Welcome back to the Melkay Show. Many of you know my guests today.
He has written amazing books and knows so much about so much history and philosophy
and everything. And if you are not following Jay Dyer, you should be.
Thank you for joining me, sir. Thank you, Mel glad to
be back. It's been a while since we had a conversation, and we
always have pretty good deep dives, so I'm glad to be back. Oh,
thank you so much. I so admire your work. Also, I
spent, as most people know, twenty years as a writer in la and
so when I first read it. You have two volumes about occult Hollywood that
are really I mean, things that people know but used to go so far
into it. And you can't really once you read one of your books,
you can't unsee what you see in front of you. And you're very good
at breaking down. You've done amazing work on also deconstructing tragedy and Hope,
which is a very hard book to read, but we'll give a lot of
people insight. And in many other ways. You're also you know, I
have so much work on philosophy and religion, and all of this stuff is
kind of coming to a head, like from when you started your podcast to
now, so much of it has become common knowledge. And I was watching
recently some of your work, So just talk a little bit about where you
are right now in this in this crazy kind of inverted world we're living in.
Well, lately, I've been covering a lot of the bizarre. So
I've been doing some streams on you know, supposed paranormal phenomenon. I mean,
I think that sometimes that happens, and those are just those are more
fun streams. So we've been having fun with that. I've been doing a
lot of streams. We always do our movie streams at least once a week.
We've been We've been pretty consistent with that from many years. So we've
been covering like deeper themes in a lot of the pop poppy stuff like Pirates
of the Caribbean. We did a whole show on that. We did we
did a breakdown of Right now, we're doing My Buddy and I breakdown to
The Godfather the not just the films because I've kind of done those many times.
We're actually doing the novel, the whole novel, and we're halfway through
it right now. On a weekly book Club Breakdown, and it actually fits
in perfectly with what we're talking about today. But yeah, I mean beyond
that, I'm always covering history, geopolitics. I did a lecture on Marxism
recently in the History of Dialectics. So so we're pretty consistent with movies.
ID broke down, Oppenheimer and Barbie, you know, all the all the
recent things that I think are interesting, we've broken those down. Yeah,
and you're you're great at it. And I mean, honestly, uh,
being a trained screenwriter, a lot of people don't see a lot of this
stuff that you tend to see, which is really the script. There's nothing
in any movie that isn't there on purpose. It is very well thought out,
multiple takes. There's no accidents in filmmaking or TV. And you're great
at that. And that's interesting that you're reading The Godfather, the actual book
right now, because that is what I am working on. So I've put
my whole life, like a lot of people, on hold, and went
to ended up doing this show. But I had had a project that is
a true story, kind of mafia based, and the protagonist is a bad
guy who really really wishes that he wasn't but he was, I believe born
that way and it's in his blood and it is slowed or whatever. And
it's been a journey. It's been a five year journey on writing that project.
But I went back during the COVID and I watched five series that are
related to some extent to the storyline and the subject matter in some ways.
They had them being breaking bad Better Call Saul Sopranos Ozark. And now I'm
finishing up Dexter as I and I watched it from the pilot as a writer
to the last episode, every one of these in the last five months,
and I have to tell you, I was thinking about it, and I
thought, I want to ask Jaye Dyer's take on this, because what I
realized was, in every single one of these shows, we are dealing with
very, very in most cases evil sociopaths that have no conscience and create so
much hardship and tragedy around them, and yet as an audience member or somebody
sitting at home, we root for them. And I was wondering, you
know, what is this doing and what is this doing to society? That
I am so upset when I think Dexter is almost going to get caught that.
I'm like, I'm thinking of all the ways, or Jimmy from Better
Call Saul, and You're thinking, but what they do is so despicable,
and in my head I've rationalized that they should get away with it. Do
you see anything in that? Absolutely? Uh. I mean, like I
was telling you, I don't think anybody has done a podcast on this,
so I thought you had a really great idea. I have to confess though,
and I know this is kind of embarrassing, but a couple of these
shows I've not seen, so I'm not actually I'm not actually seen Breaking Bad.
I'm one of the few people out there that have not watched it.
And it's not because I'm not interested in it. It's because it was once
I got really going with what I do. It's really hard to commit to
like a super long show like that. Yeah, but we do. I
have done it sometimes, like we did full We did a full breakdown of
the Sopranos a couple of years ago, and so that's still fresh in my
mind. I know it very well. I have been watching Hannibal. That's
my psychos serial killer series, and that's kind of similar to Dexter because,
as you know, you know, the premise of Dexter is a serial killer,
you know, catching serial killers. But it's kind of the same with
Hannibal, because Hannibal, at first, you know he's actually working with the
FBI to help catch the bad guys. Of course, we find out that
he's really in the background as the puppet Master. But if you go back
to the nineties, and I would say we can go back even further into
you know, old noir films, where we start to see the emergence of
the what I think begins as the dark hero archetype, which I don't have
a problem with Batman as the dark hero. You know, he's got a
a trauma in his past and it helps him be the dark hero. You
know that I don't have a you know that that makes for an interesting character
and the character development. Sure that's ancient, you know, literary technique,
but you're absolutely right that we started seeing more and more of a shift away
from not just a character whether trauma and is pasted or a flawed hero,
but we're more and more so the bad guy is actually the good guy.
The bad guys the protagonist. We're on his side. We want to see.
So there are certain films in the forties and fifties where they started having
you know, the plot shift to where it was we're on the side of
the villain, watching to see if he would get away. One of these
is that we just recently watched was White Heat, where you're following James Cagney
throughout the movie and you're wondering when they get to this big climax and had
the shootout at the chemical plant. You know's how's he going to get out
of this? He's he's gotten out of everything so far, and then he
ends up with this just wow, right, and the whole thing blows up.
So it's almost like a nihilistic just you know, let's just rip it
all down kind of story. But it was a very gripping It's a very
gripping film for you know, forties or whatever. If I know, you've
probably seen it, but for the audience that they haven't seen. I had
not seen that. So because my wife and I've been watching a lot of
old movies lately from the forties and fifties, we are noticing a lot of
early trends and patterns that you know were normal today, but we're like rare
event right, Like Sunset Boulevard is rare because it's a tragedy. But I
mean, you could argue the protagonist is actually you know Norma Desmond, the
psycho uh, you know Hollywood actress who you know is no longer in movies
because she's in this delusional world because she was a silent film star and now
she's basically going insane. She's dissociating, she has an associated break down,
she has alters. It was a very early presentation of alters in film.
I know that Hitchcock, Strangers on the Train, Psycho presents alters in films.
So key, I think key kickoff here, James Cagney characters, a
lot of Joan Crawford characters are actually psychotic protagonist them fatals who has she She's
either a victim who claws her way to the top or she's the evil mastermind
clawing her way to the top and you're rooting for her. And she pretty
much always played the psycho woman character throughout her career because they said she was
really that way in real life. They made that one movie about her with
des Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I'm rambling, but yeah,
I'm thinking back to these old movies where we started seeing villains as the
protagonist, which was a new kind of thing. And then I think you
can get up into like, you know, The Godfather was a key one
for this as well, because being into the novel now it's fresh in my
mind. I've seen the movies many many times. Even though the I think
ultimately the message of The Godfather's positive because the story is basically a warning about
the temptations of if you live your life for greed and power at all costs.
The thing that you were saying it was for Oh, it's for the
family. It's for the good of the things. It's always for the family.
And then how does Michael end up? A lot of people hate on
Godfather Three, but how does Michael end up in Godfather Three? He's alone
and he's lost his daughter, so he doesn't so all of this work to
build this empire and the family's gone, it's just him. I think that,
you know, the movie gets the third movie gets all of Hey,
but I thought, actually think that's a pretty good message. And I think
that, you know, people said that the message of Puzo's novel is you
know, ultimately positive. So anyway, I don't want to talk too much
here, But yeah, and I think what you're saying though is what I
what I'm seeing too, And this is important. This is why you know
people that don't understand that, you know, when you're talking about the archetypes,
this is a very different situation because what you are saying right now.
I noticed in all five of the things that I cited is they're always saying
it's about the family. And the other thing is there's so much money involved,
especially and the only one that they end up looking like they're going to
get away with it, but you don't know because it was arc ends right
there. But is that movie because none of them enjoy the finite the money
that they make at all, everyone around them suffers and all of that.
But yet I wonder what it's doing to the audience because it's one project for
this and then I'll tell you, you and I both know it's all bs
the awards season, these movie these shows are also the ones that win the
awards too, So it's there's an effort, I feel like to normalize sociopathy
and psychopathy as normal, and I wonder. I think that it has to
be permeating in culture because instead of being it's not one's, there's this is
the new model I feel like for these one hour dramas, so they are.
I don't I haven't read a specific Tavistock study on doing this, but
I would be willing to bet that they've absolutely studied the arts to the inn
degree such that they would come to the conclusion that one way to effectively change
the culture in this direction would be to invert the hero and make the villain
the hero and make the hero a psychopath. And as we got up in
to say eighties and nineties, we started seeing the popular genre of the serial
killer explode, right, I mean, Hannibal comes out. I remember in
the nineties, you know, you had the State of Them come out.
There was seven and there was California with Brad Pitt and Juliette Lewis. There
was Hannibal, right, Boonted Lambs. So we started seeing in the nineties
this explosion and that it was very different from the eighties because the eighties still
had the strong masculine hero archetype figure. And in the nineties we started getting,
oh, but what about the overlooked serial killer? Right, but what
about the complexities of the serial killer? Helping to solve the crimes. And
then we start to you know, to see this getting more and more prevalent.
I think you started noticing a lot of at the same time, very
bizarre horror started flooding into the West. For example, really gross jap In
horror. I remember the nineties, it started getting really popular and they started
you know, like the almost like the torture level stuff, right I saw
in a hostel. You know that wasn't it exactly, But a lot of
it was like specifically Japanese influenced, like because I was getting very popular in
the nineties. I remember, was because I was really into film even back
in the nineties as a teenager, and they started remaking you know, weird
Japanese horror movies into Western you know, the Naomi watched The Ring. I
mean, the Ring isn't like that grows, but it's it's an example of
where they was. They started making those Japanese horror movies that are at times
pretty gross and disgusting, and they were really they wanted to push you know,
the envelope. Right, So if we've already pushed the envelope in a
lot of ways, how do we do it now? Well, let's start
having human centipede and there's really disgusting things that pushed the envelope in a in
an attack on the human body way, I think, and going along with
that, as you said, is this figure of the psychopath. I also
have to admit that, you know, something I've studied in grad school.
James Bond is is actually one of the key archetypal switch figures that we could
point to where the psychopath is now the hero. Even though in the movies
you could argue at times he has morals, he wants to subtle down,
he doesn't want to be a hit man. They but in the novels,
you know, Ian Fleming makes it clear and it comes out in many of
the film presentations as well, that he's just a killing machine. He doesn't
have any compunction. So, actually, James bond is a psychopath sociopath type
of figure as well, and I think he might have also pioneered in many
ways the same archetype of the serial killer. I mean, he is in
many ways a serial killer, right, you know, because and a lot
of the work that you've done in the past as well, you talk about
kind of this class of people that are you know the superclass that I really
don't. They don't see the humanity the same. Their conscience is not the
same. They see themselves as other than. And it's funny. The one
I'm almost done now watching beginning to end its Dexter. And in Dexter,
he doesn't see himself as human. He sees himself as a monster and evil,
and though he puts on the mask. And what's scary is in a
lot of these Ozark the same thing. I saw a lot of this in
Ozark. I see a lot of this in the leaders that have been exposed
in the light in the last you know, five years, certainly last ten
years. Are these people that are they seem to be wearing masks, and
we're accepting that we're seeing one evil thing. I mean, just for an
example, even the whole jeff Jeffrey Epstein thing. We're seeing one evil thing
after another evil thing, and kind of as we do when we're watching these
programs, you kind of are like, well, that's just who they are,
and there's never accountability. They never pay the price, I mean the
Clinton's of course, you know, we're seeing these characters in real life.
Klaus Schwabs of the world and yet it's not a movie and it's not a
TV show, and and and I see some kind of like are we at
a place where we're just accepting real life characters that are exactly you know.
I never watched it, but people were saying at the time, what was
that DC drama that was huge, like Kevin Space, How's the Cards?
How's the Cards? Everybody was saying, oh, this is just like DC.
And but I didn't watch it, but people were making that if you've
seen it, would you say that that's an example of that. Yeah.
I already couldn't stand him because I knew too much when I was still in
it. So it was hard to watch him because I saw I felt like
I was watching a psychopath. But I have to say, yeah, I
see that. But and now I think that it's become so like like we're
kind of as if we're always watching a movie and here's all these people that
Tony Soprano is one that you really dug into on your show, accepted that
they are them, and therefore we are letting it go. We're at a
place where now we go after I know you've said this too, and I
said all that we're going after agencies and you know, institutions. We never
go after people anymore. People never pay a price, and I feel like
we're conditioned now to be okay with that somehow. Something that this occurred to
me is that probably part of the reason for this would be the mass acceptance
through the education system and through mass media that humans are basically just another type
of biological animal. And if we're biological animals, and if we listen to
people like you know, Sam Harris and uh, you know, Daniel Dennett
and all the big atheist philosophers, they've hammered into everybody for decades that we're
basically just determined machines. And if you're a determined machine through just pure determined
chemical causation and process, you're not accountable for your actions. You can't have
virtue, advice, good and evil free will in a world where everybody is
just a determined chemical process. So it's very hypocritical because all those guys are
always touting morals and they always something how they're more they have, they try
to have moral high ground, but they don't actually have a basis for a
justification for morals themselves, right or wrong. In fact, they're deterministic philosophy
undercuts that. Now, I say that because that's perfectly applicable to the archetype
of the serial killer. In fact, in many serial killer stories, the
serial killer identifies himself as a process of nature and rawbs your force of nature.
Who's not accountable because he's beyond good and evil. That's Nietzschean, right,
right, beyond good and evil. And he's a think of Anton Sugar,
Anton Sugar and the Cohen Brothers. No Country for old Men. Yes,
he walks into the store and he's basically like, you know, choose
flips the coin. If you choose wrong, I kill you because it was
a process and I'm just I'm just one link in the chain. Right.
Also, I just remembered I forget which one it is because I get all
these mixed up in my head. But the Hannibal sequel, uh, the
one with Ray Fine where he's the serial killer. Yes, Remember he's got
that giant tattoo in his back, and he thinks he's involved in a ritual
process whereby he's going to achieve apotheosis. He's going to become God, he
thinks. But he also believes that he's the next phase of evolution, and
a lot of these serial killers present themselves, I mean in the stories and
what you read in the real stories as well of serial killers in the movies
and in the in the fictional presentations. They think that they're the next phase
of human evolution, right, Yeah, So that's I think a big part
of what's going on is that this idea of I'm at the top of the
food chain, I'm the next phase of you know, the levels of godhood,
so to speak. And they think that because they think, well,
the world is just predator. Oh I'm what I was going to play the
first the eighties Hannibal story, the first one Manhunter oh right, yeah,
man and Manhunter. They keep referring to him as a wild beast. There's
these references, these symbolic images. They'll even show like this tiger at one
point, and he the beast is a reference to him because we're just beasts.
Right, that's the first Hannibal. Oh okay, Wine Hunter is the
FBI serial killer show, Oh right about the Real Profiler, which was also
very disturbing, exactly perfectly fits into this as well. Yeah, but it's
also this is what I wonder and this is something you write about a lot,
which is they're normalizing this stuff because they watch it and you see you
think, like, you know, because Dexter whole thing is they deserved it
as if he does, if he's you know, doing everyone a favor,
you know. But also in all of these even in the Sopranos, when
they kill somebody, they deserved it and it's okay. And this is translating
into real life. We have a lawless basically society right now that is very,
very violent, and yet I feel like people are desensitized to this violence
after you know, kind of falling in love, having an intimate whether it's
in their brains or not, bond with these characters that you can't wait to
see what they're going to do next, and you know it's going to be
evil and people are going to die and be hurt, but you know,
as long as they get out of it, then I feel good about it.
And it feels like this is what's going on in society right now.
Even in this debate between what just happened this week in with all this horror
and terror and all of that, it still seems like it like we're not
acting like this is real life exactly. I think dehumanization is the key,
right, and if we can all be seen as just animals, because the
serial killer is just the top of the you know, the apex predator,
and yeah, you're right, it's it's Manhunter with William Peterson. It's what
I was thinking of. Okay, yeah, first one and then mind Hunter.
Is that FBI. That's actually the creation of the serial Killer Bureau,
right, which I think is a little that's exaggerated. I also think that
the Serial Killer Bureau contributed to the idea that there was serial killers everywhere.
I think they wanted to foster the idea of oh, actually, you know
everybody is on the spectrum of being a serial killer, right, Like maybe
you only have three percent serial killer, but you still got some serial killer
in it, right, Yes, Yeah, to Tony. Tony's fascinating because
when we did our big breakdown of all the Sopranos, I mean, it
was it was a lot like The Godfather, and that it really incorporated a
lot of elements, the conspiracy element, the geopolitics element, the you know,
the great character development of psychology that's in the Godfather. So I really
enjoyed it. But I think that even though it's a tragedy as well.
For you know, all seven or eight seasons. I mean, you're pretty
much you're the character. The viewer is intended to feel like he's part of
Tony's crew. You know, you're on You're You're with Polly Walnuts and all
these guys throughout the whole, you know, all of their escapades all there,
and so you're you feel like you're part of the family. I think
that was what the show was really trying to do, and it was successful
in doing that, and everybody's rooting for Tony even though Tony is a psychopath,
absolutely right. I mean he's consistently I mean, and to be fair,
we're we're told that he's that way essentially because of his mother. Right,
So he has this it's a sort of a Freudian relationship to his mother,
where because she was so controlling, it created this Freud has a word
for this. I'm trying to remember the name of it, like the the
Mommy's Son dialectic problem. I forget what it's called. But I was just
watching a Jordan Peterson lecture on Freud and he was talking about this. I
think it's true. But anyway, the point is that what you see in
the micro cosm of the figure of Tony, who, if I recall,
didn't have a good father figure, Well, his father was a vicious psychopath
too, that's it exactly, So it perpetuates. Yeah, the psychopathy perpetuates,
the mom is a controlling psycho witch, and then that produces Tony.
And so what I'm saying is that on the macro scale, if you were
an evil social engineers, psychopath technocrat, you would want society to be,
you know, flooded with these kinds of stories. Again, I'm not knocking
the quality of The Godfather. I think it's great as a as a story,
but to have so much of this everywhere where everybody's a psycho, everybody's
a serial killer, the sociopest's always the hero, I think. Yet in
cual case, the idea it can use fiction to promote the very problems that
Tony is experiencing, because if society loses the family unit, then we're all
going to basically be raised by failed dads and raised by single moms. Yeah
right, which we've basically had a generation of that, and it produces a
lot of you know, kind of psycho gen Z type people, right,
Ozark particularly but certainly Sopranos and Breaking Bad. They have children, and they
bring their children into the crimes. At Sopranos, he tries not to.
We never see that evolve, but you can see it happening to the Sun,
especially near the end. But Ozark and they Ozark, they bring their
children in very young into the crime crime family. So again, and this
happens in a lot of uh these mafia stories too, that's just what they're
supposed to do next. So there's also that level of the family involved in
these crimes. And it's it's really I just feel like it's really it's normalizing
this kind of behavior. And then you see more and more. Look,
we have all this stuff coming into our country. We have a major trafficking
issue, we have a major drug issue, we have major you know,
criminality. We don't know what's coming across the border. And we're seeing more
and more I think criminality be normalized in real life. And yet we've been
watching it for years. These seemingly normal families from outside and you see behind
the curtain and they're straight up all psychopaths that you know, have given up
on God. There's even a whole part of Dexter, where he's trying to
figure out if there's a god and just resigns it to know. So it's
like, it's this, it's this inn We did a show before on predictive
programming, but this is a whole different level of that. I think,
yeah, I think this is tooling. And I have commented a little bit
on this. We haven't covered this specific topic, but tweaking the archetypes,
right, Tweaking the archetypes would be great for breaking bed, wouldn't it.
For sure? Tweaking the archetypes such that the archetype of say, you know,
the classical masculine hero figure like you see in you know, eighties action
movies with Bruce Willis or something like that, right, tweak that to be
like you said, like Dexter, Hannibal, And I was thinking more about
Hannibal. I have seen the first season of Ozark, so I understand what
you're saying with Ozark. That's that's a great example. I haven't seen Dexter,
but in the TV show Hannibal. One thing that surprised me was that
in the first season they intentionally chose for one the FB guy. I forget
exec what's role is but the Will character who's kind of like aiding Laurence Fishburne
and trying to figure out who's doing the murders. Will is a spurg like
he literally has Aspergers, so they have him with that deficiency in his character,
and he's going to Hannibal for therapy and you know, hey, I
have to deal with you know, all these bloodied bodies everywhere. Can you
help me doctor, you know, doctor Lecter to sort out my problems?
And all it's doing is basically allowing Hannibal to learn everything about the psyche of
Will so that he can't be caught by Will. And he's actually programming Will,
getting Will to believe, oh maybe you're a serial killer in training as
well, Will, So he's manipulating and using Will saying, you know,
it's kind of like a member, doesn't Heath Ledgers say something like that to
Batman, like, oh yeah, and dark just like me. You know
you have what I have. You're just like me, You're the second.
What I think is going on here is exactly normalizing this take on a massive
scale. And it's like the movies are the villains telling all of us,
you'll just like me, right right? I mean, because it's so because
you feel like you know these people. The quality of this content, I
feel like is really really good that you feel like you know them. And
then and then what happens with predictive programming and this stuff is when you're in
real life and have to make real life choices, I think people start to
think in terms of, well, you know, I went through those twelve
months, what would Dexter do in this sewage? That's a great example.
Yeah, I mean, isn't that what have you seen Season one of Hannibal?
Yeah? I did, Yeah, it's the scene. It's been a
few months since I watched it too, But isn't that what Hannibal's doing.
He's like, he's leading Will down this primrose pipe piper path right right right?
And then I think at the end of season one, they're starting to
figure out, hey, wait, maybe it's this guy. Maybe. And
then you take it from what's happening in the show what is happening to the
audience? I mean, and then you know, even when when James Gandolfini
died in real life, I feel like people felt like a family member died,
like it was it was on a massive scale. I A. And
so you know there's that there's that disconnect. Also, part of it might
also be the weird thing is that when we were younger, I was saying
this to somebody the other day. It would end on Sunday night, and
you'd see the next season next Sunday, you know, or the next next
show. Now you can watch an entire series of this and feel like you're
intimately involved, and like you said, like in the Sopranos, part of
the writing was that you watching it felt like you were in on their team,
you were with them. So there's like another level of that. Now.
A lot of this has to do with suspension of disbelief about it,
but it's happening in real life. It's not on this it's not in the
movie. I feel like a lot of this behavior is transferring into our culture
and into how people act. One good example, I don't know if you've
seen this lately, but ice Cube is arguing with people online and so are
other people about whether gangster rap had an influence on the black community. But
I don't see how you don't look at from Public Enemy and Snoop Dogg and
all of that to what happened to the black young guys that either became that
that was their goal or you know, something else was. But it did.
He's saying it didn't. But again that's what I'm saying about culture,
because I think that's an example of or even the Kardashians and all the girls
that now are Instagram Oh absolutely does. Absolutely. Yeah. So you look
at this dynamic and you think, well, are people emulating that now they
think being a drug dealer or cooking meth or running a gang or is you
can also too have a very normal life and family. I mean, it's
very odd. It's a great point. Yeah, and there was a there
were stories that came out that and I think it's credible. I don't know
if it was ever one percent verified, but there's mainstream stories that came out
that gangster at was actually okayed by high level executives and intelligence people as a
form of cultural warfare. And to me, that's not surprising at all,
because you know Huxley and the CIA and all of that, which I've covered
at nauseum. I mean, they basically said we're going to do this in
the nineteen sixties, right for the white people, for the white culture,
through the LSD and all that stuff. So you had the sixties kind of
cultural revolution, and I think that for black people that was rolled out as
gangster at as a cultural toxifying control mechanism. And you know, Tavostok studies
this kind of stuff all the time. This is literally what they do.
They study culture and tweaking. And I mean, it's crazy to think this
way, but I just downloaded a paper from Tavistock that doctor Coleman mentions from
seventies or eighties, and it was talking about doing specific types of things in
pop songs to mind control people, to like, to get them to do
and to steer them in certain directions through pop music and through the Billboard Top
one hundred. It's an older paper, so it was talking about how to
do this in the seventies or eighties. But it's one example amongst countless you
know, white papers, scientific journals that were actually writing about doing culture control
through things like the top ten, the top twenty, the billboard charts and
all that. It was wild. I mean, I studied this all the
time, and I just learned this one. So this is a new one.
So if you haven't read this, I highly recommend recommittee at three hundred
because there's an old chapter in there where he also talks about that the plan
would be to once they destroyed the family as a coherent thing unit or whatever,
then they would roll out a lot of the drug culture to the next
level. Right. And so I think that those shows that you're talking about
are promoting the idea, at least at a subtle level, that as society
gets worse and worse, and as there's no jobs and as there's no right,
he's maybe it's time to turn to the rackets, you know exactly now,
That's what I think. I think they're normalizing it, and they're normalizing
it on a family level. These are all of these people are family members,
and they all say the same thing. Even for Dexter, it's his
sister he's trying to protect, and the whole time his father is is in
his head or there to some extent. But a lot of this is about
being a criminal. You can be a hero too, and I mean a
really bad criminal. And it's also the normalizing of such achopathic behavior to where
you know, if you are cheering for that, and let's say you're watching
it, you know, on streaming, you know, and you're intimately involved
with this and then culture, you've cut off from culture because you know there's
something else I wanted to ask you about that's come up a lot in my
work lately, which is loneliness and kind of Rent who I studied a lot.
She said that she's a whole thing where she says that totalitarianism and what
we're dealing with and talk about a lot. The best time for it to
come in is when people are most lonely and isolated. And I think a
lot of people think that social media has brought us closer together, but I
happen to think that it's done quite the opposite. And I think one of
the biggest things afflicting our country and our world is this isolation and loneliness that
has been I think made worse by the Internet. Absolutely. I mean,
has everybody forgotten like five or six years ago when the Silicon Valley tech nerds
and goons were all saying, sorry, we created Facebook and ruined society.
Yeah, I mean I remember that they were all on the Remember I forget
that the Facebook guy, but there was one that from Facebook, and then
there was another guy, that dude that wors the driver, Jason Lannier,
that's his name, and He's like, stop using social media right now.
It's going to destroy your family and your society. So I think you're absolutely
right, And I think that not everybody in tech wants that, But I
do think that very manipulative, you know, technocratic individuals knew that and wanted
it out there on purpose. I think, I think so. Yeah.
And and to me, I guess the thing is, and this goes back
to your books, especially the all cult Hollywood books, is we are there's
a battle going on right now. I think even in that realm for uh
to go back to the other but it's it's being you know things. We
still have to find a parallel way to make projects, you know that aren't
along the lines of destroying society from the inside out subconsciously in other ways.
And so to me, do you see any I'm not seeing it. I
don't know if it's happening. I know a lot of people are trying.
I know you have a different perspective, but are we society and culture are
so feel damaged right now. Where do you see the trajectory going? Because
I felt like there would have been a backlash by now your thoughts. That's
a tough one. I mean, you know, in the last say,
three or four years, I got into more and more into horror as a
genre and psychological thrillers. I don't mean like human centipede type, not that,
more of the supernatural thrillers and this kind of stuff, because what was
interesting was that that was one of the last genres to still not be woke.
And then now what we're seeing is that in the last three or four
years, more and more woke horror is coming out, and I think the
stories are really formulaic, and they're they're really dumb, and they're I mean
there I know that every movie we have a degree of suspension disbelief, but
I mean it's getting to the point where it's like woke horror is just ridiculous.
It doesn't achieve the effect of horror except that they're all horrible, which
is horrific. So but I mean that was one of the and I kind
of watched that genre kind of go completely woke because I was just getting into
a lot of good supernatural psychological thrillers in the last four or five years that
I had never seen. So there's still every now and then, there's still
a decent I think any horror movie that comes out that's pretty good. And
a lot of times I think they also weeded out people. I mean,
I saw it happen when I'm still there in the two thousands, but this
is what happened. I believe even our military, in our FBI, in
our government, is that they've weeded out the real creatives and talents that would
stand for their work. I mean, Shyamalan is one of the people.
I'm sure you've watched some of his stuff. He seemed to hold on as
long as he could. But you know, it's funny that you say that,
because I was just thinking about the other day how the whole medium has
been so hijacked, and I'm surprised there's not a backlash. I think the
I think the strike on both fronts was good, but you know, we
kind of have to go back to what is it about and what are we
making here? I really I feel like there's a whole world of renaissance because
I have friends that tried to or we're working on a and these are the
true story about Latino gangs, and they were even going in and oh,
Amazon was like, no, no, you got to change this character.
You can't have this in it. You can't have that in it, and
it seems like there's a backlash happening. But it's going to be in the
independent realm to some extent. But I feel like nobody's buying it. But
here's the other thing, Jay, it used to be about making money.
It's not about me. It's not about making money anymore. Even about that.
Yeah, that's wild, yeah, because I think you know, you
look at somebody like a Sound of Freedom, which wasn't a huge production in
terms of money, but you know, it basically within a couple of days
beat out the new Indiana Jones movie, which is wild, right, and
so people and the money actually would be for those kinds of projects. But
like, to me, the only thing that explains it is like it's the
same in the other arenas, like the corporate world, where it's like,
well, when these companies go whoa, it does damage their stock price and
their bottom line, and they still keep doing it. It's like they don't
even care. So it's like there's another agenda at work, right, which
is saying, you do it anyway, we don't care if you don't make
money, you keep doing it. So it almost as like a cult,
right, Yeah, it does. And that's the thing. I hope people
realize that a lot of this is by design. You have to find your
own, your own avenues to create. I know a lot of people are
trying, and it's not easy though, to break this hold that evil I
seem I think has has on most of the arts at the moment. But
I see, I see hope there. And so what are you working on
right now that people can follow you and watch and check out your work.
Let's see well. I hosts fourth hour Bollox shows every Friday still, so
you can catch me there at that show. We've been doing a lot of
responses to Muslim stuff, Islamic arguments and debates I've been doing. We did
a breakdown of the recent Creator movie, which it was super woke and goofy.
I mean, it had some potential. First act I thought was pretty
sorry, this is gonna be all right, but then it went off into
the same old stuff that you expect from the big, big Hollywood productions.
Now, you know, it's interesting. I want to stop you because I
just I just read this artist this Martin Scorsese was doing an interview and he
said that, uh, that the the that they weren't making anything but superhero
films like obviously DC comics and Marvel and everything that it made made. He
was saying, I I don't think i'd make movies if I started now in
this environment. They're they're even taking away the desire to be creative. But
also I keep talking about those superhero films, especially because there is no when
when when all hell breaks loose, it's not the human that saves himself,
there's no These aren't those those hero and champion and standing up from the inside
that make who made filmmaking great and powerful. It's now from the outside,
and this is you know, it goes along the same lines. Yeah,
it's a new kind of religion. I think that they're replacing since people have
left the idea of God and Western religion and all that, the replacing it
with these new stories which are essentially the you know, the comic book characters,
and it's like the Greek gods that are back basically through through comic books.
Yeah, and I think that is by design because they can control that
and then slip in the social engineering through the big you know, Marvel and
DC movies. Absolutely, so that's what it's there to do. I think.
And yeah, so you can follow me at my website and I am
working on the third Escot there Colleywood books so great, so that's coming out.
I got a question for you as a as a female, do you
miss like the strong, masculine action hero character. Oh, one hundred percent.
I can't stand. I think it's I think the garbage now. And
you know what's so sad because I am a writer and I've been for twenty
years. There's a lot of good content out there that they won't even touch
because they don't want that. And I think we miss it. I think
society needs it, and I think it's real and now it's been and uh
washed out to a point like even while we're talking about about these psychopaths that
are heroes, used to be the cop or the FBI agent or the or
the doctor or whoever that that was the hero. And uh, yeah,
I do miss it. I missed the whole I miss the whole feeling of
getting up after a movie and feeling moved and inspired or horrified or whatever it
is. When I was in school, it was like the goal was when
somebody at the end of the movie, when it went black, you wanted
people to not be able to talk because they were too busy thinking about what
they just digested. We don't have that right now, and I miss it,
and I miss the whole. I wish that we would just take it
all back. I do feel that we're in like a god biblical spiritual moment.
I keep saying to people, you are living through something that is going
to be in the history books forever right now, and you're not treating it
that way, and you're not finding how you're going to be a part of
it. And when people look back on this time, even while you're talking
about about strong male figures and in entertainment, even like where we're where are
these people? Where are the men standing up? So yeah, I miss
that and I feel like it's by design. I mean, I honestly feel
like it has your books Esoteria, Hollywood. I have to tell you this
is all by design, and you really break that down. And I wanted
people to come back on and be reminded of you and your work so that
they're not because I just read this document and I'm sure you saw it.
If you didn't, I'll send it to you. It's from NATO. It's
called cognitive warfare, the battles of the brain. I've done podcasts on that.
I'm going to have you back on about it, because that's what I
think we're dealing with, dealing with exactly. This is Hollywood is callgnitive warfare.
And so if you want to, yeah, you can get my books
at my website in the shop at Jason Alsos dot com and all the companies
are signed, so you can get that there. Yeah. I think people
really have to understand that what you consume is consuming you. And yeah,
we really have to be very aware. And Jay Dyer somebody has done incredible
work on this, and uh, start protecting your brain because they're really after
your brain, right Jay, Yeah, absolutely, and your soul exactly,
I know, through your brain. Jay Diary's awesome. All his links are
below. Thank you so much for joining me again. I really appreciate it,
and I think your work is incredible. Get Jay's books and go subscribe
to him at rock Finn or on his website or wherever you find him.
It's unending brain good, good for your brain as opposed to what you're getting
everywhere else. Thank you so much, sir, Thank you