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Hello, and good morning. How
are you doing today, Carmen, Good

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morning, Arrow, I'm well.
Thank you for having me on. Oh

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listen to your energy. You're about
to play a joke on me. It's

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the British version, right, having
me on. I guess. Thank you

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for inviting me. That's so funny
you bring that up, because you know,

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being in radio, I've always been
taught that we're not talking to people.

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We're talking with people, you're having
a conversation, you're not. And

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so that's interesting that you bring that
up. And I love that side of

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your heart when it comes to storytelling
or a story sharing, let's put it

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that way. How is it that
you're able to receive these stories and turn

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them into basically a street speak attitude
of today, because you know how today

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is. It is just filled with
so much judgment. I know, you

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know what, I'm old. I
don't care anymore and you know, yeah,

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right, but you know boo,
So I see is I spend my

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life? Really? This is trawling
through old tones, tms, old books,

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old anthologies, collections of stories.
I probably have two thousand books that

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are all folklore, fairy tale,
myths and legends, and no I have

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not read them all, but I've
had many, many, most of them,

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I would say, And I'm always
looking for books that seemed like they

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would take children to either a fun
place, a wise place, or a

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place of safety. And that makes
sense. It does because I do want

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to know. I have openly admit
there's something that I'm missing in this story,

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and I felt like I needed to
talk with you to find out what

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is it that I'm missing in this
because it reminds me so much of the

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woman that swallowed the fly. I
guess she's gonna die, so therefore she

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eats the cat, and then she
eats this, and she eats that.

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What is the story of Karina?
All right? So it's called a cumulative

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tale, and stop your callings.
We have a winner. Thank you for

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playing all right. Arrow. First
of all, that's exactly what it is,

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with your finger on it. A
cumultan story builds on itself. It's

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also this is the house that Jack
built, this is the grain inside there,

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and so forth. All right,
So children, these are these are

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pneumonics. They're they're meant to help
children with memory. So they were told

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so that you would learn how to
remember, because remember we used to read,

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I say, remember ha ha.
We used to learn by rote,

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by memory. We had to memorize
everything when I was a kid five thousand

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years ago when the stones were soft, mind you. But so throughout history

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human beings have used memory. So
these those kinds of stories. Now this

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particular question, but what does it
mean? So this story is found in

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India, in Denmark, and in
so many places throughout the world. My

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father is cute with you know,
I'm Cuban. He told me a version

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of it when I was a child. Each country takes the folk tale or

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fairy tales that comes to them and
they adapt it to their culture. That

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makes sense. So there's a Chinese
Cinderella, there's an Egyptian Cinderella. It's

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called wrote Office in the Gilded Sandal. There is a Native American Cinderella.

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I think it's called ash Face.
So each culture takes the story and puts

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on the clothes of that culture.
Why did I choose this one, Well

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for two things. One because I
love that particular frame. There's also a

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circular frame. There are many like
you know, you end up where you

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started, Like I should give him
out a cookie, he's gonna want a

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glass of milk. And then you
end up again by giving him at the

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end, giving him a cookie,
and then you start all over again.

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But for cumulative stories, it sometimes
doesn't matter how it ends. Like the

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old woman who swallowish lie right,
it doesn't matter so much that perhaps she'll

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die. It's actually kind of horrid. But many children's early picture books were

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pretty pretty awful. Actually, but
there were a hard time. You know,

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if you had to kill a chicken, a six year old maybe sent

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out to the yard to do it. So those were a harder time.

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We've softened many of these stories.
This story is about two things. I

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think this sister is my opinion.
Everybody takes they think they see in a

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fairy chill or Sokay, I think
it's about being really weary about who you

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invited dinner, okay. Number one. Number two, it's not underestimate the

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power of small letter things, because
in the end it's two very small things

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who use not strength but strategy in
order to teach the cat a lesson and

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release the prisoners. As it were
great story really when you when you unpack

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it, it's a great story.
You open up my heart tist to look

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at it in a way of going, wait a second here Karina, actually

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she was challenged or the cat was
challenged in a way, but she didn't

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let that stand in the way.
I'm going to go where I need to

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go, but you're not going to
get in my way. I will hold

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our time together. But the thing, the thing is is that I'm not

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going to let me be weighed down
by this moment that that really kind of

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could have weighed me down, you
know what I mean. Well, that's

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an interesting take. I hadn't thought
of it that way, honestly. Yeah,

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I see her more of a ravenous
creature, and yes she is very

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much. You know, I'm not
you get out of my way, but

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you know, she she tends to
into the story. I have to think

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about that. That's interesting. What
I read was that that Karina, you

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know, we all have a life
that's that's filled with people that tend to

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get in the way, and we'll
sit down and we'll go well, I'm

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not going any further. But Karina
teaches people that know, keep moving.

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You're still going to hold on to
that moment, but just keep moving.

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Well, that's interesting, and I
never stand speaking of in the way of

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different person a person's different interpretations of
a story because I find really curious things

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that's not mine. I find her
it's pretty horrid. Actually, not so

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much that she won't back down,
because I love that in the character.

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But when I do that in a
book, it's generally a small character who

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is very power us and will not
back down. She is she is big,

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she's pushy, she's raving us,
and it doesn't matter that she's she

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doesn't she doesn't matter. She's a
character, and her character will simply have

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what she will have, end of
no matter if you said, no matter

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who stands in her way. That's
not my favorite kind of character. But

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then you have all these people who
are basically imprisoned, right because she didn't

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just get her away. Other people
were sacrificed in order for her to get

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her away. And that's something for
children to think about. Yeah, you

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got what you want? Is who
pays? Oh my god. Now there's

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a lesson right there, right there, And that's for these of the crab.

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Yeah, that's that's a heart opener. Well, you're darling. Well,

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if you look back over the book, you'll also see that the little

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crabs are always almost always in the
illustrations, in the background, hidden somewhere.

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Watching it makes me think of monsters
ink. What was her name?

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Watch, Watching, always watching,
that's April Us. So I see them

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as to mean that the characters that
are often kind of quiet, whether in

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an office setting, in a school, in a in a neighborhood, in

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you know, whatever, in a
situation, in any situation where something is

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bad is happening, and they're they're
thinking, they're they're they're observers, and

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they're they're strategizers, you know,
they're, they're, they're they're a little

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bit they're not they no, they
can't possibly take on this creature. So

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they're thinking, they're thinking, and
because there are two of them, and

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this is I remember I work in
metaphors. So these are my thoughts.

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That doesn't mean you have to think
this way. But as the writer,

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to me, they formed an alliance. We're stronger together as an alliance,

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you know, when we have others
and and you know, and the book

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was dedicated to a young group of
very wonderful pacifists, you know, non

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violent young Cubans who are in the
island now trying to exact some democratic change.

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And that's what's dedicated to. And
so you know, if you want,

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if you want to see a metaphor
there, maybe it's there. Maybe.

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So then when when the people are
or the things inside Karina are set

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free, do you see that as
human lives being set free in Cuba?

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Oh that was a direct question.
Well how should I say this? A

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girl can dream? Oh god,
I love you so much. I love

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you too. Oh man, all
right, this has been great. Oh

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my god. Ten minutes with you
is not enough. We need to We

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need to get together and have a
real conversation because I do love where your

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heart is and I just I just
love how how you're taking things, because

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I would love to get your interpretation
of London Bridges because when I found out

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that it was about dark times too, it's like, oh my god,

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oh my goodness, oh yeah,
the plague. Yeah, we need to

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talk sometimes, just about stories.
They'd be lovely. Thank you so much

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for having me here. Oh my
goodness, you're a dog. You'd be

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brilliant today. Okay, oh you
got me all right? Was saying to

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you done, You've done it.