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Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado. Hey guys, 11 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,560 this is Ian Half from the Chicago Cubs. I'm excited to announce that 12 00:00:45,679 --> 00:00:51,640 my show The Compound is now part of the Blue Wire Podcast Network. Join 13 00:00:51,719 --> 00:00:55,840 me and my teammates Dakota Mecas and Zach Short. This week we welcome Cubs 14 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:00,119 First Basement World Series champion Anthony Rizzo to The Compound. Check it out, 15 00:01:00,479 --> 00:01:19,359 Subscribe The Compound on the Blue Wire Podcast Network. What is up Hardwood Knocks 16 00:01:19,439 --> 00:01:23,280 listeners, I am Dan fa Valley coming at you as we continue our decade 17 00:01:23,439 --> 00:01:29,439 ranking series with Adam frommel He is an editor for Bleacher Report as well as 18 00:01:29,439 --> 00:01:33,519 the founder and editor in chief of NBA Math. Follow him on Twitter. 19 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:38,879 At zero nine, we are up to the top ten players for the Los 20 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:44,719 Angeles Lakers of this past decade. Spoiler alert, This franchise was maddening to 21 00:01:44,879 --> 00:01:49,000 rank in this context. You will find out soon enough, and we start 22 00:01:49,079 --> 00:01:52,159 things off with a two way tie in ninth place. There's no tenth place. 23 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,920 That's how you get the Lakers started off. That's that's just the best 24 00:01:55,959 --> 00:01:57,640 way to do it. It was that confusing of a process. Before we 25 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,079 get into this, though, just to remind to continue rating, reviewing, 26 00:02:01,079 --> 00:02:06,040 and subscribing to us on iTunes or wherever else you get your podcast. That 27 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,479 subscription link is constantly being tweeted out with the promotional links for each episode. 28 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:15,199 We appreciate everyone who is downloading our episodes. If you leave ratings and reviews, 29 00:02:15,199 --> 00:02:17,680 that helps us a great deal. If you have done all of those 30 00:02:17,719 --> 00:02:22,560 things, please word of mouth, retweet our promos, tell your friends, 31 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,879 family members, acquaintances, random people on Twitter. Just throw links in their 32 00:02:24,879 --> 00:02:29,960 mentions. They will thank you later. You can follow us on Twitter at 33 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:35,039 hardwood Knox. Also follow our YouTube channel where basically every podcast gets posted on 34 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,639 there, including this decade player ranking series. We have a nice little nifty 35 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,199 playlist built of it. Just go to YouTube dot com search hard one Knox. 36 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,960 We will come up last, but certainly not least. Just want to 37 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:50,120 shout out our sponsor for this week bet online. You will be hearing from 38 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:55,479 them in just a moment. Adam, how are you doing. I'm good 39 00:02:55,560 --> 00:03:00,919 and confused because, as you mentioned, this was a Madden franchise to try 40 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:05,280 to figure out the top ten four from twenty ten to eleven through the present. 41 00:03:05,719 --> 00:03:10,560 We saw forty different players received votes in the fan ballot, ranging from 42 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:15,360 all sorts of role players to the hopeful inclusion I assume of Jimmy Butler, 43 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:20,159 who has, to the best of my knowledge, never played for the Lakers. 44 00:03:20,199 --> 00:03:24,560 I'm pretty sure that's correct. Nothing made sense here. It was. 45 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,159 It was weird from start to finish, which I think is kind of the 46 00:03:28,199 --> 00:03:31,960 testament to how the Lakers have fared over the last decade, which was coming 47 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:39,599 out of those Kobe Powkasol title years into the strange first Dwight Howard era into 48 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:44,400 some of the worst teams in franchise history, and now they're starting to surge 49 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,360 back toward the top again. In Lebron James's second year with the franchise, 50 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,159 none of it made sense once more, And I guess that's as good a 51 00:03:53,159 --> 00:03:57,599 time as ever to segue into the actual top ten, which was determined by 52 00:03:57,599 --> 00:04:00,479 the fan vote, by my top ten, and by Dan's top ten. 53 00:04:00,199 --> 00:04:04,159 We actually had four players appear in top tens who didn't make the composite top 54 00:04:04,199 --> 00:04:08,599 ten, and those were Andrew Bynum, who was sixth place in the fan 55 00:04:08,759 --> 00:04:14,400 vote and did not appear for either myself or Dan. Then we had Dwight 56 00:04:14,479 --> 00:04:18,480 Howard and Jordan Clarkson tied just below him. Dan had Jordan Clarkson at eighth, 57 00:04:18,519 --> 00:04:20,480 no one else had him. I had Dwight at eighth, no one 58 00:04:20,519 --> 00:04:24,720 else had him. And then we had Lonzo Ball, who was tenth place 59 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:29,120 for Dan but did not make either of the other rankings. So as you 60 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,560 can probably tell from those names, like, it's already getting weird. Because 61 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,439 Andrew Bynum, in particular, I think we can single out as a guy 62 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:40,639 who from a pure talent standpoint, and from a pure production standpoint, probably 63 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:46,199 belongs in the top ten. But his tenure with the Lakers wasn't always successful. 64 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,720 It had one of the more infamously bad moments when he closedlined JJ brea 65 00:04:49,759 --> 00:04:55,000 and frustration to close out a playoff series, and I totally get why we 66 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,920 don't have him, even though the fans do, and I think like he 67 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,040 alone kind of un score is just how weird this edition is going to be. 68 00:05:02,959 --> 00:05:06,720 So for me, it was if I wasn't going to put Anthony Davis 69 00:05:06,759 --> 00:05:10,680 in on my list, which Boiler Alert I did not. This is his 70 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:15,279 first season there. I won't say it made me. It made the unilateral 71 00:05:15,319 --> 00:05:19,040 decision to leave off a Bynum and an Odem because of their sample size, 72 00:05:19,079 --> 00:05:21,920 but it made me feel a little bit more empowered to do so, just 73 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,560 because Bynum had one really good year of the two years he spent there. 74 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,759 Lamar Odom's year with the Lakers was spectacular, but there's you know, waiting 75 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,839 theirness, which is why I was surprised that Clarkson ultimately didn't make a list. 76 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,160 Third in minutes, I think it is for the Lakers over this decade, 77 00:05:35,199 --> 00:05:39,439 So that was a little bit surprising to me, But I think if 78 00:05:39,439 --> 00:05:42,279 you were going on the flip side, which would make sense from the fans 79 00:05:42,319 --> 00:05:45,600 perspective, if you were going to include Anthony Davis, I think then you 80 00:05:45,639 --> 00:05:48,879 do need to include buying him and odom if that makes any sense. It 81 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:54,040 does. But at the same time, like Clarkson is third in minutes played 82 00:05:54,079 --> 00:05:58,120 but only seven six hundred and eighty one over the last decade. I mean, 83 00:05:58,439 --> 00:06:02,839 Kobe is still the runaway first place and minutes played even though he retired 84 00:06:02,879 --> 00:06:09,120 after the twenty fifteen sixteen season. Like this, there hasn't been any sort 85 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:15,519 of continuity with this organization throughout the last decade. You know, De'angelo Russell 86 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,040 thirteenth and minutes played despite only playing two seasons there, brandon Ingram only three 87 00:06:19,079 --> 00:06:21,480 seasons and he's up in eighth. So for me, it was like, 88 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:28,079 as as much attention as we've paid to the bareness factor for other organizations, 89 00:06:28,759 --> 00:06:32,040 it was harder for me to use that as a starting point for this one, 90 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,360 just because there's been so much turmoil. Yeah, I think that's a 91 00:06:36,399 --> 00:06:39,560 fair way to approach it. Look, I had Lonzo Ball making my cut 92 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:43,959 and he's twenty first in minutes. I think that he was underrated defensively while 93 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,040 he was with the Lakers, and people focus so much on his three point 94 00:06:46,079 --> 00:06:50,199 percentage, but just one of the best passers in the game, And had 95 00:06:50,199 --> 00:06:55,439 he been healthier and cracked a hundred games during his time there, I might 96 00:06:55,439 --> 00:06:59,680 have felt a little bit more motivated to even move him up the list, 97 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,560 perhaps above Who's might I think he's one of those guys that's just super valuable 98 00:07:02,959 --> 00:07:08,040 even if your team is bad. His value just really isn't always properly reflected 99 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,560 or necessarily contextualized. But this was look, this was top There was only 100 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,720 the top three. Seemed like they were going to be consensus, and that's 101 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,639 how it shook out. And speaking of Lonzo Ball, another important side note 102 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,879 is that his father LaVar Ball, and I can tell from Dan's look that 103 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:27,560 he has no idea where I'm going with this. But LaVar Ball did get 104 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,560 a vote, which was interesting, and I deleted that vote because he's not 105 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:35,600 a player. Steve Balmer also got a vote, which was interesting since he 106 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:40,839 is not affiliated with the Lakers franchise. So once more, this was a 107 00:07:40,879 --> 00:07:45,639 weird one. Yeah, And also, why would you rank Steve Bamber if 108 00:07:45,639 --> 00:07:47,319 anything, he took Kawhi Leonard from the Lakers. I don't know if that 109 00:07:47,319 --> 00:07:51,040 makes him a top ten Laker. Yeah, I don't know. We could 110 00:07:51,079 --> 00:07:56,920 have an entire separate recording session about Jimmy Butler, Steve Balmer, and LaVar 111 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:01,439 ball and why they showed up in the top ten for the Lakers. But 112 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,759 the people who actually did we have a two way tie to kick things off. 113 00:08:05,759 --> 00:08:09,399 It was between Lamar Odom, who was fifth for the fans and did 114 00:08:09,439 --> 00:08:13,680 not appear for either me or Dan, and we had Kyle Kuzma, who 115 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,959 actually did appear on all three ballots, which is kind of a rarity here. 116 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,079 He was eighth for the Fans, he was tenth for me, and 117 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,120 he was ninth for you. Odom was tough because he only played the one 118 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,079 season and he was good. But we've had so many players play like the 119 00:08:28,199 --> 00:08:33,600 short abbreviated stints and be good to some extent for the Lakers, and I 120 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:37,600 did feel like Kuzma needed to be on there, if for no other reason 121 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:41,519 the loyalty that the Lakers seemed to want to show to him, like the 122 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:46,600 fact that he was deemed like pseudo untouchable in the Anthony Davis talks and is 123 00:08:46,639 --> 00:08:54,480 still there despite not really developing as some might have expected after his encouraging first 124 00:08:54,519 --> 00:08:58,639 season. I think that those are important factors, yeah, for sure. 125 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,080 And look, he's probably I won't say he's underrated by this point, because 126 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:07,360 it does seem like he's still overrated by the Lakers fan base itself. There. 127 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,240 I think they've gotten better at recognizing his flaws and probably understand he's not 128 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:16,080 the third star. That's also a bar he's being measured against in certain places, 129 00:09:16,159 --> 00:09:18,159 not this space, just to be clear, and that's kind of warped 130 00:09:18,519 --> 00:09:22,120 like what he can actually be. And it's you know, he's not the 131 00:09:22,159 --> 00:09:24,440 worst defender on that team. He can survive at some of the wing positions, 132 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,159 and he's someone who can who can score. You know, you would 133 00:09:28,159 --> 00:09:31,879 like him to shoot a higher percentage off the catch. But there's also value 134 00:09:31,879 --> 00:09:35,879 in knowing that you have someone who, again, maybe not the most efficient 135 00:09:35,919 --> 00:09:39,480 player, but he can generate these square one looks. And so I don't 136 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,120 know that he's the perfect fit for the current iteration of the Lakers, but 137 00:09:43,159 --> 00:09:46,279 they clearly, like you said, saw something in him. I don't know 138 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,960 if it was more so, well, we know we're gonna have to give 139 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:52,559 up Lonzo Ball and Brandon Ingram, and so we're just going to deem one 140 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,639 of Josh Hart or Kyle Kuzma untouchable. I don't know if that's what it 141 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,440 came down to, but there's a clear value there. And look, it 142 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:03,840 seems like he's just handled sort of the lack of continuity in Los Angeles pretty 143 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,879 well where it wasn't you know, you saw kind of Ingram and Lonzo Ball 144 00:10:07,919 --> 00:10:11,799 struggle to adapt around Lebron James. They've since kind of talked about that since 145 00:10:11,879 --> 00:10:15,320 leaving the Lakers, and Kuzma has had those struggles as well, But you 146 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,039 don't really it's not something that he really just look towards or leans on. 147 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,399 So I respect his ability to try and fit in. And when you look 148 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,840 at the way that that he plays, is that, yeah, you know 149 00:10:22,879 --> 00:10:26,200 a lot of the shots that he's taking are the ways that he's being used 150 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,200 on offense, like he's trying to be this seamless fit for the team. 151 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,399 And so I do still think he can be a very valuable scorer and that 152 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,440 there's always going to be I call this the the Andrew Wiggins paradox, is 153 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,600 that I don't think that Andrew Wiggins is a good basketball player, but there's 154 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:46,440 almost more value, or it's he's more useful knowing that he's comfortable operating with 155 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,120 the ball in his hands over shooting off the catch. With the Warriors, 156 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:52,360 that's a problem. But I'm just saying in a vacuum, and so that's 157 00:10:52,399 --> 00:10:56,399 kind of the type of player that Kuzma reminds me of, not Wiggins specifically, 158 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,639 but I'm looking at his offense where it's he's someone who's going to be 159 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:03,279 comfortable controlling everything, which in theory, is a lot more difficult than hitting 160 00:11:03,279 --> 00:11:05,600 those shots off the catch. And that's kind of where I land on him. 161 00:11:05,639 --> 00:11:11,000 And I think there's some value too in being able to fill a high 162 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:16,639 volume scoring role off the bench, even with substandard efficiency, because if you 163 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,759 can still go out and keep the offensivefloat against second units, maybe you're not 164 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,799 going to thrive against starters, or maybe you're not going to be making undeniably 165 00:11:24,879 --> 00:11:30,240 positive impacts, but just the ability to kind of minimize the drop off that 166 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,200 happens when you go to the second unit on the offensive end, like, 167 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,120 there's value to that, and the fact that he's capably filled that role at 168 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,879 a young age is important. Attention to hardwin Knox listeners. 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So moving on to eighth, though, we have met a world 179 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:31,120 piece run our test Panda's friend whatever he's going by today, I think he 180 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,039 actually like did officially change his name to something else, And I'm just totally 181 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,879 blanking on what it is now. But he was eighth, He was tenth 182 00:12:37,879 --> 00:12:41,279 on the fan vote. He was up to sixth for me, he was 183 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,840 seventh for you. For me. This was a player where the birness did 184 00:12:45,879 --> 00:12:50,480 matter, just because he did spend so much time like as as a quality 185 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:52,759 player. Towards the end of his career. In this decade he was a 186 00:12:52,919 --> 00:12:58,639 fourth and Minute's played just barely behind Jordan Clarkson. And the stints with the 187 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,240 Lake in this decade were separated into two. He had the coming off the 188 00:13:03,639 --> 00:13:07,519 twenty ten title. He spent three more years there than he played for the 189 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,440 Knicks. He went and played in China in Italy, and then he came 190 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,559 back and played another sixty games over two seasons for the Lakers at a much 191 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:18,000 lower level. So that kind of takes away from the barness. But the 192 00:13:18,039 --> 00:13:22,799 first stint alone, I think was enough, especially on the defensive end, 193 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,480 to get him into the top ten. Yeah, I have really nothing to 194 00:13:26,519 --> 00:13:28,440 add to that. I think what really put him over the top, if 195 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,679 he were on the fence about including him, is that, well, he 196 00:13:31,759 --> 00:13:33,600 just came back in the middle of the decade and played another sixty games for 197 00:13:33,639 --> 00:13:39,679 the Lakers, just really drive up his airness. Actor And look, this 198 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,759 is like gonna read like a tweet. Prime Metal world Piece was a cap 199 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:48,399 stock problem smoke face emoji. He doesn't fall the Prime Metal world Piece doesn't 200 00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:50,799 really fall into this category. But you know, the first three seasons with 201 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:56,600 the Lakers, particularly those first two just really a work work hard, try 202 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:01,639 hard on the defensive end. And we might be inflating his standing because one 203 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,200 this was so confusing and too maybe were like sort of nostalgic for the way 204 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,960 that he was playing defense. He didn't his last All defensive team was in 205 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,320 two thousand and nine. But I think when you spend as much time as 206 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,639 as he ended up doing there for the Lakers, particularly in this conversation, 207 00:14:15,879 --> 00:14:18,559 I know he said you don't wait there in his factor too much. But 208 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,080 to play that many separate seasons five where you don't have the most games or 209 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,559 the most minutes, but you spent five separate seasons in Los Angeles over this 210 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,879 decade. Look, you need to make the cut. Yeah, I agree, 211 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:33,320 And it's funny like Metalworld piece. For me, he feels like one 212 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:37,320 of those guys where it almost seems like he had a fifty year career because 213 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,720 it seems like he spent a decade in LA and it seems like he spent 214 00:14:41,759 --> 00:14:46,200 a decade with Indiana and there were still four other teams that he played for 215 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:54,000 and like they're marginally memorable stints like Sacramento in Chicago especially, But obviously that's 216 00:14:54,039 --> 00:14:58,080 not the case, and I'm not sure that's really how he's going to end 217 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:03,080 up being remembered a decade from now. But hey, at least he gets 218 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:07,039 to be in the top ten on this weird franchise. Yeah, and look, 219 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,240 if you're looking for what his current name is, it's Meta santaford our 220 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:15,399 Test. That is his current legal name. Oh well, I learned something 221 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,080 today. Throw that out there as a nice little fun fact. There was 222 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,679 your trivia. But we'll just we'll have to make sure that when this is 223 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,879 published that it's accurate because if he changes it again between recording and publication, 224 00:15:24,919 --> 00:15:28,919 which is a possibility, he did change at May twenty twenty, so that's 225 00:15:28,919 --> 00:15:37,720 actually fairly recent. Yep. Alright, so moving on from the fascinating human 226 00:15:37,759 --> 00:15:41,279 being that is Metal World Piece, we have a two way tie for sixth 227 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:46,519 place between Brandon Ingram and Anthony Davis. Davis was up at fourth place for 228 00:15:46,559 --> 00:15:50,879 the fans. I had him at seventh. You did not have him. 229 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,600 Brandon Ingram was ninth for both me and the fans. You had him up 230 00:15:54,600 --> 00:16:00,320 at number four. This is my this is my brandon Ingram victory lap very 231 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,639 against victory laps because we're all so wrong about so many things that I don't 232 00:16:03,679 --> 00:16:07,039 believe we get to celebrate when we're right yourself there, Well I am. 233 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:12,000 I'm gonna put on my hypocrisy hat right now, just because I was very 234 00:16:12,039 --> 00:16:15,120 bullish on brandon Ingram with the Lakers when people were talking about, oh, 235 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,440 could Julius Randall be better as Lonzo Ball? The better prospect Brandon can confirm. 236 00:16:19,519 --> 00:16:23,440 I got like a text today about Brandon Ingram, if probably more than 237 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,159 that, but I feel vindicated obviously this is what he's done in New Orleans. 238 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:32,120 But if you look at his clothes to the latter two seasons he spent 239 00:16:32,399 --> 00:16:34,240 with the Los Angeles Lakers, yeah, you know, they weren't those full 240 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,759 year samples, but he was playing at an all star level, particularly in 241 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:44,919 twenty eighteen twenty nineteen before he you know, I say it's the end of 242 00:16:44,919 --> 00:16:47,120 the season, but it was the end of his towards the talent of his 243 00:16:47,159 --> 00:16:52,399 season because he had those blood cloud issues. He just watching him always felt 244 00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:53,919 like someone who was going to succeed in the NBA, even when he wasn't 245 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,679 making his shots. He was getting to his spots. There felt like a 246 00:16:56,679 --> 00:17:00,000 fluidity to his game. Yes, you want him to take more threes, 247 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,960 doesn't seem like he was. He wasn't that guy and it doesn't seem like 248 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,000 he's going to be that guy to hit off the dribble threes. That's ofinitely 249 00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:11,440 fine for me, just because of how much versatility he provides as as a 250 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:12,920 playmaker. And yes, he's going to take some difficult shots, but he's 251 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:18,000 comfortable with making them. He looks. Towards the end of his tenure with 252 00:17:18,039 --> 00:17:21,599 the Lakercy it looked he at least looked a little bit more comfortable finishing around 253 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,000 the rim, though not nearly as comfortable as he does look now in New 254 00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:27,240 Orleans. And then the other thing that I think we kind of overlook and 255 00:17:27,279 --> 00:17:32,480 maybe that's getting lost in this season because he has struggled defensively with the Pelicans. 256 00:17:32,519 --> 00:17:37,880 I think that's one due part in part to how they play their offense, 257 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:42,680 but also just two with Los Angeles, he was just such a disruptor 258 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:48,319 and you're I still think even now that you can get you know, defense 259 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,400 at the two, three, four spots from him, and to be kind 260 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,039 of someone who I don't think you're ever going to anchor a very good defense. 261 00:17:55,079 --> 00:18:00,000 But despite being more lanky than you are strong, I think he matched 262 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,240 up well with bigger wings and even certain let's say pure fours for that matter, 263 00:18:04,279 --> 00:18:07,720 and so someone who was just as active and really knows how to use 264 00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:11,160 his length on the defensive end. I always felt that, even relative to 265 00:18:11,599 --> 00:18:15,359 how he was underachieving, that he was still underrated during his time with Los 266 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:22,559 Angeles. It feels like Ingram has bounced between being overrated and underrated throughout his 267 00:18:22,759 --> 00:18:26,960 entire career, Like maybe more so than any other player in the league, 268 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,440 it felt like there was he entered the league with so much hype as the 269 00:18:30,519 --> 00:18:34,039 number two pick of the twenty sixteen draft, and he's really disappointing as a 270 00:18:34,079 --> 00:18:37,319 rookie. He only averaged nine point four points, He shot twenty nine point 271 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:41,839 four percent on threes forty point two percent from the field, and it seemed 272 00:18:41,839 --> 00:18:44,440 like, okay, like maybe he's going to be a bust, like maybe 273 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,160 the Lakers squandered their first really high draft pick in decades. And then his 274 00:18:48,279 --> 00:18:52,240 sophomore season came around and like, hey, maybe he's underrated. Like this 275 00:18:52,559 --> 00:18:56,160 the end to his sophomore season seemed full of promise, but then you know, 276 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,359 twenty eighteen nineteen rolls around and all of a sudden, he's over rated 277 00:19:00,519 --> 00:19:03,440 because he's really struggling at the beginning of the year, and then we accept 278 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,400 that that's as new normal, and then he breaks out big time before the 279 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:11,960 blood clot issues popped up, and all of a sudden, now he seems 280 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,480 to be continuing on that trajectory with New Orleans. But he's just he's been 281 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,839 a fascinating player because it seems like the consensus opinion on him has been wrong 282 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:25,200 at every single turn. And look, I think the absence of continuity really 283 00:19:25,279 --> 00:19:26,960 ends up hurting him when you look at how many different versions of the Lakers 284 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:33,880 he played for. I specifically believe that the end of twenty seventeen two eighteen 285 00:19:33,599 --> 00:19:38,319 probably spills over into twenty eighteen twenty nineteen if you don't have Lebron James there, 286 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,599 and that's an adjustment that everyone had to make. Look, it's Lebron 287 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:42,759 James, so you make it. I'm not criticizing them for that, but 288 00:19:44,039 --> 00:19:48,519 he was just a part of so many different iterations of the Lakers within those 289 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:53,359 three seasons that it's not really surprising that he struggled and never really found like 290 00:19:53,440 --> 00:20:00,079 this happy, sustainable medium, right. And I think the adjustment, if 291 00:20:00,079 --> 00:20:03,480 I may segue to Davis here, is that was kind of the reason that 292 00:20:03,519 --> 00:20:07,400 I had Davis higher and why I kind of understand why the fans had him 293 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,119 all the way up at fourth. I think you can make an argument that 294 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,440 he's been the second best player that has played for them this decade. And 295 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:21,599 that's not meant as disrespect to Kobe Bryant or to Pau Gasol, but they 296 00:20:21,599 --> 00:20:25,920 were at the back ends of their careers when the time frame that we're talking 297 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:30,160 about started. Davis has been phenomenal this year, albeit only for fifty five 298 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,960 games. But his ability to adjust to playing with a ball dominant superstar in 299 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:40,359 Lebron James, and to continue operating at such a ridiculously high level in a 300 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:45,240 small sample size in a season that isn't yet complete, that's really impressive. 301 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:52,640 And I think that he has reinvigorated this franchise with the hope and with the 302 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,480 Lakers exceptionalism that has been part and parcel for the franchise for so long. 303 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:03,839 And I do understand we're willing to give him sort of the benefit that the 304 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:10,519 statistics aren't necessarily providing in a way that we aren't for someone like Ingram. 305 00:21:10,599 --> 00:21:14,359 Yeah, I just couldn't bring myself to to put him on there after just 306 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,799 a fifty five game sample size, and which I think is an understandable decision 307 00:21:18,839 --> 00:21:21,599 as well if I was not Also, if I wasn't going to put odom 308 00:21:21,759 --> 00:21:23,599 or buying him on mine, it was just really tough to put Anthony Davis 309 00:21:23,599 --> 00:21:26,920 there. Still, I think you can make the case pretty strongly that he's 310 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:32,640 the best player of the decade to play for the Lakers in his prime. 311 00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:36,799 Just because you look at you're kind of hitting the tail end of Kobe Bryant, 312 00:21:36,839 --> 00:21:40,519 say they here Lebron James. If you still want to consider Lebron James 313 00:21:40,559 --> 00:21:41,640 as being in his prime, that's absolutely fine with me. I want to 314 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,880 argue with you there. But if you do think that this is the tail 315 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,720 end of Lebron's career in some form, then I think Anthony Davis ends up 316 00:21:48,759 --> 00:21:56,440 taking that title pretty handedly. That's fair. Who's there who comes in at 317 00:21:56,519 --> 00:22:00,799 number five for US Number five did not in the Fans Top ten. He 318 00:22:00,839 --> 00:22:06,599 was actually down at sixteenth place behind Nick Young and Derek Fisher, which is 319 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,640 which is interesting. I had him up at number four, you had him 320 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:15,440 at number five, and it is Cantavious called well Pope. I'm not really 321 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:22,400 sure what to say about KCP because he's just sort of been there filling a 322 00:22:22,519 --> 00:22:26,200 three D role without really excelling at either the three or the D part of 323 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:32,680 that. Hey, this season thirty nine point four percent from three, shooting 324 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:37,200 fifty four point three percent on his twos. And I've this is my bias 325 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,039 probably creeping in, but I've been I was higher on him when he was 326 00:22:41,079 --> 00:22:45,000 with Detroit. I thought he was definitively better and worth a lot more money 327 00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:51,279 than Tim Hardaway Junior. I clearly missed on KCP to a big extent, 328 00:22:51,599 --> 00:22:55,400 but I still think he's a very helpful player. And what probably drags down 329 00:22:55,519 --> 00:22:59,839 his value over the previous two seasons, including the first one that he spent 330 00:22:59,839 --> 00:23:03,440 with Lebron, is that, yes, one, there's the changing teams thing, 331 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,440 but you're also weren't on great teams to begin with, and now it 332 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,680 seems like he's sort of found a wheelhouse on a good team, and you 333 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,559 can show and you and it's proven that he can really move the needle for 334 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,839 a contender, or at least a really good team. The Lakers are a 335 00:23:18,839 --> 00:23:21,200 contender, But I'm saying you could move him out of this situation. He 336 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:26,119 would still be good and impactful for a quality squad if you can live with 337 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,960 the heat checks off the dribble in transition from three. The KCP experience, 338 00:23:30,039 --> 00:23:33,960 to me is worth it, and he is never really developed into this. 339 00:23:34,279 --> 00:23:37,799 Detroit tried, and then the Lakers kind of got away from this after year 340 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,720 one once they bring in Lebron. He's not really going to give you a 341 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,559 ton of secondary playmaking, but someone who can work off the dribble with the 342 00:23:45,599 --> 00:23:48,160 ball, who's fine hitting those shots off the catch, and who is going 343 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,519 to work on defense, and whose defensive range sort of just belies his physical 344 00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:56,839 tools because he's six five, and that seems like it might be a generous 345 00:23:56,839 --> 00:24:00,240 listing. He's not super long, and yet you can get away with him. 346 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,279 You'd rather him defend either guard position, which is fine, but you 347 00:24:03,319 --> 00:24:07,400 can get away with certain stints with him defending actual wings. And so this 348 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,680 isn't me arguing that KCP and Ne's have his batter hung up in Staples Center, 349 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,559 have his Jersey retired in Staples Center. But I think that he's been 350 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,920 particularly this season, that he's been really good. And so for someone who 351 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,680 spent the past two seasons on weird versions of the Lakers and now showing that 352 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,920 you can make a high level impact on this good of a team, I 353 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:33,839 think that really needs to earn serious consideration within this entire conversation. Yeah, 354 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,759 I mean, I had him up at fourth and I think that what we're 355 00:24:37,799 --> 00:24:44,599 seeing from KCP now is the new normal where he's kind of accepted that he 356 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,759 has a smaller role and he's going to excel at it. And I think 357 00:24:47,799 --> 00:24:52,920 it's understandable that it took so much time to get there because of the lack 358 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,359 of continuity, but also because of the player that he was asked to be 359 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,920 in college. So you know, I was at George at the same time 360 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,799 as Caldwell Pope, so I saw I got to see him play a lot 361 00:25:03,839 --> 00:25:07,440 of games at Stegman Coliseum and Athens, Georgia, and he was the guy 362 00:25:07,519 --> 00:25:14,559 there and that team was awful around him. There was no other even fringe 363 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,680 NVA quality player joining him, so he constantly had double teams thrown at him, 364 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,279 and he was still asked to take those tough shots and be the guy. 365 00:25:22,839 --> 00:25:26,359 And it's a tough adjustment from being the guy to being not the guy. 366 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,839 I mean, as basic as that sounds. When you're used to being 367 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,359 the guy taking the hero shots and the bailout possessions on offense at the end 368 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,799 of the shot clock, and all of a sudden you're asked to be a 369 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,640 definitive role player, which he was in Detroit, which he was in la 370 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:47,960 I think that he's finally getting to the point where he's accepted that role and 371 00:25:48,039 --> 00:25:51,720 has realized that it's in his best interest to thrive in it without necessarily trying 372 00:25:51,759 --> 00:25:53,759 to push those boundaries. And that's what we're seeing this year on a good 373 00:25:53,799 --> 00:25:57,640 team, right And what you're so you kind of I don't want to say 374 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:02,759 limit him too, but you're gonna have someone who specializes in taking taking threes, 375 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,920 assisted threes and then really getting out in transition and capitalizing on those opportunities. 376 00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:11,240 And he just looks more comfortable doing that. This is the best year 377 00:26:11,319 --> 00:26:12,359 he's had, even when he is putting a ball on the floor. Just 378 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:17,599 from a handle perspective, his turnover rate has has never been lower, and 379 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,079 so it does sort of feel like he's coming in to his own and like 380 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,279 you said, that journey to kind of it's probably this sounds way too profound 381 00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:27,200 for talking about bestball right now, but that journey for kind of discovering the 382 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:33,039 player that he needed to be in the NBA or one that he can be 383 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,720 sustainably, because even in Detroit, it felt like there was this rush to 384 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:42,359 coordinate or to expand his arsenal where it was this could never be the player 385 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,640 that KCP could be in Detroit, like they needed him to be that higher 386 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,799 volume pick and roll guy, probably during his you know, definitely his last 387 00:26:49,839 --> 00:26:53,920 season, maybe also that second last season with the Pistons as well. So 388 00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:00,359 it's I think he's still somewhat of a punchline to people, but he he's 389 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,960 been just this this really net, big net positive for the Lakers this year 390 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,920 and probably has been just by the numbers, their best shooter when you're looking 391 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,160 at from three point that Danny Green is still going to be their most reliable 392 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,319 three point marksman, but he might be their second most dependable one just in 393 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,480 a in a bubble and no Disney World pun intended there. Yeah, and 394 00:27:19,799 --> 00:27:23,359 you need that, especially on a team that's that's led by Lebron. I 395 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,480 get why why the fans didn't have him in the top ten, because he's 396 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:32,440 not glamorous. He's not been much more than a role player, and he's 397 00:27:32,519 --> 00:27:34,640 ultimately been a little bit disappointing. And he has that no trade clause, 398 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,680 which I think is going to turn people against him a little bit. But 399 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:45,079 you know, I'm glad that he's he's getting some credit here for the journey 400 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,720 that he's taken. And look, he can't hold the no trade clause against 401 00:27:47,799 --> 00:27:52,039 him anymore. No, definitely past exactly exactly. But let's move on to 402 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,559 number four because I think it's one of my favorite placements in any of the 403 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,240 fourteen of these episodes that we've done so far, and it's Julius Randall, 404 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:07,480 who is somehow in fourth place despite not appearing in the top four on any 405 00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:11,039 ballot. Like I'm not talking about the fan vote or my vote or Dan's 406 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:17,480 vote, I'm talking about any fan ballot. He had zero votes in the 407 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:22,880 top four from anyone and still finished fourth because everyone has all jumbled throughout this 408 00:28:22,039 --> 00:28:26,440 entire process. So he was seventh for the fans, he was fifth for 409 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:32,039 me, he was sixth for you, and I feel like all those placements 410 00:28:32,039 --> 00:28:36,680 are pretty appropriate, just because his career got off to such a weird start 411 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,359 when he had the season ending injury one game into his rookie season. His 412 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:45,200 delayed debut, for lack of a better term, went well, but he 413 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,759 was quickly exposed for only being able to go to his left only using his 414 00:28:48,839 --> 00:28:52,759 left hand, like he didn't have very much of an offensive arsenal. He 415 00:28:52,839 --> 00:28:56,440 was kind of a liability on defense at times, but he's been a hard 416 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,480 working player who has put up some big numbers for bad teams. Now, 417 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:07,000 yeah, there's like the fact that you can't use him. What really hurts 418 00:29:07,039 --> 00:29:10,480 him is that you can't use him at center and have a prayer of fielding 419 00:29:10,519 --> 00:29:14,039 a good defense is probably the biggest thing to hold him back. I am 420 00:29:14,039 --> 00:29:17,400 curious if he never gets injured as a rookie, like never breaks his leg, 421 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,079 is he's probably still around the same player. But do we view him 422 00:29:21,079 --> 00:29:25,079 in more rosy terms, like just because he would have by default been a 423 00:29:25,119 --> 00:29:30,319 bigger part of the Lakers long term plan at that point, I honestly don't 424 00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:34,480 think so, just because, like reputations are established so quickly in the NBA, 425 00:29:34,559 --> 00:29:38,680 and once there's a popular perception, it's really hard to break past that. 426 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,079 I mean, I think we see that especially with like guards on defense, 427 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:47,559 Like how hard has it been for the consensus opinion to accept that Steph 428 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:52,279 Curry and James Harden aren't atrocious defenders like they were early in their careers. 429 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,920 I think that's a little bit of what we saw with Randall, where it 430 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,200 was like, okay, Like he played one game in his rookie c in 431 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,799 his second year, he only averaged eleven point three points per game, Like, 432 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:08,079 maybe he's not this really high the high valued prospect that we thought he 433 00:30:08,119 --> 00:30:12,319 could be coming out of Kentucky. He's also one of those players where you 434 00:30:12,319 --> 00:30:17,240 look at his assist numbers and they're for his position, they're good, and 435 00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:22,359 I just don't trust him to create for anyone Like those passes, right, 436 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,880 the passes feel like last resorts is how I would describe it. Still, 437 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,519 he could be fun to watch because he's like, and this is not a 438 00:30:29,599 --> 00:30:32,359 unique comparison, but he's like a bowling ball when he gets up and down 439 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,400 the court, like at full momentum. And so if you can have a 440 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,559 big guy who could lead fast breaks, that's great. I just you can't 441 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,359 really play to me the four position as effectively in today's MBA without having some 442 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:47,039 zemblance of a three point shot. And while he never really took them in 443 00:30:47,079 --> 00:30:51,000 Los Angeles, never averaged more than point nine three point attempts per game with 444 00:30:51,039 --> 00:30:52,359 Ali, and so he started taking him with the Pelicans and the Knicks, 445 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,599 just not at a high clip, although he was at thirty four point four 446 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,200 percent while he was in New Orleans. So but with Los Angeles scifically that 447 00:31:00,319 --> 00:31:04,920 final year there, leading into restricted free agency, which became unrestricted free agency 448 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,200 for him. That he had a really good year. He shot fifty seven 449 00:31:08,279 --> 00:31:11,559 point five percent on his twos, and that was with a ton of offensive 450 00:31:11,599 --> 00:31:17,960 responsibility. Wasn't subsisting solely on these gimme opportunities and assisted looks. So he 451 00:31:18,079 --> 00:31:19,720 had that one really good year. And if you want to argue that his 452 00:31:19,799 --> 00:31:23,319 third season was better than replacement level, I think that's fine. And so 453 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:30,559 having at least two solid to really good seasons in this era for the Lakers, 454 00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:33,279 I think it immediately gives you like top five consideration. I of course 455 00:31:33,319 --> 00:31:37,000 didn't have him there, but the fact that he was able to appear in 456 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,400 semi close spots on all of the ballots. It almost makes sense that he 457 00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:45,400 ends up as high as he did. I kind of want to see this 458 00:31:47,519 --> 00:31:52,119 Lakers Decade team play some of the previous Lakers Decade teams because it would be 459 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,039 hilarious. I mean, we're talking about Julius Randall in fourth place, right, 460 00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,960 No disrespect meant to Julius Randall, who has He's again he's put up 461 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,880 big numbers on bad teams. It's not but come on, it's not the 462 00:32:05,079 --> 00:32:07,759 outside of the top three. It's not one that you would expect from what 463 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:12,440 has remained a flagship franchise. Like the Knicks have just been awful for so 464 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,039 long. When we get to them, it's all right, right, whatever. 465 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:20,680 But because it's the Lakers, and because it's because they've like weren't just 466 00:32:20,759 --> 00:32:24,920 bad this entire decade, Like they've had probably three good seasons of the decade, 467 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,880 so maybe we almost forget about that. But the Lakers have never lost 468 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,200 their flagship status, and so you would just expect a better selection. But 469 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:38,359 I think just between ushering out the Kobe Bryant era and then trying to figure 470 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,200 out what you were gonna do, it looked like they wanted to re build 471 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,440 around the kiddies, but then it was not, We're just gonna pivot to 472 00:32:44,559 --> 00:32:49,839 all free agency everything. I won't say that lack of decisiveness, but certainly 473 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:54,319 that the number of versions of the Lakers that we've seen this decade under all 474 00:32:54,359 --> 00:32:58,640 these different circumstances, I think that contributes to why this is such a confusing 475 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:04,079 And I would say outside the top three lackluster list, I agree with you, 476 00:33:04,119 --> 00:33:06,960 and let's move into the top three so that we can stop talking about 477 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:12,640 mediocre Lakers. Number three is Lebron James. He was second for the fan 478 00:33:12,759 --> 00:33:17,359 vote. He was third for both you and I only two seasons. That's 479 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:22,640 really the only knock that you can you can have against Lebron's time with the 480 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:28,160 Lakers right now. I mean, what he's done this season in particular is 481 00:33:28,319 --> 00:33:34,039 phenomenal, leading the league and assists kind of reinventing his game again, extending 482 00:33:34,079 --> 00:33:38,920 his prime into this age thirty five season. Still saying that he has an 483 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:43,359 argument to be called the best player in the world. I'm not quite sure 484 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,480 that he deserves that actual title right now, but in a playoff series, 485 00:33:46,559 --> 00:33:51,720 he might still be the number one choice to build around, even ahead of 486 00:33:51,759 --> 00:33:55,160 Jana Santa Cumpo and and the other contenders for that role. You know, 487 00:33:55,799 --> 00:34:00,799 he suffered the first pseudo major injury of his career with the groin injury that 488 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,759 kind of led to some time off during his first year in LA. That's 489 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,920 probably the only other knock against him. But what he's done in bringing this 490 00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:15,719 franchise back to prominence, I don't really hate it if you haven't even even 491 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,639 higher than third. Yeah, Look, when you're the best player or in 492 00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:22,679 the conversation for best player in the NBA for more than a season with the 493 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,360 team, I think it's fair to just automatically assume you'll be near the top 494 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:30,000 of a decade ranking list. And with him, you know, it's a 495 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,440 little bit hypocritical maybe for me to say, well, I can't put owd 496 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,239 him or buying him on here or Anthony Davis, but I put Lebron. 497 00:34:35,559 --> 00:34:38,119 Lebron has more games in a Lakers uniform in this decade than all three of 498 00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:42,360 those guys. And it's sort of like you said, I would say, 499 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,679 I think Janni's attend to Kupo is the best player in the NBA overall. 500 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,719 But if you to pick a player that you want. You need one win 501 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,400 in a playoff series, it's between Lebron or Kawhi right now for me, 502 00:34:52,559 --> 00:34:57,280 if that makes any sense. And the fact that he's still in that conversation, 503 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,000 this is his age thirty five season, is just absolutely remarkable, and 504 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:07,880 look, he he just decided essentially this isn't I won't say it's necessarily out 505 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,800 of necessity, even though it is because the Lakers lack these secondary playmakers. 506 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,159 But he came in age thirty five season, second year with the Lakers, 507 00:35:15,199 --> 00:35:20,400 another sort of off season of turnover where you gave away a ton of youngsters 508 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,000 to get Anthony Davis, and he was just basically, well, I'm just 509 00:35:22,039 --> 00:35:27,119 going to lead the league in assist That is astounding, and so I think 510 00:35:27,119 --> 00:35:30,000 he definitely belongs to the top three. It's probably tough to put him any 511 00:35:30,079 --> 00:35:35,480 higher for me, just because there are those ties that the next two players 512 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,079 have to the organization that Lebron doesn't yet have and we'll probably never have even 513 00:35:38,079 --> 00:35:42,440 if he wins a title. But if someone just came in and said, 514 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,800 look, I think you need to go with talent here and contributions during this 515 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,119 time that they spent with the Lakers. You probably couldn't make a case to 516 00:35:51,119 --> 00:35:55,559 put him at number one. I do not disagree with that. I do, 517 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,320 however, have a tribute question for you now. I was hoping we 518 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,519 were going to get through a decade ranking podcast of that. Hell no, 519 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:07,400 absolutely not so. When Lebron first joined the Lakers, I remember I wrote 520 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:13,239 a piece for Bleacher Report about the best players who had ever worn a Lakers' 521 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,679 jersey. It wasn't about what they had done in a Lakers uniform, which 522 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:21,480 is why guys like Gary Payton and Carl Mullen were mentioned as well as Lebron, 523 00:36:21,519 --> 00:36:24,159 who had yet to do anything for the Lakers in that jersey. And 524 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:29,039 I think a lot of people misinterpreted and it got a lot of hate because 525 00:36:29,079 --> 00:36:31,119 of that. But that's neither here nor there. But the point is that 526 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:36,280 a season and a half later, he's done enough that all of a sudden, 527 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:42,079 we can talk about him as one of the primary contributors to the Lakers 528 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,760 throughout their storied history, not in any way a pantheon member of the franchise 529 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,840 like a Kareem or a Jerry West, or a Kobe or a Magic Johnson 530 00:36:51,159 --> 00:36:52,960 or even going back to a George Miken. So my question to you is 531 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:58,639 where after these two seasons, with the second one still kind of in progress, 532 00:36:58,679 --> 00:37:02,800 I guess does he Ran can win shares all time on the Lakers all 533 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:07,320 time on the Lakers. Well, I know how many wind shares he has 534 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:12,199 because I was just looking at them before. That would be sixteen point eight, 535 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,119 right, and anyone who's curious that doesn't really feel like an awful lot 536 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:28,320 all time twenty five. He's actually thirty nine alright, because again the history 537 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,000 of this franchise is remarkable. So he's he's sandwiched between Michael Thompson and Metal 538 00:37:32,039 --> 00:37:37,000 World Peace. The second part of this trivia question is to see how many 539 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,519 of the top ten you can name. Oh, come on, Kobe, 540 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:50,400 that's number one, Kareem number three, Magic Johnson number four, Worthy number 541 00:37:50,519 --> 00:37:55,119 nine, Jerry West number two. I'm going to forget names that I said 542 00:37:55,239 --> 00:38:00,599 is Aldrew Baylor on there Algin Baylor is sixth, one of them most underrated 543 00:38:00,599 --> 00:38:07,480 players ever, by the way, mister Eldrem Baylor Pagasol. Pagasol is thirteenth. 544 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:15,079 So I'm not even gonna bother you. Only got four names left in 545 00:38:15,159 --> 00:38:17,440 the top ten. That's basically like half, which is really like I'm trying 546 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:22,239 to I'm trying to think of the obvious ones that I'm forgetting. I might 547 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:27,320 just holy crap, shack, there's one. He's number seven? Wow? 548 00:38:30,039 --> 00:38:32,440 Am I forgetting anyone else? Obvious? I mean I already mentioned one of 549 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,719 them and you haven't said his name? Oh did you? I definitely wasn't 550 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,519 paying attention. Then that's all right. I'm used to that. Let's just 551 00:38:40,519 --> 00:38:43,639 call it. I named seven. Well, no, let me is odem 552 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,280 on there, odim is not odem is fifteenth. Yeah, I didn't think 553 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:51,840 he's I didn't have high hopes for that pick. FYI might just have might 554 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,679 just have to call it Byron Scott's tenth. That why wouldn't have gotten him? 555 00:38:55,679 --> 00:38:59,480 I'm gonna let you know. Bern Mickelson is eighth when we've gotten him 556 00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:01,599 either, and George Mike and his fifth. That's one I should have gotten. 557 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:07,079 That's all right. He did. He did finish his time in Minneapolis 558 00:39:07,079 --> 00:39:09,840 in nineteen fifty six not naming Jacques looked pretty bad. Hey, you got 559 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:14,320 it eventually. I was hoping that you would you and you did not let 560 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,159 me down. He put on the spot like this, can you take us 561 00:39:17,199 --> 00:39:20,960 through? That's probably enough on le Bron James, Can you take us through 562 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,679 the number two spot? A number two spot belonged to Pawcasol, who was 563 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:28,599 third for the fans and was second for both of us. I feel like 564 00:39:28,639 --> 00:39:31,320 it would be really hard to make a case that Pawcasol has been the second 565 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:37,840 best Laker from a single season standpoint or from a peak level standpoint throughout his 566 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:43,440 time, especially because we're not considering the two title winning years that he was 567 00:39:43,559 --> 00:39:46,679 an integral part of winning. But still, you know, he spent four 568 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:51,920 years with the Lakers during this decade, one of which resulted in an All 569 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,320 Star appearance, all four of which he was still a high quality offensive player 570 00:39:55,320 --> 00:40:01,559 in particular, so he seems to be pushed ahead through a combination of the 571 00:40:01,559 --> 00:40:06,880 theirness factor and the peak level that he was playing at. Right. I 572 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,840 mean, look the three of the four seasons he spent with Los Angeles here 573 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,719 like he was just an offensive machine. And even looking at the four years 574 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,920 in totality, seventeen point one points, nine point eight rebounds, three point 575 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,599 six assist per game while shooting over fifty percent from two, and he took 576 00:40:22,599 --> 00:40:25,000 he was like he was more of a pick and pop pick could do stuff 577 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,920 in the post, but so he's taking a lot of jumpers to be remained 578 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,840 that efficient through what was his age thirty three season. Never got to the 579 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,840 point where he was taking a ton of threes with the Lakers. That only 580 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,719 ever really happened during his seasons with the Spurs and that one year with the 581 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:45,639 Bulls. Still just his legacy in general with the Lakers, I wonder if 582 00:40:45,639 --> 00:40:47,719 he's just fully appreciated. I think he is, but he was there were 583 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:52,639 times in playoff series where he was sort of just dead, even with Kobe 584 00:40:52,639 --> 00:40:55,199 Bryant when looking at how valuable he was to the team winning. And so 585 00:40:55,719 --> 00:41:00,840 maybe you could look, it was impossible for me to put Lebron on overpower 586 00:41:00,159 --> 00:41:05,480 or over Kobe, but maybe you can make an argument for Lebron over power. 587 00:41:05,519 --> 00:41:08,480 But again, there's like those intrinsic ties to the organization, even though 588 00:41:08,519 --> 00:41:14,440 these weren't championship winning years that I think both Gasol and Kobe have quite handily 589 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:22,159 over Lebron. Would you retire the number sixteen jersey? I think I would. 590 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:30,519 I think you have to. The Lakers have had so many jerseys retired 591 00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:36,639 already. I'm trying to get the exact number here. I just I don't 592 00:41:36,679 --> 00:41:43,960 know if if you to be the second best player on two championship teams and 593 00:41:44,519 --> 00:41:46,440 he's going to be. I mean this has more to do with just the 594 00:41:46,519 --> 00:41:51,599 NBA obviously, but he's going to be a Hall of Famer. So and 595 00:41:51,639 --> 00:41:54,119 you look at I think I think you do it. Yeah. The Lakers 596 00:41:54,159 --> 00:41:59,519 have retired eleven numbers so far. No one has worn sixteen since since Power 597 00:41:59,599 --> 00:42:04,199 did. Granted there's not been much time for people to have that opportunity, 598 00:42:04,679 --> 00:42:07,159 but yeah, I feel like it would be difficult not to. I wonder 599 00:42:07,159 --> 00:42:09,559 if this is even a discussion, this might sound like a dumb question of 600 00:42:09,639 --> 00:42:15,519 Lakers fans where it might just be reflective. Yes, yeah, I know 601 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:20,119 I've not really seen anything about this one before, but yeah, let let 602 00:42:20,199 --> 00:42:22,960 us know for sure. Look, if you're gonna I think it's just generally 603 00:42:23,119 --> 00:42:27,280 and mostly because Joe Lake Up said as much, you're going to retire in 604 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,079 Andre Gadala in Golden State, then a PAL becomes a no brainer, even 605 00:42:30,119 --> 00:42:36,800 for a franchise like the Lakers, as storied as they are. No. 606 00:42:36,679 --> 00:42:40,719 No, it looks like there has been some conversation about it just through my 607 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,079 quick my quick Google search here, and he's talked about how it would be 608 00:42:45,119 --> 00:42:47,800 an honor to have his jersey retired, and there have been opinion pieces about 609 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:52,440 how how people should, But yeah, it doesn't seem like there's any like, 610 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,800 oh, yeah, this is an obvious answer at least I guess because 611 00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:00,320 what he only spends how many seasons in total with the Lakers? A little 612 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,119 bit more than six? Like, is that just not long enough to become 613 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:08,480 it consensus jersey retiree when two of them result in titles, though also very 614 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,480 fair, And you take us to number one, where we know there was 615 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,559 a major upset that's going to jack everyone. Yeah, it was. It 616 00:43:15,599 --> 00:43:20,119 was Kobe Bryant. Kobe was the only player who appeared on every single fan 617 00:43:20,159 --> 00:43:23,280 ballot. Two people did not have Lebron, three people did not have Powacasol, 618 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:29,960 seven people did not have Anthony Davis and including including Dan. But yeah, 619 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:36,199 I mean it feels like Kobe was both the obvious number one and not 620 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,280 necessarily a lock for that number one spot, if that makes any sense, 621 00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:45,760 because he, you know, the first, the first couple of seasons of 622 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:50,320 this decade period that we're looking at he was still Kobe Bryant, but then 623 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:54,239 we had the Achilles tear and only a six game season in a thirty five 624 00:43:54,280 --> 00:44:00,159 games season, and he was operating at not a net negative level, I 625 00:44:00,199 --> 00:44:05,440 don't, I don't think, but at a certainly a diminished level. But 626 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,559 then we still have the indelible memories provided by like the sixty point game to 627 00:44:09,639 --> 00:44:15,039 finish his career, and he's still Kobe Bryant, and just how much he 628 00:44:15,119 --> 00:44:22,239 meant to the Lakers franchise. And I felt like it wouldn't necessarily be like 629 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:27,440 a blasphemous choice to have anybody else or to have two other people, I 630 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,760 guess in that number one spot. But I still like, didn't really hesitate 631 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:35,440 before putting him in my number one spot. Does that make any sense? 632 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,119 Am I just kind of talking in circles here? No, That's exactly where 633 00:44:37,159 --> 00:44:39,920 I landed, although I think you can you don't need to dip though around 634 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,719 it. He was his final three seasons there, he was only six games 635 00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:45,880 from one of the measure toos Acchilies. He was a net negative. It 636 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:47,920 was just that was what if it was going to be a difficult decision. 637 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:52,639 That's what made it so difficult, but he had those two exceptional campaigns that 638 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:57,360 fall under this decade, and look twenty thirteen in particular. Even though that 639 00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:05,320 team was a disaster, Kobe Bryant aged thirty four campaign was just an absolute 640 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,760 monster as a playmaker, as a scorer, and when he got injured, 641 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:14,840 you just felt that they're you know, would they Yes, they were clawing 642 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,840 and fighting for a playoff spot, and while he was healthy, he felt 643 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,320 like they were going to get it. But once he went down, I 644 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:22,960 think you appreciated how much he actually meant to that team that was supposed to 645 00:45:23,039 --> 00:45:27,119 be better than him. And I know they were dealing with injuries to Goussoul 646 00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,559 and to Steve Nash, but that was just one heck of a year to 647 00:45:30,679 --> 00:45:35,159 have. And of course it was downhill after that, but that's to be 648 00:45:35,199 --> 00:45:37,000 expected. I was with you, though, if you wanted to be a 649 00:45:37,039 --> 00:45:40,960 stickler, could you maybe make the case that this spot belongs to a power 650 00:45:42,159 --> 00:45:46,239 Lebron James. Maybe, but the emotional value that Kobe has to the Lakers, 651 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,760 and something that I was even surprised to see, and you know that 652 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:55,159 I'm not the biggest Kobe advocate, definitely did sort of a personality one eighty 653 00:45:55,480 --> 00:46:01,440 later on in his career. But I've always had trouble reconciling the you know, 654 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:06,480 the rape accusations with him and how he kind of handled himself earlier in 655 00:46:06,519 --> 00:46:10,920 his career, but just the connection that fans felt to him and also current 656 00:46:12,199 --> 00:46:15,880 players, current players like a Trey Young who's so young that wasn't even watching 657 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:22,760 Kobe Bryant in his prime, to feel like, well, they obviously did 658 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,119 know him, but to feel that just sort of camaraderie with him. That's 659 00:46:25,119 --> 00:46:29,719 something that really drives up Kobe's value in this discussion to me, is because 660 00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:36,159 he still is the Lakers organization, Like that's who this franchise has become most 661 00:46:36,199 --> 00:46:39,760 synonymous with, I believe, and to me, that made this an easy 662 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:45,440 decision. Even though those final three seasons, because of injuries, because of 663 00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,559 age, because of pretty bad performances slash pretty bad teams that he was on, 664 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,280 maybe that opened the door for someone else to creep in. But I 665 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,320 never really fully considered it. And let's not forget that. And there's a 666 00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:59,679 chance that Space Jam two could change this, but that Kobe is the only 667 00:46:59,679 --> 00:47:02,440 awesome winner in the last decade for the Lakers. It's so true, and 668 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,440 it's I'm pretty sure Space Jam two at this point is gonna fall outside this 669 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,400 decade, so he has nothing to worry about. That's just true. Any 670 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:15,519 honorable mentions that you through so many, all right, so we'll end the 671 00:47:15,519 --> 00:47:20,199 podcast there since we have no honorable mentions. So outside of the top ten 672 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,239 of the fan vote, we had Dwight Howard at eleventh, we had Lonzo 673 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:27,800 Ball and D'Angelo Russell tied at twelfth. Derek Fisher was fourteenth, Nick Young 674 00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:31,639 was fifteenth, Contavious Caldwell Pope was sixteenth, Jordan Clarkson at seventeen, Lou 675 00:47:31,679 --> 00:47:37,239 Williams at eighteen, Rajon Rondo at nineteen, JaVale McGee at twenty, Shannon 676 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,760 Brown at twenty one, a tie between Jeremy Lynn and Robert Sachray at twenty 677 00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:45,119 two. Oh Boy, Vika Zubach and Matt Barnes were tied for twenty fourth. 678 00:47:45,599 --> 00:47:51,639 Tied for twenty six we had Brook Lopez and Sviatoslav Mikhailiuk. Twenty eighth 679 00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,559 was a tie between Steve Blake and Alex Caruso, who I'm shocked wasn't higher 680 00:47:54,559 --> 00:47:59,320 in the fan vote. Thirtieth We had a tie between lou All Dang, 681 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:04,880 Sasha v Chich and Timofey Mozgov. Thirty third was Larry Nance Jr. Thirty 682 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,800 fourth was a tie between Danny Green, Jordan Hill and Trevor Ariza. And 683 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:13,639 then receiving one tenth place vote apiece, we had Jordan Farmar, Jody Meeks, 684 00:48:14,159 --> 00:48:20,159 Ed Davis, and Jimmy Butler. The only one that's actually just ridiculous 685 00:48:20,199 --> 00:48:22,960 on there is Jimmy Butler because he didn't play for the team. Did you 686 00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:27,760 name KCP within that list though? Yeah, he was sixteenth. How is 687 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,000 that possible? Didn't even skip over him somehow? No, I'm saying, 688 00:48:31,159 --> 00:48:34,679 didn't he make he was six on the composite? How did he end up 689 00:48:34,679 --> 00:48:40,440 being a honorable mention? I'm just talking about from the fan vote composite. 690 00:48:40,519 --> 00:48:45,400 Yeah, just just purely looking at the fan ballots. I should have made 691 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,559 that more clear. Well, that's a lot of that's a lot of names. 692 00:48:47,639 --> 00:48:52,440 It's a lot of names. I'm impressed that. I'm impressed with myself 693 00:48:52,519 --> 00:48:54,519 that I got through all of them. Yeah, look here in pronunciation on 694 00:48:54,559 --> 00:48:58,840 them, we're spot on. I'm a little bit upset that I didn't hear 695 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,719 Carlos Boozer's name. I don't remember hearing Roy Hibbert either, but I'll get 696 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,480 over it. I mean, you can always give him a shout at the 697 00:49:05,519 --> 00:49:07,079 end of the podcast. Well it can't be one of those two now. 698 00:49:07,119 --> 00:49:09,800 But with that, all of that said, we hope you enjoyed this. 699 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,960 It was. It was really a tough one for us to get through it 700 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,000 in a good way because it's a nice thought exercise, but this was a 701 00:49:15,119 --> 00:49:21,719 very tough list to compile. Please remember to rate review and subscribe to us 702 00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,840 on iTunes, particularly if you're enjoying these decade ranking series, or subscribe rate 703 00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:29,760 review Us wherever else you are getting your podcasts. Until next time, Adam 704 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:31,760 and I will be coming at you with the Memphis Grizzlies rankings. But until 705 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:36,000 then, we leave you with the shout out to the one, the Only, 706 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:46,480 the Lakers Legend Karl Clark, Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvelous, 707 00:49:46,519 --> 00:49:52,920 Marvin Hagler, and Thomas Hearns legends whose four way rivalry define one of 708 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:57,599 the greatest errors in boxing history, relive their decade of dominance in the new 709 00:49:57,639 --> 00:50:01,840 Showtime Sports documentary The Kings, a four part series premiering Sunday, June sixth, 710 00:50:02,039 --> 00:50:04,000 only on Showtime