:00.320 --> 01:08:03.599
stop them. They are abducting us. And I believe, you know,

807
01:08:03.719 --> 01:08:10.280
him and others are very feel strongly
that abduction is what it is and that's

808
01:08:10.280 --> 01:08:15.520
what we need to continue to label
it. Yes, absolutely, and you

809
01:08:15.560 --> 01:08:21.760
know a lot of it is related
to the fear factor. But also when

810
01:08:21.800 --> 01:08:29.000
it comes right down to it,
they are doing medical experiments and sociological experiments

811
01:08:29.319 --> 01:08:33.079
on us without our permission. So
if if they were on earth, they

812
01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:40.079
would be committing a crime by our
laws. And I think that people perceive

813
01:08:40.199 --> 01:08:45.000
of it in that light. And
you know a lot of experiencers believe that

814
01:08:45.119 --> 01:08:51.800
it is for the greater good of
humanity to participate in this, But then

815
01:08:51.840 --> 01:08:56.920
there are others who simply say,
well, they're doing this, it's against

816
01:08:56.920 --> 01:09:04.159
the law and they shouldn't be doing
it. In your experience, where do

817
01:09:04.800 --> 01:09:10.479
the majority of experiencers fall. Do
they most of them feel that you know,

818
01:09:10.840 --> 01:09:14.960
this is being done for the greater
good or do most feel like that

819
01:09:15.039 --> 01:09:19.359
latter group that you know this is
bad news. Well, I have to

820
01:09:19.399 --> 01:09:26.960
tell you. In the beginning,
before they have memories of what has occurred

821
01:09:27.119 --> 01:09:31.399
on the craft, they feel that
they've been snatched. They're very, very

822
01:09:31.439 --> 01:09:36.720
fearful, they're very uncomfortable. They
want it to end. But when they

823
01:09:36.760 --> 01:09:44.319
come to the point where they actually
recall what happened when they were on the

824
01:09:44.399 --> 01:09:50.039
craft, then many people change their
minds. They develop a connectedness to the

825
01:09:50.159 --> 01:10:00.640
ets and feel that they are willing
participants in this. And you know,

826
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:06.840
Barbara Lamb and part of her therapy
with individuals who have been taken, has

827
01:10:08.079 --> 01:10:15.960
asked them under hypnosis if how it
came about, and they have said that

828
01:10:15.079 --> 01:10:21.600
they had entered into a contract agreetan
to this before they were born. So

829
01:10:23.039 --> 01:10:26.319
you know, some people say,
well, I didn't enter into a contract,

830
01:10:26.479 --> 01:10:31.239
but many people think that they have
and their willing participants. So I

831
01:10:31.279 --> 01:10:39.560
don't know. In terms of percentages, I would say after they have worked

832
01:10:39.600 --> 01:10:45.439
through the trauma, after they have
recalled their experiences on the craft, I

833
01:10:45.479 --> 01:10:57.439
would say that more than fifty percent
would like to continue with the experience and

834
01:10:58.479 --> 01:11:02.479
if they had the opportunity to make
it and they would not. That's really

835
01:11:02.520 --> 01:11:08.239
interesting. And I mean, how
do you feel as far as the motivations

836
01:11:08.319 --> 01:11:13.760
for these abductions. Do you feel
that what's going on, assuming you know,

837
01:11:13.800 --> 01:11:18.199
aliens are abducting people, that it
is for the greater good? They

838
01:11:18.279 --> 01:11:24.239
have told me it's for the greater
good, and so yes, I believe

839
01:11:24.720 --> 01:11:29.199
that it is right. A lot
of people think that they've lied to me,

840
01:11:30.119 --> 01:11:34.000
you know, but I do believe
that it is for the greater good.

841
01:11:34.399 --> 01:11:39.840
M So you touched on something really
important right now, and this is

842
01:11:39.960 --> 01:11:42.560
kind of going to be what we're
going to talk about the rest of the

843
01:11:42.560 --> 01:11:45.199
time. But before I get to
that, I want to ask you about

844
01:11:45.560 --> 01:11:55.159
one more thing, and that is
accidental awareness, because there's this new paper

845
01:11:55.199 --> 01:12:00.399
that came out and it's really interesting
that someone decided to do this comparison with

846
01:12:00.560 --> 01:12:06.199
what's called accidental awareness with alien abduction. But I guess to begin, can

847
01:12:06.239 --> 01:12:15.319
you explain what accidental awareness is?
Yes, Well, this is a topic

848
01:12:15.359 --> 01:12:25.000
that was brought up by a medical
doctor and a colleague who had hypothesized that

849
01:12:25.680 --> 01:12:35.520
all experiencers who recalled waking up on
a table in an et craft were actually

850
01:12:36.199 --> 01:12:44.960
recalling waking up during a surgical procedure
that they had in an operating room on

851
01:12:45.079 --> 01:12:56.840
Earth, and that the medical memories
that they had a bug eyed well she

852
01:12:56.920 --> 01:13:00.520
said, greenish humanoids. Well,
most people don't don't see bug eyed greenish

853
01:13:00.640 --> 01:13:06.039
humanoids, but that was put into
the paper. I think of, you

854
01:13:06.079 --> 01:13:16.399
know, the surgical crew dressed in
their surgical garb with perhaps those magnifying glasses

855
01:13:16.479 --> 01:13:23.840
that they wear when they're doing surgery. So that's where that idea came from.

856
01:13:24.079 --> 01:13:31.079
I became involved in this because this
doctor of actually of psychiatry at Columbia

857
01:13:32.479 --> 01:13:42.720
wrote an article about it and stated
that Betty and Barney had probably had accidental

858
01:13:42.880 --> 01:13:47.479
awareness rather than an alien abduction.
And she said that, you know,

859
01:13:47.560 --> 01:13:55.399
Barney was actually recalling his the tonsilectomy
that he had when he was a child,

860
01:13:55.720 --> 01:14:00.159
and she actually used false information.
I wrote an article about this,

861
01:14:01.560 --> 01:14:05.680
and it's posted on my website.
It was also published in other places.

862
01:14:05.760 --> 01:14:12.119
My website is Kathleen dash Martin dot
com, so you can go there if

863
01:14:12.159 --> 01:14:19.199
you want to read it now.
But she completely left out the fact that

864
01:14:19.279 --> 01:14:25.720
Betty and Barney had conscious, continuous
recall of observing a silent, hovering,

865
01:14:26.279 --> 01:14:31.680
disshaped craft only one hundred feet above
them. That this was not brought out

866
01:14:31.720 --> 01:14:41.720
through hypnosis. For the first time, she misrepresented Barney's hypnosis. He actually

867
01:14:41.920 --> 01:14:49.319
did not have a consolectomy, and
so she was just using information that she

868
01:14:51.079 --> 01:15:00.319
thought would fit into her hypothesis rather
than using accurate information, just attempting to

869
01:15:00.359 --> 01:15:03.640
say that, oh, it's all
nothing. No one is ever having these

870
01:15:03.720 --> 01:15:10.560
experiences. They're just remembering waking up
during surgery. Well, I have to

871
01:15:10.600 --> 01:15:17.920
tell you that many many experiencers have
never had surgery. It certainly doesn't fit

872
01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:24.000
in. But it was just another
hypothesis that was thrown out by the medical

873
01:15:24.039 --> 01:15:30.359
community to try to explain all of
this away. It's unfortunate in that I

874
01:15:30.359 --> 01:15:35.720
thought the accidental awareness is really interesting, the whole idea of it. Of

875
01:15:35.760 --> 01:15:42.079
course, she's very careful in her
study of accidental awareness and why it happens

876
01:15:42.119 --> 01:15:45.520
and how it happens and the effects
it has on people. But it's very

877
01:15:45.760 --> 01:15:56.479
unfortunate and frustrating and certainly, you
know, poor on her part that she

878
01:15:56.640 --> 01:16:02.399
didn't apply that amount of study as
she's supposed to do, you know,

879
01:16:02.520 --> 01:16:09.720
as a scientist to the abduction phenomena, as she did to you know,

880
01:16:09.760 --> 01:16:15.199
the accidental awareness, to find if
there really was some sort of similarity.

881
01:16:15.560 --> 01:16:18.680
There perhaps is a case out there
she could have used if she would have

882
01:16:18.720 --> 01:16:24.600
done the research. But certainly the
Betty and Barney Hill case did not fit

883
01:16:24.720 --> 01:16:30.760
what she was trying to describe at
all. Absolutely it did not. So

884
01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:34.000
that was really frustrating. I was
surprised she took that case because it's more

885
01:16:34.039 --> 01:16:39.479
well known and she just was just
so off on so many things when it

886
01:16:39.479 --> 01:16:45.079
came to that case. Yes,
I mean, but would you it is?

887
01:16:45.159 --> 01:16:48.399
I could see how it would be
possible, not that I've ever heard

888
01:16:48.399 --> 01:16:53.359
of it happening, and I think
it would be incumbent upon her to find

889
01:16:53.399 --> 01:16:58.159
this out. I could see how
it could be possible that what she is

890
01:16:58.239 --> 01:17:03.680
theorizing could have had happened in one
or two cases out there. But to

891
01:17:03.800 --> 01:17:09.520
kind of just kind of say it's
kind of the answer for the overall phenomena

892
01:17:08.680 --> 01:17:15.079
was that she just certainly did not
prove whatsoever. Well, there's always the

893
01:17:15.159 --> 01:17:23.399
possibility that a tiny percentage of individuals
who believe they've been taken are remembering a

894
01:17:23.439 --> 01:17:30.239
different kind of experience. And it
is true that some people wake up when

895
01:17:30.239 --> 01:17:38.159
they're under anesthesia during surgery and that
it can be a traumatic event for them.

896
01:17:38.279 --> 01:17:42.399
There has been a very large study
done on this. But then to

897
01:17:42.479 --> 01:17:49.800
say that this applies to wall alien
abduction experiences is nonsense. Right. So

898
01:17:49.920 --> 01:17:53.800
moving on to one of the things. The big thing that I wanted to

899
01:17:53.800 --> 01:17:58.720
talk to you about, and you
just talked about it was that you said

900
01:17:58.840 --> 01:18:03.239
that the ETS had told you,
because it's only been recently correct that you

901
01:18:03.600 --> 01:18:15.279
have come out and admitted that you
have had experiences yourself. Yes, I

902
01:18:15.359 --> 01:18:23.399
did. It was a very very
difficult decision. I had been keeping that

903
01:18:23.560 --> 01:18:30.520
secret for about forty eight years,
very long time. And why did you

904
01:18:30.800 --> 01:18:36.479
feel that you shouldn't Why did it
take forty eight years? Well, I

905
01:18:36.520 --> 01:18:42.720
have to tell you that I never
do anything for only one reason. I

906
01:18:42.760 --> 01:18:50.359
had several, several reasons for deciding
to come forward. One reason is that

907
01:18:50.640 --> 01:19:00.560
many many researchers and experiencers are now
stepping forward and out of the shadow and

908
01:19:00.960 --> 01:19:08.000
admitting that they have actually had these
experiences themselves. I did it for the

909
01:19:08.039 --> 01:19:15.279
benefit of other experiences, not for
myself. Because I want my focus to

910
01:19:15.359 --> 01:19:23.239
continue to be upon my research and
not my personal experiences. But I'm you

911
01:19:23.279 --> 01:19:29.600
know, I'm considered to be highly
credible and scientific in this field, and

912
01:19:30.960 --> 01:19:39.079
I have a lot of respect,
I believe from other individuals, and so

913
01:19:39.239 --> 01:19:45.239
I thought that it would be good
at this time to step out and say,

914
01:19:45.960 --> 01:19:50.800
you know, it has actually happened
to me as well. And I'm

915
01:19:50.800 --> 01:19:57.319
a highly skeptical individual. I'm naturally
skeptical. It took me many, many

916
01:19:57.439 --> 01:20:02.960
years to actually admit it to myself
that this was real, even though there

917
01:20:03.000 --> 01:20:10.199
were other witnesses who had the same
memories. Another reason I came forward is

918
01:20:11.079 --> 01:20:23.399
because I'm an experience or advocate.
It helped to actually be an experiencer to

919
01:20:23.479 --> 01:20:30.199
be an experience or advocate as well, and also for my own benefit in

920
01:20:30.239 --> 01:20:34.520
a sense, because I have been
told by many people who have stepped forward

921
01:20:34.760 --> 01:20:41.439
that it's cleansing, that it really
takes a huge weight off their shoulders,

922
01:20:42.119 --> 01:20:44.880
and so I thought, well,
that would be a good thing if it

923
01:20:44.880 --> 01:20:49.840
would take a weight off my shoulders
instead of just holding this tension inside.

924
01:20:49.960 --> 01:20:56.000
And it actually did, so it
was cleansing, Yes, it was.

925
01:20:57.479 --> 01:21:02.600
I could see the timing being like, I could see this being the right

926
01:21:02.680 --> 01:21:12.760
time in that you know, you've
established yourself. You've not only written worked

927
01:21:13.079 --> 01:21:16.479
with Stanton Friedman, who of course
is one of the most reflected respected persons

928
01:21:16.520 --> 01:21:23.439
in this field. You've gone on
to do your own research with Denise,

929
01:21:23.680 --> 01:21:29.600
and so I could see how now
this would be a good time to do

930
01:21:29.680 --> 01:21:34.000
that since you have established yourself and
I can see what you're saying and that

931
01:21:34.079 --> 01:21:43.399
it's difficult to gain credibility if people, I mean, it really shades people's

932
01:21:43.520 --> 01:21:48.319
view. The first thing they will
see is you as an experiencer as opposed

933
01:21:48.319 --> 01:21:55.319
to you as a researcher. Had
you shared this information earlier, yes,

934
01:21:55.439 --> 01:22:01.920
and I had actually intended never to
share this information and want to continue to

935
01:22:02.000 --> 01:22:09.600
be thought of primarily as an experiencer, not as an experience as a researcher.

936
01:22:10.479 --> 01:22:14.119
Can I say, oh, okay, no, no, as a

937
01:22:14.159 --> 01:22:21.039
researcher. So when did when do
you remember this starting up? When did

938
01:22:21.039 --> 01:22:30.640
you first have experiences? Well,
I've tried to trace that back and I've

939
01:22:30.640 --> 01:22:35.359
been able to trace it back to
nineteen sixty six. In nineteen sixty six,

940
01:22:35.880 --> 01:22:42.319
I had a close encounter with a
UFO with my aunt Betty Hill,

941
01:22:42.560 --> 01:22:46.640
my mother, my brother, my
grandmother and a family friend. We were

942
01:22:47.239 --> 01:22:54.000
at country pond in Newton, New
Hampshire. It was February of nineteen sixty

943
01:22:54.079 --> 01:23:00.199
six when we had this close encounter. In April of sixty six, a

944
01:23:00.279 --> 01:23:09.119
craft was observed landing on my grandparents
farm by a commercial pilot and by my

945
01:23:09.239 --> 01:23:17.439
grandparents. I lived across the street
from my grandparents, and it left physical

946
01:23:17.479 --> 01:23:24.239
trace evidence on the ground. It
shared off some trees, it was reported,

947
01:23:25.000 --> 01:23:29.960
and I thought about that over and
over again. It was part of

948
01:23:30.000 --> 01:23:34.600
a contact experiment that my aunt Betty
had agreed to do. We have a

949
01:23:34.640 --> 01:23:43.600
team of scientists really, yes,
yes, And she was attempting to get

950
01:23:43.640 --> 01:23:48.039
a craft to come into my grandparents
farm and she was saying, you know,

951
01:23:48.720 --> 01:23:54.399
come in and land and you will
be welcomed, you will be received,

952
01:23:54.439 --> 01:23:59.359
that sort of thing. And so
as I started to think about this,

953
01:24:00.640 --> 01:24:06.680
well, actually I knew at some
point my mother and I both had

954
01:24:08.239 --> 01:24:15.560
memories of finding ourselves on at and
I started to wonder if it was in

955
01:24:15.600 --> 01:24:20.680
that timeframe when that craft had landed, because I thought, why did it

956
01:24:20.720 --> 01:24:27.000
come down in land on the farm, what was its purpose? I mean,

957
01:24:27.159 --> 01:24:30.279
I don't think they were taking a
coffee break sitting inside that craft.

958
01:24:31.319 --> 01:24:39.479
And so then I started to try
to connect the dots, and my mother

959
01:24:39.560 --> 01:24:45.920
and I did have these memories of
finding ourselves on a craft in the presence

960
01:24:45.000 --> 01:24:53.760
of these extraterrestrial beings. It was
sort of glimpses of memories. And more

961
01:24:53.840 --> 01:25:03.039
recently I had hypnosis about this,
and I remember actually the terror of finding

962
01:25:03.399 --> 01:25:12.399
these extraterrestrial beings in my bedroom and
lifting the covers and being taken out of

963
01:25:12.439 --> 01:25:25.800
bed with my mother. Wow.
And yes, it's a common It seems

964
01:25:25.920 --> 01:25:30.720
to be at least a common theme. And you know, you can confirm

965
01:25:30.199 --> 01:25:36.960
this or you know, maybe I'm
off, but that when one person is

966
01:25:38.000 --> 01:25:45.439
abducted, their parents, siblings,
maybe a sibling, maybe a parent,

967
01:25:45.640 --> 01:25:55.199
maybe a child also remembers having these
experiences. Yes, that's true. It

968
01:25:55.760 --> 01:26:03.279
does appear to follow along family genetic
life. And the interesting thing to me

969
01:26:03.680 --> 01:26:12.439
is that after this occurred, we
started to have paranormal activity in my childhood

970
01:26:12.439 --> 01:26:16.840
home. We hadn't had it before
this. There were light orbs that would

971
01:26:17.039 --> 01:26:26.079
dart around. There was a little
poltageist activity where occasionally something would fly off

972
01:26:26.119 --> 01:26:30.399
a shelf. My father was a
boy scout leader. He had a bag

973
01:26:30.520 --> 01:26:35.199
full of feathers he was making headdresses, and one day that bag just picked

974
01:26:35.279 --> 01:26:42.439
up in the air and feathers jumped
out everywhere. Another time, he was

975
01:26:42.720 --> 01:26:48.520
at home alone in his bed at
night, and there was a closet in

976
01:26:48.560 --> 01:26:54.640
the hallway right next to the bedroom. It had heavy sliding doors, and

977
01:26:54.680 --> 01:27:00.479
the sliding doors would slide, and
then he would go out and close the

978
01:27:00.560 --> 01:27:03.600
door, and he'd hear its light
again and it would be open again.

979
01:27:04.159 --> 01:27:13.000
And this was very unnerving to him. And this kind of activity years later

980
01:27:13.640 --> 01:27:20.039
I found is common among experiencers.
I never knew that this was a part

981
01:27:20.079 --> 01:27:26.159
of it, and in twenty twelve
I was able to put that together in

982
01:27:26.239 --> 01:27:33.239
the Commonality study that eighty eight percent
of experiencers had had similar events take place

983
01:27:33.520 --> 01:27:40.439
in their homes. Now, I
also had a missing time experience while traveling

984
01:27:41.000 --> 01:27:50.359
two hours missing time, and periodically
throughout my lifetime I would find these ets

985
01:27:50.760 --> 01:28:00.399
in my room. I had some
memories of being taken to the craft looked

986
01:28:00.479 --> 01:28:06.760
for prosaic explanations over and over again. I didn't want to really admit that

987
01:28:06.880 --> 01:28:13.800
this was real, even though I
was terrified. After this happened to me

988
01:28:13.880 --> 01:28:17.720
as a teenager. I was afraid
of my bedroom closet. I would look

989
01:28:17.800 --> 01:28:25.079
under my bed at night. I
was very, very frightened about the whole

990
01:28:25.159 --> 01:28:31.880
thing. But it took me many, many years to come to terms with

991
01:28:32.079 --> 01:28:40.840
all of this and to stop the
denial and to realize that it really did

992
01:28:41.039 --> 01:28:46.720
occur. There were marks on my
body consistent with marks that are seen by

993
01:28:47.079 --> 01:28:54.840
other experiences. You know, just
quite a lot of evidence that I collected

994
01:28:54.880 --> 01:29:00.119
over the years and then discarded or
didn't even well. I did keep a

995
01:29:00.159 --> 01:29:04.560
little journal for some of it,
but not all of it. Was there

996
01:29:04.680 --> 01:29:11.720
one poignant moment where you realized this
is real, this is really happening to

997
01:29:11.760 --> 01:29:16.920
me. Or was it gradual?
I have to say that it was gradual.

998
01:29:19.039 --> 01:29:28.880
But in two thousand and twelve I
was speaking to a man in Australia,

999
01:29:29.840 --> 01:29:38.840
and this man claimed to have contact
with extraterrestrials who had healing powers.

1000
01:29:39.479 --> 01:29:43.680
And so, you know, you
never know if you should take someone with

1001
01:29:43.800 --> 01:29:48.800
a grain of salt, or you
know if their claims are real. His

1002
01:29:48.960 --> 01:29:57.239
name is Paul Hamden, and I
said to Paul, well, I have

1003
01:29:57.279 --> 01:30:02.680
a complaint to make to these extraterrests. I felt that they were responsible for

1004
01:30:02.760 --> 01:30:09.319
an illness that I had during one
event, and that in that one event

1005
01:30:09.399 --> 01:30:14.399
there was quite a lot of evidence
that something went wrong. And I said,

1006
01:30:14.720 --> 01:30:20.319
will you tell them to come heal
me? Because I'm tired of being

1007
01:30:20.399 --> 01:30:28.319
ill, and so I didn't expect
anything to happen. Four nights later,

1008
01:30:28.760 --> 01:30:34.720
I was taken and there was a
process, and I had memories of this

1009
01:30:35.359 --> 01:30:42.840
and I have not been ill with
that illness ever since that date, really,

1010
01:30:43.000 --> 01:30:47.680
but that was confirmation to me that, you know, this is real.

1011
01:30:48.159 --> 01:30:53.039
I know that it's not pathological.
The fact that I'm not ill anymore,

1012
01:30:54.319 --> 01:30:57.880
you know, and it was a
recurring illness and I have not had

1013
01:30:57.920 --> 01:31:02.479
it ever since that night, So
that was really confirmation to me that,

1014
01:31:03.119 --> 01:31:10.319
boy, this is real. And
didn't something similar happen to you to your

1015
01:31:10.399 --> 01:31:19.520
aunt a healing event? Yes,
actually, when she was suffering from cancer,

1016
01:31:19.600 --> 01:31:27.239
when she was dying and in the
last stages of cancer, she had

1017
01:31:28.520 --> 01:31:40.600
fallen down and had fractured her arm. She was not well at all.

1018
01:31:40.680 --> 01:31:47.600
She had a pancoast tumor in her
upper right lung that was squeezing the brachial

1019
01:31:48.399 --> 01:31:57.159
nerve and terrible terrible pain and paralysis
in one arm. Not in good shape

1020
01:31:57.199 --> 01:32:00.920
at all. She had to sit
up on the livingram couch in order to

1021
01:32:01.119 --> 01:32:05.199
even sleep at night. She couldn't
lie down due to the pain. And

1022
01:32:05.439 --> 01:32:15.560
on one particular night something occurred and
I went to her home at eight o'clock

1023
01:32:15.600 --> 01:32:19.760
every morning to be with her for
the day. Her daughter was staying with

1024
01:32:19.800 --> 01:32:24.359
her in the timeframe that this occurred. I stayed with her some of the

1025
01:32:24.439 --> 01:32:31.079
time as well. But on this
particular morning things were very unusual. Normally,

1026
01:32:31.119 --> 01:32:36.199
when I arrived, both Daddy and
and my cousin were dressed, They

1027
01:32:36.239 --> 01:32:41.680
had had their breakfast, The house
was opened up for the day. All

1028
01:32:41.720 --> 01:32:47.560
of the blinds were opened. This
particular day, it was not like that

1029
01:32:47.880 --> 01:32:55.039
at all. Everything was dark and
closed up, and they were still in

1030
01:32:55.119 --> 01:33:00.560
their nightgowns. And my cousin came
out and said, something really strange happened

1031
01:33:00.600 --> 01:33:08.640
here. And Betty had no memory
of anything happening. Connie didn't really have

1032
01:33:08.720 --> 01:33:15.560
a memory of it either, But
we saw changes in both Betty and in

1033
01:33:15.760 --> 01:33:23.039
her cat. Her cat, Raisa, was Betty's constant companion, always sat

1034
01:33:23.520 --> 01:33:29.000
beside her or on her lap,
but this cat, for one solid week

1035
01:33:29.680 --> 01:33:35.600
completely avoided Betty. She looked like
she was terrified of her, and if

1036
01:33:35.640 --> 01:33:41.680
she did enter that living room,
she would skirt the perimeter of it up

1037
01:33:41.720 --> 01:33:45.399
against the wall. She looked very
nervously at Betty, and she spent most

1038
01:33:45.399 --> 01:33:51.520
of her time underneath the bed in
the bedroom, which Betty never entered at

1039
01:33:51.560 --> 01:34:00.520
that point in time. And also
we started to observe changers in Betty's physical

1040
01:34:01.000 --> 01:34:05.760
appearance, and we had a medical
doctor who looked in on her and recorded

1041
01:34:06.279 --> 01:34:13.680
this as well. Her eyes had
been sort of very dull and glazed over

1042
01:34:14.800 --> 01:34:18.319
all of a sudden they were bright
and shiny. She had been very very

1043
01:34:18.399 --> 01:34:26.880
ill, and all of a sudden
there was an improvement and she seemed to

1044
01:34:27.279 --> 01:34:36.000
gain some strength. The fractured arm
was very surprising to us because the doctor

1045
01:34:36.119 --> 01:34:41.319
said, well that because she smoked
and she had cancer, she would that

1046
01:34:41.479 --> 01:34:45.680
arm would probably never heal. Uh. It did heal, and it healed

1047
01:34:45.720 --> 01:34:56.079
it incredible and incredibly fast rate.
Coincidentally, that morning when I when I

1048
01:34:56.199 --> 01:35:01.640
arrived, the cast that was on
her arm, that was held on by

1049
01:35:02.000 --> 01:35:08.680
an ace bandage at that point,
had been removed and was neatly folded on

1050
01:35:08.800 --> 01:35:14.039
a chair across the room on the
other side of the room and certainly out

1051
01:35:14.039 --> 01:35:18.840
of Betty's reach, and Betty was
not able to walk at that point.

1052
01:35:19.359 --> 01:35:24.039
We had no idea how that occurred, but it was very, very strange.

1053
01:35:24.600 --> 01:35:29.039
So for a while we just really
hoped and prayed that Betty was going

1054
01:35:29.079 --> 01:35:32.560
to be completely healed as well.
But in the end she was not.

1055
01:35:33.439 --> 01:35:38.680
This happened in June of two thousand
and four, and she passed away in

1056
01:35:38.800 --> 01:35:44.880
October of two thousand and four.
So a lot of people don't know that

1057
01:35:44.920 --> 01:35:51.800
she continued to have experiences right throughout
her life. She would never admit to

1058
01:35:51.920 --> 01:36:00.000
that, but as I have looked
through her archival collection, the letters that

1059
01:36:00.079 --> 01:36:05.920
she wrote, the testimony of other
individuals who were with her, it becomes

1060
01:36:06.039 --> 01:36:14.359
quite clear that she did have experiences
over and over again throughout her lifetime.

1061
01:36:15.399 --> 01:36:19.279
Well, and you mentioned that situation
where essentially and I wanted to ask more

1062
01:36:19.279 --> 01:36:26.640
about this. Some scientists asked her
if she could essentially arrange for a sighting

1063
01:36:27.319 --> 01:36:31.920
and this happened. Yes. I
wrote about this and captured the Betty and

1064
01:36:32.000 --> 01:36:40.199
Barney Hill UFO experience. Robert Homan
and C. D. Jackson were two

1065
01:36:41.039 --> 01:36:47.199
individuals who were on this story.
Early on in November of nineteen sixty one,

1066
01:36:47.359 --> 01:36:51.640
they interviewed Betty and Barney for the
first time. They had heard about

1067
01:36:51.920 --> 01:36:59.960
this through Donald Keiho, the director
of the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena,

1068
01:37:00.119 --> 01:37:04.560
So they went to Betty's in Barney's
home in November of sixty one.

1069
01:37:05.279 --> 01:37:13.840
There was very little contact between November
of sixty one and the spring of nineteen

1070
01:37:14.000 --> 01:37:18.840
sixty four, after Betty and Barney
had completed their hypnosis sessions with doctor Simon.

1071
01:37:19.960 --> 01:37:27.319
At the end of the sessions,
doctor Simon had done counseling with them

1072
01:37:27.439 --> 01:37:36.000
to help them to remember and integrate
into their consciousness the content of the sessions

1073
01:37:36.039 --> 01:37:42.720
of the abduction experience itself, and
Betty wrote to Homan and Jackson about this.

1074
01:37:43.319 --> 01:37:46.319
Robert Homan was a writer for IBM, and C. D. Jackson

1075
01:37:47.359 --> 01:37:56.439
was a senior engineer, so there
were scientists that they worked with. Also.

1076
01:37:56.840 --> 01:38:04.039
Jacques Valet ended up going to one
of the experiments and what Betty would

1077
01:38:04.039 --> 01:38:10.560
do is they gave her a script
and they would The script would read sort

1078
01:38:10.600 --> 01:38:16.039
of, it is the two hundred
and forty ninth day of the year,

1079
01:38:17.319 --> 01:38:28.359
go to such and such a place. There will be people observing and show

1080
01:38:28.399 --> 01:38:32.920
yourself that sort of thing, you
will not be harmed. And so Betty

1081
01:38:33.239 --> 01:38:40.439
would do that. She used a
variety of different scripts. One of those

1082
01:38:40.479 --> 01:38:45.079
scripts was to land on the Barrett
farm, and I told what happened in

1083
01:38:45.159 --> 01:38:51.920
nineteen sixty six April of sixty six. I've written more extensively about that and

1084
01:38:53.000 --> 01:39:00.880
captured the Betty and Barney Hill UFO
experience. Another experiment that she did was

1085
01:39:00.800 --> 01:39:05.640
they had used the word moccasin and
she was supposed to send the craft to

1086
01:39:06.479 --> 01:39:15.199
peer over Moccasin Street, and they
actually did see a craft over Moccasin's Street.

1087
01:39:15.760 --> 01:39:20.279
But in the end, even though
this occurred, they couldn't say that

1088
01:39:20.399 --> 01:39:26.199
it was more than coincidence. They
knew that the craft appeared, they could

1089
01:39:26.199 --> 01:39:30.720
not say that Betty was responsible for
it appearing. But it was a pretty

1090
01:39:31.479 --> 01:39:40.039
strange coincidence to me that she would
attempt to bring craft in and it actually

1091
01:39:40.560 --> 01:39:45.960
showed up. But then, I'm
a social scientists, so I suppose that

1092
01:39:46.000 --> 01:39:56.920
makes a difference with social science and
physical science the level of evidence required and

1093
01:39:57.039 --> 01:40:00.960
the type of evidence required, right, Because I mean social scienceists you're looking

1094
01:40:00.960 --> 01:40:06.800
for correlations, which can be dangerous
because a correlation doesn't necessarily mean one is

1095
01:40:06.840 --> 01:40:13.279
another, whereas physical sciences you need
hard data that this is a result of

1096
01:40:13.319 --> 01:40:20.520
that. Yes, that's absolutely so. There was also an experiment that failed

1097
01:40:20.520 --> 01:40:25.399
in nineteen sixty seven Skywatched sixty seven. There were a lot of people there,

1098
01:40:25.439 --> 01:40:30.800
including Jacques Valet, and the problem
was that Betty said she needed four

1099
01:40:30.800 --> 01:40:39.239
months of attempting this contact night after
night after night generally to be successful.

1100
01:40:39.760 --> 01:40:45.800
That's what her experiments had shown.
Now they had acquired funding. The scientific

1101
01:40:45.840 --> 01:40:50.399
team had acquired funding and didn't want
to wait for the four months. Well,

1102
01:40:50.439 --> 01:40:55.479
Betty advised them that, you know, the experiment might not work,

1103
01:40:56.439 --> 01:41:00.840
might not be successful, but they
pushed for her to do it anyway,

1104
01:41:00.279 --> 01:41:05.039
and they gave her very little time
in which to do it. And they

1105
01:41:05.079 --> 01:41:12.279
did not see a UFO on that
particular night, but I think it was

1106
01:41:13.239 --> 01:41:17.359
either a night later or a week
later, and it's all in captured that

1107
01:41:17.399 --> 01:41:24.079
one actually did show up in close
proximity to where they were. Do you

1108
01:41:24.159 --> 01:41:30.399
think that other experiencers have this ability
as well? Some do and some don't.

1109
01:41:32.199 --> 01:41:35.560
Well, and it's strange that,
you know, and the incident at

1110
01:41:35.600 --> 01:41:39.760
the farm and they ended up taking
her, her niece, you know,

1111
01:41:39.920 --> 01:41:45.079
and possible sister at the same time. And it's just curious that they should

1112
01:41:45.119 --> 01:41:49.800
do that, and that it's not
the sort of action that seems to be

1113
01:41:51.079 --> 01:41:58.800
about creating any sort of relation.
It seems to be an action that doesn't

1114
01:41:59.199 --> 01:42:04.000
seem to have any concern with you
know, communicating, rather more like us

1115
01:42:04.039 --> 01:42:15.720
with animals, it's about experimentation.
And then you know science, yes,

1116
01:42:15.840 --> 01:42:20.960
it was what they do is scientific, that's for sure. Do you do

1117
01:42:21.000 --> 01:42:32.319
you have any idea as to do
in your communications or ideas research, have

1118
01:42:32.439 --> 01:42:42.560
a plan of eventual you know relations? Oh boy, you know, I

1119
01:42:42.600 --> 01:42:48.920
don't know if they are how soon
there will be open contact. Uh.

1120
01:42:49.079 --> 01:43:00.840
They have said that they're they're waiting
for mankind to move ahead. On an

1121
01:43:00.840 --> 01:43:08.279
evolutionary scale, you might say that
human consciousness will change and that we will

1122
01:43:08.279 --> 01:43:16.039
be more like them, and you
know, we're not generally empathic individuals.

1123
01:43:16.119 --> 01:43:25.079
These ets, in my estimation,
are empathic. They seem to be able

1124
01:43:25.119 --> 01:43:30.279
to feel what humans can feel,
and many experiences are empathic as well.

1125
01:43:30.720 --> 01:43:39.720
You know, they communicate differently than
we do. Their communication is telepathic and

1126
01:43:39.960 --> 01:43:48.680
they communicate with humans, oftentimes through
downloads of information where you know a lot

1127
01:43:48.720 --> 01:43:58.279
of information streams into your consciousness all
at once, very rapidly. M So

1128
01:43:58.560 --> 01:44:00.560
it could be sometimes we've had a
lot of learning to do. Still,

1129
01:44:02.760 --> 01:44:05.720
yes, we have a lot of
learning to do. And they're very concerned

1130
01:44:05.880 --> 01:44:12.880
that if they do this too quickly
that there will be very bad results,

1131
01:44:13.800 --> 01:44:23.600
that there will be military action by
the military on the earth, and that

1132
01:44:23.680 --> 01:44:28.680
it could have very bad results from
us, because you know, if we

1133
01:44:28.720 --> 01:44:38.199
retaliate against them, the possibility that
they might fight back and then there would

1134
01:44:38.199 --> 01:44:45.479
be massive destruction. Well, I
guess my last question would be that I

1135
01:44:45.560 --> 01:44:51.680
know there are still a lot about
your experiences that you are you are holding

1136
01:44:51.680 --> 01:44:57.560
back and you don't want to share
everything. Is there a point where you

1137
01:44:57.600 --> 01:45:00.359
think you may write a book or
you may begin to talk about your own

1138
01:45:00.399 --> 01:45:08.439
experiences. I'm not sure you know. I do this. I'm speaking on

1139
01:45:08.520 --> 01:45:15.680
a very limited basis. Now.
I'm hoping for more communication with them,

1140
01:45:16.600 --> 01:45:25.880
because now that I have finally lost
that feeling of being scared silly, I'm

1141
01:45:26.600 --> 01:45:30.760
able to communicate more. The only
problem is it's been two years since I've

1142
01:45:30.800 --> 01:45:35.880
had any contact. If I have
more contact, and if they give me

1143
01:45:36.119 --> 01:45:45.000
more information, I intend to share
it with other people. Well, thank

1144
01:45:45.039 --> 01:45:47.359
you so much for being on the
show again. We're pretty much out of

1145
01:45:47.479 --> 01:45:50.880
time and it's fun. I'm looking
at the events coming up, and it's

1146
01:45:50.880 --> 01:45:56.119
always great that you and I get
to be at a lot of the same

1147
01:45:56.159 --> 01:45:59.720
events. So in a couple of
weeks, you'll be at the UFO Congress

1148
01:45:59.760 --> 01:46:03.600
here in Arizona. Then we'll be
at Contact in the Desert together in May,

1149
01:46:04.239 --> 01:46:11.000
and then are we spend the fourth
of July weekend together for the last

1150
01:46:11.039 --> 01:46:15.479
few years in Roswell, New Mexico, So we'll be seeing each other again.

1151
01:46:15.239 --> 01:46:18.479
You've got a lot of conferences coming
up, but are you do you

1152
01:46:18.520 --> 01:46:24.560
have a book in the works as
well. I'm working on a new book

1153
01:46:24.800 --> 01:46:30.479
very slowly. It's requiring a tremendous
amount of research, and it's not about

1154
01:46:30.520 --> 01:46:34.039
abductions this time. It's not a
whole new topic. I'm not at liberty

1155
01:46:34.079 --> 01:46:38.760
to say what it's about, Okay, So there's more books to come,

1156
01:46:39.159 --> 01:46:45.359
and of course everybody can find out
more about you and your work at Kathleen

1157
01:46:45.560 --> 01:46:50.079
Dashmartin dot com. That is correct. It's m A R D E.

1158
01:46:50.399 --> 01:46:55.319
N. Mardin all right, great, and of course we'll have a link

1159
01:46:55.359 --> 01:47:00.159
on our website and on this show. But thank you so much, which

1160
01:47:00.279 --> 01:47:04.239
it's been a pleasure. Well,
thanks for having me. Good to talk

1161
01:47:04.279 --> 01:47:09.359
to you again. All right,
thank you so much Kathleen for being on

1162
01:47:09.399 --> 01:47:12.199
the show. As you know,
as we talked about, you can go

1163
01:47:12.239 --> 01:47:15.640
to Kathleen dash Martin or just google
her to find her website and read about

1164
01:47:15.640 --> 01:47:18.960
all of her books. Or come
to the UFO Congress because she'll be there

1165
01:47:19.520 --> 01:47:25.119
with Stanton Friedman selling her books and
signing them and answering any questions you may

1166
01:47:25.199 --> 01:47:29.119
have. Very excited to see her
of course the UFO Congress. This is

1167
01:47:29.119 --> 01:47:32.159
the last show until the Congress.
Go to Ufocongress dot com to see more

1168
01:47:32.199 --> 01:47:38.319
about that, or Openminds dot tv. I've talked for months now about all

1169
01:47:38.359 --> 01:47:41.439
of the great guests, so you
can go online to read more about that.

1170
01:47:41.920 --> 01:47:44.520
Hopefully we'll see you there, all
of you who are there. I'm

1171
01:47:44.520 --> 01:47:48.199
sure you're excited, So am I
come and say hello to Jason, Maureen

1172
01:47:48.520 --> 01:47:54.720
and I and all of our other
cool people who will be helping us out

1173
01:47:54.720 --> 01:47:58.520
there. So it's going to be
a ton of fun. Also, we

1174
01:47:58.600 --> 01:48:03.159
did post a new spacing out that'll
be the last one before the Congress as

1175
01:48:03.199 --> 01:48:06.119
well, where he talked about some
of this news and some other stuff,

1176
01:48:06.199 --> 01:48:11.760
so really cool stuff. Jason did
an interview with a guy who's made a

1177
01:48:11.840 --> 01:48:17.720
movie, and we also have some
interviews with some sci fi geeks talking about

1178
01:48:17.760 --> 01:48:23.199
aliens. It's a lot of fun, so check that out open Minds dot

1179
01:48:23.239 --> 01:48:26.359
tv you'll find all of this stuff. Thank you to Caleb Hags who did

1180
01:48:26.359 --> 01:48:29.359
the open and closed music. You
could go to the radio page to find

1181
01:48:29.399 --> 01:48:32.479
a link to his music that he
posts for free. It's awesome stuff,

1182
01:48:32.960 --> 01:48:38.840
and thank you to you all for
listening. We will talk to you soon,

1183
01:48:39.359 --> 01:48:45.039
hopefully see you at the Congress.
Until then, audio some mood duchos,

1184
01:49:39.680 --> 01:49:43.520
your motions sound the glass of Erring