1
00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:14,720
Made a decision o pas Sonny someone
on I had vision nice night. So

2
00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:20,160
what's up, everybody. It's for
crying out loud and it I have special

3
00:00:20,199 --> 00:00:24,320
co hosts in studio because Stephanie Wilder
Taylor, our girl, is out on

4
00:00:24,399 --> 00:00:29,760
the road in New York City promoting
her new book, Drunkish Out on TUESA

5
00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,439
out today, so check it out. She's doing the Drew Barrymore Show.

6
00:00:33,719 --> 00:00:38,759
But I have special guests in studio, my old pal Patrick Hickey, great

7
00:00:38,799 --> 00:00:43,640
to be here, Bad TV,
and Kate Casey. So she's gonna dish

8
00:00:43,719 --> 00:00:48,640
on all reality stuff everybody, Like
you know, we've been talking about reality

9
00:00:48,679 --> 00:00:53,520
TV documentaries and welcome Kate, thank
you, thanks for having me. Glad

10
00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,479
to be back. Oh, thank
you for coming back. We always love

11
00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,759
talking trash TV. Speaking of trash, I wouldn't call it Drew Barrymore trash

12
00:01:00,799 --> 00:01:06,560
TV. But she famously does eight
minute segments on how to clean red wine

13
00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,879
out of bed sheets. I'm not
sure she does. Oh yeah, oh

14
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,840
god, Stephanie. It takes eight
minutes. She eats up like a quarter

15
00:01:14,879 --> 00:01:17,439
of her show. Yeah yeah,
she's done like twenty them. She doesn't

16
00:01:17,439 --> 00:01:19,359
with like you know, all famous
people like, hey, how do you

17
00:01:19,439 --> 00:01:23,519
She asked them how they clean wine
out of their sheets? She's fine,

18
00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,480
yeah, what do you do?
What happens if she asks them on that

19
00:01:27,519 --> 00:01:32,680
and they're like an alcoholic, Well
maybe we'll find out. So that's what

20
00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:38,239
Stephanie's there for. There you go. So we were emailing each other last

21
00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:42,760
night talking about I mean, so
much stuff to watch, that so much

22
00:01:42,799 --> 00:01:47,480
all been watching. I don't even
know where to begin, but Kate,

23
00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,760
you mentioned I don't know wherever if
you have something you want to start with,

24
00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:57,120
or some TV shows docs. Yeah, Well, I am a person

25
00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,319
who gets very obsessed with things and
then I consume them and then I let

26
00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,319
them go. And that's why I'm
kind of the best person to tell everybody

27
00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,120
kind of what to watch as the
weeks go on, because I feel like,

28
00:02:07,599 --> 00:02:10,919
what I'm going to curate a list
for everybody of what to watch that

29
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,439
week that they can be obsessed with
and then they have no choice but to

30
00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,319
move on because there's gonna be something
that, you know, pops up the

31
00:02:17,319 --> 00:02:21,000
following week. So I know that
you guys have talked about it before,

32
00:02:21,039 --> 00:02:24,080
but I was obsessed for a while
with Love Has Won. But this week

33
00:02:24,479 --> 00:02:30,199
there is going to be a documentary
that that is out on the seventeenth and

34
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,639
it's called American Nightmare. And this
is going to be your new obsession because

35
00:02:34,719 --> 00:02:38,680
it's made by the same producers as
Tinder Swindler. Oh yeah, So if

36
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,120
you like true crime stuff, this
is right up your alley. So the

37
00:02:43,159 --> 00:02:46,800
backstory is this, this couple lives
in Vallejo, California. They go to

38
00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:53,319
bed one night and they're awoken at
three am by home invader. They you

39
00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:58,560
know, cover their eyes. There's
a pre recorded message playing. They can

40
00:02:58,599 --> 00:03:00,919
tell that there's like a gun almost
like a gun to their head and the

41
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:07,599
message says you we're like he puts
earphones on them and for the air,

42
00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:14,319
and the guy he says, I'm
going to give you a drug you aren't

43
00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,919
and then when you wake up,
you're going to be in a like a

44
00:03:17,719 --> 00:03:22,759
like a delineated square with red duct
tape. You cannot leave that because there

45
00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:27,960
is a camera that is watching you. And if you leave that before something

46
00:03:28,039 --> 00:03:32,639
like twelve hours, she will be
killed because I'm going to take her and

47
00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:38,599
if you if you call the police
before then, I will cut her face.

48
00:03:38,639 --> 00:03:45,400
So he's drugged. He wakes up
from you know, after the drugs

49
00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,360
have worn off, he's in this
square. He finally calls police. He

50
00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,879
says, my girlfriend is gone,
and the police are sort of like,

51
00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,680
this sounds like an absurd situation.
Well, Denise is gone for two days,

52
00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:01,879
but then she reappears South Huntington Beach
and she says, I was abducted.

53
00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,240
There were several people in you know
that came and were part of this

54
00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:15,080
intricate caper, and I was sexually
assaulted twice. And the Vale Jill Police

55
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,240
Department went out into the media,
did a press statement, the lead you

56
00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,399
know, chief or something, and
they said, uh, this is a

57
00:04:21,439 --> 00:04:26,920
hoax. They've made up this whole
story, and they're actually, you know,

58
00:04:26,959 --> 00:04:30,720
they've they've basically taken resources from this
our city and this is a complete

59
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:38,920
hoax. Weeks later, Matthew Mueller
is arrested for another event, and when

60
00:04:38,959 --> 00:04:43,959
they go to arrest him, they
find all this equipment in his South Lake

61
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:50,439
Tahoe cottage and they find a computer
that's tied to Denise Hoskins. So now

62
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:55,560
it is revealed it was not a
hoax, it was real, and it

63
00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:01,959
kind of is a window into how
the American media, specifically once they branded

64
00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,199
someone some way, it is near
impossible for them to erase that like that

65
00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:13,120
imagery. So people, in fact, the Vallejo Police Department at the time,

66
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,399
compared her to the Gone Girl,
the twenty twelve book, which was

67
00:05:16,399 --> 00:05:20,240
made into a movie starring Rosamund Pike
and Ben Affleck. So she was branded

68
00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:26,120
as this like hoaxer, this gone
girl, when in fact she had been

69
00:05:27,519 --> 00:05:31,319
kidnapped and sexually assaulted, and they
went through this horribly traumatic experience. And

70
00:05:31,399 --> 00:05:35,759
so over three episodes, not only
do they interview the couple, they also

71
00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:41,079
interview the police officer who was the
one who figured out that this man,

72
00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,360
Matthew Muller, who had been arrested
for something else, was the same person

73
00:05:45,959 --> 00:05:49,519
that had kidnapped this woman from Vallejo, California. And they include the interrogation

74
00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:54,079
videos, which are very difficult to
watch because from the beginning they're like,

75
00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,480
you're making this up. You're making
this up. The ones with Aaron,

76
00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,000
and you also get to see all
the footage when they arrested Matthew, and

77
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,160
they go over all the equipment and
when he did and essentially he'd been using

78
00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:08,720
a drone to spy on them,
and then when he was arrested. He

79
00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:13,639
said, I had like a mental
breakdown. I feel really regretful. Oh.

80
00:06:13,639 --> 00:06:16,720
Also, after the Lejo Police Department
said we think this is a hoax,

81
00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:23,000
he wrote an anonymous email to the
media to Henry lee Is, a

82
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,879
reporter at San Francisco Chronicles, saying
we did it, meaning he said like

83
00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:28,720
there were a bunch of us,
which is not true. It was just

84
00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,079
one person. We did it,
and this was not a hoax, and

85
00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,639
we feel really regretful about what we
did. It's like a whole crazy sequence

86
00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,759
of events. So you know how
you're obsessed with Tindler Swindler, This is

87
00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,160
like that, but even more,
especially if you love true crime stuff.

88
00:06:43,439 --> 00:06:46,519
But it's like a justice issue.
And the great thing is that couple ended

89
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,680
up getting married and they have a
family now. But my god, that

90
00:06:48,759 --> 00:06:53,839
experience and they just walk you through
every single step, it's wild. I'm

91
00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,160
in. I'm so in. So
it does sound like an American nightmare for

92
00:06:57,199 --> 00:06:59,920
sure. Now, Kate, I
remember that story in the news and it's

93
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,199
yeah, he's mystery, Okay.
So it's funny that you bring this up,

94
00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,680
and you bring up also the concept
that it's just engraved in your brain.

95
00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,839
The news conference and then the story
ends there. As far as the

96
00:07:09,879 --> 00:07:14,759
public, you never go the never
It's just another case of that. Do

97
00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,079
you guys remember the boy in the
balloon? A little boy, uh,

98
00:07:18,199 --> 00:07:24,000
basically jumped in a balloon that his
father made and then everyone was chasing around

99
00:07:24,399 --> 00:07:27,759
and it turned out that the dad
wanted to be a reality TV star.

100
00:07:29,959 --> 00:07:33,000
Okay, so what do you remember
about that story? That's it? I

101
00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,079
remember that the dad you want to
be a star? Yeah, the dad

102
00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:41,920
was just parton last year from the
governor of Denver that it was. They

103
00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,399
actually went back and what really got
him was the family went on CNN and

104
00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:48,160
the little boy had said, well, I went to the balloon, Daddy

105
00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,319
told me to go in the balloons
for reality TV or something to that effect,

106
00:07:51,399 --> 00:07:56,199
and we all just jumped on that
twenty second clip and then we went

107
00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,879
after that family and the guy like
was unemployable for like eight years because it

108
00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,360
just hung over his head. But
anyway, sorry, different type story,

109
00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,879
but the same idea, the same
thing of the just creating a narrative and

110
00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:11,199
then just sticking with it. I
I interviewed the producers there on my show

111
00:08:11,199 --> 00:08:13,120
on Tuesday, and I asked,
what is the one thing that's like haunted

112
00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:18,439
you most about this, and they
said it's two things. One the idea

113
00:08:18,519 --> 00:08:22,240
of a home invasion is probably the
worst thing that could ever happen to you.

114
00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:28,120
Yeah, and then of course feeling
like your truth is not being accepted

115
00:08:28,519 --> 00:08:37,320
and having someone completely dismantle your persona
and you have no control over it.

116
00:08:37,279 --> 00:08:41,240
Kate in this doc, does it
really? Because the one thing about the

117
00:08:41,279 --> 00:08:46,360
Tinder swindler is you just love that
everyone's we're slowly getting in on this guy,

118
00:08:46,519 --> 00:08:48,879
and it's kind of fulfilling at the
end when they I mean, I

119
00:08:48,879 --> 00:08:52,080
don't think he got arrested, but
at least he got called out for all

120
00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,639
his you know, well the one
yeah to your point or a question yes,

121
00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:00,799
because in the end, this is
what I liked about that the project

122
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,919
they did for Tinders, when the
women really had the strongest voices at the

123
00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,960
end. It's similar to this where
Denise is a force, the woman who

124
00:09:07,039 --> 00:09:11,720
was kidnapped and her husband's completely supportive. She's a force. And then the

125
00:09:11,759 --> 00:09:16,159
police officer that kind of put all
this two together because they've arrested Matthew Muller.

126
00:09:16,159 --> 00:09:18,799
They're going through his things and she's
like, wait, this looks like

127
00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:24,159
a fake gun, and there's all
this equipment, and she saw a string

128
00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,559
of blonde hair and she said that, like what is this? So of

129
00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:31,799
course they kept the blonde hair and
it stayed with her like there's something else

130
00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,399
going on here, and it was
her putting all the pieces together. So

131
00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,559
she was kind of like the hero
of the story too. So at the

132
00:09:37,639 --> 00:09:39,679
end you get to see those two
meet. Oh wow, gotcha, and

133
00:09:39,759 --> 00:09:43,399
then you're like, yeah, I
mean the woman who was the police officer

134
00:09:43,519 --> 00:09:48,519
was tireless, and it just so
happened that she was working that day and

135
00:09:48,519 --> 00:09:52,399
they asked her, do you want
to go with this on this arrest?

136
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:56,279
And she got in the car.
I had that not happened, we would

137
00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:01,000
have perhaps still believed that Denise had
made the whole thing up. Wow wow,

138
00:10:01,399 --> 00:10:05,159
I blame Sherry Pipe and Pip and
whatever. PI. Yeah, no,

139
00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,679
no, we believe her. We
bring that I bring up with them

140
00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,559
too, Like that's the problem,
I said, also the American public,

141
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:16,159
where we expect such salacious stories,
like it was more fascinating the idea of

142
00:10:16,159 --> 00:10:22,840
somebody committing a hoax than the reality
that someone could have broken into a couple's

143
00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:28,679
home and watched them like that is
too much for people. The truth also

144
00:10:28,279 --> 00:10:31,919
kind of it makes you remember the
Golden State Killer, because that's what he

145
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:39,720
would do your head. And yeah, do you know I interviewed his neighbor.

146
00:10:39,639 --> 00:10:43,000
This woman reached out to me and
she said that she said, I

147
00:10:43,039 --> 00:10:48,440
realized in retrospect that he was my
neighbor. And she said that when they

148
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,879
were kids, like hurt their cat, like their animals kept up showing up

149
00:10:52,919 --> 00:10:56,759
dead. It's like he would yell
at all the neighbors like shut your kids

150
00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:58,360
up. And then her she said, her mom screamed over the fence.

151
00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,159
If you like kids, you shouldn't
have lived in a neighborhood with kids.

152
00:11:01,279 --> 00:11:07,720
Next day they find their cats dead. Yeah, that's so creepy. Can

153
00:11:07,759 --> 00:11:13,120
I ask you, guys if you've
seen a doc called Daniel on HBO Max.

154
00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,919
I think I did not, but
I put it on my list and

155
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,279
I watch clips of it. I
didn't watch it that week because I felt

156
00:11:20,279 --> 00:11:24,039
like it was going to be too
heavy. Tell me, did you cry

157
00:11:24,039 --> 00:11:26,879
your face off? I did?
And you know, I generally don't like

158
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,960
to watch docs that are gonna,
I guess, quote unquote bum me out,

159
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:35,559
but this one was actually inspiring,
and if we're making recommendations, I

160
00:11:35,639 --> 00:11:39,919
highly recommend the documentary Daniel. It's
an hour and fifteen minutes. I tend

161
00:11:39,919 --> 00:11:41,960
to like short ones, therefore I
can get them in one seating, you

162
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:48,159
know, because I have two kids, and anyway it is, it makes

163
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,480
you appreciate being alive and in a
real way. I think the focus of

164
00:11:52,519 --> 00:11:58,360
the doc this guy named Daniel who
teaches English to students around the world,

165
00:12:00,399 --> 00:12:01,879
and he filmed all of it and
all his travels. He went to forty

166
00:12:01,919 --> 00:12:07,519
two countries and he's just so pure. It's I feel like I have this

167
00:12:07,639 --> 00:12:11,000
burama where I can read people with
bullshit and I just I really connected with

168
00:12:11,039 --> 00:12:15,720
this person. I don't want to
give too much away, but I'll say

169
00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,320
there's a couple of little twists and
turns in it, and just don't watch

170
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:24,720
the trailer. Just watch that HBO
Max. Really I'll watch it because I

171
00:12:24,759 --> 00:12:28,320
love not wanting. I don't like
to know really too much. I just

172
00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:33,000
want to dive into the dock and
dive in. But yeah, there's just

173
00:12:33,039 --> 00:12:37,759
been I know what we've already talked
ad nauseum. I don't know if you

174
00:12:37,759 --> 00:12:43,279
guys have about the Italian Grace.
That's the one that just sticks in my

175
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,639
brain so much. But I'm just
curious, Kate, if you have any

176
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,759
I mean, not a little spoiler
alert, but anything about maybe what season

177
00:12:50,799 --> 00:12:54,159
three is going to be like,
if you know anything about it at all.

178
00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,679
I don't know, but I'm friends
with the Shannon Evangelista, who is

179
00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:03,240
the pre and she was she was
chasing that story for a while, and

180
00:13:03,279 --> 00:13:07,840
you all credit to her. She
has been so tenacious in telling this whole

181
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,480
story, and it's so complicated,
and she said she's always surprised at like

182
00:13:11,879 --> 00:13:16,240
there's always some sort of development to
it. I will say, watching all

183
00:13:16,279 --> 00:13:20,799
of it, I think that it's
really a story about several terrible people.

184
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,120
Like there's not one person that you
like exactly, yes, which is what

185
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:31,559
it makes it captivating. And I
don't believe one person's truth. Yeah,

186
00:13:31,879 --> 00:13:35,440
I am with you. It's like
I don't know where the truth lies,

187
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:41,320
maybe somewhere in the middle. And
I find myself like having not a lot

188
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,399
of sympathy for this girl for some
reason. I do in some ways,

189
00:13:45,399 --> 00:13:48,480
but now I don't know. I
don't I think she's a sociopathic yeah,

190
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,320
I think, Yeah, I think
she's diabolical, And when when they show

191
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,159
the footage of her being adopted,
and like, these idiots. First of

192
00:13:56,159 --> 00:13:58,559
all, they're adopting an adult,
like you've been scammed hardcore. Of course,

193
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,480
it would be like a past or
two. And so when at the

194
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:07,080
end, when there's this reveal that
they that they're that they think she's awful,

195
00:14:07,799 --> 00:14:11,080
I thought, well, hello,
did you meet her? You know

196
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:16,679
online you see support for both sides, and as we're pointing out here,

197
00:14:16,759 --> 00:14:20,679
it truly is great. They they're
they're good and bad in both their stories.

198
00:14:20,679 --> 00:14:24,399
So it's hard to root for anybody
in like the simplest form of trying

199
00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:28,120
to establish where you where you stand
when you're watching this story unfold. I

200
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:35,360
think one thing you could lean towards
Natalie is just her upbringing, because you

201
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:41,600
feel you feel for her, and
she may have kind of developed these bad

202
00:14:41,679 --> 00:14:48,240
skills of manipulation based on her need
to survive kind of given her circumstances.

203
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,519
One issue I have with that doctor, do we ever find out from that

204
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:56,679
adoption agency in Florida who was behind
that? Because that's the same question,

205
00:14:56,279 --> 00:15:03,279
Well, I have to tell you
I did this other what happened to baby

206
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,159
Gabriel? Did you guys watch this? No, I told you about it,

207
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,080
Lenna. I think I told you
about it, And it was like

208
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,600
there was this adoption, it was
like a black market adoption in San Antonio,

209
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,080
and you're trying to figure out what
actually happened to him, right?

210
00:15:16,799 --> 00:15:18,759
It makes it made me realize and
I thought about that. What I was

211
00:15:18,759 --> 00:15:22,720
watching to tell you, Grace,
is that we'll never really know because there

212
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:28,960
is I think if we all have
this assumption that every adoption agency is on

213
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,399
the up and up, and then
it's like all these docs are revealing that

214
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,759
there's this total underbelly, I don't
know we'll ever find the truth. There's

215
00:15:35,799 --> 00:15:39,480
such shady people right right right.
The Gabriel story is not the one for

216
00:15:39,519 --> 00:15:43,960
the little boy in Los Angeles that
his mother and her boyfriend abused him.

217
00:15:43,039 --> 00:15:46,080
Is that No, this one was
the boy that was born in Arizona and

218
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,679
the parents never married, and she
would get angry at the birth father all

219
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,200
the time. He was supposed to
pick the boy up for visiting. And

220
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,320
he gets to the trailer and the
mother and the child are gone. She

221
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:03,000
calls him once he keeps calling,
where's baby Gabriel? And she says I've

222
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,600
given him away. I found a
family and he's been adopted. Well,

223
00:16:07,639 --> 00:16:11,720
we do know that she drove to
San Antonio. We do know that she

224
00:16:11,799 --> 00:16:15,000
stayed in a hotel there. It
happens to be in a spot where there's

225
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,399
black market adoptions, and she did
stay in the same hotel where people come

226
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,120
and they do these illegal adoptions,
and they don't pay through cash, they

227
00:16:23,159 --> 00:16:27,480
pay through a good. So she
shows up in Florida because now the police

228
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,639
are trying to find where this woman
is and the baby. When they find

229
00:16:30,639 --> 00:16:34,159
her in Florida, she's got a
ruby ring in her pocket, so that

230
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:40,039
would also possibly be a possibility that
she had done some some sort of exchange.

231
00:16:40,559 --> 00:16:45,320
She says vehemently. I met with
a couple in a park in San

232
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,080
Antonio. It was arranged through a
third party. I didn't ask the couple's

233
00:16:48,159 --> 00:16:52,919
name because if I had asked that
name, I would have gone back to

234
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,120
try maybe find him. So I
wanted it just to be like, please

235
00:16:56,159 --> 00:17:00,639
take him. I'm overwhelmed. And
there was this other woman that she'd friended.

236
00:17:00,759 --> 00:17:03,080
She probably, I think, had
something to do with it. But

237
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:04,440
she claims she has no idea what
happened to the baby. So it's all

238
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,519
these people that are like, we
have no idea what happened. My assessment

239
00:17:07,559 --> 00:17:11,960
from AFAR, using my degree in
armchair psychology, is that the baby was

240
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:18,200
illegally adopted and Gabriel is out there
somewhere. But there's there was speculation that

241
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,480
maybe she was so enraged by the
boyfriend who wouldn't give her the attention,

242
00:17:22,519 --> 00:17:26,559
and she also had attachment issues and
I think maybe addiction issues that she may

243
00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:27,559
have killed the baby. I don't
think she killed the baby. I think

244
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:32,160
Gabriel is with a family. He
has no idea he was illegally adopted.

245
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,920
I agree with you. I watched
that doc is fascinating. Yeah, I

246
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,519
think, yeah he is. I'm
hoping he is, like he just you

247
00:17:40,559 --> 00:17:45,519
know, living and thriving somewhere.
But yeah, should we take a quick

248
00:17:45,559 --> 00:17:49,440
break and then we'll come back and
we'll talk some more reality TV and docs.

249
00:17:51,039 --> 00:17:55,599
All right, let's talk about neutrifol. Listen, you know we all

250
00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,559
love neutrafol. I have been on
it for a long time, and I

251
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,960
love it because my hair I went
through a period where my hair was thinning

252
00:18:03,519 --> 00:18:08,279
and shedding a lot, and I
saw visibly thickness increase in my hair.

253
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:15,119
My hair growth was thicker and stronger. It's clinically effective formula. You know,

254
00:18:15,279 --> 00:18:18,720
as we get older, we go
through different changes, menopause, all

255
00:18:18,759 --> 00:18:22,440
that stuff that women have to go
through and men by the way, and

256
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,279
thinning is pretty normal as you age. But why you have to suffer when

257
00:18:26,319 --> 00:18:33,079
you got neutrafil Nutrifol is the number
one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement, with

258
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:37,079
over one million people seeing thicker,
stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding.

259
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,720
That's another thing we don't talk about. I noticed an improvement in a

260
00:18:41,799 --> 00:18:48,319
faster time than if I was just
taking regular vitamins. It's very effective and

261
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:53,640
everyone's got different root causes for hair
thinning. It's not a one size fits

262
00:18:53,680 --> 00:19:00,440
all approach to hair, so neutraphole
has a proactive approach and targets the root

263
00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:04,319
causes. So take the first step
to visibly thicker, healthier hair. For

264
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,279
a limited time, Neutrifold is offering
our listeners ten dollars off your first month

265
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,920
subscription and free shipping when you go
to neutrofold dot com and enter the promo

266
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:18,720
code f col find out why.
Over four thy five hundred healthcare professionals and

267
00:19:18,799 --> 00:19:25,680
hair stylists recommend neutrifol for healthier hair. Neutrofold dot com is spelled n ut

268
00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:33,079
r a fol dot com promo code
FCL. That's neutrofold dot com promo code

269
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:37,519
FCL. Hey, let's talk about
Thrive Cosmetics. First of all, I

270
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,519
love their cosmetics. I have several
different ones that I use. But it's

271
00:19:41,559 --> 00:19:45,160
got the word cause in the in
the title. For every product purchase,

272
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:52,599
Thrive Cosmetics donates products and products and
funds to help communities thrive. I mean,

273
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,880
you can't beat that. It's great. Not only that, but they

274
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,960
have great product And one of the
things I've been using a lot is that

275
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,960
highlighter stick. They have highlighter sticks
in all different shades and it's a creamy

276
00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,440
highlighter stick that you can use for
your eyes. You can use it as

277
00:20:07,519 --> 00:20:14,759
eyeshadow. I've been using their dark
brown. It's like a copper for for

278
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,279
eyeliner and it brightens up my eyes. And I also use the white one

279
00:20:18,559 --> 00:20:22,640
just in the corner of the eyes
to really brighten up the eye, make

280
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,279
the eye look open up. You
know, as we age, our eyes

281
00:20:25,319 --> 00:20:27,759
start to shrink. For God's sake, so I've been like using their highlighter

282
00:20:27,799 --> 00:20:33,279
sticks like crazy, which I love. It's a creamy they have sixteen different

283
00:20:33,319 --> 00:20:37,400
shades. It goes on, it's
smooth, it's full proof formula. It's

284
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,240
easy to apply. You can do
smoky eyes. They got metallic, all

285
00:20:41,279 --> 00:20:45,400
different colors. It's beautiful and of
course we all love the mascara. Thrive

286
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,559
Cosmetics is luxury beauty that gives back. Right now, you can get an

287
00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:55,039
exclusive twenty percent off your first order
at Thrivecosmetics dot com slash fcl. Well

288
00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:00,720
that's Thrive Cosmetics c A U S
E M E T. I see us

289
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:06,680
dot com slash fcll for twenty percent
off your first order. And we're back

290
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:12,839
with reality Reality Life with Kate Casey
and Patrick from Bad TV, Bad TV,

291
00:21:14,599 --> 00:21:18,599
And so we were talking about docs. Are we good with some docks?

292
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,519
Do you have any other? Pat
I have a couple because I like

293
00:21:22,599 --> 00:21:26,039
to stump Kate because she is the
expert. So I want to see if

294
00:21:26,039 --> 00:21:30,960
she's seen some and so I have
to go deep, like ten years back

295
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,839
to probably stump her. Oh this
is like a real test. Okay,

296
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,440
okay, this is an amazing documentary
and it's from ten years ago. It's

297
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,599
called Let the Fire Burn. Have
you seen that documentary. You've talked about

298
00:21:42,599 --> 00:21:45,880
it to me. I have not
watched it, but you taught you.

299
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,240
That is one thing that I feel
like has really stayed with you because you

300
00:21:49,279 --> 00:21:53,640
have brought it up several times.
It's something about because children were in jeopardy

301
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,200
in the dock and being a dad. Those are the things that really hit

302
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:02,359
home to me. So just a
little bit about it. So in nineteen

303
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,319
eighty five, a building, an
apartment building, had essentially been taken over

304
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:11,920
by a cult slash radical group called
Move And oh wait, this is about

305
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,640
Philadelphia. Yes, no, I
know. I'm from Philly, so you

306
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,200
know this story. It is a
heart heart wrenching story. This was when

307
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,279
this happened. When I tell you, every person in Philadelphia was sitting in

308
00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:27,480
front of their television watching this all
happen. This is like very painful for

309
00:22:27,519 --> 00:22:33,440
the people of Philly. Oh absolutely. So it's all archival footage sewn together

310
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,599
and it feels like it's just a
straight through narrative. It's done so well

311
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,720
it pulls at all your heart strings. Eventually, at the tail end of

312
00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:47,359
the movie, the city takes very
aggressive actions against this building that actually had

313
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,519
built on top of the apartment building
almost like a gun, like a tarret.

314
00:22:51,599 --> 00:22:52,440
Is that what you call it?
Like to kind of they have.

315
00:22:53,319 --> 00:22:59,359
Yeah, So they had a helicopter
fly over the building and drop literally drop

316
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,920
a bomb on it, and they
did it on live television. We watched

317
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,480
it on live television. The mayor
was famously quoted saying, let the fire

318
00:23:07,559 --> 00:23:14,200
burn. Yes, it's right,
so brave cops. You know, there's

319
00:23:14,319 --> 00:23:17,279
good and bad cops. There were
some good cops that day that are literally

320
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,680
running into the building while it's burning
and grabbing children out of it. Yeah,

321
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,039
highly recommend this stock. I don't
know where you can find it.

322
00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:26,480
It's probably it's definitely playing somewhere.
You can find it. Just look it

323
00:23:26,519 --> 00:23:30,359
up. But what's it called again, Let the fire burn? Wow?

324
00:23:30,599 --> 00:23:33,759
What year is this? Nineteen eighty
five? May thirteenth, nineteen eighty five.

325
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,079
Because everybody kind of looked at them
like these weird hippies. Yeah,

326
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,519
they were vegans and but they I
mean, they were very aggressive in the

327
00:23:41,519 --> 00:23:47,039
neighborhood. They had retrofitted a loud
speaker on the outside of the apartment and

328
00:23:47,079 --> 00:23:52,359
they would just shout things as people
there was guns in there. I mean

329
00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:55,920
there was a reason to go in
there, it's just how they went about

330
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,680
it. Well, it's like David
Koresh's Waco. Yeah, I mean,

331
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:04,279
like the sequence of events is what's
heartbreaking, right right, And just so

332
00:24:04,319 --> 00:24:07,720
the audience is aware, it's you
can stream it on Canopy whatever that is.

333
00:24:07,799 --> 00:24:11,720
Otherwise you'd have to rent it on
Apple TV, thank you. Okay,

334
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:18,799
Okay, anything else for docs because
I haven't been so I've watched all

335
00:24:18,839 --> 00:24:22,160
the docks pretty much that everybody's talking
about, but I like to hear about

336
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:27,119
these ones, okay overnight, I
don't think so, Okay, this one's

337
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:32,519
amazing. So there was a movie
that's kind of turned into a cult classic

338
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,480
over the years called Boone Docks Saints. I think they made a sequel.

339
00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:41,160
The director was this guy named Troy
Duffy, So he's from someone from the

340
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,920
East Coast, came out here,
wrote a script. Before you know what,

341
00:24:45,079 --> 00:24:48,920
Harvey Weinstein thinks it's the best script
that should be made. He buys

342
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,319
the bar where Troy works at and
says, now we can be co owners.

343
00:24:52,599 --> 00:24:56,759
And then somehow lets this guy who's
never directed a film basically say he's

344
00:24:56,759 --> 00:25:00,960
going to helm his own film called
Boone dock Staints. This part of the

345
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,519
Ben Affleck and Matt Damons that was
Project own Light, Project Greenlight. Yeah,

346
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,680
different, but it was kind of
around the same time. So this

347
00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:14,920
Troy guy could not be more obnoxious. He they give him a record deal

348
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,079
at the same time with his horrible
band with his friends. He blows through

349
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,160
all the money and it's being filmed
by this doc that they use the footage

350
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,000
by like the bass player and the
drummer of his band. He doesn't know

351
00:25:25,039 --> 00:25:29,759
that they're actually secretly thinking there's a
documentary here about a guy who's been given

352
00:25:29,839 --> 00:25:33,759
like the golden keys to Hollywood and
how he squanders it. It's I love

353
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,359
that hat this but he but was
he doing something for Weinstein? In retrospect

354
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,680
that there's like a kickback because why
in the world would Weinstein invest in somebody

355
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:47,960
with no professional background. Everyone was
fighting for the script. It was like

356
00:25:48,319 --> 00:25:49,960
during that period. I remember that
period of time, like in the late

357
00:25:51,079 --> 00:25:52,720
nineties when it was like this is
going to be and it was kind of

358
00:25:52,759 --> 00:25:56,599
like independent film had started long before
that, but it seemed like that was

359
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,680
the heyday, like who's going to
be the next Tarantino? And then once

360
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,240
you got dubbed that everybody was fighting
for you. And then you you know,

361
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:04,519
a bunch of movies got made during
that period. They were turned out

362
00:26:04,559 --> 00:26:08,079
to be horrible. You know,
why did this guy you know get to

363
00:26:08,319 --> 00:26:12,079
twenty million dollars for his horrible script? But anyway, Overnight, if you

364
00:26:12,279 --> 00:26:15,440
like to see someone get their come
up and after they've been given, you

365
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,799
know, an opportunity and squander it, Overnight's your doctor. Mike Aboka also

366
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,480
Boon Dock Saints is a great kind
of cult classic movie with Norman Ritis and

367
00:26:23,519 --> 00:26:26,240
Willem Dafoe are both in it.
But if you want to watch the doc

368
00:26:26,319 --> 00:26:30,599
overnight, you could stream on Roku
to be fubo. Otherwise you got to

369
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:37,640
runt it on Amazon, Apple TV. Okay, wow, did you ever

370
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:42,720
watch Holy Hell Love Holy I think
yes. I've seen so many docs about

371
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:51,119
churches, about church cults about it. Yeah, and so refresh my memory

372
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,839
about well what Holy Hell is the
one where his name was like Heimi,

373
00:26:55,039 --> 00:26:57,599
but he changed his name to Michelle
and he made everybody move to a commune

374
00:26:57,599 --> 00:27:03,599
in Texas and they all all kind
of worked together. But he'd have these

375
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,599
like minions that would cut up his
fruit into the shape of a star and

376
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:08,680
then he'd like yell at them and
throw it in the trash can. He

377
00:27:08,759 --> 00:27:15,119
was like very controlling. He wanted
everyone to be celibate, but apparently he

378
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:22,279
was assaulting male members. But the
biggest, weirdest part about it was they

379
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:27,200
had to spend congregants, had to
spend hours practicing ballet and put on a

380
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:33,920
performance of whatever. And of course
the cult leader is the lead of the

381
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,000
ballet, and there's no audience because
they all have to participate. So I

382
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,599
just that was like through me for
a loop. I was like, I've

383
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,960
known a lot of cults and study
them. Never that had to be forced

384
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,079
into ballet. Absolutely crazy, all
right. I have a similar dog.

385
00:27:47,839 --> 00:27:52,559
It's called The Source Family, where
the cult leader father and one Father Yod.

386
00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:56,400
He required his cult members to be
in his band. Yes, and

387
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,279
of course, because you're a cult
leader, it's you know, you have

388
00:28:00,319 --> 00:28:04,640
to have sex with members of your
os always, yeah, Father Yod.

389
00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:08,519
In the Source Family, it's an
interesting doc. It's not unlike Holy Hell,

390
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:15,200
except the members of that cult still
when they interview them, still have

391
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,599
kind words to say about Father Yod. The fun part of the doc too,

392
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,200
is how Father Yod is no longer
with us, and also where everybody

393
00:28:23,319 --> 00:28:29,519
ended up after being in that cult. Some are CEOs of major companies.

394
00:28:29,559 --> 00:28:33,640
Now, Wow, Father Yacht is
Father Yod and his restaurant because he had

395
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,000
a vegetarian restaurant in the sixties.
Where they all kind of met up is

396
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,400
where the Baja Cantena is on Ventura
Boulevard. Very nice. Yeah, okay,

397
00:28:41,519 --> 00:28:44,799
yeah, you can stream that one
for free on Amazon right now.

398
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,799
There you go. Wow, all
right, now, I'm going to hand

399
00:28:47,839 --> 00:28:51,960
it over to the expert. I'll
shut up. Well, let's talk a

400
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,039
little reality TV. Now. I
don't know you guys, and nobody's watching

401
00:28:56,119 --> 00:29:00,279
ninety Day Fiance stuff. I'm watching
Single Life. But there's eighteen verse of

402
00:29:00,319 --> 00:29:03,599
that show. I'm exhausted and a
lot of it. I feel like it

403
00:29:03,799 --> 00:29:08,119
depresses me because some of these people's
lives. I just think it's sad.

404
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,440
I can appreciate some of you know, our friends that make a damn good

405
00:29:11,519 --> 00:29:15,599
living out of recapping it, but
you you have to. You can't have

406
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,319
a full time job and keep up
with Matt Sharp's offerings. Yeah, I

407
00:29:18,359 --> 00:29:22,359
mean, I know there's a lot
of it, but there's this one.

408
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,359
There's this one woman on single Life, which she started off on the ninety

409
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:33,680
day Fiance. I'm talking about Natalie
with the blonde, curly hair, who

410
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,559
she's a star, is a movie
star, and everybody's in love with her.

411
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,680
And she walks down the street as
if she's got cameras following her and

412
00:29:42,119 --> 00:29:47,519
snapping her picture and fans adoring her
everywhere. I mean, she is so

413
00:29:47,799 --> 00:29:53,079
full of herself. It's it's delusional, and but I've always been so fascinating.

414
00:29:53,319 --> 00:29:56,839
I kind of like her at her
Ukrainian accent, you know, she's

415
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:03,599
she was. She she was married
to Mike from squeam Squeamish or something.

416
00:30:03,079 --> 00:30:07,279
Yeah, scream, she calls it
Washington wherever the fuck. Well, now

417
00:30:07,319 --> 00:30:14,000
she's out in Los Angeles with Josh, a softcore porn producer. Is that

418
00:30:14,039 --> 00:30:18,039
what that sounds right? That sounds
right, that's brand. So actually I

419
00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:21,680
have some inside intel, so he
actually is part of a whole scam business.

420
00:30:21,759 --> 00:30:25,680
It's that one of those modeling agencies
where you sign your teenage daughters up

421
00:30:26,119 --> 00:30:29,839
and it's you know, twenty five
hundred dollars and he's supposed to get you

422
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,240
connected with agents and then take the
photographs and all that he's in one of

423
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,920
those basises. Yeah, it means
shady is what it is. Shady and

424
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,920
he's dating her because he wants to
be on TV. Obviously he doesn't give

425
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,880
a shit. Aboh no, and
then none of those people want anything to

426
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,000
do with them outside of television.
Now. When I moved to La,

427
00:30:48,279 --> 00:30:51,640
I remember there was a girl that
went missing from the Century City Mall,

428
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,519
which was where my office was right
behind it, and it was he would

429
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,640
she was murdered because the guy was
pretending to be like a modeling scout.

430
00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:03,039
Oh I remember that photographer, didn't
he Yeah, he said he was a

431
00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:07,880
photographer. Yah. Yeah, and
I think he dumped her body off moholland

432
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,960
drive down. Yes, that's right, I remember that too. Yeah,

433
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,400
it's scary. Modeling is a scary
business. Well I don't know now,

434
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:22,279
but it's because there's no real agencies
to protect models. Like actors, there's

435
00:31:22,359 --> 00:31:26,720
SAG, there's AFTRA, you know, for modeling, there's no there's no

436
00:31:26,359 --> 00:31:30,680
agencies for protection you know. Well, think anybody could be and also just

437
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:36,200
that power dynamic. There was the
Abercrombie and Fitch doc where these young male

438
00:31:36,319 --> 00:31:41,759
models were being had sex with the
photographer and also some of the executives there.

439
00:31:41,839 --> 00:31:45,319
Yeah, it's just right, yeah
yeah. So for reality TV,

440
00:31:47,119 --> 00:31:51,400
h what are you watching, Kate? I mean, what's just your okay?

441
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,000
So lately I've been obsessed with Real
Houses of Salt Lake City. And

442
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,839
here's why. If no one has
been watching, if you haven't been watching,

443
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,480
here's why you should care. Because
for the first in Real Housewives franchise

444
00:32:00,519 --> 00:32:04,160
history, and lord knows I've been
watching the show since nineteen sixty two,

445
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,160
that it was inevitable to happen,
there's a cast member who would In the

446
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,400
beginning of the season, You're like, how does this make sense? They

447
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,839
don't have money, their lives,
their life does not intersect with any of

448
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:20,559
these women, with the exception that
a woman who had been a cast member

449
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:27,839
had committed telemarketing fraud and was sent
to prison. And the only connection that

450
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,079
this woman, this new cast member
has to them is that Jen who's no

451
00:32:31,119 --> 00:32:36,200
longer on the show. She was
her unpaid assistant for a short period of

452
00:32:36,279 --> 00:32:39,680
time, and she claims to have
given federal authorities like tipping them off,

453
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:44,319
which I believe now in retrospect,
is probably bullshit. So that was the

454
00:32:44,319 --> 00:32:46,240
only connection, and at that I
was like, so you were an unpaid

455
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,599
assistant for somebody who's not even on
the show anymore. Well, I think

456
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,880
what happened was she used that as
currency to get her foot in the door,

457
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:58,160
probably with producers in the network,
is that Jen was going off to

458
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,359
prison. Viewers were very interested in
that story, and I think at that

459
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,839
moment they thought, Okay, well, this is a way to kind of

460
00:33:04,359 --> 00:33:07,319
like maybe keep that conversation about what
this woman did in order to be sent

461
00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:13,640
to prison. So what happened was
that this woman was actually a troll.

462
00:33:13,799 --> 00:33:16,920
She was so obsessed with the show
from the very beginning, would like drive

463
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:22,839
past their houses. She saw working
for Jen Shaw as an opportunity for herself

464
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,079
to get in the door. And
while she was working for Jen in an

465
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:30,000
unpaid assistant position, she was getting
information on each of the housewives, because

466
00:33:30,039 --> 00:33:32,119
Jen's the kind of person she'd be. You know, she would get all

467
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,440
the information on you and then use
it against you at a later date.

468
00:33:36,039 --> 00:33:39,960
So she gets her foot in the
door to the Housewives. They film the

469
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,640
whole season. People are trying to
get to know her. She's giving the

470
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:49,519
bullshit story about our mom's like a
horrible mother that she Oh, she also

471
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:55,079
had an affair with her brother in
law for eighteen months. She's telling you

472
00:33:55,119 --> 00:34:00,160
all these stories. The viewing public
is pretty much like, Wow, this

473
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,599
woman's captivating. From the beginning,
it was like she's lying. There's something

474
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:07,160
off here. While you cut to
the end of the season and you find

475
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,000
out that she had been at the
helm of this troll account, not a

476
00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:14,440
very successful troll account, but had
been posting things about all of the cast

477
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:19,400
members. She has since deleted anything
having to do with anyone, with the

478
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,199
exception of Jen, because of course
she was hired to be on the show,

479
00:34:22,079 --> 00:34:24,079
so she's trying to cover her tracks
a little bit. But by the

480
00:34:24,119 --> 00:34:27,880
end of it, one of the
cast members figures it all out, and

481
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,079
it's like a big, big little
eyes kind of moment where they're at the

482
00:34:31,079 --> 00:34:36,639
beach on a trip and the ogs
get together and they're like, this woman

483
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,199
that we have had to invest in
because of course she's in a cast member

484
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:45,519
fourth wall, she's actually the person
at the helm of this troll account,

485
00:34:45,519 --> 00:34:47,400
and then they're all like, what
do you mean. So now when you

486
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:52,159
watch the reunion, you get to
see like a kind of unravel of the

487
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:57,800
degree to which she was trolling them. I think it's horrible for the future

488
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,599
for housewives. I think a lot
of you are like amped up by it,

489
00:35:01,039 --> 00:35:05,880
but I think it's it's gonna make
it hard to kind of first of

490
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,119
all, she can't be on the
show ever again. But also I think

491
00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:12,199
it's gonna make people far less trusting
of one another. And they're kind of

492
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:17,840
untrusting already, but like even worse. And also she basically is like laughing

493
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:22,519
at everybody like I got on the
show, like suck it, yes,

494
00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:25,119
and that kind of like zero fox, like she just doesn't give a shit

495
00:35:25,519 --> 00:35:30,639
and she does anything to lose.
I just all you gotta do is I

496
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,840
I didn't want I watched. I
know who the people are, but I've

497
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:37,159
never I didn't watch this season and
then't need to. I think you did

498
00:35:37,199 --> 00:35:39,679
the right thing by just jumping in
watching the finale episode. Yeah, and

499
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:45,199
that's and then I watched the the
reunion. I think there's only one.

500
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:46,719
That's all you needed. Yeah,
you got the whole thing. Yeah.

501
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,880
Oh, so that's all you have
to do. And it is filled with

502
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,079
drama, like I didn't believe it
was. So this is her account was

503
00:35:53,159 --> 00:35:59,199
reality votees or somethontees. Yeah,
but when you looked on it, I

504
00:35:59,199 --> 00:36:01,719
mean I found about this about a
week and a half before the finale,

505
00:36:02,079 --> 00:36:05,519
so I looked on it. The
account, first of all, still exists,

506
00:36:05,519 --> 00:36:07,159
which is weird to me, Like, wouldn't she delete it? Wouldn't

507
00:36:07,159 --> 00:36:13,079
she be so embarrassed? No,
she didn't delete it because she's emboldened by

508
00:36:13,159 --> 00:36:15,960
this now because they're lunatics that are
like, you're an icon, You're a

509
00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:19,880
legend, You're in the moment,
like all of this, and she is

510
00:36:20,039 --> 00:36:22,960
thinking that she is the biggest superstar
of the world, although I think that

511
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,559
as the reunion parts go on,
people are like, I think I've had

512
00:36:25,639 --> 00:36:30,280
enough. I think I've had enough. Well, she she's like one of

513
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:35,880
those people who will destroy anyone's life
and has no scruples. Unfortunately with reality

514
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,880
TV, though we don't, we
reward bad behavior. So she's just made

515
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:45,440
sure she'll be on the next seasons
of Villains or whatever for the next Versus

516
00:36:45,599 --> 00:36:50,320
All Stars. But you know what
I what I'm waiting for and what I

517
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,679
really want to know from the reunion
is at at what rate were the women

518
00:36:54,199 --> 00:37:00,000
who were all all the other cast
members communicating with the troll account, because

519
00:37:00,159 --> 00:37:04,280
while now they're kind of like we've
been violated, we're so hurt. I

520
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,920
believe that the problem that we're happening
with a lot of these Housewives franchises is

521
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:13,480
that the cast members are trying to
play a side game, like a parasocial

522
00:37:13,519 --> 00:37:17,960
game, where they try to sabotage
one another. And I think that that's

523
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,280
going to be revealed, and I
think it's going to make it very hard

524
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,800
for people to trust the process of
the Housewives, which we've experienced in the

525
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,000
past, Like these are complicated women. This is how their lives intersect,

526
00:37:30,079 --> 00:37:34,159
This is like a window into their
life. Now it seems just so overtly

527
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,039
survivor ish that I think it's I
think the people of Bravo are probably like,

528
00:37:38,079 --> 00:37:40,960
we're fucked. Wow. Interesting.
By the way, did you know

529
00:37:42,039 --> 00:37:45,480
Lynette was being vetted to be on
Real House We didn't know that. Yeah

530
00:37:45,639 --> 00:37:49,760
you did? Did? How come
you didn't do it? I mean now,

531
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,480
not for me. I'm very like
being on this podcast now, I'm

532
00:37:53,519 --> 00:37:58,280
just kidding. I don't know.
Now, it just seemed it was well,

533
00:37:58,679 --> 00:38:01,039
first of all, I'm not a
house that doesn't matter. You know

534
00:38:01,119 --> 00:38:05,119
that everybody in Beverly Hills lives in
Encino. Yeah, I don't know.

535
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,280
I just it was it's too like
it's too much of privacy, you know,

536
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:14,280
exposed. Just I just don't.
Here's what I don't understand about casting

537
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:22,400
in a metropolitan city where you have
wealth and friend groups, why does Bravos

538
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:28,079
struggle to get five women that inter
sect with one another and have those real

539
00:38:28,119 --> 00:38:32,079
relationships. Now on the other end, I hate New Jersey because they basically

540
00:38:32,119 --> 00:38:36,280
have it circled around a family.
Well not so much anymore. Yeah,

541
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,280
and I don't. I don't like
that dynamic. But I do like when

542
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,960
they know each other, and it's
always weird to me when they force the

543
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,480
relationships. I kind of fell off
a little bit. I forget what season

544
00:38:45,519 --> 00:38:51,039
it was, but when Gina on
Orange County came on, Kate's probably friends

545
00:38:51,039 --> 00:38:52,960
with her. Yeah, No,
I'm not. I'm not. I think

546
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,000
that the problem is that and I
experience. I live in Orange County,

547
00:38:57,119 --> 00:39:02,760
and I I into them some I
should say some of them, because most

548
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,039
of them they don't actually live near
each other. Their lives do not intersect.

549
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:08,400
So the problem that I've had with
Orange County for a long time is

550
00:39:08,559 --> 00:39:12,880
especially living here is that it doesn't
tell the accurate story of Orange County.

551
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:17,559
Orange County is like the coastal cities
of Laguna, Newport, Coasta, Mesa,

552
00:39:17,599 --> 00:39:22,960
Huntington Beach. It's a very weird
thing where if you're an outsider,

553
00:39:22,119 --> 00:39:25,280
you're not really accepted. Like everybody
went to the same high school. They

554
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,920
went to USC, they were in
fraternity together, they work in packs,

555
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:31,800
like it's a very normal thing in
Orange County where I live. To go.

556
00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:35,880
Oh, I went on a trip
to Palm Springs with fourteen other couples

557
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,000
and we had matching trucker hats that
said Mermaid on them. Like it's a

558
00:39:39,079 --> 00:39:44,679
pack mentality and it's near impossible to
infiltrate as an outsider. That to me

559
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,360
is a very specific Orange County story. They don't tell it. They have

560
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:52,239
had the same people for so long
that when I talk to women here,

561
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,599
even if they said to me,
that sounds like something I'd like to do.

562
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:59,119
However, I don't want to be
on a show with x X like

563
00:39:59,159 --> 00:40:01,320
these people because I have nothing in
common with them. I would want to

564
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,960
be on a show with my friends. So then I go to castiy and

565
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,559
I'll say, okay, like this
past season, I said, there are

566
00:40:07,559 --> 00:40:10,719
two women who live in town who
are so dynamic. They have the lifestyle,

567
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:15,519
the personalities, and they didn't even
look at them. They didn't even

568
00:40:15,559 --> 00:40:20,719
look at them. They are trying
to find people that fit a certain It's

569
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:22,840
like they have in their mind what
that persona is and they look to try

570
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:28,239
to fit it and at the expense
of like it doesn't even if that person

571
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,840
has nothing to do with the others. You have to have people that their

572
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:35,960
lives intersect, because that's when real
storytelling happens. If you have people that

573
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,559
are not connected at all, it's
like just hiring actors, right, Yeah,

574
00:40:38,559 --> 00:40:42,280
it's like that. I thought they
learned a little bit early on when

575
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,639
they have someone like Carlton On who
her entire storyline was going to sex toy

576
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:50,079
stores, right, yeah, remember
her? I remember because I think at

577
00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:52,360
the time they were like, oh, she's kind of like avant garde,

578
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:57,239
like she's going to push the envelope, which I mean, yes, But

579
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:01,159
you know what would be more interesting
if after three seasons you find out that,

580
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:06,800
like somebody is married and they have
like there is like actually a closet

581
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:08,679
swinger, but they go to church
every Sunday and their kids go to Christian

582
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:14,880
school. Like that is more compelling
because you've invested in someone's personal story,

583
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:19,199
and then you want to see how
the others react to this realization that their

584
00:41:19,199 --> 00:41:22,440
friend they thought they knew is living
a completely different life. That is more

585
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:29,239
interesting and better storytelling them taking plucking
someone from obscurity who has always desired to

586
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,320
be a television star and throwing them
into, you know, a show.

587
00:41:32,519 --> 00:41:36,800
It makes no sense. Yeah,
I agree. Did did you watch the

588
00:41:37,039 --> 00:41:39,920
you guys watch the New York Housewives? I did? Yeah, it's good.

589
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:45,760
Yeah it was nothing happened, but
it's that's okay. Yeah, nothing

590
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,039
happened, but I don't know.
My eyes were glued that women were so

591
00:41:49,079 --> 00:41:52,280
beautiful and their lives I thought their
lives were in They're very beautiful, but

592
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,400
boring. The one to watch of
all the Real Housewives right now is the

593
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:59,440
Real Housewives of Miami. Because they're
all actually friends. They'd have a backstory,

594
00:41:59,559 --> 00:42:02,880
right They all are far more open
about their lives. One is in

595
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,519
the midst of a divorce when she
married this disgusting, skeezy plastic surgeon,

596
00:42:08,119 --> 00:42:13,599
and that story unravels. There are
some moments where you're like, well,

597
00:42:13,599 --> 00:42:15,880
I can see why you divorced her, Like you're going back and forth,

598
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:20,480
back and forth. You have another
one who's going through cancer treatments, which

599
00:42:20,639 --> 00:42:23,159
you know, it's unbelievable to me
that after all these seasons, less women

600
00:42:23,199 --> 00:42:28,119
have spoken about their health issues,
which is a very typical thing of a

601
00:42:28,159 --> 00:42:31,559
women of a certain age. You
have another woman who is trying to have

602
00:42:31,599 --> 00:42:36,079
a baby. You have another one
who's married to Martina and Abertilova, and

603
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,159
that alone, like there's every person
on that show has an interesting story.

604
00:42:40,639 --> 00:42:45,880
Alexia Etcheveria this is her third marriage. One of her husbands was like the

605
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:51,440
cocaine king of Miami, and she's
a Cuban woman. And then you get

606
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,360
to watch like the intricacies of the
little nuances of like what it's like to

607
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:59,960
be a Cuban mother. And the
city's beautiful, their homes are unbelievable,

608
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,039
their outfits are wild. But they're
all friends and they care about each other.

609
00:43:05,039 --> 00:43:07,760
And the most specific example of that
is when Lisa, the one I

610
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,519
mentioned, is going through a divorce, they're on a trip and she says,

611
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,639
I've found out Lenny is having an
affair, and they all scream like

612
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:23,400
animals in the wild burstings that happen
on another franchise, because the other one

613
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,000
would be like, well yeah,
because you know, because you're a jerk.

614
00:43:27,079 --> 00:43:30,400
Of course, those women like they
rise up, they're like I will

615
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:34,639
cut somebody and like, but that's
women, Like, that's how women are.

616
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:38,039
They rally around. That's true.
Let's take a quick break and we'll

617
00:43:38,079 --> 00:43:43,960
talk some more reality TV. This
episode of for Crying Out Loud is sponsored

618
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:49,199
by Better Help. Listen. Everybody, you could use therapy. We've all

619
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:53,559
benefited for from therapy. My kids
have been in therapy. I am a

620
00:43:53,559 --> 00:43:59,639
big proponent of therapy, and Better
Help makes it easy because you don't it's

621
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,159
all online. You don't have to
fight traffic, you don't have to sit

622
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:07,039
awkward in a waiting room, and
you can just go online. You fill

623
00:44:07,079 --> 00:44:14,000
out a quick survey and they help
match you with the therapist that fits your

624
00:44:14,039 --> 00:44:16,760
needs. And also if you don't
like that therapist, then you can,

625
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:21,760
you know, ask for another one. And they're flexible. They're designed to

626
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,480
be convenient, flexible, and suited
to your schedule. So help yourself or

627
00:44:25,519 --> 00:44:29,840
help your kids. There's no better
way now than to do it through better

628
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:36,079
help celebrate the progress you've already made. Visit Betterhelp dot com slash fcl today

629
00:44:36,119 --> 00:44:39,320
to get ten percent off your first
month. That's better help h e LP

630
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:47,480
dot com slash fcol And we're back. So we were gonna talk about Paris

631
00:44:47,519 --> 00:44:53,159
Hilton. I didn't give two shits
about Paris Hilton twenty four hours ago,

632
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:57,079
but then when you brought it up
in the email, I was like,

633
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,320
you know what, I see it
Paris and Love. I never click on

634
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:06,079
it because I just think it's just
Paris and a floridare oh right? So

635
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,280
I started watching it and now it's
like I can't wait to get back home

636
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:14,840
to watch finish watching jealous that you
have that feeling right now? Yes,

637
00:45:15,119 --> 00:45:17,480
it's And I just jumped in because
I was like, okay, I'm going

638
00:45:17,559 --> 00:45:21,719
to start with season let me just
see what goes on season two. Like

639
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:23,400
I know the first season is a
lot about the wedding, but I want

640
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:28,519
to see, like the baby baking
process, what hapened like because I didn't

641
00:45:28,559 --> 00:45:32,760
remember her being pregnant. Now I
know why, you know, So it's

642
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:38,079
it is fascinating. The most fascinating
part is her mother. Oh yes,

643
00:45:38,159 --> 00:45:44,400
how so bless you, Kaylin,
how she is so uh, I mean

644
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:49,800
beyond narcissistic, like this wedding's my
wedding too, you know, and the

645
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,159
fact it's just there's a lot going
on. So I'm going to start from

646
00:45:53,159 --> 00:45:57,679
the beginning of season one and work
my way through. But I have a

647
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,119
question. How how many episodes in
a season. I think they're about maybe

648
00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:05,079
seven or eight. But I want
to tell you this, You're going to

649
00:46:05,159 --> 00:46:07,639
run through it. And this is
a great show for couples to watch too,

650
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:13,639
because I think that the men will
be perplexed by the husband, the

651
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:17,679
women are going to be perplexed by
her relationship with her mother and sister,

652
00:46:19,599 --> 00:46:23,440
and then Paris's relationship with herself.
There are so many layers to it it

653
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,840
could be like a college course.
And season one, when you watch it,

654
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,760
you're sort of trying to figure out
why she is with this guy,

655
00:46:32,079 --> 00:46:37,280
Carter, who seems to be a
super fan, and the way he talks

656
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,239
to her sometimes is very unsettling.
It's almost like he talks to her like

657
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:44,679
a child. He'll say things like
I'm just so proud of you, like

658
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,840
I'm married, I've memory my husband
to say so. And also he was

659
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:52,199
a Bridezilla. So there's that.
The thing you have to look for is

660
00:46:52,199 --> 00:46:55,280
the episode in season one wait for
it and will you will treasure this episode

661
00:46:55,320 --> 00:47:00,400
when she goes back to Michigan to
meet his family, because you know,

662
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:04,519
and there's a moment where you're like, Okay, she thinks they're batshit crazy,

663
00:47:04,679 --> 00:47:07,920
but she's pretending, And then she
calls her sister to kind of laugh

664
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:09,559
about it. Who hasn't done that
when they met their in laws, where

665
00:47:09,559 --> 00:47:12,679
you're like, I got to call
somebody and go, oh my god,

666
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,239
these weirdos. So some of it's
relatable that way, but then you're also

667
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:21,400
looking through the lens of like I
believe we're all cultural anthrobologists. You're looking

668
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:27,159
through the lens of this. His
family is trying so hard to equally present

669
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,920
themselves as a normal family, and
it's almost like they're trying to act like

670
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:35,079
they're the Hiltons of the Midwest,
and he's trying to convince her like we

671
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,400
should have a vacation home here in
Traverse City, and she's like okay,

672
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:42,280
like you're kidding, right, Like
I'm like parasolant. Then you get to

673
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,920
season two, and well, I
should also note there's relatable things, but

674
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,159
then she's so unrelatable because you know, she grew up with Nanni's and there's

675
00:47:50,199 --> 00:47:52,199
all this other stuff where you're like, you've got to remind yourself constantly,

676
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:59,159
like why would we expect anything other
than craziness. So season two begins with

677
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:05,320
finding out that was a secret surrogacy
and unpacking why did she keep that a

678
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:09,760
secret, unpacking why it's so difficult
for her to kind of seem to get

679
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:15,599
like the hang, the swing of
being a parent, her mother's obvious concern

680
00:48:15,679 --> 00:48:19,559
that this is something that she's not
going to take seriously because I think she's

681
00:48:19,559 --> 00:48:22,239
had a series of animals that disappear
all the time, moving from one thing

682
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:27,039
to the next. There's so many
layers to it. I mean, you

683
00:48:27,039 --> 00:48:30,239
could sit for fifteen hours and talk
about it and everybody picks something different from

684
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:34,760
it. It's wildly entertaining. So
O, Kate, the reason I didn't

685
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,880
jump on this, and this could
be how we started this podcast with coming

686
00:48:39,119 --> 00:48:45,239
a little judgment for me because I'd
seen in news stories that Paris's husband had

687
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:50,039
when he was courting her. He
had that's correct, a baby out of

688
00:48:51,119 --> 00:48:54,119
a woman or a girlfriend was pregnant
with his first baby, really, and

689
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:59,199
he was refusing to acknowledge it.
You know he has that's another layer,

690
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,960
but you get but when you go
through season one, you're like, that

691
00:49:04,079 --> 00:49:07,440
to me is like a true crime
doc too, because I'm going, why

692
00:49:07,679 --> 00:49:12,039
is he completely ignoring I think it's
because he has been a super fan of

693
00:49:12,079 --> 00:49:15,519
paris Is for so long, and
now when that information pops up, you

694
00:49:15,599 --> 00:49:22,320
think he's doing everything he can to
convince him her to marry him because he

695
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,480
wants to. Not only first of
all, my friend Chris said it best.

696
00:49:24,519 --> 00:49:30,079
I think they're too a sexual,
Like they're asexual in a committed relationship,

697
00:49:30,119 --> 00:49:34,639
like they're both fine with that.
Oh interesting, But I think he's

698
00:49:34,679 --> 00:49:38,440
so obsessed with her almost like and
I don't even know if it's an accessory.

699
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:43,000
It's like weird. By season two, they're business partners in a production

700
00:49:43,079 --> 00:49:45,320
company, and you're like, because
season one, she's like, oh,

701
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:49,079
he's a CEO, he has his
own business, and I'm like, I'm

702
00:49:49,119 --> 00:49:52,360
not buying what you're trying to sell
me. And so you're also watching going

703
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:58,480
she was just vamboozled. So and
the way he talks to her is so

704
00:49:58,559 --> 00:50:00,920
weird. He by the way he
did the whole wedding. He was the

705
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:06,480
Bridezilla. Season two, you open
with the surrogacy and she's like, yeah,

706
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:08,800
Carver called me, and I guess
we're gonna have a baby in forty

707
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:15,239
eight hours, Like she has not
been seemingly part of the entire process.

708
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,639
And then she doesn't like her sister
comes over. It had been like a

709
00:50:17,679 --> 00:50:22,800
month or two before she had even
changed a diaper. The nanny that's come.

710
00:50:22,639 --> 00:50:25,960
You get the sense like she's with
the baby in the room all day

711
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,320
long, Like it's wild. This
is compelling, but I have to tell

712
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:35,679
you, as you describe it,
they seem like two complete assholes. Yeah.

713
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:43,039
I think there's more humanity to her, and I have tremendously I have

714
00:50:43,199 --> 00:50:50,719
empathy for two reasons. One,
she has horrible, horribly debilitating ADHD.

715
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:52,320
I mean, you know, when
there's a spectrum maybe ADHD. I think

716
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,360
she is like all the way at
the other end, I say, this

717
00:50:55,440 --> 00:51:00,480
is a child has a child with
ADHD. And I think she has lacks

718
00:51:00,559 --> 00:51:06,760
some skills to sort of work with
that. Yes, it's called disciplin Yeah,

719
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,199
I mean it's none. So there's
that. And then you also when

720
00:51:09,199 --> 00:51:13,280
you get to see the backstory of
like what happened to her. I believe

721
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,800
she's been a trauma survivor for a
very long time. I think it may

722
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:20,920
have, even my assessment, may
have predated her going to that wilderness camp

723
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,639
that her parents sent her to.
So then you have enormous empathy for her

724
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:30,119
because you realize she was born into
a situation where her needs were not met,

725
00:51:30,519 --> 00:51:35,719
especially since like she was probably taking
care of nanny's and she was overlooked,

726
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,840
maybe considered dumb because at the time
people didn't really understand adhd. She

727
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:44,960
probably wasn't obviously academic, which can
spiral sometimes into addiction issues. I think

728
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:49,800
that her parents did not give her
the attention she needed, and I think

729
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,400
that they were also completely overwhelmed.
So the more you kind of pick at

730
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:54,880
it, you kind of have the
empathy for all the people involved. The

731
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:59,800
only person I don't really have empathy
for is I haven't figured it out Carter,

732
00:52:00,079 --> 00:52:01,440
because I don't like the way he
talks to her, Especially if you

733
00:52:01,599 --> 00:52:07,199
have a romantic partner and you know
they've been through significant trauma, you don't

734
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:10,280
need to talk to them like they're
your child. Like he like talks down

735
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:15,360
her so much A bothers me.
So in the end, you like Paris

736
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:20,960
because, especially a season two goes
on, you see how hard it is

737
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,519
for her to communicate with a mother, and you see how Kathy can be

738
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:29,320
so dismissive. But then then you
go to, Okay, what was Kathy's

739
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:30,719
life like? Right? And she
does kind of allude to it, and

740
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:37,079
they're like this is some serious intergenerational
site, Like like why did they not

741
00:52:37,199 --> 00:52:39,880
go to me as a therapist even
though I'm not a therapist, Like I

742
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:44,480
can help these people? Like what
the fuck is up with Kathy Hilton?

743
00:52:44,519 --> 00:52:49,400
Like she's injecting her stomach with you
know, for IVF, you know,

744
00:52:49,559 --> 00:52:53,519
to get her her probably right,
So she's Paris Is injecting and her mom's

745
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:57,800
just like she doesn't even ask her
what's going on, Like, oh,

746
00:52:57,840 --> 00:52:59,519
well she does. At first she
goes, oh, what are you doing?

747
00:52:59,599 --> 00:53:00,760
She's like, I'm doing my IVF
thing, and then she just is

748
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:04,760
like, have you seen my new
purse? You know? I think I

749
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:08,239
think the baby voice that Paris uses
is yes, and she does. They're

750
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:13,480
like two things. For I think
that sexual abuse trauma survivors sometimes do that

751
00:53:13,519 --> 00:53:15,719
they go back to the voice of
the of the time where they were traumatized.

752
00:53:16,639 --> 00:53:21,079
But I also think it's her manipulative
tactic to get her mom's attention.

753
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,400
And that makes me sad. Yeah, it makes me sad too. What's

754
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:29,320
his deal? Carter? Where did
what was he before? How did they

755
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,320
meet? And what did he?
What was he? She says through friends?

756
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:35,840
But and it's like he's it,
He's a venture capital. But then

757
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,679
I'm like, wait, what that's
the part that I need someone to do

758
00:53:38,679 --> 00:53:43,639
documentary on, right, Who is
this? Carter? I'm just worried.

759
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:45,280
I f i'd The more that you
watch this, your heart goes out to

760
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,920
Paris. You want happiness for her, even though she's she's going to be

761
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:52,320
like the person you know who's batshit
bananas and you can't relate to their life

762
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,639
at all. But yet you care
about her and you want the best for

763
00:53:54,679 --> 00:54:00,480
her, and I'm just worried that
maybe that's not the one for her.

764
00:54:01,159 --> 00:54:05,519
Doesn't sound like it. Hey,
I'm not sure how much time we have

765
00:54:05,599 --> 00:54:08,840
left, but this is five minutes. Do you mind if we I want

766
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,639
to talk about Hell Camp. Is
that what it's called? Oh yeah,

767
00:54:12,679 --> 00:54:15,840
it's called hell Camp. So well, that's where she went to a similar

768
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:19,119
hell camp. This one is a
Netflix document series about a place called the

769
00:54:19,199 --> 00:54:24,079
Challenger Foundation and it was run by
a guy who was diabolical too. I

770
00:54:24,119 --> 00:54:29,119
know I've used that word several times, but that is a window into the

771
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:36,280
wilderness therapies of the eighties and nineties
and how children who were seemingly out of

772
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,840
control, usually from wealthy families,
would be sent into the wilderness, and

773
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:44,239
sort of a window into how those
operated and the aftermath of it. Kay

774
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:47,840
crazy, sorry, Caitlyn. Crazy
story. So I graduate college, I

775
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:52,239
come down to Los Angeles to visit
to possibly live here, and my friend

776
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:57,559
Leslie from college, her family allows
me to stay with them for a few

777
00:54:57,639 --> 00:55:00,760
days. Her and I went down
for a beach tread down on Hunts and

778
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:06,519
Beach, and I just remembered her
sharing this story. She came from a

779
00:55:06,519 --> 00:55:10,760
wealthy family, she was and I
didn't understand it at all. She talked

780
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:15,559
about being kidnapped in the middle of
the night and we were drinking while she

781
00:55:15,599 --> 00:55:20,559
was telling me this story and how
she'd been assaulted at this camp, and

782
00:55:20,599 --> 00:55:22,840
all what I grabbed onto at the
time, and this is twenty five years

783
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:28,119
ago, was the assault and we
were talking about that. I completely did

784
00:55:28,159 --> 00:55:30,800
not pay attention to the idea that
she went to one of these camps.

785
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:37,039
Wow, And that didn't come to
me until years later when ABC had a

786
00:55:37,119 --> 00:55:43,719
show about these camps called Brat Camp
and it ran for one season. And

787
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,000
yet you can go back and check
that out too. Crazy. They basically

788
00:55:46,519 --> 00:55:51,039
kidnapped these kids in the middle of
the night from all walks of life and

789
00:55:51,079 --> 00:55:53,480
then bring them out to the desert. I think this series Night in two

790
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:58,440
thousand and four was in Arizona and
they made them walk in camp for like

791
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,360
three months and then they supposed to
be fixed at the end of this.

792
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:06,280
But anyway, sorry, but yes, Paris went to that and that's why.

793
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,960
Yeah, no, that's crazy.
I did see that documentary Hell Camp

794
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:15,039
and well, and I think she
was like drugged and she was put into

795
00:56:15,119 --> 00:56:20,239
solitary confinement. She was assaulted,
and that's why when you are armed with

796
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:27,760
that information and then you watch this
show, then you find yourself, especially

797
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:31,519
as a mom of five, going
why didn't someone help her more as a

798
00:56:31,599 --> 00:56:37,360
child? Why? And here she
is this like beloved person all over the

799
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:40,199
world. I mean, people go
insane for her and she I think she

800
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,400
goes out into the world and she
wants it so she wants to be loved

801
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:47,280
so badly she has sought it in
the arms of strangers, because even as

802
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,880
an adult, I don't think her
parents give it to her. Well,

803
00:56:51,519 --> 00:56:54,280
talking about still the Hiltons, they
it seemed like they're the kind of parents

804
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:58,599
that just thought and were probably convinced
they could just buy their way out of

805
00:56:58,679 --> 00:57:01,159
what they perceived as a problem when
she was a teenager, sending her to

806
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:06,840
that camp and just you know,
maybe I think they were overwhelmed. I

807
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:09,280
think they were overwhelmed because she was
young and sneaking out of the house and

808
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:13,280
all of this stuff. But that
was probably a byproduct of some sort of

809
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,519
sexual assault, maybe even prior to
the Utah camp. But again you go

810
00:57:16,599 --> 00:57:20,480
back to like what happened to Kathy. The weirdest thing too, is when

811
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,239
she's keeping it the baby, It
was like, I don't know, maybe

812
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:27,719
ten days before Kathy meets the baby
for the first time. So then she

813
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:29,719
goes, well, we have to
go over to the house so he can

814
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:34,039
meet dad. So they bring the
baby in and she calls down for Rick

815
00:57:34,119 --> 00:57:37,280
Hilton to come down, and Rick
comes in and he's a little frail,

816
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:42,239
but he goes, oh, like
who's this and Kathy's like, it's your

817
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:46,119
grandson and he's like huh and Paris
is like, yes, you know this

818
00:57:46,159 --> 00:57:50,920
is your you know, Phoenix,
Baron Hilton blah blah blah, and he's

819
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:52,480
like, oh okay, and then
it's like five and Sentter he goes,

820
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,440
Kathy, we gotta go. We've
got you know, they were going off

821
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,400
to a party, and she's like, okay, we got to go by.

822
00:57:58,559 --> 00:58:04,000
I'm like, if you child had
a baby in secret and this is

823
00:58:04,039 --> 00:58:07,280
the first time you've met the baby, are you gonna go to a dinner

824
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:10,639
party? Rights? It was like
maddening and I'm like, are you kid?

825
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:15,599
But then I go that must have
been her life, Like Something's like

826
00:58:15,639 --> 00:58:19,199
she's in that her bedroom, her
mom or dad walk past, and she

827
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,320
deeply wants to just talk to them
about how she's feeling or what's going on,

828
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:25,639
and they're like gotta go. Paula
Abdul's doing this thing over a gang

829
00:58:25,679 --> 00:58:30,519
puck and You're like, oh god, this is so dark, right,

830
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:34,239
yeah, it's just it is.
It's really fascinating. It sold me.

831
00:58:34,639 --> 00:58:37,519
I'm gonna say I no, no, I am telling you you're gonna love

832
00:58:37,559 --> 00:58:39,360
it. Yeah, well, I
feel like I go out into the world

833
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:43,320
and people are like, Kate,
here's in love. I know. I'm

834
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:45,440
like, I know, and then
I have to like physically restrain myself because

835
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:50,000
I want to stay for fourteen hours
and dissect it. Well, this has

836
00:58:50,039 --> 00:58:52,199
been so much fun. You guys, thank you so much for stepping up

837
00:58:52,239 --> 00:58:58,320
and helping me out, helping us
out today. And Kate Kasey your your

838
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:02,840
podcast drops Reality So I have six
episodes a week. So every Monday I'll

839
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:07,079
tell you what to watch. Tuesday
through Friday, I do interviews with the

840
00:59:07,119 --> 00:59:10,320
talent, directors and producers of the
reality shows, documentaries and docuseries like we've

841
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:15,079
mentioned, Saturdays, I have an
episode. I have a series called Saturday

842
00:59:15,119 --> 00:59:17,760
Series where I interview people in my
life who I find have really cool stories.

843
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:22,239
And so it's six episodes a week. So go to Reality Life with

844
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,559
Kate Casey wherever you listen to podcasts. But also you can sign up for

845
00:59:24,599 --> 00:59:30,920
that must watch list by going to
Katecasey dot substack dot com. It's free.

846
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:32,920
You sign up. Every Monday in
your inbox, it will tell you

847
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,039
these are like this week, It's
like eight things don't miss out on any

848
00:59:37,039 --> 00:59:38,800
of these and you can go back
to archive list, so it's like maybe

849
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,440
there was something three months ago and
you'll go back and go, oh shit,

850
00:59:42,519 --> 00:59:45,840
that looks great. Oh that's great. Well, thank you and pat

851
00:59:45,159 --> 00:59:51,039
Bad TV, Bad TV Dylan with
Dylan Wren. We're recapping Single Life,

852
00:59:51,119 --> 00:59:53,440
ninety Day and Below Deck. So
if you're a fan of other of those

853
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:57,519
shows, and if you'd like to
support us on Patreon, head onto patreon

854
00:59:57,559 --> 01:00:00,800
dot com. Slash another podcast network. We do two shows there a week

855
01:00:00,039 --> 01:00:05,039
for the five dollars. Tier one
is just talking whatever comes to mind and

856
01:00:05,079 --> 01:00:07,559
the other one is a recap of
episodes from Below Deck from the past.

857
01:00:08,039 --> 01:00:13,280
Awesome. Thank you guys so much. It's been a pleasure. We should

858
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,199
do this once a month. Let's
let's do it once a month. Thanks

859
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:21,519
Caylin, and thanks everybody. You're
a parent now, so don't fuck it up.