Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome back to the plan The Apes Retrospective,
the penultimate episode of the Planet Apes Retrospective. My goodness, we've went
on quite a journey. We're almost nearing the end of it. I'm the
clown Prince of Apes trust now, and I'm joined by I'm the writer kirklam
Patzer. I am the brother Tynorfield Brother. Okay, so yes, we
have done every Apes of the originals. We did the remake last week or
whenever you listen to this if you're on Patreon, could have been again this
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So we thank you very much and you can do all that everything you know
it's down below. So we've reviewed all Apes films and we are now here
to dawn. So this is the second one of the trilogy. Button not
directed by Rupert Wyatt. He left because I finally had the trivia where they
gave him a date and he's like I don't think I can hit that date,
so like I'll bow out, and then he bowed out. They got
Matt Reeves and then they end up delaying the movie like a different date,
so like, come on, you can, but this is like Matt Reeves
like, uh, pre this and Batman, like at this point he had
done Cloverfield and Let Me In, which I like those movies, but they
weren't like movies. They weren't God. They're not God here though, But
I just wonder if maybe it's like the building stage. I just wonderup why
it's like a little little salty, you know, like, oh, we
can't delay it, so sorry whiskey just staring at the well. Yeah,
because like it don't get me wrong, it's my experens. Like I think
both Reeves movies are better than Rise. But it's just like I feel like
it's been named like Matt Reeves' trilogy, even though like he didn't do that
first one, but it's just it's just like been adopted into his filmography of
like you must have did it. So it's just like and like ruper Rye,
like he's not been up too much. I remember watching the movie a
couple of years ago, me and Emily saw it. I can't John Goodman
was in. It was like an alien pandemic movie. We were the only
ones there. I can't remember. It's something red. I'll get it after.
It was like a decent enough movie. But yeah, this is Matt
Reeves coming in hot and heavy. Uh, Tarfield, What is your experience
the first time you see us? Did you see the theaters? Did you
see this another time? And then? What are your thoughts about it?
Right now? I can't remember the first time I saw this, if it
was in theaters or not, but I have seen it in theaters because I
think I mentioned this in the last me and Briggs. We did both this
and the previous one in the theater. It was a huge marathon leaning up
to an early like two day release for War for the Planet of the Apes.
So Matt Reeves movies, you guys watched back to back. Yeah,
that was all of them, every single one. Even Yeah, the Matt
Mark Wehlberg one. I would love to have watch, well, the Mark
Wilber one or like Beneath the Apes with Briggs case I remember, I do
miss Briggs when he really hated a movie, he just felt disgusted, like
you could just tell and there was no again through to them. It's just
like, yeah, you're this movie like they the movie was not good to
him and that was it. So I would love to have watched one of
these with him or Dylan's dad, because I feel like some of those bad
ones I would have loved to see. I can say with these, there
is he definitely multiple multiple times there were tears, tears coming down those cheeks.
The same with me too, but right, yeah swamp ass uh.
But yeah, this so this film for me, it's a huge improvement over
the last one. I love the introduction to just more of like the world
building here and and the idea that, oh, are humans extinct at this
point are they not? And just kind of dealing with things and and the
storyline too and getting this this new problem for for ape characters, whereas the
first one is them just trying to like discover themselves and get out of lockdown
under human control and just live their life. But in this one, it's
interesting the apes in the background come on, but this one it's it's neat
to see the division that actually like pops in between the apes and what you
see in the previous these Apes men, they're all over my house while you
see well you see sortain sort of sort of division happening in the the old
Apes films, not really to this regard, but it's usually just like the
chimpanzees and the gorillas that are kind of like on different ideological paths I guess
you could say, in the war and all that kind of stuff. And
this one it's very very cut throat, bloodthirsty, like just with Coba and
what he does. And there's so many moments where I love the score as
well. The score it hit so many peak moments in this movie, but
there's other moments where it's just quiet and once seen in particular with Colba,
that's just man like. Even I feel like as an audience member you're just
kind of like nonchalantly just like like chuckling with it, but it just turns
to read instantly it's like, holy fuck, Like this is crazy. But
yeah, there are lots of moments in here that I get in teary eyed,
and lots of moments I just love with the action and just the the
intensity and yeah, it's just this is a really really good movie. Yeah
go next, I'll say Kirkland stuff because he's never seen it, so you
know, I'll leave a little anticipation. But yeah, I saw this in
the theaters. I feel I feel like this one of the last movies I
saw before it became a man, before like I moved out, because I
feel like I saw it either family with the family condition. I'll let you
move out if you watch this movie. Yeah, but I think it's one
of those where it's just like when I lived at home, it felt like
me and my mom, sister and Auntie were always movies together. And then
that is like we tried to sometimes where that like quickly dissipates when you know,
his sister gets older and everyone has lives and stuff. But I think
that was when the last of that era of just like seeing those movies opening
weekend, I think what is there too? So I remember my thoughts back
then are the exact same thoughts I have now. This is an incredible movie.
I haven't made a list. I don't know why, like I can
name you, like, oh, my top ten horror movies or comic book
movies. I haven't done it with sci fi, and I should because I
still put the first plan of the Apes up there, and it's tough because
the Apes that first movie is fantastic. It said, it's the groundwork.
It definitely tackles a bit more like i'd say, kind of social issues.
There's social issues in this one, but that one's really heavily face on tackling
racism right with. This has aspects to it, but it does get a
bit more war driven, and that's where it is more. It's funny because
the next one is called War. But what I love about this film is
all these characters, for the most part, have urgency, and they have
storylines that all make sense, even to like the very end, once he
starts to really turning, Okay, I can't be with him, but for
about two thirds of this movie, you can completely see where he's coming from.
You can see where Gary Oldman's coming from, where they just got power
back and Apes are invaying their fucking city. Yeah, why wouldn't you want
to kill these fucking Apes? Like? They don't make him like, oh
man, I hate these monkeys. He's just like, our town's being invaded
right now. If I can set off this ball to kill them, I'm
gonna do this. Caesar, He's just trying his best to lead everybody,
Malcolm, same things, trying his best. Maybe the like the guy that
with the shaved head who's kind of idiot human you know, he's maybe a
weak character, but like he need those right and to me, he's like
kind of a reflection of Coba in that same way. So that's why I
love that there's so many different storylines going on, but it never feels too
like mashed up. It doesn't feel overwhelming. It feels like they all go
together. I think all of them get their right amount. I think,
unlike Will, Malcolm and the human characters feel warranted and needed in this movie.
Where Will we said, like, Okay, he's good for the setup,
but near the end of the act he's just running along the the Golden
gate Bridge and what's he doing here? Right where Malcolm you never feel he's
out of plays the action. This movie is great and yeah, I don't
know where it is, but this is just a damn good movie. This
is uh, Like, I don't I could just say one of the great
sci fi means all the time, there might be more than it might not
be in the top ten because there's you know, we have film for like
eighty years, so there's tons of movies, but it's up there, and
it's one of those that I'm kind of just I don't know why I forget,
because this is what I think made me go, oh yeah. When
Matt Reeves was announced for Batman, it's like, oh, we're good.
But every time I watch this movie, including this time, I kind of
just forget how good it is. I think the effects are even better looking.
Of course, there's a few times where it's like, Okay, clearly
not a monkey there, but some of those close ups, man, it
is looking like they just got a move. They like you're watching like a
nature doc and stuff. So no, this is a top tier movie.
This is still like and for me, it's just like we'll get into war,
but like this War and The Batman, like man think about like those
three films back to back. Matt Reeves is just like he's cooking with fire.
Well, I guess you always cook the fire. He's cooking with gasoline.
Now He's just like, and I can't wait to see what we get
with The Batman two. Hopefully James gunn DCU, don't don't don't let this
skull away, you know so, But yeah, this is is like such
a great, great movie, and I love a lot of the other Apes
movies, but this is definitely like head and shoulders above a lot of them.
So I throw it over to mister pats Or who you said you'd never
you'd seen Rise, but he'd never gone to Dawn and wore obnestly war will
talk about next time, but where are you on Dawn? Yeah, this
was This was a really exciting one to jump into, just for the fact
that I had never seen it before. I had seen like most of all
of the Apes movies before this one. It's been a while since i'd revisit
them before this retro, so it's been fun to just do the whole build
up leading into it. And uh yeah, I had high expectations for this
one. I think I probably heard your guys as just you know, brief
little mini reviews in passing and like just in past but like also just people
in my day to day that I had asked them on like what Planet of
the Apes movies they had seen, and they always said don was their favorite,
like like definitely, definitely, Uh, just for I don't know,
maybe just the complexity of like the the faction's motivations and some of My favorite
stories are the ones that it is somewhere in the gray area, like it
isn't just a super clear this is the good guys, this's the bad guys,
and this is the story like like everybody does kind of have their own
motivations that make sense and you can totally understand their side of the story.
And you know, a great example of that is the Great Princess MONTONOK movie
from Studio Ghibli that everybody should see that that is one of my fair moves
of all time. And everybody in that movie has their own very reasonable motivation
on why they're trying to get their goal. But you know, maybe we'll
do that retro in the future. We'll see. But for this movie,
the prod you're gonna see Mike Crack, you know, do a twenty five
dollars Like, who's this guy? You just subscratched for one month? That's
it. Never hear from him, Mike ox Long one of those. But
no, sorry, I'm going on tangent here. But for Donna the Plant
of the Apes Man, this movie what a step up even from Rise,
Like I I really did enjoy Rise. Uh, there's some minor issues with
with with that movie, but for Dawn, Like it is just such a
such a strong step up. I think for all the reasons that you guys,
guys are already listed with just how good this movie looks, as well
as the you know, the reasonable motivations from some of our antagonist characters.
I think the fact that it has kind of like a handful of little minifactions
throughout make it really interesting, especially when like we go from their point of
view, whether it's like Gary Oldman talking to Jason Clark's character on just like
how I mean you use the word Travis of just like the desperation that they
have, Like it's not like, Okay, we'll find a way to kind
of work around this, Like they are forced to kind of meet this this
force head on, and like if they don't, it's it's extinction. And
it's kind of similar in the ape size, right, like they're super defensive.
So I just like the build up of it. I don't know what
the run time is. I'm assuming it's over two hours, but twenty or
something, I don't get it. I think it really just like is smooth
though with the pacne like it doesn't really feel like a long movie. I
watched this and War back to back, So it was like one long movie
heavy. It was heavy. It was like I was doing a Lord of
the Rings marathon or something. But I really liked it that way. Sorry,
ten to ten Okay, so probably two hours with credits pretty much,
so it's not not not super long. Where I think War is that like
two and a half hour one that's a bit more so. Yeah, combine
them together and I had a nice solid four and a half hour you're like
brigs in the theaters. But it was a great time. It was a
great time. It's not like it was a slog or anything, but no,
I I think it was really cool to see. Also just kind of
like the evolution of the the Apes from Rise and just like how much of
a like a strong faction they are now, like they have like their own
little city. Obviously, their numbers have just been they've been doing some you
know, monkey fun in the wee hours, multiplying their mamm what is it
you, Maavie or nothing but mammals exactly. I also just like absolutely love
the biomes that we're in and in these in these later Apes movies of just
like in like the Lush Forest, it's very different than what the previous ones
have done with their man, you know on branches. Yeah, San Francis,
I said this to Emily, like, oh, watch Lord of the
Rings. And I didn't say this there about this one because she didn't watch
it. But older I get. It's just like that idea of always being
off somewhere in the wild, as long as I have the resources and like
could live by, Like I could do it. I could say goodbye it
all the attack and everything. It's like same the movies. It's like,
of course there's some movies I want to see, but like if I don't
movies and whatever, but if I do, it's like we've got a lot
of good movies, you know, Like I'm pretty I'm satisfied. There's a
lots of movies I still have't even seen yet. You know. It's like
I'd be fine to go in the in the branches, you know, doing
a podcast, which is your home theater up in the trees. Some movies,
this is the feet of the point we're supposed to see free. I
still need to see The Batman too, you know what I'm saying. But
uh no, I I don't know. I'm gonna try and keep it a
little short so we can just dive into the details of it. But this
was a really, really great first viewing of this movie, and I definitely
think it met the expectations. There's some minor issues I have, maybe with
not necessarily Coba's motivation, but just certain actions that he does. They just
seem like, wow, Okay, we're just going straight to it, and
it kind of just I think worked in order to move the plot along less
so than like it really making sense. But you know, we'll get there
when we get there, Like nokba no no, all no, no,
that Caesar gets a nose. No, he gets that because when he's beating
the guy, the buzzhead guy, when he has a shotgun. We're just
kidding in the movie. So if you haven't seen it, you know it's
ten years now, go go catch up. But so spoilers abound when the
buzz guy when he sneaks in the gun and uh Cornelius uh finds it like
baby Cornelius. He Caesar beats him down the shotgun and Malcolm says that he
says no, Caesar no. So there's always some ape and the no treatment,
and Caesar takes a little better by just chucking the shotgun out. But
yeah, there's I actually don't think it happens in War. I don't think
it does. But yeah, I definitely got some all those flashbacks. Anytime
I hear now in my life, I just hear no. If I hear
no, oh, I know, yeah, no, GWe no like checking
or heard a look at me like all those what did you say? You
tell me no, father zoom in on her face like all the other kids.
He said no, no, no, I didn't mean to swear.
Go check out Valve for the plan in the eighties. But yeah, let's
start with Cob because Cobe to me when we do our rankings, it's like
he's like, I'm not trying to swell, but like he's for sure he's
no lower I think than two for me as far as villains goes in this
series, because man, he brings it. Shout to Toby Keble, who
Toby Keble an actor who's just been in a lot of stuff that never got
to be like he got to be doctor Doom in that twenty twenty fifteenth and
as for like, yeah, he's had these roles that just never really work
out. But he's like a really underrated actor. He's a great black mirror
episode. But and also yeah, there's some some visual facts, but most
of it is getting their performance capture. And I love the setup of I
was surprised when we watched Wise because I didn't watch Rise that I've seen Don
the most out of these three, and when Cole was already there. So
I think it's a great continuation of they showed that first movie. Watched them
almost back to back, how he is a bit more violent and he's a
bit more blood thirsty. Right, so already between movies it's like, you
know, introducing new apes, like this was set up as this is a
character that is a bit more okay, if I need to kill a human,
I will, and it's great too, Like he's the one that's most
banged up. He has scars all over his body. So that moment went.
Caesar said something about like, oh, we just got to let the
humans work, and he does like human work human and it's great because like
you can see how the other apes would agree with it, because him and
Maurice had that Sorry Caesar, Maurice had that conversation about you know, your
experience is pretty much nothing but good with human where a lot of these apes
have nothing but bad with them, and that's where it's like, that's where
Caesar, I think, is a little in a good way for the Braggs
human. Yeah, anyone watched scott Father Part one, Part two, part
three, all back to back and I did on the Sunday, Yeah,
fuck you guys ever played Donkey Kong, but love Donkey Kong. He is
like a little naive that he doesn't really even then like he spent those two
days in the center. It's like that his thoughts just jumped to Will and
lift his name, so like he is a little naive to just think,
yeah, it's the humans like they mean well for the most part, and
he I think there's a good bounce with him because he does thread the humans
and say you gotta be strong. But I think the whole dichotomy of how
the switch happens with Coba and getting power, I think it's all there and
it's really well done all and I think the ending of the third act,
there's a bunch of other stuff that happens before the turn, but I think
it's just it all makes sense as far as where Coba is coming from another
apes too, because obviously Coba's not alone, right he makes the turn,
and even that happens with war where some people stay loyal to Koba, So
it's like it wasn't a oh just him and they went crazy. Clearly there
are other apes that are like, yeah, like fuck these humans, like
why do we even work because they don't they don't have to work with them,
like what do they benefit? Right, But then Caesar has a good
point of well it could cause war, and it's like again this great push
and pull between all the characters, no, one hundred percent, and like
having Coba be the most visually like fucked up of the all the apes.
It's it's so interesting because it's not like at the start of the movie he's
straight up like, Okay, we gotta go hunt down any humans, like
like there's probably some out there. Like he it's not like he is the
super like war tyrannical type character, but he knows like how far the humans
can go in the negative direction, and like an important the movie starts with
them shooting when they so it's not like they went after they saw a human,
like let's get them. The humans enact violence first, right, so
cos yeah, exactly what the fuck? And a humans the next time we
see him after like five years are shooting at us, you know. And
I also love that it's not like it's set up that he's trying to overthrow
Caesar like in the beginning, like he's super super loyal this Caesar and act
they are. That's his right hand guy, and it's just totally he's always
like covid do is like you're right. Like, I love that there's no
signs of, oh, I want to be the big guy. It's like,
nope, we're in this together. Yeah. And I love the dynamic
between what is it blue Eyes, that's that's his first son, right,
uh, Caesar's Yeah, like the dynamic between him and Koba, it's like
a like a nice, I don't know, loving uncle type relationship that they
have some one on one moments. And when he gets fucked up by the
bear, it's like, you know, scars are a nice symbol for I
don't remember what he said, but strength. There's something along those lines.
But he just had like a lot of nice moments. So when the turn
happens, I feel like it's it's that much more like raw because it's not
like a straight up evil character doing an evil acting. You're like, well,
of course that he would do the evil act there, but once the
humans start to get a little bit closer and and he's just you know,
completely against just even even being like open to the idea of kind of cooperating
with him, Like he knows the full extent of what they can go.
And I think all of that stuff was was fantastic, And even the moments
when when he starts to like be a little bit conniving and like do some
things like you know, before that, before that, before that as she
killed ash rocket soun right, yeah, so no, but like when I
can't remember what part it was at, but when he finds like the human
gun, and then he doesn't tell Caesar that, and then like one of
the other apes is like you didn't tell him that. He's like, well,
you're not going to tell him that either, Like I did, like
how those little yeah, yeah, like all of that's but like it felt
natural, It felt like it was it was paced. Well, it's it's
not like it just happened randomly after they had like a nice bonding moment.
So it still doesn't feel like it's going to be like, oh, he's
using these guns to get the Apes. It's just kind of like he's keeping
on the down low for now because Caesar are on the best of terms,
so like he's doesn't know what to do this information yet, So no exactly.
So all of all of the stuff with Coba in that sense, I
think was ten out of ten perfect. I absolutely love this character. And
yeah no, I love the fact that he is just probably the most extreme
out of all the apes because he has the most extreme memories of him,
Like he's so like he's like blind in one eye, like he's got these
just terrible scars all over him. And yeah, no, I like all
that stuff. Some of the issues I had is mostly just like I don't
even think it's necessarily his decisions, but it's just like how they did like
kind of the air quote coup on Caesar when he like he is the one
that just has like the M sixteen it is just like the assassin and then
just just drops the gun with the hat and then he just like slithers off
as if like no one had a chance to see him. Like that was
a little bit weaker for me. I think it could have been better if
we actually had like a human be the one that actually kills Caesar because then
it because then it's just showing that, like the downfall of this cooperation it
does fall on the humans. I guess you could make the argument that it's
like, well, they're also showing that the sorry, the apes are capable
of doing stuff like that as well, which I do see, But I
just think the actual details of how that scene went on was a little bit
clunky for me. It was just like, well, of course it's Cova,
that's the sniper assassin, and then slithers off and then comes back around.
It's like, what what happened? Oh no, we gotta go because
it takes a long look too, like he just he's in his own home
and he looks down and he sees COVID just on the true just like yeah,
and Caesar so like hmm, like he's it's in his hand. And
I guess that's the point that maybe you just take it as he would never
think that the ape is gonna be true that to him, And that's where
they do say that when they get back to Will's house, of like their
apes can be just as bad as human. I thought we were better,
So I do, like I agree there is some clunk to it because they
do that, they set the fire, and and then even then it's just
like I didn't even know if the fire is like necessary, you know,
like as that's where I think they almost go too overboard with Coba a little
bit being evil as far as like what what is the fire? Like it's
just showing the humans that I guess attack more and just a greate paranorma.
So that's fine, but you know, like adding on to that stuff,
since we're just talking about some of the things that I didn't love about that
was specifically like when he does kill ash there, and I just thought it
was so crazy to me that the apes just were not surprised by that because
they didn't know that he shot Caesar. So this would have been the first
instance that an ape actually kills an ape and they're just like, Okay,
yeah, you just tossed Ash over and I guess we're following COVID now.
It should have been like a human said the no word, like like it
should have been that extreme. I I personally feel like like I think it
should have been like a almost like a mini civil war amongst the apes when
that moment happened, because that's like the one law that they shouldn't do,
and he just tossed an ape over the ledge and it's just like, this
is what we're doing now, and like, I don't know, it just
didn't feel that significant, even though it really should have been because that was
the first time that they would have seen an ape kill in another ape.
Yeah, So that was another one that that bothered me. But I think
I was of two minds where at first I was like, ah, like
yeah, why wouldn't anyone not do anything? But even just like yeah,
like another group of epes, like even Blue Eyes, like you feel like
he started to be like Okay, something's not right here with Koa, you
know. And but I guess where it works for me later on is then
they show all these apes locked up. So I just take it as I
don't know when that locking up happened, by just taking it as like,
well, we can't say anything or we're just gonna get, you know,
in prison or also killed. So they were just scared because they're not Also,
many these apes are not warriors, right, Like That's why I like
the first scene when they go to war blue Eyes is looking around. They
got that gorilla Luca looking around like it's they're kind of just like amazed,
and like I actually either way around, they're horrified what they're seeing. Even
though it's like apes killing humans, it's still just like the act of them
doing these things is like something they've never done before. So I think it's
just that they're in such a state of shock that, you know, I
guess Ash had to go and that's what Coba feels. But there should have
been maybe a bit more of not rise. But like I said, I
guess because more recent all of them get imprisoned, I kind of headcamed,
like, Okay, they just didn't they got scared and didn't know what to
say. But yeah, and then even then, I don't know how I
feel about COVID, but that they gotta make them the clear villain, right,
and that's where he's just gone. He goes too far at the end.
So I think it does a good job at showing how fast this level
of hate can just kind of supersede over making the right decision. Power corrupts
well, yeah, power crops and just them all going like riot mode and
all that kind of stuff. But yeah, Coba is just terrifying villain when
he plays like a dumb monky and he strolls in there and he's laughing with
them with the bottle, and then all of a sudden, it just cuts
to him just swinging the gun like predator style, like gun guns them down
like it's effortless. That first shot though, and he just like swings it
up and shoots the guy. It's like a great like you don't know what's
gonna happen, And then cut to like thirty minutes there when he's on a
horse, two light machine guns and don't both hands just going for it.
I don't know how you like, you're in this world. You're just trying
to survive. You just got power back on your cheering. You're thinking,
all this is where fucking turn it around and you look out your window double
fisting ape on a horse. Just especially like at least Gary Oldman, a
couple other people the control center like have an idea like, hey, Malcolm's
working on the power, but there's these apes that could be an issue.
Gary Oldman specifically says, no one knows about this, right, don't tell
them. So the people of this city of whatever broken down San Fran,
like you said, they go from man the powers back on things are looking
up to why are hundreds of apes? That changes though, because I mean
didn't did they not? I thought that people knew because when Caesar shows that
strength of force initially not with war, but like they're all there, that
was that was a fucking bad right, I forgot they show up and that
is a good scene. But again I guess they just would not be Uh,
that's not would be the thought, right, Get you're right there,
like you're in the bathroom at the time, you missed the whole and you
see them. Yeah, war, but like yeah, even then if you
think the powanon, it's like, yeah, highest of highs to the lowest
of lows, and they like that's one thing again for the like how horrid
the movie is in a good way, Like some of those the apes get
slaughter and the humans gets slaughter. There's a lot of casualties both ways.
And Coba is just like he's so relentless of making the apes go. There's
even one more where an ape is on a horse and he's not like doing
the best job on it, so Coba just like fucking rips them off and
takes the horse from him and does it himself. So it's just like it's
a full on, just gnarly war going on again. That's why I completely
if you're Gary oldman. That's what I like is because obviously we'll get to
war and that's a bit more straight up. Hey, this is the full
and bad human. You're just piece of shit. You hate him right,
Like, there's no reason I would hate Gary one because they do a great
job. Like I think they show these are a good leader. Whatever.
He didn't want them know about the apes, but like I think that was
the right call. Like it, like, I don't know, you don't
want to scare people. It's an army of apes that could turn They said
up great stuff with his sons, which trivia, those were actually photos of
his real kids, so there you go. But like I think that was
good as far as like until the movie, you don't know why he's lost,
and now he's like taking it upon himself to I gotta get humanity right,
not even for him, just so like other people could go have kids
and do these things and all he knows at this point, Malcolm's probably fucking
dead, and sure Malcolm shows up. But once Malcolm shows up, it's
it's gone to a ten. It's all like they've taken over their tower.
They're killing probably men, women, chilled and everything. So it's like,
I can't blame Gary Oldman at any point. Of course, when Malcolm's there
with a gun, like I thought it was very bold for Malcolm to pull
gun on him and not even try to just talk to him first. Malcolm's
first move is grabbing the gun, and I was like, I don't know,
because right away, as Gary Oldman, I'd be like, what the
fuck? Man? Like, I understand completely, And I think they do
a great job of making that leader the human Leader's motivations all makes sense of,
Yeah, why wouldn't he blow this bomb because he thinks this could be
the end of human race right here? And he's so I love that character
for such a mier character. And sometimes you talk about the humans and they
try and make them fifty to fifty, but they kind of lean one way,
like too much. I think this's like a perfect down the line character
who also is just missing a lot of the facts because he's just not there
right. So I did think he was still like his like some of his
decisions, they did seem a little bit more extreme than maybe it would have
been warranted. But also you could definitely make the argument that it's because he's
in this position of like he has all these people depending on him, like
he is, you know, like the fucking he's the president pretty much,
Yeah, he's the mayor of this little makeup town. And like like when
when the apes come and everybody's just freaking out, like rightfully, so that
would scare the shit out of me. You got this age just talking to
us on on a fucking horse. We just barely got our bart. I
don't even think they have the power back actually at that point. Yeah,
so, and and he's just giving like a speech to basically just rally the
troops, like just say whatever you can to kind of keep the morale somewhat
reasonable. However, like like my and like, I don't even think it's
a negative thing. It's just he shows to be a little bit more extreme
when he's talking to Malcolm. And this is like right after he does that
speech with the bullhorn, and Malcolm's like, you know, like what if
it doesn't go like that way? And it's like, well, then I
guess we're going to war, like like like that's kind of what their options
are at that point in time, because this is for the survival of the
human race. Like clearly San Francisco got decimated. There's like one percent of
the population probably less than that's still remaining, and uh, and like they
have to make these hard decisions. They are at this like armory type location.
They do have firepower, which is what he was relaying to the people
there, So they are equipped, even though you know not all of them
are soldiers. But I did like just again like the the dire straits of
the situation that's at hand for for the human side for sure. And you
know, like maybe if they had a chance to like have a diplomatic conversation
in that moment, as opposed to Caesar just being like don't ever show your
face and in the woods again, Like that's that because obviously Caesar is a
very reasonable leader in the sense like he heard Malcolm out, he'd let he
let them go to the generator. So if they just had a little bit
more time to kind of explain the situation, but you know, to that
point, you would still have the Cobas of the world like super against it.
I'm sure the humans have, you know, their own Coba. They
do. The bald guy that that shot the the gun is an ash that
he had shot a man just getting the fucking ass hand of the stick.
This whole gets shot by a human, gets tossed off the fucking cliff by
Coba. Yeah, because blue eyes are out hunting and then he finds them
and that's the guy's uh ideas just to pull gun on him. But COVID
get him back later. Scary way to go out, just like a cigarette.
Here's that music, same thing. He's likeing man and things are looking
up and COVID just that rips that throat out that kill move too. The
apes do where it's basically how Kingpin killed U, you know, like Peter
Parker and the multi verses, just fucking slammed down, Like what a way
to go just these giant batons of arms just crushing you like fuh. I
usually do that to my laundry bins to get the laundry down. I'm not
joking all the time. I will do that and think about the apes because
I can in your washing machine in the bands get more. Emily walks in
trust know how to do launder kids. She said no to her phone.
Yeah, no, because we talk about that's been something consistent. I remember
the two thousand and one remake where Michael Clark Duncan fucked up his former friend
with like just that, Like he's just like man like because I would it
like that just must be cement blocks, just beaving your chest, you know.
And again, oh god, that's what Caesar did to Coba, right
when you had to fucking humble him, like just beating down on him.
I'm like, oh, oh my god. The first time you have the
humans there are just like what the no? They altern Yeah, Coba,
He's lucky. Caesar hurt later on in the movie because Coba got his ass
handed to him that first go around. And I think it fit for the
story because it did make sense of Okay, Coba the apes. There might
be apes with them, but clearly more apes are still Caesar, so they'd
need some big event to turn. So that's not happening. I can't beat
Caesar one on once. That's not happening. So I do I understand the
conclusion of I have to frame the humans and just shoot him to a sniper
rifle or whatever in a tree somewhere like hi, because he just couldn't beat
him, didn't have the politics and he didn't have the muscle. He's not
uh Cooba's island, but he didn't. Caesar's just skilled, you know.
I love I absolutely love the moment too, when Caesar rides from the ashes
like the black panther, like everybody thinks he's dead, comes back there and
Cob is just there with his with his big ar rifle, and then you
know, like Caesar's weak, and then it's like Coba is weaker, and
then it kind of taunts him to toss his gun to the side and just
fucking fight him. Monoy mono. I just I love the setup of that.
It's just I don't know anytime you just have like the fallen king rise
from the ashes, just come reclaim his throat, and I just I'm such
a sucker for that story, like that cool set piece. You're just a
pie, you're surrounded by apes yor just watching this all go down. I
like Coba when he's fall Oh Ape, don't kill ape. It puts his
hand up and you no Ape and then kicks him. I don't know if
they needed the whole cgi like platform to break to like okay, he can
just fall man like, Like I appreciate the detail he like hits the cable
and then like flips back takes out the crane. But I was like,
you know, some anime, I had to spend like three weeks on that,
Like you've been like, just make co A fall. You know he's
gonna die. It's fine, But yeah, I know Coba was no more
and he was. And the other part of the relationship I forgot to mention
too, was I love that for about two thirds of the movie, blue
Eyes trusts Coba more than Caesar, just because he doesn't. Also like,
because again, his best friend just got shot by humans, so why you're
pitching the wrong thing? Like, no, trust me, humans are okay,
you know. And then later on it's great too, and he goes
back to the Will's house and he sees the photo. He starts to understand
why his father would have these connections. But I love that dynamic of blue
Eyes is very torn. He's like a teen and he's just trying to figure
out his way in life. And you have, you know, co and
Coba, Who's who's he's been told his whole life to trust. So it's
like, at this point, why should just stopped trusting it? Right?
Caesar does the whole you gotta listen to me because I'm your dad. But
like classic teen Years be like, well fuck that, Like again, these
humans are up to no good. You know. They snuck in a gun,
they shot an ape, so they made all those I think things make
a lot of sense for a teenager type character who's very lost in like a
war torn sort of situation, and that was a good done that Bank I
really liked, especially when he was around, because he was a character that
was really like, oh, this is really wrong. Once Covid did the
full turn the war everything, like Ash was like, okay, same thing.
This is a guy that Ashes got shot and that's why it's kind of
like, Okay, I understand where Coba's coming from. To jump to a
few days there where Copa's killing Ash, Like, hey, I clearly back
the wrong dad or surrogate dad here, you know. For Blue Eyes too,
like throughout the movie, I really liked the kind of position that he
was in in the sense of like he is a young ape, like he
still has so much to learn. He's he's trying to, you know,
just just become a nice strong foundation of an ape that can make proper decisions.
But like he still is trying to figure out what is the right and
wrong, And as you're laying out there, like he is mostly siding with
Coball just because of what he's seen in his own experience, right Like he's
seeing Ash get shot, He's seeing these apes go against their or sorry,
he's seen these humans go against their word and and be deceitful and up until
like it's not until later that he actually sees the more positive sides of the
human traits. And it's funny because throughout the movie he just kind of has
this like dumbfounded look on him where he's just like like super puzzled, very
very curious individual. But I just like what it is because like you could
have had maybe the more extreme type son of of one that like is essentially
Coba and is this like super aggressor, but he is super hesitant. Does
seem like he's like, I don't know, he's not super quick to just
make a decision, like like it seems like he's taking it in and trying
to process it. And it's even shown when he finds Malcolm, when Malcolm
is in fucking ground zero, he is in such a scary situation and the
apes are just going crazy and he's stuck in that one house and then he
gets stared down by by blue Eyes there and and and then like blue Eyes
just shows a little bit more but like or sorry, a little bit more
of hesitation, I guess of because he could have just shot Malcolm right then
and there, like like he there's no real reason why he wouldn't have other
than the fact that he's seen Coba go a little bit too far. And
maybe it's like and that's the extreme. I I don't think that's actually the
right way. And he is a little bit hisitant there, but up until
that point, like he thinks Caesar is still dead right like like he's he
is, I don't know, super unsure of everything. But but just overall,
I liked the whole Blue Eyes. I don't know just where he was
throughout this movie. Yeah, and that's why I liked about that turn,
is he made that choice before Malcolm told him his dad was alive. Because
of course, if you say that, well, that makes it very easy
for a character to be like, well, I'm not going to be bad
anymore. My dad's live. But it was like showed that he already had
that pat Yeah, exactly, so then Malcolm kids like, oh, your
dad's by that you're here. He's alive. By the way, Now,
in real life, I would have fucking led with that, like, hey,
your dad's life. I don't, you know, don't don't even think
about shooting me. But I think that's good for the Blue Eyes character to
have that con to be Okay, yeah, this is I'm not really down
for killing this humans like I maybe, well, I don't want to work
with I think like Bludys, like I don't want to work with him on
the round. They can be bad, but I also don't want to just
massacre these people. Where Coba is all for he's fucking thanous. He's not
half in this population, he's fully extincting it. And I think it was
really good to show like him being with Koba until he actually saw the reality
of what the COVID decision was, where like he is just going full extreme,
you'd fucking throwing apes off of cliffs and like just murdering these humans that
like, maybe we're going a little bit too far with this, but he
has that realization like in the heat of battle, not not beforehand, which
you know, that's how you realize these things is by actually going through the
experience and maybe Caesar's lessons weren't going through to him until he can actually see
the like what Caesar was talking about. And I don't know, it's just
a really good mini growth of the character. I think, just within this
contained story. Anything on Blue Eyes tailor you want to go somewhere else?
Ah, yeah, I I just think that I don't have much to say
the side no blue Eyes, No, No, he's he was interesting and
yeah, you just I think I just wonder if Dylan ends upjoying for the
apes review like just the newest one. Yeah, I think that he just
creates an interesting dynamic where you have a bunch of apes that have just been
a lot into this one category, a bunch of this category like pro and
con for like fighting and like standing with the humans. So I think that
having his turmoil on the inside is very interesting and allows us to kind of
see that, Yeah, that's the kind of like choice that he has to
make and just kind of choosing between someone that I don't want to say admires,
but like he was taken advantage of and Coba preyed on him. I'm
sure there was a real does admire he looks like he's like the cool uncle
in a way, like I know that's like making it very simple, but
it is like the oh, my dad's a hard ass, but like he
knows, he knows what's up. Yeah, So I think that it's just
seeing the transition of the characters is very unique. But just to touch upon
that scene when they're all gathered at the house, it always gets me.
It always makes me tear up. And Caesar's all wounded and ship and just
gets the cam corder and Jason or James Franco probably got paid a pretty penny
for this, but he didn't. You didn't get paid for it. They
didn't even ask him. I think it's just because they already own the footage.
She was fine, but yeah, he's like, can we just like
use footage of him and then not ask him? No, because we did.
We listen if in Adrenochrome two, brother in adrenochrome too. If we
get James Franco, then yes, and adrenal Chrome three we could use that
footage. But no, we don't have any footage that we have created with
James Franco, nor do I want to work with James Franco at this you
have to create the footage, then well yeah, but it has to also
not be AI footage like you're making it sound like we like crazy, We're
on the street and we see like also using nase Franco, we see the
rock walking down the street. We film a shot of adrenochrone, and then
we just as he's walking in the background, like you did with a scene
with a car driving by. It does that count? Can we use it?
But because the thing is the scene driving that car driving by, you
can barely make up the ball. You can't see the person whatever. It's
just like a quick frow. It's like the rocks it was back towards the
camera. Yeah we can. We can wear wearing that hat in the theater.
It's like, I wonder who that guy is. Wouldn't shut up in
the theater if we shove off the rock from behind, then yeah, maybe
we can use it. But much like just like even like think about prank
shows and whatnot. Sometimes their faces are blurred because they don't give them permission
to use their likeness, right, so, and I don't think we're gonna
get permission to use the wrongs likeness. You're like, oh, how when
he's always you bought the past year. I bought one since twenty twenty four,
twenty two. Oh no, you're out, so but that's why they
owned that footage, so they can use Franco's footage. But he didn't get
paid as well, which like, yeah, like he didn't do anything new.
It's just a scene from the first movie, right, like I wouldn't
get paid anymore. But yeah, it was nice to get that answer.
I haven't trigue. There's some theories that he probably just died in that house
because when you when they walk up to the house, there's an X on
it, and you know, usually in pandemic and stuff, if someone's like
mortally affected, there's an X there. His car is also not in the
drive you can see it, so it's in the driveway that's all like grown
over and stuff. So we'll probably there's my friend Will. It's like him
I'm in then like a rope Oh my gosh. But uh yeah, like
I don't know, he kind of deserves it, right, like, you
know, I'm all for the apes and everything, but he did create this
truck that like destroyed the world, so like with good intentions, right,
come on, yeah, but you know what is that expression about no gutique
goes unpunished, and he definitely got punished, you know, but again that's
probably like he was, that was his intentions. But this was the dude
that was also fucking like. He should have never brought a monkey. We
had to pay already. He should not have brought him monkey outside that facility
to work on it, because this is what led to it. This happened,
you know, it's not wrong. This is his fault. And he's
dead. John Lifgill is dead. Probably that neighbor's definitely dead. They're all
dead. But it was nice to get that answer. Good to go back
there. And uh and now I remember, just like, oh that window
sign comes back. Now I kind of remember, even though I don't know
why the other monkeys would understand that symbol. They haven't been to Will's house,
they haven't, but that's just the that's just the symbol that is important
to Caesar, and so he'll just kind of put that into their their belief
their religion. Okay, And yeah, a good little you know, batman
moment where all these monkeys are gonna be saved and stuffing. Yeah, heartbreaking
moment when blue eyes like sees like more recent, all these other people just
like locked up and they're just stuck there. It's like, man, cob
Coble worked fast. Man, he killed these humans, and then I love
that, Like what Cole wants to do is make these humans either kill them
or make them slaves, you know, like they're all like hand cut.
Like he literally just wants to do what they did to him years ago.
And it's a you know, it's a tuble holding the grudge and up a
drug start testing them. You had to make them not speak though, and
it's opposite for Cova. I'd love to see COVID like a scientist jacket,
like trying to explain things everybody. But uh yeah, no, great,
great, now we already topical, but yeah, just great film, great
intriguing villain that it's just like, uh, you know, I can see
why they brought them back a little bit in the third one we talk about
because it's just it's interesting. But I hope I'm hopeful because like to me,
in this uh King of plant Apes, this King villain seems intriguing too,
So I'm hoping I'm hoping it's lines of this too, where it doesn't
just go into okay, bad ape, you know, and like talking.
You know, we'll talk more when we get to the next movie. But
just like the effect of I think what his kind of where he lied in
his motivations. I think it just has a really profound effect because it's like
it's it's showing that that aspect is kind of in anyone and like, you
know, Caesar kind of shows those aspects in the in the next movie,
which I found very interesting and not something I was expecting at all. I
was not expecting to see Covid back for the next movie. Spoiler alert.
Yeah, I was watching them right with you guys, and he told me,
don't worry nothing, nothing too big. What about Malcolm and the people?
How do we feel about you know, you got Jason Clark, the
great Jason Clark was very underrated character actor, you know, killed Moppenheimer last
year. Got Carrie Russell. I love he was killed in Oppenheimer last year.
I was like, oh, man, I missed that scene. He
said, no Oppenheimer, Yeah, no, no, Oppenheimer just throws at
a ball like a smash, like ultimate just like destroys everybody. But no,
he killed his performance in Oppenheimer. And then uh, yeah, you
got kry Russell. You got that, Uh you can't remember his name ship,
but he played Nightcrawler in The New and the X Men First Class People,
and he's done a couple of their roles. The Young Chap. Yeah,
he's really good at the Power of the Dog and Oscar. You got
nominated for an Oscar that film. So I like the humans, Like I
don't have too much to say, but it's much like Gary Oldman, where
all their motivations made sense. I think Jason Clark, who's so good at
playing a prick, ah, this is a good job playing like a very
understanding like you're rooting for this guy. I love the little origin as far
as he's with this woman who unfortunately lost her child to the virus, and
that becomes like a plot point and a shot later. Like I think they're
in there all for the right amount and all the stuff makes sense to me.
And I like that Malcolm is kind of Caesar's like surgate human Like it's
like it's it's like he's trying to get over an X and like he's like
replaced Will with the Malcolm. They're doing the head to head thing like they're
you know, but I do feel like it's they are in the same band
wing where Malcolm's not the leader, but they are. They understand both sides
have evil or bad people, but they're trying to do good. And that
last line of the movie is heartbreaknant and he's like, I really thought we
could, you know, work together, And he's a guy I thought so
too. So you can see that doesn't matter the walk of lives they are
and how different they are, they share a lot of the same moralities and
stuff. So, yeah, I really liked all the characters there for The
Human Sign. Yeah, I really liked mostly Malcolm. I feel like everybody
else just doesn't have a lot of moments to shine. But I was like,
wait, I think it's because I'm used to seeing this guy play a
prick and an asshole. I was waiting for the turn. I was waiting
for him to like do something very nefarious. But you know, like Caesar
said, like he was the bomb Caesar, he was a good man,
like Caesar was saying like throughout, like he was really trying to have peace
amongst both factions. It's so funny. I feel like when the apes here,
no, you know, the scene of Aphire when Jason Clark is drilling
Onheimer and the room turns the white and he gets like really loud. You
can't, like his voice is distorted. That's when I pictured the apes here
what someone says no, It's like the room goes white and they just like
no, like yeah, but no. I I I thought that he was
a nice middleman between dry fists. I think that was his name, Gary
Oldman's character and and Caesar and just just trying his best to kind of prevent
an inevitable war from happening. But uh yeah, it didn't didn't really work
out there. I I did like the quite opposite. It kicked off the
war even faster than it probably was gonna happen, you know, like the
fucking wild card guy Carver I think was the name, the one that shot
Ash in the beginning, they like have a quick line of being like he's
the only one that worked at the planet, like he's the only one that
knows how to work it. They did not have him there to like work
it at all, like like like when they're actually there, I don't think
he'd even touched a fucking knob like he was literally he wasn't allowed at that
point, right, did they have to send the car, so like why
even have him, Like like like, why are they making this this one
line of being like we gotta bring this really fucking wild card character that's gonna
shoot anyone. And he just looks like he's I don't know, having withdraws
on drugs or something like he's just so sweaty and like paranoid. Anytime they're
around apes, I'm like, man, he's like gona not trusting the guy
at all, especially when you're on the brink of war of like these apes
already don't trust us. But uh, and I also felt like they didn't
give him enough shit after I wanted to scene like they got the power,
right, or they're gonna try and get the power. They make agreement no
guns, they break the guns, get rid of them, and then he
holds a shotgun, which especially uh the fucking baby chim finds a shotgun,
so you can understand why Caesar is even more so of like, you first
of all have a gun, and my fucking couple of day year old sons
here, like are you fucking kidding me? It's just like I was confused
by the humans. There's just not a scene of Malcolm just like tearing him
a new one, like I felt like that was needed of like man,
like it's just like a fucking car like whatever, like when an asshole,
right, but then if Malcolm sees it, don't get back together, and
uh, what's his wife is like getting sick in these of medicine. Carver's
fucked everybody like they are going extinct because of will. And then second Carver,
like those are the two people on the posters. So I just be
like, like I would, like you're not in this community anymore, like
you have no part of it, like fuck you man like you. It's
not even the first one like him shooting ape. I can understand, like
you got scared whatever, but this one's like did you have to bring up
some shot off shot like not even a pistol, fucking shoddy to the ape
like sank like camel in there too. I'm trying to kick ass. It's
an automatic ude. But yeah, so I agree with you. There is
a little bit of like an eye roll of if you know, this guy's
kind of a shit stir like bring anybody else, like don't even in the
car, don't have him sit there. You know this isn't the right way,
because fucking right, this is how bad Carver is. Coba frames him.
I love the scene too where the Apes are going crazy and Maurice is
like run like that's all he says, like, yeah, that's great.
But then when Malcolm c Caesar, he's like, yeah, man, I
don't know why Carver would do this, but I guess he shot you.
Like Malcolm, that's how bad Carver's He fully bought into that Carver whin o
the tree, just like fuck these apes and like ruined the whole thing.
So it's like, how was Carver back at the camp for them to believe
that he just started a war? They didn't even question it. I guess
they did like, oh, I don't know why what he was doing out
there, But it wasn't even like a no, there's no way he would
do this. They were like, yeah, maybe he might have shot seize
her, he might have burned down the apes. So shitty guy that they
should have got rid of. He should have just been at that's a soldier
guy. That's the guy that you have. Hey, when the apes come
here, you had to fucking kill Moll. He's sitting with Gary Oldman,
not whoever, like the Gary oldman guy that was like working the radio.
I guess we were radio, like, said that guy. He seemed nice,
cool, calm and collected, you know, not Carver, but they
did, and that started a lot of the issues here. You know,
so and like that scene when they're at the campfire and he's just like you
you like your child died at the at the you know, by the Simon
flew and you had like I remember like a sister that died as well.
It's just like, shut the fuck up. His wife, his wife remember
on the asshole then like walks offs like yeah, you are the fucking asshole,
Like like what do you he doesn't have an answer to and she's like,
well, the a's were being experiment like they didn't create the thing.
He's like they fucking suck man like like it's just like qualities at all,
very meat, heeady, very like. That's why I said, like GT
like very video gaming NPC guy. But I guess I'm I guess I was
like fine with it in a sense because there are those humans in real life.
It's just like that's the thing where it's like it's not a stretch.
And you know, he got killed off again scary death. But Danny thoughts
on the humans. I mean that one the main guy, Jason Uh,
the actor. The only time I really ever think back of him is a
terminator for some weird reason when he plays Oh John Connor and grown up John
Carter that souped up as a terminator. Oh my, yeah, yeah,
that's that's what I remember him from. So do you remember appenheim Er?
Not more now though, should not replace the terminator memory, but it doesn't.
All I see is just him walking. I'll never forget it. We
could say the world mum, oh got a love that story. The director's
like, whatever you do, don't put this twist in the trailer, Like,
hey, we won't first trailer. Oh guess what, John Carter's the
Terminator now? Like fuck? But you know, I think that I think
he was great in this movie. I really really do. I think that
him trying to be the Mediators is awesome. I liked seeing that one human
that's kind of trying to trying to do this and you have so many other
humans that are just against it, and just what could be if both ape
and man were to kind of work together and build like it would just be
a powerhouse like the world could come back and be wonderful, but not the
case in this other human scenes too, I like is when Maurice and the
Boy are just kind of like in the like in the campsite, just with
the books and stuff like that. Really like that that was really wonderful.
Ah. And yeah, just this this fucking idiot guy was just a god.
He's a dumb ass, absolute dumb ass. I don't know what planet,
apparently Earth. You think it's a right fucking idea to go into this
huge fourtified ape encampment area or ape territory and bring one little gun. You
think that's gonna make a huge fucking difference. Like I just picture Hanimi and
he thinks he's fucking mad Max. He's gonna take on all these apes with
this one gun. Oh absolutely, he's such a fucking idiot. And again
it's just they have him in here, and it's it's a great reaffirmation maybe
just a reminder of just man's folly and humankind just being stupid making these stupid
decisions. And that's usually the case about the theme throat all of these films
is the the ultimate downfall to the humans is their their own decisions they they
interfere or they do these things, and these decisions and choices that they make,
uh like they're the instrument of their own destruction. And it's really heavily
displayed in the next Apes film, which I'm excited to talk about too.
But yeah, I think the humans are they were a step up over the
last last batch. Mm hmm, let me take my nose. Is there
any other I just want to shout out the moment when Carver shoots the Ape
and then the crew comes to kind of back them up, and then you
just have the fucking hooting and hollering coming off from the Apes and then just
the swarm of Apes to just like core around them, and like, you
know, they got like a sniper rifle, like maybe a magnum. I
think they have another like shotgun or something. But it's like, man,
what are you gonna do? Like maybe take out one or two apes?
These these Apes are gonna fucking rip you to shreds, especially like Malcolm having
him son or hit his son with him in that moment. I'm like,
that's gotta be one of the scariest fucking moments of all their lives. Just
Okay, you know, we shot an ape. There's two apes here,
like like, this is a pretty tense situation. Then you just fucking hear
screams in the woods and then they just come out of like everywhere and like
so fast, they just swarm. It's the context where you don't again,
like the people didn't know about the apes and you have ape armies show up
in their city. So you're out here hiking looking for generator and yeah,
just ape army just descends upon you. You're like like William dafoex look it
up, like yeah, and then you have fucking Caesar be like cut it
out. It's like what the fuck? Yeah, and I do like at
that point they both almost think each other's dad. The apes like we haven't
seen humans in years and vice versa, right, so they just think they're
kind of extinct. So I like that for both races. It's kind of
like a wake up corbo. Shit, there's someone's out here and the humans
maybe don't even have the numbers, but they still got a lot of attack,
right, Like when they apes attack that base, it's not an easy
attack. They do take it over, but they lose a lot of apes
to fucking which was a kind of bold that guy, I get it.
I love when he has like that tank or whatever it's called, the machine
that has like the machine gun on it, and Garylan's like yeah, he's
like you're so fucking excited, and Koba takes that shit over real fast and
just destroys a humans wall. Like I just thought, like I get why
the Gary Olman's character dresses exciting this moment. I was like, this is
my weapon. Don't send out there because if you lose this weapon, and
they did right right away, like the hatch is open. It's an open
like you'd be better just to lock the hatch and run the apes over,
not fucking like the got like yes and then it's over. But I did
really like that shot they have like Coba has the gun and it's moving and
they have it like tripoded on the tank, so like when it's spinning,
like the camera's spinning with you. It's not a solid shit, and it's
like Coba's like in the right of the screen and then all the left is
like emptiness with emptiness that starts to get filled with apes or action or fire
and stuff. So I really like that. But uh, yeah, the
humans were they weren't ready for it, so they weren't ready. Uh.
I want to shout out to Maurice. We didn't talk about them much on
this episode, but he's just so solid throughout this whole trilogy, that Matt
Reeves trilogy here and right by a woman I learned. I didn't know that,
So I'm not sure if more Ree is supposed to be a man or
woman ate but I didn't know that because I saw the actors in clicked on
IMDb. Yeah, there you go, very expressive eyes, like throughout the
whole the whole series doesn't really say anything much, but uh just I don't
know, super welcoming and warm I think in his in his appearance and I
like just this kind of like uh more more I don't even know the best
way to describe it. Just just like a more calm, I think,
like person to talk to for for Caesar, like like cause Caesar is the
decision maker. He's got Cooba just like telling him to go to war.
And then you have Maurice that is just like I don't know, not necessarily
giving him like straight up things to do, but just but just helping him
kind of talk through these situations and and and be almost like a like a
Jedi type like wisdom, like just dropping some lines here and there, yeah,
and never tell yeah, and never giving him a strung and this is
a bad way, but like you have to do this. It's always coming
down like you gotta like I'll guide you, but he's still got to figure
out for yourself. And I also think Maurice is some of the best.
He like looks the best, Like anytime they're on him, he just looks
so damn good. It's just like it. It's kind of scary. And
I really like the kind of friendly relationship he has with the Sun too,
and they're like exchanging books and stuff like that's cool. So yeah, he
seems like a nice human mediator you'll be representing on the on the the un
for the human side or the relations of it. I'd love to hang o
Maurice, you know, he'd be guy or gal. I love to talk
with them. Very little legs from what I would expect, like when he's
moving around just just using his arms. I don't really look up orangutangs much,
but I don't know this. This movie did have me kind of curious
on just the weights of certain apes and such, because like gorillas, a
lot less heavy than I was kind of expecting. I thought they were like
eight hundred pounds or something, but they're like three fifty maybe four hundred pounds.
I don't know. Really, it seems lighter than what I would expect.
They can lift ten times their weight though, so they can lift it
depends on their weight, but like up to four thousand pounds, and I'm
like, cheese us take over. We're so fucked. Yeah. Maybe it's
like pure muscle too. I don't know that's why they look heavier, but
they were really just like you know, they guess they're technically lighter. So
rangue tangs are lighter than gorillas as well. I thought they were kind of
chunky, but that makes sense to me. Yeah, anything else anything showed
up before some trivia. Very curious what the trivia is for this, these
newer apes movies. Okay, I hope it's good. I hope. I
hope us to your meeting. There was never paid for. Well, I
did have that, but I brought someone right that. Yeah, there was
X on the door and stuffy. Yeah, Will's Will's a goner. So
and I don't think there was like a place for Will here like it would
have been weird if like Will's with the with like in the Malcolm role.
Apparently, when ruber Riott was directing it, there was a role for Will,
So I Frankel did think he was coming back at one point, but
it switched that went away, so he wouldn't be with the humans. He'd
be living with the apes and there in their little tribe there. Well,
and this is but I don't yeah maybe, but this is so this is
what before. I don't know who wrote it, but Matt Reeves when he
got on the project, this was the original draft, so he says an
the original draft, which was written before he was hired, was set further
in the future, with apes having obtained the ability to speak almost flawlessly and
Caesar playing a much smaller role, where Heves thought it would be more interesting
explorer Caesar's story at earlier stage and asked for a permission to rewrite the script
from scratch. His request was granted as long as the condition was he met
on the film release date. So that's what the game was like. You
can do it, but he's still you know, all love it. You
can work more, but you still got to hit that same date. You
know. Good old Hollywood, but it was delayed and then they delayed it.
Yeah, so it's funny that like these fucking claims at the beginning,
like you better hit it, and then doesn't happen. But so, yeah,
I don't even know what he was taught. I guess there's maybe three
versions of the script of River Bryer being like everyone bringing your back Franco.
That didn't happen. Then there's this new script to jumping into the future,
which I'm happy they did because we're getting that now with like I feel Kingdom.
But that's where it's like, it's great to get that now because we
had that three trilogy with Caesar. It would have felt odd just to jump
forward, and especially at that first movie making Caesar such a vital character,
to make him just like a minor, just co like he would have been
like the president Mayor that they go speak to. I think that would have
been very blackluster. So I'm happy. I'm happy Matt Reeves wanted to rewrite
this. So let's see the original or the Maurice. The ranking is a
reference of Maurice Evans, who played doctors as in Planet Apes and Beerneath the
Planet Apes. So that's why you got that name, So there you go.
I already said that. Yeah, the photo is of Gary Oldman's kids.
The film takes place in twenty twenty six, so guys, we've got
a couple more years and then it is over. The name Blue Eyes was
given to Caesar's son because he is the first generation to be born without the
chemical that changed the rest of the apes to make their eyes appear green in
the laboratory. So he's got all the functions of these apes, but he
doesn't have the sid effects of the eyes. So there you go. Interesting.
In contrast to the previous movie, this film shot motion capture mostly in
exterior sets. Circus remark that shooting outside motion capture suits made all the actors
actresses playing apes very sweaty and smelly that they hardly dare had come close to
any other people after a few days, so I guess they were just like
those suits were tapes. Yeah, which I think we will get you in
the story, you know. So Gary Oldman said he doesn't like me in
the movies he's made or is acting in them, including critically acclaimed once The
Midday. He's taken a lot of rules for money. He said that about
Batman and Harry Potter. But he said he decided to work on this film
because he was a big family original and he thought the script was very good.
Is that how he probably feels about Book of Eli too, Probably?
Yeah. I think he said most of his films he didn't like those films,
So he's just he's just selling all the time. But yeah, I
told the story. Yeah. Ruper Broyer declined drate this film, saying he
was uncomfortable with the original lock release date of May twenty three, twenty twenty
four May twenty third, twenty twenty fourteen and would not give him enough time
to work on the film. However, just a few months before the release,
the film slot was delayed and replaced with X Men Days of Future Pass.
So yeah, I'm sure he was kind of like, yeah, let's
see. When Coba first challenge to Caesar, Coba ultimately backs down to show
submission. He lowers his body and a position extends his hand to Caeesar and
knowledges gesture by swiping and touching COVID's hand. This is accurate to chimp chimpanzee's
behavior and how chimpanzees interact. Establishing dominant slash submissive roles, so it's very
much, you know, lifelike. And then in the original ending, the
apes returned to the Mirror Forest with a military battleship pursuing them. What they
were kind of referring to, like, oh, they're on their way.
Director Matt Reeves changed the ending following ambigious reactions by the preview audience, saying
that the original ending to skipped the emotional beats and should not end with an
unknown entity. The present ending with the Clark and Anie Circus were filmed weeks
before the release of the film Any Circus via Skype Call and Sorry, and
Matt Reeves was on set, so he directed them via skype call, and
Circus was also standing providing lines for Clark on the set, so they like,
really Jimmy rigged that ending between Clark and like at one point Circus is
playing both roles, is directing through Skype like but it's this is why it's
so interesting, because everybody always like the studio or test audiences where and that's
why I like, that's why I will always do this as long as we
have power over it. Because there's stuff that when we put our drink Ramount
and people like, oh, let's here. It's like, oh, yeah,
that's good, like we could do that or that's something take note like
to me most times and most directors will say, oh, I fucking hate
test audiences, but I completely agree with the test audience. Where to me,
if you don't get that final scene with Malcolm and uh Caesar, that's
a disappointment. And then just like it ending in some chasing and them being
chased for the forest. To me, it's like that that sounds like such
a lackluster ending compared to what we got of if you say goodbye to Malcolm
they like you said, we all said we like those lines. Oh we
wish it could have worked out. You see sees standing over the apes.
That's where it's like sometimes test audiences and things like that and some even studio
notes are not the worst thing in the world, because to me, it
made the movie much better than whatever that ending. I was like a chase
through the forest, like all right, cool, Like it would have felt
weird if we never saw Malcolm again after the ball went off, like that
would have been very odd for Caesar and Malcolm never interact like so, you
know, a good thing. So that's all I know, I know what
I have. You can go look. There's tons of notes about like the
the you know, the working and the wet end all that stuff. Kirkland,
did those meet you expectations below lesser? Yeah? I was all right,
yeah when you set me up, when you said that, I was
like, I don't think I got anything like amazing, Like you know,
it's all just expected a lot. I don't know. Why were you like
we were expecting was one and you're like, man, I wish I knew
more about blank chest fucking everybody got weird foot disease from working in the wet
and their mocap suits something like that section of vehicles like on the matter,
the cap had a weird arousal effect on all the actors. I was walking
around a bunch of boners. Uh, I will give this film. Uh
easy. They had the CGI but had to double double to hidle the boners.
And you should see the uncut cut. You know, just all these
ap is hard all the time. They're just skull fucking people. Coba loved
it, but easy ten at ten one of the best movies of this generation,
I said, one of the best sci fi movies. Fantastic thing.
This was the coming out party for Matt Reeves because we'll talk about war,
but then that led to the Batman, like Matt Reeves is just uh,
he's an incredible directing genius that comes here and everybody else writer's crew. Of
course I circus all of them as well too, but Matt Reeves came in
and his crew stepped it up. And yeah, fantastic movie. So yeah,
easy ten ten for me, Taylor. Yeah, I'm gonna go no.
Ten out of ten. This movie was. It's just so good.
I love the messaging in these Apes movies. It's so powerful. If you
ever just want to feel like you're a piece of shit, watch these movies
because it just is a great I was watching it. While I was watching
this, I just heard like core in my mind. It's just like so
betraying your own race, so exactly. Yeah, and yeah, it's just
as I already said, the messaging, the characters, and Caesar is just
such an interesting Ape character just to follow along, and so many cinematic climactic
moments that occur in this movie, so things just get heated. And it's
just segues too, and just a crazier sequel that's just freaky and terrifying.
I can't wait to retro that with you guys. But it stands as a
ten out of ten. This thing ages so well, and I'm I'm just
so happy that this world that were seeing unfold and build is the one that's
being continued on in Kingdom of the Plant of the Apes. I think that
just that that's just a sweet spot. And I was always afraid, like
maybe we're not going to get that continuation, but yeah, this is just
it's fantastic, and this movie does a great job really expanding upon the world
and getting a little bit one last well I shouldn't say one last dose,
but just giving the audience a little bit more of just humans still at a
very powerful point, and dealing with the tension of apes as well instead of
just being only apes existing and just like one or two people kind of thing
like that. So it's it's cool, cool situation. Yeah, I uh,
I think I'll go ten and ten as well. Here we'll go thirty
for thirty on this one. I you know, there's some super minor things
that I think I didn't love initially, but the more that we were talking
about, I did actually, you know, change my mind. I do
like the decision that Cobo was the one that that shot Caesar, because as
you guys were, you know, and Carver up there, Yeah, I
know that that wouldn't make sense, like because I was just thinking, like
I did want the threat to be the humans that that that kind of starts,
you know, throws the match on the flame or not on the flames
on the gasoline to just ignite this fire. But it it is important to
show that the apes are also capable of, you know, the evil side
of it. And that's kind of what Caesar's doubled down on by the end
when they're chilling and will House and he's just having this existential crisis moment kind
of what the fuck's going on? Yeah, and like yeah, things like
that. I think they're just such minor cons that they don't really bring down
the overall enjoyment of the film. I think it's so so interesting to have
a movie like this where they really could just have humans versus apes and that's
the plot, but like they do make it very very mixed in the middle,
that there is good and bad on both sides, and just you know,
when when they try to have the effort to bring about peace. It's
not always so easy, and there is just so many variables that can just
really bring down the whole castle. And I think that's kind of what's shown
here. And you know, by the end of the movie, like Koba's
decision, it leads them to war, like they can't just okay, we
took out Coba. That like, like that's dealt with. We can just
go back to living in the woods. Like it's just Pandora's box is open
and they can't go back from that moment. They already have the soldiers coming
in from the north, and it just it's a really nice setup movie,
I think for what war is. And uh yeah, I think it does
its job really really well here And yeah, no, great movie, great,
fantastic movie. It was great first time watching it, you know,
ten years later from the release and finally, yeah, it would have sucked
if it was the opposite a ten years and then just dog shit and absolute
ass. Yeah what are these people talking about? You know? So well,
there you go, ladies, gentlemen, next of or next up,
we will have war for the Plan of the Apes before we do Kingdom of
Plant Mapes, and it will not be boring in the bag no no,