Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin willishur host, and I'm
still out on the West coast in California. I'm in my old unbelievable,
I hit the wrong button. I'm in my old stomping grounds where actually where
I used to live for oh, I don't know, somewhere around eight or
nine years. And I'm in Tibron, California, which is in the San
Francisco Bay area, a beautiful place, exploring old places I used to go
and having a one full time and meeting up with some old friends. Tomorrow,
meeting with my good friend Dean Aliotto, who eventually he'll be on the
show talking about great docuseriies that he has coming out. I've seen enough of
it to tell you it's going to be fantastic. So meeting with Dean tomorrow,
heading back east, and then in November fifth heading out to Phoenix,
Arizona to go to the move On boot Camp Investigator boot Camp, and I'm
going to be filming. We're going to be doing a show from there as
well. So podcast UFO on the Road, that's what I am doing.
So the blog this week is called a UFO Photographed in the Italian alp Alps,
and that is back in nineteen fifty two, and I do believe the
bottom line it's a very interesting hoaxed image. Check out that blog by Charles
Lee. Are a great great material. As always, my guests this evening,
Alfred key Ros and I think I have talked about this a number of
times, but if you're new or just started listening to this show. I
had an insurance broker many years ago, I want to say it was about
mid nineteen nineties, and we were discussing. We were done doing our business
for an insurance policy, and he was walking around the house. We were
just discussing different things and he said I had an interesting I forget what he
said, an interesting position in the military during the Vietnam War. And so
I said, well, well, what did you do exactly? And he
said, I was on part of a team on the Air Force investigating UFOs
during the war. And at that time, of course, I didn't have
the show, and I knew a little bit about maybe one or two to
UFO sightings, but I didn't really know too much about UFOs in general,
not that I know anything now, but anyway, so I asked him more
and more about it, and it was a real It was a fascinating conversation.
And I had the question that everyone seems to have, and that is
what are they doing? What are they doing here if you think they're really
here? The question I did ask him is what does a government think they
are? And his answer was we are a Patrie dish And I thought that
was a fascinating answer, and I thought about it for a long time,
you know, years later, and when I started doing the show, I
tried to look him up. I remember his name was Tom Bowden and he
was in New Hampshire, I believe, and I've tried to find him because
I'd love to have him back on the show, and I've never been able
to find out anything on the internet whatever happened to him. But our guest
this evening is going to be talking about encounters during the Vietnam War, and
I'm really excited to talk to him about It's the first time that he is
in a public venue speaking about this, and thanks to kind of the ridicule
factor kind of dissipating in the UFO topic, he was willing to speak about
it. And he's the professor emeritus of Art and here he is, Alfred,
welcome to the show. Thank you so much, glad to be on
your Martin. Thank you. Yes, And you know, I want to
say thank you to the person that connected us and right now it's escaping my
mind. Who was it, Robert Fresconi. He was the field investigator who
was investigating a photograph I had taken in April of this year. Oh well,
we're definitely going to be talking about that too. So thank you Robert
so much for connecting us together. And so let's let's hear now. When
we were talking off air, you mentioned that it was you didn't even like
to admit that you were involved in the Vietnam War because of the stigma.
You know, you all came back from Vietnam, and you know you were
in the s s where I am right now, basically in the San Francisco
Bay area, and you had to keep it very quiet. Yeah. Well,
it was a period of time where there was a large anti war protest
going on enduring War. I got out of the service in nineteen sixty seven
and went right into art school and San Francisco Institute to study painting. And
you didn't bring it up if you wanted to date young ladies. You did
not mention the fact that you were a veteran. So for for a while
there I used to have a lie and just tell people. The people would
ask, because I was a little bit older than the universt of the freshman
and they would ask me, what do you Where were you? What do
you What did you do before school? So I would tell them that I
was studying at the University of Southern Nevada US, and then they were from
the West coast, and then you university. Then I would say I was
in Southern Nebraska, I was studying. That was the joke. Yeah,
So I No, I didn't mention it very very often that I was a
better I probably about nineteen eighty five I finally came out and asserted the fact
that I was. If he had not better, yeah, yeah. And
so I don't know if you want to jump right into the well, I
guess before we jump right into the topic, I mean into your encounters.
Um, I want to ask you, did you ever pay attention to the
UFL topic prior to the first encounter. Well, the only thing I remember
seeing it was in the movie theater. We saw a movie about the UFO.
The p fifty one pilot that crashed chasing the UFO, And it was
just one of those news thing, newsreel things that we saw in the movies.
That was about it. That's all I knew about you and that in
that sense it was And that was like I was about maybe in the fifth
sixth grade, so I didn't pay too much attention to it, you know,
And that was I was. That was a period of time when there
was all these uh flying saucer movies, creatures from outer space and all that
stuff goes going on. So we all thought it was all part of the
Hollywood thing, you know. Yeah, um so do you want to now
you had? Was it two? We're gonna be talking about your encounter that
you had. Incident happened that I was, that I part choke in.
That's the first incident happened. We were in route. We had just left
Midway Island when we were in route to Guam uh and I was on watch.
This is probably around the middle of January January. I figured it was
probably around the twenty fourth of January nineteen sixty six. I was a Quartermaster
third class QM three UH and the quartermaster on a ship Steers the ship into
the harbor out of the harbor alongside other ships, etc. And we do.
We're also the assistant navigator, so we navigate the ship and that's our
job when we're on watch, is to make sure that the ship is on
course, and also we keep the ship's log and we're also the ship's weathermen.
So on this night, I'm on the midwatch midnight to four on the
bridge. Crew consists of two lookouts, a radio man, the Officer of
the deck, which is a senior officer, the junior Officer of the deck,
which is a junior officer, the bosses made of the watch, the
messenger of the watch, the steersman or the hellsman, and the annunciator guy,
the guy that runs the engines forward and back. And then myself the
quartermaster of the watching. My job is to maintain the ship stays on course,
and I'm taking fixes about every or every four to five minutes. Every
every hour, we have to have a fix and we go from there.
So I had taken a break, and usually at this point in time,
the sky was incredibly clear. You get what it's called a dome effect in
the middle of the ocean. In other words, you have horizon to horizon
stars. So I would get my seven by fifty binoculars and I always had
around my neck and I was just aim them straight up ninety agree straight up
and just look and just like realize how infinitely small we were. And we
got through the space that we were looking at. And as I was looking
at but my bvernoculars, I was looking at the stars, and all of
a sudden, I noticed there was a v formation five little white dots moving
very slowly, so almost like a satellite. So I immediately chewed out the
lookouts. They were above me sitting, they're standing on top of the bridge.
So I chewed them out because you know, it's a quartermaster's third class
corporal in the army, and I chewed them out. I said, you
know, why didn't you report those lights? And they go one lights and
those up there, those end up there. Oh my god, yeah,
yeah, I said, you're supposed to report those right away. So I
informed the officer that we got a flight of aircraft, probably aircraft heading from
Guam, same way we are, because we were in a northwestern League direction
at the time, so we just you know, went through regular Ringamo role
where in other words center operating procedure. We call a CIC Combat Information Center
and say, hey, what do you guys got our radar? And he
said, you don't have nothing our radar. I said, well, said,
we're looking at five objects and there seemed to be moving along pretty high
up. They're all they're in a V formation heading the same direction we are,
so well, that's why we assumed there was maybe a flight of B
fifty twos. And then we were running why they had the landing lights on
or something, but any rate. So at that point, the radio the
radar right the radar man say, well, why don't you contact Guam.
We'll contact Guam see what they got coming in. So they contacted Guam Air
Force Base and Guam report it back right away, said we don't have anybody
coming in. We don't know what you're looking at. So they suggested at
that point suggests that they can't weak contact Tushikawa Air Force Base in Japan.
So the radar men contact count A car for Space and they say, well,
okay, we got these five things moving along and nobody seems to know
what they are, and touch Car Air for Space responded with a negative,
saying we had nothing in the air we had, we don't know what you
guys are looking at. So they recommended the third radar site, which is
in Hong Kong, and they said the British radar. British have the smongest
radar in this area. Why don't you contact them, see what they've got
coming in? Okay, So we contact the British. Nothing. We said,
we don't know what you guys said, look at the same We're getting
the same response all the time. So when this time we're all looking at
these guys, we're all there were the brenoculars. Now, we kept thinking
that the only they kept going straight and just kept going, we would have
just forgotten about it and locked his five aircraft. And that was ben In.
But these were moving the law and then all of a sudden they made
a ninety degree turn I mean literally where I'm bam an l and then and
then just took off, I mean just just they just vanished. I mean,
and we were I was yelling dead reckoning, dead breckoning. So I
was looking towards the direction they went, and they were gone. So at
that point we all kind of lowered our binocuters slowly and just kind of looked
at each other, and I just looked at the the operations officer who was
the officer of the old d the officer of the dead senior officer who was
a full lieutenant, and I said to him and said, um, how
do I log that in? What was that? MOP? Twenty thirty?
What speed was that? That was a ninety degree turn with no hesitation?
They just boop boop did an l? I mean there was no arching of
a turn aircraft for the arc. These guys ninety degrees, just a shift
changing direction and then just took off. They just like vaporiz, just like
vaporized. They were gone. So I just looked at the officer of the
deck and I said, how do I lock that in? I said,
And he said, gentlemen, I believe you call those UFOs. So at
that point I said, do I have permission to log it as such?
And he said, log it in as you saw it, Quartermaster, And
I said, I will log it into. I saw it. Thanks these
for five objects making a ninety return and then going at a fantastically high speed.
And the only thing. The other thing the officer said at that point
was gentlemen, let us hope they are whoever they are, they are on
our side. So that was it. So we logged. I logged it.
In the funny part about this situation is I was the guy that when
a ship's log was filled. I was a guy that had a key to
the ship's log blocker, which was located in the so of the destroyer that
I was on, and we would always put the logs in there and mark
them the date when they spilled out and not everything else. So I went
into after I put the log away, after the log was filled and put
them away, I went back into the ship's log because I wanted to take
that page out. In other words, I wanted a souvenir because I knew
whatever we had witnessed was something very spectacular and something very very unusual, and
it's something that it was starting to alter my consciousness about what I was doing
and what we were doing and things like that. So when I went to
go pilfer the page of that log, the log was gone. Someone beaten
to so, and I wasn't about to go asking questions. You know,
hey, who took that log? So I figure and had to be an
officer or someone else that had the key. I was the only enlisted man
had a key to that locker, and I believe the executive officer and another
and the navigator, which was an officer, had the key to that to
that locker. So somebody the whole the whole log journal was gone, the
whole book, the whole book. Wow. And when something like that happens,
isn't that really like something major? I mean, well, we uh,
we kept quiet about it. And the reason we kept quiet we were
afraid of riddigo and and we didn't want to have any anybody riddy kalinus and
you know the term did you see any little green man too? That kind
of would would come up. I believe I told one other navigator, one
other assistant navigator about it, and he just laughed. So I figured,
okay, we gotta zip it. But I mean, there was let's see,
there are two lookouts, the boats made of the watch, the two
officers, the messenger of the watch and myself and a radio man or the
witnesses to this. Yeah, and so when this thing you're you're you're kind
of unsure how far it is an elevation, how high it is an elevation.
We figured these were at satellite height. We figured, and we knew
about satellites because we were aware of the Echo satellite. Because are you okay,
go ahead? Well my question is echo satellite as a ruse for officers
that were learning how to use sextic. Now there satellite was going to be
over our head. But let me ask you this. Would you would a
radar go to that height, to that leveled elevation that I don't know.
I did have to ask a radar. We had a three hundred range,
three hundred mile range, long range rare. I would believe them swingerland mind,
Wow, that tells anything. Here's a question that came in a chat.
When the lights shot off, was the point of the V pointed in
the direction of the movement? And that's a very good question. I was
pointed in the direction of the what of the V? The forward V like
an aerial aero dynamically point of the V. I mean they literally just went
boom and the V always stayed. The V to the front shifted just literally
shifting like that. Yeah, yeah, they just I mean, God,
I have to tell you a funny thing that did happen in nineteen seventy seven.
I went to go see the movie Star Wars. I was living in
Providence, Rhode Island. We went to see the movie Star Wars for the
first time when it came out, and there's a scene where Hans Solo puts
his faceship into hyperdrive or yeah. Well when he did that, I reacted
and I out loud, and people in the audience really did shut out because
I I freaked. I just like, oh my god, that's what these
UFOs did in nineteen sixty six. They're getting them too hyperspace and they were
body gonna shit down. And I was just so excited because that was what
it looked like to me, Like these UFOs, So they made the ninety
returned. They just they just they didn't. They didn't. They just didn't
turn and God keep going. They were they turned and took and gone and
they were gone, I mean boot banished. Yeah. I just would freaked
us all out because we just, like I said, we all just kind
of throwed our binoculars really slowly. Engines looked at each other like, Okay,
did you just see what I just saw? That kind of thing,
you know, yeah, and so um, your other encounter was at close
range and might do I have that right? Yes? Correct? Uh?
And that was a little bit different encounter. We by this time we were
off the coast of Vietnam. We we were maybe two three miles four miles
five miles off the coast of Vietnam. We were conducting shore bombarment off of
the Quang Tree I believe it is the area we were operating in. Were
just below the The DMZ line was seventeen parallel, so we were moving back
and forth awaiting a warders from an aircraft. There was a spotterplane flying over
the area, the ground area over the South Vietnam area, Qualm Tree area.
We were waiting for shore bombarment targets. And as we were cruising along,
I was on the bridge. I don't know why. I don't remember
if I wasn't on wash so I was probably conducting my normal duties on the
bridge going around, and we weren't We were maybe in a condition three battle
stations, so I wasn't at a battle station now there was. We weren't
at full battle stations when one of the all of a sudden, bright day,
it was sunny, hot, humid. It is like about April nineteen
sixty six, when all of a sudden, the lookouts started yelling, there's
a ball in the water, and there's something in the water of a ball
in the water, silver ball in the water. And this is about a
oh, maybe one hundred seventy five one hundred feet safe, I mean a
hundred yards seventy five yards in front of us. So so the ship slows
down. We slowed the ship slowed down, and the captain has brought is
called to the bridge. So the captain comes to the bridge and he says,
what's going on. He says, there there's the lookouts report there's a
silver ball in the water ahead of us. So the captain said, owners
immediately turned the ship off. So everything, all the systems go off,
and the ship's engines sturned off. Everything turned off. Pretty soon. It
gets really eerie because it's really silent. And then the captain tells these two
officers get into the safe, and the safe was under the chart desk.
So I had a chart desk where I in the pilothouse where I, you
know, work on the chart where we get our fix us and so we
had the chart in our in our chart desk. So they opened the safe
and they bring out this huge book, this huge notebook. I mean,
and it says warsaw warsaw pack weapons and then it says top secret across it.
And they said Kiros that we all went by our last name. So
they said, get us look away. You only have a secret clearance.
This is a top secret thing. So I had to turn my head away
and not look at the book, but you know, I could look at
it, and they were. They were looking through minds the mind mine area,
so they're looking see what kind of mind it is, because we thought
at that point we thought it was a mind because bobbing below the surface and
we're just Bobby. So at that point, the captain says, we're not
going to get near. Back the ship up slightly, so we backed the
ship up. By this time, you know the residual. You know,
when we turn the ship up, we're still moving. So by this time
captain says, you know, we got it back to the ship up because
we were getting closer to this object. So the captain and we don't want
to deal with this nonsense. We don't want to deal with this thing.
We don't know what it is, so we call the helicopter. We had
an aircraft carrier in the area. I forget which aircraft. We're operating with
maybe three aircraft carriers at the time. I one of the main ones we're
operating with was the Enterprise. Well, speaking of names, here's a question
here. What was the name of that ship again, the one you were
on. I was on the USS Winterburn DD six eighty four Widerberg Wedderburn Winterburg.
Okay, here's thank you. Oh there it is right there at Wedderberg.
I got it burn. Yeah, it's a Fletcher Class one hundred Fletcher
Class Destorer. We still had our five gun mounts. Nice, you had
that book handy like that. Wow. Yeah, that's the yearbook I worked
on for the cruise. It's a cruise book. So consequently we all the
helicopter comes in. By this time, we got the helicopter pilot on our
radio, so he's trucking. We can hear him. So I started filming.
I got by. I had an eight millimeter camera, a regular eight
millimeter camera. So I started filming a little bit, getting it going,
and the captain turns and sees me where the cavity says, put that thing
away here I go, yes, sir, I put the camelboys. So
I got no footage of anything, because I just barely started when it's Tony
saw me. And so the helicopter comes, goes in front of us and
lowers a cable or some kind of a device down a long cable, and
it's some kind of sonar device, and he's describing it to us. He's,
you know, over the over the radio. We're listening on the bridge.
We're listening to the broadcast on the bridge, and he's saying it's a
smooth ball, silver six feet diameter, no scenes, no markings, no
rivets. It is totally smooth. So he says it doesn't seem to be
doing anything. So I said, so I'm looking at this point, I'm
looking at the chart trying to figure you know, and we had we were
off the coast, so there's a lot of shoals and weird. The ground
is kind of strange. In fact, we had to use some old French
charts that showed sandy showls and things like that. So we're concerned about not
running the ground a little bit. So at this point, the helicopter is
lowering this thing and he see not getting anything out of the cable in doors,
he raises the cable up and he said we're gonna try something, so
we're like, what's it gonna do. Also, we realized he uh kind
of puts the helicopter to one side a little bit and the side gunner opens
fire. So by this time we're seeing tracers flying off of this thing.
So we're ducking down on the bulwark from the ship of the bridge. We're
like, whoa, this guy's shooting. This guy doesn't realize. These tracers
are flying all over the place, and then all of a sudden, the
helicopter piler sells you, yelling it took off, it took off, it
took off, and he's the helicopter goes into a spin and flies kind of
like in its direction over where it took off. So the captain and immedity
orders turned the ship back on sound general quarters. This is not a drill.
We're going to general quarters. Set the ASW anti Submarine Warfare team in
action. So there's the bong bong bong. We're going to general quarters.
We start chasing this thing. We don't even know what it is, so
we think it's maybe some kind of transport. At this point, they're discussing
some kind of transponder device from a submarine. So we got our sonar going.
We're looking for a submarine of some kind. We searched for seventy two
hours, which a standard operating procedure. Nothing zero, nothing, No submarines,
no nothing. There was nothing in the area. It was clear water.
So we don't know what the heck it was and what it was doing
there and how it took off and who pulled it, because it sounded like
somebody had pulled it, pulled it under water. So that's why we thought.
We thought it was a silver ringe because it went down when it so
and we never I never saw it, we never, we never really saw
it because it was you know, under just under the surface of the water.
The lookouts just saw the shimmer of this this thing. Now we knew
what minds looked like because we had encountered in World War two mine and had
one of our sharpshooters exploded. Now, when this thing took off, was
their sonar in use or anything like that. Yeah, we turned everything on
at that point when that thing took off, our sonar, was our sonar
operators or everything was on back on. I mean it was like instantaneously everything
went back on the ship. We started the ship off everything, yeah,
if we went. And the only question I had was the fact that the
water we were in a kind of a shallow area. And I inventured to
one of the officers, I don't know if a submarine can operate in this
water, this kind of shallow area. We're off the coast, We're not
We're not only in deep deep water. So that was the only question I
had. And for this to this day, I have no idea what it
was and it was, it didn't and I almost kind of forgot about it
a little bit, and I even brought it up with a former ship made
of mine and asked him do you remember the zilver wall, isn't it?
And he said noah, no, it says yeah, because it was something
that you know, we didn't see anything, so we figured it's a sight
unseen. Wow, well, that that's something else. I wish there could
have been some data showing, you know, with the speed that this thing
had um um hang on just when sure, Yeah, I just I wish
there were some data where they could have seen the speed of this thing traveling
underwater. You know, we don't know. The helicopter piled was the one
that saw it. Took off safe ahead of us. So were you we
were actually watching at the time, Yes, it was. And did you
see any wake in the water, any movement in the water. And the
reason I'm bringing that up, and I think it's your your answer is interesting
because other accounts of what they call USOS unidentified submergible, submerged object or submergible
whatever it is, is that there's trans medium movement without causing disturbance, which
is very very strange. Like, for instance, when these things are seen
to go in or out of the water, there's no splash, and they're
also seen and I'm not saying this is what you saw. I don't know
what you saw, but we don't know either. When they travel underwater at
high speeds. It almost doesn't even make any sense how they can do that
in in, out of in and out of the different mediums. Um you
know, it's just like the I never got the words of the helicopter product
because you know, it just he sounded scared. I mean, he sounded
like he was, you know, yelling, it took off. It took
off, and it was like whoa, and he was turning his helicopter was
you know, going into us like a spin and we're like, well,
what what what does he mean? It took off? We didn't see anything
take off, so yeah, so it it almost sounded like something like somebody
had pulled it on from underwater or it went on its own. And we
don't know we I honestly have to say, I really don't know whether it
was pulled or went or it went on its own. But whatever it was,
it went underwater and it took off. Can you can you explain again
what exactly? Who? Who fired on this thing? Someone fired on it.
It's like kind of fired on it. Yeah, And we couldn't believe
it. We just you know, oh, sudden, you just opened up
the doorgunner just all of a sudden just started shooting. And like I said,
there was tracers are flying off in the air, and it was like
and all of a sudden, we like freaked out a little bit. But
I remember ducking down behind the ballwork, like what is this guy doing?
Well, it's a wonder it's a wondering that they would do that. You're
only seventy five yards or so away. And if this thing blew up,
I mean, it seems like it could have caused some damage to the helicopter
as well. I mean, it's kind of a strange reaction, and I
wonder, you know, this was uh we were off the coast of Vietnam,
so you know, yeah, I guess, I guess you had to
take all the precautions. And so it's basically it sounds like he was if
he thought it was a mind, he was trying to blow it up.
Yeah, you know. So you know the other thing is when they were
looking through the Warsaw Pack book, there was nothing of that description in the
book. And they let you know that. They let you know that.
Officers explain to explain to the captain, there's nothing in the book. There's
no no smooth silver ball in the book. Yeah. Well, the Warsaw
Pact nations do not have a silver ball, smooth silver ball with those seams
or those spikes or anything, just a smooth silver bawl six foot diamever.
There was no such thing. Unless there was a new secret weapon. We
don't know. We you know, we're speculating now, Yeah, yeah,
well there's there's there's so much speculation when it comes to this um and you
know, it wouldn't be surprising if you told me the thing rose up out
of the water either, you know, I mean that that would have been
quite spectacular. And and so you search for seventy two hours in the direction
lettered operating procedures. Seventy two our search. So for three days we chased
nothing, and radar had nothing, and we kept going in circles literally zig
zagging and doing all kinds of maneuvers thinking where this thing might have gone.
And nothing. We turned up nothing. And what was this? What was
this speculation? Submarine transponder device and with something submarine belonged to a submarine.
Oh, I seen it pulled it back down. Yeah, that's what they
thought. I mean, because no nobody was in this, you know,
that was the I mean, we we're talking, you know, normal military
kind of thinking. You know, Okay, you got a ball that's holding
in the water. Who's ball? While it has to be long to somebody,
it must belong to another another ship for something. Yeah, we just
didn't know wortship. Yeah. Yeah, So it was one of those mysteries.
You know, you're left scratching your head and you go like, okay,
what's next. Yeah, that's about it. And uh and to this
day, we don't know what we saw and then now again now with what's
happening today with these little these uh spirit spheres that are going into the water,
I'm sorry to wonder was that one of those things or well, what
I don't know right right? Um, there, I had a friend,
um he's been on the show many times, Mark d' antonio, and he
was on an excursion on a submarine um as a guest because of some work
that he did that was related to it. And they had they had something
moving that they called a fast mover that was they already had a term for
it. It was going over two hundred knots and underwater and you figured this
is I think it was he said it was in the nineties or maybe early
two thousands. You know, we didn't have any technology that would do that
speed. Yeh. You know you think the fastest ship at that time in
nineteen sixty six with the USS Enterprise, yeah carrier, yeah whatever. They
would launch their planes and there was areas in the in the tunk and golf
where there was no win, so the aircraft carrier had to create win.
At one time, we chased that carrier. He singled back to us,
Mike speed sixty plus knots. We're going twenty five almost thirty knots, and
we were popping rivets. Literally, I was on a World War two destroyer.
We're moving through the water in thirty knots. Our ship was taking was
rumbling, we were in a rumble. And by the time we caught off
to the aircraft carrier, they were already launched, their aircraft were coming back.
I mean we were. They were going plus sixty knots on the water.
So it takes some I remember reading an article one time about um boating,
you know, like power boating. So for every knot, it takes
so much more power. And the higher you go out, like if you
want your your your motor boat to go eighty knots, it takes an enormous
amount of power once you get over like forty knots to make it go higher.
So if you can picture something that has submerged traveling at two over two
hundred knots, I mean, it just seems like it would take uh,
you know, and it takes an enormous amount of pressure around, you know,
uh to make something like that happen. A question that Richard has here
the tracer bullets were actually ricocheting off the object. Is that what you that's
so they were shot with tracer bullets. Well every everyone other I think,
I forget what the what they Paul is loaded. I didn't know how there
was loaded. I mean we saw tracers and there. I mean, there
wasn't like a steady stream of tracer. This was like maybe every five or
six rounds or something. In other words, every once in a while you
see a tracer shoot off. That's what's scared us. So we're starting to
see the tracers because you know, normally, if you know, maybe I
know, we carried fifty color machine guns at our ship, and I think
there was maybe every six round as a tracer or something like that. I
forget the military tournament because I never had to fire the machine guns. That
wasn't my job. Yeah yeah, well, so these things happened to you,
And what was it like, um, you know behind the scenes,
like did for instance, let's go back to the first encounter and was like
in the mess hall or whatever was her talk, you know, like,
hey, what do you think bring it up? We can bring it up.
Nobody was on the watch brought it up because I think we were afraid
of ridicule. Yeah, one of the things that you had to be aware
of what you're on a small, well small ship, but you got a
crew of two hundred and fifty men or just destroyer, and like I said,
it's a Flesher class or twenty one hundred class destroyer. And there was
a lot of harassment all the time. I mean, if somebody got a
Dear John letter, everybody in the ship knew it, and you and that
poor guy had for them for about a month until somebody else. You can
harass somebody else. I mean, there was always that kind It was almost
a rite of passage kind of thing that you say, so yeah, I
mean I for example, for myself, I wrote a letter to my girlfriend
and then I threw it away and to put it in the garbage scan.
My mistake was throwed it in the garbage scan, because then it was pulled
out by the other and they was they all had a section of the letter.
It was later loud in front of all the proven. Oh that's the
kind of thing I'm talking about. That's the kind of talking about that's so
terrible, you know. So my reaction to when they were reading my letter,
I responded by saying where'd you find the letter in the garbage? Yeah,
that's where you guys were in the garbage learn how to throw it back
or else? Yeah? Yeah, what's the biggs in your bath? Yeah?
Yeah, that was just form for the rest of this this uh,
this question is I don't know if you even know it. These M fourteen
tracer of fifty caliber. I have no idea what the Yeah, well,
um, all right, gone back to the first it was a fifty caliber.
I do not think it was fifty caliber, okay, because the machine
gun is a pretty heavy machine gun. It's about eighty five pounds. And
the reason I know that is that I one of my jobs when we went
to general quarters. We had a fifty color machine gun that was strapped to
the side of our chart house. In other words, are where we worked
on charts, our chart room, and my job when we went to general
quarters was to take that fifty color machine gun that was strapped to the wall,
throw it over my shoulder, go up the ladder to the bridge,
had to the gunners mates who were on top of the bridge, and they
had a machine gun mount on top of the bridge. Wow that sounds those
things that are probably pretty heavy too, eighty five pounds amazing poles. Yeah.
Yeah, so when you're looking at this, let's talk about the first
encounter. Um, yeah, it's amazing that you just happened to be looking
up. And it was the thing I it was the way I relaxed,
you know, once I did a fix and and and showed the officer of
the deck where we were in the position of the ship, how we were
doing. Did we need to change course? Paul? Was our drift and
you know, all these kind of things that you're doing when you're navigating.
What kind of drift do you have? Do we have a following sea?
Do we only going against the sea? Are we doing good time? Or
are we going to arrive when we're supposed to ride? Because we were our
job was to rendezvous with some other destroyers before we pulled into into buns and
we could pull in as a in a column, so that was what we
were kind of operating by ourselves. So in points of relaxing, you know,
you would I would just get my predocatives and look straight up and just
I really enjoyed that. It was a lot of fun just looking up and
seeing all the stars, just a just an incredible view. And if anybody's
ever seen that, you understand what I'm talking about when you get the what
it's called the dome effect. Yeah, being under a dome. Yeah yeah,
so moving boy, you spotted Yeah, I did a I was doing
other other shows and I actually had the pleasure of meeting and doing an interview
with a gentleman that was at the time I think someone else has beat the
record. It's not a record you want to beat, and that is to
be how long he was by himself in a life raft, you know,
trying to survive until he was found. And I forget how many days it
was. It was all many, many, many days. And so after
I did the interview, of course, I had nothing to do with UFOs.
It was completely about his survival, which was an amazing story all on
its own. There was a book written about it, Adrift it was called.
But anyway, So I said, hey, by the way, you
know, I do a show in UFOs too, And I said, you
were out at sea in the dark every night, and you know you could
see all the stars and everything. Did you ever see anything weird? And
he goes yes, And so I go like, can you talk about you
know, I try to get more information. He's, well, you know,
maybe another time I'll talk about it, you know, that type of
thing. But so, yeah, you're out there, you have the vast
sky, and you know if something is going to happen. It's kind of
like you think about commercial pilots, you know, they have when they're up
in the sky, they have if it's clear, you know, you can
see a big range hundreds of miles in all directions, you know. So
yeah, there's no way to tell exactly how the high this thing is.
Um. The radar thing is a little um murky to me because I'm not
sure. Did you say that they can see within three hundred miles? Is
that what you say? It's a surface radar, surface radar? Yeah,
okay. Radars on the ship are are four? Well, they had one,
they had a small they have to. We have two radar devices on
the vans, a small one on the very tall and then a large search
radar right below that one. And I don't know what they're full function.
I know that the bottom one had a range of three hundred but it was
a surface radar that other words, they couldn't aim it up now the other
This is why it was suggested to to contact WOM Air Force based to see
who they had coming in. Yeah, we thought it was a flight of
B fifty twos, you know. Yeah, I mean that was that issue
reaction. And I mean we were all casual about it. It's five five
aircraft up there, you know, and must be and we were, you
were casual, very quiet, you know, it must be a flight fifty
two. Well, and then and then you know, they see, I
see what you got, you know, and then a then it change,
you know, the all of a sudden, the focus started changing. It
also when when WOM sent to check with Tachikawo Air Force basis, something's going
on here. And uh, like I said, we went through three radar
sites or three radar stations, and they said, we about what you're looking
at. So the three I'm just hang in here just a little bit on
the radar. So the different radar stations. What I'm trying to get at
is if there was an object up at possibly satellite height because satellites can go
way way high, but um but possibly at say lower satellite height in elevation,
are there radars that could capture something like that. That's what I was
trying to get at you know, you're asking the wrong guy. And I
don't know. We were just following procedure. This is the standard operating procedure.
You call one person, they say, no, check this person.
Okay, we'll check with that person. Yeah, okay, persons check out
that person. Okay, we'll check out that person. That's what we were
doing. We were just checking off what we were going through, the procedures
and uh and it's you know, and we're thinking like a US military ship.
We're we're not thinking at very cast. We were at first, we
were taking a casually because it just looked like an aircraft, aircraft flying along.
But when the last radar said, we don't know what you're looking at,
that's when we all were looking at him. That's when we all had
our monoculars looking at them. And that's when and the sensation, I don't
know, maybe I maybe it's just my own feeling, but the sensation was
it picked up that we were looking at him or something, and they decided
to change course all of a sudden. Yeah. I mean, I've never
seen anything maneuver like that in my life right this day. I've never seen
anybody that can be moving along and then make a ninety return without hesitation and
just oh gone. And I mean they were gone like that. Would you
say that they were gone like in a streak or were they gone like vanish
both streak advantage. Yeah, they just like zoomed out. I mean the
minute they made that turn, they were they took off. I mean they
just like zep. And that's what I started yelling, dead breaking dead,
assuming that they would appear at a certain direction. Dead wreckting means you're you're
following, You're trying to follow their direction. So I was yelling deadrectoring,
deadrecting, and we all kind of aimed our predoctors where we thought they might
be next. But they were gone. They were totally totally gone. Yeah,
so did this thing? Did this thing fly in the same structure of
V? Like? You never saw that change? Like what I'm trying to
ask you. It looked like possibly like a triangular shape or possibly a V
shape. It was a V. They were they were a vat like this.
So it's one, two, three, four, five lights again one
point and two of the side. Yeah. Now here's here's something someone called
in one time. I'm imposed a very good question, and that why would
they have lights? You know, I mean, I'm I'm not I'm not
asking that question, but I'm just saying that is a very good question.
If if whatever it is traveled whatever it is to get here, and it's
like way up there, why would they bother to have lights? They don't
need lights. But but obviously these things seem to have lights most of the
time there were like five dots. They don't. Yeah, it's almost like
whatever it is is not afraid that someone is seeing it, and it's almost
like here I am, you can see and I you know, I think
one of the this is what like that? Yeah, well I can tell
you're an artist if you can yep. I can tell you are an artist
if you can draw that quickly and that evenly. Well, it's it was
embedded in my mind. I mean really it after that incident, I was
I have to admit to you, I was very pro pro navy, pro
government, pro everything. And when I was in the Navy, I mean
we were, you know, we were on our way to our This was
why I was on my second tour. We were on our second cruise to
the Vietnam area, Vietnmese area, So we were very Uh, should I
say positive about what we were doing. I mean we felt very positive.
There was no we did have a one conscious objector on the ship and he
jumped off the ship. In a serious situation. He jumped off the ship.
Yeah, like he was gone forever. No, no, no,
we could come up. We had Oh god, well, I'll tell you
the situation. We were assisting Vietnamese marines landing. Vietnamese Marines were conducting a
landing on this beach area and we were to provide gunfire support for them,
and so we're waiting for I'm on the bridge at the time, but it
was in my battle station. At that point. We switched our battle station.
The navigators were always switching their battle station. Sometimes would be on the
bridge, would be after steering and being the secondary Cohn. We were always
moving around and just to give ussel was a little bit of variety. So
this time I was on the bridge and we were conducting this uh these yetting,
these marines landed boats and stuff, and we were going to go gunfire
support. While we're waiting for the orders for to open fire, we keep
hearing somebody yelling, I am a conscience as objector, I am against the
war Diet. Now we're looking around. Hell is that who the hell's yelling?
Finally somebody said, look up on the mask. We looked up at
the mask and there's this guy at the very top of the mask. And
we're going slow because we're on gunfire support. So the ship is yawing back
and forth, so the mask is going like this. So I'm thinking,
or that guy jumps the wrong time, he's gonna hit the deck. But
you know, he's gonna have to wait till the ship's yaws over the ocean.
Then he's gonna have to do his jump. And that's the jump too.
That's a very high I thought this. You know, I hope he
jumps in deep water, hits deep water because there's a lot of shoals.
We were in an area and these shows are marked with bamboo sticks sticking out.
The fisherman. The Vietnamese fisherman had the sticks STI get out of the
water, so we have to maneuver away from him. And so he jumped
and we had to call off what we were doing to rescue him because now
we had a mad overboard, right, So we rescued him, brought him
aboard the ship. People were really angry with him, some intended violence s
towards him because we were in a combat situation and here's this guy jumping off
And we've been waiting for this combat situation for so long and finally here we
are getting into action and this guy disrupts it by jumping off the ship.
So the captain brought they brought him up to the bridge. He's soaking.
What the captain looks at him, He says, you're lucky that the Congress
has not declared war because if anything we would have this was desertion under fire,
we would have just shot him. Jeez, wow under fire. Wow.
Going back to here's the question, has your guest had a sighting sense?
We will talk about that later after the break. We're going into the
break here in just a couple of minutes, and it's a five minute break.
Um. But uh, now, you did I hear you say that
there was you knew someone else that also had an encounter during the war.
Yeah. One of the one of the navigators, told me that he actually
came down and woke me up. He was on watch, and he said
they were looking at the ground because you know, we'd watched the action at
night we were we could watch the action at night. You know, tray
is going back and forth, you know who runs the board. And he
said that there was an amber light that flich went back and forth, was
going back and forth an amber light, and then that the amber light shot
straight up and took off disappeared. So I said amber light. So I
said, well, there's only according to the US Navy, there's only two
kinds of things, two kinds of vehicles that would have amber lights. One
is a submarine and the other one is a hovercraft. Hovercraft don't shoot straight
up. Yeah, so he and he said it was the weirdest thing,
man. It was. We keep going back and forth, back and forth
really fast, and then it only it just went chow straight up. And
I looked me up for that, so was up. Oh so this happened
on the same ship or another ship that you were on the same ship,
same the same the same time. Yeah, just start to like question,
like what the heck is going on here? I mean we did. And
you know, I had a roommate who was first air cav and he told
me about a time they were out in the field. Because I told the
story about the UFL thing and then he said, you know, and the
funny thing is, we had provided a gunfire support for this, for this
uh, this first air calve. In fact, we had provided a shotgun
support. In other words, they were driving along what is highway wanted Vietnam,
and we were going along the water providing gunfire support protecting him. And
he remembered the number on my ship and wrote to me. It says,
it's your ship number six eighty four, and I wrote back to him,
Yeah, that's my ships. You guys were providing gun fires, providing a
shotgun for us. You were writing shotgun for us, And I'm like,
wow, incident into the incident. So here he was talking, we were
talking. This is after we got other servants. He was my roommate when
I was going to our school and we were talking and he said, you
know what a weird thing happened to us? And I said, where was
that? He said, we were out of the field and was at night,
and all of a sudden, this big black thing went over us,
real slow, and he said, and the pressure, he said, all
of a sudden all of us just followed us just lay down, Oh my
god, and it just like went over us and then it just passed.
It was I can't believe you're saying this because it was a black it was
a dark black thing. It went over us, he said. He said,
we literally had to lead down. Yes, this is this is really
fascinating because I have a guest from Australia that is going to be talking,
you know, briefly on my show about something very similar. She told me
this story about God. She told me the story about nine years ago that
her and her grandmother were in their garden in this black triangle floated very slowly
over them and made the pressure like they had to go lay down on the
ground. Wo yeah. Yeah, you have to realize this is all the
same year sixty six. Wow. Well, we have to go. It's
time for us to go into commercial break. And it's a treat for those
of you on YouTube and also on Facebook watching, because we have a five
minute clip about a UFO sighting that happened outside of Detroit and it's pretty interesting.
So for those of you over at KGr A Radio, we'll be right
back right after this five minute break. All right, So I'm with Mark
Richard and he had a sighting outside of the building you're in right now you're
working right now. Yes, I'm actually I live and work in the building.
I'm the head of maintenance for the apartment building. So my sighting actually
happened back in two thousand and eight. I don't have the exact date,
but I think it was somewhere late October early November of two thousand and eight.
And can you explain exactly something caught your eye out the window. Yes,
I was working at the time. I think it was maybe around two
pm or so, and it was a bright sunny day, not a cloud
in the sky. Something kept reflecting light into my eye. Every time I
would look up from my work, something out the windows reflecting this light into
my eye. After about the third or fourth time of this happening, I'm
getting a little annoyed, and I walked over to the window. This is
the old historic building. We have huge windows. Walked over to the window,
and I'm looking at this thing. I can see it. I'm in
downtown Detroit. I've been here for several years, so I'm used to seeing
traffic copts. I thought it was a traffic coptor. It looked like it
was over the expressway out there, maybe like a mile and a half two
miles out. It was out there little ways. So I lay eyes on
this thing, and pretty much as soon as I do, it starts moving
towards kind of my general direction. And I'm still thinking at the time this
is a helicopter. It's annoying with the clip that this thing moved towards me.
I'm starting to second guess now is this a helicopter or not, because
this thing was covering this mile and a half two miles very quickly. Within
seconds it was. It was outside of my building and slowly coming towards me
to the point where this craft I've got I'm now in full view of a
craft that is hovering outside of my I'm the thirteenth story of an eighteen story
building. This thing's hovering outside of my window. It starts to rotate up
so that it's now sort of ninety degrees to me where I'm looking directly at
the bottom of this craft. It's got three large white lights on the bottom
and a smaller red light in the center that's kind of pulsing, And this
thing starts to rotate clockwise and the three white lights start flashing a pattern,
and it's rotating, and the pattern's going a little bit faster and a little
bit faster, and then the outside edges of these white lights start to flash
in colors, so now I'm getting every color of the rainbow. It reminded
me one of those Simon games from back in the eighties where you try to
hit hit the colors. It was something like that. As it's rotating and
it's speeding up to by the time this thing was at full board, it
was just a blur of light, like the most vivid, bright, colorful
light. And at that point I kind of felt like I was being sort
of mesmerized or being kind of drawn in mentally by this thing, and it
made me pause, and it made me sort to put almost a mental block
right there where I said, hold on, what's what's going on here?
This is obviously very strange. I've never seen anything like this before. And
when I did that, when I kind of put a mental stop to it
and kind of put the brakes on things mentally, the flashing lights stopped.
The craft slowly rotated back down to an upright position, and it just kind
of floated off to my right hand side and kind of floated around the building
to where I couldn't see it anymore. I was expecting to see this thing
shoot off into space or something, and never did it. It just kind
of floated off slowly. I tried to keep my eye on it for as
long as I could, and once I lost sight of it, I actually
ran down to the street level to try to get outside and get my eyes
back on it. But I had lost it at that point and it was
gone, Wow, well we're already up to four minutes, so that's okay,
and that's all right. We'll be r a little bit longer of a
commercial that day. We'll run at four minutes and thirty seconds. Bill always
likes it over at KGr A when I can run longer. But we're out
of time now, Mark, thank you so much. That's a really interesting
sighting. Very all right, welcome back. Bill probably really liked that when
I said that they liked the long breaks over at KGr A Radio for the
commercials. But anyway, back with my guest Alfred, thank you Alfred again
for talking about this. It's always I always enjoy people that have never talked
about this before, and it's something new and fresh, some thing very interesting.
Actually, the last encounter you told me about this black thing and then
the pressure and those people like push them to the ground. I think that's
so fascinating because you're going back to nineteen sixty six and the woman that will
be on the show, I think we're going back to the late nineteen seventies
when she was young, and so these things. You know, people can
say all they want about you know, secret military craft, black projects,
things like that. But did could they possibly possibly have had that technology starting
in nineteen sixty six that would never be used by us in any type of
situation? You know, what are your thoughts on that? Well? I
don't know. It just makes me wonder. I mean I have read quite
a bit about the German technology at World War Two and what they were working
on, and of course, you know there's a speculations of the Germans that
were developing the UFO, and they read some accounts where they actually flew a
craft and I believe it was in Prague, Czechoslovaka, and they flew a
craft and it went up to two thousand miles per hour. But in all
speculation, we really don't go if that really happened, because they destroyed all
the records of that of that craft, because they didn't want the Russians to
get a hold of it or something like that. And then there are some
people that believe the UFOs that were signed in nineteen forty six, the first
UFOs and where the term flying saucer was used by that photographer, by that
pilot in Washington. I believe, yeah, yeah, and they that there's
some connection with British intelligence that was working in that area of British Columbia.
I don't know. There's a lot of things I've read, and I've always
read these things with a grain of salt, you know. I'm kind of
like, Okay, you have to and even when I look at a photograph,
I wonder about it. I have to show you what started this same
with ruff On And I was back in April this year. I'm an artist,
and I saw a cloud that had this incredible yellowish tinge to it and
I said, wow, that is a really wild yellow and it's so pale.
I wonder if I can catch it with a camera. So I went
and grabbed my camera and I shot a picture of it. Can I show
you the picture? Oh? Yes, a matter of fact, you can
send the picture to me and I will put it in the show notes permanently.
Go ahead and hold that up right. Now, here's the picture I
took of the cloud. Yeah, I didn't notice anything until I downloaded the
camera and saw this little black speck. I don't know if you can see
it. I can see it. Yep, you got to hold it up
more. But yeah, and I saw that little black speck, and I
go to, what the heck is that? I said that was? I
didn't see that. I didn't see it when I took the photograph, I
didn't see it. The photograph was shot at five six of a second,
I mean five six vocal uh. Opening was five to six of them,
and the speed was one five hundred of a second. I took two photographs,
this one and then a shot. I zoomed back and took another shot.
By the second shot, the object is gone. So here's a close
up of it. I can't see it. It's gotta come up, gotta
come up. Here you go. So um, I so when you weren't
When the investigator came um, the person that connected us two together, did
did he rule out I know this sounds really bizarre, but did he rule
out either an insect or bird? No? In fact, they called it.
They called it a blur foe b l u r f blurbful. I
said, I have never heard of that term blur foe. And they sent
me a long explanation of what a blurfoe was. It could be a bird,
an insect, uh. And I looked at the photograph and I said,
that's got to be a really large insect. Because that thing was further
away than the cloud. It almost seemed to be in the same distance as
the cloud. And both Robert Frestoni and I both noticed that there was a
kind of a little trail, a very very very slight trail behind this object.
And I said, I don't know what what I photographed. I didn't
see it. I never saw the object. This thing was between second so,
you know, beyond my ice feed. So and that's what started this
whole thing. And so once we started, I met with mister I met
over the phone mister prest Go. We started talking about it, and then
he asked me if I had any other any experience, other experiences, and
I told him about my Davy experiences and then he told you and that's how
we got that's where we are now. Yeah, I think, um,
I think one of the most interesting aspects of your first encounter is that the
ship's log was missing after that. Yeah, I thought that very very strange
that somebody would take the ship's log. Yeah, I mean, had that
ever happened prior or had you ever noticed that happening at any other time ever?
Ever? Yeah? Yeah, you know, and we would, you
know. And the ship's logs were big, and they're like about eight and
a half or fourteen, you know, yeah, paper bound and all that
stuff, and on the front you have a start date when you start the
log, and et cetera, et cetera, and you record everything in the
ship's log. You know, Joe Blow cut his figure, I'm apply to
band aid, He's okay, you went back to work. That kind of
thing goes in the ship's log. So every little thing that goes on in
the ship is recorded. So yeah, of course, and that's diary in
other words, it's been that way for centuries, you know, and you
know, so it is really odd how that that whole thing disappeared and you
never saw it. Now, let me ask you this, So what do
you do? Get a new log and you start again? You know,
Yeah, what you finish the log? You put the end date on it,
for the last date on it, you signed it, You sign it,
you say, okay, this has been signed by whoever finished the last
slog. And then you put the date and they say, okay, give
it to give it to get all to put it in the log locker.
So then we start a new log and start a new log first date.
Yea, so we have, you know, new logs ready go. So
we never we never run out right? And what about the documentation of the
second encounter that was probably put in the ship's log. Also, I was
not in charge of the ship's log at that time. Somebody else was in
charge of writing that up. Yeah, so whoever was the quartermaster at that
time? And I could there was well, there was like four of us
that was a first class petty officer, of second class petty ouncer, two
seamen, and myself a third class petty officer. And so it was either
it had to be one of the petty officers that was writing the log.
So it was either the second class petty officer, the first class petty officer,
or myself. And I was at that time, I was not writing
the ship's log. Hmm. When okay, so let's Now I'm just gonna
just change the conversation a little bit. So when you so, when you
saw this, I'm asking about your personal experience. You saw this object,
It seemed to appear to be at a very high elevation, but then all
of a sudden it did things you can't explain and every and you were among
many witnesses that that saw this, all saw it happened at the same time.
Um, what was your your aftermath thoughts about what you saw? Like,
did you think, wow, you know, maybe we are being visited,
or you know, did you think about it? I did. I
thought a lot about it, and really, like I said, it altered
my consciousness and maybe start to think. I started to think of who who
are they and what are they doing? And why are they doing that?
And were they showing off? I mean that was the reverse reaction. These
guys showed off. Look what we can do? I don't know, because
you know, I kept thinking if they had kept going straight, only they
had kept going straight, we would have forgotten all about it. We were
asked somebody's aircraft. They just kept going you know, unusual atograft or whatever
whatever, and we would have forgotten about But that maneuver that ninety degree turn
and then just taking off like that the way they did, that's what was
indelible environ mind and that kind of like, what the hell was that?
Because we all, like I said, we all just looked at each other
like, did you just see what I just saw in my dreaming? You
know, it was kind of like holy metal, that's that's that was starting.
It was startling, let's put it that way. Yeah, it's very
unusual. I mean we were used to seeing jets, We're used to seeing
other ships. Yeah, so you know something that out does us kind of
made you feel like, yeah, not at all. Whoever that is I
like the like the this was the operations officer. Okay, this is a
full lieutenant. In other words, in the army, you would be a
captain. And this was a straight, kind of arrow kind of guy.
This is the kind of guy most officers on the ship. You saluted him
in the morning and that was it. You were done saluting for the rest
of the day. This officer, you had a salute returning song. He
was an I believe he was an Annapolis guy. Yeah you're serious, Yeah,
very sick. His demeanor changed after that. He was not as serious
anymore. He started to smile a little more. I can tell you his
name. I could even show you a picture of the officer, but I
don't think I should because I don't have permission from that gentleman to be showing
the war craft. Right right, Um, So this question, this is
another speculation. Could the vcraft have been one solid craft? Most most most
likely if it turned it in an instant right, and the ninety degree angle
and then the V formation never changed right right, never. Yeah, it
was like this and they weren't like that, right, and I mean not
that small. They were whoooo they were they were gone, I mean were
you Also it was almost like an elongation slightly like when they took off,
like a like a streak, like a blur, Yeah, like a blur,
and they were gone and they were all the lights are gone. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, that that's really that's really a good one. Haw
far offshore? Were you at that point? We were. We were in
the middle of the ocean. We were traveling from Midway Island to Guam.
We were in a part of the ocean for the charts or white because there's
no land, so we in fact, we were marking rocks. We were
working with sonar at that time marking rocks. Now there was we were navigating
and were actually creating things for the charts. UM. You know things that
are there. You know there's a rock was sighted here in nineteen fifty three
and you know things like that would be on the chart. And so we
were documenting new things through so we can send it to the Notice Tomarritors.
The Notice two Mariners is the international UM document that goes out to all shifts
to see uh saying a booi's been moved fifty yards this way. Okay,
so they've said ours and so it's been moved this way or that way.
It's always indicating any kind of change and UM navigational markers or anything like that.
So that was our job was always keep our charts up to date.
So we were always looking at Notice Tmarritors and correcting our charts all the time.
We were correcting charts. That was our daily job, correcting charts,
making sure we were up to date. Right Bill that the kg R,
a radio producer sent me a question for you. Wanted to know what you
thought about the military coming for not just pilots, but people like himself who
observed um things on naval vessels. Well, it's about time. I think
there's probably a lot more out there. And what I'm poping with this podcast
is that some of the witnesses that were on the destroyer when I was on
the destroyer, who saw the V formation, will start to acknowledge. I
mean, you know, there was quite a few witnesses. You know,
there was two definitely two officers, a full lieutenant and a ensign, the
junior officer of the deck. So I know they all saw the same thing
I saw. Yeah, So I hope maybe one of them will remember it
or remember the ball. I did ask one of the other navigators that they
remember the balls that he couldn't remember it. Yeah, And I'm just wondering,
you know how, you know, if if we if that's like selective
thinking or or you know, I don't know, I really don't know.
I really thought that, you know, people would remember us turning the ship
off, because that's one of the eerious feeling to have when you're middle of
the middle of the water and all of a sudden there's nothing, you have,
no engine you're used to be. The ship sounds all the time,
the engines are going. We're used to a certain hum in the ship,
and hum and all you hear is the water lapping on the side of the
water on the side of the ship. You kind of like really feel eerie.
Yeah, yeahs you're not under power. You know. I've heard of
people that have had you know, actually UFO encounters and the people that they
witnessed with said they don't remember, which is pretty bizarre. You know.
Well, it makes me wonder if they were in shock to the point that
they just push that out of their mind. They don't want to they don't
want to remember it because it is kind of a scary thing. I mean,
you know, we were kind of a little I was a little freaked
down about it. When you say, you know, you just saw something
to make a ninety return disappears. Yeah, yeah, that's unusual. I
have seen other things like that where I'll be looking I tell people I'm a
junior in a standom. When I became a junior astronomer. I have a
couple of telescopes already, h and my burnoc. I have my standard seven
by fifty barnoculars that I still use and I have so often we'll be looking
at the sky and I'll see something like a star and I want to wow,
what star is that? I don't remember that start being there, and
all of a sudden it'll just go out. It'll be like a stationary light
and then all of a sudden it just goes out, and I go,
Okay, that's not a satellite. I know what satellites looked like. Satellites
keep moving in one direction. They don't. They don't maneuver. Satellites or
not maneuver. They don't change ruptly. They keep in there. They're an
orbit. Yeah, no, I've heard. I've had a few people tell
me that they've seen satellites and then all of a sudden they'll move jag off
um in one direction. So sometimes there's an atmospheric issues that can make you
know, the lights change colors and plank and things like that. Two is
a satellite, you know, goes to the other side of the Earth kind
of thing. They don't go out. Oh yeah, yeah, that's all
sun reflected. Yeah, the sun, even though that we don't see the
sun, it's the reflection is still um from the sun up there. And
space junk. Two. Now, I've never seen any space junk, but
I've heard people talk about it, and one one friend told me m a
story about being on the C C five C five whatever it is has to
do with uh Stephen Greers famous groups that he gets together and to see UFOs,
and they were they the person believe they're actually seeing space junk. All
the UFOs were just space junk, which also supposedly reflects from the sun until
it gets out of range of the sunbeam. But what if it's space junk,
then it do seem will be going in one direction. It won't be
unless it's falling. You know, I'm falling. Yeah, Like I said,
I never I've seen a lot of satellites that I've never seen. What's
that Chace jo does maneuver? Not that we know, I've not not not,
it's not supposed to. Let's see. Um, well, someone's asking,
have you ever had any other types of experiences? Oops? You there?
Oh it looks like looks like Alfred has frozen. I'm not really sure
what happened. Um, let me take them out bring him back in,
all right, So I think we lost our guest here for a moment.
Um. I'm gonna try to see if he'll come back. But I right
now I have to remove him. And Bill, I'm wondering if you can
hear me here, if you can come on the show for a couple of
minutes and let me see if I can let's see. I don't know how
to do that, so hopefully he'll be coming back in. Uh, he's
gone. H Bill, are you able to talk a little bit? Chat
a little bit? Okay? All right? I found him, I find
him fascinating, and just from my perspective, I believe him to be a
hundred US an authentic Martin. Yeah. I don't see why I wouldn't be.
You're right, I mean you can body language says a lot about a
person, not just their voke, you know, speaking, but you can
tell. I mean, he's very passionate about what he's discussing. And then
when he went back and you you kind of changed the perspective of the question
end of he still reiterated the same thing he said earlier. Yeah. Yeah,
you know, interesting really interesting cases he was talking about. And I
wish that people would come forward. It's too bad that those people that were
on the ship with him. I don't know if they're still alive, you
know, if they're still in service. Maybe that's the reason why they're not
coming forward, because they're still active duty. I don't know they would be
rather quite up there in age, but this is the Vietnam War era,
right, But I think it's important that people like himself come forward, so
maybe that would encourage others to come forward as well. That's right, Bill,
I'm hearing feedback coming through your speakers when coming back through your MIC.
I just had to MUTU when I'm when I'm talking, So I think your
your speakers are a little bit loud there or something. So I'm just gonna
you're using a headset. I don't know why I'm hearing feedback anyway, here's
a we're hoping that Alfred comes back on. It appeared that his internet did
go out, and there's a question here, Martin. Did your sighting changed
direction? Yes, it did. What happened the UFO setting I had a
Bill, I'm going to have to mute you. I don't know why,
but the UFO setting that I had in Carmel Valley just drove through there the
other day was just a craft that went over in one direction and stopped and
just stayed, you know. For me at this point, trying to remember
exactly how long it stayed stationary. I'm going to say five seconds maybe,
and then it went off on a very straight angle toward Monterey from from the
direction I was in. So yeah, I mean it changed directions, but
it was going very slow the whole time, and I can't judge the height
of it, so I can't figure out exactly how how far it was.
Now, now, do I still have that echo because I kind of changed
some settings on my background. Yeah, no, we're all set now,
thank you. Okay, now what I saw over my house, and I
apologize to folks that are watching. I've had oral surgery, so it's a
little tough for me to have a conversation right now. That's why Martin mentioned
that before he brought me on. But um, when I captured that over
my house, it curved down, curved back up, curved a little to
the right, stopped gone. I think that was swamp gas. But I
mean, I will never say it's extraterrestrial or intermensional because it's unclear. It
was way up there. There's no way to discern what the object was,
and it could be a drone because you mentioned something. Remember he mentioned about
satellites being stationary, yeah, or going in an orbit, geosynchronous whatever.
Right now, we know that under development by the world powers. Let's just
say with the control hypersonic missiles that are going on, where they can actually
control the trajectory of this projectile or whatever the platform they're using, I would
not be surprised there's drones that they're using in space. Also, satellites can
move. There are killer satellites out there Martin that they can actually connect and
throw off other satellites. You could look it up. They're called killer satellites.
They can move toward another satellite to take it out. So just because
we think that maybe you know satellite goes in an orbit there, trust me,
you know they're doing all kinds of stuff up there that the public isn't
aware of. That very welcome. That's kind of scary, it is.
But I'm just saying, you have to think about all the possibilities, and
I think a lot of people that are watching right now would say we need
to deal with all the possible rational explanations before coming to a conclusion where now
we've eliminated all those possibilities, Now what is it we know? And that's
the things that need to be investigated. But with all the stuff that all
these countries are testing right now, I mean, I'm just a person that
believes a lot of the stuff that we see is natural phenomenon, man made
phenomenon, and man made in top secret experimental level craft. That's just my
opinion. But I'm sure there's a small percentage that fits onder that category unexplainable,
that's right. Um, Well, while we're at this juncture, I'm
just going to say too, I'm not getting an email, email, or
any correspondence from from our guests. I'm not sure if he's coming back on.
If he's just you know, his internet's gone, who knows. I
had a situation where someone was on years ago and um that I think their
house gets struck by lightning or something, and they were they were gone.
That was definitely a government plan. I'm sure, Well he was. I'll
tell you one thing. He is a fascinating guest. I agree with Pamela
and Chat and I told you privately in Chat I find this discussion fascinating.
Yeah. Yeah, I've always like and um and by the way, you
know, I have some recordings already of people that had a UFO encounter.
I like to run these during the breaks if you'd like to, If you'd
like to email me and tell me about your UFO encounter, if I think
we can do a clip about it, I will do that. And my
email addresses Martin at podcast ufo dot com. So also, I got to
say the guests that I was supposed to have for this coming next week I
have not heard back from. So if you are curious what our guests is
going to be each week, then all you have to do is go to
podcast ufo dot com, go over to the sidebar, and subscribe to our
weekly newsletter, and then each week you'll get a link to the blog and
a link to the guest information. So I'm not sure Bill, if our
guest is coming back or not. Well, if anybody, I mean,
if you would like to call in, I can jump off and take your
college. If you have calls from Martin, hopefully yeah, we can try.
We can drive his guests will come back, and if his guest comes
back, you can ask quick Oops, sorry about that, Bill, that's
all right, just hearing some echoing again. All right, So what I'm
gonna do is I'm gonna put up here's the phone number for anyone I'd like
to call in. That number is eight five five four seven two five four
eight three if you want to call in now and talk about, oh,
basically anything the direction that the UFO topic seems to be headed in. Some
people want to talk about disclosure. I have mixed feelings about that. That
actual word. I'm not really sure. Hey, now that you say that
wasn't tonight the night that they had something at the National Press Club, Yes,
that's correct, um, Bill Bob Salas who was on the show a
while back. It is tonight. I was trying to find out more information
about that just before we went on the air, and it's supposed to be
he's back in is it? Where where's the National Tam Washington? Yes?
I actually may have a link to the live YouTube stream Peter robbin Yeah,
I'm gonna send it to you this way, I'll put it in the private
chat. But um, Peter Robbins is the only person there that is technically
in the field of uphology. But he sent me a link and I'll try
to pull it up while we're on the air, and then you could share
it to that stream, so that idea. Yeah, and I think a
lot of people would find that fascinating not to watch. Yeah, so I'll
I'll look it up. I think I may have it here it is,
So I'm going to click on the link myself so I can grab it,
and I'm gonna mute so we don't hear it on the air. Oh my
god, someone says they think I'm on the wacky weed. Isn't that funny?
Well, you know, maybe that would help. I might try that
next time, but thank you for that, Larry. All right, there
is the link. All right, it was this morning actually, Martin.
Okay, but you can go there and watch it, folks, all right,
I will. Um, let's see. How how can I do.
I'm going to send it to you on Skype this way you can no,
No, that's fine. I have I have an idea what to do.
But I okay, but it was from eight thirty to eleven this morning,
so it's two and a half hours, and we do well, yeah,
we do have a caller, so you can take me off. So I
do have a caller, yes, so get me off so I can answer
the phone. I have a great night, everybody, all right, but
I gotta bring you back in when the caller. Yeah, I'll take myself
off camera. All right, all right, so Bill is taking a call.
We have a caller into the show. Thank you for our patients.
I'm only can only guess that somehow our guests tonight boss's internet. That's unfortunate.
Um, it was a great conversation. I'll keep my eyes up open
to see if he comes back, and hopefully he will come back. But
right now we have someone. Bill is taking screening the call right now,
and if you'd like to call in that number again right up on the screen
eight five five four seven two five four eighty three. Was it Harry or
Larry that said he thought I was on the wacky Weed? But anyway,
hopefully it was Larry, And we have Harry from Louisiana. Welcome to the
show. You're live on that number again seven two all right, all right,
this is what's going to have to happen. Harry, You're gonna have
to mute your show. You're watching the show a live obviously, so Harry,
mute, mute the show. Please mute the show. And Bill,
hopefully you can remember to tell people to do that. We got a couple
of calls, but right now we have Harry. You there, I am
yes, hi, welcome to the show. You have a question or you
want to talk about a topic. I was interested in the triangle UFOs that
forced the witnesses to the ground. I hadn't heard that before, and I'm
interested in knowing more about that. Yeah, well I would now Katie in
Australia as a person, I know now it was a triangle for her.
I couldn't get the fact that when he said this black object, this is
during the Vietnam War back in nineteen sixty six, when it flew over the
people on the ground, it forced them to the ground. And that's something
he didn't really stay. You know, hopefully we'll come back on, but
you didn't really say the shape of that that craft. However, Katie,
who will be on the show at some point, is going to go into
detail about what she saw over them. So yeah, that that is a
fascinating story. It is interesting. I just went out online a few minutes
ago and was just looking at triangle UFO stories trying to see something anything I
could find about that. I just thought that was an interesting kind of phenomenon
associated with that. Um, I'm just you know, just it makes you
speculate about what could be what, you know, what kind of propulsion system
or whatever it could be producing that that effect. But that's really fascinating.
Um it almost seems like an anti gravity or something like that. Well,
yeah, that's kind of what I thought, But I don't know that effect
in other reports. I mean, I'm I may have heard it and just
forgot, but it doesn't seem to be too common, and there have been
a lot of UFO reports over the many decades. That would be interesting to
do a search of sightings or close up encounters that where people were physically affected
and may be forced even to the ground by it. That's yeah, yeah,
yeah, that's only the second time that I've ever heard that, and
so yeah, I think that that is that is fascinating. And so I'm
just hearing from my guests now, just to everyone know, I did hear
back this, doctor Irena Scott. She's going to be on next week on
next week's show. So have you ever, Harry, have you ever looked
into Dave Marler's great book on triangle UFOs. I haven't looked into the I
haven't seen the book. I was I think aware that there was a book
in fact, just just now out online. I noticed some mention of that.
I think, so, yeah, maybe I need to check that out
and see it's it's wonderful research. Now. I talked to Dave quite often,
but that's something I've never remembered to ask him about about the pressure effect
if any of these triangle UFOs. I have his book, I mean I
could, I suppose I could. I have a lot of books to read
through, but that's one of them that you know from the part that I
did read, I haven't. I've read part of it. It's so well
written and documented and great stuff. You don't hear a lot of triangle UFOs
early on, but there are some. There are some encounters that go back,
but just there's just very few of them. It seems like it's the
vehicle of choice these days. I mean, it seems like there's a lot
more triangles than others. But we're stacked if we actually have two more people
waiting in line, anything out, kerry, Okay, well, just very
quickly. For a long time, I've been wanting to see a panel convened
to discuss whether or not, you know, the government might have actually acquired
technology over the decades that would allow them to have anti gravity craft. U
you know, all the money that goes into black projects, they must have
explored that. And I'd love to see a panel of like physicists and aerospace
people just speculate. Uh. I mean, there's nothing that I know of
in the private sector that that indicates that we humanity has has the that ability
right now, not in the private sector. I would just wonder if if
experts could speculate about whether the government might have focused enough money to have actually
produced that kind of thing, because that would be technology that would maybe explain
a lot of these things away as as ours and not from somewhere else.
I can understand though if they are trying to keep it secret, because I
mean, it would be such a you know, it would be such a
step ahead of everyone else if we actually had something like that. I mean,
and also you can think of all the uses we could have if we
actually had that type of thing available to us. The energy that well,
I don't know what type of energy it would takes to create the h you
know, the any gravity. If it's not a lot of energy, perhaps
travel could be completely revolutionary, you know, in the future. So but
anyway, we've got four people now online waiting to talk to you. Thank
you. Enjoy talking to you. All right, all right, Harry,
take care, thank you. All right. Next we have William from Florida.
William, you're alive on the air. Hi Martin. Good evening,
good evening, thanks for calling. Thank you. Um. I had the
opportunity to install a security system, you know, cameras and DVR at my
house. And next I put a few pails on the roof and hold the
screed up. Um what I use? Where more than this visible light?
I could be infrared and ultra violet. Can I just ask you something?
Are you on speaker phone? No, I'm not. Let me let me
check. Okay, answer, good connection. Well I was fading in and
out, so I wonder if you just make sure you can speak into the
mouthpiece and continue on if you would. Okay, let me get a different
play of the house. Count. So it's receptionto little Spotty. Yeah,
okay, please hear me now. Yeah, but it is fading in and
out, so go ahead though, okay. Um. So what I noticed
was the DVR has a recording log and it puts a watermark on a twenty
four hour type of display. See you can see whatever motion sensed by any
of the cameras and what I was noticing. Occasionally this would happen, maybe
once a week or so, but every Sunday I'd sit down, sit in
my coffee and look at look at what you know, went through the ardor
went went over the house, and many times it was helicopters and planes,
and so I was seeing these balls of light going across the sky. Occasionally
some were closer, some were further up. Some I saw in a v
pattern like you were talking about earlier with the guy from the Vietnam and yeah,
and so very amazing. So what I ended up doing was I took
a satellite dish and hacked it out. I put a high game microphone in
it instead and aimed it straight up also, and when I headed hooked to
the stereo, I could really crank it up. And these balls of light
would never make any noise, completely silent. The planes and helicopters, of
course made noise. I could even hear the jetliners that look like a speck
in the sky going over. And it was it was good security for the
house because I could hear everything in the neighborhood as well, because it would
pick up anything that was reflected around the neighborhood. Audiolie. But yeah,
and so on occasions I had some of these balls of light that were so
close to the yard that you could actually see the heat trail coming off of
them. And the heat is displayed at night the image, it makes the
image white on this type of white spectrum camera, but on these ones that
were closed, I could actually see a heat trail behind it, almost looking
like you know, a mane of white hair, you know, with the
wind blowing, and you could see this ball just slowly moving across over the
house. And so my camera system, my DVR, was picking the stuff
up and putting a watermark on my recorder. So what I'm basically trying to
tell everybody is anybody can do this. Yeah, there all the time.
It's just a matter of looking in the right spectrums. Usually they're not able
to be seen with the naked eye, and that's why some people can see
them at other people can't. Oh, that's interesting. One of the things
I was going to ask you, but you kind of answered that. The
question was that if is there an airport Nearbying, could these be landing lights?
But you said you didn't. You can hear things from the airliners going
overhead, nothing from these. But did these things travel on the same the
same direction every time? No, no, not at all, all different
directions. Some I actually saw coming straight down out of the sky, and
they appeared to like and large as they got closer, and then they would
go back up, really going across the sky horizontally. There was be vertical.
So are you saying this is not it's not in the visible spectrum.
Many times they're not now and I have seen a few on occasion with my
own eyes. But I don't think that all of these that were going across
the sky could be seen by the general public, because I'm certain that I
would have heard about it from neighbors and other people. I even had friends
who would call me occasionally and say, hey, you know, there's something
coming in your direction, and I was never able to catch what they saw,
or if they saw something the night before, I would go back and
on the DVR, you know, and look at it from the night before,
play playing it back, so I try to confirm what people saw,
but never never was able to catch, you know, the same direction.
So my camras were probably zoomed into about maybe ten time magnification, so I
wasn't really heavily zoomed to see something close up. But yet when when you
do that, then you lose your field of view and you don't see as
much. And so I ended up with probably two dozen occurrences that I ended
up saving. And it was always, you know, great entertainment for friends
that would come over or family. We would sit there and play this stuff
back and and everybody was just you don't found that nobody knew what to really
say. Well, I'm wondering if this is if you would be able to
send me one of those videos, if you'd be willing to do that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do want to do that because there's there's
people I'm sure that are interests that are listening to this right now. If
I would have your permission to just put it up on YouTube with an unlisted
and then put the link to it in the show notes so people that are
listening to the show only can take a peek at it, right right,
right, Well, let's can we talk later after the call start lighter after
and what you need to do if you would, because I have things going
on this evening's early here in California, where I am, but I need
you to email me at podcast Martinet Podcast UFO dot com. But William,
thank you so much for the call. It's been fascinating. Thank you,
thank you. And that was Martin at what podcast UFO dot com got it?
Thanks man, Okay, William, thank you. All right. Next,
we have Stephen calling from Michigan. Stephen, Welcome to the show.
Stephen, are you there? Welcome to the show. All right. So
let's jump over to Chris from Houston. Chris, are you there? Welcome
to the show. Hey, Martin, Hey, thanks for having me on.
I've called him three times now, I think, and each time it's
been a pleasure. So thank you for having me. I had two questions.
I just finished watching the Skinwalker Ranch documentary by Jeremy Corbell and with the
Knids guys out on the ranch, buck, that's what I thought. I
was like, I'll roll with it. Thank you. Okay, what's going
on? All right? Am I missing something here? I didn't quite catch
that? Marten? Can you hear me? I can, yes, Okay,
I think we got the names mixed up on the call, but I
can go ahead with my question. All right, what's your name? It's
Steve from Grand Rapids, Michigan. Yes, I did. I did try
you, and I guess you weren't connected at the time. Steve O.
Welcome to the show. So anyway, move we can move right along.
Here. Tell me what it is that happened. Yeah, yeah, So
I just finished watching these Skinwalker Ranch documentary by Jeremy Corbell, and it was
interesting. You know, with the PhD scientists guys there for over twenty years,
they kept talking about how the phenomenon they were trying to capture almost knew
exactly where like camera positions would be. It would always pop off, just
like right off of the camera frames, so you can never capture it and
you can never see it. And it was interesting. They always said that
it was it did not want itself to be revealed. So, you know,
I watched the New York Times come out with these these videos from the
FEDS, and they're I think they're amazing, but clearly they're not. It's
not that that golden image that can convince the world, you know, of
the reality of the phenomenon, and we've never had an image like that.
So I wanted you too, maybe common and speculate on you know, if
we ever will get a chance to see that or if you just I guess
speculating against or about like when they appear and when they allow themselves to be
viewed and if we'll ever see the full extent. And last quick question,
Martin, is when I go to YouTube and you're you're looking for UFO videos,
I swear the algorithms they don't. They give you news stories, they
don't. I know there's more videos and images out there, and I'm wondering
if you have any ideas or thoughts on other platforms or easier ways to access
the massive amount of the media that I know is out there. And it
just feel that it's means surprise. Thank you, I appreciate it. Uh
yeah, thank you. You asked a number of questions there. But get
as far as the YouTube goes, I'm not you know, there's some really
good channels out there. I actually think that Chris Ledo is doing a very
good job, but he's doing it mostly on you know, his experience in
military experience. John Greenwald has a great YouTube channel, the Black Vault,
and there are a number of them. We have a the UFO of the
Celebrity Review, Lewis yemas um a fun guy. He is, he's got
a great show. He's trying to do some really good work. So,
yeah, it's hard. It's hard searching searching a word. You know,
word search is very difficult because you're going to come across all kinds of you
know, bogus things and things like that. Um, so it's tough.
You've got to choose your sources carefully when you're looking into this topic. So
thank you, thank you for the call. Sorry couldn't he answer it all
I'm trying to get some people in here. And next is actually a friend
friend of the show as well, Linda Zimmerman. Linda, welcome to the
show. Thank you, Martin. How are you great? I'm so glad
you called in. How are you good? You piqued my curiosity when you
were mentioning the pressure from a UFO. Yeah. I have heard that with
several witnesses, but the earliest case I've been able to find was actually Oak
Park, Illinois in nineteen twenty nine. A fascinating case. A medical student
was walking home and a forty foot glowing disc descended to about one hundred foot
altitude. He felt heat and the pressure was so strong it literally knocked him
to his knees, and when it took off he was able to stand up,
and he said that distinct odor of sulfur was in the air, So
thought you might be interested in this case. Definitely, there isn't that something
I never heard of. I don't know if I've ever heard of any encounter
ever that there was like a sulfur smell. That's pretty bizarre, very rare.
Yeah. Yeah, and the pressure thing, I mean, we can
only speculate, but it makes me wonder what was the effect on other biological
things in the area, like you know, I mean, trees, plants,
dogs, you know, was it I mean, is there any accounting
of that? I mean, I'm sure when you're going all the way back
to that nineteen twenty nine, I think that's what you said. Details are
probably not in there like that, not that. And plus he was walking
on Euclid Street in Oak Park, which probably was more urban I think,
Um, but yeah, there should have been trees, but he didn't.
He didn't say anything about about that. But to me, it sounds that
there's there's some sort of field this craft is generating. Perhaps it has to
do with propulsion or you know, creating some sort of field in front of
the craft. To push someone to the ground, that has to be very
strong. I would think so. And it also makes me wonder if there
was a sound issue, like a lot of people say that sound you know
disappears. Um you know initially heard humming like turbines, he said. Um
didn't mention any any silence after that, but uh, you know, between
the pressure, the heat, the sulfur smell, this this is um.
This was a remarkable case. Definitely, Linda, thank you so much for
the call. It's always always great to talk to you and always nice to
see you when that happens. So thank you. Yes, glad to share
that. So take care, all right you two bye. Now we have
just one more call. We only got a few minutes. Chris waiting patiently
in Houston, Texas. Chris, welcome to the show. Hi, Hi
Martin, Hi Hi Will. Yeah, thank you thanks for being on hold
all that time. Sorry about that, no problem, No UM, I'm
not calling with a personal sighting this time. I'm calling to just mention a
note about the lights question that keeps coming up. Why use um UM navigation
lights on a aircraft? If you if you're not, there's nothing you don't
want people to see you. Well, I think one thing that keeps every
time I hear this, this occurs to me that if why do we use
lights on our aircraft? Well, it's not for aliens to see us,
it's for other humans to see us. It's for people on the ground to
see us, and specifically for other people in the air to see us.
So doesn't make perfectly good common sense that if you are a biological organism with
optical visual systems that operate in what we share, which is the visible light
spectrum, that if you have other craft in the area that you would be
running lights to for not for anybody on the ground, not for any of
the observers or witnesses, but for your other team members who are also in
the air with you or on the ground. I mean a little bit.
It should be a little bit of a you know, scary thought. But
it doesn't make sense, doesn't it that if if you're if you're if you
have aircraft that are that are aircraft based craft, and you operate in a
visual light spectrum, then it makes sense to put lights on your aircraft,
whether you're human non human, wherever you're from. I mean, yeah,
and I'm afraid. I'm afraid they use lights. We're out of a time,
Chris. I hate to say it, but yeah, that is.
It's quite hard, you know when it's also hard not to think in human
terms. But you did just mentioned you know, maybe whoever they are needs
the same thing, and that's a possibility. I don't really know, but
I appreciate your your thoughts on that. That was very good. Thanks at
creatures at the bottom of the ocean use lights for each other, not for
us. That's a good point. All right, take care, Thanks a
lot, all right, all right, everyone, so thank you so much
for hanging in with us. That's too bad we lost our guests. But
I do want to thank all the callers that called in and help us go
through the show. I want to also thank Bill for helping out. And
next week we just found out we have doctor Irena Scott. Should be a
great show. Thanks so much everyone, and remember to keep your eyes to
the guy.