1 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,400 Welcome back to the Melkay Show. Many of you know my guests today. 2 00:00:14,439 --> 00:00:21,120 He has written amazing books and knows so much about so much history and philosophy 3 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,960 and everything. And if you are not following Jay Dyer, you should be. 4 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,440 Thank you for joining me, sir. Thank you, Mel glad to 5 00:00:28,519 --> 00:00:31,199 be back. It's been a while since we had a conversation, and we 6 00:00:31,239 --> 00:00:34,079 always have pretty good deep dives, so I'm glad to be back. Oh, 7 00:00:34,119 --> 00:00:37,479 thank you so much. I so admire your work. Also, I 8 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,920 spent, as most people know, twenty years as a writer in la and 9 00:00:42,039 --> 00:00:47,520 so when I first read it. You have two volumes about occult Hollywood that 10 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,840 are really I mean, things that people know but used to go so far 11 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,920 into it. And you can't really once you read one of your books, 12 00:00:56,079 --> 00:00:59,560 you can't unsee what you see in front of you. And you're very good 13 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,799 at breaking down. You've done amazing work on also deconstructing tragedy and Hope, 14 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,439 which is a very hard book to read, but we'll give a lot of 15 00:01:07,439 --> 00:01:11,920 people insight. And in many other ways. You're also you know, I 16 00:01:11,719 --> 00:01:15,480 have so much work on philosophy and religion, and all of this stuff is 17 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,239 kind of coming to a head, like from when you started your podcast to 18 00:01:19,359 --> 00:01:23,560 now, so much of it has become common knowledge. And I was watching 19 00:01:23,719 --> 00:01:27,560 recently some of your work, So just talk a little bit about where you 20 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:34,439 are right now in this in this crazy kind of inverted world we're living in. 21 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,719 Well, lately, I've been covering a lot of the bizarre. So 22 00:01:40,719 --> 00:01:46,200 I've been doing some streams on you know, supposed paranormal phenomenon. I mean, 23 00:01:46,239 --> 00:01:49,040 I think that sometimes that happens, and those are just those are more 24 00:01:49,079 --> 00:01:52,599 fun streams. So we've been having fun with that. I've been doing a 25 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,840 lot of streams. We always do our movie streams at least once a week. 26 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,879 We've been We've been pretty consistent with that from many years. So we've 27 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:06,000 been covering like deeper themes in a lot of the pop poppy stuff like Pirates 28 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,759 of the Caribbean. We did a whole show on that. We did we 29 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,599 did a breakdown of Right now, we're doing My Buddy and I breakdown to 30 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,280 The Godfather the not just the films because I've kind of done those many times. 31 00:02:16,319 --> 00:02:21,479 We're actually doing the novel, the whole novel, and we're halfway through 32 00:02:21,479 --> 00:02:25,000 it right now. On a weekly book Club Breakdown, and it actually fits 33 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,879 in perfectly with what we're talking about today. But yeah, I mean beyond 34 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:34,520 that, I'm always covering history, geopolitics. I did a lecture on Marxism 35 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:39,199 recently in the History of Dialectics. So so we're pretty consistent with movies. 36 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:45,360 ID broke down, Oppenheimer and Barbie, you know, all the all the 37 00:02:45,439 --> 00:02:49,000 recent things that I think are interesting, we've broken those down. Yeah, 38 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,479 and you're you're great at it. And I mean, honestly, uh, 39 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:57,000 being a trained screenwriter, a lot of people don't see a lot of this 40 00:02:57,039 --> 00:03:00,599 stuff that you tend to see, which is really the script. There's nothing 41 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:05,719 in any movie that isn't there on purpose. It is very well thought out, 42 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,120 multiple takes. There's no accidents in filmmaking or TV. And you're great 43 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:14,319 at that. And that's interesting that you're reading The Godfather, the actual book 44 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,879 right now, because that is what I am working on. So I've put 45 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,479 my whole life, like a lot of people, on hold, and went 46 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,719 to ended up doing this show. But I had had a project that is 47 00:03:23,719 --> 00:03:29,520 a true story, kind of mafia based, and the protagonist is a bad 48 00:03:29,599 --> 00:03:32,479 guy who really really wishes that he wasn't but he was, I believe born 49 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:37,400 that way and it's in his blood and it is slowed or whatever. And 50 00:03:38,159 --> 00:03:40,800 it's been a journey. It's been a five year journey on writing that project. 51 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:46,599 But I went back during the COVID and I watched five series that are 52 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:52,879 related to some extent to the storyline and the subject matter in some ways. 53 00:03:53,280 --> 00:04:00,800 They had them being breaking bad Better Call Saul Sopranos Ozark. And now I'm 54 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,599 finishing up Dexter as I and I watched it from the pilot as a writer 55 00:04:04,879 --> 00:04:09,599 to the last episode, every one of these in the last five months, 56 00:04:09,639 --> 00:04:12,240 and I have to tell you, I was thinking about it, and I 57 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,400 thought, I want to ask Jaye Dyer's take on this, because what I 58 00:04:15,479 --> 00:04:17,800 realized was, in every single one of these shows, we are dealing with 59 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:25,079 very, very in most cases evil sociopaths that have no conscience and create so 60 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:30,160 much hardship and tragedy around them, and yet as an audience member or somebody 61 00:04:30,199 --> 00:04:35,720 sitting at home, we root for them. And I was wondering, you 62 00:04:35,759 --> 00:04:42,240 know, what is this doing and what is this doing to society? That 63 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,920 I am so upset when I think Dexter is almost going to get caught that. 64 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,720 I'm like, I'm thinking of all the ways, or Jimmy from Better 65 00:04:48,759 --> 00:04:51,800 Call Saul, and You're thinking, but what they do is so despicable, 66 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:56,319 and in my head I've rationalized that they should get away with it. Do 67 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,800 you see anything in that? Absolutely? Uh. I mean, like I 68 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,839 was telling you, I don't think anybody has done a podcast on this, 69 00:05:03,959 --> 00:05:08,199 so I thought you had a really great idea. I have to confess though, 70 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,759 and I know this is kind of embarrassing, but a couple of these 71 00:05:10,759 --> 00:05:15,160 shows I've not seen, so I'm not actually I'm not actually seen Breaking Bad. 72 00:05:15,199 --> 00:05:16,600 I'm one of the few people out there that have not watched it. 73 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,879 And it's not because I'm not interested in it. It's because it was once 74 00:05:21,959 --> 00:05:26,600 I got really going with what I do. It's really hard to commit to 75 00:05:26,759 --> 00:05:30,959 like a super long show like that. Yeah, but we do. I 76 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,720 have done it sometimes, like we did full We did a full breakdown of 77 00:05:33,759 --> 00:05:36,959 the Sopranos a couple of years ago, and so that's still fresh in my 78 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,399 mind. I know it very well. I have been watching Hannibal. That's 79 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:47,240 my psychos serial killer series, and that's kind of similar to Dexter because, 80 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,000 as you know, you know, the premise of Dexter is a serial killer, 81 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,959 you know, catching serial killers. But it's kind of the same with 82 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,600 Hannibal, because Hannibal, at first, you know he's actually working with the 83 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,160 FBI to help catch the bad guys. Of course, we find out that 84 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:06,519 he's really in the background as the puppet Master. But if you go back 85 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,680 to the nineties, and I would say we can go back even further into 86 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,240 you know, old noir films, where we start to see the emergence of 87 00:06:16,519 --> 00:06:20,680 the what I think begins as the dark hero archetype, which I don't have 88 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:26,600 a problem with Batman as the dark hero. You know, he's got a 89 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,439 a trauma in his past and it helps him be the dark hero. You 90 00:06:30,439 --> 00:06:32,920 know that I don't have a you know that that makes for an interesting character 91 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:38,480 and the character development. Sure that's ancient, you know, literary technique, 92 00:06:38,879 --> 00:06:43,279 but you're absolutely right that we started seeing more and more of a shift away 93 00:06:43,399 --> 00:06:46,480 from not just a character whether trauma and is pasted or a flawed hero, 94 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,720 but we're more and more so the bad guy is actually the good guy. 95 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:55,560 The bad guys the protagonist. We're on his side. We want to see. 96 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,879 So there are certain films in the forties and fifties where they started having 97 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,120 you know, the plot shift to where it was we're on the side of 98 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:06,199 the villain, watching to see if he would get away. One of these 99 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:11,480 is that we just recently watched was White Heat, where you're following James Cagney 100 00:07:11,519 --> 00:07:15,480 throughout the movie and you're wondering when they get to this big climax and had 101 00:07:15,519 --> 00:07:17,720 the shootout at the chemical plant. You know's how's he going to get out 102 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,920 of this? He's he's gotten out of everything so far, and then he 103 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,680 ends up with this just wow, right, and the whole thing blows up. 104 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,600 So it's almost like a nihilistic just you know, let's just rip it 105 00:07:29,639 --> 00:07:33,600 all down kind of story. But it was a very gripping It's a very 106 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,720 gripping film for you know, forties or whatever. If I know, you've 107 00:07:36,759 --> 00:07:40,160 probably seen it, but for the audience that they haven't seen. I had 108 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,879 not seen that. So because my wife and I've been watching a lot of 109 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,000 old movies lately from the forties and fifties, we are noticing a lot of 110 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:51,920 early trends and patterns that you know were normal today, but we're like rare 111 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:58,279 event right, Like Sunset Boulevard is rare because it's a tragedy. But I 112 00:07:58,319 --> 00:08:01,639 mean, you could argue the protagonist is actually you know Norma Desmond, the 113 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:09,959 psycho uh, you know Hollywood actress who you know is no longer in movies 114 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,680 because she's in this delusional world because she was a silent film star and now 115 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:18,959 she's basically going insane. She's dissociating, she has an associated break down, 116 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:22,160 she has alters. It was a very early presentation of alters in film. 117 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,959 I know that Hitchcock, Strangers on the Train, Psycho presents alters in films. 118 00:08:26,959 --> 00:08:33,519 So key, I think key kickoff here, James Cagney characters, a 119 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:41,480 lot of Joan Crawford characters are actually psychotic protagonist them fatals who has she She's 120 00:08:41,519 --> 00:08:45,320 either a victim who claws her way to the top or she's the evil mastermind 121 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,759 clawing her way to the top and you're rooting for her. And she pretty 122 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:54,559 much always played the psycho woman character throughout her career because they said she was 123 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,120 really that way in real life. They made that one movie about her with 124 00:08:58,039 --> 00:09:01,879 des Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I'm rambling, but yeah, 125 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,879 I'm thinking back to these old movies where we started seeing villains as the 126 00:09:05,919 --> 00:09:11,120 protagonist, which was a new kind of thing. And then I think you 127 00:09:11,159 --> 00:09:15,559 can get up into like, you know, The Godfather was a key one 128 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,679 for this as well, because being into the novel now it's fresh in my 129 00:09:18,759 --> 00:09:24,440 mind. I've seen the movies many many times. Even though the I think 130 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:31,120 ultimately the message of The Godfather's positive because the story is basically a warning about 131 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,519 the temptations of if you live your life for greed and power at all costs. 132 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,399 The thing that you were saying it was for Oh, it's for the 133 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,000 family. It's for the good of the things. It's always for the family. 134 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,639 And then how does Michael end up? A lot of people hate on 135 00:09:46,759 --> 00:09:50,200 Godfather Three, but how does Michael end up in Godfather Three? He's alone 136 00:09:50,879 --> 00:09:54,279 and he's lost his daughter, so he doesn't so all of this work to 137 00:09:54,279 --> 00:10:00,240 build this empire and the family's gone, it's just him. I think that, 138 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,399 you know, the movie gets the third movie gets all of Hey, 139 00:10:03,399 --> 00:10:05,480 but I thought, actually think that's a pretty good message. And I think 140 00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:07,559 that, you know, people said that the message of Puzo's novel is you 141 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:13,240 know, ultimately positive. So anyway, I don't want to talk too much 142 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,799 here, But yeah, and I think what you're saying though is what I 143 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:20,200 what I'm seeing too, And this is important. This is why you know 144 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,960 people that don't understand that, you know, when you're talking about the archetypes, 145 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,279 this is a very different situation because what you are saying right now. 146 00:10:28,399 --> 00:10:33,279 I noticed in all five of the things that I cited is they're always saying 147 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,879 it's about the family. And the other thing is there's so much money involved, 148 00:10:37,039 --> 00:10:41,799 especially and the only one that they end up looking like they're going to 149 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:46,000 get away with it, but you don't know because it was arc ends right 150 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:50,080 there. But is that movie because none of them enjoy the finite the money 151 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:54,159 that they make at all, everyone around them suffers and all of that. 152 00:10:54,279 --> 00:11:00,159 But yet I wonder what it's doing to the audience because it's one project for 153 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:01,639 this and then I'll tell you, you and I both know it's all bs 154 00:11:01,799 --> 00:11:07,320 the awards season, these movie these shows are also the ones that win the 155 00:11:07,399 --> 00:11:13,720 awards too, So it's there's an effort, I feel like to normalize sociopathy 156 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:20,240 and psychopathy as normal, and I wonder. I think that it has to 157 00:11:20,279 --> 00:11:26,200 be permeating in culture because instead of being it's not one's, there's this is 158 00:11:26,279 --> 00:11:31,679 the new model I feel like for these one hour dramas, so they are. 159 00:11:31,879 --> 00:11:37,799 I don't I haven't read a specific Tavistock study on doing this, but 160 00:11:37,879 --> 00:11:43,000 I would be willing to bet that they've absolutely studied the arts to the inn 161 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:48,639 degree such that they would come to the conclusion that one way to effectively change 162 00:11:48,639 --> 00:11:52,399 the culture in this direction would be to invert the hero and make the villain 163 00:11:52,440 --> 00:12:00,080 the hero and make the hero a psychopath. And as we got up in 164 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:05,200 to say eighties and nineties, we started seeing the popular genre of the serial 165 00:12:05,279 --> 00:12:09,279 killer explode, right, I mean, Hannibal comes out. I remember in 166 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,879 the nineties, you know, you had the State of Them come out. 167 00:12:11,919 --> 00:12:16,279 There was seven and there was California with Brad Pitt and Juliette Lewis. There 168 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:24,519 was Hannibal, right, Boonted Lambs. So we started seeing in the nineties 169 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:28,120 this explosion and that it was very different from the eighties because the eighties still 170 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:35,360 had the strong masculine hero archetype figure. And in the nineties we started getting, 171 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:39,919 oh, but what about the overlooked serial killer? Right, but what 172 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,519 about the complexities of the serial killer? Helping to solve the crimes. And 173 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,480 then we start to you know, to see this getting more and more prevalent. 174 00:12:48,519 --> 00:12:54,039 I think you started noticing a lot of at the same time, very 175 00:12:54,039 --> 00:12:58,919 bizarre horror started flooding into the West. For example, really gross jap In 176 00:13:00,279 --> 00:13:03,600 horror. I remember the nineties, it started getting really popular and they started 177 00:13:03,879 --> 00:13:07,519 you know, like the almost like the torture level stuff, right I saw 178 00:13:07,799 --> 00:13:11,600 in a hostel. You know that wasn't it exactly, But a lot of 179 00:13:11,639 --> 00:13:16,519 it was like specifically Japanese influenced, like because I was getting very popular in 180 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,360 the nineties. I remember, was because I was really into film even back 181 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,440 in the nineties as a teenager, and they started remaking you know, weird 182 00:13:22,519 --> 00:13:28,080 Japanese horror movies into Western you know, the Naomi watched The Ring. I 183 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:33,080 mean, the Ring isn't like that grows, but it's it's an example of 184 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,200 where they was. They started making those Japanese horror movies that are at times 185 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:41,320 pretty gross and disgusting, and they were really they wanted to push you know, 186 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,200 the envelope. Right, So if we've already pushed the envelope in a 187 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,120 lot of ways, how do we do it now? Well, let's start 188 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:50,720 having human centipede and there's really disgusting things that pushed the envelope in a in 189 00:13:50,759 --> 00:13:56,279 an attack on the human body way, I think, and going along with 190 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:00,440 that, as you said, is this figure of the psychopath. I also 191 00:14:00,519 --> 00:14:03,679 have to admit that, you know, something I've studied in grad school. 192 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:09,519 James Bond is is actually one of the key archetypal switch figures that we could 193 00:14:09,519 --> 00:14:16,000 point to where the psychopath is now the hero. Even though in the movies 194 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:20,759 you could argue at times he has morals, he wants to subtle down, 195 00:14:20,799 --> 00:14:24,519 he doesn't want to be a hit man. They but in the novels, 196 00:14:24,679 --> 00:14:28,919 you know, Ian Fleming makes it clear and it comes out in many of 197 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:33,480 the film presentations as well, that he's just a killing machine. He doesn't 198 00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:37,840 have any compunction. So, actually, James bond is a psychopath sociopath type 199 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:43,720 of figure as well, and I think he might have also pioneered in many 200 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,480 ways the same archetype of the serial killer. I mean, he is in 201 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,919 many ways a serial killer, right, you know, because and a lot 202 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:52,720 of the work that you've done in the past as well, you talk about 203 00:14:52,879 --> 00:14:58,320 kind of this class of people that are you know the superclass that I really 204 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:05,120 don't. They don't see the humanity the same. Their conscience is not the 205 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,639 same. They see themselves as other than. And it's funny. The one 206 00:15:07,639 --> 00:15:11,519 I'm almost done now watching beginning to end its Dexter. And in Dexter, 207 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:18,519 he doesn't see himself as human. He sees himself as a monster and evil, 208 00:15:18,799 --> 00:15:20,759 and though he puts on the mask. And what's scary is in a 209 00:15:20,759 --> 00:15:24,360 lot of these Ozark the same thing. I saw a lot of this in 210 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,279 Ozark. I see a lot of this in the leaders that have been exposed 211 00:15:28,559 --> 00:15:31,879 in the light in the last you know, five years, certainly last ten 212 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,960 years. Are these people that are they seem to be wearing masks, and 213 00:15:37,039 --> 00:15:41,320 we're accepting that we're seeing one evil thing. I mean, just for an 214 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,399 example, even the whole jeff Jeffrey Epstein thing. We're seeing one evil thing 215 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,159 after another evil thing, and kind of as we do when we're watching these 216 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:52,559 programs, you kind of are like, well, that's just who they are, 217 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,200 and there's never accountability. They never pay the price, I mean the 218 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:00,600 Clinton's of course, you know, we're seeing these characters in real life. 219 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,720 Klaus Schwabs of the world and yet it's not a movie and it's not a 220 00:16:04,759 --> 00:16:10,639 TV show, and and and I see some kind of like are we at 221 00:16:10,679 --> 00:16:17,159 a place where we're just accepting real life characters that are exactly you know. 222 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,600 I never watched it, but people were saying at the time, what was 223 00:16:19,639 --> 00:16:23,639 that DC drama that was huge, like Kevin Space, How's the Cards? 224 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,360 How's the Cards? Everybody was saying, oh, this is just like DC. 225 00:16:27,639 --> 00:16:33,000 And but I didn't watch it, but people were making that if you've 226 00:16:33,039 --> 00:16:36,480 seen it, would you say that that's an example of that. Yeah. 227 00:16:36,519 --> 00:16:38,960 I already couldn't stand him because I knew too much when I was still in 228 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,519 it. So it was hard to watch him because I saw I felt like 229 00:16:41,519 --> 00:16:45,120 I was watching a psychopath. But I have to say, yeah, I 230 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:49,679 see that. But and now I think that it's become so like like we're 231 00:16:49,759 --> 00:16:53,759 kind of as if we're always watching a movie and here's all these people that 232 00:16:55,039 --> 00:17:00,600 Tony Soprano is one that you really dug into on your show, accepted that 233 00:17:00,639 --> 00:17:04,279 they are them, and therefore we are letting it go. We're at a 234 00:17:04,279 --> 00:17:07,519 place where now we go after I know you've said this too, and I 235 00:17:07,519 --> 00:17:11,720 said all that we're going after agencies and you know, institutions. We never 236 00:17:11,759 --> 00:17:15,519 go after people anymore. People never pay a price, and I feel like 237 00:17:15,559 --> 00:17:21,480 we're conditioned now to be okay with that somehow. Something that this occurred to 238 00:17:21,519 --> 00:17:26,799 me is that probably part of the reason for this would be the mass acceptance 239 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:33,880 through the education system and through mass media that humans are basically just another type 240 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,119 of biological animal. And if we're biological animals, and if we listen to 241 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:41,319 people like you know, Sam Harris and uh, you know, Daniel Dennett 242 00:17:41,319 --> 00:17:47,279 and all the big atheist philosophers, they've hammered into everybody for decades that we're 243 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:52,920 basically just determined machines. And if you're a determined machine through just pure determined 244 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,799 chemical causation and process, you're not accountable for your actions. You can't have 245 00:17:57,519 --> 00:18:03,240 virtue, advice, good and evil free will in a world where everybody is 246 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,759 just a determined chemical process. So it's very hypocritical because all those guys are 247 00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:11,160 always touting morals and they always something how they're more they have, they try 248 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,359 to have moral high ground, but they don't actually have a basis for a 249 00:18:15,519 --> 00:18:19,759 justification for morals themselves, right or wrong. In fact, they're deterministic philosophy 250 00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:26,880 undercuts that. Now, I say that because that's perfectly applicable to the archetype 251 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,559 of the serial killer. In fact, in many serial killer stories, the 252 00:18:30,599 --> 00:18:36,759 serial killer identifies himself as a process of nature and rawbs your force of nature. 253 00:18:37,039 --> 00:18:41,440 Who's not accountable because he's beyond good and evil. That's Nietzschean, right, 254 00:18:41,559 --> 00:18:45,440 right, beyond good and evil. And he's a think of Anton Sugar, 255 00:18:45,079 --> 00:18:51,960 Anton Sugar and the Cohen Brothers. No Country for old Men. Yes, 256 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:56,759 he walks into the store and he's basically like, you know, choose 257 00:18:56,839 --> 00:18:59,680 flips the coin. If you choose wrong, I kill you because it was 258 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,480 a process and I'm just I'm just one link in the chain. Right. 259 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,960 Also, I just remembered I forget which one it is because I get all 260 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,880 these mixed up in my head. But the Hannibal sequel, uh, the 261 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:18,000 one with Ray Fine where he's the serial killer. Yes, Remember he's got 262 00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:22,200 that giant tattoo in his back, and he thinks he's involved in a ritual 263 00:19:22,319 --> 00:19:26,720 process whereby he's going to achieve apotheosis. He's going to become God, he 264 00:19:26,799 --> 00:19:32,000 thinks. But he also believes that he's the next phase of evolution, and 265 00:19:32,079 --> 00:19:34,559 a lot of these serial killers present themselves, I mean in the stories and 266 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,720 what you read in the real stories as well of serial killers in the movies 267 00:19:37,759 --> 00:19:42,319 and in the in the fictional presentations. They think that they're the next phase 268 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:48,359 of human evolution, right, Yeah, So that's I think a big part 269 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,319 of what's going on is that this idea of I'm at the top of the 270 00:19:52,319 --> 00:19:57,759 food chain, I'm the next phase of you know, the levels of godhood, 271 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:02,799 so to speak. And they think that because they think, well, 272 00:20:02,839 --> 00:20:04,400 the world is just predator. Oh I'm what I was going to play the 273 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:11,319 first the eighties Hannibal story, the first one Manhunter oh right, yeah, 274 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:17,880 man and Manhunter. They keep referring to him as a wild beast. There's 275 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:22,079 these references, these symbolic images. They'll even show like this tiger at one 276 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:27,480 point, and he the beast is a reference to him because we're just beasts. 277 00:20:27,559 --> 00:20:32,960 Right, that's the first Hannibal. Oh okay, Wine Hunter is the 278 00:20:33,039 --> 00:20:37,440 FBI serial killer show, Oh right about the Real Profiler, which was also 279 00:20:37,599 --> 00:20:42,119 very disturbing, exactly perfectly fits into this as well. Yeah, but it's 280 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,160 also this is what I wonder and this is something you write about a lot, 281 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:52,160 which is they're normalizing this stuff because they watch it and you see you 282 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,640 think, like, you know, because Dexter whole thing is they deserved it 283 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,319 as if he does, if he's you know, doing everyone a favor, 284 00:20:59,519 --> 00:21:03,240 you know. But also in all of these even in the Sopranos, when 285 00:21:03,279 --> 00:21:07,319 they kill somebody, they deserved it and it's okay. And this is translating 286 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:12,640 into real life. We have a lawless basically society right now that is very, 287 00:21:12,759 --> 00:21:18,680 very violent, and yet I feel like people are desensitized to this violence 288 00:21:18,839 --> 00:21:25,519 after you know, kind of falling in love, having an intimate whether it's 289 00:21:25,519 --> 00:21:30,279 in their brains or not, bond with these characters that you can't wait to 290 00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:32,279 see what they're going to do next, and you know it's going to be 291 00:21:32,319 --> 00:21:33,920 evil and people are going to die and be hurt, but you know, 292 00:21:34,079 --> 00:21:37,480 as long as they get out of it, then I feel good about it. 293 00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:41,160 And it feels like this is what's going on in society right now. 294 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,920 Even in this debate between what just happened this week in with all this horror 295 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,480 and terror and all of that, it still seems like it like we're not 296 00:21:49,839 --> 00:21:56,119 acting like this is real life exactly. I think dehumanization is the key, 297 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:02,519 right, and if we can all be seen as just animals, because the 298 00:22:02,559 --> 00:22:06,200 serial killer is just the top of the you know, the apex predator, 299 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,680 and yeah, you're right, it's it's Manhunter with William Peterson. It's what 300 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,319 I was thinking of. Okay, yeah, first one and then mind Hunter. 301 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:18,000 Is that FBI. That's actually the creation of the serial Killer Bureau, 302 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,720 right, which I think is a little that's exaggerated. I also think that 303 00:22:21,799 --> 00:22:26,440 the Serial Killer Bureau contributed to the idea that there was serial killers everywhere. 304 00:22:26,519 --> 00:22:30,440 I think they wanted to foster the idea of oh, actually, you know 305 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,799 everybody is on the spectrum of being a serial killer, right, Like maybe 306 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,799 you only have three percent serial killer, but you still got some serial killer 307 00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:45,160 in it, right, Yes, Yeah, to Tony. Tony's fascinating because 308 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,680 when we did our big breakdown of all the Sopranos, I mean, it 309 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,079 was it was a lot like The Godfather, and that it really incorporated a 310 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:59,720 lot of elements, the conspiracy element, the geopolitics element, the you know, 311 00:22:59,759 --> 00:23:03,160 the great character development of psychology that's in the Godfather. So I really 312 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:10,599 enjoyed it. But I think that even though it's a tragedy as well. 313 00:23:10,799 --> 00:23:14,000 For you know, all seven or eight seasons. I mean, you're pretty 314 00:23:14,079 --> 00:23:21,920 much you're the character. The viewer is intended to feel like he's part of 315 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,119 Tony's crew. You know, you're on You're You're with Polly Walnuts and all 316 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,759 these guys throughout the whole, you know, all of their escapades all there, 317 00:23:30,319 --> 00:23:33,759 and so you're you feel like you're part of the family. I think 318 00:23:33,759 --> 00:23:37,160 that was what the show was really trying to do, and it was successful 319 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,880 in doing that, and everybody's rooting for Tony even though Tony is a psychopath, 320 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:47,799 absolutely right. I mean he's consistently I mean, and to be fair, 321 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,640 we're we're told that he's that way essentially because of his mother. Right, 322 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,000 So he has this it's a sort of a Freudian relationship to his mother, 323 00:23:56,599 --> 00:24:04,160 where because she was so controlling, it created this Freud has a word 324 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,400 for this. I'm trying to remember the name of it, like the the 325 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,599 Mommy's Son dialectic problem. I forget what it's called. But I was just 326 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,279 watching a Jordan Peterson lecture on Freud and he was talking about this. I 327 00:24:15,279 --> 00:24:19,160 think it's true. But anyway, the point is that what you see in 328 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:23,599 the micro cosm of the figure of Tony, who, if I recall, 329 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:29,799 didn't have a good father figure, Well, his father was a vicious psychopath 330 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:34,519 too, that's it exactly, So it perpetuates. Yeah, the psychopathy perpetuates, 331 00:24:36,039 --> 00:24:41,480 the mom is a controlling psycho witch, and then that produces Tony. 332 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,759 And so what I'm saying is that on the macro scale, if you were 333 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:52,200 an evil social engineers, psychopath technocrat, you would want society to be, 334 00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:56,200 you know, flooded with these kinds of stories. Again, I'm not knocking 335 00:24:56,319 --> 00:25:00,640 the quality of The Godfather. I think it's great as a as a story, 336 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:06,160 but to have so much of this everywhere where everybody's a psycho, everybody's 337 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,880 a serial killer, the sociopest's always the hero, I think. Yet in 338 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:17,519 cual case, the idea it can use fiction to promote the very problems that 339 00:25:18,319 --> 00:25:22,440 Tony is experiencing, because if society loses the family unit, then we're all 340 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:30,240 going to basically be raised by failed dads and raised by single moms. Yeah 341 00:25:30,319 --> 00:25:33,720 right, which we've basically had a generation of that, and it produces a 342 00:25:33,759 --> 00:25:37,640 lot of you know, kind of psycho gen Z type people, right, 343 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:47,880 Ozark particularly but certainly Sopranos and Breaking Bad. They have children, and they 344 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,200 bring their children into the crimes. At Sopranos, he tries not to. 345 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,680 We never see that evolve, but you can see it happening to the Sun, 346 00:25:53,880 --> 00:26:00,160 especially near the end. But Ozark and they Ozark, they bring their 347 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,319 children in very young into the crime crime family. So again, and this 348 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,960 happens in a lot of uh these mafia stories too, that's just what they're 349 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:12,960 supposed to do next. So there's also that level of the family involved in 350 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,079 these crimes. And it's it's really I just feel like it's really it's normalizing 351 00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:22,920 this kind of behavior. And then you see more and more. Look, 352 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,440 we have all this stuff coming into our country. We have a major trafficking 353 00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:29,920 issue, we have a major drug issue, we have major you know, 354 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,839 criminality. We don't know what's coming across the border. And we're seeing more 355 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:40,200 and more I think criminality be normalized in real life. And yet we've been 356 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,920 watching it for years. These seemingly normal families from outside and you see behind 357 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,400 the curtain and they're straight up all psychopaths that you know, have given up 358 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,359 on God. There's even a whole part of Dexter, where he's trying to 359 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,880 figure out if there's a god and just resigns it to know. So it's 360 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:02,559 like, it's this, it's this inn We did a show before on predictive 361 00:27:02,599 --> 00:27:04,680 programming, but this is a whole different level of that. I think, 362 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,720 yeah, I think this is tooling. And I have commented a little bit 363 00:27:10,759 --> 00:27:15,400 on this. We haven't covered this specific topic, but tweaking the archetypes, 364 00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:22,240 right, Tweaking the archetypes would be great for breaking bed, wouldn't it. 365 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:29,640 For sure? Tweaking the archetypes such that the archetype of say, you know, 366 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,519 the classical masculine hero figure like you see in you know, eighties action 367 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,119 movies with Bruce Willis or something like that, right, tweak that to be 368 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,720 like you said, like Dexter, Hannibal, And I was thinking more about 369 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,440 Hannibal. I have seen the first season of Ozark, so I understand what 370 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,279 you're saying with Ozark. That's that's a great example. I haven't seen Dexter, 371 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,720 but in the TV show Hannibal. One thing that surprised me was that 372 00:27:52,759 --> 00:28:00,720 in the first season they intentionally chose for one the FB guy. I forget 373 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:06,279 exec what's role is but the Will character who's kind of like aiding Laurence Fishburne 374 00:28:06,279 --> 00:28:08,920 and trying to figure out who's doing the murders. Will is a spurg like 375 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:18,039 he literally has Aspergers, so they have him with that deficiency in his character, 376 00:28:18,839 --> 00:28:23,079 and he's going to Hannibal for therapy and you know, hey, I 377 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:29,400 have to deal with you know, all these bloodied bodies everywhere. Can you 378 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,240 help me doctor, you know, doctor Lecter to sort out my problems? 379 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:40,079 And all it's doing is basically allowing Hannibal to learn everything about the psyche of 380 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:45,359 Will so that he can't be caught by Will. And he's actually programming Will, 381 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,720 getting Will to believe, oh maybe you're a serial killer in training as 382 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,319 well, Will, So he's manipulating and using Will saying, you know, 383 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,720 it's kind of like a member, doesn't Heath Ledgers say something like that to 384 00:28:57,799 --> 00:29:02,000 Batman, like, oh yeah, and dark just like me. You know 385 00:29:02,079 --> 00:29:03,559 you have what I have. You're just like me, You're the second. 386 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:10,000 What I think is going on here is exactly normalizing this take on a massive 387 00:29:10,039 --> 00:29:12,680 scale. And it's like the movies are the villains telling all of us, 388 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,079 you'll just like me, right right? I mean, because it's so because 389 00:29:18,119 --> 00:29:22,319 you feel like you know these people. The quality of this content, I 390 00:29:22,359 --> 00:29:26,519 feel like is really really good that you feel like you know them. And 391 00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:30,599 then and then what happens with predictive programming and this stuff is when you're in 392 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,599 real life and have to make real life choices, I think people start to 393 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,720 think in terms of, well, you know, I went through those twelve 394 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,319 months, what would Dexter do in this sewage? That's a great example. 395 00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:47,039 Yeah, I mean, isn't that what have you seen Season one of Hannibal? 396 00:29:47,519 --> 00:29:52,720 Yeah? I did, Yeah, it's the scene. It's been a 397 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,319 few months since I watched it too, But isn't that what Hannibal's doing. 398 00:29:56,319 --> 00:30:02,559 He's like, he's leading Will down this primrose pipe piper path right right right? 399 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:03,880 And then I think at the end of season one, they're starting to 400 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,400 figure out, hey, wait, maybe it's this guy. Maybe. And 401 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,839 then you take it from what's happening in the show what is happening to the 402 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,480 audience? I mean, and then you know, even when when James Gandolfini 403 00:30:15,559 --> 00:30:18,000 died in real life, I feel like people felt like a family member died, 404 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:23,319 like it was it was on a massive scale. I A. And 405 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,680 so you know there's that there's that disconnect. Also, part of it might 406 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,079 also be the weird thing is that when we were younger, I was saying 407 00:30:30,079 --> 00:30:33,440 this to somebody the other day. It would end on Sunday night, and 408 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,160 you'd see the next season next Sunday, you know, or the next next 409 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:42,960 show. Now you can watch an entire series of this and feel like you're 410 00:30:44,039 --> 00:30:47,680 intimately involved, and like you said, like in the Sopranos, part of 411 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,400 the writing was that you watching it felt like you were in on their team, 412 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,559 you were with them. So there's like another level of that. Now. 413 00:30:53,559 --> 00:30:56,640 A lot of this has to do with suspension of disbelief about it, 414 00:30:56,759 --> 00:31:00,279 but it's happening in real life. It's not on this it's not in the 415 00:31:00,359 --> 00:31:04,319 movie. I feel like a lot of this behavior is transferring into our culture 416 00:31:04,359 --> 00:31:07,720 and into how people act. One good example, I don't know if you've 417 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,359 seen this lately, but ice Cube is arguing with people online and so are 418 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:18,480 other people about whether gangster rap had an influence on the black community. But 419 00:31:18,599 --> 00:31:23,920 I don't see how you don't look at from Public Enemy and Snoop Dogg and 420 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:30,160 all of that to what happened to the black young guys that either became that 421 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,920 that was their goal or you know, something else was. But it did. 422 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,279 He's saying it didn't. But again that's what I'm saying about culture, 423 00:31:37,359 --> 00:31:41,440 because I think that's an example of or even the Kardashians and all the girls 424 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:47,039 that now are Instagram Oh absolutely does. Absolutely. Yeah. So you look 425 00:31:47,079 --> 00:31:52,880 at this dynamic and you think, well, are people emulating that now they 426 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,920 think being a drug dealer or cooking meth or running a gang or is you 427 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,880 can also too have a very normal life and family. I mean, it's 428 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:07,640 very odd. It's a great point. Yeah, and there was a there 429 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,240 were stories that came out that and I think it's credible. I don't know 430 00:32:10,279 --> 00:32:14,759 if it was ever one percent verified, but there's mainstream stories that came out 431 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:22,160 that gangster at was actually okayed by high level executives and intelligence people as a 432 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,440 form of cultural warfare. And to me, that's not surprising at all, 433 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:30,200 because you know Huxley and the CIA and all of that, which I've covered 434 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,960 at nauseum. I mean, they basically said we're going to do this in 435 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,119 the nineteen sixties, right for the white people, for the white culture, 436 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:43,279 through the LSD and all that stuff. So you had the sixties kind of 437 00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:46,960 cultural revolution, and I think that for black people that was rolled out as 438 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:53,920 gangster at as a cultural toxifying control mechanism. And you know, Tavostok studies 439 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,880 this kind of stuff all the time. This is literally what they do. 440 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,240 They study culture and tweaking. And I mean, it's crazy to think this 441 00:33:01,319 --> 00:33:08,319 way, but I just downloaded a paper from Tavistock that doctor Coleman mentions from 442 00:33:08,559 --> 00:33:16,359 seventies or eighties, and it was talking about doing specific types of things in 443 00:33:16,519 --> 00:33:21,599 pop songs to mind control people, to like, to get them to do 444 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,559 and to steer them in certain directions through pop music and through the Billboard Top 445 00:33:25,559 --> 00:33:29,559 one hundred. It's an older paper, so it was talking about how to 446 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:35,160 do this in the seventies or eighties. But it's one example amongst countless you 447 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:40,519 know, white papers, scientific journals that were actually writing about doing culture control 448 00:33:40,839 --> 00:33:45,880 through things like the top ten, the top twenty, the billboard charts and 449 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,480 all that. It was wild. I mean, I studied this all the 450 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,599 time, and I just learned this one. So this is a new one. 451 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,880 So if you haven't read this, I highly recommend recommittee at three hundred 452 00:33:54,039 --> 00:33:59,880 because there's an old chapter in there where he also talks about that the plan 453 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:07,319 would be to once they destroyed the family as a coherent thing unit or whatever, 454 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:13,119 then they would roll out a lot of the drug culture to the next 455 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,880 level. Right. And so I think that those shows that you're talking about 456 00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:23,159 are promoting the idea, at least at a subtle level, that as society 457 00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:27,559 gets worse and worse, and as there's no jobs and as there's no right, 458 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,800 he's maybe it's time to turn to the rackets, you know exactly now, 459 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,480 That's what I think. I think they're normalizing it, and they're normalizing 460 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:40,079 it on a family level. These are all of these people are family members, 461 00:34:40,119 --> 00:34:43,800 and they all say the same thing. Even for Dexter, it's his 462 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,400 sister he's trying to protect, and the whole time his father is is in 463 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:51,280 his head or there to some extent. But a lot of this is about 464 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,599 being a criminal. You can be a hero too, and I mean a 465 00:34:54,639 --> 00:35:01,360 really bad criminal. And it's also the normalizing of such achopathic behavior to where 466 00:35:01,599 --> 00:35:05,320 you know, if you are cheering for that, and let's say you're watching 467 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,880 it, you know, on streaming, you know, and you're intimately involved 468 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,880 with this and then culture, you've cut off from culture because you know there's 469 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,719 something else I wanted to ask you about that's come up a lot in my 470 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,800 work lately, which is loneliness and kind of Rent who I studied a lot. 471 00:35:21,199 --> 00:35:24,280 She said that she's a whole thing where she says that totalitarianism and what 472 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,880 we're dealing with and talk about a lot. The best time for it to 473 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,239 come in is when people are most lonely and isolated. And I think a 474 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:37,960 lot of people think that social media has brought us closer together, but I 475 00:35:37,079 --> 00:35:40,559 happen to think that it's done quite the opposite. And I think one of 476 00:35:40,599 --> 00:35:46,320 the biggest things afflicting our country and our world is this isolation and loneliness that 477 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:52,119 has been I think made worse by the Internet. Absolutely. I mean, 478 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:59,920 has everybody forgotten like five or six years ago when the Silicon Valley tech nerds 479 00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:05,760 and goons were all saying, sorry, we created Facebook and ruined society. 480 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,079 Yeah, I mean I remember that they were all on the Remember I forget 481 00:36:08,079 --> 00:36:12,719 that the Facebook guy, but there was one that from Facebook, and then 482 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,519 there was another guy, that dude that wors the driver, Jason Lannier, 483 00:36:15,679 --> 00:36:19,920 that's his name, and He's like, stop using social media right now. 484 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,920 It's going to destroy your family and your society. So I think you're absolutely 485 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:30,679 right, And I think that not everybody in tech wants that, But I 486 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:38,119 do think that very manipulative, you know, technocratic individuals knew that and wanted 487 00:36:38,159 --> 00:36:42,239 it out there on purpose. I think, I think so. Yeah. 488 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,599 And and to me, I guess the thing is, and this goes back 489 00:36:45,639 --> 00:36:52,199 to your books, especially the all cult Hollywood books, is we are there's 490 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,079 a battle going on right now. I think even in that realm for uh 491 00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,239 to go back to the other but it's it's being you know things. We 492 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:05,760 still have to find a parallel way to make projects, you know that aren't 493 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,360 along the lines of destroying society from the inside out subconsciously in other ways. 494 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:15,239 And so to me, do you see any I'm not seeing it. I 495 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:16,639 don't know if it's happening. I know a lot of people are trying. 496 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:22,920 I know you have a different perspective, but are we society and culture are 497 00:37:23,039 --> 00:37:28,480 so feel damaged right now. Where do you see the trajectory going? Because 498 00:37:28,559 --> 00:37:37,079 I felt like there would have been a backlash by now your thoughts. That's 499 00:37:37,119 --> 00:37:39,760 a tough one. I mean, you know, in the last say, 500 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:45,880 three or four years, I got into more and more into horror as a 501 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:52,360 genre and psychological thrillers. I don't mean like human centipede type, not that, 502 00:37:53,199 --> 00:37:57,480 more of the supernatural thrillers and this kind of stuff, because what was 503 00:37:57,519 --> 00:38:01,880 interesting was that that was one of the last genres to still not be woke. 504 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,639 And then now what we're seeing is that in the last three or four 505 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,199 years, more and more woke horror is coming out, and I think the 506 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:15,599 stories are really formulaic, and they're they're really dumb, and they're I mean 507 00:38:15,639 --> 00:38:19,079 there I know that every movie we have a degree of suspension disbelief, but 508 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,840 I mean it's getting to the point where it's like woke horror is just ridiculous. 509 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:29,760 It doesn't achieve the effect of horror except that they're all horrible, which 510 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:34,119 is horrific. So but I mean that was one of the and I kind 511 00:38:34,119 --> 00:38:38,760 of watched that genre kind of go completely woke because I was just getting into 512 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:45,280 a lot of good supernatural psychological thrillers in the last four or five years that 513 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,679 I had never seen. So there's still every now and then, there's still 514 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,039 a decent I think any horror movie that comes out that's pretty good. And 515 00:38:52,079 --> 00:38:55,159 a lot of times I think they also weeded out people. I mean, 516 00:38:55,199 --> 00:38:59,119 I saw it happen when I'm still there in the two thousands, but this 517 00:38:59,159 --> 00:39:01,400 is what happened. I believe even our military, in our FBI, in 518 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:07,559 our government, is that they've weeded out the real creatives and talents that would 519 00:39:07,599 --> 00:39:09,840 stand for their work. I mean, Shyamalan is one of the people. 520 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:14,039 I'm sure you've watched some of his stuff. He seemed to hold on as 521 00:39:14,079 --> 00:39:16,679 long as he could. But you know, it's funny that you say that, 522 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:25,199 because I was just thinking about the other day how the whole medium has 523 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:30,159 been so hijacked, and I'm surprised there's not a backlash. I think the 524 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:35,599 I think the strike on both fronts was good, but you know, we 525 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,559 kind of have to go back to what is it about and what are we 526 00:39:37,679 --> 00:39:43,440 making here? I really I feel like there's a whole world of renaissance because 527 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,199 I have friends that tried to or we're working on a and these are the 528 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:51,599 true story about Latino gangs, and they were even going in and oh, 529 00:39:51,679 --> 00:39:53,559 Amazon was like, no, no, you got to change this character. 530 00:39:53,639 --> 00:39:57,000 You can't have this in it. You can't have that in it, and 531 00:39:57,199 --> 00:40:00,519 it seems like there's a backlash happening. But it's going to be in the 532 00:40:00,559 --> 00:40:05,079 independent realm to some extent. But I feel like nobody's buying it. But 533 00:40:05,159 --> 00:40:07,000 here's the other thing, Jay, it used to be about making money. 534 00:40:07,039 --> 00:40:09,880 It's not about me. It's not about making money anymore. Even about that. 535 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:14,000 Yeah, that's wild, yeah, because I think you know, you 536 00:40:14,039 --> 00:40:19,559 look at somebody like a Sound of Freedom, which wasn't a huge production in 537 00:40:19,639 --> 00:40:22,719 terms of money, but you know, it basically within a couple of days 538 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:28,960 beat out the new Indiana Jones movie, which is wild, right, and 539 00:40:29,039 --> 00:40:34,639 so people and the money actually would be for those kinds of projects. But 540 00:40:36,039 --> 00:40:38,119 like, to me, the only thing that explains it is like it's the 541 00:40:38,159 --> 00:40:42,960 same in the other arenas, like the corporate world, where it's like, 542 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,119 well, when these companies go whoa, it does damage their stock price and 543 00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:50,559 their bottom line, and they still keep doing it. It's like they don't 544 00:40:50,559 --> 00:40:53,519 even care. So it's like there's another agenda at work, right, which 545 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:58,920 is saying, you do it anyway, we don't care if you don't make 546 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:00,440 money, you keep doing it. So it almost as like a cult, 547 00:41:00,559 --> 00:41:05,199 right, Yeah, it does. And that's the thing. I hope people 548 00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,760 realize that a lot of this is by design. You have to find your 549 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,679 own, your own avenues to create. I know a lot of people are 550 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:17,599 trying, and it's not easy though, to break this hold that evil I 551 00:41:17,639 --> 00:41:22,400 seem I think has has on most of the arts at the moment. But 552 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,400 I see, I see hope there. And so what are you working on 553 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,719 right now that people can follow you and watch and check out your work. 554 00:41:31,559 --> 00:41:36,639 Let's see well. I hosts fourth hour Bollox shows every Friday still, so 555 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,639 you can catch me there at that show. We've been doing a lot of 556 00:41:39,679 --> 00:41:47,239 responses to Muslim stuff, Islamic arguments and debates I've been doing. We did 557 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:53,159 a breakdown of the recent Creator movie, which it was super woke and goofy. 558 00:41:53,519 --> 00:41:57,039 I mean, it had some potential. First act I thought was pretty 559 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,440 sorry, this is gonna be all right, but then it went off into 560 00:41:59,679 --> 00:42:04,679 the same old stuff that you expect from the big, big Hollywood productions. 561 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,320 Now, you know, it's interesting. I want to stop you because I 562 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,039 just I just read this artist this Martin Scorsese was doing an interview and he 563 00:42:10,119 --> 00:42:15,079 said that, uh, that the the that they weren't making anything but superhero 564 00:42:15,079 --> 00:42:20,880 films like obviously DC comics and Marvel and everything that it made made. He 565 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,719 was saying, I I don't think i'd make movies if I started now in 566 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:29,840 this environment. They're they're even taking away the desire to be creative. But 567 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:34,679 also I keep talking about those superhero films, especially because there is no when 568 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,719 when when all hell breaks loose, it's not the human that saves himself, 569 00:42:38,159 --> 00:42:43,760 there's no These aren't those those hero and champion and standing up from the inside 570 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,440 that make who made filmmaking great and powerful. It's now from the outside, 571 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,920 and this is you know, it goes along the same lines. Yeah, 572 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,159 it's a new kind of religion. I think that they're replacing since people have 573 00:42:55,280 --> 00:43:00,760 left the idea of God and Western religion and all that, the replacing it 574 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,840 with these new stories which are essentially the you know, the comic book characters, 575 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,519 and it's like the Greek gods that are back basically through through comic books. 576 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:14,599 Yeah, and I think that is by design because they can control that 577 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:19,800 and then slip in the social engineering through the big you know, Marvel and 578 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,800 DC movies. Absolutely, so that's what it's there to do. I think. 579 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,280 And yeah, so you can follow me at my website and I am 580 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,840 working on the third Escot there Colleywood books so great, so that's coming out. 581 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:32,840 I got a question for you as a as a female, do you 582 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:39,800 miss like the strong, masculine action hero character. Oh, one hundred percent. 583 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,280 I can't stand. I think it's I think the garbage now. And 584 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,400 you know what's so sad because I am a writer and I've been for twenty 585 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,599 years. There's a lot of good content out there that they won't even touch 586 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,840 because they don't want that. And I think we miss it. I think 587 00:43:54,960 --> 00:44:00,840 society needs it, and I think it's real and now it's been and uh 588 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:05,079 washed out to a point like even while we're talking about about these psychopaths that 589 00:44:05,119 --> 00:44:09,239 are heroes, used to be the cop or the FBI agent or the or 590 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:14,119 the doctor or whoever that that was the hero. And uh, yeah, 591 00:44:14,199 --> 00:44:15,840 I do miss it. I missed the whole I miss the whole feeling of 592 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:21,760 getting up after a movie and feeling moved and inspired or horrified or whatever it 593 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,599 is. When I was in school, it was like the goal was when 594 00:44:23,639 --> 00:44:27,519 somebody at the end of the movie, when it went black, you wanted 595 00:44:27,519 --> 00:44:30,519 people to not be able to talk because they were too busy thinking about what 596 00:44:30,559 --> 00:44:34,079 they just digested. We don't have that right now, and I miss it, 597 00:44:34,119 --> 00:44:36,159 and I miss the whole. I wish that we would just take it 598 00:44:36,199 --> 00:44:40,079 all back. I do feel that we're in like a god biblical spiritual moment. 599 00:44:40,119 --> 00:44:44,159 I keep saying to people, you are living through something that is going 600 00:44:44,199 --> 00:44:46,960 to be in the history books forever right now, and you're not treating it 601 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,159 that way, and you're not finding how you're going to be a part of 602 00:44:51,199 --> 00:44:52,840 it. And when people look back on this time, even while you're talking 603 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:59,320 about about strong male figures and in entertainment, even like where we're where are 604 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,920 these people? Where are the men standing up? So yeah, I miss 605 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,079 that and I feel like it's by design. I mean, I honestly feel 606 00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:08,519 like it has your books Esoteria, Hollywood. I have to tell you this 607 00:45:08,559 --> 00:45:12,840 is all by design, and you really break that down. And I wanted 608 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,119 people to come back on and be reminded of you and your work so that 609 00:45:15,159 --> 00:45:19,360 they're not because I just read this document and I'm sure you saw it. 610 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,159 If you didn't, I'll send it to you. It's from NATO. It's 611 00:45:22,159 --> 00:45:27,840 called cognitive warfare, the battles of the brain. I've done podcasts on that. 612 00:45:28,199 --> 00:45:30,480 I'm going to have you back on about it, because that's what I 613 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:37,559 think we're dealing with, dealing with exactly. This is Hollywood is callgnitive warfare. 614 00:45:37,559 --> 00:45:38,679 And so if you want to, yeah, you can get my books 615 00:45:38,679 --> 00:45:43,000 at my website in the shop at Jason Alsos dot com and all the companies 616 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,679 are signed, so you can get that there. Yeah. I think people 617 00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:50,559 really have to understand that what you consume is consuming you. And yeah, 618 00:45:50,599 --> 00:45:54,519 we really have to be very aware. And Jay Dyer somebody has done incredible 619 00:45:54,559 --> 00:45:59,840 work on this, and uh, start protecting your brain because they're really after 620 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:04,360 your brain, right Jay, Yeah, absolutely, and your soul exactly, 621 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,239 I know, through your brain. Jay Diary's awesome. All his links are 622 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,920 below. Thank you so much for joining me again. I really appreciate it, 623 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:15,559 and I think your work is incredible. Get Jay's books and go subscribe 624 00:46:15,599 --> 00:46:17,280 to him at rock Finn or on his website or wherever you find him. 625 00:46:17,559 --> 00:46:23,599 It's unending brain good, good for your brain as opposed to what you're getting 626 00:46:23,599 --> 00:46:25,719 everywhere else. Thank you so much, sir, Thank you