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Hi, and welcome back to The
Unseen Podcast, a podcast dedicated to missing

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people, unresolved cases, and UK
true crime. Today, we're going to

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be exploring the murder of fifteen year
old Yvonne Laker in nineteen sixty four.

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Her murder, which happened while she
was traveling on a train, shocked to

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the country, given that Yvonne was
just fifteen years old and what happened to

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her in broad daylight was so brutal
and unnecessary. Despite the outrage that everyone

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felt, her murder was not solved
and still remains unsolved to this day.

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This episode is about the murder of
a child and so listener discretion is advised.

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Basingstoke Train Station was built to serve
the town of Basingstoke in the County

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of Hampshire. It lies between Southampton, Winchester Reddin and is also around forty

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eight miles from London. On the
twenty ninth of June nineteen sixty four,

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a routine train service between Southampton and
Reddin pulled into Basingstoke station at just before

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four point thirty pm. This was
a service which regularly passed through Basingstoke and

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passengers both got on and off at
the station. One of the passengers that

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got on at the station was twelve
year old Michael's sap. He had been

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spending the day train spot in.
He got on the train and when he

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entered one of the compartments, he
later recounted that he noticed that the toilet

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door was open. He spotted what
he described as the legs of a lady,

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and then a pool of blood all
over the floor. Michael immediately shouted

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into another compartment and told them what
he'd seen. Another passenger pulled the communication

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card and Michael quickly made the decision
to jump back onto the railway track and

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run back to Basingstoke station. The
train had just pulled out of the station

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and he made his way back to
try and locate a doctor. This was

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an emergency situation and Michael thought very
quickly on his feet. Police and emergency

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services were immediately dispatched to the scene. It reported that when police initially looked

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into the toilet in the compartment,
the scene looked as though it could have

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been a suicide. However, it
soon became apparent that this was not at

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all what it was. The police
found the body of a young woman in

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the toilet of the train compartment.
She had evident severe injuries to her neck.

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The postmartem that was later conducted by
doctor Keith Simpson established that the woman

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had died from shock and hemorrhage due
to her throat being cut. This was

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a brutal attack and it was clear
that whoever had committed it was extremely dangerous.

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It did not take long for the
police to establish who the victim was,

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given that her belongings were still in
the compartment. The young woman was

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found to be in fact a child, fifteen year old Yvonne Laker. Yvonne

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had boarded the train at Southampton and
was on her way back to Maidstone Catholic

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Convent, a Catholic boarding school.
Yvonne's parents, Sergeant Peter Laker and her

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mum Ursula, were living in Singapore, along with Yvonne's younger brother Robert.

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Her father was a sergeant in the
RAF and both Yvonne and their other son,

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Christopher, were at boarding schools in
the south of the UK. Thirteen

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year old Christopher was at a school
in Oxford. Discovered that Yvonne had been

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staying with her grandparents in the area
of Barton on Sea, a Coastal village

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in Hampshire. That morning, her
grandfather, Major Cyril Laker, had dropped

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Iton off at the train station in
Southampton. She had boarded at three twenty

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five pm that afternoon and the train
had left Basingstoke station at four twenty eight

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pm, with her body being found
shortly after this. The police was shocked

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by the brutality of the crime and
the brazen nature of it taking place during

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daytime with other people on the train. How had this happened? There was

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hope that someone must have seen something
important or relevant during that time. Early

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on in the investigation, police were
interested in trying to establish when on the

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journey this murder had taken place.
The train was evacuated after the discovery of

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the body, and the remaining passengers
were transferred to a relief train. This

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allowed police to look more carefully at
the crime scene, and they also searched

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the train tracks. A beret and
some shoes were discovered on the tracks near

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the station of Mitchell Deva, north
of Winchester. This they thought could initially

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point to where the murder may have
taken place on the journey. These items

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were later identified as belonging to Yvonne. The journey between Mitchell Dever and Basingstoke

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would have taken around twenty minutes.
The compartment that Yvonne was traveling in was

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crucial to the police investigation, and
they concentrated their efforts to trying to find

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as much evidence as they could.
The working theory was that Yvonne may have

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been initially attacked in the compartment and
then her body had been dragged to the

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toilet where her throat had been cut. This was a murder with such vas

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violence that nobody could comprehend, particularly
when the victim was only a child.

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Detective Chief Superintendent Walter Jones, who
was leading the investigation, described the murder

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to the press as the work of
a maniac, showing his level of shock

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and disgust at what had happened.
There were some very important pieces of evidence

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found in the compartment which police wanted
to immediately find out more about. On

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the seat behind where Yvonne had been
sitting, police found a brown paper carrier

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bag. When they looked inside the
bag, they discovered what looked to be

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the remains of someone's lunch. Given
that police were working on the theory that

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Yvanne's attacker had been in the compartment
and had been sack close to her.

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They were very interested in this.
Inside the bag they found a bread roll,

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a lettuce and cucumber sandwich, and
a half eaten packet of biscuits.

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The pack it had been the brand
Saint Michael, meaning that they came from

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the shop Marx and Spencer. Police
believed that this bag and its contents were

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very significant and so they appealed for
anyone that had been on the train to

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come forward if they believed that they
had seen someone eating this particular packet of

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biscuits. They also appealed to the
public and one headline from the time read

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did you pack the Killer's lunch?
Police explained that they believed there was a

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wife, a mother or a landlady
out there who packed this man's lunch and

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that they may remember it and make
the contents of it regularly. They believed

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this as the brown bag looked as
though it had been folded many times,

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as though used a lot. Police
even went so far as to trace the

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bread wrapper that was inside the brown
bag. This came from Midland made Farmhouse

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Bread, which originated from East Midland
Cops Operative Bakery at Langley Mill in Derbyshire.

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The mill told police that they distributed
to long Filton, Ilkston, Langley

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Mill, Ripley, Derbyshire, Grantham, Lancashire, and Selstone, Nottinghamshire.

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This could help them to narrow down
who this lunch had belonged to and perhaps

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who was in the compartment with Yvonne. Police had also found some fragments of

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green glass, both in the compartment
and on the track outside the train.

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This they believe came from the glass
bottle which was used to murder Yvonne.

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This glass bottle was found through investigation
to have come from a sherry bottle due

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to the markings that had been left
on it. This was also crucial information.

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Through investigation, police were able to
establish a timeline for Yvonne's murder.

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She had set off on the train
at three twenty five pm and had been

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seen off by her grandfather. There
was reportedly no one else in her compartment

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at that time. At three point
fifty eight, the train left the Winchester

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stop and police believed that this may
have been where the killer had got onto

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the train. At four oh eight
pm, the train stopped at Mitchell Deva

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and witnesses that were on the train
had told police that there was no man

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left in the compartment at that point. The train then carried on to Basingstoke

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and it was then that police believed
that Yvonne was killed, and she was

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then found as the train pulled out
of Basingstoke at four twenty eight pm.

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They were actually dealing with quite a
tight timeline for when this could have happened,

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and this should have made the investigation
easier. However, the lack of

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witnesses who actually saw anything suspicious that
day made this difficult. Despite this,

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it appeared that police had made good
progress with the investigation and in just over

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a week they had made an arrest. It's reported that on the eighth of

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July, the police had arrested a
twenty seven year old man for Yvonne's murder.

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It was revealed that this man was
an unemployed farm worker named Derrek Pie.

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you for listening to this sponsor and
for supporting the podcast. Derek Pie was

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a married father of three and so
when he attended his first court hearing,

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there was a lot of interest in
him. What was the evidence against this

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unassuming husband and father and why did
police believe that he had killed ivonn Officers

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covered his head so that the crowds
of people could not immediately get a look

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at him. However, in the
subsequent pre trial hearings that followed, a

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lot more information about Pie would be
revealed. It was discovered that Derek Pie

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had arrived on the police's radar after
he had been taken into custody on a

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different charge. On July the second
days after Yvonne's murder, Derrick had knocked

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on the door of his neighbor,
missus Elizabeth Stewart Naedler, at high Point,

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Ditton Hall, Farnham in Surrey.
She stated that he looked a mess.

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The left side of his face and
his left hand were covered in blood,

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and his shirt was bloodstained. He
told her that he'd been hit by

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a car that had failed to stop
and he needed some help. She agreed

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to take him to Farnham Hospital.
On the way to the hospital, he

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got out of her car to use
a phone box, which he told her

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he was using to ring his wife. He then used the phone box in

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the backyard of the pub. He
left that yard and used another phone box

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across the road. After using this
phone, he then reportedly just walked off

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down the road. This was an
odd occurrence for someone who was so desperate

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to get to the hospital. However, it would turn out that what he

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had told his neighbor was not true
story, as a few days later he

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was arrested on charges of taking and
driving a car. It turned out he

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had taken someone's car, driven it
away, and driven into a telegraph pole.

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He was not hit by a car, which is what he'd stated it

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was. While in custody, however, that a link between Pie and Yvonne's

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murder was established. A police officer
later testified that he found Pie crying in

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his cell while in custody, and
he told this officer that he had seen

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someone dragging Yvonne Laker through the compartment
and that he was there that day on

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the train. He said he had
entered the compartment with Yvonne and another man.

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He went to the toilet and when
he came back, Yvonne was leaning

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on the man. The man told
Pie that Yvonne was sick and then proceeded

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to take her to the toilet.
They were then in there around two to

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three minutes. When the man emerged, Pie said he asked if the woman

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was okay, and the man told
him it's none of your business. Police

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believed that this account was untrue and
actually Pie had been the person who had

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killed von that day and he had
put himself in that compartment with her.

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They did concede that they had no
scientific evidence to prove this. The prosecution

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at these hearings did present some evidence, however, that was not just circumstantial.

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Michael Isaac's, a Scotland yard scientist, testified that he had found a

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tiny fragment of green glass in the
right hand pocket of a soue owned by

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Derek Pie. Mister Isaac said that
he examined hundreds of fragments and pieces of

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green glass found by detectives on the
train and on the railway track. He

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had built up the base of a
bottle with some of these pieces. The

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pieces showed the letters GBC, which
were Roade numbers on all bottles of the

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brand Quest, which was a sherry
bottle. The fragment in Pie's pocket was

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only just visible to the naked eye, and so he could not say for

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deafinite that it came from the same
bottle. Police officers who searched Pie's home

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explained that they had found some Quester
sherry bottles and confirmed that they took the

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suit from his home. In the
end, Pie had been interrogated for thirteen

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and a half hours, and for
his part, he denied having anything to

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do with the murder and stated that
the only thing he did was holed the

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toilet door open for the man,
he did not murder her. Despite his

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denials, he was committed to trial
in September. Pie's defense team told the

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judge they didn't think they had enough
time to prepare for a trial beginning in

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November. However, the judge disagreed
and the trial continued as planned. While

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these hearings were taking place, Yvonne's
family were coming to terms with her unnecessary

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loss. Her funeral took place at
New Milton in Hampshire. However, her

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family were determined to keep this as
private as possible and wanted to grieve without

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the crowds of onlookers who often do
appear in high profile cases such as hers.

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During Derrek Pye's trial, a ticket
collector who had been on the train

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that day confirmed that he had seen
him and that he had indeed been there

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on that day that Yvonne had been
murdered. This, however, did not

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help too much, as Pie admitted
he was on the train, but he

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said he'd seen another man in the
compartment. The ticket collector did also confirm

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that there was another man in the
compartment at one stage, but he didn't

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know if this other man had got
out earlier, and therefore this would have

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left Pie and Yvonne alone. This
witness testimony was of course jumped on by

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the defense, who stated that this
proved if someone else was in the compartment

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and raised reasonable doubt that Derek Pie
had committed the murder. During the trial,

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the bold move of taking the judge
and the jury to the train compartment

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where Yvonne had been killed was made. The prosecution questioned Pie, stating that

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he could have heard about Yvonne's murder
in the newspaper and produced a daily Mirror

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paper from the thirtieth of June,
where it outlined the train that she traveled

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on and showed a picture of her. This implied that Derek had plenty of

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time to come forward with the information
that he knew, but he didn't.

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Pie stated that the Mirror was his
usual paper, but that he didn't normally

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read about murders, so he wouldn't
have seen it. Another odd piece of

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information that came out during Pie's questioning
is that he'd noticed that there was glass

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on the floor in the compartment and
that he thought this was quite dangerous and

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admitted to throwing a piece of it
out of the window. Other witnesses were

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also called, including a man named
Ronald Bridges who was working in his tractor

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cutting a field of hay around four
thirty pm close to the route between Mitchell

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dev and Basingstoke. He said he's
Sarah man he presumed was walking from the

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railway tracks. He was of adverage
height in his twenties, with brushed back

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hair, wearing a dark jacket and
trousers. He thought the man was carrying

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something but he only took a quick
glimpse, so wasn't sure it reported quite

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a few people use that route and
so it wasn't that unusual to see someone

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there. Another witness called Joseph Discipline
also Sarah Man, around thirty two to

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thirty five years of age, standing
around a quarter of a mile from the

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railway tracks. Derrick Pye's trial lasted
seven days and the jury deliberated for six

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and a half hours before returning with
the herm verdict. Derek Pye was acquitted

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of murdering Yvonne Laker. It was
clear that the prosecution had not proved guilt

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beyond a reasonable doubt. This was
not the end of the stories for Derek

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Pie, however. The judge stated
that this case attracted the utmost revulsion and

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horror, and despite the fact that
Pie had been acquitted of Avonn's murder,

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he had two further indictments against him
which he would have to stand trial for.

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His defense team argued that he had
already spent four and a half months

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in prison on the murder trial and
that he should be allowed to go.

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They alluded that the charges were something
to do with Pye's wife. However,

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the judge said, I was not
thinking of the charge concerning her, I

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was thinking of the charge concerning arson. It's reported that Pye had set a

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light a barn, broke into a
house in Basingstoke and set fire to furniture.

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He was convicted of those three charges, but acquitted of the charges of

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setting fire to another three barns in
the area. He was sentenced to serve

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eighteen months in prison for these offenses. Pie's wife, Irene, stated that

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she would stand by him and wait
for him to get out. This was

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a very strange set of events,
and while Pie was acquitted through lack of

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evidence of Yvanne's murder, it was
clear that he did have a criminal past,

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which included setting fires, stealing cars, and possibly some charges involving his

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wife. This verdict left Ivan's case
back at square one. What had looked

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like a promising lead in the beginning
turned out to be the opposite. So

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the question was where did they go
from here with the investigation. In the

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years that followed, police did continue
to try and solve the murder and appealed

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for information from people who may have
been on the train, and tried to

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track down as many leads as they
could. However, this proved fruitless.

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Strangely, Yvon's was not the only
murder to have happened on a train.

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In the years that followed, other
murders took place, which served to put

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Yvonne's case back in the headlines.
In April nineteen sixty five, thirty one

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year old Enid May Wheeler, aged
thirty one, was found dying on the

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railway line between Aldershot and ashe Vale
on the Surrey Hampshire border. She later

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died of her injuries. It was
later found that Patrick Jenner, a laborer,

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had been arrested for the murder of
Enid May Wheeler and had been caught

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through bloodstains and fibers on his clothes, a tie clip found near the body,

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a knife discovered near the track,
as well as a palm print in

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the compartment. While her crime got
solved, it again drew attention to Yvonne's

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case that remained unsolved. Another murder
also took place In September nineteen sixty five,

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A twenty three year old woman was
found dead on a train from Bogna,

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Regis in Sussex to Victoria in London. She was discovered in the front

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compartment of the train that had left
Bogna, Regis some time after four o'clock

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and got into Gatwick Airport at five
thirty one pm. Two special coaches were

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attached to the train at that point, and it was then that the driver

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looked into the compartment and saw the
body under the seat. Twenty CID men,

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led by Detective Superintendent John Place,
went to the scene and found signs

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of a desperate struggle. Blood was
splashed all over the compartment and she had

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had her throat slashed. This was
a worry for investigators who now had their

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third train murder in eighteen months.
Why was this happening and how did it

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keep happening without people witnessing it.
The victim was identified as Patricia Willard,

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a trainee teacher. Michael Gillis was
eventually convicted of the murder, and he

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stated that he killed Patricia because she
was showing too much leg on the train

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and that all the hate and resentment
I had for women came to my head.

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They had gone past the point of
no return, and I do not

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remember what happened between this and stabbing
her in the throat. Gillis was convicted

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of manslaughter on account of diminished responsibility
due to an abnormality of the brain at

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the time of the murder. Patricia
and Enid's murders were solved and they did

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receive some justice for what happened to
them, but unfortunately Yvonne has not,

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and to this day, Yvonne's murder
has not been solved. The case is

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nearly sixty years old and police did
not seem to have been any closer to

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finding out who killed her. It
isn't clear if police believe that they did

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have their man with Derek Pye and
therefore did not look much closer at anyone

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else, or just that other suspects
did not emerge in the investigation. It

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would be interesting to note if either
of the other suspects in the other murders

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were looked at after their convictions.
Ivan's case has become part of history with

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no real investigation having taken place.
Since it is a very cold case now

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this many years later, there is
always some hope that Ivan's case will be

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00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:40.000
solved, and I maintain this hope
for her and her family. If you

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00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:44.279
know anything about the murder of Yvonne
Laker, then please contact police on one

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00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:48.519
oh one. Thank you for listening, and thank you so much to Factor

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