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A name of the man to that
God, and they say that God came

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in the version of a man and
spoke to people and like all this,

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So can you elaborate on that?
Is that true? Like have like do

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you believe that some humans have seen
God? Well, I mean we don't

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think that, like every sort of
evangelical or person who claims to quote see

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God in a dream necessarily has.
There's a lot of people who are deluded.

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But we would say that in what
we call divine revelation that even throughout

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the revelation to Moses and the Prophets
and in the in the Law, in

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the Torah and in the Prophets,
there's a multiple cases, many many cases

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where God the Father is not revealed, but he does have a manifestation,

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a face, a glory that appears
one like the Son of Man, the

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Angel of the Lord. And we
think that's Jesus, that's the logos.

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So God's son is his face,
is his form, is his glory,

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is his messenger, is his angel, and he does appear. So we

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would say both are true. No
one sees the Father at any time,

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as Jesus says to the Pharisees in
John, but at the same time Moses

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went up on the mountain and saw
the face of God. The face of

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God is the person of Christ.
So in that sense we think that it's

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true and also not true. Okay, I understand, Okay, that makes

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sense. So essentially Jesus is not
just or I would say, Jesus is

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not a persona or a personality or
just a human. It's more so the

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embodiment of us being created in God's
image. And like, no, we

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think he's the eternal son of God. So God, the Father from all

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eternity, has a divine son,
and that divine son is the one who

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stepped into time and space to take
on human nature to save us from from

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death and destruction. And so the
death brown resurrection of Christ joys the power

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of death and human nature to in
the end of time, resurrect Us in

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his image. So Christ is the
perfect image of the Father, and he

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restores what Adam lost in the garden
in the fall. So he's the new

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Adam, the new Man, so
to speak, and we are conformed to

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that by being joined to him in
the church. Okay, I actually agree

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with you as a Muslim, because
I believe that Jesus Christ is going to

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return and be the embodiment of what
a man is supposed to be. And

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right, but you don't believe he's
the son of God. So that's a

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difference. So here's the thing.
Right, In Arabic, the son of

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God can translate to different things.
So I may agree with you, like

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if it's a well no, no, I mean it's not you guys don't

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believe to try to like for example, if you're saying like it's a literal

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physical thing, like, I would
disagree because I would say a father has

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to carry his son in his balls
as semen first and then give birth to

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him by having Now that's sexual intercourse
with a woman, you got, so

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hold on. So it's it's backwards. Jesus wasn't born that way, right,

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So when you say son of God, okay, I get it.

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Yeah, that's easily a title you
can give him because he was born without

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a father, the miracle. So
I think if you use the title son

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of God to glorify the miracle of
him being born without a father, and

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God is his father, then sure
God, surely God the father is everyone's

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father. Right, right, Well
that's not but that's not what we mean.

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Right, So we believe in the
trinity, right, that from all

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eternity God, the Father has eternally
generated his Son, and that that communion

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has had in the person of the
Holy Spirit. So from all eternity,

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Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
are the one true God. That's not

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what Muslims believe. Muslims reject the
Trinity. So that's the difference there,

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right, So we believe in like
the Abrahamic principle of but you don't.

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But you don't though, No,
No, here's the thing. Monotheism is

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a simple concept. No, it's
not worship diam. It's not one God.

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Right, No, it's not.
That's not what monotheism is. Explain

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it to me, right, So
in the Revelation to Abraham, all three

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persons of the triad manifest So Abraham
worships the Trinity, not a generic Unitarian

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God. What does that mean.
It means that that, like if you

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read ironically, I mean, let's
say, let's say we go to like

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Genesis twelve, fifteen, seventeen,
twenty two. In every one of those

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cases where Abraham has an interaction with
God, we see not just a belief

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in a Unitarian deity, but we
see a manifestation or an appearance of God.

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It says in every one of those
chapters that God appeared to Abraham.

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That appearance is the face of God, is the person of the logos,

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is Christ. That's why Jesus fulfills
all the promises to the coven of the

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covenant to Abraham. So, in
other words, if you go and read

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those chapters, you'll notice that it's
not what the Islamic account of Abraham is,

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but rather it says that the word, the logos of the Lord,

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came to Abraham and said, I
will make you exceedingly great. The voice

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of the Lord came to him.
The voice there is the logos, the

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word of God. So the word
of God, the face of God,

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the Son of God, came to
Abraham. Abraham has a meal with this

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angel, this messenger, this son, this Lord that's Jesus. That's not

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a Gabriel, because that Lord,
that angel is worshiped. So this is

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the real trinitarian God revealed to Abraham. And every time you bring this up

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with a Muslim, they suddenly say, all those texts are corrupted, that's

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all corrupt. But the Koran doesn't
actually say that the texts are corrupted.

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That's a later Muslim argument. The
Koran says, to check the revelation of

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the Koran against the prior revelation.
Right, Okay, So I have two

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things to say. The first thing
is Islam comes on a basic, simple

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basis. Okay. It comes on
the basis of here's a holy book from

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God. Yeah, but that's not
actually true. Come on, I mean,

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I'm not trying to be rude.
I'm just explained. Hold on,

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but that's not true. I mean, I've debated every I've debated all the

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top muzzles. It's not true.
It's not true. No, that's your

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belief. I don't believe that.
So give me one. Hold on,

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So do you believe? Hold on? Hold on? Have you read it

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been to me? One? Have
you read it to me? We'll get

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to that. No. But but
what you say is not true. What

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you say is not true. I
promise you I will get to any question.

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You know that there are multiple schools
that debate what the unity of Allah

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is. So it is not true
that there's a simple monothism. That's not

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true. I have to say about
what you said. Okay. One.

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The first one, Islam comes upon
the simple basis of here's a book that

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is holy and complete, and everything
that comes before it is now considered poetic

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literature. That's not true. That's
not what the Koran says. That's not

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true. Let me tell you that's
not true. The Koran doesn't say that.

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Why because the only revelation that has
been preserved in the original language spoken

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by the prophet is the Quran.
But what you just said is not even

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true. The Quran says to check
the revelation of the Koran against prior revelation.

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So that's just what I'm saying directly. What I'm saying directly is the

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prophet that revealed the Holy Book,
each Holy book we consider Prophet Muhammad,

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Peace be upon him. The praised
one means Muhammad, the praised one.

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That's what his name means. Okay, because three billion people today praise him.

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They don't worship him. They praise
him. We should be praising Jesus,

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not worshiping. I know that we've
already had debates with all the top

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Muslims. I know, I know, But this is the point that I'm

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making is that Islam came on the
basis that this is a holy book,

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and we believe that it's the only
complete truth. Because okay, but that's

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your believe that's your belief. But
that's not addressing any of the points on

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this Islamic basis. This is the
simple basis of what Islam comes upon as

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your claims. The Muslims, if
you tell them read the Bible, read

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this. I read the Bible.
But if you tell them these are claims

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the Bible, they're gonna be like, why should I read the Bible?

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I have a Quran, I know
everything. Are you gonna address? So

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this isn't addressing any of the arguments. The Quran doesn't come and say ignore

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all the other books and only read
the Quran. It says the Quran came

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here to confirmed what is before.
Correct, That's what I just said.

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What does that mean? That means
that when you cross reference the Quran with

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all these books, you're gonna find
certain pieces of information that are confirmed and

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in literal proof in the text match
up so versus from the Bible. But

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do you understand that there's giant portions
that don't match up criss cross right,

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all right, So you're not gonna
listen to show up versus that show up

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that are different exactly like you said
that are not crisscrossing, and you're like,

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okay, what are these unique verses
in oron? Those are the verses

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that the kings and the people before
us took out of the Bible and the

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Torah to make it fit. This
is your assertion. You have no basis

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for this because you understand we can. You're not listening to me. It's

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not just as simple, all right, this is all fellacies. This is

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getting ridiculous. So again, we've
addressed this a million times. He's not

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even listening to what we're saying,
John Q. Taxpayer. It's like a

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script. It's like it's like when
you debate with Joe's witness. They read

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a script and they don't they don't
reply to anything that you're saying. They

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just they just charge forward with the
script, not addressing the fact that you've

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already addressed this point. Yeah,
you claim that it's a simple book and

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it's consistent with what came before.
And by the way, he contradicted himself

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because he said that everything that came
before was poetic, and then he says,

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but you can check it from what
came before, though, that's a

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contradiction. What's up, John,
Q. Hey there, how's it going,

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Yes, sir, I just had
a quick question regarding using penal language

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to describe the atonement. Now,
I know to some extent, like if

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like for someone like Mercy Sproll,
I think they would go as far as

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saying that the Trinity was like hey, Jamie divited in some sense. I'm

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just wondering, Yeah, it's completely
stupid. I'm wondering, like saying,

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like in a basic sense of like
what if we were just to say Christ

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was punished for us bearing God's wrath
and we were only to say that,

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could that be something that that could
like you could be Orthodox and you could

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just hold to something like that.
I mean, if the punishment that you

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believe is damnation, then no,
it doesn't make any sense because we're already

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told explicitly that the death or the
quote punishment is the severing of his human

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soul from his human body. There's
never Christ as a divine person. Okay,

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So the Father never turns his wrath
to the sun because that would imply

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that the divine person the Sun doesn't
have the same will in nature as the

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Father. That would divide the trinity. So the death, if you read

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John Damascus, book three, and
you go down to the very bottom of

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that whole chapter, he explains perfectly
what the Orthodox position on the death of

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Christ is, and it's the severing
of his human soul from his human body

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so that the divine person, the
Son could descend into Hades and preach the

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gospel there. Okay, yeah,
No, I was just wondering, because

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go ahead, oh okay, I
read it. I was wondering what you

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thought about, because I just kind
of looked at it was like penal language

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from Saint John Crisos. Yeah,
the problem isn't using penal language, just

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what does it mean? And most
of the time Protestants think, well,

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the punishment is damnation, you see, so that's what leads them to that

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conclusion. Gotcha, gotcha. I
was wondering just another question, as Muslims

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and Jula's witnesses like to use John
seventeen I'm wondering, like, how what

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would be kind of like the best
way to respond to someone to that brings

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up John seventeen three, saying that
the Father is the only true God.

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I was thinking mentioning like it's called
monarchical trinitarianism. We've been addressing it for

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I'm not being rude to you.
I'm just saying we've addressed it for about

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seven or eight years. Go watch
all the talks with doctor bo Branson.

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It's called monarchical trinitarianism. So everybody
should be familiar with that, should go

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through his lectures and his talks.
Hey, Jamie, she must be outside,

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Adrian, No way, that wonky, That wonky. Don't talk to

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White Night for my wife because I'm
trying to yell to her to get a

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coffee. I'm not yelling to be
mean dummy. I'm yelling because she's in

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the other room and she can't hear
me, or she's outside. So these

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people try to who he's yelling at
his wife? Oh, let's get him.

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We got him. He's an abuser. So you're gonna band just for

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that nonsense. Go ahead, man, Okay, it looks like he's having

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a hard time connecting Adrian Hackman.
H Yes, I have a question.

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Yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead, okay, good. Yes. When

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I studied advertising, I got in
contact with a group called Martinism. Martin

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Yes, yes, there there have
a cannot stick like belief that the human

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soul had become trapped in material bodies
at the fall and that Jesus the Greater

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Repairer had come to return you,
but its originals is fi Okay, So

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what's your question, Well, he
mentioned, I'm trying to sort of understand

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what he meant when he said he
took a quote from John the light shines

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in the darkness, and the darkness
has not overcome it. And he says,

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he said to me that darkness is
dependent upon the light. It's a

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very sort of duable kind of way
of looking at Yeah. I mean,

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darkness is not a thing. It's
just expressing the contrast between good and evil.

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So it's saying that the contrast between
physical light and darkness in the created

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order in Genesis wine is contrasted with
uncreated light and spiritual darkness in the sense

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of evil. So it's not talking
about metaphysical that evil has a metaphysical existence,

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all right, okay, Because I
mean the group is based on theilosophical

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Kabbala, sure, of course,
and in the test it's based on the

200
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Zohar. And I don't know how
how would you try to metaphysically defunk this

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kind of gnostic, cabalistic way of
looking at I was just listening to some

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weird gnostic guys lecture a minute ago, and uh, typically what you have

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with these kind of groups, like, let me show you the lecture I

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was listening to as an example of
what you're talking about. So, uh,

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this lecture right here is an example
of kind of what you're talking about.

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I mean, I don't think this
guy's a Martinis. He's just some

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kind of random boomer gnostic who came
up with his own position. And the

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documentary is called Cosmic Conspiracy Gnostic Cosmology, the Buddha Messida, And he doesn't

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argue why the position's true. He
just asserts the position of we know that

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there's all these archons, and we
know that there's this you know, dualism,

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that's the physical world's a prison.
And so I would start by asking,

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how do you know that this is
actually the case? Like you've got

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this big story about the cosmos,
But how me know that that story is

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true? And most of the time
these people can't tell you why it is.

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And then secondly, I would say, if you listen to their storytelling,

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as I listened to this guy's story, he says that you know.

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He starts by saying that, well, the church and the Jesus position that

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everybody thinks is the church. They
think there's one true position, and know

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that's a deception, that's a dogmatic
position. And then he goes on to

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say, the one true mystic position
is my gnostic system. And what you

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find out is that there's actually a
zillion different gnostic systems, and they all

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contradict one another. And within about
twenty minutes, these people will typically contradict

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themselves as to what they said about
ten minutes earlier. So listen for the

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guy's story and the contradictions, and
you'll begin to notice, well, hey,

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wait a minute, if, like, if true reality is in this

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etheric realm and we're trapped in a
prison realm, how do you know the

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truth in the prison realm? That's
that's going to be a contradiction. Okay,

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So it's kind of like you skid's
a way of looking at it.

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It's what it's it's it's it's like
schizophrenic with you. Oh yeah, yeah,

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they'll constantly contradict, Like, if
if this reality is a lie,

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right as this guy said in this
video, then my coming to know this

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reality is a lie is still part
of this reality, and it would be

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part of a lie. That's a
contradiction. Okay, I'm serious. I

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mean most of the time Gnostics are
not very sophisticated, So if you just

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listen to them and let them talk
for about five minutes, they'll immediately contradict

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themselves. Leonid, what's up,
dude? You gotta umute? Man lead?

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Did you gotta umute? Mhm?
Mister pink you got some reservoir dolls?

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Yo? Hello? Yeah, yeah? Hello, yes, Hello,

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corn boy? Got that corn boy? When him Quorn rolls, what's up?

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Corn boy? Hey? How's it
going? Could you hear me?

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Yes, sir, I don't know. I wanted to see if you thought

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there was any truth to the idea
that Protestant Protestantism might have been not created

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but allowed to exist by the Catholic
Church to create a false binary, to

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create a weaker enemy than the Orthodox
Church. No, I don't. I

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don't think there's any reason to think
that, right, thank you. Uh,

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00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:53,799
let's see progus pragus so you can
try to come out and come back

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00:19:53,799 --> 00:20:04,880
in and won't connect. Uh v
Varrella, what's up? I think you

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wanted to speak in the super chat
Varrella? Hello again? All right?

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Something else regarding the Roman Catholic Church. So there was a recent discussion between

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Tucker Curls and and Past Dug Wilson
of vc ORC, and that discussion was

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going great until he did the typical
thing a Protestant will do is speaking against

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the Spanish Inquisition. And I don't
think most people, per stance or not

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seem to know him anything more about
the Inquisition than Monty Python's little skits about

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it, right, I agree,
yes, so the point of it,

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and in Jose Siste Mystery wrote very
well on the all the fact about it.

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It was not funded by it was
not affacted by the Church first,

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and foremost was affected by then I'll
talk about So yeah, so I'd be

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interested to see those talks because okay, so we know therefore this is a

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matter of national unity and security.
So the same thing of what GK.

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Chester Ten he wrote in is what's
a matter of national unity and security?

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Things like the Inquisition. So like
Chestertain he wrote in what I Saw in

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America his experience going throule the border
patrol, and they ask him if he's

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an anarchist. So it's like,
we know there is other inquisitions, not

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just the Spanish inquisitions, right,
I did a whole talk is called Medieval

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heresy. It's Malcolm Lambert's book and
that whole lecture on it. Okay,

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so what so what's your question?
All right? So an Orthodoxy would be

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would have no problem with something like
this, would they not? But what

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I've seen something like an institution like
the Inquisition, because I've seen some American

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Americos writers speak against it, also
like Protestants saying, you know, Orthodoxy

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does not have things like this,
but this does not seem to mix sense,

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Like what's your Yeah, there's no
heart and fast answer this because typically

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in the history of the Church,
when you would have dangerous heresies that threatened

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to upend the social order, then
the Orthodox ruler would step in to do

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certain actions like banish the people or
make them leave or you know, something

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like that, or pass a law
to dissuade them from proselytizing. And so

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that's happened many times. I mean, many of the Orthodox emperors passed laws

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against the heretics in the Ecumenical councils
the sixth and seventh. They typically tried

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to get the emperor on their side
because that would ensure that the heretics couldn't

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further their agenda. I mean,
say, Gregory Palamas, you see this

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in the Palomite Synods. They appeal
to the emperor to stop the Barleymites from

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pushing Barleyanism. So this is well
known. I don't think it means we

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have to necessarily. Basically, it's
two different domains. So the church says

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these people are outside the church,
and then the state, because it rules

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and its sphere, makes a decision
about how to handle that in the civil

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sphere. So I don't know why
you keep coming back to debate. If

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you're not going to listen to the
discussion, and if you're just going to

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machine gun past, then there's no
point in having a discussion. So I

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asked you multiple questions about Islam,
and you just kept talking past. So

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I don't know why you want to
come back in your hammer down what's up?

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Hammer down rabbit ears? Yeah,
I had a question about the Schofield

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Bible. If you can explaining the
who, what, when, or why?

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And then I have another I just
did a whole talk on that on

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my Twitter on the fourth Hower Lord
Voldemort. Okay, if I may ask

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another question that doesn't have anything to
do with religion necessarily, but histerosity.

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That's not a word historicity, correct, Huh. What I mean, what

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I'm what I'm trying to say is
the well, let me just speak plainly.

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What is your opinion of the Holocaust? Did I actually take urban meat?

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Hi j? I wanted to ask
a theological question. Mm hmm.

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Is Esther and Mordecai a type of
Christ and Mary? Mmmm? I don't

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know. I haven't thought about that. Maybe I'd have to go back and

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read Aster. I mean, probably
there's parallels with the Church. Maybe,

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I don't know, I haven't thought
about it. I also had one more

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question. What this is a really
complicated question. So I am a Serbian

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Catholic human, and I was wondering
how to avoid the temptations of the Catholics.

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I mean, go and watch and
look at all the scandals of Pope

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Francis, And why would you want
to be a Roman Catholic? Alf the

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00:25:49,720 --> 00:26:07,920
Great? What's up? Alf?
Got it? I'm mute, sorry,

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Jay. I was wondering about predestination
in the Orthodox Church. So that sort

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of pertains to like divine providence and
like how much God's involved with predestination.

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Yeah, So I've addressed that multiple
times in the talks that you can look

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at on the clips channel right here
with part one and part two. If

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you can see that on the screen, there's the Calvinism Part one and Calvinism

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Part two. So I'm not trying
to be rude. It's just every time

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we do the open forums. So
again, I don't know why this to

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00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:45,799
dud. I don't know why why
are you trying to come on here and

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00:26:45,799 --> 00:27:10,880
debate? Man, It's enough of
this nonsense, Najad. I'm talking about

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00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,079
the same Muslim guard that keeps trying
to come back in here. He's not

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00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:17,599
he won't listen to the won't have
an exchange. He just wants to spam

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00:27:17,599 --> 00:27:23,119
miss his position. That's not an
argument, Elliot. What's up? Unmute's

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00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:33,880
going on? Mister J Dyer.
Yeah, I'm an inquiring Roman Catholic slash

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Orthodox. I've been listening to some
of your stuff on YouTube. I was

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actually supposed to be baptized today Roman
Catholic, but I kind of got cold

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feet decided to look at the issue
again. So yeah, I was just

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curious what you thought about like the
eucharistic miracles, because I tried looking up

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like something that you would have,
you know, talked about regarding them.

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I couldn't really find anything. Yeah, I mean we don't. I mean,

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00:28:03,799 --> 00:28:07,480
Worthodox Church doesn't have the same position
as the Roman Catholics on this.

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And I mean, if you're trying
to make the decision based on supposed miracle

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claims, I think this is a
really kind of weak position to choose your

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religions on because every religion is going
to have all these different miracle claims.

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So I mean you got to ultimately
make the decision on the basis of which

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00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:30,440
position has a coherent worldview. I
just don't understand why people make this decision

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like because of all these supposed miracle
claims. I mean, like every pagan

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religion claims to have miraculous event.
Are you going to choose the pagan religions

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00:28:41,759 --> 00:28:45,240
because of miracle claims? It just
I don't understand people thinking this grim what's

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00:28:45,319 --> 00:28:52,920
up grim? Hey Jamie? Because
you maybe a double shot. The audience

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00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,480
says, I'm abusing you because I
yelled, Yo, what's up? What's

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00:28:57,519 --> 00:29:06,880
on your mouth? All right?
So so for the tag argument, you

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00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:11,640
know the negative side of that argument, I have no problem like understanding that

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00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:18,240
but the positive side, getting the
energy distinction out there and trying to prove

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00:29:18,319 --> 00:29:22,319
wrong, for example, the Islamic
God or without having to go into each

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00:29:22,519 --> 00:29:29,400
individual religion or my opponent's religion to
refute that. Yeah, because because the

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I mean, if God is a
pure unity, you could look at the

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00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:37,480
problem of how to have multiplicity.
Uh. If God is I don't know,

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like abstract and unknowable, then he's
irrelevant and not related to this the

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00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:47,920
created order. So basically, you
know, you either have a universe that's

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00:29:48,119 --> 00:29:52,359
uh has intentionality in tilos, or
it's disteleological. So basically some of the

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00:29:52,359 --> 00:29:57,160
basic metaphysical principles will kind of automatically
cancel out a lot of the world religions.

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But if it's you know, Islam
or Judaism versus Christianity, then it

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00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,799
gets into the specifics of like the
triad and the metaphysics that the Trinity gives

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00:30:07,839 --> 00:30:12,319
you versus the metaphysics of the other
positions. Yeah. So in I know,

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00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:17,920
in Islam, I probably have to
go into some specifics because I know

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that the hyposthetic you know, properties
of each person of the Trinity. They

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reveal that through the energies or the
operations which you know, in Islam they

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00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:32,119
only have God as a being,
they don't have him as specific Well,

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00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,279
also, there's a problem of knowing
a law because they have a natural theology

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00:30:36,359 --> 00:30:41,880
empiricist principle that you're only ever experiencing
these creative effects, you're never actually interacting

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00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,759
with they're knowing a law. A
law is not in the created order at

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00:30:45,759 --> 00:30:52,480
all. Right, So that's ultimately
like the same critique that Palamas makes of

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00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:59,799
Thomas Aquinas's theism. Yeah, so
in our worldview, you know, so

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00:30:59,839 --> 00:31:04,839
we don't rely on empiricism, right, we rely on So if we're relying

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00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,839
on knowing God, then how do
we come to know God in our worldview

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00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:17,839
if not empiricism. Empiricism is a
school of philosophy or a basic presupposition about

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00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,920
how we attain knowledge. That's not
the same thing as having empirical knowledge or

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00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:29,119
obtaining knowledge from empirical sense data.
They're two different things. So empiricism is

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00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,799
just the idea that the way we
get actual knowledge, that justification, is

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00:31:33,839 --> 00:31:37,200
our senses. Empiricism says that the
only source of knowledge is sense data,

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00:31:38,039 --> 00:31:45,039
and Islamic philosophy and thought typically says
that as well. Right, and so

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00:31:45,119 --> 00:31:51,920
what's the difference between that and us. I mean, in the Jake debate,

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00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:56,279
he says nominalism, So we're not
nominalists and we're not subject to all

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00:31:56,319 --> 00:32:00,880
the problems of nominalism. Did you
see the Jake debate? Uh? Yeah,

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00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,599
I watched part of it. Yeah, so basically, so basically he

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00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,920
just keeps repeating nominalism and says like
that's obviously what's true, and doesn't even

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00:32:08,039 --> 00:32:13,319
appear to be aware of the problems
in nominalism. So that would be pretty

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00:32:13,359 --> 00:32:19,279
devastating to having any kind of coherent
epistemology if you're a strictnominalist. Oh yeah,

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And also, you know, he
said that logic is based in our

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minds and yeah, blah blah blah
and all that. So would that be

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00:32:25,279 --> 00:32:32,039
part of nominalism as well? Well, nominalism is just a position that there's

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no universals or essences. They're just
sort of terms that we get. Yeah,

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00:32:38,119 --> 00:32:40,440
so yeah, it would ultimately kind
of relate to that. But thank

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00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:45,839
you for that question. We're going
to move on. Uh, alp apologetics.

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00:32:45,839 --> 00:32:46,960
Didn't you already come on here?
I can't remember or did it not

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00:32:47,039 --> 00:32:55,599
work? I think you couldn't connect? Yeah, Hi, Jay. I

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00:32:55,599 --> 00:33:01,359
had a question about the Church of
England and of a preston churches and how

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00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:06,799
we could sort of reclaim them,
like I'm talking about a conservative position,

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00:33:06,839 --> 00:33:10,000
how we reclaim these churches? How
we could Yeah, I don't think we

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00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:13,279
can do that. I think we
just got to convert on the Orthodoxy.

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00:33:14,359 --> 00:33:20,240
Because my question is only based on
this is because like there's loads of people

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00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:25,319
that wouldn't have this question that's sort
of just attend church, like sort of

390
00:33:25,519 --> 00:33:30,519
not knowing any theology, not knowing
why it's important, and sort of blindly

391
00:33:30,599 --> 00:33:35,839
following a lot of the leaders,
like justin Welby all these other people.

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00:33:35,839 --> 00:33:38,519
They just don't know what the importance
of it is. And so like,

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00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:43,880
is there any way to do this
aside from like reziem zoom has got some

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00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,799
movement like the I think it's like
the reconky stuff. Yeah, And I

395
00:33:47,839 --> 00:33:54,640
feel like because of the fact that
even in America, one Episcopalian church booted

396
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:59,839
off a priest right because of some
liberal complaint, I feel like it's impossible

397
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:04,200
to get people in the church to
even turn it around. But yeah,

398
00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:08,280
exactly these masses. Can we get
these masses to come to orthodox that even

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00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,320
if they don't, if they're just
old people, right, they don't know

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00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:15,360
what they're in the church. Yeah. I just don't think at an institutional

401
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:21,119
level you're gonna do this because a
lot of these institutions are captured. So

402
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:25,119
Redeem Zuomer is young, he's naive, he doesn't understand institutional capture. So

403
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,960
no, you're not going to at
an institutional level capture. Uh. These

404
00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:35,440
captured bases, all all your base
are belonged to us. So all we

405
00:34:35,519 --> 00:34:37,440
got to do is just convert the
people on an individual level. And that's

406
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,840
what's working right now, that's happening, and so we just need to continue

407
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:45,280
doing that. Buddy Love, that's
what I'm talking about, Buddy Love.

408
00:34:45,559 --> 00:34:58,920
What's up man, Buddy, Buddy
Love, Baby, don't hurt me no

409
00:34:59,079 --> 00:35:04,159
more? Well, what is love? Baby? Don't hurt me no more?

410
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,119
All right, Buddy Love can't connect. He's got dial up out there

411
00:35:10,119 --> 00:35:35,599
at the Love Shock. Daniel Fahimi
got on mute man, you gotta a

412
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:43,519
mute Hi there you heard me.
Uh. I just had a question to

413
00:35:43,599 --> 00:35:49,079
ask about the transcendental argument, right, So why it's like, why is

414
00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:55,199
a mind with the only condition in
which you can ground transcendental categories. Well,

415
00:35:55,239 --> 00:36:01,280
because of intentionality, and because those
categories stand or fall together. They

416
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,719
don't they're not discrete, they're kind
of they kind of hang and fall together.

417
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:19,920
I still don't understand, like,
don't understand what it's just like it's

418
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:24,199
kind of I'm used to the I'm
not used to like thinking in this abstract

419
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:28,480
I don't know. Well, I
mean think about your mind, right,

420
00:36:28,519 --> 00:36:32,119
I mean your mind houses a bunch
of things, right, yeah, right,

421
00:36:32,159 --> 00:36:36,320
So your mind is a single thing
that houses a bunch of things,

422
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,760
and so in a sense it kind
of in a in a limited temporal sense,

423
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:45,840
quote grounds them or gives them some
linking, uh, substrate. So

424
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:51,880
those things that we're talking about aren't
just our minds. They exist and they

425
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,000
structure the entire world. So where
are they and how are they? Well,

426
00:36:55,039 --> 00:36:59,079
we need a divine mind, and
so the divine mind isn't just an

427
00:36:59,119 --> 00:37:02,480
abstract thing. It's a personal,
intentional thing, meaning that it gives purpose

428
00:37:02,599 --> 00:37:08,800
or tilos to all of reality.
Yeah, thank you most of Another question,

429
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:14,599
Sure, how would you like refute
determinism? I'm going to like prove

430
00:37:15,559 --> 00:37:20,199
that we will has to exist?
Well, because if you deny free will,

431
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,599
it's impossible to have knowledge at all
in the sense of having justified knowledge.

432
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:29,119
So if you go back and watch
my debate with JF, that ends

433
00:37:29,199 --> 00:37:32,360
up being the purpose of that whole
debate. The JF debate, by the

434
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:38,440
way, is it's on here somewhere. If you go to my clips channel

435
00:37:38,639 --> 00:37:46,519
all the way to the bottom,
right here where the cheshire Cat is,

436
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:57,559
it says best of jd Our debates. That's the debate where we debate determinism.

437
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:12,679
Wesley Vennable, So, dude,
what's up? Hello? Can hear?

438
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,719
Yes, sir? I had a
couple of questions about pre stuff and

439
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:22,880
transcendental arguments. Okay, So I've
got a friend at my parish I'm Orthodox,

440
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,360
and he was pretty into the truth
of the presupp argument, but lately

441
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,559
he just decided he doesn't like any
things as dumb. And one of his

442
00:38:29,639 --> 00:38:35,039
critiques is that if we can't do
natural theology because it's a fallen world and

443
00:38:35,079 --> 00:38:37,840
will come to false conclusions, why
would that not apply to the transcendental categories

444
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,719
themselves. Why wouldn't those also be
in some kind of falling Yeah, I

445
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:45,679
mean that sounds like a misunderstanding of
why we quote don't do it has nothing

446
00:38:45,679 --> 00:38:49,960
to do with because the world has
fallen. That sounds like what That sounds

447
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,639
like what Bonson or Van tilS or
somebody would say. So it's not that

448
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:58,119
we can't do natural theology because we're
fallen. It's that natural theology is a

449
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:06,960
misplaced understanding of how we derive meaning
in ground our understanding of the world,

450
00:39:07,119 --> 00:39:12,000
and that ultimately we're still assuming God
and the Christian God when we try to

451
00:39:12,039 --> 00:39:15,159
even do natural theology. So natural
theology, if you read the Garabie paper,

452
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:22,079
is also based on several fallacies,
typically like the quantifier shift fallacy.

453
00:39:22,159 --> 00:39:27,639
So it sounds like your friend is
probably misunderstanding what we're saying as as if

454
00:39:27,679 --> 00:39:30,440
it means that there's no theology of
nature. I mean, if you read

455
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:35,079
Stean Eloy, he says on page
one of Orthodox Dogmatics that we do natural

456
00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:38,960
revelation, not tomistic natural theology.
Yeah, that all makes sense. I

457
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,480
was trying to figure out to try
to wrap my brain around his criticism because

458
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,960
it seems like some kind of category
era. Yeah. I think he's responding

459
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,320
to the way Bonson or van Ptilis
Calvinists would say that we don't do natural

460
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,760
theology. Yeah, because he's starting
to go into He says, like the

461
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:58,199
phenomenological phenomenological argument is what commited?
Like the fact that we're here, we

462
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,159
exist is enough for him. Well, if I mean that you're in the

463
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:01,920
church now, I don't know what
that is. I mean again, I

464
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,760
think that sounds like a lot of
fallacies, like the fact that I exist,

465
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,639
Like, how would that prove orthodox
Christianity right to me? That doesn't.

466
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:13,519
That's just not gonna work talking to
people. And then I was trying

467
00:40:13,519 --> 00:40:16,079
to think about, like trying to
straw me or steal man the transcenital argument.

468
00:40:16,079 --> 00:40:19,639
I won't hear a lot of very
good criticisms about it, so I

469
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,480
was trying to think of some The
only one I've really heard is why is

470
00:40:22,519 --> 00:40:25,440
God the necessary precondition for X?
When when you've laid out formulaically like that,

471
00:40:28,199 --> 00:40:31,719
Well, God's a necessary precondition because
it's not just like the abstract idea

472
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:36,920
of God. It's God in the
entire Christian worldview, and the entire Christian

473
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:42,159
worldview is what gives a grounding and
a basis for the transcendental categories which make

474
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,280
knowledge possible. Yeah, I would
agree. My friend also said, like

475
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:51,400
he would maybe be Okay, with
the transcendental argument, if we systematically disproved

476
00:40:51,559 --> 00:40:53,960
every single worldview, yeah, again, we've already addressed every one of these

477
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:58,400
objections. Has been addressed probably five
hundred times in the last seven years.

478
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:04,079
So you don't have to address every
single worldview because there's only a limited number

479
00:41:04,079 --> 00:41:07,760
of basic starting point positions for any
possible world view. For example, a

480
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:15,519
disteleological universe versus a teleological universe.
There's only that, like there's and you

481
00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:17,239
maybe you could argue that there's some
mix. Okay, well that's just three

482
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:23,119
possible positions that will immediately determine and
sort of cross off a whole bunch of

483
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:27,239
world views. Yeah, I agree
with all that. I just wanted to

484
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,159
hear your thoughts on it. And
then one last thing, also, Father

485
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:34,400
Diggan and Ayas's recent paper addresses that
objection. Okay, I haven't read it

486
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,880
yet. I will. One other
thing. I want to hear what your

487
00:41:37,199 --> 00:41:39,320
your thoughts on this. If there's
no such thing as brute facts, is

488
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:46,280
that itself a brute fact? No, because it's saying that every fact is

489
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,760
embedded and it would include it would
include that fact as well. So for

490
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,559
somebody trying to flip that on us, like, that's a gotcha. It's

491
00:41:53,559 --> 00:41:58,760
only a gotcha. If I was
like, if I believed in classical foundationalism,

492
00:41:59,079 --> 00:42:01,599
if I believe that, if I
believe that all beliefs are theory laden,

493
00:42:02,039 --> 00:42:05,639
then the beliefs that all believes for
theory leading is also the leads.

494
00:42:06,559 --> 00:42:10,400
Damn dude, he's bringing the damn
farm out to debate. Oh I just

495
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:15,360
got roasted by rooster boy. Thank
you so much. Appreciate those questions.

496
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:21,760
Daniel. What's up? Oh that's
a that's a wolf rooster right there.

497
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:27,920
That was nice. That was the
sign of you that it's time for you

498
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,079
to get off the rooster is like, get off of that phone, get

499
00:42:31,079 --> 00:42:37,000
over here and get the eggs out
of these dang chicks. Daniel, what's

500
00:42:37,079 --> 00:42:43,559
up, hey, j I was
just calling. I was wondering a lot

501
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:46,840
of the times arians will bring up
Proverbs eight twenty two to justify that Christ

502
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:51,360
is the created being. How would
you defend the positions that he's not.

503
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,239
We just read in the so in
this I think it's a septuagen translation.

504
00:42:55,320 --> 00:43:00,360
We read that in the Littergy the
other night, or was it that during

505
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:06,199
the It was just read in the
liturgy recently, and the way ours reads

506
00:43:06,199 --> 00:43:08,360
it, it's like I was he
was with him in the beginning. It's

507
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:12,840
not created me in the beginning or
established, it's established me in the beginning.

508
00:43:14,639 --> 00:43:16,280
No Oursa has created me in the
beginning. So there's when when there's

509
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:25,440
terminology that's used that's analogies for God, like uh, Like there's a phrase

510
00:43:25,519 --> 00:43:31,280
where in Isaiah says something like I
will be to Israel like a mother.

511
00:43:31,639 --> 00:43:35,280
Right, does that mean God is
our mother? And you actually have like

512
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,840
heretical sex who will take that analogy
and say, oh, we'll see God

513
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:43,760
is also a woman because God's like
a mother to Israel or something like that,

514
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:49,239
And it's it's just an analogy where
elements of the thing match up and

515
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:53,280
elements don't. So anytime there's an
analogy, we can't take the things that

516
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:59,239
don't make sense to match up.
Right. So if there's dozens and dozens

517
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,199
of other passages is to talk about
the Son of God being the eternal son

518
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:08,079
of God, then clearly the passes
it talks about the personification of wisdom at

519
00:44:08,079 --> 00:44:13,039
the beginning of creation. We're not
going to apply the created categories to the

520
00:44:13,079 --> 00:44:16,760
Son of God. Okay, My
next kind of branching question off of that

521
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:25,880
with the in what sense is a
Christ's analogous to being created? Well,

522
00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:32,159
the created order is analogous to him
as the being through whom creation occurs.

523
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:37,320
Right, So for example, it's
referring to the beginning of the works.

524
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:42,679
It doesn't mean that the sun himself
is a creation or work because it says

525
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:50,039
also that huh is the origin?
Yeah, okay, yeah, So when

526
00:44:50,119 --> 00:44:52,920
John and if you read John One, when John plays on this passage,

527
00:44:53,599 --> 00:44:59,000
right, John One's exegesis, and
I wrote an essay on this some years

528
00:44:59,039 --> 00:45:00,639
back. It's in the Red Book. So a lot of people think that

529
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:06,599
John one is pulling from Greek philosophy. Actually, John One's pulling from the

530
00:45:06,639 --> 00:45:13,800
Hebrew wisdom tradition and the wisdom texts
that personify wisdom. It also personifies wisdom

531
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,159
as a woman. So like when
we conclude that Jesus is a woman,

532
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:22,440
because wisdom is personified in Proverbs as
a woman. No, so there's elements

533
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:27,599
that match up to what it's referring
to and elements that don't. Just like

534
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,239
God is a mother to Israel,
but God's not a mother, right,

535
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:36,760
So it's he's like a mother to
Israel. And so the beginning of the

536
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,719
created order finds its origin in the
person of Christ, the logos, And

537
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:45,800
that's the way John exegetes this passage
in John one. So John one is

538
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:50,400
really the way to interpret Proverbs aids
what I'm saying. And that's why he

539
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,480
says, in the beginning was the
word, the words with God. The

540
00:45:52,519 --> 00:45:55,800
word was God. He was in
the beginning with God. All things were

541
00:45:55,800 --> 00:46:00,800
made through him, and nothing that
came to be came to be without being

542
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:06,199
made through him. So that means
that he's not a creature, right,

543
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:14,480
And the word there is the wisdom
logos of Proverbs. So but that's a

544
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:25,440
great question. Let's see Timothy.
What's up Timothy? By the way,

545
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:30,239
if you want to support via bitcoin, this is my wallet QR code the

546
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:35,000
wallet addresses also in the show description. What's up? Timothy? Hey,

547
00:46:35,079 --> 00:46:42,480
j what's Christ? Division? My
question is reverse to the idea that when

548
00:46:42,519 --> 00:46:51,360
Christ became men, When Christ became
men, the person of Christ went from

549
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,039
this is going to sound a bit
strange, went from simple to complex.

550
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,599
I understand that. Yeah, I
think that monologies used by Saint Maximus.

551
00:47:00,679 --> 00:47:07,840
Yeah, or and maybe John Amascus
too yeah, and in the I sort

552
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:12,400
of work with a mission group,
so translating to our language is a bit

553
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:16,320
difficult for me, especially because I
myself don't understand this concept in its depth,

554
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,599
so it will be impossible for me
to explain it to me. Well,

555
00:47:19,639 --> 00:47:22,000
it just means complex in the sense
of now he's composite or compounded of

556
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:28,639
human nature and divinity because of the
human nature. Correct. Are there any

557
00:47:28,679 --> 00:47:32,199
books of that I could read to
explod more on this knowledge that you would

558
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:37,760
recommend? Well? Yeah, I
mean any of the Orthodox Church fathers the

559
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:44,079
treat of the Incarnation extensively, like
Saint Maximus. Uh, you know,

560
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,800
the Cosmic Mystery of Christ book from
Saint Vladimir's. You could read John Damascus

561
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:52,280
is on the Orthodox faith. Book
three is all about Christology. But if

562
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:59,119
you want more of an academic scholastic
treatment, Rise of Christian Theology and the

563
00:47:59,199 --> 00:48:02,519
End of Ancient metaph Physics by Zach
Kuber is all about the metaphysics of the

564
00:48:02,519 --> 00:48:08,079
incarnation. So that would be this
book right here, let me open the

565
00:48:08,079 --> 00:48:16,920
stream. Sorry. Oh yes,
And also if I can ask one more

566
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:23,039
question in regards to the Old Testament, the various theophanies and for example,

567
00:48:23,119 --> 00:48:28,000
like the more you read the Psalms, and the more you read the entirety

568
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,400
of the Old Testament from Orthodox fronium, it would be more and more compelling,

569
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,840
more and more blatant that literally everything
is about Christ. Yeah. Absolutely,

570
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:43,280
yeah. He says that at the
end of twenty four he says that

571
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,880
He opened their eyes to understand everything
in the scriptures about him. Right,

572
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:52,360
how would you? Because I believe
that the Episole occasion ever truly died.

573
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,960
I think that we, or those
Christians, we are ought to following their

574
00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:02,079
footsteps the same way that Saint Paul, for example, wrote for the Hebrews

575
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:07,960
in his letters, he used language
that they would understand. What sort of

576
00:49:08,079 --> 00:49:13,480
language do you think that would be
useful to explain to Muslims that these things

577
00:49:13,519 --> 00:49:16,719
are indeed speaking of Christ and it's
not just some God which you can't know

578
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:21,079
or have any analogy, but it
is in fact. I don't know.

579
00:49:21,119 --> 00:49:24,360
I mean, I don't know if
there is any language secret to explaining stuff

580
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:30,599
to Muslims. I don't know.
I see, thank you very much.

581
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:37,159
Yeah, I mean I think it's
just a just a sort of a really

582
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:44,119
hard headed arbitrary I mean, when
you talk to the Muslims. Most of

583
00:49:44,119 --> 00:49:45,639
the time. Like the guy that
was in it earlier, he wasn't interested

584
00:49:45,639 --> 00:49:47,960
in having it back and forth.
He just wanted to do his spill.

585
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,760
And if you try to, you
know, have that back and forth,

586
00:49:52,639 --> 00:49:57,480
he just like blew past every question
and just wanted to keep repeating his position

587
00:49:57,639 --> 00:50:01,320
and do a sales pitch. And
it's like, you know. Then he

588
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,519
said to them, these are the
words which I spoke to when I was

589
00:50:04,559 --> 00:50:07,679
with you, that all things might
be written that were fulfilled, which was

590
00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:08,960
written in the Law of Moses and
the prophets and the Psalms about me.

591
00:50:09,039 --> 00:50:14,280
And he opened their understanding that they
might comprehend the scriptures. So until the

592
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:19,480
Messiah opens your mind to comprehend the
scriptures being about him, you won't understand.

593
00:50:19,559 --> 00:50:22,719
You won't see any of this.
Is God able to do anything.

594
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:29,760
Eric three dollars. So I addressed
this earlier. No, what omnipotence means

595
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:35,840
is anything that's possible within what's determined
by his nature. So it doesn't mean

596
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:42,920
literally anything possible that's importing an external
definition of omnipotence to our system. So

597
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:51,079
it doesn't mean that where do humans
and demons get evil from if not from

598
00:50:51,119 --> 00:50:53,639
God. So evil is a move
of the will away from the good.

599
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,360
It's not a thing. It doesn't
have being, it doesn't have substance.

600
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:01,039
God doesn't make evil. Cataclysm North
is xenomorph and I'm a man boob.

601
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:05,679
It's just a joke. Chris one
Dollar, what's the best argument against the

602
00:51:05,679 --> 00:51:10,360
Protestant Canada scripture? Again, I've
done multiple talks and lectures on this,

603
00:51:10,559 --> 00:51:15,599
so you can go watch the lectures
that we did over here in my clips

604
00:51:15,679 --> 00:51:22,079
channel. Go watch the video the
Protestant Candidas Scripture on Sam Schimun's channel with

605
00:51:22,119 --> 00:51:27,519
me. So Jay Dyer, Sam
Schmun Protestant Candidas Scripture. I address that

606
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:31,480
in great detail. John five Dollars, I'm an ext Show's witness. There's

607
00:51:31,559 --> 00:51:37,239
Joe's witnesses in Greece, Russia,
Ukraine thanks to their evangelization efforts. I

608
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:45,000
know they're also used by the CIA
with the EO. I find myself dealing

609
00:51:45,039 --> 00:51:51,239
with unresponsive priests and ethnic churches,
and then I finally found a good one

610
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,519
after many months. Yeah. I
think that's the thing is that you know,

611
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:58,199
Orthodox church is not some in general, when you try to find one,

612
00:51:58,199 --> 00:52:00,599
you're not gonna find like some utopia. You know, it took me

613
00:52:00,599 --> 00:52:02,960
a long time to find a good
church too, so you do have that

614
00:52:04,079 --> 00:52:07,719
time's work for a long time to
find a good one. Whale box ten

615
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:12,360
dollars. I would like to support
Orthodox monks. Do you know a reputable

616
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:23,519
website to buy products like Jordanville Who
Holy Cross slop ten dollars. Do you

617
00:52:23,519 --> 00:52:29,079
agree with Andrew Wilson's stance on rights. I mean, we had to talk

618
00:52:29,119 --> 00:52:30,400
about this. It just depends on
what you mean by rights. I mean,

619
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:38,519
do you mean a moral like defense
grounded in divine law, or do

620
00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:43,000
you mean like the Enlightenment idea of
like some inherent right. I mean,

621
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,199
if you're an Enlightenment goober, which
is most of the people that or a

622
00:52:46,199 --> 00:52:49,559
atheist or whatever, which is a
lot of the people. He's debating the

623
00:52:49,599 --> 00:52:53,599
feminists like they have no basis for
rights and there doesn't make any sense.

624
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,800
I had this argument with my brother
and he was insisting that the position was

625
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:06,239
anti Christian. It just depends on
what you mean by the words one,

626
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,519
two, three, four, juice
box ten dollars. Why do we not

627
00:53:09,599 --> 00:53:15,440
have multiple wives in Christianity? Because
Jesus when he came because he's the one

628
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:19,679
that gives the law. He decides
when to apply when to relax the laws.

629
00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:24,960
Decided that he wanted to move us
in the direction of what was appropriate

630
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:31,760
and intended in Genesis, whereas polygamy
was a condescension to man's weakness, and

631
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:37,559
so he made that decision for our
goodness. Anonymous five dollars. Are Protestants

632
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:45,119
better at preaching and evangelism? No, because preaching and evangelism isn't done correctly

633
00:53:45,199 --> 00:53:49,199
unless it's done at correct faith.
Pantheon five dollars. Jay. Question,

634
00:53:49,519 --> 00:53:54,719
is Christ the logos and word of
God? Is that the voice heard in

635
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:59,559
the sky? Well, Christ is
a divine person who's being baptized. The

636
00:53:59,639 --> 00:54:04,519
voice is the energetic manifestation proper to
the hypostasis of the Father. So it's

637
00:54:04,559 --> 00:54:09,480
the Father saying, this is my
beloved son. And if you read it's

638
00:54:09,519 --> 00:54:14,840
the same principle with the tongues of
fire. It's not the person of the

639
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:20,320
Holy Spirit. It's the energetic manifestation
of the Spirit that is appearing as a

640
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:22,360
dove or as tongues of fire.
But the Holy Spirit is not a dove,

641
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:28,320
and he's not a tongue of fire. Geets avon pig sty seven dollars.

642
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:30,480
Jay question, how does souls come
into existence? After Adam and Eve?

643
00:54:30,679 --> 00:54:36,519
Saint Maximus says very clearly that they're
created instantaneously at the point of conception.

644
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,159
Is there a continuation of God's breath
into Adam and Eve? I think

645
00:54:40,159 --> 00:54:45,440
God creates a new soul. Is
it a self sustaining chain reaction? No,

646
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:55,480
L two A five dollars. Could
you steal man created grace saving you?

647
00:54:55,519 --> 00:55:00,079
No, because it's a completely rejected
position. All all the four of

648
00:55:00,119 --> 00:55:05,519
the Polamite synods, which are translated
in this new book, fairly new book.

649
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:10,199
In all four then they reject the
possibility of how grace itself could be

650
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:15,199
created without ending up in some kind
of Aryan position. I mean, arianism

651
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:17,840
is false because it says that our
savior is a creature. And it's just

652
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:22,039
an Aryan move to say that the
grace that saves us is also a creature.

653
00:55:22,119 --> 00:55:24,679
It's just silly, and they'll always
try to deflect into saying that,

654
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:29,559
well, sacraments have a created element
to it, so it's a created grace.

655
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:31,519
It's not what we're talking about.
We're talking about the energies themselves that

656
00:55:31,559 --> 00:55:37,199
we participate in are they themselves created? And the answer universally in the Eastern

657
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:40,199
Church and amongst the Eastern Fathers and
councils is absolutely not. G mall ten

658
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:44,559
dollars. I love you well,
no, homo br but I love you

659
00:55:44,599 --> 00:55:47,920
too, Shaan five dollars. Malpass
granted that God might be the way to

660
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:52,719
account for logic, but does it
says it doesn't rule out logic being grounded

661
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:57,159
in something incomprehensible. Well, if
it's incomprehensible, then I don't know how

662
00:55:57,159 --> 00:56:04,440
it would do the grounding work aesthetic
to having a respect for uncertainty, but

663
00:56:04,519 --> 00:56:07,360
it makes it impossible to argue correct
Uh, yeah, it seems like it

664
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:12,920
would go in that direction. Roll
of stakes, ten dollars. What's your

665
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:17,400
favorite argument against Protestants to take issue
with venerating Mary and giving her titles such

666
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:22,079
as Queen of Heaven? Well,
I don't know why we wouldn't venerate the

667
00:56:22,159 --> 00:56:27,039
queen. I mean, isn't that
the point of terms and showing respect?

668
00:56:27,559 --> 00:56:30,239
So you believe she's a queen,
but you're not going to venerate her just

669
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:36,360
doesn't make any sense. What do
you say to their arguments when they try

670
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,840
to equate her to a pagan goddess. Oh again, I mean it depends

671
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:43,760
on what the reference is, right, I mean, Pacha Mama is not

672
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:45,920
Mary. And for Roman Catholic to
try to say, well, it's kind

673
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:50,519
of like Mary, I mean,
that's an idiotic move. So you know,

674
00:56:50,519 --> 00:56:53,239
if we were like Lofton or a
Roman Catholic making a Pacha Mama argument,

675
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:57,679
then maybe they would have a point. But I mean, do you

676
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,719
would you say that an arching angel
is I mean, surely if you're a

677
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:06,280
protest he believes the Bible. You
think that there are archangels that are high

678
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,000
in rank? Does that make them
gods? I mean? And by the

679
00:57:09,039 --> 00:57:15,280
way, the problem also might be
linguistic, because Jesus said, I have

680
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:19,960
said ye are gods. So he
made Moses like a god to Pharaoh.

681
00:57:20,599 --> 00:57:25,239
So the problem isn't the terms of
the words. The problem is are you

682
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:31,840
giving improper reverence to a creature that's
due only to God? That's what idolatry

683
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:37,519
is. Mister Pink nineteen ninety two, five dollars can I speak? I

684
00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:45,840
have the highest IQ question? All
right, let's see way you dropped off,

685
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:47,360
So if you're still in the chat, pop back on a, mister

686
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:52,320
pink, apologize. I just now
got to your question here. We couldn't

687
00:57:53,079 --> 00:57:55,920
get you. You couldn't hear me
when you popped on DC would work in

688
00:57:55,960 --> 00:58:00,440
three dollars. Thank you so much. Appreciate that that long key boy,

689
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:04,760
three dollars. I couldn't ask on. Next, I'm gonna ask you here,

690
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:07,440
how does the Orthodox Church know dogma? I mean, I'm not trying

691
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:10,440
to be rude, but like maybe
we've answered this question literally every time we

692
00:58:10,519 --> 00:58:14,039
do a live stream, so you
can just go watch some of the other

693
00:58:14,079 --> 00:58:16,159
live streams. I'm sorry, I'm
just like I can't answer that. One

694
00:58:16,159 --> 00:58:22,360
thing that I really just don't like
about doing the live streams is answering the

695
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:25,679
same question like fifty times. And
I'm not trying to knock you guys.

696
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:30,639
I appreciate the three dollars, but
like literally you could just go probably listen,

697
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:36,159
just pick any of the previous open
Q and A debates and that that

698
00:58:36,239 --> 00:58:39,599
question is gonna come up, or
just go watch ubi's video on how we

699
00:58:39,639 --> 00:58:45,079
know what Orthodox dogma is so and
by the way, the Roman Catholic Church

700
00:58:46,239 --> 00:58:50,679
saying that we have the papacy,
it actually doesn't give you what the dogmas

701
00:58:50,679 --> 00:58:53,400
are either, so it doesn't even
do that work. Dom l Cardio ten

702
00:58:53,480 --> 00:59:04,079
dollars. What is the argument against
Krishna and others before Jesus going through crucifixion,

703
00:59:04,159 --> 00:59:07,320
born of a virgin and so on
and so on. Well, again,

704
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:10,440
it's another type of word concept fallacy, and it's it's also a genetic

705
00:59:10,559 --> 00:59:15,800
fallacy. The fact that there's similarities
in the religions doesn't have anything to do

706
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:20,679
or doesn't prove that it comes from
the other, right, It's just it's

707
00:59:20,679 --> 00:59:24,079
a non secutor's genetic fallacy. It's
also a historical fallacy. Just because something

708
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:30,239
comes beforehand doesn't necessarily mean that the
religion has its origin from there. So

709
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:35,639
there might be some religious claim to
a virgin birth, but that doesn't mean

710
00:59:35,639 --> 00:59:39,480
that Christianity therefore derived its doctrine of
the version of birth from that pagan religion.

711
00:59:40,079 --> 00:59:44,360
It's just it's just and that's all
ways, Like all of the zeitgeist

712
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:53,000
level arguments are based on these fallacies. And I've never heard of Krishna being

713
00:59:53,039 --> 00:59:58,239
crucified. I mean, is that
is that a thing? Maybe it is,

714
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:01,880
I don't know, but I mean
the argumentation of crucifixion and whatnot in

715
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:08,320
this biblical revelation has nothing to do
with Krishna. Uh, I'll be uh,

716
01:00:08,719 --> 01:00:12,840
I'll be uh. No, I
can't even pronounce whatever. I'm guessing

717
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:20,199
this is some Hebrew roots stuff.
Go ahead, talking about Christian and shua

718
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,000
she was said, all who came
before me are liars and thieves. And

719
01:00:23,079 --> 01:00:30,679
so that explains everybody who came before
him. Well not everybody, like I

720
01:00:30,679 --> 01:00:36,599
mean, not Moses. Right,
he's talking about the negative entities. Yeah,

721
01:00:38,079 --> 01:00:40,320
yeah, I would agree with that. So what's your position, what

722
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:45,079
are you what are you arguing?
Oh? No, I was just popping

723
01:00:45,119 --> 01:00:49,239
in because somebody's talking about Krishna,
right, So if you want to talk

724
01:00:49,239 --> 01:00:54,679
about Krishnan, right, that's Shiva. So all Krishna is is another representation

725
01:00:54,840 --> 01:01:00,440
is Shiva. And so yeah,
and so Shiva's represented. They worship him

726
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:07,440
with linams with an eight sided,
eight sided like figure like an idol,

727
01:01:07,519 --> 01:01:10,800
right. And then so if you
look at the temple mount right, and

728
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:15,400
you'll see on top of there is
just a lingam has eight sides with the

729
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:17,920
thing in the middle. It's just
not extended up very high because it's a

730
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:21,679
dumb yeah, right, and so
what it is a linom? They work

731
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:25,199
worship Shiva because Shiva, Lucifer and
everybody else who is Ashua, right,

732
01:01:25,719 --> 01:01:30,679
they're all on the same team.
Uh well, I agree with that principle,

733
01:01:30,679 --> 01:01:34,639
but I don't think that it sounds
like if you're using the terminology Yeshua,

734
01:01:34,719 --> 01:01:38,360
that you're into some Hebrew roots thing, which is silly. So you're

735
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:43,239
saying that Hebrew did not come before
English, Well again, that would be

736
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:46,119
the historicist fallacy. It doesn't really
matter what came first in this regard because

737
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:51,880
the word it does because English came
from Hebrew. It wouldn't matter because the

738
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,519
reference is what matters. So this
is a word. It's a superstition to

739
01:01:54,599 --> 01:01:59,400
think that somehow like saying the word
yes Shua makes you like better or more

740
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:02,159
holy or something thing. Oh no, that wouldn't make better and more holy

741
01:02:02,239 --> 01:02:07,760
unless you used it to get yourself
saved, as only one name is salvation,

742
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:10,400
right yeah, sure, yeah,
saves. Uh huh. So you

743
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:15,599
and you think Jesus doesn't mean the
same thing, Well, Jesus is a

744
01:02:15,639 --> 01:02:20,400
transliteration, right. But if we
go back, Okay, but so are

745
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:24,920
you a Hebrew? Are you Hebrew? Well, I guess I'm Jewish.

746
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:30,920
If you consider a Jewish being born
again? Are you a Hebrew in terms

747
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:34,760
of your edison? Right? So
why are you trying to why are you

748
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:38,440
trying to act like you're Hebrew?
Oh? No, it's because my Messiah

749
01:02:38,559 --> 01:02:45,880
was Yeah, but the Messiah intended
if you read Isaiah like say, forty

750
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:50,239
nine fifty to fifty one, the
Messiah intended that message to go out to

751
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:53,960
the Gentiles and intended that message to
be translated into all of their languages.

752
01:02:54,960 --> 01:03:00,960
First of the Jews, thento the
Gentiles. Is the actual verse? Which

753
01:03:00,039 --> 01:03:05,840
verse I'm talking about Isaiah? I'm
talking about New Testament? I No,

754
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:10,199
Isaiah's not in the New Testament'm talking
about the Book of Isaiah, which eleven

755
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:14,199
two, right, And then it
was like a twelve to two. No,

756
01:03:14,559 --> 01:03:17,679
I said Isaiah forty eight forty nine
fifty, which talks about the Gentile

757
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:21,719
nations coming into the Covenant. That
happened in the first, second, third,

758
01:03:21,719 --> 01:03:24,440
fourth, fifth, sixth century.
You know that right still today?

759
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:28,559
Okay, but what was the church
doing in the first, second, third,

760
01:03:28,599 --> 01:03:31,679
fourth, fifth sixth century? What
was the church doing? Are you

761
01:03:31,719 --> 01:03:35,440
not going to answer the question?
What was the church doing in the first,

762
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:42,079
second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth century? Probably all right,

763
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:52,119
you're an idiot. This is what
you get with Hebrew Roots goobers.

764
01:03:52,519 --> 01:03:54,719
I was hoping they would call in. We've only got one of them.

765
01:03:54,719 --> 01:04:00,760
Finally after like an hour. Uh
kaish dark, what's up? Kai Shark?

766
01:04:02,519 --> 01:04:32,800
H what's up? Kai Shark?
Yeah? What's up? Oh?

767
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:39,320
Oh? All right. I'm a
big fan, thank you, but I

768
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:43,760
was jo. I'm sorry, man, I can't hear you your I can't.

769
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:48,400
I appreciate that I can't, but
I just can't hear it. Uh,

770
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:56,559
Judah Hicks, We've got another Hebrew
Roots man, Judah, Hey,

771
01:04:56,599 --> 01:05:00,239
brother, how are you doing?
What's up? Hey? I just had

772
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:06,159
a few questions on some transcendental argumentation. I wanted to hear your thoughts on

773
01:05:06,239 --> 01:05:15,119
it. What's up? So?
I know you probably addressed this point before.

774
01:05:15,679 --> 01:05:18,760
But when we talk about transcendental categories
and how they relate to knowledge,

775
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:24,760
when we use this to create a
critique, like an atheistic perspective, the

776
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:30,760
question would be is why can these
transcendental categories not just exist in a presupposed

777
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:34,320
form and compared to being grouped in
the same way ideas with pre supposed to

778
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:38,480
go Well, I mean it because
it doesn't do the work of grounding.

779
01:05:38,519 --> 01:05:41,440
To just say they are it's arbitrary. Well they just are, but just

780
01:05:41,519 --> 01:05:45,559
are what? Just are where?
It doesn't it doesn't do any work.

781
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:49,559
Okay, I mean that's what That's
what Matt Dela Hunty says. When Matt

782
01:05:49,599 --> 01:05:53,760
dal hunting Day says, well,
they just are just are what And by

783
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:55,639
the way, Matt, didn't you
say not to believe in anything that you

784
01:05:55,679 --> 01:06:00,920
don't have physical evidence for. Yeah, and so you were would just be

785
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:04,320
in what form? Do they exist? I don't. Well to say they

786
01:06:04,519 --> 01:06:12,360
just are does and says nothing?
Just are what? Just are? Where?

787
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:16,119
Just are applicable to reality and actualize? That's begging the question. We're

788
01:06:16,159 --> 01:06:25,480
asking their status, their existence,
their justification, and so you just don't

789
01:06:25,519 --> 01:06:30,599
think them being presupposed is a form
of that doesn't say that doesn't tell us

790
01:06:30,639 --> 01:06:34,920
anything. Presupposed to be where,
pre supposed to be what? Okay,

791
01:06:35,639 --> 01:06:43,000
you appreciate. So that's just saying
that we uh, when we make claims,

792
01:06:43,679 --> 01:06:46,639
we assume they are. But we're
not asking do you do that?

793
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:51,920
We're asking what they are. It's
a different question. So the question is

794
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:58,480
more similar to what are the transndental
category, what's their ontological status. Where

795
01:06:58,519 --> 01:07:01,840
are they and how are they?
You mean by how do you mean or

796
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:09,320
the action? I mean their mode
actually their mode of existence? Okay,

797
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:14,280
so what do you mean their mode
exactly? Of course, their mode is

798
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:18,639
a philosophical term for the way a
thing exists, how it exists. Okay,

799
01:07:18,679 --> 01:07:25,079
So where are these categories? How
do they exist in the same That's

800
01:07:25,079 --> 01:07:28,480
a good question. I don't know. I don't know the answer. Well,

801
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:31,079
but I'm saying that's what we're asking
when we ask for that type of

802
01:07:31,199 --> 01:07:38,159
justification. That's why we go to
things like Christian metaphysics. So that's how

803
01:07:38,159 --> 01:07:44,320
we get to grounding them and whatnot. Surge, what's up? Surge?

804
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:58,639
Y'all having fun today? We had
about twelve hundred at one point, so

805
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:05,440
that's a good day. I'm mute, man, Yes, sir, yes,

806
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:10,800
Surge. Thanks, yeah, a
J. I have a question about

807
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:18,560
communion in both kinds? Is I
think the Roman Catholics say that it's permissible

808
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:25,159
to give only the host, and
to say that it's not with be a

809
01:08:25,199 --> 01:08:31,239
metaphysical issue, because then you would
divide up, you would divide up Christ

810
01:08:31,399 --> 01:08:36,960
and separate his body with his blood. Is that something you've heard against?

811
01:08:38,359 --> 01:08:43,399
I guess both kinds or I mean, it's just the Orthodox Church does the

812
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:46,840
traditional ancient practice and that's why we
give it to babies, and so the

813
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:53,640
Roman Catholic Church departed from all this
under the Carolinian era. So I mean,

814
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:58,199
we're we're not sitting here trying to
figure out the scientific elements of what

815
01:08:58,239 --> 01:09:01,039
you're partaking of when you have we
just do it the way the Church has

816
01:09:01,039 --> 01:09:05,880
always done it. So I mean, it's a silly Roman Catholic argument that

817
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:09,920
they have that's gonna be rude to
you, but it really just misses the

818
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:13,239
whole point. It's open for me. If you guys want to come on

819
01:09:13,319 --> 01:09:15,800
and ask your questions, make your
arguments, that means you make an actual

820
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:23,119
argument. That means you give a
supporting positions, give a logical account of

821
01:09:23,159 --> 01:09:26,079
why you believe this or that thing. If you've already been on here and

822
01:09:26,119 --> 01:09:30,560
asked multiple questions, then please.
We're looking for other people who disagree.

823
01:09:30,079 --> 01:09:34,039
So we've had multiple people on today
who have asked questions, which is fine.

824
01:09:34,039 --> 01:09:38,760
I don't mind answering everybody's questions,
but really looking for people who have

825
01:09:39,319 --> 01:09:45,319
specific disagreements who want to argue their
position versus our position. You're welcome to

826
01:09:45,319 --> 01:09:49,840
hop on and do that. Just
make arguments telling me that the church fathers

827
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:54,720
are just looking for something to eat. It's just dumb, wasting everybody's time.

828
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:57,920
We want actual argumentations for the position. We want to know why this

829
01:09:58,079 --> 01:10:01,680
is the case. Remember, one
of the common mistakes that seems to be

830
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:05,119
made all the time is that people
don't know what it means to give an

831
01:10:05,119 --> 01:10:10,760
account for the position. That means
to tell me why I should believe your

832
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:15,399
position. That doesn't mean you tell
me a big story telling me the story

833
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:24,319
doesn't tell me why your position's correct. Lady die, lady, d Lady,

834
01:10:24,399 --> 01:10:32,279
d Ady d lady d lady died
Diane There, Yes, ma'am,

835
01:10:32,319 --> 01:10:38,199
what's up? Oh? Can I
please comment on the Communion for the gentleman?

836
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:45,800
Okay? Yeah, I'm My family
beat for me was Catholic Italian,

837
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:49,279
and you know, everybody was Catholic. But then my mom married a rodeo

838
01:10:49,319 --> 01:10:54,960
cowboy and he would not go to
Catholic church in southern Colorado, and so

839
01:10:55,239 --> 01:10:59,399
we went to the Baptist church,
so Protestant, okay. And I know

840
01:10:59,439 --> 01:11:02,600
that Catholic has just always, you
know, gotten stuck in so many different

841
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:08,760
areas as far as over the years, and you know who's ever infiltrated in

842
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:12,159
this and that and just all of
it. But I'm so glad I wasn't

843
01:11:12,359 --> 01:11:16,359
a part of that because honestly,
it is just beautiful to focus on Jesus

844
01:11:16,359 --> 01:11:20,840
came for us and the simplicity in
God, who God is. But let

845
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:24,279
me let all of you know.
I know there's a lot going on that

846
01:11:24,319 --> 01:11:30,359
we've uncovered, you know about these
ancient people who enjoyed. So do you

847
01:11:30,399 --> 01:11:32,119
have a topic that? So I'm
not trying to be rude, but today's

848
01:11:32,159 --> 01:11:36,399
topic is debating the topics I'll get
it right. Is that. No,

849
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:41,479
it has nothing to do with anything
differs at all. It's remembering Jesus and

850
01:11:42,119 --> 01:11:45,479
his body because it died for us
and his blood was sacrifice. But that's

851
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:48,840
it, okay for communion. Don't
let it go that opposite direction. Well,

852
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:53,640
Jesus said it's actually partaken of his
flesh and blood, so that's not

853
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:58,640
true. Yeah, well it's okay, but they're trying to associate it with

854
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:02,159
something else that was are nefarious,
you know, and I don't want them

855
01:12:02,159 --> 01:12:08,520
to go there at all. People
there too, Yeah, because it's right

856
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:12,600
can you well appreciate that we're gonna
move on to the next question. Rayon

857
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:16,479
Rayon, silk or maybe even denim. It really doesn't matter. As long

858
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:26,880
as you're in a you could break
caughts and manipulate minds. Rayon Rayon,

859
01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:30,640
you hear me? Yes, yes, sir? All right, I had

860
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:33,680
one. I have one question.
So I've noticed they are religious people often

861
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:43,920
criticized atheists for a conical morality in
the opfice of God. For what but

862
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:49,439
you're cutting out? Can you start
over? Okay? Can you hear me

863
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:58,399
now? Ah? Yes, so
kah. Very often we can't hear you,

864
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:08,960
man. You're cutting out, morn
and all of that cutout. Dude,

865
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:11,359
I'm sorry all of that cut out. We didn't hear any of it.

866
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:21,439
Elisha. Elisha super Chat says,
thank you for helping me. I'm

867
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:28,960
struggling with monasticism. Well just decide
that with your spiritual father. Romans twelve

868
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:33,520
too Protestants say man made tradition.
Romans twelve two says, do not be

869
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:39,920
conformed to this world, be transformed
by the renewing of your mind or what

870
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:44,880
does I don't understand what does that
have to do with man made traditions.

871
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:47,199
I don't get it. That Wonky
boy, three dollars, Thank you so

872
01:13:47,319 --> 01:13:50,920
much for that. Appreciate it.
How can I respond to the Roman Catholic

873
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:58,960
religion of my forefathers that I shouldn't
convert because the forefathers were fine? I

874
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:00,359
mean, I don't understand this so
argument. I hear this all the time.

875
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:04,079
It's like, what does your forefathers
have to do with whether that's the

876
01:14:04,119 --> 01:14:08,439
true religion? I mean, should
a Buddhist, well, my granddad was

877
01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:12,640
a Buddhist or a Satanist. My
granddad was a famous Satanist. That's the

878
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:15,199
religion of my family. It's a
mindless argument. I don't get it.

879
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:25,640
So if your family members aren't interested
in questioning the heritage argument, which is

880
01:14:26,439 --> 01:14:31,359
the fallacy, like just ask them
say, well, should a Buddhist remain

881
01:14:31,399 --> 01:14:34,600
a Buddhist because his granddad was a
Buddhist? It doesn't make any sense.

882
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:45,920
Elisha, what's up? I'm mute
man, Sorry. I have a couple

883
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:50,520
of questions about tag. The first
of all, so like, I don't

884
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:57,800
know if you saw father Deacon whenever
you like debated the two like most friends

885
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:01,760
or most respectful atheists, I think
that's what the title was they brought like

886
01:15:02,119 --> 01:15:04,680
one of them was amp deer,
and he brought up a point at the

887
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:08,399
end, he was saying that,
like, yeah, did you so we've

888
01:15:08,399 --> 01:15:11,079
already addressed it in the paper.
He wrote a paper addressing this. We

889
01:15:11,119 --> 01:15:15,039
did it. We just did a
podcast on his paper. Okay, sorry

890
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:20,279
I didn't see like, oh sorry, I like still have the question after

891
01:15:20,399 --> 01:15:27,840
reading the paper and watching the podcast. I don't know if I can.

892
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:30,359
I can. I don't know if
I can answer every question of his paper,

893
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:34,840
but I'll answer to the best of
my knowledge. Go ahead. The

894
01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:41,960
second one is like, how does
tag prove revelatory seism and not just like

895
01:15:42,159 --> 01:15:46,960
intentional, because because all of the
other because all of the other elements are

896
01:15:47,319 --> 01:15:51,640
assumed in the position of Christian metaphysics
in the Christian worldview. So in other

897
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:55,640
words, it's a it's a package
deal, an argument for an entire paradigm.

898
01:15:55,960 --> 01:16:00,960
So it's not an argument for one
idea about God being intent, it's

899
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:08,840
the entire Christian paradigm that's assumed in
the argument. Okay, God, So

900
01:16:10,279 --> 01:16:15,199
how is the entire paradigm like how
is that being proved by Tag? And

901
01:16:15,319 --> 01:16:20,359
not just the argument is for the
paradigm. It's for the Trinity and the

902
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:29,000
entire Christian revelation. It's an entire
argument, holistic. Okay, Okay,

903
01:16:29,039 --> 01:16:31,680
I think I think it's not saying
that it's true because it's in the in

904
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:38,239
the argument. It's saying that the
argument is for this entire paradigm. Okay,

905
01:16:38,279 --> 01:16:40,680
Okay, I'm starting to see.
Oh, yeah, that makes more

906
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:45,079
sense, Thank you so much.
Yeah, you can look at one way

907
01:16:45,119 --> 01:16:50,880
to see this, which illustrates the
arguments in regard to meta logic and how

908
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:58,600
that works. Is the the argument
that's had between the tortoise and Achilles.

909
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:03,439
Are you familiar with this? Okay, So this is a famous problem that

910
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:10,079
Lewis Carroll raised in his It's sort
of attached to through the looking Glass.

911
01:17:10,119 --> 01:17:18,279
He was a mathematician and he wrote
this little essay and it's about this fictional

912
01:17:18,319 --> 01:17:25,920
dialogue between it's called a paradox.
It's a fictional dialogue between Achilles and a

913
01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:31,520
tortoise. And here's a video right
here that explains it from a philosophical website.

914
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:35,000
What the tortoise said to Achilles explained. It's a five minute video.

915
01:17:35,119 --> 01:17:38,840
I think that makes it really clear. I just went into this in a

916
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:44,600
lot of detail with my part two
for analyzing through the looking Glass, because

917
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:48,039
in Through the Looking Glass there's a
lot of areas where Lewis Carroll does not

918
01:17:48,119 --> 01:17:55,760
just wordplay but also number games,
number play and number theory, and it

919
01:17:55,800 --> 01:18:00,359
starts to edge over into the stuff
that's discussed by Gus Hofstad or in Gardell

920
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:04,239
esher Bach, and so it gets
into the strange loop stuff where he talks

921
01:18:04,279 --> 01:18:11,159
about how the mathematical principles of the
limitations of set theory in Girdell's in completeness

922
01:18:11,239 --> 01:18:16,039
theorems, this relates to the problem
of the Tortoises argument that you can actually

923
01:18:16,159 --> 01:18:24,000
show that in affirming one statement in
terms of logic, you're actually also necessarily

924
01:18:24,039 --> 01:18:28,159
affirming an infinite set of statements,
and so it ends up being an infinite

925
01:18:28,199 --> 01:18:32,680
loop. And it's a kind of
paradox that's not really solvable unless we admit

926
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:38,479
that there's limitations to first order logic. That's the point. That's the point

927
01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:42,560
of why we were saying that the
sets eventually appeal out of themselves outside of

928
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:45,520
themselves. And when I brought up
this to one of those guys, I

929
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:49,560
forget which one. He said,
you can't bring in Gardell's in completeness theorems,

930
01:18:49,560 --> 01:18:53,880
because that's different. It's illustrating the
point that I'm making. I'm not

931
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:58,359
saying that into completeness theorem is a
transcendental argument. I'm saying that it illustrates

932
01:18:58,399 --> 01:19:02,960
how there's a limitation the first order
logic when you ask metalogical questions. This

933
01:19:03,119 --> 01:19:08,159
also illustrates that. And you can
go watch this video as to see how

934
01:19:08,199 --> 01:19:12,600
that is the case. It's called
the tortoise. What the tortoise said to

935
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:43,680
Achilles Rock Barcellos, Rock Barcellos,
I'm mute, yep, I'm from Brazil's

936
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:54,439
sold sorry if I have any difficulty
communicating. I'm a former atheist and I

937
01:19:54,479 --> 01:20:03,399
and I I got convinced about the
arguments for God, and but I'm currently

938
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:15,359
struggling about the about evolution. And
to me, well, I don't I

939
01:20:15,359 --> 01:20:18,039
don't really have much to say about
that today. It's not really the topic's

940
01:20:18,079 --> 01:20:25,000
not really an evolution. But I
mean, I critique evolution from a philosophical

941
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:30,359
perspective. But I'm not trained in
biology, right right, So can I

942
01:20:30,600 --> 01:20:44,279
can I ask something about philosophical about
uh, would you say that the the

943
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:55,479
role of evolution the belief in evolution
in society today. Is it's somewhat religious

944
01:20:55,520 --> 01:21:04,680
perhaps, or it doesn't have a
function right to put humanity down somehow.

945
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:08,920
Yeah, I mean I think that. I think that at basic level of

946
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:12,479
many Orthodox saints in the last one
hundred years and one hundred and fifty years

947
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:15,640
have made this very point that it
degrades man, turns him into an animal,

948
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:20,399
removes his dignity. That was part
of the demonic purpose of it.

949
01:21:20,399 --> 01:21:26,600
It has its origins not in Huxley
th Huxley, but rather in ancient Hindu

950
01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:31,119
thought. So it's an ancient Hindu
mystical pagan religious concept in terms of its

951
01:21:31,159 --> 01:21:42,560
origins. Right, right, and
right. So do you have books that

952
01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:47,800
you can Yeah, so the best
would be Genesis, Creation, Early Man

953
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:54,319
by Father serafrom Rose, which is
kind of the classic Orthodox critique. Guys,

954
01:21:54,359 --> 01:21:58,359
I want to remind you that we
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955
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956
01:22:01,399 --> 01:22:05,640
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957
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958
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959
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:17,520
some more energy left to continue this, hoping we get some disagreeers, some

960
01:22:18,840 --> 01:22:24,640
Hebrew roots, some opposition who would
like to come on and defend their position,

961
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:29,079
or some arians or some you know, if you've got a position that

962
01:22:29,159 --> 01:22:31,680
you disagree, if you're a Muslim, if you're if you're whatever, really

963
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:34,840
would prefer that topic today. I'm
kind of in the mood for that.

964
01:22:38,159 --> 01:22:41,119
And before we get to that,
though, I want you to listen to

965
01:22:41,159 --> 01:22:42,960
this. I don't know if you'd
be able to hear this if you're on

966
01:22:43,119 --> 01:22:45,760
the Twitter space, but I gotta
go to the Little Ladies room. I

967
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:49,159
gotta go tt So, everybody,
just hold your horses. I'll be right

968
01:22:49,199 --> 01:22:54,319
back. I'm gonna put you on
something crazy real quick. Most of these

969
01:22:54,399 --> 01:23:00,279
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970
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973
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974
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if you have an argument, make your

988
01:24:30,239 --> 01:24:33,720
argument. I want to hear your
arguments, whatever your position is. That's

989
01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:39,640
related to the topics today. Again, not many people seem to know what

990
01:24:39,720 --> 01:24:45,039
an argument actually is. Rayon,
you want to try again, ray on

991
01:24:45,279 --> 01:24:48,560
silk, or maybe even dinner.
I'm over here singing some llo cool jay.

992
01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:58,000
Nobody even knows what I'm talking about. Barely speak up? Can you

993
01:24:58,039 --> 01:25:01,359
hear me better? Yeah? Okay? I had a question. So you'd

994
01:25:01,359 --> 01:25:12,760
often see religious people christ we also
have that starting point where we say that

995
01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:18,039
God is good. So you keep
cutting now man, start over? Okay,

996
01:25:18,279 --> 01:25:24,319
Okay, did you hear the whole
thing? At least we'll none of

997
01:25:24,319 --> 01:25:29,159
it? Start over? Okay,
let me start over. Okay. So

998
01:25:29,279 --> 01:25:33,239
religious people often criticize atheists when it
comes to accounting for morality in the offense

999
01:25:33,279 --> 01:25:39,680
of God. Right, yeah,
got it? Okay, when they say

1000
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:43,399
that murder is objectively wrong. We
don't let them have that stance, because

1001
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:45,880
if God doesn't exist, then morality
has to be relative. But I had

1002
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:50,279
the question that we also do make
a starting point, which is that God

1003
01:25:50,359 --> 01:25:55,399
is good and Statan is bad.
So how do we make that judgment?

1004
01:25:56,319 --> 01:26:00,920
We also are making an axiomatic presupposition
when it comes to believing that God is

1005
01:26:01,000 --> 01:26:04,479
ultimately the good one? How do
we make that? Yeah, we we

1006
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:09,920
have. That's the point of the
transcendental argument of presubsu presubsitional argumentation is that

1007
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:14,399
everybody has fundamental starting point axioms.
But the question is how do we give

1008
01:26:14,439 --> 01:26:17,359
a holistic account for those axioms?
And the point is that the atheist doesn't

1009
01:26:17,359 --> 01:26:20,720
have an ability to give an account
for that a justification, and our position

1010
01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:26,079
does. So we're not saying that
we don't have presuppositions and you do.

1011
01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:30,439
We're saying we all have presuppositions.
Who can give an account for those presuppositions?

1012
01:26:30,479 --> 01:26:33,319
That's the tag argument, right,
But why do we not let them

1013
01:26:33,359 --> 01:26:38,000
have that stance where murder is objectively
wrong? Why do we not let them

1014
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:41,840
have that because they can't give an
account for it. They can't give a

1015
01:26:41,960 --> 01:26:46,159
justification. But do you know what
that means? I understand they cannot justify

1016
01:26:46,199 --> 01:26:50,000
their argument. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, so that's that's why argument.

1017
01:26:50,159 --> 01:27:00,479
Thank you for now, Yeah,
yeah, man, thank you. So

1018
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:08,199
we still got a room full.
We're looking for people that haven't called in

1019
01:27:08,319 --> 01:27:11,960
yet. If you have a disagreement, if you have a position on Islam.

1020
01:27:12,239 --> 01:27:15,039
If you have a position on Hebrew
roots, Black Hebrew, Israelites,

1021
01:27:15,079 --> 01:27:21,840
Anti Trinitarianism, Mormonism, Jovah's Witnesses, Protestants, Evangelicals, Catholics, if

1022
01:27:21,880 --> 01:27:29,359
you have an argument that you'd like
to present Islam the Qur'an, it's an

1023
01:27:29,359 --> 01:27:33,399
open four right now for you.
It looks like everybody's filtered out, and

1024
01:27:33,439 --> 01:27:36,560
I don't see anybody else coming on
except people that have already asked questions.

1025
01:27:38,159 --> 01:27:40,680
So not really looking to do the
Q and A again, Guys, We've

1026
01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:44,399
already done a lot of Q and
A tonight. So we're giving a position

1027
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:48,680
to the people that disagree. Next
up is it looks like Mick Wilson.

1028
01:27:48,960 --> 01:28:01,520
What's up, Mick? Mick Wilson
sounds like a beach boy. Yeah,

1029
01:28:01,520 --> 01:28:05,439
how you going, mate? Not
much too much. Look, I just

1030
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:10,840
jumped on the page, But you
know, I like I like this kind

1031
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:15,159
of discussion. I just wanted to
say that belief was the dumbest thing that's

1032
01:28:15,199 --> 01:28:24,680
ever been installed on man. Right, that include all beliefs, like beliefs

1033
01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:30,119
in the regularity of nature, laws
of logic, I mean all beliefs pretty

1034
01:28:30,199 --> 01:28:34,399
much. Yeah, yep, completely
unnecessary. So I shouldn't believe in the

1035
01:28:34,479 --> 01:28:41,399
laws of logic. I don't know
what. You don't have to believe in

1036
01:28:41,479 --> 01:28:45,760
him in any sense. Well,
you said all beliefs, so they exist.

1037
01:28:45,199 --> 01:28:51,800
They exist, right, So it's
just where Well, I don't have

1038
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:56,520
to believe in a flower. I
can see it and prove it to myself.

1039
01:28:56,560 --> 01:28:59,840
I don't have to believe in the
sun. I can feel its effect.

1040
01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:02,319
Well hold on, wait a minute, though, Like maybe that's uh,

1041
01:29:02,680 --> 01:29:05,079
maybe that's all an illusion, Like
how do you know it's an external

1042
01:29:05,079 --> 01:29:11,560
world because I'm not an idiot?
Well, I mean there's plenty, there's

1043
01:29:11,560 --> 01:29:18,199
plenty of intelligent philosophers who don't believe
in an external world. So let's just

1044
01:29:18,239 --> 01:29:24,119
get back. So let's just get
back to religion. Right. Well,

1045
01:29:24,159 --> 01:29:29,239
but I mean you said all beliefs, so sounds to me like you sounds

1046
01:29:29,359 --> 01:29:31,680
My point is that you have a
religion too, it's just not my religion.

1047
01:29:32,960 --> 01:29:36,760
Well, ask me if I know
or I do not know what?

1048
01:29:39,039 --> 01:29:42,960
So I don't like the word belief. Do you believe in fosters beer?

1049
01:29:45,520 --> 01:29:48,399
So if you, if you,
let's just let's just speak to religion because

1050
01:29:48,439 --> 01:29:51,239
that's what you're talking about. Well, My argument is that you have a

1051
01:29:51,279 --> 01:29:57,800
religion too, So well, you
believe in all these principles that you can't

1052
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:03,039
justify like that there's an external world
or that there's laws of logic. Laws

1053
01:30:03,119 --> 01:30:09,640
of logic have come, So what's
what's a law of logic? I can't

1054
01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:16,159
prove the law of identity. I
can't prove what you think. I'm not

1055
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:20,920
so who's talking to you? Well? I mean where in the external world

1056
01:30:20,960 --> 01:30:29,720
is the quote law of identity?
Is it physical external world? What do

1057
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:34,359
you mean by that? Yeah?
I give up, you win, Let's

1058
01:30:34,399 --> 01:30:44,840
move on. Next up is Pablo. What's up, Pablo? Pablo Escobar?

1059
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:46,960
What's up? Man? You get
some of them kilos we sent?

1060
01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:55,319
I was, I was poking that
coca with my pointed finger, revenue on

1061
01:30:55,439 --> 01:30:59,640
my gums. What's up, Pablo? Yeah, you keep shoveling up your

1062
01:30:59,640 --> 01:31:03,680
age, my friend. Keep shoving
the white up jutes, and you'll sleep

1063
01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:09,159
like a baby. That said,
if you don't sleep, you can always

1064
01:31:09,159 --> 01:31:14,800
get into if you stimulate. I'tough you can almost get into Islam.

1065
01:31:15,079 --> 01:31:19,760
You can go and study Islam and
then tell me is that it's a good

1066
01:31:19,800 --> 01:31:25,319
thing for the world. I don't
see anything good coming out of that theology.

1067
01:31:26,039 --> 01:31:33,960
Yeah, there are many things I
dislike about Christians, the Christian religions,

1068
01:31:34,079 --> 01:31:39,680
you know, like Catholicism and all
that. There are many things that

1069
01:31:39,800 --> 01:31:45,960
despise about that. But when I
when away all up, there are is

1070
01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:51,960
a much much more positive thing for
the world than Islam. I don't see

1071
01:31:53,560 --> 01:31:56,800
any positives coming out of Islam.
What do you see? No, I've

1072
01:31:56,840 --> 01:32:00,199
debated all the top Muslims except for
Mamaha at the job is the only one

1073
01:32:00,239 --> 01:32:09,319
we haven't been yet, And I
would agree with that. Is that all

1074
01:32:09,359 --> 01:32:13,199
you had on your mind today?
So you know, willing to have an

1075
01:32:13,239 --> 01:32:17,640
argument of devils for good? Uh? Well, I played. I mean

1076
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:21,119
I have a position I'll defend.
I don't know why would I play devil's

1077
01:32:21,119 --> 01:32:28,279
advocate for Islam because speak, well, some people have. I mean,

1078
01:32:28,399 --> 01:32:33,680
what's your position, let's bring up
I mean, you're you're on here.

1079
01:32:33,680 --> 01:32:40,279
What's your position? Well, my
position is I've already stated my position.

1080
01:32:40,479 --> 01:32:42,840
I don't see. Okay, you
don't like Islam, But what's your position

1081
01:32:43,039 --> 01:32:46,960
anything? Okay, well that's not
that's not your own position. Okay,

1082
01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:50,800
all right, that is my position. But however, for the sake of

1083
01:32:50,920 --> 01:32:57,600
argument, I will play devils for
good. Okay, right, Well,

1084
01:32:57,600 --> 01:33:00,520
we're not looking for fake arguments.
We're looking for people who have actual positions

1085
01:33:00,560 --> 01:33:05,359
that they want to defend. So
if you want to come on and if

1086
01:33:05,359 --> 01:33:09,840
you disagree with my positions, if
you're a Protestant, you're a Catholic,

1087
01:33:10,159 --> 01:33:13,359
you're a Muslim, you're an atheist, you're a Joe's Witness, you're a

1088
01:33:13,399 --> 01:33:18,239
Mormon, you are some other position, then request to speak. I'll give

1089
01:33:18,279 --> 01:33:21,079
you the mic. You can come
on and ask your question. We're looking

1090
01:33:21,119 --> 01:33:28,960
for people who disagree to who want
to have a coherent, reasoned debate in

1091
01:33:29,079 --> 01:33:34,520
exchange. And that does not mean
just telling me a story. Okay,

1092
01:33:34,520 --> 01:33:39,000
that's not why your position is the
case. If you have a position an

1093
01:33:39,079 --> 01:33:43,159
argument, you're welcome to bring it
to the table. But we're looking for

1094
01:33:43,199 --> 01:33:46,199
people who disagree, not for people
who just want to tell me your opinions.

1095
01:33:46,720 --> 01:33:49,920
Not interested in that. I'm interested
in the argument for your position.

1096
01:33:50,000 --> 01:33:54,119
Why is your position the case?
Okay, maybe it is the case.

1097
01:33:54,319 --> 01:33:58,720
Maybe you've got the goods, maybe
you can put me in my place.

1098
01:33:59,000 --> 01:34:01,640
Well, here is the chance.
You can have the mic for as long

1099
01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:08,680
as you'd like, within reason.
If you make an argument. Making an

1100
01:34:08,760 --> 01:34:12,960
argument is not the same thing as
arguing. An argument means that you give

1101
01:34:13,000 --> 01:34:20,880
a position with supporting evidences or supporting
logical premise, conclusion, et cetera that

1102
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:26,239
shows that your position is true.
Why do we need to believe your position?

1103
01:34:27,680 --> 01:34:30,199
We know you think your position is
true. We don't need you telling

1104
01:34:30,279 --> 01:34:34,960
us that you think your position is
true. Obviously you're here representing your position.

1105
01:34:36,319 --> 01:34:40,600
So again, I know, guys, we've got multiple people who've already

1106
01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:46,479
talked and asked questions, but they
didn't disagree, and they don't have a

1107
01:34:46,520 --> 01:34:51,239
position to present. So again,
guys, if you disagree, please request

1108
01:34:51,239 --> 01:34:55,960
to speak. All these people requesting
to speak are people who agree or just

1109
01:34:56,000 --> 01:35:00,199
want to tell me their opinions on
stuff. We're not interested in your opinions.

1110
01:35:00,039 --> 01:35:03,279
That's not an argument. And by
the way, there's a bunch of

1111
01:35:03,279 --> 01:35:09,159
people in here, like, uh, nobody wants to come. There's no

1112
01:35:09,279 --> 01:35:14,479
Muslims who can present the argument.
People in the chat said, oh,

1113
01:35:14,479 --> 01:35:19,479
I'm scared. I'm scared. Maybe
we'll go ahead, and I mean,

1114
01:35:19,479 --> 01:35:21,760
if nobody's gonna come home, maybe
we'll just call it a night. I

1115
01:35:21,760 --> 01:35:25,600
don't know, I don't know what
do you guys think, here comes somebody

1116
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:31,199
Horatio. Oh, here they come. Uh, let's see emergent emergencist.

1117
01:35:31,920 --> 01:35:44,279
Emergencist. What's an emergencist? Hey? How you doing? Man? So

1118
01:35:44,359 --> 01:35:49,439
I don't have an argument, but
this is a better argument about I think

1119
01:35:49,479 --> 01:36:00,319
it's generally useless to argue about religion
because it doesn't change the reality of the

1120
01:36:00,359 --> 01:36:08,359
situation, which is people are destroying
the planet. You didn't you already make

1121
01:36:08,399 --> 01:36:13,720
this point a few minutes ago?
Did somebody make the same point? Yeah?

1122
01:36:14,880 --> 01:36:18,720
Oh that's great. Okay, And
so I mean, what does it

1123
01:36:18,760 --> 01:36:21,920
mean? What do you mean destroying
the planet? What are you talking about?

1124
01:36:24,239 --> 01:36:30,800
Well, you're arguing about religion while
petroleum deposits are running out, okay.

1125
01:36:31,319 --> 01:36:36,840
And you believe in the peak oil
scam. That's not really a scam.

1126
01:36:36,880 --> 01:36:42,079
It's a finite resource. Well that
you think that, But I mean,

1127
01:36:42,119 --> 01:36:45,239
I can point you to the people
who dreamt up the scam talking about

1128
01:36:45,239 --> 01:36:49,319
how they would dream it up.
So you believe it's a renewable resource.

1129
01:36:50,239 --> 01:36:53,560
It would seem to be. I
can't prove that, but it seems to

1130
01:36:53,560 --> 01:36:59,039
be that. But you believe that
for you, Well, if it's infinite,

1131
01:36:59,039 --> 01:37:03,640
but it seems to be renew Yest's
no, let's think about the origins

1132
01:37:03,640 --> 01:37:06,880
of the peak. No, let's
think of No, let's think about the

1133
01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:11,920
origins of peak oil. Do you
know where it comes from? You're not

1134
01:37:11,920 --> 01:37:15,600
going to talk about I'm discussing peak
oil. Where does it come from?

1135
01:37:17,119 --> 01:37:19,920
Yeah, I'm making a point about
how you don't know where peak oil comes

1136
01:37:19,920 --> 01:37:27,079
from. That's sophistry asking you a
question to note where this idea comes from

1137
01:37:27,079 --> 01:37:30,000
the sofistory. No, I want
to I want to talk about peak oil.

1138
01:37:31,319 --> 01:37:35,239
It's not that I was discussing.
You brought it up. You brought

1139
01:37:35,279 --> 01:37:40,199
it up. You said, petroleum
deposits are going all right, you're just

1140
01:37:40,199 --> 01:37:46,399
a ridiculous some of them are?
Which ones? You're not going to answer

1141
01:37:46,439 --> 01:37:49,399
the question. Then we're going to
move on. Let's see Horatio, what's

1142
01:37:49,479 --> 01:37:55,159
up? And that was? That's
exact same dude that was on before.

1143
01:37:55,960 --> 01:38:00,239
What's his nonsense? He said the
exact same thing as the other guy,

1144
01:38:00,319 --> 01:38:09,920
trying to pretend like he wasn't the
same dude. I'm mute, Hello,

1145
01:38:10,439 --> 01:38:15,439
what's up? Hello, mister diary. Yeah, I am a fan of

1146
01:38:15,439 --> 01:38:23,560
yours. I love your content.
I have a I have something to say,

1147
01:38:24,399 --> 01:38:32,479
regarding all the religions in the world, how exactly can we logically deduce

1148
01:38:32,640 --> 01:38:46,960
that and Christianity is correct? What's
your account of logic? Well, I

1149
01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:57,399
would say that logic is I had
ground logic in the Christian God. I

1150
01:38:57,439 --> 01:39:00,399
would say, logic is the same
material. It's not something that's tenable that

1151
01:39:00,399 --> 01:39:08,840
we can actually experience in physical sense, but we know it's there. Okay,

1152
01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:11,720
Well, I mean that's my move. So where where are we disagreeing?

1153
01:39:11,840 --> 01:39:15,319
So that that's the same argument I
would make? Well, I would

1154
01:39:15,439 --> 01:39:20,520
say, I mean, because I
know that Islam makes a similar type of

1155
01:39:20,640 --> 01:39:27,039
argument to say that big ground truth
and a law. But well, I

1156
01:39:27,079 --> 01:39:29,920
mean, but they're also empiricists,
So how's that going to work? I

1157
01:39:29,960 --> 01:39:32,600
mean, unless they're like Shia Islam. I mean, the rest of them

1158
01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:36,359
are empiricists. So how are you
going to ground it in a thing that

1159
01:39:36,399 --> 01:39:43,119
you never experienced saying what you're saying? And that is a good point,

1160
01:39:44,079 --> 01:39:48,880
But that's and I don't I don't
really disagree with you in anything. Okay,

1161
01:39:49,079 --> 01:39:53,680
Well, appreciate that. I'm gonna
you're cutting out a little bit.

1162
01:39:53,720 --> 01:40:08,359
So we're gonna go over here to
Zionist something. Go ahead, make sure

1163
01:40:08,359 --> 01:40:13,079
it's on topic. We're not talking
about you have politics today, Thank you,

1164
01:40:13,119 --> 01:40:18,279
sir. Sir started listening to you
guys, I'm just getting a feel

1165
01:40:18,399 --> 01:40:28,880
for I've never seen you before.
But somebody mentioned religion, and what I

1166
01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:33,600
heard his question was, how do
we know Christian was the correct religion?

1167
01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:36,720
That what he asked, Well,
he started with that, but then he

1168
01:40:36,800 --> 01:40:41,960
was basically saying, I agree with
all your positions. So I was moving

1169
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:50,399
on because I was looking for people
who disagreed. Okay, I feel I

1170
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:58,359
can't defend Judaism without destroying somebody else's
faith in their religion. But my question

1171
01:40:58,520 --> 01:41:03,880
would be to retort question. No
need to answer it, but every person

1172
01:41:03,960 --> 01:41:14,560
needs to think about it. Judaism
was founded upon hush Him coming to the

1173
01:41:14,640 --> 01:41:23,920
people as a nation as a whole
and giving them a choice to follow him

1174
01:41:24,159 --> 01:41:30,199
and then well then to begin with
like a family and then a tribe.

1175
01:41:30,880 --> 01:41:34,880
Yes, but at Mount Signa he
gave the Ten Commandments. I'm aware,

1176
01:41:34,920 --> 01:41:40,079
but I'm saying that he appeared to
Abraham, which is before Mount Signa.

1177
01:41:40,399 --> 01:41:45,479
Yes, but my point is,
you know it led up to that.

1178
01:41:45,159 --> 01:41:54,199
But at Mount Sinai Hashim revealed himself
to a whole nation at once. One

1179
01:41:54,199 --> 01:42:00,399
other religion can say that, thank
you. Yeah, I mean I think

1180
01:42:00,800 --> 01:42:08,039
as a Christian we would agree with
that. But what are you evangelical or

1181
01:42:08,079 --> 01:42:16,359
you a Hebrew roots Messianic believer or
something. No, I'm I'm a I'm

1182
01:42:16,439 --> 01:42:25,159
Jewish. I converted from Southern Baptist
Us. And my point of contention is,

1183
01:42:27,720 --> 01:42:33,960
you know, Judaism was first.
God does not change. He says

1184
01:42:34,039 --> 01:42:41,640
he is never changing. So it
became to the Jewish people, why would

1185
01:42:41,640 --> 01:42:47,039
he change more than your Testament?
Well, I mean, does God appear

1186
01:42:47,079 --> 01:42:56,159
in the Old Testament as a unitarian
deity or as more than one? It

1187
01:42:56,279 --> 01:43:03,199
plainly states he is singular and his
into he has multiple aspects, just like

1188
01:43:03,359 --> 01:43:10,279
you have an angry side to you, you have a joyous So who appeared

1189
01:43:10,279 --> 01:43:21,560
to Abraham? Assume so God has
a form. He can be in multiple

1190
01:43:21,560 --> 01:43:28,039
spots at once. So when the
Psalms in this in Psalm one ten,

1191
01:43:28,720 --> 01:43:34,520
who's talking to who in that Messianic
song? I'm not familiar with that.

1192
01:43:35,159 --> 01:43:40,600
So you converted out of the religion
when you appear to not be familiar with

1193
01:43:40,640 --> 01:43:45,920
the fact that even in the Old
Testament there's multiplicity to Yahweh. I don't

1194
01:43:45,960 --> 01:43:48,560
have anything memorized. That's what I'm
saying. Well, you don't sound like

1195
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:54,600
you don't know anything about it,
so you can quote the bibble any verse,

1196
01:43:54,720 --> 01:43:59,760
any chapter and tell exactly what it's
talking about. It's not an argument.

1197
01:44:00,680 --> 01:44:02,680
I mean, I'm basically pointing out
that in many places we have an

1198
01:44:02,720 --> 01:44:05,840
angel of the Lord who's called Yahweh. Who's the angel of the Lord.

1199
01:44:08,840 --> 01:44:18,159
That I just gave an opinion,
and like I said, moving on,

1200
01:44:20,600 --> 01:44:35,359
just luke, what's up? Yes, sir, hey, I was just

1201
01:44:36,239 --> 01:44:41,479
gonna ask if you had any good
book recommendations for like Trinitarian theology, just

1202
01:44:41,560 --> 01:44:47,680
to get like a good word that
I understand. I mean, yeah,

1203
01:44:47,840 --> 01:44:57,359
you could read on the Orthodox Faith
by John Damascus. You could read anything

1204
01:44:57,439 --> 01:45:03,880
by like Saint maxim As. You
can read anything think by Triads. I

1205
01:45:03,960 --> 01:45:12,640
got the Cosmic Mystery one, so
we'll read the read the Triads, all

1206
01:45:12,720 --> 01:45:26,960
right, thanks, sir? Yeah, House of something, blim House of

1207
01:45:27,039 --> 01:45:40,840
blim something. Hello, mister Dyer. Yeah, I was wondering about I

1208
01:45:40,880 --> 01:45:46,720
heard another arguments before about a Catholic
person or like someone was decided to become

1209
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:58,880
Catholic and he was wondering about the
miracles? Miracles? Can you? Yeah?

1210
01:46:00,319 --> 01:46:02,880
How do I say it? Yeah? So the Orthodox Church doesn't have

1211
01:46:02,920 --> 01:46:08,760
the same view of eucharistic miracles.
The Orthodox Church stops the service of this

1212
01:46:09,199 --> 01:46:14,319
something like this happens because we don't
want to fall into prelast. But miracles

1213
01:46:14,319 --> 01:46:24,800
don't prove or disprove the position anyway. But Jesus uh prove his godsness by

1214
01:46:24,840 --> 01:46:29,279
by by showing the miracles, by
eating the miracles attest to the position.

1215
01:46:29,359 --> 01:46:32,840
They don't prove it. They're they're
like attestations, but they obviously themselves they

1216
01:46:32,840 --> 01:46:35,840
can't prove it. And Jesus themselves
says that you seek for a sign and

1217
01:46:35,880 --> 01:46:42,199
then we'll be given to you.
A wicked generation seeks signs Ah, But

1218
01:46:42,239 --> 01:46:49,399
why do those miracles happen? Do
you recognize the miracles or no? I

1219
01:46:49,399 --> 01:46:53,399
mean, we don't have any.
We don't make any statement on that,

1220
01:46:54,079 --> 01:46:58,479
because how would a how would how
would a miracle claim prove a position?

1221
01:46:58,920 --> 01:47:02,520
If every religious view claims miracles,
is this not obvious that that may be

1222
01:47:02,560 --> 01:47:11,079
a fallacy? You don't see why
that wouldn't work. But there's something different,

1223
01:47:11,159 --> 01:47:16,000
because the miracles happens in the sphere
of Christianity. It's not different,

1224
01:47:16,039 --> 01:47:20,359
it's not different. The point is
that they don't prove the position. Miracles

1225
01:47:20,399 --> 01:47:28,520
will accompany the correct faith and position, but miracle claims are everywhere, so

1226
01:47:28,560 --> 01:47:47,119
they can't prove the position. Thomas, what's up? Man? And I

1227
01:47:47,199 --> 01:47:53,640
was just going to ask about your
opinion on the MC and church basically pretty

1228
01:47:53,640 --> 01:47:56,239
general question. But well, I
mean, I'm not trying to be rude,

1229
01:47:56,279 --> 01:48:00,479
but like today's debate topic of the
topics listed, what what about it?

1230
01:48:02,560 --> 01:48:06,760
Just whether I obviously appreciate you're part
of the Russian authors Church. I

1231
01:48:06,760 --> 01:48:14,680
mean it's basically because the Metropolitan of
the UK, Siloan, he recently excommunicated

1232
01:48:14,720 --> 01:48:19,119
someone because they rebaptized someone from another
you know, what they consider a heretic

1233
01:48:19,560 --> 01:48:24,760
when he said that Chris motion is
the only necessary thing for someone provided they've

1234
01:48:24,760 --> 01:48:28,680
been baptizing the name of the Trinity. And I was just curious about your

1235
01:48:28,720 --> 01:48:32,319
position on that because I've seen I
think I might be wrong about this before.

1236
01:48:32,359 --> 01:48:36,640
The piece of here says about how
they should be rebaptized basically, and

1237
01:48:36,840 --> 01:48:41,039
you know, someone like Siloan would
suggest that that's kind of a schismatic way

1238
01:48:41,039 --> 01:48:45,039
of looking at it. But yeah, I mean the ro Corps position is

1239
01:48:45,079 --> 01:48:51,760
that the local bishop determines that,
and we do not de facto accept everybody's

1240
01:48:51,800 --> 01:48:56,680
sacraments just because they were performed in
a certain way. So I believe in

1241
01:48:56,720 --> 01:49:00,479
economia, I believe the church makes
that decision, and I think you should

1242
01:49:00,520 --> 01:49:10,279
just listen to your local bishop.
So that's my take. But today's topics

1243
01:49:10,319 --> 01:49:15,199
are disagreements on Catholics, Protestants,
atheist Muslims. I'm not looking for Q

1244
01:49:15,359 --> 01:49:18,279
and A. I mean, We've
done about three hours of Q and A.

1245
01:49:18,319 --> 01:49:21,439
So I'm looking for people who disagree
and you want to present an argument

1246
01:49:21,920 --> 01:49:45,720
ethereal nosis greetings was I added?
Yeah, man, what's up? Greetings.

1247
01:49:46,520 --> 01:49:49,640
I hadn't been listening the full time. I was hoping to catch it

1248
01:49:49,680 --> 01:49:53,760
earlier, but I kind of wanted
to introduce something. I'm not sure if

1249
01:49:53,760 --> 01:50:00,199
it was introduced within the context of
the topic O et cetera. Version.

1250
01:50:00,479 --> 01:50:05,520
I think all of these, all
of these Catholic, Protestant, outside of

1251
01:50:05,520 --> 01:50:10,520
atheists, Muslim et cetera, most
of these ETCeteras, they seemed to all

1252
01:50:10,520 --> 01:50:14,880
come from an initial source et cetera. What are you talking about? Well,

1253
01:50:15,439 --> 01:50:17,960
things other than those listed right,
we have. There's lots of different

1254
01:50:17,960 --> 01:50:24,319
branches of Orthodoxy, hundreds of Protestants, there's different branches, and I et,

1255
01:50:24,960 --> 01:50:27,239
there's not a lot of branches of
Orthodoxy. So I don't know what

1256
01:50:27,279 --> 01:50:30,439
you mean. Well, there's there's
there's Through, there's Coptic, there's Greek,

1257
01:50:30,720 --> 01:50:34,319
there's I mean, there's there are
those aren't branches of Orthodoxy. Greeks

1258
01:50:34,319 --> 01:50:40,680
are in communion with the rest of
the Orthodox. Coptics aren't to che toche

1259
01:50:41,680 --> 01:50:48,000
Uh what I what I sought to
introduce was the idea that perhaps Jesus was

1260
01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:53,680
was was actually authentically Jewish like like
all of his followers, and he was,

1261
01:50:53,800 --> 01:50:57,359
Yeah, we believe that. So
what about it? Well, why

1262
01:50:57,439 --> 01:51:01,680
why is it that he wouldn't teach
his followers to have the religion of him

1263
01:51:01,760 --> 01:51:06,840
rather than a religion about him that
was founded long after his Have you read

1264
01:51:06,880 --> 01:51:10,760
the Gospels? He says, for
example, in Luke twenty four, that

1265
01:51:10,840 --> 01:51:15,560
all the stuff in Moses and the
Prophets and the Psalms is about him.

1266
01:51:15,079 --> 01:51:18,760
Well, and I concur I would
concur with that. I don't know that

1267
01:51:18,840 --> 01:51:23,199
contradicts what you just said, So
how could you concur with that? I

1268
01:51:23,520 --> 01:51:26,920
concur that it is about him.
That doesn't that you just said it's not

1269
01:51:26,960 --> 01:51:31,560
about him. That means that you
just said it's not about him. No,

1270
01:51:31,680 --> 01:51:36,479
I a religion, that is the
religion he had. The Judaism that

1271
01:51:36,560 --> 01:51:42,119
he had was he just said that
Judaism is about him. It is,

1272
01:51:42,399 --> 01:51:45,840
And I agree. He just said
that that's not true Christianity. You just

1273
01:51:45,880 --> 01:51:50,439
said that's not true. What are
you talking about. I may have misspoken

1274
01:51:51,039 --> 01:51:59,119
in my haste. What I'm trying
to express is the difference between his religion

1275
01:51:59,479 --> 01:52:02,119
and religion that was formed posthumous.
Yeah, that's false. Yeah, that

1276
01:52:02,159 --> 01:52:08,640
didn't happen. It's not true.
Why why is it that all of his

1277
01:52:09,279 --> 01:52:15,840
followers continue to observe Jewish customs?
I mean in the Book of Acts,

1278
01:52:15,840 --> 01:52:21,119
this is explained by Acts fifteen.
Well, what's explained is is actually they're

1279
01:52:21,159 --> 01:52:28,720
talking about certain prohibitions that were against
the Torah, against them, No,

1280
01:52:28,800 --> 01:52:32,119
they weren't. Act fifteen says that
we should not require anything more than what

1281
01:52:32,199 --> 01:52:36,119
Noah had to do in the Noea
Covenant. And so the reasoning of Acts

1282
01:52:36,159 --> 01:52:41,760
fifteen is based on Noah. Well, yes, the Jerusalem Council, but

1283
01:52:41,800 --> 01:52:45,800
we're talking to what he said was
then then they should go and learn and

1284
01:52:45,840 --> 01:52:49,960
you'll find the four things that are
required. Three of them are dietary firstly,

1285
01:52:50,039 --> 01:52:55,600
and then there's sexual immorality. What
we're noticing is is this is the

1286
01:52:55,680 --> 01:52:59,439
requirement. It doesn't say this is
all that one needs to do. Yeah,

1287
01:52:59,439 --> 01:53:00,640
we would agree either. Yeah,
I don't. I don't know what

1288
01:53:00,640 --> 01:53:02,840
you're talking about. I don't know
what you're talking about, because we don't

1289
01:53:02,840 --> 01:53:08,560
say that you only have to follow
four things from the NOA covenant to be

1290
01:53:08,600 --> 01:53:12,600
in the term Jerusalem Council that you're
mentioning was brought to James, and James

1291
01:53:12,640 --> 01:53:16,960
declared there were four things which a
man must do. I disagreed with that,

1292
01:53:17,119 --> 01:53:21,079
I know, and there's more I
know. The day right, So

1293
01:53:21,159 --> 01:53:24,359
that was it was, have you
read the book of Okay? Have you

1294
01:53:24,359 --> 01:53:27,600
read the Book of Hebrews? I
have? Okay, What does this say?

1295
01:53:28,479 --> 01:53:30,960
It? Well, says a lot
of things, in particularly, what

1296
01:53:31,000 --> 01:53:35,880
does this say about what we're talking
about? Well, are you speaking about

1297
01:53:35,920 --> 01:53:40,880
faith and work? Faith? No, about all of the Judaic stuff that

1298
01:53:40,920 --> 01:53:44,520
you want to include, which is
what Acts fifteen is really about, which

1299
01:53:44,560 --> 01:53:47,640
is that Gentiles don't have to become
Jews to be safe. I well,

1300
01:53:47,800 --> 01:53:51,800
and I I would concur with that, But it does Acts fifteen does does

1301
01:53:51,880 --> 01:53:58,800
seem to to to state that they
must attend. It's actually says synagogue on

1302
01:53:58,840 --> 01:54:01,680
Shabbat, doesn't it? Okay,
The point is that they are to go

1303
01:54:01,720 --> 01:54:05,960
and learn the tour hold on.
So what you don't listen, what you

1304
01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:11,880
don't understand, is that what's happening
in Acts is part of a transitionary period.

1305
01:54:12,399 --> 01:54:15,319
So what the Book of Hebrews and
part is talking about is seventy a

1306
01:54:15,439 --> 01:54:17,439
D, which is the destruction of
the Temple. Jesus talked about this in

1307
01:54:17,520 --> 01:54:20,840
Luke twenty one in Matthew twenty four
that when you see the temple destroyed,

1308
01:54:21,319 --> 01:54:26,399
that's the sign that the fullness of
the Old Covenant. Let me finish the

1309
01:54:26,760 --> 01:54:29,520
old all right, I'm gonna be
If you don't stop interrupting me, I'm

1310
01:54:29,560 --> 01:54:31,800
going to boot you. The Old
Covenant is done. When the temple is

1311
01:54:31,800 --> 01:54:35,119
destroyed in seventy a D. That's
what Luke twenty one is talking about.

1312
01:54:35,560 --> 01:54:39,279
So, yes, there are things
that happen in the middle of the Book

1313
01:54:39,319 --> 01:54:45,159
of Acts where there's still temples and
synagogues before Christianity has been booted. From

1314
01:54:45,199 --> 01:54:47,479
the synagogue. And so that's the
point you're missing, is that the New

1315
01:54:47,520 --> 01:54:54,520
Covenant is fully, finally there and
realized by seventy a d. That's the

1316
01:54:54,560 --> 01:55:00,520
point. I fully agree with you
in that believe the Kingdom was established at

1317
01:55:00,520 --> 01:55:06,039
that point fully fully. But I
don't see how that negates the responsibility to

1318
01:55:06,119 --> 01:55:13,640
learn the Torah even outside of the
synagogue. It seems that observing I don't

1319
01:55:13,640 --> 01:55:15,960
know, like we read this.
We read this every day in the church,

1320
01:55:16,000 --> 01:55:19,239
So I don't know what you're talking
about. Well, well, the

1321
01:55:19,279 --> 01:55:24,279
Torah is more than just reading.
It's it's about observing the commandments. They're

1322
01:55:24,319 --> 01:55:27,520
six hundred and thirteen of them.
We should we should strive to keep each

1323
01:55:27,560 --> 01:55:30,640
of those that apply to us.
Yeah, again, you don't even understand

1324
01:55:30,640 --> 01:55:35,640
that the Jewish law itself was never
intended for the nations. It's intended for

1325
01:55:35,720 --> 01:55:40,960
the Jewish people. So when the
Messiah comes, the Messiah decides and his

1326
01:55:41,119 --> 01:55:45,399
church decides what elements are necessary for
the gentiles. So no, we don't

1327
01:55:45,479 --> 01:55:47,119
keep all of the laws that can't
even be kept. It doesn't even make

1328
01:55:47,159 --> 01:55:50,600
sense to be to keep them when
half of those laws, half of those

1329
01:55:50,720 --> 01:55:55,119
laws apply to the Land of Israel, which can't be kept by gentiles.

1330
01:55:55,159 --> 01:55:59,199
It makes no sense. It's not
even the Jewish intention of the law precisely,

1331
01:55:59,239 --> 01:56:03,520
which is why my statement with the
laws which apply to us individually,

1332
01:56:03,920 --> 01:56:08,439
because are you just said six hundred
and thirteen of them, six hundred and

1333
01:56:08,479 --> 01:56:13,880
thirteen laws don't apply to gentiles?
I agree, I agree, But of

1334
01:56:13,920 --> 01:56:18,680
those six thirteen many do and to
be entered into covenant. Still Still,

1335
01:56:19,399 --> 01:56:24,079
this is all of this is,
all of this is missing the point.

1336
01:56:24,319 --> 01:56:28,479
All of this is missing the point
that whatever you're talking about is not Orthodox

1337
01:56:28,600 --> 01:56:30,760
Christianity. That's the only church that
exists. So let's just cut to the

1338
01:56:30,800 --> 01:56:34,840
chase, like, what group are
you a part of? Well, I

1339
01:56:34,880 --> 01:56:39,680
would I'm Jewish? Firstly, Okay, I'm a Jew, and I have

1340
01:56:40,039 --> 01:56:46,920
accepted that Yesua has has has has
an effect fulfilled those prophecies. You have

1341
01:56:47,000 --> 01:56:54,439
to understand what they mean. And
the thing about gentile understanding is it's not

1342
01:56:56,119 --> 01:57:00,279
things aren't translated very well. For
the nay hold On So and Isaiah and

1343
01:57:00,560 --> 01:57:03,359
Isaiah forty nine and fifty. It
says that when the Messiah comes, nations

1344
01:57:03,359 --> 01:57:08,439
will begin to convert, kings and
queens will worship the Jewish Messiah. Do

1345
01:57:08,520 --> 01:57:10,800
you think that happened in the first, second, third, fourth, fifth,

1346
01:57:10,880 --> 01:57:15,960
sixth, seventh century? I do? And what how were those people

1347
01:57:16,000 --> 01:57:23,680
worshiping mostly secret? No? Totally
not true, no idea. What you're

1348
01:57:23,720 --> 01:57:26,439
talking about? How so you think
that in the first, second, third,

1349
01:57:26,479 --> 01:57:31,279
fourth, physical seventh century that the
Church was worshiping secret? I believe

1350
01:57:31,319 --> 01:57:35,279
that. Do you think? Do
you think persecuting? You don't know what

1351
01:57:35,319 --> 01:57:38,560
you're talking about. Do you think
we can read those people? Do you

1352
01:57:38,600 --> 01:57:45,159
think we can go read those people
and their beliefs? Well, considering most

1353
01:57:45,199 --> 01:57:47,880
of the books we have fragments,
no idea? Is what you're talking about

1354
01:57:47,960 --> 01:57:50,399
Rome? Burning the books? What
are you talking about? History? Which

1355
01:57:51,319 --> 01:57:56,399
gives us a lot? Can you
can you read what the Christians of the

1356
01:57:56,439 --> 01:58:00,880
first, second, and third century
taught? I believe? Yet some I

1357
01:58:00,880 --> 01:58:11,000
mean we well, for for example, we we have the homilies of whom

1358
01:58:11,319 --> 01:58:15,239
of Clement because that's one church father. Who else? Well, if we

1359
01:58:15,479 --> 01:58:17,880
have you read them? Have you
read the homilies? For example? I've

1360
01:58:17,880 --> 01:58:20,520
read Clement? Yeah? Have you
read any of these people? I have?

1361
01:58:20,680 --> 01:58:25,159
I have very you read Wait a
minute, you read? You read

1362
01:58:25,199 --> 01:58:28,399
them? Very well? Okay?
Who else you've heard the discussion between Simon

1363
01:58:28,439 --> 01:58:32,520
Magus and Peter within Clement. Right, Well, I don't. We don't

1364
01:58:32,680 --> 01:58:36,079
believe Clement is a saint. He's
not accepted in our church. He's relevant

1365
01:58:36,079 --> 01:58:40,119
as a historical figure. But I'm
talking about the church fathers of the first,

1366
01:58:40,119 --> 01:58:42,479
second, third century on what they
believed. Have you read any of

1367
01:58:42,560 --> 01:58:48,800
them? I have? I have, I have as an exercise of pure

1368
01:58:49,079 --> 01:58:53,560
just just for liturgy, just to
understand. I don't follow or believe any

1369
01:58:53,560 --> 01:58:55,920
of that. Like as I said, I'm a Jew. We well hold

1370
01:58:56,000 --> 01:58:59,119
on. So but what I'm the
point I'm making is that we can figure

1371
01:58:59,159 --> 01:59:01,039
out what the Christians of the first, second, third, fourth, fifth

1372
01:59:01,039 --> 01:59:05,000
century believe by going and reading these
people, and it shows that you're not

1373
01:59:05,039 --> 01:59:11,199
even letting me finish. It shows
that it shows that they are doing and

1374
01:59:11,239 --> 01:59:15,640
fulfilling the types of things predicted,
for example in Isaiah forty nine fifty,

1375
01:59:15,640 --> 01:59:20,199
where we're told that gentile kings will
become priests and worship the Jewish Messiah.

1376
01:59:20,600 --> 01:59:25,760
So that happens in those centuries.
We can go read those people and they

1377
01:59:25,800 --> 01:59:32,039
believe what orthodox Christians today believe somewhat
well, But how do you haven't read

1378
01:59:32,079 --> 01:59:39,760
them so how do you know they
don't, Well, I had some of

1379
01:59:39,800 --> 01:59:46,000
them like who like who, oh
Jerome? What is what does Jerome believe?

1380
01:59:47,119 --> 01:59:55,439
Well, Jerome doesn't actually believe what
I believe. The Nazarenes carrying the

1381
01:59:55,479 --> 02:00:00,520
original Matthew and Hebrew, like he
records that that the original Gazarines observed the

1382
02:00:00,600 --> 02:00:05,840
Sabbath and followed the Law of Moses, and like, there is record of

1383
02:00:05,880 --> 02:00:11,720
this group people that existed prior to
Christians. There was even a debate of

1384
02:00:11,800 --> 02:00:16,680
whether the word Christian should be used
or so when When when the minor prophets,

1385
02:00:17,079 --> 02:00:23,199
When the minor prophets talk about the
gentile nations offering up a pure sacrifice

1386
02:00:23,239 --> 02:00:27,399
and incense to the God of Israel, And when Isaiah talks about gentile priests,

1387
02:00:27,520 --> 02:00:30,000
who is that? It's in your
face, it's staring you in the

1388
02:00:30,000 --> 02:00:35,039
face, all of this stuff.
They're talking about converts, clearly, but

1389
02:00:35,159 --> 02:00:40,439
what I and that is our So
we're talking about the first three century?

1390
02:00:40,800 --> 02:00:45,920
Correct, that's them? No,
that's Isaiah. You're talking about Isaiah prophecy.

1391
02:00:45,039 --> 02:00:47,800
And I hear you. Are you
being a sophist? You know what

1392
02:00:47,840 --> 02:00:55,039
I'm saying here? You're neglecting the
actual fathers that that you chose to bring

1393
02:00:55,119 --> 02:00:59,000
up, Blake, I'm neglecting them. No, you haven't read them.

1394
02:00:59,079 --> 02:01:01,800
That's the point. Those are the
gentile priests that fulfilled these prophecies, that

1395
02:01:01,880 --> 02:01:10,159
offer the sacrifice of the Eucharist.
That's them. It just seems like you're

1396
02:01:10,399 --> 02:01:15,399
avoiding. You're not avoiding anything you
said as a gentile. You said,

1397
02:01:16,000 --> 02:01:20,600
you said, I don't understand the
text. I'm right here in Isaiah forty

1398
02:01:20,680 --> 02:01:25,359
nine and fifty where it prophesies gentile
priests. It profits that. That's the

1399
02:01:25,520 --> 02:01:28,520
end of Isaiah sixty five or sixty
sixty. I hear you, and I

1400
02:01:28,560 --> 02:01:33,760
would I would say that we see
that with Paul going out and start speak

1401
02:01:33,800 --> 02:01:40,239
preaching to the gentiles exactly, and
guess what after hold on. So after

1402
02:01:40,359 --> 02:01:44,920
that period when Jesus says to Matthew
sixteen that the Church, the gates of

1403
02:01:44,960 --> 02:01:48,520
Hell would not prevail against the Church, it's that group that has the extension

1404
02:01:48,640 --> 02:01:54,000
of that gift of Pentecost that goes
out and anoints gentiles to be part of

1405
02:01:54,039 --> 02:01:57,079
that covenant. So the church that
exists in the first, second or third

1406
02:01:57,119 --> 02:02:01,039
century is the same group from Pentecost. There's not a false. That was

1407
02:02:01,079 --> 02:02:09,600
that was overcome by Marcus, and
this was not acceptable, overcome by Marcus.

1408
02:02:09,640 --> 02:02:11,880
I don't know what you're talking about. What are you been talking about.

1409
02:02:12,239 --> 02:02:15,359
I'm talking about when the authentic Nazarenes
when that's yeah, you're you're wrong,

1410
02:02:15,439 --> 02:02:19,399
that's not the church. I'm showing
you how there's no authentic Nazarene sect.

1411
02:02:19,640 --> 02:02:24,640
I'm showing you that the gentile kings
and queens that are prophesied in Isaiah

1412
02:02:24,680 --> 02:02:28,640
forty nine and fifty, they're not
Nazarenes. They're the people in the first,

1413
02:02:28,640 --> 02:02:30,439
second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh century that convert

1414
02:02:30,520 --> 02:02:36,840
the Roman Empire and the other nations
to worship the God of Israel. So

1415
02:02:38,000 --> 02:02:41,119
we are we are we We're just
going to avoid that those are that's that

1416
02:02:41,239 --> 02:02:46,279
is the organization of Constantine that brought
me. It's all bullshit. What you

1417
02:02:46,359 --> 02:02:50,199
believe is bullshit. There is no
changed Church of Constantine. That's why when

1418
02:02:50,239 --> 02:02:53,439
you read the first Church Fathers the
first, second, third century, they

1419
02:02:53,479 --> 02:02:57,600
teach the same thing as the Church
Fathers after Constantine. But you haven't read

1420
02:02:57,640 --> 02:03:00,920
them, and you've evidenced that in
your discussion that haven't read them, because

1421
02:03:00,960 --> 02:03:05,479
you would know that they don't teach
anything different. I mean, they absolutely

1422
02:03:05,520 --> 02:03:09,000
do. No, they don't,
because how would you know if you haven't

1423
02:03:09,039 --> 02:03:12,800
read them. How would you know
if you haven't read them. How would

1424
02:03:12,840 --> 02:03:15,199
you know if you said, I
can tell, you haven't read them.

1425
02:03:15,199 --> 02:03:18,720
So how would you know they changed
the doctrine after Constantine because they were still

1426
02:03:18,760 --> 02:03:23,399
debating over the Trinity at this point. Having a debate does not prove that

1427
02:03:23,439 --> 02:03:28,039
the doctrines changed. They didn't have
a dog. There wasn't Oh wait a

1428
02:03:28,119 --> 02:03:30,000
minute, so you think the you
think the post app assault fathers don't teach

1429
02:03:30,000 --> 02:03:35,359
the Trinity. I know that it
took a while for them to get there

1430
02:03:35,439 --> 02:03:41,760
because initially, Yeah, I've done
an entire lecture. I've done an entire

1431
02:03:41,840 --> 02:03:48,319
lecture with uh Inspiring Philosophy on the
post Apostolic fathers teaching the Trinity. I

1432
02:03:48,880 --> 02:03:53,920
actually, I'm I'm I'm sure to
review that. I follow you, jay

1433
02:03:53,960 --> 02:03:57,359
I, I really I appreciate all
of you. You should go watch watch

1434
02:03:57,399 --> 02:04:01,000
the Inspiring Philosophy talk where we re
butt them Muslim argument that the Church fathers

1435
02:04:01,000 --> 02:04:03,319
of the first, second, and
third century don't teach the Trinity. We

1436
02:04:03,359 --> 02:04:08,439
did a whole two hour talk on
just first and second century fathers on the

1437
02:04:08,439 --> 02:04:11,880
Trinity. So they teach the deity
of Christ, they teach the personhood of

1438
02:04:11,920 --> 02:04:15,520
the Holy Spirit and his deity.
It's all before Constantine. There's no new

1439
02:04:15,640 --> 02:04:19,720
Christianity that Constantine invented. It's not
true. Well, I agree, we

1440
02:04:19,760 --> 02:04:26,880
have Simon Magus in the first century
here when Clement's writings arguing against Peter with

1441
02:04:27,000 --> 02:04:32,359
that very same thing. But you
find Peter stands upon mono theism purely.

1442
02:04:33,279 --> 02:04:39,199
Okay, so mono theism. This
is wrong. This is wrong if you

1443
02:04:39,640 --> 02:04:44,000
look up what monarchical trinitarianism is,
because if you look at this video I

1444
02:04:44,039 --> 02:04:49,199
did where the introductory debate with Daniel
Hikikicho I proved from modern Jewish scholarship that

1445
02:04:49,239 --> 02:04:55,960
there's no such thing as a generic
unitarian monotheism. Modern Jewish scholars are more

1446
02:04:56,000 --> 02:04:59,520
and more admitting, hey, it
actually looks like there's a triad in the

1447
02:04:59,560 --> 02:05:05,359
Old test I mean that that just
sounds like we're reconstructionists. I don't think

1448
02:05:05,359 --> 02:05:10,359
that you're gonna find that the rabbis
that I cite here are not all reformed

1449
02:05:10,439 --> 02:05:14,560
or reconstruction is due. So we're
talking about multiple different scholars and you can

1450
02:05:14,600 --> 02:05:17,600
just go read them. It's a
Boyarin, it's Uh Summers, it's SEAgel.

1451
02:05:17,880 --> 02:05:24,159
They're all talking about how it's clearly
the case that in multiple texts it's

1452
02:05:24,199 --> 02:05:30,520
not just Unitarian. Who's this manifestation
throughout the Old Testament prophets. It's first

1453
02:05:30,560 --> 02:05:35,760
off, I'm not all right because
for the debate I will there is the

1454
02:05:35,840 --> 02:05:40,000
idea of the memory. All right, we have there's there are there's Jewish

1455
02:05:40,039 --> 02:05:47,960
concepts that do not equate to deity. That if the personifications analogies are standard

1456
02:05:48,079 --> 02:05:55,680
uh euphemisms. The problem is that
the problem is that when these Theophanes appear,

1457
02:05:55,800 --> 02:05:59,880
they're called Yahweh and they're worshiped.
So how is it worshiped? And

1458
02:06:00,119 --> 02:06:02,399
by the way, if you believe
the New Touch, just the word means

1459
02:06:02,520 --> 02:06:06,199
bow no, no, you can't. God says, I don't give my

1460
02:06:06,319 --> 02:06:10,359
name to it. I don't give
my name to another. And yet in

1461
02:06:10,439 --> 02:06:14,760
Exodus we're told that the name of
yah you're not even letting me finish.

1462
02:06:14,840 --> 02:06:17,479
The name of Yahweh is in the
Angel that goes before him in Exodus twenty

1463
02:06:17,479 --> 02:06:27,079
three. So how can the name
that's not that's not saying that the name

1464
02:06:27,079 --> 02:06:30,319
of Yahweh is in the Angel of
the Lord, and he's called the Redicted.

1465
02:06:31,880 --> 02:06:35,159
So you don't believe in the price. So you're an anti trinity.

1466
02:06:35,239 --> 02:06:40,279
So that's the point. You're anti
trinitarian. Even though multiple times the Messiah

1467
02:06:40,319 --> 02:06:46,239
is given the name Yahweh. Right, so Jesus is not called Yahweh never.

1468
02:06:46,640 --> 02:06:50,279
Okay, what does Hebrews One say
citing the Psalms about the Son of

1469
02:06:50,279 --> 02:06:57,640
God? So you said, well, hold on, you said. Hebrews

1470
02:06:57,640 --> 02:07:01,039
says a lot of things. It
does memorized the entire thing. You have

1471
02:07:01,079 --> 02:07:04,720
a verse in mind, you should
mention the totality of Hebrews One is about

1472
02:07:04,760 --> 02:07:09,680
the superiority of the Son of God, the eternal Son of God, to

1473
02:07:09,960 --> 02:07:14,600
the angels, because he created all
the angels. Are you familiar with us

1474
02:07:14,680 --> 02:07:17,920
or not? I am familiar with
this interpretation. Now, it's not an

1475
02:07:17,920 --> 02:07:24,159
interpretation. It's multiple texts that are
cited from the Psalms. God, who

1476
02:07:24,159 --> 02:07:27,640
at various times and in various ways
spoke to us and passed by the prophets,

1477
02:07:27,760 --> 02:07:30,000
has in these last days spoken to
us via his son, whom he

1478
02:07:30,039 --> 02:07:33,039
anointed the air of all things,
through whom he made the world. So

1479
02:07:33,079 --> 02:07:36,279
God created the world through his son. Okay, that means that he's not

1480
02:07:36,359 --> 02:07:42,039
a Nazarene Aryan creation. He's the
second person of the Godhead, who being

1481
02:07:42,079 --> 02:07:49,720
the brightness of his glory being created
through through the Word is through if he

1482
02:07:49,720 --> 02:07:54,880
said created you you don't even know
what is in Hebrews one, which is

1483
02:07:54,920 --> 02:07:58,239
a passage about defending the deity of
Christ. And you're here trying to argue

1484
02:07:58,239 --> 02:08:03,760
with me over the word through aramaic
word. There is not the Aramaic word.

1485
02:08:03,880 --> 02:08:07,319
Listen. The whole force of the
passage is that Jesus is the creator

1486
02:08:07,359 --> 02:08:09,199
of the world. As John one
says. It's playing on what the world

1487
02:08:09,279 --> 02:08:13,079
was created for him, not by
him. You haven't even read John one.

1488
02:08:13,279 --> 02:08:16,000
John in the beginning was the word. The word was with God.

1489
02:08:16,039 --> 02:08:20,520
The Word was God, and the
world was created through him. All things

1490
02:08:20,560 --> 02:08:22,920
that came to be were created by
him and for him, and nothing came

1491
02:08:22,960 --> 02:08:26,239
to be that he didn't create.
Is what the passage is saying. It

1492
02:08:26,319 --> 02:08:31,880
goes on to say the word this
is the Hebrew concept of memory. No

1493
02:08:31,920 --> 02:08:37,079
it's not. Now, that's what
you have to say to have your heresy,

1494
02:08:37,199 --> 02:08:39,439
to get away from the fact that
the entirety of Hebrews one says that

1495
02:08:39,479 --> 02:08:43,720
the son of God created the angels. He's superior to the angels. You

1496
02:08:43,720 --> 02:08:46,119
don't think that's the force of that
passage, that's the point of it.

1497
02:08:48,199 --> 02:08:50,960
No, it was he was,
that he was, that everything was created,

1498
02:08:52,600 --> 02:08:56,039
not by him, not not with
his hands. But that's not No,

1499
02:08:56,079 --> 02:09:00,640
that's the opposite of what the passage
says. He is the creator of

1500
02:09:00,680 --> 02:09:03,319
the world. That's what John one
says. And that's why the whole argument

1501
02:09:03,399 --> 02:09:07,640
is that he's not like an angel
because he created the angels. That's the

1502
02:09:07,680 --> 02:09:11,359
whole argument of Hebrews one. I
mean, it just see it's it just

1503
02:09:11,399 --> 02:09:18,119
seems that to me seems like heresy. Honestly, the idea that there could

1504
02:09:18,159 --> 02:09:22,359
be another God. It's not another
God because you don't understand that the word

1505
02:09:22,439 --> 02:09:28,079
God itself. Do you realize the
context? When he was asked the first

1506
02:09:28,119 --> 02:09:33,680
Commandment by another rabbi, he recited
them. Have you read the Book of

1507
02:09:33,760 --> 02:09:37,159
John? Have you read the Book
of John? Have you read the Book

1508
02:09:37,199 --> 02:09:43,199
of John? Yes? Okay,
every chapter of the Book of John includes

1509
02:09:43,119 --> 02:09:48,000
either or both an argument for his
full deity or for the Trinity. In

1510
02:09:48,039 --> 02:09:52,079
fact, in multiple cases, he
says that he's equal to the Father.

1511
02:09:52,159 --> 02:09:58,680
He does the same works as the
Father and the fai Right. No,

1512
02:10:00,119 --> 02:10:05,840
well, we're done, because all
of this is about the basics of the

1513
02:10:05,840 --> 02:10:09,560
deity of Christ, which you can't
stomach because you don't want to believe it.

1514
02:10:11,439 --> 02:10:20,000
And we're going to go through Hebrews
for the sake of the audience,

1515
02:10:20,720 --> 02:10:24,640
so that you see my point here. God, who at various times and

1516
02:10:24,640 --> 02:10:28,840
in various ways spoken times past to
the fathers by the prophets, has in

1517
02:10:28,880 --> 02:10:33,119
these last days spoken to us by
his Son, whom he appointed the air

1518
02:10:33,159 --> 02:10:37,520
of all things, through whom also
he made the worlds, and being the

1519
02:10:39,319 --> 02:10:45,159
brightness of his glory. So God's
glory cannot be likened to creatures. The

1520
02:10:45,199 --> 02:10:50,960
Son is the brightness of his glory, and whom he is a point of

1521
02:10:50,960 --> 02:10:54,760
the air of allum, the express
image of his hypostasis, of his person.

1522
02:10:54,039 --> 02:10:56,720
You can't make images of God.
And yet this says that the Son

1523
02:10:56,840 --> 02:11:05,840
is the direct icon of the Father
when he purged him, when he had

1524
02:11:05,880 --> 02:11:09,119
by himself purged our sin, sat
down on the right hand of the magicy

1525
02:11:09,119 --> 02:11:13,520
on high. That's the ascension,
having become much more excellent than the angels

1526
02:11:13,760 --> 02:11:20,039
through the incarnation and ascension. For
which of the angels did God ever say,

1527
02:11:20,199 --> 02:11:24,960
you are my son today have begotten
you. This is Hebrews arguing that

1528
02:11:24,039 --> 02:11:30,600
the Father spoke spa spoken to the
Son about the eternal generation of the son.

1529
02:11:31,359 --> 02:11:33,279
I will be his father, he
will be my son. But when

1530
02:11:33,279 --> 02:11:37,680
he brings the firstborn into the world, that isn't too the created order.

1531
02:11:37,520 --> 02:11:43,000
He says, let the angels worship
the Son. You can't worship creatures.

1532
02:11:43,920 --> 02:11:48,720
And this is not talking about reverencing
a king. It's talking about worship to

1533
02:11:48,920 --> 02:11:54,399
the whole part of the passage is
that he's superior to the angels. Of

1534
02:11:54,479 --> 02:11:58,399
the angels. He says, he
creates, he makes his angel spirits,

1535
02:11:58,680 --> 02:12:01,680
and his minister's a flame before.
But to the Son, he says,

1536
02:12:01,239 --> 02:12:05,359
your throne, oh God, the
Son is God. Your throne, Oh

1537
02:12:05,399 --> 02:12:13,119
God, Son, God is forever. Therefore, God, your God,

1538
02:12:13,199 --> 02:12:16,359
has annoyed to do. That's the
Father and that's the Son. Now you're

1539
02:12:16,359 --> 02:12:20,479
gonna hung up on the word God, go listen to all the talks that

1540
02:12:20,520 --> 02:12:22,800
debates that we've done with the Muslims, where we get into the point,

1541
02:12:22,840 --> 02:12:26,039
the point that the word God can
pick out different things. It doesn't just

1542
02:12:26,159 --> 02:12:31,359
refer to the divine essence. It
doesn't just refer to a Unitarian deity.

1543
02:12:31,680 --> 02:12:33,520
It can pick out in scripture all
kinds of things. It can pick out

1544
02:12:33,560 --> 02:12:37,520
angels, it can pick out men, He can pick out demons. It

1545
02:12:37,600 --> 02:12:39,800
can pick out the Father, It
can pick out his angel, it can

1546
02:12:39,800 --> 02:12:43,800
pick out his spirit, It can
pick out the divine essence or the divine

1547
02:12:43,800 --> 02:12:46,920
operations. God is a generic term
that means that can pick out different things.

1548
02:12:48,399 --> 02:12:52,079
And so all these arguments always hinge
on Well, there's only one God,

1549
02:12:52,479 --> 02:12:56,039
so therefore there's no differentiations in God. And yet when we drill into

1550
02:12:56,079 --> 02:13:01,199
this we always find out there's multiple
passages point out there are differitions, differentiations

1551
02:13:01,239 --> 02:13:05,000
in than God. And that's because
the word God can pick out Mono,

1552
02:13:05,159 --> 02:13:11,600
theeos, monarchical theism, the person
of the Father. If God is an

1553
02:13:11,640 --> 02:13:16,760
eternal father, how is he eternally
the Father without an eternal son. This

1554
02:13:16,840 --> 02:13:22,159
is Alexander's argument that's prior to Nicea, by the way, saying Alexander's argument

1555
02:13:22,920 --> 02:13:26,840
about the Trinity is prior to Nicia. And if you go and read the

1556
02:13:26,880 --> 02:13:31,039
Church Fathers that I mentioned, which
you obviously haven't read, you would know

1557
02:13:31,079 --> 02:13:35,720
that they all teach the exact same
things that I'm talking about. And this

1558
02:13:35,840 --> 02:13:41,920
is about the son. You lay
the foundations of the of the earth.

1559
02:13:43,039 --> 02:13:46,920
To which of the angels did he
ever say, sit in my right hand

1560
02:13:48,000 --> 02:14:01,880
until I make your enemies your footstool? And then John one in the beginning

1561
02:14:01,000 --> 02:14:05,560
was the word, the logos,
the second person that God had, Jesus.

1562
02:14:05,840 --> 02:14:09,079
The word was with God, and
the word was God. He was

1563
02:14:09,119 --> 02:14:13,840
in the beginning with God. So
now does this not immediately refute this anti

1564
02:14:13,920 --> 02:14:22,399
trinitarian Nazarene error. All things were
made through him, and without him was

1565
02:14:22,479 --> 02:14:26,600
nothing that was made. So there's
no things that came to be that he

1566
02:14:26,640 --> 02:14:33,119
didn't make. It's very obvious what
this passage is saying. And he kept

1567
02:14:33,159 --> 02:14:37,600
saying, no, it's made through
It doesn't matter. Yeah, of course

1568
02:14:37,640 --> 02:14:41,159
it is made through He's the That
doesn't mean he's the world or he's he's

1569
02:14:41,159 --> 02:14:46,800
created, because the passage clearly says
anything that came to be was made by

1570
02:14:46,880 --> 02:14:52,520
him. He is the creator.
And that's why he's the one in the

1571
02:14:52,520 --> 02:14:58,960
garden of Eden walking around with Adam
and Eve. Because he says in John

1572
02:14:58,039 --> 02:15:01,319
to the Pharisees, no one has
seen the Father. At any time,

1573
02:15:01,880 --> 02:15:07,039
there is no image of the Father
except the Son, as Hebrews one says.

1574
02:15:07,760 --> 02:15:13,600
So when he argues with the Pharisees, he enrages them because he says

1575
02:15:13,760 --> 02:15:16,960
that he's equal to the Father.
He is the image and brightness and glory

1576
02:15:18,000 --> 02:15:24,640
of the Father. That's what Ezekiel
one to ten says. He is the

1577
02:15:24,680 --> 02:15:33,119
son of Man on the chariot,
the eternal son of God. I don't

1578
02:15:33,119 --> 02:15:43,439
know why this is being so slow. Why is this not pulling up Ezekiel

1579
02:15:43,439 --> 02:15:54,760
one? Now, notice that every
passage that dealt with the deity of the

1580
02:15:54,840 --> 02:16:00,199
Son or the angel of the Lord. Oh, he said, all that's

1581
02:16:00,199 --> 02:16:05,840
symbolic. Those are just passages that
symbolically referred to Yahweh. Yet when Jesus

1582
02:16:05,960 --> 02:16:11,640
comes onto the scene in the Gospels
and argues his position, he's always arguing

1583
02:16:11,680 --> 02:16:15,439
that those things are him, that
he's the one that ate with Abraham.

1584
02:16:15,920 --> 02:16:20,239
Does that mean how could he be
the one with Abraham if those are all

1585
02:16:20,319 --> 02:16:26,640
just symbolic passages that don't refer to
a second hypostasis in the Godhead. So,

1586
02:16:26,680 --> 02:16:28,920
in other words, Jesus was wrong
or was lying in all those passages

1587
02:16:28,960 --> 02:16:33,879
in John where he says that he's
the one that visited Moses. Who do

1588
02:16:33,920 --> 02:16:37,680
you think Moses went and ate with? Oh, it's just symbolic, it's

1589
02:16:37,719 --> 02:16:41,319
just symbolic. Well, then Jesus
is wrong for identifying himself as the one

1590
02:16:41,399 --> 02:16:45,559
who was with Moses face to face. Paul says in Second Corinthians that it

1591
02:16:45,600 --> 02:16:52,159
was Moses that was meeting with Jesus
face to face. So all these passages

1592
02:16:52,360 --> 02:16:56,479
are then wrong. And we just
saw that the Messiah when he comes in

1593
02:16:56,559 --> 02:17:01,120
Isaiah is worshiped by the nations.
And that guy said, no, that's

1594
02:17:01,159 --> 02:17:07,399
just reverencing. That's just reverencing.
You can't give creatures the attributes of deity.

1595
02:17:07,440 --> 02:17:11,840
That's what idolatry is that when it
says that the Age of the Lord

1596
02:17:11,920 --> 02:17:18,440
appears, not only is he called
Yahweh and worshiped, when he appears to

1597
02:17:18,479 --> 02:17:24,600
Samson and Manoah excuse me, to
Samson's parent, to Manoa, it says

1598
02:17:24,600 --> 02:17:28,319
that why do you ask my name, seeing as it is wonderful. That's

1599
02:17:28,360 --> 02:17:33,440
the same message in Isaiah when the
Son of God is called, whose name

1600
02:17:33,520 --> 02:17:39,479
is wonderful? In the Messianic passages
in Isaiah. So that guy was just

1601
02:17:39,520 --> 02:17:52,719
sort of infected with this gnostic idea
of whatever Nazarene stuff is. So if

1602
02:17:52,760 --> 02:17:58,600
you look at Judges, by the
way in Judges also it says Yahweh turned

1603
02:17:58,639 --> 02:18:03,520
his face to Gideon. That's because
it's Jesus that they're talking to Gideon,

1604
02:18:07,760 --> 02:18:15,239
because Jesus is the face of Yahweh. Why do you see my name seeing

1605
02:18:15,399 --> 02:18:18,079
it, why do you ask my
name? Seeing as it is wonderful?

1606
02:18:20,040 --> 02:18:26,520
And then Isaiah nine five to six
as a nine six and seven as well,

1607
02:18:28,319 --> 02:18:37,559
we call his name wonderful. It's
the same personage that appeared to Samson's

1608
02:18:37,559 --> 02:18:43,600
parents. It's the same messenger of
the Covenant that appears to Gideon and turns

1609
02:18:43,600 --> 02:18:50,520
his face to get in. Remember, no one sees the father at any

1610
02:18:50,559 --> 02:19:00,000
time. Then who is it that's
talking to Gideon, that appears to him,

1611
02:19:00,399 --> 02:19:05,319
Yahweh turned his face to Gideon.
By the way, that whole chapter

1612
02:19:05,559 --> 02:19:15,680
has the triad present, Yahweh is
mentioned yahways messenger who turns his face to

1613
02:19:15,719 --> 02:19:28,600
Gideon, and the spirit that comes
upon Gideon. Betwixt ten dollars. Can

1614
02:19:28,639 --> 02:19:35,639
you provide a slow boy argument on
objective morality and Christianity that's more valid than

1615
02:19:35,680 --> 02:19:41,120
other theistic foundations? I think it
just goes back to tag. So I

1616
02:19:41,120 --> 02:19:45,079
mean, the argument, if you're
arguing with like Muslims or something, it's

1617
02:19:45,120 --> 02:19:50,920
gonna shift because they're going to agree
with you that Theism gives a basis for

1618
02:19:50,000 --> 02:19:54,159
objective morality. So no, I
think you're gonna have to shift over into

1619
02:19:54,680 --> 02:20:01,520
specific issues of where Islamic thought is
wrong. And that's why mentioned Islam exactly

1620
02:20:01,399 --> 02:20:05,799
STEPF on D five dollars. My
former employer is a novs Orto Roman Catholic,

1621
02:20:05,840 --> 02:20:09,399
talks a lot about Christianity, but
I am no expert. By the

1622
02:20:09,440 --> 02:20:18,520
way, the video that we're talking
about is let's look at what do we

1623
02:20:18,760 --> 02:20:26,479
what do we know about the immediate
generation after the Apostles? Well, because

1624
02:20:26,639 --> 02:20:31,799
Jake claimed that they didn't teach the
Trinity as Muslims do, the same argument

1625
02:20:31,840 --> 02:20:39,600
would apply to the Nazarene position or
whatever that position was. Did the early

1626
02:20:39,680 --> 02:20:46,079
Church teach the Trinity? Here's this
video over here, and we deal strictly

1627
02:20:46,159 --> 02:20:52,559
with pre nice scene fathers here.
I think I only I think I've kept

1628
02:20:52,559 --> 02:20:58,440
it to like even like we didn't
even go to the three hundreds. We

1629
02:20:58,520 --> 02:21:03,959
just kept it first and second century, like two hundred three, like it

1630
02:21:05,000 --> 02:21:09,000
was all pretty nicea but not maybe
not even up to like we didn't even

1631
02:21:09,040 --> 02:21:15,719
go into Cyprian in this like,
I just kept it to anything that was,

1632
02:21:15,840 --> 02:21:18,239
you know, really early. So
here is this video. I'll give

1633
02:21:18,280 --> 02:21:20,719
it to you guys. It's called
does the Early Church Teach the Trinity?

1634
02:21:20,040 --> 02:21:22,959
And we focus here on the post
Apostolic era, is what I'm trying to

1635
02:21:24,000 --> 02:21:35,120
say. So there's that video with
inspiring philosophy. My former Novasorto friend employer

1636
02:21:35,639 --> 02:21:41,200
was talking about nine personalities by Saint
Augustine. I don't know what that means.

1637
02:21:41,719 --> 02:21:46,280
I can't find anything. Yeah,
I've never heard of that. Jackson

1638
02:21:46,360 --> 02:21:50,600
five dollars, Jay, I have
a question about fasting, just kidding.

1639
02:21:50,600 --> 02:21:52,360
Have a good one. Well,
thank you so much. Appreciate that,

1640
02:21:54,000 --> 02:21:56,159
all right. I don't think I
have much more energy. I can't.

1641
02:21:56,200 --> 02:22:00,479
I'm kind of I'm kind of spent
today. That was a pretty wild thing.

1642
02:22:00,479 --> 02:22:07,440
I appreciate the guy coming on with
the Messianic Ish Jewishish position or the

1643
02:22:07,520 --> 02:22:11,440
Hebrew roots or whatever that is.
I appreciate the other guys. I wish

1644
02:22:11,440 --> 02:22:13,120
the Muslim guy at the beginning would
have had more of an exchange and not

1645
02:22:13,280 --> 02:22:18,520
just wanted to spout out his position, but he he wasn't interested in that.

1646
02:22:18,680 --> 02:22:22,399
So anyway, guys, remember head
on over to chalk dot com.

1647
02:22:22,399 --> 02:22:26,520
He's promo co J fifty to fifty
percent off. Also get the lower Coffee.

1648
02:22:26,520 --> 02:22:28,719
You can support FDA as well through
Lower Coffee the links in the show

1649
02:22:28,760 --> 02:22:37,239
description. That's a based coffee company, good solid products. Also, get

1650
02:22:37,239 --> 02:22:41,520
tickets to our live event in Vegas. We'll be with Jamie Kennedy and our

1651
02:22:41,559 --> 02:22:48,040
bros buddies. Isaac Wishott will be
there as well. It's gonna be a

1652
02:22:48,040 --> 02:22:50,959
lot of fun. Go get your
tickets. There's comedy, there's all of

1653
02:22:52,000 --> 02:22:56,440
it. It's all there. It's
a corner copia of fun. You can't

1654
02:22:56,440 --> 02:22:56,520
pass this up. Come on,