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And now and now most underrated voice
in all media, the alternatives alternative,

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Chuck o'celly. So it's the nineteenth
day, according to what I can see,

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the nineteenth day of December twenty fifteen. And good evening to you.

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We are live at the moment.
Who knows if you're catching this further on

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down the stream the o'celly Effect from
American Freedom Radio at Americanfreedomradio dot com.

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Anyway, here we go again with
yet another Myths episode. Yes, I

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have done this several times, but
it bears repeating. And besides, it

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is nearly endless, the amount of
material that is out there which is based

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on a foundation of well, let's
just call it nonsense, badly sourced information,

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extremely poorly scientifically studied information, et
cetera, et cetera. And this

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is part six of the Myths series. So moving forward, I have with

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me, as always Carmine Sabastano,
who has joined me on every single one

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of these Myths episodes from Mineapolis Media
Group. And of course his book is

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soon to come out a it's called
Two Princes and a King, and that

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will focus on not only the JFK
assassination, but the assassination of Bobby Kennedy

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as well as doctor Martin, Luther
King Junior. How you doing tonight,

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Carmine doing great? Chuck, thanks
for having me back. Man. I

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can't do this without you, because
otherwise, otherwise I wind up just upset,

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Sir, I need someone else to
like take take you know, take

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a few minutes of the broadcast every
once in a while, for sure.

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Even though you know I do like
to talk. I'm happy to discuss this

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subject, but sometimes, out of
abject frustration, disappointment, and complete disbelief,

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I have to take a step back
from some of the things talk about

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on these shows. So I appreciate
you helping me through them in a therapeutic

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fashion. By Zan Noble and a
very special guest I have with us tonight,

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and she has been on my show
a few times. I do appreciate

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every single time I get to sit
down and talk to Miss Sherry Feaster.

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Now, Cherry Feaster is an interesting
character, not in the simple way that

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she's merely been an author, okay, but her approach to the subject of

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the JFK assassination and the background she
possesses, as well as the sanity with

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which she makes her presentations well,
what am I going to say? You

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guys have heard me several times,
even during these arguments and very strange situations,

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including the night that we did at
the anniversary show, where I turned

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around and mentioned her directly during a
heated exchange and said, you know,

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if you take a look, look
at somebody who actually understands the forensic spine.

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Don't take my amateur understanding of them
for granted, but hey, how

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about somebody who actually worked in that
particular profession. How about somebody who's studied

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it from that particular angle, who's
written about it, who completely disagrees with

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your nonsense. And I'll omit the
name of the person I was arguing with.

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How about her study on this and
why everything you're saying right now makes

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absolutely no sense based on that and
modern forensic techniques which were not even imagined

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at the time that you're saying everything
was falsified. Oh yeah, that didn't

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go well. But I absolutely do
look at Sherry Feaster as somebody who you

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need to study. Of course,
she is the author of what do we

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call it? Enemy of the Truth? Okay, And the subtitle makes perfect

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sense with this show tonight, of
course, what is that subtitle exactly,

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Sherry, just so I don't screw
it up. It's Myths, forensics and

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the Kennedy Assassination. So who better
to have on a JFK Myths show than

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Sherry Feaster. How are you doing
tonight? I am, well, thank

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you so much, and gosh,
what a great introduction. Because I know

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that a lot of people that are
on a lot of the radio shows and

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present themselves to the community of people
that are interested in the Kennedy assassination call

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themselves conspiracy theorists, and I don't
call myself that. I don't because I'm

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not really a conspiracy theorist. I
am a person that brings what was my

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day job for thirty years, using
rational, a provable facts and look at

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the Kennedy assassination as an open homicide. And so when you do that,

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you're not looking at theories. You're
looking at what is reproducible, consistent results

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based in scientific disciplines. And so
you're really not a historical researcher at that

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point. And so my focus with
the Kennedy assassination is very limited. It

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is it is very driven with what
I can prove as a forensic investigator and

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using my education and training and expertise
and helping to develop an idea of what

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really did happen with the murder of
an American president. Well, right,

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and very specifically, I mean,
you were a blood spatter analyst for quite

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a few years. I mean,
for those who don't necessarily understand what that

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means, maybe you've seen the TV
series Dexter. You know, No,

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Sherry is not a serial killer,
but she is somebody who understands the job

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that Dexter is portrayed as having been
doing for the police department there in that

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TV series. Is that accurate,
SHERI, it is accurate. I'm not

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a serial killer. You're absolutely right
about See I've gotten one thing right,

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very good so far in this broadcast. Now, yeah, shit that well,

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for about thirty years in three different
states, at both state, local,

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and federal levels, I am a
court certified expert in crime scene reconstruction,

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which includes bloodstained pattern analysis and shooting
reconstruction. Oh see, that to

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me sounds like somebody who actually has
had to study various disciplines to understand the

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analysis of crime scenes. Excuse me, A crime scene investigator a much overused

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term at this point because of TV
shows and things like that. But I

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mean that's truthfully what you are were
both because well you're still analyzing things,

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but of course in a professional capacity
where that was your day job that was

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going on for what three decades?
Right? Yes, that's right. So

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who else could we ask to analyze, you know, a murder scene and

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tell me, is anybody who's sitting
here? I mean, Carmine, can

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you say that there is any dispute
that the Kennedy assassination, the car and

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various other scenes, Okay, but
the car especially is quite clearly the scene

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of a murder part of the evidence, let's you say, but definitely a

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murder scene, right, Carmine,
Yeah, definitely the car. And the

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unfortunate use of the Secret Service and
the FBI in using not the exact car

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but a different car that had similar
qualities in the SBT reconstruction is a problem.

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I think that, you know,
I think that it's excellent that the

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insights and the knowledge that Cherry can
offer through forensics and ballistics that a lot

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of people only speculate on. You
know, I think that there's a lot

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of people that are qualified for different
areas, but no one is an island

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to themselves and knows about all these
things. So it's really helpful to to

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have someone who has decades of experience
in the field. Well exactly, And

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of course when you talk about this, we are talking about the car,

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and of course Carmine alluded to the
reconstruction. There have been a few reconstructions

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and I'm holding up air quotes for
those of you listening of the Kennedy assassination,

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and a lot of them have been
problematic. Let's just say that.

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You know, of course I'm not
a qualified expert or anything, but I'm

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sure Sherry wouldn't have a problem with
me saying there were problems with the reconstructions,

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right, Sherry, absolutely, especially
if you're talking about the Discovery Channel

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thing that they did inside the target
car. That is absolutely ridiculous. I

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mean, I don't even know where
to begin with all the problems. Well,

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right, some years ago, for
those who don't know, the Discovery

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Channel, through a company, had
actually sort of commissioned these individuals to do

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a reconstruction of the shooting and it
was lauded as being one of the most

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useful things ever to have been conducted
for the public's eyes. Regarding the Kennedy

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assassination, and they were able to
duplicate the conditions that one could see when

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it came to the photographic evidence on
the case and Oswald's shooting performance and all

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this other nonsense. And actually there
was a lot of media hype about it.

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Wasn't there there was, But they
made a oh my gosh, such

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a significant era that people do not
catch by their trying to say that they

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were able to prove that there was
a rear shot by doing that reconstruction and

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oh my gosh, they spent so
much money on these targets that they would

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shoot through and all of this stuff. But what they did is they brought

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in two p people that had seen
blood in the inside of the vehicle and

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they said, can you tell us
we're going to create a blood spatter pattern,

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which is what they did. They
shot from the rear, and then

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they said do you think that this
looks like what you saw? And the

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people said, yeah, that's what
that looks like what we saw. Well,

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really, I mean, you could
have shown them anything, they would

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have probably said, yeah, this
is what it looks looked like. And

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then they brought in two people that
were blood span spatter analysts. One was

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Steve Scheibel and the others time Tom
Bevell, who I know. And they

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said to them, based upon this
blood, can you tell me where the

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shooter was located? And they said
absolutely, from behind the president. Well,

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of course that's what they did to
create the pattern. All they really

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did was prove that these two analysts
knew what to do and that they were

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good at their at their craft.
But there's no way for them to have

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reproduced the blood that was actually in
the car. And so people look at

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that and they say, oh my
gosh, look at this. They the

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Discovery Channel did this, and you
know, they used all these replications that

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were anatomically correct of Kennedy, and
these two people who are blood spatter experts

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came in and people that looked at
the vehicle said, this is what the

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blood looked like. But the truth
of the matter is all they did was

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create a pattern and say, to
someone who had no training, whatsoever,

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does this look like what you saw
forty five years ago? And when they

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said yes, they brought in experts
and said can you tell me how this

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was created? And they were able
to tell them. So it really didn't

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do anything. It did nothing.
All it proved is that the experts could

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show you using the forensic stand ins
that they understood the directionality of the shot

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in order to create this spatter pattern
from the forensic stand ins, which,

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okay, good for them, but
in a relative sense, that doesn't tell

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you anything about what actually happened on
November twenty second, nineteen sixty three,

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does it. Yeah, Yeah,
it's I was going to agree that.

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I saw the documentary and quotation marks
itself, and I think another one of

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the big problems in it was that
they also didn't fire from the sixth floor

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of the Texas school Book Depository and
didn't fire from the alleged window that the

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sniper fired from right, you know. And that's what I think the biggest

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problem with all of these recreations is
people talk about what we used a building

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that was it reminds me of the
original FBI recreation. It looked sort of

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similar to the Texas school Book Depository. We're gonna use a window that's similar

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to the window that I was.
Well, they never actually used the area

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that it supposedly occurred and how it
supposedly occurred, and what was really you

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know, and I know, we're
really doing a lot on that Discovery program.

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But I think there are a lot
of people that put safe in that

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they have safe in that. But
the other thing is that they know they

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used an elevated shooting platform that recreated
the distance in the height of the sixth

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floor window that supposedly Oswald would have
shot from. And then they actually show

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in the in the television show itself, how the bullet comes comes through President

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Kennedy and then exits his chest and
you know, cannot hit Connolly. And

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yet the person that's doing the voiceover
says, and the bullet exits President Kennedy

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and moves on to strike Governor Connolly. And it's like, really, you're

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asking people to believe something that they're
not seeing with their own eyes, and

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you're actually proving to us a single
bullet theory is incorrect and impossible. But

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yet you're going to stand by this. And that's the kind of things that

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they did in this show, and
people continually point to it and say,

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well, what about the Discovery Channel
program? Ye? Right, I mean,

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And this is the trouble is that
there was a bit of a sleight

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of hand used here in order to
convince people that hey, we have actually

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done this by looking at it.
But you know what I want to talk

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about, what it is that you've
done, Okay, in trying to understand

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I mean, there are photographs available
of the blood spatter pattern that someone could

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observe. You didn't have to go
through all the recreations if you take a

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look at the evidence the way it
exists. I mean, to my knowledge,

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both the Secret Service and the FBI
photographed the rear of the limousine Okay,

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post assassination, which means that despite
the fact that some of the evidence

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apparently had been cleaned up, you
still have an existing pattern which can tell

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you something. I mean, Am
I wrong about that? Jerry? No,

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you're right. I'll tell you.
The significant thing for me is everybody

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thinks and they and they and they
will write this to me, Well,

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the only thing you're thinking about or
talking about is the blood in there a

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Pruder film. But that's not true, Okay. I really looked at blood

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evidence in testimony and statements from other
people, even in the the the trial

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that was held in New Orleans,
and uh, things that people have said

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more or less to newspaper reporters or
whatever. Other photographs, other books that

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have been written from first hand information
and other films, because there's more than

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one film and photographs, and when
we look at the great preponderance of evidence,

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it really messes quite quite perfectly.
There's nothing that stands out to me

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that says, well, wait a
minute, this, this doesn't just this

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doesn't look exactly right. But because
people don't really understand blo batter analysis,

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it's difficult to really grasp that.
I will tell you that I first published

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my read my result in blood spatter
analysis in nineteen ninety three, and since

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that time, not one person who
is a blood spatter analyst has ever come

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forward and said, you know what, I think she's mistaken. I think

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she interpreted it wrong. I think
that she didn't include all the available information.

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I think she is erroneous in her
conclusion. Not one, which is

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a pretty big deal because I am, i think, the only expert in

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my field that is really addressing the
Kennedy assassination and addressing the blood spatter evidence

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and what it shows in I want
to say that it was in the early

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nineteen nineties, maybe the first COPA
conference in Washington, DC. I don't

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know if any of you guys out
there remember that, but I was the

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first person to speak to a scientific
manner of proving a front headshot, and

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that's through blood spatter, and when
Yeah, that's pretty significant. No,

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that's very significant. And the fact
is that it hasn't been challenged by anyone

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who and I'm sure that more than
one blood spatter analyst has taken a look

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at the work that you've done here. I'm very sure of that she has

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not been challenged by any of them. They haven't come out and said,

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listen, Sherry Feaster made an error. They haven't come out and said that

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you've misrepresented anything, et cetera,
et cetera. I mean, it just

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hasn't happened, you know. And
here's the thing. You're not basing your

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conclusions on the Subruder film. That's
one of these weird misconceptions out there about

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you. It's just that the Zubruder
film is consistent, okay when it comes

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to the blood spray and everything else
with the other pieces of the evidence.

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And that's what you found. So
what are you supposed to do? I

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mean, listen, if it's consistent, it is. If it were inconsistent,

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I'm sure you would say listen,
everything here matches. Except here's one

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problem that that spray which is observable, which by the way, does not

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necessarily mean that it was only there
for that one frame that everybody talks about.

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It just means that it was observable
photographically during one frame. There is

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a difference. Okay, you have
that going on. It doesn't mean that

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you based your conclusions on that.
You actually looked for a bunch of corroborations

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in a scientific way. And let's
not let this loopy. You're the first

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person to have come out and from
that particular discipline, yes, to write

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extensively about it, but also you're
somebody who's come out and scientifically said that

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what I have here for the head
shot, for certain is evidence of a

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shot from the front, not from
the rear. And also, let me

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just say that we're not talking about
the grassy knoll scoring the head shot here,

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right, No, we're not.
No. Well, there's two things

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that you've touched on that I want
to talk about. Number one is that

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using contemporary twenty fifteen methods for determining
the directionality of a bullet, which means

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did it come from the front,
the rear, the side, or whatever.

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There's five methods. There's only five. That's what we have today.

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In nineteen sixty three, there was
one. And this is what we know

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now is that of the five,
and I'm talking about fracture patterns that are

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created within the skull. When a
bullet strikes the skull, it creates fractures,

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and they are very specific and show
you the location of the point of

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the impact and the direction that the
bullet was traveling, the target movement,

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which we have in the Zapruter film, the fra the bullet fragment distribution which

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we have in the X rays,
and the blood spatter which we're already talking

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about. Those are four and the
fifth is deviling, and that's the one

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that they used in nineteen sixty three, and that was the only thing that

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they had in nineteen sixty three.
But guess what we know now that that

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is no longer proven to be reliable
because we can have entry and exit wounds

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that create the same characteristics. And
when we know that, because we know

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that it's easy to misinterpret whether or
not you're looking at an entrance or an

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exit wound, and so now forensic
pathologists no longer use beveling alone as a

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way to determine the directionality of bullets. Well, let's explain bevling really quickly,

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because this is one of the things
that I had to learn about during

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my journey. Okay, into understanding
the forensics. I mean, I'm picking

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up textbooks and everything else, and
lo and behold. You know, anything

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that was printed, say previous to
two thousand and three, I think would

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only solely mention beveling as a way
of determining directionality. Now bevling. Okay,

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when a projectile is fired through something
like a skull bone, okay,

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you have a fairly clean entrance.
A lot of people think, and you

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have a simple hole. This is
not the case. Okay, bone is

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displaced a little bit different from the
shape of the projectile, like in other

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words, the bullet hole doesn't necessarily
you know, you could just squeeze another

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bullet through it, and it makes
a simple, clean hole like a drill

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would when you're running it properly through
you know, a piece of metal or

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wood or something. No, what
happens is there is this kind of a

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divot, a depression that is formed
sometimes right, and this used to be

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It used to be thought that the
beveling would be on the inside of where

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the bullet came from. Okay.
So in other words, if you fired

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into a skull, okay, the
beveling would end up being on the inside

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portion of the skull bone. This
is the way it was thought to be.

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Right. So if you could find
that a bullet had been fired into

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a skull and that there was beveling
on the inside, by taking a look

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at the directionality determined by that beveling, one could extrapolate if you knew the

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position of the head at the time, from whence the shot was fired.

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I mean, is that about right
the way it was previous to the turn

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of the century and a bit after, yes, absolutely. But actually the

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big studies on that started in about
twenty ten. So although there were questions,

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I think that Quatrum was the first
person in nineteen ninety eight to start

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to question whether or not there was
a problem with beveling. It actually took

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another couple of years before people really
started studying that, and ballistics experts,

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researchers, people that were looking at
woon ballistics. In twenty ten there were

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two really big publications Atoms and Prelo, and they both showed that the beveling

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is inconsistent, and especially when you're
talking about a high velocity projectile, and

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it's actually the initial transfer of kinetic
energy creates chipping of the bone, and

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so you could have an entry wound
that looks like an exit wound, an

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exit wound that looks like an entry
womb. And so of course what we

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know in twenty ten and in twenty
and fifteen wasn't available to people in two

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thousand, in nineteen sixty three.
So obviously they used the best information that

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they had. They weren't trying to
be deceptive, but we now know that

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what they were doing was incorrect.
So we can't use the beveling information that

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they had to make a determination about
the directionality of the bullet. Well,

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but here's the thing. It coul
to be part of the supporting evidence,

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but it in and of itself is
not the determining factor. But it once

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was thought to be right. He
is still used as supporting evidence. But

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you're not supposed to use deviling alone. You have to have something else to

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go with it to support it.
Right, you want to answer something,

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well, yeah, I wanted to
say, speaking to Sherry's point in some

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of the Aarb testimony, when Gunn
is questioning Hume's human states that Admiral Berkeley

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had the madd into the autopsy protocol
that it was presumptions they presumed a wound

295
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of entrance, they presumed a wound
of exit based on the small amount of

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information, half the time incorrect information
that they had been given by others outside

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the autopsy room. So there was
a lot of guessing. Yes, they

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have the eyes part, and definitely
in the medical evidence, I agree.

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See. And here's the thing,
just as the science has evolved, your

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view of the evidence needs to be
well, you know, readjusted. You

301
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need to take another look, reevaluate
exactly what it is that you're looking at.

302
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And I mean, now this sounds
like a very complex, arcane discussion

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to some people, but the truth
is that a lot of the things that

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have been argued about over over many
many years regarding this boil down to to

305
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to poorly understood scientific evidence, and
this is something that needs to be handled.

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And of course I'm sure this is
one of the things. And I

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no longer have my copy of your
book thanks to thanks to the puppy.

308
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But you know, I set these
things down, and there's this new dog

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00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:48.720
that we saved over here and he's
eaten a couple of books and anyway,

310
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so I no longer have it in
front of me, but I'll tell you

311
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something. It is. It is
one of the most amazing things. And

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I love the fact that you know
that you that you use the word myth

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in the description in your book.
You know, here's the other thing.

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And I want to let you just
speak about what's on your mind as of

315
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late regarding that and the sort of
misunderstandings or the mythologies that have grown up

316
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around the ideas about forensics. Of
course, the Discovery Channel presentation was certainly

317
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one of those things that made a
mark with the general public, and it's

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very unfortunate because it was very unfairly
done. But I'm wondering about other things

319
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as well that really stand out to
you at this point in time, because

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you have been doing this work now
for more than two decades as somebody who

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is looking at the Kennedy assassination,
and it's it's definitely one of those things

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that changes over time the way you
look at this stuff, and of course

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with the with the evolution of the
science, it has certainly changed your viewpoint

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a bit. I mean when you
were talking about it in in the nineteen

325
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nineties, because I know you not
only did the one COPA conference, but

326
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:15.640
at one point you did some of
the Lancer conferences as well and gay presentations

327
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about this. You know, your
viewpoints have changed, and you know,

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I'm wondering if you want to just
you know, speak to whatever it is

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that stands out to you at this
point in time. You know, well,

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00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:32.440
g two decades deep into what you're
doing. What do you mean about

331
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:37.279
my viewpoints have changed? Well,
no, I'm not saying that your viewpoints

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have changed, but I mean,
obviously because the science has changed a little

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bit, I mean it must have
given you a bit of a different viewpoint.

334
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:48.599
Yeah, yeah, I see what
you're saying. Yeah, because in

335
00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:55.319
twenty ten we had new information that
was made for forensic investigators, and so

336
00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:59.279
of course, you know that became
a part of what I do. And

337
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I'll give you a great example,
and that's target movement. Because when we

338
00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:07.519
look at the Zapruda film frame by
frame, thanks to John Castello, who

339
00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:12.880
is a great friend of mine,
it's really readily apparent that President Kennedy's head

340
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:18.680
moves forward slightly for one frame before
his head and shoulders move backwards in response

341
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to a gunshot wound to the head. And in twenty and eleven we're not

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talking about that far away. A
guy by the name of Robert Cooplan coupla

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n D used high speed photography to
confirm and document forward movement into the line

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of fire that was referenced by a
guy by the name of Bernard Karger,

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a German woon ballistic researcher who in
two thousand and eight published a paper that

346
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said that when kinetic energy is immediately
transferred to the target, the target movement

347
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is initially into the force of the
moving bullet and then followed by the continued

348
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direction of movement, which is more
pronounced. So absolutely, I have incorporated

349
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new things as years have gone by
because forensics is my feel so I want

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to stay abreast of what the latest
information is, especially when you're talking about

351
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shooting reconstructions. So in you know, absolutely, I think it was in

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two thousand and nine I did the
first presentation that talked about when you have

353
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impact that the bullet of the bullet
to the front of the head, that

354
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the head would move towards the front
or against the line of fire. Towards

355
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:51.839
the shooter, however you want to
state that, and then as more kinetic

356
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:56.680
energy is transferred to the target,
it would then move with the continued direction

357
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of force of the moving bullet.
The application of contemporary woundalistics research to what

358
00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:12.480
I'm presenting absolutely is going to change
what I'm presenting. However, it's still

359
00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:18.240
consistent with a single shot from the
front, which, just to kind of

360
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:22.759
put it into a pretty little package
for the layman, goes as follows the

361
00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:30.240
observable backward head snap in the Subruder
film as well as in what is alleged

362
00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:33.640
to be the Knixt film, because
we still don't know where the original is.

363
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:38.160
Take a look at Gail nick Jackson
on that. But anyway, what

364
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:41.880
is alleged to be the Nixt film, the much More film, even in

365
00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:45.279
the Bell film. All of these
films which do depict the head shot,

366
00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:52.319
you can find evidence, yes,
indeed, of a movement forward which is

367
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.720
almost unobservable to the naked eye when
the film is running, okay, or

368
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:01.839
is unobservable depending on who you talk
to. And bottom line is that the

369
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:12.359
violent backward head snap is apparently not
something that is inconsistent with a shot from

370
00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:15.920
the front. So in other words, guess what that violent head snap looks

371
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:19.960
like, what it should look like
if somebody was hit from the front,

372
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even with that odd movement forward,
because that is consistent with what one should

373
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observe in that case. Am I
right? You're absolutely right? And in

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00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:37.000
fact, when Coopland published his paper, he published video and photographs of that

375
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:43.880
forward movement. So the other thing
is that you can go on YouTube and

376
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:51.240
search for on ballistic gel shooting into
ballistic jail whatever you know, however you

377
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:55.599
want to word that, and you
can actually see for yourself that targets move

378
00:32:55.720 --> 00:33:00.839
into the direction of force before they
move with the direction and force. So

379
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:06.279
this is something that is available to
the ordinary person to go on. You

380
00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:08.720
don't have to have these big books. You don't have to have it translated

381
00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:14.079
in from German to English or whatever. You don't have to spend two hundred

382
00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:17.160
and fifty dollars for a textbook,
which is some of the things that I've

383
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:22.039
had to do. But you can
actually see it on YouTube. So how

384
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:28.920
can we say that it's not true? There you go. So a lot

385
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:36.880
of these suppositions regarding fakery of the
evidence and everything else. What someone would

386
00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:43.799
have to believe in order to understand
that all of the photographic evidence has been

387
00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:51.799
completely made whole cloth a fiction,
from scratch or from composites, et cetera,

388
00:33:51.880 --> 00:33:55.640
et cetera. What somebody would have
to understand is that, well,

389
00:33:55.680 --> 00:34:00.680
first of all, the people like
you would be looking at this decades later

390
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:07.079
would have a different understanding of what
they were observing. I mean, you

391
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:09.400
know, follow my logic on this
area. I mean, they'd have to

392
00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:14.920
know that there would be a change
in what one could observe in those X

393
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:20.119
rays in order to tamper with them, they would have to know that someone

394
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:23.719
would would have to, you know, mess around with those photographs that I

395
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:29.480
mentioned earlier from the FBI and the
Secret Service regarding the blood spatter, and

396
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:31.920
they'd have to recreate it in such
a manner that would leave you a nice

397
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:38.840
trail so that even with your newly
understood knowledge of the forensics information, it

398
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:44.800
would still still hang together pretty well. I mean, is that insane to

399
00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:51.039
say? You know? What is
amazing to me is for people to say

400
00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:57.519
everything has been faked, everything's fake, and we can't trust anything. Why

401
00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:02.480
if that's the case, why how
do they alter something to show what they're

402
00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:07.880
not going to know even exists for
another fifty years. How do they make

403
00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:13.760
those alterations? How do they what
a great trick? Right? I want

404
00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:15.320
to know that I want to be
able to see fifty years into the future

405
00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:21.119
and alter things so that people will
come to the same conclusion that I want

406
00:35:21.159 --> 00:35:23.920
them to come to, but not
necessarily the truth. Right, So not

407
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:29.280
only would you have to be a
photographic expert and somebody who's quite familiar with

408
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.400
the black arts of Hollywood, but
you'd also need to be psychic Carmina,

409
00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:36.119
I think that's what the skill set
would require. What do you think,

410
00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:38.360
Carmia, Yeah, it's highly improbable. It's kind of like the people who

411
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:44.519
say that all of the documents were
faked. We're working on a timescale here.

412
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:49.159
Yes, there were things that we
can actually prove were changed or that

413
00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:52.599
were lies based on other documents,
but we can't say if you say that

414
00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:55.719
everything was fake, then what you're
operating on faith alone, and that's not

415
00:35:55.760 --> 00:36:00.039
going to prove anything. You need
to have substantial evidence. And as you

416
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:04.400
guys said about the alteration, they
didn't need to alter the X rays because

417
00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:07.559
they screwed them up by using the
portable that was subject distortions. There's a

418
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:12.360
lot of reasons that things were bad
enough they didn't need to be altered.

419
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:17.000
You know, I agree with you, Carmine. Don't you think that if

420
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:22.679
they would have ever known that in
fifty years in the future people would know

421
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:25.519
the things that we know now,
they would have done a lot more than

422
00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:30.159
they have what may have been done. But we have we have a choice.

423
00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:36.000
You know, they didn't think we'd
ever read the Warrant report, much

424
00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:40.239
less have access to the X rays
or to any of the other evidence that

425
00:36:40.280 --> 00:36:44.360
we have, or that people would
come forward and talk about what they saw,

426
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:51.960
that the notes from the Executive Committee
would ever be released. Don't you

427
00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:57.159
think that they're because they could not
possibly know all those things that people that

428
00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:04.119
always want to raise the everything is
altered flag that there may be some misconceptions

429
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:07.280
there or am I wrong? No? No, I wholly agree with that.

430
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:10.679
I think that that's one of the
big problems. Unfortunately, on the

431
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:15.519
fringe side of those who support a
conspiracy, they don't want to believe in

432
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:19.320
anything. But if you're not going
to believe in anything except your own opinions,

433
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:22.320
you're never going to verify anything unless
you're never going to prove anything.

434
00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:24.679
You know. We can slap each
other's backs and agree with each other all

435
00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:29.440
day, but until we can produce
some substantial evidence, we're not going to

436
00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:31.920
be able to get the attention of
those who are not sure. And those

437
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:36.440
are the people that need to be
brought the evidence so that they can form

438
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:38.960
a reasonable opinion based on it,
rather than just saying it's all not true.

439
00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:42.199
Just believe what I have to say. People who want you to believe

440
00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:45.199
aren't trying to actually help you.
They just want you to believe what their

441
00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:50.039
ideas are. Yeah, I think
that there are many many people that are

442
00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:54.679
so vested in their belief they feel
like they can't say that they're wrong.

443
00:37:55.360 --> 00:38:00.400
They just can't. They're so entrenched
in where they all are. And you

444
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:06.559
know a great example of that,
and I hope you guys don't mind if

445
00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:09.880
I bring this up, but a
great example of that is people that look

446
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:15.079
at the X rays. There's so
much Now do I believe that the X

447
00:38:15.159 --> 00:38:20.320
rays have been altered? I think
that there's something fishy about the X rays.

448
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:24.199
But at the same time, I
know that the X rays prove a

449
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:30.480
front shot. They prove one shot. Why if the X rays prove one

450
00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:35.119
shot improve a front shot, if
they were going to alter them, why

451
00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:42.039
would they not alter that? Yeah, I believe that the that what we

452
00:38:42.199 --> 00:38:45.960
should see as a defect in the
rear of the head is not there.

453
00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:50.719
I believe that. I think that
that part is altered. But the front

454
00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:55.239
part of the X ray we know
is President Kennedy, and we can look

455
00:38:55.400 --> 00:39:02.599
at the information that's provided to us
in the fracture sequencing, which is the

456
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:09.280
fracturing of the skull and the distribution
of the bullet fragments, and they prove

457
00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:15.079
a front shot. Now, why
would they not change that information? You

458
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:20.800
know why they didn't change it because
I didn't know it existed at that point.

459
00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:24.480
That's one of the problems with that. Of course, what you're referencing

460
00:39:24.519 --> 00:39:29.360
in part is is some of the
work that like people like David Mantik have

461
00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:34.800
done. Now, I'll put aside
the idea of the patch because you know,

462
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:37.840
we've heard this discussed many times and
I'm not sure what to make of

463
00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:42.400
it. I'll be honest with you. However, the idea that we may

464
00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:45.639
be looking at the same X ray
having been flipped over and then made a

465
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:52.559
copy of that looks like a possibility
to me. Very strange, you know.

466
00:39:52.719 --> 00:39:57.199
And here's the thing. The things
were not great quality to begin with.

467
00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:00.440
I mean I've shown different copies of
these to people who work in that

468
00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:05.280
field just to get their opinions about
them, not even told them what they

469
00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:07.280
were looking at, but just to
have them tell me what it is they

470
00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:12.639
see, you know, blind observations. And then I've also done the same

471
00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:16.280
thing and told them what they were
looking at. And it's interesting because the

472
00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:21.920
ones that I told they were looking
at X rays of Kennedy, they told

473
00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:24.639
me that they had a hard time
believing that that's what they were looking at.

474
00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:30.440
Now, why is that? Does
they have a preconceived notion of what

475
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:37.079
happened? Possibly? Right, That's
exactly what the conclusion I came to.

476
00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:45.119
But what's interesting here is we could
agree easily that there is something wrong with

477
00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:47.360
these X rays, whether you want
to say that they were poorly done,

478
00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:52.960
which I have not had anybody tell
me that they look like very good X

479
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:55.400
rays when you don't look at the
enhanced copies. Okay, I'm not talking

480
00:40:55.400 --> 00:41:00.719
about those ones that are you know, stark, and I think they were

481
00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:04.400
redone by what was it was it
I Tech Corporation or something like that.

482
00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:07.880
I think they redid them for the
House Select Committee, I'm pretty sure.

483
00:41:08.599 --> 00:41:14.679
But when you look at the original, these things are very difficult to uh,

484
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:19.480
to make determinations about a lot of
things, okay, unless one studies

485
00:41:19.519 --> 00:41:22.400
them in depth. And of course
I only had copies. Of course,

486
00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:24.519
it would be much better if somebody
was able to see the original films,

487
00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:30.599
all right, uh, And and
that would determine a whole set of new

488
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:37.639
possibilities for somebody looking at them.
But yeah, go ahead. I just

489
00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:40.239
wanted to say, also, I
think we should factor in two that beyond

490
00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:46.159
the distortions, we also have missing
pictures reported by almost everyone that was a

491
00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:53.199
major player in the autopsy Boswell,
think Hume's Stringer, Jenkins, Spencer.

492
00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:57.599
You know, there there were two
sets handed out, so one set went

493
00:41:57.639 --> 00:42:00.239
to the White House, one set
went to Anacosta. So now we've got

494
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:04.079
two sets of prints that get mixed
in. Everyone talks about missing pictures,

495
00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:07.519
and they talk about I think the
alterations to the X ray tune might be

496
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:12.360
explained also by not only just the
distortions, but at some points they reconstructed

497
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:15.480
the skull and took pictures. So
those are the pictures that definitely survive that

498
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:20.159
we can verify, but the collection
is not verified. There are pictures that

499
00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:22.599
have been mixed in, pictures that
have been left out. There's one document

500
00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:27.800
that I talk about a little bit
in my book where Hume's, Humes,

501
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:30.360
Fink, and Stringer, and Boswell
all signed an agreement that there were no

502
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:35.079
pictures missing. And in the same
thing Ramsey Clark tells the Justice Department that

503
00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:39.239
everybody's on board and we won't be
mentioning the one picture that Hume said was

504
00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:44.599
missing. So in the document they
say that there's a picture missing, So

505
00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:46.719
we know there's I think that you
know, maybe it was just the things

506
00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:52.400
that were supportive of the commission that
perhaps survived or got out to the public

507
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:57.719
well right, And Sherry makes an
excellent point that they did not know that

508
00:42:57.800 --> 00:43:00.480
there was other evidence in there,
so could there be hampering on many levels.

509
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:07.760
It doesn't necessarily mean that everything was
manufactured from ground zero here exactly.

510
00:43:08.159 --> 00:43:13.320
They have a neptitude factored into part
of this. I mean the nature of

511
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:15.840
the individuals that were given to do
the autopsy, the nature of the individuals

512
00:43:16.119 --> 00:43:21.800
who actually took the X rays,
there is all kinds of possibilities and questions

513
00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:24.360
one could raise there, the choice
of equipment, the choice of location.

514
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:29.760
They don't found any of the important
measurements. They don't do a full dissection

515
00:43:29.880 --> 00:43:31.679
of the trachea, they don't take
out all of the thoracic organs that they

516
00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:36.960
were supposed to. They give very
strange landmarks. I mean, Sherry,

517
00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:39.079
do me a favor to stop me
here if I'm saying something that doesn't make

518
00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:45.239
sense to you. Now, you're
absolutely right. Both of you are really

519
00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:50.039
on point. The things that you're
bringing up absolutely are things that if you

520
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:55.719
really look at this, they're going
to raise red flags for you right in

521
00:43:55.840 --> 00:44:00.400
multiple directions. Absolutely. A couple
of things I want to mention here because

522
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:05.400
time is flying by quickly. First
of all, if you guys want to

523
00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:07.719
join in on the discussion two p
one eight three three nine eight five two

524
00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:13.679
five, I have the the phone
lines open at two one eight three three

525
00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:16.679
nine eight five two five. I'll
be happy to add in your questions or

526
00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:21.800
comments during the course of the show, uh, at any point. The

527
00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:23.679
other thing is, though, Sherry, I really want to get though at

528
00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:27.880
your mind for a moment, and
uh, you know, have we have

529
00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:31.360
we struck upon the things that you
think are most important about the misunderstandings and

530
00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:38.119
misconceptions and therefore the mythology here regarding
the medical evidence, regarding the forensic evidence.

531
00:44:38.519 --> 00:44:43.119
There's something else that we need to
talk about good And this is fairly

532
00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:47.360
new, so for people that are
not familiar with this, I'm probably going

533
00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:52.400
to be like maybe saying bringing up
Oh my god, I can't believe she's

534
00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:58.039
saying this thing. But I want
to tell you that David Mantik did a

535
00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:02.440
presentation at JFK Answer November in Dallas
this past year, and I was very

536
00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:10.440
disappointed in the information that he presented. For one thing, he misconstrued information

537
00:45:12.039 --> 00:45:15.280
and misinterprets information that is outside his
scope of expertise. And this is not

538
00:45:15.400 --> 00:45:19.880
the first time that he's done this, and it certainly wasn't the first time

539
00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:23.119
that I've ever had to address that
with him at a conference, because I

540
00:45:23.159 --> 00:45:29.639
had to do the same thing during
the fiftieth At the fiftieth he misconstrued how

541
00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:35.519
bullets fragment and the type of pattern
and what that pattern looks like in an

542
00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:38.199
X ray. He was absolutely wrong. Had to admit that he was wrong,

543
00:45:38.599 --> 00:45:44.000
and actually at the fiftieth said you
may have the remaining time of my

544
00:45:44.119 --> 00:45:50.639
presentation to present the correct information.
So that's pretty significant. And now he's

545
00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:54.599
doing the same thing again. He
has a book that's an ebook, it's

546
00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:59.679
really just an article, but at
any rate it is available. And in

547
00:45:59.800 --> 00:46:06.400
that where he makes a couple of
things statements that are that are it's disheartening

548
00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:09.840
for me because he's talking outside of
his area of expertise, and he's presented

549
00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:19.039
presenting erroneous information. If you are
an expert in a field, you need

550
00:46:19.039 --> 00:46:22.039
to stay in that field. No
one can ever come to me and say,

551
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:23.960
Sherry, I heard you talk about
something outside of your field of expertise

552
00:46:24.039 --> 00:46:28.920
because I've never done it. No
one can do that. I mean,

553
00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:30.880
you may have asked me things in
the in the past and I've said that's

554
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:35.800
outside my area of expertise. I
can't comment on it. But one of

555
00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:40.400
the things that he says is that
he proposes that there's three headshots, but

556
00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:46.840
he doesn't produce any evidence to support
that. In fact, he says that

557
00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:52.000
one of the reasons that he gives
for an argument for a successful rear shot

558
00:46:52.119 --> 00:46:57.920
is present presidence of debris. Talking
about bloody debris on the inside of the

559
00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:01.320
windshield and on the hood ornament.
Actually it's all over the front of the

560
00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:05.079
car, not just on the hood
ornament, but all over both sides,

561
00:47:05.159 --> 00:47:09.239
inside the windshoe, out on the
outside edges of the car, on the

562
00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:15.760
top, and across the trunk.
And he says that a front shot could

563
00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:22.880
not create that type of blood spatter, but he's erroneous because he doesn't understand

564
00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:30.719
how blood spatter works. He also
talks about blood spatter from a shot that

565
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:37.719
would create blood spatter being deposited on
Bobby Hargas could only happen from the grassy

566
00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:43.360
knoll, which is another indication that
he does not really understand that he doesn't

567
00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:47.320
understand woon ballistics. And so this
is what I'm saying, I don't and

568
00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:53.039
David I and I are in a
dialogue right now to help him to have

569
00:47:53.079 --> 00:47:58.719
a better understanding and to make some
corrections to the statements that he's making,

570
00:47:58.760 --> 00:48:01.159
because you know what, here's a
dear, It's not about being right.

571
00:48:02.199 --> 00:48:08.440
It's about having the right information available
to people. And so that is what

572
00:48:08.719 --> 00:48:15.480
I am trying to do. But
you can't go to a plumber and ask

573
00:48:15.559 --> 00:48:21.760
them about electricity. Okay, No, And I don't go to my dentist

574
00:48:22.039 --> 00:48:27.079
when I need an MRI. So
what I'm trying to say is that we

575
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:30.920
need to look to the experts in
the field. And David Mantick has expertise,

576
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:37.119
but it certainly is not in roomballistics, nor is it in blood spatter.

577
00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:40.800
Well no, And in all fairness, I would say that looking at

578
00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:46.199
the X rays. If he's examining
the X rays, I say again,

579
00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:52.000
there, I think he has,
you know, good ground to stand on

580
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:57.559
because that is one of the things
he does as a part of his professional

581
00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:02.440
existence. I mean, so his
examination of the X rays I find to

582
00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:08.519
be useful. Okay. However,
he also had to admit at the latest

583
00:49:08.679 --> 00:49:15.719
NID conference that he did not know
what fracture patterns were and he did not

584
00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:21.920
understand how that could show you the
direction or the number of gunshot injuries to

585
00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:28.320
the head. So there's a lot
of controversy going on right now. I

586
00:49:28.360 --> 00:49:34.679
think that I just and I mentioned
this because I want people to really dig

587
00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:39.920
deep and look, don't trust me, don't trust David, don't trust anybody

588
00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:46.079
else. Do your own research,
decide for yourself what the truth is.

589
00:49:46.519 --> 00:49:53.360
There's lots of opportunity for us.
You can do Google searches, you can

590
00:49:53.400 --> 00:49:57.039
go to the library, you can
check out books. You know, you

591
00:49:57.079 --> 00:50:01.559
can talk to people. If you're
going to be a researcher, whom I'm

592
00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:05.239
not a researcher, but if you've
got to be a researcher, then you

593
00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:12.119
need to actually make that word a
verb. Yes you do. And you

594
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:15.719
know that is an amazing thing that
fracture patterns are not part of his understanding,

595
00:50:16.679 --> 00:50:21.800
because even I know, and again
I'm not an expert, but even

596
00:50:21.880 --> 00:50:25.840
I know that this is one of
the key elements here in understanding what it

597
00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:31.559
is you're looking at regarding the wounds. They're there. Look, and it's

598
00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:36.159
not just a matter of okay,
it radiates from an area and that's it.

599
00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:38.800
It doesn't work like that. The
nature of how far it goes,

600
00:50:39.400 --> 00:50:46.760
the nature of interceding fractures in the
pattern, like the bones break away at

601
00:50:46.760 --> 00:50:51.360
certain points. And I mean a
lot of people have described Kennedy's skull as

602
00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:54.159
having been fractured like a hard boiled
egg when you roll it on a counter.

603
00:50:55.280 --> 00:51:00.079
You know, all of these things, the nature of them, the

604
00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:04.639
order in which they happened, which
can be determined based on a forensic examination,

605
00:51:05.239 --> 00:51:10.039
which unfortunately would be best done by
examining the skull firsthand. But all

606
00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:15.920
of these things are part of the
factors with which one could determine the directionality,

607
00:51:16.360 --> 00:51:23.440
the order in which injuries occurred exactly
the nature of the missile even is

608
00:51:23.519 --> 00:51:29.679
determined or is evident in these determinations
as well. I mean, unless I'm

609
00:51:30.199 --> 00:51:34.519
out of my mind here' seriat,
I mean, am I right? You

610
00:51:34.639 --> 00:51:38.880
are right? And I think it's
important for everyone to have the same kind

611
00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:45.360
of understanding that you have. If
you're going to use something as evidence to

612
00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:49.719
prove a headshot, regardless of where
the direction is, you really need to

613
00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:53.360
have a complete understanding. And it's
not enough just to say I believe this.

614
00:51:53.960 --> 00:51:57.039
We need to be able to prove
it. We need to be able

615
00:51:57.079 --> 00:52:04.199
to put citations forward and say this
is what helps me to understand because I

616
00:52:04.239 --> 00:52:07.360
never ask people to believe me as
an expert, even in my own book.

617
00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:14.199
And one of the people that one
of the peer reviews that we're looking

618
00:52:14.199 --> 00:52:16.079
at my book, one of my
teers said, I don't understand why you're

619
00:52:16.159 --> 00:52:20.960
using all these references because you are
an expert. You are published in this

620
00:52:21.039 --> 00:52:22.639
field, you can just say this
that it's true. You don't have to

621
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:27.440
do that. But I don't want
people to believe me. I want them

622
00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:32.880
to believe me and the scientific community
as a whole, because that is what

623
00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:39.239
is going to bring real confidence to
people in the information that they're receiving well.

624
00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:43.320
Right, And when it comes to
any of these areas of study,

625
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:45.000
let's just say this because we're about
ready to run out of time on this

626
00:52:45.159 --> 00:52:49.440
hour. But when it comes to
any of these areas of study, not

627
00:52:49.480 --> 00:52:55.679
only must one understand how to find
the evidence, but how to interpret it

628
00:52:55.719 --> 00:53:02.559
is also a big part of being
able to present it. Okay, this

629
00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:06.639
is one of those things. See, this is why evidence is important,

630
00:53:07.079 --> 00:53:10.320
because not only do you need to
have evidence which is verifiable, but you

631
00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:15.079
need to be able to interpret it
as well. That's another thing that goes

632
00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:17.320
on here, and that's why there
are so many misunderstandings. I would say,

633
00:53:19.320 --> 00:53:22.159
Sherry, if you want to stick
around for the next hour a bit,

634
00:53:22.360 --> 00:53:24.960
you know you can. We may
get into some areas that I don't

635
00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:29.559
know you might find amusing, but
I'd be more than happy to get your

636
00:53:29.599 --> 00:53:32.360
take on some of them, that's
for sure. But it may get a

637
00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:36.119
little strange, and I don't know
if you want to be part of it,

638
00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:42.440
but Carmine, you're gonna stick with
me, right yep. Absolutely,

639
00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:45.719
So that's the first hour. Sherry
Feaster, who I'm telling you right now.

640
00:53:45.880 --> 00:53:49.639
Enemy of the Truth is a book
that you need if you want to

641
00:53:49.679 --> 00:53:53.400
try and understand the physical nature of
the evidence and the Kennedy assassination. The

642
00:53:53.480 --> 00:54:09.480
o'celly effect will continue in the second
hour, Stick Around Guys, Underrated voice

643
00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:19.400
in all Media, the alternatives alternative
Chuck o'lly. And so the second hour

644
00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:23.079
of the O'Kelly effect begins here on
this Saturday evening. I don't know when

645
00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:28.199
it is you the listener are hearing
it. If you're catching it further on

646
00:54:28.280 --> 00:54:31.679
down the line, you are also
appreciated. But we are broadcasting alive here

647
00:54:31.719 --> 00:54:37.159
on this Saturday evening. So,
and I guess it's just after one o'clock

648
00:54:37.599 --> 00:54:40.639
to our listeners in Australia. Not
sure what day it is, but it's

649
00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:45.159
just after one pm, so you
guys have just finished lunch there down Under.

650
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:47.559
That's what I understand. By the
way, I think we're being heard

651
00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:52.239
on six continents right now, So
good evening. Gooday, how are you

652
00:54:52.519 --> 00:55:02.199
and all those other greetings still journal
and all of that, and hey,

653
00:55:02.599 --> 00:55:07.400
I am so happy that you're with
us here for Myths number six. So

654
00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:12.480
far we have discussed a great deal
about the forensics and a few other side

655
00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:16.639
issues got worked into it there.
When one takes a look at what can

656
00:55:16.679 --> 00:55:22.280
be observable from a scientific standpoint,
and we did that with Sherry Feaster,

657
00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:27.599
who is hanging around with us for
the second hour. I'm not sure if

658
00:55:27.599 --> 00:55:30.119
she's going to want to really participate
in some of this stuff. So if

659
00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:35.000
you don't hear, it's not because
I'm keeping her quiet. It's because guess

660
00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:38.400
what, folks, she said during
that first hour that if you're not speaking

661
00:55:38.440 --> 00:55:43.639
in your field of expertise, and
that is what you are putting out there

662
00:55:43.719 --> 00:55:49.400
as your contribution into this discussion,
hey, sometimes it's good not to speak

663
00:55:49.559 --> 00:55:52.880
when you're going way outside of what
it is. You know. Found it

664
00:55:52.960 --> 00:56:00.440
rather shocking that she was discussing David
Mantick and his suppositions and revealing to us

665
00:56:00.480 --> 00:56:07.840
that, quite honestly, he had
not utilized a rather essential point that that

666
00:56:07.960 --> 00:56:13.239
one needs to comprehend, that one
needs to factor in when examining things like

667
00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:16.599
the bones the X rays. Of
course, we can't examine the bones directly

668
00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:20.800
of John F. Kennedy's head,
so we all have the X rays to

669
00:56:20.840 --> 00:56:24.559
contend with. But when examining those
X rays and looking at fracture patterns,

670
00:56:25.039 --> 00:56:30.679
I can't tell you how essential that
is from my understanding, of course,

671
00:56:30.679 --> 00:56:35.440
as a layman trying to study this
and also looking into in a very cursory

672
00:56:35.440 --> 00:56:43.320
fashion the disciplines that that Sherry you
know, professionally partook of. You know,

673
00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:47.679
I even have a basic understanding that
allows me to know that guess what,

674
00:56:50.159 --> 00:56:54.159
you know that this is necessary.
This is a necessary factor that you

675
00:56:54.280 --> 00:57:00.119
have no idea about. And wow, anyway we're going to move forward or

676
00:57:00.280 --> 00:57:07.320
because I was asked about this particular
documentary, now this is not going to

677
00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:10.679
be a singular subject. This is
going to touch on a lot of different

678
00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:15.360
things. Carmine, I know you've
got a chance to take a look at

679
00:57:15.440 --> 00:57:25.119
it. But hang on the way, Okay, we all have to take

680
00:57:25.159 --> 00:57:30.480
a deep breath because JFK to nine
to eleven, it's all a rich man's

681
00:57:30.519 --> 00:57:35.599
trick or something like this. I
got I can't even I don't even want

682
00:57:35.639 --> 00:57:40.239
to memorize the title. We're not
even going to discuss the nine to eleven

683
00:57:40.280 --> 00:57:44.840
portion of this, okay, because
well, look, I can do that

684
00:57:44.920 --> 00:57:49.280
on another show if you want.
But we won't even have enough time,

685
00:57:49.480 --> 00:57:58.760
honestly, to really dig into every
single solitary problem with the JFK assassination portion

686
00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:06.800
JMK problems to work on. We
don't even need to try to illuminate anything

687
00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:13.519
about now, oh, myths seven
might actually take up the rest the rest

688
00:58:13.559 --> 00:58:16.280
of this discussion. And I also
see that we have Rob Clark waiting in

689
00:58:16.320 --> 00:58:21.800
the wings, the host of the
Lone Gunman podcast. And what do you

690
00:58:21.800 --> 00:58:24.760
think, Carla, should I just
bring him right on in? Okay,

691
00:58:24.920 --> 00:58:30.599
let's bring Rob Clark in, the
host of the Loan Gunman podcast. Who

692
00:58:31.199 --> 00:58:35.440
is Let's see you can access him
on speaker. I'm not sure if it's

693
00:58:35.440 --> 00:58:39.840
a TLG podcast dot com still,
but I do know you can find TLG

694
00:58:40.039 --> 00:58:45.199
or the Loan Gunman Podcast on spreaker. And hey, I was even a

695
00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:52.800
guest on there not too long ago. How you doing, Rob? Oh?

696
00:58:53.000 --> 00:59:00.599
Okay, might have a little difficulty
with the line there, Carmine.

697
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:05.320
He's still with me though, right, yep, I'm still there Okay,

698
00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:09.559
no problem. We will get Rob
Clark on shortly. Uh, and of

699
00:59:09.599 --> 00:59:13.280
course any other callers that want to
join us. At two point eight three

700
00:59:13.400 --> 00:59:17.840
three nine eight five two five two
one eight three three nine eight five two

701
00:59:17.920 --> 00:59:22.280
five that is the open line if
you want to join into the discussion,

702
00:59:24.239 --> 00:59:28.000
Carmine, where do we begin?
See I gotta take that deep breath to

703
00:59:28.199 --> 00:59:31.840
where do we begin? With this
rich Man's trick JFK to nine to eleven,

704
00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:36.480
excluding the nine to eleven portion.
Well, I'd like to use some

705
00:59:36.519 --> 00:59:39.159
of the films. As you know, I'm often a fan of using people's

706
00:59:39.480 --> 00:59:45.719
own evidence against their pet ideas.
Oh, here we go, let us

707
00:59:45.920 --> 00:59:51.039
let us begin with the film's suppositions. Yes, the film claims. One

708
00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:54.519
of its big claims is that some
books and films that it endorses, such

709
00:59:54.519 --> 01:00:00.800
as The Men Who Killed Kennedy,
prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that

710
01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:06.639
what occurred is a physical impossibility as
endorsed that. So basically they're saying that

711
01:00:06.800 --> 01:00:15.800
nothing beyond those films and whatever books
they endorse proves they're what they can tend

712
01:00:15.800 --> 01:00:20.280
the many contentions that we will go
into, and I would want to say

713
01:00:20.280 --> 01:00:23.719
this assertion is incorrect, and it
relies upon the verifiable evidence of each of

714
01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:29.960
its sources. Well, yeah,
problematic anyway, because look, the Men

715
01:00:29.960 --> 01:00:37.199
Who Killed Kennedy for its time when
it was first produced, was rather revolutionary,

716
01:00:37.360 --> 01:00:39.960
let's just say, because it had, for the first time presented a

717
01:00:40.079 --> 01:00:49.960
lot of theories which were in direct
opposition to the loan gunman solution, to

718
01:00:50.079 --> 01:00:53.880
the loan nut solution, the loan
nut theory that is presented by the Warrant

719
01:00:53.880 --> 01:00:59.079
Commission. So it was interesting to
see all these things brought together. Now,

720
01:00:59.119 --> 01:01:01.559
of course A and E and the
History Channel brought it to America.

721
01:01:01.679 --> 01:01:07.239
Was originally produced by Nigel Turner,
you know BBC guy, all that good

722
01:01:07.239 --> 01:01:13.440
stuff. And honestly, in the
early days of my studies, when when

723
01:01:13.480 --> 01:01:17.760
this stuff was being brought around,
okay, you know, I thought to

724
01:01:17.880 --> 01:01:25.199
myself that that we had, that
we had something interesting to present here.

725
01:01:25.239 --> 01:01:30.199
But if one examines just that,
and we'll leave aside the books they endorse,

726
01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:34.880
because that could be a rabbit hole
that will never get out of.

727
01:01:35.440 --> 01:01:37.280
But when one looks at the The
Men Who Killed Kennedy, there are a

728
01:01:37.320 --> 01:01:43.800
great many assertions in there, including
that which we should have dispossessed you of

729
01:01:43.840 --> 01:01:46.960
in the first hour, the idea
that the headshot was scored from the grassy

730
01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:52.039
knoll, you know, the idea
that that it was the Badgeman figure who

731
01:01:52.039 --> 01:02:01.239
did it, that it was jee
Malcolm Wallace Baker, Judith Baker was part

732
01:02:01.280 --> 01:02:08.960
of the series. Uh, the
mouser having fired the shot. My my,

733
01:02:08.960 --> 01:02:16.559
my alterations of the physical body so
that someone else could be photographed.

734
01:02:16.760 --> 01:02:22.760
I mean, yipes. Okay,
again, we have a lot of fakery

735
01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:25.079
being brought up. And what did
we deal with in the first hour that

736
01:02:25.239 --> 01:02:32.320
not all of the evidence is faked. I would I would go beyond that

737
01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:36.440
to say a majority is not.
I'd say, if anything, it's a

738
01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:39.920
minority, and it's only going to
be key pieces that can destroy their case.

739
01:02:40.239 --> 01:02:43.920
If you're going to fake something,
you don't fake every little thing.

740
01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:50.920
You fake the major pieces of evidence
that need to be changed. Right,

741
01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:58.760
And inconsistency and incongruity is not it
is not a definite you know sign that

742
01:02:58.840 --> 01:03:01.719
everything was created out of whole cloth. See it goes back. See this

743
01:03:01.800 --> 01:03:07.159
is why Sherry was perfect in the
first hour, because it all goes back

744
01:03:07.199 --> 01:03:13.960
to you can't sit there and manufacture
this stuff, okay, and wind up

745
01:03:13.960 --> 01:03:19.000
with it matching you know, techniques
and examinations that weren't even dreamed of at

746
01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:22.480
the time that this stuff had to
have been manufactured. Okay, et cetera,

747
01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:25.840
et cetera. So okay, there's
the opening conclusion of that film,

748
01:03:25.840 --> 01:03:30.440
and I think we have Rob Clark
with us. Now, Rob, can

749
01:03:30.519 --> 01:03:32.480
you hear me now? Yeah?
I can hear you now, sir.

750
01:03:36.079 --> 01:03:39.639
Right, we started the discussion in
case you missed it on the rich Man's

751
01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:45.760
Trick JFK to nine to eleven,
And yes, did you have to sit

752
01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:50.639
and suffer through this? I did? Thank you for the torture today.

753
01:03:50.840 --> 01:03:54.719
For sure, You're most welcome.
I'm always happy to help my friends to

754
01:03:55.000 --> 01:04:00.880
remember why it is they want to
look for verifiable, provable things, things

755
01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:04.599
that are worthy of examination. I
feel like I'm playing the twenty five thousand

756
01:04:04.599 --> 01:04:15.360
dollars pyramid. Okay, but here
we go, Rob. We talked about

757
01:04:15.360 --> 01:04:19.280
the opening set of it, the
men who killed Kennedy and these books proving

758
01:04:19.400 --> 01:04:23.719
without a you know, beyond the
shadow of a doubt, that there was

759
01:04:24.039 --> 01:04:30.239
no physical possibility for the shots who
have been fired by Oswald as shown.

760
01:04:30.800 --> 01:04:33.480
Meanwhile, you know, I have
a question here, Karma, do you

761
01:04:33.559 --> 01:04:40.639
recall, because I don't Sherry's work
having been brought up in there. No

762
01:04:40.639 --> 01:04:43.519
no, okay, no, good, no good, No, there was

763
01:04:43.599 --> 01:04:49.199
there was nothing credible that was brought
up ons in that film, thank you.

764
01:04:49.280 --> 01:04:53.480
That was my next point. Okay, that's why Sherry's Sherry's book was

765
01:04:53.519 --> 01:04:56.360
not brought up or her work or
you know, the fact that somebody who

766
01:04:56.400 --> 01:05:00.320
was a trained crime scene investigator might
have actually taken a look at the No,

767
01:05:00.159 --> 01:05:02.079
no, no, let's not bother
with that. That makes absolutely no

768
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:08.000
sense. Okay, So no,
they were they were drawing from what you

769
01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:11.960
know. Another one of the improbable
things that they were talking about was eight

770
01:05:12.239 --> 01:05:17.599
riflemen. They said that eight riflemen, including such names as Frank Sturgis,

771
01:05:17.639 --> 01:05:24.039
who that's just so funny when you
really know who Sturgis was. But uh

772
01:05:24.840 --> 01:05:29.519
or a small unseen army of shooters, and I can't state how highly improbable

773
01:05:29.559 --> 01:05:31.559
that is. You know, a
neglectsic account for the ballistics and things that

774
01:05:31.599 --> 01:05:34.760
Cherry would definitely know more about than
I. Forensic evidence and the majority of

775
01:05:34.760 --> 01:05:40.199
consistent witness testimony. Nobody saw a
small army from you know, three various

776
01:05:40.239 --> 01:05:44.719
buildings in multiple locations firing m Well, you know what, let me let

777
01:05:44.719 --> 01:05:46.480
me pass that question to Sherry.
I think she's back with us, now,

778
01:05:46.519 --> 01:05:51.159
Sharry, are you there? Oh
okay, I thought she was back

779
01:05:51.199 --> 01:05:55.679
with us. But you know,
when she does get back, I want

780
01:05:55.679 --> 01:06:00.119
to ask her about whether there is
observable evidence. Oh now I hear you.

781
01:06:00.199 --> 01:06:04.480
Yes, you must have seen yes, I'm sorry. I want to

782
01:06:04.480 --> 01:06:12.960
ask you about this veritable army of
shooters right that these people propose, because

783
01:06:13.719 --> 01:06:17.800
well, here's my question. It's
very simple. Ready, you've examined the

784
01:06:17.960 --> 01:06:23.519
forensic evidence as it stands that is
available. You know that is accessible.

785
01:06:23.599 --> 01:06:29.639
Obviously you didn't examine President Kennedy's body, probably did not examine the limousine first

786
01:06:29.679 --> 01:06:32.960
hand yourself. But based on the
photographs, based on the X rays,

787
01:06:33.000 --> 01:06:40.360
based on the films, based on
the reports, right, all of these

788
01:06:40.400 --> 01:06:45.760
things, let me ask you a
question. Do you see evidence anywhere for

789
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:51.719
a small army of shooters having fired
upon President Kennedy at that time in Daily

790
01:06:51.760 --> 01:06:58.159
Plaza on November twenty second, nineteen
sixty three. No, I don't I

791
01:06:58.320 --> 01:07:05.239
see one front which probably was responsible
for the head well, absolutely responsible for

792
01:07:05.280 --> 01:07:13.360
the head shot. I mean,
there's no doubt whatsoever for that likely for

793
01:07:13.480 --> 01:07:18.000
the throat shot, and I think
we have a rear shooter, but I

794
01:07:18.039 --> 01:07:21.599
don't know that we can definitely say
if there was one or two rear shooters.

795
01:07:21.960 --> 01:07:27.800
And that's based upon the trajectory analysis
that was done by Thomas Canning,

796
01:07:28.440 --> 01:07:33.639
because he presented to the House Select
Committee more than one trajectory analysis for the

797
01:07:33.760 --> 01:07:41.239
rear shots to Kennedy and Conley.
So at the very most, I think

798
01:07:41.280 --> 01:07:45.559
we could say four shooters. But
I think more likely is that we're talking

799
01:07:45.559 --> 01:07:49.519
about two. Well two, and
here's we're I'll make an allowance that we

800
01:07:49.559 --> 01:07:55.400
could add to those two. Right, Let's let's give a little bit of

801
01:07:55.440 --> 01:08:00.639
allowance for the possibility of a missed
shot. Okay, let's just assume that

802
01:08:00.679 --> 01:08:05.440
one shot completely missed everything, and
we can easily do that by something verifiable,

803
01:08:05.480 --> 01:08:10.400
and that would be well, sorry, but my discussions with a guy

804
01:08:10.480 --> 01:08:15.119
named James Tag would tell me that
there's a good possibility that there was a

805
01:08:15.159 --> 01:08:19.800
missed shot. Is it, you
know, completely reliable based on his testimony.

806
01:08:19.920 --> 01:08:26.520
No, but the idea that there
may have been a missed shot is

807
01:08:26.720 --> 01:08:30.479
possible, And hey, well let's
give him two I think is possible.

808
01:08:30.800 --> 01:08:34.880
But let me let me make a
correction real quick. I misspoke. I

809
01:08:34.920 --> 01:08:39.880
want to say three shooters, maybe
two from the back, one from the

810
01:08:39.880 --> 01:08:45.119
front. Okay, maybe two from
the rear. So do I think there

811
01:08:45.199 --> 01:08:47.520
was a shot that that missed totally? Yes, I do. I think

812
01:08:47.560 --> 01:08:55.880
that tag was evidence of that exactly. So let's just imagine for a moment

813
01:08:56.520 --> 01:09:00.880
that that you do have a shooter
from another location, because I do believe

814
01:09:00.880 --> 01:09:06.960
there's enough evidence to begin to believe
that there is a shot which landed on

815
01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:13.079
the turf opposite from what they call
the grassy knoll. Now, I don't

816
01:09:13.119 --> 01:09:16.479
see and have never witnessed evidence for
anything more than and this is a wild

817
01:09:16.520 --> 01:09:24.479
speculation on my part. Folks.
Uh four shooters? Four shooters? Now,

818
01:09:25.279 --> 01:09:28.319
what was the size of that veritable
army? Again, Carmine, did

819
01:09:28.319 --> 01:09:31.960
they give us eight? I believe
eight? They They didn't just state they

820
01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:39.079
think there was eight shooters. They
named who named there? Yes, eight

821
01:09:39.159 --> 01:09:44.199
shooters, and yeah, one was
Sturgis, one was Malcolm Wallace. It's

822
01:09:44.239 --> 01:09:47.279
like they took every bad idea about
who the shooters were and rolled them up

823
01:09:47.319 --> 01:09:51.479
into one ball. Right, So
that's the idea. So let's dial this

824
01:09:51.560 --> 01:09:57.479
back into what's verifiable. Once again, what Jerry said is that she sees

825
01:09:57.680 --> 01:10:02.960
the possibility based on the forensic evidence
that you have two well two two had

826
01:10:03.000 --> 01:10:06.840
a minimy two two had a minimum, and then three is a possibility,

827
01:10:06.920 --> 01:10:11.760
right, probably three, probably two
from the rear and one from the from

828
01:10:11.760 --> 01:10:16.079
the front. And here's why I'm
saying that, because when Thomas Canning did

829
01:10:16.119 --> 01:10:26.800
the original trajectory analysis through President Kennedy
and for the head shot and for Governor

830
01:10:26.840 --> 01:10:33.640
Conley, his original analysis did not
even include the sixth floor of the Texas

831
01:10:33.680 --> 01:10:39.439
school Book Depository at all. Period. It didn't. It said it was

832
01:10:39.560 --> 01:10:45.199
higher and higher and a little more
to the right, which would be the

833
01:10:45.279 --> 01:10:48.600
dal Tech building for one of the
shots, and the other, he said,

834
01:10:48.720 --> 01:10:55.279
was from another portion another the other
end, if you want to say,

835
01:10:55.399 --> 01:10:59.399
of the Texas school Book Depository.
So that's the two shooters from the

836
01:10:59.439 --> 01:11:02.000
rear. And of course the House
select community did not like that at all

837
01:11:03.199 --> 01:11:08.000
and said, hey, you need
to make some adjustments. And he said,

838
01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:13.119
well, what I will do is
expand my margin of era, and

839
01:11:13.199 --> 01:11:21.319
so he barely included the Texas school
Book Depository on what originally came from the

840
01:11:21.399 --> 01:11:29.439
dal Tech building. When he enlarged
that trajectory analysis, but he never said

841
01:11:30.079 --> 01:11:35.680
I can completely eliminate the other location. Now, of course he thought everything

842
01:11:35.720 --> 01:11:40.439
came from the rear, right,
and this is ah he didn't. He

843
01:11:40.479 --> 01:11:45.520
didn't consider a front shop. But
he did say more than one location.

844
01:11:45.800 --> 01:11:49.079
So that's the two that I would
go with, from the rear and I

845
01:11:49.159 --> 01:11:55.560
and of course the one from the
front. But assuming now now here here's

846
01:11:55.560 --> 01:11:58.640
an assumption I make, and here's
here's where I say, you know,

847
01:11:58.760 --> 01:12:01.680
we could bring it down to two. Possibly still, because Canning is working

848
01:12:01.760 --> 01:12:10.800
with information that is not necessarily as
good as what we have. Now there's

849
01:12:10.840 --> 01:12:14.520
a possibility. I don't know it's
worthy of re examination. But let's even

850
01:12:14.560 --> 01:12:17.560
go with Canning, which, by
the way, just for people's clarification.

851
01:12:17.640 --> 01:12:26.279
House Select Committee on Assassinations, this
revision of scientific evidence. This didn't just

852
01:12:26.319 --> 01:12:30.880
happen in Canning's instance either, By
the way, this kept happening over and

853
01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:34.359
over again, where people would come
to them with conclusions that they did not

854
01:12:34.800 --> 01:12:41.640
fully appreciate, so they'd be asked
to revisit them. That happened a lot,

855
01:12:41.840 --> 01:12:45.000
from what I understand, so I'm
not surprised in the least to hear

856
01:12:45.119 --> 01:12:49.560
that, But okay, let's go
with the three. Fine, you have

857
01:12:49.680 --> 01:12:57.680
three possible purchase based on what is
evident. Okay, I don't know how

858
01:12:57.680 --> 01:13:00.920
you get to eight. I just
don't know how that leap is made.

859
01:13:01.279 --> 01:13:09.479
Apparently you watch eight different bad shows
and you combine all the people into one

860
01:13:09.520 --> 01:13:12.840
idea, and like I said,
it doesn't just stop with them, I

861
01:13:12.920 --> 01:13:17.760
mean it goes on for another consideration. How do eight people to escape without

862
01:13:17.800 --> 01:13:23.279
being seen by anyone? Carmine,
Come on, now, you're asking for

863
01:13:23.279 --> 01:13:26.399
too much. You know, First
of all, you have to accept the

864
01:13:26.439 --> 01:13:30.640
word of a guy like Sturgis,
who uh you know what it would have

865
01:13:30.640 --> 01:13:33.520
told you that he was at the
crucifixion if he thought it was going to

866
01:13:34.199 --> 01:13:38.680
pump up his image, depending on
who he was speaking to. But anyway,

867
01:13:39.239 --> 01:13:42.760
uh, please, you know this
guy, and I'm telling you from

868
01:13:42.840 --> 01:13:45.239
from people that knew him very well, would tell you that, you know,

869
01:13:45.319 --> 01:13:49.520
boastful and kind of being one of
these guys who speaks a little bit

870
01:13:49.560 --> 01:13:53.720
out of school and kind of pumps
himself up as a as a bad guy

871
01:13:54.800 --> 01:14:00.520
was definitely a part of Sturgess as
being so all they have. There is

872
01:14:00.680 --> 01:14:04.800
some alleged admission that he made I
mean nothing putting him in the plaza,

873
01:14:04.880 --> 01:14:12.199
really, no evidence of it,
no arrest record, no witnesses stating truthfully

874
01:14:12.239 --> 01:14:16.359
that they saw him there at the
time, nobody even accounting for him being

875
01:14:16.399 --> 01:14:21.920
in Dallas. But anyway, why
should any of that matter when you're making

876
01:14:23.000 --> 01:14:30.439
a alleged documentary, rob How are
you following all this so far? Well,

877
01:14:30.720 --> 01:14:35.279
what struck me when I first went
to watch that video was how many

878
01:14:35.319 --> 01:14:41.520
people have watched that video. It's
I think it's over two million, approaching

879
01:14:41.520 --> 01:14:45.079
two and a half million people.
Yes, And it just goes to show

880
01:14:45.119 --> 01:14:48.640
you, you know that if you
have enough money, if you have a

881
01:14:48.800 --> 01:14:57.039
very slickly produced video presentation and you
sound somewhat authoritative when you're giving it,

882
01:14:57.960 --> 01:15:02.119
anything is possible. You know,
I've never even heard of this guy before,

883
01:15:02.159 --> 01:15:06.479
whoever made the video, Connolly or
whatever his name is, Richard Connolly,

884
01:15:08.720 --> 01:15:10.880
And uh, you know, as
far as anything to have to do

885
01:15:10.960 --> 01:15:15.920
with the assassination or associated with it. And like you said, I mean,

886
01:15:15.960 --> 01:15:17.640
it's like he took I mean,
now, don't get me wrong,

887
01:15:17.680 --> 01:15:24.239
because watching it, there is some
credible stuff thrown in there, but everything

888
01:15:24.399 --> 01:15:29.000
under the sun is thrown in there, every every outlandish theory, every crazy

889
01:15:29.039 --> 01:15:33.199
theory, every credible theory, every
Fetzer type theory, you know. I

890
01:15:33.199 --> 01:15:42.039
mean, it's like you said,
eight shooters sixteen shots. But yeah,

891
01:15:42.079 --> 01:15:45.159
but I feel like I should be
Grabchal Marx at this point and say,

892
01:15:45.239 --> 01:15:50.640
you said the secret word, because
this is where it seems to all come

893
01:15:50.680 --> 01:15:55.720
from. And I I, well, I'm sorry, I was going to

894
01:15:55.840 --> 01:15:59.000
roll out of my head when when
he said that Richard Nixon and George Bush

895
01:15:59.000 --> 01:16:01.560
were on the sidewalk watching the motorcad. I mean, come on, now,

896
01:16:01.920 --> 01:16:05.039
well that's yeah, of course.
Do you see him coming? I

897
01:16:05.039 --> 01:16:10.600
think he's coming around the corner.
I don't. I don't think that Tricky

898
01:16:10.680 --> 01:16:15.079
Dick and George Bush, who was
busy on a campaign stop, were there.

899
01:16:16.079 --> 01:16:18.800
Yeah. Yeah, I think somebody
would have recognized old Tricky Dick standing

900
01:16:18.840 --> 01:16:21.840
on the sidewalk. I mean,
he had just run for president, you

901
01:16:21.840 --> 01:16:25.880
know, three years before that against
JFK. I mean, come on,

902
01:16:26.479 --> 01:16:29.720
yes, he might be kind of
recognizable, that's for sure. But then

903
01:16:29.720 --> 01:16:31.600
again, there are people that want
to put George W. Bush there as

904
01:16:31.600 --> 01:16:35.479
well. I don't know if you
guys have seen that yet, but hey,

905
01:16:35.560 --> 01:16:41.279
let's let's put everybody in dealy plaza, you know, why not I

906
01:16:41.359 --> 01:16:45.279
say that, of course, you
know, yeah, prominently he was mentioned

907
01:16:45.319 --> 01:16:50.119
in you know, the little party
at Clint Merchant's house the night before.

908
01:16:50.640 --> 01:16:55.039
As you know, there was you
know, these twenty conspirators that were meeting

909
01:16:55.039 --> 01:17:00.199
there, and of course the Medelin
Duncan Brown story, yep, and and

910
01:17:00.279 --> 01:17:03.800
all of that. He's our good
friend, Charles Cliff debunked because Murchison didn't

911
01:17:03.800 --> 01:17:08.520
even own the property when they said
that these parties occurred. Well, you

912
01:17:08.560 --> 01:17:12.319
know, why should that matter whether
he owns the house or not. Hey,

913
01:17:13.000 --> 01:17:15.560
you know, and let's put everybody
in the world there, I mean,

914
01:17:15.600 --> 01:17:17.319
toward the end of her life,
Madeline Duncan Brown. I'm very very

915
01:17:17.359 --> 01:17:23.880
sorry to report, I mean practically
put everybody there except me, I think,

916
01:17:24.399 --> 01:17:28.000
because I mean we had Jaeger Hoover. John J. McCloy was supposedly

917
01:17:28.039 --> 01:17:32.560
there, I mean, geez,
of course LBJ, and well every oil

918
01:17:32.640 --> 01:17:38.319
man in Dallas, and now nobody
noticed, including the Secret Service, the

919
01:17:38.359 --> 01:17:43.239
people that observed, you know,
our friend mister Hoover rather early back to

920
01:17:43.319 --> 01:17:46.199
work the next morning in Washington,
d C. Not looking at in the

921
01:17:46.279 --> 01:17:50.840
least bit tired. After all,
he had been there rather late and things

922
01:17:50.920 --> 01:17:58.479
like that. And I'm sorry,
but you know, Madeline Brown the source

923
01:17:58.600 --> 01:18:01.720
of this parting, although you know, I'm not sure about it because you

924
01:18:01.720 --> 01:18:05.920
know, Penn Jones had talked about
it in the nineteen seventies and I thought

925
01:18:05.920 --> 01:18:10.800
we had disposed of it at that
point, but of course it got a

926
01:18:10.840 --> 01:18:14.720
resurgence in the eighties and the nineties. And I'm sorry to say, you

927
01:18:14.720 --> 01:18:18.960
know again, when one begins to
see, here's the problem when you want

928
01:18:19.000 --> 01:18:25.359
to point to a perpetrator. Okay, and I mean, I don't know

929
01:18:25.479 --> 01:18:29.079
if Sherry would speak about this,
but when you want to look at a

930
01:18:29.079 --> 01:18:33.000
perpetrator, when you want to try
and prove that someone was in a particular

931
01:18:33.119 --> 01:18:40.479
location, and the first thing that
they usually do is look for, you

932
01:18:40.520 --> 01:18:44.039
know, witnesses that say they were
there. Okay, fine. In a

933
01:18:44.079 --> 01:18:48.560
lot of cases, they begin to
study things that might be this positive of

934
01:18:48.600 --> 01:18:53.840
them being there, Like a lot
of people can be eliminated as not being

935
01:18:53.880 --> 01:18:59.600
at the scene of a crime or
at the scene of a conspiratorial discussion in

936
01:18:59.640 --> 01:19:03.560
a lot of cases if you can
literally place them elsewhere. Now I'm not

937
01:19:03.680 --> 01:19:08.600
saying that this is Sherry's area of
expertise. I'm simply saying that, having

938
01:19:08.640 --> 01:19:13.119
worked in law enforcement, though,
you know, Sherry, what would you

939
01:19:13.119 --> 01:19:20.079
have to say about that? I
am, I guess a little shocked that

940
01:19:20.720 --> 01:19:26.880
so many people would buy into the
idea that there may be so many shooters

941
01:19:27.399 --> 01:19:32.720
when there's not any evidence for that. I really don't know what else to

942
01:19:32.760 --> 01:19:38.880
say about that. I'm kind of
taken aback. Well and a perpetrator.

943
01:19:39.359 --> 01:19:42.399
I'm sorry to put a perpetrator at
the scene of the crime, right,

944
01:19:43.640 --> 01:19:48.800
You would look for links forensically,
you might look for witnesses to state that

945
01:19:48.880 --> 01:19:54.680
they were there. Photographic evidence is
a little more readily available now because everything

946
01:19:54.720 --> 01:19:59.399
is videotape, photographed, et cetera
everywhere, But at that time, you

947
01:19:59.439 --> 01:20:03.199
would look for something showing that they
were there. And ever after, in

948
01:20:03.319 --> 01:20:09.079
order to state that someone was emphatically
at a scene, you would want some

949
01:20:09.199 --> 01:20:14.079
sort of well, gee, there's
that word again evidence to back that claim,

950
01:20:14.119 --> 01:20:21.920
wouldn't you. Let's talk about fingerprint
evidence. Let's talk about the guy

951
01:20:23.039 --> 01:20:28.159
Malcolm what's his name, ellis Well, right, one of the alleged shooters

952
01:20:28.159 --> 01:20:32.920
in this solution. Right, our
good friend Charles Malcolm Wallace yeah, all

953
01:20:33.000 --> 01:20:40.880
right, Malcolm Wallace so many years
ago, and now I'm going to really

954
01:20:40.880 --> 01:20:46.399
show my age. Before APHIS was
something that people used every single day.

955
01:20:48.479 --> 01:20:53.880
In Louisiana, there was a woman
who worked for the Batan, New State

956
01:20:53.920 --> 01:21:08.159
Police who sat on the board for
eight for the certification board that internationally certifies

957
01:21:08.199 --> 01:21:15.239
people as fingerprint identified Identification officers.
Okay, I don't want to say her

958
01:21:15.279 --> 01:21:23.600
name, but this woman lived in
Louisiana. I was from Louisiana, and

959
01:21:23.640 --> 01:21:26.720
so I went to her. I
knew, well, obviously I knew her

960
01:21:26.760 --> 01:21:30.239
because I was in law enforcement,
and you know, she worked for state

961
01:21:30.319 --> 01:21:36.199
police and did all the fingerprint stuff, and she was the person there were

962
01:21:36.239 --> 01:21:43.359
four regions the United States for APHIS, and she was the head of one

963
01:21:43.439 --> 01:21:49.039
of those four regions. So not
only did she sit on the board that

964
01:21:49.239 --> 01:21:55.800
developed APHIS for the United States,
but she also was on the board for

965
01:21:55.880 --> 01:22:02.880
a certification of people in all of
the world for certification as an analysts analyst.

966
01:22:04.000 --> 01:22:11.960
And so I took to her the
fingerprints that people say are belonging to

967
01:22:12.159 --> 01:22:20.640
Malcolm Wallace and a known set of
fingerprint latent in or rolled prints, and

968
01:22:20.760 --> 01:22:26.560
said, can you make an identification
out of this, and she said,

969
01:22:26.640 --> 01:22:34.560
no, this is not an identification, which kind of stunned me because I

970
01:22:34.600 --> 01:22:38.319
had heard from so many people.
Oh, no, his fingerprints have been

971
01:22:38.359 --> 01:22:45.760
identified, and they named the person
that made that identification. But honestly,

972
01:22:45.359 --> 01:22:50.000
the way that fingerprint identifications are made
in most states, there's not a certain

973
01:22:50.079 --> 01:22:56.439
number of points, and it is
based upon what the experience of the identifier

974
01:22:56.640 --> 01:23:00.079
is, and that analyst says,
in my experience, this is a match.

975
01:23:01.359 --> 01:23:08.119
In her experience, it wasn't a
match. To the person directly under

976
01:23:08.159 --> 01:23:15.000
her, it wasn't a match.
And to the person immediately under that person,

977
01:23:15.159 --> 01:23:17.680
it was not a match. So
I had three different people look at

978
01:23:17.720 --> 01:23:24.159
this, and I'm not talking about
my local person that works at the police

979
01:23:24.159 --> 01:23:30.199
department down the street. I'm talking
about people that help other people or determine

980
01:23:30.199 --> 01:23:34.039
whether or not other people are experts, and they said it was not a

981
01:23:34.079 --> 01:23:41.079
match. So when people talk to
me about Malcolm Wallace being a shooter from

982
01:23:41.119 --> 01:23:48.119
the sixth floor, I can't accept
that because there's no evidence to prove that

983
01:23:48.840 --> 01:23:54.279
there's a match, and all of
the points that someone used, all those

984
01:23:54.359 --> 01:24:00.439
minutia points have to come from the
same finger and not adjacent fingers. And

985
01:24:00.640 --> 01:24:09.319
if there's one minutia point which is
a little identifying characteristic that does not match,

986
01:24:09.920 --> 01:24:15.199
that means you have to eliminate it
as a match. I've looked at

987
01:24:15.199 --> 01:24:18.560
those prints myself, and I'm going
to tell you I can show you things

988
01:24:18.560 --> 01:24:23.359
that do not match, even though
you might have three or four things that

989
01:24:23.399 --> 01:24:28.920
do match. If you have something
that doesn't match, it cannot be the

990
01:24:28.960 --> 01:24:36.239
same person. And so I think
that this is just reaching and conjecture and

991
01:24:36.439 --> 01:24:43.319
people that do not truly understand what
evidence is and how forensics works, and

992
01:24:43.359 --> 01:24:46.520
they're just jumping on the bandwagon because
oh my gosh, isn't that sensational to

993
01:24:46.680 --> 01:24:51.800
know that you have information that other
people don't? And I think that's part

994
01:24:51.800 --> 01:24:55.920
of what it is. Well,
then that's it, And it's a convenient

995
01:24:56.000 --> 01:25:01.000
conclusion because look, Malcolm Wallace is
approvable somebody who could be tied to Lyndon

996
01:25:01.079 --> 01:25:09.560
Bins Johnson. Okay, uh and
and Johnson having been involved in Wallace's life,

997
01:25:09.600 --> 01:25:13.720
et cetera, et cetera. If
you're looking to hang the assassination on

998
01:25:13.840 --> 01:25:17.119
Lyndon Bins Johnson, here we go
with the preconceived notions again, Malcolm Wallace

999
01:25:17.159 --> 01:25:21.279
looks like a good guy to hang
it on. However, the problem is

1000
01:25:21.359 --> 01:25:26.600
that once you take that fingerprint out
of the equation, you've got nothing,

1001
01:25:27.239 --> 01:25:31.119
okay. And I tried to explain
this to Roger Stone, who I had

1002
01:25:31.159 --> 01:25:36.479
as a guest talking about his book
on the Clintons. Just what a week

1003
01:25:36.520 --> 01:25:41.520
ago, two weeks ago, I
can't remember, but either way, you

1004
01:25:41.560 --> 01:25:43.720
know, and I and I said
this to him, and I also stated

1005
01:25:43.720 --> 01:25:48.840
that, you know, Joan Mellon
commissioned a look at this alleged fingerprint that's

1006
01:25:48.840 --> 01:25:59.079
supposed to belong to Wallace, utilizing
Wallace's military record fingerprints as the you know,

1007
01:25:59.119 --> 01:26:03.000
as the point of comparing between this
and this alleged fingerprint of the small

1008
01:26:03.039 --> 01:26:08.000
finger that everybody keeps talking about,
that would place Wallace on the sixth floor

1009
01:26:08.399 --> 01:26:14.119
of the Depository building. And she
would have much enjoyed being able to have

1010
01:26:14.720 --> 01:26:16.920
a match out of Malcolm Wallace because
she was writing a book about him at

1011
01:26:16.960 --> 01:26:23.279
the time. And unfortunately that is
not what the evidence showed. The expert

1012
01:26:23.319 --> 01:26:28.760
that she hired, who was yet
again another person seemingly very similar to the

1013
01:26:28.800 --> 01:26:31.880
individual you're talking about, Sherry,
somebody who was in that business, was

1014
01:26:31.920 --> 01:26:38.720
not only in that business, but
was somebody who determined whether others were experts

1015
01:26:38.840 --> 01:26:44.119
in the field or not. Okay, so what we have at the end

1016
01:26:44.159 --> 01:26:49.640
here is something that is best I
can determine, not a match. I

1017
01:26:49.640 --> 01:26:56.640
haven't done the examination myself, but
it seems as though when competent experts examine

1018
01:26:56.680 --> 01:27:00.680
it, we don't have a positive
idea of Malcolm Wallace on the sixth floor

1019
01:27:00.720 --> 01:27:05.880
of the depository building. I think
to Chuck that also what we should consider

1020
01:27:06.079 --> 01:27:13.279
is is that is now confirmation from
two separate sources, using two separate groups

1021
01:27:13.279 --> 01:27:17.960
of experts, that it's not him, It was not a Wallace print using

1022
01:27:18.039 --> 01:27:23.000
better source materials as well than the
person who tried to say that it was

1023
01:27:23.079 --> 01:27:27.920
Wallace because they were using a photo
copy, and to be brutally honest,

1024
01:27:28.319 --> 01:27:31.920
neither were they licensed at the time. See, there's a problem with Darby,

1025
01:27:31.960 --> 01:27:36.159
because that's my understanding about him,
is that he was no longer certified

1026
01:27:36.760 --> 01:27:41.760
at the time he conducted the examination. And ever after, this thing has

1027
01:27:41.800 --> 01:27:45.920
continued to resonate because it's a very
convenient thing to want to hang it on

1028
01:27:46.000 --> 01:27:49.279
Johnson. And I've said this to
you, Rob, and I think I

1029
01:27:49.319 --> 01:27:51.800
said this on your show, but
I know I've said it to you privately

1030
01:27:53.479 --> 01:27:58.840
that you know, the the LBJ
did it thing has been around since the

1031
01:27:58.960 --> 01:28:02.479
day after I wall died, you
know, as far as it being a

1032
01:28:02.479 --> 01:28:08.239
point of discussion, and yet it
kind of made sense in nineteen sixty three.

1033
01:28:09.000 --> 01:28:14.079
But you know, as time marches
on, you know, for Lyndon

1034
01:28:14.119 --> 01:28:18.720
Baines Johnson to hire a shooter and
for it to be Malcolm Wallace, and

1035
01:28:18.760 --> 01:28:23.880
for him to be on the sixth
floor of the Depository building, all of

1036
01:28:23.920 --> 01:28:28.760
this supposition falls apart every which way
you look at it. I mean,

1037
01:28:29.199 --> 01:28:32.439
unless you disagree with me, Rob, go ahead, No, not at

1038
01:28:32.479 --> 01:28:39.039
all. I mean, it's almost
ridiculous to think that this university professor,

1039
01:28:39.119 --> 01:28:42.439
as Malcolm Wallace was, I think
he was teaching at the University of Texas

1040
01:28:42.439 --> 01:28:48.000
at the time. Is this super
scary personal hitman of Lyndon Baines Johnson,

1041
01:28:48.319 --> 01:28:54.119
you know, and you know a
lot of people want to want to believe

1042
01:28:54.119 --> 01:28:58.239
it. It's a good story,
you know. Was Lyndon Johnson a bad

1043
01:28:58.359 --> 01:29:00.079
person? Yes, you know,
I think we can all agree on that

1044
01:29:01.319 --> 01:29:06.920
mastermind of the JFK assassination, not
by a loan shot right. And my

1045
01:29:08.359 --> 01:29:11.880
estimation of Mack Wallace is that,
you know, from what I've been able

1046
01:29:11.920 --> 01:29:15.800
to gather, because I didn't know
the man. Okay, you know,

1047
01:29:15.560 --> 01:29:18.960
he died when I was a baby
or not born, I forget which,

1048
01:29:19.399 --> 01:29:21.600
but either way, I didn't know
the man. But from what I can

1049
01:29:21.680 --> 01:29:28.640
gather, I mean, not the
Boogeyman, but definitely not a boy scout

1050
01:29:28.680 --> 01:29:32.399
either. Quite capable of murder,
guess. I mean we know that public

1051
01:29:32.479 --> 01:29:40.960
record shows you that. But is
he an assassin is the question? You

1052
01:29:40.960 --> 01:29:43.920
know, as far as I'm concerned, And I don't see it, guys,

1053
01:29:44.239 --> 01:29:45.239
No, you're no. I agree
with you guys as well. I

1054
01:29:45.239 --> 01:29:49.000
think that with Wallace, the problem
is also is he's already associated with the

1055
01:29:49.079 --> 01:29:53.239
murder of Kinser. That's just going
to attract attention. You don't want somebody

1056
01:29:53.239 --> 01:29:56.399
that's going to attract attention to be
an assassin. You want somebody who can

1057
01:29:56.399 --> 01:30:00.760
blend into the crowd and fade away. Yes, a man who can disappear.

1058
01:30:00.840 --> 01:30:04.680
That This is who you hire as
an assassin. Is a man who

1059
01:30:04.680 --> 01:30:09.239
can disappear, A man who's already
supposed to be there, et cetera,

1060
01:30:09.399 --> 01:30:14.680
et cetera. A guy like Wallace
would would not have escaped, notice,

1061
01:30:15.239 --> 01:30:19.119
you know, And this idea that
somebody believes they saw from the ground level

1062
01:30:19.239 --> 01:30:26.479
someone wearing glasses that was on the
sixth floor is not adequate as far as

1063
01:30:26.479 --> 01:30:30.000
I'm concerned, to place him there
either. And when you don't have the

1064
01:30:30.000 --> 01:30:32.119
fingerprint evidence, what do you have
when it comes to mac Wallace, And

1065
01:30:32.159 --> 01:30:40.560
that's only one of the shooters in
their alleged eight shooter configuration, you know.

1066
01:30:41.199 --> 01:30:45.000
So okay, let's move forward,
though, Carmine, what else did

1067
01:30:45.000 --> 01:30:49.319
we take note of? Well,
okay, so we went from there.

1068
01:30:49.439 --> 01:30:53.279
Oh. One of my favorite things
that they said during the course of the

1069
01:30:53.279 --> 01:30:57.960
movie was they claimed that because of
the lack of evidence in some cases their

1070
01:30:58.000 --> 01:31:02.000
ideas are stronger than the other goes
against them. And I just like to

1071
01:31:02.039 --> 01:31:08.279
tell the author they're mistaken or the
director whoever contrived, that a lack of

1072
01:31:08.359 --> 01:31:12.319
evidence does not make your argument stronger, it makes it worse. The argument

1073
01:31:12.359 --> 01:31:15.279
with more evidence is the more is
the superior argument. You know. They

1074
01:31:15.279 --> 01:31:17.800
talked about the Murchison dinner party as
we went over, and the problem with

1075
01:31:17.840 --> 01:31:26.720
the property. They talked about the
roths child and old money illuminati conspiracies were

1076
01:31:26.840 --> 01:31:29.600
sort of the setup to the JFK
case, and they sort of had a

1077
01:31:29.680 --> 01:31:34.600
hand in making what happened to JFK
happen. Wow, all right, Rob

1078
01:31:34.920 --> 01:31:41.439
I'm gonna throw it at you on
that one. And why because I have

1079
01:31:41.520 --> 01:31:44.880
a feeling that you and I see
now I'm a little bit more of a

1080
01:31:44.920 --> 01:31:47.880
far flung conspiracy guy when it comes
to some of this stuff. So I'm

1081
01:31:47.880 --> 01:31:53.479
gonna try and keep my mouth shut
because I've got my viewpoints on the Rothschilds.

1082
01:31:53.600 --> 01:31:58.840
But what do you have to say
about that? Well? Yeah,

1083
01:31:58.880 --> 01:32:01.479
I mean this, this guy's akse
on this fantastic journey from from the early

1084
01:32:01.560 --> 01:32:05.439
Robber barons, you know, the
Rothschilds, the JP Morgan's, you know,

1085
01:32:05.520 --> 01:32:11.159
through through World War One and of
course the Harryman's and you know,

1086
01:32:11.239 --> 01:32:16.079
the Bushes and the Nazis, and
you know, somehow, you know,

1087
01:32:16.760 --> 01:32:23.520
it kind of evolved into you know, then being the architects or actually led

1088
01:32:23.560 --> 01:32:26.840
to them, you know, to
be being part of the architecture of the

1089
01:32:26.920 --> 01:32:32.159
JFK assassination. And you know,
these certain people, I should say,

1090
01:32:32.199 --> 01:32:36.159
have been making you know, these
connections, especially with Bush and the Skull

1091
01:32:36.239 --> 01:32:42.920
and Bones Society at Yale. You
know, while all these connections are interesting,

1092
01:32:45.399 --> 01:32:49.359
you know, it lacks teeth,
it lacks proof. You know that.

1093
01:32:51.079 --> 01:32:54.800
Well, yeah, here's the thing. Here's the thing, right when

1094
01:32:54.840 --> 01:33:00.680
it comes to the Bushes and I
look, I very I I don't pull

1095
01:33:00.720 --> 01:33:03.159
any punches about it. I call
the Bush family the Bush crime syndicate.

1096
01:33:03.600 --> 01:33:09.159
I really do believe they are their
corporate criminals. They have gained profits from

1097
01:33:09.279 --> 01:33:13.039
warfare, and my estimation, they
have gained on the misery of other people.

1098
01:33:13.119 --> 01:33:15.399
This is my viewpoint of these individuals. Their whole family has done this.

1099
01:33:16.199 --> 01:33:21.840
Prescott Bush was a part of,
you know, the the cadre of

1100
01:33:21.880 --> 01:33:26.319
individuals who were called on the carpet
with trading with the enemies, you know,

1101
01:33:26.479 --> 01:33:31.680
contrating with the enemies, act unconscionable
individuals, you know, political polecats,

1102
01:33:31.760 --> 01:33:35.399
if you will, no problem there. But here here is where I

1103
01:33:35.680 --> 01:33:40.840
begin to have to draw a line. You can't put a gun in George

1104
01:33:40.960 --> 01:33:45.960
HW. Bush's hand in Deally Plaza. Okay, why well, see once

1105
01:33:46.000 --> 01:33:50.840
again I would turn to Sherry real
quick here and say, don't you want

1106
01:33:50.880 --> 01:33:55.039
to have some sort of evidence that
puts a gun in a man's hand?

1107
01:33:55.680 --> 01:34:01.359
And something besides one blurry photograph from
one particular hand which appears like it might

1108
01:34:01.399 --> 01:34:06.800
possibly be somebody, in order to
present it as positive evidence for somebody being

1109
01:34:06.840 --> 01:34:15.359
present at a scene. I'm glad
you've asked me that question. Well,

1110
01:34:15.399 --> 01:34:19.840
first off, everybody looks at those
blurry photographs that you're talking about and they're

1111
01:34:19.880 --> 01:34:27.520
thinking Grassyn. And we now know
that no headshot came from the grassy,

1112
01:34:27.600 --> 01:34:32.560
know, So you know that kind
of eliminates a lot of things that people

1113
01:34:32.600 --> 01:34:35.760
look to. But here's something that
I just want to tell you about.

1114
01:34:36.319 --> 01:34:45.640
Okay, when I was working in
law enforcement many years ago, there was

1115
01:34:45.079 --> 01:34:53.279
a traffic accident on Interstate ten.
And in that traffic accident, we recovered

1116
01:34:57.000 --> 01:35:00.560
a briefcase that looked like a Haliburton
CA. I don't know if if you

1117
01:35:00.640 --> 01:35:05.760
know what that means. It's like
a metal case. And when we were

1118
01:35:05.800 --> 01:35:15.880
able to open that because the person
was deceased, we found, I guess

1119
01:35:15.920 --> 01:35:21.520
something that you would call fairly unusual, and it was a lot of money,

1120
01:35:23.560 --> 01:35:33.840
a weapon and a silencer and a
note. The note was what was

1121
01:35:33.880 --> 01:35:44.000
interesting because the note was too a
family member and basically what they were saying

1122
01:35:44.319 --> 01:35:54.920
was you think that I'm one kind
of person, but I'm not, and

1123
01:35:54.960 --> 01:35:58.520
there's not any way that anybody can
come back and prove anything that I've ever

1124
01:35:58.640 --> 01:36:04.640
done. And here's why. And
they he had actually kind of laid out

1125
01:36:04.920 --> 01:36:13.039
a way to say, you know, if you gained property by illegal means

1126
01:36:13.039 --> 01:36:15.000
that that property can be seized.
I don't know if you know that.

1127
01:36:15.760 --> 01:36:20.159
Oh yeah, So this is someone
who was trying to say to a family

1128
01:36:20.199 --> 01:36:25.479
member, you don't have to worry
because the property that we have is not

1129
01:36:25.520 --> 01:36:29.640
going to be seized because there's not
any way for anyone to prove that I

1130
01:36:29.680 --> 01:36:33.760
gained it illegally. And here's why, and this is what, this is

1131
01:36:33.800 --> 01:36:44.279
why I'm bringing this up. Their
story was basically, if hypothetically I was

1132
01:36:44.319 --> 01:36:49.319
going to kill someone, I would
hire someone to kill them, and then

1133
01:36:49.640 --> 01:36:55.800
on the same day I would hire
someone to kill that person. I wouldn't

1134
01:36:55.800 --> 01:37:00.520
tell either of them why I wanted
this done. But eventually what would happen

1135
01:37:00.600 --> 01:37:06.119
is I could continue to do this
indefinitely until it would never ever be able

1136
01:37:06.159 --> 01:37:13.960
to be traced back to me.
So my question is, for people that

1137
01:37:14.079 --> 01:37:18.239
wanted to see President Kennedy dead,
why would they do anything that would allow

1138
01:37:18.319 --> 01:37:24.960
that to be traced back to them
When it's so easy to make sure that

1139
01:37:25.039 --> 01:37:30.199
it's not not not the least of
which would be showing their face at the

1140
01:37:30.319 --> 01:37:38.159
murder scene. Yeah scene, that's
a good one. I think that's a

1141
01:37:38.279 --> 01:37:42.800
very good rule of thumb. So, if someone were actually going to be

1142
01:37:42.920 --> 01:37:48.359
involved with the homicide assassination however you
want to call whatever you want to call

1143
01:37:48.399 --> 01:37:55.159
it, of a sitting president,
do you honestly believe that they would have

1144
01:37:55.239 --> 01:38:00.000
an have any way that it would
ever come back to them. I mean,

1145
01:38:00.279 --> 01:38:05.520
really, it's water than that.
And these people had money. So

1146
01:38:06.199 --> 01:38:10.520
I think it's ridiculous for people to
say, oh, yeah, I know

1147
01:38:10.600 --> 01:38:14.039
so and so did it because they
weren't well liked or whatever the situation is.

1148
01:38:14.680 --> 01:38:17.159
I think that is just so ridiculous. Well, it's the concept of

1149
01:38:17.359 --> 01:38:23.079
insulation. It's the concept of insulation. And this is the why, you

1150
01:38:23.119 --> 01:38:27.880
know, mob guys put things in
their wives' names and turn around and go

1151
01:38:27.960 --> 01:38:30.920
through the trouble of wandering money because
at some point, yeah, if things

1152
01:38:31.000 --> 01:38:38.039
are seized based on the fact that
they were obtained in a criminal conspiracy,

1153
01:38:38.479 --> 01:38:42.399
you know, you forfeit your rights
to those assets. That's money, that's

1154
01:38:42.399 --> 01:38:45.560
your houses, that's your cars,
et cetera, et cetera. That's why

1155
01:38:45.640 --> 01:38:49.760
ownership is always played with and you
require people that are called forensic accountants to

1156
01:38:50.119 --> 01:38:56.000
reconstruct what happened so that you can
trace back all of the assets. You

1157
01:38:56.000 --> 01:38:59.479
can get a hold of where the
bank accounts were. This is why they're

1158
01:38:59.520 --> 01:39:01.399
offshore bank accounts, et cetera,
et cetera. Now, look, I'm

1159
01:39:01.439 --> 01:39:06.760
not even making a distinction between corporate
criminals and you know, your street level

1160
01:39:06.800 --> 01:39:11.960
guys who are organized or anything else. I'm just telling you that in a

1161
01:39:12.000 --> 01:39:16.640
criminal conspiracy where it's well organized and
high finance, this is what is done.

1162
01:39:16.840 --> 01:39:23.960
You don't send players who are recognizable
in any way, shape or form,

1163
01:39:24.279 --> 01:39:28.800
or forget about recognizable. You wouldn't
want them to be recognized at the

1164
01:39:28.840 --> 01:39:33.800
scene of the murder. That's just
a no no. I mean, come

1165
01:39:33.840 --> 01:39:41.159
on, seriously. There's something to
be said for the banking conspiracy, the

1166
01:39:41.279 --> 01:39:45.439
damage it's done. There's something to
be said for corporate criminals. There's something

1167
01:39:45.439 --> 01:39:48.079
to be said for the individuals who
have gotten rewards and been involved in different

1168
01:39:48.399 --> 01:39:54.319
government agencies and have absolutely profited off
of the blood of others. But when

1169
01:39:54.319 --> 01:39:58.520
it comes to something like this,
you're not going to be able to put

1170
01:39:59.199 --> 01:40:03.479
a key player like that, assuming
that he's even a player on the scene.

1171
01:40:03.600 --> 01:40:08.760
It's just not going to happen that
way. I don't know, Rob,

1172
01:40:08.800 --> 01:40:11.279
I know you were speaking about this
to start with, but I mean,

1173
01:40:11.680 --> 01:40:14.800
I don't know any any anybody want
to argue with what Sherry or I

1174
01:40:14.920 --> 01:40:17.880
just said. No, and I
mean not at all. I mean I

1175
01:40:17.920 --> 01:40:24.079
think I mean that that was kind
of what they were trying to say in

1176
01:40:24.119 --> 01:40:28.359
the movie. You know that all
these rich and powerful people like g and

1177
01:40:28.439 --> 01:40:32.239
Conna and hl Hunt and Murchison,
you know, had had hired these hitman

1178
01:40:33.720 --> 01:40:40.800
hitman for for you know, plausible
deniability. But the cast of characters that

1179
01:40:40.880 --> 01:40:45.680
they supposedly hired are all, you
know, almost all notorious for one reason

1180
01:40:45.760 --> 01:40:48.399
or another and can be associated right
back to him, especially the mafia guys

1181
01:40:49.239 --> 01:40:56.399
like Nicoletti and Kane and you know
a couple of these other people. Yeah,

1182
01:40:56.439 --> 01:40:59.760
and you know, you got these
people that he associated with the hit

1183
01:41:00.880 --> 01:41:03.520
like Jack Lawrence, who seemingly had
no connection to anybody at all, you

1184
01:41:03.560 --> 01:41:06.000
know, and they just kind of
came out of left field. I guess

1185
01:41:06.039 --> 01:41:11.680
they were supposing that they were maybe
you know, c I A I don't

1186
01:41:11.720 --> 01:41:15.960
know. But you know, even
when they talked about the tramps, you

1187
01:41:16.000 --> 01:41:20.880
know, they have him identified as
Charles Rogers, who that's not even a

1188
01:41:23.079 --> 01:41:27.840
you know, a dead set identification, as we don't really have any verifiable

1189
01:41:27.880 --> 01:41:33.319
pictures of Charles Rogers period, And
to say that that guy is Charles Harrelson,

1190
01:41:34.520 --> 01:41:38.359
you know, he doesn't look like
him to me. And then of

1191
01:41:38.359 --> 01:41:42.960
course they identified the old tramp as
Hunt, you know, and it was

1192
01:41:43.000 --> 01:41:46.439
Wholt who said he was with Harrelson
Rogers, not Hunt, and that Hunt

1193
01:41:46.439 --> 01:41:53.079
identification has been debunked for years.
So there's a lot of debunked information.

1194
01:41:53.159 --> 01:41:56.279
I mean, he even went so
far as to do the old Robert Morning

1195
01:41:56.319 --> 01:42:00.279
Star thing and say JD. Tibby's
body, you know, was to be

1196
01:42:00.399 --> 01:42:04.319
used as a substitute for Kennedy's.
You know, just every theory under the

1197
01:42:04.359 --> 01:42:08.119
sun is thrown into this movie,
right, I mean, well, you

1198
01:42:08.159 --> 01:42:11.359
know, mixed in with credible stuff, you know, to kind of sucker

1199
01:42:11.399 --> 01:42:15.520
people in, and you know,
it's it is a great story, but

1200
01:42:15.600 --> 01:42:18.800
that's it. That's it. It's
a story, it's entertainment, and it's

1201
01:42:18.800 --> 01:42:25.880
told by one person who I would
wonder because he has images of the Pruder

1202
01:42:25.880 --> 01:42:29.640
film in this movie. He has
a lot of images from other films in

1203
01:42:29.640 --> 01:42:33.399
this movie. And I know if
if he uses a Pruder film without permission,

1204
01:42:33.439 --> 01:42:36.840
the sixth floor comes after you.
So I'm just wondering if this guy

1205
01:42:36.960 --> 01:42:42.239
paid for permission to use all these
different films in his one film. And

1206
01:42:42.319 --> 01:42:46.640
I would venture to say the answer
is no. Oh right, I would

1207
01:42:46.640 --> 01:42:49.840
too, and that that is another
interesting question. But you know what,

1208
01:42:49.920 --> 01:42:53.840
you bring up the other thing that
I wanted to run by Sherry because we're

1209
01:42:53.880 --> 01:42:57.600
down to less than ten minutes left. But I do want to run this

1210
01:42:57.680 --> 01:43:00.880
by Sherry real quick, because once
again, there is this idea, this

1211
01:43:01.000 --> 01:43:04.279
concept which has been floated around by
this guy, Robert morning Star for a

1212
01:43:04.319 --> 01:43:09.760
long time. About the idea,
Now brace yourself, Sherry, please,

1213
01:43:11.640 --> 01:43:15.279
And I'm sure you've heard this before, but man, I don't know if

1214
01:43:15.279 --> 01:43:19.680
I can even get through this sentence
that JD. Tippet's body is the one

1215
01:43:19.800 --> 01:43:25.199
which is being exhibited in the Kennedy
autopsy photos. You know, the fox

1216
01:43:25.239 --> 01:43:30.359
set that has been circulated that they
actually utilize JD. Tippett's body for these

1217
01:43:30.359 --> 01:43:35.640
photographs, and then you know,
turned around and prettied up the body so

1218
01:43:35.680 --> 01:43:42.800
that they could show the wounds to
be a certain way. I'm only going

1219
01:43:42.880 --> 01:43:45.880
to give you a couple of minutes
here, but I mean, can you

1220
01:43:45.039 --> 01:43:54.279
somehow attack that in a like sixty
seconds, Well, that's pretty ludicrous.

1221
01:43:54.640 --> 01:43:59.880
I would tell you. For anybody
that has actually look at the evidence I

1222
01:44:00.159 --> 01:44:02.560
have, and I will tell you
that number one, the location of the

1223
01:44:02.680 --> 01:44:09.399
wounds don't correlate. The trajectory of
the wounds don't correlate. The dental records

1224
01:44:09.479 --> 01:44:15.560
don't correlate. The size of the
head don't correlate. So I can't see

1225
01:44:15.640 --> 01:44:27.159
how anyone who truly wants to look
at the differences between these two sets of

1226
01:44:27.399 --> 01:44:33.640
X rays could ever be considered from
the same person. So I don't really

1227
01:44:33.680 --> 01:44:39.479
know how else I could say that, you know, other than it is

1228
01:44:40.039 --> 01:44:45.439
absolutely false. Thank you, Thank
you so much, because this is what

1229
01:44:45.479 --> 01:44:49.319
I've been trying to say about this
for years, and I believe it or

1230
01:44:49.359 --> 01:44:54.039
not, it's not the first time
I've been confronted with this idea. But

1231
01:44:54.199 --> 01:44:56.720
man, I just want to throw
up my hands when somebody says this,

1232
01:44:56.760 --> 01:44:59.800
because it's like, I don't know
where to begin with exactly how ludicrous this

1233
01:44:59.760 --> 01:45:04.239
is. But hey, if you
actually examine the evidence. You can't line

1234
01:45:04.319 --> 01:45:09.520
up the two bodies. Just forget
about the wounds. You can't line up

1235
01:45:09.560 --> 01:45:15.239
the two bodies. But it doesn't
the known information about Tippett and Kennedy means

1236
01:45:15.279 --> 01:45:19.680
that you can't switch one for the
other. They're not even going to be

1237
01:45:19.880 --> 01:45:25.720
close. They say that they're physically
similar, they're not. They really aren't.

1238
01:45:26.199 --> 01:45:29.720
They are not. So I have
to agree with you on that.

1239
01:45:30.920 --> 01:45:41.560
I have no idea why people would
lean towards such an absolutely bizarre conclusion.

1240
01:45:42.800 --> 01:45:47.199
I really, I really can't explain
that because there's in no way does it

1241
01:45:47.239 --> 01:45:55.520
work wasted energy, absolutely, and
I don't feel like we've wasted a lot

1242
01:45:55.520 --> 01:45:58.159
of energy here, but I mean, rapid fire, Carmine, what else

1243
01:45:58.199 --> 01:46:01.640
do you have left in your notes
as points from this moblaste? Okay,

1244
01:46:01.680 --> 01:46:03.800
I think we're going to get through
maybe some of it, but there's a

1245
01:46:03.800 --> 01:46:08.239
lot. Okay, I know there's
more than we can cover, but let's

1246
01:46:08.279 --> 01:46:11.640
just give people are Okay, Let's
go to a Mark Lane's spotlight trial.

1247
01:46:11.680 --> 01:46:15.479
And what I would say about that
is, these guys say that it proved

1248
01:46:15.920 --> 01:46:18.880
that Surgis and Hunt were responsible for
President Kennedy's death, but that didn't occur

1249
01:46:18.920 --> 01:46:23.920
if you read into it. The
trial established that it was not unreasonable to

1250
01:46:24.039 --> 01:46:28.199
accuse some of the people Lane did
based on established connections. It didn't prove

1251
01:46:28.199 --> 01:46:32.399
they were guilty. It just showed
that Spotlight was not guilty of defaming them

1252
01:46:32.479 --> 01:46:38.760
because they had been in some very
illegal operations before. Right, So moving

1253
01:46:38.840 --> 01:46:42.920
on, read the actual article,
read what happened in the court transcripts,

1254
01:46:42.920 --> 01:46:46.880
and guess what you'll find that isn't
what was proven. Moving forward, the

1255
01:46:46.880 --> 01:46:50.680
film claims Kennedy fired Alan Dulles,
and this is not correct. Dallas resigned

1256
01:46:51.399 --> 01:46:57.199
and the resignation was likely due to
political necessity, not because Kennedy hated Dullas

1257
01:46:57.199 --> 01:47:00.359
as The film tries to make it
sound like they were enemies. But the

1258
01:47:00.359 --> 01:47:02.560
president never condemned but praised Dullas.
If you actually look into the record,

1259
01:47:02.600 --> 01:47:06.199
and you'd look into some of the
honors and awards he gave him. I'm

1260
01:47:06.239 --> 01:47:10.720
not saying that Dulles wasn't kicked out
because of his mistakes. He was,

1261
01:47:11.159 --> 01:47:13.680
but Kennedy wasn't. They weren't some
sort of enemy. I mean, remember

1262
01:47:13.720 --> 01:47:18.600
that it was Robert Kennedy and Katzenbach
who suggested Dullas for the commission and Dulles,

1263
01:47:18.720 --> 01:47:21.159
no matter what, even though he
was the most active member of the

1264
01:47:21.159 --> 01:47:26.560
warrant commission, was not necessarily the
guy who presided over it. Because that

1265
01:47:26.680 --> 01:47:30.520
was the statement made in that film, and that is absolutely ludicrous. He

1266
01:47:30.640 --> 01:47:33.000
was the most active guy when it
came to making statements and asking questions.

1267
01:47:33.399 --> 01:47:38.840
If you sit and draw an actuary
up and try and follow the activity of

1268
01:47:38.880 --> 01:47:44.319
the commissioners based on the executive sessions
and the public record, guess what you

1269
01:47:44.359 --> 01:47:48.079
will find that Dallas was active.
But anyway, moving forward, Okay,

1270
01:47:48.880 --> 01:47:53.159
the film claimed that Oswald was a
low level CIA operative, and while this

1271
01:47:53.239 --> 01:47:56.279
is possible, the film offers no
proof. Now evidence was submitted to the

1272
01:47:56.319 --> 01:47:59.319
viewer, just more claims. The
film attempted to offer that the conspirators were

1273
01:47:59.359 --> 01:48:02.000
contriving a full proof plan. Control
of the body is deemed essential. However,

1274
01:48:02.039 --> 01:48:05.279
the actual evidence is that it remains
contrary and disjoin it. I mean,

1275
01:48:05.319 --> 01:48:09.640
you guys spent the first hour Sherry
told us about some of the things,

1276
01:48:09.720 --> 01:48:12.279
so did you. I mean,
if the evidence was so messed up,

1277
01:48:12.279 --> 01:48:14.359
there was no way this was a
full proof plan, as the film

1278
01:48:14.439 --> 01:48:17.039
tries, was certain well, right, the only thing that was full proof

1279
01:48:17.359 --> 01:48:20.640
is that a disaster was made.
And listen, we are out of time

1280
01:48:20.880 --> 01:48:27.039
for JFK Myths Part six. I
want to thank author Sherry Feaster, Enemy

1281
01:48:27.039 --> 01:48:30.600
of the Truth is the book Get
It, Carmine Sabastano, who is the

1282
01:48:30.640 --> 01:48:33.680
author of the upcoming book Two Princes
and a King, And of course my

1283
01:48:33.760 --> 01:48:39.680
friend Rob Clark who does the Lone
Gunman podcast. Guys, I appreciate every

1284
01:48:39.720 --> 01:48:43.560
last one of you for joining me
for this and I hope the listener learned

1285
01:48:43.600 --> 01:48:47.960
a little something about what a myth
is. Everybody, have a good night

1286
01:48:48.079 --> 01:49:00.119
and we'll see you on Tuesday.