Welcome to Softcore History. Hello, and welcome back to softcore History. Spooky
Month, Halloween, Horror Month, let's go boys weeks Gook four, Yeah,
I believe it is before. Actually, are we gonna get a fifth
Dard in September? No, no, there's I think October is the way
the calendar goes. Yes, we got extra spook Yeah, well yeah we
do, we do. Yeah, that's Rob Box who said that. And
Dan Rejester over here is all so here. Thanks for joining me today,
guys. Hey, thanks for having me on your show. Yeah, you
know, no problem, no problems. It's always always a great time to
be on the Softcore History. Yeah, we're excited to have you. Hey,
thanks guys. But yeah, if you are not aware, we also
have a Patreon filled totally filled with evergreen content that's at patreon dot com slash
softcore History. We do one episode a week normally on the standard feed,
and we do two a week on the Patreon. So that's eight extra episodes
for five dollars a month, or like this month, maybe more, yeah,
maybe even more. I haven't done the math yet. We wouldn't even
know. We're not softcore math. We're not, but we although all the
math we do on here is softcore. It is. If it gets into
division, we're fucked. It's not happening. The collision is so easy.
It's not that. Give us a little more credit. Sixty four divide by
three, sixty four divide by three, do it? That would be twenty
one and change. Yeah, no, he answered, you don't say yeah,
I said one, So I was doing the math one yeah, fair
on yeah, okay and change. There is a decimal or a remainder.
Remainders are stupid. That's us. That's sucks. Remainder jump. It's not
a remainder. It's a decimal. I know. But remember the first time
when you first learned the vision, it's like twenty four the remainder of Oh
yeah, whatever, just teach me the point. But anyway, literally,
because then you go have to learn it again and they're like, now we're
doing death molds. The way we taught you before was just we just thought
you were stupid. You need to cut it. What cut? What?
Just a remainder? Oh cut the remainder. Yeah, just leave it.
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merch, good history. Now the people know at this point, No,
we got new people every day. Every day. You never know, ya,
hope. So, but let's be a realistic guys. No one's no
one's telling their friends about us, you know, tell your friends about us.
Please tell your friends. We also have a YouTube. Please watch their
people are selfish. I agree. I think that about our listeners all the
time. I just go go to bed seething. Yeah, just why don't
they want us to be rich? Why aren't we bigger? Yeah? But
seriously, why aren't we go join the Patreon if you haven't. It really
does help a small podcast like ours grow and give us jobs that aren't real,
which is what we all want. Yeah. Yeah, I need to
have an excuse for when I get drafted in World War three. I can't.
I'm a pocket. I do evergreen content. To be fair, I'm
rooting for World War three to happen. Are you past draft age? H
totally he is. That's why he's rooting for it. We're not, though.
It's the perfect it's perfect, right because I won't be drafted and my
kids won't be drafted, so we always get to sit and watch you die.
But we we are we good luck work in the camera's asshole. Yeah
yeah, have fun doing three episodes by week a week. I mean,
Rob would revel in it. He'd be like, it's like a pagan shit.
It's the best it's ever been my own shit. Yeah. Well,
you know, speaking of kids, we got a pretty gruesome one today voice
Oh perfect. This is supposed to be a comedy podcast. Now, Oh
it's hilarious. It's hilariously horrifying. But uh, we're we take if you
don't laugh, if you if you don't laugh, you'll cry to wait way
too far. It's like to the point where we seek out Like you know,
you're only supposed to do that if something happens to you, or you
or you find out something like not and you didn't really want to or whatever,
like it comes to you. Right, you shouldn't be seeking things out
to laugh at them instead of cry at them. Yeah, and that's what
we do. We we talked about this the other day, but every episode
really is a horror on this show. I know, we're like, why
do we do spooky month. Almost every topic we ever have is just horrifying.
But nonetheless, this week we're gonna talk about children. No, yes,
in a horrifying way. Well better, that's better. We're gonna do
it. And probably the worst place for children England is it. Uh,
this is the worst places in this part. You mean, like current England.
What year are we talking about. We're gonna be talking around mid nineteen
Hundred's fair enough. It'd be funny if you were like today we're talking about
what was that Japanese unit that experimented what if they just had like a children's
version. It was the Little Sevens. They were worse. It's like a
Bill Nye for Imperial Japan. It's like, this is how you do live
vivisection, right, I think they do that in the Congo live vivisection some
child. So oh yeah, yeah, Cony man, never forget bastard.
But yeah, but it's Africot. It's not fun. But yeah, today
we're gonna be talking about Mary Flora Bell, who is a nightmare. She's
an English woman. I think I read about this chick. She'd murder and
infants, Uh, small children doing the Lord's work sounds just kind of progressive
if you ask me, uh yeah, if you're into that, like,
what is it like? Twentieth term anything before puberty is technically an abortion.
My mother told me she brought me into this world and she can take me
out. And that's a that's a verbal contract. It is every parent has
it. But yeah. Mary Flora Belle is an English woman who killed two
preschool aged boys in Scottswood, England, in nineteen sixty eight. The murders
were very brutal and horrifying, but the most horrifying fact is that she's totally
free. Totally free to this day, she told us to this day,
sweet, very free. She was convicted, she was sentenced, and she
was released only twelve years later. Do you want to know why? Good
behavior? Kind of that's not it? You do you want to guess,
to take a guess why she's released right now? Why she's not out now?
No, she's out right now. She's walking the streets. You said
nineteenth century, I said mid nineteen hundreds. Yeah, mid nineteen you said
mid nineteen. Maybe it did, I don't know, but yeah, yeah,
she was a No, she is the undertaker. No, the reason
she is walking around right now Oh, is because Belle committed these brutal killings
when she was ten years old. Holy shit. Yeah, so she was
tried as a child, so it was like a Slenderman situation. Oh no,
maybe a little slender you're telling me slender Man was a slender boy.
No, no, that remember the slender man killing for those two girls,
satisfice their friend for slender Man, for the slender Man. Yeah, I
wish it were like that, and she had some sort of delusion for some
false like entity. Yeah, not the case here, just for sport.
For more or less. Well, children are precocious, that's true. They're
figuring things out. It's an awkward time, it's a difficult your body's changed
in your life. Yeah, and well I would love to get into the
argument of nature versus nurture. Women also mature faster. Yeah, that's true.
So I would have tried her as an adult. I mean, she
got a sentence of an adult. We'll get to that later. But yeah,
Mary Bell, for all intents and purposes, if it were a nature
and nurture argument, we couldn't have it because the nurture was just bad.
Okay. She was born in nineteen fifty eight to her mother, Elizabeth Betty
Bell, who was a well known local prostitute who was often absent from the
family home, frequently traveling to Glasgow for Left Turn. It was a well
known I was about to be like, oh newscasters and no prostitute or yeah,
she simply just left her kids either with the very angry absent father or
totally alone most of the time. I can't imagine and angry your father?
Yeah, what you bet your gun for work? Again? Someone has to
and you gotta imagine those print fights are just fun. Have got a job.
Her father, William Billy Bell, was a violent alcoholic and habitual criminal,
with an arrest record for crimes including armed robbery and assault. So for
you to be noted as an alcoholic in the UK in nineteen sixty eight,
yeah, mmmm not good because a normal person in the UK in nineteen sixty
eight you would be like, that's an alcoholic. Yeah. Yeah. Alcoholics
have been timeless. I mean since we started. We're lowering the bar is
what I'm saying. We have been We saw probably in the last thirty years.
Yeah, it's really our generation. Yeah, our generation, our parents
still hold it down. Oh they do, they drink man but our generation
generation after us, we don't drink and we don't fuck, and everyone in
our generation is getting sober. I don't like the whole like it just means
you have no willpower. Yeah, pretty much. I mean obviously there are
people that definitely need to do it, but like because they don't have willpower.
Yeah, but like some people it's like, uh, oh, you
felt bad after drinking too much. Just drink less, that's what happen.
Or drink more water, yeah, so anything, or what are you drinking?
Are you still drinking like a fucking nineteen year old? Are you just
drinking rum and cokes all night? I mean, if you don't want to
drink, that's fine, But also don't say you're sober and smoke a fucked
on a weed either. Ah. Yeah, I don't believe in that either.
It's like there's they don't drink. I only did mushrooms, okay,
right, Like all right, that's also a drug. It's more fun though,
it's definitely more fun way safer depending on the circumstances, I guess,
but anyway. Yeah. Within minutes of Mary's birth, her mother had resented
hospital staff, attempting to place her daughter in her arms, shouting take that
thing away from Mike. Not the best first words for a child. No,
they're like, oh, do you want to do skin to skin?
Cot, that's the thing, you know what I mean? Like skin to
skin? Do you want to do a soaking bond with you? Dog?
Line? Get off? Fuck on the puyt man, I gotta go to
Glasgow. But yeah. As a baby and toddler and young child, Mary
frequently suffered injuries and the household, including accidents while alone with her mother,
which led the family to think, man, I think Betty's trying to kill
Mary. Yeah, that sounds accurate. So Mary just grew up and was
like, oh, this is what you do. If there's people around you,
you hurt them. Yeah, you try to kill them. And hurting
them visually is very much a theme through her childhood. On one occasion,
about two years after Mary's born, She's about to Betty dropped her daughter from
a first floor window. It was a seven foot drop. Okay, come
on, yeah, Like it was like, I gotta imagine it was like
a stair floor seven feet? Why is that notable that happened to me?
I turned out, fine, Well, what did happen to you? Yeah?
Well, look at what happened to you. Only I split open my
lip run through. You were dropped out of a window. I think I
fell out of a window. You remember were you dropped intentionally? I was
two? So what do you remember? Huh? Not much? He blacked
out. Yeah, let's do some hypnotism recovered memories. Well, I mean,
what's your earliest memory off the top of your head. It's dumb.
It's like being in a bathtub. Oh, I don't remember anything before I
was like eight. I remember, I remember a couple of things from like,
I remember preschool. I remember like three. Two. Yeah, I
can remember a couple things from being two or three. Yeah. Nothing,
that's fine. Nothing, nothing you really need from any of that time.
No, No, I think yeah, maybe my first memory was just uh,
maybe I was born in an eight year old That could be it.
That could have been it. You were just you just came out real late,
all right, third grade for you, Dan. On another occasion,
the mother accidentally gave Mary a fucked on the sleeping pills. I can't imagine.
That's you know, it's like one thing if the kid finds them and
thinks they're candy. It's another if it's whoops. Yeah. Also sleeping pills
in nineteen sixty eight. Probably what mean they look like candy, but they
don't they don't taste like candy. No. I was seeing the other day.
It was like, I have like a airborne gummies that I take every
day. They get like vitamin D and him and shit like that. I
was like, man, what if Rory just finds these and eats the whole
jar and then just like explodes like a ball of sun you know what I
mean, Just like, yeah, because there's too much vitamin D and just
light starts shooting out of him. Yeah, just the light stream to shoots
out of his eye. All becomes a sunny de commercial. Yeah. Yeah,
he becomes the mascot. Yeah. On another occasion, this one's really
fun, Betty attempted to sell her daughter Mary to a mentally unstable woman who
was unable to have children of her own. Well, that happens a lot,
and it looks pretty popular. I remember seeing a lot of photos from
the Great Depression of people selling their kids. I want to say. There
was someone on the Drink and bro Show who's like a special Forces thing.
He was talking about when he was in the Dominican Republic. There was like
women on the street trying to sell their youngest kids and ship the wrong side
of the island, the side with the issues somehow, well they both got
them, but yeah, yeah they were just like please can't. Yeah,
this is a mouth that I can't feed, right and it doesn't work yet,
so well for me, for me, good for you. Her older
sister Catherine had to travel alone across Newcastle to get Mary from the crazy person?
Which why take her back to hook her mom? Because I don't know
nowhere else to go because blood is thicker than water. Oh. One thing
I forgot to mention to about Betty's prostitution. She wasn't like an old run
of the mill prostitute, Okay, she was a dominatrix. And after bet
like, after Betty gets Mary back, she's like, well, I guess
you're sticking around. I'm going to start selling you my clients and beating you
in front of them and like letting them fuck you. Basically good god.
Yeah, all right, so I she was not even ten years old.
I no longer think she should be in jail. Yeah, this is a
totally broken fucking brain. Yeah, the shit that she does is wild from
this. I don't blame her and man, at this point, you're just
like raising someone in such a hyper violent situation. Yeah. That Like I
had like this idea for a story that was really stupid. But it was
just like some guy was in a cult and he never leaves the colt.
He just lives his life in the colt, and his job in the colt
is to make the furnace run. And he has to shovel demons into the
furnace to make to make it run. But it turns out those demons are
just puppies, So he's just shoveling adorable dogs into a fire. Just tall.
He's a really good guy otherwise, you know what I mean. He's
like, Oh, he just thinks her demons, but he thinks he's All
he knows is that they're like He's like, yeah, I gotta get these
don't trust him, just throw them in the fire. Yeah, how do
he ever know? No, if they only let him be in the furnace
room at work and no one ever sees what he does, he wouldn't know.
This is this chick all this girl knows. And that is the story
of Michael Vick. Michael, you better shovel those puppies in there if you
want to run quicker, yes, sir, but yeah. Both at home
and at school, Mary exhibited numerous signs of disturbed and unpredictable behavior. Obviously,
she's known to have frequently fought with other children, both boys and girls,
so she didn't spare anyone because it's just unbridled rage. And she was
said to have attempted to strangle or suffocate her classmates or playmates on several occasions,
which, as far as she knows, is just play. That's how
it happens, that's just how humans interact. Well more kink this not so
much. He understands the content. There is no kink here. So on
one occasion, she is known to have attempted to block the trachea of a
young girl in her class with sam what is poor sand down her throat,
hold her down and shove sand in her mouth. She had an hour glass,
She must have a funnel, probably had a sandbox. The sandbox is
actually a commonplace of her transgressions. Okay, she throws down there quite a
bit, but obviously kids maybe at the sandbox. Nothing to have sandboxes in
England. They did, apparently, do I need to google that. That's
just broken glass. It's just fucking like the shavings of like metal refinery place.
Obviously, kids really didn't want to play with her. They they got
clewed in pretty quick. Mary's only friend, however, was the thirteen year
old daughter of an next door neighbor, Norma Belle no relation by the way,
who, as we'll get to know later, wasn't exactly the best friend
for Mary to have. On May eleventh of nineteen sixty eight, Mary would
commit her first recorded assault by the police. So she was doing so eventually
stop being schoolyard shit, and they're like, dude, we gotta call the
cops. We gotta call the cops about this one. Yeah, so three
year old sorry the Bobby's yes, I guess is that what they're called?
Oh alrighty Oh, it's gotta be the those little porky pig type dudes.
Oh you have been strangling. So on the first incident, a three year
old boy was discovered wandering through the streets, dazed and bleeding. The child
later in foreign police he had been playing with Mary bell and Norma bell a
top a disused air raid shelter, just the perfect place for English children.
Oh, probably a lot of those. Gotta imagine only twenty years after and
you're not gonna throw them out during the Cold War, No, might as
well keep it. Yeah, but yeah, I just think of these kids
as like playing in industrial runoff and like yeah on top of Darrell London town.
This is like this is a suburb of Newcastle, Grimy, russ Belt,
England. Yes, this is like uh, I don't know, like
Toledo, it's England or what was that town that depressing us town? Didn't
we do that coal landslide? Did we do an episode on that? I
don't know if we did, we might have, Dann would know. No,
No we didn't. Okay, then I heard it somewhere else, but
they covered it in the Crown. Oh yeah that was in like that was
in Wales. I believe same diff more or less. But yeah. So
they had pushed him from a height of about ten feet onto his head.
Police notified the local authority of the incidents and of Mary's violent nature, but
due to their age, both girls were given a little talking to. Nice
All right, did you go to your mights or for an hour? Right
shouter or right now you're gonna learn your lesson this Tom and tell your mama
said a pretty much pretty much top nine and oh you too, since you're
in ald the maintenans that go too with your mom, I should not be
a police officer. Yeah, so that's the first recording. We don't have
like any like we only have testimonies from school. By the way, this
is not spooky. This is a fucking this is a Saw movie. Yeah,
it gets worse. Sweet what it's already so bad. I'm just being
disassociated really like I can't I like, I can't even think about what's actually
happening because I'll just start screaming. Yeah right. It's almost like a machete
where they're trying to make the villain as evil as possible so they burn as
like a bus full of kids. Yeah yeah, just like all right at
this point, I just that don't care anymore, Like, yeah, like,
okay, they're gonna do everything. The perfect example of that movie is
probably Hobo with a Shotgun, or maybe it was Hobo with the shotgun.
Yeah, it was with the shotgun. It was with the shotgun. I
knew, I know exactly. That's the scene that popped into my head when
you said kids on fire. Yeah. Actually, as soon as you said
that, I was like, huh, I think that happened in Hobo with
the Shotgun. Too. Great movie. Honestly I love Hbo with the Shotgun.
Rip Rutger Rutger Hower, is that the guy from Later Runner? Really?
Yeah, he's dead, He's been dead. I'm news to me.
Well, speaking of more dead people, we're gonna get into the killings of
Mary, the ones that she was convicted of. Okay, so on the
twenty fifth of May nineteen sixty eight, just two weeks after likely pushing the
boy off of the Ariad shelter, and you know, just another week after
trying to stuff sand down one of her classmates throats. Oh so this is
all in like a two weeks spam. This is all within the span of
three months. Okay. People weren't really paying much attention to her. This
is why this all happened. Yeah, if the prostitutes child is usually neglected.
Yeah, but in fact Mary's biggest problem is that she was not neglected
enough. Uh by certain people. There are definitely police officers and other parents
and teachers that probably could have intervened here, I will say, to Mary's
family's credit, outside of her nuclear family. Yeah, they all wanted to
take her in. They were dying too, but the mom was just like
definitely probably borderline or something like you can't have it. Yeah, like she
doesn't want her, but check it out if she really wanted to. With
every client, she could get a gift, so like a thousand Christmases for
a I don't think this is like little Joey waiting outside the bedroom. It's
always with Charlie brings a banana. Yeah, but no, it's not like
that. It's like they're all in there together. But uh yeah. So
this is also the day before her eleventh birthday, so she's probably pretty jazzed
about that or not. Probably not. Yeah, she I don't think there's
anything in life she's jazzed about. No, just killing, she's pretty jazz
No, she's jazzed about killing. Okay, fair enough, marry your life?
Is this bad? Though it's inflicting pain, it's truly the little moments
in life that bring the rays to sunshine. Much like that people hurt,
people violently abused, people violently abused, But a day where she doesn't get
like kind of hit or anything. So when I mean, I think you
just are trying to deflect it anywhere about yourself, right. So on this
day, the day before eleventh birthday, Mary strangled four year old Martin Brown
in an upstairs bedroom of an abandoned house, which there were fuck tons of
in her neighborhood because they were trying to gentrify it inind of time, So
she's believed to have committed this crime alone. Brown's body was discovered by three
your children at approximately three thirty pm. A local worker attempted to perform CPR,
but it was too late. But while the CPR was going on,
the two creepiest kids you can fucking imagine showed up, Mary and Norma.
Who Mary and her friend Norma? Okay, yeah, of course, and
they were just being a little looky lose, like trying to poke their head
in. What happened, dude? Yeah? Fuck man? Uh. Both
were quickly showed out of the house. They decided to be even fucking creepier
after that, they trotted their way over to the door of Martin's aunt,
Rita and informed her one of your sister's kids had just had an accident.
We think it's Martin, but we can't tell because there's blood all over him
Jesus, and then they promptly left the things that this is the whole episode
in that voice. Now I know, I guess I did have a quote.
I could have had, Robber. That's fine. I would like you
to do it. I will do it. Uh yeah, I will try.
Rob will do it. We'll do the entire rest of the episode in
three Slagerman's because there was no sign of violence. Yeah, your throat won't
make it to the end. No, I will be horse. Yeah,
like it's Katie, like what do you do at night? Yeah. But
so the things that Mary says throughout the rest of this episode are more haunting
than what I just talked to you about because you know why they are said,
right, So, because there's no sign of violence during the autopsy,
it's ruled as like a we don't know how this kid died. There's no
sign of violence. A fucking ten year old's not it's not it's not enough,
yeah to make it in nineteen six, like, yeah, gotta think
there's not. Like the only kind of forensics that come up in this are
yarn comparison or like red comparison. So a lot of people thought it was
like poisoning he's in an abandoned house, maybe ate something that was left there.
Yeah, or he had some foam around his mouth when he was found,
so they're like, maybe he was poison Yeah. So the next day,
on Mary's eleventh birthday, she and Norma decided to do something that kids,
you know, normally do. They broke into and vandalized a children's nursery
in a nearby suburb. The two entered the premises in there by peeling tiles
off of ust, like with their bare hands, peeling tiles off of a
slate roof and climbing down into it. So because you know, kids,
right, we've all done that, They've all been there. The following day,
staff discovered the break in and vandalism and immediately notified the police, who
also discovered four separate notes that claimed responsibility for Martin Brown's murder. Now they
didn't know that Mary and Norma did this time. One of these notes said,
I murder so that I may come back, yike. A ten year
old wrote this. Yeah, well that ten year old is living on another
planet of this. But you know what I mean, It's it's not even
reality, Like, yeah, like what is isn't there a oh I got
more notes. Hold on, okay. Another note read we murder, we
did murder Martin Brown, fuck off you bastard. Oh there's two more notes
dropping a fuck though. Uh, they get worse. There's a harder reffort
to come. Oh great. A third note simply read fuck off we murder.
Watch out fanny and faggot. Okay, yeah, and then the final
note was the most complex and weird. Sure you are mice because we murdered
Martin Brown. You better look out there. Murder's about by fanny and old
faggot, you screws. I mean, that's just children trying to thread profanity
together edge lording, Yeah, trying to get some street cred. Yeah,
they'll think it. They'll totally think it's an adult, like listen up,
you ask fucks Yeah, Oh damn they serious. Yeah. The the police
literally finding this a day after Martin Brown is found dead, dismissed it as
an innocent childhood prank. Perfect. Yeah, yes, not even worth looking.
And so you know, those children, will they rotten the the dumbest
things will Hey, I not often to pay attention to you. I would
still be asking the parents though, of the four year old. So your
four year old was in uh uh this abandoned home upstairs? Right? Oh
yeah, yes, sir, yep, yep, he went up here.
Why why why was the four year old off on his own or even with
another child in an abandoned house. This is your privilege speaking definitely. I
mean it's a sixth nine Newcastle. It was common. There was a big
campaign of sorry you grew up, rich rob. They had to start letting
people know, like, keep your kids out of these brokeass houses. We
are tearing them down and we're not like right, sure, if there's children
abandoned homes, did you play in a couple? Actually, it's not even
a lie. I don't think I ever went into an abandoned house's child.
I definitely did not. I did some abandoned like exploring in college and stuff
like that. Yeah, college, high school maybe, but like as a
fucking like eight year old or ten year old. Four year old, yeah,
no's a four year old. It was definitely middle school. So it
was like ten or eleven. Yeah, that's pushing it. It's certainly more
appropriate than four. But yeah, this four year old can't do anything.
They really can't. They just kind of don't understand danger. Folly and ship
like that. Well one does I imagine Mary? Yeah, well, ten
year old and a ten year old has a much better grasp on the wald.
A four year old, Yeah, fucking man, imagine a four year
old coming to grips with his mortality. No, I would like to not
can imagine that. Well, good because the next one's a three year old,
so get ready for that. But we're not talking. I'm not saying
dying, but like he just like becomes almost self aware he's dying. I
died like a terminal lucidity. A four year old who just comes to grips
with like, oh shit, I only have a like small amount of time
to live on this planet. I thought you were in the moment of Like
he just becomes kind of conscious, like how we I thought you were talking
like McConaughey and True Detective And he's like, you know, want to notice
what I saw? Looked at all their faces, the dead people or whatever.
He's like it welcomed it. But it's all like women that that guy
killed. But you're just saying it's like a fucking four year old. Like
a four year old, I'm saying a four year old just is like,
oh, shit, I gotta live on this planet when se years. I
wonder when they do ask about that though, Yeah, because I don't have
to figure that out. Oh am I gonna die. Oh something I realized
massive. We're not massive, but like much more prevalent than I originally thought.
Like kids suicides, Dan, why are you making this worse? What
do you mean kids suicides? Obviously kids kill themselves all the time, like
miners. It's pretty mean. Like kid kid, like fucking nine year olds.
Uh so that happened to the kid who lived behind me growing up?
You killed them? Well, well you don't know, We don't know.
But the dad never went to jail, so he was like an eight year
old nine year old's name was Eric. There's still a bench in the park
by my house, like dedicated to him. This is haunting on so many
levels this episode. Welcome to Spooky mon Yeah. They found him hanging in
his closet by a robe belt you know what I mean, like a belt
to a robe And everyone was like, I don't think he's old enough to
have figured that one out. Figured that one out. I could barely tie
my shoes, right, But they like they had no evidence that it was
the dad. It happens a lot, what especially by hanging. I think
like a lot of nine or ten year olds more than you would think hang
themselves. All right, well I know one, I met one. I
met one. Yeah, he's got some confirmation by us, so and anyway,
so after that, dad's free, all right, he's free and clear
that man. For like two years after that, I would just see his
dad at night in the window because I could see their house like my bedroom
face their house. Oh my god, they were behind us in my betterface
their house. And you would just see his dad up at like midnight playing
the guitar alone in his room. I thought, you're gonna be like,
it's like a Boo Radley situation. That kind of his dad was creepy.
His dad, his dad, it was weird. His dad would always be
like, I'm really good at knots. Fuck off. No, I wouldn't
do that, of course. And then the guy people who lived there,
how's wight with Kurts? Because the people who lived out there after that,
what was he playing on the guitar? I couldn't hear. I just you
just always had was playing Clapton. He probably he probably was, man,
that's Okay, we got to get back to this child murderer and not let's
go back to child suicide. Say real quick, the people who moved in
after that, the guy was a pedophile. So two days after she killed
Martin Brown, shortly before the funeral of Martin Brown in a game of Chicken,
both of the Freak Girls, Norman and Mary, went to Martin's house
and asked his mother June, to see Martin. When June Brown replied they
couldn't see her son because he was, you know, dead, Mary replied,
Oh, I knew he's dead. I want to see him in the
coffin. I you know, I don't even care because it's not her fault.
It's okay, it's it's a little bit people that also get abused that
don't do this. I understand. It's like a dice roll. I understand,
but you still have she still had to have so many levers pulled it
all to get to that. Yeah, Like I it's like at this point,
I mean, poork, awful, poor kid, But like what,
I don't know, She's not She's not a human being right now, No,
she's she's uh. Psychologists would call her emotional level primitive at best.
Yeah. Yeah, almost feral in a way, but like we'll get it.
Going back to a story Rob was talking about earlier, he would prefer
that all the children that are abused be thrown in the furnace. Yeah,
that's that's what Rob said. It wasn't dogs, it was babies. That's
the twist at the end. That's the that's the Oh my god, they're
not puppies. I think there's one twist. And then then what you find
out is that it's actually another cult member being like, oh no, they're
puppies. But then the cops come in and they just that Colemark causes the
puppies. Yeah, calls baby's puppies. There's just orphans in maybe a costume
at the Orphans of All Ages. There's like sixty year old orphans in there.
Well yeah, anyway, Just two months later after the whole Martin thing,
on the afternoon of July thirty first, nineteen sixty eight, a three
year old boy named Brian Howe was last seen by his parents in the street
outside his house. He was playing with one of his siblings, the family
dog, and who else but the two worst children you can possibly imagine seeing
your kids play with Mary and Norma. The dogs there are protect him.
The dog did not hold up his end of the bar when he did not
return home. Later that afternoon, in the family and some neighbors began a
search party without much success, but at eleven to ten pm, a search
partly a search party, discovered Brian's body between two large concrete blocks upon the
Tin Lizzie A nearby rail line. The coroner would conclude that Brian had died
of strangulation. This next part's from the coroner's report. So skip ahead thirty
seconds if you don't tiny little hands Yep, they're little, tiny ten year
old hands. Yeah, I just skip ahead. This is uh, this
is relevant till you give up night last night. No, this is when
I found out that the story I wrote before was fake. Yeah. So
Jake had a whole other episode that he wrote, and then he was like,
what you can tell it. I researched it and I got like three
very valid seeming sources about it, and then I was like, oh,
I want one more for just any other funny bits I can find. Yep.
And it was an article written like three years ago, just completely debunking
the story. None of it's true. So you were pissed off and you're
like, I need to give the fucking listeners the worst story imaginable. Well,
this is about the horrors of humanity. It is a spooky month after
so in a way you feel like these toddlers, like that story did to
your night, what Mary did to these toddlers, and now you're doing to
us, And listen, that's what that first episode did to you. Okay,
I'm gonna cut out a lot of the corner report. I'm just gonna
give you one. No. Numerous puncture wounds were found inflicted, and a
crude attempt had been made to carve a letter in Brian's stomach, the letter
m okay sure, yeah, but there was also just enough force to realize
that this corner was a little wiser. He's like around his neck, it's
like tiny fingerprints. Yeah, I think a kid did this. Good corner.
This Also, they also found one other thing, Graham maroon fibers on
Brian's body that did not match any of the family's clothing. Okay, so
this is the only level of forensics they're doing. This sparked a large scale
manhunt for whoever was killing the children. Over one hundred detectives were assigned to
the investigation, and more than twelve hundred children in like the surrounding area had
been questioned. Of those, of course, were Mary and Norma. And
boy did Mary fucking why about it? Like non stop fucking lying, changing
story. It's so she was bad at lying, very okay, very bad.
You were trying to say she was like man and she was such a
psychopath that she could like she's because I mean, like that's what like really
good psychopathic people are, just like she's good for ten, she's good for
ten. Fair enough say that she's not a sociopath. She's a psycho.
She is a she is a true psychopath. Okay, Like she said she
remembered seeing another eight year old local boy playing with Brian on the afternoon,
and she said she had also seen him hitting the child and carrying scissors.
Scissors were an important part of the crime scene. They found scissors carving.
Yeah. Mary then said, quote Mary, Oh, I saw him trying
to cut a cat's tail off with the scissors, like just a totally made
up thing, right, I mean that's what a kid would say. Yeah,
I saw them, and he was hitting him and he was laughing when
he was hitting him, and he was like, really mean because I saw
him trying to cut this cat's tail off too with scissors. He had scissors,
by the way, so if there was anything like carved into the boy
or something like, he was probably from those scissors or he did something.
And then also I saw him step on a frog and laugh and then he
hit his mom and he uh said, he said, yeah, he loves
the devil, and yeah, like he's strings. It's at the worst storytelling
every right, kids are like this is of course she's a terrible liar.
She's ten kids are bad and each other, there's himself. You know,
they overseell it. Yeah, and they're just bad at just stringing thoughts together.
I remember the type of coherent so many lines I told my parents was
like maybe on ten. Deep down, I just never really got past the
age of ten. Well, you're not a good liar. No, I
can barely string sentences together. Oh yeah, even when he's saw on the
truth. But yeah, so this amazingly bullshit story was almost immediately snuffed out
by the detective because he looked into the whereabouts of the kids she accused.
Yeah, he was verifiably at an airport in another city. Perfect. Yeah,
not even just like a place, no, Like multiple people were like,
ro I saw that kid, Yeah, he was at an airport.
And also no one else outside of police knew about the scissors. Perfect,
and Mary brought it up in the story. So yeah, yeah. A
few days after that, how do you interrogate a ten year old gently?
No, and it is gently, bro you break them not too, I
swear this isn't a callback. But you let them hang themselves, all right,
all right, good one, that's good. I hate that. I
laughed at that. A few days later, Norma, Mary's friend ratted her
out. She told the police Mary had confessed to her she'd enjoyed strangling the
children, before describing how she had inflicted the scourmarks to his stomach. A
drawing Norma made of the wounds inflicted to the boy's stomach precisely mashed those described
by the coroner. Yeah, but at first, Norma said she wasn't there.
Yeah, that makes sense for her to be like, you know it
there though, yeah there man. After this, Mary Bell was visited at
her home once again by the police. When confronted with the discrepancies in her
previous statement, she told detectives, you're trying to brainwash me. Oh,
get a solicitor to get me out of this one. What a solicitor?
What a lawyer? A lawyer like, I'm gonna get my lawyer. Yeah,
good luck with whatever fucking public defenders taking your case. You're a hooker's
daughter, yes, Johnny Cochran's not walking through that door. Not a good
escort either, No, no, no, that's why I said hook her.
Yeah. So is there a threshold dollar amount that you have to make
in order to be considered an escort? There should be to be six figures?
I think six yeah, Well, like per session is a couple of
grand Yeah, if there's not, if there is not a comma in your
you're a hooker, sex works? Really four figs escort? Yeah, I
gotta imagine it's locale too, like location I mean, yeah, I guess,
but in that case it would sure, yeah, it would be monetarily
if you're if you're a prostitute in you know, it's like, are you
Mississippi somewhere? Well, no, I'm saying, are you in Caesar's or
are you on the strip? Oh yeah yeah yeah. But also you know,
the dollar doesn't go as far as it used to in the middle of
the country. That's true. A lot of ladies getting upgraded to escort just
because of inflation, So we might have to move the fucking goalpost. Yeah,
you move it with obviously with with with the inflation, with the dollar.
Yeah. Can you imagine like an inflation argument happening in a car by
a John and a prostitute. It probably has. I'm almost positive in the
Reagan years. Yeah, blast and Coke, the the interest rates are through
the roof. Yeah, you're killing me, Babs, real quick. Before
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the world. The second boy killed, Brian, was buried in a local
cemetery a few days later, and the ceremony was attended by like two hundred
people. But according to the detective who had planned to arrest both these girls
later that day, Mary Bell stood outside the house of the boy as the
child's coffin was brought from the home and what sounds like a fucking goblin move.
She that is a goblin move. No, it's worse. Oh perfect.
When the boy's coffin like broke the threshold of the house, she hunched
over, rubbed her hands together and smiled like she was about to get a
good meal. Yeah that's a literal goblin move. He basically said in an
interview, I knew I had to get her at that point. She's gonna
do it again, yeah, immediately. Yeah. So both girls were formally
charged with the murder at eight pm that evening. In response to this charge,
while being arrested Mary replied that's all right by me, and Norma burst
into tears, simply proclaiming, I never I never was there. I'll get
you back for this, Mary, that's funny. So there's a little bit
of a yeah back and forth here, and I have a theory about Norma
that I'll get too later. Uh, just a quick note on the psychological
evaluation. Shortly after their arrest, both girls underwent them. The result of
these tests revealed Norma was intellectually delayed in a submissive character by trait. So
they thought she was actually intellectually like eight years old. Okay, so she
was severely handicapped compared to her eight thirteen to eight. What do you mean,
like so like actually like mentally handicapped, not just like like bad education
and no, she was like developmentally slow okay, yeah, like and her
because of that, she was incredibly submissive. So yeah, poor, it's
beyond poverty. It's like that's what I was asking, Yeah, like is
it just a but I mean I'm sure that didn't help by a stretch.
I'm sure. Well, also, what it's nineteen sixty eight, they live
in some shitty part of England. Yeah, probably just like breathing in every
chemical possible. They live like inside of a coal plant pretty much. Yeah,
drinking the run off. That her uncles have been stabbed countless times.
The four psychiatrists who examined Mary concluded that, although not suffering from any mental
disorder or disability, she suffered from a psychopathic personality disorder. Yeah. Of
her personality traits, they said that were the most troubling was her cunning.
When they were evaluating her, she realized what was going on pretty quick and
was trying to like game it okay. They also said that she had severe
tendencies of violence and had saydomsochistic tendencies and enjoyed inflicting pain and possibly getting pain
as well. Would love to know what she's doing these days. You will
never know. Actually, and she changed name. I assume there's a whole
thing about that. How do they figure figure out? All? Like they're
just like, all right, Mary, now we're done with this section.
I want to go have a smoke and we're gonna leave this bunny in here
with you. It's just just make sure the rabbit's all right. We'll be
back in half an hour, all right. We can leave you with a
lunch, including this knife and fork, and then the bunny will just be
playing. Yeah, so see you in a half an hour. And we're
we're still doing renovations on the the unit. Here here's a hammer, yeah
yeah, you want to hammer it now? And his hammer and these nails
here it looks like one of the construction workers fashioned a little crucifix or John's
quite the Anglican. So nails, hammer, bunny sized crucifix, bunny and
then your fork and you also got your little helper in case you need help
with that construction. So anyway I go to have a smoke, you just
you know, seeing a bit. It wouldn't surprise me with the level of
investigation that happened if the psychological evaluators had So that's what actually every psychological value
should be is just leave him with a bunny for a while. Do they
pet it or do they you know, yeah, do they lenny it?
Today? Uh, I was watching the kids because you didn't have work,
and Courtney still work. At what point Rory was like walking up to Finn
and was like clearly about to do something fucked up, and I go like,
I just go like he was like rearing back to do something I don't
know what, like flip him over or something shit. And I'm like,
I saw him mile away. So Rory, Rory, and he looks up
at me, and I go gentle and he just looks at me and goes
to the baby's head and pats some key's dog. Just goes, oh,
no, yeah, your kid's a psychopath. Have you left him alone with
a bunny yet? No? God, I gotta go. Yes, that's
the stress test. That's Patreon episode with the bunny. And then we leave,
and we leave the cameras on see what happens. It's like, okay,
buddy, we gotta go. We gotta leave for it. We gotta
go outside to have a smoke. Yeah, we're smoking out there. Don't
come out there, just you, the shotgun and the buddy. Oh fuck,
that's right now. One of the testimonies. I'm not gonna get into
the entire trial here, but one of the testimonies from Norma Jean about the
event. She later did confess to being at the scene of the murder,
so her story changed a lot. But one of the things that Mary said
to her when she was strangling Brian, the three year old by the thin
Lizzie. The rail line was, oh, I married, my hands are
getting thick. Take over Jesus, She's like, my hand's hurt. I'm
strangling. Yeah, yeah, so hard that line just my hands are getting
thick? Is that? I guess I was slang for that back then.
I guess I don't know, man, but that just that sent chills down
my spine. That the girl wasn't like I should stop, It was tap
in my hands hurt. Wait did she tap in? According to the court,
No, okay, but imagine if she started building up callouses from the
amount of guilty christ uh. Yeah. They also found that the threads that
were found were on Brian Rolsovolna Martin brownwn. You know, I have to
imagine though that testimony is all nice and stuff or whatever, but like any
decent defense lawyer should be able to get the testimony of a child, let
alone a developmentally delayed child tossed out the fucking window that only one that's changed
their story so many times. That's where you'd be right, because she didn't
have a good lawyer. Yeah. They were both being tried by the way
Norma and me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The trial lasted nine days
and included a six hour opening statement from the prosecution, which is fucking bananas.
I gotta feel like six hours six hours of point I'm on the jury
and I'm like, I don't care who they are. Not guilty, you
asshole, just not guilty. Fuck you six hours. Uh. Norma stayed
consistent with her story because she had confessed to being there before the trial began.
Yeah, and Mary would just blame Norma the whole time, basically saying
she did it. The jury rendered their verdict in three hours, so pretty
quick turn around. There, sorter than the fucking opening statement. It was
shorter than the opening. Mary Bell was convicted of the manslaughter of both boys
and not the murder on grounds of diminished responsibility. By that honestly, even
without the abuse, I think it's because it's a fucking child, right,
But yeah, that's the abuse in there. I mean. Norma Bell was
acquitted of all charges because she displayed remorse and gave eyewitness testimony. She whiled
over up Mary, she rolled snitch. You want to know the craziest part
what when hearing the jury's verdict, obviously, Mary burst into tears because she
realized what was happening. Yeah, you know what Norma did. What she
hopped up and clapped in excitement. Yeah, it makes sense. I mean
I get it. I guess she's like also, okay, I think though,
but maybe maybe you're not picturing this right. I think at the time
that was like a normal reaction to be like, oh yeah, jail.
Yeah yeah, probably, maybe I'm overthinking it. I just thought it was
a bit menacing. No, I think it's I think it's like you you've
seen old movies right there? Oh yeah, yeah, daddy, please the
toy, the toy, Like, yes, I guess you're right. Yeah,
okay, that's what she was doing. Mary pretty much the two girls
in a Willy Wonka lost in her mind when Augustus Sloop just gets fucking sucked
up that tube. Yeah, they're like, oh one less Daddy, more
for me. Uh yeah. Mary was sentenced to a sentence at her Majesty's
pleasure, which means indefinite, definite sentence. So you got to stay in
until we decide whether or not we're not fucking crazy anymore. Yeah. Yeah.
When in prison. She's scaped one time for a little bit when she
was in her later teenage years. I think she's around sixteen or seventeen,
which makes sense. She she would be re caught and serve the remainder of
her sentence until she was released at the age of twenty three. Okay,
so she put her hair down the tower, like what happened? I don't
know. I don't think she were puzzled. I don't think you can climb
your own hair. I don't think. Well, the tinsel strength of hair
is actually insane. No. Actually, if you grow your hair long enough
and then you tie it up to something and you got it all and just
maybe yeah, yeah, I imagine every like child prison in England is a
tower. It's all towers, Yes, it's gotta be. But yeah,
her and a couple other kids broke out and they just like went and partied
because they were obviously bored, right yeah yeah, but uh. When she
was released, she was granted a right of anonymity to allow her to live
a normal life, and eventually she had a daughter. We only know this
because people discovered who she was. The daughter was granted anonymity until she was
eighteen, then they found out who she was again, so both her and
her daughter have a lifetime of guaranteed anonymity. They've had to be like rescued
out of situations people trying to kill Mary for something that happened. She wait,
wait, what is her name? Mary Bell b e L L b
e L. Yeah, there's been interviews with her with like you know,
people have done an interview with her as she stayed, like you know,
correspondence and stuff. Right, she did a whole thing like so she uh
she basically I guess too after a point like really did express remorse and like
you know, she did a whole kind of breakdown the reason we know about
the sexual abuse in the way she was. She she gave like a whole
rundown of what her life was like. Yeah, she read a book.
There was a not like a full memoir, I don't think, but like
there was a at least like an article or some sort of like what would
you call it, like a not a journal, but like some sort of
paper written by professionals about the whole situation. She is the youngest person to
ever be sentenced with that specific conviction and the youngest ever received that that that
like indefinite sense in British history that's never been matched to this day and as
of today, her whereabouts are still unknown. I mean, I'm seeing pictures
of her. I'm seeing a photo from nineteen eighty two, which is not
that one's she's not that old, and she looks awful. I mean,
it's a rough life, bro, I'm seeing a different one. Maybe this
is her daughter. It could be her daughter, but yeah, I mean,
she'd been found out a couple times and all that. But I mean,
really, the thing that blew my mind in this one was just obviously
the abject horror of all of it. But she is a creepy kid.
Oh yeah. The picture of her as a child is fucking terrifying. And
I would think this if I didn't know anything. I just knew right now,
like as a baby, just as a ten year old. Yeah,
that's not that bad. Have you seen the photo of her as a toddler?
I think, let's at let's slang it, or maybe this is one
of the kids she killed. But turn it. The kid looks awful.
Oh that's one of the kids she killed. Yeah, the kid looks like
he's like just a small, small human who's probably like forty works works sometime
in the minds. I'm telling you they all lived inside of a coal factor.
Yeah, dude. I mean, this was the sixties, It was
not that long ago. Dude, bro, it was not good. It
does look like a little person. I wouldn't even blame her for killing that
okid fucking anyway, sorry, uh yeah, So I think the craziest thing
to me is like the police knew after the first assault that she had violent
tendencies because yeah, other parents told the police after Well, yeah, forgot
about that. She's already on the fucking radar. She's already in the system.
She's very on the radar in that neighborhood. And like multiple parents had
complained about the sandbox thing that that's one of the details I left out.
The trichia thing. That was just the first time it ever got like down
a kid's throat, but she was constantly trying to try another time. Norman
was telling a story about when they first met. Mary like looked at her
and goes, what would happen if you wrapped your hands hauled around someone's neck
like this and just grabbed the child while they were standing there. Perfect,
And then she's said, oh, and then Norm was like, and then
they turned purple and she moved to the next child, and like the kids
just stood there and like watched, yes, because they were like they couldn't
really comprehend it. You should have taught these kids jiu jitsu, but it's
weird. The proper way to like choke someone out and then they'll be perfectly
fine. They don't die. You know, you need to know long enough,
how long you need to choke the person out before they pass out,
But don't die pretty much. Just get these kids to roll. You got
to think there was like at least one or two parents is like, hey
have you checked them Mary? Yeah? Like have you looked up Mary Bell?
Yet? Oh? Who what? Someone's killing these kids? They're straining
another kid. I have a person for you to look into. There's some
shining twins girls that around here with looks like scissors, and yeah, maybe
them, But yeah, I get that. You know she didn't get life
because she was a child, right, she was ten, But why does
she get protective services when she comes out of prey because people tried to fucking
kill her. That's kind of on her. Who cares? I'm sorry you
have to deal with that. I mean, fair enough, there's different arguments
for that. Fair say you're wrong. Yeah, I'm not going to argue
that you're wrong. I'm not going I'm not going to say that they were
wrong, but I think you have a point. My tax dollar fair fair.
Yeah, so that's it for that story. Who's today's hitler? Mary
Bell? Mary Bell is today? No, I don't know her. Who's
worse her mom or dad? Her mom? It's her mom. Her mom's
hitler. Actually, her mom is definitely hitler. Yeah, but would you
learn nothing good? I didn't learn anything. I learned that I would.
I just I mean, I learned that I was really good at being disassociative
on the fly. Yeah. Good job, man, good job. Way
to tune it out. Like my wife is texting me pictures of the kids
in the bath. You're so a kid. The age of your children was
fucking strangled to death by a ten year old. Yeah, but we brought
up some good memories for you. True you did. Yeah, my lovely
neighbors. Yeah, it got darker in the like memories for you guys.
Yeah that happened. That's a real thing. Dan though out of a window.
Rob neighbor had a Rob's neighbor behind his house was one the second two
I fought on the second floor. Oh did you really damn dude, you
good job. He's still here kicking it. I mean, the kid about
hula behind me was definitely murdered. I'm going to murder all the way.
Okay, could you get caught for slander on that? I guess he didn't
say his name? Uh not really, you'd have to look it up and
blah blah blah. Yeah. Anyway, Yeah, that's it first show.
Hope you enjoyed it, y'all. Again, check out our Patreon. It's
not normally that graphic, but it is Horror Month, so yeah, check
out our patreons patreon dot com. Slash softcore history. Usually when we talk
about kids dying, we do it in a more digestible way. We'll be
like, and then you know, the army sacked the city and killed twenty
thousand kids, which is fine to say, But when you talk about killing
like two kids in the detail, yeah, then you're they're no longer statistic
children is a tragedy. Twenty thousand is a statistic sacking. Yeah, yeah,
everyone knows that. Well you know it, and enough time has passed.
I think that's the only thing that allowed me to really even like not
this I'm saying when we talk about like beag Dad gets sacked by the mongols.
Yeah, whatever, we can talk. Well, it's funny you say
that. Patreon dot COM's last soft coore history. Yeah, check it out,
leave us a review, and check us out on YouTube. Yeah we
need some more views. We have a great set deck. Dan did a
good job here. We kind of want to just leave it like this because
yeah, maybe not this, maybe some bones. We'll keep the bone.
Can we keep uh? Because history is built on a letter of bones.
Can we keep Skelly? We keep Skelly? Cool? All right? For
Rob Fox and danidjes A. I'm Jake Goldman. He just got saw served