WEBVTT

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the Teamhouse, Special Operations SP and I

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the Team House with your host,
Jack Murphy and David Bark. Hey,

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folks, welcome to episode two hundred
and seventy six of The Team House.

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I'm Jack here with Dave our guest
on tonight's show is Adam Gamal. He

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is the author of The Unit with
Kelly Kennedy, My Life Fighting Terrorists as

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one of America's most secret military operatives. Adam is one of the very few

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people we've ever had on this show
under alias whose identity is being censored for

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some valid reasons that you'll probably be
able to pick up on as this interview

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goes on, Adam, Welcome to
the show. Thank you for joining us,

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Thank you thanks for inviting me.
So let's start at the beginning.

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You know you are a immigrant.
Can tell us a little bit about like

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how you grew up overseas and sort
of what your immigration story was. Yep,

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absolutely, So I was born in
Egypt, went to school in Egypt.

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A year or two after high school, I went to law school.

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So law school in Egypt is after
high school, after college. Europe and

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a lot of other countries other than
the US they have that. And when

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I was in college, Egypt was
still under some sort of a martial law

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just because of the assassination of presidents
about in nineteen eighty one. So we

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had a college professor who was like
the guy with a lot of wisdom and

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he's like, hey, by the
way, whatever law you're study in here,

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most likely you'll never practice because we're
going to be under laws of emergency

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for a while. So that I
have a light bulb just goes on in

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my head and I'm like, well, it's time for me to leave,

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to go somewhere else. I had
a lot of back and forth fighting with

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the Muslim Brotherhood, running against them
in a student body in college. I

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got beaten by them a few times. Was like, you know what,

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maybe I should leave, So I
wanted to. Initially, I was like,

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Okay, I'll go to somewhere in
Europe. It's easier to travel to

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Europe than to come to the US. Thes was very hard to get a

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visa, to get a student visa
and an immigration status. So I went

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to the embassy of Austria that he
said, no, we're not giving you

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a visa. So I went to
the embassy of France. That was around

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Desert storm, right after Desert storm, so France was not giving visas to

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anybody to travel outside of Egypt at
that time. So in the way back

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there is a US consulate. So
there was three of us trying to travel

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that one guy was like, hey, man, we can just stop by

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the American consulate. And I was
like, well, these other two countries

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didn't give us a visa, what
makes you think the US will give us

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a visa. So he's like,
well, nothing to lose, will just

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stop buy and get an application.
So I get an application, fill it

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out. Then I go to go
for the interview. The lady was like,

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you're supposed to have, like you
know, bank state shows that you

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have money, you have properties,
you have all of these things. So

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I go and I have nothing.
Honestly, I didn't even have the money

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to pay for the visa, so
I uh. When for the interview,

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the lady was like, hey,
you're supposed to have. Do you have

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any of those things? I said, well, the application doesn't say I

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supposed to bring any of these things. He didn't tell me, nobody said

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anything. So she says like,
well, if I let you go and

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come back, would you bring it? I said yeah, absolutely, So

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she's, uh, when can you
bring it? I said whenever you want

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me to come back. She's like
tomorrow. I said, this is not

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that you asked it to Egypt.
It's again, it take me two days.

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Can I come the day after tomorrow. So she's like, yeah,

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you can come the day after tomorrow. So I go come back in two

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days without one of those small bags
that people carry with nothing in it,

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like literally nothing. I walk in
and the lady asked me, did you

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apply for a visa before? I
said, yeah, I was here two

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days ago and I'm coming to submit
the documents you guys asked for. She's

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like, do you have it?
I said, ye's in these bag.

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You want to see it. She's
like no, and she's like she asked

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for the equivalent of I think three
dollars fifteen. That was the visa for

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the visa that time. When I
was going, my brother gave me the

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money and he's like, hey,
you never know, just take the money

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with you. So she's like,
it was like twenty nine twenty nine Egyptian

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pounds. So I gave her twenty
nine Egyptian pounds and she's like, give

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me your passport. I go in
the afternoon to pick up my passport with

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a visa on it two weeks after
I was in New York City. So

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that's the first step. And what
kind of visa did you come here on?

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Like what was what was your game
plan. So I didn't have a

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game plan. I was like,
let me just get the fuck out of

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here. So initially, so they
give you a student they give you a

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tourist visa. My plan was,
I'm gonna come on the tourist visa,

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apply for student visa, and change
my visa. So I went to Hunter

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College to learn English as a second
language, and then you can go through

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that to apply to change your visa
status from tourist visa to student visa.

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So that's what I did. But
I didn't have a game plan on it.

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I was like, you know what, I'm just coming. I borrowed

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five hundred dollars from my sister.
I didn't have any money, I didn't

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speak in English. I landed in
New York City in JFK, not far

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from here. Took the subway.
It took me like an hour to get

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out of the subway because I didn't
know how to get out of the subway.

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Spent the first night in the YMCA, couldn't dial a phone to call

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a friend to come and pick me
up. Some junkie guy standing by the

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bathroom saw me go into that phone
like ten times. Think he gets sickond

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tired of seeing me. That phone
number I have did not have one in

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front of it with the area could
So I'm dialing the phone number somebody in

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Jersey and just the operator says something
in English. I didn't understand that.

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I'm like, what the fuck?
It gives me my quarter back. Finally

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that guy's like, hey, let
me get this, let me get this

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number. So the guy took the
number. He dialed the one doubt the

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number I called. The friend was
like two o'clock in the morning. By

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then, a guy who was a
boy scout with me when I was in

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Egypt. I tell him where I'm
at. He's like, don't leave,

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just go back to your room,
lock the door and put them behind the

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doors, just to move. Next
day he came and picked me up and

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took me to a place where a
lot of immigrants living there. So slept

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on the floor with no mattress,
nothing, and just on the corporate for

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the first three months. And then
I started learning the English and I started

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doing things. And then here I
am talking to you. What was the

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culture shock like? So it was
huge for a few reasons. Number One,

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I came in July and it was
fucking raining and I'm like, man,

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it doesn't rain in Egypt in the
summer number two. The year before

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it was the movie Pretty Woman.
So I see Richard Gear, Julia Roberts,

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the Limo. So I'm coming here, and I'm like, you know,

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I'm coming here to see all of
these great things I land and I'm

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like, no limos, no,
Julia Roberts, nobody. So it was

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huge. And then I was terrified. Honestly, I didn't understand what anybody

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was saying. And then the YAMCA
in Egypt is a decent place to stay

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at for students. Obviously the YMCA
here was the nicest place to stay.

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I was hiding my five hundred dollars
in my shoes because I was terrified.

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And then a lot of Then you
come, honestly, and it's not like

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what you think you think. The
US is that clean everywhere, nice everywhere,

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beautiful everywhere, well, some areas, as you guys would know,

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that not what you would think,
right, But yeah, that's the thing.

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Then there is another cultural shock where
in Egypt, for example, police

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officers guys that you don't talk to
here. Actually, the guy who helped

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me to get out of the subway
station was a police officer, was very

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kind, very nice. The guy
who helped me to die the phone number

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was a junkie again, was really
nice. So you start seeing that people

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helping you without you having any connection
with them. So that's the positive side

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of the cultural shock. And so
you got your student visa, started going

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to ski here, and how did
things start to evolve? Were you over

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the next couple of years. So
you get your student visa, you work.

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So I kind of like I pumped
gas and gas stations so New Jersey,

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like you said in your book,
it's I think the only state with

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full service stations. So I'm the
guy standing pumping gas. I worked in

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a bakery deliver bread to hotels,
like super early in the morning. So

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my days some days would start like
from two o'clock in the morning to go

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deliver like cakes and brad to hotels. Finish that, work in a Lady

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Sports Squares tour in beyond New Jersey. Finish that, then go to school

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to learn the English from like five
till like from six to nine o'clock.

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Then those days what we'll keep going. Then Hunter College was expensive, so

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I moved to another community college in
Jersey. Again doing all of these different

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odd jobs moving. I moved I
think like eleven times between different houses in

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the first like two three years.
When they I'm working on a tour and

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an army recruiter walks in. The
guy dressed nice, looks cool, and

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they give you this pre as VAP
like the ten minute test, and he's

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like, man, if you take
this, you can and you passed,

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then you can join the army and
will pay for your college. So he

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just came kind of came in cold
calling, like this, he's just walking,

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He's just walking around. At that
time, I did not have my

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green card yet. Yeah, so
I could not join the army. Obviously.

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I didn't tell the guy that,
but I took the test the pretest.

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Then I kept to the number.
I kept everything. Then I lived

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in Jersey City in Bayonne, Jersey, between those areas, and like any

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any immigrant, like they go to
where people who look like you are there,

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the community, the community. So
there is a mosque in Jersey City,

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so a lot of people are like, hey, you can go there

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and people will help you. So
the blind Shake from the First World Center

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Boma was there. So I'm like, I left the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

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And then I come here and that
guy is sitting there. He's not

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he was not doing the sermon or
anything, but he was just there.

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So after a Friday sermon, he's
sitting down and talking and I was like,

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well, let me just sit and
see what the guy has to say.

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And people sitting and asking him questions, and I'm like, let me

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just see what that guy, with
all of this wisdom, what he's gonna

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say and what people are going to
ask him. So one guy, I

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think was the first or second question. One guy was like, I want

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to ask something his oral sex forbidding
in Islam or not. So the guy

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talks and I'm like, so,
now you have this opportunity to get from

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this wise guy the answer to how
you're gonna go to heaven and he's asking

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him that. So I put in
the book what the answer was. And

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then I was like, you know
what, maybe I'm just staying in the

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wrong place. Right across the streets
from that, honestly, was a recruiting

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station. By then, I have
got in my green card. So I

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went to the recruit in the station
and I said, hey, I am

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here. I want to join the
Navy. And an Army guy met me

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and he's like, why do you
want to join the Navy? I said,

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you know, like I grew up
in and ride by the water in

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Alexandria, Egypt. I like the
water. I think the Navy will be

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really cool. The guy was like, we have boats in the Army,

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and if you want to join the
Air Force, we'll have aeroplanes and the

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Army. You should join the army. And he talked to me. He

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talked to me, talked to me, and by the time he was done,

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he was a prariakond guy. By
the time he was done, I

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was going to take my ASVAP to
join the ormy and sold there sold.

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How long did it take you from
the time you landed at JFK to like

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getting your green card and then like
signing your papers from the military. Four

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years? Four years? Four you? So, I, uh, three

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and a half, but between three
and four years, because initially when I

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signed or the Army, I signed
on a delay entry program because I was

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in college. I was taking college
classes and they wouldn't they wouldn't take you

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out of college to join, so
they put me in the delay entry program

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for I think about four or five
months then summer of nineteen ninety five is

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when I was shipped to basic training. And how old were you at that

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time? Twenty five, So you're
an old man by military standards. Yep.

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Absolutely. And I think it helps
too because all of these mining games

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they play with you in basic training, you know you've seen it because you

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join in an older age. You
didn't because you were a young guy,

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still not very young, but young. So once you join in the age,

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your drul sergeant might be I was
twenty five, my dor sergeant was

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like it was like twenty four.
Yeah, so it was kind of like

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odd. But we had a guy
who was thirty one who had a female

207
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she was thirty thirty one. She
grew up in between Nigeria and the UK.

208
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She was a lawyer. So we
had all of this mix of people.

209
00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:13.399
What mos did you come in under
and start training for? So initially,

210
00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:16.759
when you're not a US citizen,
there are limited jobs you can have.

211
00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:22.000
So initially I was what used to
be seventy one LIMA, which is

212
00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:28.399
Edmund administrative Class. And I told
the recruiter like, hey, I want

213
00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:31.440
to I want to have a really
cool job. So if you read the

214
00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:35.799
job descriptions in the Army Manual.
Every job is a cool job, right,

215
00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:39.960
So administrative is specialist sounded like as
a matter of fact, like you

216
00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:43.120
know the guy who puts gas and
cars, this his petroleum specialist. And

217
00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:45.320
you read it and you're like,
wow, this is an awesome job.

218
00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:50.080
Yeah, it be like an oil
engineer a specialist exactly. So I was

219
00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:54.480
a seven year lima, which is
an administrative specialist. Cool. So you

220
00:14:54.519 --> 00:15:01.559
get through basic training and start your
army career as a administrative special What's what's

221
00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:03.200
it like for you? Are you
enjoying the army at this point? So

222
00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:09.240
basic training is horrible for a lot
of people. Basic training was not too

223
00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:13.039
much fun for me either. You
know, like the first day in basic

224
00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:16.600
training when they do this ice breaking
things and they talk to people and you

225
00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:20.240
know, where are you from?
Why you join the army? So when

226
00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:26.559
you tell people I'm from Egypt,
that it's something not expected, they you

227
00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:30.440
the first guy most likely they've ever
met from I used to have people in

228
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:33.879
basic training just tell me talk because
they've never heard that anybody speak with an

229
00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:37.440
accent. And I was like,
wow, this is really weird. So

230
00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:41.960
the drill sergeant made it didn't make
it fun either. But then after that

231
00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:48.120
my first assignment was so I was
holdover in basic and in not basic training

232
00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:50.600
in ai T. So after basic
training, I was hold over for security

233
00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:56.919
clearance hold over although seven ye one
LIMA does not require experience. So I

234
00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:00.000
was reckoning leaves like more than like. I became a like an expert.

235
00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:03.240
And how directly I was like these
guys, they can have me do a

236
00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:06.480
lot of other things, but I'm
reckon leaves every day. And it was

237
00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:11.159
like the fall, so you can
wreck leaves and then tomorrow you have leaves

238
00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:15.519
everywhere. Then it was Thanksgiving of
ninety five is when I got shipped to

239
00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:25.279
Fort Hood taxes when they're obviously I'm
terrified, I still can. Well,

240
00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:27.919
let me take you back a bit. When I signed for the army,

241
00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:33.679
there is something I think it's called
like nine whiskeys. There is something where

242
00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:41.600
they put on your contract to basically
be evaluated for English. So I didn't

243
00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:45.000
know that, and so I went
to basic training not knowing They're supposed to

244
00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:52.039
evaluate me if I can understand English
enough to go to AIT after that,

245
00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:55.759
or they'll send me to sant Antonio
for English as a second language. Well,

246
00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:59.320
I memorized the smart book, so
they thought I knew English. So

247
00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:00.840
people will ask me, like,
you know, what's this. I'll say

248
00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:03.519
a cup of coffee because the answer
is a cup of coffee, but not

249
00:17:03.680 --> 00:17:07.279
normally really, what's what's going on? So the droll sergeants they said,

250
00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:11.759
this guy can speak English good enough
to be in the army. So I'm

251
00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:14.599
like, great. So I didn't
know that till they told me. After

252
00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:19.759
then, when I went forth with
Texas, I was assigned to a military

253
00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:26.240
police unit. The military police unit
have a sergeant first class took me under

254
00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:30.000
his wings. And the guy,
really, I tell everybody like, when

255
00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:32.880
you join the army, you want
to go so there is a strategic assignment

256
00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:34.920
and tactical assignments. I tell everybody, like, go to a tactical assignment

257
00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:40.160
in the beginning, learn how to
soldier. If you are lucky, you're

258
00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:44.640
gonna have a good supervisor. He's
gonna teach you how to what's important in

259
00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:45.720
the army. So the guy was
like, hey, man, make sure

260
00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:49.920
your boots are spit shined, your
uniform is stored, and you have a

261
00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:55.119
high and tight haircut. Make sure
you can run. If you do those

262
00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:57.640
four things. You're gonna go places
on the RMS. I'm like, you

263
00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:03.480
know what, this is the easiest
job ever, because every Sunday I would

264
00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:07.319
spend my time on space shine in
my boots, I take my uniform to

265
00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:11.319
get it stored, you have a
haircut, and just run and I'm like,

266
00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:12.680
you know, this is easy.
So they starts sending me, like

267
00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:18.559
to take some computer classes, powpering
classes. The unit deployed to Bosnia four

268
00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:23.279
months after I was there, five
months after I was there, so basically

269
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:29.279
I deployed for nine months. Where
this is immersion. This is language immersion,

270
00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:36.480
military immersion. You are there with
the military for nine months. My

271
00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:40.039
first book that I really read that
was not in the school I've read when

272
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:44.079
I was there. My platoon sergeant
was a sergeant for a class. Green

273
00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.079
gave me the book and he's like, hey, read it and I'll help

274
00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:49.440
you with it. University of Maryland. When there, I took college classes.

275
00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:55.240
And then you soldier in twenty four
to seven. You go to sleep

276
00:18:55.279 --> 00:19:00.839
and you have your PT uniform and
your fatigues. You didn't even have any

277
00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:03.039
other clothes, so you're doing that
twenty four to seven. So I came

278
00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:10.400
back English is a lot better.
I can read more, and when I

279
00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:12.039
came back, I felt like I
can soldier a lot better. And then

280
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:17.839
when you're there, you exercise and
you're doing PT. I used to go

281
00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:22.079
out with the with the whenever they
were short, like you know, gunners.

282
00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:25.640
I'm a guy who's fit. Sergeant
first class Green trying to help me

283
00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:27.319
out, so he's like, hey, man, just go out with the

284
00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:32.079
whatever whoever is going on patrol.
So I would go out with units,

285
00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:34.759
going to squad's going and patrol,
come back do my job. I did

286
00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:38.640
that for the entire nine months I
was in Bosnia. When I came back,

287
00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:42.960
I was like, well, I've
done something cool. Let me PCs.

288
00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:48.480
So I asked PCs that they sent
me to Germany and was this in

289
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.839
the is still in the administrative field? Yeah? So I was in.

290
00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:57.240
I was in an admin guy and
uh, but I didn't really do a

291
00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:00.559
lot of I mean, I did
the admin work, but I I did

292
00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:03.000
the other stuff. Like when I
was in a military police unit, I

293
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:04.839
did the military police stuff. When
I went to Germany, I was in

294
00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:08.079
an infantry unit, so they sent
me to do infantry stuff. So I've

295
00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:11.920
learned a lot from that. And
then when I was in Germany I got

296
00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:17.000
my citizenship. They sent me back
to Texas to get my citizenship. Was

297
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:23.319
really cool. And the guy who
did my citizenship test, he's like,

298
00:20:23.319 --> 00:20:26.039
what are you gonna do next?
You can do anything you wanted, and

299
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:30.039
the order me now you order US
citizen. I'm like, awesome. I

300
00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:33.359
might be an officer, I might
do something else. I might be an

301
00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:37.279
my guy. But I wanted to
be an introgator. So I called Introgator

302
00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:42.920
branch and I said, hey,
guys, media citizen now, I want

303
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:45.119
to be an introgator. And the
guy was like what language. I said

304
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:51.480
Arabic. This was nineteen ninety nine
nine and the guy was like what language.

305
00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:53.319
I said Arabic. He's like,
I have no need for you.

306
00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:59.799
I'm like, so I wanted to
explain to him more. I said,

307
00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:03.519
bye, by the way, three
three Arabic native. You don't have to

308
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:06.079
send me to DL. I'm gonna
save you a lot of money. You

309
00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:08.960
just send me to school and it's
gonna save the army a year of training.

310
00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:12.480
He's like, what language again,
I said Arabic. He's like,

311
00:21:12.519 --> 00:21:15.559
I don't fucking need you. What
part of that you don't understand what part

312
00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:21.599
of Serbo crow at do you not
understand their Adam exactly? Adam just a

313
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:25.640
backup like when you were in basic
or any of that other time. Did

314
00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:29.240
they ever have you, like take
the d LAB, take the DLPT,

315
00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:33.359
do anything. Did they ever recognize
like your language skills and look to groom

316
00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:37.960
you because of that? He given
the military a lot of credit. Man,

317
00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:41.920
Well, absolutely not. So I'll
tell you. Actually the first guy

318
00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:47.440
he said something about language, the
guy who drove me from Maps, when

319
00:21:47.480 --> 00:21:51.519
he drove me from Maps back to
like to where I lived, and he's

320
00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:55.519
like, okay, I'm gonna ship
like you know, like a few few

321
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:57.240
weeks or a few months after because
I was in the delay entry program.

322
00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:02.240
The driver was like me in Spanish
and I said, well, I don't

323
00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:03.119
speak Spanish, and he's like,
well, language you speak? I said

324
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:07.440
Arabic. He's like, man,
it would become very very handy for you,

325
00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:11.119
just a driver. But after that, nobody ever said anything to me

326
00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:15.440
other than making fun of my fucking
accent. And then with my real last

327
00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:19.359
name, it sounds Spanish. So
everybody spoke to me in Spanish. So

328
00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:25.200
I've learned some Spanish, even when
I was in Germany and I thought about

329
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:30.759
ets in and so my supervisor,
who was my supervisor for about seven eight

330
00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:34.759
months, Major Russell, and he's
like, what are you gonna do?

331
00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:37.640
I said, I'm gonna go to
Dli to teach in Dli if I if

332
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:41.799
I ets And he's like, who
the fuck want to learn Spanish? Everybody

333
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:45.920
speaks Spanish. I was like,
I don't speak Spanish, and he's like,

334
00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:47.799
what do you speak? I said
Arabic. He's like, what did

335
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:52.160
you learn Arabic? I'm like,
I'm native. So nobody ever offered that.

336
00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:56.400
This is my shocked face, Yeah
I see this. But what I

337
00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:00.559
did is I took the test on
my own. Okay, I went and

338
00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:03.079
I said, you know what,
there is like a language test. Let

339
00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:07.079
me take it. So I took
the test. Get three to three,

340
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:10.400
I call and I'm like, guys, I want to I want to change

341
00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:15.559
my job. And then there was
a Sergeant first class Springles. She was

342
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:23.000
the She was the SI, the
Signal Intelligence Branch manager. There was no

343
00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:26.519
email, was not very common,
like every soldier had an email back then.

344
00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:30.480
So I get a message like one
of these things was like called telegram

345
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:33.359
message. So I get one of
these messages. If you want to read

346
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:37.559
class to Signal intelligence, call me. So I call her and I'm like,

347
00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:41.160
I got this message for me.
She's like, we'll give you twenty

348
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:45.680
thousand dollars if you read enlist,
stay in the Army, change to signal

349
00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:52.400
Intelligence. I'm like, say again, so this interrogator guy doesn't want to

350
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:56.359
even take me. You're gonna give
me twenty thousand dollars. Where do I

351
00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:00.119
sign? So? And she's like, so I did that, and so

352
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:04.559
I came from Germany for to Uh
She's gonna send me to school to a

353
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:11.400
good fellow Air Force base and I
get assignment to follow up assignment to d

354
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:15.519
L. I the teacher air it. So I call her. I'm like,

355
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:19.960
I just a brand new soldier in
that field. I don't want to

356
00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:22.240
go to the d L And I
was. I was. I was an

357
00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:26.279
E five then. So she's like, where did you want to go?

358
00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:29.000
I said, for brag. She's
like, you get to be the dumbest

359
00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:33.000
guy in the army. Send me
forty seven fax it. So I faxed

360
00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:37.720
her forty eighty seven. Next day
I had to follow up assignment to for

361
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:41.559
BRAG and I was like, uh, you know this is what I want

362
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.400
to be. And everybody was like, so you got the opportunity to be

363
00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:48.359
assigned to d I and he said
no. I said, yeah, Monterey

364
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:55.279
Calia with with like nine to five
work hours, no homework, weekends off

365
00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:59.960
I had, I had, I
had. Note you went to Carolina,

366
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:03.079
she offers you steak at lops and
you're like, I think I liked the

367
00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:08.240
beans exactly exactly. So I went
to airborne school in a route. So

368
00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:11.759
in airborne school, the black hat
is like, what's here, mos,

369
00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:14.720
I'm like ninety eight golf so it
t used to be ninety a golf before

370
00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:17.200
it became thirty five pounds. He's
like, what the fuck is that?

371
00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:21.480
Like they really didn't like it was
so unique and most a lot of people

372
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:22.960
didn't know anything about it. And
he's like I said, I was like,

373
00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:26.000
am I. He's like, you
get to me one of those smart

374
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:32.519
guys. So first jump in airborne
school, I bounced off the fucking ground

375
00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:37.079
like a sack of shit, like
and then the black hat comes with a

376
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:41.400
big fucking one of those mega horns
and he's like, hey, November,

377
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:45.640
did you break your fucking legs?
And I was like I was very light.

378
00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:49.519
When I went to Airborne school.
I was when I went to the

379
00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:52.119
eighty second, I remember the way
and was I was one hundred and twenty

380
00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:55.839
eight pounds when I joined on.
I was on hundred and twelve pounds.

381
00:25:55.880 --> 00:26:02.559
Wow. So when I went to
Airborne School, I used to see everybody

382
00:26:02.599 --> 00:26:07.839
landing and I'm like hanging there,
and I was just I'm like, when

383
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:11.200
am I gonna come down? Of
course he come down, and he bounced

384
00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:11.920
off a few times, and I
was like, man, I think I

385
00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:17.359
broke my thigh. I had a
picture, like really really bruised and blue.

386
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:22.400
But I've learned really like how to
Like again, English is improven as

387
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:26.839
you move on. And then I
go to the eighty second, and I'm

388
00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:32.759
the first. It was an my
battalion within the eighty second, and I

389
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:37.480
was the first. They were changing
that battalion from Spanish to Arabic. So

390
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:41.680
again I go there and nobody thinks
I spoke Arabic. Like this guy Spanish

391
00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:47.440
unit, he looks Spanish, he
must be Spanish linguist. So everybody speaking

392
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:51.559
in Spanish, I'm like, guys, I swear I don't speak Spanish.

393
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:53.680
But the S three sergeant major was
a good guy used to run with all

394
00:26:53.720 --> 00:27:00.359
the time. So they there was
a deal better between DUD and the FBI

395
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:07.720
that they when the FBI needed linguists, they can borrow from DUD. So

396
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:11.279
we had the guy and they united. His name was Muhammad, so obviously

397
00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:17.599
if the unit speaker, actually he
was a supply guy. So obviously if

398
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:22.000
the unit has one Arabic speaker,
it must be Muhammed. So when the

399
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:26.519
FBI asked for the Arabic speaker and
the unit had one, so they went

400
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:29.160
to Muhammad. They were like,
Hey, we needed to go to Dui

401
00:27:29.319 --> 00:27:32.119
for the FBI because they need an
arab speaker. My mom's like, I

402
00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:37.079
don't fucking speak Arabic. So the
S three sergeant Media goes to the S

403
00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:40.960
one, the admin section, and
they're like, hey, who speaks Arabic?

404
00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:44.319
And she's like, you're running buddy
speaks Arabic. So he comes to

405
00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:48.680
me and he's like, hey,
Sergeant g what fucking language do you speak?

406
00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:51.279
He said Arabic and he's like,
how the fuck did you learn Arabic?

407
00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:55.839
Everybody really for the longest thought I
spoke Spanish. So I ended up

408
00:27:55.839 --> 00:28:00.839
going to the FBI for three months
in nineteen ninety nine and what were you

409
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:07.400
doing when you were tdy to the
FBI. So the FBI, they had

410
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:11.759
one part I can talk about,
but it was like related to the bern

411
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:17.599
Laden personality himself. And then the
other part is they had the Arcade Manual.

412
00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:21.519
They had it for a few years. They had a lot of military

413
00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:26.039
terms in it, and the FBI
linguists couldn't translate it. So they borrowed

414
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:32.400
three of us from the military,
who had another Army guy and Navy female.

415
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:36.640
The three of us went to do
that translation, and honestly, it

416
00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:41.279
was one of the easiest jobs because
a lot of because the translation from Arabic

417
00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:45.160
to English was actually retranslating back what
was translated from English to Arabic. Oh

418
00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:48.319
inter it was an actual army manual. It was an actual army manual.

419
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:52.599
The security guard of the private security
guard of Bin Laden used to be a

420
00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:57.480
supply clerk in the army. Was
an Egyptian American. Yes he worked at

421
00:28:57.559 --> 00:29:03.759
Special Forces. Yes, yeah,
he worked in Special Forces and order for

422
00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:07.039
he was building the manual for them. So he took a lot of US

423
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:11.599
Army manuals and translated into like how
to do a SWI seat, how to

424
00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:17.000
seize an airfield, so a lot
of these things that how do the land

425
00:29:17.079 --> 00:29:19.039
have? So for me, it
was like, this is gonna be the

426
00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:22.119
easiest job ever. It's going to
give me a certain bate of appreciation from

427
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:27.440
the director of the FBI. So
I think it took me less than three

428
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:30.440
months to translated by I said there
for three months. Were the other two

429
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.200
people that were working with you?
Were they both native speakers or were they

430
00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:36.559
the el trined, No, they
were the elitron. I was the only

431
00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:41.160
native speaker. I was like,
and I'm sure you guys know this.

432
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:45.559
So in the second branch, the
Army manual said, in order for you

433
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:48.599
to have a TSSCI, you have
to be a US born. Believe it

434
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:52.119
or not, you have to be
a US born or oh, I didn't

435
00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:57.400
know that you cannot have foreign relatives. Interesting, so a native has to

436
00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:03.640
have foreign relatives because we don't grow
in sure, but there is a caveat

437
00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:07.880
there where they can do compelling needs, like somebody has a military unit or

438
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:12.359
an intel organization can sponsor you to
do a compelling needs to say Okay,

439
00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:15.759
we're willing to give that guy a
clearance because the risk. Yeah, operational

440
00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:19.039
requires operational requirements. So that's how
I got my cress. It took me

441
00:30:19.079 --> 00:30:23.119
four years to get my clearance.
So I was one of very very very

442
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:27.960
few needs at that time. I
was one of extremely few natives in the

443
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:33.319
second branch. And since you were
in signals intelligence, I mean, were

444
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:37.319
you learning the signals field as well? I mean, like I think when

445
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:40.079
I think of someone like yourself,
I think like, oh, crypto linguist,

446
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:42.759
like that would be kind of the
position for someone like you. So

447
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:47.839
yes, I was learning the signal
of stuff and honestly known the language made

448
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:55.480
made gave me an advantage because you
would spend time on sergeant's time on Thursday

449
00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:57.599
to practice your language. For me, I didn't need to do that.

450
00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:00.279
I would just turn I would get
equip and just play with the equipment.

451
00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:07.559
And then when I was in the
unit, I wrote the book about they

452
00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:11.720
had the equipment and they if you
break it, it's okay. So I'm

453
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:12.680
like, okay, let me play
with this equipment to figure it out.

454
00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:17.559
So I had more time to spend
on the equipment where other guys were spending

455
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:22.599
time on learning the language. So
I see it like the guys who were

456
00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:26.000
d l I trained and knowing the
equipment, they worked twice as hard as

457
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:29.400
I did when it comes to language. Yeah, and we had guys who

458
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:33.160
were phenomenal linguists who were the ally
trained, but a lot of that was

459
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:37.279
their own personal effort that went into
it. Like if somebody came out of

460
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:41.680
DLI and then it didn't like pursue
it on their own and didn't really kind

461
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:47.480
of try, like like DLI leaves
you with sort of a good working knowledge,

462
00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:51.079
but a flat level also correct.
DLI gives you a foundation. Yeah,

463
00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:55.720
but the guys who have seen they
were like phenomenal linguags as they after

464
00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:59.519
d l I did emergent training,
they went to Middlebury for training. They

465
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:05.039
want to DLI East for turnity,
they went overseas. But we had guys

466
00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:07.319
who were extremely smart, Like in
the unit where like there is a guy

467
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:10.920
and I talked about him in the
book in the beginning, I was like,

468
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.400
there is no way he learned Arabic
in four months, in no fucking

469
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:17.680
way. So I sat with him
and we watched like SOAPAPRAA and I'm like,

470
00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:22.240
what did they just say? And
then he would tell me exactly what

471
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:24.880
they said. And that was like
Egyptian Arabic. I was like, let

472
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:28.920
me change it to Libanese Arabic.
Yeah, So I changed it to Liberanese

473
00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:30.279
Aeric and I was like, hey, just tell me what what just happened?

474
00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:32.319
And he would say and I was
like, that guy learned Arabic in

475
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:37.559
four months. So we had guys
who were like gifted. We had a

476
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:42.640
guy learned smallly in about three four
months. And those guys used to humble

477
00:32:42.680 --> 00:32:45.200
the heck out of me, and
I'm like, man, I'm the dumbest

478
00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:47.759
guy in the room, so i
gotta work harder. So they really encouraged

479
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:52.279
me to work even harder in knowing
the equipment or then I went and I

480
00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:57.079
runned. So I took some Farsi
classes, I took some Swahili classes.

481
00:32:57.319 --> 00:32:59.400
I was like, an order for
me to keep up with these guys,

482
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:02.160
I have to do something, to
learn something. You cannot just be the

483
00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:06.359
hey, man, I grew up
learning, I grew up speaking Arabic,

484
00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:08.359
and I've learned English in the streets
of New York and look at me,

485
00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:13.279
I'm smart. No, So you
really have to to work twice as hard

486
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:16.119
as This is a really sort of
nerdy question about this, But for people

487
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:20.559
who are listening and don't understand,
when we say a ts s c I,

488
00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:24.799
we're talking about a top secret clearance
with sensitive compartmentalized information, which is

489
00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:30.160
you know, it's it's a very
high level of clearance. I thought you

490
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:31.920
had to have a ts s c
I to go to Goodfellow. I thought

491
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:38.119
the whole doesn't. Doesn't the whole
sigan like, uh, sort of umbrella

492
00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:45.480
require Yeah, to give you an
INTERRUMM s C I and I had this

493
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:49.599
introm for a good three four years, and then I was in the eighty

494
00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:55.559
second. I was in in Fort
Bragg WHENNE eleven happened, but I was

495
00:33:55.559 --> 00:34:01.440
supposed to go to nach So Advance
None Commission Officer School to be an e

496
00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:07.400
seven. After that an awkward being
up. So I was going to Wachuka

497
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:14.039
for training and that was like a
few months I would say, maybe two

498
00:34:14.119 --> 00:34:19.199
or three months after nine eleven when
I'm there. So phase one is common

499
00:34:19.239 --> 00:34:22.079
core, there is no required clearance
there. Then phase two, and I

500
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:24.239
excelled in phase one and I was
like, you know, I got like,

501
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:27.920
you know all of this, you
know, exceed the court stand there.

502
00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:30.840
Then I'm super happy. I'm like
I'm a guy wearing my maroon berre.

503
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:36.320
I'm from the eighty second and then
first day in phase two, I

504
00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:40.920
get pulled aside and our fact advisor
he pulls me like the NCO guy in

505
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:44.960
teaching us. He pulled me aside, and he's like, I'm surely hard

506
00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:47.119
what's going on? So you know
we you need to go talk to the

507
00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:49.800
screw girl. I was like,
honest, I didn't hear anything, but

508
00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:54.679
what's going on? So they pulled
me aside because they suspended my introim clearance.

509
00:34:54.840 --> 00:35:00.960
Wow, randomly after nine eleven.
Wow. The reason is you fill

510
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:05.239
out your sa F eighty six.
That's your when you apply for your clearance.

511
00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:07.400
So my SAF eighty six. That
was a question. It's one of

512
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:14.840
those. It was like an application
like a paper, nothing online, and

513
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:20.880
it says one of the questions it
says do you hold, like something like

514
00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:23.880
do you hold or have you ever
held another passport? So the two questions

515
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:30.199
in one and the answer can be
yes to either. So I answered yes

516
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:36.559
because I did hold another passport in
the past. Then the question right after

517
00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:39.880
that, what's your passport number?
And that's your yes passport number. So

518
00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:46.000
I put my passport number, and
the security lady in Wachuka and fourth Wachuka

519
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:50.039
pulls me aside and she's like,
hey, you have an Egyptian passport.

520
00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:53.000
You didn't tell us about. So, me, being an eighty second guy

521
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:57.320
smart ass, I was like,
well, you know something I don't know.

522
00:35:57.880 --> 00:36:00.360
I'm glad you know that I have
an Egyptian passport, becau I don't

523
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:02.440
have an Egyptian passport. She's like, well, here and she showed me,

524
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:05.639
and I was like, well,
if you read the question, yeah,

525
00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:08.360
English is my fucking second language,
but I can read. If you

526
00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:13.480
read the question, it's double it
can be either. It's two questions in

527
00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:16.639
one. And she's like, well, you have to show me the US

528
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:21.159
passport that you're talking about with this
number. So I was like, well,

529
00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:22.639
I didn't know Arizona's outside of the
US. I needed to bring my

530
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:25.840
passport to come into Arizona. So
obviously he's like, okay, it's more

531
00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:30.400
less. You have twenty four hours
to show us your passport or you're going

532
00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:35.559
to be kicked out of the course. So I was kicked out of the

533
00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:42.519
course. So I went back to
brag. The battalion sergeant major had a

534
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:45.360
fit because he's like, he had
an NCO goat kicked out of school for

535
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:50.360
nothing wrong. I've done. I
exceeded course stand there. I was doing

536
00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:54.000
very well. So he's like,
fuck, this compelling meeting, the clearance

537
00:36:54.039 --> 00:37:00.880
thing is taken forever. So they
got some CIO or an officer from installation,

538
00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:05.239
so they did some extra interviews.
The warrant officer he did the interview,

539
00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:07.679
asked me all of these different questions. He had like a three hour

540
00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:10.000
interview with me, and he's like, I'm not supposed to tell you this,

541
00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:15.440
but I'm gonna write the strongest recommendation
for your your clearance to be finalized.

542
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:21.400
During that time, I had been
interviewed, initial interview to go to

543
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:24.760
the unit. Yeah, I had
an application and I sent the application right

544
00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:29.400
after nine eleven. I was gonna
leave the Army, honestly before nine eleven.

545
00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:34.880
Nine to eleven. Made mistake.
So I ended up getting my clearance

546
00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:38.079
because I got kicked out in school, so the expedited my clearance. Then

547
00:37:38.119 --> 00:37:43.480
I went back to FIST two and
I passed did you visit her office?

548
00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:45.199
I didn't. I was like that
lady, most likely if she sees me,

549
00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:50.599
she's gonna show me you've you made
E seven, you went through a

550
00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:53.639
knock you already have in your mind
now after nine to eleven, that you've

551
00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:57.320
heard of this other unit out there
that you'd like to go and try out

552
00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:00.920
for. What was that process like
applying for it and then going to selection.

553
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:06.559
So honestly, I've never heard of
the unit. I I was.

554
00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:08.760
They were recruiting for Brag, and
my first started was like, hey,

555
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:12.239
there is a good recruiting. There
is a unit recruiting. I think I

556
00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:15.719
was an E six at that time, there was there is a unit recruiting

557
00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:19.280
you should go. I had no
idea there is a unit exists. I

558
00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:22.280
was like, I like to tell
you, like I was really one of

559
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:23.760
the dumbest guys in the army.
I'm like, I have no idea what's

560
00:38:23.800 --> 00:38:27.360
going on in the army. I've
heard of Delta, I've heard of like

561
00:38:27.400 --> 00:38:30.800
you know, the Green Beret,
the Rangers. Obviously everybody knows. But

562
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:37.119
I'm like, what's this. So
when they were recruiting, I had gotten

563
00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:42.800
married, my wife getting her masters
from Fatteville State University, and for BRAG,

564
00:38:44.119 --> 00:38:45.760
we just bought a candle. I'm
like, that's it, I need

565
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:51.840
it. I arrived it's the life. So when they came and they gave

566
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:53.679
me a packet, I took the
packet and I ignored it. Nine to

567
00:38:53.679 --> 00:39:00.679
eleven happened, and I got another
call from the recruiter who I spoke about

568
00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:02.320
in the book, one of the
smartest guys I've ever met in my life.

569
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:07.519
And he's like, hey, with
everything happening, we just checking what's

570
00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:10.800
your packet? I said, you
know what, You'll have it like within

571
00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:15.280
days. I went home that day
filled out the entire application, which is

572
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:19.519
a thick application. You write stuff, and you write, you do hand

573
00:39:19.639 --> 00:39:22.440
writing and stuff, and obviously if
English is your second language, you like,

574
00:39:22.599 --> 00:39:23.719
how the fuck? So I'm like, you know, I'm writing and

575
00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:27.639
I'm taking my time on my hand's
hurt. And then I fed back to

576
00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:32.199
the packet to him. Like a
few days after then, I get invited

577
00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:36.480
to go to this selection. I
had no idea, Like what's this about?

578
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:40.159
And I think it's part of the
selection process is are you willing to

579
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:44.599
take a leap of faith? Are
you a guy who willing to do something

580
00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:50.599
without knowing what's in the end?
What's in the end? And I think

581
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:53.719
it's design that way. It's like, are you willing to If I tell

582
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:57.320
you go out through that door not
knowing what's on the other side, are

583
00:39:57.360 --> 00:39:59.360
you willing to do? And I
think that's what they were looking for,

584
00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:04.239
somebody who's just willing to take the
risk. So I get invited to selection.

585
00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:10.519
I go to selection and my wife
was pregnant at that time. Selection

586
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:15.400
was brutal for me. There are
some guys in selection. They were with

587
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:19.400
me. You can tell these guys
like they got some intel, like they

588
00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:23.079
know what's happening. They know what
exactly so they know what's happening next.

589
00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:28.679
And my advice to anybody don't just
go with it. Just go with it,

590
00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:31.079
because when you go with it,
you really know don't know what to

591
00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:35.800
expect. When they tell you run, run, they tell you walk,

592
00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:37.880
walk, and they're not going to
tell you how much or how long or

593
00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:43.119
how far. You just do it
and don't quit. Then you'll make it.

594
00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:46.119
So the first few days in selection, again I was doing. I

595
00:40:46.119 --> 00:40:49.079
came from a tactically, you know, it came from the eighty second.

596
00:40:50.119 --> 00:40:52.159
So in the eighty second you do
a lot of land naps. So I'm

597
00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:58.320
good with land naps, land navigation. And the first few days in selection.

598
00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:00.920
I think the first two three days, I think I did everything wrong,

599
00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:04.039
like everything they gave me to do, which was a lot of land

600
00:41:04.119 --> 00:41:07.039
navigation, a lot of and I'm
like, and they talk really fast,

601
00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:09.719
and I don't understand what they're saying. And I was like, after two

602
00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:15.440
three days, I go and lay
down in my on my bunk bed and

603
00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:17.440
I raise my legs in the air
because they are sore. I'm like,

604
00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:21.800
what the fuck is wrong with me? Like I'm just doing everything wrong.

605
00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:24.000
And then I thought, I was
like, you know, every problem has

606
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:27.840
a solution. I just need to
calm down. I need to get my

607
00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:31.800
shit together. And I put it
in my mind like these guys they asked

608
00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:36.840
me to come to selection for a
reason. I must have something that they

609
00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:39.599
are looking for. So I just
need to calm the fuck down and just

610
00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:44.360
do what I need to do without
expecting anything. There is no feedback.

611
00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:49.920
Without expecting any feedback, just do
your best. And then from day three

612
00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:52.440
I think things turned around for me
and I'm like, Okay, you know

613
00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:55.280
what, if they asked me to
run, We're gonna fucking run. I'm

614
00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:59.599
gonna give it all I have and
if I don't, if I'm not the

615
00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:02.480
first because I came again. I
came. I was like when I was

616
00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:07.199
in Germany, I was like Soldier
of the Year. I was like in

617
00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:09.199
the eighty second, I was a
guy who runs around the formation and annoy

618
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:13.679
the fuck out of everybody because you're
the guy who can run you. So

619
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:16.280
I'm thinking I'm special when you go
there and everybody there is special, right,

620
00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:19.599
and I'm not special. But you
said at the same time, if

621
00:42:19.639 --> 00:42:22.119
I recall, right from reading your
book, that you know there were like

622
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:24.760
special Forces guys that didn't make it
through this selection of course, we had

623
00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:30.000
guys again, because I think when
you go to selection thinking you're special,

624
00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:35.639
yeah, it hits you hard when
you realize yeah, you're not. Yeah.

625
00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:37.519
So I'm like, okay, I'm
having this hard time, so let

626
00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:42.639
me just let me do my best. So if there is an obstacle course,

627
00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:45.239
I'm gonna do my best obstacle course
in the military, in general,

628
00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:50.400
in air assault school, in any
and any honestly, any obstacle courses not

629
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:54.199
designed for short people. And I'm
like, what the fuck. So part

630
00:42:54.239 --> 00:42:59.440
of this obstacle course, I'm like, I'm gonna I'm coming down like an

631
00:42:59.480 --> 00:43:02.440
obstacle and I'm like, I'm holding
with one arm, like am I gonna

632
00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:07.480
reach like what's there? Or I'm
gonna fall in my ass and it's high

633
00:43:07.519 --> 00:43:10.880
and you're like, this is gonna
fucking hurt. But again that's that leap

634
00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:14.840
of faith. And then there is
a there was like one of the cadres

635
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:16.800
down there, I think island like
they felt bad for me or they're like

636
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:21.039
whenever I had the guy that fucking
short going through this, help out.

637
00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:25.159
So some guy goes and he's like, hey, and they have like different

638
00:43:25.239 --> 00:43:29.920
names for you, so he calls
me that name. Just move your fucking

639
00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:32.159
leg to the right of bit,
just reach out to the left the bit,

640
00:43:32.840 --> 00:43:35.760
and then just let go, Man, let go. And I'm like,

641
00:43:35.800 --> 00:43:37.119
man, if I let go and
I fall, it's gonna hurt.

642
00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:42.840
Then finally again I froze honestly for
a bit, and then finally I let

643
00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:49.119
go and I landed in another like
pipe, but none of none of the

644
00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:51.760
obstacle course in the Army design for
short people. I think they need to

645
00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:54.599
revisit this shit. Yeah exactly.
Yeah, hey, And before we kind

646
00:43:54.599 --> 00:43:59.320
of move into the you know,
I would love to ask you about the

647
00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:05.079
ninety eight golf field in general,
because you know, and it's thirty five,

648
00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:09.639
No thirty five just for like any
viewers, you might be thinking about

649
00:44:09.639 --> 00:44:14.519
it because you know, it's it's
rare to go to a tack position in

650
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:17.400
that job, like a lot of
people go to you know, listening posts

651
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:22.480
and you know, sit in a
nice area and and whatnot. What what

652
00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:29.920
was it like for you? Were
was the eighty second using signers the way

653
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:35.000
like assat a might be used.
Were they used? Did you have vehicles?

654
00:44:35.199 --> 00:44:38.639
Was it like land based? What
was that kind of Yeah? What

655
00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:42.440
was it like to be? So? We had so the eighty second of

656
00:44:42.440 --> 00:44:46.199
the FM was using We had jammin
guys. We have lv I, which

657
00:44:46.239 --> 00:44:52.280
is like the lower level voice and
the supervise and we have the collector guys

658
00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:55.880
in a system called the turkey,
which is a truck. Uh the jam

659
00:44:55.880 --> 00:45:00.280
in guys, it was a telkey
whatever that stands for. But when you

660
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:04.440
turn the jammer on, it fucking
fries your goddamn brain. I think that's

661
00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:09.039
why a lot of singing guys have
daughters no sons. Yeah. I was

662
00:45:09.079 --> 00:45:14.519
in an LVII team, which is
basically you jump you supposedly you jump into

663
00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:19.039
you jump with the scouts and you
carry your stuff and you go set up

664
00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:25.280
a high sight and you do collection. That's in theory. Was the eighty

665
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:30.280
second or I met fourth id guys
in Iraq. I met a lot of

666
00:45:30.280 --> 00:45:34.599
the tactical units in Iraq. Honestly, none of them was doing that.

667
00:45:34.679 --> 00:45:37.400
So after when nine to eleven happened, if you asked me what the eighty

668
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:42.800
second singing guys were doing, we
were PMCs and vehicles in the mororpool.

669
00:45:43.159 --> 00:45:45.039
We just spend a lot of time
in the mororpool to make sure all our

670
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:51.480
home vies are lined up. They
have There is no oil drips, it's

671
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:53.360
not drop and oil. And you
fucking inspect the vehicle every week, just

672
00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:58.360
without you driving the vehicle at all. You just inspected every week because that's

673
00:45:58.360 --> 00:46:04.079
how he keeps soldiers busy. So
tactical units are good to learn soldiering,

674
00:46:04.840 --> 00:46:07.280
but they were not. As a
matter of fact, if you didn't have

675
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:09.920
a final cleayarance, it was okay
because you don't have access to anything.

676
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:14.039
Access to the gear. Yeah,
so, and even the gear you had

677
00:46:14.039 --> 00:46:19.000
with tactical gears gears, so you
were not really doing a lot of a

678
00:46:19.039 --> 00:46:24.760
lot of things. My recommendation to
anybody who wanted to join that field still

679
00:46:24.760 --> 00:46:28.400
go to a tactical unit first,
because you're going to learn how to soldier.

680
00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:30.760
You're going to learn how to where
your uniform, You're going to learn

681
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:35.679
discipline. Then go after that if
you go to a strategic assylumly, if

682
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:37.199
you go to the n Essay,
I mean you go to the NESSA and

683
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:40.719
you see like second guys will never
been in a regular army units and you

684
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:45.039
look at them and you're like,
do do you know how to put your

685
00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:47.800
uniform on? Yeah? But you
still you still need to that discipline of

686
00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:54.280
soldiering. I feel like the Saudis
really prove their worth, Like during the

687
00:46:54.360 --> 00:47:01.480
gat, do you feel that the
big army just doesn't understand how to employ

688
00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:05.760
Yeah, to a certain extent,
because again are you fall under And I

689
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:08.079
think they changed a lot now,
but I'm talking about like things like twenty

690
00:47:08.119 --> 00:47:15.519
years ago, you are under a
like a combat brigade team. The brigade

691
00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:19.599
commander is like when you go tell
him singing team and they get to jump

692
00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:22.679
with your scouts and he's like,
no, my scout's got to my scouts's

693
00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:25.400
gotta do all of these things.
Why do I need these singing guys because

694
00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:30.599
he doesn't know they are not.
Again, it's a very very small field

695
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:32.360
in the army. Not a lot
of people know things about it. They

696
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:36.920
know you're gonna put your headset on, you're gonna listen to what we don't

697
00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:45.599
know. But obviously siggin is.
I mean, there is huge arguments between

698
00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:49.440
singing guys and human guys. Which
one is more important. I think both

699
00:47:49.480 --> 00:47:52.639
of them are important. Obviously,
after nine eleven the whole thing changed.

700
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:59.519
Singing became to a lot of people, became a lot more crucial than human

701
00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:04.679
Again, I don't agree or disagree. I think you can use both.

702
00:48:05.320 --> 00:48:15.599
But tracking bad guys through sigin became
very efficient during the g Walk and that

703
00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:19.360
it became like, you know the
game, and I've seen human guys using

704
00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:23.519
sigin equipment to track guys. It
just became it was a trend. I

705
00:48:23.559 --> 00:48:29.679
guess. Yeah. And when when
you went to selection, did you have

706
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:31.800
any did they tell you or were
you able to request or did you know

707
00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:36.119
were you going to be continue to
be a signals intelligence guy or were they

708
00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:38.320
going to try to bring you into
the human intelligence side. They don't tell

709
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:45.119
you. And my first week,
so past selection. I think we were

710
00:48:45.159 --> 00:48:49.920
lost about sixty five to seventy percent, so I'm not going to get in

711
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:52.360
exact numbers. Past selection, they
said, hey, your wife is pregnant,

712
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:57.280
you can postpone your PCs. I
said, no, I don't know

713
00:48:57.320 --> 00:49:00.559
if the GG gonna wait for me. I gotta go. My first week

714
00:49:01.400 --> 00:49:13.000
in the course, it was me
another two or three guys. They pulled

715
00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:19.239
us aside and they talked about possibility
of moving us, and for me it

716
00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:22.519
was an and no started because I'm
like, I just PCSD from Ford Bragg

717
00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:25.079
to where I'm supposed to be and
you guys gonna move me again, and

718
00:49:25.159 --> 00:49:29.159
my wife has given birth like in
a week or two. I'm not playing

719
00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:35.480
that. But they ended up the
singing side trumped because we were singing guys.

720
00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:38.320
I think if we came from a
different MS, it would have been

721
00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:42.679
more in negoshable. But they don't
tell you, and honestly, you don't

722
00:49:42.679 --> 00:49:46.440
know even you don't know the structure
of the organization till after you graduate the

723
00:49:46.480 --> 00:49:52.199
course. So during the course you're
like, what am I doing? Like?

724
00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:54.760
Why am I here? Right?
They again, they break the course

725
00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:59.800
into phases, and every phase is
different. It's something different and they're like,

726
00:49:59.800 --> 00:50:02.119
hey, yeah, next week,
are you gonna Let's just make sure

727
00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:07.599
you pack your bags for being in
the jungle. And then you pack and

728
00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:09.559
you don't know where you go and
you don't know what's going on, and

729
00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:15.119
it's part it's design that for you
not knowing what will be there, and

730
00:50:15.159 --> 00:50:19.280
I think it plays with your psychology. A lot of us in the military,

731
00:50:19.639 --> 00:50:21.920
we need to take a PET test, they count. I mean,

732
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:25.559
you're doing your P test and the
account one two three, where in that

733
00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:30.800
community they don't. So you do
push ups and they don't tell you.

734
00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:34.559
They say start and you keep doing
it and they stop and you're like,

735
00:50:34.599 --> 00:50:37.519
okay, how many do they do? Did they pass? So they trying

736
00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:42.679
to select people are not looking for
feedback, They're not looking for validation.

737
00:50:43.639 --> 00:50:46.679
It's psychological. If you have the
people who was looking for validation, I

738
00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:52.039
think that that could become like risky. With of the training pipeline that you

739
00:50:52.119 --> 00:50:59.320
went through after selection, what were
your favorite and least favorite aspects of it?

740
00:50:59.320 --> 00:51:04.360
It's a good question, So I'll
talk about that not classified stuff.

741
00:51:05.679 --> 00:51:10.159
I loved fucking crashing course. So
you go and you're like, you drive

742
00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:16.480
this defense defensive driving course and you
crash course and you drive like a maniac,

743
00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:21.800
and I'm like, man, this
is just like Egypt. It's like

744
00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:24.400
a traffic circle, right, It's
like a traffic circle. Yeah, And

745
00:51:24.440 --> 00:51:29.039
I'm like, I'm back home.
Uh So that those some of those,

746
00:51:29.599 --> 00:51:32.639
like defensive driving courses were really cool. My least favorite was like the lack

747
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:37.960
of fucking sleep because you are given
there are some tasks you do as a

748
00:51:37.960 --> 00:51:40.079
team, but there are a lot
of tasks you do as a singleton,

749
00:51:42.199 --> 00:51:45.960
and as a singleton you're like,
am I am I doing the right thing?

750
00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:47.840
Am I not doing the right thing? Do I need? What time

751
00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:50.480
do I need to wake up?
What time do you need to sleep?

752
00:51:50.840 --> 00:51:52.480
And then you are there are things
that you're doing and in order for you

753
00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:54.920
to do it right, I mean, some guys would like, you know,

754
00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:59.280
just finish it quickly, go to
sleep by ten, wake up at

755
00:51:59.320 --> 00:52:02.000
six next day. They got their
eight hours of sleep. But we had

756
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:05.519
guys who are like, no,
I'm gonna stay on it, and did

757
00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:07.280
I do it right? Can I
do it better? And you keep doing

758
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:10.760
it better and better and better and
better, and then you realize, well

759
00:52:10.760 --> 00:52:14.679
you have only three hours to sleep. Then you sleep those three hours and

760
00:52:14.719 --> 00:52:17.480
then you wake up and so they
lack sleep. And then my wife just

761
00:52:17.480 --> 00:52:22.920
had a we had we just had
our first born baby, and I'm like,

762
00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:24.280
I'm not going home or I'm going
home just to sleep for a couple

763
00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:29.079
of hours. So my wife needed
that that family support them. We didn't

764
00:52:29.079 --> 00:52:31.199
have anybody. We didn't have anybody, We didn't have family in the US.

765
00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:37.599
So I think after like three months
after my first daughter was born,

766
00:52:37.679 --> 00:52:39.880
my wife took her and went to
Egypt till I finished the course, and

767
00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:45.920
then she came right before graduation two
months after I graduated. Again, this

768
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:50.280
was during nine to eleven. Two
months after graduation, I went to my

769
00:52:50.320 --> 00:52:53.960
first deployment. So my wife ended
up traveling again, not because she because

770
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:59.559
we didn't have that family supports structure. And if it's snowing and she had

771
00:52:59.559 --> 00:53:02.239
a baby, and like literally she
would call, you know, like other

772
00:53:02.360 --> 00:53:06.840
unit guys wives and she's like,
I'm really really sorry, but it's snow

773
00:53:06.920 --> 00:53:08.639
and I cannot take my door out
my courts stop. Can you get me

774
00:53:08.679 --> 00:53:15.079
diapers? And we did have other
family members who were go and buy diapers

775
00:53:15.079 --> 00:53:19.639
and bring it to the house.
So the unit, I'm not gonna say

776
00:53:19.639 --> 00:53:22.960
the unit as a structure did that
because we didn't have that family supper google

777
00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:24.960
like regular army units do, but
we had the guys went through the course

778
00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:29.079
with me, and we became like
a family. So she would call one

779
00:53:29.079 --> 00:53:34.360
of the one of the wives to
do that. But yeah, least favorite

780
00:53:34.360 --> 00:53:38.239
thing is black sleep and again driving
like crazy. I think I love that

781
00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:42.760
shit. Yeah, so you get
qualified, you get your certificate and all

782
00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:45.599
that good stuff, and you said
you're out the door in two months.

783
00:53:45.760 --> 00:53:50.960
Yeap. Whereabouts are they sending you? So I went to the Middle East.

784
00:53:51.559 --> 00:53:54.840
I went to a golf country.
We talked about it in the book

785
00:53:55.519 --> 00:54:00.519
briefly, but it's like you go
to college and when you graduate, he

786
00:54:00.679 --> 00:54:02.760
realized that you don't know shit.
I'm like, man, I just went

787
00:54:02.800 --> 00:54:07.039
training for like, you know,
a year, and I was like,

788
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:09.239
I thought I was on top of
my game. And I deployed. And

789
00:54:09.320 --> 00:54:14.920
my first deployment. One of the
guys who was the class before me,

790
00:54:17.119 --> 00:54:22.800
I'll call him Mike for this,
but he used to be driving. I'm

791
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:28.239
sitting next to him with the equipment
and he's telling me, so click on

792
00:54:28.280 --> 00:54:32.280
this icon, open this drop down
menu, and I'm like, is he

793
00:54:32.320 --> 00:54:36.559
fucking really like, is he seeing
what I'm seeing or he's just he had

794
00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:40.679
it in his memory, like he
knew the equipment inside out. He spoke

795
00:54:40.719 --> 00:54:45.360
Arabic, he looked like an Arab
guy, he was Mexican American, and

796
00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:50.920
he went through like step by step, and then I realized, and all

797
00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:54.280
of the stuff I've learned is nothing
I'm now learning. Then the guys you

798
00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:58.800
deploy with first they teach you,
and they are patient enough to like,

799
00:54:59.320 --> 00:55:02.039
okay, this English as like a
language guy. We're taking him a step

800
00:55:02.039 --> 00:55:06.840
by step to teach him. But
then I was helping them by like going

801
00:55:06.880 --> 00:55:10.800
to the walking with them in the
streets and speaking Arabic. And then I

802
00:55:10.840 --> 00:55:13.519
was like, hey, man,
just you don't have to talk. They

803
00:55:13.599 --> 00:55:16.079
then I think we're both like just
Arab guys smoke some CHEESHI together. Did

804
00:55:16.119 --> 00:55:24.199
you you know obviously Egyptian, you
know lega is is very distinct. Did

805
00:55:24.239 --> 00:55:28.920
you practice it all or did you
work on, you know, like different

806
00:55:28.960 --> 00:55:32.320
dialects in order to sort of try
to fit in more in different places.

807
00:55:32.559 --> 00:55:37.199
Yeah, so in some of the
deployments. So this first deployment was extremely

808
00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:43.599
funny. We had a gate guard
in our house, and the guy was

809
00:55:43.639 --> 00:55:45.760
like, if you if you didn't
speak Arabic, I would have thought you

810
00:55:45.760 --> 00:55:49.280
were an Arab. But once you
speak Arabic, I didn't think you're an

811
00:55:49.320 --> 00:55:52.559
Arab because your Arabic is broken.
And I was like, that's the funniest

812
00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:54.440
thing I've ever heard in my life. But then you pick, you talk

813
00:55:54.480 --> 00:55:58.679
to the gods, you talk to
people in the streets, and then you

814
00:55:58.719 --> 00:56:04.519
start picking. Their are very distinct
words from one dialect or another. So

815
00:56:04.599 --> 00:56:07.360
in deployments, I did that to
the point if I was there for like

816
00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:09.079
you know, two three months.
After two three months, I could carry

817
00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:14.239
a conversation with somebody, they would
think I'm locally okay, So you're not

818
00:56:14.280 --> 00:56:19.960
because you're not just talking about like
the colloquialisms like shrinik, but also like

819
00:56:20.239 --> 00:56:29.400
the addition from right which Egyptians they
say gah, others they say jah.

820
00:56:29.440 --> 00:56:32.159
So you pick those things and then
that the different words. And then for

821
00:56:32.239 --> 00:56:37.519
example, every like the country like
for some reason, the word money,

822
00:56:37.639 --> 00:56:43.719
it has different there is a different
word for it in every so in flucent

823
00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:46.679
and and a lot of the Arab
countries, and then the country we were,

824
00:56:46.679 --> 00:56:52.440
and there was another country they said
zalot and zala means rocks and you

825
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:54.280
hear it and I'm like, why
why are these people talking about rocks?

826
00:56:54.519 --> 00:56:59.639
And then you realize actually they use
it for money, and then masorry and

827
00:57:00.079 --> 00:57:04.960
the living Teine dialect it's for flus
for money. So you start picking those

828
00:57:04.960 --> 00:57:07.480
things in different countries, and then
when you're listening to them, you'll be

829
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:10.599
like, huh, that guy is
from Lebanon, or that guy is from

830
00:57:10.800 --> 00:57:15.159
Syria, or that guy is from
Yemen. You pick, you're picking those

831
00:57:15.199 --> 00:57:19.079
things. Yeah, and what can
you say about that first deployment that you

832
00:57:19.119 --> 00:57:22.039
went on as far as like now
you're essentially you're in an army spy and

833
00:57:22.079 --> 00:57:27.440
you're working at counter terrorism mission and
what what did you what did you think

834
00:57:27.440 --> 00:57:30.800
and feel about all that? So
you know, when when like after nine

835
00:57:30.800 --> 00:57:35.000
to eleven, I think anybody in
the military deployed, they felt they are

836
00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:37.800
in the top of the world,
like, you know, I'm fighting this

837
00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:42.840
war, I'm fighting, I'm catching
bad guys. I'm gonna go catch all

838
00:57:42.840 --> 00:57:45.199
of these bad guys and make sure
this doesn't happen again. And then you're

839
00:57:45.239 --> 00:57:49.760
deploy in with one of the most
unique units in the military that a lot

840
00:57:49.760 --> 00:57:55.280
of people don't know. And then
the status I was deploying in and that

841
00:57:55.360 --> 00:58:01.280
deployment, I was flying and there
isn't an older American lady sat next to

842
00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:07.159
me. And you gotta love older
American ladies because they love to talk.

843
00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:09.239
So that lady is asking me all
of these questions, and I'm like,

844
00:58:09.559 --> 00:58:14.280
is she testing me? Is she
trying to figure out my cover? Is

845
00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:16.440
she? Then You're like, Okay, you know, nice lady, Let's

846
00:58:16.440 --> 00:58:21.320
just move on. But then you
go and as you're learning from other guys

847
00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:24.679
what to do, and then I
broke equipment. I was like infants for

848
00:58:24.679 --> 00:58:30.000
breaking equipment. So I'm running the
equipment more than a lot of Like we

849
00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:31.199
had guys, obviously they're like,
you know, I'm gonna just run the

850
00:58:31.199 --> 00:58:35.440
equipment. From that, I would
take equipment out and run equipment and it's

851
00:58:35.639 --> 00:58:38.400
take it to the dust ticket trust. And honestly, it wasn't even a

852
00:58:39.199 --> 00:58:43.440
intentionally testing it. I was like
using it. So it would break and

853
00:58:43.480 --> 00:58:46.440
I would call somebody back home in
the States and say, hey, the

854
00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:50.840
equipment broke, and he's like,
again, we had guys. I used

855
00:58:50.840 --> 00:58:52.760
to think, really they looking at
the manual, but it was in their

856
00:58:52.840 --> 00:58:55.800
head. Yeah, So I was
like, again, I gotta up my

857
00:58:55.840 --> 00:59:00.039
game. I gotta these guys know
the equipment inside out. And then you

858
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:04.559
go and you're like, okay,
now we're going after bad guys who did

859
00:59:04.599 --> 00:59:08.760
this. So you really really feel
proud and happy and you're like, okay,

860
00:59:08.800 --> 00:59:14.719
I just finished this selection. And
course we started too many people and

861
00:59:14.760 --> 00:59:17.079
we ended up very few. So
you are on top of the world now

862
00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:23.119
and you're like, then two three
deployments after they get hit upside your head

863
00:59:23.360 --> 00:59:28.159
to realize I'm not invisible. I
need to come back to the ground.

864
00:59:28.159 --> 00:59:32.400
You cannot be in the sky.
And then in two thousand and three,

865
00:59:32.440 --> 00:59:37.760
of course Iraq happens. Were you
over in the country, I mean looking

866
00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:42.679
for Saddam and his boys. So
after that deployment, the first deployment,

867
00:59:43.719 --> 00:59:50.000
I came back. I came back, I wanted to say. A month

868
00:59:50.079 --> 00:59:52.199
after I came back, they were
like, okay, we need the guys

869
00:59:52.199 --> 00:59:53.440
to go to a rock and I
was like, yeah, send me,

870
00:59:53.920 --> 01:00:00.000
I'm going. So I was in
one of the so we had some guys

871
01:00:00.119 --> 01:00:04.039
in the invasion from the unit.
And then after that I was the first

872
01:00:04.079 --> 01:00:10.320
deployment. After that it was me
and four other people and we were in

873
01:00:12.079 --> 01:00:16.480
the group looking for Satan. We
were attached to Delta. We stayed in

874
01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:22.320
Baghdad for a bit. I get
to see the lions that Saddam's kids had

875
01:00:22.360 --> 01:00:25.239
in their house, like, why
do you faking have lines in the house.

876
01:00:25.800 --> 01:00:30.559
And then obviously when Saddam's sons ran
away, they left the lines with

877
01:00:30.599 --> 01:00:32.519
new food. I'm like, now, lions are hungry in the kids.

878
01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:38.079
So we stayed in one of those
houses. And then my first day in

879
01:00:38.199 --> 01:00:45.760
country in Iraka ended up me and
another guy, you know him Robbie.

880
01:00:45.480 --> 01:00:49.760
He and I went out in a
mission and I think in that mission we

881
01:00:50.719 --> 01:00:54.119
hit maybe ten to fifteen houses,
and obviously they were like night missions.

882
01:00:54.199 --> 01:01:00.159
You out in the evening, and
there was this older guy with us in

883
01:01:00.199 --> 01:01:05.119
that and the vehicle in the panther
and and I'm like, man, this

884
01:01:05.159 --> 01:01:09.440
old sergeant major ways fucking out with
us. And I was like again,

885
01:01:09.639 --> 01:01:13.000
I was like, I think thirty
years old, and I'm like, you

886
01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:16.360
know, I'm in shape. So
we go out and then Robbie comes to

887
01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:19.199
me and he's like, hey,
man, you might want to be careful

888
01:01:19.239 --> 01:01:22.000
when you talk to this old guy. He's a general I'm like, why

889
01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:27.119
the fuck the general going out with
us in a mission. I'm like,

890
01:01:27.199 --> 01:01:30.559
oh, whatever, man. Then
we go back. I think I think

891
01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:34.280
we hit like maybe ten houses at
that time. Then when we go back,

892
01:01:35.679 --> 01:01:40.039
General stamp My Crystal stands in front
of everybody, takes his flag vest

893
01:01:40.079 --> 01:01:44.679
off. He was a one star
at that time. He was about to

894
01:01:44.719 --> 01:01:46.760
be the jays a commander, and
he talks to everywhere. I'm like,

895
01:01:47.519 --> 01:01:51.519
Robbie, right, the guy is
a general and I was talking to him

896
01:01:51.559 --> 01:01:57.039
like he's my buddy. But then
you then the Delta guys honestly were awesome.

897
01:01:57.599 --> 01:02:00.480
After four or five missions with them, they build that trust and be

898
01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:02.239
like, hey man, we're firing
out in the bag. Do you want

899
01:02:02.239 --> 01:02:09.039
to come with us and fire some
rounds down range? So I was there

900
01:02:09.039 --> 01:02:14.199
for about three months. I was
in Bagdad for a bit. Then we

901
01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:17.559
went to Too Crate. From listening
to a lot of the chatters and from

902
01:02:17.599 --> 01:02:22.199
being involved in interrogations, I was
like, soddam, gotta be into create.

903
01:02:22.320 --> 01:02:27.719
He can't be anywhere else right.
Then me and another guy went to

904
01:02:27.760 --> 01:02:32.760
to Cryt. Then Robbie and another
person went to Moso and we had an

905
01:02:32.760 --> 01:02:36.960
analyst. I think he went to
Moso with the other tw guys because he

906
01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:39.360
didn't come with us, and then
we ended up into CRT. I think

907
01:02:39.719 --> 01:02:45.719
I came back a week or two
weeks before they called so Donald, I

908
01:02:45.760 --> 01:02:49.360
was like, what the fuckuld say? So you were operating some of the

909
01:02:49.719 --> 01:02:52.880
technology to try to find him,
and the Delta guys were actioning the targets

910
01:02:52.880 --> 01:02:57.039
that you were able to find.
We were doing so, we were doing

911
01:02:57.519 --> 01:02:59.480
We were doing a lot of different
things, honestly. So we were doing

912
01:02:59.480 --> 01:03:04.840
technology, we were doing some integrations. We had in the task force.

913
01:03:04.920 --> 01:03:07.920
We had other human intelligence attached to
us, whether OGA or DII. I

914
01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:12.599
mean we had and everybody was coming
with Hey, there is a source said,

915
01:03:13.079 --> 01:03:16.840
so dam goes to this house every
Friday morning to sit with this family,

916
01:03:16.920 --> 01:03:21.679
and we would go hit the house. We would go stage overnight somewhere

917
01:03:21.760 --> 01:03:23.800
to hit the house at three o'clock
in the morning in Saddama's not there.

918
01:03:24.960 --> 01:03:29.519
But it was singing intelligence, human
intelligence, it was all kinds of it

919
01:03:29.559 --> 01:03:34.360
was integations, everything he can think
of. All the resources were going against

920
01:03:34.400 --> 01:03:39.880
that trying to find the guy.
And then me and another guy were going

921
01:03:39.920 --> 01:03:43.679
out. So it was four of
us, four operators and one analyst.

922
01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:49.320
The four operators, me and another
guy who was half Libernese half Irish American.

923
01:03:50.239 --> 01:03:52.400
He and I used to go out
a lot with the Delta, so

924
01:03:52.519 --> 01:03:55.639
we were during the day we would
do run our equipment, do everything.

925
01:03:55.679 --> 01:03:59.679
Then in the evening we would go
out with them with the Delta guys and

926
01:03:59.719 --> 01:04:03.599
heads. The other guy was like
fast open on top of some houses with

927
01:04:03.679 --> 01:04:06.920
them. I was going out with
them in different locations, but we were

928
01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:14.400
doing both the technical stuff and just
going out and hits as well. During

929
01:04:14.639 --> 01:04:17.519
I know this is you know,
so we've been in these wars for about

930
01:04:17.559 --> 01:04:21.519
two years two and a half years. Now for you guys, is the

931
01:04:21.599 --> 01:04:27.199
technology changing quite a bit? Is
it? Like? Cause I know that

932
01:04:27.199 --> 01:04:31.039
there were significant changes over time,
but are you guys already starting to see

933
01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:38.360
that where where these contractors with people
like where they're like, oh, like

934
01:04:38.440 --> 01:04:41.960
are you sending requirements back like we
need something that does this or whatever.

935
01:04:42.320 --> 01:04:46.639
Absolutely, we were actually tracking and
it was really interesting because what we're seeing

936
01:04:47.039 --> 01:04:51.599
as technology changes. We had guys
who were saying back home is like,

937
01:04:51.679 --> 01:04:55.800
hey man, now these guys were
using push to talk. I think they're

938
01:04:55.800 --> 01:04:59.559
going to use cell phones. But
Rock didn't have cell phones at the time,

939
01:04:59.599 --> 01:05:03.039
so they had high power cordless phones. But these cordless phones with like

940
01:05:03.039 --> 01:05:08.800
a big antenna can go like one
hundred k one hundred kilometer. Then they

941
01:05:08.800 --> 01:05:11.320
were like, okay, they're building
the GSM network in a rock, so

942
01:05:11.679 --> 01:05:15.480
eventually these guys would use that.
So there were like engineers, there were

943
01:05:15.519 --> 01:05:19.519
guys in the government, whether military
or non military. They were thinking ahead,

944
01:05:19.840 --> 01:05:24.920
which I think one of the best
things that nine eleven was a horrible

945
01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:28.840
thing, but it brought some good
things too, because it made us get

946
01:05:28.840 --> 01:05:33.039
advanced with technology, made us think
ahead. It made us predict where we

947
01:05:33.079 --> 01:05:35.920
talked about earlier. Hey, do
you guys need Arabic No, we didn't

948
01:05:35.920 --> 01:05:41.639
need Arabic recreation. Nobody was predicting
ahead. Nine to eleven made people like

949
01:05:41.719 --> 01:05:45.239
think, Okay, the bad guys
what they're going to use next, Let's

950
01:05:45.239 --> 01:05:46.880
be ahead of them. And I
think we were ahead of them for a

951
01:05:46.920 --> 01:05:56.400
bit. Unfortunately, I think these
guys start catching on and then they were

952
01:05:56.400 --> 01:06:00.559
like, Okay, well we get
caught through this technology. Let's go back

953
01:06:00.679 --> 01:06:05.000
to the old technology. Yeah,
people can find us through smartphones because smartphones.

954
01:06:05.320 --> 01:06:10.880
Back then there was no smartphones,
but now I'm assuming there are guys

955
01:06:10.880 --> 01:06:14.599
who are like, I'm gonna use
this old Nulkia right, uh, one

956
01:06:14.679 --> 01:06:18.559
eleven or ten eleven phone that I
bought for ten dollars that doesn't have emails,

957
01:06:18.559 --> 01:06:21.800
doesn't have GPS, doesn't have these, doesn't have so it goes back

958
01:06:21.800 --> 01:06:26.360
and forth. Yeah, but yeah, we were trying to learn. It

959
01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:31.920
was it was really interesting, like
watching both Iraq and Afghanistan the enemy adapt

960
01:06:32.199 --> 01:06:38.800
to American techniques, and you know, sometimes they'd get it right. You

961
01:06:38.840 --> 01:06:41.880
know, they'd be like because if
they didn't understand like ISR platforms, they

962
01:06:41.960 --> 01:06:44.920
might say, oh, well,
we're getting bombed because we're wearing metal.

963
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:48.119
They can they can sense the metal. But then with like with phones,

964
01:06:48.559 --> 01:06:53.639
you know, when they start plugging
charms in and and things like that,

965
01:06:53.719 --> 01:06:59.039
it's, you know, it's really
fascinating how just how quickly some of the

966
01:06:59.119 --> 01:07:00.639
things they picked up on. Yeah. Absolutely, the other thing too,

967
01:07:03.039 --> 01:07:09.280
it's for some reason during that at
that time, and people might go and

968
01:07:09.280 --> 01:07:11.400
say, well, you're talking about
these things now, Well, back then

969
01:07:12.760 --> 01:07:15.320
nobody knew like exactly how we were
doing it. But you had the TTPs,

970
01:07:15.679 --> 01:07:18.320
but you had like you know,
Congressman or people like in TV or

971
01:07:18.360 --> 01:07:20.840
whatever, going and saying, whoa, this is how we found that.

972
01:07:21.199 --> 01:07:25.239
Let me tell you exactly, stop
by stop how we found the guy.

973
01:07:25.400 --> 01:07:29.719
And then all of a sudden,
these comms will drop and they're like,

974
01:07:29.760 --> 01:07:35.039
who the fuck just talked? Then
we start seeing guys mixing the phones,

975
01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:43.559
bad guys just mixing phones. In
terrorist training camps, I think we didn't

976
01:07:43.599 --> 01:07:46.400
have any. I think it used
to have like this box. Everybody drops

977
01:07:46.400 --> 01:07:49.880
his phone going in, they go
do the training, they come up,

978
01:07:50.000 --> 01:07:55.280
everybody grabs a phone and just move
on. So you could not find okay,

979
01:07:55.320 --> 01:07:59.000
you know what like now, I
used to listen to Jack on this

980
01:07:59.119 --> 01:08:01.639
number that doesn't sound like, yeah, who's this guy? Who's this guy?

981
01:08:02.119 --> 01:08:05.840
And then that just keeps you going
confused, and then you realize after

982
01:08:06.280 --> 01:08:12.800
two three weeks, oh it's Dave, and then two days after it's not

983
01:08:12.840 --> 01:08:16.439
Dave anymore. Oh it's Adam.
So it was like who's going to be

984
01:08:16.479 --> 01:08:21.479
smarter than who? So the combination
between human that's why I believe like we

985
01:08:21.520 --> 01:08:27.000
need all the ends, having human
guys, having singing guys. So you

986
01:08:27.039 --> 01:08:29.239
have human guys on the ground,
they say, you know what, this

987
01:08:29.359 --> 01:08:32.119
guy swap phones and this is how
do you do it? And then you

988
01:08:32.119 --> 01:08:36.880
start realizing, Okay, well if
I have the ten phones, then I

989
01:08:36.920 --> 01:08:41.039
can do this and I can sift
through it and I can do processive elimination

990
01:08:41.920 --> 01:08:50.880
and then without giving away any TTPs. But you might change your phone,

991
01:08:50.880 --> 01:08:55.359
but your entire family is not going
to change their phones. And I'll find

992
01:08:55.399 --> 01:09:00.680
you somewhere else. I'll find you
through your girlfriend. Yeah, they they

993
01:09:00.720 --> 01:09:03.319
got savvy though. It's interesting.
I remember one guy, would you know,

994
01:09:03.439 --> 01:09:08.640
high value target would like anytime he
wanted to make a call, he'd

995
01:09:08.640 --> 01:09:13.479
get on like his motorcycle drive you
know, ride someplace standing from the same

996
01:09:13.520 --> 01:09:17.119
compound or around the same compound,
make his calls. So so from a

997
01:09:17.159 --> 01:09:21.239
second perspective, that guy lives in
that that guy lives in that compound.

998
01:09:21.439 --> 01:09:25.680
You know. You know what what's
really dangerous is when we and I used

999
01:09:25.680 --> 01:09:28.239
to see this a lot, when
we think was smarter than everybody else.

1000
01:09:28.279 --> 01:09:30.880
Yeah, when you think you are
the smartest guy in the room, you

1001
01:09:30.960 --> 01:09:32.640
are the dumbest guy in the room. Yeah. So we used to think

1002
01:09:32.720 --> 01:09:38.560
these guys are not sophisticated, they're
not smart. Then I mean we have

1003
01:09:39.640 --> 01:09:42.439
these guys were like in their emails. They used to not send emails.

1004
01:09:42.439 --> 01:09:45.800
They just put the email in the
draft box. And guess what. We

1005
01:09:45.920 --> 01:09:51.119
have general officers after that when they
have mistress, they do in that.

1006
01:09:51.520 --> 01:09:55.399
So they learned. Actually our own
guy has learned from the bad guys.

1007
01:09:55.880 --> 01:10:00.239
How see. And it's an this
is public record. But they we were

1008
01:10:00.239 --> 01:10:03.079
always looking at because these guys are
not dumb. They are like, Okay,

1009
01:10:03.399 --> 01:10:08.960
so and so just got killed.
Let's do an ar And maybe they

1010
01:10:09.000 --> 01:10:11.760
don't call it a or they call
it something else, but they go through

1011
01:10:11.760 --> 01:10:15.800
the same thing in process and they're
like, you know what they found Jack,

1012
01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:19.399
because Jack knows Dave, and Dave
lives in this area and he wont

1013
01:10:19.520 --> 01:10:24.840
let's change and they'll change. And
so we have to be step ahead.

1014
01:10:25.359 --> 01:10:30.399
And the only way we can be
step ahead if we have the cooperation and

1015
01:10:30.439 --> 01:10:35.640
the collaboration of the different inns.
Unfortunately, I feel we were on a

1016
01:10:35.680 --> 01:10:40.760
honeymoon after a nine to eleven where
the military and the CIA and the FBI

1017
01:10:40.800 --> 01:10:44.199
and the Treasury, everybody worked well
together and we were all like looking out

1018
01:10:44.239 --> 01:10:47.079
for each other. And if I
saw you downrange, I didn't care what

1019
01:10:48.000 --> 01:10:51.359
patchy having your shoulder, I didn't
care if you are green, black or

1020
01:10:51.399 --> 01:10:56.439
white. I didn't care about anything. I think towards the end of my

1021
01:10:56.520 --> 01:11:01.720
career, I start saying back of
man, I'm cia knows building exactly.

1022
01:11:01.880 --> 01:11:04.640
So everybody went back to, hey, I'm better than you know. I'm

1023
01:11:04.680 --> 01:11:09.279
better than you know. I'm going
to keep these are more secret than your

1024
01:11:09.800 --> 01:11:14.640
exactly exactly exactly. We're not going
to share information. You talked about this

1025
01:11:14.680 --> 01:11:18.640
in your book where people not communicating
well enough, which, by the way,

1026
01:11:18.720 --> 01:11:24.359
I docommend you for your book,
and how you you're trying to show

1027
01:11:24.399 --> 01:11:29.039
people how to learn from again,
we did this, we did it this

1028
01:11:29.079 --> 01:11:31.319
way. We can learn that how
to do it differently. So all of

1029
01:11:31.359 --> 01:11:38.279
these things is like I think,
hopefully we don't go through another big event

1030
01:11:38.720 --> 01:11:43.960
to bring us back together. I
think we are. We should reconsider how

1031
01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:47.079
we do in business and just start
sharing more information. You know. On

1032
01:11:47.119 --> 01:11:51.000
that note, you know, in
addition to the technological piece, I'd really

1033
01:11:51.039 --> 01:11:54.319
like to hear you talk a little
bit about the people, because you've read

1034
01:11:54.359 --> 01:11:57.239
about that in your in your book, a bit about the people in this

1035
01:11:57.359 --> 01:12:00.680
unit, the type of people who
end up there, what it's like working

1036
01:12:00.720 --> 01:12:02.880
with some of these guys where I
mean they sound like very colorful characters.

1037
01:12:02.920 --> 01:12:10.840
Actually, so yes, honestly,
and as you guys know this, in

1038
01:12:10.880 --> 01:12:15.279
the special operation command or in the
military in general, your most important asset

1039
01:12:15.319 --> 01:12:17.760
that I mean it, or the
people. You could have the best equipment

1040
01:12:17.760 --> 01:12:21.039
on the planet. You can have
the best weapons on the planet if you

1041
01:12:21.079 --> 01:12:28.199
don't have the right people. And
sadly, I feel there are some like

1042
01:12:29.479 --> 01:12:32.159
higher commander they say this, but
they don't really believe it, but they

1043
01:12:32.159 --> 01:12:36.079
say they keep saying it. It
breathes extremely well, well, if he's

1044
01:12:36.079 --> 01:12:40.640
saying it, maybe he should behave
differently, maybe you should give more.

1045
01:12:41.319 --> 01:12:46.960
Having lower enlisted guys a percentage of
lower enlisted guys on food stamps is extremely

1046
01:12:47.039 --> 01:12:51.960
unacceptable. You shouldn't have guys fighting
for you worrying about how they're gonna feed

1047
01:12:53.000 --> 01:12:58.760
their families, but to go to
the unit. So for some reason,

1048
01:12:58.800 --> 01:13:00.439
I think that the way how they
do the selection process, and I give

1049
01:13:01.039 --> 01:13:05.920
the psych the psychologist a lot of
credit because I think the psychological profile and

1050
01:13:06.000 --> 01:13:12.079
they do to bring guys in somehow
it brings just the right guys to the

1051
01:13:12.279 --> 01:13:16.880
environment. And I'm I'm not sure
what psychological profile they do that, but

1052
01:13:16.920 --> 01:13:19.920
we had guys that, like I
said when I went through the course.

1053
01:13:20.800 --> 01:13:24.279
So in the first in the beginning
of the course, they have guys go

1054
01:13:24.359 --> 01:13:29.039
and I think at the beginning of
the end of the first week, so

1055
01:13:29.079 --> 01:13:32.640
they give you a week to do
a PowerPoint presentation as an intro about yourself.

1056
01:13:33.640 --> 01:13:36.079
And again I'm like, you know, I'm a guy who was born

1057
01:13:36.159 --> 01:13:41.720
in Egypt, came to the US
not speaking English, five hundred dollars borrowed,

1058
01:13:42.159 --> 01:13:45.279
I got to be a fucking rock
store. Then you go and you

1059
01:13:45.359 --> 01:13:50.000
sit, and you go through and
I think I was like towards the end

1060
01:13:50.279 --> 01:13:55.640
of the briefings and the first guy
goes there and he's like, I was

1061
01:13:55.680 --> 01:14:00.760
the first guy that got his picture
on a milk quarter because he was kidnapped,

1062
01:14:01.079 --> 01:14:05.039
because his father kidnapped him and took
him out of country, took him

1063
01:14:05.039 --> 01:14:09.640
to the Middle East, and his
mom was looking for him. So his

1064
01:14:09.720 --> 01:14:13.520
mom thought, how do I find
him? And she got this idea and

1065
01:14:13.520 --> 01:14:15.520
she's like, I'm gonna, you
know, I'm gonna put his name and

1066
01:14:15.600 --> 01:14:17.920
picture on a milk courting. So
he goes there and he say this.

1067
01:14:17.960 --> 01:14:21.039
And he grew up in the Middle
East and his grandmother raised him and then

1068
01:14:21.079 --> 01:14:25.239
he went to live in Libya for
a bit and he said there and I

1069
01:14:25.279 --> 01:14:29.720
was like, I'm nobody. And
then second guy goes and he's like,

1070
01:14:30.720 --> 01:14:35.119
I was the mayor of my town
for one day during a revolution. He

1071
01:14:35.159 --> 01:14:41.479
came from the Eastern Bloc, and
I'm like, okay. Then another guy

1072
01:14:41.560 --> 01:14:45.199
goes and he's like, oh,
I grew up in South America. This

1073
01:14:45.279 --> 01:14:46.199
is a white guy. He's like, I grew up in South America.

1074
01:14:46.199 --> 01:14:49.640
I speak Portuguese, Spanish, French, and I'm from Alaska and I'm gonna

1075
01:14:49.680 --> 01:14:56.039
do like you know. I go
like, he does this snowfishing, and

1076
01:14:56.079 --> 01:14:59.680
I'm like, dude, I'm gonna
go speak after all of these guys.

1077
01:15:00.039 --> 01:15:02.119
Then a girl goes and she's like, I want to past point and I'm

1078
01:15:02.119 --> 01:15:05.800
a world class swimmer and I can
swim and run better than all of you

1079
01:15:05.880 --> 01:15:10.560
guys. I'm smarter than all of
you. And I'm like, so you

1080
01:15:10.640 --> 01:15:13.319
see those things. And then we
have a guy. He goes and he's

1081
01:15:13.359 --> 01:15:17.000
like, I lost my eye in
training. I have one eye, and

1082
01:15:17.039 --> 01:15:20.000
they didn't take me out of the
army because I fought the army. The

1083
01:15:20.119 --> 01:15:26.359
army wanted to kick him out to
medically bore them and he fights. Yeah,

1084
01:15:26.760 --> 01:15:32.079
ranger qualified going through the course,
did very well in selection with one

1085
01:15:32.079 --> 01:15:36.880
eye, and he like Adam,
and you complain about you being fucking short,

1086
01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:42.520
so you have nothing on those guys. So and then these guys,

1087
01:15:42.560 --> 01:15:44.720
like I said, they humble the
fuck out of you. Males and females.

1088
01:15:45.119 --> 01:15:48.880
We have one she went like cross
country skiing in Europe and she rode

1089
01:15:48.920 --> 01:15:54.920
her bike all over Europe and she's
a warrant officer. So you look at

1090
01:15:54.960 --> 01:15:58.680
the group of people you are with
and you're like, Okay, I really

1091
01:15:58.680 --> 01:16:01.199
need to work harder. So it
encourages you to work harder. And then

1092
01:16:01.239 --> 01:16:04.439
when you deploy with these guys,
you realize, okay, this guy speaks

1093
01:16:04.439 --> 01:16:10.520
five languages, Adam, your native
Arabic speak are good for you and you

1094
01:16:10.560 --> 01:16:15.439
can barely speak English. Great.
So really working with them and deploying with

1095
01:16:15.479 --> 01:16:20.119
them. And then you have the
guys who can build computers in their own

1096
01:16:20.159 --> 01:16:24.239
they sit in the basement. And
then a lot of people think, well,

1097
01:16:24.279 --> 01:16:27.479
he's just a nerd. I'm like, yeah, that nerd runs his

1098
01:16:27.560 --> 01:16:32.640
two miles and eleven plus minutes.
That nerd can weight lift more than you,

1099
01:16:33.239 --> 01:16:36.439
and that nerd looks like a really
really nice cool guy, but he

1100
01:16:36.479 --> 01:16:40.960
can punch the fuck out of you
and kill you. Or the guy I

1101
01:16:40.960 --> 01:16:43.600
said in the book, he looks
like Elton John. He went to Ranger

1102
01:16:43.680 --> 01:16:47.439
School and he was forty and he
passed Rangers School. I'm like, so

1103
01:16:47.520 --> 01:16:49.399
you see all of these things and
you're like, Okay, well, this

1104
01:16:49.840 --> 01:16:54.920
unit has made out of very unique
characters, and I was lucky, unfortunate

1105
01:16:55.000 --> 01:16:58.720
to be one of those hopefully unique. Do you find because it's like these

1106
01:16:58.760 --> 01:17:01.800
sounds like very like intell and driven
motivated people, Like do you find that

1107
01:17:01.840 --> 01:17:06.000
they have these sort of like eccentric
hobbies and things like this that they yes,

1108
01:17:08.920 --> 01:17:11.840
you're like the guy with the guy
with the one eye for example.

1109
01:17:11.880 --> 01:17:15.199
He when we during the course,
they'll tell you, like, you know,

1110
01:17:16.960 --> 01:17:21.479
I don't want to get into any
like sources and methods, but let's

1111
01:17:21.479 --> 01:17:26.920
say they tell you, like,
build do a concealment device something to conceal

1112
01:17:27.000 --> 01:17:30.000
something in. So I'll go buy
a box of chocolate and I'll unseal it

1113
01:17:30.079 --> 01:17:35.479
and put things in. He would
build a table and he'll fucking and he

1114
01:17:35.560 --> 01:17:41.239
has all the Carpentin stuff and he'll
build the table and he'll have the table

1115
01:17:41.279 --> 01:17:45.680
delivered to your house and he'll send
you like step by step how to get

1116
01:17:45.680 --> 01:17:47.399
your things out of the table.
And I'm like that guy just built.

1117
01:17:51.960 --> 01:17:55.039
Like I said, you have guys
who's like, hey man, I'm just

1118
01:17:55.079 --> 01:18:00.239
gonna take the applation trail all the
way for like a month and he like

1119
01:18:00.520 --> 01:18:03.079
that guy just walked for a month. And what do I have on these

1120
01:18:03.079 --> 01:18:06.079
guys? So those are the guys. Those are the hobbies. And you're

1121
01:18:06.119 --> 01:18:09.560
like, hey, Adam, what
do you do? I like to read.

1122
01:18:10.840 --> 01:18:15.520
I'm okay, good for you.
Yeah, but yeah, but they

1123
01:18:15.600 --> 01:18:19.119
all they all had and honestly,
those things help in the mission. And

1124
01:18:19.159 --> 01:18:23.439
those are the things that they look
at you and look for for selection.

1125
01:18:24.000 --> 01:18:27.279
So if you're gonna deploy and you're
gonna and you're saying, hey, you're

1126
01:18:27.319 --> 01:18:32.159
a carpenter, you're gotta be able
to do carpenterin shit, Yeah for me.

1127
01:18:32.279 --> 01:18:35.000
If I'm going and I'm saying like
I can go and say, hey,

1128
01:18:35.000 --> 01:18:39.359
guys, I'm a private security guy. Okay, mister five to one

1129
01:18:39.399 --> 01:18:42.199
hundred and twenty five pounds, you
can to be a private security guy.

1130
01:18:42.199 --> 01:18:45.359
But I can be a driver.
I can be a guy who blends in.

1131
01:18:45.159 --> 01:18:49.199
I'm very comfortable with going to any
environment I can go to. Like

1132
01:18:49.319 --> 01:18:54.520
during training, I went to areas
where this is after nine to eleven,

1133
01:18:55.199 --> 01:18:59.159
and as an Arab looking guy,
you go into a hotel telling that lady

1134
01:18:59.199 --> 01:19:03.039
working in the hotel, I need
the layout of the hotel, and I

1135
01:19:03.039 --> 01:19:08.239
need every exit, I need every
camera, I need everything because I'm a

1136
01:19:08.239 --> 01:19:12.880
case in the hotel. And it
takes a talent and it takes that very

1137
01:19:12.880 --> 01:19:17.079
friendly, comfortable environment to make her
feel comfortable to give you the information and

1138
01:19:18.439 --> 01:19:24.680
delated it. She gave me actually
everything I asked about. Speaking of that,

1139
01:19:24.760 --> 01:19:28.199
I mean another thing around this timeframe, I want to ask you,

1140
01:19:28.359 --> 01:19:31.439
I we're probably shooting forward a couple
of years from Iraq and Saddam, but

1141
01:19:31.880 --> 01:19:38.159
being deployed to the Levant during that
during the two thousands, what can you

1142
01:19:38.159 --> 01:19:43.479
tell us about that? So that
was after Iraq, right, So one

1143
01:19:43.479 --> 01:19:45.560
of the things to during Iraq,
what I talked about two in the book

1144
01:19:45.760 --> 01:19:53.079
is Iraq was the cool things for
the bad guys, the cool place for

1145
01:19:53.119 --> 01:19:56.960
the bad guys to go. So
when we were in Iraq starting to noticing,

1146
01:19:57.279 --> 01:20:00.520
like I start, I was helping
with a lot of interg start seeing

1147
01:20:00.520 --> 01:20:04.159
people from Morocco coming all the way
from Rock, coming all the way from

1148
01:20:04.159 --> 01:20:09.880
Mali through North Africa, all the
way to Somalia, crossing to Yemen,

1149
01:20:10.399 --> 01:20:13.840
from Yemen to Saudi making it all
the way to Rock. Then we start

1150
01:20:13.920 --> 01:20:19.359
seeing a lot of this is during
the beginning of what's known now as Isis.

1151
01:20:20.960 --> 01:20:24.439
Back then it used to be on
no Surt front. This is where

1152
01:20:24.439 --> 01:20:29.319
it started. Uh. We start
seeing all of these characters coming from everywhere,

1153
01:20:29.600 --> 01:20:32.000
coming from Kashna, Yep, coming
from Bosnia. And he like,

1154
01:20:32.079 --> 01:20:35.119
I was in Bosnia a few years
before, and I used to call it.

1155
01:20:35.199 --> 01:20:39.800
You know, those are Muslim lights. They don't know they think Ramadanna's

1156
01:20:39.840 --> 01:20:42.920
three months. They didn't know anything
about anything, and all of a sudden

1157
01:20:42.880 --> 01:20:47.960
they're going to fight, right,
so they got they got turns into extremists

1158
01:20:48.000 --> 01:20:51.680
because of all of this. Then
we start seeing and we're like, how

1159
01:20:51.720 --> 01:20:57.479
are these people coming to Iraq?
They coming from Africa to where to hear?

1160
01:20:58.079 --> 01:21:01.479
Then we started deploying. We started
deploying people. Like my Crystal said,

1161
01:21:01.479 --> 01:21:04.239
it takes a network to catch a
network or to defeat a network,

1162
01:21:04.479 --> 01:21:09.880
So we started deploying people to West
Africa, to East Africa to the Levant.

1163
01:21:11.079 --> 01:21:15.359
Then I was one of the first
guys from my squadron to deploy.

1164
01:21:15.439 --> 01:21:19.039
I was the first one to deploy
to the Levant and at that time,

1165
01:21:20.239 --> 01:21:27.319
I go there and the chief of
station my first day there, he's like,

1166
01:21:28.039 --> 01:21:30.079
initially, so to go back the
unit said, hey man, the

1167
01:21:30.119 --> 01:21:33.840
agency wanted some of you guys.
So I'm going thinking, you know,

1168
01:21:33.960 --> 01:21:36.960
the agency asked for me, or
they asked for us and they sent me.

1169
01:21:39.199 --> 01:21:45.560
I'm going there to a friendly environment. So I go there. In

1170
01:21:45.680 --> 01:21:49.000
my second day, the chief gets
me and this other guy from the other

1171
01:21:49.039 --> 01:21:53.079
side of our unit and he's like, hey man, I've never asked for

1172
01:21:53.119 --> 01:21:57.079
you. I don't need you here. I have my own people. You

1173
01:21:57.159 --> 01:22:00.000
have a month to prove why you
should be here or I'm sending you.

1174
01:22:00.680 --> 01:22:04.880
So I'm like, holy shit,
that's wild. I just got a warning.

1175
01:22:05.800 --> 01:22:10.720
If I don't prove myself within a
month, I'm gonna go back to

1176
01:22:10.720 --> 01:22:15.199
my unit with my tail between my
legs and saying hey guys, I got

1177
01:22:15.199 --> 01:22:18.119
fucking kicked out of the country.
But like I said, I went thinking,

1178
01:22:18.399 --> 01:22:21.079
this is a friendly around. These
guys are they want they want me?

1179
01:22:23.319 --> 01:22:27.800
So I was like, I gotta
fucking work my ass off. So

1180
01:22:27.880 --> 01:22:35.479
I start. This was, by
the way, it was about seven eight

1181
01:22:35.520 --> 01:22:41.000
months after I was shot. So
here I am. I'm still recovering from

1182
01:22:41.000 --> 01:22:44.840
a gunshot. One dey sending me
there to like, hey, this is

1183
01:22:44.880 --> 01:22:49.319
a good place for you to recover. It's a decent, friendly environment and

1184
01:22:49.359 --> 01:22:54.279
the agency will be nice to you. When I go there, and it's

1185
01:22:54.319 --> 01:22:59.600
not. And then this is one
of the extremely high threat SEEI places where

1186
01:23:00.279 --> 01:23:02.960
you have surveillance left and right,
you have surveillance most likely from the day

1187
01:23:03.039 --> 01:23:08.119
arrived. I walked to the embassy
the first day with my diplomatic passport and

1188
01:23:08.159 --> 01:23:11.199
the marine guard is like, did
you find this in the street because I

1189
01:23:11.239 --> 01:23:14.000
looked like a local, and I'm
like, this is not a friendly place,

1190
01:23:14.079 --> 01:23:16.640
man. So nothing was going my
way. So I was like,

1191
01:23:16.640 --> 01:23:23.359
well, I gotta really work hard. I start developing like a target,

1192
01:23:24.199 --> 01:23:28.039
start developing a target list, start
doing things in the embassy outside of the

1193
01:23:28.079 --> 01:23:31.079
embassy. After a month, when
it was supposed to go back to the

1194
01:23:31.159 --> 01:23:36.079
chief to brief him, I go, me and this other guy from the

1195
01:23:36.199 --> 01:23:41.920
organization but from the other side,
and the other guy's like, hey man,

1196
01:23:42.000 --> 01:23:45.000
we got only thirty minutes with the
chief, you'd go first because it's

1197
01:23:45.039 --> 01:23:48.800
going to take you five minutes.
Then I'll breathe that's all right, sorry,

1198
01:23:48.880 --> 01:23:56.159
go. So I started briefing the
guy and my five minutes became twenty

1199
01:23:56.199 --> 01:24:00.000
five minutes, so he gets only
five minutes the other guy after I finish

1200
01:24:00.159 --> 01:24:02.600
the twenty five minutes. The reason
it was twenty five minutes because the chief

1201
01:24:02.680 --> 01:24:05.720
kept asking how did you get this? How did you get that? Who

1202
01:24:05.720 --> 01:24:10.399
else is in the network, How
can we defeat this, how can we

1203
01:24:10.840 --> 01:24:14.159
prosecute that? How did you really
do this? And I was like what.

1204
01:24:14.239 --> 01:24:15.159
Actually, I went in the street
and I pretend like I'm a travel

1205
01:24:15.199 --> 01:24:17.760
agency. Literally, I was like, hey, I man, I work

1206
01:24:17.800 --> 01:24:21.960
for a travel agency from Egypt,
and I need to get to this location

1207
01:24:23.119 --> 01:24:26.439
one of the places we're looking for. What we're looking for guys coming through

1208
01:24:28.399 --> 01:24:33.359
coming through that country, going to
Iraq, and these guys were using very

1209
01:24:33.359 --> 01:24:38.960
specific travel agencies in that country.
And literally I would go in the street

1210
01:24:38.960 --> 01:24:40.920
and say, hey, man,
I'm looking for this. Literally, I

1211
01:24:41.000 --> 01:24:45.359
was like asked, because again you're
asking the kebab guy. I'm asking the

1212
01:24:45.399 --> 01:24:47.159
kebab yeah, Or I take a
taxi. I'm like, hey, can

1213
01:24:47.199 --> 01:24:51.399
you take me to this location.
Yeah, because again I'm not I blended

1214
01:24:51.439 --> 01:24:55.239
in. I looked like a native. I mean I am a native,

1215
01:24:55.279 --> 01:24:58.359
and I looked like a guy who's
local. So after the month, when

1216
01:24:58.399 --> 01:25:00.640
I showed the chief all of these
things, and his like, what else

1217
01:25:00.680 --> 01:25:03.720
can you do? Because he did
have requirements, he could not have anybody

1218
01:25:03.760 --> 01:25:08.560
doing it. So we finish and
he sends a cable. He's like,

1219
01:25:08.640 --> 01:25:13.319
I need two of these guys,
not one. So they moved a They

1220
01:25:13.560 --> 01:25:17.880
actually ended up adding one more guy
from my squadron. Then a month after,

1221
01:25:19.560 --> 01:25:26.760
I'm walking to the embassy in the
morning. Oh I lived really near

1222
01:25:26.800 --> 01:25:29.560
there. So the door I walked
through was like a door for people,

1223
01:25:29.600 --> 01:25:32.760
and there is another gate for vehicles. So I walked in. I worked

1224
01:25:32.800 --> 01:25:35.640
on the third floor. By the
time I made it to the third floor,

1225
01:25:35.840 --> 01:25:40.760
I hear an explosion. So we
had a civilian engineer in the office

1226
01:25:40.760 --> 01:25:43.600
I was working in. The guy
goes down on his knees, pulled out

1227
01:25:43.600 --> 01:25:45.960
his rosary, and he started praying
and he's like, please God, make

1228
01:25:45.039 --> 01:25:48.520
this a drill. The guy did
what he knew what to do, and

1229
01:25:48.560 --> 01:25:51.560
I was like, hey, dude, this is not fucking drill. This

1230
01:25:51.600 --> 01:25:59.399
is an explosion for real, and
then we hear gunfires and where I'm at

1231
01:25:59.520 --> 01:26:04.520
there is av so we initially your
training kicks in, so we're like,

1232
01:26:04.520 --> 01:26:08.880
okay, it's about four five of
us here. Close the vault, call

1233
01:26:09.000 --> 01:26:12.680
and call home, say hey,
we might be going through destruction plan.

1234
01:26:12.680 --> 01:26:17.640
We're gonna destruct everything. It goes
to your mind. The Nairobi, the

1235
01:26:17.680 --> 01:26:23.560
Kenny Ethans Andy Embassy bombings, it
goes to your mind. The Tehran Embassy,

1236
01:26:24.439 --> 01:26:27.800
people being taken hostages. All of
these things goes to your mind.

1237
01:26:28.039 --> 01:26:31.039
And I'm there as a civilian,
but I had an M four, we

1238
01:26:31.119 --> 01:26:36.520
had our stuff shipped. There was
another unit guy there with me, and

1239
01:26:36.560 --> 01:26:40.560
I'm like, okay, if I
open this vault door and walk out and

1240
01:26:40.600 --> 01:26:44.359
there is a marine running, he's
gonna see an Arab guy. That's the

1241
01:26:44.359 --> 01:26:45.520
guy most like. He asked them, do you find this passport in the

1242
01:26:45.520 --> 01:26:48.960
street. He's gonna find an Arab
looking guy with an M four, so

1243
01:26:49.000 --> 01:26:54.960
I might get shot. And scenario
too. I opened that door and the

1244
01:26:55.000 --> 01:26:59.199
bad guys are there because they took
over the Marines, and I'm gonna get

1245
01:26:59.199 --> 01:27:02.680
shot. So I'm like, so
I'm the enemy of both sides. I'm

1246
01:27:02.720 --> 01:27:05.600
like, fuck, so find that. I'm like, you know what,

1247
01:27:05.840 --> 01:27:09.960
I have no choice. I gotta
open that door, and I gotta go

1248
01:27:10.000 --> 01:27:13.880
downstairs. So I go downstairs to
the defense at the Chase office. I

1249
01:27:13.960 --> 01:27:16.560
find somebody talking and he's under.
What they tell you is like there is

1250
01:27:16.600 --> 01:27:19.640
an explosion, you go under to
the table. So everybody did what they're

1251
01:27:19.640 --> 01:27:26.319
supposed to do. And then I
hear somebody else talking and I'm like,

1252
01:27:26.960 --> 01:27:30.600
man, I'm not fucking gonna get
shot again, Like in my mind,

1253
01:27:30.880 --> 01:27:33.640
that's what I'm saying. So I
hear somebody saying did you get shot before?

1254
01:27:34.399 --> 01:27:39.039
And somebody about to have a conversation
with me. I'm like, this

1255
01:27:39.079 --> 01:27:41.319
is not the time to have a
conversation. So I found the other unique

1256
01:27:41.319 --> 01:27:45.199
guy. We'll go to the rooftop. The marine who asked me, like

1257
01:27:45.199 --> 01:27:47.760
two months before, did you find
that passport in the street. He's sitting

1258
01:27:47.800 --> 01:27:50.920
there. Marines are very well disciplined, as you guys know. He has

1259
01:27:50.960 --> 01:27:56.039
his weapon and he comes. Me
and the other guy are there on the

1260
01:27:56.119 --> 01:28:01.720
rooftop as well. A couple of
agentsy guys came with us, and the

1261
01:28:01.800 --> 01:28:06.079
marine looks at us and he sees
that we have really cool weapons with all

1262
01:28:06.239 --> 01:28:11.520
the bells and whistles, and he's
like, is either one of you guys

1263
01:28:11.560 --> 01:28:15.039
outrank me? So the other guy
outdrank both of us. The other guy

1264
01:28:15.119 --> 01:28:17.199
was a master sergeant. I was
an East seven at that time. So

1265
01:28:17.239 --> 01:28:20.399
the other guy, who's the coolest
guy and that he was really cool,

1266
01:28:20.479 --> 01:28:26.600
calm Green Berey guy, Unit guy, and he's like a Master sergeants fan,

1267
01:28:26.640 --> 01:28:30.520
So I got you. The marine
just calms down, and the Marine

1268
01:28:30.600 --> 01:28:35.760
is like, I see guys across
the street with weapons, should I shoot?

1269
01:28:36.000 --> 01:28:39.039
And we're like, no, man. Those start of the guards are

1270
01:28:39.079 --> 01:28:45.680
shooting at the bad guys. So
that firefight goes back and forth. The

1271
01:28:45.840 --> 01:28:50.279
master sergeant finds a grenade unexploded.
He disarmed it, he threw at the

1272
01:28:50.279 --> 01:28:54.520
door, So I think the are
about shutting his fucking pants because he thought

1273
01:28:54.560 --> 01:28:58.560
grenade. So the whole thing lasted
for about I want to say, like

1274
01:28:58.640 --> 01:29:04.039
an hour at the end. I
put a lot more details about that in

1275
01:29:04.359 --> 01:29:08.760
the book. But at the end
we hear this huge explosion. So the

1276
01:29:08.800 --> 01:29:12.159
cord the bad guys were in that
they were supposed to actually to enter the

1277
01:29:12.399 --> 01:29:15.840
attack the embassy with They had propane
tanks, they were supposed to blow up

1278
01:29:15.840 --> 01:29:19.239
the embassy. They didn't, and
they didn't because they found an old The

1279
01:29:19.279 --> 01:29:23.920
guy was driving that truck, small
truck, found an old lady crossing the

1280
01:29:23.920 --> 01:29:27.199
street. He didn't want to hit
her. He avoided her, hit the

1281
01:29:27.199 --> 01:29:30.439
pillar rather than the doors. And
then that firefight went back and forth.

1282
01:29:30.520 --> 01:29:35.199
The local girls from the street.
They saved us. Although hostile country,

1283
01:29:35.880 --> 01:29:41.479
not friendly at all, but they
did their job to protect the diplomatic mission.

1284
01:29:42.159 --> 01:29:45.720
A couple of questions, I mean, I guess you know, first

1285
01:29:45.760 --> 01:29:48.159
off, were you guys able to
disrupt some of the terrorist rat lines that

1286
01:29:48.239 --> 01:29:54.079
you were looking to interdict or identify
in the country, And is that why

1287
01:29:54.079 --> 01:29:58.359
the embassy got attacked? Was it
because of that targeting? So we were

1288
01:29:58.399 --> 01:30:02.359
able to do disrupt a lot of
those, we were able to get guys

1289
01:30:03.560 --> 01:30:09.319
taken out. We had guys get
taken out in country. How we had

1290
01:30:09.359 --> 01:30:12.479
guys got taken out as soon as
they want to Iraq. But I don't

1291
01:30:12.520 --> 01:30:14.520
think it was related. I think
it's just this guy. I mean,

1292
01:30:14.560 --> 01:30:17.520
the embassy was in a very vulnerable
excuse me, they were in a very

1293
01:30:17.560 --> 01:30:23.479
vulnerable locations, and I think it
was more an attack against the local government,

1294
01:30:24.239 --> 01:30:26.760
not US, So they were trying
to show the local government is weak.

1295
01:30:27.880 --> 01:30:31.319
So and then it was an easy
target. So I think that that

1296
01:30:31.439 --> 01:30:35.039
was the reason. I mean,
nobody really knew exactly what was but you

1297
01:30:35.079 --> 01:30:42.399
got to realize during that time when
the Iraq War was going on, I

1298
01:30:42.479 --> 01:30:45.319
mean, we had enemies all over
the Middle East. I mean everybody was

1299
01:30:45.319 --> 01:30:51.039
like blaming us because I know some
people agree or disagree. A lot of

1300
01:30:51.760 --> 01:30:56.439
a lot of people like me and
the military with I don't think the Iraq

1301
01:30:56.479 --> 01:31:02.279
War was justifiable. I think this
was a bullshit thing happened and there was

1302
01:31:02.319 --> 01:31:05.800
no weapons of mass destruction. Yeah, yeah, there was no terrorists there.

1303
01:31:06.239 --> 01:31:10.439
We did everything possible. Like you
got to find any terroist affiliation in

1304
01:31:10.479 --> 01:31:15.399
Iraq, it was none. After
that, when the regime collapsed, it

1305
01:31:15.479 --> 01:31:17.199
drew them in. It drew them
in because it became the wild, wild

1306
01:31:17.239 --> 01:31:20.359
West, and they that drew the
men. The other question I want to

1307
01:31:20.359 --> 01:31:25.399
ask you about this the particular deployment
that I think would be interesting and not

1308
01:31:25.479 --> 01:31:28.920
to spark the big debate about what
is tactical and what is strategic, But

1309
01:31:29.359 --> 01:31:34.560
the CIA normally gathered strategic intelligence.
The army is oftentimes more interested in tactical

1310
01:31:34.560 --> 01:31:40.199
intelligence, although there's some strategic missions
there too. I just want to ask

1311
01:31:40.199 --> 01:31:43.880
about your experience working out of the
embassy with them, and like two kind

1312
01:31:43.880 --> 01:31:46.760
of like two different mentalities that from
an army guide to an agency officer.

1313
01:31:48.000 --> 01:31:55.079
So I think it was very,
very personality driven. So for example,

1314
01:31:55.119 --> 01:32:00.520
in that mission that I was just
talking about in the Levante, that agency

1315
01:32:00.560 --> 01:32:04.800
guys were super cool. We were
all we felt like a family because we

1316
01:32:04.800 --> 01:32:09.600
were all in the same shi hold
together, right, we got each other

1317
01:32:09.680 --> 01:32:13.319
backs. Hey, you had surveillance
today, so if you don't tell me

1318
01:32:13.319 --> 01:32:15.119
about it, the guy who survelled
you today might serve on me tomorrow.

1319
01:32:15.199 --> 01:32:23.520
So we would share and a lot
of information. Look at East Africa.

1320
01:32:24.319 --> 01:32:28.039
East Africa. We were going to
Somalia together. That was like a black

1321
01:32:28.039 --> 01:32:30.000
Hawk team. It's called the black
Hawk Gamy, So we were going to

1322
01:32:30.000 --> 01:32:34.119
Somalia together. Again, personality driven. We had a guy who was a

1323
01:32:35.800 --> 01:32:40.279
black Hawk team leader who was a
former Marine. He's like, I know

1324
01:32:40.359 --> 01:32:42.279
better than all of you guys,
So fuck all of you guys. You're

1325
01:32:42.279 --> 01:32:45.159
gonna do what I tell you to
do. So he would grab his phone

1326
01:32:45.119 --> 01:32:50.600
and openly call internationally talk about things
that were like heym, you should be

1327
01:32:50.640 --> 01:32:56.800
talking about this. Then fast forward, there was another guy after him who

1328
01:32:56.840 --> 01:33:00.279
was I think a high school used
to be a high school teacher in New

1329
01:33:00.359 --> 01:33:05.840
York who came and became the team
leader. Really calm, really smart.

1330
01:33:05.840 --> 01:33:13.239
Three again, extremely personality driven,
but there is there was like still there

1331
01:33:13.319 --> 01:33:17.039
was some competition there. Sure that
was like I'm Jessak, You're a CIA,

1332
01:33:17.880 --> 01:33:21.600
or he's like I'm CIA's career.
So it was and for us,

1333
01:33:23.600 --> 01:33:30.720
we were able to operate under Title
fifty and Title twenty. We're able to

1334
01:33:30.760 --> 01:33:31.640
operate under both. So one of
them is like, you know, you

1335
01:33:31.680 --> 01:33:35.880
operate in clandestinely, so for the
unit title ten, Title ten, Yeah,

1336
01:33:35.920 --> 01:33:39.840
so title ten on Title fifteen,
so we were able to operate under

1337
01:33:39.840 --> 01:33:43.079
both. Yeah, it's an interesting
thing that your unit is able to conduct

1338
01:33:43.119 --> 01:33:47.840
covert operations, clean destline operations,
or conventional vary co operations. Well,

1339
01:33:47.920 --> 01:33:51.399
it depends under which title you were
in and who's on top, is it

1340
01:33:51.600 --> 01:33:56.119
CIA or US, and how we're
going to do this together. But there

1341
01:33:56.159 --> 01:34:00.800
was some deployments where we worked extremely
well together, some other deployments where just

1342
01:34:01.000 --> 01:34:05.560
we never Again I might be biased, but we never hated like or disliked

1343
01:34:05.560 --> 01:34:11.279
them or disliked working with them.
But it was like when you go in

1344
01:34:11.319 --> 01:34:16.079
a mission and you come back and
the CIA guy changed the door combo and

1345
01:34:16.119 --> 01:34:20.880
you're like, dude, I thought
I went team that's super passive aggressive exactly,

1346
01:34:20.960 --> 01:34:26.279
And you're like, did you ever
was there ever any correlation for you

1347
01:34:26.359 --> 01:34:32.680
between the age of like the person
running the agency's operation, like we're younger.

1348
01:34:32.880 --> 01:34:36.439
If there was a younger guy,
there was he more or less you

1349
01:34:36.479 --> 01:34:41.600
know, easier or harder to work
with? Yeah? I think that yeah,

1350
01:34:41.800 --> 01:34:45.239
no, no again, Personality driven? Yeah, there was, Like

1351
01:34:45.239 --> 01:34:48.239
some younger guys were really really easy
going, nice to work with. You

1352
01:34:48.239 --> 01:34:50.880
would think older guys would be more
mature and they'd be like, okay,

1353
01:34:50.880 --> 01:34:55.039
we mission focused. But then you
have older guys who are like, you

1354
01:34:55.039 --> 01:34:57.560
know, who's gonna get credit for
this? Right? In one of the

1355
01:34:57.600 --> 01:35:00.520
deployments and one of the missions,
we had a guy who pretended to be

1356
01:35:00.600 --> 01:35:03.319
sick. He stayed in the hotel
room. He all he did is just

1357
01:35:03.359 --> 01:35:10.119
he fucking ate pizza all night.
Next day and he's like, he's like,

1358
01:35:10.159 --> 01:35:13.039
I'm sick, And next day he
wrote the cable And I was like

1359
01:35:13.119 --> 01:35:16.279
dude, you either have We detained
the guy. That night, me and

1360
01:35:16.279 --> 01:35:19.359
another guy went out with the locals. We got the guy. I mean,

1361
01:35:19.680 --> 01:35:21.760
we did the whole thing. He
just stayed in the hotel room.

1362
01:35:21.960 --> 01:35:25.800
But he wrote the best cable ever. And I was like that guy,

1363
01:35:25.840 --> 01:35:29.119
man, I was like, did
you either have a very wild imagination or

1364
01:35:29.159 --> 01:35:32.319
you did something I didn't see?
But we were not honestly interested in taking

1365
01:35:32.319 --> 01:35:34.560
credit. We were like, you
know, he want to take credit for

1366
01:35:34.600 --> 01:35:41.239
it, so be it. So
ninety percent of the military guys I worked

1367
01:35:41.239 --> 01:35:45.800
with like on our field and you
guys know it and being in the same

1368
01:35:45.840 --> 01:35:49.920
category of dude, I just want
to get the mission done. Who takes

1369
01:35:49.960 --> 01:35:56.840
credit for it? I don't care. Now, did most of the agency

1370
01:35:56.840 --> 01:35:59.359
people that you were with, did
they have a military background or did some

1371
01:35:59.399 --> 01:36:00.960
of it? What? Did?
It? Very quite a bit? It

1372
01:36:00.079 --> 01:36:03.560
varied, And the guys it was
hard to work with were the guys who

1373
01:36:06.000 --> 01:36:10.880
never had military background. There was
a guy one of them. Again,

1374
01:36:11.359 --> 01:36:15.119
We're in a in a very very
rough country and he and I go and

1375
01:36:15.119 --> 01:36:18.880
I'm doing a lot of things together
and he he and I like discussing something

1376
01:36:19.000 --> 01:36:25.439
and he's like, you know,
I think and I want to just freeze

1377
01:36:25.439 --> 01:36:28.119
it how he said it, because
he's like, he's a smart guy,

1378
01:36:29.079 --> 01:36:34.600
and he's like, I I never
been wrong, but I was wrong only

1379
01:36:34.640 --> 01:36:40.920
once, and that one time I
was mistaken. And as soon as he

1380
01:36:41.000 --> 01:36:44.399
told me that I was driving,
I pulled over on the side of the

1381
01:36:44.479 --> 01:36:45.720
road. I said, dude,
say this one more time. I'm gonna

1382
01:36:45.960 --> 01:36:48.199
kick you out of the car.
Yeah. Yeah, if we're both on

1383
01:36:48.279 --> 01:36:51.520
patrol in Vietnam, only one of
us is making it to the right.

1384
01:36:51.600 --> 01:36:55.880
Yeah. And then I told him, when you look, who looks local

1385
01:36:56.079 --> 01:37:00.479
me, not you. You are
a six four sixty three white guy in

1386
01:37:00.520 --> 01:37:05.359
a country, the tallest guy most
like my height. So's just say this

1387
01:37:05.399 --> 01:37:11.039
one more time, but again,
and then you realize. And the guy

1388
01:37:11.159 --> 01:37:13.000
was like, you know, he's
like, dude, I came from a

1389
01:37:13.039 --> 01:37:16.279
culture where you have to show that
right, and you have to show that

1390
01:37:16.359 --> 01:37:19.279
how good you are. And I
was like, dude, but we we

1391
01:37:19.399 --> 01:37:23.600
here together, that we might die
together or live together, So you cannot

1392
01:37:23.600 --> 01:37:25.439
tell me that you've never been wrong, because when I tell you, we're

1393
01:37:25.439 --> 01:37:30.159
gonna make a left ear making the
left here. But again, that guy

1394
01:37:30.199 --> 01:37:31.720
was never in the most so I've
seen. I've seen that, and I've

1395
01:37:31.760 --> 01:37:35.119
seen the guys are like who got
your back? One hundred percent? You

1396
01:37:35.159 --> 01:37:38.279
know, there was a guy with
with me in a rock and he's like

1397
01:37:38.720 --> 01:37:45.600
ground branch guy, older guy,
and honestly, I was like, he

1398
01:37:45.640 --> 01:37:48.399
came out with me a few times. He did a lot of things and

1399
01:37:48.520 --> 01:37:50.880
when you when you see the guy, you're like, man, that guy

1400
01:37:51.840 --> 01:37:56.279
with the experience he had, with
the knowledge he had, I should be

1401
01:37:56.319 --> 01:37:58.960
saluting him every time I see him. But he was like, hey,

1402
01:37:59.000 --> 01:38:01.279
brother, what do you need?
Yeah, so you have. It's personality

1403
01:38:01.319 --> 01:38:05.399
driven big. Next. The other
thing I don't want to gloss over and

1404
01:38:05.439 --> 01:38:10.479
miss is as you mentioned, there's
this incident where you get shot. Ye,

1405
01:38:11.319 --> 01:38:15.239
what happened there? Where were you
and what happened? So I was

1406
01:38:15.279 --> 01:38:18.760
in Africa and we were doing a
lot of things in Somalia in an out

1407
01:38:18.760 --> 01:38:26.560
of Somalia, and the exact the
reason why I got shot, honestly,

1408
01:38:26.560 --> 01:38:30.479
nobody would ever know. When we
put things together again. We have an

1409
01:38:30.520 --> 01:38:35.319
analyotical mind. And so a few
days a week before we were in Somalia

1410
01:38:35.880 --> 01:38:42.000
and we there was an ambush set
up for us. We get really lucky

1411
01:38:42.239 --> 01:38:45.680
that we were supposed to go land
and get from point A to point B.

1412
01:38:46.520 --> 01:38:53.119
They sat the ambush in the way. Well, when we landed again,

1413
01:38:53.159 --> 01:38:57.199
this is one hundred percent. Look
that we had some equipment in the

1414
01:38:57.239 --> 01:39:00.680
airfield where we were landing that we
haven't service for a while, and I

1415
01:39:00.680 --> 01:39:03.159
said, guys, I think we
should service it and I want to stay

1416
01:39:03.159 --> 01:39:08.319
here to service the equipment. Me
and another guy. So the rest of

1417
01:39:08.359 --> 01:39:10.840
the team said, no, we're
not going to leave you. We'll just

1418
01:39:10.840 --> 01:39:15.000
stay with you. Way out of
the plan and this is something just happened

1419
01:39:15.000 --> 01:39:20.920
in the last minute, so we
decided we stayed. So the Al Chabab

1420
01:39:21.000 --> 01:39:28.520
guys who were ambushing us, they
were like they expecting us the land and

1421
01:39:28.560 --> 01:39:31.720
they move where we didn't move,
and we stayed for about an hour messing

1422
01:39:31.800 --> 01:39:40.600
with the equipment. They thought we're
not going to point B, so they

1423
01:39:40.600 --> 01:39:44.560
started coming our way, so that
the local guys we were dealing with they

1424
01:39:44.560 --> 01:39:49.119
had checkpoints. The al Shabab guys
started running over the checkpoints, killing a

1425
01:39:49.159 --> 01:39:54.720
couple of guys, guys getting radios. They called the guys we were with,

1426
01:39:55.000 --> 01:39:59.479
Hey, man, they're attacking you. In Italy. The pilot that

1427
01:39:59.520 --> 01:40:02.319
we had the time local pilot from
the area. Again, this is not

1428
01:40:02.359 --> 01:40:08.680
a military aircraft, this is a
local So the pilot he understood, he

1429
01:40:08.760 --> 01:40:13.359
understands Somali, very calm usually,
but all of a sudden he's no longer

1430
01:40:13.399 --> 01:40:15.960
come. He's like, we need
to leave now. And I've never seen

1431
01:40:15.960 --> 01:40:18.359
that guy that way. And I'm
like, if he's saying we need to

1432
01:40:18.399 --> 01:40:21.359
leave now, we need to leave
now. Who's six of us? Six

1433
01:40:21.520 --> 01:40:29.079
US guys and the pilot. So
we ran to the to the aircraft.

1434
01:40:29.119 --> 01:40:32.880
We grabbing our equipment, a common
guy from the agency grabbing his equipment,

1435
01:40:32.920 --> 01:40:39.039
dropping shit kiss officer waiting fucking sandals
for some reason because he thought he's going

1436
01:40:39.039 --> 01:40:43.479
on vacation in Somalia. So we
made it to there, and we took

1437
01:40:43.520 --> 01:40:47.279
our equipment with us. When we
took our equipment with us, we start

1438
01:40:47.600 --> 01:40:54.800
getting through the intercepts and basically these
guys were, hey, six white pigs

1439
01:40:54.800 --> 01:41:00.159
just landed and bush do this?
Do that a voice recognition? And of

1440
01:41:00.239 --> 01:41:03.560
some of these guys, one of
them was Somali American. Interesting, so

1441
01:41:05.319 --> 01:41:11.039
that immigrant communities here a lot smaller
than a lot of people think. People

1442
01:41:11.079 --> 01:41:15.039
know each other. I know your
cousin, Your cousin knows his wife,

1443
01:41:15.039 --> 01:41:21.840
and his wife knows my sister.
So for five days after one of the

1444
01:41:23.000 --> 01:41:28.560
linguists that we have, who's Somalia
American cleared TSCI, guy calls me.

1445
01:41:28.880 --> 01:41:33.600
So that happened The ambush happened on
a Saturday, or the attempt of an

1446
01:41:33.600 --> 01:41:40.000
ambush happened on a Saturday. Tuesday
evening, I get a call from my

1447
01:41:40.079 --> 01:41:44.479
linguist. I was the team leader
at that time, and he's like,

1448
01:41:44.479 --> 01:41:46.479
I need to come to your house
now immediately. This is Tuesday night.

1449
01:41:46.520 --> 01:41:50.800
I'm like nine o'clock night and I
was like, can into it till tomorrow,

1450
01:41:50.880 --> 01:41:53.800
and he's like, nope, I
have to come now. So he

1451
01:41:53.840 --> 01:41:58.119
comes and apparently the wife of the
Somalia American was involved in the attack.

1452
01:41:58.680 --> 01:42:00.560
Somehow, I think, I don't
like if his bank I can't got something

1453
01:42:00.600 --> 01:42:06.680
happened to him. His wife knows
the sister of the linguist. The wife

1454
01:42:06.760 --> 01:42:12.119
is in the country we're in.
She calls the linguist, she meets him,

1455
01:42:12.239 --> 01:42:14.520
they have dinner. She gives him
a phone number. So like my

1456
01:42:14.600 --> 01:42:17.239
husband would like to talk to the
CIA. The guy knows we don't work

1457
01:42:17.239 --> 01:42:20.119
for the CIA. The guy freaks
out, He leaves her comes straight to

1458
01:42:20.119 --> 01:42:27.439
my house. So that's Tuesday,
Thursday. We go out in a mission

1459
01:42:27.439 --> 01:42:32.560
in the morning, we'll come back
and then I leave the house. Later

1460
01:42:32.680 --> 01:42:36.319
that day, I come back,
there are three guys by the door of

1461
01:42:36.319 --> 01:42:42.279
my house. One of them child
me immediately. Again, people can't say,

1462
01:42:42.279 --> 01:42:46.479
well it was a robbery, Nah, possible, And then people can

1463
01:42:46.520 --> 01:42:48.920
go and say, well, when
you put all of these elements together,

1464
01:42:49.159 --> 01:42:54.680
yeah, there is possibly an ambush
because you were getting ambushed literally a week

1465
01:42:54.760 --> 01:42:58.000
before, as a matter of fact, not even a week five days before.

1466
01:42:59.000 --> 01:43:01.760
So Saturday, Tuesday, Thursday.
So Thursday night, I get shout

1467
01:43:02.920 --> 01:43:06.319
and again I get out of my
car. If a guy robbing you,

1468
01:43:06.600 --> 01:43:09.800
he's not gonna shoot you right away
because he doesn't want to shoot you.

1469
01:43:10.159 --> 01:43:13.119
I just want to take your money. Yeah, I'm driving a very expensive

1470
01:43:13.159 --> 01:43:15.439
car for that country. Didn't try
to take the car, didn't try to

1471
01:43:15.439 --> 01:43:21.720
take my money too, didn't take
my watch. I took my phone and

1472
01:43:25.159 --> 01:43:30.079
took some ideas I had in my
pocket. But they didn't. Well,

1473
01:43:30.119 --> 01:43:35.119
first off, obviously they didn't give
you the coup de gras, and they

1474
01:43:35.399 --> 01:43:40.079
did they try to kidnap you.
No, nothing, That's like, very

1475
01:43:40.199 --> 01:43:43.800
very weird. I get out of
the car. Literally, I get we're

1476
01:43:43.840 --> 01:43:47.880
living in a compound. It's about
Our house is about fifteen meters away from

1477
01:43:47.920 --> 01:43:51.479
the gate. So even if the
guy came back, came after me to

1478
01:43:51.520 --> 01:43:56.399
the gate, he would he would
have not made it with me. I

1479
01:43:56.439 --> 01:43:59.199
mean I'm driving, he's walking or
running. He would have not made it

1480
01:43:59.239 --> 01:44:04.199
with me. He was there and
then it then so I saw a gun

1481
01:44:04.239 --> 01:44:09.039
in his hand and he squeezed the
trigger and I was like, okay,

1482
01:44:09.159 --> 01:44:12.079
I didn't feel it, so I
was like he missed. It's a ricochet.

1483
01:44:12.159 --> 01:44:15.359
I felt like, you know,
a very tiny pinch. So I

1484
01:44:15.399 --> 01:44:16.479
was like, okay, miss,
we'll get We'll get in a fist fight,

1485
01:44:17.640 --> 01:44:20.760
trying to take the gun. He's
trying to get off me. I'm

1486
01:44:20.760 --> 01:44:25.399
trying to choke him. He's trying. So we'll get into this for a

1487
01:44:25.439 --> 01:44:31.159
few minutes. Then one guy comes
in with them punch me with the bottom

1488
01:44:31.199 --> 01:44:34.760
of his pistol. So the other
guy had a gun as well, So

1489
01:44:34.800 --> 01:44:38.279
I get punched in the chin and
I'm like, fuck, that hurts.

1490
01:44:40.000 --> 01:44:45.199
Then finally they get the guy off
my hands. They took off. I

1491
01:44:45.279 --> 01:44:47.279
knock in the door. Well,
I put my hand on my stomach and

1492
01:44:47.319 --> 01:44:53.760
I feel like, you know,
warm liquid and it's doric and I'm like,

1493
01:44:54.359 --> 01:44:57.079
I'm like, fuck, I got
how So I knocking the door,

1494
01:44:57.119 --> 01:44:59.600
get my Betty to open the door, because me and another guy living in

1495
01:44:59.760 --> 01:45:01.199
the same house, I was like
him and opened the door. I got

1496
01:45:01.199 --> 01:45:05.760
shot and he heard all of this
shebang going on outside and he's like,

1497
01:45:05.760 --> 01:45:09.000
I didn't know what was going on, so I wasn't gonna open the door.

1498
01:45:09.800 --> 01:45:11.359
And I don't blame him. Yeah, you know. I'm like,

1499
01:45:11.399 --> 01:45:14.760
Okay, you hear all of this. Yeah, it's a local thing,

1500
01:45:14.920 --> 01:45:16.680
Like, so you don't know what's
going on and it's happening right in front

1501
01:45:16.720 --> 01:45:20.520
of your door. Yeah. Then
I was like, okay, call the

1502
01:45:20.560 --> 01:45:25.800
embassy. Let's let's get things in
the right process. And I think,

1503
01:45:26.920 --> 01:45:30.000
and you said this, You're like, I'm not gonna die. So in

1504
01:45:30.039 --> 01:45:32.640
my mind, I'm like, I
can fucking die. Yeah. My dad

1505
01:45:32.640 --> 01:45:35.479
passed away like less than a year
ago. I just can't die. Yeah.

1506
01:45:36.079 --> 01:45:40.439
My wife is young. I have
a newborn, she's like less than

1507
01:45:40.479 --> 01:45:45.479
two years old. So I don't
know what I think. Your training takes

1508
01:45:45.560 --> 01:45:49.079
over, things take over. You
don't know what's going on. I'm like

1509
01:45:49.159 --> 01:45:53.479
let's call the embassy. We call
the embassy, we call post one,

1510
01:45:53.640 --> 01:45:58.720
send an ambulance. It's Africa,
now, ambulance. I sit and I

1511
01:45:58.760 --> 01:46:02.479
sit and I sit and then I
sit down and I think I pass out,

1512
01:46:03.880 --> 01:46:08.640
But me thinking I didn't pass out, my buddy is like, hey,

1513
01:46:08.680 --> 01:46:12.800
man, you keep passing out.
So I get a towel. Stop

1514
01:46:12.840 --> 01:46:16.760
the bleeding. Then finally, like
I think, I wake up and I'm

1515
01:46:16.800 --> 01:46:20.760
like, where's the fucking ambulance.
There's no amblance. So I stand up.

1516
01:46:21.119 --> 01:46:25.000
I'm like I can't because every time
I sit down, I feel like

1517
01:46:25.000 --> 01:46:30.279
I'm passing out. So by then
the compound we're living in, the guards

1518
01:46:30.279 --> 01:46:33.239
are there, there is, like, you know, a lot of people

1519
01:46:33.319 --> 01:46:36.479
around what's going on. So I
look at one of the gords. I'm

1520
01:46:36.479 --> 01:46:39.479
like, do you have a car
and he's like yes. I'm like,

1521
01:46:39.520 --> 01:46:42.520
okay, you're taking me to the
hospital. My buddy, who's like most

1522
01:46:42.560 --> 01:46:45.640
like I still have some blood from
me on his shirt, he's like,

1523
01:46:45.680 --> 01:46:47.880
man, I got a change.
I can go to the hospital. And

1524
01:46:47.920 --> 01:46:50.800
again he's not thinking, and I
want to like, now you think about

1525
01:46:50.840 --> 01:46:54.239
it. I was like, dude, you go to the hospitals. You're

1526
01:46:54.239 --> 01:46:56.840
going to the hospital, shot in
the gun exactly. I'm like, you're

1527
01:46:56.840 --> 01:47:01.279
not going out in a day.
So I jump in this truck and that

1528
01:47:02.199 --> 01:47:04.880
the guard driving me. It's a
pickup truck. I'm in the front.

1529
01:47:04.920 --> 01:47:10.159
I'm saying next to him, and
I think the guy hit like every pothole

1530
01:47:10.199 --> 01:47:13.479
in the city. And then you
start feeling it. You start feeling like

1531
01:47:13.479 --> 01:47:17.119
you got's moving, you got shaking, and you're like okay, and like

1532
01:47:17.159 --> 01:47:23.399
it's Africa. I can't die.
So you make it to the hospital and

1533
01:47:23.439 --> 01:47:27.119
then I'm trying to open the door
and I can't and I tell the guard.

1534
01:47:27.199 --> 01:47:30.319
I'm like, I tell that the
guy was driving. I'm gonna unlocked

1535
01:47:30.319 --> 01:47:32.399
the door, and it's like it's
unlocked, but I think I lost enough

1536
01:47:32.399 --> 01:47:38.720
blood and I lost strength and I
can't open the door. Finally the guy

1537
01:47:38.720 --> 01:47:42.960
comes out and he opens I get
out. By then they have this song.

1538
01:47:43.840 --> 01:47:45.359
I don't know what you call it. It's like the bed with the

1539
01:47:45.359 --> 01:47:50.439
wheels, the grinning, and it's
very high and I'm like, dude,

1540
01:47:50.439 --> 01:47:53.960
bring it down, and he's like, it's broken. It's not an obstacle

1541
01:47:54.039 --> 01:47:58.159
course exactly. It's not made for
short people. So I'm like, dude,

1542
01:47:58.199 --> 01:48:00.560
bring it down and he's like it's
broken. I'm like, how the

1543
01:48:00.600 --> 01:48:03.720
fuck I'm gonna get on it.
So I step on the side of the

1544
01:48:03.760 --> 01:48:06.960
truck and I jump, and again
you feel like your gut's just coming out.

1545
01:48:09.000 --> 01:48:13.039
Long story short, we'll go inside. X ray machine is broken,

1546
01:48:13.279 --> 01:48:15.079
so you have to sit up.
So I asked in the nurse. I'm

1547
01:48:15.119 --> 01:48:20.680
like, do you see an exit
one that's an emergency room now? And

1548
01:48:20.720 --> 01:48:24.359
she's like yes. I'm like,
okay, if you draw a line between

1549
01:48:24.359 --> 01:48:27.439
the entry wound and the exit one, what do you think it hits.

1550
01:48:27.800 --> 01:48:29.960
She's like, you kid me.
I'm like, oh, thank god,

1551
01:48:30.000 --> 01:48:31.680
I have two of those. I
mean literally, I was like, but

1552
01:48:31.880 --> 01:48:35.239
you think and at that time,
you think you're going to the hospital hit

1553
01:48:35.279 --> 01:48:36.840
in the US, so they ask
you, what's your name? What's your

1554
01:48:36.840 --> 01:48:41.159
social security? So I'm thinking of
all of these things, so what's my

1555
01:48:41.159 --> 01:48:45.279
social Luckily they don't ask, but
I remember, I mean, I memorized

1556
01:48:45.279 --> 01:48:46.880
all of these things, so again
it's not me right, so going there

1557
01:48:47.960 --> 01:48:53.279
and then so I told that they
I'm like, hey, guys, don't

1558
01:48:53.279 --> 01:48:55.520
put me to sleep. I want
to know what's going on because I didn't

1559
01:48:55.520 --> 01:49:00.520
trust anybody. I had trust issues. Yeah. So like so finally that

1560
01:49:00.720 --> 01:49:04.920
my buddy comes, the embassy sen
the embassy doctor comes. The embassy doctor

1561
01:49:05.359 --> 01:49:14.079
had another doctor with him who's Pakistani, Indian, British educated but not local

1562
01:49:14.159 --> 01:49:16.439
to the country you're in. But
he's one of those guys that you look

1563
01:49:16.479 --> 01:49:23.520
at him and you feel calm.
He's just he exhibited this sort of like

1564
01:49:24.000 --> 01:49:26.840
confidence and you're like, okay,
this guy. And he's like, hey,

1565
01:49:26.840 --> 01:49:29.479
we're gonna put you to sleep.
I'm gonna open you up, We're

1566
01:49:29.520 --> 01:49:32.960
gonna clean you from the inside,
put you back together, and you wake

1567
01:49:33.039 --> 01:49:36.840
up. So my way of asking
the guy, I'm a very proud guy,

1568
01:49:36.880 --> 01:49:39.640
you know, like I'm a just
a guy, so I'm not gonna

1569
01:49:39.640 --> 01:49:42.680
cry. But my way of asking
the guy am I gonna die or not?

1570
01:49:43.760 --> 01:49:46.600
Is like, am I gonna see
you again? And the doctor was

1571
01:49:46.640 --> 01:49:51.079
like he held my hand, squeezed
it and he's like, yes you will.

1572
01:49:51.760 --> 01:49:55.640
And I'm like, okay, guess
can put me sleep? So they

1573
01:49:56.640 --> 01:49:58.279
tell you, like, you know, you put this thing and they tell

1574
01:49:58.279 --> 01:49:59.840
you to count to ten. They're
like, hey, we're taking you to

1575
01:49:59.840 --> 01:50:03.039
the My buddy who's with me is
like, what fucking theater are you taking

1576
01:50:03.119 --> 01:50:09.439
him too, and it's the British
way of saying the operating room. Yeah.

1577
01:50:10.079 --> 01:50:13.039
So I was in, they took
me, they operated in me.

1578
01:50:15.399 --> 01:50:18.239
I think they told me it took
about five six hours. Yeah. So

1579
01:50:18.279 --> 01:50:23.640
they opened me up, they cleaned
it. I didn't lose my kidney.

1580
01:50:24.439 --> 01:50:28.399
Did it go through your kidney opened
through my intestines, through and through twice?

1581
01:50:28.560 --> 01:50:32.760
Wow? So I lost half of
my intestine. The exit wound was

1582
01:50:32.800 --> 01:50:36.399
half an inch away from my spine. Wow. So the doctor comes in

1583
01:50:36.399 --> 01:50:39.560
the morning when I wake up,
and I wake up and there are a

1584
01:50:39.600 --> 01:50:43.520
lot of people that are like,
you know, guys from Navy seals that

1585
01:50:43.600 --> 01:50:45.920
they were the point with us.
They are there, they making fun of

1586
01:50:45.920 --> 01:50:48.199
my stomach business, the fucking big
and the guy was like, man,

1587
01:50:48.199 --> 01:50:50.920
I'm glad you're not working out,
and I'm like, dude's it's it's full

1588
01:50:50.960 --> 01:50:57.640
of air. Local doctors there.
I didn't know who they are, but

1589
01:50:57.840 --> 01:51:00.079
the local pilots sent his brother who's
a doctor. So a lot of people

1590
01:51:00.199 --> 01:51:04.359
came. And then there was a
Navy corman. He was with us in

1591
01:51:05.319 --> 01:51:10.359
the Navy coreman was one of the
guys helped them to move me from So.

1592
01:51:10.439 --> 01:51:13.560
Yeah, so I stayed in the
ear for not in the ear in

1593
01:51:13.680 --> 01:51:19.600
the intensive unit the ic you.
So I was in the ICU for a

1594
01:51:19.720 --> 01:51:23.159
day. Then they moved me to
a regular room. And they moved me

1595
01:51:23.239 --> 01:51:28.039
to a regular room the unit command. They called me like, hey,

1596
01:51:28.199 --> 01:51:31.760
we have a plan with MADEVACII to
walter to Germany to launch tool, will

1597
01:51:31.800 --> 01:51:38.720
fly your wife there, will swap
dogs. Your wife will know it's you.

1598
01:51:39.560 --> 01:51:43.079
And I said, nope, don't
tell my wife. Anating First of

1599
01:51:43.119 --> 01:51:45.760
all, I cannot move because you
don't know how much your core area.

1600
01:51:45.600 --> 01:51:48.159
Yeah, you cannot really move.
I mean you are in pain. Then

1601
01:51:48.199 --> 01:51:54.000
you are in severe pain. The
doctor who operated in me believed in ethical

1602
01:51:54.039 --> 01:51:59.880
medicine. He didn't believe in painkillers. So he's like, you heal better

1603
01:52:00.000 --> 01:52:02.359
when you're not taking painkillers. So
I was not any painkillers for like about

1604
01:52:02.359 --> 01:52:05.560
a couple of weeks. But I
told him not to not to tell my

1605
01:52:05.560 --> 01:52:13.760
wife. And that's a there are
like a step by step when there is

1606
01:52:13.960 --> 01:52:17.359
like an instant and like the instant
report, okay, this is what happened.

1607
01:52:17.439 --> 01:52:20.399
Not to find next a kan not
to fight this three or there are

1608
01:52:20.520 --> 01:52:24.560
steps. So by that time I
do appreciate the Unite command, like they

1609
01:52:24.760 --> 01:52:30.880
actually honored my wish. My wife
till now is pissed off. We didn't

1610
01:52:30.880 --> 01:52:32.600
tell her. She didn't not tell
after I came home. But the thing

1611
01:52:32.720 --> 01:52:36.319
is, I mean I get it
because there's nothing she can do about it,

1612
01:52:36.960 --> 01:52:41.399
and it's just gonna spin her,
you know, put her into a

1613
01:52:41.439 --> 01:52:45.479
spin like. It's sort of that
no harm, no foul, look like

1614
01:52:45.039 --> 01:52:47.880
I'm here, I'm home. I
agree with you one hundredcent, because to

1615
01:52:47.920 --> 01:52:51.079
me, I was like, if
if somebody told her I've been shot and

1616
01:52:51.119 --> 01:52:57.560
I'm okay, she will not She's
like, did he lose a rip?

1617
01:52:57.600 --> 01:53:00.840
Did he lose his arm? No
matter what they would've told her, right,

1618
01:53:00.359 --> 01:53:04.159
she would have been worried, and
I didn't want her to be worried.

1619
01:53:04.520 --> 01:53:10.359
And then by the unit, had
h that the right people ready to

1620
01:53:10.399 --> 01:53:13.720
go tell her your husband's dead?
Yeah, I mean they did prepare everything,

1621
01:53:13.840 --> 01:53:15.640
Like, you know, am I
getting to live or die? Yeah?

1622
01:53:16.199 --> 01:53:21.800
I keep surprising people by not dying. Did you want? One of

1623
01:53:21.800 --> 01:53:27.800
the things that I've always found comforting
comforting is the military sense of humor in

1624
01:53:27.920 --> 01:53:31.079
the and and sort of they okay, you're okay, let's be callous about

1625
01:53:31.079 --> 01:53:34.119
it. And in the sense of
for me, that's always been easier to

1626
01:53:34.119 --> 01:53:40.600
deal to deal with than people's true
like sympathy than their genuine sympathy. So

1627
01:53:40.720 --> 01:53:43.880
like when the seals are around you, fucking talking with you about like your

1628
01:53:43.880 --> 01:53:47.479
belly and stuff, how did that
feel for you? Honestly, it was

1629
01:53:47.479 --> 01:53:51.600
really funny. I mean I like
that that say, the guy one of

1630
01:53:51.640 --> 01:53:55.000
them, like they were great guys. I mean, the two guys there

1631
01:53:55.159 --> 01:53:58.680
there at that time. Those are
the guys who were involved in the almost

1632
01:53:58.720 --> 01:54:01.760
ambushed with us. We were not
supposed to take rifles to Somalia, but

1633
01:54:01.840 --> 01:54:04.720
we we had it. They had
it. We had it hidden, they

1634
01:54:04.760 --> 01:54:08.199
had it hidden. We didn't tell
them, they didn't tell us. But

1635
01:54:08.279 --> 01:54:10.960
then when they realized that we're doing
something we're I supposed to be doing,

1636
01:54:11.039 --> 01:54:15.960
we all covered for each other.
Yeah. Then they came the mid funny

1637
01:54:15.960 --> 01:54:17.359
and I was like, you know, let's just fucking laugh. And then

1638
01:54:17.960 --> 01:54:21.520
one of them, like a lot
of us at that time and in the

1639
01:54:21.600 --> 01:54:26.680
age, and you can relate to
this ribble. We used to drink ribble

1640
01:54:26.760 --> 01:54:30.039
up to the fucking wazoo. Yeah, so these guys, he comes to

1641
01:54:30.119 --> 01:54:32.279
visit me. One of them comes
to visit me in the hospital and he

1642
01:54:32.359 --> 01:54:35.880
brings me a pack of ribble and
I was like, dude, I can

1643
01:54:35.960 --> 01:54:39.840
let eat a drink. I'm on
IVS. I have a hole of my

1644
01:54:39.920 --> 01:54:44.680
stack. So he's like, oh, I didn't know that. So he

1645
01:54:44.720 --> 01:54:46.159
sits down. He's like, oh, fucking drink it. And he grabs

1646
01:54:46.199 --> 01:54:49.960
it and drinks it and we laugh
about it and this whole thing. But

1647
01:54:50.000 --> 01:54:55.079
yeah, the sense of humor.
Honestly, once he passed that that,

1648
01:54:55.199 --> 01:54:59.760
hey, this could have been one
of us going away. Yeah, well

1649
01:54:59.800 --> 01:55:01.359
he's steel an Earth. Let's just
fucking make fun of you. Yeah.

1650
01:55:02.000 --> 01:55:05.239
Yeah. When I left the hospital, they had a picture of my stomach

1651
01:55:05.880 --> 01:55:11.800
and I looked pregnant. Whoever has
that picture, I would give him like

1652
01:55:12.319 --> 01:55:14.800
fifty dollars if you give it to
me. I don't know. They kept

1653
01:55:14.800 --> 01:55:17.039
it. I don't know what it
went. But they had a picture with

1654
01:55:17.119 --> 01:55:20.520
that and a purple heart drone on
my stomach in the picture. I mean,

1655
01:55:20.520 --> 01:55:24.920
they really made fun of it.
Yeah, and I did appreciate it.

1656
01:55:25.000 --> 01:55:26.920
Yeah, I was like, huh, whatever, cool. Did the

1657
01:55:27.159 --> 01:55:30.079
army give you a purple heart for
that one? It took the Army a

1658
01:55:30.279 --> 01:55:34.960
bit, I bet it did,
because the Army. They were like,

1659
01:55:35.399 --> 01:55:40.159
it's funny. So a purple heart
is not an award, it's an entitlement.

1660
01:55:41.000 --> 01:55:45.399
It's a forty They submitted forty one
eight design. So the unit was

1661
01:55:45.399 --> 01:55:48.760
was it an act of enemy or
not? And I was like, and

1662
01:55:48.800 --> 01:55:51.479
I was like, guys, I
think somebody shooting somebody. It felt like

1663
01:55:51.560 --> 01:55:54.880
it. Yeah, it felt like
an actor. I didn't feel like a

1664
01:55:54.920 --> 01:55:58.239
friend. I was like, I
think he's an enemy, but you guys

1665
01:55:58.239 --> 01:56:02.800
can define that however, So it
took the Army about four years. Wow.

1666
01:56:02.880 --> 01:56:06.159
That's wow. I mean it's really
wild because you know, thinking back,

1667
01:56:06.279 --> 01:56:10.039
like the Steff guys in Al Salvador, like some of those guys still

1668
01:56:10.039 --> 01:56:13.239
haven't purple hearts from that. Mm
hmm. Yeah, it takes decades.

1669
01:56:13.279 --> 01:56:17.439
Sometimes the Army regulations is always in
favors of the service member. So if

1670
01:56:17.840 --> 01:56:23.279
if it's fifty to fifty on an
active enemy or not, they lean towards

1671
01:56:23.319 --> 01:56:27.039
an active enemy. I think it
was just and I don't want to I

1672
01:56:27.079 --> 01:56:30.640
don't want to bad mouth any like
leadership, but I think it was lack

1673
01:56:30.680 --> 01:56:34.079
of understanding of the leadership at that
time. Yeah. Once the paywall work

1674
01:56:34.119 --> 01:56:39.640
Coorse submitted to Jaysuck. It was
approved within twenty four hours. There was

1675
01:56:39.680 --> 01:56:43.600
no there is no question about it. I mean, you got shot,

1676
01:56:43.640 --> 01:56:47.399
you lost half of your intestine,
you were deployed in a military mission in

1677
01:56:47.479 --> 01:56:51.119
support of counter terror. I mean, all of these things right together.

1678
01:56:51.319 --> 01:56:55.760
It's just it's it's no question about
that. Out of curiosity and this might

1679
01:56:55.760 --> 01:56:57.880
be a topic you don't want to
talk about, and I totally understand.

1680
01:56:57.920 --> 01:57:02.960
But there's some only American like,
was there ever any repercussion for that?

1681
01:57:03.319 --> 01:57:09.319
Was? Well, you know,
no, I mean the guy honestly,

1682
01:57:10.239 --> 01:57:13.319
he did what he thought was right. I mean, I mean, I

1683
01:57:13.399 --> 01:57:17.279
never Here's the god Druss sold The
guy passed away a few years ago.

1684
01:57:17.359 --> 01:57:23.239
I visited him in the hospital here. He didn't think he was doing anything

1685
01:57:23.319 --> 01:57:26.960
wrong. It's just you have a
linguist who's not trained, who's not told

1686
01:57:27.000 --> 01:57:30.039
anything, and he got met just
by the wife of a terrorist, so

1687
01:57:30.119 --> 01:57:33.279
he freaks out. So I was
like, maybe if I was in his

1688
01:57:33.359 --> 01:57:36.840
position, most likely I would have
done the same. No, I don't

1689
01:57:36.880 --> 01:57:40.319
mean him, Oh, you mean
the other guy, the other one.

1690
01:57:40.600 --> 01:57:43.880
I don't know. I honestly,
I have no idea. I hope he

1691
01:57:43.920 --> 01:57:47.439
went to jail. Yeah, but
I don't know. There were over twelve

1692
01:57:47.760 --> 01:57:53.279
Somali Americans that joined al Shabab,
and I think most of them got killed

1693
01:57:53.279 --> 01:57:57.960
over there. There's even one event
where they did they pulled SS off a

1694
01:57:58.039 --> 01:58:02.399
vehicle in Addiction and the sc led
them back to the United States and the

1695
01:58:02.520 --> 01:58:05.760
FBI had to go check up on
that. So the guy, the guy

1696
01:58:05.800 --> 01:58:12.000
we have in chapter one in the
book, what we used to see a

1697
01:58:12.039 --> 01:58:15.000
lot of I don't want to bad
mouth any national mouth, we used to

1698
01:58:15.039 --> 01:58:20.199
see a lot of guys from the
Somali American community going to They would fly

1699
01:58:20.319 --> 01:58:25.079
to a neighboring country in Africa,
take buses or whatever, go to training

1700
01:58:25.119 --> 01:58:31.880
camps. During the Bush administration,
we had confirmed al Kada or Al Chabab

1701
01:58:32.079 --> 01:58:38.479
or Al Kada East Africa training camps
and we could not hit any of them

1702
01:58:38.800 --> 01:58:42.920
because the administration at that time said
we have to prove there are no Americans

1703
01:58:42.920 --> 01:58:45.920
there, and I was like,
the joke was like, okay, We'll

1704
01:58:45.000 --> 01:58:48.960
just have a guy stand in the
gate of the training camp and just passports.

1705
01:58:49.600 --> 01:58:53.720
So we were like, there is
no way you can validate that.

1706
01:58:53.880 --> 01:58:59.359
All we know is how can you
know foreshore? Honestly, all you know

1707
01:58:59.479 --> 01:59:02.239
is that all of these terrorist training
camps that you see on TV, like

1708
01:59:02.560 --> 01:59:05.479
the guys jumping monkey bars and all
these that was there. That was what

1709
01:59:05.640 --> 01:59:11.159
was going on, right, Like, it's a terrorist training camp. Eventually

1710
01:59:11.199 --> 01:59:14.760
they're gonna try to come and hit
us. So how do you stop that

1711
01:59:14.800 --> 01:59:17.560
from happening? You hit it,
Well, maybe there are Americans there.

1712
01:59:18.359 --> 01:59:21.079
Well, those Americans are going to
come back and kill you. Yeah,

1713
01:59:21.760 --> 01:59:28.800
soh so a lot of what a
lot of people didn't realize, the Obama

1714
01:59:28.840 --> 01:59:33.960
administration actually went extremely aggressive against those
guys. Again, I'm not a lawyer.

1715
01:59:34.319 --> 01:59:42.640
So we also took up took out
Adam Adam Gamal in Pakistan. No,

1716
01:59:43.319 --> 01:59:46.920
I hope not Adam. I know
who you're talking about. You know,

1717
01:59:47.159 --> 01:59:50.399
it's another and then that's okay,
I know who you're talking about.

1718
01:59:50.439 --> 01:59:56.520
But we took out a make and
Yemen, who's US born citizens. Yeah,

1719
01:59:57.000 --> 02:00:02.520
I imagine. You know, it's
very delicately issue because you know,

1720
02:00:02.600 --> 02:00:05.840
the US government can't you know,
just can't reignly put out hits on other

1721
02:00:05.880 --> 02:00:10.560
Americans or or whatever. Like there's
you know the rule of law and all

1722
02:00:10.560 --> 02:00:15.640
that stuff. But also I mean, hey, if you're if you're kicking

1723
02:00:15.680 --> 02:00:18.640
it with you're kicking it with terrorists. It ain't Disney, Yeah, exactly,

1724
02:00:18.680 --> 02:00:21.079
And honestly, I mean I'm not
a lawyer, so I'm not catching

1725
02:00:21.119 --> 02:00:25.159
that topic. Yeah, but all
I know is from my experience during that

1726
02:00:25.239 --> 02:00:30.600
time during the Obama administration, we
went after al Kada extremely art. Yeah.

1727
02:00:30.760 --> 02:00:35.359
So if anybody will say, again, from my small, humble opinion,

1728
02:00:36.600 --> 02:00:40.840
I think that Obama administration broke al
Kada's back. Yeah, they really

1729
02:00:40.880 --> 02:00:45.119
went aggressive. People can criticize them, people can say he's the drone president.

1730
02:00:45.199 --> 02:00:47.760
He's this. To me, I'm
like, okay, you know,

1731
02:00:47.760 --> 02:00:51.399
if you are a guy who's in
a training camp in the middle of nowhere

1732
02:00:51.439 --> 02:00:56.239
and Somalia, yeah, I was
almost Adam Gaddon. Yes, yes,

1733
02:00:56.319 --> 02:00:58.800
see one letter, two letters.
Yeah. Well, I feel I feel

1734
02:00:58.800 --> 02:01:03.640
like before he started his his you
know term, he locked in that Nobel

1735
02:01:03.680 --> 02:01:08.920
Peace price. So yeah, he
just he was like holder and watched this.

1736
02:01:09.960 --> 02:01:15.199
But again, I'm not going into
politics in this, but I look

1737
02:01:15.199 --> 02:01:20.800
at it as some people like precise
Trump for certain things. Sure, am

1738
02:01:20.840 --> 02:01:24.119
I a fan of Trump? No? Did he do good things as a

1739
02:01:24.119 --> 02:01:28.039
president? Yes? Am I a
fan of George Bush and everything he did,

1740
02:01:28.319 --> 02:01:33.319
I was really on board for the
Afghanistan thing, right, Iraq totally

1741
02:01:33.359 --> 02:01:38.079
off. Yeah, So I don't
think any president would be right in every

1742
02:01:38.079 --> 02:01:43.359
decision. Sure, but what I
saw personally during the Bush administration, we

1743
02:01:43.399 --> 02:01:49.680
had targets, target packages ready,
like you would not think any president,

1744
02:01:50.119 --> 02:01:56.760
especially a wartime president, especially a
president during the nine eleven he would not

1745
02:01:56.840 --> 02:01:59.800
go after them. He didn't,
which a lot of people are like,

1746
02:01:59.800 --> 02:02:01.920
well, he's just a cowboy.
He was going after everybody. He didn't.

1747
02:02:02.279 --> 02:02:08.079
Yeah, I'm sure he did it
for the right reasons and for for

1748
02:02:08.159 --> 02:02:12.359
him and for the country at that
time where we went after like a lot

1749
02:02:12.399 --> 02:02:15.800
of these terrorists training camps in Somalia, Obama went after it, and he's

1750
02:02:15.880 --> 02:02:18.439
like, Bush, you have a
target package approved, go for it.

1751
02:02:18.520 --> 02:02:24.199
Yeah. Bush also waffled hard on
like the Iranians, like Iranians working inside

1752
02:02:24.239 --> 02:02:27.000
a rock and stuff like that,
and it's like it was It's one of

1753
02:02:27.039 --> 02:02:31.039
those things that you just you're left
wondering at that level, who's advising him,

1754
02:02:31.079 --> 02:02:34.800
what information? Like why are these
decisions being made? But but yeah,

1755
02:02:34.840 --> 02:02:40.960
Obama, like I mean, his
administration tore like they went, they

1756
02:02:40.960 --> 02:02:46.720
went full speed honestly after al Qaeda. I think that that Bladen packed target

1757
02:02:46.760 --> 02:02:55.760
package. He takes credit for it
because knowing what I know about the target

1758
02:02:55.800 --> 02:02:58.960
package. Yeah, a lot of
presidents would have not taken the risk.

1759
02:02:59.159 --> 02:03:01.560
I mean this, this they've cost
him his presidency. This is what have

1760
02:03:01.640 --> 02:03:08.760
been Desert one again, the Iran
again. Yeah, but he he won

1761
02:03:08.840 --> 02:03:13.279
for it. And again I would
go and say, how many presidents,

1762
02:03:13.359 --> 02:03:16.800
including the current president Biden wasn't that
room and he said, yeah, we

1763
02:03:17.159 --> 02:03:21.560
talked to Mike Vickers on the show, and you know about how Obama told

1764
02:03:21.640 --> 02:03:26.000
them stop making up numbers as far
as like is it eighty percent? Is

1765
02:03:26.039 --> 02:03:28.680
it thirty percent? It's like it's
a flip of the coin. Yeah,

1766
02:03:28.760 --> 02:03:33.520
you know. Yeah, So again
I give the guy credit for going after

1767
02:03:33.600 --> 02:03:38.840
Okay, the full speed. Yeah. Another thing I wanted to ask you

1768
02:03:38.880 --> 02:03:42.399
about is you know, during your
time in the unit, you did a

1769
02:03:42.479 --> 02:03:46.640
number of singleton missions, and that's
like something very unique. Not many soldiers,

1770
02:03:46.720 --> 02:03:50.399
even in highly elite you know,
elite units, do that type of

1771
02:03:50.520 --> 02:03:54.960
mission. I was wondering if you
could tell us a little bit about your

1772
02:03:55.000 --> 02:03:59.760
experience and what's that? What that
what is that like to be behind enemy

1773
02:03:59.760 --> 02:04:03.680
line, so to speak? By
yourself, it's terrifying. I'm not gonna

1774
02:04:03.720 --> 02:04:06.039
lie to you. So if anybody
tells you like man, I was the

1775
02:04:06.199 --> 02:04:10.159
Superman, I was doing all of
these things, I'm not scared. No,

1776
02:04:10.199 --> 02:04:15.000
I was freaking terrified. Uh.
First one, when I was in

1777
02:04:15.119 --> 02:04:19.960
Rock and I went out of the
I went out of the green zone.

1778
02:04:20.239 --> 02:04:27.760
I'm taking a car out of the
green zone totally by myself. This was

1779
02:04:27.800 --> 02:04:33.920
a mission supported needed by not just
the military but to other government agencies.

1780
02:04:34.359 --> 02:04:42.479
They needed that, but it was
going after like internet cafes operated supporting sunny

1781
02:04:42.520 --> 02:04:45.640
extremes. And you're going out and
you're like, Okay, how is this

1782
02:04:45.760 --> 02:04:50.239
gonna be? And how is it
gonna be when I'm coming back into the

1783
02:04:50.239 --> 02:04:56.079
green zone because you have maybe four
THIDIA soldiers man the gate and they see

1784
02:04:56.079 --> 02:05:02.119
an Arab looking guy driving the local
car coming back. So that was that.

1785
02:05:02.119 --> 02:05:04.800
That was like the first one.
So you go out, You're kind

1786
02:05:04.800 --> 02:05:09.359
of like, okay, how's how's
this going to be? What am I

1787
02:05:09.399 --> 02:05:12.800
gonna say? Where do I park
in the cord that I'm driving? How

1788
02:05:12.840 --> 02:05:15.279
am I going to approach? And
then a lot of people will tell you

1789
02:05:15.279 --> 02:05:17.119
like you just make sure you have
all of these plans. Well, you

1790
02:05:17.159 --> 02:05:20.119
can plan, right, but you're
still out there. I'm still out there

1791
02:05:20.159 --> 02:05:26.000
in your own and I'm not sure
how many you cannot. You can if

1792
02:05:26.039 --> 02:05:30.439
what to the wazoo, and you're
not gonna cover all the scenarios, right.

1793
02:05:30.880 --> 02:05:35.279
So I'm lucky. I can think
of my own feet fast sometimes.

1794
02:05:36.000 --> 02:05:42.520
So I go out the first time, and I have a backpack. I

1795
02:05:42.600 --> 02:05:46.760
park far away. I had a
glock twenty six, which is a smaller

1796
02:05:46.760 --> 02:05:50.760
one in my back. I have
a concealable body arm, and I'm wearing

1797
02:05:50.760 --> 02:05:57.079
a shirt kind of like loose so
you cannot see it. And I go

1798
02:05:57.159 --> 02:06:00.119
to this internet cafe. Well,
I walk around for a bit. I

1799
02:06:00.119 --> 02:06:02.000
grab a showorm. I'm like,
let me just get something to eat.

1800
02:06:03.199 --> 02:06:06.880
You getta be local. So I
grab a sha wormer and I'm walking around

1801
02:06:06.920 --> 02:06:10.680
and I go to this internet cafe. The owner of the Internet cafe is

1802
02:06:10.760 --> 02:06:14.720
soon the extremist, and that's the
guy that we go in after. Yeah,

1803
02:06:15.520 --> 02:06:16.680
So I'm like, okay, let
me see how I can walk in

1804
02:06:16.720 --> 02:06:20.920
there. So I walk in there
speaking Arabic, but I spoke Egyptian.

1805
02:06:23.159 --> 02:06:28.039
At that time, they were building
the first GSM networking a rock and it

1806
02:06:28.119 --> 02:06:31.359
was built to buy an Egyptian company, so they were Egyptian engineers there.

1807
02:06:31.880 --> 02:06:35.000
I did not think that. I'm
not gonna I'm not gonna take credit and

1808
02:06:35.000 --> 02:06:39.199
tell you what I thought that far
ahead. No, I go there and

1809
02:06:39.239 --> 02:06:42.199
I'm not thinking like but I talked
to the guy. I'm like, hey,

1810
02:06:42.239 --> 02:06:45.800
I want to use the Internet.
And the guy's like, huh,

1811
02:06:45.159 --> 02:06:48.960
you're from Egypt. Do you work
for the phone company? And I'm like

1812
02:06:49.039 --> 02:06:54.359
yes. And the guy's like,
we don't have good signal here, and

1813
02:06:54.399 --> 02:06:58.960
he grabs one of these old Nokia
phones and I'm like, you know what,

1814
02:07:00.079 --> 02:07:02.600
that's why I'm doing this survey to
figure out where are the areas they

1815
02:07:02.640 --> 02:07:06.399
need cell towers. And I take
my equipment out of my backpack and I

1816
02:07:06.399 --> 02:07:12.199
put it in the desk next to
the guy, and I'm like, that's

1817
02:07:12.199 --> 02:07:15.560
why I have this equipment to check
where we didn't have signals. And now

1818
02:07:15.600 --> 02:07:19.880
my collection equipment is sitting on the
desk with the guy. Then I start

1819
02:07:19.920 --> 02:07:25.000
feeling comfortable. Then I start telling
the guy what happened to We're not gonna

1820
02:07:25.039 --> 02:07:28.359
drink tea. That guy orders tea. We sit down, we talk,

1821
02:07:29.000 --> 02:07:31.760
I take my stuff I supposed to
something to the desktop. The guy has

1822
02:07:31.800 --> 02:07:35.479
there. I do what I supposed
to as I'm talking with him, very

1823
02:07:36.840 --> 02:07:42.079
normal, finish that, go back. So I did this a few times

1824
02:07:42.159 --> 02:07:48.520
after that. Then okay, it's
a war zone. I can call you

1825
02:07:48.560 --> 02:07:53.279
know, I can have a squadron
of Delta coming and saving my ass.

1826
02:07:53.319 --> 02:07:56.560
If these guys get nab me,
then it gets a lot worse when you

1827
02:07:56.600 --> 02:08:00.520
are deploying to a regular area where
you cannot have a glove, you cannot

1828
02:08:00.560 --> 02:08:03.840
have a body arm, or you
cannot have any of those things the levant

1829
02:08:03.920 --> 02:08:07.640
areas. For example, I would
go out by myself and do things by

1830
02:08:07.640 --> 02:08:13.239
myself, and when you are there, you're like and sometimes in those areas

1831
02:08:13.279 --> 02:08:18.000
to like to go back to Iraq, you are if the bad guys from

1832
02:08:18.199 --> 02:08:22.800
like if a terrorist organization or the
bad guys catch you, you're gonna get

1833
02:08:22.800 --> 02:08:24.880
double whammy because they're gonna be like, you're not just an American soldier,

1834
02:08:24.920 --> 02:08:28.520
an American soldier and an Arab.
Then I don't think they're gonna kill me

1835
02:08:28.520 --> 02:08:31.960
easily. They'll torture the funk out
of me. And then at the same

1836
02:08:31.960 --> 02:08:35.399
time, you're going back to the
base and you have again a fourth Tide

1837
02:08:35.520 --> 02:08:37.800
guy standing there and he sees this
Arab looking guy and he's like, he

1838
02:08:37.800 --> 02:08:41.439
could shoot me anytime. So every
time you're going out, it's the same

1839
02:08:41.439 --> 02:08:45.079
thing with the embassy. The marine
could have shop. So every time you're

1840
02:08:45.079 --> 02:08:48.920
doing something us, it's dangerous and
you have those things. And I always

1841
02:08:48.960 --> 02:08:52.199
had those things. And he used
to have fucking dreams like about me getting

1842
02:08:52.479 --> 02:08:56.319
getting kidnapped or captured and how am
I gonna be tortured? Yeah, And

1843
02:08:56.359 --> 02:09:01.560
I'm like, do I know enough
verses for the Kuran to convince these guys

1844
02:09:01.640 --> 02:09:05.159
they should spare me? So you
do all of this, it's in your

1845
02:09:05.159 --> 02:09:07.760
head. It's in your mind all
and it was in my mind all the

1846
02:09:07.760 --> 02:09:09.359
way. It's in my mind till
now, honestly. And that's a lot

1847
02:09:09.359 --> 02:09:13.760
of people like, well, this
guy said his height, his way,

1848
02:09:15.039 --> 02:09:18.159
he gave enough information about himself to
be using a pseudonym. And I'm like,

1849
02:09:18.399 --> 02:09:22.079
well, you're fucking walking around the
street looking at every five to one

1850
02:09:22.119 --> 02:09:24.640
brown guy saying that might be him. So I'm like, guys, use

1851
02:09:24.720 --> 02:09:28.800
some freaking common sense. But I
put it in the book. I was

1852
02:09:28.840 --> 02:09:31.760
like, you know, the guys
who worked with me, none of them

1853
02:09:31.840 --> 02:09:35.479
had any doubt in his mind it's
me. I'm not hiding. I'm not

1854
02:09:35.600 --> 02:09:37.600
hiding from you. I'm staying here
with you guys. I'm not hiding from

1855
02:09:37.640 --> 02:09:41.159
you, I'm hid them from A
guy might be walking down the street here

1856
02:09:41.479 --> 02:09:45.479
and he's like, hey, that's
the studio where these guys are recording,

1857
02:09:46.319 --> 02:09:50.880
or I'm hiding from I travel a
lot. I'm protecting my family. I

1858
02:09:50.880 --> 02:09:54.279
have two daughters and a wife.
My wife worked for the government for fifteen

1859
02:09:54.359 --> 02:09:56.960
sixteen years, so as a family, I wanted to make sure that were

1860
02:09:58.000 --> 02:10:03.319
protected. At the same time,
with social media, now you can connect

1861
02:10:03.319 --> 02:10:09.199
the bots and people can connect me, reel me to to somebody who knows

1862
02:10:09.239 --> 02:10:13.840
you, then to you. Then
it's a sixth degree of operation. It's

1863
02:10:13.880 --> 02:10:18.680
not that hard. But yeah,
those singles, those singleton missions from protecting

1864
02:10:18.880 --> 02:10:28.079
an ambassador in West Africa that she
had death threats against her, to doing

1865
02:10:28.359 --> 02:10:35.279
going after the guys who were in
charge of the foreign fighter pipeline going to

1866
02:10:35.119 --> 02:10:41.399
Iraq, to going after bad guys
who were going to training camps and the

1867
02:10:41.399 --> 02:10:46.560
golf countries like into Yemen or Somalia
or the Horn of Africa area, or

1868
02:10:46.680 --> 02:10:50.600
going to West Africa and coming from
West Africa. So there was some singleton

1869
02:10:50.640 --> 02:10:58.680
missions where either I was going totally
by myself from the beginning, including going

1870
02:10:58.720 --> 02:11:03.319
to an North African country, and
I flew for fucking ever to get there,

1871
02:11:03.359 --> 02:11:07.159
and I was taking a diplomatic pouch
like a un pro carry with me,

1872
02:11:07.760 --> 02:11:11.199
and you go through all of these
things, and if anybody who went

1873
02:11:11.279 --> 02:11:13.960
through that, it's pinning the ass
because you go through airports and I'm here,

1874
02:11:15.319 --> 02:11:18.880
I'm flying through France with this diplomatic
pouch. They're not supposed to go

1875
02:11:20.039 --> 02:11:24.520
take X rayed. So here in
the US they take you through, they

1876
02:11:24.520 --> 02:11:28.079
take it through the away from the
X ray well. In France, the

1877
02:11:28.119 --> 02:11:33.479
guys doing security are different than the
guys who are in charge of this the

1878
02:11:33.279 --> 02:11:37.880
metal detector. So the police said, gets in charge of the metal detector.

1879
02:11:37.960 --> 02:11:43.279
So they set me aside till they
bring the police, which took about

1880
02:11:43.279 --> 02:11:46.199
fifteen twenty minutes. So I'm sitting
aside and the non pro carry the pouch

1881
02:11:46.439 --> 02:11:50.319
is an orange bag. Obviously I
put in a different bag, but the

1882
02:11:50.359 --> 02:11:52.680
police they want to see the seal, so I have to take the orange

1883
02:11:52.680 --> 02:11:58.039
bag out. So here I am
sitting on the side with a big ass

1884
02:11:58.079 --> 02:12:01.560
orange bag, waiting for the police
to come and deactivate the X ray machine

1885
02:12:03.119 --> 02:12:05.760
and the metal detector so they can
take me through. So I sat for

1886
02:12:05.760 --> 02:12:09.319
about fifteen twenty minutes. This is
a single timission. What I have in

1887
02:12:09.399 --> 02:12:15.439
the in the in the diplomatic pouch
is equipment I'm going to use in addition

1888
02:12:15.479 --> 02:12:18.279
to weapons. So here you are, you're going through that. In France,

1889
02:12:20.119 --> 02:12:24.680
they come to stop everything, and
then I go through, and for

1890
02:12:24.800 --> 02:12:28.159
the diplomatic pouches, you cannot put
it in a check and luggage. You

1891
02:12:28.239 --> 02:12:30.399
have to keep it with you and
you cannot fucking sleep, by the way,

1892
02:12:30.439 --> 02:12:33.399
so it's a horrible thing. Then
I'm going to check in finally,

1893
02:12:35.119 --> 02:12:39.600
and then some of the people were
going through the x ray with me are

1894
02:12:39.600 --> 02:12:43.439
in the same flight as me,
so they looking at this Arab looking guy

1895
02:12:43.760 --> 02:12:48.359
with this orange bag that they stop
this metal detector for him. This is

1896
02:12:48.399 --> 02:12:50.560
something weird that people don't see.
So I'm getting all of these nasty looks.

1897
02:12:52.680 --> 02:12:56.000
And then the ladies is like,
hey, by the way, your

1898
02:12:56.039 --> 02:13:01.000
pouch doesn't fit in the overhead.
In the over head compartment, you have

1899
02:13:01.039 --> 02:13:05.039
to buy a seat. So I
have to buy a business class seat for

1900
02:13:05.079 --> 02:13:09.760
these back to sit next to me. I go all the way I land,

1901
02:13:11.439 --> 02:13:15.640
I was supposed to link up with
the unit coming from Germany. The

1902
02:13:15.760 --> 02:13:18.760
unit was coming from Germany. They
brought some maps and some things that the

1903
02:13:18.800 --> 02:13:22.119
local the host country did not approve. The shipped them back. So by

1904
02:13:22.119 --> 02:13:26.199
the time I went through all of
these things and I landed there mission is

1905
02:13:26.199 --> 02:13:35.560
canceled. It seems so weird to
me or lazy on the part of somebody.

1906
02:13:35.640 --> 02:13:39.159
And I don't know if it's the
unit or the planners or the leadership

1907
02:13:39.399 --> 02:13:45.199
or wherever, that the end user, the operator, the person who is

1908
02:13:45.239 --> 02:13:52.279
traveling an alias and everything else is
carrying anything official with them, and that

1909
02:13:52.319 --> 02:13:58.319
there aren't that there aren't couriers that
are you know, farrying that stuff for

1910
02:13:58.880 --> 02:14:01.920
like from meet up or drop someplace
else. Yeah. No, usually actually

1911
02:14:01.960 --> 02:14:05.800
you pouch those things. Yeah.
But this time, because I was in

1912
02:14:05.840 --> 02:14:09.760
that country and I did a mission
there for two weeks, and as I

1913
02:14:09.760 --> 02:14:13.800
was getting ready to leave, the
chief station in that country, who was

1914
02:14:13.840 --> 02:14:16.520
a very anti jaysock in the beginning, who was like, this guy is

1915
02:14:16.560 --> 02:14:20.680
the right guy for the mission.
I have another mission coming up I wanted.

1916
02:14:20.239 --> 02:14:26.359
So he sent a cable like basically
requesting an operative or an operator with

1917
02:14:26.439 --> 02:14:33.079
the following criterion. And when I
came back it was a Wednesday, and

1918
02:14:33.439 --> 02:14:35.199
the unit command met me and they
were like, hey, what did you

1919
02:14:35.239 --> 02:14:39.560
do? I thought I did something
work and they were like this chief station

1920
02:14:39.680 --> 02:14:41.760
wrote a cable. The only thing
he left out is your name, but

1921
02:14:41.800 --> 02:14:46.600
we cannot send anybody other than you. And literally I had just I landed.

1922
02:14:46.039 --> 02:14:48.319
Yeah, so I think I landed
on a Wednesday. I had to

1923
02:14:48.319 --> 02:14:52.439
fly out again on a Friday.
So this because it was a very short

1924
02:14:52.760 --> 02:14:54.479
turnaround, I had to carry this
stick, I see. But when I

1925
02:14:54.560 --> 02:14:58.760
landed there because the unit I was
going to link up with, they were

1926
02:14:58.760 --> 02:15:00.760
going to do something and I was
going to be part of it for that

1927
02:15:00.880 --> 02:15:03.800
mission. Again, this is that
you are a singleton that you're gonna be

1928
02:15:03.880 --> 02:15:09.079
with another group who don't know what
you do, who gonna look at me

1929
02:15:09.279 --> 02:15:13.600
like I'm a guy who speaks with
an accent. You look different, but

1930
02:15:13.800 --> 02:15:16.720
you are told you are part of
us. So those are the challenges that

1931
02:15:16.760 --> 02:15:20.039
I had to go through all the
time because it's so compartmentalized. Exactly.

1932
02:15:20.239 --> 02:15:22.640
Yeah, And honestly, like I
said, and after I bought it,

1933
02:15:22.640 --> 02:15:24.359
after we did all these things,
they're like, yeah, man, mission

1934
02:15:24.399 --> 02:15:28.760
is canceled because the other group just
get sent back. You can spend two

1935
02:15:28.840 --> 02:15:31.479
days and then you can fly back. So then they pouched everything. I

1936
02:15:31.520 --> 02:15:33.960
think, Uh, you know,
it's interesting because you talk about this.

1937
02:15:35.039 --> 02:15:37.119
We've talked about a little bit about
on the show, but you know,

1938
02:15:37.159 --> 02:15:41.600
you talk about sort of the fear
of being around the enemy, but you've

1939
02:15:41.600 --> 02:15:46.319
also talked about like crossing friendly lines. And I don't know if civilian is

1940
02:15:46.760 --> 02:15:54.119
realized just how dangerous that is for
anybody who is, you know, who's

1941
02:15:54.199 --> 02:15:58.039
wearing civilian clothes. I mean,
it was not super uncommon for guys in

1942
02:15:58.119 --> 02:16:03.720
Jay Socker or other elements to get
their cars shot out from underneath them by

1943
02:16:03.239 --> 02:16:09.039
an eighteen year old eleven Bravo on
a two forty, even when they're like

1944
02:16:09.079 --> 02:16:11.560
showing their American flags. You know, the little it happened, it happened

1945
02:16:11.600 --> 02:16:15.880
doesn't to create as me and a
group of Delta guys who were coming back

1946
02:16:15.880 --> 02:16:18.640
into the base and together we got
shot at. We were lucky. The

1947
02:16:18.640 --> 02:16:22.000
guy couldn't fucking shoot. Yeah,
so he shot on top of our cars.

1948
02:16:22.600 --> 02:16:26.079
But that's that's that's so that's the
shooting. Then me coming back from

1949
02:16:26.119 --> 02:16:31.279
missions being pulled in the secondary and
yeah, court, yeah again, if

1950
02:16:31.319 --> 02:16:35.079
I wear When I was wearing my
uniform walking to Starbucks, I have twenty

1951
02:16:35.079 --> 02:16:39.280
people want to pay for my coffee. But coming back from a mission after

1952
02:16:39.600 --> 02:16:46.000
being there for five months actually either
being part of bad guys taking out protecting

1953
02:16:46.040 --> 02:16:50.440
the country. Do then a TSA
agent pulled me aside, not TA immigration

1954
02:16:50.520 --> 02:16:56.479
agent pulled me aside to ask me
if I was born in the US,

1955
02:16:56.520 --> 02:17:00.120
wy, do I have an accent? And what I was doing? You

1956
02:17:00.120 --> 02:17:03.280
get asked all of these questions and
then you have to get out, get

1957
02:17:03.280 --> 02:17:05.920
out of jail free card. Sure, but any guy in our community,

1958
02:17:05.959 --> 02:17:09.479
if you use it, you fail. Yeah right right? You break cover

1959
02:17:09.600 --> 02:17:16.159
right ba cover right? So yeah, talk to us then about you know,

1960
02:17:16.559 --> 02:17:18.200
you left the unit at a certain
point, you had like a few

1961
02:17:18.200 --> 02:17:26.000
more assignments in the army before you
retired, right yep, So I left

1962
02:17:26.000 --> 02:17:31.319
the unit in twenty eleven. I
retired in twenty sixteen. I stayed in

1963
02:17:31.360 --> 02:17:35.840
that DACAR system, which is the
closed army system. It's where it protects

1964
02:17:35.840 --> 02:17:41.280
the identities of example, who are
inclined. So for my I spent twenty

1965
02:17:41.280 --> 02:17:46.159
one years in the military, sixteen
fifteen sixteen years. Out of those,

1966
02:17:46.399 --> 02:17:50.559
my records are classified redactive C plus
frights. So when I get ask for

1967
02:17:50.639 --> 02:17:54.440
my HR record, my NCRS,
my reports, you're gonna find this guy

1968
02:17:54.479 --> 02:18:00.559
scored this munch in PT and then
the rest of the stuff he did blank

1969
02:18:01.319 --> 02:18:07.280
and was successful in blank and deployed
to blank to accomplish blank. So you

1970
02:18:07.319 --> 02:18:11.959
cannot use this in anything. Then
after that, I want another DACAR system

1971
02:18:11.440 --> 02:18:16.840
unit. I spent some time overseas. We're not going to say where that

1972
02:18:16.000 --> 02:18:20.760
was. More again another sensitive thing. But then I did the retards of

1973
02:18:20.840 --> 02:18:26.280
twenty sixteen, so you can do
the math twenty eleven to twenty sixteen.

1974
02:18:26.000 --> 02:18:31.239
I did five years outside of the
unit doing other things that we didn't say

1975
02:18:31.239 --> 02:18:33.760
anything about in the book because I
think it would have been redacted, and

1976
02:18:33.879 --> 02:18:39.959
it would it would have invited another
organization to go through the book and readact

1977
02:18:39.000 --> 02:18:46.200
moreshit. So I intentionally will left
it out. Can you tell us what

1978
02:18:46.239 --> 02:18:50.000
the review process was, what was
like for you with this? So of

1979
02:18:50.079 --> 02:18:54.680
course I can if you have time
send it. So the review process,

1980
02:18:54.920 --> 02:18:58.319
so I wanted to make sure I'm
doing it right. From day one,

1981
02:19:00.280 --> 02:19:03.959
I did without saying anybody's name.
But I did contact people from the organization

1982
02:19:05.639 --> 02:19:09.920
to say, guys, I'm writing
a book. We can the book will

1983
02:19:09.959 --> 02:19:13.440
go through, will go through the
legal process. I don't want to say

1984
02:19:13.479 --> 02:19:18.680
what they said, what I said
back and forth, but we ended up

1985
02:19:18.719 --> 02:19:20.959
going. So I was like,
I don't want to go to jail.

1986
02:19:20.959 --> 02:19:26.360
I'm the first guy who was an
operational status in the unit to write a

1987
02:19:26.360 --> 02:19:31.399
book. There are other books we've
written about the unit. So I checked

1988
02:19:31.399 --> 02:19:35.559
with my co author, I checked
with my agent. I said, hey,

1989
02:19:35.559 --> 02:19:39.200
guys, I wanted to have a
lawyer. They were like, Mark

1990
02:19:39.280 --> 02:19:45.159
Zid, that's your guy. So
somebody did an introduction. Contacted Mark.

1991
02:19:45.239 --> 02:19:48.600
I said, this is what Mark
is, a super smart guy, great

1992
02:19:48.680 --> 02:19:52.520
lawyer in the area. He's like
the best in the country in the area.

1993
02:19:52.799 --> 02:19:56.879
Marks like, don't tell me anything
about the book. Don't I don't

1994
02:19:56.920 --> 02:19:58.840
want to know. I cannot know, but this is the process. So

1995
02:20:00.079 --> 02:20:03.920
more contacted dud and he said,
Hey, I have a guy who's writing

1996
02:20:03.959 --> 02:20:05.639
a who wrote a book, and
this is the manuscript. This is what

1997
02:20:05.719 --> 02:20:11.120
we have. Mark didn't have the
manuscript obviously. I wrote the book on

1998
02:20:11.159 --> 02:20:15.639
a standalone laptop and I told I
told the organization actually said, if you

1999
02:20:15.680 --> 02:20:18.639
guys want the laptop, you can
have it. So a laptop was never

2000
02:20:18.639 --> 02:20:26.200
connected to an internet and none of
that. Dud you told Mark well email

2001
02:20:26.239 --> 02:20:31.159
us the book and Mark was like, fuck, no, I'm not gonna

2002
02:20:31.280 --> 02:20:35.600
allow my client to email you a
book that you're get it deem classified after

2003
02:20:35.639 --> 02:20:39.840
that, so we double wrapped the
book. We met the dud guys in

2004
02:20:39.879 --> 02:20:46.760
the Pentagon parking lot. We gave
him a double wrap manuscript and we said,

2005
02:20:46.799 --> 02:20:50.600
okay, we're waiting for you.
Therese emails going back and forth between

2006
02:20:50.600 --> 02:20:58.920
Mark and their lawyer. So that
was August of twenty one. That's when

2007
02:20:58.959 --> 02:21:05.559
we gave him the book. Till
like June of twenty twenty two, we

2008
02:21:05.639 --> 02:21:09.360
haven't heard anything like no, not
yet, No, we don't know.

2009
02:21:09.399 --> 02:21:13.040
Then I was like, hey Mark, if we don't have any other options,

2010
02:21:13.120 --> 02:21:16.159
let's just suit them. Yeah.
So Mark was like, Okay,

2011
02:21:16.159 --> 02:21:20.000
we have a publication date, blah
blah blah. We have all the right

2012
02:21:20.000 --> 02:21:22.680
things. So Mark too, get
to course when we sawed them. Then

2013
02:21:22.680 --> 02:21:26.120
the judge said okay, let's let's
give them a timeline and go back and

2014
02:21:26.159 --> 02:21:31.520
forth. So we went back and
forth till September of twenty twenty two,

2015
02:21:31.040 --> 02:21:33.879
So that's a year and a month. This is when we got and this

2016
02:21:33.959 --> 02:21:37.760
is by a lawsuit, by all
of these things that to push them to

2017
02:21:37.799 --> 02:21:43.639
get us the book back. With
their final verdict. We got the book

2018
02:21:43.639 --> 02:21:48.600
in September, so there was a
lot of redaction. So Mark, being

2019
02:21:48.600 --> 02:21:52.600
a lawyer, he's like, hey, just continue with the lawsuit. They

2020
02:21:52.680 --> 02:21:56.319
get to tell us why those things
are classified. And I said, no,

2021
02:21:56.360 --> 02:21:58.440
I don't want to do that.
I want to sit with them and

2022
02:21:58.559 --> 02:22:03.920
we can talk their security guys and
go over it. So an agreement happened.

2023
02:22:03.159 --> 02:22:07.040
So I met them in September of
twenty twenty two. We sat for

2024
02:22:07.040 --> 02:22:13.159
about four hours. We went over
each page, each picture, each redaction,

2025
02:22:13.000 --> 02:22:22.159
the title of the book, what
the actually the citations in the bottom.

2026
02:22:22.360 --> 02:22:26.159
Some stuff got redacted, so we
went over all of these things.

2027
02:22:26.200 --> 02:22:30.680
So we went over every page.
We reach an agreement on everything. Some

2028
02:22:30.719 --> 02:22:33.120
stuff. I said, you know
what, guys, you're absolutely right.

2029
02:22:33.840 --> 02:22:37.479
I overlooked that. Some stuff I
don't think it's classified, but I did

2030
02:22:37.520 --> 02:22:45.239
respect their opinion, so I took
it out. Some stuff I re rewrooted

2031
02:22:45.799 --> 02:22:48.000
the way exactly how they told me, so I had Then after we finished

2032
02:22:48.000 --> 02:22:52.239
all of these things. I went
back rewrote everything that we have they wanted,

2033
02:22:52.520 --> 02:22:58.440
We sent it back to them for
approval. It got approved with some

2034
02:22:58.479 --> 02:23:03.079
stuff got to can now just totally
get taken out. Yeah, some stuff

2035
02:23:03.120 --> 02:23:07.079
got taken out. And some people
when they read and they're like, Okay,

2036
02:23:07.239 --> 02:23:09.920
this is the order here doesn't make
any sense. But again, it's

2037
02:23:11.079 --> 02:23:15.680
either violating or and this is like
to protect readly the guys who are still

2038
02:23:15.719 --> 02:23:18.920
doing the mission. So it's either
either violating and telling you a really good

2039
02:23:18.959 --> 02:23:24.399
story or telling you a balanced story
without violating any any How, Has the

2040
02:23:24.479 --> 02:23:26.559
unit responded to the publication of the
book, as you said, You're really

2041
02:23:26.559 --> 02:23:33.239
the first Operator Unit member to write
a memoir like this, so that's a

2042
02:23:33.319 --> 02:23:41.520
very good question. Officially, the
unit did not respond to anything. They

2043
02:23:41.520 --> 02:23:48.479
did not. I did not hear
anything from anybody. I'm assuming like unofficially,

2044
02:23:48.520 --> 02:23:50.959
you guys reached out to me.
Oh, I appreciated that, and

2045
02:23:52.239 --> 02:23:54.440
guys understood like, I didn't do
it for glory because I didn't use my

2046
02:23:54.559 --> 02:24:00.159
name. I didn't do it for
money because I'm Doneathan and the guy the

2047
02:24:00.239 --> 02:24:03.920
organization I'm donating money to they know. So the proceeds came from the book

2048
02:24:05.000 --> 02:24:09.920
so far went on an organization supporting
veterans, not all of it. We

2049
02:24:09.040 --> 02:24:16.159
have other another immigrant supporting group that
we put the money legal immigrants, so

2050
02:24:16.200 --> 02:24:22.600
people don't get freaked out. But
we as far as like you know,

2051
02:24:22.719 --> 02:24:28.840
an official respond from the unit.
I haven't gotten anything. No, I

2052
02:24:28.920 --> 02:24:33.159
don't know like I was. I
wasn't one of the guys like who's pissing

2053
02:24:33.159 --> 02:24:35.600
people off in the unit. So
if people decide like aman, fuck that

2054
02:24:35.680 --> 02:24:39.520
guy, I don't think it will
go very well because again I spent my

2055
02:24:39.600 --> 02:24:45.319
time there. I served with honor, I respected everybody. I never said

2056
02:24:45.319 --> 02:24:48.079
anything bad about anybody. Yeah,
I mean when you know, when the

2057
02:24:48.120 --> 02:24:52.479
book was first coming out, you
know, asking around about about you,

2058
02:24:52.479 --> 02:24:56.600
you know, getting the Hall file. You know we heard superstar, you

2059
02:24:56.600 --> 02:25:01.799
know, you know, like we
heard you had a great Hall file.

2060
02:25:03.479 --> 02:25:05.879
You know, well, thank you. I'm sure some guys don't like me,

2061
02:25:07.200 --> 02:25:09.760
and but this is what I was
saying before. So there are guys,

2062
02:25:09.760 --> 02:25:11.399
I mean, no matter what,
there are people who will disagree with

2063
02:25:11.479 --> 02:25:20.040
you. You went through your book, you could write you could actually buy

2064
02:25:20.040 --> 02:25:22.760
somebody a cup of coffee, and
if he doesn't like you, he's gonna

2065
02:25:22.760 --> 02:25:24.879
be like that fucking coffee he gave
me was too hot to burn my tongue.

2066
02:25:24.920 --> 02:25:30.200
Yeah, And if somebody likes you, you could shoot their dog and

2067
02:25:30.319 --> 02:25:33.159
be like, hey man, Jack
had a bad day. He shot my

2068
02:25:33.200 --> 02:25:35.920
dog. But I know where he's
coming from. So and then you have

2069
02:25:35.959 --> 02:25:39.840
people in between. So if you're
gonna try to please everybody, yeah,

2070
02:25:39.920 --> 02:25:46.360
sell ice cream. Abraham Lincoln said, if I read every thing somebody wrote

2071
02:25:46.399 --> 02:25:48.440
about me, I'm not gonna have
time to govern. So I don't read

2072
02:25:48.440 --> 02:25:52.600
any Yeah. So I've learned from
those things, like, I'm not gonna

2073
02:25:52.159 --> 02:25:56.440
try to please anybody. And the
unit knows. The guys in the unit

2074
02:25:56.440 --> 02:26:01.159
who know me, they know that
I did not do this to harm anybody,

2075
02:26:01.239 --> 02:26:05.200
and I definitely did not do this
to cash in. Yeah, did

2076
02:26:05.280 --> 02:26:09.879
we have questions for we do?
I just want to cover one other really

2077
02:26:09.920 --> 02:26:16.920
important kind of concept of this book. You are an immigrant, and you

2078
02:26:16.959 --> 02:26:22.120
know you came to the military to
recognize is initially you for your talents and

2079
02:26:22.159 --> 02:26:26.600
your abilities, and then all of
a sudden, you know, you end

2080
02:26:26.719 --> 02:26:31.079
up in this unit where you are
one of the few people who can actually

2081
02:26:31.159 --> 02:26:35.920
do what you can do because of
you know how you look, because of

2082
02:26:35.959 --> 02:26:41.559
your native language ability. What do
you what do you think about how the

2083
02:26:41.600 --> 02:26:45.440
military handles that now, Like I
know some of these units now they're like,

2084
02:26:45.479 --> 02:26:48.159
oh, we'll just get guys here
and we'll teach them the language.

2085
02:26:48.440 --> 02:26:52.319
Like do you think the military has
had they gotten better? Have they gotten

2086
02:26:52.319 --> 02:26:58.760
worse? So I've been like out
of the military now for about eight years,

2087
02:27:00.159 --> 02:27:03.239
so I'm not sure, but I'm
not seeing. I still see and

2088
02:27:03.280 --> 02:27:07.120
I think it's most psychological. It's
like people feel comfortable with people who look

2089
02:27:07.200 --> 02:27:11.440
like them. So I still feel
are we doing a good job? There

2090
02:27:11.479 --> 02:27:16.159
is always room for improvement, There
is always that we can actually improve what

2091
02:27:16.200 --> 02:27:24.760
we're doing. There is There was
a program back then called Stripes for Skills.

2092
02:27:24.280 --> 02:27:28.479
So Stripes for Skills is going to
somebody who speaks a language to bring

2093
02:27:28.520 --> 02:27:33.200
him in after basic two months after
basic training, two months after they graduate,

2094
02:27:33.280 --> 02:27:37.239
I think they if I from them. And that was basically to target

2095
02:27:37.920 --> 02:27:43.399
certain languages that were very short from
the military. So the goal was to

2096
02:27:43.479 --> 02:27:48.680
target at that time was Arabic and
Korean and Chinese I think, and the

2097
02:27:48.799 --> 02:27:52.840
ended double a lot of Spanish speakers. So again the military did not I

2098
02:27:52.840 --> 02:27:56.559
think still the military doesn't do a
good job just from me talking to people

2099
02:27:56.600 --> 02:28:00.319
in the immigrant community. When I
tell some like till now, there are

2100
02:28:00.399 --> 02:28:05.639
guys who served in the military,
immigrants, especially Arab Americans, who are

2101
02:28:05.680 --> 02:28:09.840
ashamed or afraid not a shamed,
sorry, afraid to tell their own community

2102
02:28:09.879 --> 02:28:11.959
they were in the military because they'd
be like, you are a sellout or

2103
02:28:13.000 --> 02:28:15.520
this year there, And I'm like, well, these guys served his country.

2104
02:28:15.840 --> 02:28:18.360
So there are guys who reached out
to me from that community who are

2105
02:28:18.399 --> 02:28:22.639
like, we are extremely proud of
you writing a book. You spoke what

2106
02:28:22.719 --> 02:28:26.520
we wanted to say you and given
these guys a voice. And I think

2107
02:28:26.639 --> 02:28:30.840
the more we do. And so
the military has a recruiting issue, I'm

2108
02:28:30.879 --> 02:28:33.280
like, and what the fuck are
you doing about it? But yeah,

2109
02:28:33.319 --> 02:28:37.000
we didn't meet our numbers because we're
going to recruit in the same from the

2110
02:28:37.040 --> 02:28:39.719
same high schools, in the same
communities, in the same cities, in

2111
02:28:39.799 --> 02:28:43.319
the same towns, recruit the same
people. Well, you have a whole

2112
02:28:45.479 --> 02:28:50.959
legal immigrant community that you're not tapping
into. And if you do, it's

2113
02:28:50.000 --> 02:28:54.959
not just you're gonna have. And
again, diversity here is not free launch.

2114
02:28:54.360 --> 02:28:58.239
Diversity here is like giving everybody the
same opportunity whether he's green, brown,

2115
02:28:58.319 --> 02:29:05.399
or black, and you would benefit
the lot from them because I didn't

2116
02:29:05.399 --> 02:29:09.040
think you have an award in Alabama. Between US and Alabama. I mean,

2117
02:29:09.079 --> 02:29:13.360
it's so if I'm recruiting people from
Alabama to spy in Alabama, you're

2118
02:29:13.360 --> 02:29:18.120
gonna lose. You might wanna build
that more. So I think we still

2119
02:29:18.159 --> 02:29:26.200
have a bit more to go.
I was in every unit I served in,

2120
02:29:26.319 --> 02:29:28.879
I was the only guy who looked
like me. Again, I used

2121
02:29:28.920 --> 02:29:33.639
to hang out with the Hispanic guys
because sometimes it's safe for me because I'm

2122
02:29:33.680 --> 02:29:35.760
like, Okay, I don't want
people to know im Arab, And honestly,

2123
02:29:35.799 --> 02:29:41.000
I was like, it's just safer
to tell them I'm Hispanic, and

2124
02:29:41.079 --> 02:29:43.799
the accent I have made me like, oh yeah, it's a guy speak

2125
02:29:43.799 --> 02:29:50.879
Spanish blas panel. I'm like,
Pikito, just keep going so that those

2126
02:29:50.920 --> 02:29:54.399
are those are the things. But
I think you need to have a good

2127
02:29:54.879 --> 02:29:58.319
environment for people like me to feel
comfortable joining, and you need to do

2128
02:29:58.360 --> 02:30:03.040
a better job. And it's also
I mean, I hate to like make

2129
02:30:03.120 --> 02:30:07.360
it so trivial, but it's also
an important pr message to American people who

2130
02:30:07.719 --> 02:30:13.479
have a tendency to belief that a
tendency to believe that, you know,

2131
02:30:13.520 --> 02:30:18.719
cultures are monolithic and that that uh, you know, people from different areas

2132
02:30:18.719 --> 02:30:22.760
are only going to be loyal to
those areas or to those things, that

2133
02:30:22.760 --> 02:30:28.319
that there can be a blend of
cultures and that there are lots of people

2134
02:30:28.680 --> 02:30:31.280
and and maybe not not necessarily like
from the US, but like from the

2135
02:30:31.280 --> 02:30:37.239
Philippines, we have a huge history
of you know, you know across you

2136
02:30:37.280 --> 02:30:41.000
know, serving you know, Filipino
serving in the Navy and things like that,

2137
02:30:41.000 --> 02:30:43.120
that that it's not it's not the
issue that people think it is.

2138
02:30:43.440 --> 02:30:46.280
I agree with that. I mean
to the point honestly, speaking of the

2139
02:30:46.200 --> 02:30:50.280
we have a lot of Filipino veterans, to the point that VA opened the

2140
02:30:50.280 --> 02:30:54.600
hospital in the Philippines. Yeah,
that's how that's how many Filippino we have

2141
02:30:54.280 --> 02:31:00.000
during the Like the Japanese American community
they serve in the like we have all

2142
02:31:00.040 --> 02:31:03.600
all these things. And again to
that, it's a lot of I said,

2143
02:31:03.879 --> 02:31:07.120
I travel a lot, and it's
extremely interesting when I'm flying and I

2144
02:31:07.399 --> 02:31:13.559
have like an older No I don't
mean anything against anybody, but an older

2145
02:31:13.559 --> 02:31:16.760
white guy sitting next to me and
he's having a conversation and you know,

2146
02:31:16.760 --> 02:31:20.600
and initially he's like, where are
you from? What you do? And

2147
02:31:20.760 --> 02:31:26.479
I see that reluctance in the discussions
and then yeah, I'm retired from the

2148
02:31:26.479 --> 02:31:30.879
military. He's like, which military, military? What did you do?

2149
02:31:31.600 --> 02:31:35.840
And then when then the conversation changes. But that shock I get in people's

2150
02:31:35.840 --> 02:31:41.920
faces that when I say I'm retired
to this army guy, Uh, it

2151
02:31:43.079 --> 02:31:46.319
just it doesn't even even overseas when
I tell people, but it doesn't click.

2152
02:31:46.760 --> 02:31:52.040
It's like because they're not expecting.
They're not expecting that, which worked

2153
02:31:52.040 --> 02:31:56.760
extremely well for me when I was
in by. I didn't have to tell

2154
02:31:56.760 --> 02:32:01.360
anything. They're expecting a guy that
looks like John Cena or you know,

2155
02:32:01.440 --> 02:32:05.239
one of the you know, the
recruitment poster exactly exactly. My neighbor when

2156
02:32:05.239 --> 02:32:11.799
I was living in the Maryland Northern
Virginia area was a retired Air Force guy.

2157
02:32:11.479 --> 02:32:16.920
When they were doing my five year
update for my clearance, they went

2158
02:32:16.959 --> 02:32:20.959
to ask him about me and the
guy the whole time, I'm a guy

2159
02:32:20.959 --> 02:32:24.040
who don't go to work in certain
times. I'm living in a decent house.

2160
02:32:24.120 --> 02:32:28.760
I go to work sometimes just like
you Jack now and wearing shorts and

2161
02:32:28.760 --> 02:32:31.559
flip flops. So that guy in
his mind and I look hispanic, I

2162
02:32:31.600 --> 02:32:35.840
must be a drug dealer. I
swear he thought I was a drug dealer.

2163
02:32:35.319 --> 02:32:39.120
And he saw me in my backyard
the one time smoking hookah. He's

2164
02:32:39.159 --> 02:32:41.079
like, that's it. He's a
drug dealer. He's a drunkie. So

2165
02:32:41.120 --> 02:32:45.440
when they were doing my five year
update and they asked him and they told

2166
02:32:45.440 --> 02:32:48.319
me that they were like, your
neighbor had no clue. They actually worked

2167
02:32:48.360 --> 02:32:52.239
for the government and that's why he
was avoiding it. And I'm like,

2168
02:32:52.079 --> 02:32:56.799
it worked, It does help me. It did help me sometimes, but

2169
02:32:56.879 --> 02:32:58.239
at a certain time too, And
that's why I read the book. I'm

2170
02:32:58.239 --> 02:33:01.920
like, people need to know.
Yeah, there are people who look like

2171
02:33:01.959 --> 02:33:07.079
me, ye who served, Yes, who actually were part of the solution,

2172
02:33:07.239 --> 02:33:11.360
not the problem. Right. Let
me get you the questions real quick

2173
02:33:11.360 --> 02:33:15.239
here. H m Corbyn. Thank
you very much, way to wrap true

2174
02:33:15.280 --> 02:33:18.280
American values out there, and best
wishes on your work addressing operator syndrome.

2175
02:33:18.879 --> 02:33:22.719
Thank you for becoming an American citizen. Also shout out to Blaze for brothers

2176
02:33:22.760 --> 02:33:28.879
love my knife. Uh, do
you want to say anything about operator syndrome?

2177
02:33:28.319 --> 02:33:35.719
Yes, So a lot of people
actually PTSD is it became like,

2178
02:33:35.760 --> 02:33:37.760
you know, people are okay with
it, people are not okay with it.

2179
02:33:39.520 --> 02:33:46.399
Uh. People try to blame guys
who are apply him for VA for

2180
02:33:46.559 --> 02:33:50.239
PTSD. But the first time I've
heard about operator syndrome was like a few

2181
02:33:50.280 --> 02:33:52.319
years ago, like maybe two years
ago, and I was talking to somebody

2182
02:33:52.360 --> 02:33:56.559
and he explained it to me better. It is like, you know,

2183
02:33:56.680 --> 02:33:58.600
guys like you are. Both of
you guys were rangers. So when you

2184
02:33:58.639 --> 02:34:03.959
are an in that environment, your
adronine is just kicking all right, you

2185
02:34:03.040 --> 02:34:07.120
are you are You basically are a
guy who's driving on the fifty year all

2186
02:34:07.159 --> 02:34:11.600
the time, twenty four to seven, and you feel if you get your

2187
02:34:11.639 --> 02:34:15.200
foot of the gas you're gonna get
killed. So you do that for ten

2188
02:34:15.239 --> 02:34:18.399
years, twenty years, fifteen years, whatever that five years. Then you

2189
02:34:18.440 --> 02:34:22.280
get out, but your brain doesn't
operate like, hey, get your foot

2190
02:34:22.280 --> 02:34:26.200
of the gas. There's some research
that it like burns out your endo crinsist

2191
02:34:26.399 --> 02:34:28.719
exactly. Yeah, so you have
your foot on the gas, still going.

2192
02:34:30.280 --> 02:34:33.360
And then to add to that,
a guy who came from our community,

2193
02:34:33.920 --> 02:34:37.760
especially if you have a clearance,
it used to be like until now,

2194
02:34:37.799 --> 02:34:41.239
I'm sure like guys would like don't
be fucking weak man. Yeah,

2195
02:34:41.280 --> 02:34:43.159
you know, just be strong,
right. So what I want people to

2196
02:34:43.479 --> 02:34:46.920
know is like, it's not and
I think again, the operator syndrome is

2197
02:34:48.959 --> 02:34:52.079
the guys who are going. And
that could be a guy who's in the

2198
02:34:52.120 --> 02:34:54.959
eighty second Airborne Division, could be
in First it could be an INDI unit.

2199
02:34:56.000 --> 02:34:58.399
But when you are at war for
twenty years, whether you are deploying

2200
02:34:58.440 --> 02:35:03.840
in the regular or unit or a
special operation unit, you are an alert

2201
02:35:03.840 --> 02:35:05.879
twenty four to seven. And then
when you retire, they expect you to

2202
02:35:05.879 --> 02:35:11.280
flip that switch. Yeah, hey
man, switches off. Now I'm good.

2203
02:35:11.719 --> 02:35:13.479
Well I've been looking for that switch
for the last eight years. Yeah,

2204
02:35:13.520 --> 02:35:18.120
and find it. There is no
switch. Yeah, coming to you

2205
02:35:18.159 --> 02:35:22.879
guys. So I drove around in
the morning and I checked the place and

2206
02:35:22.920 --> 02:35:26.200
I'm like, here's the door,
here's this. That's why I'm yeah,

2207
02:35:26.559 --> 02:35:28.120
droving you in the morning. Yeah, so you get it. You look

2208
02:35:28.120 --> 02:35:33.319
at all of these things because you
always on alert. Yeah. I think

2209
02:35:33.239 --> 02:35:37.639
the military have to do a better
job on or do some research on teaching

2210
02:35:37.719 --> 02:35:41.760
us where to find the switch to
flip it off, because when it's on,

2211
02:35:43.680 --> 02:35:46.799
it's exhausting. It is very exhausting. And it's interesting too because you

2212
02:35:46.840 --> 02:35:50.360
know, talk about post traumatic stress. Like for years, I would have

2213
02:35:50.360 --> 02:35:54.799
told you I didn't have postumatic stress
because there's no intrusive thoughts, there's no

2214
02:35:54.920 --> 02:35:58.680
occurring event that I can't get out
of my mind. And that's I think

2215
02:35:58.680 --> 02:36:03.479
what people traditionally think of when they
think of post traumatic stress, right,

2216
02:36:03.520 --> 02:36:07.799
is that is the event, you
know, the thing that I just can't

2217
02:36:07.799 --> 02:36:13.079
get rid of. But operator syndrome
explains you know, along with all the

2218
02:36:13.079 --> 02:36:18.799
blast injuries and TBI all that stuff, but it but it explains a lot

2219
02:36:18.920 --> 02:36:24.040
more. How Yeah, you may
not have like recurring memories or intrusive thoughts

2220
02:36:24.079 --> 02:36:30.319
or anything else like that, but
the toll that it takes over time and

2221
02:36:30.399 --> 02:36:33.920
puts you in that same sort of
state and you feel tired because like again

2222
02:36:33.000 --> 02:36:39.760
it's you were a guy who was
running who was printing for the time they

2223
02:36:39.840 --> 02:36:43.399
were in the military was printing.
So you at a guy who's printing.

2224
02:36:43.399 --> 02:36:45.319
You are a guy who comes back
from a deployment and you get us print

2225
02:36:45.360 --> 02:36:48.000
again to a deployment. Yeah,
you are a guy that one time I

2226
02:36:48.040 --> 02:36:52.959
came back from a deployment and without
mentioning the guy's name. We had a

2227
02:36:54.079 --> 02:36:56.920
troop commander who a lot of guys
didn't think very high of him. The

2228
02:36:58.000 --> 02:37:03.319
reason he was redeploying me then that
day because I'm still packed, He's like,

2229
02:37:03.360 --> 02:37:05.399
the guy did not unpack yet,
And I'm like, that's not a

2230
02:37:05.399 --> 02:37:09.440
freaking good reason to deploy. But
so you are a guy, and then

2231
02:37:11.559 --> 02:37:13.479
hey, man, you're going in
this mission beause we're gonna catch you a

2232
02:37:13.479 --> 02:37:16.280
lot in this time, so you're
not gonna say no to that. Then

2233
02:37:16.319 --> 02:37:20.040
you deploy and deployment, so again
you are a guy on the fifth gear

2234
02:37:20.559 --> 02:37:24.360
the whole time. And then you're
tired, but you don't know why your

2235
02:37:24.399 --> 02:37:31.680
brain is going. You can't sleep
well, you don't know why they kept

2236
02:37:31.040 --> 02:37:35.920
giving you mephic When they're giving you, they give you all these different medicine.

2237
02:37:35.079 --> 02:37:41.559
When you deploy, they're giving you
tons of vaccines, your cases of

2238
02:37:41.600 --> 02:37:48.840
red bull whatever, whatever it gets
you going. They used to give us

2239
02:37:48.920 --> 02:37:52.559
ambient when we're flying, so when
we land there we are on that were

2240
02:37:52.639 --> 02:37:58.399
just hitting the ground running. So
you do that for years and you're special,

2241
02:37:58.000 --> 02:38:03.360
yeah verse us. And on top
of that though, are also your

2242
02:38:03.360 --> 02:38:05.840
own internal feelings, the guilt if
you're not there with you guys. The

2243
02:38:07.280 --> 02:38:09.600
sense of duty that keeps you driving
forward, like a lot of it is

2244
02:38:09.600 --> 02:38:13.120
also like self inflicted. Correct it's
self inflat But that's what I was saying.

2245
02:38:13.239 --> 02:38:18.200
So he's special by being in the
game and then all of a sudden,

2246
02:38:18.239 --> 02:38:22.399
you're no longer in the game.
Yeah, but your brain still is.

2247
02:38:22.479 --> 02:38:26.159
Yeah it still is. Yeah,
you didn't process the I'm out of

2248
02:38:26.200 --> 02:38:28.479
the game. Yeah. So I
really hope they can find that switch and

2249
02:38:28.520 --> 02:38:31.680
tell us where it's at and turn
it off. That's fantastic, man,

2250
02:38:31.719 --> 02:38:39.559
Thank you sumber five EDC guy,
thank you very much. Thanks for the

2251
02:38:39.600 --> 02:38:43.959
awesome guest. Can you ask him
how difficult it was for him if he

2252
02:38:43.079 --> 02:38:48.959
had to integrate with big army,
Navy, etc. On certain missions without

2253
02:38:48.000 --> 02:38:52.559
telling them who he really is.
So I was very lucky. I never

2254
02:38:52.639 --> 02:38:56.799
had to integrate with a big army
other than in Iraq. Actually, we

2255
02:38:56.879 --> 02:39:03.079
went and I think Fourth Idea were
there. A singing unit from Fourth Idea

2256
02:39:03.120 --> 02:39:07.000
were there, So we went try
to basically coordinate with them, and then

2257
02:39:07.040 --> 02:39:09.079
I was trying to tell them how
to use the equipment, how to do

2258
02:39:09.120 --> 02:39:15.079
that without telling them who we are. But we had this weird looking badge

2259
02:39:15.680 --> 02:39:18.840
that gave us access to different areas, so they knew what were special.

2260
02:39:22.399 --> 02:39:28.520
All of them were Russian speakers in
Iraq, so we were like, okay,

2261
02:39:28.520 --> 02:39:30.879
guys, you might need an Arabic
speaker with you. So we were

2262
02:39:30.879 --> 02:39:33.479
helping them. But we never really
had to do that very in a lot

2263
02:39:33.520 --> 02:39:39.399
of details. There was some stuff
with the navy. Luckily, when we

2264
02:39:39.440 --> 02:39:46.079
went we were there as civilians because
navy is very We went on an aircraft

2265
02:39:46.120 --> 02:39:50.079
carrier, so we can eat actually
with normal people. We didn't have to

2266
02:39:50.120 --> 02:39:58.920
eat in different areas. But usually
those commanders at those units, they know

2267
02:40:00.000 --> 02:40:03.159
who we are and what we're doing
to the facility of things. Yeah,

2268
02:40:03.200 --> 02:40:07.200
but they integrate them with big army. Luckily I didn't have to do that

2269
02:40:07.239 --> 02:40:20.239
in a lot of details. Uh, Simper five, I'm actually uh not

2270
02:40:20.639 --> 02:40:24.639
the question. I'm not going to
ask them the question. And the only

2271
02:40:24.680 --> 02:40:31.120
reason I'm not going to is,
uh, well, it's just it's just

2272
02:40:31.200 --> 02:40:37.639
for you know, because whether you
say yes or no, the question is

2273
02:40:37.680 --> 02:40:41.399
whether you know somebody, and whether
you say yes or no, like I

2274
02:40:41.760 --> 02:40:46.440
you know, well, we'll we'll
leave you know, connections or non non

2275
02:40:46.479 --> 02:40:50.399
connections out there in the ether.
But thank you for the donation, and

2276
02:40:50.600 --> 02:40:58.120
if you have another question, we're
happy to ask that. Let me see,

2277
02:40:58.559 --> 02:41:07.479
h do you was there anything on
Patreon? I think that is it?

2278
02:41:07.559 --> 02:41:16.600
Then? Yeah, that's it.
So everybody, uh, please buy

2279
02:41:16.639 --> 02:41:22.040
and read this book. Buy it
for friends, buy it for enemies,

2280
02:41:22.760 --> 02:41:26.079
buy it for everybody you know.
You know it's it's great. And even

2281
02:41:26.079 --> 02:41:30.159
if you're not somebody who is.
I mean, if you're watching the show,

2282
02:41:30.159 --> 02:41:33.680
then you're probably into you know,
military special operations. But even if

2283
02:41:33.680 --> 02:41:37.000
you're not, it's a it's really
a fantastic personal story. Thank you.

2284
02:41:39.280 --> 02:41:45.280
I wanted to thank you guys,
so I listened to your podcast as I

2285
02:41:45.479 --> 02:41:48.479
got to know you guys before I
came. So it's I feel it's unfair

2286
02:41:48.159 --> 02:41:52.760
you guys read my books by did
my ricon. I did my homework,

2287
02:41:54.639 --> 02:42:01.600
uh, reading, reading, listening
to your book actually just you going through

2288
02:42:01.639 --> 02:42:05.159
what you went through at first of
all. I mean, like for somebody

2289
02:42:05.159 --> 02:42:11.000
who's like twenty twenty one years old
in charge of like a ranger team and

2290
02:42:11.760 --> 02:42:15.959
doing an ambush and all of these
things, and I'm like, holy shit,

2291
02:42:16.159 --> 02:42:18.360
a little surreal looking back on it. Yeah, And I'm like,

2292
02:42:18.479 --> 02:42:20.079
man, I joined army when I
was twenty five, and I think if

2293
02:42:20.079 --> 02:42:24.440
I was in your place, I
would have like I would have totally failed.

2294
02:42:24.520 --> 02:42:26.719
And I'm like, it's not just
the guy talked to like he's like,

2295
02:42:26.719 --> 02:42:30.959
Okay, no, I did this
and I went through it, and

2296
02:42:31.079 --> 02:42:33.000
now you teach him. People are
you talking about it? And you wrote

2297
02:42:33.000 --> 02:42:35.879
it in your book and you talk
about it, So it means a lot

2298
02:42:35.879 --> 02:42:39.719
almost like a lot of people more
than you think, Yeah, thank you.

2299
02:42:39.760 --> 02:42:43.559
No. I mean, when you
write something, you know, you

2300
02:42:43.600 --> 02:42:48.399
hope it connects with people, and
it's very interesting to see how it connects

2301
02:42:48.399 --> 02:42:50.440
with different people in different ways.
You know, Like my book, half

2302
02:42:50.440 --> 02:42:54.920
of it is my military time,
half of it is working in journalism,

2303
02:42:54.959 --> 02:42:58.639
conflict journalism, and some people,
sometimes the military people actually really relate to

2304
02:42:58.639 --> 02:43:03.239
the second and half the journalism stuff
more than the military or vice versa.

2305
02:43:03.319 --> 02:43:05.159
So it's very funny to see,
you know, and I'm sure you've experienced

2306
02:43:05.159 --> 02:43:09.559
it too with your book that you
know. Yeah, when you write something

2307
02:43:09.760 --> 02:43:11.799
and put it out there, different
people connect with it in different ways,

2308
02:43:11.959 --> 02:43:13.799
right yeah. And and the other
thing, I mean, you put in

2309
02:43:13.840 --> 02:43:18.239
your life out there and a lot
of people don't really is like when you

2310
02:43:18.319 --> 02:43:22.760
write something when you write them memoir. You actually telling people, look at

2311
02:43:22.799 --> 02:43:26.600
me, I'm standing naked. Yes, I'm seriously, I mean I'm standing

2312
02:43:26.639 --> 02:43:30.959
naked. You know. You know
I was the guy in Egypt who couldn't

2313
02:43:31.000 --> 02:43:33.079
buy a black shoes, and a
lot of people don't want to a lot

2314
02:43:33.120 --> 02:43:37.120
of people don't want to admit like
those struggles they went through. But you're

2315
02:43:37.120 --> 02:43:41.079
doing these things to hopefully open the
door for other people to say, you

2316
02:43:41.120 --> 02:43:45.680
know, this poor kid came from
Egypt and he was able to retire as

2317
02:43:45.719 --> 02:43:48.799
a sergeant major in one of the
most elite units. Then I can do

2318
02:43:48.840 --> 02:43:52.360
it too. Yeah, that's what. And then I think I talked about

2319
02:43:52.360 --> 02:43:54.559
this too. I was in Jersey
where I got robbed and somebody hit me

2320
02:43:54.639 --> 02:43:58.000
on my fucking head with a beer
bottle, and I'm like, man,

2321
02:43:58.159 --> 02:44:01.239
Dave, I got something in common
with you. Yeah, sure, I'm

2322
02:44:01.280 --> 02:44:05.680
like, but you get hit with
a brick more than me and I didn't

2323
02:44:05.719 --> 02:44:07.879
pass out. Well, you're stronger
than I am. No, I got

2324
02:44:07.920 --> 02:44:11.280
just for me. It was just
a beer bottle. So I was like,

2325
02:44:11.360 --> 02:44:13.760
huh, But you don't know,
honestly how much we have in common

2326
02:44:15.399 --> 02:44:20.000
until you start talking to each other
and open them up and having this conversation.

2327
02:44:20.120 --> 02:44:24.040
So people like, for a lot
of the military guys or young guys,

2328
02:44:24.040 --> 02:44:26.280
I'm like, just open up.
You realize how much you have in

2329
02:44:26.280 --> 02:44:30.840
common, more than you think,
and then we are stronger together. Then

2330
02:44:31.200 --> 02:44:33.120
just let's just you know what,
when I see you in the street,

2331
02:44:33.520 --> 02:44:35.360
you know, you look different than
me, so I'm not gonna talk to

2332
02:44:35.399 --> 02:44:37.319
you. And I look different than
you, so you're not going to talk

2333
02:44:37.360 --> 02:44:41.920
to me. So those are the
things and I do appreciate like the opportunity

2334
02:44:41.959 --> 02:44:46.760
to be here on that welcome back
anytime, and when you just tell people

2335
02:44:46.760 --> 02:44:48.399
out there. Please check out our
Patreon if you haven't already, there's a

2336
02:44:48.440 --> 02:44:54.000
link down in the description, and
if you subscribe to us on the Patreon,

2337
02:44:54.079 --> 02:44:56.159
you get all these episodes add free
and you support the channel. We

2338
02:44:56.200 --> 02:45:01.840
really appreciate And Adam's book. The
link is in the description to Adam's book

2339
02:45:01.920 --> 02:45:05.639
down below as well The Unit by
Adam Gamal with Kelly Kennedy. I hope

2340
02:45:05.680 --> 02:45:09.040
you guys will go and check out
the book. And on Friday, we're

2341
02:45:09.079 --> 02:45:13.159
going to have a pre recorded episode
with Command Sergeant Major Mike Adams, retired

2342
02:45:13.200 --> 02:45:18.200
Special Forces guy, did all kinds
of cool stuff through his career. So

2343
02:45:18.600 --> 02:45:24.239
you'll see that on Friday, Adam, anything else you want to put out

2344
02:45:24.239 --> 02:45:26.920
there, anything you want to shout
out before we roll out today. I

2345
02:45:26.920 --> 02:45:31.040
want to thank Kelly Kennedy and I
want to thank the publisher. So Kelly

2346
02:45:31.079 --> 02:45:37.200
Kennedy, I met her through somebody
else who was asking me to self publish,

2347
02:45:37.760 --> 02:45:39.600
and she and I like when we
talked, and we talked and I

2348
02:45:39.639 --> 02:45:43.399
was like, so, she's the
one who introduced me to the agent.

2349
02:45:43.120 --> 02:45:48.639
The agent found the publisher. The
publisher took a gamble on me. This

2350
02:45:48.719 --> 02:45:52.959
is again it's the first of a
kind book. So I want to thank

2351
02:45:54.000 --> 02:45:58.879
them for that. And then I
have received tons of messages from people who

2352
02:45:58.879 --> 02:46:05.399
are very supportive, who encouraged me. One of them is here. So

2353
02:46:05.440 --> 02:46:07.239
but I did. I did receive
a lot of things from like good things

2354
02:46:07.280 --> 02:46:11.399
from people. Obviously, I received
a lot of hate messages as well,

2355
02:46:11.959 --> 02:46:18.000
which is okay. Yeah, I
got I got some some good hate messages,

2356
02:46:18.520 --> 02:46:24.399
but nasty grams, people criticizing people
calling me a liar, which is

2357
02:46:24.440 --> 02:46:26.520
fine. Yeah. I knew exactly
what I was writing the book for.

2358
02:46:28.639 --> 02:46:31.440
I was not. I was writing
the book for a special, specific kind

2359
02:46:31.479 --> 02:46:39.120
of audience. Hopefully that the message
came across. To balance between classified information

2360
02:46:39.200 --> 02:46:45.239
and telling the story is not easy. So it's like playing that being in

2361
02:46:45.280 --> 02:46:50.520
that fine area in the middle.
But honestly, I wanted to thank everybody.

2362
02:46:50.680 --> 02:46:54.719
I wanted to thank unit leadership,
current and former leadership that who did

2363
02:46:54.760 --> 02:46:58.559
not shut the unit the book down. Yeah. I'm not sure if they

2364
02:46:58.559 --> 02:47:01.120
tried or not, but they didn't. You know, you mentioned the hate

2365
02:47:01.120 --> 02:47:03.280
mail. I also want to tell
people, when you read the book,

2366
02:47:03.440 --> 02:47:07.319
please leave a comment on Amazon or
whereverview buy it. One of the things

2367
02:47:07.319 --> 02:47:13.120
I noticed was that the ratings are
lower than what the book deserves, and

2368
02:47:13.159 --> 02:47:20.280
it's because people want a they want
an in depth look into this special unit,

2369
02:47:20.479 --> 02:47:24.680
which and to which you're not able
to do, and they don't understand

2370
02:47:24.719 --> 02:47:30.159
this is this is a memoir,
this is about you, and you know,

2371
02:47:30.440 --> 02:47:33.600
yeah, hopefully people respect that too
and understand it. Yeah. And

2372
02:47:33.600 --> 02:47:37.079
people who understand that, yeah,
they understand, like it's an honorable thing.

2373
02:47:37.239 --> 02:47:39.479
Yes for me, But I could
have you know, if I wanted

2374
02:47:39.520 --> 02:47:43.639
to, I could have just wrote
everything without going to publication, exactly put

2375
02:47:43.639 --> 02:47:46.559
it out there and then harm everybody
who's always and now shut the unit down

2376
02:47:46.639 --> 02:47:50.280
most likely, so those that's not
the intent, but the intent is like

2377
02:47:50.319 --> 02:47:56.959
to give you a glimpse of what's
out there. In addition to, the

2378
02:47:56.120 --> 02:48:00.120
book is not political, right,
so some people is like, well,

2379
02:48:00.159 --> 02:48:05.200
this guy criticized uh, that Trump
administration, but did not criticize the Biden

2380
02:48:05.239 --> 02:48:09.680
administration. The book has been in
a fucking review forever. So if the

2381
02:48:09.719 --> 02:48:16.040
book actually I am personally when I
talk to people, I do criticize the

2382
02:48:16.040 --> 02:48:18.799
the Biden administration for how we pulled
out of Afghanistan. I don't think it

2383
02:48:18.840 --> 02:48:24.000
was the right way. But the
book was in a pre publication review,

2384
02:48:24.639 --> 02:48:30.520
so it's not I'm not with or
against any pories. Obviously, I'm more

2385
02:48:30.559 --> 02:48:33.239
into the left side than the right
thing. If if you guys buy this

2386
02:48:33.399 --> 02:48:37.959
on Kendall, Adam said he will
update the book with each administration and his

2387
02:48:39.079 --> 02:48:43.239
critique. I'm just kidding. That's
not true. Yeah so but yeah,

2388
02:48:43.319 --> 02:48:46.879
so so people reading getting the book
looking at you know, I'm kicking every

2389
02:48:46.920 --> 02:48:50.319
door, I'm killing everybody, you
know, every brown guy we've met in

2390
02:48:50.360 --> 02:48:56.479
the way. That's not that's not
it. The book is more of a

2391
02:48:56.719 --> 02:48:58.639
let's let's work together and let's look
at have a glimpse of that, and

2392
02:48:58.719 --> 02:49:03.840
let's look at the different communities and
how we can do better together. It's

2393
02:49:03.920 --> 02:49:09.360
it's interesting too because, like you
talking about your experiences overseas, it really

2394
02:49:09.399 --> 02:49:13.479
calling. It calls back what when
we had Jack Divine on the show and

2395
02:49:13.600 --> 02:49:20.159
him saying that US intelligence needs a
new path, you know, a new

2396
02:49:20.520 --> 02:49:26.040
sort of class when it comes to
you, just especially with technology watters.

2397
02:49:26.360 --> 02:49:31.120
You can't just have a bunch of
white people working out of the embassy and

2398
02:49:31.280 --> 02:49:35.159
expect to gather the type of intelligence
that you need these days. Yeah,

2399
02:49:35.159 --> 02:49:39.760
I mean with the world is changing. Yeah, and if people don't realize

2400
02:49:39.760 --> 02:49:41.680
that then they are dinosaurs. Then
they're gonna go away. Yeah, but

2401
02:49:41.719 --> 02:49:46.440
the world is changing and we need
to be moving with how the world is

2402
02:49:46.520 --> 02:49:50.799
changing. Just an anecdote that I
used to say when I was in the

2403
02:49:50.840 --> 02:49:54.280
military. We have all of these
military manuals on how to do everything,

2404
02:49:54.319 --> 02:49:56.760
Yeah, how to tell you to
shoes, how to how to write a

2405
02:49:56.799 --> 02:50:00.959
memoir, and what I used to
tell people. I'm like, think the

2406
02:50:01.040 --> 02:50:03.079
nine to eleven guys wrote a memo
told in saying, hey we're gonna go

2407
02:50:03.120 --> 02:50:07.239
do a nine to eleven. I'm
been Louding grabbed the memo and then fold

2408
02:50:07.280 --> 02:50:09.600
it in half, and he's like, your signature block is not in the

2409
02:50:09.639 --> 02:50:16.280
center right, and you're not five
spaces between exactly. So I'm like,

2410
02:50:16.680 --> 02:50:18.639
that's how they are operating. And
if you want to defeat the enemy,

2411
02:50:20.040 --> 02:50:22.559
you gotta understand the enemy's language and
what I mean by language. He was

2412
02:50:22.639 --> 02:50:28.760
like, in general, not culture
exactly. So that's how we're gonna win.

2413
02:50:28.840 --> 02:50:31.959
But if we're gonna if we're gonna
stay divided and say, you know

2414
02:50:31.040 --> 02:50:35.479
what, you wear shorts and I
don't like shorts and I'm not gonna deploy

2415
02:50:35.559 --> 02:50:39.680
with you because you wear shorts,
then we're not gonna win. So if

2416
02:50:39.680 --> 02:50:41.879
we wanted to win, we're gotta
We're gotta do a lot. But I'm

2417
02:50:41.879 --> 02:50:46.280
gonna get Greek lizard camo shorts for
the entire army over there. But thank

2418
02:50:46.280 --> 02:50:50.840
you, guys, thank you,
thank you, Adam. Uh So,

2419
02:50:50.440 --> 02:50:56.559
guys will be back Friday with Sergeant
Major Mike Adams and Adam. Thank you

2420
02:50:56.559 --> 02:50:58.079
again for coming by. Thank you. Hope to see you again soon, definitely