WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:04.040 Yeah, So we focused on the US Air Force and more specifically an agency 2 00:00:04.040 --> 00:00:07.879 within it called US Transcom, which a lot of folks don't know about, 3 00:00:07.879 --> 00:00:13.199 but they're the command to control hub for pretty much all data orchestration amongst different 4 00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:18.280 agencies as well as contracting partners. So it's arguably the largest data creator in 5 00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:21.839 the world and not easy to get into, right. And I wrote the 6 00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:25.320 proposal on not a need topic. Mean, they didn't list this down like, 7 00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:28.800 hey, we need blockchain, which is usually how they procure solutions. 8 00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:31.600 I did an open talk is saying hey, you may have never heard of 9 00:00:31.679 --> 00:00:33.640 this, but I'm going to tell you you need this, and they said, 10 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:36.280 all right, we'll give you a little scratch see if you can prove 11 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:46.960 it, and we did. This content is brought to you by Uphold, 12 00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:51.119 which is a great crypto platform that I've been using since twenty eighteen. Uphold 13 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:55.159 has all the top cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin and all the all coins. In fact, 14 00:00:55.159 --> 00:00:58.840 they have two hundred and sixty plus cryptocurrencies on their platform. You can 15 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:03.359 also trade precious stable coins and thirty seven fiat currencies. In addition, they 16 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:08.640 are available in over one hundred and fifty countries and this platform is fully reserved. 17 00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:12.040 They do audits so you can trust that your funds are safe. No 18 00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:15.879 commingling, no lending out your funds. If you'd like to learn more about 19 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:21.439 Uphold, please visit the link in the description. Welcome to the Thinking Crypto 20 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:23.719 Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward, and with me today is Benjamin 21 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:29.959 Diggles, who's the co founder and chief strategy officer at Constellation Network. Benjamin, 22 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:32.760 great to have you on. Hey, thanks for having me, Tony. 23 00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:36.760 It was great meeting you at the DC summit and talking shop, so 24 00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:40.280 I'm glad that you invited us on. So this is awesome. Yeah. 25 00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:44.159 Absolutely. We met the DC Blockchain Summit and I got a bit of a 26 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:47.920 preview about the Consolation Network, and I was like, wait, I gotta 27 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:51.920 get you on the podcast because this sounds really great. You're working with the 28 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:56.439 government, and the fact that the government's using blockchain in itself is pretty amazing. 29 00:01:56.799 --> 00:01:59.319 But before we get there, tell us about yourself. Where you're from. 30 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:02.200 Where'd you grow up? Yeah? Yeah, so those that know me, 31 00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:07.519 I hail from Portland, Orgon. I grew up on a rural sheep 32 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:10.599 farm ount in Oregon, so that's how I started my life, and I 33 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:14.639 went to a small high school. I graduated with sixteen kids, so it 34 00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:16.400 was very small. And the only reason I bring that up because I think 35 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:21.159 it's such a weird factoid, is one of my fellow students I graduated with 36 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:23.159 is named j R. Willett and he's the guy that invented the ICO. 37 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:29.120 So I can't believe I was at like Backwoods organ and this brainiac next to 38 00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:30.960 me is the guy that created the ICO. So I want to celebrate JR. 39 00:02:31.759 --> 00:02:37.120 That's pretty amazing. Hold on, so hold on, he created the 40 00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:40.639 ICO? Did he work with like the folks at Ethereum or other projects? 41 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:45.400 Yeah, I mean it's a whole I encourage people just to type in JR. 42 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:49.360 Willett, w I L E T and read all about how he went 43 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:53.000 about it in you know, twenty eighteen. So yeah, he was a 44 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:55.599 real pioneer and so I'm very proud of him. So I just know, 45 00:02:55.759 --> 00:03:00.479 for you know, thinking crypto, that's a pretty cool factoid to check it 46 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:05.759 out for sure. So was you know your first encounter bitcoin and crypto via 47 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:07.800 JR? Or was it you know, separately, And then you're like, 48 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:12.360 wait a minute, JR knew what he was talking about or something. No, 49 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:15.560 I mean back then. Of course this you know dates me, but 50 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:17.800 I graduated in nineteen ninety eight, so we were still talking web one back 51 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:22.960 then, so the idea of cryptocurrency was well into the future. But we 52 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:25.560 recreated, reconnected after I found out that, like, wow, you played 53 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:28.400 this role, so we got on the phone. I was like, buddy, 54 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:30.439 what you know it was? And he was equally just like, wait 55 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:32.719 a minute, you're working with the Air Force on blockchain. It was just 56 00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:37.840 kind of this interesting collision of worlds. Always had mad respect for him. 57 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:42.560 But my first encounter with bitcoin was from a friend named Ian Mitchell, a 58 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:44.960 really close friend of mine who passed away, so I would like to give 59 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:47.240 him a shout out. He introduced me to bitcoin in twenty twelve. I 60 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:52.280 started buying at about four dollars, but at the time, let's be honest, 61 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:53.840 I didn't see the potential. It was more of just this funny money 62 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:59.919 that was kind of interesting expression to mess around with value. But I had 63 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:02.120 to give a shout out to my co founder, Ben Jorgenson, the CEO. 64 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:05.240 He's the guy that really unlocked my mind around the possibility, and that 65 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:09.199 took place in twenty seventeen. He was like, you got to get involved 66 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:13.080 in blockchain, man, because he knew how important data sovereignty and privacy was 67 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:15.000 to me. He's like, you got to get involved in this. I 68 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:16.079 was like, no way. Everybody's the star of their own movie in that 69 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:20.959 industry. So yeah, that's when I sort of took the red pill and 70 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:25.720 realized that digital assets and you know, blockchain is going to be the way 71 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:29.519 of the future, and I dove in hard. Wow man, you bought 72 00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:33.160 bitcoin at four dollars. You're an og man. Oh yeah, I mean, 73 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:35.720 I guess you know, it's funny. I many people that it's always 74 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:39.319 like this competition. I got there when it was thirty cents, like yay, 75 00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:42.319 and I you know, I've always been somewhat of a bitcoin maximalist, 76 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:45.879 just because of the amazing expressions that brought from peer to peer payments and this 77 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:51.040 mostly the resilient network that distributed ledger technology. This new term that came out 78 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:55.319 through bitcoin was like, wait a minute, we can apply this to a 79 00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:59.879 lot of things beyond just finance. So that's what really made me excited. 80 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:02.920 Wow, that's so amazing, man. And you know, hindsight is twenty 81 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:06.560 twenty and I often think about what if I was early like that to bitcoin, 82 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:11.040 I would have pottly sold it early, not see the value back then, 83 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:15.560 because it wasn't as prominent as it is now. There wasn't these different 84 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:19.040 use cases and thesis and much more. So, you know, did you 85 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:24.480 sell early? Did you hold on to some you know whatever you can share 86 00:05:24.519 --> 00:05:27.439 there? Yeah? Yeah, what are you the Feds? I'm just I 87 00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:30.839 know, so I my wife and I Actually, funny enough, when bitcoin 88 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:33.720 was right around four hundred dollars, we got hit with a big tax bill 89 00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:35.399 and we were like, all right, we got to come up with some 90 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:39.000 liquid together. It's like, oh wait, we have this all this bitcoin. 91 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:41.759 Let's let's sell a bunch of it. And to this day we call 92 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:46.160 it the multimillion dollar tax bill. Right, it was painful, but we 93 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:49.480 continued to stack our bags after that, and so I've always been one to 94 00:05:50.079 --> 00:05:54.319 a proponent of holding onto bitcoin as long as possible. So yeah, I 95 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:57.800 would. I'm certainly not living on that four dollars bitcoin today. I'll tell 96 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:01.480 you that I appreciate are you sharing that. I'm always fascinating because it's so 97 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:05.319 intriguing, right, different people from different walks of life and how they first 98 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:09.079 encounter bitcoin and how they treated it. You know, you have the bitcoin 99 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:13.759 pizza guy spend ten thousand bigcoin and pizza and today he's like, oh my 100 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:16.959 god, you know, yeah, yeah, painful. Yeah, all right, 101 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:21.600 let's talk about Consolation Network. Give us an overview of the blockchain and 102 00:06:21.639 --> 00:06:25.120 all the things that you guys do. Yeah, I mean, you know, 103 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:28.560 we founded the company in twenty seventeen, and you know, we knew 104 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:30.360 we were going to be different from the day we started, and so we've 105 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:33.279 never really tried to be one of those sort of me too companies. Hey 106 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:36.399 we're going to try to take this on or be the ethereum killer. And 107 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:40.000 don't get me wrong, we have certain expressions where we're like, hey, 108 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:44.160 this is where the shortcomings are in some of these linear blockchains. And for 109 00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:46.519 that reason, we created you know, ours as a directed a cyclic graph, 110 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:50.399 and we were heavily you know, inspired by Iota and some of the 111 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:54.720 other DAGs that have existed, but we wanted to be also one of those 112 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:58.920 first movers in the directed a cyclic graph movement, to the tune where we 113 00:06:58.920 --> 00:07:02.759 even named our cryptocur and sy dag dag so that harkens back to our design 114 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:08.240 principles. But one of the things we really focused on, not one of 115 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:12.879 the thing we really focused on, was being data focused and really working on 116 00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:17.319 developer tooling for adoption that would focus on legacy systems. You know, a 117 00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:20.360 lot of stuff is kind of building into this new Web three future, which 118 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:24.759 we certainly support and believe in we have tooling for. But we thought, 119 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:28.560 what if we had a micro service framework that could dip into these legacy systems, 120 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:32.439 bring sensitive data on chain, to bring the promises of Web three to 121 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:35.879 the Web two world. Because a lot of people don't realize, I've been 122 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:40.879 in enterprise most of my career, it's really hard to rip and replace existing 123 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:45.680 systems and you know, workflows and whatnot. And so we thought, all 124 00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:49.279 right, well, let's focus on the validation of complex data types and data 125 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:53.600 management solutions, and so our DAG token, the utility of it is is 126 00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:57.600 the validation of data. And one of the big decisions we made was to 127 00:07:57.639 --> 00:08:01.319 have a network that not only was, like I said, developer friendly, 128 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:05.759 but could work with any data type in the world, which makes us very 129 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:11.759 attractive to I would say some of these antiquated people like the DoD wow and 130 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:18.120 you are a ERC twenty token. It's a ERC twenty blockchain on top of 131 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:20.560 Etherem. So this is one of the biggest nit misnombers. And I always 132 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:24.639 probably shouldn't lead off with that that we are our own native blockchain solutions, 133 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:28.800 so we are not built on any other ecosystem. We are our own native 134 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:31.839 ecosystem, built from the ground up to the tune where we even have our 135 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:35.360 own token standard. We call it the L zero and that's because to our 136 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:39.679 knowledge, we were the first L zero protocol that was out there, so 137 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:43.240 we wanted to harken that to the L zero token. So our token types 138 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:48.000 while very similar to ERC twenties in the sense that anybody can mint and launch 139 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:52.320 any type of token they want on our network, but it is an L 140 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:56.120 zero. So that's what makes us, I think a little bit special in 141 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:58.840 this industry that we're not built on ethereum, and that allows us to bring 142 00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:03.519 in those amazing qualities of digital assets through our L zero token with the match 143 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:07.840 speed and scalability of the DAG infrastructure, so we're not stuck with, you 144 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:13.960 know, gas fees. We have a very robust network that has feelus transactions 145 00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:18.840 and is wildly scalable, even though I do believe that felis is scalability are 146 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:24.519 becoming commodity and that's not as interesting to the industry as much anymore, unless, 147 00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:26.399 of course, you're paying those pesky gas fees when it comes to ethereum. 148 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:31.960 Right, So do you have a smart contract technology enabled on your blockchain? 149 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:35.320 And then my information may be wrong because I read like that it was 150 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.200 ERC twenty but that's completely wrong. Well, you know you're not wrong, 151 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:41.559 just so you don't feel like you're going crazy. When we launched, we 152 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:46.919 launched as an RC twenty to take advantage of the big developer liquidity of the 153 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:52.159 ERC twenty ecosystem. But we did a token swap about two years when we 154 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:56.559 launched our main net and that's what went to our native token. So if 155 00:09:56.600 --> 00:10:01.480 somebody says they're still holding onto Constellation R twenty, that's sort of a dead 156 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:05.240 token that happened before the launch. And I'm really proud of that strategy. 157 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:07.720 I think it worked out for us, but that tends to be a misnomer. 158 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:11.679 But to answer your first question there, as far as smart contracts, 159 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:16.399 we made the decision to be, like I said, a micro service framework 160 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:18.960 focused on legacy, very similar to a red hat if those that know that 161 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:24.679 technology stack that said, so, for us to work with smart contracts is 162 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:28.159 imperative because we live in a very smart contract world and I truly believe in 163 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:33.639 smart contracts. I think they're an amazing expression and application of what can be 164 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.480 possible with blockchain. So we do this through bridges and other approaches, and 165 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:41.919 some of the work we actually do with the government is through an agnostic smart 166 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:46.879 contract platform and we partner with Simba Chain. For those that know who that 167 00:10:46.039 --> 00:10:50.240 platform is really great guys, and they have well more than just smart contracts. 168 00:10:50.279 --> 00:10:54.639 So that's how we approach it. Wow, and the dagtoken you mentioned, 169 00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:58.039 tell us a bit about the tokenomics around that. Yeah, yeah, 170 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:01.639 I'll tell you what I can. You know, we've got roughly three point 171 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:05.159 five billion in supply right now. We're sitting at about one hundred and fifty 172 00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:07.519 million dollar market cap, and of course that changes with the wind right and 173 00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:13.600 we're sitting somewhere around top four hundred tokens, which seems not like the closest 174 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:18.159 to the front bench, but when there's now at this point millions of tokens, 175 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:20.679 that looks pretty good, right, And you know, I would say 176 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:26.159 that the big thing around our token is that if you want to buy it, 177 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:30.480 you can use uphold right now. And top exchanges we work with are 178 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:35.600 like gate io and cou Coin, m exc and so there's some really great 179 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:39.759 ways to express the token. And right now our targets are really focused on 180 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:43.799 tier one exchanges now that we've proven a lot of stuff out. But the 181 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:48.679 reason that's been tricky for us is just because we are now zero, right 182 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:52.600 if we were an ERC twenty, our ability to slot into you know, 183 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:56.600 coinbase is literally just a little bit of paperwork and some due diligence on the 184 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:00.679 business side, all things that of course we've passed. But we have to 185 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:03.240 be very kind of strategic of how we integrate the L zero token as a 186 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:09.000 new category amongst our ecosystem, which I think is a really exciting swim lane 187 00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:13.720 to be in. For sure. Now we got to talk about why is 188 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:18.519 the US government using consolation and howard to using it? Yeah, yeah, 189 00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:20.879 I mean it's always kind of a funny thing, right like, because there's 190 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:24.600 sort of like I kind of look at it as a paradox because this industry 191 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:28.600 is sort of worried about the government because we haven't gotten the regulations. We 192 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:31.799 don't really know what's going on. They're sending people notices and whatnot out of 193 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:35.399 nowhere against rules that don't exist. And that's a lot of this stuff we 194 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:39.159 saw in DC, right. And this is a really exciting year because I 195 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:41.840 think the election year is sort of forcing the hand for us to figure this 196 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:48.639 out. People are tired, they're tired of us not like really figuring this 197 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:52.600 stuff out, and so for us to have made that decision, you know, 198 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:56.519 my background is enterprise. I was with Oracle five years before this. 199 00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:58.679 When I joined this, it wasn't to be the star of my own movie, 200 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:01.759 butther how do we create true adoption? How do we see if there's 201 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:07.279 an actual there there is this going to actually affect through existing workflows or is 202 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:09.240 this a farce? Right, because a lot of people don't really think it's 203 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:13.440 going to make its way into the real world. I personally wrote a contract 204 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:18.879 proposal back in March of twenty nineteen, so we effectively have been working with 205 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:22.960 the government since then since I won that award. And it was around a 206 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:26.759 thing called multi domain command and control, which is sort of a mouthful that 207 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:31.120 just really means, you know, peer to peer orchestration of data amongst different 208 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:37.159 constituents, either within the government or the porest environment of contracting partners outside right, 209 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:39.120 And I thought, well, guys, if we're able to secure payments 210 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:46.120 using bitcoin across these constituents anonymously through decentralization, what if we took that to 211 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:50.759 a private network where we could actually use the same sort of methodology without having 212 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:56.679 middlemen to orchestrate really sensitive information amongst folks. Because we are a data focused 213 00:13:56.600 --> 00:14:01.600 platform, and the term data exchange thrown around a lot, but really what 214 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:05.559 that's evolved into is what is known as secure information sharing, which is just 215 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:09.960 a higher security around communications because we all know that there's some real lackluster attributes 216 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:15.559 that come with HTTP when it comes to hacking and leaks and corruption and all 217 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:20.440 that stuff. And so I've always been a big believer in open source and 218 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:24.480 sharing the wealth, and I believe that this industry is such a big pie 219 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:28.519 that we should all be collaborating and working together that I created a program called 220 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.240 iron Spider. It's an acronym because if you know the government, they love 221 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:35.960 their acronyms, and it stands for secure Interoperable Peer to peer data resilience. 222 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:39.440 That's what the Spider stands for. And I don't even like spiders, but 223 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:45.679 so we created a program that invites all Web three solutions to come on because 224 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:48.200 we don't believe there is one blockchain to rule them all. And I'm very 225 00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:52.279 proud of that. And so we've invited i would say about six companies that 226 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:56.960 are now actively a part of Iron Spider to really push the envelope of this 227 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:03.080 blockchain toolkit that will allow the government to create standards for communicating amongst each other. 228 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:05.759 And it's a really beautiful thing. And so since then, like you 229 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:09.200 said, five years, we've never missed a milestone, never missed a task 230 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:13.440 order, We've delivered everything on time, and we continue to kick total ass 231 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:16.759 with the government. I'm very proud of that. That's amazing and congrats on 232 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:20.440 that. And I want to dive a bit deeper into that because to your 233 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:22.960 point, you know, as you started with, a lot of people are 234 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:26.960 concerned about the government, Hey get your act together, we need clarity and 235 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:31.039 so forth, and there's lawsuits coming from this agency and that agency. The 236 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:33.120 government. Are they recognizing, Hey, we're behind a curve here. We 237 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:39.480 need to get our systems upgraded. We need to use blockchain to improve efficiency 238 00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:43.039 communication, like you said, preventing hacks and the ability for hackers to take 239 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:48.559 advantage of things. And did they approach you or you pitch them and to 240 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:52.159 confirm it's the US Air Force. Yeah, So we focused on the US 241 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:56.399 Air Force and more specifically an agency within it called US Transcom, which a 242 00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:00.559 lot of folks don't know about, but they're the command to control hub for 243 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:06.919 pretty much all data orchestration amongst different agencies as well as contracting partners. So 244 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:11.000 it's arguably the largest data creator in the world and not easy to get into, 245 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:15.399 right. And I wrote the proposal on not a need topic. Mean, 246 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:17.960 they didn't list this down like, hey, we need blockchain, which 247 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:21.799 is usually how they procure solutions. I did an open talk is saying hey, 248 00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:23.000 you may have never heard of this, but I'm going to tell you 249 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:26.080 you need this, and they said, all right, we'll give you a 250 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:29.039 little scratch, see if you can prove it. And we did. Right. 251 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:33.480 It was a long road, but as of October of twenty twenty two, 252 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:37.840 we were validated by the Air Force Research for Lavatory as secure, scalable 253 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:41.159 and DOOD approved and you know, while that sounds very sexy and it is 254 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:45.000 a big badge of honor for me, that still means that now we're moving 255 00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:48.480 this into production, we're having to really test it out. But they said, 256 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:52.399 yes, Constellation does what it says it can do, and it can 257 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:56.480 make a big impact within the DD. But the issue is is that they're 258 00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:03.399 so laden with you know, antiquated an old technology that bringing in some godlike 259 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.519 technology is almost an immediate no, right And I worked at Oracle. Everything 260 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:10.160 was a no, so you had to get I was really good about working 261 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:12.079 relationships and being like, no, no, think of it this way. 262 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:17.559 And so it's been a lot of education and evangelism and dare not I talk 263 00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:19.839 about crypto. For the first three years, I'd never mentioned it because that 264 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:23.920 was like Ponzi schemes, human trast you all these awful things, and I'm 265 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:26.359 not saying they're wrong, but at the same time, there's a lot of 266 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:32.079 good. So I just kind of focus more on the technology and where they 267 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:36.480 really clicked, where it was like the big aha that got mind share across 268 00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:41.039 a large swath of stakeholders was we don't have to rip and replace your legacy 269 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:47.559 solutions. We can work alongside them today by adding a few little tiny bits 270 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:51.720 in here to increase your security one hundred x and they're like, okay, 271 00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:55.480 let's do that, versus all these vendors are coming in saying, hey, 272 00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:57.480 we have to completely reroute your system, we have to train your people on 273 00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:02.480 new disciplines, we have to get new kind of web attributes, and we 274 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:04.920 haven't had to do that, and that's what's allowing us to really move very 275 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:11.480 quickly through our engagements. Wow, that's amazing. And is it kind of 276 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:15.319 the old fashioned government contract where they pay you and you come in and help 277 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:18.359 them to get this all set up or is it a different type of relationship 278 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:23.759 because you are a public blockchain. Well, you know, they do a 279 00:18:23.799 --> 00:18:26.559 lot of different types of relationships. Some of them are very R and D 280 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:32.480 focus on grants. If you hear about a government grant and usually have an 281 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:37.200 open i'm sorry, a research institution like a university or whatnot, or a 282 00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:41.480 nonprofit to build out some sort of an idea that really doesn't go anywhere. 283 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:45.960 It's very important. I'm not saying it's not important research, but the contracts 284 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:51.400 are really focused on production, like they have this pathway of phases to get 285 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:56.000 you into a production so that they can actually absorb this and start utilizing it 286 00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:59.680 as a true solution. And so that's where we've been sitting. And the 287 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:03.359 reason why I just keep telling everybody in blockchain or anybody in the world get 288 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:06.720 involved with the government is they don't take IP, so it's not and they 289 00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:10.440 don't take equity. So for us to get money to essentially build against our 290 00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:12.880 roadmap, they just want to be the first in line to absorb it and 291 00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:17.039 they want to adapt it to their use cases. So they all talk about 292 00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:21.279 this adaptation like, all right, you got this blockchain, can you wield 293 00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:26.640 it against this use case with the system overview and the operational overview that we 294 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:30.039 have in front of us to actually be effective. And that's what we've been 295 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:33.119 working on over and over showing yes we can, Yes we can, Yes 296 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:37.240 we can, and it's been going really great. So that to me is 297 00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:40.799 what's so beautiful about is we're getting paid to build a roadmap, we're adjusting 298 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:44.759 it for the government, but in turn it's attracted a lot of enterprise that's 299 00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:47.839 looking at saying, well, heck, if the DoD trust this blockchain, 300 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:52.160 they're an American blockchain solution. They're highly scrutinized. We have to do the 301 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:55.039 right thing. We can't cutch corners, we can't be shady. I have 302 00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:57.119 to be docks. I have to be out there. It garners a lot 303 00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:00.880 of trust, which I think is the most important expression we're all looking for 304 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:06.559 in Web three today. Absolutely, what's your security layers? I guess is 305 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:08.680 what I'm trying to figure out. Because if you're using you, and I 306 00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:11.960 say it's air Force is using an other enterprise, right, They're concerned about 307 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:15.960 data and they don't want that in the open. Is there like a layer, 308 00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:21.400 subnet or whatever it is that protects all this information? You know, 309 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:23.799 it's not profound, and it almost sounds kind of cheesy, but it's like 310 00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:29.440 we're basically giving them an intranet because we have two flavors. You can use 311 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:33.400 our public network or you can use a private network in which you can issue 312 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:38.559 your own node validators for the security, and depending on how fast you want 313 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:42.559 your transaction speeds and how secure you want the network, you just horizontally scale 314 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:48.039 more node operators within your own infrastructure and so. And they work with pretty 315 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:52.759 much every cloud platform, Amazon, Google Cloud platform and so forth, But 316 00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:57.279 there's a program called Platform one, which is really their hosting provider that allows 317 00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:03.200 them to manage these solution soup to nuts. But we're not a SaaS pass 318 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:06.759 through. What that means is software as a service. We're not managing it 319 00:21:06.839 --> 00:21:08.519 for them, so we don't even know what the data is. We don't 320 00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:12.839 see any of the data because they run their entire network. That said, 321 00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:17.720 I've been pushing them. It's a slow push, a gentle nudge that I 322 00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:22.839 believe that public networks is really where those amazing things take place. And I 323 00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:26.480 think as more of these expressions come through public networks to show that they're safe, 324 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:30.359 they're secure, they're going to start to do what I would say is 325 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:33.200 a hybrid because there's certain networks a lot of people don't know about, like 326 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:38.079 the cipper net arguably the most secure network in the world that's terminal based. 327 00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:44.000 This where all the top secret, really you know, sensitive stuff comes from. 328 00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:47.599 I believe that's going to be replaced by by blockchain here in the next 329 00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:51.680 five years. And I know that may be wishful thinking, but it's just 330 00:21:51.759 --> 00:22:00.160 it's in the cards for sure. So in regards to the timeline of going 331 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:03.039 to full production, and so forth. What can you share there? How 332 00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:04.799 long? How long the process are they? I know, government moves slow. 333 00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:08.319 They do move slow, and it's for good reasons, right, Like 334 00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:12.200 you know how it is you bring a software package into the government, it 335 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:17.000 may have a back door something that could be detrimental. So the level of 336 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:19.680 scrutiny is the highest I've ever seen, and I've worked on some pretty hardcore 337 00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:23.319 enterprise stuff. But that's a good thing, right, makes me feel good. 338 00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:26.480 If they were just like, hey, here, we're signing this up, 339 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:27.400 I'd be like, oh, man, America is in a bad spot. 340 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:33.519 But you know, usually the pathway is about two years. They say 341 00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:36.039 three when they first stick or shocked me, and then I had others say 342 00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:38.720 you could do it in six months. We're probably about six months into the 343 00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:44.480 pathway of production, and I imagine by the end of this year we'll be 344 00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:48.279 in one of the tiers. So they have a thing called Asle two that 345 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:52.200 represents sort of like the not top secret or secret, you know, sensitive 346 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.839 information, public information, and then once you get up to like Aisle five, 347 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:00.279 it's like controlled unclassified information. Aisle six is top secret, and it 348 00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:04.440 goes up from there, and that requires some of us to have clearances. 349 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:07.680 I have clearance, so that allows me to work with some sensitive stuff, 350 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:14.079 which was an interesting exercise, let's just say that. And so it's a 351 00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:18.960 really great program that is scrutinized. You know, they take your whole repository 352 00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:22.480 or get all your stuff. And so, yeah, we're on path, 353 00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:26.240 and that to me is going to be my legacy, my friend. Once 354 00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:29.839 we're like rocking in that production experience, I will feel like I've ruled the 355 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:32.960 world because this has been one of the hardest things I've ever done in my 356 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:34.920 life. Oh, I can only imagine. So did you have to go 357 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:41.519 into like uber background check like everything, what did you do back in nineteen 358 00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:45.319 ninety five or something? You wouldn't ninety pages and I had to get printed 359 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:48.960 picture. But I've got a you know what, it's called a common Access 360 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.480 card that allows me to get on any base, you know, and access 361 00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:56.039 government systems and share files and whatnot. So it was a badge honor. 362 00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:57.880 I called my dad. I was like, hey, Dad, do you 363 00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:00.960 remember when we were young, and You're like, hey, keep your nose 364 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:02.839 cleaned. Kid. You don't know what you're gonna be doing in the future. 365 00:24:02.839 --> 00:24:07.279 It's like Hey, we did it. Wow, that's amazing man, 366 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:11.400 and congrats on that. I'm curious about, you know, given that you're 367 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:17.920 working with the US Air Force, are there other government agencies or factions of 368 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:21.880 government that are also interested given that they may be you know, moving secure 369 00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:25.200 data and so forth. Yeah, I mean it's a great question. And 370 00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:26.599 I can also talk a little bit about some of the use cases here. 371 00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:32.640 So even though I talk about US Air Force, that's not the only agency 372 00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:36.279 we work with. We are, We're connected to the US Treasury Department, 373 00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:41.319 State Department, NASA, Space Force. You know, we've done some exploratory 374 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:47.319 work for the CIA, Department Homeland Security, so a lot. It's wide, 375 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:49.279 right, we wanted to have a very wide set of tools, but 376 00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:52.599 go deep with some of these institutions. Iron Spider is just my baby, 377 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:56.039 and so that's why I talk about it the most because I'm just hell bent 378 00:24:56.119 --> 00:25:00.960 on that being the standard expression for what we can and bring to the table. 379 00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:03.480 But with that, it's all around secure information sharing, right, it's 380 00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:07.200 not profound. People just want to put data from the source on chain to 381 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:11.160 ensure it hasn't been tampered and that they can run quality assurance on it to 382 00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:14.680 you know, it hasn't been corrupted. It is what it says. It 383 00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:17.960 is that goes a long way with just some basic data sets, right, 384 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:21.279 because a lot of the stuff we do is through email, a lot of 385 00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:22.880 stuff over Wi Fi. I mean, all of these are threat vectors that 386 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:27.160 can are honeypots if you will, but they're also very interested. I'd say 387 00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:30.960 one of the hot topics is around trustworthy AI. That's another thing. It's 388 00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:34.599 like, Okay, everybody's goga over AI. They're sort of jumping on it 389 00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:40.079 without asking questions, no contemplation, let's just go with it. But there's 390 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:45.839 real issues with you know, hallucinations, corruption, Maybe even the algorithms themselves 391 00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:48.720 have been tampered before you ran it and after and you didn't even look at 392 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:51.200 that as a threat vector. And so they want to be able to put 393 00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:55.680 as much of that from like large language models and pen that to a blockchain 394 00:25:56.039 --> 00:26:00.160 as well as the algorithmic algorithm itself to ensure that, hey, when we're 395 00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:06.200 about to launch something significant or even automate something significant, we need to have 396 00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:08.039 those checks and balances in real time saying yep, this is good, to 397 00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:12.400 go go forth and do whatever shenanigans you're going to do or hey, stop 398 00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:17.519 the system. Something has either been missing, corrupted, or there's a man 399 00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:21.160 in the middle attack. But we're trying to prove that that actually can't happen, 400 00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:22.559 which I know, again might be a little bit of wishful thinking, 401 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:26.960 but we're certainly doing what I would say is some of that leap frog stuff 402 00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:30.920 right now. And one of the other use cases I would say is around 403 00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:36.000 IoT and machine to machine. You know, we're buying drones and we're using 404 00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:38.160 systems in America. I mean, where's all the manufacturing happening. It's in 405 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:41.759 China, right there's kind of a conflict of interest there if we're going to 406 00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:45.480 hit economies of scale and be first movers, but we outsource all of our 407 00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:49.839 manufacturing. So how do we ensure that we put you know, blockchain or 408 00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:55.920 a pen data from enclaves or IoT sensors or whatever it may be to ensure 409 00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:59.720 that we understand the provenance of where these things came from and we know that 410 00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:03.039 they're doing what they're supposed to. We're not being you know, undermined by 411 00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:08.039 our adversaries. Cool question on in the AAI and blockchain relationship, do you 412 00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:12.720 see it as a symbiotic relationship where blockchain helps the police AI, but AI 413 00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:18.079 also helps improve certain blockchain attributes and processing data, and so for them seeing 414 00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:22.640 a bit on both sides. I think you alluded to some of it one 415 00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:25.599 hundred percent. I mean, we use some AI in our blockchain. I 416 00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:30.000 just feel like every company uses AI somewhere. We just don't boast it because 417 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.519 it's like just sort of fundamentally baked in. We don't think much of it. 418 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.920 That said, you know, as data is collected, because we collect 419 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:41.680 a lot of data, and those hashes of the data more appropriately, they 420 00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:45.759 get bundled into snapshots, and that snapshot is a rich treasure trobe of data 421 00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:52.400 that can be used for not only traditional data management solutions in business intelligence solutions, 422 00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.000 but to your point, adding AI to that to model it and be 423 00:27:56.039 --> 00:28:00.599 able to optimize that data is a whole new frontier. You know, we 424 00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:04.359 have a strong relationship with Forward Edge AI, which is another government focus entity 425 00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:08.160 that does AI algorithms, and they're just like stoked to be able to take 426 00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:15.160 this data that we are basically proving the fidelity and the source and attribution of 427 00:28:15.559 --> 00:28:19.039 and then running against these AI models. I believe that beyond just the expression 428 00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:23.160 you're talking about about doing cool things with AI on top of these snapshots, 429 00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:30.519 to have blockchain to enforce and keep that AI trustworthy and honest, so we 430 00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:33.319 know the source. What I would like to call an assurance score. Hey, 431 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:37.720 this thing has a ninety eight percent assurance score that we know all the 432 00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:41.119 data where it came from. We are as we're positive. Do you want 433 00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:42.920 to rerun it till we get to one hundred or we want to isolate that 434 00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:47.440 two percent to make sure that it's not a backdoor. I just think it's 435 00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:48.920 the hand to fit the glove, and it's crazy to me that it hasn't 436 00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:56.480 really clicked yet with the AI companies circling back to the government and using consolation. 437 00:28:56.240 --> 00:29:00.359 Obviously, you mentioned your approach was to talk about block off chain, 438 00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:03.880 not crypto and things like that because there was certain stigma years ago, right, 439 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:07.079 I think that stigma is starting to fade away now. However, are 440 00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:10.920 they aware that you guys have a token. Are they aware of the situation 441 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.279 of you know, what's happening in the United States? Would there's not clarity 442 00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:19.359 for the entire market except maybe bitcoin, or they don't care. They're just 443 00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:22.319 like, hey, this is attack. I'm going to build it. Whatever 444 00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:26.319 the sec whatever the c FDC, whatever this these people are doing, I 445 00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:30.880 don't care. Well. I would say the gamut is as colorful as it 446 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:36.799 is. Just in the commercial sector of interest in blockchain, I meet generals 447 00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:41.240 that are bullish. They're all about they've been mining raven coin out of their 448 00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:44.279 house, really weird stuff stuff. I'm like, wow, you are warming 449 00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:45.759 my heart. I can't believe that. So they're all about it. And 450 00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:48.160 then there's others that are like, oh, this is the biggest rug pull. 451 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:51.680 I can't believe you're doing this, Like this is you know, there's 452 00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:56.160 a lot of opinions right that said, as we all can see, what's 453 00:29:56.200 --> 00:30:00.519 happening at the hill is that it's gotten too big to ignore, and you 454 00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:03.480 know, the money side of it is frustrating. I think that's really held 455 00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:07.240 back the adoption and expression of what can happen with blockchain. But at the 456 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:10.279 same time, inversely, it's brought a lot of attention to it. So 457 00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:12.480 it's kind of a tough one to look at. But we often use the 458 00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:17.480 word digital assets the term right like that to me is like the soft place 459 00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:21.960 for people to feel a little bit better. About about crypto because when you 460 00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:26.200 say digital assets, it sort of removes it a step away from finance, 461 00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:30.079 which cryptocurrency because you have that currency piece. But we start thinking about like 462 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:33.440 the utility of like NFTs or like we have we have a utility token that 463 00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:40.079 validates data. How can digital assets do procurement at the edge in real time 464 00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:42.680 like a micro payment from a micro service from one sensor to the other. 465 00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:48.119 This unlocks workflows that a lot of people blows their mind and creates efficiencies that 466 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:52.839 we've never even been able to dream of. So I often say it's like 467 00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:57.119 ice tea without ice. If you don't have digital assets involved in your workflow, 468 00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:02.480 you're missing out on some of the most amazing expressions that this industry has 469 00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:07.359 to offer. Absolutely, what's on your twenty twenty four road map? Yeah? 470 00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:11.400 Yeah, I mean so we you know, we have an interesting makeup. 471 00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:15.599 We have essentially three divisions in our company. We have our we have 472 00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:18.240 a hardware division, which we call our door traffic miner, And that was 473 00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:22.839 an expression we decided to really get into the deep in space years ago. 474 00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:25.519 I didn't even know what deepen was until about six months ago. I was 475 00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:30.240 like, oh, there's a term for this around validating data and rewarding people 476 00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:33.519 for their contribution using the hardware for you know, the data that's being sold. 477 00:31:34.119 --> 00:31:37.480 Pretty amazing stuff. So that's one division. The next is our enterprise 478 00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:41.799 in federal which I run, which is our engagements in the enterprise and federal 479 00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:45.279 space not profound. And then of course we have our Web three world right, 480 00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:48.519 and that's where we're heavily. I feel like the more money and effort 481 00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:52.839 and expression I can get through Federal, the more we can sort of, 482 00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:56.359 I guess, for lack of a better term, gamble with Web three tools 483 00:31:56.759 --> 00:32:00.599 because it's still not yet defined. You know, things are fickle, NFTs 484 00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:02.920 we're so hot, like you know, two years ago and now it's a 485 00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:07.640 four letter word ironically, you know, and now we're in the world of 486 00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:09.240 meme coins. I mean things I didn't even know is. I was like, 487 00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:12.680 wow, nazi coin is a real thing right now, Like I didn't 488 00:32:12.680 --> 00:32:15.599 expect. I didn't see that coming, right, And so our roadmap is 489 00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:21.200 heavily focused on things like how do we really figure out our snapshot fees right, 490 00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:24.160 because we are a feeless transaction network, so we want to figure out 491 00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:29.319 a way to really highlight the value of snapshots, so as people create data 492 00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:32.559 that they can make money off those snapshot fees. In accordance with Constellation, 493 00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:37.440 we have a lot what we call metagraphs coming online. This is essentially a 494 00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:40.079 metagraph is a sub network if anybody can build their own blockchain on top of 495 00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:45.759 our network, which is awesome, and we launched our metagraph public capabilities in 496 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:50.240 Q four last year. So now we're seeing people come out of the woodwork 497 00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:52.920 in an amazing way building their own solutions, which makes me so happy. 498 00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:55.880 You know, they're minting their own tokens and all that. We have a 499 00:32:55.920 --> 00:33:00.200 really big hackathon coming up because of that in July to try to get more 500 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:05.200 people to just kick the tires and see what's possible with this, because we 501 00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:07.680 want them to realize how easy it is to configure and drive these things. 502 00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:13.359 But I'd say our big one is that we are about to launch a decentralized 503 00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:15.400 exchange at the end of this year, and a lot of that wrapped around 504 00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:20.119 because we have our own our own token standard by having an an L zero 505 00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:23.240 token. Yes, there's a drawback that we don't get to participate as widely 506 00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:29.240 as we want through the Ethereum liquidity world and developers outside of bridges. But 507 00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:32.039 by having our own sort of treasure trove, it allows us to create a 508 00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:37.599 dex in a way that isn't bolstered by the shortcomings of these predecessors that we 509 00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:42.599 are up against. So yeah, and we even have an interesting thing around 510 00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:45.720 a social token that we're going to be launching here soon, but I'm not 511 00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:49.519 allowed to talk much more about that. But we want to be seen as 512 00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:52.720 fun, Tony, even though everyone's like, oh, you're the boring, 513 00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:57.319 you know, federal blockchain. You know. So I do understand the meme 514 00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:00.039 coin thing. I think it's really cool and fun and everybody wants to have 515 00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:01.920 a good time, and we need to do a better job at showing that 516 00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:06.960 we can actually create things that are fun for the Web three community. I 517 00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:09.559 love it, man, That's that's really great. And uh, I wish 518 00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:14.559 you had like another couple hours to talk about it because I'm really intrigued by 519 00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:19.239 how the government is using this blockchain. But we'll have to schedule you back 520 00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:22.199 on to come and talk about, you know, things as they progress. 521 00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:25.119 But I didn't want to get your thoughts on the crypto market at large. 522 00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:31.039 You know, we've seen incredible adoption and launches of ETFs bitcoin the e theorem 523 00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:35.320 METF just got recently approved. Love to get your thoughts on that, especially 524 00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:38.400 as someone who bought bitcoin at four dollars and where we're at today. Yeah, 525 00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:44.159 yeah, I you know, crypto is interesting in the sense that I 526 00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:49.960 feel like it's unleashed a lot of nervous energy in humans because it feels like 527 00:34:49.960 --> 00:34:52.480 there's this gold rush happening right in front of them. They're like, how 528 00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:55.719 do I get in involved in that? And I often categorize people into two 529 00:34:55.719 --> 00:35:00.079 buckets, which I think kind of creates me as a reductionist. But but 530 00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:02.840 they're either running towards something or they're running away from something, right, And 531 00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:05.760 a lot of people are like, I hate my life. How do I 532 00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:08.320 get crypto rich so I can stop being or doing the thing I'm doing today? 533 00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:13.239 And that opportunistic energy, there's no lack of that in this world, 534 00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:15.440 right, Versus those that I've seen that are up at three in the morning 535 00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:21.199 reading tokenomics. They're understanding the technology, they're getting involved in communities, they're 536 00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:24.840 contributing from a developer perspective, those are the folks that really wore my heart, 537 00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:29.000 right, Like there's plenty of people that want to get rich out there 538 00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:31.480 that said, you know, when it comes to this ETF stuff, as 539 00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:36.880 I mentioned it being an election year, this stuff is well overdue. And 540 00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.320 you know, I just think that a lot of these companies like JP Morgan 541 00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:42.719 Chase, a lot of the big guys, black Rock, you know, 542 00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:45.360 oh, you can name some of these monolithic, huge companies. They've been 543 00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:49.840 waiting on the sidelines, where as weird as it sounds, a trillion dollars 544 00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:52.119 doesn't really mean much to them, but all of a sudden, once it 545 00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:53.440 gets the two trillion, they're like, oh, maybe we might want to 546 00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:59.480 get involved and diversify. But once you start having that institutional money get involved 547 00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:02.880 without relation, you're gambling at the highest stakes table you could possibly be at. 548 00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:07.599 And so I think there's this breath of fresh air that like ethereum and 549 00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:12.760 bitcoin are here to stay. Folks like these are now becoming staple expressions that 550 00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:16.000 we can all trust and use in meaningful ways and we don't have to look 551 00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:21.400 over our shoulders. So I'm excited to see more of this come out and 552 00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:27.000 more support by key constituents within the government to making this real for all. 553 00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:30.800 So I think it's a big win this year. And I've mentioned many times 554 00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:34.280 in the past that twenty twenty four is the year that Constellation poors concrete, 555 00:36:34.519 --> 00:36:37.360 and I don't really feel like that's just for us, meaning we're making big 556 00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:39.920 decisions on where we're going to be for the next ten to twenty years as 557 00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:45.519 a company. But I feel like it's also coinciding what's happening with the industry 558 00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:49.400 at large, that folks like the ETF stuff are pouring concrete, which to 559 00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:52.840 me is awesome. Yeah, And we also saw like a ton of movement 560 00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:59.280 on cryptoregulations with the FIT Bill getting passed in the House. We're seeing Democrats 561 00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:02.960 aligning with Republicans to help get this through, and like you've been stating, 562 00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:07.960 it's an election year, that kind of lights a fire right under some of 563 00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:10.800 these people. Are you optimistic? You know, maybe by next year we'll 564 00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:16.760 have clear, comprehensive regulations signed by the President and things like that. You 565 00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:21.840 know, I would hope, so, you know, Unfortunately, sometimes it's 566 00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:24.639 more of a power play for governments to operate in the gray. You know. 567 00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:29.360 You can see that for example with like what's happened with marijuana, right 568 00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:32.280 Like we all kind of know that, you know, it's not the Devil's 569 00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:37.679 not going to swallow the world if pot exists, but yet it's just an 570 00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:40.280 easier situation for them to tap dance around, especially with what's going on in 571 00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:45.400 the pharmaceutical industry and the fact it's a weed. Same thing happens with crypto, 572 00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:47.880 Like anybody can grow a pot plan at their house, anybody can mint 573 00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:52.639 a crypto currency, you know, like pretty easily. So this changes the 574 00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:55.199 game. I'm really hopeful that we're going to put some big stakes in the 575 00:37:55.199 --> 00:38:00.280 ground as a country, and the whole world's sort of looking at us right 576 00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:01.679 like, what do you guys get it? Because they're going to do whatever 577 00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:06.039 they want in Russia, China, elsewhere, but America. For us to 578 00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:07.519 be able to go to a bank, that's me going to be a big 579 00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.239 moment where it's like, Hey, I'm at a bank and I hold up 580 00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:15.880 my wallet and I sign and they do a bitcoin transfer for USD directly at 581 00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:19.559 my bank. That's when I know we've we've sort of made it right because 582 00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:23.679 that will be the precursor to all institutions absorbing this money because it will be 583 00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:30.000 trusted, insured and backed by institutions that we all trust, namely banks. 584 00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:34.559 So fingers crossed. But as you know, in this world, tomorrow may 585 00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:37.840 be the weirdest news we've ever experienced, you know, so let's hope. 586 00:38:37.880 --> 00:38:42.320 So yeah, absolutely, all right. I got some wrap up questions here 587 00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:45.239 for you. First, if you could create your own metaverse, what would 588 00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:49.719 the theme be? Wow, it's an interesting question. You know, my 589 00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:52.239 wife and I were big gamers. I love gaming, you know, I 590 00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:55.519 don't. I don't have any headsets or anything like that, but you know, 591 00:38:55.559 --> 00:39:00.239 I do think that the metaverse is a very exciting thing. That's I 592 00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:04.320 kind of go back to my statement escape escapism is the hottest it's ever been 593 00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:08.480 right now, and nothing spells escapism harder than the metaverse, right, Like, 594 00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:10.559 Hey, I want to put this thing on via different avatar, live 595 00:39:10.599 --> 00:39:15.519 a whole different life, and I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that, 596 00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:19.639 but I would just you know, I'm sort of a a heal the world 597 00:39:19.639 --> 00:39:22.639 type of guy, right I wish that there was expressions that really bolstered forgiveness 598 00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:27.039 and healing and abundance. I'm a big abundance guy. I believe that we 599 00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:30.719 live in a universe of infinite abundance, And so I don't really care if 600 00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:37.679 there's escapism in the metaverse as long as those really great attributes of humanity come 601 00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:40.559 into it and it doesn't turn into what most stuff does on the internet. 602 00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:45.960 You know, just read any YouTube comment thread and you'll see that, you'll 603 00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:50.320 see the deveolvement of human nature, right, And so that's what worries me, 604 00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:53.000 is that when people can escape who they are, they often do these 605 00:39:53.079 --> 00:39:55.639 awful things, you know, like Westworld, right, And I wish we 606 00:39:55.679 --> 00:40:00.480 could be in a planet where we're actually forgiving, healing and creating abundance for 607 00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:04.519 each other and lifting each other up. So I know that's kind of a 608 00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:07.639 weird answer, but I'm sticking with it. No, I agreed, agreed, 609 00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:10.880 And like personally what I'm I don't even care about the escape of film. 610 00:40:10.920 --> 00:40:15.039 I just want to use like the metaverse to like, oh, I 611 00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:17.800 want going to see what's happening like a real time what's happening in Rome right 612 00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:22.519 now? And yeah, that's what I interest me. Or I want to 613 00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:24.920 watch his artist paint something or something, but I don't necessarily want to be 614 00:40:24.920 --> 00:40:30.360 an avatar or like you know, but just like more like learning, I 615 00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:34.039 guess is what I'm looking forward to for the metaverse. But yeah, to 616 00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:37.880 your point though, escapism and social media and what people do online, that 617 00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:42.719 is gonna I don't know. Maybe it's gonna make things worse. I don't 618 00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:45.400 know. Yeah, we'll see. Like, as a gamer, I believe 619 00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:46.519 AI is going to play a big role. I would love to be able 620 00:40:46.519 --> 00:40:50.760 to go in a metaverse and be like, hey, can you make this 621 00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:53.119 look like Halo? Can you make give me you know, give me these 622 00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:59.360 attributes from these games and it just automatically creates an environment based off of me 623 00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:02.360 manifest my will. I think that's really cool, right. You know, 624 00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:06.840 one thing I will say, Tony, and this is not profound. Humans 625 00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:08.519 want to have fun. Man, We all want to have fun. And 626 00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:13.719 that's what I think that the metaverse really allows is a platform for not only 627 00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:17.800 education and opportunity to see really cool things Like I remember showing my nephews Google 628 00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:22.239 Earth when I was when I was younger and be like you go anywhere with 629 00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:23.840 this thing, look at this, you know, blowing their minds. And 630 00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:27.440 I think the metaverse is going to make that seem like you know, table 631 00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:30.039 stakes. Oh yeah, all right, I got some rapid fire questions for 632 00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:37.760 you? First is favorite food on doo? Favorite musician or band? I 633 00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:39.760 don't really have one. I just like electronic music, so I don't really 634 00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:43.239 follow anybody. I know. It's a terrible answer. I would say Nine 635 00:41:43.239 --> 00:41:45.840 Inch Nails is pretty good, but that was my angry phase when I was 636 00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:52.239 a teenager. Favorite movie Matrix hands down. Oh yeah. Our favorite book, 637 00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:57.840 History and Power of Mind is the book that changed my change my world. 638 00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:00.840 Written in nineteen oh two. It's a very esoteric books. It's not 639 00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:04.559 a light read, but it's my favorite book. Sits next to my bed. 640 00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:07.119 I'll check that out. And when you're not working in consolation, what 641 00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:12.039 are you doing for fun? Hanging out with my best friend, which is 642 00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:15.199 my wife. We've been married thirteen years and we're just two peas in a 643 00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:16.480 pod. We love playing games. Like I said, but a lot of 644 00:42:16.519 --> 00:42:21.599 people don't know, I'm an electronic musician of twenty five years, fascinated with 645 00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:24.800 synthesizers, drum machines, samplers. I know the history of every piece of 646 00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:29.159 equipment you basically can imagine, but nobody cares. If somebody is like, 647 00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:30.440 hey, wow, you have a TV three or three, It's like I 648 00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:32.800 fall to my knees and I start crying. I just want to hug them 649 00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:37.440 that they actually know what it is. So I love making electronic music. 650 00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:42.119 That's awesome, Benjamin Pleasure, and I definitely have to have you back on 651 00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:47.639 because you guys are the government's blockchain, as it would seem, so I 652 00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:52.000 got to keep a close ear to what you guys are doing. So but 653 00:42:52.039 --> 00:42:54.079 thank you so much for joining me. Heck yeah, Tony, thanks for 654 00:42:54.840 --> 00:43:00.000 having us come on. And I love love that smiley candor of yours. 655 00:42:59.719 --> 00:43:01.320 You're a good man, so thanks for doing what you do for you, 656 00:43:01.480 --> 00:43:02.840 me and the industry. My friend,