WEBVTT 1 00:00:30.600 --> 00:00:34.359 Welcome back to the path when Chili for part two of our series on the 2 00:00:34.439 --> 00:00:38.200 murder of Stanley Grezick, Robin, do you want to catch everyone up on 3 00:00:38.280 --> 00:00:41.880 what we talked about in our previous episode. Well, this case took place 4 00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:45.799 in the town of Rome, New York in nineteen seventy six. Our victim 5 00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:48.600 was Stanley Greesi, who was fifty nine years old and was living with his 6 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:52.679 fifty four year old wife. Esther. Seemed like an ordinary law abiding citizen 7 00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:56.399 who had a number of children and grandchildren and siblings. But then one night 8 00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:59.600 at home, invasion took place at his residence. And we only really have 9 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:03.200 Esther's account, but apparently two mass men broke into the house and tied her 10 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:07.480 up, and because she was deaf and had her hearing a knocked out, 11 00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:10.239 she was unable to figure out here a lot of what was going on in 12 00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:12.599 the place. But she said that she was bound for about an hour until 13 00:01:12.680 --> 00:01:17.079 he played dead, and by the time she was able to break herself free, 14 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:22.280 she discovered that Stanley was murdered. Originally, the investigators in the Medical 15 00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:26.000 Examiner were inclined to believe that Stanley was stabbed to death, but while performing 16 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:30.840 a search of the home, Stanley's son discovered a shell casing, and once 17 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:33.680 he gave it to a detective, the shell casing was never seen again, 18 00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:38.159 and the Greasick family agreed to have Stanley zoomed, and sure enough, it 19 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:41.920 revealed that he was not actually stabbed to death, but was actually shot through 20 00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:45.799 the heart. So for some reason, the police investigation was heavily botched. 21 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:49.799 The investigation remained quiet for over a decade, but by the end of the 22 00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:53.359 nineteen eighties or a new set of detectives on the case and a number of 23 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:59.040 witnesses came forward who started giving interesting accounts which alleged that a local bar owner 24 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:01.879 may have hired two men from out of town to perform a professional hit on 25 00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:06.959 Stanley and home invasion, and that's why he wound up getting murdered. There 26 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:09.759 was speculation that the two men had ransacked the house and were searching for something, 27 00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:14.560 but they couldn't really tell if they found it or if Stanley even had 28 00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:16.479 what they were looking for, And it seemed like the key to the case 29 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:22.599 was Stanley's deceased brother, Peter Grizik, who died a few months before Stanley 30 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:25.080 was killed. Peter had held the liquor license at a local bar, and 31 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:30.199 prior to his death, he had had a closed to our conversation with Stanley 32 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:35.439 in which he apparently said something so bad that Stanley was left completely shaken and 33 00:02:35.479 --> 00:02:38.319 would not speak with Peter again until he passed away. But he never told 34 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:43.000 his other family members what exactly it was. Peter said, they feature the 35 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:46.639 case on Unsawd Mysteries in nineteen ninety. They had a pretty good idea who 36 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:50.240 the perpetrator and the hit men were, but just did not have the evidence 37 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:53.240 to make an arrest, and we're hoping that someone might come forward with a 38 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:57.280 new information. But this never came to fruition, and this case officially remains 39 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:01.879 unsolved over forty six years later. So now we're going to discuss the original 40 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:07.800 investigation into this murder, which was quite troublesome. Let's start with a discrepancy 41 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:14.680 involving the exact cause of Stanley's death. The original autopsy report stated that he 42 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:17.879 was stabbed to death until his son Martin, discovered a shell casing on the 43 00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:23.120 dining room floor. This compelled the family to have Stanley's body exhumed, and 44 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:29.080 they discovered a twenty five caliber bullet in his chest. Now, if police 45 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:31.719 were attempting a cover up, then I can understand why they would push forward 46 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:36.840 the narrative that Stanley was stabbed, because if no one knows about the bullet 47 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:39.039 in his body, then there's less chance of it being matched up to the 48 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:44.400 murder weapon. But if that's the case, why was the shell casing ever 49 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:47.719 left behind in the greasicomb? To begin with? Martin was able to find 50 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:52.719 it by simply moving the dining room table and notice that it was resting on 51 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:55.319 top of the rug. He said, it wasn't concealed at all, and 52 00:03:55.520 --> 00:04:00.719 clearly visible if you looked hard enough. Remember, the police kept the Greasy 53 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:03.479 family out of the home the previous night while they performed an extensive search, 54 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:09.400 so it's hard to imagine them missing that shellcasing. That's the one thing which 55 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:14.159 makes me wonder if the investigators were just sloppy rather than outright complicit in the 56 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:18.279 crime. If they had knowledge of this murder beforehand, you'd think that one 57 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:21.959 of the very first things that they do is try to recover the shellcasing, 58 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:28.399 especially since it was in close proximity to where Stanley's body was found. It 59 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:32.160 sounds like the police search was more focused on figuring out if anything was stolen, 60 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:36.560 So I guess the innocent explanation is that they weren't looking for any shells 61 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:41.759 because they didn't know Stanley was shot at that point. Well esther had seen 62 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:46.040 one of the intruders briefly placing a pistol on the floor. I don't think 63 00:04:46.040 --> 00:04:49.079 she actually heard a gunshot because her hearing aid had been knocked out. So 64 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:54.199 the police may have gone into the house under the impression that a gunshot wound 65 00:04:54.279 --> 00:04:58.519 was not the cause of death. It's very possible they could have gone in 66 00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:01.839 saying that they thought it was a stab wound. But I mean, when 67 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:06.680 you look at a body and there's an opening in the flesh and you say, 68 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:12.199 okay, clearly something penetrated his body, which likely led to his death. 69 00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:16.040 I think the autopsy has to be far more detailed. Right you you 70 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:21.600 trace the entry wound to find out what happened. There's no exit wound, 71 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:26.920 is there? Is there not? If there's not, then what could be 72 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:31.360 in that crevice or the wound that's there. They didn't do that because when 73 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:35.879 they do a second autopsy, they actually find the bullet, and again they 74 00:05:35.959 --> 00:05:41.600 might be sloppy, But how do you walk into your dad's home, look 75 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:44.279 down on the floor and say, oh, my gosh, there is actually 76 00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:47.240 a shell casing sitting right here, right near where he was killed, and 77 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:51.600 they didn't find it. It seems like they was rushed, that it was 78 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:57.000 lazy, And I don't think if they were, like if the person doing 79 00:05:57.000 --> 00:06:00.000 the investigation at the scene was involved, that they'd want to miss anything. 80 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:04.199 They might want to hide it and not just overlook it, so that I 81 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:08.920 don't think was planned. It just looks like they didn't care, and that 82 00:06:08.920 --> 00:06:11.800 would be something that I would have a hard time shaking if I was one 83 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:15.480 of the family members. Okay, And like, this really kind of pisses 84 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:19.079 me off because what would make you assume that a knife was used. You 85 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:24.879 have one of the surviving victims of this crime and she's saying I saw a 86 00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:28.600 gun. They know that she's deaf and that she wouldn't have heard or likely 87 00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:32.040 wouldn't have heard a gunshot, so the fact that she didn't hear it is 88 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:36.800 really meaningless. You don't have her saying that she saw one of the perpetrators 89 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:43.240 brandishing a knife, So why would you then assume that the wound to Stanley 90 00:06:43.639 --> 00:06:46.720 is done by a knife, a weapon that Esther never saw to begin with. 91 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:51.319 She saw a gun. I'm presuming that on the surface, knife wounds 92 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:55.079 are not going to look like bullet holes. So it seems like that's kind 93 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:58.279 of an odd mistake to make, especially if you're a professional medical examine or 94 00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:01.160 it's your job to figure out these things, and that's separate from the police 95 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:04.360 department. Right, he should have been doing an independent autopsy. We'll see 96 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:06.680 if that's the case, Like, who knows that that was really the case, 97 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:12.399 but that is his job or her job is to say what happened here? 98 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:16.720 How you miss a lodged bullet in someone's body makes it seem like you, 99 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:20.319 too, are very lazy and incompetent as well. I could see a 100 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:25.920 scenario where they didn't give the medical examiner all of the information about the crime 101 00:07:25.959 --> 00:07:30.759 scene, if they were trying to potentially have them come to the conclusion that 102 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:35.160 Stanley was murdered some other way than a gunshot. I could more likely see 103 00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:39.600 a scenario that they did provide it, and yeah, this autopsy was done 104 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:42.600 and it should be independent, like you said, Ash, but how many 105 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:46.920 of these cases have we seen where conclusions have been changed by medical examiners because 106 00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:53.480 of pressure by police. So I think it is possible that this medical examiner 107 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:56.480 was told, okay, like you know, we're trying to make it look 108 00:07:56.480 --> 00:08:01.839 like it wasn't a gunshot wound, Because even if they weren't given any information, 109 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:05.759 you'd think at that point, like Robin just said, a gunshot wound 110 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:09.920 is going to look incredibly different than like a stab wound, and there will 111 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:13.600 be different blood patterns left at the scene. So any good medical examiner, 112 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:16.959 I mean, unless this person was akin to Fami Malik, they should have 113 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:22.480 been able to see this. Still, if missing the shell casing was simply 114 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:24.920 an honest mistake, it seems pretty sloppy that the police could overlook that, 115 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:28.639 since it sounds like it was pretty easy to find. It's also hard to 116 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:33.159 know whether the mistakes in the original autopsy report were intentional. They concluded that 117 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:37.600 Stanley was stabbed to death, but did they really mistake a gunshot wound for 118 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:41.200 a stab wound and completely miss a bullet inside his chest while performing the autopsy. 119 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:45.440 You'd think that if they wanted to cover up the fact that Stanley was 120 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:48.559 shot, they would have removed the bullets before he was buried. I guess 121 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:52.240 the most suspicious detail is that when Martin turned the shell casing over to a 122 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:56.440 detective, he was told to keep quiet about it for the time being. 123 00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:00.480 It's still a big mystery what actually happened in the shell casing. When the 124 00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:05.600 investigation was reopened over a decade later, the new detectives apparently discovered that crucial 125 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:09.279 evidence have been lost, but it's unclear if one of these pieces of evidence 126 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:13.200 was the shell casing. Yeah, the red flag was when Patsy Peck was 127 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:16.120 reinterviewed about her encounter with the two men in her bookstore on the day before 128 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:20.840 the murder. She claims she shared this information with investigators back in nineteen seventy 129 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:24.159 six, but there was no record of her statements in the original file. 130 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:30.440 It's interesting how Amy Scott's original statements about these two suspects were still in the 131 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:33.320 file, but Patsy Pecks were not. This may have had something to do 132 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:37.879 with the fact that Patsy seemed to know these guys personally, but we'll get 133 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:41.559 back to that in a moment. This is hard because I've had families talk 134 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:43.879 to me before where they say, listen, the police told us not to 135 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:48.679 say anything. They know you know something, or they're trying to hide something. 136 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:52.159 And I've talked to lawnfers and families and said, you know, sometimes 137 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:58.879 information that you're given or that you have can actually be a liability. We 138 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:01.679 talked about this in episode one. Or it can be something that causes greater 139 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:05.039 distress for the family knowing something that can't really be followed through with, or 140 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:09.120 they're trying to preserve information that only the killer would know. So there are 141 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:13.120 definitely reasons why investigators would speak to a family member and say, listen, 142 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:18.399 don't talk about this, right, it's a very important fact that you know 143 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:20.240 it. Now, try not to talk about it, which is also a 144 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:24.320 burden on somebody emotionally. Right, But then you start looking at all these 145 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:28.919 other things, and it doesn't seem that benign right, that the cause of 146 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:33.360 death was wrong. They didn't get the shell casing that when they get the 147 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:37.919 shell casing from the sun that they're putting in their pocket. They don't list 148 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:43.679 information from Patsy Peck in the case file. But she told them significant information 149 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:48.080 more than Amy told them. Right, she was giving them the visual looks, 150 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:52.159 She was telling them information because she's acquainted with them. Did the detective 151 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:58.759 simply have a decided mindset that I don't care that this woman isn't reliable. 152 00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:05.360 I don't think it's important, so they chose to leave it out to me. 153 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:09.360 You put everything in a case file. I don't care how benign it 154 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:13.120 seems. I don't care how silly it seems, how misleading it seems. 155 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:18.440 If it's not written down in nineteen seventy six when I reopened that case in 156 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:20.840 nineteen eighty nine, or eighty six, when these other guys did, I 157 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:26.159 don't have that information to contemplate, given new technology and new facts. So 158 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:31.879 I'm very angry at these original detectives for their lacks of daisical attitude and for 159 00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:37.639 choosing what needs to be involved in this case and what doesn't. Patsy Peck's 160 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:41.399 story sounds like it's something that needed to be recorded and written down, whether 161 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:46.360 it made sense at the time or not. Yeah, we talked about this 162 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:48.960 in the last episode, the possibility that some of the police detectives at that 163 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:52.399 time may have been involved in the illegal gambling that was taken place at this 164 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:58.279 bar. And they see Patsy's Peck naming these two people who are associated with 165 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:00.840 the owner of this bar. They may be thinking themselves, well, if 166 00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:03.080 they dig into these guys, they're going to find out this other illegal activity 167 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:07.120 we're involved when So that's why we have to suppress it from the case file, 168 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:09.759 and that's why it was buried for over a decade. Yeah, and 169 00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:13.120 I think what you said, ash, like each thing kind of in isolation 170 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:18.519 could be benign, but it's the totality of evidence. When we look at 171 00:12:18.559 --> 00:12:24.600 the medical examiner overlooking a bullet inside of Stanley, we see Martin giving the 172 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:28.480 detective a bullet or the shell casing, and the detective says to him, 173 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:33.480 like, let's keep this hush hush. And then we have Patsy Peck's testimony 174 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:39.080 being discarded even though we know that it lines up with Amy's. So it 175 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:41.759 should have been something that was incredibly important and should have been pursued. So 176 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:46.679 it looks like, Okay, are you trying to bury the identity of these 177 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:52.639 people because somehow they could be tied to officers or like we suggested in part 178 00:12:52.759 --> 00:12:58.120 one, to dig any deeper into this murder and the potential people that are 179 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:03.200 involved, it could lead back to officers in the department So for now, 180 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:07.440 let's talk about the drug dealer who came forward in March nineteen eighty nine and 181 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:11.200 reignited the investigation. We have no idea who this guy is, as he 182 00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:16.159 was interviewed on Unsolved Mysteries in silhouette and concealed his identity. But I'd be 183 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:22.200 really curious to know what compelled him to suddenly come forward after twelve years. 184 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:26.159 If he was facing legal trouble at this time and trying to cut a deal 185 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:30.720 of some sort by sharing information about an unsolved cold case, that would be 186 00:13:30.759 --> 00:13:33.360 one thing. But if he came forward of his own volition, that would 187 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:37.399 lend credence to the idea that he was telling the truth. According to the 188 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:41.919 informant, while he was tending bar, he was approached about participating in a 189 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:48.519 burglary and was even driven to Stanley Greswick's house. So obviously, when Stanley 190 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:52.320 turned up dead in a home invasion a few days later, he had to 191 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:56.519 have known there was a connection, but he stayed silent about it. I 192 00:13:56.600 --> 00:14:00.720 guess that's not hard to understand since the informant was a criminal, and it 193 00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:05.600 sounds like the person who approached him was a powerful individual, so he probably 194 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:07.919 felt like his life would be at risk if he talked. I have to 195 00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:11.799 wonder if the informant knew this guy had the police in his back pocket at 196 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:16.799 the time, and the only reason he felt comfortable coming forward a decade later 197 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:20.360 is because there were new detectives working at the Rome PD by this point and 198 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:24.600 he felt like he could trust them. I can understand there being credibility issues 199 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:28.600 with this informant, given that he's an admitted drug dealer, but there did 200 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:33.559 seem to be a corroboration to this story when another witness saw two men getting 201 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:39.919 paid off at this same bar after the Greasick murder took place. It's never 202 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:43.679 been explicitly stated if the man who approached the informant about the burglary and the 203 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:48.759 man who paid off these two suspects for the same person, but I get 204 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:52.720 the impression that they are, and I find it very likely that after the 205 00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:56.320 informant turned down the offer to participate in the burglary, the other two guys 206 00:14:56.360 --> 00:15:01.440 were hired instead by the sound that they The two men used to live in 207 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:05.080 Rome, but it'd since moved away, so they returned there to commit the 208 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:09.840 crime and then left again shortly thereafter. You know, it's easy to say, 209 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:13.159 like this informant new information, and he didn't come forward, how dare 210 00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:16.879 him? But Jules, you've nailed several explanations for why he wouldn't immediately come 211 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:22.000 forward. I think the fact that after over a decade he does is incredibly 212 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:26.960 important to look at. So many things could have happened that is a decade, 213 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:31.200 right, these people had moved away, maybe the main man who had 214 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:35.080 hired people also moved away. It's possible that he died, or that people 215 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:39.799 involved had passed away. It's possible that relationships had changed, like he didn't 216 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:46.279 feel loyalty to these people anymore, that he found religion, that he was 217 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:50.759 in a relationship where honesty was important for him, right, a recovery program 218 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:54.799 or something like that. So there's a million reasons that he could have come 219 00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:58.440 forward a decade later. Had he come forward right away, it's possible Stanley 220 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:03.000 wouldn't have done or possible they would have solved the case. But he did 221 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:07.559 come forward, and so as much as it's frustrating it took him so long, 222 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:11.039 he really is the reason that this case picked up the steam, that 223 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:15.080 the new investigators got this passion to say we're going to get it covered on 224 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.799 and solved mysteries. We're going to try to see if there's enough to indict 225 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:23.039 and convict this man and link him to these other people. And yet they 226 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:27.639 just fell slightly short. But there's got to be a lot of I guess, 227 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:32.759 appreciation that this guy did have a change of heart because he was in 228 00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:36.159 criminal activity, he did have a lot to risk, and he did turn 229 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:40.960 down the job. So there had to be so much fear and a significant 230 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:42.840 compelling reason for him to need to come forward and tell the police that, 231 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:48.320 well, there's a culture of silence within these criminal organizations. You don't want 232 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:52.159 to be a snitch. And I think you're probably right ash that the criminal 233 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:59.159 landscape changes considerably within a decade, so people are either dead or in jail, 234 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:03.119 different people are in power, and so if those specific cops were involved 235 00:17:03.160 --> 00:17:07.279 as well, then they're likely not on that case, or maybe they've retired 236 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:12.000 or they've left for a variety of reasons. So you can see how he 237 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:17.519 may find this to be the right time to come forward if there was some 238 00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:21.920 guilt involving it. Because just because you're a drug dealer doesn't mean that you're 239 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:26.640 okay with murder, oh exactly like During his Unsolved Mysteries interview, he says 240 00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:29.960 that when he was approached about this job, that no one said anything about 241 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:33.000 killing anybody, but he said that, hey, I'm a criminal, I'm 242 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:34.839 a drug dealer. I do illegal things, but I have my limits, 243 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:40.359 and I crossed the line over breaking into people's homes and committing burglaries. So 244 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:42.400 that's why he turned down the job to begin with, even though he would 245 00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:45.839 have made a lot of money and had his debt white cleaned. So you 246 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:48.039 have to think that as the years went on and he found out that someone 247 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:52.119 was murdered inside that home during the burglary, that his conscience eventually got the 248 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:56.640 better of him and that's why he decided to come forward. So now let's 249 00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:00.920 discuss the other two witnesses, Amy Scott and Patsy Peck. I think it's 250 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:03.920 a given that Amy Scott did see the two men who invaded the greas At 251 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:08.279 home and murdered Stanley, But I do wonder about Amy's account about being tailed 252 00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:11.920 by them a few days after the crime took place. Not that I think 253 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:15.240 she's making the story up, but perhaps it was just a coincidence that they 254 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:18.599 happened to be driving in the same area, and she became paranoid that they 255 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:22.359 were following her. The only thing I questioned is whether these two men could 256 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:26.720 have even known who Amy was. But she did say that she shouted at 257 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:30.400 them when they sped out of the neighborhood that night and nearly sideswiped her dogs. 258 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:33.440 If those guys actually heard Amy yelling, they might have become concerned that 259 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:37.640 she had seen them leaving the murder scene, which is why they decided to 260 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:41.160 tailor a few days later, but backed off when she stopped at the police 261 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:45.279 station. Now, Patsy Peck's eyewitness account is a bit more confusing because she 262 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:48.759 claimed that she saw these two men in her bookstore the day before the murder, 263 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:53.400 But the implication seems to be that she actually knew their identities because they 264 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:57.079 were acquainted with her husband. It sounds like this was the first time she'd 265 00:18:57.079 --> 00:19:00.240 seen them in quite some time, since they lived in Rome for a while. 266 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:03.640 But if Patsy and her husband knew who these guys were, they they 267 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:08.160 not provide their names to the police. Yea's all mystery segment doesn't exactly make 268 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:11.880 that clear. However, I would not be surprised if Patsy did provide their 269 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:15.720 names during her initial interview in nineteen seventy six, but if the police were 270 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:19.200 complicit in the cover up, that would explain why her statement was missing from 271 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:23.359 the file when they reopened the case over twelve years later. That's what's very 272 00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:29.799 interesting to me is that Amy's story is important because she did see these people 273 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:33.960 around the home at the time of the murder. But Patsy's is really powerful, 274 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:37.599 and she says, I know these people, I'm connected to them. 275 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:41.680 It does seem Robin like it's possible that they said, oh my god, 276 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:45.279 she does know too much. Let's just not include that or pursue anything that 277 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:49.119 she told us. It's also possible who knows. I mean, there's times 278 00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:55.000 when people in criminal enterprises have these just bizarre names like mad Dog and you 279 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:56.920 know, Butch and these kinds of things, and so it's possible she gave 280 00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:00.599 them names she knew, like he goes by this, or you know, 281 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:06.039 my husband calls him this, and you know, you wouldn't know who that 282 00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:08.400 person's real name was, and the people in that criminal enterprise, it would 283 00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:12.400 know their real identity is. Are those people are surely not going to be 284 00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:17.920 talking to the police, So either they covered it up or Patsy gave names 285 00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:22.160 that were not legal names and they couldn't link them to real people. Oh 286 00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:26.920 come on, Rome is a small town. I know in Vancouver at least, 287 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:30.920 and I think in most major cities, if somebody's involved in a criminal 288 00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:34.839 enterprise, even though they have street names, the police are typically aware of 289 00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:41.359 those street names if those individuals have been incarcerated before. So in a town 290 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:44.880 like Rome where the population was what like forty three thousand people or something, 291 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:48.160 yes, it is, Yeah, so I would think that they would be 292 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:52.440 aware. So I just I have a hard time believing that the police wouldn't 293 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:56.599 have been able to get these names, because it seems very clear that the 294 00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:00.000 identities were given. I mean, if these people lived in the town, 295 00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:03.200 the husband of Amy Scott knew them, she would know them too, because 296 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:06.319 it's a pretty small town. So it's like being like, oh, they're 297 00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:08.799 my husband's sort of acquaintances or friends, you're going to know them too. 298 00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:12.559 You'd at least know their first names and things like that. They would know 299 00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:17.440 who mad Dog was, they would know who that dog was. Yeah, 300 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:19.480 I like those nicknames we have to call the mad Dog and Butch for the 301 00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:23.359 rest of this episode thousand percent a thousand percent, and if we ever played 302 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:27.440 this on film, I want to be mad Dog for sure. It's also 303 00:21:27.559 --> 00:21:30.799 implied that the witness who saw these two men get paid off in the bar 304 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:36.119 also knew who they were, as he apparently approached the guy who paid them 305 00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:40.960 and confirmed their identities. Now, even if law enforcement knew the two men's 306 00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:44.559 names, I can understand why they did not disclose this on the show. 307 00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:48.279 People clearly knew the identity of the individual who paid them off, but his 308 00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:53.079 name was never disclosed either, because you can't go publicly naming people as murder 309 00:21:53.160 --> 00:22:00.200 suspects on national television unless you have very strong evidence. But the confusing part 310 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:04.839 is that the Unsolved Mystery segment showed composite sketches, very creepy composite sketches, 311 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:08.880 I might add, of the two suspects who were believed to be responsible for 312 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:14.799 the attack on the Greasy home. If law enforcement actually knew the identities of 313 00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:19.279 these two suspects, why were they releasing composite sketches. Maybe the composite sketch 314 00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:22.440 was something that they wanted people to say, Oh my gosh, I know 315 00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:27.200 this. This is mad Dog and Butch, I know them, And so 316 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:30.920 they would call in and they would provide more and more evidence. Remember in 317 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:34.759 the eighties, they said, we had enough to probably go get an indictment 318 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:38.599 and start to charge him with murder, but we definitely didn't think we had 319 00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:42.720 enough for a slam dunk beyond a reasonable doubt case against this man. So 320 00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:47.599 maybe by releasing these composite sketches, people could say, oh, my god, 321 00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:51.000 that's so and so he told me in a bar three years ago that 322 00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:53.279 he had killed this old man in his house. Maybe they were looking for 323 00:22:53.319 --> 00:22:59.720 someone to provide those extra pieces of evidence or circumstantial bits that would move that 324 00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:03.680 barometer up towards like, oh wait, now I think we do have enough 325 00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:07.119 to go after this person. And who gave them enough information for these composite 326 00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:11.519 sketches? Was it Amy? Was it Patsy? Was it both women? 327 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:17.559 And they used that description to draw these composite sketches, That's what I'm guessing, 328 00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:19.240 Yeah, because Esther wouldn't have gotten to look at their faces because they 329 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:22.000 were wearing masks at the time. Though that, like I said, that 330 00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:26.319 is kind of weird that a Patsy knew their identities that she still provided a 331 00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:30.799 detailed enough description to create composite sketches if they knew who they really were. 332 00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:33.359 But like you said, this might have just been a way to like jog 333 00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:37.000 people's memories or something like that, because at that point thirteen fourteen years had 334 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:41.279 passed and these men had probably aged, so they figured, well, maybe 335 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:44.880 I'll remember this person who looked like that back in nineteen seventy six, which 336 00:23:44.920 --> 00:23:51.079 is why we're releasing these sketches. Anyway. Shortly after the Unsolved Mystery segment 337 00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:53.920 aired, the authorities announced that they received a number of tips which pointed them 338 00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:59.039 towards a prime suspect. The implication seems to be that the suspect was the 339 00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:03.440 individual who high the two men to break into the Greasi home, but investigators 340 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:07.200 never specified if they actually knew the identities of those two perpetrators. The only 341 00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:11.279 name that law enforcement is ever released to the public was Charles Brazinski, who 342 00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:15.880 was a former employee at the bar and considered to be a material witness in 343 00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:19.960 the case. I guess they felt comfortable releasing Brazinski's name and photograph because he 344 00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:25.359 was technically a wanted fugitive after he jumped bail in an unrelated drug case. 345 00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:29.160 But it doesn't look like the Amber found Brazinski, and it's unclear what his 346 00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:33.559 exact connection was to the Greasik murder. Quite frankly, it would not surprise 347 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:37.400 me if Brazinski was already dead by the time the unsaw Mystery segment aired. 348 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:42.960 It's very possible. And remember the poster who was on that one UNSAWD Mysteries 349 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:45.200 form who was said like, oh, you know, I had an uncle 350 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:48.519 with that name. He looked pretty similar to this person. But we haven't 351 00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:52.680 been in contact with him. We haven't been associated with him in a long 352 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.079 time. He quote left the family, So you know, it sounds like 353 00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:00.039 he was an important piece of the puzzle for information. But if they knew 354 00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:03.200 who the main suspect was, if they had an idea of who these two 355 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:07.920 men had actually did the killing world and they didn't release their names, well, 356 00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:11.119 Charles Bursinski, I want to give him a code name too. But 357 00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:15.119 if they released his name, then it is pretty probable that he was not 358 00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:21.160 one of the people directly involved in the commission of this crime. Because they 359 00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:23.279 had these other people, they probably knew who they were, and they said, 360 00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:26.880 Charles, if we can find you, it's going to give us that 361 00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:30.319 missing link they were looking for. It sounds to me like the authorities had 362 00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:36.319 a pretty decent, circumstantial case against their prime suspect back in nineteen ninety. 363 00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:40.440 You had one witness who claimed this man had approached him about breaking into the 364 00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:44.119 grease at home, as well as the witness who saw him paying off two 365 00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:48.160 men who were seeing outside the grease at home by another witness on the night 366 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:52.119 of the murder. But it seems like law enforcement just didn't feel confident this 367 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:55.880 evidence was strong enough to secure a conviction if they brought the case to trial. 368 00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:00.440 They may have feared there would have been credibility issues with the witnesses connected 369 00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:03.240 this suspect to the crime, especially since one of them was an admitted drug 370 00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:07.759 dealer. Overall, the investigation just seemed to lack that one crucial piece of 371 00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:12.160 evidence needed to close the case. Personally, I think one issue which may 372 00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:17.839 have prevented the authorities from prosecuting this case was the lack of apparent motive. 373 00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:22.079 There's definitely strong evidence that someone orchestrated a break in at the Greasi home, 374 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:26.240 which ultimately led to Stanley's murder, But the hardest thing to figure out is 375 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:33.279 why, exactly why did this happen. People describe Stanley as someone you would 376 00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:36.279 never expect to be involved in something like this. He and his wife are 377 00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:40.599 home at night, He's drawing a bath for her and their grand babies sleeping 378 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:45.799 upstairs, so it's this kind of quintessential evening with grandma and grandpa, and 379 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:48.920 then all of a sudden, Stanley's murdered. Why what happened? Why did 380 00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:52.720 Esther get to live? But then we start to learn that Peter might have 381 00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:56.839 a tie to something a little bit in the illegal realm. It's possible his 382 00:26:56.920 --> 00:27:03.000 bar was operating illegal gambling and drugs there. But we also don't know what 383 00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:08.640 Stanley knew. If he knew something big about Peter, he probably would not 384 00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:14.559 have told Esther. If something of value or something of important information was in 385 00:27:14.599 --> 00:27:18.880 the home because of Peter, Ester probably wouldn't have known. So that motive 386 00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:25.039 becomes elusive because Stanley was likely hiding a secret for Peter. If Peter truly 387 00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:29.799 is a link to this murder, well, by all accounts, Stanley Griesick 388 00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:33.880 was a very honest individual who never would have involved himself in criminal activity, 389 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:37.640 but his honesty may have been the very reason he was targeted. And like 390 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:40.920 we just said, the key to this case is definitely Stanley's deceased brother, 391 00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:44.559 Peter. We know he had the liquor license to a bar which some very 392 00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:48.920 shady things took place, such as gambling and drug dealing, and this establishment 393 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:52.319 why would up having its license revoked and shutting down years later? Since all 394 00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:56.599 the evidence seems to point to the crime being planned in this very same bar, 395 00:27:56.920 --> 00:28:00.599 there has to be a connection. All these events could be to the 396 00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:04.119 private, closed or conversation that Stanley had with Peter while he was gravely ill. 397 00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:08.759 Whatever Peter told Stanley, it must have been pretty bad if it could 398 00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:14.039 cause to otherwise very close brothers, because he's contact with each other while one 399 00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:17.880 of them was on his deathbed. One of Stanley's daughters was interviewed during the 400 00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:21.480 Unsolved Mystery segment and she said that her father might have been willing to look 401 00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:25.039 the other way if he knew his brother was involved in gambling, but would 402 00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:29.400 draw the line if it involved drugs. There really isn't much information out there 403 00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:33.279 about Peter, and even though he held the bar's liquor license, it's unclear 404 00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:36.920 how much involvement he might have had with any of the illegal activity which took 405 00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:41.160 place there. Stanley never did share what his brother told him, but before 406 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:44.680 his death he did tell his daughter quote, I don't know what I'll ever 407 00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:47.960 see you again, which seems to imply that he feared his life was in 408 00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:52.960 danger. So with Stanley murdered because he knew some incriminating information about the activities 409 00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:56.799 at the bar and was considering going to the authorities about it, well, 410 00:28:56.799 --> 00:29:00.880 this is where the motive behind the crime gets a bit murky. First Off, 411 00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:04.200 if Peter shared something incriminating with Stanley, how would the killers have even 412 00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:08.759 known about it. This was a private conversation which took place behind closed doors, 413 00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:12.440 and I get the impression that the only other people who knew this conversation 414 00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:18.400 even happened were members of the Greasy family before he passed away. Did Peter 415 00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:22.680 somehow let Stanley's killers know that he had talked, or did Stanley trust the 416 00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:26.119 wrong people and share this information, because remember, he's not coming home and 417 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:30.960 telling his wife, and he's not telling his son and daughter what's going on. 418 00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:34.599 But his behavior is different. He's withdrawn well, his brother's also dying 419 00:29:34.799 --> 00:29:38.400 or decease at this point, so that could also have influenced his kind of 420 00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:42.920 reclusiveness or or behavior change. But what if he was at let's say, 421 00:29:42.920 --> 00:29:48.319 a bar and it's guy's night and they are smoking a cigar and talking and 422 00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:51.599 he says, guys, I gotta fill you in on this. What do 423 00:29:51.640 --> 00:29:55.200 we know about Peter and this right this topic, and they're like talking to 424 00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:56.440 him about it? Oh my god? What did he say? And what 425 00:29:56.519 --> 00:30:00.559 if they're actually involved on the other side or they Peter. So I think 426 00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:06.799 it's possible that Peter told somebody, or Stanley told somebody. Maybe Peter even 427 00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:08.559 said, hey, I confided in my brother, and now he won't talk 428 00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:12.160 to me, do you know what I mean? And he's distressed about that. 429 00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:18.279 Or maybe Stanley innocently said something that triggered someone saying he knows more than 430 00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:21.799 he's saying. We're in trouble, and therefore they had to start planning to 431 00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:26.519 hear rid of Stanley as well. Who inherits Peter's liquor license when he dies. 432 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:29.799 That's a good question. I haven't heard anything about that. I don't 433 00:30:29.799 --> 00:30:32.720 think it was Stanley, and I don't think Stanley would have been interested in 434 00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:36.119 that, so I'm presuming it was passed along to someone else who worked at 435 00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:38.000 the bar. That's what I would think as well. I would think whoever 436 00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:44.480 assumed ownership of the bar would then have to reapply for a liquor license under 437 00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:49.359 their name. This reminds us of another unsolved mysteries case which we once covered 438 00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:55.039 on a bonus Patreon Minnisota of the path Point Chili, the nineteen eighty two 439 00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:59.359 murder of Perm and Gilbert. One of the theories put forward in that crime 440 00:30:59.480 --> 00:31:03.920 was the Perm was murdered because his brother was involved in criminal activity and it 441 00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:07.799 testified as a witness in an organized crime case. Some people wondered if Perman 442 00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:11.400 might have been murdered by people connected to that case who wanted to lure his 443 00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:15.920 brother out of hiding to attend Perman's funeral. Well, the key difference here 444 00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:21.240 is that Peter Griesick had already been dead four months before Stanley was murdered, 445 00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:26.240 and their conversation also took place four months before Peter passed away. So if 446 00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:30.640 Peter shared some incriminating information about the bar, I just don't know why the 447 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:34.240 perpetrators would decide to come after Stanley after all that time had passed, or 448 00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:37.839 why they'd even have a reason to believe that Stanley was a threat to them. 449 00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:44.079 The big unanswered question in this case is what exactly the two intruders were 450 00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:48.240 looking for when they ransacked the Grisick residence. The only thing discovered to be 451 00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:52.400 missing from the home were two beers from the refrigerator, so there are two 452 00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.880 possible options here. A, the intruders did find what they were looking for, 453 00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:00.400 but since Esther and the rest of the Greasy family were not aware of 454 00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:06.160 its existence, they didn't notice it was missing, or be the intruders were 455 00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:09.039 looking for something which did not exist in the first place. Even if the 456 00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:14.640 two intruders came into the house with the intention of killing Stanley, it's unclear 457 00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:17.240 if they wanted to kill Esther. They did choke her into unconsciousness, and 458 00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:22.240 Esther said that she pretty much played dead the entire time the intruders were there. 459 00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:24.039 But I think that if they wanted to kill Esther, they would have 460 00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:28.720 just fired a bullet into her rather than going to the trouble of handcuffing her 461 00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:32.039 and tying her up. It was not mentioned on the unsolved mystery segment that 462 00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:36.880 the greasy six year old grandson was spending the night with them and sleeping upstairs 463 00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:40.119 throughout the entire ordeal. I'm not sure if the intruders even knew the boy 464 00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:45.319 was in the house, but they left him unharmed and didn't feel too concerned 465 00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:50.799 about restraining him. I think it's very possible that either scenario took place. 466 00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:54.119 I mean, the thing with Esther that really disturbed me, as they did 467 00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:59.759 make sure she was incapacitated to the point of unconsciousness. That is incredibly violent 468 00:32:59.799 --> 00:33:04.880 and scary, but it did exactly what they needed to do. They removed 469 00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:08.920 the threat of Esther. They then handcuff they tie her arms to her feet, 470 00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:14.039 and they're able to make sure she isn't going anywhere. I don't know 471 00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:16.599 if they knew she was deaf or not, but she also loses her ability 472 00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:21.680 to hear once her hearing aids come out. I do think, like Jewels 473 00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:25.720 said in episode one, killing a child, when you've been hired to retrieve 474 00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:30.599 information and get rid of a threat, that's a whole another level, right, 475 00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:34.440 That is a whole another level. I came for Stanley and the information 476 00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:37.119 he had. I came for Stanley and the money he had. Now, 477 00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:39.680 if Esther had been a threat or tried to attack, I think they would 478 00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:44.160 have killed her. I don't think they're above killing her. Had the grandson 479 00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:49.440 seen their face, had the grandchild seen them or charged them, or tried 480 00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:52.480 to get a gun out of their hand, I could also see them killing 481 00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:55.359 him. But because they were no longer a threat, because their faces were 482 00:33:55.400 --> 00:34:01.240 covered purposefully, they didn't have to kill Esther and the child. I think 483 00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:05.319 in the hour that they were going around the house, they had to have 484 00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:09.199 seen the child sleeping in a bed and they were thinking, Okay, that 485 00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:13.920 room's kind of off limits. There's a doubt that's where the information is, 486 00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:16.320 and that child sound asleep. It's not a risk to us, and they 487 00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:22.400 moved on, thank God. So it's possible that Stanley was the only person 488 00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:27.840 killed because the perpetrators believed he knew something. But there's an alternate explanation. 489 00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:30.760 According to the informant who came forward in nineteen eighty nine, what he was 490 00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:36.559 approached about participating the job, he was referred to as a quote unquote burglary. 491 00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:39.280 However, the actual break in does not fit the profile of a burglary 492 00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:43.920 because even though the place was torn apart, not being valuable was taken. 493 00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:47.760 But what if they were looking for something valuable which wasn't actually there. The 494 00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:51.960 informant was apparently told there was a large amount of money in the house, 495 00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:54.719 but unless Stanley had a secret stash that his family didn't know about, that 496 00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:59.920 certainly wasn't true. So I can see a scenario where the person who orcs 497 00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:02.159 traded this job were only assumed that there was money out for the taking, 498 00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:07.280 so the intruders tore apart the house looking for cash which did not exist. 499 00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:10.840 If Peter was involved in something illegal, such as gambling or drugs, he 500 00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:15.360 may have been skimming money from whoever he worked for, or they were simply 501 00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:19.559 under the mistaken impression that he was skimming money. After Peter died, they 502 00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:22.880 assumed he passed this money on to his brother, who was keeping it hidden 503 00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:25.840 inside his house. When the intruders ransacked the place and discovered there was no 504 00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:30.480 money, they may have believed Stanley was holding out on them, which eventually 505 00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:34.280 led to them firing a bullet into him. A parallel could be made between 506 00:35:34.280 --> 00:35:37.000 this scenario and the nineteen fifty nine murders of the Clutter family, which, 507 00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:40.679 as you probably know, was the subject of the iconic true crime novel In 508 00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:45.079 Cold Blood. In that case, the two perpetrators, Perry Smith and Dick 509 00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:50.159 Hycock, broke into the Clutter home because they were under the mistaken impression that 510 00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:53.519 there was a safe containing around ten thousand dollars in cash. When they discovered 511 00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:59.000 that this was untrue and that no such safe existed, they responded by murdering 512 00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:04.719 the entire family. So awful, so awful. It does have that kind 513 00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:08.599 of feel there to the In Cold Blood murders. But thank god, they 514 00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:13.360 only say that. My god, the fact that they killed Stanley is pitiful. 515 00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:15.079 But they only killed Stanley, which seemed to have been their target. 516 00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:21.599 I could see rage coming over them when they confront Stanley and they say, 517 00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:23.400 show us where this information is, show us where the money is, show 518 00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:25.679 us where the drugs are. And he says, I don't know what you're 519 00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:30.559 talking about, which maybe he didn't. We don't know what Peter told him. 520 00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:34.159 Or maybe Stanley doesn't have it, maybe he got rid of it, 521 00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:37.679 or maybe he never had it in the first place. So if Stanley doesn't 522 00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:44.119 give them what they want. I can see them completely just flying into a 523 00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:46.039 rage and killing him. But I think they were going to kill him no 524 00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:49.400 matter what. I think that was part of the plan. We're going to 525 00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:52.000 go in there. We're going to eliminate the threat of Stanley, assuming he 526 00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:55.400 knows something, and whether he did or not, I think they succeeded in 527 00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:58.719 what they set out to do. Did they get what they came for? 528 00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:02.559 I don't know they actually come for money or information, but I do definitely 529 00:37:02.599 --> 00:37:07.639 think that part of the motive was to kill Stanley. And we mentioned at 530 00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:10.960 our last episode of Potential Theory that this big secret that Peter told Stanley before 531 00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:14.760 he died may have been something connected to him owing a lot of money, 532 00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:17.159 and that he pretty much revealed to Stanley that my debt is going to be 533 00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:21.440 passed along to you after I'm gone. So they could have broke it in 534 00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:23.880 like looking for all this money that they felt Peter owed them, but Stanley 535 00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:28.000 just didn't have this money and there was nothing they could do, so they 536 00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:30.960 killed them in a fit of rage. I guess the main issue with figuring 537 00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:36.480 out how these events transpired is that Esther's hearing aid was knocked out, so 538 00:37:36.519 --> 00:37:39.719 she never heard a gunshot As a result, no one knows the exact time 539 00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:44.800 Stanley was killed, and whether he was shot before or after the two men 540 00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:47.599 finished round sacking the house. I don't know. It seems to me that 541 00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:52.519 if they were looking for something I couldn't find it, they might have attempted 542 00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:55.360 to make Stanley talk by threatening the life of his wife or his grandson. 543 00:37:55.800 --> 00:38:00.679 But I do not believe this ever occurred. Ester was not disturbed at all 544 00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:05.239 during the entire time she was lying in the kitchen, so part of me 545 00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:08.440 wonders if the intruders actually did find what they were looking for. I have 546 00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:13.840 my doubts that Stanley could have been stashing drugs or gambling money inside his house. 547 00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:17.519 But what if his brother's confession had caused him to unclever a key piece 548 00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:22.840 of evidence about illegal activity at the bar, which he was planning to turn 549 00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:27.440 over to the police. When the intruders found the evidence, they killed Stanley, 550 00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:30.000 but did not feel the need to kill esther because she didn't know anything 551 00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:35.480 about it. They subsequently left with the evidence and destroyed it before they were 552 00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:38.599 paid off by the person who hired them and skipped down. To me, 553 00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:43.559 that has to be what happened. They needed information from Stanley or they wanted 554 00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:47.519 something that Stanley had and then they needed to get rid of him. And 555 00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:51.599 so no matter what the outcome was, if they got it or not, 556 00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:55.480 they succeeded in killing Stanley. I definitely think information that he was going to 557 00:38:55.519 --> 00:39:01.000 give to the police is more probable than money or drugs in the house, 558 00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:05.920 because Stanley didn't seem to be involved in either, right, He didn't seem 559 00:39:05.960 --> 00:39:08.159 to be involved in the gambling or the illegal drug trade his brother was. 560 00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:13.119 And remember his daughter even said, my dad would stop at the drug part, 561 00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:16.039 like he would not be okay if Peter was doing something with illegal drugs. 562 00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:20.599 So Stanley sure is heck not going to be storing like pounds of cocaine 563 00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:24.480 in his house somewhere. I do not think that Esther had any knowledge of 564 00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:30.320 any of this. I believe Stanley protected her either out of fear or just 565 00:39:30.440 --> 00:39:35.719 not wanting to concern her, not to worry her, but Stanley knew something 566 00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:38.440 was dangerous circulating around him. He told his daughter, I don't know when 567 00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:43.000 I'll see you again. That forever is going to haunt me about this case. 568 00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:46.320 Because he was killed shortly after that. So what Peter told him is 569 00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:51.760 critical to know in this case. What Stanley was hiding is critical to know 570 00:39:51.800 --> 00:39:53.760 in this case. But well, I don't think that we're ever going to 571 00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:58.639 know those details because his own wife and children didn't know it either. I 572 00:39:58.679 --> 00:40:04.280 think it's totally possible that we can't go off what Esther is saying because she 573 00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:08.559 was strangled to the point where she passed out and her hearing aid was knocked 574 00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:13.079 out and then she played dead, but she was unable to see her here 575 00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:16.400 because she was playing dead. So it is very possible that these intruders did 576 00:40:16.440 --> 00:40:22.920 go to Stanley and threatened that if he didn't give up the location of whatever 577 00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:28.119 this was would be it information or something along those lines, that they would 578 00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:32.800 then harm the groundson who was sleeping upstairs, or harm Esther, because unfortunately, 579 00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:38.199 because of Esther being death, we can't really go off her as being 580 00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:42.360 an ear witness, and because she was playing dead, she wasn't really an 581 00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:46.039 eyewitness passed a certain point either. And we also have the eyewitness who said 582 00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:51.760 that he saw the two men being paid off shortly after the murder took place. 583 00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:53.800 And I have to think that if they didn't actually find what they were 584 00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:58.159 looking for and ransacking the house, that maybe the person who hired them would 585 00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:00.320 have been reluctant to give them all this money and maybe have said, no, 586 00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:04.840 you did not complete the job I assigned you, so stick around until 587 00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:07.440 you do. But the fact that he handed them an envelope of money and 588 00:41:07.480 --> 00:41:10.199 these two men left town makes me think that they accomplished what they were planning 589 00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:15.239 to do when they went into the Greasi residence. So either they got the 590 00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:19.079 information that they were looking for whatever they were looking for, or just their 591 00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:23.360 primary objective was to kill Stanley and they just ransacked the place to try to 592 00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:27.920 cover up what their actual motive was. Yeah, that's true. Maybe they 593 00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:30.239 weren't actually looking for someone, they just decided to ransack the place as a 594 00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:36.400 cover because killing Stanley was their primary objective. Overall, this is just a 595 00:41:36.440 --> 00:41:39.400 frustrating case because I get the impression that law enforcement reached the point where they 596 00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:44.119 knew exactly what happened and who was involved, but there was just one key 597 00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:46.760 piece of the puzzle missing, which prevented them from making any arrests and bringing 598 00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:51.519 the investigation to a close. A number of people in Rome may have known 599 00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:53.920 who was behind the murder, but either out of fear or complicity, they 600 00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:59.400 kept quiet about what happened, and by the time the investigation was rejuvenated and 601 00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:02.159 there was a bario's attempt to find justice, too much time had passed, 602 00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:06.599 had a lot of key pieces of evidence, and potential witnesses were no longer 603 00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:10.159 around. Whatever the case, you have to feel immense sympathy for Stanley Gresik, 604 00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:14.960 who lived his entire life on the straight and narrow and was likely killed 605 00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.239 because of something his brother was involved in. The whole situation was also a 606 00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:22.000 terrible tragedy for his wife, Esther, who survived the ordeal, but the 607 00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:27.280 trauma of losing her husband completely devastated her and the words of her family, 608 00:42:27.800 --> 00:42:30.960 Estra essentially died that night as well, and merely existed for the next nineteen 609 00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:36.519 months before she passed away sadly. After all this time, I'm not sure 610 00:42:36.559 --> 00:42:40.079 this case could ever truly be solved, and in all likelihood the people responsible 611 00:42:40.119 --> 00:42:45.440 are probably dead by now, even though their identities have never been revealed publicly. 612 00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:49.039 It seems like a lot of people know who orchestrated this crime and who 613 00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:52.199 the two killers were. But the big mystery in this case is not so 614 00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:54.719 much the who but the why. I'm not sure if we'll ever know the 615 00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:59.519 full truth about how this crime came to be and why Stanley was targeted. 616 00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:02.280 I don't know if anyone can still be prosecuted at this point. But should 617 00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:07.639 you happen to have any information about the unsolved murder of Stanley Gresick, please 618 00:43:07.719 --> 00:43:13.679 contact the appropriate authorities. Jules Ashley any final thoughts on this case. To 619 00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:17.880 me, the thing that stands out is that Stanley's murder may not be solved, 620 00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:22.280 but we have to look back at what happened to this poor family. 621 00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:28.159 Right they walked into the scene of the crime the day after his murder and 622 00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:32.840 they said, Wow, they didn't even investigate enough to find this shell casing 623 00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:37.159 that's on the floor where my father was killed. Wow, they didn't even 624 00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:43.559 look at this case and medically explore his body enough to find a lodged bullet 625 00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:47.440 in his body. Right the fault They put the wrong cause of death here. 626 00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:52.800 And then you have poor Esther who is experiencing all this alongside her children, 627 00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:58.480 not knowing any answers as to what happened to Stanley, and she's literally 628 00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:01.920 breaking down and show down over the next year and a half before her own 629 00:44:02.039 --> 00:44:07.400 death. Esther could not have been elderly. Esther was dying from the trauma 630 00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:13.480 and the tragedy of what happened to Stanley. It is so common to see 631 00:44:13.559 --> 00:44:16.800 families physically affected, not just emotionally like we talked about a lot, but 632 00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:23.239 physically affected heart disease, right, eating disorders, body shutting down. It's 633 00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:28.800 so common, and that seems in my heart what took Esther and those kids 634 00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:31.920 lost both their parents in two years. It just breaks my heart. This 635 00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:36.719 is one of the saddest cases for what like as a family, You know 636 00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:39.559 that they'd be sitting there saying, for what was worth taking my daddy's life, 637 00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:45.119 no matter what his brother was doing, Why my dad? It's so 638 00:44:45.159 --> 00:44:49.679 sad And to think what about that six year old grandson that was upstairs, 639 00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:53.000 What type of trauma would it have been for him to then discover what had 640 00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:58.440 happened to his grandmother and that his grandfather had been murdered. And yeah, 641 00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:02.840 you've got Patricia the dag and Martin the son, who clearly were very involved 642 00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:08.679 and wanting to know what happened to Stanley and what is now in the aftermath 643 00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:13.639 taking down their mother Esther because like you said, this grief accumulates, the 644 00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:16.079 body keeps score. It's not one of those things where it's just like, 645 00:45:16.119 --> 00:45:20.719 oh, Okay, he's died now and I'm going to live my best life. 646 00:45:20.920 --> 00:45:23.599 She lived her whole life with this man. This was her partner. 647 00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:29.880 You're supposed to enjoy your golden years together. You're not supposed to have your 648 00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:35.159 husband taken down in such a violent way. You cannot prepare yourself for that. 649 00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:39.159 And it is just so sad, and it just seems like it just 650 00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:44.599 keeps like adding up for them. You've got a situation where the police clearly 651 00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:47.719 are not investigating the death of your father, the murder of your father, 652 00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:53.480 and you're wondering why you're giving them information such as a bullet casing, like 653 00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:58.719 a shell casing that's found there, and they're saying that this was a stabbing, 654 00:45:58.840 --> 00:46:02.840 even though your mother saw a pearl handled gun at the scene. You 655 00:46:02.840 --> 00:46:06.559 would think that that would be the type of injury that you would look for, 656 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:09.519 was the type of weapon that was seen by the other victim of the 657 00:46:09.559 --> 00:46:13.760 crime. So none of this just seems to add up. And then having 658 00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:17.519 to exhume Stanley's body, having to disturb the body of your loved one, 659 00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:22.760 Like, I just can't imagine what type of impact that house on a family. 660 00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:25.719 But at least they have the validation in knowing that they were correct, 661 00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:30.400 that they had the shell casing that they handed over and said, hey, 662 00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:32.920 you better check for this, and the police just didn't do their job. 663 00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:37.679 And the question is did they just drop the ball or was their corruption personally 664 00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:43.760 because of the way that detective acted when Martin handed over the shell casing and 665 00:46:43.800 --> 00:46:46.039 said, like, keep it hush, hush, don't tell anybody, and 666 00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:53.679 Patsy Peck's testimony, which was obviously revealed the identity of these potential perpetrators that 667 00:46:53.679 --> 00:46:59.000 that wasn't included in the case file, and then you know the medical examiners 668 00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:01.599 saying that it was a stab. Just all of these things, the totality 669 00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:05.599 of evidence leads me to believe that, like, as we've said throughout, 670 00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:10.480 there's a possibility that the police were involved in some way with the gambling and 671 00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:15.360 the illicit substances that were being sold out of this bar, and that they 672 00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:19.400 just didn't want it pointing back at them. Yeah, this is another case 673 00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:22.239 I've been haunted by since I watched it. Unsolved Mysteries over thirty years ago, 674 00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:25.639 and like I said, I'm always terrified by the idea of like decent, 675 00:47:25.719 --> 00:47:30.599 law abiding individuals getting killed in what looks like a professional hit, but 676 00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:34.000 no one can understand the motive for the crime. I mean, it's possible 677 00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:37.440 that Stanley knew why these guys were targeting him, maybe he knew it had 678 00:47:37.519 --> 00:47:40.199 something to do with his deceased brother Peter, but not of his other family 679 00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:45.320 members know. Like if Stanley was involved in something or new incriminating information, 680 00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:49.079 he didn't share it with anyone, So his wife and his children are left 681 00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:52.800 completely perpet plexed, like why would somebody break into our house and murder this 682 00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:58.239 very decent man. I always cyte this as like a crime that took place 683 00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:01.960 just a decade too early, because if the crime had occurred while the detectives 684 00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:06.599 working on the case in nineteen eighty nine were in power, if they had 685 00:48:06.599 --> 00:48:08.880 been working for the Rome PD back in nineteen seventy six, they may have 686 00:48:08.920 --> 00:48:15.159 actually solved this one, because they seemed pretty gunk and enthusiastic about like trying 687 00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:17.880 to find the perpetrators and probably would have solved this case if they just had 688 00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:22.920 that final piece of the puzzle that one final piece of evidence that would have 689 00:48:22.920 --> 00:48:25.519 allowed them to make an arrest. But unfortunately, it sounds like the Rome 690 00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:30.320 PD was just a different place back in nineteen seventy six, that there may 691 00:48:30.360 --> 00:48:34.199 have been rampant corruption, or they may have been incompetent, or they had 692 00:48:34.239 --> 00:48:37.400 complicity in some of these illegal activities that were going on within the town, 693 00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:42.280 so that's why they wanted to sweep this under the rug. We mentioned that 694 00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:45.719 the bar that was supposedly the centerpiece of this crime, it closed in nineteen 695 00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:50.840 eighty two, so Rome was just a completely different place in nineteen eighty nine. 696 00:48:50.920 --> 00:48:53.360 In nineteen ninety when this case was reopened, but unfortunately it was just 697 00:48:53.440 --> 00:48:57.719 too little, too late. So yeah, I definitely believe the theory that 698 00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:01.119 someone paid these two men to go to Stanley's house and murder him, and 699 00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:05.360 that the police do know their identities but just lack the evidence to make it 700 00:49:05.480 --> 00:49:08.239 arrest. But the big question is why why did they target this man after 701 00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:10.840 all these years. I don't alf we'll ever know the full truth about why 702 00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:15.360 they did this or what happened, but at least by dating podcasts about stories 703 00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:20.360 like this, cold cases that are several decades old, we're keeping the memories 704 00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:23.239 of victims like Stanley Greezing alive and letting the loved ones know that they haven't 705 00:49:23.239 --> 00:49:27.920 been forgotten. Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit about 706 00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:30.920 the Trail Went Cold Patreon? Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around 707 00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:36.840 for three years now, and we offer the standard bonus features like early ad 708 00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:40.400 free episodes, and I also send out stickers and sign thank you cards to 709 00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:44.960 anyone who signs up with us on Patreon. If you join our five dollar 710 00:49:45.039 --> 00:49:50.639 tier tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in which I talk about 711 00:49:50.719 --> 00:49:53.519 cases which are not featured on the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're 712 00:49:53.559 --> 00:49:58.480 exclusive to Patreon, and if you join our highest tier tier three, the 713 00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:02.239 ten dollar tier. One of the features we offer is a audio commentary track 714 00:50:02.280 --> 00:50:07.159 over classic episodes of UNSAWD Mysteries, where you can download an audio file and 715 00:50:07.199 --> 00:50:13.840 then boot up the original UNSAWD Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or YouTube and play 716 00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:16.760 it with my audio commentary playing in the background, where I just provide trivia 717 00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:22.360 and factoids about the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very 718 00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:25.880 first episode that I did a commentary track over was the episode featuring this case. 719 00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:30.400 So if you want to download a commentary track in which I make more 720 00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:34.920 smartass remarks about Jewel Kaylor than, be sure to join Tier three. So 721 00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:37.000 I want to let you know a little bit about the Jewels and Ashley Patreon, 722 00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:42.079 so there's early ad free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got 723 00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:45.480 our Path Went Chili minis, which are always over an hour, so they're 724 00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:47.440 not very many, but they're just too short to turn into a series, 725 00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:51.920 and we're really enjoying doing those, so we hope you'll check out those. 726 00:50:51.920 --> 00:50:54.519 Patreons will link them in the show notes. So I want to thank you 727 00:50:54.599 --> 00:50:58.960 all for listening, and any chance you have to share us on social media 728 00:50:59.039 --> 00:51:01.679 with a friend to rate and review is greatly appreciate it. You can email 729 00:51:01.760 --> 00:51:06.239 us at the Pathwin Chili at gmail dot com. You can reach us on 730 00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:09.039 Twitter at the Pathwin. So until next time, be sure to bundle up 731 00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:14.679 because cold trails and Chili pass call for warm clothing. Music by Paul Rich 732 00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:15.719 from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy