WEBVTT

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Biff Clobo Productions as proud to bring
you Beyond Bigfoot and Beyond with Clifford Barrickman

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and James Bobo Faye. Painstakingly curated
for our platinum members, these exquisite episodes

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provide never before heard oral delights,
constituting the most comprehensive collection of sounds ever

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to honor the triumphs of these men, from the deficatory woes of Faye to

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Barrickman's various treatises on the ills of
modern sasquattery. This new series is and

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must have for the Clobo completest.
Subscribe now for only five dollars a month

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at the link in the show notes
listed here and earn your rightful place among

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the intellectual elites with Bobo. These
guys are your favorites, So like Shay,

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subscribe and read it says watching.
Please keep it squatchy and now your

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hosts, Cliff Berkman and James Bobo
Fay. Hello, Cliff, Hello Bobo.

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How are you doing? Man?
All righty? How are you?

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I'm doing all right? Did you
get your computer situation all set up?

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Rowdy came by. Rowdy from Bluff
Peak Project just came by and mind me

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up with his borrowing that for the
night, and then I'm gonna hopefully get

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one ordered this week. Excellent.
We all get by it with a little

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help from our friends, as they
say, right, yeah, excellent.

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Anything else going on? Do you
want to share? No? Okay,

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cool? All right, that's good
enough for me. Because we have a

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fantastic guest this weekend, it might
be a good idea just to jump in.

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Our time is a little bit limited, so we want to get into

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this as quickly as possible. Our
guest today is a friend of mine.

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I've known him for years now.
I looked towards him for information. He

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has served as somewhat of a cultural
Let's see what should I say as cultural

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layis on? I guess for the
NABC. Um, he helped me a

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lot with my my Indigenous knowledge section
of the North American big Foot Center.

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I met him on expedition. He
is a Skokomish Indigenous person, the Sacomish

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tribal member. He also has a
PhD in education. Um. I think

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he lives down in central Oregon right
about now. But here it is man

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a good friend of mine. I
think, Bubba, you think you know

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him as well? Kevin Burgo,
doctor Kevin Burgo. So Kevin, thank

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you so much for coming on man. Such an honor and so odd to

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hear anybody actually employ doctor in front
of my name. I don't get that

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much. I've heard your name,
but we have we hung out. I

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don't know if I've actually met you
in person. I was it a couple

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of the conferences, and I just
didn't have an opportunity to go up to

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you because everybody wants to go up
to you, and so I kind of

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hang in the back and fly under
the radar as much as I can.

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Okay, Yeah, because you're one
of those names I've heard, I'm like,

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God, have I met Because you
know, when you meet so many

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people, especially at those things,
you never sure that I talk to that

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person to say their name a lot. I'm here today to talk a little

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bit more about not only the American
Indian Native American oral history approaches to all

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things big Foot, but then also
there is a host of other things that

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I'm kind of privy too that I
don't think a lot of other people are.

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And so I'm kind of one of
these odd balls that is in between

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the cultural aspects of the phenomenon,
and then like the intellectual academic communities,

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and so I've had toes in both. I'm not really part of either,

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so that has within itself its own
certain tensions. Well, but but you

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are, you are definitely in touch
with both. I mean, I don't

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know if you feel like you're not
involved in either of those groups. But

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you you literally grew up on this
Kacommish reservation, didn't you. Yes,

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And so as I was preparing to
participate here today, I was having to

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go through like an inventory of where
I come in on this whole topic.

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And so for me, it goes
almost all the way back to the beginning.

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So I was brought up in the
Miller household, which anybody in the

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Northwest community, in the indigenous community, they know who who they are.

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So I got a lot of cultural
exposure to Siyatko as a kid, and

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so to me, I grew up
in a household into which there was like

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an instant immersion. And so it's
been an arc to go beyond like having

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that as the basis of my inculcation
into having my own experiences and then coming

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across other people's experiences and then having
to come up with some kind of plan.

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Okay, how do I take an
individual account and turn that into some

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kind of a product that can I
think help answer one of three primary questions,

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and that is where they were,
where they are, and where they're

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going to be In other words,
the Sasquatches themselves, like trying to locate

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them. Yeah. Yeah, And
so having had a lot of cultural exposures,

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I think it provided me with like
a mindset that I think is different

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than a lot of other people's in
that Bigfoot was one of many beings in

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this pantheon of culture which my people
talked openly about. And so along that

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kind of evolution, there were things
that I got off of the oral history

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which prepared my eyes and ears for
what I encountered both in my teenage years

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and then also in my adult years
up to having experiences last April. Yes,

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because you've actually you've actually seen these
things too, Yes, yeah,

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with your own eyes, and you
continue to do research on your own even

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though you're not living the reservation any
like at the moments, you have family

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and friends, Aaron went up,
But you also do your own research in

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Central Oregon as well. Yes,
So what I'm trying to do is provide

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access I think that otherwise is not
openly talked about with people that aren't a

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part of the tribe, and then
take that and employ that in the places

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that I occur only inhabit, but
I go all over the place if there's

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an encounter. But but again,
I'm trying to develop up these tools in

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order to move beyond where the animal
or the being was and where it is

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and where it could be. And
so along that way, I've had to

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employ a lot of the things that
I had picked up in my academics and

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then also in my military experiences.
And so there's kind of a convergence here.

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And I'm gonna halt right there,
because, like I want to tell

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the audience, there's all these like
overlaps that I could go off on tangents

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for hours, if not way more. And so I'm just going to try

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to approach this as a big bowl
of spaghetti and I just want to pull

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out I want to tease out a
couple of the noodles. As I know

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this is an entertainment podcast as much
it is an educational podcast, I think

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I would want to talk about like
what kind of arc it was to be

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a believer and then being a knower
that tension of coming from a cultural background

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where it's belief and experience, and
then an academic or intellectual approach'd that's kind

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of thinking about having those two tensions
pulling at each other. There must be

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a way, there must be some
middle ground in there, because for exam,

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I mean bears free, I mean, I'm sure, I mean correct

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if I'm wrong, I have to
assume Scacomish people have stories about bears and

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coyotes and all the other animals.
But is the tension that we see in

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the Bigfoot realm present in those spheres
as well? The primary tension that I

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come across when I'm interacting with tribal
people is they first want to know what

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are you gonna do? If you
see one? Are you gonna kill it?

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And it's I have to tell him, no, No, I don't

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want to kill this thing. If
anything, I want to protect it.

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And so I think I can only
do that through a certain kind of acknowledgement.

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But I also have to get to
this point of developing up a air

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quotes proof and so what are the
different ways to prove that this this being

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is present? And so the primary
tension I mean even even if we want

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to go back a little bit more
and I'll pull out my two dollar PhD.

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Words is it's between ontology and epistemology. Ontology being what is the world

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created out of? And so for
the Western academics it's things are objects.

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On the other hand, kind of
the cultural aspect is all about experience,

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and so their ontology is the world
is primarily made out of breath, and

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that breath is between different animals and
beings and trees and plants and everything.

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And it hints at this idea of
the objectivists are above in this position of

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dominion over all the all the plants
and the animals, and they just count

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things and taxonify things. On the
other side, the like the American Indian

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community is much more horizontal, and
that animals have an equality to them,

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and that there's an interdependence between the
bear and the bobcat and bigfoot and owls

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and everything. That's a nice way
to put it. I'm not sure I've

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I've heard it put as a horizontal
relationship versus a vertical one, but that

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does make sense. And in that
there are I think different ways to know

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and so as again, this primary
tension I have with intellectuals and academics is

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that they want to count it,
kill it, taxonify it, put it

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in it's where it's place in comparison
to everything else. And on the other

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side, the culturalists are just trying
to live with it. I'm at the

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point where as a person who does
not who's had experiences, there are things

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I can't explain. There's other things
I can't explain, both culturally and rationally,

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and so I'm in this constant tension
between what counts and to whom.

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Well let's talk about that though.
Let's let's talk about that. Let's maybe,

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um, can you go back to
one of your your earliest experiences with

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one of these things and tell us
what happened and what you what you experience,

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What did you see something or is
it just sounds or was it just

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stories or because I know you've had
visual encounters and I'm sure audience would love

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to hear about those things or every
loved stories. So yeah, yeah,

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if I can go back to when
I was probably three years old, I

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remember we were at somebody's house and
there was the episode of the six Million

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Dollar Man came on and I had
Andre the giant, and I was like,

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wow, cool. And then I
started hearing other people, like adults,

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go oh, yeah, I had
this encounter with something like that.

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Oh I had this one here,
Oh I had this one here. And

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then and then I heard my mother
talk about her experience at a cabin out

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in Matlock, and so that was
like, wow, you know what,

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there's this, this actual animal out
there. But it wasn't until I didn't

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really get a good education on what
this is until my great uncle would come

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down to the house and he would
come around dinner time and he would start

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to talk, and he sometimes he
would talk all night long, and he

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would tell tale after tale after tale
of of our our house, our our

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clan, our people. And in
those tales, he would talk about having

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these interactions with big foots, and
so I remember thinking like, well,

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he's had interactions too, and then
he would talk about, oh yeah,

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I had one here and it was
underneath the chicken coop, you know.

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And it was at that point that
I began to ask him, you know,

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could you tell me more? Could
you tell me more? And so

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he had tales going back to pre
contact where one of our great great ants

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or whatever they had actually captured a
small one up in the San Juan Islands

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and took it to the longhouse and
kept it as a pet until it was

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about a teenager, and then it
went and ran off and had kids and

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it would come back by. Do
you happen to know how they managed to

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do that? Like, how would
you capture a task it was a smaller

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being. I was told it was
on one of the beaches. It got

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caught at like high tide and they
just pulled up in it with a canoe

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And I don't know how they put
it in the in the canoe, but

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that's what I was told, And
so I was like, oh wow,

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cool, you know, hey man, we owned one. It wasn't treated

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as an animal, it was treated
as a person. And I think that's

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one of the tensions I have with
the current, like academics who come at

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this and they say, well,
it's a gigant epithecus, and so everything

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a culturally I've heard is like,
no, it's not. It isn't it's

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a person. And I was going
through that today, like what what do

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they mean person? In a lot
of the tales they talk about this animal

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as being a cannibal. So what
does a cannibal mean in this context,

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Well, cannibal means it eats other
people. So it was embraced as a

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person, as a different tribe.
They weren't as technologically advanced, but they

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were a people. And so there's
like the two primary camps out there at

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present, and it's the gigant Epithecus
or even the parenthesis group, or it's

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this being from another dimension Da da
da da da. And so I'm not

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a part of either of those.
And so when I hear those and I

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hear people, you know, they
talk about, well, this is exactly

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what it is. I'm always wanting
to be like, yeah, okay,

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well I guess if you want to
go that way, and go that way,

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stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond
with Cliff and Bobo. Will be

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right back after these messages. You
mentioned the perhaps paranormal versus flesh and blood.

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See, I think we're perhaps the
two categories that you mentioned just recently.

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Yeah, yeah, and and somebody
recently flippantly kind of said, oh,

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you're an aper, so blah blah
blah, you wouldn't even listen to

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this or whatever, and then and
then and then I don't know, then

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that same person complained about somebody one
of their friends being categorized as woo or

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whatever, and and well, categories
they just still seem to fit a lot

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of times, you know, definitely
not with what I'm coming across. Yeah,

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it just isn't you know. I'm
it's for me at least, and

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maybe Bobo can chime in or something. But to me, it's tiring to

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be this or that. It seems
that that's so much of a limit of

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the human perspective on things and really
has almost nothing to do with the actual

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animals or creatures or whatever they are
themselves. It's really just like I feel

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more comfortable to know that it's this
or that, and it can't be anywhere

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in between. It can't be anything
else but that, because I'm uncomfortable with

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that. But I'm not uncomfortable with
them being this or of that, or

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as long as I can that makes
sense to me, and I can have

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my little teddy bear and grab onto
and that would just make me feel better.

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Pete. I think humans are just
programmed or perhaps conditioned to desire resolution

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so strongly they have to have it
fit nicely in these compartments. They're not

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this or that man. They're sasquatches, and that alone deserves our respect in

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my opinion, sasquatches, like why
can't it be this or that? Oh

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no, they're not apes or that
or humans. They're not either one of

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those. They're sasquatches, and that
alone is worthy of our respect. How's

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your opinion changed, Kevin, of
these like because you're introduced the concepts when

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you moved in with them, and
then how did it change as you saw

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them and heard them observe them over
the years, just in reinforce or did

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you kind of come to your own
conclusions several of the seato Having had some

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experiences in places where I was told
that, like other people in our house

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had had experiences, I tended to
gravitate towards more of the cultural explanations.

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It's only because there has been a
couple of experiences that I have had that

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would be almost inherently subjective, and
that I can think about half dozen were

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being in the presence of these creatures. There is an experience to me of

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terror, like real terror. And
as much as I want them to be

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like a Harry and Hendersons and they
come out of the woods and they put

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me on their backs and they take
me around, and that I've also been

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told they are evil, they kill, they kidnap kids. There is something

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innate when when you come across these
these creatures up close that is terrifying.

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They are definitely an animal. But
then I also have to keep in like

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my back pocket that I've been told
how to handle an encounter. I've been

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told things to do and to not
to do, primarily don't try to make

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eye contact because they can paralyze you. I've had to come to the point

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of I'm not sure what it is. If it's an animal, if it's

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a like a hominin, I think, I mean obviously that, but this

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thing seems to be imbued with certain
powers such as hypnotism, such as invisibility

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that kind of have a line with
a couple of the experiences that I've had,

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and it's it puts it in this
in this place where I want to

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say it's an animal, but then
there's something else there and I don't know

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how to explain it. And I
think that's why why I'm so interested into

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this whole trying to get my arms
around what are the eyewitness accounts? How

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many other people have had these experiences
because I think these experiences might actually be

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clues to have other experiences. Well, so you followed these things around,

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and I trust you as a tracker. I've been in the woods with you.

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I know how good you are in
the woods. Like I said,

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we've been friends for a long time. We met on expedition. But the

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face to face encounter where you actually
put eyes on one of these things tell

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us about that because people love to
hear those sorts of stories, and from

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your perspective, it might be a
value. Okay. So I was I

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was on the way home to go
to GIS project at the Tribe. I

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was driving between There's a place in
Wyoming which is a little America. It's

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like this place to pull over.
They have hotel rooms and everything. But

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I was, I was wanting to
get home, and so I cut through

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a highway between there and Pocatello,
Idaho. And so it was twilight.

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It was in the end of June
or early July. And I'm in the

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car. My buddies in the car
too, who's an anthropologist. He and

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I are talking about X and Y, and I'm almost to Pocatello and there

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is a black object and it's in
the ditch, and I think it's a

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person. And we're driving down the
highway and I'm getting probably within like like

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a half a mile of it kind
of he was blabbing onto me, and

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I just went quiet because I in
my head, I'm thinking, like,

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what kind of an asshole? Hitchhikes
and all black and we're coming up on

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it, and it's hit me.
I'm about maybe about a quarter mile way,

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and I'm thinking, this is a
big dude, and then it hit

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me he's not on the road,
he's in the ditch. And then it

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hits me he's as big as if
you put my S ten on its end.

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And as I'm pulling into this thing, and I can't believe it,

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I'm like, I'm like, what
is this? And so the anthropolois of

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the car he turns, he goes
what the hell? And as we're pulling

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up to it, it pivoted.
It put down an arm and pushed off

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and there was like an incline.
It must have been in about fifty degree

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incline to the left. I watched
that thing push off with one arm.

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It hopped through the air maybe twenty
foot a hop it did It did a

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couple hops. It was like bing
bing, bing, and gone kangaroo,

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like two feet could I thought it
was only on the one. It was

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just hopping, incredible and it was
so quick and I got out of the

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hit hit the brakes. I had
a rifle in the back. I pulled

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that out and by the time I
got my hands on it, that thing

270
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is already up over the edge and
gone. And so he gets out of

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the car. He's like, what
was that. I go, I think

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we both know what that is.
And we didn't hear anything. And then,

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um, I remember going to Pocatello
and we had to pull over to

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get gas and there was like like
a police officer and it was like a

275
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part of an am PM and and
so I go in there and like I

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paid for everything, and I go
over to the one of the police officers

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and I go, sir, I
don't know, I don't know how to

278
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tell you this, but I think
we just had an encounter about ten miles

279
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away. And the weirdest thing was
he never said a word. He didn't

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ask me for my name, he
didn't ask me if I've had anything to

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00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:34.599
drink. He said he was just
his I it was it was all in

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his eyebrows of like huh, and
I was like, so you might want

283
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to get somebody out there. I
got in the car and then came home

284
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and it wasn't until I saw I
think it was like a USA today.

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About ten days after that, where
I think eight other people it had some

286
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encounter in that same place. I
can tell you I was not prepared for

287
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how powerful that thing was and how
quick it was. It was amazing.

288
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I don't know. I'm glad I
had that encounter, but everything to date

289
00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:17.799
has been trying to have another one
of those. And I come close a

290
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couple of times, but it's like, I don't know. It's this odd

291
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thing of where that creature terrifies me, but I am drawn to it like

292
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nothing else. It's all I do
is try to improve my odds of having

293
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like another encounter, an eyeball to
eyeball encounter. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot

294
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:51.240
and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo will
be right back after these messages. The

295
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only other encounter that I think is
on par with that is one that I

296
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had with my dad in our property
that's contiguous along the reservationum he and I

297
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:10.319
were out, I must I was
a teenager and he wanted to get some

298
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dirt to put in one of his
I don't know. It was like herb

299
00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:21.160
garden or something. And so he
and I are back there and digging and

300
00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:27.920
talking, and out of the blue, this yell comes across the pasture.

301
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Weirdest thing I've ever heard. It
was the highest high and the lowest of

302
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:40.119
the low I've ever heard. It
went on for I would say, like

303
00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:45.039
a minute, NonStop, and I've
heard cougars, I've heard bears, I've

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heard coons, I've heard everything in
between. Holong was the duration of the

305
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high, like ten seconds of high. Ten seconds was high and low.

306
00:26:53.720 --> 00:27:00.440
At the same time. I was
sitting there trying to contemplate, like what

307
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is coming at us? The next
thing I hear, my dad hops in

308
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the truck and takes off, and
here I am all alone wonderon, like,

309
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oh God, something's coming. And
so I have to turn and sprint

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and I hop in that car and
I started slugging him in the arm,

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and I'm like, why did you
leave me to die like that? I

312
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:26.200
was really pissed off at him.
But the odd thing of all that,

313
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too, was that he and I
had that account he was pale, and

314
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:34.400
he was he was a big guy. He didn't know what it was.

315
00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:41.480
We never talked about it ever again, he not even when he got older.

316
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:45.359
We never spoke of it again ever. And I always thought like why,

317
00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:51.000
like what was going on? And
the only thing I can put it

318
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in some kind of a context is
that he had to go out into the

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woods again. He had to compartmentalize
whatever that was. The Skekomash reads itself.

320
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It has mountains, it has flatlands
covered with woods, and it has

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a huge swamp area. This intertitle
zone that just must be a cornucopia of

322
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:15.480
everything these things would want to eat. It's by Shelton, right down by

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you guys, lucky doctors. You
know, yes, yeah, okay,

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I would say, don't eat there. It's not good. We don't have

325
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a lot of time left. And
so there is a quick thing that I

326
00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:32.319
think, if I'm going to get
anybody to help me with this, is

327
00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:41.119
it this entire effort we have a
problem, and that we are good at

328
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:45.480
data collection, not so good at
the analysis portion. And it's that analysis

329
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:52.039
that's going to be the key to
actually developing up the models that can provide

330
00:28:52.119 --> 00:28:56.519
us the power to know where to
go, when to goo, what kind

331
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of activities? No pun intended with
that wind to go right? Oh yeah

332
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:04.359
yeah yeah yeah yeah pun intended.
And I know this isn't gonna make me

333
00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:12.359
like well loved, but I am
sick and tired of these groups collecting information

334
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:18.759
and not doing anything with it.
That information, if it's not put into

335
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:23.039
a pool, is worthless it.
I mean, it's neat in terms of

336
00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:27.400
you have a collection, but a
collection just to have a collection is not

337
00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:33.079
the point. It's not going to
help any of us. And so I'm

338
00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:38.319
calling for the big push of like
we need to organize up the accounts into

339
00:29:38.440 --> 00:29:45.319
some organization or some it design a
protocol. The one that I'm pushing is

340
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:52.039
called an API, an Application programming
interface, and what that does is it

341
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:57.640
takes information and it organize it into
keyword pairings. And so it's these keyword

342
00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:04.039
pairings that that allow me to do
these analysis because otherwise what I'll get from

343
00:30:04.039 --> 00:30:11.960
people is like an MS doc X
deal and everything's all smashed in there,

344
00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:17.000
and I gotta pulls out, like
the time, parse out the day,

345
00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:22.319
parse out like what was the eyewitness
account? And it's really taking me forever

346
00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:29.200
to do that this whole thing can
be automated quite quickly if we could just

347
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:34.799
get the people who hold this to
organize it up for the people that are

348
00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:37.440
going to do the analysis on the
other end, and these people on the

349
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:42.799
other end, maybe these like the
open aies. We've got these tools that

350
00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:49.039
are potentially coming out that are gonna
provide us instant, instant answers of the

351
00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:55.319
best place to go, the best
times to go activities, and so we

352
00:30:55.359 --> 00:31:00.839
need to do what we can as
a project to get that more aligned to

353
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:07.400
the type of coding and databases that
need to be built. If you want

354
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:11.000
to know what to do or you
got questions, well, if you have

355
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:17.960
any hate mail, that's um to
doctor Kevin care of Cliff and Bobo and

356
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:22.079
they'll take care of it. We'll
get lost with all mail. Yeah,

357
00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:27.160
I'll hate smells the same at the
end of the day. Right, Well,

358
00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:30.279
I mean, like let's talk about
baby steps, so along that line.

359
00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:33.920
I struggle with myself because I was
thinking about this this past week and

360
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:37.759
I've given you full access to my
citing report database, which I need to

361
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:40.799
talk to you about too, because
I lost some of those reports and I

362
00:31:40.839 --> 00:31:44.559
bet you have copies of them because
I had website problems last year and a

363
00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:47.079
lot of these things disappeared, so
I have to get those from me again.

364
00:31:47.319 --> 00:31:48.680
But yeah, there I am.
I figured, Okay, what is

365
00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:53.720
my role here from a larger perspective, what is Cliff's position here? Like?

366
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:59.119
What am I doing besides just enjoying
myself with the change right conduit?

367
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:02.559
Yeah, I'm an educator, I'm
a conduit, but I also am out

368
00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:07.279
there kind of gathering data. And
I was sick. I was literally so

369
00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:08.599
funny that you bring this up,
Kevin, because I was literally thinking this

370
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:14.039
week that, beyond some pretty obvious
patterns like you know, these footprints,

371
00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:16.000
I've been casting in the same twenty
yard area over a period of two or

372
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:20.200
three years, a lot of the
obvious pattern or a lot of the other

373
00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:22.519
patterns that are more subtle, I
don't know how to access. And that's

374
00:32:22.519 --> 00:32:27.279
why I was asking. I'm not
necessarily a civilian on that level as far

375
00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:29.640
as the big foot thing goes,
But at the same time, I'd like

376
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:32.599
to up my game. I'm always
interested in upping my game. I think

377
00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:38.079
all of this should and that includes
me. So where does the how does

378
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:43.720
one begin to go about the data? Analysis. If I have thirteen hundred

379
00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:49.480
reports sitting on my car drive,
which I do, okay, So primarily

380
00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:57.720
how I approach things is through qualitative
inquiry approach called grounded theory. And what

381
00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:04.480
that is is it's a way to
take a bunch of open ended interviews or

382
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:10.599
like accounts, and you go through
a portion of them and apply different types

383
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:19.119
of coding. So is this an
objective event or was this more of a

384
00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:25.119
like an experiential deal? Out of
that, like, what I do is

385
00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:34.319
I take a small portion of everything
I got, I create individual codes off

386
00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:37.599
of each of those. Then I
take that and I apply that to like

387
00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:45.559
everything else, and so out of
that, depending on how how the information

388
00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:52.960
is collected and put into print and
then presented, there are different I guess

389
00:33:53.279 --> 00:34:02.240
presentations of an experience. And so
all I'm trying to do at present is

390
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:10.360
just take like, the amount of
information is actually pretty big in terms of

391
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:15.280
what I would have to do to
code, and so I'm just trying to

392
00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:20.599
build the codes that I will apply
to everything else. And when you say

393
00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:22.239
codes, do you mean like computer
codes? Are you talking about like some

394
00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:30.559
sort of qualitative weight measurements? Well, they could be qualitative. They could

395
00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:34.760
be quantitative. It's hard to know
what parts and pieces, if any,

396
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:37.519
you're going to come out of that, but that's generally a good way to

397
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:45.199
begin when you're dealing with like an
eyewitness pool. You know. One of

398
00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:52.239
the things I struggle with as well
is because I've taken a sasquatch database survey

399
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:58.440
myself back in the day for another
PhD. Actually that she developed this thing,

400
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:00.920
and it was many MIDI pages long. It took me quite a long

401
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:02.760
time to do it, and I
realize that, like the vast majority of

402
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:06.840
bigfoot witnesses are not going to be
filling one of these things out. And

403
00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:09.960
whereas the sighting report form I have
on Cliff Barrickman dot com right now where

404
00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:14.280
I get most of my reports submitted
to me, and even if you click

405
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:16.599
a report of sighting on the NBC
website, it brings you to that web

406
00:35:16.599 --> 00:35:21.199
page I want on my data in
one place. It's fairly user friendly,

407
00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:24.840
but I also know I'm missing information
and missing little tidbits that could turn up

408
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:29.960
something interesting in the future. But
that's just the balance I had to come

409
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:36.280
come to, based on user experience
from people who perhaps aren't comfortable writing or

410
00:35:36.920 --> 00:35:38.719
whatever else. You know, they're
not they're they're they're they're embarrassed about their

411
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:44.800
spelling or their grammar, their punctuation. Maybe they lack like the grammar education,

412
00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:46.920
um, you know, and they
don't want to type out this stuff.

413
00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:51.000
You know, they don't want to
write a five paragraph essay, which

414
00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:58.360
is why I would really encourage you
to um increase that to like an either

415
00:35:58.599 --> 00:36:05.239
or or maybe like a both and
and have them explain it in their own

416
00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:09.519
words. And that could be done
through like an iPhone, and then it

417
00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:15.159
would be up to someone like me
to like pull out apart. Well,

418
00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:16.320
you know, Kevin, I think
you've given us a lot to think about,

419
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:20.400
especially big footers in general, who
are out there. Maybe they're at

420
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:22.760
part of a group, a larger
group, Maybe they have their own thing

421
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:25.719
going. Maybe you're quietly gathering data
on the sidelines, like in the shadows

422
00:36:25.719 --> 00:36:30.079
and just watching watching the circus pass
you by. Give that data up.

423
00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:32.719
Yeah, yeah, whatever that case
is, I think you've given us all

424
00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:36.840
something to think about. And yeah, if you don't mind, we'd like

425
00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:38.199
to have you stick around for the
member section. Maybe we can get into

426
00:36:38.239 --> 00:36:40.960
the weeds a little bit more about
what that looks like or how it works

427
00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:45.880
or something we'd really appreciate it.
But Kevin, you've been my friend for

428
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:47.599
a long time and you're one of
the very few people that has ever gotten

429
00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:51.719
access to my entire database, and
I can't wait to see what you come

430
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:55.320
what you come to from that data
and whatever other in data that you've been

431
00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:59.199
gathering over the years. And I
want to thank you for not only your

432
00:36:59.199 --> 00:37:00.719
time today but also your friendship.
I do value it, so think oh

433
00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:07.599
well, absolutely no. I was
extremely happy to be asked to be a

434
00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:12.480
part of this. It's um ben, I think I wanted to do.

435
00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:16.039
I just was holding off until I
was getting a little closer in being able

436
00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:22.840
to provide some tools and possibly some
explanations, and so you gave me that

437
00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:27.119
opportunity today and I appreciate it.
Yeah, thanks for coming on, Kevin.

438
00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:29.639
I've heard a lot of abuce,
so it was great to finally get

439
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:32.119
to talk to you and here what
you're up to. That's uh, we

440
00:37:32.199 --> 00:37:35.719
got to have you back on and
you got some more results in the future.

441
00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:37.360
Yeah, all right, Bob,
take us out of here. Man,

442
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:39.840
let's go to the member section.
We're gonna have some more with Kevin,

443
00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:45.840
right now on the Patreon section of
Beyond Bigfoot and Beyond, So sign

444
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:50.320
up joints like five bucks a month
and you get an extra episode a week,

445
00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:52.119
and we're gonna get you that right
now. So thanks for listening to

446
00:37:52.199 --> 00:38:01.639
y'all and keep it squatchy. Thanks
for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot

447
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:06.159
and Beyond. If you liked what
you heard, please rate and review us

448
00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:09.679
on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and
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449
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:15.880
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450
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:20.920
us on Twitter at Bigfoot Beyond That's
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451
00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:24.280
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